Best Console (Not Including the Games) (Patreon Bonus)

Uh, hey, everyone, we have a very special gift for y'all.

Uh, you're about to hear an episode we had a lot of fun recording.

It was a bracket battles episode, one of many that we've recorded on the Patreon that's behind the paywall, but everyone gets it for free.

And this is the one that the Patreon members picked.

Do you guys remember recording this episode?

It was pretty fun, it's like a fever dream.

Yeah, it's an unhinged episode where we picked the best console

games.

Damned,

what the fuck fuck is me?

Magical Texas Giraffe that I am all.

This is like an intro.

I am a Patreon subscriber, and I didn't know that on top of being a lawyer who has been graciously funding this

series that you will be releasing, one of my behind-the-scenes episodes.

And yet, I do declare one of the best episodes.

I'll grant you this time to share it with the public on my behalf.

So, if you want more Texas Magic Giraffe, patreon.com/slash the besties.

He's huge over there.

Huge over there.

They have their whole alternate fiction.

I'll show myself out.

You showed yourself in.

It seems only fair.

This is the episode where you pick the best console, but don't talk about video games at all.

It's really

enjoy

Dreamcast the best.

Dreamcast the best, you say.

Wait, let me try.

Let me try again because I need to say it more authoritative.

Because I'm trying to say it was a lot of fun.

It sounded like you were taking a bong rip when you said that.

I was trying to get my like, that was my voice I was going for.

Guys, Dreamcast the best.

I was trying to see if I could skip the episode.

If I could just be like, Dreamcast the best.

And then it wouldn't even be an episode.

I mean, Plant is on board for Dreamcast the best.

I was ready for it, but you just walk away.

We owe the people what they want.

You know, we have to at least put on the shade.

I forgot probably a little more than just Dreamcast.

I forgot about our wild rubric, though.

I don't know if it's going to come out on top, but I thought it would be worth flowing Dreamcast the best and then just see how it played.

Griffin, do you think Dreamcast the best?

Um, I don't know about the best.

It makes me sad that we don't live in a world where Sega was allowed to keep fucking up in huge and expensive and spectacular ways.

Because Dreamcast's not the best, but Dreamcast does have the VMU.

Dreamcast does have Phantasy Star Online and Shin Mu.

No, fuck it.

Dreamcast to best.

What am I saying?

Justin is.

You can't bring games into it, but Dreamcast to Best.

Oh, yeah, I forgot where

it was.

Okay,

I didn't expect

Russ to pick up Dreamcast to Best so fast, but the way it caught on so quick really tickled me.

I feel like I just sent out a fax to everybody in town, and all of a sudden this thing caught on.

My name is Justin McElroy and I know the best console of all time.

My name is Griffin McElroy.

I know the best console of all time.

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant, and I know the best console of all time if you take away the games, which would seem to be self-defeating, but it's what we're here to do today.

Don't you undo the progress we're about to make make before we even make it?

My name is Russ Rush, and I'm the best game of the week.

This is the besties, it's a video game club, and just by listening, you are a member, but you know the spiel because you're here for our exclusive behind the velvet rope extra sexy after dark, super naughty.

I agree to that.

We even made like new exclusive uh box art.

McKay made like uh album art specific to this theme before you can before the bonies, the bonus besties battle, baby.

The bonies.

Welcome to the bonies.

Welcome to the bonies.

It's the bonus besties battle, baby.

The b4.

B4 bonies.

Hey, listen, we're going to be picking the best video game console, but we can't talk about the games.

Well, we can like

the games aren't part of the rubric.

Right.

You mentioned the title of a game.

I'm going to lose my fucking mind.

You cannot.

A console cannot win in a matchup because it had a game that was better the other consoles.

So let's dive into the rubric then.

How does a console win without its games?

Very valid question.

So ordinarily, if you've been a regular listener of these bracket battles episodes, you know that we've had a pretty simple rubric.

It's usually two points and then a tiebreaker point in case the two points are tied.

I thought in this case, actually, I really tried to boil the rubric down, but in this case was unable to.

And now we have six points

and a tiebreaker.

the first fucking question is which box looks cooler

yeah I mean

that is important that has to be the backbone of the conversation every time I don't know what else to talk about

priorities okay so I think it's pretty straightforward um so here's the rubric I'll read through it quickly because we have a lot to cover um rubric one which box looks cooler pretty straightforward two which has more innovative uh which was more innovative in terms of features so this is like oh this was the first that had a Rumble Pack.

This was the first that had like online support.

Shit like that.

Okay.

Three, which has the more comfortable controller?

Pretty straightforward.

Four, which has the cooler looking controller?

Which controller do you want to have sex with more?

Bro,

I'm not actually doing that.

Just real.

It's like subtext.

So five is which has the better system UI?

And that's obviously assuming if it exists, some of these don't even have a system UI.

and then six which is more portable if you had to bring it to a friend's house I will say up ahead GameCube's fucking winning that one every time because it has a fucking handle all it's got that's enough that's a lock the intro stinger and the handle is the only thing the gamecube now here's my question about this in your head russ do you feel like this is an up and down six point thing or do you think this more holistic rubric these are conversation starters is just more conversational or do you think it's like you think if it's tough to decide, we should do an up and down.

Okay.

This is the rubric we're using generally.

I like that.

I think that's going to be more fruitful.

And we have not shared the tiebreaker, which is which name is cooler.

Yeah.

So what we're saying is we're going to use this to

come to a consensus.

And if we can't come to a consensus, then we'll have to rely rigidly on the rubric.

And if the rubric still ties out.

The name.

Well, it won't because it has a tiebreaker.

That's what I mean.

That's when we'll go to the name yes.

Okay, I'll be just saying, if it's a tie, we'll use the tiebreaker.

I think we'll do that.

I like this.

So, issue two before we get started: there's too many fucking consoles, way too many.

True, and to get it down to 16, which is what we normally do, and to keep this focused, we're going to have to cut all but two PlayStations and two Xboxes.

Yes, I like that.

So, wait, if anyone has any initial thoughts, and just as a reminder, we're talking about PlayStation 1 through PlayStation 5 and Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S, and Xbox 30.

I refuse.

I fucking refuse.

To consider the Series X versus the Series S as two different boxes.

For the purposes of our conversation, it is outrageous to think that we would have to do it.

They have very different boxes.

Let me put it this way.

I don't think we need to worry about that.

We're certainly not going to do the Xbox One.

I think we could

decide.

Now we are just throwing the pool cues in into the pit.

There is no rules here.

we're just gonna take two of them with them you you ain't decide who makes it out we don't okay

god's lightness make it here playstation 2 is gonna be there right we that seems i think yeah i think playstation 2 i think any of the four of us could make a pretty good case for the playstation 2 being there in terms of ahead of its timesness in terms of like introducing a user interface

yeah yeah yeah and i i agree i think i think it's the playstation 2 and the playstation 5 because i think the playstation 5 has the like controller aspects and it's certainly the one that everyone is.

I see.

I would say 4 over 5.

I would say 4 over 5.

Okay.

As evidenced by the fact that I played my 4 a lot and I've played my five to play Sony exclusive PlayStation 5 games pretty much exclusive.

And then never again.

Okay.

I think

it's back compat.

I have a

slight issue here with the system UI rubric, right?

Are we, I mean, is that fair in these contexts?

Because that's very much iterative, right?

So, like, you could argue that five and four have the best UI of the PlayStations because they've been building on,

you know what I mean?

Like, I don't know that it makes sense to limit.

Yeah, is there ever, like, is a UI from 10 years ago ever going to be better?

I mean, I feel like that's always

going to be

the blades on the Xbox 360.

If you like the Xbox One interface more than the Xbox 360 interface, you are a

nut.

That's true.

Yeah, Yeah, fair.

Well, I think the Xbox answers this question very well.

I think the Xbox Normal, the original, and the Xbox 360 are the two to go forward.

Because

I would agree with that.

Yeah, right?

The Xbox is a significant console.

It's a weird fucking console that did a ton of shit.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

A very cool name, too.

I would agree.

So,

and 360 was obviously like the peak of where Xbox ever was.

Okay.

I agree with that.

It's been a downslide since 360.

We all know it.

They had raised the deer.

Okay, so that leaves us with, we're bringing forward the PlayStation 2 and the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox and the Xbox 360, correct?

Okay.

Argument on the PlayStation?

It's not an argument on the PlayStation.

I think it's, it's, it's,

the proximity to the Dreamcast limits a lot of what why PlayStation seemed so sort of like groundbreaking at the time.

Like

the leap from

cartridge to CD like media, I don't know that there's a more significant jump in terms of consoles.

I would do PlayStation 1 and PS2 for that reason.

I agree.

I think there's a more interesting conversation to be had about the original PlayStation than PlayStation 4.

I think a lot of the points I would make about PlayStation 4 are upgraded versions of the points I'd make about 2.

It's like, it's not just DVD, y'all.

It's Blu-ray this time.

What about, hey, can I throw this out there and this may be kind of anecdotal?

What about reliability?

Oh, well, then we

like that.

I like that.

There goes the 360.

360 is gone.

Yeah.

I mean,

if we're talking about what box is best, one of the boxes you had to wrap a towel around and bring back to life.

Do we want to kill the UI thing in favor of reliability?

No, I think the UI thing is

maybe we fold it into something.

Can we just make three, can we combine better, like cooler looking and more comfortable controller into one thing?

I like talking.

Can I also just remind you, before we get too lost in

the rubric, the whole change here is that it is conversation starters.

That in theory, we won't even have to get down into the nitty-gritty of like, check myself.

And I would say

if you want to talk about the UI stuff, you can talk about it in the context of features.

Yeah.

So we have a rubric for features.

So I think that's a good place to talk about UI, and we'll add reliability here as well.

And you can follow along at home if you want.

I'm loving it.

So, are we saying the rubric is probably in the newsletter?

So, are we saying PlayStation 1 and 2, and then the Xbox One and 360?

Completely.

If we're talking about reliability, I got to revisit 1 now because I had a lot of pals that had to play Tony Hot Pro Skater with that bad boy flipped upside down because it no longer functions properly.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Let's, I would say, I will, I think PlayStation 2 and 4.

That's where my, that's where my heart is leading me

i mean reliability is only one point on the rubric for what it's worth yeah so innovate i mean

what do you think about the look of the playstation one

uh i think it looks fucking awesome right like in terms of a console design i want to eat it it's up there with the dream i think i would say real talk i think it looks better than any other playstation console ever made i don't disagree i think they've all been kind of blobby black shapes we got to get into the main thing yeah we do you're right okay i think it's it's PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2.

Okay.

That's where I've landed.

I think those are both very representative of the biggest leaps that have happened.

And everything else after that, while there have been highlights, has been iterative.

Okay.

I agree.

I would push towards PlayStation 2 and 3 because I think the online jump in 3 is such a massive change.

But there was online in 2.

You could play online.

You could.

You could.

So come.

But it's like very much a not built to do that.

Like, that is not the problem.

Certainly not built with the spider-man font in mind so that is something in favor i will say the original playstation 3 controller was so bad

and yeah also terrible

a lot of stuff the playstation

we do have to make these choices one and two one and two one and two one and two and then the xbox 360.

okay is this

is this a problem if you think about what has just happened with our system as design we old men picked the two oldest boxes in each category is that i don't think so are we okay we We did, but like.

I know we...

No, no, no.

I know we did, but I specifically don't think it's old man thinking.

I think video game consoles have gotten increasingly boring and devolved into just being PCs.

So there's not a lot to talk about because a lot, and that's like, in some ways, for the better because they were figuring out what the hell a console even was.

The Switch is here.

The Switch is doing new shit.

But like...

The difference between a PS4 and a PS5 is like, congratulations, you have to turn off the thing that makes it hurt your fingers when you pull on the the triggers.

Yeah,

it is quite limited.

Also, like, I think that that would be a problem if we were including games, the game catalogs for these things, which is the major differentiator between modern like console cycles.

I made a bracket, so you don't need to worry, Fresh.

Just scroll through.

Oh, great.

I got us all taken care of.

We are ready to go.

And may I kick off?

this fantastic episode with

what I just don't think anybody gives a shit about, Sega Master System for everyone who played not the Genesis, but the thing before the Genesis versus the Turbo Graphic 16.

The clear winner.

Oh, fuck, I can't say because it had bonk.

I immediately ran into the main problem.

I can't say bonk.

No,

Turbo Graphic 16 to me is

if you knew a rich kid,

their parents might have taken a flyer on the turbo.

We stayed at a fancy hotel once that had a Turbo graphic 16 in it and i felt like i was one of the rockefellers i felt like we had finally raised been raised above our station and now could live like this is what the this is what the wealthy kids play this is they're playing with this power at the turbo graphics and they also

managed to pull off not exactly what the switch is doing but pretty fucking close where they managed to shrink the turbo graphic 16 down to the point where you could play your full console games in a handheld format.

True.

Which is, they were quick to do that.

We're not discussing handhelds in this.

We should make this clear also.

We are not.

Yeah.

Which is like, I feel like that.

I could get way fucking rowdier on that one as I

may someday we will.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, hey, right off the top here, we're talking about the box, right?

And talk about an actual challenging face-off.

The TurboGrafx 16 box is actually what would happen if you took gamer culture of the 1990s and you just stilled it into like orange cardboard hell.

It is really bad.

It looks like dumped a Josta on a VCR.

Yeah,

but the Sega Master System box is one of my favorite boxes of all time.

It's so fucking cool.

The black and red.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, and

I'm looking at, I'm talking about the graph paper one, the white box with the

Japanese.

I was talking about the box box.

Yes, okay.

Got you.

I thought you meant the box.

Oh, well, and I think both.

I think also the hardware looks like you're going to, you know, like launch nuclear weapons in like the beginning of the Cold War.

There is these.

Look at this Sega Master System power base.

Like, look, it's like

sleek and black.

It's got this red panel with killer design.

It looks like, I mean, it looks like a fucking Cylon turbo truck or cyber

cyber truck?

I forget what they're called.

Are they called turbo trucks or shipping?

Cylon.

Just look in your garage and tell us.

uh i actually prefer the sega mark iiii master system which is like a white uh it looks like a i mean it looks like a yamaha sort of uh some synthesizer of some sort computer tv game on the front which is how you know you're gonna have to have fun yeah um

these both look

the same segue all the master systems looks better like all the oh yeah um yeah i agree what else do we have uh which is more innovative in terms of features are you?

Are we going to sit here and pretend like Turbo Graphics had no?

But I think if we are not using the rubric, at least to like structure these conversations, especially when we're this helps, especially because I don't think any of us are like that in-depth familiar with these consoles in particular.

These are some of the oldest consoles that we've got on this list.

Yeah, sure.

TurboGrafic 16 is a 16-bit

graphics card, and the Master System was eight.

So

16 is bigger than eight.

Yeah.

It's unfair, I think.

Also, the TurboGrafx had cards, like credit cards, as the games, and that's pretty fucking good.

That's pretty

cool.

And that's a cool feature.

Yeah.

How about controllers here?

Oh, boy.

Right.

Two things that, you know, you're going to experience serious hand strain minutes after playing either of these consoles.

I think that the TurboGrafx 16 comes out ahead.

Both of them have that kind of NES, very simple controller look.

turbo graphic 16 has a little bit more ergonomic shape it's not literally just a pure box um has a little curve to it on the back but i guess it depends on the controller because there is a rounded version of the master system controller i guess it's the mark 3 yeah that looks a little more ergonomic um i prefer the master system the like this is a controller this looks like a controller that was issued to you by some sort of government agency this is controller

And it's very minimalist and I think it looks way better than any of the turbo graphics ones, which is like this world's smallest buttons on the world's biggest rectangular piece of plastic.

The turbo graphics one looks like if like power A was in control of like releasing the first-party controllers and you just sort of like farted it out.

Hey, I use a Power A controller exclusively to play Nintendo Switch.

And I'm not going to sit here and let you besmirch Power A.

I think this looks like what's the shittier peripheral example that we could use?

There was one in days of yore that was like no one wanted that.

Mad Cats.

Mad Cats did make some shit.

But they also made the Guitar Hero controllers, so you can't stay too mad at them.

Fair.

I think we can just decide a winner on this one.

I don't think we need to go too deep here.

Yeah, because

this one ain't beaten the next round, whatever it may be.

Also already one of the most surreal episodes of an audio show where we just talk about buttons on a whole video game.

You know, it'll be easier once we got to the video.

You're so right.

You're so right.

But let's pick one here.

I'm going to say Sega Master System wins because the box is absolutely sick.

The hardware itself looks beautiful.

And you can plug one of those little laser zapra guns into it, even in the early days.

I mean,

congratulations.

Love it.

Well done.

Congratulations, Sega Master System, for moving on.

Now things are going to get interesting.

Okay, now we're in it.

A little spicy even.

Okay.

We've got Sega Saturn versus the Nintendo GameCube.

Dang, man.

Griffin, do you want to sing the intro song for the Nintendo GameCube?

Sure.

That was actually pretty good.

It wasn't really good.

I didn't know I had that inside of me.

It scared me a little bit.

Okay, so these are both consoles that are...

I would would say, you know what's nice about these?

These are sort of, I feel like these both have a little bit of the black sheep stink, huh?

A little bit.

I think they, well,

a lot of it probably Wii U is probably a little bit more of a problem child for me to know, but yeah,

these both have a little bit of the

sophomore slump, even though it's neither of their sophomore projects.

Yeah.

I would say this Sega Saturn was like, when it came out,

a little bit

ahead of the game, right in terms of like horsepower that's no i mean sega saturn was way ahead like it had a lot of uh

sega does what nintendo like power under the hood uh it was just it could do like 3d stuff better it was just the the sort of uh commercial strategies behind the the sega saturn and the

catalog which we're not discussing uh failed it uh tremendously okay we're also not talking about price but if i recall correctly i think the sega saturn was like comically expensive.

Is that no?

It was right.

The Sega Saturn was very expensive.

That's how Sony just undercut it with price alone.

It was rushed out the door.

It is, if we're talking about like feature set or just like how it works,

for all intents and purposes, a disaster to design for.

And that is why it has been a nightmare for emulation in the past, because it was having to do things like pull power from the sound card.

It is not great.

And I say this as somebody who absolutely loved the Sega Saturn when it came out.

I played a Sega Saturn once at a blockbuster video.

I played Nights into Dreams on a Sega Saturn demo unit that they had there.

And then I swear to God, you guys, I never touched one again.

We did not own one.

I don't know much about the Sega Saturn except that they announced it and released it on the same day and put it under everybody's chairs or some shit at the press conference where they announced it to give a bunch of freebies away.

The look is a gimme.

The look goes to GameCube.

Yeah.

GameCube's a lovely thing to look at.

That's easy.

Colors.

So many color options.

Nintendo does it the best.

Most fucking orange one, wasn't there?

Yeah.

Orange one's pretty cool.

Most what?

What's next?

Most innovative.

I mean,

GameCube, I think pretty easily.

So the reason I would say that is Sega had a challenge here with building to the Saturn and that they just kept putting shit out.

So they're like, here's the Genesis, here's the Sega CD, so we have CDs out, here's the 32X, so we have the power boost and 3D graphics.

And then they kind of like rushed from that to the Saturn.

So there was no like,

it's kind of actually what I feel like has happened with the Xbox Series X from like the last console generation, where there's so many little spots in between and such like a lack of a power curve that it's hard to justify what the console is.

And you can kind of see it with the controller because the the controller is like spot on exactly like the Genesis 6.

And then they had to release a new controller for Nights into Dreams, which

is recognizing that.

And they're kind of building the airplane mid-flight.

Most really the only stuff that you could, a lot of the point stuff that you could point to that was like innovative about the Saturn compared to the Genesis, like

it is.

almost immediately seceded by and superseded by this Nintendo 64, which doesn't have the disk drive leaps forward that the Saturn has, and the Saturn still gets its lunch eaten.

So, I don't even think you can make a real like innovative features thing when this console that should have been completely outclassed by the Saturn, like almost immediately ate its lunch.

Yeah, blasted it.

Yeah.

I think we're going to talk a lot about the GameCube, but I think in this matchup specifically, it smokes the

Sega Saturn controller is an abomination.

It is.

And he touched it once.

And I touched it one time, and I still remember how bad it felt in the hands.

It's like holding a Chibata loaf.

Congratulations to Nintendo's GameCube for your very fortunate pairing.

Yeah, because your controller ain't great either, partner.

Speaking of fortunate pairing.

I love that controller, by the way.

We'll talk about it.

The Nintendo Wii versus the Nintendo Wii U.

Hold on.

Okay.

Now, 2KO.

Hold on.

Now, hold on.

No, no, please.

You mentioned like, let me clear my throat.

You've mentioned one console, and then you mentioned some other words that didn't sound like anything.

So you mentioned the Wii, Nintendo Wii,

and then what did you say after that?

Nintendo Wii U.

Yeah, that doesn't.

It's mine just goes to sound.

Here's what I guess.

Let's have like a Clarence Darrow.

One, just do the Atticus Fitch.

One, one, the Hail Mary.

I'll go see if we can sell ourselves in the Wii U.

I'll go to the fucking map for the Wii U.

If you guys need a champion for that, I will be your huckleberry.

There's a case.

Hey,

without it, we don't have the Switch.

It is.

You know what else we don't have.

It's the clear path to the Switch because what they did is they made what the Switch should have been.

It can't matter, right?

Like, it can't.

It can't matter in like, that's how innovation works, right?

I'm

innovating.

It only matters.

It's not going to win.

Let me give it a decent funeral.

I'm just trying to put out a cheese plate and you're like knocking me over.

Could you draw even a loose profile of the Wii U console from memory?

Yeah, it's called a rounded rectangle.

Done.

Done.

So

then you want me to draw the controller?

Okay, I just drew

the screen on the back of your airplane seat, and then I put two little knobs next to it.

Congratulations.

Can I say?

Credit to Nintendo.

If I could just say briefly.

Credit.

Credit to Nintendo.

When they walked in to start planning for the Switch, they walk into the room where the Wii U is sitting and they look at both of the components of the Wii U.

And somebody in that office picks up the console part and they're like, this is the problem.

This is what people hate.

We got to get rid of this.

They love this thing.

This is working.

It's the console we have to get rid of.

And everybody's like, yep, let's do it.

You're right.

This is the console's the problem.

Well, I mean, even if you look at the box, like the box is the Wii U controller, and then the console peeking out from behind it.

Like,

I'm still here.

I'm still doing it.

There was a chapter in the history of modern gaming where second screen experiences was something that people were trying to make happen.

And that moment

has passed, I would say, largely speaking.

Xbox got in on it with a lot of shit.

Yeah, Microsoft Cloud.

I mean, you could also connect your phone to drop ordinances in battle, what are the battlefield games for like Xbox?

Also, the fucking DS was like huge.

Well, that's not second speed.

That's that is not the type of thing I'm talking about.

I'm talking about like one play, you know, people looking at a TV, but then you also have a little pad that you can do shit on.

And the Wii U, not to talk about specific games, had a lot of fucking rad applications of that.

I think that

it was a weird little bubble, but it was like a thing that I found very exciting.

I really liked games that could create these neat, asymmetrical experiences in like a multiplayer setting.

And the Wii U did that.

And it was the most that I think a major company went all in on this like idea that

ultimately like the idea itself kind of collapsed in on itself, which I think is a shame because I think that we are all using a phone while we're watching TV or playing a game or whatever anyways.

I think it's wild that this thing was such a bubble there.

Netflix is, I think, the heir to this idea.

Oh, absolutely.

Netflix's gaming is like very interested in exactly what you're talking about.

I like to imagine that Griffin is standing behind a pulpit next to an open grave and there's all these empty folding chairs in front of him.

And we're like standing there with our shovels and our watches.

Like,

we have another one to do in 20 minutes.

We really got to wrap this up.

You are burdened, overburdened by consideration of catalog.

I invite you to remove that consideration entirely and then give me an objective list.

Do you realize that this conversation has only been able to continue because we are not mentioning the Wii like it's behind our back like this?

Like, well, we do.

Okay, hold on, wait a second.

Okay.

You mean the we, the thing that the Wii U could do all the same stuff as?

You also had the whole screen.

Yeah, the Wii U does what the Wii.

Don't.

No.

Okay.

Okay.

The

Let me first start by saying, this might have been unclear, but when I said which box looks cooler, I I meant the physical console box, not like the market.

That's too bad because I was wondering why that conversation kept rearing its head.

In both cases, the Wii still wins.

So I'm fine with that.

The Wii just looks cooler.

I actually think the box of the Wii U looks better than the box of the Wii for what it's worth.

Like the white monolith, just like...

I mean, they're both white monolith.

I mean, in a way, one is just like.

I think the Wii looks cooler.

I think the Wii hardware, just the box, just like a sleek

cyber track.

It doesn't get so smudgy.

Yeah, the Wii looked

at the screen is awful.

Okay, Wii, here's the thing.

Looks nice has the motion controls that, you know, like shook the world.

It got grandma moving her booty, you know, down at the exercise place.

You could use two candles for that shit and it still works.

It was incredible.

It also, features-wise,

brought the virtual console to our world which at the time was awesome you would you would look forward to like the wednesday drops of like new new old games and that was so exciting you had it's easy to take that for granted now but like that was huge you had all the me stuff where you can make your own characters yeah

that verges on talking about a game but not quite no

it's part of the ui yeah i i think

When we talked about doing this episode, like in my mind, I feel like Nintendo is such a front router in terms of like what is exciting to me about like gaming hardware and that it does they do weird shit they do really weird shit with their stuff and sometimes it's on a hardware level sometimes it's on like an os level but they they're the only ones doing really i guess xbox did xbox live avatars for a while uh which were

not great.

But I don't know.

I, the we really was, everything was channels when you turned it on.

It looked like a little, a little TV and everything was the Wii Shop channel or the Wii news channel or that shit.

Okay, okay, okay.

So the box, the Wii looks cooler.

Even if you want, I mean, the Wii has to be more innovative.

I mean, we said enough nice things about the Wii U.

We can just acknowledge that.

More comfortable.

Well, but

there are some interesting matchups here.

I'll go very quickly.

Neither.

Cooler looking controller.

I mean, you look like a fucking dork using the Wii U controller.

Like, let's be real.

Yeah, and you look fucking so cool using a Wii remote.

Yeah.

I was swinging the fucking master sword around.

If you look like a future tennis person, you did look cool.

Yeah, sure.

That's true.

Can't be aware of that.

On the reliability point.

Yeah.

Okay.

Fine.

We wince.

I just didn't.

Wait, wait, wait.

And portable, the Wii U does take portable because you could technically play the Wii U without

a screen.

Yeah, you could play it without.

Did you?

Yeah, people did.

People would like bring it onto their airplane and plug it into the power source.

You just need a power.

You just need all the power.

You put the console in their bag and then play on the tablet.

That's great.

I love that.

It is, unfortunately, the least cool name ever for any console ever.

So I agree.

Congratulations.

We wins this round.

Push it for you forever.

Push it on.

Never.

Next up, now we're freaking talking.

The

bloodbag

Super Nintendo Sega Genesis.

Yes, this is when the console wars were wars, man.

Okay, I'm getting up my reference materials here because I don't want to say anything wrong.

I still feel afraid

because I don't know how I feel yet.

And I really like this rubric.

I don't like how I feel.

I don't like it.

Can we?

I feel like we are all struggling to begin talking about.

I think let's lean on the rubric here.

I think let's go piece by piece for this matchup, the Titan of gaming console matchups.

The the first one is like which looks cooler and they both look so cool

and they're two different types of cool yeah

i think the super famicom

if we can consider that instead of the american s and es box i think is so fucking good it looks so rad it's got that blue red yellow green little thing

but is that part i mean i guess it has to be for yeah i think that that's part of it permutations um it is really good looking

I've always loved that Super Famicom color palette.

But the Genesis is like sleek, especially when they got it down to just like a square.

It just looked, it looks so cool.

And what about like when you stack on

three Treks, a Sega CDM?

Yeah.

Get his saddlebags going.

I think we got a Raw Dog straight Genesis to the dome and do not attach any peripherals to this game.

Now, I know, sorry, but the expandability of the Sega Genesis is a promise that came from

the Nintendo side of things that never

actually delivered on.

The Sega delivered on that expandability.

And wow, did they deliver

with a suite of

hit games?

Of what?

Of what?

Can't talk.

Something.

It looked like a Jenga Tower.

Give it that.

That's all you got.

It seems like the dumbest.

Let's call it Look a Tie.

I would give it to the SNES.

I would give it to Nintendo.

I think Nintendo wins this.

I think Gen.

I will say the Genesis looks like a lot of other consoles that we've looked at so far.

Just a cooler version,

a little bit more character.

Innovative features, I think it's Genesis.

I think so, too.

Yeah, definitely.

How so?

Because of all that wild fucking shit they had going on.

Glass processing.

SNES had anything.

SNES had the Super FX chip, but really that was in the cartridge, I think.

That wasn't hardware-bound.

I think it's interesting.

SNES just looked good and had a lot of stuff on it that was fun to interact with.

But it wasn't the most exciting in terms of, it was not the most feature-rich of gaming hardware.

It really did the one

pretty good.

With what you said about Nintendo, Griffin, like SNES is the contradiction, right?

SNES is, we did the NES, but we did it better and we did it simpler.

Like

they had more experimentation with the NES than they did with like the NES disk drive and all those things with Super Nintendo.

They kind of just knew what they wanted and they stuck to it.

Well, that was very much like their place in the market.

I feel like this is when

Nintendo is a kid's, is the kids one.

Like Nintendo is the kids' one.

Genesis is for cooler.

Like that's always the conversation, right?

To contextualize this for our younger listeners, like these were arguments that were had in my school a lot of Sega or Nintendo which one's cooler and the subtext of those conversations is always like well Nintendo's little kid shit and Sega is like is pretty pretty raw and pretty pretty cool I won't talk about the games but Sega had blood Sega had blood on it Sega yes yeah I mean yeah we don't have policy here but so the simplicity of SNES is I think by by design and it certainly worked for them when I say that the simplicity worked for them and maybe against against them, kind of what hoops, I think you were getting at with like not expanding on the console is why we have a PlayStation.

Like they had the opportunity to add CD functionality.

They didn't.

Sony was like, cool, we'll go do our own thing.

If we're talking about more, it says more innovative.

And I mean, you can't say that the SNES

writ large

innovated and evolved more than the Genesis.

No, I would agree with that.

I think I

Yeah.

We have removed the SNES.

We have Solomon style cut the hair of the SNES by not talking about its truly remarkable solid gold library of games.

Yeah, well, what can you do?

I don't like the Genesis controller.

I never have

643 buttons.

I never liked holding it.

I know that the ergonomics of the SNES are not good, but like just the sounds, man.

can picture.

Like, I think that would be, I would, that would go SNES for that one.

I think the SNES controller is pretty ergonomic.

This is a controller that you're going to...

You understand more about how you should grip things, right?

Like, the idea that it doesn't, I mean, compared to like modern controllers, like, there is a bit more heft to the Genesis.

And if you were talking about, like, which is better in the hands to hold long-term, it may be the Genesis because the profile is a little bit closer to like what the human.

Yeah, exactly.

And in terms of reliability, so many Super Nintendo controllers ate shit while I was using them as a kid.

So many.

Oh, really?

Yeah, so many frayed.

So many buttons got stuck.

Like, I constantly had trouble with that.

It's fucking ridiculous.

We're still talking about this.

Look at these two controllers side by side and then look at every other controller that ever came out after them and tell me which one got copied by every like it's fucking crazy that you guys are like yeah the one with 60 million fucking buttons on it that nobody knew how to use is the like that's crazy it's the s and us with a bullet Yeah, okay.

Um,

cooler-looking controller, still SNES, I think.

Definitely, yeah,

I mean, aesthetically, it's certainly an aesthetic choice, but yeah, I think unless you are into like how they design like motherboard boxes, reliability, I would go SNES just because if we're giving it the benefit of the doubt for its innovation, then I think the reliability of those has to be taken into account.

And that whole setup, once you start it, like once you plugged everything in, it was really one of those, like, okay, hold it on, everybody.

I'm turning it around.

We'll see what happens.

Here comes Sewer Shark.

Something's going to come out.

Yeah, it's spinning up.

You can hear that baby purring.

So the fact that the SNES was not really trying any of that stuff, except for maybe the multi-tap.

Yeah, I think in terms of reliability,

I think that's probably true.

I don't think we need to get into more portable.

They're basically the same.

And I would say

Super Nintendo 1.

I think you look at it.

Yeah, Super Nintendo takes this.

Genesis, you're dead forever.

All right.

Hey, good try.

Miss you, childhood.

This is another easy one.

This is dirty.

Y'all have done us dirty with this one.

They're all going to feel bad.

This better be an easy one.

If there's conflict here, I'm going to fucking be pissed.

Nintendo 64, Sega Dreamcast.

Dreamcast the best.

Dreamcast of best.

We did discuss it earlier that Dreamcast is the best, but I think we need to get

confirmed.

It is hard for me, guys, to lobotomize myself and not think about the N64 games I enjoy.

If you look at the hardware of these two consoles, Dreamcast the best by spiritual games.

Dreamcast had the virtual memory unit, which may be the most exciting

bit of gaming hardware that was dreaming.

Like a hot stone.

Can you actually, can we pause?

I want you to have your entire VMU moment.

Dreamcast is going to get so much talk because it is the best later on.

I would pay the VMU for this.

I would hate for you to burn your best material and something as filthy and shameful as the Nintendo 64 hardware.

Which, like, congrats.

Yeah, they added Rumble Pack.

They also added, remember the little power boost that you had to put in its gut?

Yeah, it needed more memory.

Oh,

that fucking console.

That's so weird.

That always weirded me out because it's like when you bought the Nintendo 64 and you got it home, you're like, hell yeah, time to play video games.

And then you look down and you're like, it seems like there's a little flap here.

What's under that?

Yeah.

And then it is like, don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it for a little while.

But then when Star Fox 64,

I forget which one was.

No, it was Majora's Mask, right?

I thought it was Donkey Kong.

It was one of them.

I forget.

I think it was Donkey Kong.

Had the expansion pack?

Yeah.

That required it.

Required it.

Perfect Dark did.

So it was like, why did you guys have a picture of it?

That was a packet as well.

Yeah.

Because you guys were always kind of planning on this, as evidenced by the fact that you did have a little hole here from the beginning.

Why not put the thing in there from the beginning?

Yeah, that expansion pack is not so much an upgrade.

It's an upgrade in the sense that like when people get...

metal discs in their spine, it's an upgrade.

It's like, yeah, well, that's a medical assistant device that you have there.

You need that.

They also put it in such a prevalent spot that was like, you could not, it was like someone got a tattoo on their forehead.

They knew they had to be.

There's no missing that.

Everybody was going to need to do it.

The controller is also like when you go to Chicago and somebody in a bar is like, you got to have some malorit.

You haven't been to Chicago if you haven't drinking the malorit.

And you're like, yeah, I mean, sure, I'm glad I did that.

That was fun.

We had a good time.

It was not a good experience.

Does the N64 win any of the categories of the reverse?

It's lucky we're not able to talk about what the games look like.

It's probably pretty excited about that, honestly.

Okay, it doesn't win boxes cool.

It doesn't win innovative.

It doesn't win comfortable controller, certainly.

Guys, this really is Dreamcast's episode 20.

All of this shit is so good.

All that stuff.

But that's not fair to N64 because it should get its day in court.

The controller is one of the worst things I've ever seen.

And I've seen multiple car crashes.

Reliability.

And they break

awful.

It's awful.

Some of the worst control works.

Yeah, they break all the time, which is more portable.

Like, I don't think you'd want to bring it over to someone else could see that you had it, right?

It's like so embarrassing.

No, okay.

This is one.

Okay.

This is one where I definitely have moved the Nintendo 64 to more places.

than I have moved any of these other consoles because

of reasons that we can't discuss.

But I think that's a good point.

In terms of reliability to a lot of dorm rooms and dens.

And, you know, I haul that thing.

I don't think it wins on reliability no matter what because again, those controllers died.

But portability.

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't think the fact that you had a reason to make it portable is a point in its favor for this.

But cartridges versus the discs.

Oh, oh.

It's a lot easier to chuck in a bag.

You don't have a fucking CD binder?

I will say that the tree tasks.

Can Can it have one?

It's like a pyric victory at best, man.

Yeah.

No, I think that this one is fair because I think the Dreamcast

disc read error was a real

epidemic.

So it's not fair to just only.

I definitely have that issue as well.

Listen,

Nintendo 64 had its time.

We are debating whether it gets three consecutive life sentences or four.

I don't really care.

I mostly just want to get out in time for lunch.

Yeah,

Dreamcast the best.

Dreamcast is the best.

Oh boy.

Okay.

This is great grandfather versus little baby boy.

NES versus Nintendo Switch.

Yeah, I mean, the Nintendo Switch is fucking incredible.

It's so good, and it does a lot of stuff no other console has ever done before.

I feel like someone has handed me a marker and asked me to circle the wrinkles on my nani.

I don't like this feeling, but we the feeling that we have to stand in front of the NES and just start sadly pulling out bricks until it tumbles like a jingle tower.

Yeah, I mean,

if you talk about, I mean, in any category, guys, one of these consoles came out 50 fucking years after the other one.

It's going to win in all of them, it's going to beat the shit out of them.

I would say that the Nintendo Entertainment System looks better

than the

Nintendo Switch.

Nintendo Switch has very little character and it's really

just a slimmed down Wii U at the end of the day.

And if you throw in the dock,

the dock is horrible.

Yeah, the dock.

Visually speaking.

The dock's not great.

Okay, so yeah, it got one win.

The Switch Light, though, I think looks great, especially when you mod it, you know.

But I guess if you could also have mod.

But you know what's not on this list is the Switch Light.

And also, does the Switch look different than like half the emulator handhelds that come across your desk?

Yeah, I don't think it just looks that so NES looks cool.

Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

Yeah, I think NES is cooler.

I mean, fuck.

Innovative is where things get a little tricky because we're talking about like

popularizing home

interactive.

We should have mentioned this up front, but and I'll just speak for myself.

I don't want to speak for you guys, but I have what could at best be described as a very limited understanding of computation, broadly speaking.

So

some people might be like, but what about the

chip you know or you know like the other chip that everybody knows about like i you know i'm sure there's last processor yeah there's architecture things that this is important in addition to the architecture it's worth considering that the nes did have a its own robot and its own gun

switch the gun was good it was a really good gun and a really shitty robot it also had a glove and a hoop and a and a mat that you ran on now wait a minute there's a lot of things that the nes could i mean that you're listening to a lot of different stuff.

You're right.

Yeah.

All of it sucked absolute dog shit except for the zapper.

But yeah, otherwise you have a really good point.

Innovative in terms of features.

I mean, the Switch you can play on the go or at home on it.

Like that alone, I feel like we are pretending like that is not sort of the dream scenario for us having kids and traveling as much as we do.

It's the dream scenario of video games our entire lives.

It was the forever fantasy.

What if

my Game Boy played the games that I actually like?

Right.

And it does it, and it does it pretty good.

I mean, obviously, it's aging, but it does it pretty good.

It's just hard because we were all like more or less babies when the NES came out.

So the frame of reference.

What the world was like before and after.

We just don't have that.

I don't think that's really fair, though, because

consoles had existed before the NES.

An entire boom of consoles had happened before the NES.

Just because we're baseballs doesn't mean we don't know what history is.

As a baby, I don't know.

I think right now we might be discounting a little bit, just because we can't talk about the specific quality of the games.

What

the leap forward in terms of what this looked like.

Yeah, you can talk about graphically speaking.

Yeah, graphically speaking, at that time, like if you, especially if you had grown up with, with a lot of different games

and seeing how all that evolved, like seeing an NES was the wildest jump forward in our heads at that time, we had all seen several console generations because the Atari had had like three or four different like big releases, right?

2600.

And then, and, and we thought, like, wow, this is each one of these is a step forward.

The NES was such a massive jump in terms of like backgrounds and character fidelity and like all that stuff.

It's such old man shit, but it is true.

When you played the original Super Mario Bros.

and the game scrolled and you weren't locked in the screen, it was mind-blowing.

Yeah, I mean, we're playing.

We played

actually mind-blowing.

Go back.

If you have access to like some, some

ways of playing older games, whatever that may be, go play the stuff that came out the year the NES was released on Atari.

Look for Atari Atari games released in that year and then see like where things were at.

It is such a massive jump.

It's really hard to contextualize, especially because a lot of people thought games were dead.

Like that was it.

They run their course.

I think for the for the conversation we're having here

It's for me it is the Nintendo the Nintendo Switch

I feel like I I'd be lying i play it more than any other of all the other consoles here listed i play it more than any of the other ones so and it did like manifest a total sea change like i've gone back and and you're right there is an enhancement playing 7800 atari versus uh the nes

but like side by side screenshot wise it's not that different like it's pretty close we We have the Rubicon.

I think the Switch wins the Rubik.

There's one other great thing that we have here.

We always afford ourselves one pick that can go to the final five if we so choose, right?

Yeah, I don't know if it's going to be the NES, though.

I'm just saying it could be.

So do you think you think the Switch is a better name?

Because I'm assuming you're using the tiebreaker, right?

Have we even gotten to the tiebreaker?

I mean, you're talking about

Chris is saying it wins the rubric, so I just thought.

Yeah, so I would say

which box looks cooler.

NES.

Which was way more innovative in terms of features UI?

Switch.

I think it's Switch.

Which has the more comfortable controller?

Switch.

Switch.

Switch.

Which has the cooler-looking controller?

NES.

I think the NES.

NES.

Okay.

Yeah.

Reliability.

That's NES.

Talks to me about Joy-Con Drift.

Are you fucking talking?

Talks to me about Joy-Con Drift.

Talking off.

Joy-Con Drift.

How many times have you got to do it?

Guys, Joy-Con Drift, though.

I want to stay focused on Joy-Con Drift.

Joy-Con Drift versus every game failing eventually.

Between those two, Joy-Con Drift versus every game eventually fails and stops working.

And one is a portable concept.

To recap, we are at three to two.

Switch has three, NES has two.

Question six, which is more portable?

Right.

Yeah,

that's a slam dunk.

Out of curiosity, which do you guys think is the cooler name?

Nintendo.

It's the best.

It's right.

It's funny right on the Nintendo serial system in terms of great names and stuff.

Okay, rest in peace, Nintendo NES.

Next matchup, we have the original Xbox versus the Xbox 360.

Look, if we're talking, if this conversation is, I think, largely spearheaded by aesthetics,

I think that the Xbox doesn't look very good.

I think it's one of the ugliest things.

I'm trying to be nice.

I think it looks not great.

I don't think it's Microsoft's best looking piece of hardware.

I think the original original controller was a mistake Was a mistake

abomination Was it the Duke?

Was the Duke the big one Duke the Duke was the first one.

Yeah, it was so bad.

It was sucks so bad to hold that controller.

It was like

It was like the dreamcast controller without any of the cool features So if you got like that shape, but never it bums me out that so many people listening to this never held one of these things because you think it's people are blowing it out of proportion but the first time you held that thing, it really was.

Most people's reaction was like, oh, not.

I mean,

not this, right?

It can't be this size.

Certainly not this.

I remember Juice got an Xbox and was staying in an apartment.

I was living in an apartment at the time.

And I came to stay and you had a blitz, you had not Oblivion, Morrow Wind.

You had Morrow Wind on there.

And I was like, all right, cool.

We're not counting this.

This is not part of the conversation.

This is purely anecdotal.

But as soon as I picked up the controller, I was like, oh, uh-oh.

I was really looking forward to spending time with Mara Went, but this sucks so fucking bad to interact with.

But I also recognize its place in history.

And it's not like the Xbox 360, the box itself is like gorgeous or anything.

No,

it's nice.

It's nice.

But I do think if we are doing.

Has there been a better console design since the 360?

Oh, since?

Probably the Switch.

but like, that's a long time.

I guess it depends what you're hearing of.

You could switch the faceplate out of the 360.

Listen, I think 360 is going to beat the shit out of the Xbox in the middle.

There was at least with the 360, though, I got to give credit for it, is one of the only consoles that I could think of where I know there was a design philosophy because they talked about it.

Like,

they talked about the inhale and like there was thought put into it.

Like, a lot of 360 decisions, they're kind of off the wall.

But, like, I think it's a really fun design, and uh, yeah,

I will say for the original Xbox, a few things in its favor

played DVDs, CDs basically was

trying to be a computer.

It kind of set the pace for where video game consoles went, where they're like, We're gonna use parts that are inside computers, we're gonna use

it as well, though.

PlayStation was very much into like, we're going to make cell processing or like any of the things.

But it could play DVDs.

Sorry,

yeah, yes i i i'm just saying as an innovative point

what sorry when i say cds dvds and

all the pc parts that it is building where playstation was like a home entertainment system for lack of a better word a sony home entertainment system xbox i think was building towards even at this early stage this like your video game console is more like a pc and i think that's interesting and i think that is where video game consoles ended up going.

Ironically, I think there were times where Microsoft ran away from that own internal direction, but also it is kind of like the heir to the Dreamcast.

It is Xbox Live, it has the Ethernet port,

it has features that

I think in terms of our rubric specifically,

there is only one of the six starting rubrics that the original Xbox wins, and that is reliability, And that is only because the Xbox 360 failed at such great numbers.

Yeah.

It just wins by default.

That's fine.

I'm fine with us going 360 and talking about it more in the next round.

Oh, sorry.

If it made it to the tiebreaker, it would also win which name is cooler.

Yeah, I think Xbox 360 is like a cool stunt you can do.

They've been trying to recapture the magic of Xbox 360 as a name.

Oh, no, I like Xbox.

Really?

I think that's cooler than Xbox 360.

Xbox 360 is stupid, and it was a bad name and everybody made fun of it you're too young to remember maybe i don't know it sounds like we all it sounds like something you would do on a vert ramp and i like that i guess i i sort of stream

they're both pretty good uh it's only and i think they only named it that because they realized they'd be going up against the playstation 2 and they wanted a bigger name yes 100

well

they were trying to keep pace with the playstation 3 they wanted you to go to

yes it's a girl

in that term it is so funny the only thing that would have been funnier is calling it the Xbox 3.

There is no law against that.

They could still do it, actually.

If they dropped the three, can you imagine how excited everyone would be?

I mean, the next console was called the Xbox One, so they were fucking running off the rails.

I know, but at this point, they could make an argument that the next one is because they restarted this franchise in Xbox One.

Okay, we have our okay, so 360 takes that one.

Well done, and then we are our final matchup, which is PlayStation 1 versus PlayStation 2.

Spicy.

Okay.

PlayStation.

PlayStation 1 looks better, but PlayStation 2 looks really, I think, kind of cool.

The Slimline PS2 is one of my favorite pieces of gaming hardware.

That thing...

Everything was so big.

Everything disc-based was so fucking big.

And the Slimline PS2 was like...

What's the thickness?

I got to look this up.

I got to look at the thickness on this bad boy because because it was unreal.

Have you guys seen, though, the mini PS1?

Yes, I have.

You know, that cute little guy with the round.

I think that thing is fucking

gorgeous.

Yes.

The PlayStation 2 Slim had a height of 1.1 inches.

I mean, fucking

wild.

Yeah.

Really small.

Okay.

I mean,

let's talk about PlayStation 1 just coming into existence.

That Sony is, you know, co-developing an idea for something like this with Nintendo, doesn't work out, and they're like, we're just going to go do our own damn thing.

Sony, who is not even in the video game scene at this point,

and they and they just leap in with this right off the bat, and they leap in with the dual shock that, yeah, it doesn't have it doesn't have the joysticks, but it's effectively this.

It does eventually.

It does eventually.

And it's the same design that they have been using up until the PS5 when they kind of finally changed away from it um pretty bold

did they were they first or was um nintendo first on the analog stick i think it was nintendo right nintendo was first with i think the 360 analog or the um or the 64 yeah playstation was first with the dual uh analog stick yes and you can play ape escape with it which it's got to talk about

it's

wild how there was a period of such rapid evolution of like the fundamental ways that you interact with video games.

Like when the dual stick came out on the PlayStation 1, I remember being like, oh, so I can finally move and look around.

Yeah, I can move and look around at the same time.

That's, that kicks ass.

That's actually a good thing.

There's definitely a, I think that this period that we're talking about is the period where we're trying to

reimagine everything about interacting with video games because of the switch to three dimensions, right?

You're

makes perfect sense in two dimensions.

And what you're seeing, a lot of the flailing, I think, at this point is like, okay, how do we make it okay to interact with this world?

Like, what is the language that makes the most sense?

Because you have so many more things to consider.

I mean, infinitely more in a certain sense, because you've expanded like the planes in which you are operating.

Yeah, so Nintendo went ahead and made and took a bunch of peyote and then like kind of drew something on a squiggle board.

Yeah, PlayStation, meanwhile, didn't do them and then looked around like, oh no, this is not working.

This is not how you interact with 3D worlds.

We need something else.

So, mid-console, they put out the

and ended up doing it better than Nintendo by quite a bit.

Yeah.

So, um, uh, okay.

It's tough, man.

This is the hardest category for me to remove the history of it from because, I mean, the cartridge to disc

leap was outrageous.

Yeah, I think the PlayStation 1 is more innovative than the PlayStation 2.

The PlayStation 2, obviously, software-wise, which you're not talking about, incredible.

But like...

Interface-wise, I think

you cannot undersell the

interface of the PlayStation 2.

That's the first one I remember being like, oh, okay, so like I manage all of the, I manage everything through this, right?

Like I manage my memory card data through this.

I manage what did the PlayStation 1 have?

You should look at the PlayStation 2.

Before you lay too many more plaudits on the PS2 UI, you should look up a video of the PlayStation 1 AI because a lot of the stuff that you are talking about is

baked in.

Yeah, you can manage like memory cards and stuff because that's how, you know, you think about Metal Gear Solid 1.

Oh my God, this looks so rough, though, guys.

Well, the PlayStation 1 UI to PlayStation 1.

It's before the PlayStation 2, Griffin.

I think when I watch videos of the PlayStation 2 UI,

again, it's so bad.

It looks looks like an official PlayStation magazine fell down a well of stairs.

Demo disc, yeah.

Yeah.

But you also could watch DVDs on the PS2.

It was like a multimedia machine and it was pitched as such.

And the DVD thing is so huge because it was cheaper than most DVD players at the time.

That's true.

Which, one, made it like the default best DVD player you can get.

Plus, how many people did it bring into video games just because they bought it just to have a dvd player and they're like oh now i can play i don't i don't think i'll ever be as pumped as i was for a new console as i was when we got the playstation 2 at christmas because that was also our first dvd player at our house and like yeah the some of the biggest fights that we had were like the time on that thing was strictly managed because we were all wanting to use it all the time it was such you could watch the matrix now you could watch the matrix on it you could also connect to the internet if you had the Ethernet adapter.

You could also use the eye toy and the buzz controller.

Yeah, PlayStation 2 had a lot of good.

I think this is PlayStation 2, guys.

Yeah.

I mean, did we go?

I would give it.

Yeah, I would give it to PlayStation 2.

I still think the box is cooler or the PS1.

1.1 inches tall.

The PlayStation 1 does have a cooler box.

It's little double.

The PlayStation 1 has a cooler looking box.

Okay, so they're tied.

And then we go to most comfortable controller,

which is tied, I guess.

No, it's the two.

The two does

round the edge.

It's a little bit more ergonomic.

Oh, right.

The three was the one that was working.

And also, I believe PlayStation 1 took a while to get all four top buttons.

I think it was just two top buttons.

No, no.

They always had to do that.

Those are two.

It was the dual six.

They didn't have.

I'm pretty sure.

Yeah.

They always had L1 and R.

I think that's fine.

So, so, okay, so we're going to cooler-looking controller.

It's really down to do you like the gray or the black, right, at that point?

I mean, you could get some, there was a multitude of colors for each of it.

We're splitting hairs talking about the differences of the controllers between these two consoles.

Yeah, they're very close.

Do we have any insight on the reliability?

Oh, reliability.

Someone was talking about

games not running unless they were upside down, right?

I know that that was a thing.

I mean, definitely they were less reliable.

Like, PlayStation 1 definitely had a lot more discrete errors, et cetera, et cetera.

And PlayStation 1 died off much faster.

Like my old PlayStation 1,

it had a very clear shelf life for my PS2.

I still have dug it out and it still works.

And then on the portability front, are we counting the little one-inch baby?

It gets him as an offshoot, but yeah, I mean,

I definitely brought the PS2 with me to places.

Like, if I would go to a friend's house to play burnout, I would bring it with me because it was so fucking little and it was no problem at all.

it seems very close it seems like we might

so there's one problem with portability and it's that the playstation portable had a screen that you could attach to it

that that which wait the playstation the original playstation no the playstation portable so playstation one portable there was okay well the playstation portable is a psp which is oh no sorry i mean the um whatever the the the smaller version of it whatever that was called the uh the ps1 it was called the ps1 spelled out one that there was a like a hatch screen that you could put on top was this a first-party device i'm pretty sure it was right yeah 100 yeah plugged into the back of the ps1 and it flipped up and it was look at look at it it seems pretty fucking portable to me it's you don't even need to portable yeah it was real cool i think it probably takes the edge on portability with that yeah in mind

i'm fine with that

it's they are the same oh yeah let's talk about what's a cooler name PlayStation or PlayStation 2.

PlayStation 2, maybe.

Now, let me stop you right here.

Trice is good.

Although

I'm going to say, hold on.

You've got...

Let's look at the abbreviations for a second.

PS2

or

PSX.

Piss X?

I didn't say Piss X.

I said PSX.

Also, I think PissX is something we came up with recently as a way to truncate that.

I don't think I am not going to have this discussion with you guys.

It's pissing me off.

PlayStation is a name of a box.

Nintendo Entertainment System, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, the Wii, the Saturn Genesis Mega Drive.

That's something.

PlayStation 2 ruined it for everybody because they put a number on there.

And then it's like, and then everybody has to do the numbers thing.

You couldn't just have these cool conversations about Saturns and

Ultra 64

pseudos and all that.

Damn, this is actually a really good point that I've never considered.

I like that point.

I do too.

All right, let's do a PS1 then.

PlayStation's a very good pull.

It's a very good.

Oh, yeah.

Branding wise.

Crushed.

I think PlayStation 1 somehow takes this.

Congratulations to PlayStation 1.

You did it.

Okay.

Let's move forward.

We are moving on to round two,

and we've got some matchups coming at you.

We're going to start with a beefy one, Xbox 360 versus PlayStation 1.

I'm going to open this in a separate tab, in another tab so I don't have to keep scrolling all the way back over to the rubric to reference it.

All right.

360 versus PlayStation 1.

Yes.

Guys, the 360 did so much shit.

I feel like the 360 came out when I started to really play a lot of fucking games, a lot, and it had new ways of getting those games with like the xbox live arcade and playing those games online from the jump with all my buddies like

that's that's that's halcyon days level shit for me so that's that's tough to to argue i think the 360 does very well in the matchup because i think it definitely looks cooler i think we can all agree on that it's more innovative in terms of features

love the controller love the controller the controller is fantastic it looks great it's comfortable to hold.

Reliability, not so much.

Probably loses the original PlayStation on reliability and

probably loses on portability.

But at the first one, those two are also hand in hand because if you moved your Xbox 360 around in the wrong way,

it broke forever.

Right.

But I think it takes the first four, which means it's got the majority of the rubric there.

And I think it's a very strong pick as much as I love the PlayStation, as we just established.

I want to give Griffin his time to talk about the VMU again.

But here we are, once again, with a showdown where Dreamcast is the best.

There's not a conversation to be had here.

The Sega Master System versus the Dreamcast.

I think...

Get this fucking bullshit off my plate.

Get this off.

I think the defense of the VMU is yet to come.

We'll get to it.

I'm on the edge of my seat, but for the moment, Dreamcast the best.

Yeah.

Dreamcast is the best.

And we will get down to the point of where we're discussing the final five.

And I think at that point, the VMU treatise will be

fast.

I'm going to put it in the middle.

Okay, the GameCube versus the Nintendo Wii.

Fun fact, the Nintendo Wii is better in practically every way.

I had a good time humoring y'all as if the GameCube was ever a cool thing.

GameCube's trash.

I don't know how the worst console of all time made it to a list of the best ones.

It's impossible.

The thing stinks.

I hate the GameCube.

Those fiddly little discs.

Keep them.

This is a man's hand.

I need a man's disc.

I like that.

Okay.

Strong disagree on almost every front.

Wow.

Okay.

Which box looks cooler?

The fucking GameCube is maybe the best constant.

That's not even close.

Okay, okay.

And also, when you turn on the Wii, I mean, you did get pretty good music.

You didn't get the

that one wasn't as good.

I would say the GameCube is actually like the

last hurrah for fun Nintendo design.

Like it all became,

for good reason.

I think it became a lot more function-centric after that because so much of it was interacted with and like couldn't just be an aesthetic thing.

But yeah, okay.

Innovative.

I definitely agree that the Wii takes innovation.

Yes.

Easy.

Which has the more comfortable controller?

I will die on this hill.

It is definitely the GameCube.

Are you fucking with me?

You could not be more wrong.

Step away, bud.

Let's just step away.

Let's figure this out.

I love holding the GameCube controller.

It fits perfectly in my hands.

All the buttons are easily accessible.

They have crazy shapes, so you don't need to look down to remember what your thumb is resting on.

I love that controller.

It would win for me for both more comfortable and cool.

You know, when they're like nine out of ten dentists recommend you brush your teeth, you're the one dentist who's over here, like, just let the grime come up.

The GameCube controller is so wrong.

Russ, this is the most problematic thing I've ever heard you say, and I've known you for a long time.

Anybody could play the Nintendo Wii.

Anybody.

It was the most intriguing.

It has nothing to do with

it.

Just because people can play it, that is not the rubric.

It's whether it's comfortable to hold.

Okay, okay.

This is an interesting wrinkle that I'm willing to.

I don't, I don't know.

Yeah, because this one did one of these.

Hold on.

Yeah, I think I said.

While you're playing tennis, it's fine to hold.

Try playing fucking Exight Truck and see how you want to hold that control.

You could even make the argument, guys, that I was a game journalist in

7.

And like, this is one of the consoles that came with the Surgeon General's warning for don't huck this guy in the wrong way, or you're going to shatter your TV.

I don't know if most comfortable,

too comfortable to hold, that you start to fucking lose your

focus a little bit.

They gave you a strap to hold it better.

No, not only, not just a strap, a rubber autonoma.

I did love having a little Timmy cap for my

seed.

Because you got me with the wording, and I feel like you planted the seed months ago that you've all been building up to knowing that this moment would happen.

Because if the question was which is the better controller, we with a bullet.

But if the question is most comfortable controller, then like, yeah, you're right.

They put the, they put the thing in a damn condom because it was like so uncomfortable to hold a candy bar for a video game controller.

And on the cooler looking front, have you seen the movie Existence?

It looks like, I was just thinking about Existence.

The GameCube controller looks like the fucking Existence controller.

I'm I'm sorry, we're all having a lot of fun here, but the GameCube controller can't have like that.

That is one of the worst things you could look at.

You can't.

No.

Okay, well, let's see.

So if the game, we say that the GameCube controller takes one.

The Wii takes the features and UI.

Right.

GameCube controller takes more comfortable.

GameCube controller gets cooler.

On the

reliability front.

Probably the Wii is more reliable.

Is that fair to say?

Yeah,

Wii still works today.

Yeah, I think Wii is pretty.

You could use your candles.

Okay, that's fine.

I'm sorry.

We got to go back.

No, I'm sorry, Russ.

I can't, but I was trying to

fight one space, but like, I'm sorry.

The first thing is I came up with the comfortable controller thing, and then I'm thinking, what if I go to heaven?

And God's like, if you love it so much, hold it forever.

I'm like, no, I was kidding to torment Russ.

I didn't mean it.

It's a bad controller.

That is definitely not more comfortable than the we, than the Wii controller.

I'm sorry.

No.

I can't.

I will say when you're holding the Wii controller, if you're playing something for a long time, you have to do this a lot.

So it's like the controller itself may be good to hold, but you do have to flail in order to operate.

It's also just like the games that weren't motion games.

That controller fucking sucked.

It was like holding the NES controller.

Worse.

Even because it had that divot for where the trigger was.

Can we do a survivor vote to like see where we're at here?

Yeah, sure.

Okay.

I vote we.

We.

Okay.

I disagree.

You're hurting.

Okay, let me do it.

If that felt unfair to you, wait a second.

Let me do a rubric real quick.

Which looks like your rubric.

The

Gink Cube.

Gink Cube.

More innovative in terms of features.

We.

More comfortable controller.

We.

Cooler looking controller.

yeah

think about it i just talked about how much i hated it russ that's not a i was trying to see if you were listening no that's definitely not gamecube uh so that's we

reliability

uh okay

give it to me

okay oh

we've got one more motion tracking and like yeah having to fix the light bar

totally agree and then we've got another uh rubric to discuss which is more portable gamecube so it comes down to which name is cooler and there's no fucking way you're going to say GameCube is cooler than we.

We is iconic.

Hold on, actually.

This is tough, actually, for me, Chris.

Actually, Chris.

This is tough for me, actually, Chris.

I'm realizing with horror.

This was 20 minutes ago that I realized this is how it was going to play out, and I'm so glad you're going to be able to do it.

GameCube is a much better name than we.

GameCube kicks out.

That's such a fucking cool name for a thing.

The GameCube.

We'd retire.

We'll settle this in the GameCube.

It's so fucking

good.

Okay, so there you go.

GameCube wins.

Honestly, what's worse than GameCube winning is your little fucking plan coming into place.

He laid it out from the beginning.

He said, just so you know, he gave us all the clues.

He said, just so you know, that is winning most portable.

He gave it to us.

Yeah, that's true.

Okay, so the GameCube takes it.

We're down to the final matchup, which is Super NES versus Nintendo Switch.

I mean, I think the SNES kind of limped into its victory because its hardware is not very exciting and it sort of has a much stronger catalog of games.

But if it's a straight up and down in the rubric, if the rubric is a straight up and down, then we are saying that each of those is equally important.

So are we really saying we value which is the most portable against which is the most innovative in terms of the- Remember, the rubric is a talk.

It's just get us talking.

We do have the ability to talk about the power.

I don't like the GameCube.

I really don't feel good about the GameCube in this too late.

The rubric made.

I think the Wii is going to come up with the

top five.

All right.

Okay.

I would agree that the NES, based on the rubric, will struggle because we are not talking about games and everything else about the NES.

The Super NES.

The Super NES, I should say, is pretty.

I want to get to the top five then.

Let's do this.

Like, why waste our time?

Nintendo Switch wins.

and we

i think i think the the five that we're going to talk about here are the the the four winners the xbox 360 the sega dreamcast the nintendo gamecube and the nintendo switch and then i think the nintendo wii is the other entry that will be going into the top five i don't know about that yeah versus what

what are you thinking of

Because we should figure this out before we

versus the original NES?

Like, what would it be?

Yeah, maybe just the NES.

The NES was the only other one that I think had like a real competition shot at making it to the top.

Man, I don't think I think a PlayStation, having a PlayStation product in the top five makes sense to me.

And I think PS1 we could, we could probably make the argument for.

Oh, man, I know what you're saying, but like

Nintendo Wii

changed so like the innovation of the Nintendo Wii.

We don't have a rubric for this part, so it's more about gut, but like that chain, that was foundational.

I mean, that shook everything.

Does it impact anything that it was like that foundation was later reverted and everyone realized it was a big mistake?

No, I don't, but I don't think it was because it got people playing.

I think a huge challenge with video games at that time was just getting people to try them.

And I think, in the same way that like touch-based games on iPhones brought a lot of people into the circle you need that space you need the kind of like learning area and yeah we don't need that as much anymore because now it's more common for everybody to play yeah but don't if you're gonna make that argument does doesn't the NES do that better no I actually I don't think it does um I maybe the Super Nintendo but like the NES was not

the barn burner that brought people into video games compared to even something like Pac-Man or Pong like it was good it saved a video game industry that was spiraling out of, you know, the full collapse.

But I don't think it was, like,

the system that

got us to where we need to be.

Okay, that's fair.

I think it was cool enough.

It was the pilot, you know, saving the airplane from crashing into the airplane.

I'd be fine putting the Wii at five.

Okay.

I think that's a good point.

I think that's a sound argument.

All right.

You're only saying that because that means the GameCube is going to get higher.

I see exactly what you're doing.

What you did is you're going to be able to get the...

Oh, GameCube is five.

I'm not saying the Wii is five.

You can't say that the GameCube beats the Wii in one round and then in the very next round say that the Wii is better than the GameCube.

That's unhinged.

Hey, you're right.

You're right.

That's a bridge too far.

Even for the besties, it's a bit much.

Okay, Wii is five.

What other one is?

Switching is four.

You had a good run.

Good job, buddy.

I love you.

Dreamcast, boy.

Dreamcast in at one.

I think Xbox 363, and now we can have the real conversation, which is Switch versus Dreamcast.

I actually come in towards this.

Really?

I disagree.

I love the Switch.

I think Switch 3, Xbox 362, Dreamcast to best.

Can you just tell us why Dreamcast to best?

Because we've been dancing around it this whole episode, and it needs its time.

Dreamcast.

You know that scene in Alien?

When Alien shows up?

Uh-huh.

And he's like, oh, fuck, how is this guy gonna kill this guy?

And it opens its mouth, like, oh, he's gonna eat him.

But then another smaller alien comes out of the alien's mouth to eat him.

That's what it was like the first time I popped the virtual memory unit out and was like, Wait a minute, this game console just shit out a small game console that I can take with me to school to feed my if you didn't know it was a memory card that had a tiny screen and even tinier buttons on it.

And it was incredible.

You would be playing a Shinmu and you would fucking see a prompt on the screen that's like, B, B, B, B, B, press B.

But you would also see it on your VMU if you were looking down at your controller for some reason.

And that's fucking great.

That's crazy.

Do we not get it all for the fact that even though it was basically a mandatory attachment to your console, it was not included in the box?

I think it was included in the box eventually.

No?

I think there might have been a bundle, but by default.

It's a little game console.

It's not going to be free.

Wait, that can't.

yeah also it it's still part of it we've been including things that are outside of the box itself for a while here

um i it's such a wild

thing to do it did so much more

too because like griffin it had multiplayer you could plug a vmu into another vmu

like an avatar like a gigapet just like in avatar's gigapit do you guys think that dreamcast is the best looking video game console of all time?

I think it looks so cool.

I think it looks so cool.

It looks so cool that

it's

here with this.

It's round and square at the same time.

How's that possible?

In the logo?

It's round and square, and then it's got a giant triangle on it.

Hey, how many video game consoles have a logo that is not like a lettermark that you remember?

I mean, the Super Famicom, for sure.

That might be it.

That might be it.

So I think, and the controller looks great.

I will say, though, guys, the Dreamcast controller to hold

is not a real treat

to you.

And if you don't have a VMU because you didn't buy one, it does look very shitty to just have a hole in your hand.

The triggers are also pretty rotten on the Dreamcast controller.

I'm not sure about the squeakiness of these triggers.

They would get very squeaky over time.

And again,

even though I acknowledge, I guess we're putting it up against what, the Switch?

Switch and the 360.

We're talking about three examples of very unreliable consoles because each one of them, either a disk read error or stick drift or the three lights on the front of your Xbox 360.

Yeah.

So I guess it's a wash at that point.

Yeah.

I, I, yeah, the controller kind of fails the Dreamcast a bit.

Hey, uh, other, other things for the Dreamcast here, though.

uh built with dual booting capacity for windows so if we're talking about.

Yeah, but you would have to be a super fucking huge dork to do that.

Okay.

Like, how big of a dork was you?

I mean, the Dreamcast was the first one.

I get it.

I was a dork.

You don't have to say it out loud.

Like, the Dreamcast was the first console I got online to play Phantasy Star Online.

Yes.

And that was pretty easy to do.

Yeah.

The first game I played online was NFL 2K.

Yeah.

Known Sports Guy.

Also, you could get an adapter to go beyond 56K when you wanted to go online.

That's true.

56K.

Sure, if you want to play with the big boys.

The interface also, if that is something you care about, is kind of iconic.

I feel like anytime you had to manage your data through the Dreamcast interface, it was always,

I don't know, it had such, that is such a vibe to me of the era.

I mean, I think the 360 interface is like, that's the gold standard of this era.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I guess I look at it as Dreamcast in terms of innovation, setting the template, does a little bit of everything.

It gets people online before that is common.

It gets them online fast, which was even more unusual.

Its online features were like quite robust in terms of it's hard not to talk about the games here, but something like Phantasy Star online having literally translation features in it is I don't know.

I can't consider that.

The Switch, ignoring that, the Switch is a more innovative console by like a fucking mile.

I think, in terms of just,

yes, it's a portable thing, but

I think it's like really hard to ignore the fact that the Dreamcast literally had Windows built into it and made it so you can develop for it.

That is a huge thing.

I can get it.

It's not as like...

It's not as good.

Forget that.

Like, what percentage of people actually fucking did that?

No, buddy.

Nobody ever did.

What do you mean?

i i think

i think oh god

let's do the rubric i i know that i know that the switch is gonna win here which is weird um but i want to just go through the rubric so i think dreamcast to best i'm still firmly in camp dreamcast to best i think it's fine i'm a rubric i'm a sucker for like the history of the and dreamcast changed fucking everything and then it failed catastrophically in doing so it died for our sins so that it walked and fell over and died so that other consoles could run.

One of its features, you could just pirate all of the games if you wanted.

I pirated every fucking game on the Dreamcast.

Yeah, nobody talks about that feature.

Okay, which box looks cooler?

Congratulations, Dreamcast.

Dreamcast.

Yeah.

Which is more innovative in terms of features than the guy.

I think I'll give it to the Switch.

Let's give it to the Switch for now.

Which has the more comfortable control the Dreamcast, ironically.

I think we just discussed how it wasn't and it was a misery to hold.

None of us.

I held filmed Joy-Cons.

I mean,

now if you are saying that I really, okay, now I really hate using the Joy-Cons.

I really hate using the Joy-Cons.

Okay, but Pro Controller, do we count that?

I mean, that's...

You got to pay extra.

I mean,

we've been considering that for everything else, and I love, I think the Pro Controller is pretty sad.

Yeah, the Pro Controller is a good one.

I think the Switch leads to Dreamcast.

Think about those triggers, guys.

It sucks.

Yeah, on comfort, I'll give it to him.

I think Cooler controller, Dreamcast, I'm fine with that.

Reliability, they're all pretty shitty in different ways.

And which is more portable, Switch.

The Switch.

I think the Switch wins.

I think Dreamcast is not the best.

You don't have to be grade to the rubric, though.

Again, it is a strike.

I put a ring on it.

Why are we giving reliability to the Switch?

We're not giving it to anybody.

Yeah, it's a wrong.

Okay, but can you.

So it's just a tie.

It's like, it doesn't count.

But what if it did, right?

Just because, like, is there any way for us to quantify that?

It sucks that we can't

reusing one of the rubrics in the final consideration.

We can keep it.

And let's look at the reliability issues.

When the Xbox 360 fails, you just don't have a console.

When the Dreamcast fails, you can't play certain discs.

You have to put a dictionary on top of the...

When the Nintendo Switch fails, sometimes Link runs around when you don't want it to run around.

I guess you're saying that, yes, it is less catastrophic.

Yeah, I don't hear a lot about just switches just not fucking working anymore.

Yeah,

I'm sure that it happens, but yeah, I guess, yeah, I think reliability, I think, for in that case, does go to switch.

Damn it.

I mean, I think Dreamcast is a more interesting winner, but I think if we're, we, the scientists that we are, we need to look at the rubric.

I, I, I agree.

I would make, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's, I think it's a switch.

Switch to best?

Switch to best.

All right.

Dreamcast nothing.

I'd like to say though, what if

Dreamcast,

I still feel pretty certain Dreamcast to best, so I don't know where to go from here, guys.

Because I, the way I see it, Dreamcast to best.

I mean, do we want to re-litigate it from this, from the jump again and see if we get the same result?

Let's start back at the beginning.

Let's start back at the beginning and see what's going on.

Which boss was cooler, Dreamcast?

Which is more innovative in terms of UI and features?

Dreamcast.

It has the VMU.

Which has the more comfortable controller?

That fucking Switch was a portable.

That was the Switch because it transformed portability and gaming consoles.

So did the fucking VMU.

The VMU did that first.

You got a lot of VMU, credit, a follower.

There have been a lot of things like the VMU since that.

That's true, Nintendo.

You're fucking counting the Game Boy.

The Switch doesn't even happen if.

Oh, shit.

Because Sega said, what if it was a console you could play at home and on the go?

And Nintendo was like, yeah, we'll steal that idea.

In 20 years.

Wow.

Okay.

Fair enough.

Awesome.

You know what?

Guess what, guys?

Dreamcast.

I knew it.

I knew it.

I knew it.

Thank you, my bias.

You did it again.

My biases have been confirmed.

Thank you.

Listen, if you're feeling sore about that, Nintendo's got three fucking consoles in the top five.

And also, Sega doesn't even get to make these anymore.

So like, let us have a moment for them.

Let them have fun.

It's the only context in which, I mean, it does kind of feel like in hindsight that we created created a contest that only the dreamcast could win yes

uh but congratulations to the dreamcast thanks to you for listening we appreciate you we have run very long here so let's wrap up quickly and just say thank you so much for your support i hope you're pleased with the outcome All right, that's going to do it for us at the besties.

Until next time, be sure to join us again next month for the besties because should the world's best friends pick the world's best games?

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