There’s Always a Lighthouse, a Pokémon, a City

Speaker 1 What are you guys going for, Halloween? Oh no.

Speaker 1 Genuinely,

Speaker 1 I have a big problem because

Speaker 1 my big concern was that, and I think I talked about on Rusty's, that my son would pull a curveball and not want to dress up as the thing he was asking to dress up as. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Which happened last year. It's kid law, dude.
Kids get messages. Kids get WhatsApps about.
My kid doesn't even have WhatsApps. He just gets WhatsApp messages.

Speaker 1 She's like, well, dang it. I got to change.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So this happened last year.
And this was after we bought a Yoshi costume for him.

Speaker 1 And then we last minute dressed him up as Link from Legend of Zelda. This year,

Speaker 1 somehow, I was able to mind-trick him into wearing the Yoshi costume from last year, which

Speaker 1 so he's into that. The problem is, I've spent all this mental energy, and I have no fucking idea what I'm going to dress as.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, there's still time.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to be able to do that. What is going on

Speaker 1 this year?

Speaker 2 My son is a firm rule in the house. He says,

Speaker 1 I am a ghost.

Speaker 1 Pasta, our dog, is a ghost. Mommy and Daddy are not ghosts.
They are parents. And I say, that is fair.
I'm happy with that. I like that he sounds like Dracula, though.

Speaker 2 He has been watching a lot of very classic Universal Monster movies, so he might be kind of picking up that cadence.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's working. How about you, Hoops?

Speaker 1 well my kids are gonna be k-pop demon hunters yeah sure and uh wait wait wait wait was there an argument over because there's only two of them

Speaker 1 so there what about the third one

Speaker 1 what

Speaker 1 oh oh sorry yes i understand the question now sorry it took me a second for my brain to catch up there are only two of by of them you meant my children correct that i brought into the first yeah with my little

Speaker 1 unrepresented k-pop my wife and i'm their manager bobby right so this is I am disappointed. It's a great gig for me.

Speaker 1 I'm so stoked because Bobby, like the classic look for Bobby is just a kind of a robe with t-shirt and sweats, man. I'm like feeling it.
I'm really excited about the role.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's you're living large. Cindy and I are also going to do Mothman and Braxy.
Who's Braxy? Braxy is the. No, sorry.

Speaker 1 Braxy is the Braxton monster. Oh.

Speaker 1 She is going to be the flower. You it monster.

Speaker 2 Does California have folklore monsters? I feel like the East Coast has all these amazing folk monsters. And then I move to California and it's like, you're the

Speaker 2 five freeway.

Speaker 1 My wife is going to be the Flatwoods monster who is also known as Braxy. Got it.
Because they're from Braxton County. And

Speaker 1 there we go. Yeah.
That's the clarification for you. I don't know about Braxi.
Braxy

Speaker 1 is from Braxton County.

Speaker 1 Let's see. Let's see.
According to the wiki, because I want to give you just like like facts, because if I give you hearsay, then that's not really going to tell you much. Sure.

Speaker 1 From Flatwoods, West Virginia. Got a big sort of pointed head with two big yellow eyes, small little claw hands.

Speaker 1 There's a huge chair in Braxton County that looks like the Flatwoods monster that you can sit in.

Speaker 1 Give you guys a

Speaker 1 pissed if I sit in his chair?

Speaker 1 It's more of a throne. Oh.
So definitely pissed. So more pissed, yeah, because there is some symbolic power.

Speaker 1 Hold on.

Speaker 2 Oh, no. I found a picture of it, and it's not what I want.
Like

Speaker 2 kids sitting. All the photos are like three kids having time as a dead-eyed giant colossal monster leers over them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 2 Wow, what an upsetting little critter.

Speaker 1 Giant guy. Nah, Braxy rolls.
So we're going to be Braxy Mothman. Okay.
It's going to be good.

Speaker 2 I'll include the picture in the newsletter because, geez.

Speaker 1 Do the Braxy sound.

Speaker 1 braxy the flatwoods monster wait no i mean what does braxy say oh braxy's oh okay oh the say the famous saying yeah yeah braxy's famous saying uh-huh well

Speaker 1 actually guys actually guys i'm not actually supposed to be talking about this i forgot that we're that this is not a west virginia safe space and

Speaker 1 braxy would prefer that we not talk outside of west virginia that's very forget i said anything i'm sorry i respect that Here, Men in Black. Miriam.

Speaker 2 No, damn.

Speaker 1 Listener, if you're still listening to this, rewind it and listen to the Men in Black sound again. And then fast forward past this part.

Speaker 1 No, listen. If you're still listening, you have to skip ahead.

Speaker 1 One of those will work. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 My name is Justin Ackery and I know the best game of the week.

Speaker 2 My name is Christopher Thomas Plant, and I know the best game of the week.

Speaker 1 My name is Russ Fruschik. I know the best game of the week.
Welcome to the Besties, where we talk about the latest and greatest in home interactive entertainment.

Speaker 1 It's a video game club, and just by listening, you, my friend, have become a of the club here's what happened okay

Speaker 1 griffin caught so many pokemon that his back broke and now he can't move anymore so he can't carry the show can't carry all the pokemon so he's not with us to talk about a pokemon game he's sorry i actually locked him out of the studio he's pounding on the door outside please let me in he says the saddest thing about it too is he had all the pokemon but one on his back and his hands just juggling all the pokeballs and then he just had to get that last one he had to collect them all, despite the warning, you can't collect them all.

Speaker 2 And he reached for it, and let me tell you,

Speaker 1 the weirdest thing about it,

Speaker 2 it was at the top of

Speaker 2 these stairs, about 300 stairs going up a mountain. And then he reached for it, and then all the balls just went down the stairs.
And it was Weedle.

Speaker 1 Surprisingly, it was Weedle.

Speaker 2 And it was Weedle.

Speaker 1 So, guys, when you come up and you yank, you yank the microphone out of my hand like that, you got to keep the show moving towards like, because we do have to do the parts where we say the name of

Speaker 1 the remember, right? Russ was like, he got up on stage, like, Kanye, he ripped it out of my hands. Like, wait, wait, wait, hold on.

Speaker 2 We're talking about the latest and the greatest, but this week we're talking about Pokemon Z to A and Keeper. What is Pokemon Z to A, Chris Plant? Well, thank you so much for asking.

Speaker 2 Pokemon Z to A or Z A or Z Alpha or whatever you want to call it is the latest Pokemon entry, and it is a follow-up to Pokemon Legends Arceus.

Speaker 2 But where that one was in the past, this one is in the pseudo-future. And we've got another great game for you.
We have Keeper, the latest game from Double Fine. That's right.

Speaker 2 Tim Schaefer is still making games.

Speaker 1 He never got enough.

Speaker 1 Lee Petty made this game, Chris Plant. Come on.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 From the creator of Stacked, which was, I enjoyed

Speaker 1 in other games. Stacked, that was my adult porno game.
Stacking was the one that was a game. Stacked was my penthouse shit.
Interactive adventure.

Speaker 2 Man, you can get Griffin off the NBA punchy.

Speaker 1 Can I take the break?

Speaker 2 No, you can't because we just want to give you a moment to know that we are also available on Patreon. And if you want this comedic greatness, you can get it for $5 a month.
Or you don't want ads.

Speaker 2 Hey, there's a $10 a cheer and it's live right now, every episode ad-free. Anyway, hey, Justin, take it away.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 This episode of the Besties is sponsored by Alienware. You know, Alienware's biggest sale of the season lets you unleash peak performance at Black Friday Savings.

Speaker 1 Save on select Alienware PCs like the groundbreaking Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop, taking performance to the next level with Intel Core Ultra processors.

Speaker 1 Plus, you can save on all the latest accessories and displays like the Alienware 27 4K QD OLED gaming monitor. Visit alienware.com slash deals before those time-limited savings end.

Speaker 1 I want to say that there was more I could have done to stop Chris Plant earlier, but I get high off of Russ being mad at somebody other than me sometimes. I love the feeling of it.

Speaker 1 I just want to fan the flames of the brake

Speaker 1 okay pokemon legends za

Speaker 1 the legendary za

Speaker 1 let's i'm gonna ask questions as a pokemon idiot okay and pretend that that's me okay sure which i i there which flavor of pokemon is this uh okay good question which kind of a pokemon sure so there's uh the mainline turn-based pokemon this is not that This is the new, I guess, action, more action-inspired Pokemon game, which first started off with Pokemon Legends.

Speaker 1 Arceus, which was a, again, more action. That was a Western.
That was the one that was set in like ancient Japan-ish.

Speaker 1 Okay, yes. We played that one, right? Yes.
And I didn't hate it. It didn't make me as sad as some of the other ones, right?

Speaker 1 It looks like a real video game, notably, where the other Pokemons look like a baby kind of a game. I mean, it has 3D graphics, so in that way, it's.
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it is the. Okay, so I'm remembering this now.
So it's kind of Pokemon, a little bit more of a modern vibe aesthetically? Well,

Speaker 1 the Arceus was not, or Arceus was like ancient Japan.

Speaker 1 I guess I meant technically speaking, but yes, I understand this.

Speaker 1 Well, I guess it's great.

Speaker 1 Let me dive in on the top level and we'll handle the top level questions and then we'll get to it below.

Speaker 1 Pokemon Legends ZA

Speaker 1 is set in the city that I think was first appeared in Pokemon X. Whatever.

Speaker 1 It's a fucking French city that has appeared in a previous Pokemon game, and the entire game takes place in this city, and the premise of the city is that humans and Pokemon live together in this city in harmony.

Speaker 1 They have these wild areas where the Pokemon generally chill out, and then they have like city areas, and then you'll see like a bunch of Pokemon just walking around within the city.

Speaker 1 From a gameplay standpoint, this continues the stuff that they were doing in Legends Arceus, where all of your battles are taking place in real time.

Speaker 1 Your moves are on cooldown, so you'll do like a fire attack move, and then you can't use that for five seconds, so maybe you'll do a different move, and you're fighting Pokemon at the same time, like other Pokemon at the same time.

Speaker 1 So it feels much more, I guess, action-y than you would find in like the turn-based, I pick confusion, they pick blah, blah, blah, and goes back and forth like that.

Speaker 1 So it's a pretty significant change, and this is the first time, uh,

Speaker 1 this is, I guess, the first major mainline Pokemon game coming to Switch 2.

Speaker 1 It's also on Switch 1 for what it's worth, but that is, I think, a noteworthy moment my impression of the the arceus was that it was like overall a much faster moving experience right like it it felt a lot snappier and more fluid both in like running around and the combat and stuff is this like still yeah like does it still have the fast pace yeah the movement everything like that if you played arceus uh moving around the world things like that are still very fast paced i know plant played a little bit of it um and the

Speaker 2 it's very fast paced once you get past the first three hours, which is, to be fair, the rule of all Pokemon games. Yeah, I don't think Arceus 2 or Arceus or whatever.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't think it's

Speaker 1 probably closer to two hours. It might have felt like three hours.
I was genuinely timing it because I was curious when they actually let the wheels off.

Speaker 1 I was starting to catch Pokemon and do things within like an hour and a half, which not great. Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1 Yeah, TDC. Not catch.
But it does kind of come with the territory of this franchise.

Speaker 1 But once I was, I felt like I had a lot of freedom. I could go literally anywhere in the city whenever I wanted to.

Speaker 1 Granted, there were Pokemon that was much higher level and I had no chance of catching them.

Speaker 1 But I did have the freedom to go around and find locations and find items and all sorts of stuff much earlier than I think you do even in a normal Pokemon game, which tends to be very

Speaker 1 siloed off. Yeah.
Yeah. Which I think was the big difference.

Speaker 1 There is, I think, a big element to this that I know Griffin probably would have spoken to if he was on this episode, and that's the divide between the Legends series, which for lack of a better term, there are now two games in that series, and the like core mainline turn-based Pokémon games, the Pokémon Sword and Shield and the X and Y, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 Right now, it feels like

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 overall amount of content in the Legends series is much, much less than you would see in a turn-based Pokemon, like core Pokemon game.

Speaker 1 Just in terms of areas that you're finding, the sheer number of Pokemon,

Speaker 1 like things that you're doing to really mix it up. I was actually kind of blown away because, you know, I mentioned that the entire game takes place in the city.
The city is like a very simple,

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 1 generously could look like a PS2 game, PS3, maybe. It's really simple.

Speaker 2 I think that's honestly the part that hurts that intro a bit, because, again, I did like Arceus.

Speaker 2 How do I say it?

Speaker 1 I think it's Arceus, but who fucking cares? It's a made-up Pokemon.

Speaker 2 Even though that game looks worse, it has the advantage of being in the past and being in a really open space. So your mind can fill that in, the visual fidelity.

Speaker 2 In the beginning of this game, you're walking through streets and it's like,

Speaker 2 it's like that bit in The Simpsons where like, well, have you ever noticed in cartoons when top, they run out of money, they start using the same hallway over and over and over and over again.

Speaker 2 And it's like the street decorations to convey this is city is

Speaker 2 lots of lit windows and trash cans.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's a Parisian city. You can tell that it's like inspired by Paris, but it is a lot of repetition of assets and things like that.
In the same way that the

Speaker 1 miraculous mobile game is set in Paris, this too is set in Paris.

Speaker 1 Is this sort of like the horizons of

Speaker 1 Pokemon? Is this like the more are there people that prefer this style of game over the game? There are, and those people are me. You've met me.

Speaker 1 I've played probably every mainline turn-based Pokemon game ever. And right around Sun and Moon, maybe the one after that, I started losing Steam.

Speaker 1 My level of interest was kind of flagging just because there's only so many fucking times you can play that game over and over again.

Speaker 1 Now, again, speaking for Griffin, he could play that game over and over again till the cows come home.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure he could tell us all about Pokemon breeding and how the DNA of this attack speed versus this Pokemon's attack speed is vastly different. And that is super engaging to him.

Speaker 1 I don't want to be dismissive of the people that... Look, it's a much deeper game when you're playing the turn-based game.
For me, to get me engaged in it, it needed to change dramatically.

Speaker 2 Well, it's the feeling of being in the world, right?

Speaker 2 I think this is the thing that a large chunk of Pokemon players, myself included, wanted really since the Nintendo 64, which was, oh, you have the ability to drop me into a 3D world.

Speaker 2 I want a Pokemon game where I get to walk around and see all the Pokemon out and about and like interact with them and have the fights happen in the real world. Get me out of these menus.

Speaker 2 And it does that for the most part.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's a little menu stuff, but largely, largely, yeah, you're summoning Pokemon without going into menus.

Speaker 1 You're switching between Pokemon, like all that stuff is happening really at real time,

Speaker 1 which helps a lot.

Speaker 1 It's interesting, though, when you talk about the environments, right? Like looking at the city environments,

Speaker 1 it reminds you of, and this is maybe like too cynical of a take on Pokemon, but

Speaker 1 part of that static nature of the franchise seems like so intentional because when they do evolve it beyond that, it's like they have to start comparing it to what else has been happening like if they stay in that rigid sort of like what Pokemon is quote unquote then there's a lot of ways in which they don't have to evolve because it's like no this is what Pokemon this is like it doesn't have you don't have to compare it to modern games because this is a Pokemon game so like it's a deliberate thing but when you start putting it in a 3d environment then I think it's very natural to start comparing it to other 3D environments and saying like this really can't compare I mean it does not look like a modern game i think there are so it has been in 3d for quite a while this is not a new thing that it's a 3d game it's worth knowing that the latest pokemon games that have been in 3d like the last several have run like fiery dog shit including arceus did not run great like it ran pretty poorly the fact that this is able to run relatively steady on a switch one and then at 60 fps on a switch two

Speaker 1 i think It's possible that some of the design decisions that they made in addition to what we were just talking about was also, this is the only way we can get this game running properly because I don't think the engine is very good.

Speaker 1 So, I think there is

Speaker 1 they're making some decisions there as well.

Speaker 2 I think the like fans of the game would agree with you, Hoops, generally, on the wow, they're not putting a ton of money into this, and uh, it is kind of repeating the same thing over and over again.

Speaker 2 But there's a reason that people keep coming back to these things, which is the Pokémon are very cute and cool and interesting, or maybe the story is like Fresh, what what about this one?

Speaker 1 Are you like, it works here versus okay, so this is the

Speaker 1 this is the thing that I can't necessarily explain to someone like Justin, who I can try, but you're going to have to put yourself in the shoes of someone that grew up with Pokemon, which I know you didn't.

Speaker 1 Try to pretend to be like my brother. Yeah, try to pretend to be your brother.

Speaker 1 So when you look at a Pokemon game, you're kind of taking it at face value, which is to say, like taking it just as a gameplay experience. You have to- Well, I'm super.

Speaker 1 Well, first of all, I'm super horny. Super, oh, yeah.
Because I'm Greg.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah.
Sorry, good. And I'm super horny.
Yeah. And sorry, go ahead.
I won't interrupt you. No, it's fine.

Speaker 1 So you're taking it at face value, you're looking at gameplay mechanics, things like that. When I see Tepig,

Speaker 1 there is a surge of enthusiasm that runs through my veins that has been in there since the dawn of time.

Speaker 1 So it is tapping into that nostalgia in a way that someone who didn't grow up with it would have no association with whatsoever.

Speaker 1 And that keeps happening over and over again because as you're walking through the city, oh shit, there's fucking haunter or there's a giant version of haunter and that's really exciting.

Speaker 1 I'm going to go catch it. So there is,

Speaker 1 Russ, I'm kind of, my feelings are a little bit hurt that you think just because I don't like Pokemon, I don't understand the idea of being a sucker.

Speaker 1 I understand being a sucker.

Speaker 1 Just say, I'm a sucker. Yeah, imagine being a sucker.
Hoops, hoops, hoops.

Speaker 2 You got to go back to Horny Griffin. I'll give you a copy of a stat.

Speaker 1 No, he's a sucker, too. He's just not on the call.
I can't bully him. I'll call him later and bully him if you want.

Speaker 1 I agree that there is 100% a we are taking advantage of the nostalgia to sell toys or sell games or whatever it is, but it is checking the box for me in ways that like no Pokemon game of the last several years has done for me.

Speaker 1 So like, I guess, but like, why? I'm just curious why.

Speaker 1 Like, what is the I think the introduction of the new gameplay in a way it like the fact that it's action-y and and then you throw in the fact that like I'm directly controlling all these Pokemon that I have an emotional connection with works for me in ways and it actually runs well this time and it is like RCS was a great proof of concept this yeah it's real I mean and I know you liked RCS did you stick with RCS Russ did you I didn't put a lot of time into it no but because it ran like shit that was my big sticking point with it it's also worth remembering and we've said this before, but I will reiterate it, these games are made for kids.

Speaker 1 And when I play with my child, who's four,

Speaker 1 he fucking loves it. He loves watching.
He loves asking me to catch certain Pokemon. He loves asking me what types of Pokemon they are.

Speaker 1 And I do think for that sort of youngster, I would say from like four to

Speaker 1 10, this is like fucking pure catnip. And the simplicity of the world that we see as like, oh, this is basic ass shit is actually, well, for them, it's legible.
It's legible. No, it's a great point.

Speaker 1 You know what, Russ? It's a really good, it's, that's so good to remember. And it really should be the, the start and the beginning of these, like the start and the end of these discussions is like,

Speaker 1 they are contextualizing an experience that kids should be able to continue to have just because they are getting older and time is evolving.

Speaker 1 Like they should be able to have like a, their own version of it without adults being like, time to add guns.

Speaker 1 Yeah, or, or even time to add like the complexity of of like, oh, breeding and SP rates and whatever the fuck else that get added in the main line. The main line is so heavy with that stuff now.

Speaker 1 And this is really a, how do you raise the friendship of a Pokemon in this game? You take them to a cafe and you drink tea with them. That's how you do it.

Speaker 2 Just

Speaker 2 hoops, next week we will be playing, I want to make sure I get the title right, Digimon Story Time Stranger.

Speaker 2 So I figured you probably want to make like 50, 60 hours for that. If Griffin has not started playing this, actually, honestly, I will be crushed.

Speaker 2 I really want to know what he thinks about the Digimon game

Speaker 2 because somebody is coming just a little bit for that Pokemon lunch.

Speaker 1 They're ready to try it out.

Speaker 1 Just to put a bow on this,

Speaker 1 I think for people that...

Speaker 1 Really liked RCS, they'll probably walk away really happy here. I think for people that are lapsed Pokemon fans, they might find something interesting here.

Speaker 1 You should watch some gameplay and see if it would be compelling to you. Is this a game I'm going to spend 60 60 fucking hours on? No, absolutely not.

Speaker 1 Would I be playing more of it if my son weren't super invested in it? Probably not.

Speaker 1 I think it's interesting. I like the way this is going.
I would love to see this scaled out into a more full-featured Pokemon game.

Speaker 1 But right now, it feels like they are moving in the right direction, but still not quite there yet. But still, I've been enjoying it.

Speaker 1 I'll also say the simplicity of the design does help to make the action more legible because there's a lot going on once you get several Pokemon cooking here. I'm watching in like gameplay footage.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's easy to kind of understand, you know, types and the attacks you have available to you. There's really, the HUD is actually pretty clean, all things considered.

Speaker 2 Hey, should we take a quick break and then come back and talk about a lighthouse that came to life?

Speaker 1 A lifehouse.

Speaker 2 That's nice.

Speaker 1 This episode of the Besties is sponsored by Alienware. You know, Alienware's biggest sale of the season lets you unleash peak performance at Black Friday savings.

Speaker 1 Save on select Alienware PCs like the groundbreaking Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop, taking performance to the next level with Intel Core Ultra processors.

Speaker 1 Plus, you can save on all the latest accessories and displays like the Alienware 27 4K QD OLED gaming monitor. Visit alienware.com/slash deals before those time-limited savings end.

Speaker 1 Keeper is the new game from Double Find. It is directed by Lee Petty, who's done art on many, many Double Fine games, but he was the lead on

Speaker 1 stacking. Headlander? Headlander and Rad, which I did not play Rad, but I don't know why I didn't play Rad.
It looks like it was a roguelike where, like a post-apocalyptic roguelike with kids in it.

Speaker 1 I didn't play Rad, so I don't know what the deal was with Rad, but it has been, I guess, six years since Rad, and this is the next game that like Lee Petty was the sort of like lead on, which I don't, I know we don't mention on a lot of games.

Speaker 1 I only kind of mention because I feel like Tim Schaefer and Double Fine are sort of some of the very last like

Speaker 1 studios that can still hang a name to a game. And I feel like Double Fine is kind of able to do that with Lee Petty just because they've been able to,

Speaker 1 they have done it repeatedly.

Speaker 1 It's also interesting because this came up a little bit in, if you watch Double Find the documentary, what was it called? The Double Find Journey, whatever that was on YouTube.

Speaker 1 This came up because they ended up at one point pulling team members from this game into the Psychonauts development to make sure that it actually came out.

Speaker 1 So this game was massively delayed because of the scale of the Psychonauts project.

Speaker 2 Also tied to the Double Fine documentary, the Double Fine documentarian who then turns into a game designer midway through the documentary worked on this game too, I believe.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it is a game where you are a lighthouse that is animated through some sort of magic that is not really explained to you. But you are clearly like sentient.
There is a relationship.

Speaker 1 It is a you are personifying this lighthouse in a sense, right? There are legs. There's, there's the light, which is sort of a face and an all-purpose eye.

Speaker 1 There's not a ton of emotion that is being communicated by that light, but there is a lot through the physicality of this lighthouse, which is not

Speaker 1 really designed to be ambulating around the environment.

Speaker 1 So whenever you see the lighthouse moving, like whenever you're controlling it, it always feels like you're just on the edge of like toppling over. It's that kind of movement

Speaker 1 around. yeah exactly and it's much more prominent like early on so it's not really about like

Speaker 1 control fidelity but it isn't trying to like intentionally sort of like make it unpleasant to control it's just uh not a mechanically like super dense game the main thing that you're doing as you sort of like make your way through the environment and you are led by uh

Speaker 1 I don't know,

Speaker 1 there's not really an overall sort of like thing that seems seems to be pulling you through. It's a journey, but you're not really sure like sort of where you're headed.

Speaker 1 It's a very sort of like shaggy dog sort of thing.

Speaker 2 It's a walking simulator in like the truest sense of the word, not as a negative.

Speaker 2 Like if we think of that as a genre, it is moving forward from point A to point B with just the lightest amount of puzzles

Speaker 2 between point A and point B.

Speaker 1 I would say, I mean, God, I hate using that term on a plant because I do feel like it is so dismissive. And I actually don't think it is,

Speaker 1 for me, that's a much more narrative thing but a walking simulator I think there's a lot of story that's tied to that and this is super not that and in fact I would say that like any attempts to sort of like project narrative onto it it is working pretty hard to share it wants feelings not stories yeah for sure like and the way that you're you interact with the world as the lighthouse is really like uh mainly shining a light like you're projecting your light and you can intensify it and focus on something, but that is the main thing you're doing in the environment.

Speaker 1 Now, now you can, like, you know, classic video game stuff, like you kill bad plants that have grown over things with your sunlight, you know, that kind of deal.

Speaker 1 But you also have this bird that flies around with you and hangs out on the lighthouse and will like help you with like switches and will follow your instructions to go like do some mild interactions and do some like puzzle solving that way.

Speaker 1 So, like, there are, it is not just a like,

Speaker 1 you know, floating through an amorphous environment, like pinging off. There's actual puzzles.
You're flipping switches and you're doing levers.

Speaker 2 When I say walking a simulator, I mean, I wish there was a better term for this, but it's a showcase for something other than the gameplay.

Speaker 2 So most walking simulators, or whatever we want to call these, yeah, it's, it's typically a showcase for narrative. Here, this is a showcase for art.

Speaker 1 It is like a beautiful picture book or art book, a coffee table book. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Parallel,

Speaker 1 Sword of the Sea,

Speaker 1 that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 I think. Sword of the Sea is a lot more fluid than this, but like

Speaker 1 that fluidity is part of what they want you to experience in the aesthetics. And this is very much about like

Speaker 1 letting you make your way through a really outrageously, generously

Speaker 1 gorgeous world. And they do.

Speaker 2 A few things to emphasize that. One is,

Speaker 2 yeah, it's just changing from moment to moment. The sheer variety of things that you will see in this game is incredible.
I cannot imagine how much time they spent just making these spaces.

Speaker 1 I never stop in games. I don't.
Like, I don't stop in games to look, but, like, I actually, a couple of times, like, went back. Like, did I just, hold on, I got to go look at that again.

Speaker 1 Because there's like background and foreground. Like, you couldn't take it all in.

Speaker 1 as design like you have to like vistas we're talking about

Speaker 1 vistas but like the depth of things. And it's not just that.
It's like

Speaker 1 the density and also

Speaker 1 there are very few pinnings to our world in the aesthetics of this world, right? So it's not like you're seeing, it's not like there's trees, but they're pink.

Speaker 1 It's like you will walk through what appears to be a...

Speaker 1 you know, a hundred yard field of taffy that like will pull and stretch with you. And like the world is so unlike what you have seen, you can't can't just like parse it as you're going through.

Speaker 1 You really have to like stop and look. What's the love's past phrase?

Speaker 2 It's like non-Euclidean architecture or something. It looks like of a different like a dreamscape.

Speaker 2 Yes, but like very

Speaker 1 tangible. It's so alien and foreign.

Speaker 1 Like it reminds me kind of like if you watch Scavenger's Reign, like the way the biology of that show is like so foreign to ours that it was almost kind of hard to grok. This is like that.

Speaker 1 Like you are, it is so much about the

Speaker 1 aesthetics of what you are seeing, like the beauty and the way it all interacts together.

Speaker 2 They do two other things to emphasize. Again, this is a game about looking.
One, the camera is more like a classic Resident Evil type of thing, where it is positioning itself.

Speaker 2 So it's really controlled visuals of they want you to see the world in this way.

Speaker 2 They also, in theory, need to do it because the way you control your character, you're controlling the light on the lighthouse, which is the second part of if you want to make a game about looking and the idea of like spotlighting wherever you're looking, making a game about a lighthouse is the way that you do that.

Speaker 2 So you are quite literally focusing the lighthouse, your character on the objects around you. And some of that is to solve puzzles.
A lot of that is just to see the world.

Speaker 1 Justin,

Speaker 1 you're

Speaker 1 a good chunk into it, correct? Yeah. So what you've described so far is like

Speaker 1 something that doesn't necessarily sound like it doesn't necessarily evolve from a gameplay standpoint, obviously evolves from a visual standpoint.

Speaker 1 Is that the case, or do they throw in curveballs as you're progressing through it? No, there's definitely curveballs.

Speaker 1 I just did a pretty, I mean,

Speaker 1 pretty chunky platforming

Speaker 1 level.

Speaker 1 And I

Speaker 1 don't know how it evolves beyond that.

Speaker 1 It is one of those games where a closer to say like like the mechanics are pretty light, but once you get one, it moves, it dispenses with it, moves on and teaches you.

Speaker 1 Like it's it's very fat, very fluid in that sense.

Speaker 1 It evolves more too.

Speaker 2 But to like to go into any greater detail would be to spoil kind of the fun because the whole magic is the like.

Speaker 2 oh, this is the thing that is happening for these five to 15 minutes. But I will say like it it evolves a good deal past what it starts as.
It's, it's always the same.

Speaker 2 It's always about moving forward. It's all about being in these worlds, but the way that you do that changes.

Speaker 1 I will say also that this is,

Speaker 1 for me, I think the thing that is most notable

Speaker 1 about

Speaker 1 Keeper.

Speaker 1 And this is, you know, it's weird thinking about this as a Double Fine game because for me, Double Fine has always been so present throughout my entire career in game journalism but it really it's been four years since the last release from double fine it's been four years since psychonauts 2 uh but i was thinking about this is the first game from them

Speaker 1 that i can remember that is not in some way

Speaker 1 a humorous like is not in some way

Speaker 1 even if it's not a direct like um uh joke or a joke filled game there's like an irony or a cool or like a silly or like you're looking for the wink in almost everything.

Speaker 1 And I feel like a part of that is like the DNA of Tim Schaefer bringing over from like LucasArts and, you know, his, his comedy background there.

Speaker 1 I feel like that was a huge part of the double find DNA. And I'm not complaining about it, but it is really like

Speaker 1 there is a strength of the convictions that this game has that it is not trying to be funny at all and it's not trying to be cute or even winky.

Speaker 1 It's like it's really earnestly expecting you to engage engage with it in a really direct way without trying to be cute about what it's doing or ironic about it which i think is really really really laudable uh for for the studio that is such a great point and also i'm realizing this is their wally or at least the first 30 minutes of wally

Speaker 2 where wow we've been making these silly light fun things and now here's this

Speaker 2 We're all getting older. We're all thinking about death.
I mean, you could call it their choice story for another thing that's not

Speaker 2 really super funny.

Speaker 1 It's about death.

Speaker 1 Whatever, man. Forky.
Toy Story for a ride.

Speaker 1 I love that movie so much. No, it's a great movie, but you're right.
But it's, but there it, but like, even that is a comedy, right? Yeah. This is self-reflection.

Speaker 1 This is like, this really earnestly, it is not using. I think sometimes comedy, you know, games can lean on that.

Speaker 1 And it's like, well, you can't take anything we're doing too seriously because it's, it's a joke game. It's a goof.
It's a goof. And this is really not that.
It feels like,

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't want to overstate it, but like,

Speaker 1 I can't think of a lot of American-made games that have gotten this close to like a Miyazaki sort of vibe. But that's where it's sitting for me.

Speaker 2 Or

Speaker 2 what's his name? The French

Speaker 1 Otherworld.

Speaker 2 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 Borat? He's not French, Chris. Yeah, no.
He's not French.

Speaker 1 Who made that game? Where did you think Borat is French?

Speaker 1 Is it because Sasha Baron Cohen? It sounds like a French guy. He does do French accents accents in a lot of movies, but no, he's not French.

Speaker 2 He's borad. It's going to come to me.

Speaker 1 Great success. It doesn't even sound French.
This is very exciting.

Speaker 1 I spent so much time in the Pokemon Legends world that I didn't get to play this game this week, but I actually really am jazzed about it and hearing about it now.

Speaker 1 I will say this. It is really a game that,

Speaker 1 like,

Speaker 1 it doesn't play great on

Speaker 1 the we have heard anecdotally and personally, it is not great on the handhelds, but I would really say, like,

Speaker 1 don't play it on a handheld. You want it on a big screen? Don't put it on the big screen, plug it in, and then, like, do the whole thing.
Like, do it, turn the lights down low,

Speaker 1 light a candle, you know, get some massage oil and just really enjoy it. You know what I mean? Get in there and

Speaker 1 make it. Chris, your window for the French person has lost.
It's gone.

Speaker 2 No, it's Eric Chahi.

Speaker 1 Come back.

Speaker 2 Eric Chahi.

Speaker 1 Damn, that's good. But my point about how it being an American, the closest American has gotten, like, still stands in because Eric Shahi is French.
Yeah, that's,

Speaker 2 I was making a comparison to anonymous. I was helping.
I was building.

Speaker 1 Okay. Keeper is,

Speaker 1 it's really, really, it's really good. And it's, and it is, if I, you know, you mention it, and I'm, I'll, I'll, because you were talking about people getting older or whatever.
I will say

Speaker 1 this is

Speaker 1 a level of craft with game design where like, and maybe I'm probably too quick to attribute that to Double Fine because of the documentaries in part because I've seen you know those so richly detail the amount of care and love and work that goes into every element of their game is because they're documenting it right so I have more of a sense of it maybe with the studio but I will say there is a there is a craft to making you feel things with game design

Speaker 1 that is not

Speaker 1 numbers based, that is not getting better damage, that is not getting a better weapon, that is not

Speaker 1 just progressing, right? It is that like, how do you make a game that rewards play and just like feels good to experiment with? And like, that is what is here.

Speaker 1 Like, that is what this game has to offer. If you can slow down to engage with it, it is not a like.

Speaker 1 addictive experience. It is a like something you can really like enjoy and rewards

Speaker 1 that enjoyment and rewards that with, I think, more depth and more understanding.

Speaker 1 And if you look for a lot more concrete story beneath the surface if you want to go searching for it.

Speaker 1 There's also a lot in like achievement text and things like that where they're like fleshing out backstory and things like that if you're interested. I love that.
Yeah, it's cool. Very cool.
Cool.

Speaker 1 We have some reader mail to go through if you guys are interested. Yeah.

Speaker 1 This one comes from Lily J.

Speaker 1 I am a second year college student studying music composition, and my professor was one of the people hired to write the music for the radio stations in the outer worlds too

Speaker 1 which is something Justin you remember you talked about last week yeah

Speaker 1 he told me about the process behind it and they basically set had a set of composers hired by composer hired by the studio and he was basically told you have two weeks to make 80 songs which they were cut down to like eight to ten that actually made it in the game having talked to him as well as the composer of avowed I have learned just how much of a quote clusterfuck their words it is to write music for a huge game like this and it's something that is rarely talked about.

Speaker 1 Often, composers have very little say into how their music is used and are directed very vaguely with extremely limited time to finish their work.

Speaker 1 I thought you might find this interesting given the conversation about radio music in the last episode, specifically where Justin was wishing that they had more music.

Speaker 1 I guess they didn't make more music. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Also, in case you're wondering, he did specifically did the music for the math people where all the songs are about math. I mean, those are all great.
Great songs. And they're great.

Speaker 1 It's like, and if I could clarify that complaint, it is not so much that

Speaker 1 i wanted more of it it's that they are good enough that you notice them and once you notice them you notice them when they loop after 30 minutes that because they are good because they get in your head and you do stop and take notice and it's not like welcome to the jungle where like i can listen to welcome the jungle a hundred times and i'm not going to notice welcome to the jungle is on yeah you know

Speaker 1 it's very interesting yeah very interesting uh this letter comes from chloe r hi besties big fan of the show and post games, of course.

Speaker 1 I am wondering if you could speak a bit about how you choose the games to feature in each episode.

Speaker 1 I know you are enjoying some Hades 2, my game of the year for sure, as well as some other big releases like, what was that, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2? We'll talk about it.

Speaker 1 So I'm curious, what makes you pass on a particular game? Is it purely a time constraint issue, or is there more strategy involved behind the scenes?

Speaker 2 Okay, I want to go deep on the Hades 2 because we get a lot of comments and emails asking us why we have not spent a full additional episode on Hades 2.

Speaker 1 So I have gone through several periods of loving Hades 2 since it hit 1.0 and I am currently in yet another one.

Speaker 1 The challenge that I have, and Justin, as the person who spent more time playing Hades games than anyone else, the challenge that I have, I don't know how to speak about Hades 2 in an interesting way beyond, holy shit, this game is amazing.

Speaker 1 And we we could talk about the gameplay mechanics a little bit, but like, I don't know dude. It's, I mean, Hades 2 is kind of a specific example, but like, it has evolved a lot over time.

Speaker 1 I will say that it has evolved over years.

Speaker 1 And speaking to it, like, there is an expectation that we are able to speak about games authoritatively.

Speaker 1 And even as somebody who has followed Hades 2 religiously, it is really hard for me to speak to the chronology of this is how it is different now from how it was at the beginning.

Speaker 1 So, like, trying to speak to people no matter where they got on or off, like trying to be something that is useful to people without knowing how much of it they played or their awareness is really tough because it's such a long

Speaker 1 story.

Speaker 2 The problem I have is I really enjoy Hades 2

Speaker 2 whenever I'm playing it, right?

Speaker 2 I enjoy Hades 1 more.

Speaker 2 I enjoy the combat more. I enjoy the story certainly more.

Speaker 2 That's a really bad, boring take that I don't want to go too much further into because it's like, man, I sure do love this nine out of ten, but it's not a 10 out of 10 that the other one was.

Speaker 2 And I feel like it's, for me, it's really hard to talk about Hades 2 without talking about Hades 1.

Speaker 2 And if I just talk about it on its own, it's just kind of repeating a lot of things that I feel like I've said about these games a million times. It's a great game, but

Speaker 2 there's weirdly little that I feel like a pressure to say about it.

Speaker 1 I will say this, and maybe we, I don't know, as somebody who has returned to it several times, and

Speaker 1 I think that it is overburdened by systems and currencies in a way that betrays how long it was in development for.

Speaker 1 I think that if you try to get on at this point, there is so much

Speaker 1 cruft in there that is like just kind of very plainly giving reasons for you to make multiple runs at it that is like, I don't feel like a lot of it feels super rewarding to me.

Speaker 1 And that is, and again, I don't know that that's that interesting because the other half of that conversation is I definitely, definitely, definitely played too much of this game before there was enough to really engage with because I was excited for it.

Speaker 1 And I don't feel like I'm a bad guy for that, but it is my experience. So

Speaker 1 I played about five hours in early access, give or take.

Speaker 1 And which is to say, not very much.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't say like a ton, enough to like know what was going on in the game and i think the game if you started at 1.0 that is the best possible experience you could have had playing the game before 1.0 and then leaving it for a year and then coming back to it is not as good of an experience because all of the mechanics and currencies that justin is talking about i do think they do a pretty good job of like easing you into that stuff such that it is cogent i also agree you're right some of it just feels like well you got to make another run to get this currency to get the thing to get the thing like that is fair right around the time that hades went to 1.0 uh deeprock galactic survivor went to 1.0 and something that was really smart that they did is i saw that it went to 1.0 and when i booted it up there was a very clear delineation between your pre-1.0 save and starting a new save they were like very much like 1.0

Speaker 1 start a new game. You're going to want to do that.
And here's why.

Speaker 1 We've like we have made it so that like you don't want to worry about any of of that other shit like we've reset all that economy stuff so it wouldn't make sense for you to like get back into that say besides you started playing this game a year and a half ago you don't remember any of this shit and it's all different anyway so you should restart it

Speaker 1 Hades did not, Hades 2 did not encourage that. And it would terrify me to do that because I don't remember how boring this stuff is.
I don't remember how much I have and have it done.

Speaker 1 I don't remember what I will and will not remember. I have no idea.
I don't know if I want to go do that again, but it really did not incentivize that. I did.

Speaker 1 Whatever. It was only five hours, but I did start totally from scratch, and I don't regret it one bit for what it's worth.
But again, you played a lot more than that. 50 hours.

Speaker 1 I mean, I think that's it. But I spent 200 in Hades 1, so I don't know.

Speaker 2 Fresh, you might

Speaker 2 with back to the original question. Yeah, please.

Speaker 2 What I would say here is when you're listening to the show, and first, this is a great question, and I appreciate how it was worded very kindly.

Speaker 2 When we don't talk about a game, it doesn't inherently mean we don't like it.

Speaker 2 At the end of the day, when we're making a show, a big part of the games we choose is: are we going to have good conversations about them?

Speaker 2 Are these going to be things that we think you're going to enjoy listening to? And sometimes there are good games that it's like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 I like, I'm going to end up telling you that Pong is great and then we're done and we need to fill the next, you know, 55 minutes. And I think that is a bit of a challenge here.

Speaker 2 And I think also we tend to favor things that are interesting and surprising and to us.

Speaker 1 To us. To to us yeah and like the the the writer of this letter mentioned kingdom come deliverance 2 which is a game that all of us tried and all of us found really

Speaker 1 not fun and that's not all of us what are you and i noticed and i noticed question writer that you referred to it as kd kcd2 so i'm assuming you've played quite a bit because i don't have an acronym for it and you do i liked it quite a bit i'll probably talk about it more at the end of the year what do you call it if you were writing me an email about it, would you call it Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 or would you type KD?

Speaker 2 Oh, I caught Cockta 2.

Speaker 1 Cock to 2. Okay.
Got it. Perfect.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying there is also this question of like, there are games that are

Speaker 1 the point with that one specifically I wanted to make is that there are games that are very big that

Speaker 1 realistically we have one episode per week.

Speaker 1 And if it takes a vast amount of time to really get the scope of a game, it could be tough to do an episode about it, to get all of us like it has to really get important to us.

Speaker 1 There is one person on this podcast that is capable of doing a it gets good after 15 hours game, and that person is Griffin.

Speaker 1 He's not here to defend himself, but he's the only person that I think will have any patience to play

Speaker 1 plus.

Speaker 1 You will take, you will, you like to get kicked around a little bit. You're not particularly genre.
Like, come on.

Speaker 1 I'll do this. If you call it Yakuza, I'll be like, yeah, yeah, no, you don't understand.

Speaker 2 After 50 hours, hours, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 Mind things clicking. If it's clicking or like numerical iteration, like

Speaker 1 we've all got our weak spots. That's for sure.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, there's a lot of layers to it. Interesting conversation, time constraint issue.
Did we get code early so we can like kind of prepare a little bit? There's just a lot of levels.

Speaker 1 Part of it is also like once we see a conversation has really taken place outside of the show and it's like, man, a lot of people are talking about this.

Speaker 1 A lot of times by the time that has trickled down to us, it's like, well, okay, fine, but like, who gives a shit what we have to say at this point? You know, like, the people listening give a shit.

Speaker 1 That hasn't no, no, no, but like, you, but the zeitgeist, I'm saying, like, we can, we can't, it's, if it doesn't line up with the zeitgeist, it's not always intentional.

Speaker 1 It's just like, you know, there's a big conversation about this happening, but like, we're not intentionally avoiding that conversation.

Speaker 2 It's also like if we're like, you know, the conversation has happened for Hades, and it's like, okay, and now we're going to come in and tell you, like, yeah, we generally like it.

Speaker 2 We don't want any yuck and yums. Like, that's not going to be a great bow to the conversation yeah

Speaker 1 uh what else we got last question this comes from leo i'm surprised that justin king of fmv has not talked about road to empress yet okay can we talk about this for a second sure can i just like i yes yes i like i really like fmv games and yes when plant pointed this out to me i did say like yes i'll go get it the thing is What you have to understand is the FMV thing is you still have to play them with your own human time and hands.

Speaker 1 And like,

Speaker 1 the people that are using FMV, a lot of them are not doing it for artistic reasons. It's because they don't want to pay for the full version of Blender.
You know what I'm saying? Like,

Speaker 1 I don't, I'm not saying that that's the deal with this one, but like, I can't keep up with every like,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 1 Eastern block

Speaker 1 developer that gets his hand on a handy cam and wants to

Speaker 1 make it.

Speaker 2 This joint does look good, though. I will.

Speaker 1 This one looks good, but it is like,

Speaker 1 it's a rough tag out there. It is a rough tag on Steam, the FNV tag.
It's a rough tag.

Speaker 2 I get it, man. When I was growing up,

Speaker 2 somebody like my

Speaker 2 aunt decided that my mom really liked pineapples. Apparently, my mom must have mentioned this offhand.
My aunt proceeded to tell all of my mom's friends, all of my other

Speaker 2 relatives, cousins, whoever. And then every holiday, anything, we would just get little pineapple trinkets until I was like 10 when she cleared the house out of this.

Speaker 2 And I swear to God, like literally a month later, my aunt was like, Kathy, you love lighthouses, don't you? Well, I've got you a new lighthouse. And I let mom know that you love it.

Speaker 1 I've got a game that's absolutely going to freak you bead. It's called Keeper.

Speaker 1 Imagine you're a lighthouse, but you're walking around.

Speaker 2 Whole house just full of lighthouse junk. And then it gets tossed out.
Anyway, I was just to say, I know what you mean. You become that person.
And then suddenly people are like, I just love you.

Speaker 1 You gotta see this.

Speaker 1 And it it is also like it is also does get a little bit old i've been doing besties for you know what is it 13 years at this point and it does get a little bit old to be like hey guys look at this fucking piece netritis i found does anybody else care no okay well that's my 30 seconds like you get the script right

Speaker 1 here wait i can do one hold on what's the name of this game Road to Empress. Guys, I want to tell you real quick about Road to Empress.
It's an FMV game that I've been checking out on Steam.

Speaker 1 And I know that a lot of times these get a rep for like not being that great, but like if you're into those, if you're into FMV games, I can see that the other two are glazing over.

Speaker 1 So let me just say that, like, if you're into those and you like that kind of thing, then this is a really good one.

Speaker 1 But like, obviously, if you don't like these kinds of games, then you're not going to like it. And you shouldn't waste your time.
But thank you. Like, check it out.

Speaker 2 Who needs AI? You can bash these things out whenever you want.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I've AI'd myself. I've made myself redundant with my head cynicism.

Speaker 2 Should we talk about what else we've been playing?

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 2 Okay, good. Because I want to tell you all about a terrible title,

Speaker 2 but an an interesting game, Onirism,

Speaker 2 which I just don't like the title. It is French.

Speaker 1 I think I'm going to guess to spell that. O-N-I-R-I-S-M.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And if you have been missing kind of a Nintendo 64 platformer

Speaker 2 or like a Ratchet and Clank or a Jet Force Gemini somewhere around that space, right? Something that we're like, oh, this is a rare game.

Speaker 2 You hop around, you shoot things, but all your characters are like super soakers or, you know, silly fun guns. You're a little girl in a fantasy dreamland.
A little bit of kind of like a little Nemo

Speaker 2 sort of aesthetic, too.

Speaker 2 It is

Speaker 2 so big and so dense. There is so much here.
They've been updating this game in early access forever. So even the game is like, I think 15 bucks.
There's like a playground mode.

Speaker 2 There's an arcade mode where you can do a whole bunch of like high score runs of just like shooting enemies.

Speaker 2 There's a humongous story mode where you are going through all these different again Nintendo 64-esque levels, but they look like they were made in a Neural Engine 4 or whatever.

Speaker 2 It is a delight and if you

Speaker 2 have a little kid that you are looking for that kind of classic easy onboarding point, it is great.

Speaker 2 But, and it's the biggest butt on the planet.

Speaker 2 Please don't cut that.

Speaker 1 I have the biggest butt on.

Speaker 2 Okay, there we go, baby.

Speaker 2 We got it.

Speaker 1 And I want to say,

Speaker 1 thank you to Dr. Gonzalez.
He put it in for me and he did such an amazing job. I wanted to have the biggest butt on the planet, and now I have it.
Thank you, Doc.

Speaker 2 Oh, my gosh, that cake.

Speaker 2 This is,

Speaker 2 Steam needs to rethink what early access is. And Alec, are there any way to monitor what a 1.0 is? This is maybe the worst 1.0 I've ever played of a video game.

Speaker 2 You open the menu and the UI is disastrous. It took me a beat to figure out how to start the game by establishing what difficulty I was playing on and which mode I was playing on.

Speaker 2 to then begin the game. You get into the game and like some of the cutscenes don't work.

Speaker 2 It's really, really, really rough, which is brutal for a game that is meant for kids because in its current state, I would be hesitant to hand it to my son because I think he would get frustrated the second something breaks.

Speaker 2 And what's so weird about it is there is all of this extra stuff

Speaker 2 and they didn't focus on the basics and again in that first like 15 minute loop and it feels

Speaker 2 I feel like we're seeing more and more of this with game development now that it's easier to make and you can buy assets and all this stuff like you get into the space of oh our hardcore fans are already past that 15 minute loop in early access and they just want more and they're giving us ideas they want new vehicles they want new weapons they want new enemies and we're just going to like churn and churn and turn and make more and more and more

Speaker 2 but not considering the fact that like hey people are going to play this at like for the first time now.

Speaker 2 And having all that stuff doesn't really matter if nobody gets past the first 30 minutes. That, again, and then here's the contradiction.
I bought it.

Speaker 2 I was excited, instantly, extremely frustrated, so ready to cancel it, played through an hour. And then I was like hooked.
I was in. I like had been onboarded.

Speaker 2 I knew what all of its like annoying quirks were. And then I was having a great fun in a Nintendo 64-style game that I have been craving.

Speaker 2 But woof, I just wish that more of these games, if they're going to say it's a 1.0 launch, actually make it feel like a legit video game.

Speaker 2 Like these menus feel worse than the games that this is taking inspiration from. And that's just like totally not acceptable.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm glad you got it the shine it deserved. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I wanted to call out a stand-up routine special that is on YouTube. It's an hour-long special by Robbie Hoffman called I'm Nervous.
It's on YouTube.

Speaker 1 She is a former Hasidic Jew who is now definitely not a Hasidic Jew and does a very, very,

Speaker 1 it was just like one of the better routines I've seen. If you watch the show Hacks, Robbie Hoffman plays with the receptionist in the most recent season of Hacks.

Speaker 1 So that's that's where she's from but uh tremendously good uh on youtube we can drop it in the newsletter if you want to watch it

Speaker 1 justin anything yeah you know i watched uh i like to watch scary movies so

Speaker 1 uh one of my favorites uh is the vhs series because i like horror anthologies because i they keep you from getting too narratively invested and you don't have to get too bummed out by them and you can just kind of enjoy the fun of it and i i feel like they're really interesting is like practices too.

Speaker 1 And I think that

Speaker 1 like experiments, I guess you could say. And VHS Halloween has a lot of them that are really fun.
It's on Shudder.

Speaker 1 And this is the eighth VHS movie. I don't actually know anything about this franchise.
Really?

Speaker 1 So it is a... It's kind of an offshoot of the found footage thing that Paranormal Activity ushered in.
But it is like, it kind of takes that concept and like

Speaker 1 meditates on it for like a series of anthology films so like each one there's usually like four to five short films um this one has uh a wide variety there's like four or five different stories some are a lot more like uh

Speaker 1 slasher kind of like uh campy horror some are downright like silly there's one called fun size about a monster that turns people into candy that's truly ghoulish is it like tales from the crypt style stuff sort of yeah and there's a there's a framing device in this one.

Speaker 1 It is the framing. There's always a framing device in the VHS movies that like tie all the stories together.

Speaker 1 In this one, it is testing a new diet soda called Diet Phantasma that has horrifying effects

Speaker 1 on everyone that tries it. But these, these are always really fun.

Speaker 1 If you like horror at all, they're always really worth watching. And this is like a really fun one.
There's several really good stories.

Speaker 1 I won't tell you many of them because if you want to watch it, you can. But

Speaker 1 it's a really good one.

Speaker 2 If you go back and watch these on shutter, because there are a bunch of them,

Speaker 2 they're a showcase for both like indie talent that doesn't make a lot of movies or makes really indie stuff and cannot usually get funding from big studios, or young talent that eventually is going to become famous after making this stuff.

Speaker 2 Like it is a way for them, I think, to try out a bunch of filmmakers with horror shorts. Alex Ross Perry, who made Listen Up Philip and Her Smell and Queen of Earth in this year's Pavements.

Speaker 1 Did he make Christopher Robin? Yeah. Really? Yeah, fun fact.
That's great. Wow.

Speaker 2 That rules.

Speaker 2 But yeah, the great stuff. Great year for Alex Ross Perry.
Two documentaries and a horror short. Damn.

Speaker 1 It's good. It's a really good VHS.
Cool. I think we did it.

Speaker 1 Griffin will probably be back next week. In the meantime, please head on over to the Patreon.
We have a new episode of Restes that is live presently.

Speaker 1 We have a new bracket battles episode that's going up on Tuesday,

Speaker 1 which is a fun one to record.

Speaker 1 I wanted to thank a few people over at the Patreon, patreon.com slash besties. We have Tanner.
We have Bader. How do you pronounce that? B-A-D-R.
Bader? Bader. Bader H.
We have Will H, and we have...

Speaker 1 God, why did I put this? Captain BJ.

Speaker 1 Captain BJ?

Speaker 1 welcome aboard. Thank you.

Speaker 1 He used to be an Admiral. That's the sad thing.
Yeah, yeah, sad. BJ Blasquitz.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 I think it's Blowjob, Chris.

Speaker 2 Oh, sorry, Blowjob Blaskowitz.

Speaker 1 Thank you for the...

Speaker 1 Jumpman is the original name of Mario, and the original name of BJ Blaskowitz is Blowjob Blasquitz. A lot of people don't know this.
Jumpman, John 314.

Speaker 1 That's Spartan right. It's John 3.14.

Speaker 1 Justin, what are we doing next week?

Speaker 1 Next week, we are going to be talking about.

Speaker 1 We got kind of a catch-up episode. We got several games to talk about.
So we will talk about a few different ones.

Speaker 1 What's the name of the seance one that you sent? That looks good.

Speaker 1 Seance at Break Manor, I think is what it's called. That's what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to go ahead and play Road to Empress because I do like FMV games. I'm going to keep that in her life.
There it is.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to make you listen to it. I love it.

Speaker 1 Kept you waiting, Empress.

Speaker 1 That's going to do it for us for this week on Besties. Be sure to join us again next time for the Besties.
Because shouldn't the world's best friends make the world's best games?

Speaker 1 Besties