12. The Televangelist (Jim Bakker)

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Speaker 2 You got cancer of the stomach?

Speaker 2 Are you ready for God to burn that cancer out?

Speaker 2 Here it goes in the mighty

Speaker 4 devil. Back off.

Speaker 4 Back off, devil.

Speaker 4 Hallelujah!

Speaker 4 Hallelujah!

Speaker 5 In the 1980s, televangelism was reaching its peak, and Reverend Peter Popoff was one of the best.

Speaker 5 He traveled from town to town, preaching to packed auditoriums and performing miracle healing acts where he would select random members of the live audience, channel the Spirit of God, and cure them of their ailments.

Speaker 5 God told me,

Speaker 6 he said, you smite that cancer with your fist.

Speaker 5 Cancer, arthritis, arthritis, diabetes, thyroid problems. Popov could cure it all with just the shake of a fist or a pat on the head.

Speaker 5 People watched in amazement as he would snatch the cane from an old lady's hand, throw it onto the stage, and demand her to walk. And so she would, and the crowd would go wild.

Speaker 7 She came in on the cane.

Speaker 7 But bless God, she's not on that cane anymore.

Speaker 7 Hallelujah, wave that cane around, Lee, just to make the devil. How many of you know that just burns the devil up?

Speaker 5 At one point, Peter Popoff was performing these miraculous feats in front of millions of people on more than 90 television channels and radio stations across the country.

Speaker 5 He was collecting more than half a million dollars per month from the astonished onlookers willing to support the cause and the hopelessly destitute searching for a miracle.

Speaker 5 Popoff's new methods afforded him a lifestyle that was a far cry from his meager beginnings as the son of a German preacher, but it wasn't entirely out of character for the man he claimed to be.

Speaker 5 In his 1980 memoir, Thor tells of how he had dropped styrofoam-wrapped Bibles into the Black Sea in hopes that they would wash up on communist shores,

Speaker 5 and how he would use balloons to deliver gospel pamphlets from the banks of Finland to the people in the Soviet Union.

Speaker 5 He also tells a story of how people in Eastern Europe would walk 150 miles just to hear him preach.

Speaker 5 Clearly, Peter Popoff is not a man afraid to exaggerate.

Speaker 5 But if somehow, some way, he truly has the gift to heal people, maybe we should just let it slide.

Speaker 5 You really believe you're healed? Yes, thank you.

Speaker 5 You think your cancers are gone now?

Speaker 9 Yes, I believe that, because God never lies in withstanding his word.

Speaker 9 Praise the Lord.

Speaker 5 In 1986, Peter Popoff's ability to heal caught the attention of a magician named James Randy.

Speaker 5 Randy was a well-known skeptic who, in the previous decade, had exposed a mind-reading, spoon-bending psychic named Yuri Geller as a fraud.

Speaker 5 Randy debunked Geller's telekinetic powers on national television, revealing the feats to be nothing more than simple illusions, and he had a hunch that Peter Popoff's healing powers were no different.

Speaker 5 James Randy began hanging around Peter Popoff's live events, hoping to gain some insight into the preacher's mystique and the people who came to bear witness.

Speaker 5 In a piece he wrote for Wired magazine, Randy recalls a heartbreaking scene of one family who had driven eight hours to attend one of Peter Popoff's events.

Speaker 5 The family family was hoping to meet the Reverend and ask that he heal their disabled son who was unable to walk.

Speaker 5 Randy describes watching security deny entry to the family because as Randy theorizes, the son was not the kind of disabled person who could demonstrate even the slightest sign of recovery, unlike the obvious plants who were routinely chosen to participate.

Speaker 5 So they were turned away and barred entry from the event again.

Speaker 5 This was the fifth pop-off event that the family had tried to attend, and it would be their last, because they had spent every last dollar following Peter Pop-off around the country trying to receive a miracle for their son.

Speaker 5 James Randy remembers seeing the family return to their beat-up car, with tears streaming down their faces, with their defeated son following closely behind on his worn-out crutches.

Speaker 5 It was that scene that confirmed James Randy's suspicions. Peter Pop-off was a fraud, and he came up with an idea on how to prove it.

Speaker 5 At a later pop-off revival event, James Randy and his team snuck into the venue carrying a radio scanner and a tape recorder. They listened as Pop-Off launched into his act.

Speaker 5 He had received word from the Heavenly Spirit that there was a woman in the audience in need of help.

Speaker 5 When the radio scanner was powered on, James Randy switched through the frequencies until he heard a voice. But it wasn't the voice of God.

Speaker 10 Hello, Petey. Can you hear me? If you can't, you're in trouble.

Speaker 7 Is it John?

Speaker 10 Dearly Johnson.

Speaker 10 She's about to get rid of the walker.

Speaker 2 You want to get rid of this walker, sister?

Speaker 5 Oh, Glory.

Speaker 2 How long have you been walking on that walk?

Speaker 5 About three years.

Speaker 12 Three years.

Speaker 10 She lives at 1627 10th Street.

Speaker 2 1627 10th Street?

Speaker 11 Is that right? Is that right?

Speaker 10 She has has arthritis forever.

Speaker 2 Burning this arthritis right out of your body.

Speaker 2 Take a few steps just to make the devil mad.

Speaker 7 Hallelujah.

Speaker 2 That's it. Just move around a little bit.
There she goes. Just walk with me.
Oh, glory to God. She's not going to need that walker anymore.

Speaker 7 God's just putting new strength, new health.

Speaker 2 Burning that arthritis out of her body.

Speaker 11 Just keep going. Hallelujah.

Speaker 5 That voice belongs to Liz Popoff, Peter's wife.

Speaker 5 Peter's wearing a tiny radio receiver in his ear, and Liz is feeding him information from the prayer cards that the congregation filled out before taking their seats.

Speaker 5 The random names delivered straight from God's mouth to Popoff's ears weren't random at all. This was not divine intervention, just devious, unabashed deception.
And James Randy had it all on tape.

Speaker 5 A tape which he eventually played for the world to see on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.

Speaker 5 Popoff defended himself by claiming that he was only wearing the earpiece because he was filming for television, and that it's typical for a host of a TV show to wear one.

Speaker 5 But his reasoning fell on deaf ears. Public opinion had soured.
His organization filed for bankruptcy, and about a year later, Peter Popoff disappeared.

Speaker 4 Reverend Peter Popoff wants you to know that God can reverse every negative verdict in your life. You don't have to live a life sentence of lack and defeat.

Speaker 4 You can be free to enjoy all of God's richest blessings. That's why he wants to send you your free packet of Miracle Springwater, your point of contact for the miracle you need.

Speaker 4 Now in a larger size, call the number on your screen today and get your free packet of Miracle Springwater.

Speaker 4 Isn't it amazing to see what God is doing?

Speaker 5 In the past decade, if you've ever spent a sleepless night on the couch, mindlessly flipping through channel after channel of late-night television infomercials, you've probably come across Reverend Peter Popoff hawking his wares.

Speaker 5 He's back, peddling everything from revelation stones to gold-colored ribbon bracelets to essential oils, all of which have been anointed by Popoff himself, blessed by God, and endowed with the power to straighten a crooked spine or erase a mountain of debt.

Speaker 5 And Peter Popoff wants to share these gifts with you.

Speaker 14 If If you'll call during this program, I want to send you this beautiful polished hue aluminum oil vial keychain. It's guaranteed leak-proof.

Speaker 14 It's filled with the most delightfully fragrant anointing oil, mixed in exact biblical proportions. Most of all, I've prayed over this oil.
I've anointed it and prayed over it.

Speaker 14 And as you use it, you're going to sense that powerful anointing.

Speaker 15 As you use it, you're going to

Speaker 5 and the best part, it's free, but not really. In exchange for a clean bill of health and unending riches, Popoff asks for a, quote, gift of love, faith, and obedience to God.

Speaker 5 Otherwise known as a donation. In fact, the donation is actually a requirement if you want the prosperity and healing powers to work.

Speaker 5 Popoff claims that if a donation is not received, Jesus will revoke his blessings like some kind of spiritual repo man.

Speaker 5 Recently, Peter Popoff has been buying airtime to promote a product called Miracle Spring Water, which he claims is bottled from a spring in southern Russia that the Christians drank from after the nuclear accident in Chernobyl.

Speaker 5 According to Popoff, those that ingested the water from the spring were protected from the fallout. None of them died or suffered any illness as a result of the radioactive contamination.

Speaker 5 And if you drink the water from that same spring, you too will be blessed. All of your dreams will come true.
You can get rid of that wheelchair and start walking again.

Speaker 5 And you'll finally finally be able to afford that new car that you've had your eye on. And that drug addiction, that will become a thing of the past.

Speaker 5 All you have to do is pick up the phone, give Reverend Popoff a call, and send him $19.

Speaker 16 Four years ago, I sent and seen you on TV and I sent for your water and I drank your water. God took care of all.
I don't take no medication no more.

Speaker 4 And what about your cocaine addiction?

Speaker 16 I don't even smoke cocaine no more. Four-year training.

Speaker 5 But wait, before you dial that number, you might want to hear this.

Speaker 5 A former donations processor who worked for Peter Popov, named Crystal Sanchez, unveiled the true origin of the Miracle Water in her 2013 book titled The Real Truth Behind People United for Christ.

Speaker 5 That's the name of the organization that Popoff owns and operates. According to Sanchez, the Miracle Spring Water does not originate from a magical spring somewhere in Russia.

Speaker 5 No, the Miracle Spring Water originates from Costco.

Speaker 5 Sanchez knows this because she worked at Popoff's organization for almost five years and she witnessed Popov's daughter make the trip to Costco every week.

Speaker 5 The Miracle Spring Water is nothing more than Nestle-owned Poland Spring brand ordinary bottled water, which is repackaged into plastic pouches and shipped to the most vulnerable members of our society in exchange for their hard-earned dollars.

Speaker 5 And those hard-earned dollars come pouring in.

Speaker 5 Crystal Sanchez recalls counting as much as $30,000 in one day, and that's just what she counted by herself. She worked in a room with 20 other donation processors who were tallying similar amounts.

Speaker 5 Sanchez describes removing money and gold and anything else of value from envelopes, sorting it by type, and discarding the rest.

Speaker 5 Anything that wasn't valuable was shredded without hesitation, including handwritten pleas for help, prayer requests, and the occasional bag of dog shit.

Speaker 5 In 2006, Peter Popoff and the People United for Christ were generating more than $35 million a year.

Speaker 5 He drives around in a Bentley, which he parks at his $4.5 million home in Bradbury, California, a home which is conveniently owned by the church, resulting in Popoff not paying a dime in taxes.

Speaker 5 Popoff still holds revivals all across America, but they aren't publicly advertised. Only those on his mailing list are given notice when he's coming to a town near them.

Speaker 5 This ensures that the crowd will be full of believers, full of easy money, and the skeptics will be left out in the cold.

Speaker 5 Popoff arrives to these towns with his wife and kids in tow and performs the same old tired act, except now he relies on his magical products more than his magical hands.

Speaker 17 I took your holy water and I put it in my son's shoes. I put it in his bed.
I put it on his pillow and my son joined the church and he got saved and he's still in the church.

Speaker 17 And then I got $3,800 and new furniture.

Speaker 5 If you were to attend one of Popoff's events, you would hear testimonial after testimonial of people drinking magic water and randomly receiving a check in the mail.

Speaker 5 And believe it or not, those checks are real. Pop-off believers actually do receive money in the mail because Pop-Off is the one sending it to them.
You got to spend money to make money.

Speaker 5 That's the cost of doing business. And it's not like his audience doesn't know about his previous scandal.
They know, but they forgive him.

Speaker 5 Forgiveness has always been a major tenet of Christianity, a tenet that's been routinely abused by charlatans and manipulators to get right back into the good graces of audiences and subsequently right back into their wallets.

Speaker 5 It's a tenant that's been routinely abused by hypocrites and liars to pick the pockets of those who have nothing there to begin with. And the worst part about it, it's not illegal.

Speaker 5 Unless you get greedy, which is exactly what happened to Reverend Jim Baker.

Speaker 5 A false prophet in search of prophets, falls from grace as a result of his involvement in fraudulent activities and multiple sex scandals. On this episode of Swindled,

Speaker 10 they bribed government officials

Speaker 10 to clear violations of decades state law earlier in the United States.

Speaker 10 Dumping up the table records to hide

Speaker 10 his courts

Speaker 5 in the control of some kind of swindler.

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Speaker 8 From this moment on,

Speaker 8 the PTL television network plans to broadcast television and radio non-stop

Speaker 8 24 hours a day until the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Speaker 5 In less than 10 years, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker went from college dropouts to owning their own television network.

Speaker 5 The couple met at a Bible college in Minneapolis in 1960, got married, and began traveling the country as Pentecostal evangelical preachers.

Speaker 5 A life that seemed to suit them well. Tammy had grown up poor with seven brothers and sisters, a single mother, and no running water.
She was used to getting by with very little.

Speaker 5 And Jim, he enjoyed the entertainment aspect of preaching. He liked to put on a show.
As As a teenager, he would produce variety show-style fundraisers and DJ the high school dances.

Speaker 5 In 1965, the Bakers' travels landed them in Virginia, where they joined Pat Robinson's Christian Broadcasting Network to host a puppet show for children.

Speaker 5 Jim's talent and ability to fundraise were immediately recognized.

Speaker 8 Praise God, $1,000.

Speaker 8 Here's another one. First time, $5 a month.
Here's another one for $15 a month. And another one here for $10 a month.
We praise God. I can hear phones ringing.
We have almost 100 phones busy.

Speaker 8 Come on, let's ring them off.

Speaker 5 The success of the puppet show led to Jim being hand-picked to host CBN's primetime talk show called the 700 Club.

Speaker 5 Jim hosted the show for about five years, but after repeated disagreements with network owner Pat Robertson, Jim resigned from his duties. and he and Tammy packed their bags and headed for Hollywood.

Speaker 5 A year later, in 1973, the couple launched their own version of the 700 Club called the Praise the Lord or PTL Club, which included Jim and Tammy's daily religious talk show.

Speaker 5 The show debuted on Channel 46 in Los Angeles, and in less than two years, almost 50 television networks nationwide were broadcasting the show.

Speaker 5 The PTL Club was exploding in popularity.

Speaker 5 You're watching PTL,

Speaker 5 the Inspirational Network.

Speaker 5 By 1978, less than five years after the show's debut, the PTL Club was collecting more than $120 million a year from its 13 million dedicated viewers.

Speaker 5 This rapid growth allowed the Bakers to expand their budding Christian entertainment empire, and they launched their own PTL satellite network, which broadcasted 16 hours of new television every week.

Speaker 5 and they built a brand new headquarters called Heritage Village on 2,500 acres of property in North Carolina.

Speaker 5 PTL immediately became the second largest employer in Charlotte, employing almost 3,000 people.

Speaker 5 The rapid growth of PTL also allowed Jim and Tammy Faye to live an extravagant lifestyle. The couple owned matching Rolls-Royce's.

Speaker 5 Tammy alone spent thousands and thousands of dollars on clothes, and they traveled by private jet with an entourage to their various vacation homes, which included a $375,000 condo in Florida, where the bakers had reportedly stayed for less than three weeks in total.

Speaker 5 Even though it was obvious to everyone around them that the bakers were living a life of excess, Jim would routinely take to the airwaves to assure PTL's viewers that any profit generated by the network would be reinvested to spread the word of God.

Speaker 8 Well, the PTL television network is growing every single day, and I believe God has established this network as a base to reach the world.

Speaker 8 I believe every penny that comes in over and above the actual minimum cost to keep us on the air and the budget needs to go to world evangelism and world missions.

Speaker 21 Praise God.

Speaker 5 But the hundreds of millions of dollars that PTL was generating would not be enough to cover the cost of implementing Jim Baker's ultimate vision, a vision that would ultimately lead to his downfall.

Speaker 22 No matter where you're from or what you like to do, if you're looking for fun, excitement, or just relaxation, ask somebody how to get to Heritage USA.

Speaker 22 Heritage USA?

Speaker 5 In 1978, Jim Baker unveiled his plans to build a premier destination spot for Christians called Heritage USA.

Speaker 5 It would be a Christian-themed amusement and water park with a residential community and hotels, motels, and campgrounds.

Speaker 5 It would be built in Fort Mill, South Carolina, on 2,300 acres with a total projected cost of $25 million.

Speaker 5 $25 million that Jim Baker's nearly billion-dollar organization apparently could not afford. without some help from his loyal viewers.

Speaker 5 He sent a letter to past donors detailing his plight to fund the construction of his dream. He offered what he called lifetime partnerships to 25,000 people in exchange for a $1,000 donation.

Speaker 5 These lifetime partners would receive guarantees of up to three nights of free lodging at Heritage USA every single year for the rest of their lives, which seems a bit overly generous, but Jim Baker was desperate, or so he claimed.

Speaker 5 Part of the letter read, quote, unless God performs a financial miracle, this could be the last last letter you will receive from me.

Speaker 5 Tammy and I are giving every penny of our life savings to PTL, end quote.

Speaker 5 Every penny, huh? That's interesting. Because the same week that that letter was sent out, unbeknownst to his audience, Jill Baker had purchased a brand new house boat for $30,000.

Speaker 5 But in a matter of days, all 25,000 lifetime partnerships had been purchased, and the Heritage USA project was fully funded. Or was it?

Speaker 8 God doesn't doesn't want us to turn back now. We've come too far by faith.

Speaker 8 $24 million has already been paid out there for the greatest Christian center, retreat center, conference center. Never, anything like it ever been built in history.
Now, what do you do?

Speaker 10 Well, when in doubt,

Speaker 8 build something more.

Speaker 8 Well, 30,000 more lifetime members will bring in 30 million dollars.

Speaker 8 The 9 million we need, let's just round it out because my math is not real good. We'll just round it $10 million to finish the grand.

Speaker 11 We've come this far by faith.

Speaker 8 Why can't we finish it and see a miracle in 30 days? Oh, hallelujah!

Speaker 5 Surprised by the response of the initial offer and ignoring advice from his council and business associates, Jim Baker announced announced that he decided to build an additional hotel at Heritage USA.

Speaker 5 He raised the additional $10 million easily, so he kept going, and he didn't stop until PTL had raised over $158 million for more than 150,000 people.

Speaker 5 Meanwhile, the local media had begun to scrutinize the Baker's fundraising and management tactics.

Speaker 5 In 1979, the Charlotte Observer published multiple stories questioning the funding or lack of funding of PTL's international commitments.

Speaker 5 Baker had promised to provide the audio and video equipment needed to create a TV station in Korea, and he raised 350 grand specifically for that project.

Speaker 5 There were similar promises made to Brazil and the Middle East, and Jim Baker never delivered on any of them.

Speaker 23 We found that he had said that $350,000 was sent overseas, when in fact we could find no trace that any of that had been sent overseas.

Speaker 23 That's what the FCC began investigating at first.

Speaker 5 These allegations got the attention of the Federal Communications Commission, who subpoenaed Baker for questioning at a closed hearing.

Speaker 5 The FCC had the power to revoke PTL's broadcasting license, and without a license, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker's money stream would dry up. Needless to say, this was a very serious matter.

Speaker 5 In response, Jim Baker accused the FCC of having an anti-religious agenda.

Speaker 8 What we want is what every American wants, a right to worship our God as we want to do.

Speaker 8 We do not want this church or any other church destroyed or intimidated by the government.

Speaker 5 And in order to protect America's freedom of religion and to help protect Jim Baker from the harassment inflicted upon him by the government.

Speaker 5 He held a telethon on his network and raised $22 million from his viewers.

Speaker 5 The closed hearings lasted weeks. Jim Baker spent a total of 11 days on the stand.

Speaker 5 Under cross-examination, the FCC reported that Baker's versions of events were contradicted 81 times, 36 of which were cases where he had contradicted himself.

Speaker 21 We found scores, perhaps hundreds of false statements under oath by Jim Baker. We found evidence

Speaker 21 of people going into the PTL counting room and scooping money out.

Speaker 19 Evidence that

Speaker 21 Reverend Baker and others had enriched themselves personally over or with money solicited for various religious purposes.

Speaker 5 Baker accused the FCC of trying to trap him into misspeaking.

Speaker 19 Today I spent, I'd guess, over six hours on stand.

Speaker 21 Some more areas were covered today in the hearings.

Speaker 18 Mainly the missionary projects.

Speaker 5 They

Speaker 19 talked about Korea.

Speaker 19 It would seem to me that we talked mainly about Korea,

Speaker 19 Asia for Christ. for much of the day.

Speaker 19 We just go from one thing to another, just hour after hour after hour after hour, of answering questions

Speaker 19 until

Speaker 19 it seems like they're trying to trick me, trying to get me to say something.

Speaker 19 And then after they've questioned all these things, and they throw a paper for me to verify, and it has the answer on it that they were trying to get me to state.

Speaker 5 Jim Baker ultimately ended up blaming PTL's failure to promptly and properly fulfill its overseas commitments on former missions director and PTL Vice President Robert Manzano.

Speaker 5 And even though he threw his friend under the bus, Baker at least felt a little bad about it.

Speaker 19 I did something today that I've never done before.

Speaker 19 I betrayed a Christian brother.

Speaker 19 Because the judge ordered me to.

Speaker 8 He killed me.

Speaker 5 I'll never.

Speaker 19 I will never publicly betray an enemy,

Speaker 19 let alone a friend.

Speaker 5 The hearings adjourned, and FCC Commissioner Larry Bernstein submitted a report that contained evidence of false testimony, misstatements and testimony, possible perjury, and a recommendation for public hearings.

Speaker 5 The report was sent to the desk of new FCC Chairman Mark Fowler, where it sat for weeks before being returned to Commissioner Bernstein with requested changes.

Speaker 5 In total, nine passages were revised, 134 sections were deleted entirely, and the entire report had become completely watered down.

Speaker 5 When it came time to vote on conducting public hearings on PTL, the commission voted no, with one commissioner changing her vote at the very last second, and Larry Bernstein resigned in disgust.

Speaker 5 He had a feeling that this was going to happen, considering Chairman Fowler had been appointed by Ronald Reagan, who had just been elected by relying on the support of American evangelicals, a sect seemingly willing to believe anything as long as it's what they wanted to hear.

Speaker 5 A sect who appeared to be immune to skepticism, and by all accounts, still are.

Speaker 5 Jim Baker escaped the FCC investigation scot-free, and he returned his attention to his true passion.

Speaker 13 Hello, everyone.

Speaker 5 No, not her.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's it. Although the construction of Heritage USA had not been completed, the park opened to the public and was attracting nearly 6 million visitors per year.

Speaker 5 Jim Baker was thrilled with the results and spent much of his time working on the project. Tammy Faye joked, quote, Heritage USA has become Jim's mistress.
I wish it were another woman.

Speaker 5 I could at least compete with that.

Speaker 5 Be careful what you wish for, Tammy Faye.

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Speaker 5 In 1981, another government agency came knocking on PTL's door. This time it was the IRS, and they wanted to perform an audit on Mr.
Baker's books.

Speaker 18 That's why an audit of Jim and Tammy, you know, if that's necessary, we'll have one.

Speaker 18 History will prove the Bakers were honest people.

Speaker 5 The audit revealed that over $13 million in revenue had incomplete accounting records, and that Jim Baker's salary was doubling every year, along with massive bonuses.

Speaker 5 When faced with the evidence, Baker wondered if maybe, quote, the devil got into the computer somehow.

Speaker 27 Well, we've paid millions of dollars in income tax. I don't know how they can get into tax evasion.

Speaker 5 But again, because of the Republican administration's close relationship with evangelical Christians, nothing happened. It would take over six years before any action was taken.

Speaker 5 And many surmise that the only reason any action was taken at all is because something happened that forced both Republicans and Christians to distance themselves from Jim Baker.

Speaker 5 In 1987, reports surface that Jim Baker and fellow preacher and colleague John Wesley Fletcher contacted a 21-year-old church secretary named Jessica Hahn on December 6, 1980.

Speaker 5 to hire her for a babysitting job in Florida.

Speaker 5 Baker and Fletcher paid for Hahn's flight from New York to Florida and met her at a hotel.

Speaker 5 The report states that while at the hotel, the two preachers drugged Jessica Han and raped her for 15 minutes.

Speaker 5 She was then forced to sign a statement denying the attack and was paid $265,000 in hush money from PTL's funds.

Speaker 5 Jim Baker admitted to the affair but denied the rape accusations. He claimed that the sex was consensual, and he was able to keep the story buried for almost seven years.

Speaker 5 Once the scandal became public, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker resigned from their positions at PTL and went on the air to announce their departure.

Speaker 5 Tammy and I are so very glad that we've been granted this opportunity to talk with you today.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 we want to say to you

Speaker 5 that we are so very, very sorry.

Speaker 12 People standing with us all over and saying, Jim, We do forgive you. We forgive Jim and Tammy of all of their sins.
And we're so thankful that God has forgiven us. We don't know what the future holds,

Speaker 12 but I can assure you Jim and Tammy someday will be helping people again because we must help people because God has helped us so very, very much.

Speaker 5 Two months later, Jim Baker was defrocked by the assemblies of God and the PTL ministry filed for bankruptcy.

Speaker 5 Other televangelists from around the country jockey to fill the vacuum that Baker's absence had created in the industry. Stepping out of the shadow of Jim Baker was a huge opportunity.

Speaker 5 And where there's opportunity, there's money to be made.

Speaker 5 One of the preachers who spoke out was Reverend Jimmy Swaggart, who claimed a moral superiority over Jim Baker by telling an interviewer that the only woman he had ever kissed was his wife.

Speaker 24 Then we got this soap opera that's being carried out live down in South Carolina, all under the name of God.

Speaker 24 And my business is preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm not in the amusement park business.

Speaker 26 I'm not in the

Speaker 24 live soap opera business. And I'm not in the water slide business.

Speaker 5 Less than a year later, Jimmy Swaggart was photographed standing next to a prostitute outside of room number seven at a cheap motel in New Orleans. The son of Marvin Gorman had taken the photographs.

Speaker 5 Marvin Gorman was a preacher whom Swaggart had exposed for having several extramarital affairs, affairs which led to Gorman's defrocking by the assemblies of God.

Speaker 5 Catching Swaggart in the act was Marvin Gorman's retribution.

Speaker 5 When the photos were released, the prostitute Deborah Murphy began to reveal details about her relationship with Jimmy Swaggart.

Speaker 5 She claimed to have seen the preacher over 20 times, with him paying her no more than $20 per session.

Speaker 5 She said her initial encounters with the preacher were very vanilla in nature. He would masturbate in the car in front of her or encourage her to do different poses while he watched.

Speaker 13 He would just, well, he'd more or less do the same thing. He'd just want to watch me pose, do different poses for him.

Speaker 13 He would want me, you know, just right at first, that was about all it was, was posing. Then later, he wanted me to start using a sexual toy

Speaker 13 on myself. And

Speaker 13 he'd want me to,

Speaker 13 he asked me several times if I had another woman I could get so he could watch both of us. But I didn't know anybody, so I never did do that.

Speaker 5 Deborah might not have known anyone that could join in on the fun, but it turns out Jimmy Swaggart already had another woman or child rather in mind.

Speaker 13 You know, I mean, the things he wanted to do was normal because a lot of guys like that. They like to do pose and stuff with it.

Speaker 13 The only thing that wasn't was when he started to get my daughter involved.

Speaker 13 He had seen a picture of her, you know, because I always kept my room. He'd seen a picture of my kids, and he'd start off asking me questions like,

Speaker 13 he'd say, well, you have a nice family, and he would say

Speaker 13 well can I meet her sometime and you know

Speaker 13 I wouldn't really at first I didn't really say too much to me you know because I just just thought he was just being nosy and then he started asking me questions like has she started to develop in her private parts and

Speaker 13 I said well no she's only nine years old you know and

Speaker 13 then he started asking me questions like

Speaker 13 Well, can I meet her and tell her and we tell her that he's a photographer and maybe I'll take pictures of you and then she'll get,

Speaker 13 you know,

Speaker 13 how do you say it, um, used to be comfortable, yeah, and maybe participate in it. And I just, you know, when he started to bring that up, you know, I told him, hey, don't talk about my daughter.

Speaker 5 Usually, allegations of attempted prostitution of a child would be enough to destroy any career, unless you're a preacher, apparently.

Speaker 5 Without revealing any details of a scandal, Jimmy Swaggart gave a tearful and televised confession of his sins.

Speaker 3 I I have sinned against you, my Lord.

Speaker 3 And I would ask that your precious blood

Speaker 3 would wash and cleanse

Speaker 3 every stain

Speaker 3 until

Speaker 3 it is in the seas of God's forgetfulness.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 3 you.

Speaker 3 And God bless you.

Speaker 5 And it worked. His congregation forgave him and Swaggart maintained control of his $12 million a year church until he was eventually defrocked three months later.

Speaker 5 But even that wasn't enough to stop him. Swaggart was still a preacher, still making money, and still picking up prostitutes.

Speaker 5 A vehicle that Swaggart was driving was pulled over in California on October 11, 1991.

Speaker 5 There was a prostitute named Rosemary Garcia in the passenger seat, but this time Jimmy Swaggart had no interest in confessing his sins. He told his congregation,

Speaker 5 The Lord told me it's flat, none of your business. And he refused to hand over control of the Sunlife Broadcasting Network, which he still owns and operates to this day.

Speaker 5 While the hypocrite Jimmy Swaggart and his congregation were busy demonizing innocent sex workers, back at PTL, Jim Baker and the new head of PTL Jerry Falwell were busy demonizing each other.

Speaker 5 The media frenzy surrounding the rape scandal involving Jessica Hahn unearthed some interesting dirt on Jim Baker.

Speaker 5 Allegations of wife swapping and homosexuality had come to light, as well as illegal acts such as embezzlement.

Speaker 5 A grand jury was convened to determine if there was probable cause to prosecute Jim Baker.

Speaker 5 Meanwhile, Jerry Falwell, who was handed temporary control of PTL until Baker's return, was throwing fuel onto the fire and banned Jim Baker from ever returning to the network.

Speaker 5 He called Baker, quote, the greatest scab and cancer on the face of Christianity in 2,000 years of church history.

Speaker 5 In response, Baker accused Falwell of organizing a coup to take over the PTL ministry.

Speaker 18 We hope that that will be, that investigation will be extended to take in the illegal takeover of PTL. The action, literally, the con game that was used to deceive us and to steal PTL from us.

Speaker 5 Falwell denied attempting to take over PTL, and he responded by holding a press conference of his own.

Speaker 15 No one,

Speaker 15 no one,

Speaker 15 Jerry Falwell or anyone associated with Jerry Falwell,

Speaker 15 has ever attempted to take over his ministry, whether friendly or hostile takeover.

Speaker 15 At no time did Jerry Falwell

Speaker 15 suggest to him that Jimmy Swagger or anyone else was attempting to take over his ministry.

Speaker 5 Jerry also also used the press conference as an opportunity to give Jim Baker some advice.

Speaker 26 He needs to come clean about Jessica Hahn and repent.

Speaker 26 He needs to acknowledge these homosexual problems dating back from 1956 to the present time as they've been alleged to us. And he needs to return the millions of dollars.

Speaker 5 And he wasn't finished. Balwell then read a list of demands dictated by Tammy Faye Baker in response to the ouster of her husband from the network that he had created.

Speaker 15 This is dated May 6th.

Speaker 15 From the desk of Tammy Baker. This is her letterhead card from the desk of Tammy Baker.
On the back, Rose said, Jerry, Jim, and Tammy gave me this list of things they'd like to receive.

Speaker 15 Hospitalization insurance.

Speaker 15 Jim's salary. for a lifetime at $300,000 per year.

Speaker 15 Tammy's salary for a lifetime, $100,000 000 annually rights to books and records stock that is left books and records secretary for one year phone bill for one year house on the lake and the furniture in it

Speaker 15 two cars security

Speaker 15 attorney fees for our our our our internal revenue service province

Speaker 15 Suggest that James Robinson be the host, keep the marriage workshops, and we want a maid for one year.

Speaker 15 I don't see any repentance there.

Speaker 15 I really don't. I don't see any concern for the welfare of this minister in that kind of request.
I see the greed.

Speaker 15 I see the self-centeredness.

Speaker 15 I see the avarice that brought them down.

Speaker 5 And for the grand finale, Jerry Falwell went into detail about the allegations levied against Jim Baker and the decision to ban him from the network.

Speaker 15 Jim Baker called me on the phone Sunday night, May 17th.

Speaker 15 Two months had passed.

Speaker 15 He said, Jerry, I want to ask you to hand the ministry back to me, as you promised, in Palm Springs on March 17.

Speaker 15 I said, Jim, assuming it was being taped or someone might be listening in and it was for the record, I said, Jim,

Speaker 15 here's what I want to say to you.

Speaker 15 When I was there March 17

Speaker 15 and confronted you with the story I had heard that you had raped some girl in Florida, a hotel,

Speaker 15 you advised me in a private meeting that you did not rape anyone,

Speaker 15 but that in fact your wife at that time was in love with another man.

Speaker 15 And you were trying to win her love back and hoping to make her jealous that John Wesley Fletcher, per your request, brought a 19-year-old girl down from New York. named Jessica Hahn.

Speaker 15 You told me that when the door was closed and you and Jessica were in that room,

Speaker 15 that if anyone raped anyone, she raped you. She began to undress you.

Speaker 15 You were at that moment temporarily impotent, so obviously you could not have intercourse with her.

Speaker 15 You told me that 15 minutes later you were in the shower saying, weeping and saying to God, oh God,

Speaker 15 I've been with a whore.

Speaker 15 We came back into the room where several people were,

Speaker 15 including Mark DeMoss, Jerry Nims, Pastor Dorch.

Speaker 15 We came into that room and we were there six hours totally, not 25 minutes.

Speaker 15 And in that six hours, somewhere along the way, you said, Jerry, I want you to take the ministry.

Speaker 15 And I asked you the question, why do you want me to take it? You said, you're the only preacher I trust right now. Those were his words.
Jim, since that time, I have learned.

Speaker 15 that not only did you have sex with Jessica Hahn,

Speaker 15 so did your associate, John Wesley Fletcher, And a third person, a member of your team, went in with the intention of having sex with her, and she was prostrate and on the floor and unable to respond and could not accommodate him.

Speaker 15 And I've learned, Jim, that two weeks after that in Hawaii,

Speaker 15 you went to that person and asked the question, did you get her too?

Speaker 15 And Jim, that made my blood boil.

Speaker 15 Later, I have sat across the table from men who have told me of your homosexual advances.

Speaker 15 And since then, of course, I have learned of the fiscal irregularities.

Speaker 15 And Jim, I must tell you that I would be doing a disservice to God. As much as I love you and care for you and will pray for you, I would be doing a disservice to God

Speaker 15 and to the church at large

Speaker 15 to allow you to come back here now or ever.

Speaker 5 Jim Baker was never one to shy away from the spotlight. So, of course, he responded.

Speaker 18 I'm a gentleman.

Speaker 27 Believe me, he is a gentleman.

Speaker 27 And he does not say things like, Did you get her to? That is not even in Jim Baker's vocabulary.

Speaker 18 I agree with my wife. We would not discuss this problem again publicly, and I'm just not going to do it.

Speaker 5 And here's Jim Baker discussing those problems publicly. I have never been involved with white swapping.
Never. I'm not a homosexual.

Speaker 20 And I've looked into the homosexual charges, and

Speaker 20 I would again say if anyone has these charges against me, I want them to come forward publicly with this proof.

Speaker 27 I've been married to this man for 26 years and I can tell you one thing he's not homosexual or is he bisexual. He's a wonderful, loving husband.

Speaker 20 So far as we looked into these charges, I found one of them said one man said I gave him a homosexual look.

Speaker 12 Wonder what that is.

Speaker 15 One of them.

Speaker 6 Other one said he walked in and I was having a rub down

Speaker 6 in a locker room where there was naked men. Well, I don't know if this man had ever been in a locker room before, but there's saunas and showers and locker rooms.
The people would be naked there.

Speaker 20 But there's no substance to these charges.

Speaker 5 During the grand jury hearings, it was revealed that Jim Baker had homosexual relationships with at least six male employees of PTL, including John Wesley Fletcher.

Speaker 5 the man who introduced Baker to Jessica Hahn.

Speaker 5 During the grand jury, John Wesley Fletcher answered no comment when asked if he had ever had a sexual relationship with Jim Baker.

Speaker 5 But a few months later, during an interview with Penthouse Magazine, Fletcher confirmed that he did, in fact, have sex with Jim Baker, albeit reluctantly, on three separate occasions.

Speaker 5 He told the magazine, quote, I was Jim Baker's male prostitute.

Speaker 5 More importantly, on December 5th, 1988, The grand jury charged that Jim Baker had defrauded the public through the sale of thousands of lifetime partnerships to Heritage USA.

Speaker 5 Federal prosecutors claimed Baker never intended to provide the free lodging that was promised to the donors because most of the accommodations were never completed.

Speaker 5 Baker guaranteed free lodging to 153,000 supporters. Heritage USA only had 258 rooms available.

Speaker 5 The government further alleged that out of $158 million collected to fund the construction of Heritage USA, at least $3.7 million was pocketed by Jim Baker for personal use.

Speaker 5 If convicted, Baker was facing a maximum penalty of 120 years in prison and more than $5 million in fines.

Speaker 5 The trial began in August of 1989.

Speaker 28 In opening arguments, prosecutor Jerry Miller portrayed Baker as a greedy, money-hungry showman who practiced fraud disguised as religion.

Speaker 28 Miller told jurors Baker enjoyed a life of excess, spending $100,000 in ministry money to charter a jet just to take his clothes to California.

Speaker 28 Miller also said Baker kept $100 worth of cinnamon rolls in his room just because he liked the smell.

Speaker 5 And just like everyone expected, it was quite entertaining.

Speaker 5 Four days into the trial, Joan Baker's attorney found his client lying in the fetal position with his head under a couch in his office, sobbing and muttering to himself, please don't do this to me.

Speaker 5 Baker claimed that he was suffering from hallucinations, and he claimed that everybody in the courtroom had shapeshifted into giant ant-like creatures.

Speaker 5 The trial was suspended, and Jim Baker was hospitalized for psychiatric evaluation. Dr.

Speaker 5 Sally Johnson, the chief psychiatrist at the Buttner Federal Correctional Institute, reported that Baker had suffered from a panic attack and that evaluations did not find any severe mental disease or defect.

Speaker 5 Quote,

Speaker 5 What we did see was that he was involved in a life circumstance and problem that has serious implications for him, and the stress of that brought him to our doorstep. He is not going crazy.

Speaker 5 He has no hidden mental illness. The stress that he's feeling is normal.
I can't rule it out that it won't happen again, but I can't rule it in either.

Speaker 5 The trial resumed two weeks later, and Baker's defense team did its best to explain why he had taken such large amounts of PTL money for personal use at a time when his ministry was crashing down to earth.

Speaker 5 They introduced the theory that Jim Baker was, in fact, possessed by demons when he helped himself to the funds.

Speaker 5 A theory that elicited giggles from the courtroom, while federal district judge Robert Potter buried his face into his hands.

Speaker 5 On October 5th, 1989, after only 10 hours of deliberation, the jury convicted Jim Baker of 23 counts of fraud and one count of conspiracy, but he still maintained his innocence.

Speaker 29 I went into the courtroom innocent of the charges against me, and I come out today still innocent of the charges against me.

Speaker 5 At a sentencing hearing about three weeks later, Jim Baker apologized, saying,

Speaker 5 I am deeply sorry for the people who have been hurt, the partners, and the people who worked at Heritage USA. I've sinned, I've made mistakes, but never in my life did I intend to defraud anyone.

Speaker 5 Jim Baker was sentenced to 45 years in prison and a $500,000 fine, a sentence viewed by many as extremely harsh.

Speaker 5 Judge Robert Potter, who had earned the nickname Maximum Bob during his career, defended the sentence saying, quote, Those of us who do have a religion are sick of being saps for money-grubbing preachers and priests.

Speaker 5 Worst of all, it appears that Mr. Baker feels that he was deserving of his gains from the little people who sent in their savings.

Speaker 5 Baker's sentence would later be reduced to eight years in 1991.

Speaker 5 He was granted parole parole and released from prison after only five years, leaving him free to pick up right where he left off, which is what he planned to do.

Speaker 5 But this time, it would be without his wife, Tammy Faye. She had filed for divorce in 1992.

Speaker 5 Even after standing by Jim's side throughout all of the scandals, she couldn't take it anymore.

Speaker 5 In a letter she had written to a church in Florida, while Jim was still in prison, she said, quote, For years I have been pretending that everything is all right, when in fact, I hurt all the time.

Speaker 5 I cannot pretend anymore.

Speaker 5 Tammy eventually remarried to a property developer named Roe Messner, and she would return to the public eye sporadically as a sealess celebrity before dying at her home in 2007 from colon cancer.

Speaker 5 PTL, the organization and television network the Bakers had founded, had also died.

Speaker 5 Even though Jerry Falwell had raised enough money to save it after the Baker scandals and taking a celebratory water slide in his suit at Heritage USA.

Speaker 5 PTL's financial problems never went away and made it impossible to rebuild.

Speaker 5 As for Jim Baker,

Speaker 5 he's back.

Speaker 5 He returned to televangelism in 2003 with a new show and a new wife, but a different message. Instead of preaching prosperity, Jim Baker now preaches about the end times and how to prepare for them.

Speaker 30 Your silver and your gold is going to be worthless. That's right.
So people have been storing away silver and gold for the last days.

Speaker 30 And that's why we've spent our ministry for the last years putting together. this food for survival.

Speaker 5 Instead of free lodging at theme parks, Baker now sells freeze-dried foods by the bucket, literally, and other survival products like a $15 toll to open said buckets and flashlights, shovels, duct tape, and microwaves.

Speaker 5 He terrorizes his audience with tells of apocalyptic cannibal neighbors to convince them to buy 400 pancakes at a time.

Speaker 5 And he rails against the liberal agenda and promotes Donald Trump like an angry baby boomer addicted to Fox News.

Speaker 30 There's coming a time when that's when he said the Bible says there will be no food to eat. and if you do

Speaker 30 get any food you have to sign over to the Antichrist that means you've sold your soul to the devil right and you say oh

Speaker 30 it will never be that evil what's going on right now

Speaker 30 half of America hates Jesus Christ Half of America wants to destroy the president because he's standing up to save babies that he stands up for religious freedom right and all all this is this is what's really really sad and it's time to be prepared because it's coming a time when it'll be too late yes to get ready absolutely I hear them crying

Speaker 11 I've heard them crying for years

Speaker 30 and God said what will we do what will you do

Speaker 30 if these babies are starving

Speaker 30 other people your neighbors your sweet sweet neighbors. The Bible says they're going to eat their arms.
The Bible says they're going to eat their babies.

Speaker 30 Then it says they're going to eat their children. That's what people do when they get hungry.
Listen, I think maybe Trump is here to give us time to get ready because...

Speaker 30 All hell is going to break a lot. And we're not going to have the Antichrist show up to get the sign of the mark of the beast on our forehead.

Speaker 30 It won't happen without

Speaker 30 hunger.

Speaker 30 Hunger is going to be the main thing. You don't get it.
Most people don't want to get it, but that's why I'm so obsessed with you all being prepared. Trump is not crazy.
No, no.

Speaker 30 They want him to be crazy because they want to impeach him.

Speaker 30 There's nothing they can impeach him over

Speaker 30 because this thing with the collusion with Russia, they can't prove. But they want to say this man's crazy.
And they're trying to get doctors to say the president's crazy. I'll tell you what,

Speaker 30 if they go through with that, there will be a riot in the United States of America. And you're going to find little old ladies rioting.

Speaker 30 You're going to find the church people out rioting because they're not going to take it anymore.

Speaker 30 This is stupid and insanity, what's going on in our country right now.

Speaker 5 If anybody can recognize stupidity and insanity, it's Jim Baker.

Speaker 5 But to his credit, every now and then he does have moments of clarity, like this one here during his final show with Tammy Faye in the 80s, where he reminds his audience that although things can seem awfully dark at times, lightness and love and hope will soon return.

Speaker 12 You know, I've walked through this yard, Tammy, and the sun has been shining, and yet a song has been going through my head: the sun will shine again.

Speaker 12 And you say, but the sun is shining, but in our world right now,

Speaker 12 it's cloudy and dark.

Speaker 12 I believed, Hamming,

Speaker 12 because the God I serve is still God.

Speaker 12 I believe the sun will shine again.

Speaker 12 Do you want to sing it? I'll do it. Can you do it? I sure do.
All right, Tammy Faye is going to sing a song for you.

Speaker 12 Maybe you're hurting and you need this song today, too. So I'll sing it for most of us, okay?

Speaker 12 The sun will shine

Speaker 12 again.

Speaker 5 Swindled is written, researched, produced, and hosted by me, a concerned citizen, with music by Ethan Helfrich, aka Rest You Sleeping Giant.

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