The Truth About D.A.R.E. with Fumi Abe and Jon Gabrus | 57

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10-year-old Timmy has just returned to his suburban home after a long day at school.

He's ready to snack on some fruit by the foot and watch some Captain Planet before doing his homework.

But as he comes into his living room, he sees his parents.

What are they doing home from work so early?

What's with the guilty look on their faces?

And why does the room smell so funny?

Timmy's parents crack a window, fan the air, and hoping Timmy won't notice, quickly hide a small bag containing a green, herbal-looking substance behind some books on the bookshelf.

But Timmy did notice, and he knows exactly what his parents hid back there.

It's

hot.

Fortunately, today Timmy had a class in school that taught him exactly what to do in a situation like this.

He's going to call the police on his parents.

While his parents are in the other room getting out that box of fruit by the foot, Timmy picks up the phone and dials 911.

The operator connects Timmy to the cops, who will be on their way soon to bust his parents.

And it's all because of a school program that was supposed to help kids make good decisions, but wound up being largely ineffective.

And also, a huge waste of money.

Timmy couldn't be more happy to put his education into action.

As he waits on the phone for the police to arrive and bust his parents, Timmy proudly proclaims, I'm a dear kid.

Open up.

What DARE does is to combine the efforts of the law enforcement community with educators in getting law enforcement officers into the classroom.

Say yes to your life, and when it comes to drugs and alcohol, just say no.

Hey, you want to smoke?

No, thanks.

Oh, I'm going to go tell everybody that you are a chicken.

Well, that's okay, Bob, but that's something I don't want to do.

Some studies suggest DARE students reported a 3-5% higher rate of drug use than those who didn't participate.

So the problem with DARE,

putting very simply, is it doesn't work.

We

are

on a

single gay ship.

From Wondery and At Will Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time.

I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar and totally straight edge at Don't Cross a Gay Man.

And today, we're talking about DARE, the drug prevention program from the 80s and 90s that got cops into schools, but couldn't stop kids from getting into drugs.

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What if I told you that the crime of the century is happening right now?

From coast to coast, people are fleeing flames, wind, and water.

Nature is telling us, I can't take this anymore.

These are the stories we need to be telling about our changing planet.

Stories of scams, murders, and cover-ups, and the things we're doing to either protect the Earth or destroy it.

This is Lawless Planet.

Follow Lawless Planet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

On our show today, we have an actor.

Comedian and host of the High and Mighty podcast.

It's John Gabris.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, Misha.

Thank you for having me.

Oh my God, tip for tap, best.

Here we go.

You do my pod.

I'll do yours.

We're versatile.

We're verse.

Uh-huh.

Also joining us is an incredible comedian and writer.

It's none other than Fumi Abe.

Welcome to the show, Fumi.

Hello.

Thanks for having me.

Super psyched to learn about DARE.

So I guess before we get into like the story of how it started and how it flopped, did you have a DARE program in your school?

We did.

The reason it sticks with me forever is because they had like that clear briefcase full of drugs.

Oh, I don't remember that.

It was like a little case that they were like, and these are the kind of drugs you'll be offered.

And it was like...

pot, a needle, a spoon,

pills, cocaine, like all this stuff.

And as kids, I just remember being blown away by like, this guy's in class with all this shit.

Like, that's crazy.

I don't remember the suitcase.

I remember her name was Officer Sloan I'll never forget that that was her name it was just weird because we were so young I don't even I don't think anybody was really thinking about doing weed at like you know age 11 or whatever so

have you ever done pot don't worry I won't tell officer sloan

yeah dude I yeah but I did it in like it's like high school high school but you know going through dare in fifth grade feels like learning sex ed before you have pubes or something

Yeah, it's not applicable to you yet.

You're like, I don't even know what's going on.

Arguably, maybe you've even alerted me to the idea.

Probably.

I wasn't necessarily into the idea of drugs or fucking, but now between health class and dare, I'm like, let me try some fucking drugs, you know?

I would just like to say about this particular episode, I remember we had to do like acting skits and we had to write an essay on drugs and how to say no.

And I won and had to read my speech to the entire school at an assembly and I turned out to be a drug addict and alcoholic.

You're back now and DARE is finally in your bones.

Yeah, yeah.

It just, it just took a while to marinate, everybody.

Well, today on the show, we're playing a game of truth and dare,

talking about the anti-drug curriculum that exploded in in popularity and wound up in classrooms across America, but turned out to not actually do anything to keep kids off drugs.

Dare is perhaps best remembered these days for some of the ads and PSAs that were made to promote just saying no.

Now, these are extremely 80s, but let's take a look at one starring a man who I think we can all agree is synonymous with the 80s, Mr.

T.

Hell yeah.

I get angry just anybody makes me mad.

Little kids doing drugs, it turns my stomach.

That stuff hurts.

It stops you from living up to your potential.

It holds you back.

Holds you back.

Oh my God.

That guy is on drugs now.

He was so strong.

He just destroyed that glass of milk on the man.

He's on Roy's, dude.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

I mean, how effective do we think those kinds of ads are?

It makes you want to do drugs less?

I don't know.

It's crazy.

He's this giant dude with like a mohawk gold chains and kids are like, I want to listen to him.

You know, we had Mr.

Rogers and Mr.

T.

Those guys come from two very different neighborhoods.

But there was so much more than cheesy ads.

The program got its start in the Los Angeles public school system in 1983.

Now, in 1983, the United States is in a real frenzy about drug use.

It's the era of the war on drugs and the just say no campaign spearheaded by Nancy Reagan herself.

People are freaking out about drugs.

It is the 80s after all, and all are highly motivated to find ways to combat drug use and addiction.

Now, enter Daryl Gates, chief of the LAPD and pioneer of the very first SWAT team.

You know, the cops with the big guns who look like they're in the army.

Whoa.

Special weapons and tactics is what SWAT stands for.

Straight guy alert.

Straight guy alert.

So Daryl gets his star in the LAPD as the chauffeur for a previous chief of police, William Parker.

Now, this might come as a surprise to you, but William Parker was also notorious for making racist remarks about Latinos and African Americans.

A cop?

A cop in the 80s?

No way.

And Daryl must have been taking notes while he was driving William around because Daryl goes from being a driver to quickly rising through the ranks of the LAPD.

And as he moves up the chain, Daryl follows in his mentor William's footsteps in many ways, including by making remarks that are, to put it mildly, extremely offensive.

For example, in 1982, Daryl says that black people are more likely to die or be injured during police chokeholds because black people's veins and arteries are different from normal people.

Wow.

Even the use of the word normal is terrifying there, meaning that black is not normal.

Let's look at the numbers of how many people were in chokeholds by cops and their races, and let's just see.

It's amazing to be like, it's not me, it's their weird little veins.

Yeah.

Insane.

Also, Misha's saying, you used to say offensive things.

Like an example, I was like, whoa, coming out of the screen.

Like, we needed one.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Where's this going?

Where's this going?

All of our reputations are on the line here, Misha.

So, of course, this is total bullshit.

But when he's called out by community members and real doctors about how wrong and offensive he is, Daryl gives a complete non-apology apology, as they do.

Now, I hate to tell you that Daryl does eventually become the head of the LAPD.

And you may not be surprised to learn that as police chief, Daryl is best known for fostering an extremely aggressive approach to policing, particularly in minority neighborhoods in LA that many describe as racist.

Of course.

So now that we totally hate him, it should be obvious that he's the last guy you'd want developing a curriculum to be taught in schools, like down around the level of that drill sergeant from Fullmetal Jacket.

Yeah, let's get him in here.

Are you from Texas, son?

You're like,

please.

So now, how do you think the LAPD handled the issue of drugs in schools prior to the DARE program?

Ooh.

Was it religious?

I feel like they would do so, like, like kind of like gay conversion camp, but

not for weed.

I don't know.

I feel like that's not that crazy.

I don't know.

Did they have police presence in schools yes actually previously the lapd had sent undercover officers into schools to buy drugs from students and then arrest them wow what 21 jump streets

but i want to know how were they undercover were these grown-ass men undercover as 12 year olds yeah also i feel like people back then like didn't do skincare like men didn't do skincare oh yeah they did not look young men weren't even drinking water back then so like there's no

there's no way they looked young enough to pretend to be a 12 year old

so eventually daryl gets tired of busting teenage drug dealers he thinks that if kids only knew better they'd stop trying to buy drugs in the first place so he pitches an idea for a collab to the la school board Now, some members of the board are skeptical, but eventually he's able to convince them to give him a chance.

Why, you ask?

Well, in the 80s, people are so worried about drugs that if you told them you had some magic beans that kept drugs away, they probably consider giving the beans a shot.

So

with the school board on board, Daryl goes to work developing the curriculum.

He brings in Dr.

Ruth Rich, who is the LA Unified School District's health education specialist.

Rolls right off the tongue.

Hell yeah.

So at least initially, the curriculum seems like it's being developed with some input from people who should know what they're talking about.

Do you remember what DARE stands for?

Drug resistance.

Drugs and resistance education?

Drugs and alcohol resistance education?

Close.

Very close.

Drug abuse resistance education.

Oh.

Because big alcohol was like, you better not stop these kids from getting hooked on drinking.

They're not stepping on my toes.

Yeah.

Just that way way a drunk cop can stand in front of your drunk teacher and tell you how drugs are bad.

I also think it's worth noting that the inventor of Dare was named Dare Roll.

No coincidence.

I don't know.

Oh, wow.

It also ostensibly aims to teach kids to resist peer pressure, assess risk, and build self-esteem.

I remember these words.

I remember these words.

Yeah, it's flooding back to you now.

It really is.

Do you remember the phrase, peer pressure and self-esteem from when you had peers and self-esteem?

As the curriculum is being developed, Daryl insists that it's police officers and not teachers or doctors or anybody else that teaches the curriculum and the program.

And this is a crucial decision and is another indication that DARE is not setting itself up for success.

Daryl's solution to practically every problem seems to be more cops.

So in the DARE program, education will be taking a back seat to pumping up these cops.

And even this early, it seems clear that even Daryl doesn't have full confidence in his program preventing people from becoming drug users.

In a DARE parents guidebook, Daryl writes that in addition to preventative measures like DARE, the cops definitely still need tactics like using battering rams on rock houses.

What's a rock house?

I'm assuming he meant crack house.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's some out-of-date slang, but also, why did this need to be in the parents' guidebook?

There was an element of scaring parents, too, right?

Where it would be like, if your kid gets on drugs, we'll kick down your fucking door and arrest your whole family.

You know what I mean?

Like, there was so much scare tactics that went into that kind of stuff.

These cops had a gun on them in school.

Like, that's crazy.

Standing in front of fifth graders with a gun on your belt is just crazy.

I didn't realize Daryl wrote the program.

It's so weird to imagine, like, a guy who likes machine guns who also likes to write things.

Like, that's weird.

You know what I mean?

Like, I guess this is just what happens when a guy who likes to shoot bazookas gets creative is like just everything is battering rams and guns in classrooms for no reason.

I just imagine him like putting on his spa music, lighting a really nice candle, getting getting into the writing mood.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

He joins the Writers Guild.

Yeah.

The whole imagery is so weird to be like, yeah, I'm a writer.

Yeah.

He probably told people he was a writer at parties.

It's weird.

I'm an author.

I'm actually kind of jealous because I am technically a writer too, and I can't sit down and write shit these days.

My brain is fucking fried.

Maybe I should say no to pot.

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So finally, with the Cop Forward curriculum all set, Daryl launches DARE in September of 1983, just in Los Angeles.

Initially, just 10 officers are involved in the program.

Eventually, it will be thousands across the country.

Oh, it started in LA, because that makes sense, because that was the first first place to be completely drug-free is Los Angeles.

No, don't worry.

We're going to get to the nitty-gritty of DARE's curriculum later.

Spoiler alert, it's lame.

No.

But for now, teachers, parents, and cops, they are loving it.

Parents even have garage sales to raise money to support the program.

Now, one reason it becomes popular is that Daryl makes it very easy for schools to adopt the DARE curriculum.

Police forces are putting up most of the money for the program so it doesn't strain schools' budgets.

DARE is also a very visible program that is easy for people to point to.

I mean, they are very focused on branding.

They even hire a PR firm to help get the word out about DARE.

There's another major sign that DARE is more focused on image than on curriculum that works.

And here's a photo to illustrate some of that that branding.

Oh, that lion.

Oh, man.

I remember that guy.

This is a good illustration.

I liked it.

Can you describe this police vehicle for the listeners?

It's got like a sort of a graffiti-adjacent wave and like coast.

It's the Morrow Bay Police, so it's got some surf vibe to it.

And then I would say a very fuckable lion is holding a soap for it.

He's hot.

He's so hot.

He's so hot.

He's like funny hot.

Like, it's weird how hot he is for a kid's mascot where it's like, what about that broad-shouldered, square-jawed lion mane?

And he's holding a surfboard and shit.

He's got a tight black tee on.

Yeah.

Did he have a name?

This is Darren the Lion.

Daryl, the creator of Dare, came up with Darren the Lion.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

It's funny.

I remember seeing that lion and thinking, yep, I'm gay.

Dare I should turn people gay.

But Daryl isn't satisfied with just having the program in LA.

So just a few years after DARE's start, he begins to plan on how to spread it across America.

This means millions of kids are going to wind up in the DARE program, which again, we will see does not actually work.

But in 1986, Daryl starts bringing officers from around the country to LA to learn how to bring DARE into their own communities.

Also, in 1986, Congress passes the Drug-Free Schools and Communities Act, and DARE is singled out as the only program that is eligible for funding from this law, which means DARE can get federal money as they go nationwide.

Oh, mission accomplished, Darryl.

Now he's got a huge budget for the DARE program for him to tell other police officers, this is how you tell kids not to do drugs.

He's got cops flying to LA and he's going, look here, let's go out to fucking Mastros tonight.

We'll get some steaks.

We'll talk about how to make sure kids don't do drugs.

Like, you know, there was some serious money being made for the cops during DARE.

So also in 1988, another sign of just how popular it is, DARE gets its very first corporate sponsor, KFC.

Whoa.

It's very like, don't do drugs, do diabetes.

You know what I'm saying?

Very backwards.

I love it.

At this point, it is probably better to do Coke than to eat KFC.

Children listening, do not take that advice.

Now, when I think of drugs, I certainly do think of KFC, but probably not in the way Dare or KFC intended.

Oh, yeah.

Another big turning point in Dare's growth comes in 1989 when it starts its own non-profit, Dare America.

Now, pretend you don't know what this episode is about and you've just heard the name Dare America.

What do you think they do?

Oh, that's a great question.

I think they get America to like, kiss your best friend.

Come to my sleepover.

We're going to play Dare America.

Patriotic, horny game.

Yeah.

Put on this American thong.

And then.

Now, by becoming a non-profit, DARE is able to get federal funding and is able to raise money more easily.

So the stage is all set for DARE to fully explode across the country.

And as the program spreads, Darel brings even more police officers from all over to Los Angeles to get DARE training.

By 1989, almost 400 police departments across 33 states have received DARE training from the LAPD.

Now, the training is an 80-hour course, which is a lot less than the huge amount of hours real teachers have to spend in order to get into classrooms.

But officers are selected for DARE training based on their, quote, ability to organize, their promptness, and their ability to refrain from making sexual, racial, stereotypical, or inappropriate and insensitive remarks.

Y'all, the bar is not just low.

We're in hell.

Yeah.

Guys, we still haven't found a cop that fits our stupid criteria.

Yeah.

Hey, raise your hand if you've never said a slur.

Does by accident count?

Yeah, Rick.

Sorry.

By accident count.

Now, by the way, I would like to remind everybody that by these standards, Daryl Gates himself, given his history of offensive comments, would not be allowed to become a DARE officer.

So he probably didn't put that role in.

I'm guessing somebody else.

Legal.

It's insane because the audience is literally 11 to 12-year-olds, and it's so weird that you have to tell an adult not to be like sexual around them.

Yeah, yeah,

it's real weird.

Because they're fucking 11.

Can you just not be like racist or sexual for an hour?

Well, eventually, Daryl's creation spreads to three-quarters of all school districts in the United States.

Over 5.5 million kids are exposed to the program, and over 11,000 police officers are involved.

And each year, between $600 million and $750 million of your parents' tax dollars are being spent on DARE.

Yikes.

To put this into perspective, just a few years earlier, the total amount the federal government was spending on HIV and AIDS was under $500 million.

Whoa, of course.

Of course.

And as DARE is going nationwide, Daryl's profile is getting bigger and bigger as well.

He's invited to a ceremony at the White House where he makes Nancy and Ronald Reagan honorary DARE graduates.

Well, honored to be here, Daryl.

I mean, that is fair because we know that a U.S.

president would never do drugs.

Now, Daryl even gets to write an autobiography that, of course, is designed to pump up his image and his approach to crime and drugs.

It's called Chief, My Life in the LAPD.

Oh, boy.

Now.

We haven't talked about what you actually learn in the DARE program yet.

So to learn about what the kids are learning in DARE, let's play a game.

So, in this game, I'm going to ask you some questions about the DARE curriculum.

Oh, hell yeah.

Time to bomb.

Time the bomb.

Here's the first one.

Dare suggests some alternatives to doing drugs, including one that would be familiar to anyone who practices mindfulness today.

What is it?

Meditate.

Sports?

Deep breathing.

Hey, sorry.

No thanks.

I don't want any crack cocaine.

I'm good over here.

All right.

Second question.

Dare officers teach students how they can keep themselves safe at parks, shows, and what other location?

School?

A very classic 80s and 90s hangout spot.

Oh, the arcade.

The diner?

Those are so good.

The mall.

The mall.

Okay.

Well, the mall.

The mall has all of the above.

Okay, that makes sense.

It does have everything in it.

Yes.

I went to the mall a lot growing up as a Long Island kid, and I literally never saw drugs there.

I was there a lot without my parents just loitering and shoplifting from Tower Records.

No one does drugs at the mall because it's not cool to like snort cocaine next to like a wet seal.

It's not hard, bro.

It's not hard.

Final question.

Which of the following was not a dare activity?

Was it A, making a collage out of advertisements?

B, designing your own license plate?

Or C, choreographing an interpretive dance about saying no to drugs?

Christ.

To be, for the record, Fumi and I haven't gotten one right yet.

I can't imagine interpretive dance was one.

Because that doesn't go with Daryl's gun vibes.

Yeah, I can't imagine the SWAT team working on their interpretive dance.

Choreographing an interpretive dance about saying no to drugs was not a real dare activity.

The others were.

And I don't remember the license plate one, but weirdly, designing your own license plate was a part of the lesson on building self-esteem.

That's so awesome.

Again, we can't drive because we're 12.

Like, what, who is the, is it for our parents or something?

Like,

How hard is it to kill a planet?

Maybe all it takes is a little drilling, some mining, and a whole lot of carbon pumped into the atmosphere.

When you see what's left, it starts to look like a crime scene.

Are we really safe?

Is our water safe?

You destroyed our town.

And crimes like that, they don't just happen.

We call things accidents.

There is no accident.

This was 100%

preventable.

They're the result of choices by people.

Ruthless oil tycoons, corrupt politicians, even organized crime.

These are the stories we need to be telling about our changing planet.

Stories of scams, murders, and cover-ups that are about us and the things we're doing to either protect the Earth or destroy it.

Follow Lawless Planet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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So you can imagine researchers will later point out that the DARE curriculum, not exactly rocket science.

One Dare lesson teaches kids eight ways to say no, and all of these eight ways are extremely obvious.

One option they mention is to just walk away.

Another method is to just ignore the person and don't reply at all.

But I mean, surely you can say no to drugs without being impolite.

Come on.

Another of the ways to say no to drugs is to change the subject.

The example of this they give is if someone says to you, let's smoke some marijuana, you might answer, no, let's watch my new video instead.

New?

What the hell?

What video?

Well, another thing researchers will eventually criticize DARE for is the way it puts all drugs on the same level.

Yes.

For example, like implying that alcohol and pot and cocaine are equally serious.

Like, that's right, kids.

You go to one wine tasting and the next thing you know, you're smoking crack with a somalier.

The program also has a weird bias against tattoos.

According to one DARE workbook, you can tell when there's a bunch of people at a party that are up to no good because they have

tattoos.

My goodness.

I know teachers and principals that have tattoos, and that would be a very funny moment to be saying that in front of an entire assembly of like, remember, tattoos are bad.

And it's like the vice principal with full sleeves is right behind you.

So as we mentioned, Dare is huge on merchandising.

There are stuffed animals of Dare and the Lion.

There are Dare watches, Dare Frisbees.

And of course, we can't forget about the bumper stickers and those iconic t-shirts with the Dare logo.

Now, unfortunately, we don't have numbers on exactly how much merch they made, but how ubiquitous were those shirts back in the day?

Oh, I have one with the sleeves cut off that I wear to the gym now.

Yeah, I still have it.

It's very frail.

If you were in charge of coming up with new Dare merchandise, what would you do besides the shirts?

My mind went to vape immediately, but that's not

because people love vaping.

People love vaping.

Some merch sales?

This is a CBD vape, okay, kids?

You're allowed to rip this in class.

They basically put the Dare logo on everything except bongs back then.

Although, now you're saying a really fun business model idea.

I'm sure there are some enterprising potheads out there that have figured out how to make a bong out of Dare and the Lion-Stuffed Animal.

Yeah.

Let's go.

Now, they also distribute pencils that say too cool to do drugs on the side.

And this leads to a huge Dare merchandising fail.

let's take a look at these pencils can you see what the problem might be oh my god i remember this oh my god

i do remember that if you were to sharpen it enough it will just say cool to do drugs then to do drugs then do drugs then drugs goods

You know what?

I actually have memories flooding back that we got those pencils and we purposely sharpened them down to just do drugs.

Yeah, it makes total fucking sense.

Because kids are assholes.

That's the first thing we're going to think about.

If you can make anything horny or like reverse offensive back at the grown-ups, when you're a kid, that's the only power you have.

Well, by the early 90s, criticism of the program is starting to build, including from parents and researchers.

It also doesn't help the program's image that in 1991, Darrell testifies in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee and says that people who use drugs, even casually, should be taken out and shot.

Okay.

You meant like everyone who does drugs, not just kids?

Oh, yeah.

Anybody who ever just does drugs should be shot.

Wow.

Well, another core part of the DARE curriculum is the three Rs.

Recognize, resist, and report.

And the report part attracts criticism from people who say that it's basically turning kids into police informants.

Whoa, there you go.

The mission accomplished from the police.

They definitely fucking want that.

Yeah.

I mean, some parents are so worried about this, they even start a group called Parents Against Dare.

Yeah, Gary Peterson, the founder of the group, calls Dare the stuff of Orwellian fiction.

This is Big Brother putting spies in our homes.

Wow.

I'm with them.

Snitches get stitches.

Now, these kids, they actually are becoming narcs.

It did happen.

One girl calls the cops on her parents for having pot plants in their house, sending her parents to jail for 30 days.

Whoa.

Another kid, a 10-year-old, calls 911 to turn in his parents for having a few ounces of pot.

On the call, the 10-year-old declares, I'm a dare kid.

Oh my God.

Oof.

Yeah.

So, what do you think, based off that information a dare box is?

Oh, anonymous tips.

Uh-huh.

Oh my God.

It is a shoebox that kids can put notes into anonymously.

Another potential way to make it easy for kids to rat out friends and family members.

So criticism of Daryl and the program is building, and not just because of the whole kid sending their parents to prison thing.

The curriculum, which we've firmly established is quite lame, is also under fire from researchers who are studying its effectiveness.

In the program's defense, Glenn Levant, the president of Dare America and Resident Dare Attack Dog, says that criticizing the program is like kicking Santa Claus.

I saw mommy kicking Santa Claus.

So, I mean, but even with an over-the-top rhetorical deflection, Dare and Dare Roll can't can't evade criticism from researchers and concerned parents forever.

And soon, those critics are going to be all over DARE like a stone guy going after the last pop-tar.

So, one pretty big issue that researchers have with DARE is that after multiple studies, they find that the program simply does not work.

In 1991, the University of Illinois at Chicago releases a study that says, quote, the effectiveness of DARE in altering students' drug use behavior has yet to be established.

Another study from 1994 agrees, saying that DARE could be taking the place of other more beneficial drug use curricula that adolescents could be received.

Yet another study compares kids whose schools had DARE programs and kids whose schools did not and finds that there is, quote, no significant differences in illicit drug use between the two groups

wait an egregious misuse of taxpayers money on behalf of the police i don't believe it

what might be some better classes for kids to take in school other than dare

how to do your taxes there you go

how credit cards work how to set up a checking account how to avoid high interest loans right yes

you sound very personal gabriel

And let's not forget, hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent on this program and on drug prevention in general.

The U.S.

spends $500 million on drug education for kids between 1992 and 1995.

During that time, marijuana use by teens goes up by 141%.

But there's even more research that suggests that DARE makes certain kids want to try drugs.

You might think of it as the, you can't tell me what to do, dad, effect.

Right.

Like one former DARE kid who went on to do drugs said that when the DARE officer told him how addictive certain drugs were, quote, you know what that made me want to do?

Smoke crack, snort cocaine, and do a dose of heroin just to see if I could beat the statistics.

Wow.

I like that attitude, but there's also an element to it of being like, well, then why is it so addictive?

Oh, because it makes me feel amazing.

Okay.

Well, I'm sold.

Let's go.

I mean, they should have tried like a reverse psychology version of Dare, like having a middle-aged cop come into your school and tell you how much they love smoking weed while listening to Pink Floyd.

That would turn.

Yeah, I'd be like, you know, your teacher here smokes pots.

Like, ew, fuck you.

I don't want to be like them.

Or I'll go one step further, Misha.

The cops should come and give every kid in the class one joint and you got to smoke it.

And then you got to watch like Requiem for a Dream or something.

The big problem is that, and this is a serious point, but I think like as Dare continued, their curriculum stayed the same, but at the same time, like weed kept getting better.

Like the weed technology.

Oh, yeah.

It's like, don't smoke acapoco gold.

Are you kidding?

I have like weed Skittles in my bag.

Yeah, exactly.

I'm like, the technology is outpacing what the cops can even like wrap their heads around.

Well, in 1992, following the LA riots, Darrell Gates steps down as LA's chief of police.

And by the program's 10-year anniversary, its association with him has started to become a liability.

Eventually, even the Surgeon General of the United States comes out against Dare.

He categorizes Dare as an ineffective primary prevention program.

That's Surgeon General speak for this doesn't do different squad.

At this point, the writing is on the wall for dare but it still takes a number of years for the program to finally wrap up but their commitment to the merch game remains as strong as ever you can even buy a full-sized darren the lion costume we absolutely have to take a look at this don't tell me about this i'm gonna go full furry oh

that's not as hot though no

that's okay this is a little more this is like skate i was a skater darren i said see you later darren this lion does drugs this outfit is drop this is it's giving drugs yeah

it does look like he's trying to sell you drugs well this darren the lion costume also will set you back three thousand eight hundred and fifty dollars all right let's do it let's get to let's get to you let's get the guy pool our money american taxpayers will cover us don't worry i don't know anything about this daryl guy or darren guy but i'm really hoping at the end we end the story with and that's how he stormed the capital

That's how I feel like that's where he's going.

Well, despite its proven ineffectiveness, the program shockingly sticks around until 2009 when it is finally phased out.

Wow.

Maybe it helped to have a life-size Darren cheering Darren that whole time.

Who knows?

But after hundreds of millions of dollars, countless hours of class time, millions of kids enrolled, and an untold number of people with tattoos insulted, Dare is finished.

Maybe Daryl should have spent more time making sure the curriculum worked and less time on the marketing.

I don't know, but

some estimate that between the start of the war on drugs in 1971 and 2023, the U.S.

spent over a trillion dollars to combat drug use.

And as we all know, people have not stopped doing drugs.

No, not at all.

And more and more states have started to loosen up their drug laws.

It's clear that people's attitudes towards drugs like pot are now less just say no, and it's more like it's okay to say yes every once in a while.

Yeah.

Sorry, Daryl.

What would you write on Dare's tombstone?

RIP, enjoy the acapoco gold up there in the heavens.

So let's do a little, where are they now?

A new version of Dare was introduced in 2009.

It's called Keeping It Real.

Real stands for refuse, explain, avoid, and leave, which makes it sound like the same old DARE program with just an even more cringy name.

However, some initial research indicates that this new curriculum may be more effective, though it has also been criticized for a lack of focus on harm reduction.

Did he make a lot of money during this?

I'm sure he did.

I hate the fact that, like, he definitely used this to get laid, you know, like at bars and stuff.

He definitely told women that he founded Dare for sure.

And he's an author.

He's an author.

Well, ladies, if you ever run into Daryl at the bar, just remember.

Just say no.

Well, here on the big flop, we do try to be positive people and kind of end on a

hi.

So are there any silver linings that you can think of that came from dare

i guess naming what peer pressure is and and being able to recognize that is probably you know because previously to the phrase peer pressure all we had was well if your friends all jumped off to brooklyn bridge would you do that too you know like that your mom would say or some shit so i think peer pressure and learning what that is and the power it has over young uh adults is the uh is the big takeaway for yours truly.

Yeah, I mean, Officer Salone was pretty cool, you know?

Yeah, shout out.

She played kickball with us and stuff, so that was pretty nice.

But I guess like learning new vocabulary, you know, these drug names, that was like, I feel like I got more like PG-13 joke references and stuff, you know, so that was, that was cool.

It helped me watch Pineapple Express, but, you know,

I feel like we can always learn something from flops and failures.

So hopefully some program, you know, learns from their mistakes.

Also, John, you got a real sick gym shirt.

Yep,

I get all the looks when I rock my sleeveless DARE tank at the gym.

So, now that you both know about DARE, the multi-million dollar drug prevention program that may not have actually stopped anyone from doing drugs, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop?

Ooh, I'm gonna go with either between a big and a mega.

Maybe.

Let's go fuck it.

Let's go.

Mega flop.

Didn't help a single person.

Even if it did, the cost of it and the time wasted in school learning that was, you know, it was an egregious misuse of a lot of people's funds and a lot of people's times.

I'm sure every teacher was like, I wish I had an extra hour to help you fucking kids learn math.

Yeah, I would say, I mean, I I don't even know.

I, you know, whenever I take these surveys, I if it's like one to ten, I can never circle ten for whatever reason.

So I'm gonna go with big flop.

But it's really just the amount of money is just so sad.

We could have really used that to like give people insurance or little to anything else.

Get me Lakers tickets, anything, you know?

Well, thank you so much to our very green guests, John Gambris and Fumi Abe, for joining us here on the Big Flop.

And thanks to all of you for listening.

If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review.

Next week, we'll be back with another flop you'll have to buckle up for.

It's Elon Musk's failed high-speed transportation system, Hyperloop.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

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The Big Flop is a production of Wondery and At-Will Media, hosted by Misha Brown, produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Tina Turner.

Written by Anna Rubinova and Luke Burns.

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We are

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