Magic Johnson's Late Night Nightmare with W. Kamau Bell and Reggie Watts | 28

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It's July 2nd, 1998, and basketball legend and philanthropist Magic Johnson is flustered.

He's backstage at his very own late-night talk show, The Magic Hour, which has been on the air for less than a month and pretty much universally panned.

The ratings are awful.

He's not getting better at hosting.

He's on his second sidekick.

And worse, he's got an enemy.

That's right.

Magic, the most likable person in America, is being trolled by the self-proclaimed king of all media, shock jock, Howard Stern.

Through unceasing public criticism over Magic's hosting abilities, Stern has wormed himself onto Magic's Show for a face-to-face confrontation.

And Magic can't say no.

His producers want the drama to boost viewership.

Everyone, even TV critics, warn this will be a disaster.

Stern and his entourage will not only be there as interview guests, they'll perform a song too.

Stern's band, The Losers, will feature live flatulists, aka musical farters.

Magic takes a few big breaths before showtime, far away from Stern's farting friends and begins one of the most stressful hours of his life.

Stern's band does the farting, but Magic ends up stinking up the joint.

Y'all know my next guest, one of the greatest basketball players of all time, now getting ready to join the talk show arena.

Please welcome welcome my good friend Urban Patrick Johnson.

The Magic Hour debuted to mixed reviews from the critics, but late-night TV is a tough field to play on, as the show Vibe, hosted by Sinbad, just found out.

There was a collective gasp you could have heard here

in New York from Paramount Studios.

It was literally like this.

It wasn't a boo, it was a

like that.

It was silent.

I tried it.

I was, I failed.

Right.

It was terrible.

We are

on

a sinking gameship.

From Wondery and At Will Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time.

I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar and expert flatulist at Don't Cross a Gay Man.

And today, we're talking about The Magic Hour, Magic Johnson's late-night talk show that was supposed to be a slam dunk, but ended up a total brick.

On our show today, we have stand-up comedian, author, and most recently, the director and producer of the documentary 1000% me, growing up mixed.

It's W.

Kamal Bell.

Welcome to the show.

Thanks.

Me and Reggie were trying to figure out who was the stand-up comedian and author because up until that point, it could have been either one of us.

And then it took a hard left at director of 1000% me.

I know when I heard director, I was like, yeah.

Well, we also have a musician and comedian.

He was the band leader and announcer for The Late, Late Show with James Corden for eight years.

And he's recently published his memoir, Great Falls, Montana: Fast Fast Times, Post-Punk Weirdos, and a Tale of Coming Home Again.

It's Reggie Watts.

Welcome.

So, before we get into the story, what do y'all remember about Magic Johnson from

your childhood?

The question sounded like he'd passed away.

What do you remember about Magic Johnson?

I bet it remembered, man.

That guy was too tall.

Yeah.

I mean, he was Magic Johnson, that's for sure.

That, like, no one is ever going to be able to take that away from him.

I don't remember much other than like he was a badass basketball player.

And then later, he was a good business dude and did cool stuff for his community.

Yeah.

So the Lakers were my dad's favorite basketball team.

So I feel like,

you know, Magic Johnson was the most famous basketball player before Michael Jordan was around.

So I certainly feel like I've been witness to the grand swath of his career.

Well, today we're going to discuss the cursed late night talk show, The Magic Hour, hosted by basketball legend Magic Johnson.

Johnson is best known for his stint with the LA Lakers during their Showtime era of the 1980s.

With his slick, smooth, flashy style of play, he reinvents the game and reinvigorates the NBA.

From 1979 to 1991, the Lakers were unstoppable.

By 1997, Magic Johnson had won five NBA championships with the Lakers, was named the NBA Finals MVP three times, and won an Olympic gold medal.

Sheesh.

Right on the court, he's regarded as the best point guard of all time.

Off the court, Magic has focused on HIV activism and has been public about his status ever since he tested positive in 1991.

As mentioned, he's also invested in business ventures such as Magic Johnson movie theaters and co-branded Starbucks stores.

Just two points of order.

Yes.

Since I'm going to be the resident Magic Johnson expert.

Love it.

They were unstoppable until my team, the Chicago Bulls, stopped them in 1991.

That was actually what happened.

And there's only, I'm only going to document one point for.

being involved with Starbucks because as we all know, they don't serve coffee.

Yeah.

It was early days.

I mean, it was, it was, it was.

It wasn't, was it?

Okay, I'll give him a pass.

It was early days.

It was not.

It It was, I don't know if he's still involved in Starbucks, but it was definitely like what he was basically introduced to Starbucks to the black community.

Like, okay, it's like, look, Starbucks.

They're like,

okay.

So are we ready to hear how Magic Johnson ended up as a late night talk show host?

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now I am.

Now I am.

Well, there are some important TV upheavals to review.

The 1990s late night landscape was going through some big changes.

In 1992, the king of late night, Johnny Carson, retires and suddenly there is a battle for eyeballs.

NBC hands The Tonight Show to frequent guest host Jay Leno, snubbing David Letterman.

Letterman moves to the 11.30 p.m.

slot on CBS.

Now, NBC and CBS are duking it out.

Meanwhile, Fox, too, has been struggling to build a late night identity.

In 1986, they launched their own late show hosted by Joan Rivers.

It only runs for two years.

And then there was also Chevy Chase.

Everybody got a talk show in that era.

Everybody had a pre-fronted talk show.

Oh, yeah, that's true.

Mitch Hedberg.

Just kidding.

This is like, what?

Well, Fox also attempts to develop New York shock jock Howard Stern's radio program into a TV talk show.

They shoot five hour-long episodes to test Stern out.

Confident that he was about to become a national TV host, Stern announces his upcoming deal with Fox on his radio show.

But after focus groups are shown the episodes, Fox gets cold feet and the show is quietly shelved.

Why the show is yanked is a bit of a mystery, but it seems like Stern develops a bit of a grudge against Fox.

Do you think that Stern would have been a good TV host?

He's great at talk, you know, like question, you know, his format, he's really good at that.

Like he's so comfortable.

But I think TV is different.

I think when you're wide open, I'm addressing a live audience, I'm being cordial or whatever, combative, whatever he would be with guests, you know, all that's, I think that changes a lot.

Yeah, I don't, I think if he had, if he was supposed to be a late night talk show host, he would have been a late night talk show host.

I think Howard Stern was only going to be Howard Stern.

I think that the media has been to him, as much as he famously hates podcasting, he basically invented comedians talking nonsense into microphones for hours at a time.

He could sleep.

So, I think that's exactly the right thing.

And also, even the fact that it is filmed and broadcast, you see the video from his show, he's not playing for the audience, he's playing for his guests.

So, I don't think he had that, like, welcome to the show, everybody.

It's the Howard Stern show.

Here's my five-minute monologue about the news, and him talking to a star he didn't care about was not going to go well.

So, I don't think that would have been.

He's like one of the biggest niche projects ever.

Well, the network had found success with Arsenio Hall.

Yes.

Legally, we have to do that.

You know, we did color black people.

We have to say roof, roof, roof.

Part of the union.

You know, he did make television history in 1989 by becoming the first ever black late night talk show host.

But the show ends its 1,300 episode run in 1993, right in the middle of this skirmish for late night attention.

Fox asks Dolly Parton to to host a show to fill the time slot.

Wow.

That's a twist and turn.

Arsenio to Dolly.

Parton, she passes, but her manager suggests, as you brought up, come out, Chevy Chase.

Yes, that's right.

Everyone's least favorite comedian, Chevy Chase.

So Fox is all in on Chase.

They spent a million dollars renovating an old theater in LA to shoot the show in and then cancel it after 29 episodes.

That's longer than I remember.

Yeah.

What happened?

I'm reading from the Wikipedia article, Reggie.

It says Chevy was awful.

Period.

That makes sense.

I think that's good enough.

And I believe it.

Yeah.

Well, in this sea of late-night talk show hosts, there is another host Fox strongly considers: Magic Johnson.

Because unlike most basketball stars, he has some experience interviewing celebs.

In 1994, he hosted a television special called One-on-One with Magic Johnson.

His guests include Roseanne and Tom Arnold and Garth Brooks.

If anybody's interested, we have a Garth Brooks episode in our archives.

Take a listen to find out his bizarre alter ego, Chris Gaines.

By 1997, Arsenio's absence is really felt, and the lack of black representation in late night is apparent to both viewers and networks.

Fox thinks Magic is the right choice for their next big host, but there's one huge concern.

Magic isn't a comedy guy and lacks the bite and energy that many late night comedians have.

So he needs someone to balance him out.

They bring on Sheila E as his band leader, a prince protege with lots of energy.

Oh my god.

That's right.

I forgot about that.

She actually becomes the first female band leader in late night history, but Magic will need that dynamic sidekick.

Now, Reggie, what do you you think makes for a good late night sidekick?

You know, it's mostly just like being down to just be chilling out and, you know, just ready to react to something.

Sure.

There were so many times when I would be up there, not even paying attention to the show for a moment.

Like,

I'd be talking with the band or we'd be like doing some stupid joke, you know, like on our comms or whatever.

And then suddenly I'd hear like, and I know that sometimes James would do it on purpose because I think like he felt like I wasn't paying attention.

And he'd be like, Reggie, what do you think about that?

But always,

instantaneously, I was like, I wouldn't bother doing that.

I mean, it's what, you know, whatever.

Like, I always answer.

I would always give a hard take.

Yeah.

Just go for it.

Just go right in there.

I mean, famously, Branford Marsalis did not like the fact it was such an easy gig when he was Jay Leno's sidekick on the tonight show.

And Sheila, for example, is like an incredibly accomplished musician.

Totally.

And an incredible, and nobody realized how great a drummer she is.

Not nobody, but many people don't realize how great a drummer and percussionist she is.

And she comes from

like musical royalty with her dad, Pete Escovito.

And so it's like to sort of distill that down to like late night talk show sidekick.

It's, I'm sure it was a lot for her, too.

Sure.

Yeah.

Cause the money looks good.

You're like, oh, that makes sense.

Yeah.

Money, no travel, benefits.

All I have to do is just drive there and do it, and then I'm gone.

And then it's the money.

Cool.

That sounds great.

And then after a while, you're like,

I don't know.

So producers go casting for a capable comedian.

They run casting sessions instructing comedians that they want someone who can be Magic's, quote, crazy uncle, someone who can crack dirty jokes for Magic to react to.

Please say it was John Witherspoon.

Please say it was John Witherspoon.

Magic, meanwhile, will get to play innocent and keep his reputation squeaky clean.

The sidekick will also be doing the monologue, usually the role of the host.

What?

Okay.

Sorry.

Yeah.

Fox lands on stand-up comedian Craig Shoemaker.

Oh, yeah.

He was a huge like club comedian in the, I don't want to say maybe still huge, but in the 80s and 90s, he was like always on TV.

He was like one of those like first wave, second wave of TV comedians.

Oh, that guy.

I think his bit was like the love doctor.

So he had some sort of recurring thing.

He's a very plain looking white guy, but he was like, he had a, he did a crazy deep voice.

And yeah, that's crazy.

Yeah.

Shoemaker had just won the 1997 Funniest Male Stand-Up at the American Comedy Awards, and he was famous for his Love Master stand-up routine.

So,

let's take a listen to what we're getting into here.

Yes, please.

I'm the Love Master, baby.

Don't you laugh at the Love Master.

I could poke your eye out from right here, baby.

I'm the Love Master, Master, Love.

I'm looking at you, you're making me hard as Chinese algebra.

Come on, baby.

What?

Recipe for late-night gold?

Reggie's face is great.

Reggie's face.

What the fuck?

The fuck was that?

I haven't spent a lot of time with you, but I've never seen you speechless or

wow.

I've never seen you like lock like a computer, like your screen locked like a computer.

I don't know what that was.

That was tough.

That was his big, big.

If he was coming to the club, it would say Craig Shoemaker, the Love Master.

That was his big, like,

that was probably his closer.

he probably had t-shirts and swag and bumper stickers that was that was a a huge bit back in the day for him that's tough i don't know how they thought that that way that made any sense at all but sure

okay the fact that it's not even a black comedian at least keeping it like i know that's the thing i was like interesting okay but he does what he does a black voice a very authentic it's very authentic though i mean if i close my eyes i'd be like holy shit

I mean, I sort of been wondering if a young Reggie Watts somehow watched that and was like, voices, that's what I'll do.

Yeah, it's like, oh, you know what?

That guy's doing weird voice shit.

I think maybe I'll do some weird voice shit.

Why not?

Well, in 1997, Fox announces Magic's new show will be called The Magic Hour.

Clever.

And is marketed mostly on the host's undeniable charisma.

Ads feature Magic's million-dollar smile with the tagline, The Grin That Stole Late Night.

The Magic Hour premieres in June of 1998 with star-studded flare.

Appearing is the yet-to-be-canceled Mel Gibson, the soon-to-be cyber legend Lawrence Fishburne, the already legendary Cher, and a musical performance by Babyface.

That's 97.

That is star-studded.

Yeah.

Although I will say that, like, the grin that stole late night is one of those things you call in the business, like, joking the joke.

That's too many.

You've done the thing.

You've put too many jokes off the tree.

Yeah.

Also, too soon.

Oh, yeah.

Just like we won late nights.

Like, you haven't even...

The first episode hasn't even happened.

He already stole it.

He already stole it.

We probably will.

Well, that first episode gets good ratings, but almost immediately the show begins to fall apart.

And an old enemy of Fox is about to exact his revenge.

Oh,

no, babe.

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Despite the initial hype, critics and audiences pass on the Magic Hour.

Magic's ratings quickly drop to about a third of Leno's.

Critics say Magic is visibly uncomfortable on air and he doesn't have the skills to be a great interviewer.

I bet you want to ask me how bad could it have been, Misha?

Seriously, how bad?

Well, let's watch a clip of an unscripted moment where Magic notices a bunch of twins in the audience and decides to talk to them.

Appreciate that.

Now, this must be a double mint commercial or something.

All these twins I got in the front row, man,

look.

You in commercials?

I knew that.

MSU, also.

Yeah, look at all these twins.

Just for me, huh?

Just for you.

Man.

We want you to come to San Diego.

Come to San Diego.

You a judge.

Oh, it's a Twins commercial?

I mean,

Twins Convention in San Diego.

I'd like you to come down to San Diego.

He's just announcing everything.

I live in Albuquerque.

I'd like to see you there.

I mean, that went on for a whole nother minute.

What?

Wow.

Okay, in defense of public failure.

Let me, I feel like I have to say something.

To me, I look at that.

First of all, I can say this.

I've had moments like that on stage where you're like, it's just not hitting right now.

It's just not like I'm looking at twins and all I can think is, man, twin.

Yeah, boy.

I've had that moment.

And I've also hosted a talk show.

I can see a guy on stage who has just been told by a producer eight things he needs to remember.

And also, the last thing they tell you, have fun.

I mean, it must have been like a producer going, like, well, we'll just put these twins out there and that'll do something interesting.

We'll give him something to work with.

So they say the magic hour is lacking charm, and the show is plagued with co-hosting issues.

Sheila E brings much needed energy to the show, but Magic can't match it.

And it's quickly apparent that there is little to no chemistry between Magic and his sidekick, Craig Shoemaker.

Shoemaker's been very vocal about the show's flaws.

Shoemaker told the New York Observer he wasn't allowed to write his own material, that he was there to be embarrassed while Magic came off as the nice guy.

He'd be forced to tell a bad joke, and Magic would deflect by saying things like, Craig, you're bad.

That's on you.

I didn't say that.

So here's a clip of Shoemaker on the Jim Norton and Sam Roberts podcast recounting a particularly uncomfortable joke he had to perform.

Oh my God.

I get out to the couch, and this is the opening line.

He says, Mostly urban crowd.

I'm white.

And my setup is, and Slingblade wrote this joke for me to say, Hey, Craig, how about that bulls game?

Magic?

I haven't seen a beating like that caught on tape since Rodney King.

Okay, you see your reaction?

Wow, I know you're 97.

Like, it's a sensitive.

I am telling you, I thought they were going to,

there was a collective gasp you could have heard here

in New York from Paramount Studios.

It was literally.

Oh my god,

that is insanity.

What?

How?

This is what I'm telling you.

I believe every bit of it.

If the host is not like considered to be the leader of the show, a la David Letterman or Jay Leno, then you're following an unseen producer who's just making it up as they go along.

Craig Shoemaker is not also a creative leader on the show.

So it is just there are producers who are doing that to those people.

I don't want to put, I just want to make sure that ain't magic.

That is the fact that he's not Letterman.

That's not happening on Letterman's show.

Well, Shoemaker is unhappy, and the whole sidekick thing is about to go sideways.

And to find out how, let's play a game.

So this game is called Sidekicked.

We have a few questions related to Fox's struggle to find a suitable sidekick for Magic Johnson.

Here are the rules.

It's a multiple choice quiz.

You can each guess which choice is correct.

Ready?

Shit.

So once producers realize Magic and Craig are a terrible pairing, when do they kick Shoemaker off of the couch?

A, after a three-hour closed-door meeting where Craig begs to be let out of his contract?

B, the day after Howard Stern ironically criticizes one of Shoemaker's offensive jokes, or C, in the middle of an episode during a commercial break.

I would love it to be C, because that would be amazing.

I think it's Stern.

I think hearing Stern talk about the show is what makes them go, if Howard Stern gets mad at us, he's going to destroy us.

So, yeah, Stern was the king of all media at that point, or still in his king of all media phase.

So, I'm going to go with Stern.

Okay.

Yeah, definitely Stern because also you said something about someone with a grudge coming back.

You foreshadowed.

Actually, this was C.

In the middle of an episode.

What?

During a commercial break.

That's so cool.

That's the best.

Shoemaker is removed from the couch couch on the third episode, right before an interview with Arsenio Hall.

Shoemaker recalls a showrunner removing him from the couch and being told, quote, the people upstairs decided you're not going to be on the couch now.

And when Arsenio comes out, he even asks Magic, where's Craig?

He's funny.

Yeah, because I'm sure Arsenio knows Craig because they were both stand-up comedians back in the day.

So I'm sure he was probably looking forward to having somebody funny to talk to.

Yeah, saying, hey, what's up, man?

Next question.

Shoemaker's role is diminished to pre-taped bits where he publicly begs to get out of his 13-week contract.

Producers try out two more sidekicks before the show is ultimately canceled.

First, they try stand-up comedian and actor Steve White, but he is replaced by which cast member of In Living Color?

Is it A, Tommy Davidson, B, David Allen Greer, or C, Damon Wayans?

A.

Yeah, it's Tommy Davidson.

Yes, ding, ding, ding, Tommy Davidson.

All right, bonus question.

This one is not multiple choice.

Not one, but two current late night talk show hosts were offered the job of Magic Sidekick very, very early in their own careers.

Who are they?

Jimmy Kimmel

and

the other Jimmy?

It's only one of the Jimmies.

You think it's Jimmy Fallon?

Yeah.

That feels right.

Jimmy Kimmel was on LA radio at the time.

Jimmy Kimmel was right.

All right.

Any guesses for the second one?

Who's a current host?

Yes.

So who's the other?

Who are the other late night talk show hosts?

Seth Meyer.

Conan, are we Conan?

It wasn't Conan.

No, I don't think it would have been Conan.

You've guessed almost all of them, but it was Stephen Colbert.

Wow.

Oh, Colbert.

Colbert.

Yeah, I didn't get it because when you didn't say it, you weren't pronouncing it right.

Yeah.

Well, during an episode of the Strike Force 5 podcast from 2023, Kimmel and Colbert revealed that they were both offered the gig, but turned it down because they didn't think the goofy uncle character would work.

That was a good call by Kimmel and Colbert, and Shoemaker deeply regrets taking that job.

So, Magic gets a slew of bad reviews from TV critics.

He's made fun of for being dumb on Mad TV, but no one, no one loves to hate the show more than the king of all media and the villain of our episode, Howard Stern.

Now, Stern is no stranger to celebrity beefs.

Over the years, he's picked high-profile fights with the likes of Lena Dunham, John Bon Jovi, and late-night hosts Arseniel Hall and David Letterman.

I think it's funny to limit Stern's beefs to like a small list.

Yes.

Who has he not had,

right?

That's a smaller list.

Well, Stern loves to to crap on anyone who fails, even a little bit.

But in 1998, Stern and his crew of co-hosts and oddball regulars find their muse in Magic Johnson.

On his show, Stern targets the Magic Hour and its hosts by playing awkward clips and criticizing Magic's performance.

The bit becomes an easy content machine, and Stern becomes obsessed.

As the weeks stretch on, the Magic Hour ratings keep thinning out.

Magic's team also seems to be having trouble getting good guests to come on the show.

And part of the reason why is actually pretty sad.

Magic says he thinks that black celebrities managers are keeping them off of black shows like the Magic Hour because they think it's less prestigious than the white shows.

Wow.

So they are booking some A-listers like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Suzanne Summers, but also weird acts like an eight-year-old chef and a dance troupe called the Tap Dogs.

Eight-year-old chef.

An eight-year-old chef.

Sounds like a show.

I mean, that's like classic Johnny Carson tonight show booking.

Yeah.

So Fox needs ratings.

They need better guests.

And one of the most popular gabbers in the country, Howard Stern, is making fun of the show, sinking it even further.

So what do you do?

Not this.

Not this.

You book Howard Stern.

What?

So if you can forget for a second that you're a guest on a podcast called The Big Flop, would you say this is a good idea or a bad idea?

I think people would want to see it.

I think it's kind of a it's it's kind of logical.

I think if I'm Magic Johnson and they go, this is our last ditch effort, I'd be like, oh, then we're done.

Let's just say, yeah, that's true.

Like, yeah, I would just be like, oh, we're done.

They were chasing clicks before we understood what chasing clicks were.

Yeah.

Howard Stern is slated to be the main guest on The Magic Hour, and the episode will air on July 2nd, 1998.

TV critics are actually concerned on Magic's behalf.

The day before, Entertainment Weekly critic Bruce Fretz warns, Magic is not particularly quick-witted.

He's going to be eaten alive by Howard unless he's really on his toes.

And that is exactly what Howard Stern wants.

He's already doing everything he can to ruin the show from afar.

Being there in person with Magic will make his job much easier.

So, the opening theme plays for the Magic Hour.

The announcer teases guests Stern and 1998 Playboy Playmate of the Year, Karen McDougal, plus a performance from Stern's band, The Losers.

The Losers.

The Losers.

You gotta pronounce that correctly.

Colbert and the Losers.

Yeah, Colbert and the Losers.

Magic addresses the elephant in the room that Stern's been talking crap and then allows Stern's band to play a cover of the song Wipeout with flatulists performing the solos.

Can we wager a guess as to what a flatulist does?

I think we've been around the block enough to know that

is it related to Count Flatula?

Is it what makes my five-year-old laugh more than anything else?

Yeah,

yeah, fart artists, fartists, if you will.

Enjoy that because things are about to get a lot less fun.

Wow.

That's what I'm saying.

Magic should know.

I feel bad for Magic.

He was too busy to understand.

He also probably thought Howard Stern was going to play fair.

He was also in way over his head.

I get all that.

I just wish somebody had been like, Magic, Howard Stern is going to Howard Stern this show.

He's not a guest on your show.

He's about to trash your house.

Oh, my God.

So the band includes Stern Show regulars, co-host Robin Quivers, producer Gary Delebate, aka Baba Booe, writer Jackie, the joke man Martling, and of course, the musical farters.

Stern himself plays the keyboard, and he does not seem to know how to play whatsoever, just banging randomly on the keys throughout the song, quite annoying.

The performance is the epitome of trolling, but the audience absolutely goes wild.

Now, I am so sorry, but here's a clip.

This is Sternid's most Hollywood vampire.

I know it's all Hollywood vampire.

For a moment, just pause and think about all the incredible parties that Maggie Johnson has been to and thrown in his life.

All the incredible conversations he's had, all the high levels of things he's done.

Exactly.

He's got this whole legacy, and then there's band members in gas masks with men bent over and farting into microphones on the stage of his show.

Disrespectful is not quite the word.

Well, once Stern plops his butt down on the couch, things go south pretty quickly.

Please gird your loins for the following summary of horrors.

Why does he keep picking on Magic?

The host asks.

Well, Stern answers because he, Stern, is a talk show host and he'd never tried to be a basketball player.

Likewise, Magic should stick to what he does best.

Sidebar, that's very reminiscent of when journalist Laura Ingram told LeBron to shut up and dribble when he expressed his political views.

So Stern then offers some unsolicited notes.

Firstly, band leader Sheila E should sex it up, maybe rip off her top, dress less conservatively.

Then, Stern suggests, Magic should stop trying to sound like the white man.

Magic laughs it off, admitting that he's been given interview and speech lessons, perfectly normal for a TV host to get some media training.

But Stern says, everyone is anti-Ebonics.

I say, let it fly.

Wow.

There are only two more awkward minutes of Stern being mean, creepy, and racist before the absolute worst moment of the episode happens.

Listen to me.

Okay.

All right, so go ahead.

I'm a girl.

I'm hot, and I want to get into Magic's room, but obviously you're the host of the party.

You're the man with the money.

What are you worth?

$200, $300 million?

I'm worth like you.

So, anyway,

so any girl would want to get into your room.

These are white chicks, black chicks.

What do we got?

Let's see.

What did you prefer?

It's a party of everybody.

So you would have sex with everybody.

At least you had fun getting age.

You know what I'm saying?

Dialogue.

First of all, let's get something straight.

Please do.

HIV.

Go ahead.

And nobody has fun getting HIV.

No.

Well, you believe me, brother.

You did.

So we got to see what you're doing.

Wow.

We'll discuss what Magic was thinking in a bit, but how do you think Magic handled Stern in this moment?

Yeah, it's like, did anyone do any research?

Yeah, that was tough.

I think he handled it the only way he could.

I mean, it wasn't terrible.

It was just like he just didn't want to be talking about

things the way that he was talking about them.

And then, but also at the same time, Stern comes off as obviously trying

to continue the vibe of this kind of antagonism.

I should note for the listeners that that clip was so evil that it actually broke Kamau's laptop.

So you'll be hearing him on his phone henceforth.

Unbelievably, Stern is still there after the commercial break.

Throughout the episode, he repeatedly bothers the female guests in what would definitely now be cancelable.

Stern keeps commenting on guest Karen McDougal's breasts, asking if they're real.

And when Magic protests and says he's trying to interview McDougal, Stern says, you don't need to interview her, just get a close-up on her chest.

Wow.

Stern starts dancing with another guest, Jessica Han, trying to lift up her skirt to expose her butt to the audience.

He later straddles Han on the couch and air humps her.

And Stern even sneaks up behind Sheila E and almost kisses her neck in the middle of a drum solo.

I mean, would this be airable today?

I mean, it just feels like this would more be used as evidence in a court trial.

You just can't do that.

I mean, it's that shit is insane.

You know, obviously the late night's filled with moments like this, but like these in a way.

Although I think in Stern's case, he probably did the most in one,

probably,

because usually people are just not on back.

They're not back, you know.

Like if Crispin Glover did that karate chop kick or whatever the hell he did to Letterman and Letterman was immediately like, no,

you're out of here.

Like, you know, like crazy.

But again, we're talking about like what we were saying earlier about like Letterman's in charge of his show and you can feel with magic.

He's not really in charge of that show.

No.

Well, reflecting on the disastrous appearance, Magic Johnson told Variety, quote, I wanted to say something and hit him at the same time on air.

I was mad when they booked him, but there's nothing you can do.

When people look for ratings, this is what happens.

He continued to say, I've never put myself or HIV and AIDS or my race in that position again, ever, again.

Wow.

That's an amazing statement.

Yeah, I mean, I think that sort of type of thing exists, but the problem is, is like that thing plus magic don't go together.

And I think that the reason why they invited Stern on was to do that because they were desperate for ratings, and that puts Magic in a really bad spot.

Because the one thing you don't associate with Magic Johnson is desperation for attention.

Yeah,

well, unfortunately, this guest appearance deal with the devil technically pays off.

The spectacle causes a ratings bump that puts Magic ahead of Leno and Letterman in some markets, but it isn't enough to keep the show going.

On August 8th, 1998, the Magic Hour is canceled after only two months on the air.

It's an embarrassingly short run for a talk show, and it cost Magic reputation and it cost Fox a lot of money.

It's hard to say exactly how much, but a late night show can cost up to $1.7 million a week.

And that's not even counting all the promos and marketing that they had to do for a new show.

So.

Let's do a little, where are they now?

Yeah, whatever happened to Magic Johnson.

What are you doing now?

So, Magic Johnson left the talk show game and refocused his attention on business ventures and HIV activism.

He continues to run his chain of theaters.

He started a record label and endorsed a prepaid MasterCard.

For two years, he served as the Lakers' president of basketball operations, although this stint at the Lakers didn't go great for him either.

Howard Stern continued doing his radio show until 2005 before moving to Sirius Satellite Radio, where he has been broadcasting ever since.

He's rebranded as a softer Stern, a less Stern Stern, if you will, and interviews A-list celebs, including ones he blasted in the 90s, like Arsenio.

Craig Shoemaker continues to tour as a stand-up comedian.

He's had acting gigs, specials, and various career ups and downs.

Drawing from his comedy background, he sometimes does life coaching.

So here on the big flop, we try to be positive people and end on a high note.

So are there any silver linings that you can think of that came about from the Magic Hour?

I mean, everybody's fine.

I mean, I think that like, It's more of a blip.

It's sort of to me, it's like a chapter of the weird history of talk shows where everybody got a shot at a talk show at one point and for magic's career i think his stay with the lakers as it being in charge of the team not as a player did more reputational damage than this i think this is sort of a like huh

and i actually think showing him in stern actually helps magic in a way to go yeah he was always he was never going to totally sell himself out for clicks love that yeah i mean i remember it for a second like it like i always thought maybe it was a dream that that talk show ever existed it was just bad producing like whoever had the idea for him to be a host, they probably could have framed the show that better suited him as a host.

It's just, it's interesting that to hear those stories and to just hear how many resources go into something that barely exists for any time at all.

Since The Magic Hour went off the air, there have been a few late night shows with black hosts, but none really on major networks.

There are a few notable ones, obviously the Chris Rock Show that ran on HBO, Trevor Noah took over hosting duties for comedy central's the daily show in 2015 and won many emmy awards the nightly show with larry willmore ran on comedy central z-way ran for two seasons on showtime am i leaving any out that you can think of robin thee had a talk show amber ruffin on peacock had a talk show as it's like sort of that seth meyer produced i mean obviously come out show

Well, now that you both know about the magic hour, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop?

I think this is a baby flop.

I don't think, I think it's fun to pick through the clips and look at how embarrassing it is.

But, like, I don't know if you know this, Magic Johnson is a billionaire.

And Howard Stern is doing okay.

He might be a billionaire.

I haven't kept up.

I don't get his emails like I get Magic Johnson's bank account emails.

You know, and Craig Shoemaker, if he didn't have that story, I don't know what story he'd be telling over and over again.

Yeah, I'd call it a mid-flop.

It was mid.

Like how Saturn was it?

Oh no, Jupiter almost was the sun, they say.

It had the makings of something that could have been really terrible, but even the most terrible thing that happened

was

very anemic, you know, like Howard Stern doing all that craziness or whatever.

There was no clash, you know, like a huge clash.

There wasn't like a fight.

So it's just kind of like, just kind of medium mid for me.

You know, I mean, I think they all are doing just fine, but Fox still doesn't have a late-night show, unless you count Gutfeld.

Guttfeld.

Gutfeld.

Guttfeld.

Well, thank you so much to our incredible guests, W.

Kamal Bell and Reggie Watts, for joining us here on The Big Flop.

And thanks to all of you for listening.

Remember, if you are enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review.

And we'll be back next week to talk about The Wing, the

only co-working space that girl bossed its way to a spectacular crash bye bye bye bye

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