Episode 261

Speaker 1 So, what do this animal

Speaker 2 and this animal

Speaker 2 and this animal

Speaker 2 have in common?

Speaker 1 They all live on an organic valley farm.

Speaker 1 Organic valley dairy comes from small organic family farms that protect the land and the plants and animals that live on it from toxic pesticides, which leads to a thriving ecosystem and delicious, nutritious milk and cheese.

Speaker 1 Learn more at ov.coop and taste the difference.

Speaker 2 Today, we're exploring deep in the North American wilderness among nature's wildest plants, animals, and

Speaker 2 cows.

Speaker 1 Uh, you're actually on an Organic Valley dairy farm where nutritious, delicious, organic food gets its start. But there's so much nature.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 Organic Valley's small family farms protect the land and the plants and animals that call it home.

Speaker 2 Extraordinary.

Speaker 1 Sure is. Organic Valley, protecting where your food comes from.
Learn more about their delicious dairy at ov.coop.

Speaker 2 Sword and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 4 Is there anything you would want to tell her or anyone else? No. Or did you burn her body?

Speaker 2 No, I have no idea about it.

Speaker 4 You don't know how she ended up burned? No.

Speaker 2 Hi, this is Sword and Scale Season 11, Episode 261, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real.

Speaker 2 Thank you for joining us this week. We have a lot to tell you about.
First of all, Sword and Scale Television premieres very, very, very soon, if not already.

Speaker 2 You can watch right now if you go to swordandscale.com and

Speaker 2 click watch now.

Speaker 2 It's not that hard. But just so that you know, we are still making lots of improvements to the app and the website, lots of little things, lots of things you've been telling us over and over again.

Speaker 2 You know, one of the things we'd like to encourage you to do is to read more.

Speaker 2 I think it's important for all of us to become more educated and read more. So read the comment before you comment.

Speaker 2 Because someone else may have had, oh, I don't know, exactly the same thought two seconds ago. and already expressed it for all to read.

Speaker 2 Listen, I'm cranky. I haven't had my coffee yet.
Anyway, have you heard of the store? Go on over to store.sorgskill.com. We got all kinds of new merch, all kinds of cool shit.

Speaker 6 Uh,

Speaker 2 check it out if you like murdery stuff with our logo on it. I don't, I don't know.
I don't, what, why am I even still doing this? Just go ahead and do whatever you want all the time. I don't care.

Speaker 2 Whatever you want.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 2 That's that's all I gotta say.

Speaker 2 Enjoy the show.

Speaker 7 This is Bethany Frankl from Just Be with Bethany Frankl. Here's my summer tip: don't overthink your dogs' meals.

Speaker 7 My pups love just fresh from just food for dogs, complete, balanced, fresh, shelf-stable meals that go everywhere from New York City to weekends in the Hamptons.

Speaker 7 I mean, you can have real food ready to go for your pup anywhere. No cooler, no hassle, just grab and go.
I've seen the difference. Healthier coats, more energy, tails wagging at mealtime.

Speaker 7 Biggie and smalls love it, and I'm all about stuff that just makes sense when life is busy. Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order right now.
No code needed.

Speaker 2 You owe me.

Speaker 2 You owe me for the hundreds of true crime stories that I've told you over the years.

Speaker 2 You owe me for the many hours of entertainment that I've graciously given you.

Speaker 2 You owe me for all the hard work I've put into this show.

Speaker 6 You

Speaker 2 owe me.

Speaker 2 And don't you forget it.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 Did that sound a little entitled? If my sense of entitlement strikes you as unflattering, that's because it is.

Speaker 2 It's quite ugly, in fact.

Speaker 2 A sense of entitlement is a narcissistic personality trait, and it's pretty obvious.

Speaker 2 Most people don't like it when someone insists that they deserve something when, in reality, they don't deserve a damn thing.

Speaker 2 I was kidding, by the way, you don't owe me anything.

Speaker 2 No one owes anyone anything,

Speaker 2 generally speaking. But I can admit and acknowledge that I do carry around a little bit of

Speaker 2 entitlement.

Speaker 2 Most of us do. But we either consciously or subconsciously recognize that it's an unflattering characteristic.

Speaker 2 So we work on it. We try to suppress it, or at the very least, we try to keep it in check.
There are some, however,

Speaker 2 that have no problem letting their extreme sense of entitlement shine.

Speaker 2 If you've ever watched any number of Karen videos online, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 Some of you may have even caught the Karen bug.

Speaker 2 You know, the ones perpetually complaining about what they're not getting from a $10 optional podcast subscription in the comment section of every single episode?

Speaker 2 You know who you are.

Speaker 2 Those of us with a slightly more acute sense of self-awareness wonder what makes people act this way.

Speaker 2 An extreme sense of entitlement can be developed in a number of ways. One of the most common ways usually relates to how a person has been treated in the past.

Speaker 2 When someone or a group of people are routinely given what they want, they can develop the idea that their wants are just owed to them.

Speaker 2 It's common for children to have this mentality, but they usually grow out of it and begin to understand

Speaker 2 that life is about give and take.

Speaker 2 They learn that in general, if you want something,

Speaker 2 You have to earn it.

Speaker 2 Unfortunately, not everyone develops this understanding.

Speaker 2 Some full-ass grown adults hold firm to their sense of entitlement. And when things that were once handed to them are suddenly taken away,

Speaker 2 well, that's when they lash out.

Speaker 2 They get angry. They might scream or yell.

Speaker 2 They might get violent, in fact.

Speaker 2 They might even commit murder.

Speaker 2 On the night of January 26, 2018, A middle-aged woman in Rio Rancho, New Mexico was driving home from work.

Speaker 2 Her commute was one that she had made many times before, but on this particular night, she noticed something unusual.

Speaker 2 While driving along a somewhat well-traveled back road, she saw a smoldering pile of...

Speaker 3 well,

Speaker 2 something

Speaker 2 that was laid out on the road in front of her.

Speaker 2 The pile let off a small cloud of black smoke, and its glowing orange embers suggested that whatever she was looking at was very recently on fire.

Speaker 8 I was coming home. I could see it off to the side but I couldn't see what it was at all.

Speaker 2 When you drove through

Speaker 2 were you able to drive around it or did you

Speaker 11 drove around it?

Speaker 8 I couldn't see anything because it was dark. My headlights aren't very good, but I wasn't going to get out of my car either.
You know, I'm not stupid.

Speaker 8 But so I came home and we talked about it for a while. And

Speaker 8 so I went to bed, woke up at about

Speaker 12 10-ish,

Speaker 10 and said, I'm going to go up and take a look.

Speaker 2 The woman drove home. She told her roommates about what she saw and then she went to bed.
The next morning, she decided she wanted to take a closer look at what she had seen the night before.

Speaker 13 I went up there

Speaker 8 and I still didn't think it was real

Speaker 8 and it just did not look real to me.

Speaker 10 It was horrible.

Speaker 2 I was telling you what she saw for me.

Speaker 8 I could see the head. I could see the two arms, the face.

Speaker 8 It looks like a female.

Speaker 4 I can tell you that.

Speaker 2 Now that the sun was up, the woman returned to what she saw during her commute home.

Speaker 2 And she couldn't believe what she'd discovered.

Speaker 2 Lying on a burned mattress was a severely mangled and charred human corpse.

Speaker 8 Actually, as I was walking away, I could see the restraints.

Speaker 14 The restraints?

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 8 The person was bound with metal, with wire or something.

Speaker 8 The arm was broken. I could see that.

Speaker 15 The mouth looked round.

Speaker 8 Like

Speaker 11 forming an O.

Speaker 8 The right foot was missing. It looked like it had been cut off from about here, maybe even higher.

Speaker 8 It was creepy. I mean, there's no nice way to put it.
You know, some person lost their life,

Speaker 8 and whoever decided to dump it on a road that is well-traveled, you can tell the road's well-traveled.

Speaker 8 Why?

Speaker 8 Most people would not dump a body on a well-traveled road.

Speaker 2 This woman had a good question.

Speaker 2 Why would someone dump a body in a well-traveled road?

Speaker 2 Along with that question, the cops in Rio Rancho were wondering a few other things too. Like,

Speaker 2 who was this dead person?

Speaker 2 How did they die? And, more importantly,

Speaker 2 who put them there?

Speaker 2 Meanwhile, about 20 miles south, a concerned man in Albuquerque was making a phone call to 911.

Speaker 17 Albuquerque, please, Operator 3461. How can I help you?

Speaker 17 Yes, this occurred, Gandert. I have called about making a possibly making a decent person's report.
I'm at my sister's house, and

Speaker 17 she's not here. And I know just, well, I guess if you can send an officer or something.
What's the address where you're at, sir?

Speaker 2 62-year-old Harry Gandert lived in Albuquerque. And for the last day or two, he'd been trying to reach his sister, Marilyn.

Speaker 2 who he knew was pretty reliable when it came to returning his phone calls.

Speaker 17 Okay, and I'm sorry, can I get your name one more time? Harry Gander, Tommy's brother.

Speaker 15 And what's your sister's name?

Speaker 17 Uh Marieldyn Gander.

Speaker 17 Okay, how old is she?

Speaker 17 I'm sixty.

Speaker 17 Okay.

Speaker 17 But her vehicle is here, and that's how she travels. I mean, uh

Speaker 17 my note that I left yesterday is still in the door.

Speaker 17 I'm getting I'm getting worried now. Okay.

Speaker 17 I need to make a better search. I guess.

Speaker 17 We went inside the house, uh, I think it was yesterday.

Speaker 17 Her vehicle is here, so unless she went with a friend of hers.

Speaker 17 Okay.

Speaker 17 If she was a friend of her, she should have called me unless she was among my number.

Speaker 17 Okay.

Speaker 17 Well, just wait right there. I'm going to get an offer to make contact with you shortly.

Speaker 2 65-year-old Marilyn Gandert worked for the U.S. Postal Service for over 30 years.
And according to her co-workers, she was very dependable. A colleague that was a joy to be around.

Speaker 2 Working with Marilyn was just relaxing. That's the best word to use, is that she put it ease to you.

Speaker 2 When asked, Harry described his sister as a great person.

Speaker 2 In fact, he told police that Marilyn was the perfect sister. and that she was always there for him when he needed her.

Speaker 2 Harry reported Marilyn missing, but unfortunately, he couldn't direct the Albuquerque police towards many leads.

Speaker 2 Marilyn Gander lived alone and was a solitary person.

Speaker 2 She mostly kept to herself and didn't have a lot of close friends. She did, however, have a best friend.
Her name was Nancy Robinson.

Speaker 2 Nancy worked alongside Marilyn at the post office for a long time, and over the years, the two of them had become quite close.

Speaker 15 How did you know Marilyn?

Speaker 18 We worked together at the post office, same station,

Speaker 20 I think it was probably 12, 15 years.

Speaker 6 12, 15 years.

Speaker 18 And then we were

Speaker 18 friends outside of that.

Speaker 18 Went to Bible study together. Spent time with her and her husband, birthdays, you know, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 Marilyn's husband passed away long before Marilyn went missing. Several years later, tragedy struck again when Marilyn lost her only child.

Speaker 2 Marilyn's 42-year-old son, Ryan Bickett, killed himself while playing Russian Roulette.

Speaker 2 If for some reason you're not familiar, Russian Roulette is a deadly game of chance where a person places one bullet in a revolver, spins the cylinder, points the muzzle at their head, and pulls the trigger.

Speaker 2 You basically have a one in six chance of killing yourself.

Speaker 2 In case this isn't obvious, people usually don't play this game unless they're severely suicidal.

Speaker 2 In Ryan's case, he was both severely suicidal and extremely unlucky. How did Ryan's death affect Mira?

Speaker 18 She was heartbroken, of course.

Speaker 18 It's her only child. She...

Speaker 18 had, you know, like most mothers, she cremated remains that she wore around her neck. She paid extra money to bring the report to her house.
She had all the pictures.

Speaker 18 She would wake up every morning at a certain time when he lost his life. It was a big deal.

Speaker 2 As expected, the death of her son was devastating for Marilyn.

Speaker 2 But the silver lining was that she still had her daughter-in-law and Ryan's wife. Ryan's wife was 43-year-old Alyssa Bickett, and Marilyn also had a grandchild and Ryan's son.

Speaker 2 He was 20-year-old Drake Bickett.

Speaker 18 Marilyn had a big heart. Her interaction with Drake, that I would see

Speaker 18 she was trying to be grandmotherly with him.

Speaker 18 Same thing with Alyssa. She looked at Alyssa as her daughter.
She treated her like her daughter.

Speaker 2 Much like Harry Gander, when Marilyn went missing, Nancy was quick to notice that Marilyn wasn't responding to phone calls or text messages, which was quite out of character.

Speaker 15 And so when did you start becoming concerned?

Speaker 18 Honestly, I started getting a real bad vibe on Thursday night. I called her and then I called her later.
I couldn't get a hold of her. And the feeling got worse, worse, and worse.

Speaker 18 And you would text, when you text Marilyn or call Marilyn, you get pretty much an immediate response. Called her on Saturday and said, did you go back to work? I haven't heard from you.

Speaker 18 I'm concerned, et cetera, et cetera. And then by the time Sunday morning came, when I woke up six or seven o'clock, I left the house in my pajamas and my robe and said, Marilyn, I'm coming for you.

Speaker 4 Because you just knew something was wrong.

Speaker 2 After Marilyn was reported missing, the first place that police went looking was Marilyn's home. The responding officers discovered that Marilyn's back door was left wide open, so they went inside.

Speaker 2 But there was no sign of Marilyn.

Speaker 2 The house seemed undisturbed, but the police did notice something strange.

Speaker 2 Marilyn's house keys were left hanging on her front doorknob.

Speaker 2 Who leaves their house without their keys?

Speaker 2 The responding officers knew something was wrong, so they decided to visit another house that Marilyn owned.

Speaker 2 It was a neighboring property that Marilyn had been renting out to her daughter-in-law, Alyssa.

Speaker 2 When police arrived at this second house, they spoke to Alyssa, who was in the process of moving out and was half expecting Marilyn to pop on by.

Speaker 12 I'd have expected her to come by, but I didn't think anything of it. I thought, you know, she probably just, you know,

Speaker 7 like, sometimes she gets mad and won't even talk to me, so.

Speaker 2 Marilyn's brother, her best friend, and her daughter-in-law were almost always in regular contact with Marilyn.

Speaker 2 But the three of them told police that they didn't know where Marilyn was.

Speaker 2 She had seemingly just vanished.

Speaker 2 Meanwhile, back in Rio Rancho, A middle-aged woman discovered a mangled and smoldering corpse on a back road. After she told roommates about what she found, one of those roommates called 911.

Speaker 17 Sandoval County 911, what is the exact location of the emergency?

Speaker 17 Um

Speaker 17 out here at Encino and Northern,

Speaker 17 we think we found a body out here.

Speaker 17 It's it's in a road and it somebody had put it on like a mattress or something and burned it and

Speaker 17 and so it's a mattress with something burned on the top of it? Yeah, and it looks like it has bones in it, and you can see intestines and guts, and

Speaker 17 I don't know. And it looks like it has a head and hands and arms, and I don't know.

Speaker 17 Okay, and are you going to be around for officers?

Speaker 17 Well, I can't. I can walk back up there.

Speaker 2 After the police arrived on the scene, they quickly confirmed there was indeed a charred human corpse lying on a road in Rio Rancho.

Speaker 2 After which they promptly questioned the people that reported it.

Speaker 24 When you got there, what did you there was smoke? You could tell something had been burning and I was like, what was that? And he goes, I think it's a body.

Speaker 24 Okay, did you walk up to what you saw burning? Yeah, we were

Speaker 24 parked where you could go around it, like,

Speaker 24 but we didn't go around it, we just backed up when we left.

Speaker 24 And we were there for maybe three minutes of that.

Speaker 25 Oh, really?

Speaker 24 Well, because we both felt really creeped out, like someone was watching us.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 24 Oh, really? You felt like something was wrong.

Speaker 2 Needless to say, finding a dead body is a terrible experience for anyone to have, but in this particular case, and because of the horrific state of the body,

Speaker 2 it was especially traumatic for everyone that happened to witness it.

Speaker 24 Tell me again what you observed.

Speaker 24 A bad,

Speaker 24 bad thing.

Speaker 6 It was really bad. I know, man.

Speaker 24 But it's important for me to understand what you saw.

Speaker 12 Right.

Speaker 24 That person suffered bad, man.

Speaker 24 He suffered bad.

Speaker 24 What makes you think it's a person?

Speaker 25 I don't know.

Speaker 10 I could tell that there was a shin wound, like, sticking out.

Speaker 25 And there were intestines hanging on the side.

Speaker 10 It was bad.

Speaker 24 It's the worst thing I ever saw in my life. I'm sorry.

Speaker 24 I'm sorry you saw that.

Speaker 25 I told the Victor Miller, I said, man, if you got to see what this, I don't know how you do that.

Speaker 6 I mean,

Speaker 25 tomorrow we're putting a cross-up there because

Speaker 25 that soul has to rest, and it's not.

Speaker 10 Right.

Speaker 26 I understand.

Speaker 2 Within a day, the news of this dead body reached the Albuquerque area and the detectives that were searching for Marilyn.

Speaker 2 Soon after, the body was identified through dental records and confirmed to be 65-year-old postal worker Marilyn Gandert.

Speaker 2 Following that revelation, Albuquerque homicide detectives went to work, and they expected to find out who had brutally murdered this poor woman, who had dumped the body, who had burned it,

Speaker 2 and why.

Speaker 7 This is Bethany Frankl from Just Be with Bethany Frankl. Here's my summer tip: Don't overthink your dog's meals.

Speaker 7 My pups love just fresh from just food for dogs, complete, balanced, fresh, shelf-stable meals that go everywhere from New York City to weekends in the Hamptons.

Speaker 7 I mean, you can have real food ready to go for your pup anywhere. No cooler, no hassle, just grab and go.
I've seen the difference. Healthier coats, more energy, tails wagging at mealtime.

Speaker 7 Biggie and smalls love it, and I'm all about stuff that just makes sense when life is busy. Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order right now.
No code needed.

Speaker 2 In January of 2018, the mangled and smoldering corpse of 65-year-old postal worker Marilyn Gandert was found on a back road in Rio Rancho, New Mexico.

Speaker 2 After the body was collected and an autopsy was performed, the medical examiner and homicide detectives were able to determine what likely happened to Marilyn.

Speaker 2 Someone had brutally beaten and stabbed her to death.

Speaker 2 After she was dead, the killer or someone else drove the body to Rio Rancho, dropped a mattress on the road, and put Marilyn on top of it.

Speaker 2 Then they doused her in gasoline and lit the body on fire before driving away.

Speaker 2 The medical examiner also determined that there were no signs of sexual trauma to Marilyn's body, but there were ligature marks on her wrists and ankles. So Marilyn was likely bound either before

Speaker 2 or during the murder. When detectives began investigating this homicide, one of the first things they tried to figure out was where the murder happened.

Speaker 2 They examined Marilyn's house, but didn't find any signs of a struggle. or any significant traces of blood.

Speaker 2 They quickly determined that the murder probably didn't happen at Marilyn's home. Then, they set their eyes on another property that Marilyn owed.

Speaker 2 It was a neighboring house that Marilyn had been renting out to her daughter-in-law, Alyssa Bickett,

Speaker 2 who happened to be in the process of moving out when Marilyn was first reported missing.

Speaker 10 My name is Detective Ronald Abuker Prees.

Speaker 26 How are you?

Speaker 6 Fine.

Speaker 26 First off, we're investigating the disappearance. I believe it's your mom.
Ah, it's my mother-in-law. We actually want to secure the house.

Speaker 12 Okay, I'm just trying to get all my stuff out.

Speaker 26 Alright, so unfortunately, I can't let you go back inside.

Speaker 12 I need to get I have things in there.

Speaker 26 Unfortunately, I can't.

Speaker 12 I literally have everything that I'm s taking to my hotel and so for my partners.

Speaker 26 I understand that. Okay.
But at this point, we're gonna secure the residence.

Speaker 10 Why?

Speaker 26 Okay, we're doing a search warrant. I can't do any detail.
Do you have the warrant?

Speaker 10 I don't want to get out of the warrant.

Speaker 12 Then I wanna get my things out first.

Speaker 10 Why?

Speaker 26 Secure it for a search warrant.

Speaker 12 I need to get my phone family.

Speaker 10 What's her name? My name is Alyssa.

Speaker 2 43-year-old Alyssa Bickett wasn't overly thrilled that a bunch of cops were about to be invading her home and rifling through all her stuff.

Speaker 2 But given that she had no other options, she relented, and a search warrant was executed on her home.

Speaker 2 After that was being done, Alyssa was informed that Marilyn's body had been found, and Alyssa was taken to the local police station for questioning.

Speaker 15 Um, do you know why you're here today?

Speaker 12 Um, they told me because, um, Marilyn died. I didn't know she died.

Speaker 15 Okay, so you said that you had heard she was dead? Yes. Okay, how did you hear that?

Speaker 12 Um, one of the detectives told me, yes.

Speaker 15 So, it is true that Marilyn is deceased. Okay.
How do you know Marilyn?

Speaker 6 She's my mother-in-law.

Speaker 14 Mother-in-law. Okay.

Speaker 12 I don't know how I would say it. It was my husband, but he passed away.

Speaker 12 It was his mom.

Speaker 15 Okay. And when he passed away, you were still married to to him.
Yes, okay. Do you and her son, what's her son's name? Ryan.

Speaker 4 Ryan.

Speaker 22 How long were you and Ryan married before?

Speaker 20 23 years.

Speaker 15 23 years. And how did he pass away?

Speaker 12 He shot himself right in front of me.

Speaker 27 Okay. I'm sorry to hear that.

Speaker 27 How long ago was that?

Speaker 12 August of 2014.

Speaker 2 Again, this wasn't the first horrific tragedy that had struck this family. Back in 2014, Alyssa's husband and Marilyn's son, Ryan Bickett, killed himself while playing Russian roulette.

Speaker 2 According to Alyssa, that suicide happened right in front of her.

Speaker 15 How was your relationship with Marilyn prior to that, before Ryan had committed suicide?

Speaker 22 Okay, and you were married 23 years?

Speaker 14 Wow, okay.

Speaker 15 And your relationship was okay with Marilyn?

Speaker 10 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 15 And since Ryan has passed away, how was your relationship with Marilyn?

Speaker 12 I was okay off. I mean, just off and on.
I just really didn't talk to her very much.

Speaker 20 After the death?

Speaker 21 Okay. Any

Speaker 15 hard feelings I guess she could say about the homicide?

Speaker 27 She was not at you.

Speaker 27 How come?

Speaker 12 Sometimes she just thought I should have left him because he was very abusive.

Speaker 21 Oh, okay.

Speaker 15 I mean, if you would have left him, you wouldn't know.

Speaker 12 He might not have killed himself.

Speaker 15 So maybe a little finger-pointing is a moment. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Alyssa claimed that Marilyn had some resentment towards her. And Marilyn seemed to believe that if Alyssa wasn't in Ryan's life,

Speaker 2 Ryan wouldn't have killed himself.

Speaker 2 Despite this, Marilyn allowed Alyssa to remain living in the same house that she and Ryan shared, which was owned by Marilyn.

Speaker 2 The only condition that Marilyn had was a reasonable one. She expected that Alyssa pay rent.

Speaker 2 Unfortunately, Alyssa didn't live up to her end of the deal. So Marilyn began the process of evicting Alyssa.

Speaker 2 When Marilyn was first reported missing and responding officers went to the house that Alyssa was renting, Alyssa didn't mention anything about being evicted.

Speaker 2 She only told him that she was moving out.

Speaker 2 For detectives, that was kind of a big red flag.

Speaker 12 And I didn't work for six years when he was alive. He didn't let me work.
So, you know, and I got a job right away, but I sometimes, you know, I wouldn't have a job at some time. So,

Speaker 19 you know.

Speaker 15 So is it?

Speaker 12 but I tried to talk to her and she kind of worked with me. She said she was gonna evade me and I said, okay, you know, whatever.

Speaker 15 Okay, who lives at the 4715 Tier Ridge with you?

Speaker 12 Um, it was Annie Rael.

Speaker 2 Alyssa shared the house she was renting with two people, her 20-year-old son Drake and her close friend, 28-year-old Annie Rael.

Speaker 15 So how did you end up meeting Alyssa?

Speaker 21 Even at this hour.

Speaker 22 How long ago was that?

Speaker 28 Maybe like, it's been over a year, a little over a year, probably.

Speaker 27 And then how did you end up moving in with her?

Speaker 10 Um,

Speaker 29 I am going through the divorce, and

Speaker 29 she knew I was unhappy, and she kind of offered, and I accepted.

Speaker 2 Alyssa and Annie met in 2017 and became friends. Before long, Alyssa offered to let Annie live with her.
in the house she was renting.

Speaker 2 While there, Annie met and occasionally interacted interacted with Marilyn Gandert.

Speaker 2 According to Annie, the relationship between Alyssa and Marilyn was on occasion cordial.

Speaker 2 But on other occasions, it was clear that the relationship was breaking down.

Speaker 2 Mostly because Alyssa wasn't paying rent. And because, you know, she wasn't even taking good care of the house anyway.

Speaker 15 Well, it seems like Marilyn and Alyssa are having a dispute over the conditions of the house, maybe some payments, just not really getting along about stuff.

Speaker 21 Right. Okay.

Speaker 29 But I went out there while she was getting ready to leave and just talked to her and was like, Alyssa's trying.

Speaker 29 She's a good girl.

Speaker 14 Like, she does try.

Speaker 29 And she, I don't know, just trying to make the piece.

Speaker 21 It went really well, but I guess she didn't know who,

Speaker 14 that I was outie. She didn't know it was me.

Speaker 15 Did she know that you were staying there?

Speaker 21 No.

Speaker 2 While speaking with detectives, Alyssa and Annie seemed to downplay the issues that Marilyn was having with Alyssa in the house.

Speaker 2 But according to Marilyn's best friend, Nancy, Marilyn was at her wit's end.

Speaker 18 She had just had it with Alyssa. She loved Alyssa.
Over the years, she did everything she possibly could for Alyssa.

Speaker 18 And it was actually Alyssa who was angry with Marilyn.

Speaker 18 Marilyn supported them entirely for many years, as opposed to her own self. And then after Ryan died, there was a period of time where

Speaker 18 she wanted

Speaker 18 the whole situation to change. She was hoping that Alyssa could begin to pay her some rent, that

Speaker 18 kids could work, something could happen so that they could still live there and she wouldn't have to be able to support them entirely.

Speaker 2 Again, Marilyn's expectations were entirely reasonable. If Alyssa was going to live in Marilyn's house, she would have to pay rent.

Speaker 2 But apparently, Alyssa just didn't like that arrangement.

Speaker 18 Alyssa's response was that to, oh, okay,

Speaker 18 now because Ryan's not here, you're not going to take care of us anymore.

Speaker 11 She said, yeah, I can't.

Speaker 18 You know, you have to have some income. You have to help me here.
I want to retire. So she attempted to make that work with them.

Speaker 18 And Alyssa was very unhappy with the fact that she was now going to have to pay some rent.

Speaker 18 She'd tell me about the bits and pieces of money that would come in, and it never came in like it was supposed to. And there were promises

Speaker 2 despite her objections alyssa did agree to pay rent

Speaker 18 but she never actually lived up to the promise to do so on top of that alyssa did a pretty poor job of taking care of the house it looked when i saw i was there i said it looked as if somebody got angry wasn't yeah or drunk it was my pressure drunk angry whatever and just trashed it you know people do stuff like that they put their their fists through the wall, they

Speaker 18 break things, and it didn't look like it had been basically kept up anyway.

Speaker 2 Finally, after giving Alyssa several opportunities to turn things around, Marilyn decided that Alyssa had run out of chances and began the process of having Alyssa evicted.

Speaker 2 Marilyn's long-term plan was to eventually sell the house.

Speaker 18 She had resigned herself that she was done with the whole thing. Tired of putting that emotion out there, tired of footing the bill.
She was done.

Speaker 18 She was going to sell this house because she wanted to retire and work hard at the post office. So

Speaker 18 she was just kind of had

Speaker 18 been done with it.

Speaker 2 After hearing about the drama and conflict between Alyssa and Marilyn, Albuquerque homicide detectives felt like they had a plausible motive for murder.

Speaker 2 So they questioned Alyssa about the eviction.

Speaker 15 So am I correct by saying that eventually you guys were evicted?

Speaker 14 Yes, we were evicted. Okay.
How did that come about?

Speaker 12 Because we weren't paying. She just said, and I didn't go to court.
I just, because I knew

Speaker 12 I didn't want to argue, there was nothing to argue about.

Speaker 15 Did she actually take it to court, like file it in court?

Speaker 21 Oh, okay.

Speaker 15 And you didn't show up so I couldn't say that.

Speaker 12 I just didn't show up, you know, because I knew what's there to argue. I mean, what am I going to go say? I know I'm not paying rent, you know.

Speaker 15 Right.

Speaker 12 So I just let it go. And, you know, I mean, I, but I did ask her, you know, maybe we can work this out still.
And she said, no, and I said, okay, you know.

Speaker 15 How did you feel about her evicting you?

Speaker 12 I was a little upset, but then I came to terms with it. I was like, my husband died here.
You know, my son doesn't get it. It's not good for him.
It's not good for his mental.

Speaker 12 So, but it's not like, I mean, I don't hate her. I just, you know, I don't, I mean, that's a tough thing to go through.
You know, I mean, none of us would.

Speaker 6 We were just like, let's just go, you know.

Speaker 2 According to Alyssa, the eviction process was as cordial as it could possibly be. And Alyssa's friend Annie echoed that claim.

Speaker 29 Alyssa bought through to her that we're just, we are trying to get out. We're not trying to leave in a brawl.
We're not trying to destroy her house.

Speaker 15 Was there an understanding that those terms were starting to happen?

Speaker 10 Like good terms?

Speaker 10 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Melissa and Annie admitted that they weren't happy about being evicted, but they claimed that they accepted it and were willing to just move on.

Speaker 2 So they began the process of moving out, but that process wasn't easy because Marilyn changed the locks on the doors.

Speaker 15 How are you guys now getting back into the house?

Speaker 12 Marilyn would come and meet us there.

Speaker 20 Oh, okay, she has the key?

Speaker 10 Yeah. Oh,

Speaker 12 whatever.

Speaker 15 Okay, so the locks are changed. Marilyn has the key.
Yeah. And then when you guys were packing your stuff, Marilyn would come.

Speaker 12 Yeah, she'll come drink here, come inside, talk.

Speaker 10 So you thought everything was going okay with her. Yes, yes.

Speaker 27 Okay.

Speaker 2 The court filings and eviction notice granted Alyssa three days to move her things out of the house.

Speaker 2 Out of the concern that the house might be further damaged, Marilyn decided that Alyssa could only move her stuff out while Marilyn was there.

Speaker 2 She wanted to oversee what was going on so they wouldn't cause a bunch of damage to this house that she needed to sell eventually.

Speaker 2 So she decided to take off work so that she could watch everything and make sure the move-out process was, you know,

Speaker 2 going well.

Speaker 2 Yet, according to Alyssa,

Speaker 2 Marilyn eventually decided that she didn't need to keep an eye on things for some reason.

Speaker 12 And so Marilyn Yogurt came along and she was like, well, you know, I noticed you got, you know, I said, I'm not going to get this done today.

Speaker 12 And I know, you know, she's like, yeah, it's few days or whatever. That's what the, you know, they said, get out.
She's like, but I would work on Monday. I took off this week.

Speaker 12 So I'm going to take the weekend. I want you to come and get the key tomorrow.
I'm going to let you guys just hang out because, you know, like, not hang out, but, you know, I want to relax.

Speaker 6 You guys go ahead and

Speaker 6 just.

Speaker 15 So that was the conversation you had on Friday.

Speaker 14 On Friday, yeah.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 2 Alyssa claimed that on the day before Marilyn was reported missing, Marilyn gave her the new house keys so that Alyssa could finish moving out.

Speaker 2 I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would give someone that they are actually in the process of evicting a set of the new house keys to the new locks they've just installed.

Speaker 2 It kinda makes no sense whatsoever.

Speaker 2 But I'm sure you knew that already. Alyssa even had a text exchange with Marilyn to show detectives and back up this claim.
But again, Marilyn's friend Nancy contradicted what Alyssa told the police.

Speaker 2 When Nancy was shown the text messages between Alyssa and Marilyn,

Speaker 2 she knew it didn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 Needless to say, the story that Alyssa told police was pretty suspicious.

Speaker 2 Why would Marilyn go through all the trouble of filing court paperwork, changing the locks, taking time off of work, and then just allow Alyssa to have free access to the house? It made zero sense.

Speaker 2 And because of that, the homicide detectives began to push back on Alyssa's story.

Speaker 15 Marilyn didn't allow you guys in the house without her present.

Speaker 12 Yeah, at the beginning, yes.

Speaker 12 And it was because she thought we were going to damage the house more.

Speaker 15 Okay. So it's just kind of odd to me that all of a sudden she would have a chance.

Speaker 12 She likes to weekend and then she would go missing. Well, I don't know.

Speaker 15 Now all of a sudden you have the keys.

Speaker 12 Yes, because she gave it to me.

Speaker 15 Not according to the friends that we spoke to, not according to Harry. They all stated that she was not going to allow you guys in that home.

Speaker 14 Okay,

Speaker 12 she discussed and said that she would.

Speaker 2 Naturally, Alyssa maintained that Marilyn had given her the house keys and permission to go into the house without being supervised.

Speaker 2 Unfortunately for her, as detectives began asking for details about how Alyssa got those house keys,

Speaker 2 her story

Speaker 2 started to

Speaker 2 bullshit, break down.

Speaker 12 I messaged her on Saturday morning and said, I'm on my way. It was about nine.
I said, I'll be there in about an hour. And I went and picked up the key.

Speaker 12 So I just went in and started packing, and then Annie and Dre came, and you know, we're loading up and stuff.

Speaker 6 Okay. And

Speaker 22 her brother, Marilyn's brother Harry came. To the house on?

Speaker 12 Yeah, and asked if I had on Saturday.

Speaker 12 And asked if I had seen Marilyn when the last time was. And I said, about 10 this morning, I went and picked up the key.

Speaker 2 Alyssa claimed that the last time she saw Marilyn was on Saturday morning when Marilyn gave her the house keys. But police knew that couldn't be because by Saturday morning, Marilyn was already dead.

Speaker 2 The woman who saw Marilyn's body on the back road in Rio Rancho had spotted it on Friday night during her commute home.

Speaker 2 Alyssa Bickett was either lying or she'd gotten her days mixed up. Of course, she claimed the latter when her impossible story was pointed out to her.

Speaker 12 I mean, I'm confused. I don't want to talk anymore.
I don't want to even be here.

Speaker 15 How come you're so upset right now?

Speaker 28 Because she's gone and I didn't know this.

Speaker 15 You know? And I'm sorry.

Speaker 28 It's like, and then I'm here being accused of I don't even know what

Speaker 4 we need to get to down to this.

Speaker 28 I mean, it's just because I can't think right now, and it's not fair. And I probably will say things that I don't remember, you know.

Speaker 28 And I, I know, Friday was the last time I did see her, but I've seen her in that robe. And I think I was just in my head fully making up that I saw her that morning, okay?

Speaker 28 Because I did see her Friday, and that was the last time I saw her.

Speaker 2 Alyssa changed her story.

Speaker 2 Now, the last time she saw Marilyn was on Friday, not Saturday. Okay, fair enough.
Being questioned by the police about the death of a family member is a high-stress situation.

Speaker 2 It's entirely possible that Alyssa confused Friday for Saturday.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 there was something else that Alyssa could not explain,

Speaker 2 namely the large amount of blood the cops found in her house.

Speaker 15 Would there be any reason that we will find

Speaker 15 Marilyn's blood in Annie's room?

Speaker 6 I don't know.

Speaker 12 No, there would be no reason. I don't know.

Speaker 15 Is there going to be any reason if we pull that carpet up in that house that there's going to be any of Marilyn's blood on the carpet underneath?

Speaker 12 I don't know.

Speaker 15 That should just be a yes or no answer.

Speaker 10 That's not a question.

Speaker 12 Well, there shouldn't be any.

Speaker 15 Okay. Well, there is.
Okay.

Speaker 27 So you're the renter of the home.

Speaker 15 You were the last person in the home. So that needs to be explained.
I don't know.

Speaker 14 Why is there blood on the walls of that house, in the carpet, and in Annie's room?

Speaker 12 I don't know.

Speaker 15 You have no answer. No.
Doesn't that seem a little suspicious to you?

Speaker 12 Well, I don't know. I have no answer.
And now she's missing the blood. Well, I haven't done anything.
I don't know of anybody doing anything, so we haven't done anything to her.

Speaker 15 Who cleaned up the blood in the hallway?

Speaker 15 You guys didn't do a very good job on the walls because there's still blood spatter on the walls.

Speaker 15 Very small, but she didn't do a very good job because we were able to locate it.

Speaker 2 Eventually, the detectives made things very clear for Alyssa. They were trying to solve a murder case.

Speaker 2 It was a murder that almost certainly happened in the home where Alyssa was living. And they knew that Alyssa was lying to them.

Speaker 15 So you've told... Detective Brown that the last time you saw her was on Saturday morning at 10.

Speaker 22 I was wrong.

Speaker 12 I lied because I wanted to see her that morning and I didn't, okay?

Speaker 15 No, you're lying now because you know that we caught you in a lie.

Speaker 12 But I did nothing to her. I did nothing to her.
Well, maybe you didn't, but somebody else said, no, I don't.

Speaker 15 Well, she's deceased. I'm sorry.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 15 Well, how are your kids going to feel when you put a child or a problem with them?

Speaker 12 I thought they're baby sad.

Speaker 12 But I didn't do it, so I will find them.

Speaker 27 Okay.

Speaker 28 Well, if you think you didn't do it, I don't know.

Speaker 15 It was in the residence that you're living in.

Speaker 6 None of us did it.

Speaker 12 You You have to be together. None of us did it.
So I'm not even talking anymore.

Speaker 12 And you said I had that right. You do have that right.
So I will get an attorney.

Speaker 2 After Alyssa was confronted with her lies and the blood in her house, she asked for a lawyer, which effectively shut down this interview. But the cops weren't done asking questions.

Speaker 2 Next, they turned to Alyssa's son, Drake, who, having recently been evicted from his mom's home, was now living in a day's in hotel room with his girlfriend.

Speaker 2 Detectives met with Drake at the hotel and asked him about the last time he saw his grandmother. Drake explained that he last saw Marilyn the day before she was reported missing.

Speaker 2 And when he saw her, she was parked outside his house as Annie and Alyssa were busy moving things out of the home.

Speaker 5 Annie and my mom and my grandma were there. And then I just showed up with Nikki in the afternoon.
I don't know exactly what time. I'd say 1 p.m.
Okay. 1 p.m.

Speaker 5 Me and Nikki go to the hotel because she says, hey,

Speaker 5 your mom and Annie need help moving stuff.

Speaker 5 And I was like, okay, well, then I'll go there. And then we drove there, and then I go in to help him.

Speaker 5 And then my mom was like, oh, your grandma's kicking us out. And I was like, oh, why? And she's like,

Speaker 5 because we don't have money for this place. And then I was like, okay, well, I'll go talk to her and then I'll help you guys move stuff out.
So then I went out to the car and was like, yo,

Speaker 5 are you kicking us out or what? And she was like, yeah. And I was like, okay, well, I'll help them get this stuff out.
And then I'm staying at a hotel. I just wanted to let you know that.

Speaker 5 She was like, okay, bye. How did that make your mom feel? Oh, she was pretty upset.
Yeah. She was really upset.

Speaker 30 What'd she have?

Speaker 5 She was just like, I don't know where I'm going to stay and stuff like that. But

Speaker 5 we told her that she could stay at hotels with us. With you and Nikki? Yeah, until we got a place.

Speaker 2 According to Drake, after he helped his mom and Annie move a few things out, he left.

Speaker 2 As he was leaving, he saw that Marilyn was still parked outside the house.

Speaker 15 And then Friday, when you left, where was grandma?

Speaker 2 Still there.

Speaker 5 Still there? Yeah, she was still there. And then we left.

Speaker 1 Where was her car?

Speaker 5 Parked out front.

Speaker 15 And what did your mom and Annie do when you left?

Speaker 5 Did you talk to them? They were just, no, I was like, I'm leaving, and then they were like, okay, well, we'll,

Speaker 5 when you gotta leave soon too. We're gonna put stuff in the storage and then we'll meet you at the hotel.
And I was like, all right, I'll see you guys there. Okay, and then when did you see

Speaker 31 your mom and Annie again?

Speaker 5 Um, whatever we were at the hotel.

Speaker 1 Did they say anything to you about anything that happened?

Speaker 5 No, I didn't think that there was anything that had happened.

Speaker 15 You didn't know that your grandma was missing?

Speaker 5 No, I had no idea. I had seen her those two days and then that was it.

Speaker 2 As far as Drake knew, when he left the house that day, his mom, his grandma, and Annie were still there, and everyone was still alive and breathing.

Speaker 2 Sadly, detectives had some bad news for Drake.

Speaker 5 Your grandma,

Speaker 2 um,

Speaker 22 we found her,

Speaker 15 but she's dead.

Speaker 5 Where?

Speaker 5 Well, we believe that it's suspicious.

Speaker 15 Okay, we think so someone killed her.

Speaker 15 Win, and I'm really sorry.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 2 How does that make you feel?

Speaker 5 Makes you feel sad?

Speaker 5 Very sad.

Speaker 2 So she's murdered?

Speaker 5 Or like, is she she's just dead?

Speaker 15 No, someone murdered her.

Speaker 18 So now telling you that, knowing that,

Speaker 15 is there anything now that you think you may have seen or heard that you think, okay, that's kind of out of the ordinary, something that I saw or someone that I talked to, or conversation.

Speaker 5 I've never, no, I haven't heard or seen anything.

Speaker 2 After Drake was made aware of the situation, detectives further explained that Alyssa's story just wasn't adding up.

Speaker 2 In other words, it was looking like Drake's mom had something to do with the murder.

Speaker 7 Yeah, and I can tell you that

Speaker 15 mom's story isn't matching up

Speaker 15 with your story or or Nikki's story.

Speaker 5 Okay. And with...
Totally mom. Yeah.
Okay, is she okay? Your mom? Yeah, she's fine. She's being different.

Speaker 15 No, and I believe there's that gap of time that you guys aren't with them. So as I was asking when they came back, was there anything that was like awkward that you noticed?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 2 According to Drake, when he met back up with his mom and Annie, He didn't notice anything strange or suspicious to him, aside from the fact that they had all just been evicted from their house and essentially had nowhere to live, everything

Speaker 2 seemed fine.

Speaker 2 Essentially, Drake was either unwilling or unable to give the police any new information.

Speaker 2 But this wasn't the last time that Drake would speak to cops.

Speaker 2 During the second interview with the detective, Drake made a startling admission.

Speaker 5 Like, I'm gonna tell you the honesty.

Speaker 5 My grandmother said,

Speaker 5 I'm

Speaker 5 too old.

Speaker 2 Will you please kill me?

Speaker 1 Do you remember when she told you that?

Speaker 5 She told me

Speaker 5 like a couple days to several days as I stayed with her. I was there and then she would be like depressed.

Speaker 15 So you're saying that at some point your grandma asked you to kill her?

Speaker 5 Like she was like, yeah, I get real tired at night and like I'm...

Speaker 5 I want to die, you know?

Speaker 15 So did you do that for her?

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 2 At this point, detectives were extremely confident in their theory that Alyssa and Annie were involved in murdering Marilyn Gander.

Speaker 2 But now, Alyssa's 20-year-old son, Drake, was taking sole responsibility for it. Perhaps he was just trying to protect his mom from being charged with murder.
How noble.

Speaker 2 After Drake made this admission, he was arrested. But the investigation didn't stop there.

Speaker 2 The detectives remained determined to find out the truth. And eventually, that truth came out.

Speaker 2 It turned out that it wasn't just Alyssa that killed Marilyn and burned her body. It wasn't just Annie or Drake either.
Marilyn Gandert

Speaker 2 was murdered by

Speaker 2 all three of them.

Speaker 2 In June of 2018, 20-year-old Drake Bickett confessed to Albuquerque homicide detectives that he brutally murdered his own grandmother, 65-year-old Marilyn Ganderd.

Speaker 2 According to Drake, his grandmother asked him to kill her, and he graciously carried out her wishes, just like any decent grandson would.

Speaker 5 So I was just like, respect, like, because I can understand. I don't know if you guys can understand, but I expect you guys to be able to understand.

Speaker 5 If an old woman is like old and having to work for her children, right?

Speaker 5 Then I'll do what she wants, you know? Like.

Speaker 15 So, how did you do it?

Speaker 5 Just essentially...

Speaker 5 That's it. Like, that's all the information without a lawyer or a public defender I'd like to share.
Okay.

Speaker 22 But you don't want to talk anymore after that?

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 2 After Drake gave his confession, he was carted off to jail and did the standard purp walk.

Speaker 2 This gave the local media an opportunity to put a camera and microphone in his face.

Speaker 4 Did you have anything to do with her death?

Speaker 26 Oh yeah, she asked me to kill her, so I did.

Speaker 4 She asked you to kill her. Yeah.
How did you do it?

Speaker 10 Uh I'm not gonna.

Speaker 5 I don't know.

Speaker 4 You don't know how

Speaker 28 she mentioned that she was old, tired, so.

Speaker 4 So So she wanted you to kill her. Did you burn her body?

Speaker 2 No, I have no idea about that.

Speaker 4 You don't know how she ended up burned? No. Is there anything you would want to tell her or anyone else? No.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Drake told the police and the media that he murdered his grandmother, but he was unwilling to provide any details about how he did it or how her body ended up being burned on a back road in Rio Rancho.

Speaker 2 Needless to say, the police knew that there was a lot more to this story.

Speaker 2 In fact, they didn't buy Drake's claim that Marilyn wanted to be killed. They believed that Drake's mom, Alyssa Bickett, and her friend, Annie Rayal,

Speaker 2 were responsible for the murder. When Alyssa was questioned and the detectives pointed out inconsistencies in her story, she promptly asked for an attorney.
And her interview came to an end.

Speaker 2 Annie, on the other hand, did a lot more talking.

Speaker 29 I feel like you guys are doing this because you feel like we did something to Marilyn.

Speaker 15 Yes, we are investigating a homicide.

Speaker 21 Marilyn was murdered.

Speaker 15 Without a doubt, we know that.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 28 Evidence has been collected.

Speaker 10 A lot of it is pointing towards you and Alyssa.

Speaker 15 So you have one opportunity to give us the site, your side of the story.

Speaker 29 I am telling you,

Speaker 6 we didn't do anything.

Speaker 21 I am telling you that.

Speaker 2 One of the main issues with Alyssa and Annie's denials was that Marilyn did not give them permission to enter the house they were being evicted from unless Marilyn was there.

Speaker 2 Yet Alyssa had the keys to the house when the cops first questioned her.

Speaker 2 She was there, alone, without Marilyn.

Speaker 15 You have not been permitted permitted into that residence without Marilyn being there. Is that correct?

Speaker 29 Me specifically, I don't.

Speaker 14 Anybody.

Speaker 15 She's the only one that has the key.

Speaker 29 Alyssa has the keys.

Speaker 29 She actually.

Speaker 10 Right.

Speaker 15 So when did she obtain those keys?

Speaker 20 I don't know when she got the keys.

Speaker 29 I don't know that.

Speaker 10 So Alyssa.

Speaker 15 Oh, she has the keys, you said. Alyssa said she got the keys.

Speaker 20 She has the keys.

Speaker 29 She talked to Marilyn.

Speaker 28 She said Marilyn

Speaker 29 is giving us more time. That's what I was told, and I don't care to ask questions.

Speaker 15 You don't think it's important?

Speaker 29 No, all that's important is that we need to get their stuff out and clean the house.

Speaker 28 That's what's important to me.

Speaker 2 The cops knew, or at least strongly suspected, that Annie was lying. And perhaps the most telling thing about her interview was that she clearly wasn't taking the situation seriously.

Speaker 10 Don't talk to me like that. You know what?

Speaker 22 Don't talk to me guys.

Speaker 10 like that. I don't

Speaker 10 treat you like you're stupid.

Speaker 10 I'm getting a very bad like.

Speaker 15 Because I'm getting upset that you expect me not to lie to you, but you're going to sit over there and lie to me.

Speaker 29 I don't appreciate that you feel that way because I'm explaining to you my situation.

Speaker 29 I don't know what to think.

Speaker 15 Do you realize you're looking at being charged with a homicide?

Speaker 15 Does that not compute with you?

Speaker 10 And I'm trying my hardest to give you the way to get it out of that.

Speaker 10 I get it.

Speaker 29 Okay.

Speaker 15 You obviously don't.

Speaker 10 Okay. You're sitting here smiling and laughing.

Speaker 9 I'm laughing

Speaker 29 because I know that we're going to be out of this fine because we have done nothing wrong here.

Speaker 2 Annie feigned confidence, but the confidence was slowly broken down as detectives started introducing physical evidence into the conversation.

Speaker 2 Annie owned and drove a large pickup truck, which was perfect for transporting a dead body from Albuquerque to Rio Rancho.

Speaker 2 As coincidence would have it, surveillance cameras captured Annie's truck driving through Rio Rancho around the same time that Marilyn's body would have been dumped there.

Speaker 20 Do you like to off-road?

Speaker 16 No. Because you have a nice truck.
I mean, you can off-road.

Speaker 29 That truck, they literally told me not to drive on the highway.

Speaker 16 So, why? Well, but you can go off-road out there, and there's trails, and there's roads, and there are dirt roads.

Speaker 19 I don't do that because that's my only.

Speaker 6 I don't do that.

Speaker 15 So why did you guys go out there then?

Speaker 29 We went to Walmart.

Speaker 29 What are you asking me? Like, hey, you're truly

Speaker 29 back to the house.

Speaker 15 Okay, your truck went beyond Walmart and you guys went west. What the f- You went west of Unser for something.

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 2 Because Annie's truck was spotted near where Marilyn's body was found, the cops decided to search it. And Annie seemed pretty confident that they wouldn't find anything incriminating.

Speaker 15 But we are going to process the vehicle for any kind of evidence inside the vehicle.

Speaker 10 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 15 Is there going to be any reason that Marilyn's DNA is going to be inside that vehicle?

Speaker 2 Unsurprisingly, the police did find Marilyn's DNA in the bed of Annie's truck, along with a few other things.

Speaker 2 Court documents show five days later, investigators find blood in the bed of that truck, along with Marilyn's purse, medications, pants, and keys to her car.

Speaker 2 Obviously, Alyssa and Annie weren't criminal masterminds. Jesus, these people couldn't even figure out how to pay their fucking rent.

Speaker 2 They committed this murder and then did an absolutely horrible job of covering it up.

Speaker 2 Not only did the cops find Marilyn's blood in the back of Annie's truck, but they also found a whole bunch of Marilyn's blood in Annie's bedroom.

Speaker 15 Is there going to be any reason that a large amount of blood of Marilyn's is going to be in that house?

Speaker 14 Sorry.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 20 And if we do locate a lot?

Speaker 23 Well,

Speaker 23 I just.

Speaker 21 Why would you locate any blood?

Speaker 15 Okay. Specifically, maybe in your bedroom?

Speaker 10 No.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 10 And when we do, because we have.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 15 What's going to be the answer then?

Speaker 29 Same.

Speaker 22 You don't know.

Speaker 29 We've been together.

Speaker 4 Just because you've been together doesn't mean that... Doesn't mean you can't commit a crime together.

Speaker 21 Right.

Speaker 21 There's blood

Speaker 27 in your room.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 16 How did it get there?

Speaker 14 I don't know.

Speaker 28 Okay. I've

Speaker 28 never lived in my room.

Speaker 10 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 9 A lot.

Speaker 29 Yeah.

Speaker 29 I just, I guess I expect people to believe me in the easy, but

Speaker 21 we are moving out of that place. We're trying to do it in peace.

Speaker 29 We're not doing wrong here. You guys do what you need to do.

Speaker 19 Okay.

Speaker 2 When faced with the facts, Annie just denied everything, which wasn't exactly a sound strategy. The physical evidence was just

Speaker 2 overwhelming, and detectives made that very clear.

Speaker 15 Unfortunately, all the evidence is pointing towards you.

Speaker 29 I mean if that's how it I don't know what else to say. I can't I'm not gonna say that I seen something and I didn't or I was a part of something and I wasn't

Speaker 16 there's I mean there's if you didn't do something wrong then you know what happened and you saw it and you know who did and you saw part of this.

Speaker 28 There's absolutely no way.

Speaker 16 There's no way Annie that you don't know what happened and that you didn't see someone cleaning.

Speaker 16 Cleaning up blood no yes and then your truck

Speaker 16 your truck was your truck you were on traffic cameras where we found the body

Speaker 29 like I feel like so we need to explain it well I don't I can't because I don't I didn't see anything

Speaker 23 If I'm gonna feel this way that you guys are trying to switch it up on me, I'm not gonna even talk at this point because I'm telling you, I'm not lying.

Speaker 10 Did it happen Can they ask you to help me get rid of the body?

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 2 Despite the evidence, Annie denied any involvement with the murder. But in the end, it didn't matter.
The cops had more than enough to put both Annie and Alyssa behind bars.

Speaker 2 And they started with Alyssa.

Speaker 15 And do you know why you're here today?

Speaker 12 No, you don't.

Speaker 15 Okay, so the reason I brought you down or had you arrested is I have an active warrant, an arrest warrant for the murder of Marilyn.

Speaker 5 That's fair.

Speaker 15 Okay, so that's going to take a little while and then you'll be booked into the Metropolitan Detention Center. I'm sorry?

Speaker 5 Why am I booked? For murder.

Speaker 12 I didn't do it, so.

Speaker 5 Okay, well, that's what the arrest warrant is for. Okay.

Speaker 15 Do you have any questions for me at this point?

Speaker 12 I need to speak to somebody.

Speaker 10 A lawyer.

Speaker 2 In May of 2018, Alyssa Bickett was officially arrested and charged with the murder of Marilyn Gander.

Speaker 2 A short time later, detectives also formally charged her friend, Annie Rael.

Speaker 15 So, do you know why you're here today?

Speaker 23 No.

Speaker 23 Okay.

Speaker 15 So, the reason you're here today is I have an active arrest warrant for you for the murder of Marilyn.

Speaker 5 Okay?

Speaker 15 So, at this point, you're being charged with an open count of murder, conspiracy to commit murder, tampering with evidence, and conspiracy to tamper with evidence.

Speaker 27 Okay.

Speaker 2 Months later, and perhaps after learning the full extent of the potential consequences they were facing, both Alyssa and Annie decided to confess.

Speaker 2 Though their respective stories didn't quite match up.

Speaker 2 According to Alyssa, Annie was the primary aggressor and the one that set Marilyn's murder into motion.

Speaker 32 So Marilyn, you know, she's sitting in her car and then she was coming in because she needed to use a restaurant drink. And it's like, look at my mom.

Speaker 32 This is our house. Can't we just stay here one more time

Speaker 32 in our own beds? And she said no.

Speaker 32 And so he was crying and he left out the back door. I stayed in my room.
And at that point, I did hear Marilyn yell.

Speaker 30 And I went out there

Speaker 30 and Annie is on her back.

Speaker 32 She's on the ground. So Marilyn's on the ground.
Marilyn's on the ground. Annie's on her knee and her back.

Speaker 15 Oh, she has her knee and her back.

Speaker 32 Okay.

Speaker 30 I tied up her hands and legs and I helped her put this

Speaker 30 bag over her head.

Speaker 15 Do you remember what you did it with?

Speaker 30 What you tied her up with? Yeah, it was like phone cords and stuff like that. Then there's other one that Annie gets, put it around her neck, and I hear it snap, but I don't know if it's the cord.

Speaker 7 I'm just like, I gotta go.

Speaker 2 Alyssa explained that during an argument with Marilyn about the rent money and eviction, Annie unexpectedly attacked her.

Speaker 2 Then Alyssa and Annie beat, stabbed, and suffocated Marilyn to death.

Speaker 2 After she was dead, they loaded her body into the back of Annie's truck and drove north toward Rio Rancho.

Speaker 2 Alyssa admitted that after they stopped on a somewhat desolate back road, they unloaded a mattress and placed Marilyn's body on top of it. Then, Alyssa poured gasoline on the body and lit it on fire.

Speaker 2 For detectives, Alyssa's version of events somewhat aligned with what they believed happened.

Speaker 15 This is just my opinion. I think that the argument ensued over the rent or whatever and frustration started.

Speaker 28 And it just happened.

Speaker 15 It wasn't planned. It wasn't intentional.
Something happened. And whether it was Drake or whether it was

Speaker 21 whomever, I actually don't even think it was you, but whomever,

Speaker 15 oh shit, look what we just did.

Speaker 28 It got out of control.

Speaker 15 Now we need to get rid of the body.

Speaker 2 The detectives believed that the murder was not planned. and that it happened in a moment of desperation and anger.

Speaker 2 A moment where you lose control of your emotions. A moment where you're faced with the weight of the world on your shoulders and you just snap and do something really, really, really stupid.

Speaker 2 And now there's even more consequences facing you. There's even more

Speaker 2 problems ahead unless you eliminate. what you just did, unless you erase it, unless you erase this person you've assaulted

Speaker 2 it can happen so very quickly and lives are changed forever

Speaker 2 it's an incredible story but it's too bad that it's all bullshit according to annie that is

Speaker 2 you see when annie decided to confess she revealed that the murder was in fact

Speaker 32 premeditated and then when drake got there we all were in alyssa's room getting high.

Speaker 32 And that's pretty much when

Speaker 32 Alyssa, like,

Speaker 32 she had brought it up before about

Speaker 17 killing Marilyn.

Speaker 32 I still didn't think we were going to do it. Like, and Marilyn was coming in.
Drake was like,

Speaker 32 can you just let us stay?

Speaker 32 Look at my mom packing. She was like, no.

Speaker 32 Alyssa looked at me and Drake nodded. and I looked at Drake and he started like walking behind Marilyn and I got Marilyn in from behind and

Speaker 32 took her down.

Speaker 2 Annie explained that after she took Marilyn to the ground, Alyssa and her son Drake helped to tie Marilyn up.

Speaker 2 Then they wrapped a plastic bag over Marilyn's head. beat her with a baseball bat, and stabbed her to death.
One major difference in Alyssa's and Annie's stories involved Drake.

Speaker 2 According to Alyssa, Drake left the house before the murder happened, but in Annie's version, Annie, who, you know, probably doesn't give a shit about Drake, Drake was the one that finished Marilyn off by slitting her throat.

Speaker 2 Like mother, like son, I guess. The son doesn't fall far from the murderous mother tree or something like that.
I don't know. Maybe that should be a shirt.

Speaker 2 Anyway, ultimately, the detectives determined that Annie's confession was a more accurate telling of the events and that Alyssa was probably trying to protect her son from a murder conviction.

Speaker 2 She was unsuccessful in that pursuit. After detectives finalized their investigation and handed things off to prosecutors, Drake, Alyssa, and Annie all faced murder charges.

Speaker 2 All three of them decided not to take their respective cases to trial, and they all pled guilty. Alyssa was sentenced to 30 years in prison.

Speaker 2 Drake got 26, and Annie was given a reduced sentence of 12 for her willingness to cooperate.

Speaker 2 You could say that justice has been served, but for Marilyn's friends and family, and specifically for her brother, that justice comes as a small consolation.

Speaker 2 Harry Gandert continues to live with the tragic loss of his sister and the realization that Marilyn's final moments alive must have been absolutely horrifying and incredibly painful.

Speaker 2 She was just a very kind person.

Speaker 2 And she didn't deserve anything like this. It's a useless thing that my sister was killed.
I mean,

Speaker 2 that was for no reason, actually.

Speaker 2 Marilyn Gandert was so brutally murdered by these three people that she knew

Speaker 2 that she was

Speaker 2 kind to, in many ways that they probably didn't deserve.

Speaker 2 The mastermind behind that murder, if you can even call her that, was Marilyn's daughter-in-law, Alyssa Bickett.

Speaker 2 For most of her life, Alyssa was given a place to live for free.

Speaker 2 Her husband and mother-in-law provided that for her. But when the time came for Alyssa to provide for herself, she lashed out and decided to do something truly horrific.

Speaker 2 Alyssa felt entitled. She felt that Marilyn owed her a home.

Speaker 2 When Marilyn refused to give Alyssa what she wanted, Alyssa planned and carried out her murder. And perhaps worst of all,

Speaker 2 she made her own son kill his grandmother. And now he's spending decades of his life behind bars.

Speaker 2 Ironically, Alyssa was able to avoid paying rent. And you and I are the beneficiary.
of that privilege.

Speaker 2 Beneficiary or benefactor?

Speaker 2 What's the right word for that?

Speaker 2 Anyway, Alyssa has a, you know, respectable, decent place to live now.

Speaker 2 Still, for the rest of her life. Still doesn't have to pay rent.
For the next 30 years, she'll have a free roof over her head.

Speaker 2 She'll be given three square meals a day, and she won't have to pay for any of it.

Speaker 2 Though, I doubt her accommodations are what she was hoping for.

Speaker 2 Who knows? I mean, I hear prisons these days have free basic cable and even some restricted internet access.

Speaker 2 Doesn't sound quite that bad compared to the 9 to 5 cubicle life, if you ask me.

Speaker 2 If Alyssa's fate tells us anything, gives us any sort of lesson whatsoever,

Speaker 2 it proves that a sense of entitlement can be a very dangerous thing.

Speaker 2 As much as we might not want to admit it, there is at least a little bit of entitlement in all of us.

Speaker 2 So try and be sure to keep yours in check and remember that nobody owes you anything.

Speaker 2 Not your mother-in-law, not some true crime podcast producer.

Speaker 2 Nobody.

Speaker 2 owes you a fucking thing.

Speaker 2 So, if you want something,

Speaker 2 you're going to have to do the work.

Speaker 2 You're going to have to go out there, and just like in the old days, you're going to have to earn it.

Speaker 2 Oh, one more thing before we go.

Speaker 2 If you want to get any of the schnazzi new merch over at store.sornscale.com, make sure you go to sword and scale.com first, log in with your plus membership, and click the store link on the top of the page so that you get your discount.

Speaker 2 It will be automatically applied at checkout as long as you click that link. All right, that's going to do it.
Until next time,

Speaker 12 stay safe.

Speaker 4 Hey there, this is Jenny from Tacoma.

Speaker 11 This is a message for Gertie.

Speaker 13 Gertie, you are a goddess. I am appalled to find that people are giving you trouble.
For all of you out there who are, and you know who you are, this is a community of assholes, not assholes.

Speaker 13 So please give Gertie a break and praise her. All right, thanks for everything.

Speaker 6 Have a good day.