Selects: Seven - No, Wait, Five - Mysteries of the Art World

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Speaker 12 Hey everybody, it's me, Josh, and for this week's Select, I've chosen our episode on Art Mysteries. It's a great one.

Speaker 12 Chuck and I are secretly jazzed by art history, it turns out, and this episode is the best of any we've done on the subject. May also be the only one.

Speaker 12 At any rate it's a good episode and I think you'll enjoy it.

Speaker 25 So enjoy!

Speaker 1 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 26 Hey and welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 27 I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W.

Speaker 26 Chuck Brian over there and Jerry's here somewhere.

Speaker 29 So this is Stuff You Should Know.

Speaker 30 The Art World Edition.

Speaker 31 Yeah. You know what I just realized?

Speaker 6 We record these in twos,

Speaker 31 and we just recorded the Pogs episode.

Speaker 33 Right.

Speaker 31 And you didn't say, welcome to the Pogcast.

Speaker 34 I didn't.

Speaker 18 What a missed opportunity for a great dad joke.

Speaker 35 That sounds like something I would skip, though, even had I thought of it.

Speaker 37 I don't know that I would have pulled the trigger on that.

Speaker 31 I think, or I could see you pulling the trigger and then making fun of yourself

Speaker 42 right but i would have just been engaged in self-loathing for the rest of the podcast well retroactively i'm going to say i hope everyone enjoyed the podcast

Speaker 44 now let's talk about art mysteries i love this one man this is great This reminds me like a of a stuff you should know episode from years back for some reason.

Speaker 6 Well, it's because we don't do these top lists anymore.

Speaker 31 That's part of it. You know, very famously, we used to have top tens on our old house stuff works website, of which usually there were maybe seven decent entries.

Speaker 31 So we never did, I don't think we ever did a full 10 on anything. Maybe somebody could probably correct this, but this one actually came in at seven.

Speaker 29 They didn't even try.

Speaker 5 And I don't even know. We may do like five of these.

Speaker 45 We haven't even figured it out yet.

Speaker 40 We'll see. We're going to play it fast and loose.

Speaker 28 I think that's another reason why it reminds me of an old Stuff You Should Know episode.

Speaker 38 Fast and loose. Like I was,

Speaker 44 yeah, fast and loose.

Speaker 36 First, you got the fast, then you got the loose.

Speaker 31 But never furious. Fast and loose.

Speaker 31 No. Because he wants to be mad.

Speaker 21 I don't know.

Speaker 47 They should have called that series Fast and Loose.

Speaker 21 Tokyo Drift.

Speaker 28 I think I've heard it before that that series is the highest-grossing movie franchise in the history of film, like worldwide.

Speaker 31 Yeah, you know what's funny is at one point we were, this was years ago, we were talking with Ludacris about doing something with the network.

Speaker 31 And I, because he's a local guy here in Atlanta. And I

Speaker 2 talked to our boss and said,

Speaker 50 what's he doing these days?

Speaker 5 Like, I haven't heard any music.

Speaker 8 And he went, he makes Fast and Furious movies. Like, that's his job now.

Speaker 21 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Because he's just getting rich off of making these movies.

Speaker 44 Like, I can't even imagine. And plus, also, I mean, they're pretty.

Speaker 26 It's pretty involved movie making, I would guess.

Speaker 24 Like, I'm sure because there's so many stars involved that, you know, the shooting schedule for each one isn't necessarily, you know a year-long endeavor or anything like that and they probably have it down to like a pretty fast science by now but like I would think that would eat up a pretty decent amount of your time shooting one of those films every few you know a couple times a

Speaker 42 well I guess every few years I only saw one of those I think man I'm slowly like degenerating into Bob Newhart man have you noticed oh man good

Speaker 21 Yeah, you could degenerate into worse things than that, but I mean like I'm really I'm really hitting that Newhart note these days, I've noticed.

Speaker 31 That's a great note. I love it.
I've always wanted Bob Newhart as my podcasting partner.

Speaker 53 So, well, you, you've, uh, you've, um, there you go.

Speaker 38 You've got it.

Speaker 45 All right, number one on the list.

Speaker 4 You want to talk a little, uh, Caravaggio?

Speaker 57 So, Caravaggio is my new favorite painter.

Speaker 21 Oh, yeah?

Speaker 42 Not just because he was a scummy low-life swordsman

Speaker 33 from the murderer, yeah.

Speaker 62 Um,

Speaker 63 He was a gambler.

Speaker 28 He would, he had weapons charges against him while he was alive.

Speaker 27 He was not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination.

Speaker 63 Very troubled person is a really polite way to put it. But if you look at his art, like I had no idea.

Speaker 40 I've seen like so many works of his art, and I never pieced together that they were the same person.

Speaker 25 And then when I really started to read some criticism of his work, I'm like, oh my God, this guy, he's considered one of the fathers of modern art.

Speaker 40 And this guy was painting at the beginning of the 17th century, the early 1600s.

Speaker 33 And just like Pogs, he burned hot and bright and fast and furious, actually, sadly.

Speaker 21 Oh, that's right.

Speaker 47 That wasn't even forced. Nice work, Bob.

Speaker 31 Thanks. So, Michelangelo Marisi di Caravaggio was an Italian Baroque painter.

Speaker 31 He, at one point in 1606, killed killed a man named Romuccio Tomasani and said, I got to get out of here because I'm in big trouble now and went to went away from Rome and fled to Malta where he had a pretty brief but

Speaker 31 I guess notable stay. He was only there about six months.

Speaker 39 and kind of hiding out and quickly hooked up with the Knights of Malta

Speaker 31 and was briefly one of the Knights of Malta.

Speaker 25 Like for a month.

Speaker 31 Yeah, and painted one of his most famous paintings there, the oil on canvas,

Speaker 31 12 feet by 17 feet, the beheading of John the Baptist.

Speaker 48 Yeah, it was an altarpiece for the Order of St.

Speaker 28 John, also known as the Knights of Malta.

Speaker 33 They were going to, again, put this behind the altar in their church on Malta.

Speaker 63 And it was actually his little entry fee.

Speaker 66 They charged an entry fee, usually money, to their initiates.

Speaker 38 Or pause.

Speaker 21 But

Speaker 21 yeah but they accepted this altarpiece this giant painting of saint john the baptist being beheaded and it was actually i mean as far as a caravaggio goes especially toward the end of his life it's actually fairly tame because there's not you know like jets of blood spurting out it's a pool of blood that's being shown um he he painted some really violent stuff yeah and and like you said that that kind of um that he was a master of light and shadow it's called Kira Scuro,

Speaker 24 and he used it to really dramatic effect, including in that painting.

Speaker 28 And in fact, one of the other paintings that you might have seen of his, Chuck,

Speaker 37 it's called Judith Beheading Holofernes.

Speaker 21 Have you seen it? I have.

Speaker 23 So, Judith, the woman who's in that painting,

Speaker 46 the woman who modeled for that, for Judith, that was the woman that he killed Bernuccio Tomassoni over.

Speaker 21 Right.

Speaker 28 Did you know that?

Speaker 31 I did.

Speaker 38 Oh, you did? Okay.

Speaker 31 Well, at any rate, they really, they really, in this How Stuff Works article, they called it a petty squabble, and that really doesn't tell the story.

Speaker 63 Yeah, another explanation I saw was that it was over a tennis wager.

Speaker 69 And this is real tennis, not lawn tennis.

Speaker 67 And real tennis is kind of like this kooky

Speaker 11 mix between

Speaker 33 squash and

Speaker 53 racquetball and tennis.

Speaker 64 And it's all indoors, and there's like horsesheds basically involved that you can play off the roofs of.

Speaker 28 It's really interesting stuff.

Speaker 67 And he used to play that a lot too.

Speaker 30 But so it was either over a wager or it was over this woman.

Speaker 24 Her name was,

Speaker 21 what was it? Judith.

Speaker 58 No, Felide.

Speaker 36 Felide, I believe, was the actual woman's name who modeled for Judith.

Speaker 33 So he ends up on Malta.

Speaker 28 He becomes a knight.

Speaker 28 And when he becomes this knight, he paints this altarpiece and he signs his name in the pool of blood, which you're like, Well, he's an artist.

Speaker 67 That seems like something an artist would do.

Speaker 69 Not Caravaggio.

Speaker 24 This is actually the first and only work of his that he ever signed, which a lot of people are like, okay, wait a minute, let's examine this.

Speaker 31 Yeah, and it kind of took a while for it to be even very visible because it underwent some restorations over the years.

Speaker 31 And in the 1950s, they did a restoration where they really could see the signature and what it said. I don't know about for the first time, but like super clearly at least.

Speaker 39 And it said F,

Speaker 31 period, dot,

Speaker 31 F Michelang, M-I-C-H-E-L-A-N-G.

Speaker 31 And then, you know, of course, everyone's like, well, what does this mean? Because there is no F in his name. It's not like his initial.
Is he saying, you know, hey, screw Michelangelo, myself?

Speaker 8 Screw me?

Speaker 45 Or I'm screwed?

Speaker 43 No, no one really said that.

Speaker 31 They They thought the F, there are a couple of different theories, thought it was shorthand for frater, or which means brother, because he was one of the knights, and maybe he just meant like brother Michelangelo or whatever.

Speaker 31 And then some other people said, no, maybe it means, stands for feset, F-E-C-I-T,

Speaker 31 which is Latin for did,

Speaker 31 translating basically into

Speaker 31 I did it, and it's spelled out in blood, kind of confessing to his crime.

Speaker 71 Right.

Speaker 46 So that's kind of like where the mystery comes comes in.

Speaker 22 Was he confessing to the crime of murdering Renuccio Tomassoni?

Speaker 64 From what I saw, most

Speaker 28 I can't say most, but the art historians and critics that I saw basically said, no, he almost certainly wasn't doing that.

Speaker 60 For one, everybody knew that he did it.

Speaker 29 He'd already been convicted in absentia.

Speaker 42 That's what I thought.

Speaker 28 So it's not like he was confessing to it.

Speaker 42 Although you can make the case that he was confessing in the Catholic sense of the word, you know what I mean?

Speaker 53 Right.

Speaker 31 Like before God.

Speaker 38 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 64 Or de Bears.

Speaker 47 That painting still hangs at St.

Speaker 45 John's Co-Cathedral in Malta, too.

Speaker 71 Okay, yeah.

Speaker 46 Well, I mean, it was the altar piece.

Speaker 22 Like, it was a big deal that they got their hands on this because he was a celebrated painter at the time already in his lifetime.

Speaker 42 But the other interpretation that he was saying F as in Frater or brother

Speaker 66 Michelangelo

Speaker 49 about himself, that's probably the likelier version because he was at the time time seeking a pardon from the Pope so he could return to Rome.

Speaker 42 And by saying, like, I'm in this holy order, I'm basically like a Catholic holy man now, a leader of the church because the Order of St.

Speaker 27 John, the Knights of Malta, have inducted me.

Speaker 42 He was basically shouting it loud and proud by signing that one particular very holy painting that he did.

Speaker 31 But they said, nice try, buddy.

Speaker 54 And they kicked him out for being a, quote foul and rotten member end quote so it didn't work a month after a month dude he lasted a month in the order of saint john and it's not like they ran around willy-nilly inducting people like they basically um had no idea that they had um

Speaker 21 uh

Speaker 22 what was vic's last name in the shield vic tabak

Speaker 33 No, not Vic Tabak.

Speaker 31 I don't know. I didn't watch The Shield.

Speaker 42 Oh, you didn't? That was good.

Speaker 28 I re-watched like the last seven episodes the other night over a couple of nights.

Speaker 21 It still holds up, actually.

Speaker 63 But anyway, they didn't realize that they had inducted him, the guy from The Shield, and they figured it out pretty quickly.

Speaker 73 So he made his way back from Malta to, I believe, Sicily

Speaker 23 on his way to Rome.

Speaker 67 And I think he actually got a pardon and got into yet another squabble, another sword fight, and

Speaker 28 sustained some wounds.

Speaker 36 And between infected wounds, they think he got a staph infection.

Speaker 38 Lead poisoning.

Speaker 28 He apparently had gone rather mad from being exposed to the paints that he painted with.

Speaker 62 And then

Speaker 67 sun exposure, sunstroke on the beach in Tuscany finally killed him.

Speaker 31 And so it goes.

Speaker 40 Yes, it does. But his paintings are still just amazing.

Speaker 28 I can look at them all day, you know?

Speaker 21 Yeah, me too.

Speaker 31 I like his stuff.

Speaker 28 I do too.

Speaker 53 So that's Caravaggio. How about Vermeer?

Speaker 31 Well, I think we should take a break.

Speaker 21 Oh, gosh.

Speaker 31 And we'll be back right after this.

Speaker 2 Support for the show today comes from Public.com.

Speaker 4 You're thoughtful about where your money goes.

Speaker 5 You've got core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic options plays on the side.

Speaker 8 The point is, you're engaged with your investments, and Public gets that.

Speaker 9 Yeah, that's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can put together a multi-asset portfolio for the long haul.

Speaker 10 Stocks, bonds, options, crypto, it's all there.

Speaker 11 Plus, an industry-leading 3.6% APY high-yield cash account.

Speaker 14 Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously. Go to public.com slash SYSK and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio.

Speaker 3 That's public.com slash SYSK.

Speaker 19 Paid for by Public Investing. All investing involves risk of loss, including loss of principal.
Brokerage services for U.S.

Speaker 19 listed registered registered securities, options, and bonds in a self-directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc., member FINRA, and SIPC. Crypto trading provided by ZeroHash.

Speaker 19 Complete disclosures available at public.com/slash disclosures.

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Speaker 31 All right, we had a great cliffhanger with Vermeer.

Speaker 31 Vermeer, the very famous Dutch artist, Johannes Vermeer,

Speaker 31 had a very famous painting, a lot of very famous paintings, but one in particular that has had a bunch of names over the years.

Speaker 31 In fact, it did not get the name Girl with a Pearl Earring until the 20th century. It was called everything from Girl with a Turban to Girl with an Earring.

Speaker 31 Had lots of different names because it was not officially titled by Vermeer nor dated, even though they think it was around 1665.

Speaker 46 Yeah, he was just like this dude who lived in Delft in the Netherlands and never left his hometown and had a wife and 15 kids.

Speaker 72 15.

Speaker 44 Yeah, 15 kids.

Speaker 66 And just kind of painted and he made probably a comparatively small number of works.

Speaker 67 I think around 36 are attributed to him.

Speaker 60 And there's a theory that as many as a fifth of those were done by his oldest daughter, Maria.

Speaker 35 But he's kind of like this enigma at the time, not just personally, but also the stuff he was painting.

Speaker 33 There was a huge movement among the Dutch painters at the time that they would paint like these, you know, horrific

Speaker 67 hellscapes, or there was a lot of like obvious narrative and symbolism just all over the paintings.

Speaker 46 There was just a lot going on.

Speaker 71 Vermeer went a different way where he would almost peek in on very normal daily life

Speaker 21 and capture like these really just kind of boring or otherwise mundane moments.

Speaker 57 But he did it in a way that this guy was like

Speaker 65 the master of light.

Speaker 54 He makes Thomas Kincaid look like puke as far as like, you know, light mastery goes.

Speaker 45 So Girl with a Pearl Earring, everyone has seen it.

Speaker 31 Like I said, it's very famous.

Speaker 39 It's of a young girl, looks to be sort of like mid-teenage years, looking over her shoulder.

Speaker 31 She's wearing a dress, she's wearing that turban,

Speaker 31 very prominent earrings, large pearl earrings, and pearls factored into quite a few of his works over the years.

Speaker 31 And it's one of those paintings where the eyes follow you, supposedly, which we've talked about in one of our short stuff episodes.

Speaker 25 On Mona Lisa?

Speaker 47 I think so.

Speaker 31 Yeah, it's, you know, the effect of the eyes following, which doesn't happen in all paintings with eyes.

Speaker 71 Oh, no, the Mona Lisa's eyes actually don't follow you.

Speaker 48 I think that was the big reveal of that one.

Speaker 53 Was it?

Speaker 21 Yeah.

Speaker 31 All right. So he paints this painting.
And then, of course, the mystery of this one is, who is this person?

Speaker 31 There has been speculation that it might be a mistress.

Speaker 31 A lot of people think it was his daughter Maria, who would have been about 15 or 16. And like you said, who

Speaker 31 some people believe painted about a fifth of the works attributed to him because about a fifth of his collected works aren't,

Speaker 31 I mean, this sounds mean to say, but they aren't as they aren't up to snuff compared to his other works.

Speaker 31 So they sort of stand out from the rest.

Speaker 39 So they think that they may have been Maria's good paintings still.

Speaker 58 Yeah, they're still a lot better than anything I could.

Speaker 31 Yeah, it's not like they were stick figures, you know, out of nowhere.

Speaker 35 They're like, this Vermeer seems off.

Speaker 31 But, you know, if you, there was a 1999 novel from Tracy Chevalier, The Girl with the Pearl Earring, and then the 2000 film adaptation starring Scarlett Johansson, who was perfectly cast.

Speaker 31 She looks, you know, quite a bit like the girl with the pearl earring. But this was historical fiction.

Speaker 31 If you've seen that movie and you're like, no, she was the family's maid's assistant and love interest to Vermeer. That was just, I don't even think that was based on anything.

Speaker 31 It's just historical fiction.

Speaker 28 Yes. From what I've seen, the art critics and historians basically tend to think that there was no person that this was modeled on.

Speaker 54 It wasn't even necessarily his daughter.

Speaker 62 And in fact, it was

Speaker 37 kind of

Speaker 22 a trend at the time, a painting called a troni, which was an imaginary figure, a person who didn't actually exist.

Speaker 37 And the point was to kind of show off things like costumes and jewelry, which is

Speaker 42 ostensibly the point of that painting.

Speaker 68 But the thing is, the Vermeer,

Speaker 64 the face that that he did and

Speaker 64 the place that he put her, like

Speaker 28 we were talking about how she gets compared to Mona Lisa, she's called the Mona Lisa of the North.

Speaker 44 Mona Lisa is like sitting back in the painting.

Speaker 29 The girl with the pearl earring is like right in the foreground, like right.

Speaker 37 There's very little between you and her. And she's turned around and her mouth's open, which apparently was very unusual for painting, Dutch painting at the time.

Speaker 28 And it looks like she's going to say something. I guess that that is what entrances people with this this this image that you know What's she going to say?

Speaker 27 What did he capture her about to say?

Speaker 24 You know, it looks like she's turning around like oh and you know this other thing I hadn't told you maybe she was an improv

Speaker 31 comedian and she was yes

Speaker 31 but this is a mystery that will never be solved which sometimes I like those kind of mysteries when it comes to stuff like this Yeah, and I saw that argued as well that it was like, you know, if we knew who she was, it would just it would we would lose a lot of the interest in it.

Speaker 47 And we would have found out by now, I think.

Speaker 62 Yes.

Speaker 62 Yeah, and you're right.

Speaker 37 We probably won't ever know.

Speaker 29 But because of this, so like, it wasn't like very well

Speaker 24 thought of, or nobody really thought much of it until 1995, and the National Gallery used it as the poster for their big exhibit.

Speaker 28 But since then, a lot of people have really kind of examined it.

Speaker 40 And I hadn't noticed this before, but I saw it pointed out, Chuck, if you look at the pearl earring, first of all, it's improbably large is how I saw it described.

Speaker 30 Like the ear couldn't physically hold up a pearl that size.

Speaker 11 But then, secondly,

Speaker 27 it's really basically made with two brush strokes.

Speaker 25 Both of them are reflecting light.

Speaker 37 One is from the light source, and then the lower one is reflecting the light off of the collar.

Speaker 53 And it's pretty amazing that, you know, we talk about this, the girl with the pearl earring, and this pearl itself is like a kind of a cultural icon too.

Speaker 55 And it's basically just two brush strokes, which is kind of goes to to show how great Vermeer was.

Speaker 25 Amazing.

Speaker 26 Have you ever seen Tim's Vermeer, the documentary?

Speaker 21 I have not.

Speaker 36 Oh, Chuck, you've got to see it.

Speaker 55 It's directed by Teller from Penn and Teller,

Speaker 27 which makes you think, like, how did he direct if he doesn't talk, you know?

Speaker 46 But he somehow did.

Speaker 21 I think he talked. And in private.

Speaker 38 It's about what?

Speaker 31 That's just a bit.

Speaker 68 And

Speaker 42 it's about a guy who basically figured out that Vermeer somehow projected images that he built in real life onto a canvas and then painted them that way.

Speaker 67 And he actually replicates a Vermeer like perfectly.

Speaker 28 It's really just one of the better documentaries you'll ever see.

Speaker 21 Very cool.

Speaker 52 Yeah.

Speaker 71 So what do you think, Anda Raphael?

Speaker 31 Yeah, so the mystery here, and this is one of our, this actually has a Simpsons crossover as well, which is kind of fun because

Speaker 31 Raphael painted a very famous painting called Portrait of a Young Man

Speaker 31 and is

Speaker 31 largely described as one of the most famous, if not the most famous, pieces of art to go missing during the plundering of great art in World War II by Hitler and the gang.

Speaker 31 And this is a crossover with the Simpsons in that in the Fighting Hellfish episode,

Speaker 31 when Grandpa Abe and Burns are stealing art, this is one of the paintings, Portrait of a Young Man.

Speaker 21 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 38 It's one of the paintings that they stole.

Speaker 31 Wow. Which shows that, you know, Simpsons writers back then, at least, were definitely doing their work,

Speaker 31 like their research work, because that's a nice little Easter egg, I think.

Speaker 38 Yeah, it totally is.

Speaker 73 Doesn't it even talk?

Speaker 28 Doesn't it say something like someone's guilty conscience or something? I don't remember my making that up. I don't know.

Speaker 47 I don't remember.

Speaker 31 I mean, it's been a long time since I've seen that one, but it was one of the great episodes, I think.

Speaker 21 So the portrait of a young man, which they think was a Raphael self-portrait, and actually we have no idea what the colors were because the only photographs we have of it were in black and white but it used to hang in the Prince's Zartorski Museum in Poland along with two other really important paintings Leonardo's Lady with an Irmine which is a scout stoat I can't remember kind of a weasel-like animal and then Rembrandt's landscape with the Good Samaritan

Speaker 11 and all three of those and everything else in the Prince's Zartorsky Museum were swiped by the Nazis when they came to Poland and placed in the office of a guy named Hans Frank, who was the head of the government for the Nazis in Poland, right?

Speaker 31 Yeah, and you know, they almost, they almost got these hidden away successfully. When Poland was being invaded, they knew that the art was going to be plundered.

Speaker 31 And so those three paintings were actually rescued by the prince and hidden away

Speaker 31 in a house in a place that I can't even pronounce, Sienowa.

Speaker 31 I'm not sure what that is, but they were ultimately found by the Gestapo and handed over to

Speaker 17 Frank.

Speaker 31 And Frank, you know, they were supposed to go to Hitler. Hitler was going to open a new museum, the Führer Museum in Linz.

Speaker 31 And Frank actually kind of kept it for a little while, hung it in his residence, and then eventually

Speaker 31 this thing went to Germany and then Austria. for a little while and then back with Frank in 1945.

Speaker 37 Which seems crazy and probable that they would end up back with him, but they did.

Speaker 24 And the Allies came in to Poland, I guess, and arrested Hans Frank in 1945, and they were able to find the lady with an ermine and the landscape with the Good Samaritan, but the portrait of the young man was nowhere to be found.

Speaker 31 Yeah, they found a lot of other stuff, too.

Speaker 71 Sure, they definitely did.

Speaker 48 But the three most important pieces in the Prince's Tsartarsky Museum were those three, and two were recovered, one wasn't.

Speaker 30 And it's very odd to think that they were separated at any time, or that it's even odder to think that two were kept together, but one wasn't.

Speaker 40 And so, because the portrait of the young man was not recovered, and it's a Raphael, who's one of the great Italian Renaissance painters, it's considered maybe the most important piece to go missing in World War II.

Speaker 31 Yeah, and they, you know, along with I think over 800 other artifacts, they got from him, and they could not go on to question him very long because he was executed just a year later.

Speaker 31 And since then, there have been a lot of rumors about where this thing ended up, who has it, a lot of speculation that maybe a private collector in another country has it.

Speaker 4 I think in 2012, there was a false report that it was supposedly in some bank vault.

Speaker 31 And they really don't know. It's just sort of one of those great mysteries of a disappeared painting.

Speaker 17 And

Speaker 31 my money is on a private collector who probably has this thing stashed away. but you would also think that at some point somebody would talk

Speaker 37 you would think so um and you know maybe they will eventually unless it's really stashed Well, some people think it was destroyed.

Speaker 42 In that movie, Monuments men,

Speaker 57 they show the Nazis igniting it with a flamethrower in a cave with a bunch of other art.

Speaker 28 And there's a whole camp that says, no, this thing is, it's gone forever.

Speaker 48 So they did something to it because the Nazis were known not just plunder, but also destroy art as well, which just one more reason to love them Nazis.

Speaker 31 Yeah.

Speaker 31 And I think this is oil on panel, so I don't think this could even be like rolled up in a tube and put under your bed or anything.

Speaker 57 Yeah, I would guess not.

Speaker 28 No, I didn't realize it was on panel, but that makes sense.

Speaker 41 But the state, the National Museum in Kraków bought the entire Princess Zarkorsky collection from a private collector for 100 million euros back in 2016.

Speaker 33 And that, I know.

Speaker 28 And that included the rights to portrait of a young man in case it's ever found.

Speaker 37 And for now, it just they have the original frame hanging empty in the in the gallery.

Speaker 31 Oh, yeah, that's it turns out that's a thing I didn't know was a thing.

Speaker 31 Empty frames in galleries. It's kind of sad.

Speaker 29 Yeah, it's sad. It's very poignant.
It says, come home.

Speaker 21 Come home.

Speaker 37 We're leaving the light on for you.

Speaker 41 Come home.

Speaker 21 Just like Motel 6. That's right.

Speaker 21 Tom Bro call.

Speaker 53 We'll leave the light on for you.

Speaker 47 All right.

Speaker 31 Well, that means it's time for another break.

Speaker 21 And we'll be back back right after this to talk a little bit about Van Gogh.

Speaker 2 Support for the show today comes from public.com.

Speaker 4 You're thoughtful about where your money goes.

Speaker 5 You've got core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic options plays on the side.

Speaker 8 The point is you're engaged with your investments and public gets that.

Speaker 9 Yeah, that's why they built an investing investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can put together a multi-asset portfolio for the long haul.

Speaker 10 Stocks, bonds, options, crypto, it's all there.

Speaker 11 Plus, an industry-leading 3.6% APY high-yield cash account.

Speaker 14 Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously.

Speaker 17 Go to public.com slash SYSK and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio.

Speaker 3 That's public.com slash SYSK.

Speaker 19 Paid for by public investing. All investing involves risk of loss, including loss of principal.
Brokerage services for U.S.

Speaker 19 listed registered securities, options, and bonds in a self-directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc., member FINRA and SIPC. CryptoTrading provided by ZeroHash.

Speaker 19 Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures.

Speaker 12 Living with a rare autoimmune condition comes with challenges, but also incredible strength, especially for those living with conditions like myasthenia gravis or MG and chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, otherwise known as CIDP.

Speaker 12 Finding empowerment in the community is critical.

Speaker 7 That's right.

Speaker 14 And in the latest season of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby studio production in partnership with Argenix, host Martine Hackett explores what it means to reclaim your identity, discover resilience, and cultivate self-advocacy.

Speaker 12 From the frustration of misdiagnosis to the small victories that fuel hope, every story told is meant to to unite, uplift, and empower.

Speaker 12 And that inspires us all to take one step closer to being a better advocate and seeing life from a different point of view.

Speaker 34 So if you or a loved one are living with an autoimmune condition, find inspiration along your path.

Speaker 34 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 76 Let's talk about something you probably haven't thought about. Your couch.

Speaker 77 Yeah, that thing you nap on, eat on, cry on.

Speaker 76 Turns out that most sofas are basically bacteria playgrounds.

Speaker 77 It's true. We looked it up.
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Speaker 76 Because let's be real, you deserve better than a germ factory for a place to rest your head. Check out washable sofas.com now and give your couch the upgrade it's begging for.

Speaker 63 So, Chuck, before I launch into a Saka Gawe

Speaker 46 type tirade onto you, is that how you accurately pronounce his name?

Speaker 31 I don't know. It was

Speaker 31 from the filmmaker who dare not speak his name.

Speaker 43 It was from a Woody Allen movie.

Speaker 31 I think it was in the most problematic movie, Manhattan, when he's with Diane Keaton and some obnoxious person says Van, or I think it's Diane Keaton, says Van Gogh, and he's, you know, he's incense.

Speaker 31 He's like, Van Gogh, like how pretentious.

Speaker 28 So, okay, so instead we're just going to go with Van Gogh like everybody else, right?

Speaker 21 Yeah, sure.

Speaker 31 Okay.

Speaker 43 And we can cut all that out if we want to don't even want to talk about Woody Allen.

Speaker 71 That's fine. Sure, sure.

Speaker 10 I hear you.

Speaker 68 So

Speaker 70 Van Gogh was most,

Speaker 28 he was just such a sad, tragic figure.

Speaker 29 I feel for this guy so much after learning more about him.

Speaker 28 We should do an entire podcast on him if you ask me.

Speaker 21 Agreed.

Speaker 27 But instead, here we're going to talk about his death because there is a mystery surrounding his death.

Speaker 57 He's very famous for having cut off his ear.

Speaker 27 He definitely did that.

Speaker 63 And I had always learned that he did it to impress a sex worker who he was enamored with.

Speaker 64 And he definitely did give her his ear after he cut it off, but that's not why he cut it off.

Speaker 24 He cut it off in a fit of angst, basically, after having an argument with his friend Paul Gauguin, who he was living with in Arles, in the south of France.

Speaker 29 and he said well i'm gonna

Speaker 28 make some sort of lemonade out of this lemon i just gave myself and he took it to uh his uh i guess

Speaker 31 hopeful girlfriend and i believe she was not that impressed with it yeah so he suffered from definitely depression there is speculation that he had bipolar disorder yeah i saw that too uh was um you know just sort of long-suffering as an artist he didn't he only sold one painting before he died in 1890 at the age of 37.

Speaker 31 And

Speaker 31 the story goes is that he shot himself in the chest with a revolver.

Speaker 4 But it gets a little more complicated than that.

Speaker 31 And in what year was the book? In 2011, there was a book written called Van Gogh, Colon, the Life, written by Stephen, I'm going to say Maifa. Okay.

Speaker 8 And Gregory White Smith.

Speaker 31 And it seems like they sort of launched this idea, or at least really put it in the public forefront, that he was actually killed almost certainly accidentally by one of two boys, a younger gentleman that he was hanging out with that day.

Speaker 63 Right.

Speaker 71 So here's the thing. Like

Speaker 48 there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that supports that theory that he was killed by two boys.

Speaker 38 I buy it.

Speaker 57 There's also, it's also circumstantially plausible that, you know, Van Gogh died by suicide as well.

Speaker 30 But even if you take his story and start digging into it, and the statements that he made, or supposedly made, apparently everything we know about it comes from the owner of the inn where he rented a room's 13-year-old daughter at the time, who was a witness to all this.

Speaker 48 But even if you take what he supposedly said, it still doesn't add up.

Speaker 67 That number one, he shot himself in the chest.

Speaker 28 And most importantly, that number two, the gun that he shot himself with could never be found.

Speaker 62 And instead

Speaker 67 of actually, you know, finishing the suicide, completing the suicide,

Speaker 28 he couldn't find the gun after he shot himself in the chest and just walked back to his room where he died after suffering 20 more hours.

Speaker 71 But still to the end, claiming that he had done this himself.

Speaker 44 Even if you take all that together, it seems like, no, there's something really fishy going on here.

Speaker 31 Yeah, so this bullet misses all of his internal organs, very improbably, because it deflected off his rib cage.

Speaker 31 And he walked, like you said, to the doctor, who they didn't have a surgeon on duty, so they couldn't remove the bullet.

Speaker 31 He lived a total of 30 hours after the shot and died of infection, got to talk with his brother, you know, was speaking to people.

Speaker 31 So he had every opportunity to say that these two boys that I was hanging out with that I was drinking, and I say boys, I think they were maybe late teens, early 20s.

Speaker 35 No, they were 16.

Speaker 31 oh okay i saw early 20s and another thing oh yeah uh but you know hanging out getting drunk with them um one of these boys uh renee secretant

Speaker 31 had a gun that apparently misfired a lot and he liked playing with this thing he liked to play cowboy supposedly he did

Speaker 31 And so it all just seems, and even his statement, he, he said,

Speaker 31 he didn't say, I shot myself. He said, do not accuse anyone.
It was I who wanted to kill myself.

Speaker 21 Yeah.

Speaker 79 Which is very peculiar as well. Yeah.

Speaker 31 It's ambiguous, I think, as far as like, because the idea is that maybe he was accidentally shot. And then after he was shot, he was like, this is kind of what I wanted all along.

Speaker 31 You know, I've been heading down this road toward suicide. And then now it's just done for me.

Speaker 28 So what seems to have happened is that this gun, possibly that it wasn't actually murder or any kind of premeditated murder, more like a manslaughter where Renee and his brother, Gaston, were messing around

Speaker 68 and accidentally

Speaker 57 basically

Speaker 57 he had seen a Wild Bill Cody Wild West show the year before and became obsessed with it.

Speaker 28 So that's what he was doing with the gun and playing cowboy.

Speaker 33 And that they had accidentally shot him with this gun that was kind of, you know, known to misfire.

Speaker 62 So

Speaker 71 the thing was that the gun was never found.

Speaker 30 Rene went back to school like right after that, which was still in the middle of summer break from what I saw.

Speaker 68 And

Speaker 71 the town seems to have circled the wagons around

Speaker 54 these boys because, you know, Van Gogh was an outsider.

Speaker 58 He was not very well thought of.

Speaker 42 He used to get really drunk and argue with the locals in the cafe and everything, like basically every night.

Speaker 37 And these boys came from like a good, well-to-do family.

Speaker 48 So for many many years, like that was just the thing, like, like it just happened.

Speaker 38 And then slowly, little by little, it seems to have trickled out some support for this idea.

Speaker 46 Like, no, like, Van Gogh wasn't anywhere near this field.

Speaker 28 He said that he had shot himself in. He was actually on the road to the Secretan's house.

Speaker 60 And then finally, years later, Renee Secretan said that, you know, he it probably was his gun and that Van Gogh had somehow gotten a hold of it.

Speaker 65 It seems likely that he was shot by them, whether accident or not.

Speaker 31 Yeah, and these two authors, they put forth some other circumstantial evidence, like that the bullet went in at a weird angle that would not have been the angle if you shot yourself in the chest,

Speaker 31 that his more recent works were a little more upbeat and a little more positive, and that he was not in that kind of mindset at the time, and that he had recently even written his thoughts about suicide, that he thought it was sinful and immoral.

Speaker 31 And so they sort of use all this as evidence that he would not have done it himself and that it was, you know, they believe it was an accident.

Speaker 31 His last words, very sad, were the sadness will last forever. He spoke to his brother, which that's tough.

Speaker 38 Yeah, it is.

Speaker 28 I really do want to do an episode on him.

Speaker 31 And I think Sekhartan came out in the 50s even and denied it, right?

Speaker 39 Like finally, once and for all.

Speaker 38 He did. He did, but

Speaker 64 he also said that it probably was his gun and that somehow Van Gogh had gotten it.

Speaker 21 Right, but hey, that ain't my fault.

Speaker 40 No, but to also to backpedal and be like, it probably was my gun, because that was another thing.

Speaker 54 Everybody's like, where did Van Gogh get a gun?

Speaker 26 Van Gogh didn't have a gun.

Speaker 28 No, and no one would have given Van Gogh a gun.

Speaker 24 He was the guy who got drunk every night and had cut off his ear before.

Speaker 62 That was like,

Speaker 28 no one in town would have given him a gun.

Speaker 73 So

Speaker 42 the fact that he even admitted that it was his gun is

Speaker 24 probably as close as Renee Sercaton ever came to confessing publicly about it, you know.

Speaker 31 Yeah, and it makes sense what he said was, do not accuse anyone. Like, that really seems like he's trying to cover for these kids that he didn't want to get in trouble.

Speaker 28 Yeah, because if he wanted to die, but was also he didn't want to die by his own hand, like, this is kind of a lucky gift in a very strange way, you know?

Speaker 26 Yeah.

Speaker 31 I'm going to that

Speaker 31 immersive Van Gogh thing in

Speaker 38 July.

Speaker 38 Where is that?

Speaker 31 It is here in atlanta it's at the pullman yards uh oh yeah over in kirkwood where they're

Speaker 31 shoot like every movie in atlanta shoots there right yeah uh so yeah it's supposed to be pretty cool it's very very neat sounds neat i mean like basically they just make the stars come out whenever you come in and i think so i think you sit in this yellow chair i think that's the deal i think you go in and you are surrounded by projected art in different ways

Speaker 25 from what i can get oh that's all i got to check check that out, man. Thanks for telling me about it.

Speaker 31 Yeah, it looks kind of cool.

Speaker 10 All right, Chuck, you want to finish out talking about Hitler?

Speaker 6 Don't you mean Hilter?

Speaker 21 Did you notice? In there is Hilter?

Speaker 28 Oh, my gosh, yes, in the headline.

Speaker 45 In the headline, Did Hilter really do these paintings?

Speaker 21 Do these paintings?

Speaker 21 Who wrote that?

Speaker 21 I feel bad, but like,

Speaker 18 did Hilter really do these paintings?

Speaker 21 That's great.

Speaker 53 Oh, yeah, he did them.

Speaker 38 Yeah, Hilter did these paintings.

Speaker 27 So we're talking not about Hilter, but about Hitler, Adolf Hitler in particular.

Speaker 63 And as everybody knows, Hitler was a frustrated artist.

Speaker 21 Yeah, big time.

Speaker 24 You know, people have made a lot of hay about how possibly the world would be a totally different place had he been accepted into the Vienna Academy of Arts.

Speaker 71 And he came, well, I don't want to say he came close, but he made two different attempts in one year to be accepted.

Speaker 46 And they basically looked at his stuff and said,

Speaker 21 Look, man,

Speaker 59 you have the skill of a draftsman.

Speaker 57 Maybe you should go into architecture.

Speaker 26 Like, but you're not going to be an artist.

Speaker 50 And he said, architecture?

Speaker 38 That was a direct quote.

Speaker 74 But this was a huge deal for him.

Speaker 71 I think I read in Mein Kampf.

Speaker 57 I haven't read Mein Kampf, but I read an article by somebody who read Mein Kampf and said that he said it was like a bolt from the blue.

Speaker 68 And that,

Speaker 37 you know, he was pursuing this dream that his father would like beat him out of.

Speaker 64 Like his father enrolled him in a technical school.

Speaker 28 He's like, no son of mine is going to be an artist.

Speaker 67 He would beat him up whenever

Speaker 27 he brought the idea up.

Speaker 27 And so finally, after his father died, and then he nursed his ailing mother until she died, he got up the gumption to like go and enroll in art school.

Speaker 37 And apparently, he, being Hitler, who I guess had been fairly

Speaker 58 bonkers his whole life, just knew that he was destined to become an artist.

Speaker 38 So the idea that he was rebuffed not once, but twice by this Vienna school, these people were like

Speaker 54 the guardians of what is art and what is not.

Speaker 57 And they were telling him, what you got is not.

Speaker 49 That was a huge deal to him.

Speaker 31 It was a very big deal. And it's funny, it's just now occurring to me that there was sort of a similar thing with Manson's rejection as a musician

Speaker 31 by the music industry.

Speaker 31 I never really kind of really thought of that parallel, but in 1909,

Speaker 31 Hitler is traipsing around Vienna and he is selling watercolors copied from postcards to tourists. So

Speaker 31 if you've ever traveled to Europe, he was one of those guys that was down by the river, the riverbank. In a van.
Yeah, in a van selling these and literally copied from postcards.

Speaker 5 So he did that for a little while, made a little bit of money.

Speaker 31 Because, you know, if you look at his art, it's way better than I could do. It's, you know, it's okay.
But like modern,

Speaker 31 and it's, it's hard to tell if modern art critics like

Speaker 31 so much goes into looking at a Hitler painting and reviewing it.

Speaker 39 Like it's really hard to kind of separate those things.

Speaker 31 But the general thought is, is that he had

Speaker 31 nothing exceptional about him at all. It was, he was the kind of artist that would sell stuff down by the river to tourists.

Speaker 39 He was, they were fine. He was capable, but they were copycat paintings.

Speaker 5 He was copying things.

Speaker 31 He had no point of view.

Speaker 31 He did this in 1913 as well in Munich, painting Munich cityscapes and landscapes and selling them to tourists. And then in 1914, got hauled in by the police,

Speaker 31 of all things, for failing to register for the military.

Speaker 25 Yeah.

Speaker 59 And then

Speaker 66 he went down and registered, and then they gave him a

Speaker 29 physical exam, and he failed it.

Speaker 65 They said he was too weak to fire a weapon. Yeah.

Speaker 57 So they arrested him so that they could humiliate him, basically.

Speaker 57 And then when World War I came around, he enlisted and they say, we need everybody we can get.

Speaker 28 Come on in.

Speaker 21 And he actually did that. That's right.

Speaker 59 Yeah. Even Hilter

Speaker 42 did this army thing.

Speaker 35 So when he rose to power in Germany, one of the things he did was he had his works collected and destroyed.

Speaker 42 I'm not exactly sure what the thinking was behind that.

Speaker 54 I guess because he knew it wasn't very good

Speaker 28 and he needed to focus on his political career rather than his artistic career or have everybody else focus on it.

Speaker 28 But to no avail, because I saw a 1936 critic, or a critic wrote in 1936 that his style was prosaic, utterly devoid of rhythm, color, feeling, or spiritualism.

Speaker 48 And this was before he, or I'm sorry, or spiritual imagination.

Speaker 30 And this was before he had really become an obvious threat.

Speaker 35 This is 1936.

Speaker 44 So even back then,

Speaker 36 even without hindsight, people thought his stuff wasn't very good.

Speaker 79 So yeah, he had his stuff destroyed.

Speaker 33 And that's,

Speaker 54 it was kind of a footnote for a very long time that he was an artist and no one really cared after his death.

Speaker 31 Yeah, I mean, and that was one of the major reasons that he was such an art plunderer during the war and stole as much art as he could from real famous artists and famous paintings because he had all this backstory as a failed artist.

Speaker 31 And it was interesting. I did see that like one of his major,

Speaker 31 I mean, because he wasn't an utter failure at first. He had a backer early on, I think, who was a Jewish man.

Speaker 55 Yeah, Morgenstern.

Speaker 43 Yeah, which was really interesting.

Speaker 31 And there was, I don't know, man, there's a lot of speculation about

Speaker 31 what that all meant to him.

Speaker 31 And like people try and draw parallels to like some of the paintings i saw i mean some of it feels like a stretch definitely like the

Speaker 31 you know the the cold uh the cold streets of munich like were painted like clearly with a future cleansing in mind to make it look like this and it's a stretch yeah some of that stuff seems like a stretch but you could definitely read into the backstory at least i think with some accuracy Yeah, and even if like you can't necessarily suss out like the future from his paintings, you can make a pretty strong case that his artistic ambitions being utterly crushed

Speaker 24 had some sort of driving force or impact on his psyche at the very least.

Speaker 79 Sure.

Speaker 42 That

Speaker 42 and

Speaker 42 his later political career and dictatorship did not exist in a vacuum.

Speaker 37 I don't think you can possibly make the case that they were just unrelated in any way.

Speaker 31 No, I think any sociopath, you can look at their past and see the dots connected, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 31 So like you said, there was

Speaker 31 this kind of just was the deal for a long time.

Speaker 31 And then like anything else, like people wanting to get original Charles Manson music reels, in the early late 90s, early 2000s, there was a market for Hitler's work.

Speaker 31 I think in 2009, a British auction house, someone paid $150,000 for 15 early sketches and watercolors, including a self-portrait.

Speaker 31 And then in 2015, some unnamed investors paid $450,000 for a set of watercolors. I think there were 12 or 13

Speaker 31 that survived.

Speaker 21 Yeah, the problem is because he didn't have a style of his own, that he was copying postcards, that he didn't have any formal training,

Speaker 23 and that

Speaker 58 he lacked a lot of creativity or any creativity, it seems like.

Speaker 54 It's really hard to say this is a Hitler and this is a fake.

Speaker 65 And there's developed a really

Speaker 29 enormous market of fakes because anybody who's like a passingly good

Speaker 28 artist in watercolors of streetscapes and landscapes could drum up something and be like, this is a Hitler.

Speaker 42 And it would be really difficult to say, yes, it is or no, it's not.

Speaker 31 Yeah, what kind of a garbage human do you have to be to think, I'll do Hitler forgeries and try and sell them to garbage humans that want to collect them.

Speaker 54 Yeah, and it's not like these are even fetching like $10 million a piece.

Speaker 46 We're talking like you might get $10,000 for it for your Hitler forgery.

Speaker 31 Unbelievable. Wow.
But totally believable.

Speaker 29 So that's the mystery of the Hitler paintings. Did he do this?

Speaker 57 Yeah, did he do those paintings?

Speaker 59 You got anything else?

Speaker 47 I got nothing else. That was a good five.

Speaker 31 I think we have committed to doing a robust episode on the Gardner Museum heist because that's a good one and that was on this list and way underplayed.

Speaker 38 For sure.

Speaker 27 So keep an ear out for that, everybody.

Speaker 42 And since I said keep an ear out for that,

Speaker 28 I think it's time for listener mail.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I'm going to call this

Speaker 31 middle names. Because we had a little discussion in our John Muir episode about how Emily and I and our friends, Justin and Melissa, one night were going by our middle names as a joke.

Speaker 31 And I had the theory that you have no emotional connection to your middle name if you don't have a reaction when you hear it said out loud. And I just meant sort of the non-dominant name.

Speaker 39 It didn't necessarily mean middle names because my brother goes by his middle name.

Speaker 31 Scott is his middle name and some people do that.

Speaker 43 It's a thing.

Speaker 5 And certainly Amy does.

Speaker 43 She said, I was listening to the show.

Speaker 31 And at the end, you were chatting about using middle names and how you don't have an emotional connection when you hear it.

Speaker 31 I have an interesting situation that everyone, everyone in my family uses their middle names. So I've always been called Amy ever since I was born, but my first name is Helen.

Speaker 31 This causes an interesting situation at airports and doctors' appointments where they refer to me as Helen, and I always have to remember that they're talking to me.

Speaker 4 Big fan of the show.

Speaker 31 Kept me curious. My curious spirit satisfied over the last three or four years.

Speaker 39 And it's such a comfort knowing there's always another episode to listen to.

Speaker 31 Best wishes from the UK. They're always so nice.

Speaker 72 And that is from Amy.

Speaker 16 Helen Amy.

Speaker 28 Thanks, Helen, Amy.

Speaker 58 We'll just call her Amy, as is customary.

Speaker 31 Yeah, because we say Helen, she's like, who?

Speaker 69 Wow, I can't wait until they read my listener mail, says Amy.

Speaker 25 If you want to be like Amy and get in touch with us for whatever reason, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast at iHeartRadio.com.

Speaker 1 Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Speaker 2 Support for the show today comes from Public.com.

Speaker 4 You're thoughtful about where your money goes.

Speaker 5 You've got core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic options plays on the side.

Speaker 8 The point is, you're engaged with your investments, and Public gets that.

Speaker 9 Yeah, that's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can put together a multi-asset portfolio for the long haul.

Speaker 10 Stocks, bonds, options, crypto, it's all there.

Speaker 11 Plus an industry-leading 3.6% APY high-yield cash account.

Speaker 14 Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously.

Speaker 17 Go to public.com slash SYSK and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio.

Speaker 3 That's public.com/slash SYSK.

Speaker 19 Paid for by Public Investing. All investing involves risk of loss, including loss of principal.
Brokerage services for U.S.

Speaker 19 listed registered securities, options, and bonds in a self-directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc., member FINRA, and SIPC. CryptoTrading provided by ZeroHash.

Speaker 19 Complete disclosures available at public.com/slash disclosures.

Speaker 12 Living with a rare autoimmune condition comes with challenges, but also incredible strength, especially for those living with conditions like myasthenia gravis or MG and chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, otherwise known as CIDP.

Speaker 12 Finding empowerment in the community is critical.

Speaker 12 Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production, in partnership with Argenix, explores people discovering strength in the most unexpected places.

Speaker 12 Listen to Untold Stories on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 12 Here with one last reminder to keep you off the naughty list this holiday season, stuff your stockings, your pantry, your gift closet, anywhere you can with Duracell batteries.

Speaker 12 Because there's nothing worse than opening a gift on Christmas morning and realizing you don't have batteries for it.

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Speaker 12 So, stock up on your double A's and your triple A's so you'll be A-O-K for the holidays. Choose the only battery brand with power boost ingredients.
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