The Sumerians

When you're driving, nothing's better than binging on a podcast.

Well, except maybe binging on rewards from Marathon.

That's because you can earn at least five cents a gallon in rewards every time you fuel up, saving up to a buck a gallon.

Plus, signing up is easy.

Do it straight from the pump or at marathonrewards.com.

So start binging on savings with rewards from Marathon today.

And don't miss the Thomas Rhett Veteran Boots Tour this summer, fueled by Marathon.

I participate in locations.

Terms and conditions apply

more than 5,000 years ago in what is today southern Iraq One of the world's first civilizations emerged.

A civilization often credited with the invention of writing, the wheel, and cities.

The Sumerians.

The Sumerians are a people that you have probably heard of, but might not know too much about.

And in today's episode of the Ancients, we are re-releasing our episode from a few years back where we finally delved into their story.

We're going to explore their cities, their language, their artefacts, and so much more.

This is the story of the Sumerians, with our guest, the Assyriologist and great friend of the podcast, Dr.

Paul Covid.

Paul, it is wonderful to have you on the podcast today.

Thank you very much.

Delighted to be here.

And it's great to be doing it in person at the Ashmolean Museum.

And this is an incredible place when talking about the Sumerians, isn't it, straight off the bat.

We're extraordinarily lucky here.

I mean, we've got such a rich collection, which means we can explore 10,000 years of ancient Middle Eastern history.

And of course, within that, a great deal of material which relates to the Sumerians.

First of all, Cool, this is a really intriguing ancient Mesopotamian culture, isn't it?

Because it feels almost, we mentioned it just before we started talking, like the Phoenicians and the Assyrians.

The Sumerians, it's another name that I'm sure most people have heard of, but probably don't know actually too much about.

Well the Sumerians may seem familiar because of course they've been credited in lots of books, usually just the first few pages when exploring history, with the invention of writing, sometimes with the invention of the wheel, with the invention of cities.

So they sit very much in people's minds, if they know anything at all, as the roots of our modern way of life.

And so, who are the Sumerians?

When and where are we talking?

Well, traditionally, one thinks of the Sumerians as a people who occupied the southern region of modern Iraq, ancient Mesopotamia at the head of the Persian Gulf.

And in a period between roughly 3500 and 2000 BC,

they created some of the world's first cities.

So this is before the Assyrians, before the Akkadians, before the Babylonians, this is going back, as you say, millennia.

So this is the moment we move from prehistory to history.

Because again, it is that moment when writing is developed.

So what sorts of sources, I think I know the answer to this already then, Paul.

What sorts of sources do we have when trying to learn more about the Sumerians?

Well, there is our challenge, because of course we have lots of excavated sites dating to this period, but we see the emergence of technologies of writing, which begin to then express spoken languages.

And by around...

3000 BC, 2800 BC, scholars are able to read in that writing the Sumerian language.

We will delve into the language, but first of all, you mentioned the scholars figuring out the Sumerian language.

So let's actually talk about the discovery of the Sumerians, first of all, because this is interesting in itself, because I guess in human history, our knowledge of the Sumerians, it comes quite late.

It does.

The Sumerians were unknown until about 150 years ago.

So whereas people in the West could read about the Assyrians, they could read about the Babylonians, the Phoenicians, the other people of the ancient Middle East through both the classical sources, but also primarily the biblical texts.

The Hebrew Bible recorded stories of these people.

But the Sumerians are not mentioned.

And so when the ancient texts of Mesopotamia began to be uncovered and read, what was first discovered were the languages of some of these familiar people, the languages of the Assyrians and the Babylonians.

And it was only through close analysis of those texts that the Sumerians began to emerge.

So talk me through how these people and who these people were, who deciphered, who discovered the Sumerian language.

Well, the work began really in the middle of the 19th century with big excavations in northern Iraq at places like Nineveh and Nimrud.

And there was revealed lots and lots of texts using the cuneiform script of Mesopotamia, this wedge-shaped writing system, and scholars began to investigate what these signs actually represented.

Lots of scholars engaged in this activity in France and in England.

And one scholar in particular made a fundamental breakthrough.

And this was a man who gets very little credit in the literature, someone called Edward Hinks.

He's actually a vicar in Ireland.

And he was a brilliant linguist.

And in 1846, he realised that these cuneiform signs were actually syllabic.

They were used to build up using sound values, words, and meanings.

And he recognised that the language encoded in that script was a Semitic language, like Arabic and Hebrew, which was the language of the Assyrians and Babylonians.

But he also then recognised, about three years later, that some of these signs were being used in a rather peculiar way which suggested that there was an underlying other language there.

This is the language which we now recognize as Sumerian.

At the time of course this was completely unknown and it had a very different grammatical structure to Semitic.

It was something new.

And this is so interesting Paul because for a Joe Broggs when looking at let's say Kunair form I guess it's perhaps easy to think that Kunair form is just one sort of language, shall we say, which stays the same.

But from what you're saying, for the scholars, looking at Cunair form tablets, when you delve into the detail, you can see different cuneiform languages within the Cunair form tablets that survive.

So Cuneform is an incredibly flexible system, actually, because of course

the signs represent essentially sound values.

So it can be used to write any language.

It can be used to write English, essentially.

But with using that system, you can use also signs to represent entire words or signs to represent a sense of meaning.

Although the earliest languages recognized within this system were these Semitic languages, they were actually relatively late in terms of recording.

And hidden within these late

recorded languages were these elements which pointed to this earlier recorded language.

And just to clarify quickly, what do we mean by a Semitic language?

Semitic is the way in which a language is formed grammatically, so the way in which it functions in terms of the structure of the verbs, the way in which it organizes itself, essentially.

And I say Semitic languages include modern-day Arabic and modern-day Hebrew.

So they have basically the same grammatical structure.

And that's what we find with these earlier Semitic languages like Assyrian and Babylonian.

Now, the language that was being teased out from these ancient texts, which we now call Sumerian, had a very different structure.

And so, grammatically, it's unique.

It doesn't belong to the Semitic family of languages, and in fact, may have belonged to a much wider family of languages, which is no longer spoken.

And so, it's often now described as an isolate, rather like modern-day Basque, it has no connection with other spoken languages.

So how does this language get the name Sumerian?

Did the people who were writing this thousands of years ago, do they not consider themselves Sumerians?

The scholars who were discovering this language, of course, didn't know what to call it because there was no word essentially in the text that helped them do that.

And another scholar in the late 1860s came up with a suggestion which he offered to the scholarly community which he based actually on a Semitic text and this was a phrase which read king of Sumer and Akkad

but this is Semitic this is Babylonian but because Sumerian was so poorly known it was agreed among the scholars that they would use this term Sumer and Sumerian as the way forward and so it's sort of stuck So we're actually left with a Semitic term to refer to this other language.

It's quite interesting, isn't it?

A Semitic term to refer to a non-Semitic language.

But, Paul, that is really interesting.

And I want to keep on the writing a bit longer because I want to delve more into this.

I mean, so, what sorts of writings have survived in the Kunair form tablets that are in Sumerian?

So, the earliest tablets in Sumerian that are readable are very bureaucratic.

They are lists of things.

They're created by administrators designed to manage big agricultural estates.

So it's about moving resources between storerooms or distributing things to workers.

But among those very early

texts, so around 2800 BC are also contracts.

So a record of the transfer of property or other goods between individuals.

And those are very often carved on stone because they're intended to last as a legal document.

Whereas all the other documents, the administrative texts, are on clay, which were not intended to last.

They're rather ephemeral, post-it notes almost, which was just for business.

So are we quite lucky to have those clay tablets that do survive?

I mean, are these ones which would have been excavated at particular sites and were under the ground and have been uncovered by archaeologists, let's say?

We're very lucky in digging sites within ancient Iraq because the clay tablets survive.

Even the sun-dried tablets survive extraordinarily well.

In other cultures,

say for an example in Egypt, where they're using perishable materials, you have to rely on other factors to preserve the papyrus or the parchment.

But clay survives remarkably well, and so we've got these very, very early records surviving in their thousands.

And clay, of course, is cheap.

It's everywhere in southern Iraq.

That's the world that it's based on.

You're building your houses from it.

You're making your pottery from it.

And you're using it to write on.

So it's an incredibly flexible material.

And because it's cheap and flexible, and you have a system which is sufficiently complex to record a spoken language and all the ideas that come out of that, that, it lasts for thousands of years.

Do we have any idea if there were any other languages that were being spoken alongside Sumerian during this Sumerian period?

Almost certainly.

And we get hints of that in the texts themselves.

So within texts that are written in Sumerian, there are grammatical elements which suggests that there are Semitic languages in the background, as it were.

And it may well be that the scribes of Mesopotamia in this period were taught to write Sumerian, even if their spoken language in the street was Semitic or another language.

And so it was the tool of administration and that you had to learn Sumerian essentially just to function as an administrator.

So as we wrap up writing there,

from the latest archaeological evidence that we have, can we still say that we believe that the Sumerians, these people, are the first people that we know of to develop writing?

I think we can be relatively confident that the person who developed writing spoke Sumerian.

That, however, is an assumption because the earliest texts, we can't read the language behind the signs.

They are simply recording information, which could essentially be written by anybody speaking any language but after several centuries of using those techniques of recording we find the Sumerian language as the first one to be expressed grammatically so that most scholars I think agree that the likelihood is that the majority of the population in southern Iraq in the late fourth millennium, early third millennium are speaking Sumerian and it was one of them who came up with this this idea.

You mentioned southern Iraq.

So what does this area of Mesopotamia, what does it look like at the time of the Sumerians?

Certainly in the late fourth millennium, through much of the third millennium BC, it's an incredibly watery place.

The waters of the Persian Gulf were much further north than they are today.

And so cities that are very familiar in the Sumerian world, like Ur and Eridu and Uruk, would have been almost maritime worlds looking out to the Persian Gulf on one side but then looking inland to an incredibly rich agricultural world of lagoons and waterways and marshland and it's in that marshy environment of which pockets survive in modern era that this Sumerian culture emerged so where transport was easy along all the river streams and of course the alluvial soil that the rivers had been depositing over millennia was incredibly rich for agricultural produce.

It's interesting when you mentioned the Sumerian culture emerging.

So I'm guessing this is really shrouded in the mystery, the origins of the Sumerians, but I'm guessing it's more do we think that they are the population of that area and then they become the Sumerian civilization or that they came from elsewhere and settled there?

Well, it's a difficult question because of course we talk about the Sumerians but only from the point of view, really, when we can understand their language.

So, before we're in prehistory, and then we don't know about population groups or the languages indeed that they're speaking.

But there's sufficient archaeological continuity from deep prehistory, actually, to suggest that large parts of the population are simply there and not changing.

So, it's possible that they're already speaking, as it were, Sumerian in those places.

And we have good evidence now for the sort of watery worlds where areas of land which were above the flood waters became the focus for these early settlements and the style of architecture for example continues then through into the historic period so we don't need to necessarily look for people coming from outside however early scholars from the mid-19th century assumed from the beginning that they could could talk about people as groups of mobile groups that moved as one

and they came, according to their theories, from outside, bringing Sumerian civilization with them.

When you're driving, nothing's better than a suspenseful podcast.

But when you want to save on gas, drama's the last thing you want.

That's why Marathon makes it easy to save with Marathon Rewards, earning you at least five cents a gallon in rewards with every fuel up and saving you up to a buck a gallon.

Plus, signing up is easy.

Do it at the pump or marathonrewards.com.

So start saving with rewards from Marathon.

Don't miss the Thomas Redd Veteran Boots Tour this summer, fueled by Marathon.

Now participate in locations.

Terms of conditions apply.

Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected, and each one more expensive and more more complicated than the last.

It can be pretty stressful.

Now imagine Odoo.

Odo has all the programs you'll ever need and are all connected on one platform.

Doesn't Odoo sound amazing?

Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price.

Sign up today at odo.com.

That's odoo.com.

Lowe's knows you've got a job to do, and we help get it done.

With the My Lowe's Pro Rewards Program, eligible members save more with volume discounts on qualifying orders through a quote of $2,000 or more.

Join for free today.

Lowe's, we help you save.

Offer can't be combined with any other discount contract and or special pricing.

Exclusions, more terms and restrictions apply.

Details at lowe's.com slash terms.

Subject to change.

In a world where swords were sharp and hygiene was actually probably better than you think it is.

Two fearless historians, me, Matt Lewis, and me, Dr.

Eleanor Yanaga, dive headfirst into the mud, blood, and very strange customs of the Middle Ages.

So for plagues, crusades, and Viking raids, and plenty of other things that don't rhyme, subscribe to Gone Medieval from History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts.

Over, as you said, it's only been 150 years or so since the Sumerians have been discovered.

But over that time, there's been a lot of development of ideas, of theories, and I think that's probably a great example of one of those, isn't it?

It is, and the Sumerians were caught up very much with 19th and early 20th century ideas around race,

which came with the understanding that people belonged to certain groups by their physical characteristics, by the way in which they thought, the way in which they worked together.

the way in which they spoke their languages.

So you had these groups of people emerging in different parts of the world and then were placed on a sliding scale of how they compared to essentially Western civilization.

So you could move along that sliding scale, both in the contemporary world, but also in the past.

And the Sumerians, because they were envisaged as having this language different than the Semitic people of the Middle East, were thought to come from outside the region, bringing with them this extraordinary developments of cities and writing.

So you had a model that was being imposed essentially on the evidence, one that, of course, we now completely reject.

Absolutely.

But let's move on back onto the Sumerians, because you did mention something else that I know a lot of us will be keen.

I'd love to ask about now, and that is, of course, cities.

And so we know from this area of southern Iraq, we know of many, shall we say, many cities or city-states linked to the Sumerians.

Well, cities is a difficult term, anyway, because how do you define a city?

So that's open to debate.

And it was assumed from the early excavations in the late 19th, early 20th century that southern Iraq, this great alluvial floodplain of the region, was the place where the world's first cities emerged, tied very much to this idea of the Sumerian population.

And of course, there are enormous settlements there.

Around 3000 BC, the city of Uruk is about one square mile.

which makes it probably the largest settlement on the planet at that date with with tens of thousands of people.

We now know, however, since those excavations began in the early 20th century, that the idea of urban centers is actually much older.

And we can look to sites further up the river Euphrates in modern day Syria to places like Tel Brak.

way north of the alluvial plains of Iraq, where about 4000 BC, so a thousand years earlier, we have a large urban center with monumental architecture and some of the technologies that would eventually lead to administrative ideas like writing.

So we can now trace back some of those ideas much, much earlier beyond the world usually associated with the Sumerians.

From research such as that at other places like Telbrack, is it giving people like yourself more an idea of how cities, well, I'll put cities in Denmark, in the Sumerian area, settlements interacted with other settlements, perhaps further away, perhaps trade or resources that were available?

And of course, just relations in general?

Are we learning a bit more about that too?

Oh, incredible new evidence coming to light and very often the result of new areas being explored by archaeology simply because they haven't looked, they haven't found it.

And you're finding examples of not just urban complexity, large people, large large numbers of people coming together, but also dispersed settlements, which are effectively doing the same things as cities.

These smaller communities are all working together and cities are effective just clumping together types of living

in a more sort of compact arrangement, which you can find in other patterns elsewhere.

different ways of people sharing ideas, sharing materials, but over long, long distances.

It's absolutely enough.

I love that we're learning more about that too.

And I guess one thing I'd also like to ask about, and I kind of hinted at it with the city-states idea, do we think there's one Sumerian overlord in southern Iraq during this period?

Or is it divided between the various settlements with like a powerful local figure ruling over that particular area?

It's very difficult to determine what's happening.

in the early third millennium.

So from around 3000 to 2,600, that sort of period.

the evidence just isn't sufficient.

And of course, they're not actually telling us very much in their writing.

It's largely bureaucratic.

But by around 2500 BC, the texts begin to be used to document the achievements of kings.

And you then start to be able to identify, not just in the texts, but...

in the architecture of palaces and larger buildings, the emergence of powerful centers.

And you get a clearer picture of a divided world of city-states, rather like classical Greece or Renaissance Italy, competing centers, sharing a common culture.

Uh versus a rook could be like Thebes versus Athens or something like that, if you want a parallel.

Correct, yes, absolutely.

Well, I would like therefore, you've mentioned the art and architecture, I'd love to focus in.

Let's look at a case study of one of these cities that has been excavated and look at the art and architecture from it.

And I've got top of my list, I've got a rook, but first I want to get to Ur because this is a very, very interesting one, isn't it?

Talk to me about the excavations at Ur.

Is it during the 20th?

Was it the 19th century, which seems to be really significant in the uncovering of archaeology at this centre?

Ur had always been the focus for exploration and visitors in the 19th century, Europeans passing through the region as merchants or diplomats, were always intrigued by the ancient mound at this site, which is known as the mound of Pich Tel el-Mukya in Arabic.

And it was from that site that some of the first bricks inscribed in cuneiform were recovered and brought back to Europe.

So it was always well known.

And early explorations in the 19th century began to uncover some other monuments from the site.

But it really only began to be excavated in an extensive way with hundreds of workers digging enormous holes in the soil when a joint excavation was undertaken between the British Museum and the University Museum of Pennsylvania.

And that joint excavation was led by Leonard Woolley, who was an experienced archaeologist and was chosen by the two museums to lead the digs

from 1922.

What did he uncover?

Did he start in one of the main areas?

Because I know he goes to the cemeteries, which we're kind of hinting at as well.

But what leads him, therefore, to talk us through his excavations?

What do we know about him uncovering so much incredible archaeology from this area of the world?

Well, the site is enormous, and there's very much that's visible on the ground, as it were, the remains of decayed mud-brick structures.

And dominating the site is an enormous mound, which is the decayed remains of so-called ziggurat.

The stepped tower, which was a feature of all Mesopotamian cities, part of the religious religious complex built from thousands of bricks, which piled up to create effectively a steppe pyramid, and almost certainly with a little shrine at the summit and led up by staircase.

Most of that had disappeared, but nonetheless, you had this mound of decayed bricks.

So that was the focus for Woolley.

surrounding temples around at the foot of the Ziggurat mound and palace complex.

So he was really digging the sacred heart of the city where royalty and religion came together.

Was the ziggurat?

Was that in use in Sumerian times or slightly later?

And as you say, was this, because you can see the reconstructed version today, can't you?

But was this the focal point of the ancient Sumerian city of Ur?

Yes, and temples were built on raised platforms from the fourth millennium BC.

So much earlier and almost certainly at Ur as well as at other sites, your house of your God,

relatively small building, was raised up above the level of everybody else's houses on a brick platform.

And those gradually got higher through time.

And by the end of the third millennium BC,

so around 2100 BC, the idea of creating these massive stepped towers really became a feature of the kings that were dominating the region.

And so lots of cities had them built.

And the one at Ur was at that time the capital city and was almost certainly the grandest and most obvious marker in the landscape.

This is an absolutely stunning building.

I mean, were they, if we don't know absolutely, just say, but were these excavators, were they able to get into the ziggurat itself?

Was it like an inside chamber?

Or, I mean, what did they really find from it?

So the ziggurat is solid.

It's solid.

Yes it's very it's unlike an Egyptian pyramid for example it's not designed to

hold anything it's a solid mountain of brick and the idea was very much to raise up a monument and one has to remember that southern Iraq is immensely flat.

It's a landscape which is an alluvial plain and so traveling from a distance you'd be able to see this effective mountain in the distance over the city walls and And it may well be that the ziggurat is an attempt to bring the mountains where the gods were believed to live,

out there to the east in the mountains of Iran, down onto the plain and bring their home into the center of the city.

I'm delighted to be able to talk about that monumental ziggurat because it is an incredible structure.

But I would also like to go to something else.

We go back to Woolley's excavations, which seems to be really remarkable.

Talk me through how they discover these royal tombs, these cemeteries.

Woolley has workmen all over the site digging various parts and some of his workmen begin very early on in 1925, 26, to uncover burials within this religious complex.

It's actually just to the edge of the ziggurat area.

But he realizes that his workmen aren't sufficiently skilled in digging graves.

These are very complex things to dig because, although they're pits in the ground, the soil, decayed soil, has fallen in, and there's very little surviving of the bodies.

The soil is very acidic, so there's very little skeletal remains.

So they come with challenges.

But little beads of lapis, lazuli, and carnelian and gold were revealed.

And he paused the excavations in that area until he felt his workforce was sufficiently skilled.

So by 1927, 28, he returned to that area of the site and began to uncover thousands of graves.

Now these were generally ordinary pits in the ground, as it were, just simple pits in which an individual has laid out, either in a coffin or wrapped up in a reed mat, with a few of their possessions.

But within the cemetery of thousands of individuals, there were 16 graves he uncovered, which were completely different in scale, enormous in scale, and contained extraordinary material.

And so tell me a bit more about these 16 particular graves.

What sorts of materials were uncovered and what did they believe that they were associated with?

So these are enormous pits in the ground, and sometimes sort of 10 meters deep.

And at the bottom of the pit, which was generally accessed by a shaft from above, would be a stone tomb.

The stone tomb

of various different shapes and sizes.

Some contained little rooms, some were just simply almost like little huts, single one-room creations.

And inside those stone buildings,

what Woolley took to be the primary burial, the king or the queen in his interpretation was buried there,

surrounded by the most extraordinary material, metal, copper, but also silver and gold.

And remember, there is no metal in Iraq.

This all has to be imported.

So this again expresses wealth just by virtue of bringing the stuff to Ur, let alone the material itself.

beads of lapis lazli and carnelian again all imported from vast distances reflecting the wealth of these individuals spectacular stuff in themselves, but on the floor of some of these pits, outside the stone tomb, lay the bodies of individuals who appear to be sacrificial victims.

And this was

a unique phenomenon.

Indeed, it remains the same for Mesopotamia.

One of these pits, the so-called Great Death Pit, had 69 individuals lying in neat rows, covered in extraordinary extraordinary jewelry, mirroring that found on the principal burial in the stone chamber, but reproduced in vast amounts.

So 69 bodies were found in there.

And these from analysis, and again, remember the skeletons were preserved very, very poorly, but they appear to be all women.

There are six apparent soldiers, again, based on what they're wearing, at the foot of the shaft leading down into the pit.

And so they're presumably guarding the entrance in some way, but the bodies, the rest of the bodies are all female.

And so they appear to be in some sense the servants of the queen, perhaps, courtiers, perhaps in life, killed for the purpose in death.

Well, that's absolutely remarkable.

Do we have any idea from the archaeology that survived?

of how they died?

Is it evidence of trauma?

I mean, as you said, there's probably poor condition that they survived, but do we have any ideas?

We do.

Now, again, thanks to modern techniques.

Woolley himself came up with a sort of rather romantic tradition.

Again, he's imagining the Sumeris as terribly civilized and therefore, you know, wouldn't indulge in anything too barbaric.

So he imagines that everybody willingly takes poison and lays down to die, to journey into the next world with their king or queen.

And indeed, little cups were found next to some of the bodies.

But we now know from analysis of the few skulls that were recovered, at least those individuals that were analysed died horribly.

Their skulls were smashed in with axes, essentially.

Their bodies were then embalmed by being heated

and they were treated with mercury.

Now this may have been an attempt to preserve the body, having

these individuals having been killed, preserve the body for the length of time it would take to then lay them out and decorate them with this extraordinary jewelry before the entire tomb was closed.

When you're driving, nothing's better than binging on a podcast.

Well, except maybe binging on rewards for marathon.

That's because you can earn at least five cents a gallon in rewards every time you fuel up, saving up to a buck a gallon.

Plus, signing up is easy.

Do it straight from the pump or at marathonrewards.com so start binging on savings with rewards from marathon today and don't miss the thomas red better in boots tour this summer fueled by marathon i participate in locations terms and conditions apply

my dog max loves chewing on my favorite pair of shoes almost as much as he loves his blue buffalo life protection formula dry dog food seriously he never leaves a crumb and i love it too because it's made with high quality protein antioxidant packed fruits, and nutrient-rich veggies.

Blue Buffalo foods are made with the superior ingredients your dog needs to thrive.

Can your dog food say that?

Visit feedbluefood.com to learn more.

Let's keep moving on, but keeping actually talking about women in these tombs, because there is this one particular tomb, and I've got my notes here, the Queen's Tomb.

Now, what is this?

It does seem to be one of the most extraordinary of all of them.

Extraordinary, really, because it was one of the few that survived intact.

Most of these graves have either been looted in the past, probably soon after they were buried, potentially.

And so, Woolley was able to reconstruct what he thought the whole rituals behind the interment were from just a few few surviving tombs.

And this queen's tomb was one of the best surviving examples, where the floor of the pit again contained sacrificial victims, these individuals.

And then the queen herself was buried in a stone tomb in one corner of the pit.

Do we have any idea who this particular woman was?

There's huge debates around who these individuals were in terms of, as were their profession.

Were they queens or were they high priestesses?

Probably

it would be difficult to separate those out.

These are clearly important individuals in the city of Ur.

We do, however, know this individual's name, and that's because

associated with her body, actually lying close to her body, was a cylinder seal, a cylinder made of lapis lazuli carved with an image of a banquet and a cuneiform inscription, inscription, which was read when it was excavated in 1928.

The signs, the cuneiform signs, were read as Shu'ad.

So Queen Shuvad was suddenly revealed to the public as a Sumerian queen, because it was assumed that the signs should be read as Sumerian, because it was assumed she must be a Sumerian queen in this great city.

And it's an interesting time that you mentioned that being announced to the press, because of course this is, well, it's a few years later, but still, let's say, hot on the heels of Tucson Khar-Moon, maybe even the Tripuran treasure

in Scotland.

But there's the discovery of all these incredible new archaeological finds.

And it feels like, you know, the announcing to the press of this, it's that interesting time of archaeological discovery, isn't it?

And you then have this Sumerian discovery being announced, this woman, this particular woman also being announced to the press too.

Yes, and of course, at this time, it was imagined from the chronology that was being reconstructed as the excavations continued, these tombs dated much earlier than the first earliest tombs in Egypt.

And it was tied in very much with this idea of the Sumerians as being at the roots of civilization.

So they must be much earlier.

But also tied in with the notion that the Sumerians were somehow connected to

people in the West, that they weren't Semitic.

They potentially could be actually the ancestors, as Leonard Woolley himself would say in print, perhaps even of the Neolithic barrow builders of Wessex.

So there was a sense of ownership from the West over the Sumerians, and here was this queen decked out in the most extraordinary jewellery with this apparent Sumerian name, which made that connection all the more explicit.

You mentioned their apparent Sumerian name.

There's more of a story to this, isn't there?

There is because the reading of those signs on that cylinder seal is now much better understood.

I mean, in the decades since the excavations, our understanding of these ancient languages and the way that the cuneiform script worked has, of course, improved dramatically.

And so Queen Shubad, her name is now understood to be read, in fact, as Pu'Abi.

Very different readings of those two signs, but actually with much more meaning.

Shubad is meaningless, but Puabi

actually is a Semitic way of writing a name which means it relates her to her father, essentially.

And so we now know her as Queen Puabi.

But the point is, of course, that if language and names associates you with group identity, then Pu'abi is no longer Sumerian, but actually is Semitic.

Well, there you go.

See, that's an interesting twist in the whole story.

Let's talk about art for a bit, because you've mentioned all these incredible objects that show like the connections that these people have, the Sumerians.

I know that you've got examples of these incredible statues of vases from a rook and so many other places.

I'd like to focus on one particular example, which also comes from Ur, from these particular cemeteries.

It is quite an iconic example, and this is the standard of Ur.

Now, Paul, what is this?

I wish I could tell you.

This remains something of a mystery.

It's an object which came to the British Museum as part of the so-called division of finds when the material excavated at Ur

was shared between the museum in Baghdad, the Iraq Museum, and the University Museum in Pennsylvania and the British Museum.

a division of finds which was practiced at the times but is no longer the current way of doing things.

But the British Museum got the standard of law as part of that.

And what it is, was reconstructed really by Woolley's ideas that this is some sort of box.

You have two rectilinear panels of some size, which are inlaid with scenes of a procession of material and animals being led up towards a king in the top register.

And on the other panel, you have a scene of banqueting, again the movement of material towards that.

Two images of kingship, one in which the king is shown as the warrior and one in which he's shown in sort of a peaceful banqueting scene.

Well these two panels, the inlay originally on wood which had decayed, Woolley thought must have belonged to some sort of object which had been carried on the top of a pole as a standard.

Why did he think that?

Well, the inlay was found next to the shoulder of the body in the tomb.

And so we have this idea of a box, a sort of truncated arrangement, with no obvious purpose.

Some people have thought, well, maybe it's the sounding box of a musical instrument and we've just lost the elements above.

Not many people, I think, accept that as meaningful.

And I wonder myself whether what you're looking at is actually a series of panels which would have decorated a wall.

And this we know from other examples, where

squares, rectangles of wood, inlaid with precious materials and carved scenes, were set up in palaces and temples, really as images of kingship or of religion.

And these may have been stacked up against a wall, perhaps in this tomb.

the idea being that the tomb would be the palace for eternity for the individual.

But when the tomb collapsed, the bricks from the top of the tomb fell down, smashing a lot of this inlay work.

And so Woolley found two panels, one on top of each other, separated by a thin layer of dust, which he then assumed had been a box that had been crushed.

In fact, I suspect they may well have been just separate panels.

But you visit it now in the British Museum as a single object, as this mysterious box.

But it is still an extraordinary piece of art, isn't it?

Thousands of years old and the detail that it shows is you say that peaceful scene and that more military scene too.

Yes and

comprised again of this extraordinary blue lapis lazuli stone which would have reached southern Iraq from Afghanistan,

the only source we know of, many thousands of miles to the east.

Such a precious material that the Sumerians really valued it as

evoking notions of the gods and that mysterious world to the east.

Absolutely.

Now, quickly, before we just quickly move on to, I'll ask a small question about the military king list, and then we'll wrap up.

But as hinted at earlier, we've got so many other examples of art from the Sumerian period, don't we?

I mean, what sorts of examples, in what shapes and forms do we have other examples of art from the ancient Sumer?

So we're talking about at least a thousand years, of course, when the Sumerian language is being recorded in cuneiform

and so

the material ranges from the sorts of things found in temples votifigurines is

one particular class of art which is very familiar to this world images of both men and women made of stone

30 centimeters or so high in general, carved to represent those individuals with their hands clasped before them in prayer perhaps so intended to be taken into the temple um to be in the presence of the god for all time sumerian temples were were small spaces these are these are homes of the gods so only the priests um could probably gain access so if you were wealthy enough if you had sufficient status or a position in society, you could have an image made of yourself,

men or women, and carried into the presence of the God.

They are absolutely extraordinary.

And, you know, people can learn more about it looking at the Sumerians, for instance, at your book and so on and so forth.

But we will keep going on because I'd like to talk about one other thing before we talk about wrapping up.

And that is quickly, very quickly on the military.

Do we have any idea from the, I believe I'm seeing something about this, but do we have a slight idea of how the Sumerian military functioned?

We have representations of armies on some of these royal images.

The standard of war, of course, is one good example where on this battle side, you have images of

carts, essentially, which are often described as chariots, but they're four-wheeled vehicles being pulled by donkeys, trundling across this flat landscape.

and inside you have a spear thrower and sometimes an archer.

So you have

effectively heavy, heavy weapons of war alongside infantry where rows of soldiers decked out in leather garments, we assume from the images, again carrying spears.

Those appear also on monuments of stone.

where again we see kings in chariots leading forward his infantry with their spears ready to attack the enemy.

And so what do we think ultimately happens to the Sumerians?

Well, remember, the Sumerians, as far as we know them, are only through their language.

So, we don't have to envisage a single group of people.

There's no texts that talk about, I am a Sumerian.

There are only texts that record their language.

And it becomes clear that by the end of the third millennium, that language is dying out as a spoken language.

And this is a phenomenon that happens with languages around the globe over time.

And indeed with globalization languages are disappearing today at a fast rate as other languages like English for example become more dominant.

So

for reasons that are difficult to determine Sumerian gradually declines as a spoken language in the street.

The language, however, is preserved by those bureaucrats, by the scribes and by the intellectuals who associate the language with the ancient past and the heritage of the region.

So it continues to be learnt in scholarly communities and in the temple as scribal communities.

But in the street, most people are now speaking a Semitic language,

become the Babylonian language essentially, and Sumerian ceases to be present.

So we don't see people disappearing, we just see the language disappearing.

Interesting, as you say, looking at the Sumerians, you know, through the language, and then you do see it being removed as time goes on.

I mean, with all of that knowledge that we therefore now have from the archaeology and the surviving cuneiform literature about the Sumerian language, how should we now look at the Sumerians today?

I mean, how should we view the Sumerians?

I think we can certainly talk about a civilization of Sumer.

Sumer was a term, and we started the conversation around how that term was so influential.

Sumer was a place.

It was thought of as a real place by the ancient scribes.

So we have the civilization of Sumer, but within Sumer, there was almost certainly a multilingual population.

The scribal tradition, perhaps the wealthy parts of the community may have spoken Sumerian, as they wanted that language as the first to be recorded in the script they developed.

But gradually over time, other parts of the population came to the fore in terms of their language.

But that melding of different linguistic traditions created a single unified cultural tradition that we now describe as the the Sumerian world.

Well, this has been amazing.

We've only just scratched the surface.

There's so much more we could have talked about.

We've got to got to end it there, I'm afraid.

Maybe we'll get you back on for a second podcast in due course.

But it does also, it's really exciting for the future, I'm guessing, in the archaeology field of ancient Sumer and learning more about it.

I'm guessing there's still so much more to find in the years ahead.

Almost certainly.

I mean, Iraq is extraordinarily rich archaeologically and there are abandoned settlement mounds out there waiting to be uncovered.

I also think it allows us to rethink our assumptions and presumptions based on our own more recent scholarship and revisit that.

Quite right indeed.

And last but not least, your book, you have written a book on this topic, which is called?

It's called The Sumerians.

It's part of the so-called Lost Civilizations series and explores many of the things we've been discussing today.

Well Paul, absolute pleasure.

Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast today.

My great pleasure.

Thank you very much.

Well there you go.

There was Dr.

Paul Collins talking through the story, giving you an overview of the ancient Sumerians.

I hope you enjoyed the episode.

That was the first ever interview I did with the wonderful Paul Collins when he was still working at the Ashmonian Museum in Oxford.

He is now at the British Museum in London and has since done several more interviews with us on everything from Uruk and the first cities to Sargon of Akkad to Nineveh and more to come.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Ancients.

Please follow the show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

It really helps us, and you'll be doing us a big favor.

If you'd also be kind enough to leave us a rating as well, well, we'd really appreciate that.

Don't forget, you can also listen to us and all of History Hit's podcasts at free and watch hundreds of TV documentaries when you subscribe at historyhit.com/slash subscribe.

When a cold has you down, it's the little comforts that lift you up: a warm blanket, a cup of tea, and a tissue that actually feels good on your skin.

Infused with aloe, Kleenex Cooling Plus Aloe provides a hint of cooling freshness to help your skin feel restored.

So, whether your skin is feeling dry, chafed, or irritated, you're only one wipe away from helping it feel relieved.

The next time you have a cold, get a hint of instant cooling relief with new Kleenex Cooling Plus Aloe.

For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.