The Wise Men

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Speaker 1 We three kings of Orient are.

Speaker 1 They're one of the most recognizable parts of the Nativity story. The three kings, or wise men, who followed the star of Bethlehem to the stable where Jesus of Nazareth was born.

Speaker 1 But who were these wise men, these Magi from the East? How were they referred to in the Gospel? Where did they come from? What was so significant about the three gifts they brought with them?

Speaker 1 And how has their story evolved over the centuries? It's the Ancients on History Hit.

Speaker 1 I'm Tristan Hughes, your host, and today this December, we're exploring the history, the context, behind the story of the three wise men.

Speaker 1 It's a fascinating part of the Nativity story, story and we're going to explore it in depth with Reverend Professor Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones, a stalwart and fan favourite of the Ancients podcast.

Speaker 1 We're going to dissect the story of the wise men as told in the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament, looking into the historical context, before then exploring their portrayal in other sources, both in ancient Roman art and in other texts that we tell the story of the wise men with some interesting differences, including where the number of these wise men...

Speaker 1 well it isn't always three

Speaker 1 as always with lloyd this was a brilliant chat he's such a great communicator and i hope you enjoy

Speaker 14 lloyd hello my friend welcome back to the podcast always such a pleasure tristan hello and hello all to your to your listeners as well great to be back with you all I mean, it's always a pleasure having you on the podcast.

Speaker 15 We've had you on recently for Darius the Great and for the Tower of Babel.

Speaker 15 And we have talked in the past about these figures that are mentioned from the Bible and then kind of dissecting the stories behind them and the history of these figures and how they're mentioned.

Speaker 15 And the wise men, as it's nearing Christmas, I mean, it seemed like another great topic to talk about because we've all heard of the wise men. They are such a key part of the nativity story.

Speaker 14 Yes, yes, they are. And of course, they come to us in kind of different guises in a way, don't they? Because, you know, they are.
the three wise men, they're the three kings.

Speaker 14 So, you know, we approach them differently. But they all are part of our sort of Christmas consciousness, really, through a myriad of Christmas carols or Christmas cards.

Speaker 14 You know, it's a popular image to see. As I always say, you know, I think the Bible is an ancient source which is ripe for plowing.

Speaker 14 So I refuse to treat it any differently than I would, you know, a work by... Plato or a cuneiform tablet.
You know, these are all valid ancient sources.

Speaker 14 Of course, what the Bible has beyond that is another level which people engage in, of course, and that is a text of faith as well.

Speaker 14 So whenever we enter into any kind of historical debate about the Bible, obviously we always have to take into account that there are people who read this on multiple levels.

Speaker 14 And I think that's what's really interesting about the process of biblical scholarship is the dealing with the idea of history and faith together.

Speaker 15 I mean, it's also interesting because in the past, we've covered topics like the Babylonian captivity and the Tower of Babel.

Speaker 15 So stories from the Old Testament, but of course, the birth of Jesus, the nativity, the three wise men, we're going into the New Testaments now.

Speaker 15 Is this, for you, when you're approaching a topic like this, do you have to have a different perspective, a different mindset when looking at New Testament compared to Old?

Speaker 14 Good question. Yes and no.

Speaker 14 The yes part is that we're entering into a Greco-Roman world in which Judaism sits.

Speaker 14 But the no part is we have to take all of that Hebrew Bible scholarship with us into this world as well, because there is no disconnect suddenly between, you know, an old and a new testament in the Jewish mind of the first century.

Speaker 14 And of course, the gospel writers, Paul and his epistles are all rooted not only in the world of Greece and Rome, but also in the world of the ancient Near East and the Hebrew Bible as well.

Speaker 14 So you've got to carry all of those things with you simultaneously.

Speaker 14 So I suppose you do need sort of different training or coming from it from a different angle, but you also have to maintain all of that Old Testament background too.

Speaker 15 Well, let's now delve into the story of the three wise men and let's start with the traditional story.

Speaker 15 Now, which gospel, I mean, which particular source do we have, Lloyd, for the story of the three wise men?

Speaker 14 Well, they only occur in the Gospel of Matthew.

Speaker 14 And this is maybe a surprise to some people, you know, because when we receive those Christmas cards and we put up our Christmas creche, then of course what we do, we amalgamate the story of the shepherds with the wise men very often.

Speaker 14 Now the shepherds are only mentioned in St. Luke's gospel.
They are particular to that. And the wise men only enter into Matthew's gospel.

Speaker 14 So never together. Wow.
Never the twain will meet. Absolutely not.

Speaker 14 The idea of bringing these together in what we call a gospel harmony has been something which has been around since the medieval period. Really, it was St.

Speaker 14 Francis who created the first kind of Christmas crash where all of those figures get together.

Speaker 14 But really by the 19th century, sort of popular family Bibles and children's Bibles were beginning to amalgamate to harmonize these two gospel accounts.

Speaker 14 But the truth is that Matthew's gospel, in almost every way, contradicts Luke's gospel account of the Nativity. They were written with very different agendas.
for a very different audience. So St.

Speaker 14 Luke's gospel is very much much written for the Gentiles.

Speaker 15 Sorry, Lloyd, who are the Gentiles?

Speaker 14 The Gentiles are the non-Jews. So these are the Greeks and the Romans in the wider world out there.
And he's trying to proclaim the gospel to non-Jews.

Speaker 14 Whereas Matthew's gospel is absolutely focused on Jewish identity, the Jewish past, Jewish traditions. And so the agendas for these two things are very different.
St.

Speaker 14 Luke is all about making the unvoiced voiced. So shepherds, the very poor people, Mary herself, of course, you know, singing the magnificat, my soul magnifies the Lord.

Speaker 14 God has, you know, cast down the mighty and are raising up the poor. This is Luke's agenda.
Matthew's agenda is completely different.

Speaker 14 And the other thing to note is that of the Gospels, it is only Matthew and Luke who have a birth story for Jesus. Mark, our earliest gospel, doesn't have one at all.

Speaker 14 It was of no interest to Mark, and he's our first gospel, probably about 60 AD, so 30 years after the crucifixion. And John completely goes his own way.

Speaker 14 And of course, the opening of John's Gospel is in the beginning was the word. So, you know, it's a far more kind of philosophic idea of the birth of Christ.

Speaker 14 So it's only that the nativity that our whole Christmas is built around is only based on two of the gospels. They say completely different things.

Speaker 15 Well, let's delve into the Matthew version with the wise men. And I think, first of all, let's go through the account of the wise men, and then we can dissect it, as I know you've done.

Speaker 15 You've done previously, Lloyd, with your lectures and so on. So let's talk through it.

Speaker 14 Okay, so what we have in Matthew chapter 2, and it's just verses 1 to 12, so it's only 12 verses of the Bible that these guys appear in, is that we are told that Jesus is born in Bethlehem in the days of Herod.

Speaker 14 So this has to be, we presume, Herod the Great. And then Matthew says that, behold, Magi from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, where is he who is born the king of the Judeans?

Speaker 14 For we've seen his star in the east, and we've come to honor him, literally to prostrate themselves in front of him.

Speaker 14 Herod, one of the great paranoids of history, suddenly starts pressing them for information about, you know, who is this kid who's supposed to be born, who's going to be a king?

Speaker 14 And they say, well, we don't know yet. We're on our way to find him.

Speaker 14 And Herod presses them and says, well once you found him please come back and let me know all about him so you know I can offer him my homage too so the Magi kind of pay lip service to that and off they go guided by this star until it leads them to the little town of Bethlehem and there they see Mary and the infant in her arms and they go into what is actually called a cave in this point and they pay homage to the child and they offer offer gifts of gold, of incense, not frankincense, incense is what it says, so it could be any kind of resin, and also of myrrh.

Speaker 14 And then they have a collective dream, and dreams play a very insignificant role in Matthew's gospel, in which they're told, don't go back to Herod's court, say nothing about this.

Speaker 14 And we're told that they return home to the east another route. And that's it.
That's all we get.

Speaker 14 But it's a very important moment because in the Christian tradition, this takes place on the 6th of January on a feast which the Christian church from at least the 4th century has named Epiphany.

Speaker 14 So Epiphany, of course, is a Greek word and it means a revelation or a manifestation.

Speaker 14 So if you think about it, you know, in Matthew, there is no other kind of presentation of this Christ child to anybody else.

Speaker 14 So this is the first time that the world sees the newborn Messiah, essentially. And it's an important one in Matthew because the child is seen by non-Jews.

Speaker 14 The news of this child now can spread to the Roman world, essentially, and beyond the confines of the Roman world.

Speaker 14 So that's the importance of it, together with the three gifts that are presented, because of course they are highly symbolic gifts in themselves.

Speaker 14 So we have gold, which obviously is the great signifier of kingship itself. So this heralds the kingship of the infant Jesus.

Speaker 14 Then we have incense, and incense emphasizes Matthew's use of Christ, obviously, as the son of God.

Speaker 14 So as a kind of living God, you know, he receives incense, which any god in the Greco-Roman pantheon would get, you know, clouds of incense.

Speaker 14 And then myrrh, of course, is highly significant because myrrh was an embalming resin. So it was used in particular for the preparation of bodies after death.

Speaker 14 And of course, this heralds the idea that the child is born for one purpose, and that is to die to save the sins of mankind.

Speaker 14 So in a way, Christ's Christology is emphasized through those three gifts themselves. And that's why, actually, the gifts are more important than the givers, in a way.

Speaker 14 That's what Matthew seems to be saying in there.

Speaker 15 Well, shall we save the gifts till last then, though, and start on the givers themselves?

Speaker 15 And it was interesting, as you were talking through that passage right near the start, I noted that you mentioned the word, you didn't say wise men, you said the word Magai.

Speaker 14 Well, it is the specific word that Matthew uses. And he's taking here a word which has been around in the Greek world for at least 400 years.

Speaker 14 And it refers to a priestly caste from Iran, so ancient Persia. The Magai were already around in the Achaemenid period.

Speaker 14 These were, according to Herodotus, the kind of living repositories of ancient Persian religious traditions.

Speaker 14 So they knew the hymns to the Persian gods, they knew the rituals, they kept the scriptures of what we might call the Zoroastrian faith.

Speaker 14 Now, by Matthew's time, we're into a period called the Parthian era in Persian history. And the Parthians were certainly what we might call proto-Zoroastrians.

Speaker 14 And so they continued using these Magi in their religious rituals. They were a kind of caste of their own.
So you couldn't apparently train to be a Magi.

Speaker 14 You were born into families of Magi who kind of then, you know, ran the show. They used the ritual paraphernalia.

Speaker 14 One of the things that they were instructed with doing was looking after the sacred fire, the non-dying flame. So they are there to keep the flame burning.

Speaker 14 And of course, Zoroastrianism also believes in the purification of water, of earth, of air.

Speaker 14 And therefore, therefore the rituals all operate around this and also with the formula which the Zoroastrians have, which is about always speaking the truth, always aiming to do good deeds and always aiming to say good thoughts as well, to have good thoughts and to speak good thoughts.

Speaker 14 And so they're part of this very, very long tradition of Iranian priestly caste. Now, Matthew doesn't say essentially where they're from.
He just says Magi from the East.

Speaker 14 But I think we can read into that. Basically, it is Magi from Parthia.
That's really what he's thinking.

Speaker 14 So when Matthew thinks about the East, his readers, his listeners would automatically think of Parthia. Because Parthia, don't forget, was the great superpower of the East in this period.

Speaker 14 It was the continual thorn in the side of the burgeoning Roman Empire.

Speaker 15 And Judea as well. I mean, Herod had had to, you know, to fight when he gained control of Judea.
He had to wrestle control from a Parthian-supported figure.

Speaker 14 Precisely, you know, the Parthians at one point had penetrated into Judea, and Herod and his family had had to run for safety from them. So they were a huge military machine.

Speaker 14 But also, their culture was spreading and taking hold in this period, including ideas from Zoroastrianism, for, for instance, the creator God, the invisible God.

Speaker 14 All of this was really influencing what we might call second temple Judaism and had been doing so, really, since the return from the exile.

Speaker 14 So I think Matthew is drawing very clearly on this idea of the Parthian Magi. Now, of course, Magi is related to our word magic.

Speaker 14 And I think there was a sense of these Magi being magicians in the Greco-Roman world too. They didn't know...
you know, everything about these men.

Speaker 14 So they thought, oh, there must be kind of magical practices that they do out there in the East as well.

Speaker 14 That's always been a kind of Orientalist trope that Western writers and Westerners generally have had. And so I think they aligned the practice of religion with concepts of magic.

Speaker 14 And in fact, that's not uncomfortable in a historical sense. You know, you would be hard pressed to put a hair between what is defined as religion, what is defined as magical practice.

Speaker 14 And so there's this element that they are not just priests, but also magicians.

Speaker 14 And then beyond that, of course, they're also drawing on another ancient near eastern tradition of wisdom these magi being the repositories of wisdom as well of long traditions of things and i think what happens in matthew's gospel is that it also collapses into that the idea of things like astronomy and astrology of course which you know the ancient chaldeans babylians babylonians the zodiac and all of that yes precisely and don't forget babylon now is part of the parthian empire at this this age as well.

Speaker 14 And with the link, of course, to the star in the story, then you can see how this whole thing about priests, wise men, magicians, all of it becomes mashed together, really.

Speaker 14 And it's very, very hard to disassociate any of that.

Speaker 14 And then the final element we've got in all of that, of course, which Matthew doesn't say himself, as we've said in the beginning, we call them we three kings, right?

Speaker 15 Yes, that seems quite a jump to go from magicians and wise men to kings.

Speaker 14 But in fact, the use of the kingly title for them does not come in until the 12th century. It's a Middle Ages thing.

Speaker 14 And we can virtually put it down to the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick Barbarossa, who allegedly found the bones of the wise men and installed them in Cologne Cathedral, where you can still see them and honor them today in a beautiful gilded shrine in the middle of Cologne Cathedral.

Speaker 14 And he began to call them the three kings.

Speaker 14 And I think that's really interesting because it's part of that whole medieval ideology, isn't it, of kingship, where Christ bestows kingship on those who are worthy.

Speaker 14 So I think Frederick Barbarossa is using that kind of theology to engrandize himself as well. So that's what we get: the Magi as kings for the first time.

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Speaker 15 Shall we also talk about the star in the east? I mean, Lloyd, what can we explore here for that part of the story? Maybe, I guess, the importance of stars at that time as signs of key events, maybe?

Speaker 14 Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, you know, astronomy and astrology had always played an enormously important part in Near Eastern traditions, and indeed in Greco-Roman traditions as well.

Speaker 14 And people looked to the heavens for omens, for confirmation of things.

Speaker 14 And there was a very, very long tradition of this, especially in Babylonia, where we have preserved, even today, hundreds and hundreds of astronomical diaries.

Speaker 14 So these are observations of the stars and the movements of the planets, which are recorded by professional astrologers who then write down their findings. and are used to predict events.

Speaker 14 It was a very serious business in antiquity. Now, when it comes to the star of Bethlehem, tomes and tomes have been written about trying to identify what this star might have been.

Speaker 14 Might have been, you know, an early showing of Halley's Comet. And of course, you know, we can pin down times and places.

Speaker 14 And we do know around about 4 BCE, there was a comet which made an enormous impact.

Speaker 14 It wasn't the only one in the period, but certainly there's nothing unusual in Matthew's Gospel about star searching. It goes on a lot.
But

Speaker 14 I think it's there in Matthew for two purposes. First of all, Matthew is drawing on Old Testament Hebrew Bible precedents.

Speaker 14 And in the book of Numbers, there is a prophecy which predicts this gleaming star will herald the coming of the Messiah.

Speaker 14 So he's keen to draw his readers or his listeners into this Old Testament prophecy. But I also think, you see, we should read the New Testament, including the four Gospels, on different levels.

Speaker 14 And one, of course, can be a faith journey, but the other one can be, I think,

Speaker 14 a subtle attack

Speaker 14 on the world in which Christianity was born, and that is the Roman world. Now, Matthew, I think, in his gospel, throughout the gospel, very subtly has a go at the Romans.

Speaker 14 Now, he can't do this conspicuously, but, you know, with any text, you can do alternative readings, okay?

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 14 if you go into a gospel, including Matthew, with an alternative view, then you can begin to see actually there is a critique.

Speaker 14 of the secular world, the world that cannot accept or will not accept Christ as its king. And we really see that, I think, in the Nativity story.

Speaker 14 First of all, of course, we've got the rejection of Herod. You know, Herod comes over as this terrible king, but also, of course, a collaborator with Rome.
That's what he was famous for by the Jews.

Speaker 14 But the use of the star is something I think that Matthew uses

Speaker 14 to

Speaker 14 downplay or even contradict. the use of a star that had appeared in Rome.

Speaker 14 So we know that the Emperor Augustus, when he first comes to power after the death of his uncle Julius Caesar, he witnesses a comet in the skies over Rome.

Speaker 14 And he says, this comet is Julius Caesar being deified. So for Roman astrologers, they saw this blazing star and they said, oh, this is clear evidence that Caesar has become a god.

Speaker 14 And Augustus, you know, who is pretty adept at propaganda, I think we can all agree, cashes in on this and says, yes, indeed, that is what it is.

Speaker 14 And he begins to issue coins with his head on one side and on the other side, this blazing star. And of course, that coin gets circulated around the whole empire.

Speaker 14 Of course, and a couple of them must have fallen into Judea as well. So this is an image that people would have been familiar with.

Speaker 14 He also issues a coin showing the deified Julius Caesar with a star and a tail, a comet's tail, above his head as well.

Speaker 14 And even poets like Ovid in his Metamorphoses talk about this star heralding the coming of this new Son of God. And that's the title that Augustus now begins to use for himself.

Speaker 14 He is the Divas Philius. So he is the Son of God.
And that, of course, is... the principal title that Matthew uses throughout his gospel for Jesus as well.

Speaker 14 So can you see how basically he is taking the political situation of Rome and saying, uh-uh,

Speaker 14 do not apply these things to the Roman Emperor because that is a dead end. There is no kingdom here.
The real empire is the empire of Christ, who was heralded with a star.

Speaker 14 That's the star that we need to look at. And the only true Son of God is Jesus Christ himself.

Speaker 15 And it's also quite interesting because I remember in a previous chat, we flirted with the book of Revelation and you were saying how things like the horror of Babylon, it was a subtle dig actually towards the Roman Empire.

Speaker 15 And you can actually see another subtle dig potentially with the Nativity scene as well.

Speaker 14 So it's interesting how, you know, so I think you can read the whole, the whole of the New Testament with a kind of anti-Roman lens, but they have to do it carefully, you know, because, you know, this is a world of real Christian persecution, don't forget, you know, but they do it.

Speaker 14 And if you know the code, then you can crack it.

Speaker 15 We've talked about the givers, but before we go on to like depictions of the wise men, the Magi, and then the Magi at Southampton, let's talk a bit more then about the gifts, because as you highlighted earlier, this feels like the central part.

Speaker 15 This is the most important part of the story, you'd argue.

Speaker 14 Yes, absolutely. Because

Speaker 14 these gifts, which in a way look kind of innocuous, these are the theological linchpins of the story of Jesus according to Matthew. His glorification as a king, his glorification as a God,

Speaker 14 and his ultimate suffering and death. So basically, these three gifts span the whole biography of Jesus, according to the Matthew Gospel, that is to say.

Speaker 14 So they are of intense importance, really, to Matthew's method of kind of predicting what Christ's story is going to be for his early listeners and readers.

Speaker 15 Well, let's move on to the depictions, because I find this so interesting, Lloyd. So you have the story written in the Gospel of Matthew.

Speaker 15 How long is it before this story does spread out of Judea and into the Roman world, or maybe beyond the borders of the Roman world? And you then start seeing actual depictions of the wise men?

Speaker 14 Well, remarkably, it doesn't take too long at all. This is a story that really holds, it really grips people.

Speaker 14 So the first ever image I've discovered, and I don't think there are earlier ones, is in the catacombs of Rome, and that is the catacomb of Priscilla.

Speaker 14 And that dates to the early second century CE, we think.

Speaker 15 Do you think she's a noble woman who's practicing Christianity at the time?

Speaker 14 Highly likely, and probably one of these kind of noble women that use their homes for church meetings and this kind of thing, you know.

Speaker 14 So she's obviously a woman of influence to have her own catacomb to begin with. But there's a very, now very fading fresco.
painted on the wall there, which shows the Virgin Mary

Speaker 14 seated with the Christ child on her lap. So there's that first image, that powerful image resonate.

Speaker 14 And then we have these three wise men coming before her, one depicted in a kind of green, one red, and another sort of in a brown, which is very faded indeed.

Speaker 14 We can't quite see details of their faces, but we can see that they're offering something. And what is really fascinating, however, is that they are all in Parthian dress.

Speaker 14 They are all depicted as Easterners, as Parthians. And I think

Speaker 14 that tradition of depicting them as Parthians obviously is drawing from Matthew's gospel, but also is another one of those nudges against Rome as well.

Speaker 14 Because during the Julio-Claudian period and into the second century, it became a standard practice.

Speaker 14 to use the image of the Parthian, Parthian captives, war captives, subdued Parthians, to show the grandeur of Rome. So, what we often have is, you know, Togartate Romans

Speaker 14 being shown homage by kneeling Parthians in their long-sleeved tunics and their baggy trousers, this ultimate mark of the Orient dress.

Speaker 14 And I think that what Matthew does is obviously plays up on this idea that these Parthians are coming to pay homage to the infant Jesus.

Speaker 14 but it enters into the visual repertoire very early on in early Christianity, in that case. And they are distinctly Parthian.

Speaker 14 I mean, we have another adoration scene for another female tomb, actually, of a woman called Severa at the beginning of the probably the third century.

Speaker 14 And there is no doubt here that the three wise men are in their Parthian outfits. They're wearing those Phrygian caps.

Speaker 14 They have little cloaks on, and they're all proffering their gifts before a seated Virgin Mary.

Speaker 14 And from there on in, on a series of early Christian sarcophagi on ivories, carved ivories, of various standards of craftsmanship, we have this repeated motif of a seated virgin and child, and these three Oriental Magi bringing their gifts, always wearing Parthian clothing.

Speaker 14 And sometimes even they have their camels to accompany them as well.

Speaker 15 This is what I wanted to get to next, Lloyd. I was like, what this is almost one of the most important bits for me.

Speaker 14 When do we see that great addition to the wise men's story, the addition of camels the camels are there by the early fourth century certainly and they're kind of interestingly distributed amongst the wise men they very often look over the wise men's shoulders and that's when you then get also the build-up of a menagerie in these scenes so you get the ox and the ass and all of that kind of stuff building up at this time too but we also have

Speaker 14 oh i mean exquisite mosaics from the late fourth into the fifth century. And, you know, a wander around Rome is really worth it for this, you know, spot your wise men.

Speaker 14 In Santa Maria Maggiore, for instance, there are some very early fifth century stunning, colorful mosaics of the three wise men in their very, very distinctive Parthian outfits.

Speaker 14 But I suppose the finest example of them all is if you go to Ravenna in East Italy, of course, there they are represented in the basilica of Santa Polinaro Novo, and it's probably the most beautiful representation we have of them.

Speaker 15 I mean, Loir, before we delve into the details of that, is it the case that before Christianity becomes the main official religion of the Roman Empire, you get these couple of almost kind of secretive cases of the wise men, and afterwards you see more elaborate, you said, say, mosaics, beautiful depictions.

Speaker 14 Absolutely. After Constantine and the conversion of the Empire, I mean, they become conspicuous.

Speaker 14 And I think why the wise men become so much more important than, say, the shepherds of Luke's gospel is because of the idea of paying homage to Christ, as you would pay homage to the emperor, and also the universality of the experience as well.

Speaker 14 These wise men come from afar. And I think that really appeals to the sensitivity of Christian Roman emperors as well, of course.
So you see them in abundance.

Speaker 14 And the Ravenima's aids are absolutely stunning. The three of them are shown very distinctly as well.
One of them with a grey beard. and for the first time they are named as well.

Speaker 14 So we get in this particular lineup, we get Balfazar, we get Melchior, and we get Gaspar in this particular lot. But in fact, over the centuries, the names change quite a lot.

Speaker 14 So there's variations on the theme. So we have Gaspar, Jasper, Jaspas, Gathshpa.
Balshah, Belturza,

Speaker 14 variations on these three names, essentially. In another one of the Ravenna reliefs, actually, this is the very famous depiction of the Empress Theodora.

Speaker 15 Oh, yes, with Justinian and Belisarius, yes, beautiful.

Speaker 14 She is wearing a magnificent purple robe, and embroidered into the hem of that robe are the scene of the three wise men again.

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Speaker 15 Look, we focus on the Roman world.

Speaker 15 And I mean, just before we go on to names and numbers and outside the Gospel of Matthew, do you ever see any surviving art from, well, the place where the wise men supposedly came from, from Parthia, from Iran and Iraq?

Speaker 14 Do we have depictions outside of the Roman empire yes and no so i mean we can go to dura europa which is in modern-day syria and there in some early churches but also depicted in a synagogue are scenes of parthian dressed biblical characters so xerxes in the book of esther for instance but we can't be specific you know obviously in a synagogue you're not going to get representations of gospel characters so we don't get a holistic representation of the three wise men as far as we can see.

Speaker 14 But what we can tell from the Dura Europus images is that the Western images of these Parthians really are very true to the source materials, I suppose. They are definitely meant to be Parthians.

Speaker 15 Now, does Matthew actually say three?

Speaker 14 Never. Never, never, never.
He never says three wise men. He never says three Magi.
He simply says Magi from the East came to Jerusalem bearing gift.

Speaker 14 They're three gifts. That is kind of defined, as we can see from the early church, the number of Magi that are supposed to be around.

Speaker 14 But in fact, there's nothing to stop us believing that there weren't two Magi and they brought an extra gift, or there were 20 Magi and they just shared the cost between them.

Speaker 14 So Matthew is not specific about that whatsoever.

Speaker 14 And so that leaves big gaps in the imagination for other people to get involved with, because we have to remember that in early Christianity, there were other traditions, including Nativity stories, which didn't make the final cut of the New Testament.

Speaker 15 But these are the apocryphal gospels and stuff.

Speaker 14 Yeah, apocryphal Gospels, exactly. So one of the best known is the Pseudo-Matthew.

Speaker 14 So as the title suggests, you know, based on the original Gospel of Matthew, in which there are, again, not a number specified, but they take their three gifts and they give them to Mary.

Speaker 14 And in this Gospel, and we give them something of their feelings, they are filled with joy at seeing the Christ child. So that's something that's extra to Matthew.

Speaker 14 But then we have an amazing sixth-century text, which was found in Egypt, and we call this the Arabic infancy narrative, which is really quite remarkable because there, after

Speaker 14 the wise men, numberless again, give their gifts, Mary unwraps the swaddling bands of the infant Jesus and she gives them to the wise men as a gift to take back home with them. And

Speaker 14 when they get home, they take these swaddling bands and they burn them in the sacred fire. So there's a step back to Zoroastrianism again.

Speaker 14 But when the fire dies, the swaddling bands are untouched.

Speaker 14 And so the wise men recognize that these are relics of a holy child. And so they begin to convert the East to Christianity.

Speaker 14 And they are joined a couple of decades later by Saint Thomas, one of the disciples, who begins to also work with them as well. So that's an elaboration.
on the original story from Matthew.

Speaker 15 This is a story of what happened next almost.

Speaker 14 Yeah, yeah, what happens when they got got home. But we also have, I think, that the most magnificent retelling of all comes from a very strong Syriac tradition.

Speaker 14 And don't forget, the Syrian church in antiquity was

Speaker 14 the main contender, really. You know, it was huge.
And, you know, if history had just gone a little bit differently, we could all today be Syriac Christians.

Speaker 14 You know, that was such a powerful tradition there.

Speaker 14 We have a text which dates to the fifth century, but clearly was several hundred years old before.

Speaker 14 So we can date it, I think, to the second century, in which we have, brace yourself, not three wise men, but 12 wise men.

Speaker 15 That's a lot of camels there as well, though.

Speaker 14 That's a lot of camels. They are the heirs of families of wise men.
Their names are all given to us. They're all Persianate names.
And the names of their fathers are all given to us.

Speaker 14 So we've got 24 wise men all together in this particular story. And they, the 12 of them, travel to Jerusalem.
They find the baby in Bethlehem. They pay homage to him with their three gifts.

Speaker 14 But the difference is that each one of the wise men, each of the 12, gives Mary a coin of gold as well. So, you know, she's got 12 coins plus the incense, plus the myrrh in that tradition as well.

Speaker 14 And it's a great shame, really, that that story isn't so well known, but because it was a real contender for many, many centuries, centuries, it's now preserved in a text which scholars call the Revelation of the Magi.

Speaker 14 So it's that moment when they see the Christ child, and they too are tasked with converting the East to Christianity.

Speaker 15 This leads me to another question, which can concern these accounts and other accounts, because it seems a similar thread throughout, that you have these important figures in another religion.

Speaker 15 being involved in this key story of the birth of Jesus and of course with the story of Christianity. Do you think that's an interesting thing to explore? How you have figures, you know, important,

Speaker 15 wise figures from another religion that isn't one of the Abrahamic religions, very key and central to the Nativity story?

Speaker 14 I think it's very important. And I think it's the synergy between what we can call Zoroastrianism and...

Speaker 14 Judaism and Christianity had been simmering away for centuries. And I think we can see Zoroastrian influences in Judaism by the the second temple period and certainly in early Christianity.

Speaker 14 So I think Matthew is picking up on something which is genuine. And I think it also allows his audience into a more universal picture of what Christ is all about.

Speaker 14 Because if you think of how Matthew presents the infant Jesus, what he's essentially doing is he's retelling the story of Moses for a Christian Jewish audience.

Speaker 14 Because, of course, what happens after the wise men go home, according to Matthew, is that we have this terrible slaughter of the innocents in Bethlehem, which of course would immediately have reminded listeners of the slaughter of the boys in Egypt under the Pharaoh as well.

Speaker 14 So Jesus is presented as a second Moses in Matthew's gospel.

Speaker 14 And so the inclusion of the wise men into that story says to the Jewish listeners, readers of that story, look, there's also a bigger framework in which this new Messiah can be placed as well.

Speaker 14 Yes, he's here for the Jews as the new Moses, but also there is the epiphany that he has come for the Gentiles as well.

Speaker 15 Well, this is absolutely fascinating.

Speaker 15 You mentioned earlier figures like Calvin, and I'm presuming for you, it must also be interesting, knowing all of this about the wise men, the original story, but also these other stories outside of Matthew, then seeing how over the centuries, medieval Renaissance, even into more recent history, I guess seeing figures that have been exploring this story, you know, the great debates they have in regards to the whole nature of the wise men.

Speaker 15 I mean, the legacy of the wise men is another podcast in its own right.

Speaker 14 I think that's what's really fascinating about biblical materials, you know, because they've had such an important afterlife.

Speaker 14 Really, you know, the biblical characters themselves, as they appear in scriptures, are simply the tip of the iceberg, aren't they?

Speaker 14 Because it's what we've done with them over the centuries, which really gives them their cogency and makes them such persuasive characters, really.

Speaker 14 It's the reception history, which I find really fascinating.

Speaker 15 Lloyd, this has been absolutely fantastic. I mean, is there any reading or anything you'd recommend around this if people want to learn more?

Speaker 14 I would recommend, for a real alternative, you know, sort of Christmas, if you wanted to do that, read the Revelation of the Magi, which is now available in a really good English translation by Brent Blandau, and it's available in hardback and paperback.

Speaker 14 Google that and you'll find copies of it. It's a really fascinating read.

Speaker 15 Brilliant. Well, Lloyd, it just goes to me to say thank you so much, as always, for taking the time to come back on the ancients.

Speaker 14 You're very, very welcome.

Speaker 1 Well, there you go. There was Reverend Professor Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones talking all things the wise men.
I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Thank you for listening.

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Speaker 1 That's enough from me, and I will see you in the next episode.

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Speaker 2 Dashing through the store, Dave's looking for a gift. One you can't ignore.
Run out the socks he picks. I know, I'm putting them back.

Speaker 4 Hey, Dave, here's a tip: put scratchers on your list.

Speaker 5 Oh, scratchers, good idea.

Speaker 6 It's an easy shopping trip.

Speaker 2 We're glad we could assist.

Speaker 7 Thanks, random singing people.

Speaker 9 So be like Dave this holiday and give the gift of play.

Speaker 10 Scratchers from the California lottery.

Speaker 11 A little play can make your day.

Speaker 12 Please play responsibly. Must be 18 years or older to purchase play or claim.