The Hidden Power of Sensitive People & The Intriguing Story of Recorded Sound - SYSK Choice

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Speaker 3 Today, on something you should know, you won't believe how many dogs get stolen every year. Then, people are often told they're too sensitive, as if it's an insult.

Speaker 4 Sensitive people, I think, they get a bad rap. Some signs that you're a sensitive person are you feel strong emotions.
They might cry more easily, but they might laugh more easily too.

Speaker 4 Sensitive people are some of the most resilient people that I've met.

Speaker 3 Also, something to be aware of if you still use paper checks and the fascinating history of recorded sound, including how disc-shaped records, 78s, LPs and 45s, changed everything.

Speaker 5 A disc-shaped record, they could make lots of copies from a single recording. Whereas these first cylindrical records that were taking off, every recording was an original.

Speaker 5 To sell another copy, they had to record it again.

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Speaker 3 Something you should know, fascinating intel, the world's top experts, and practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers.

Speaker 3 Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know.

Speaker 3 I want to start today with a statistic that surprised me, and I think it'll surprise you, that 2 million dogs are stolen every year, and that dog theft and pet theft in general, cats and dogs, is on the rise.

Speaker 3 And you might ask yourself, well, why is that? Well, dogs and puppies are most often stolen for resale, but sometimes they're held for ransom.

Speaker 3 As you know, people really cherish their pets today more than ever, and many of them will pay top dollar to get their dog back.

Speaker 3 If you do own a dog, keep your eye on your dog, even if it's not a purebred, and even if it's in a secure yard, it's a bad idea to take your dog along on errands with you if you'll be leaving the dog in the car or tying him up outside the shop while you're inside, even for a minute.

Speaker 3 The fact is that returning a stolen computer or television to the rightful owner is more likely than locating a lost or stolen dog. And the problem is getting worse.

Speaker 3 And that is something you should know.

Speaker 3 The phrase, you're so sensitive, is typically not a compliment. If you or your child are labeled sensitive, it's as if it's a flaw.

Speaker 3 Sensitive people are often left feeling inferior when they hear, oh, you're so sensitive or toughen up. And yet a large percentage of the population falls into the category of sensitive.

Speaker 3 More people than you think.

Speaker 3 Someone who believes being sensitive is not only not a character flaw, it's instead a trait to celebrate and be proud of, is Jen Graniman, an internationally recognized authority on highly sensitive people and introverts.

Speaker 3 She is an educator, a journalist, and has been featured in the New York Times, BBC, Washington Post, Glamour Magazine, and she blogs for Psychology Today.

Speaker 3 She's also author of a book called Sensitive, The Hidden Power of the Highly Sensitive Person in a Loud, Fast, Too Much World.

Speaker 3 Hi, Jen. Welcome to Something You Should Know.

Speaker 4 Hi, Mike. It's good to be here.

Speaker 3 So, first of all,

Speaker 3 what is a sensitive person? Because

Speaker 3 when you hear that word, when you hear that someone described as a sensitive person, it's almost like a fault.

Speaker 3 Like, oh, they're so, oh, they're so sensitive, you know, that there's something wrong with them.

Speaker 4 I hear that all the time. A lot of people don't want to be called sensitive.
It sounds like an insult. But when I'm talking about sensitivity, I'm talking about a personality trait.

Speaker 4 There are some people who are born more sensitive than everyone else. It's about 30% of the population.
These are the highly sensitive people.

Speaker 4 And to be sensitive simply means your body and mind respond more to the world around you. You respond more to heartbreak, pain, and loss, but you also respond more to beauty, new new ideas, and joy.

Speaker 3 So what are the characteristics, the

Speaker 3 qualifications? What does it mean to be a sensitive person?

Speaker 4 So you can't go to a doctor and get a diagnosis for being a sensitive person. It's not a disorder.
And sensitive people are sensitive because, well, probably because they're born that way.

Speaker 4 Also, their upbringing and their experiences, their early childhood experiences can shape them. Some signs that you're a sensitive person are you might take more time to respond to a question.

Speaker 4 Your mind goes deep and really chews on answers and analyzes things. Your mind processes things deeply.

Speaker 4 A lot of times this deep processing happens unconsciously so you don't even realize you're doing it. If you're a sensitive person you feel strong emotions.

Speaker 4 You might feel sadness more intensely or joy more intensely. Sensitive people, yes,

Speaker 4 they might cry more easily, but they might laugh more easily too. Sensitive people also tend to feel drained in busy or loud environments.

Speaker 4 So a typical day in the classroom or at the office can really make them feel fatigued.

Speaker 4 Not because, you know, anything in particular happened that day, but just all the noise and activity and the people and the emotions around them. It can be a lot for a sensitive person to take in.

Speaker 4 The sensitive mind is always taking in lots of information and processing it very deeply. And that can lead to some incredible strengths, but as you can imagine, it can also make life more tiring.

Speaker 3 Are sensitive people typically introverts and are introverts typically sensitive people?

Speaker 4 Oh, that's a good question. A lot of times sensitive people and introverts are confused for one another, but sensitivity and introversion, they're not the same thing.

Speaker 4 But sensitive people do tend to be introverts. There's some research out there that says that about 70% of sensitive people are introverts.
So that means about 30% are extroverts.

Speaker 4 So you can be a sensitive person who loves solitude and quiet and just enjoys the company of a few close friends.

Speaker 4 Or you can be a sensitive person who is outgoing and gregarious and has a large social network.

Speaker 4 But I like to say whether you're a sensitive introvert or a sensitive extrovert, you're still going to need downtime because your body and mind process information so deeply.

Speaker 3 Would you imagine, do you think that most people who fit the bill for highly sensitive

Speaker 3 know it?

Speaker 4 Not everybody knows that term, but a lot of times I find that when I start to talk about sensitivity, people will pipe up and say, oh my gosh, you're describing me. That's me.

Speaker 4 They might not have known that word before, but when they hear it, it makes sense to them. So if you're a sensitive person,

Speaker 4 you probably know. Maybe you've been called too sensitive your whole life.
Maybe people have called you shy or anxious, or they say you're overreacting, or you're too emotional, or whatever.

Speaker 4 So if you're a sensitive person, yet there's probably part of you that knows.

Speaker 3 Something I find pretty interesting is, you know, there's certain things you don't say to people, right? You don't say,

Speaker 3 gosh, you're fat, or gee, you're ugly. I mean, you don't say those things, but people are very willing to say, you're too sensitive to someone in a derogatory way, in an insulting way, which,

Speaker 3 you know, is kind of insensitive and you're saying it to a sensitive person.

Speaker 4 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I think a lot of people say that thinking it will suddenly help the sensitive person.

Speaker 4 Like, oh my gosh, if I just tell this person they're overreacting or or being too sensitive, it will snap them out of it or, you know, change them in some way.

Speaker 4 But, you know, just like no one in the history of

Speaker 4 no, no one who's ever been wound up, if they've been told to calm down, you know, that doesn't work. So telling someone they're sensitive isn't going to suddenly toughen them up.

Speaker 4 And in fact, it will probably just make them feel bad.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 maybe you said this, but is there a sense as to to like what percentage of the population are either self-identify or we can say because of a survey that this percentage of the population is sensitive?

Speaker 4 Sensitivity is a spectrum. Everybody falls somewhere on it.
Everybody is sensitive to some degree and in some ways. But highly sensitive people make up about 30% of the population.

Speaker 4 Then there's a chunk of people in the middle who we could call average or medium sensitive, and that's about 40% of the population.

Speaker 4 And then research shows that on that other end of the spectrum, you know, maybe the less sensitive people

Speaker 4 or maybe you want to call them insensitive, that's about 30% of the population.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 what is an insensitive person? I mean, I guess we've all come across them, but

Speaker 3 doesn't it seem like a lot of this is also situational?

Speaker 3 Like you could be sensitive about some things and in some situations and with some people, but at work, you might be a tough SOB and nobody would ever know that you're sensitive elsewhere.

Speaker 4 Yeah, absolutely. I think it is sometimes, you know, our sensitivity changes depending on the circumstances.
But, you know, sensitive people, I think they get a bad rap.

Speaker 4 Being a highly sensitive person doesn't mean that you can't be a tough SOB at work, right?

Speaker 4 Sensitive people are some of the most resilient people that I've met.

Speaker 4 And, you know, when we talk about someone being insensitive, I think what I'm really saying there is it's just someone who is less aware of their surroundings and less tuned in.

Speaker 4 Maybe they can put up with more stimulation, you know, more noise, more lights, more activity.

Speaker 4 And it just doesn't drain or fatigue them as much, but they're also not noticing as much. They're also not taking in as much from their environment.

Speaker 3 My sense is that if you were to ask people in that highly sensitive group, do you wish you were less sensitive? Most people would say yes.

Speaker 4 You know, I hear that a lot. And

Speaker 4 I think some people would say yes. In some ways, they wish they were less sensitive because there are challenges to being a sensitive person.

Speaker 4 But at the same time, if you were to be less sensitive, then you lose your superpowers.

Speaker 4 you'd lose your empathy your creativity not that people who aren't highly sensitive can't have empathy or can't be creative too but highly sensitive people tend to have a lot of empathy and their brains make a lot of connections so they're able to be more creative and if you're a sensitive person you tend to be more aware of your environment.

Speaker 4 You have a high sensory intelligence. You tend to think deeply about things.
You tend to come up with new and creative ideas.

Speaker 4 You tend to be a strong leader because people are drawn to you because of your empathy and compassion.

Speaker 4 So, sure, if you took your sensitivity away, you might remove some of those challenges, but you'd also remove your gifts.

Speaker 3 I've been called highly sensitive my whole life. I wish I were further down the scale the other way because that empathy gets in the way.

Speaker 3 It can break your heart.

Speaker 3 It can break your heart.

Speaker 3 You take on other people's pain and it can be debilitating.

Speaker 4 Absolutely. Yes.
I think that's one of the hardest things about being a sensitive person. When you have a lot of empathy, you feel other people's pain a lot.

Speaker 4 You feel pain from people that you barely know, or maybe you feel an animal's pain. And that's hard.
That's hard to go through life feeling that much pain, right?

Speaker 4 Because you have your own pain and then you feel other people's pain too.

Speaker 4 there are things sensitive people can do though we we can do things to lessen that pain of empathy one thing i like to coach sensitive people to do is to move from empathy to compassion because compassion is an emotion that doesn't hurt it puts the focus on the other person and it thinks of ways to reach out and help So give me an example of moving from empathy to compassion.

Speaker 4 If you're in empathy, you're feeling the pain of another person. And really, you're putting the focus on yourself because you're thinking about the burden that you're taking on.

Speaker 4 I know it sounds counterintuitive, right, to think about empathy as being self-focused.

Speaker 4 But when we're swallowed up by the pain of another person, a lot of times that means we're focusing on ourselves and not on the person who is suffering. It means we can't reach out and help them.

Speaker 4 When we move to compassion, we put the focus on the other person and we think about what do they need in this moment? What can I do to alleviate their pain?

Speaker 4 Instead of getting swallowed up by these difficult feelings, what can I do to help and support them? So it's really just a mindset shift. It's where we place our attention.

Speaker 3 I'm speaking with Jen Graniman. She's a recognized authority on highly sensitive people and she is author of the book, Sensitive.

Speaker 3 The hidden power of the highly sensitive person in a loud, fast, too much world.

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Speaker 3 So, Jen, there's a sense, I think, a belief that the slings and arrows of life hurt more if you're a sensitive person than if you're not. Would you say that's a fair statement?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think that's fair. Sensitive people feel strong emotions.

Speaker 4 And like I said, they feel joy and happiness and peace and love in a strong way, but they also feel the difficult things of life in a strong way too, the loss, the grief, the heartache.

Speaker 4 It's all there if you're a sensitive person.

Speaker 3 And does that mitigate the sensitivity that, you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger kind of theory? Or it's just you just take it harder than everybody else. So live with it?

Speaker 4 Great question.

Speaker 4 I think sensitive people

Speaker 4 are prone to taking it harder, but I don't think they have to just live with it. I think they can learn to regulate their emotions, put good boundaries in place.

Speaker 4 and live a happy life and not get swallowed up in their emotions. There are things they can do to not be so overwhelmed with those negative feelings in life.

Speaker 3 Well, what you just said that they can live a happy life implies that they're not living a happy life.

Speaker 3 Do you think that highly sensitive people tend to be depressed and not so happy because they're taking on the world's struggles?

Speaker 4 I think some people who are sensitive are really thriving in life, but yeah, I think some sensitive people are not. Sensitive people do tend to be more prone to anxiety and depression than others.
So,

Speaker 4 yeah, you

Speaker 4 I'm not saying that sensitive people aren't happy, but yeah, there, there are definitely some difficulties and challenges that we face.

Speaker 3 And so, what's the difference between a highly sensitive person who's thriving and happy and one who, you know,

Speaker 3 lives fearfully because the world seems to be out to get them.

Speaker 4 Right. So, I think if you're a sensitive person, what what you need to thrive is, well, first of all, you need to recognize your sensitivity.

Speaker 4 You need to understand that this is the way you're wired and that life needs to look a little bit different for you.

Speaker 4 Now, you know, you may not need to make drastic changes to your life, but I think little changes go a long way for sensitive people. So maybe that means giving yourself extra breaks or more downtime.

Speaker 4 Maybe that means putting those healthy boundaries in place.

Speaker 4 Maybe that means stepping away from a situation that that is overstimulating or overwhelming, taking time to regroup, and then coming back to have that conversation.

Speaker 4 So I think little things that sensitive people can do can really go a long way to helping them thrive.

Speaker 3 What about reframing your sensitivity? My sense is that because I talk to other sensitive people that

Speaker 3 they don't wear it as a badge of honor, that it's it's they don't look at it as what a plus that I I am this way. They tend to look at it as a negative, as something to cope with, a condition almost.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 how do you reframe that to be,

Speaker 3 not necessarily proud of it, but at least like make peace with it?

Speaker 4 I think it's something we can be proud of. I think you should see it as a good thing.

Speaker 4 I think there have been a lot of messages in our society and in our families and culture that have told us that we have to be embarrassed about our sensitivity.

Speaker 4 But I do honestly think it's something you can feel proud of.

Speaker 4 One thing I like to tell sensitive people to do to help them reframe their sensitivity as a good thing is just start making a list of all the times throughout your day, today, tomorrow, when your sensitivity was a gift and an advantage.

Speaker 4 Maybe you noticed something at work that other people didn't notice and you were able to help your teammates or your company.

Speaker 4 Or maybe you were able to be a listening ear for someone in your family or a friend who really needed your empathy and your support.

Speaker 4 Maybe your sensitivity gave you the self-awareness today to realize, hey, I need a break. I need to just go do something fun to have some self-care or some me time, some downtime.

Speaker 4 Or maybe your sensitivity allowed you to think about a problem longer and come up with a solution that other people couldn't.

Speaker 3 I imagine that it really, it's a matter of focus to look, you know, to try to notice the good things.

Speaker 3 I often kind of think of people who are less sensitive who are not that sensitive, as kind of skimming across life like a rock across the water.

Speaker 3 And sensitive people kind of get stuck on that first skip. They sink and they, that it's, it,

Speaker 3 life is more effortful, that it's not as easy as skimming across the water. Right.
And in that way, it's a bit of a curse. I mean, it is a bit of a curse because it, it's, life is harder.

Speaker 4 It can be harder. You're right.
I think that less sensitive people do skim along the surface a little more.

Speaker 4 But I think it's the ability of the sensitive person to go deeply that has given us some of the greatest art and inventions and brilliance of all time.

Speaker 4 Just think if all of us were walking around skimming the surface, you know, where would we be as the human race? We need people who can go deep.

Speaker 3 Well, I like your message because many times when you hear people talk about this subject, that it's a very serious sub.

Speaker 3 Sensitivity is something to cope with, something to manage.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 your approach is more, well, yeah, fine, but let's celebrate it as well.

Speaker 4 That's exactly what I'm hoping to change.

Speaker 4 I'm hoping to help sensitive people see that it's something to revel in. And yes, there are things to cope with, absolutely.
But there's a lot to celebrate as well.

Speaker 3 I assume you're a sensitive person.

Speaker 4 Absolutely. Yes, I'm a very sensitive person.
I'm going to be the person who is crying if you show me a pet rescue video.

Speaker 4 You know, I feel

Speaker 4 tired being in a loud, busy place, you know, like a loud restaurant.

Speaker 4 I enjoy working from home because, you know, I used to be a classroom teacher. I taught fourth grade.
And although I loved that job, it was really hard on my sensitive system.

Speaker 4 You know, I've worked in a number of office jobs as well, but finding work that I can do from home, it really helps my sensitive system. So I've found ways to cope.

Speaker 4 I found ways to lean into my strengths. But yeah,

Speaker 4 I'm pretty sensitive.

Speaker 3 For people who aren't sensitive,

Speaker 3 but who have sensitive people in their life, what's your advice?

Speaker 4 For people who have sensitive people in their life, well, I would first of all say embrace their sensitivity, treasure it, don't just accept it, but revel in it.

Speaker 4 And again, that might be a mindset shift because we're accustomed to seeing the downsides of sensitivity.

Speaker 4 But there are so many things those people in your life can do. You're probably you probably have them in your life because in part because they're a sensitive person.

Speaker 4 They probably bring a lot of strengths to your relationship. So embrace it, love it, cherish it, and lean into those wonderful aspects that that sensitive person brings.

Speaker 3 And don't try to change them.

Speaker 4 Yeah, don't tell them they're too sensitive and they should toughen up. Like, what do you think is going to happen? I'm suddenly going to stop being sensitive.

Speaker 3 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 4 Like, oh, I hadn't thought of that before. Great.

Speaker 3 Well, as I said, I really like like your outlook and your approach to sensitive people. And I'm really surprised that you said that 30% of the population is highly sensitive.

Speaker 3 That surprises me because it doesn't seem like that many are, but I guess it's nice to know there are plenty of others.

Speaker 3 Jen Granaman has been my guest, and the name of her book is Sensitive, The Hidden Power of the Highly Sensitive Person in a Loud, Fast, Too Much World.

Speaker 3 And if you'd like to read the book, you can get it at Amazon. There's a link to it in the show notes.
Thank you, Jen.

Speaker 4 Thanks, Mike. This has been such a pleasure.

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Speaker 3 Recorded sound.

Speaker 3 You are listening to this podcast right now, which is recorded sound. And think about how much recorded sound you use in your life when you listen to music, other podcasts.

Speaker 3 Much of what you hear on the radio, the sound on television and in the movies. It's all recorded sound.

Speaker 3 The idea of recording sound and preserving it to hear later, and perhaps forever, is a rather amazing accomplishment.

Speaker 3 Thomas Edison is considered to be the inventor of the phonograph, the record player. That's the device that first played recorded sound for people to hear.

Speaker 3 But that's just the beginning of this rather amazing story. And here to tell it is Jonathan Scott.

Speaker 3 He's a writer and record collector and author of the book, Into the Groove, The Story of Sound from Tinfoil to Vinyl. Hey Jonathan, welcome to Something You Should Know.

Speaker 5 Hi Mike, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 So the story starts with Thomas Edison inventing the phonograph, the record player. And

Speaker 3 so when was that and how did this all come about?

Speaker 5 The very first time he sort of reproduced sound was in July 1877. You see,

Speaker 5 he was the year before the telephone had been invented.

Speaker 5 And Thomas Edison and his sort of cracked team of engineers at Menlo Park, New Jersey, were given quite a lot of money to come up with their own non-infringing version of the telephone.

Speaker 5 He was also working on a new kind of telegraph repeater that could take in Morse code messages and tap them out on paper. Okay, so those were the ingredients that were.

Speaker 5 And one day in July 1877, he was holding the mouthpiece of a telephone with a diaphragm on it and just sort of singing into it and feeling the way the diaphragm vibrated against his hand.

Speaker 5 And that was the Eureka moment where he suddenly turned to his chief engineer, Charles Batcher, and said, if we got a point on this diaphragm and then could pull some kind of, you know, recording medium beneath it, we could record sound and then play it back to us.

Speaker 5 And that day, they rigged up something that's known by sound historians as a strip phonograph, which was essentially what I've just described, a mouthpiece, a diaphragm with a little spike on it.

Speaker 5 And they pulled this sort of strip of waxy paper paper beneath it.

Speaker 5 He just shouted hello, hello into it while his assistant pulled the paper through.

Speaker 5 They pulled it through again, and although it wasn't a perfectly clear hello, hello, you can imagine it was a kind of scratchy imitation of sound, but it was recognizable as being the sound he had just made.

Speaker 5 And that was the first time that sound was reproduced.

Speaker 5 By the end of the year, that original strip phonograph had morphed into the first phonograph, which was a cylindrical shaped device that looked a bit like a lathe, really.

Speaker 5 Very simple device in lots of ways. And that had grooves,

Speaker 5 cut, ready-cut grooves in the cylinder, and you wrapped it in tin foil and spoke into it, and then you could play it back to yourself.

Speaker 5 And that was the invention that sort of was announced to the world in December 1877. And everyone thought, wow, the wizard of Menlo Park has done it again.

Speaker 3 And so when the first phonograph or the first idea of let's invent something that can record sound,

Speaker 3 the thinking was because if we could record sound, we could do what with it? I'm sure it wasn't so we could have top 10 records and play them on the radio. And it had to have been something else.

Speaker 3 So what was the thought, the process of what were we going to do with this if we nailed it?

Speaker 5 Well, Edison was all about making money, not because he was money obsessed, but because of the autonomy and that it gave him to work on more things.

Speaker 5 And he saw the phonograph as a tool for business, as an office aid. He thought that it would become an object that would be in every office across the land and would do away with a stenographer.

Speaker 5 You know, essentially, you could dictate a letter into your phonograph and then later up someone could type it up for you at their leisure. He famously wrote a list of its sort of uses.

Speaker 5 There was a top 10 list. And first was business.
I think third on the list was talking books for the blind. Music was fourth,

Speaker 5 which

Speaker 5 sounds, you know, seems strange when you think of what records have become.

Speaker 5 Although, if you go and listen to what those tin foil records sounded like, in ways it's less strange because they did not sound very good.

Speaker 5 You listen to them and you don't think, oh, quick, let's record some music because the sound

Speaker 5 is certainly not very good quality. In ways, my favourite part of the story was what happened next, because the phonograph launched, it created lots of interest and excitement all over the world.

Speaker 5 But because that first phonograph was essentially an interesting object, but you couldn't really do anything useful with it, the world became a place where people could record sound, but hardly anyone did.

Speaker 5 And that's when other

Speaker 5 scientists, experimenters came up with you know new versions of the phonograph and basically for about 10 years there was this sort of period where no one was really doing anything with phonographs apart from in the background and they came up with a new type of phonograph which sparked edison back into action and then by the 1890s we had wax cylindrical phonographs and the music industry begins to take off and whose idea was that who who thought hey if we could record music and then we could maybe sell it to people and they could play it in their homes,

Speaker 3 how did that come about?

Speaker 5 Oh, it's a really interesting period. The beginning of the 1890s is when music really sort of got going.

Speaker 5 So a whole load of small companies have started up to try and make profits out of this new technology.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 5 And they were finding that they couldn't. And the only way they could was through sort of nickel slot machine phonographs where people would put in a nickel to listen to music or interesting sounds.

Speaker 5 So they started asking Edison, we need more stuff like this. So even though he wanted to sell the phonograph as an office aid, he was forced by a load of clamoring people to start creating sounds.

Speaker 5 And it's known as the founding document of the recording industry. It's called the first book of phonograph records.
And this was essentially a log of recordings taken at Edison's laboratory.

Speaker 5 leading up to the first sales of musical records.

Speaker 5 And they started recording music and sending it out to

Speaker 5 these small companies.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 5 then the companies basically were being a pain. They kept on saying, oh, could you send more of this type of music, of that type of music, or more jigs?

Speaker 5 Edison got fed up with it, let go the controls and just said, you make your own music. And that was the moment when all over America, well, particularly in Columbia Records in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 5 and New York and Kansas, they started making their own records.

Speaker 3 And you say, and I find this really interesting, that the early popular recorded songs were marches, John Phillips Sousa marches. And it wasn't because people were just crazy over marches.

Speaker 3 It had a technical reason.

Speaker 5 Those early records, remember, there's no microphones. There's no tone control.
There's no volume. To record a cylindrical record, you needed a horn.

Speaker 5 And if you wanted it to be louder, you needed to either get closer to the horn or shout louder into the horn. And so, certain types of instruments, certain voices just didn't work well.

Speaker 5 But brass band music did. That sort of bump, bump, bump, worked very well.
So, John Philip Sousa was the great American composer and conductor, and he's sort of known as the March King.

Speaker 5 And in Washington, D.C.,

Speaker 5 he and his band, they just sold bucketloads of records.

Speaker 3 So, the cylinders, the cylinders that recorded music was on, gave way to records, vinyl records that we are more familiar with, 78s, 33s, 45s.

Speaker 3 And the advantage to that was what?

Speaker 5 A disc-shaped record,

Speaker 5 they could make lots of copies from a single recording. Whereas these first cylindrical records that were taking off, every recording was an original.

Speaker 5 And this is the mind-blowing fact from the 1890s that I always return to, is that for every recording, to make another copy of a record, to sell another copy of a record, they had to record it again.

Speaker 5 So John York Attlee, his hit The Mockingbird, to sell 10 copies of The Mockingbird, he had to perform it 10 times.

Speaker 3 So the first discs were the hard, brittle 78 RPM records. And if you listen to them today, I mean, they sound

Speaker 3 lousy. I mean, they're scratchy and the audio isn't great.
And compared to LPs, 33 and a third RPM LPs and 45s which sound much better.

Speaker 3 So there was a leap there in technology because the 78s just didn't sound very good.

Speaker 3 Well that's true.

Speaker 5 That's true.

Speaker 3 Although I am quite an admirer.

Speaker 5 The problem with 78s is that so often people put on a 78 and they haven't changed the needle.

Speaker 5 And back in the 78 days, you had to change the needle after every listen, which is such a weird idea nowadays. But it's true.

Speaker 5 So people will think, oh, I might see if I can play the 78 on this old gramophone player I found. And it will sound awful because they, you know, they're not used to how to get the best out of it.

Speaker 5 Honestly, a brand new 78 with a really good needle sounds surprisingly good.

Speaker 3 So I would imagine that, if my recollection is correct, that the 45 was the next kind of

Speaker 3 post in the timeline that was significant. Yes?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 5 That's right. So it was the 7-inch inch 45 RPM disc.
So it was similar technology, obviously. It was vinyl and it was similar micro grooves that could fit on loads more sound.

Speaker 5 And the interesting thing about them, well, there are two really interesting things about the first seven inches.

Speaker 5 First, they were coloured vinyl, which is just, I think it's interesting just because so many people would think of coloured vinyl as quite a modern idea, but no, the first seven inches were coloured vinyl, colour coded for different genres.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 children's sort of juvenile records were yellow, for example. Sort of country and western songs were green and so on.

Speaker 5 They had several, but they soon actually decided that was too expensive and made them all black.

Speaker 5 But the other interesting thing about 7-inches, considering that we all think of 7-inches as the ultimate, you know, it's the single, it's the throwaway,

Speaker 5 you know, three minutes to grab the listener. But when they first launched the 7-inch single, they tried to market it as...

Speaker 5 an answer to the LP

Speaker 5 because they launched these 7-inch singles with this really fast moving record changer on which you could pile 10 7-inch records, okay?

Speaker 5 And then just leave them.

Speaker 5 So their argument was, all right, if you put 10 of these records on, let's say four minutes of sound on each one, that means it's 40 minutes before you have to go back to the record player to change any records.

Speaker 5 So I just always find that fascinating that part of their marketing push was buy seven inch records.

Speaker 3 They're really

Speaker 5 good for really long pieces of music. But obviously, obviously, the interesting thing, because what happened next was the so-called speed wars, where just for a while,

Speaker 5 you know, Columbia carried on with their LPs, RCA with their seven-inches, but eventually they all came together and record companies would put out LPs on 12-inch, singles on 7-inch.

Speaker 5 And that became, it changed music. It became the, you know, the 7-inch and album became the calling card

Speaker 5 for musicians and artists. You know, the 7-inch was the place where you put your one song that could grab the listener, and the album was where you put your, you know, your statement.

Speaker 3 Anyone who remembers playing 45s remembers that big hole in the center of the record, and it was always a pain because you had to find that adapter thingy to put in the middle.

Speaker 3 I looked up why that is, why the hole on 45s was so much bigger than on LPs.

Speaker 3 And there are multiple explanations as to why the hole was so big. One having to do with jukeboxes being able to play both sides of the record more easily.

Speaker 3 Another had to do with allowing the sudden rotational forces to be distributed over a greater distance. And another reason had to do basically with a format war between the record companies.

Speaker 3 But I just think it's weird that the answer isn't really clear. No one seems to be exactly certain why that hole was so big.
And then anyway, it seems like

Speaker 3 the next big milestone after LPs and 45s was the cassette tape because you could play it in your car. Well, I guess 8-track tapes too,

Speaker 3 but then the cassette and 8-tracks didn't really stick.

Speaker 3 But the cassette was great because you could play it in your car or on your portable Walkman cassette player. But the sound quality of cassette tape, I mean, compared to others, it's crap.

Speaker 3 It's really crap.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 5 I mean, I remember when I showed my daughter a tape, I pressed play and she said oh wow I can hear hissing, you know

Speaker 5 That was her first reaction was like there's so much hiss

Speaker 5 But yeah, it had a number of advantages over records you could fit quite a long lot on there. There was no scratches, but yes, the sound was poor but this is the thing about records.

Speaker 5 It's so interesting because like records took off in the early 1900s and blah blah blah blah then radio came along and everyone said that would be the death of records.

Speaker 5 Then reel-to-reel tape was a a bit more of a pain, but when cassette tape came along, everyone thought that would be the death of records. Then cassette plus CD, that'll be the death of records.

Speaker 5 And now, with downloads and streaming, I really thought, okay,

Speaker 5 surely this one will take records down once and for all. But somehow they still cling on.

Speaker 3 Well, something that becomes very obvious when you talk about recorded sound is that most recorded sound is music. And well, now podcasts, but music is

Speaker 3 the thing. And was there ever any attempt or anything people did with sound in the earlier days of recorded sound that wasn't music, that wasn't leaning into creating the music industry?

Speaker 5 There's an American guy called Colonel Giroux. He was in London in the 1880s, and essentially he became Thomas Edison's kind of cheerleader.

Speaker 5 And he was really good at generating column inches about whatever Edison had invented. And when the perfected phonograph was over there, he went around and recorded famous people.

Speaker 5 You know, he recorded Sullivan of Gilbert and Sullivan fame.

Speaker 5 And he recorded, so he's got some of these very rare recordings, the only recordings of Florence Nightingale and various other sort of people of that era. And it just,

Speaker 5 in fact, if there's one thing, this is, sorry, this is a slight, this is a sidetrack because it's back to music, but if there's one thing that listeners should do, it's type in the words, Crystal Palace, 1888.

Speaker 5 And the reason being, Colonel Giroux took the phonograph to a handle festival that was taking place in the summer of 1888.

Speaker 5 And he put the phonograph in the, he was up in the press gallery, and there was a choir of thousands and an audience of thousands as well. And he recorded them singing at this handle festival.

Speaker 5 And the sound quality, you can hear it today, is awful, but there's something about that recording that absolutely gives me goosebumps because although the sound is terrible you can hear that somewhere in there is something very beautiful and it's as near as you can get to sort of putting your ear to the door of 1888 it's just i really recommend it crystal palace 1888 just go and listen to it it's amazing And so now then we get to, we get to C D's at some point.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 like you said,

Speaker 3 people said well that'll be the the death of of LPs and I remember thinking the same thing because the one thing that I always was bothered by records is that they skip there's pops and clicks and scratches and the CD made mostly made that all go away which sounded great no I was with you I begrudgingly I did I preferred CDs in lots of ways but

Speaker 5 you know they sounded amazing they were hardy they you know you could scratch them and you could certainly stop them from working but it took a a lot, you know, you had to be really clumsy to do that.

Speaker 5 But for me, there's still, I think, what score via vinyl will always score for me over CDs is not to do with sound quality, it's to do with the sort of process of actually listening to a record.

Speaker 5 There's something magical about that, that sort of you know, you allow yourself the time to go and sit in front of your stereo or whatever.

Speaker 5 You know, it's all the delightful clicks and hums, and you know, putting the needle in the groove and just sitting there.

Speaker 5 And it's a sort of different, it's a sort of ritual that's that's different to other formats but i mean don't get me wrong i loved cds i just they i never quite loved them right i didn't like the plastic cases and you couldn't see the artwork so well and the writing was always so small yeah so even though i've got you know don't get me wrong i've got far too many cds as well as records I just don't feel the same level of passion for them.

Speaker 3 But you know, certainly you know, that there are those people who swear that, that, you know, that vinyl sounds better, that C D's because some of the information is missing. But I just,

Speaker 3 it kind of sounds like more like snobbery to me than anything else because I can't, if I can't hear the difference, why should I care?

Speaker 5 Yeah, at the risk of alienating the kind of people who do think records are the best. Yes, there have been times in my life when I've been a bit of a vinyl snob, but I'm similar.

Speaker 5 I personally just think the music is the important thing. And however you listen to it is up to you.
Now, I love records.

Speaker 5 I personally don't think that that means, you know, there's a sort of snobbery that you're only a proper music fan if you've got your records. And I just don't believe that's true.

Speaker 3 You know, I don't think people really stop and think about how important

Speaker 3 recorded sound is in our lives. I mean, think about how much people listen to music and now podcasts and audio books.
And recorded sound is a big part of our lives.

Speaker 3 And it's really interesting to hear how it all came to be. I've been speaking with Jonathan Scott.
He is the author of a book called Into the Groove: The Story of Sound from Tinfoil to Vinyl.

Speaker 3 And there is a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Appreciate it.
Thank you, Jonathan. This was fun.

Speaker 5 Thanks, Mike. It's been so much fun.
Thanks so much for having me on.

Speaker 3 Do you still have checks, paper checks? I do. I don't use them often.
Most of my bills and things I pay for electronically, but

Speaker 3 sometimes it seems like you need a check. There's every once in a while it's just easier to write somebody a check.

Speaker 3 And if you do have checks, the next time you have them printed, you might want to remove your address and certainly your phone number off the check.

Speaker 3 It's just too much information for potential identity thieves, according to Linda Foley, founder of the Identity Theft Resource Center.

Speaker 3 And if you do remove your address, you might also notice less junk mail in your mailbox in the future.

Speaker 3 When you use a check, everyone who holds it, from the store, the company, the bank, they all can see your address and can easily add you to their mailing list. And that is something you should know.

Speaker 3 If you found this episode interesting, informative, entertaining, all of the above, do me a favor and share it with someone you know so they could be interested, entertained, and informed as well.

Speaker 3 I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.
Next up is a little song from CarMax about selling a car your way. You wanna sell those wheels?

Speaker 3 You wanna get a CarMax instant offer. So fast.
Wanna take a sec to think about it. Or like a monster.
Wanna keep tabs on that instant offer. With OfferWatch.

Speaker 3 Wanna have CarMax pick it up from the driveway?

Speaker 3 Does it

Speaker 3 you want to? So, want to drive? CarMax. Pickup not available everywhere.
Restrictions and female play.

Speaker 5 The Infinite Monkey Cage returns imminently. I am Robin Ins, and I've sat next to Brian Cox, who has so much to tell you about what's on the new series.
Primarily eels.

Speaker 1 And what else?

Speaker 5 It was fascinating, though. The eels.
But we're not just doing eels, are we? We're doing a bit.

Speaker 5 Brain-computer interfaces, timekeeping, fusion, monkey business, cloud, science of the North Pole, and eels. Did I mention the eels?

Speaker 5 Is this ever since you bought that timeshare underneath the Sagasso C? Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.