Milli Vanilli: Girl You Know Everybody Lip Syncs with Demi Adejuyigbe and Moshe Kasher | 23

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It's the 1990 Grammy Awards, and everyone's eyes are glued to Rob Palladis and Fab Morvin, aka Millie Vanilli, the hot new duo out of Germany.

Hot is an understatement.

These dudes are smoking.

Not only because they're physically attractive, which they are, Rob with his jade green eyes and Fab with that dreamy grin, both statuesque dancers.

But their music is burning up the charts.

An overnight success, Millie Vanilli has sold millions of poppy RB albums, and they're up for best new artist at the Grammys.

The duo is about to perform their hit single, Girl You Know It's True, for countless music fans around the world.

But Rob and Fab have a terrible secret.

Neither of them has actually sung a single note on their award-nominated album and if they sing live tonight, everyone will hear the truth.

This deception is the work of Frank Farion, their producer behind the curtain, pulling all the strings.

Tonight, he's pulled one more, breaking the rules of the awards ceremony by arranging for Millie Vanilli to lip-sync on stage.

The performance goes well.

Now they just have to hope they don't win the Grammy, or else they'll definitely get caught.

Here are two former world-class breakdancers nominated for Grammys who have become huge international stars with record sales in the millions.

Well, girl, you know it's true.

It can only mean Millie Vanilli.

It's been a burden that they've carried the last 18 months.

However, once the album hit, it became such a humongous hit that it just kind of got bigger than the both of them.

Well, maybe they wouldn't have been so disgraced if they hadn't been so successful.

They lived a lie, and when the truth was out, they lived in shame.

When somebody goes into the store to buy a Millie-Vanilli album, they expect to be buying an album that is sung by Morvan and Platius, and they weren't buying that.

We

are on

a single

ship.

From Wondery and At Will Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time.

I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar and definitely not lip-syncing, at Don't Cross a Gay Man.

And today, we're talking about the rise and fall of Millie Vanilli.

On our show today, we have a comedian, writer, former Vine Master, and prolific podcast host.

It's Demi Atajuibe.

Hey, how are you doing?

Hello.

Great.

Never been called a Vine Master.

That is.

How does it feel?

Strange.

I'm I'm conflicted, but I love it.

I'll take any accolade.

Good, good.

Also on the show today is an actor, podcaster, and author.

His newest book, Subculture Vulture, a Memoir in Six Scenes Just Hit Shelves.

It's Moshe Casher.

Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

And I am also a Vine Master, but not from the platform Vine.

I just have a horticulture thing going on, and they're really coming in nicely.

So I guess before we get into the story, what do you both remember about Millie Vanilli before The Crash and Burn?

I know two of their songs and I vaguely know the story of what happened, but that's it.

I have to admit that I know everything about Milli Vanilli.

This is directly in my generational bullseye, so I know too much.

But what I remember is that it's from a time in music where all you really had to be was music and you could become really, really famous.

Like, what genre is Milli Vanilli?

Is it R ⁇ B?

Is it dance?

Is it European?

It just feels like it's Europe.

Yeah, I agree with that.

All right, well, let's get into it.

It's the mid-70s in Germany, and a young music producer, Frank Farion, is trying to make his mark on the industry.

Frank is extremely driven and talented.

He produces tracks that draw from his love of black American soul, the stuff he listened to growing up near a U.S.

military base.

Music from artists like Little Richard Richard and Otis Redding, for example.

Just so the listeners know, because this is an audio medium, Frank Feria looks like if Dracula did cocaine, I guess is how I would describe it.

If.

And then Dracula was doing lines?

What are we doing tonight, my boys?

I'll tell you what.

I want to sniff your coke.

Well, Frank wishes more than anything to perform the type of music that he loves, but nobody wants to see that.

German record producers tell him that he doesn't have the look, and they advise him to stick with German music.

Frank gets the hint, sort of.

He understands that he can't be the face of his music, but he keeps producing and releases a 1975 song called Baby Do You Wanna Bump for the band Boney M, a four-person reggae funk group.

Oh, I told you this is all cocaine-related.

Baby, do you wanna bump?

Come Come on, guys.

Think about it.

Yup.

Boney M, I know the band, but they also, that sounds like a Dracula band.

It sounds like a Monster Mash kind of band.

Yeah, it sounds like Dracula's henchmen.

If you don't fear me, you will fear Bony M.

Boney M, come from the cave.

Well, slowly but surely, the track climbs the charts until it's an actual hit.

And people, they want to see the song performed live, except problem, Bony M is not an actual band.

It's just Frank.

He's figured out how to use one of the tools in his studio, a harmonizer, to pitch his voice lower so he can sing the deep baritone lead vocals and higher to sing falsetto female backing tracks.

The song becomes more and more popular, but Frank knows there's no way he can perform the song live as Bonie M.

Or, I mean, or could he?

What could he?

Is there anything?

He needs to invent a mirror system, just like, yeah, now I will go behind the curtain.

Rah, raw, raspy.

The band has a look, though, right?

I mean, there are people that people think Bony M is, right?

Yes.

I mean, Frank, the ever-problem solver, comes up with a creative solution that I'm sure won't lead to any problems.

He puts together a group of black session musicians and models, says they're Bony M, and they start putting on concerts of Frank's music.

And it worked for him.

Boney M is internationally successful for about a decade.

The music is catchy, the band is fun, the concert and albums sell very well.

That includes a record called Love for Sale with a cover photo featuring the band almost naked, wearing nothing but futuristic underwear and chains.

Oh, sure.

Little racist for a white man to come up with that.

You're telling me that a guy that was mimicking black culture and pretending to be black singers and hiring non-musicians to pretend to be musicians had a little bit of racial problematics going on in his marketing material?

I know.

Shocking.

And it wasn't just him.

I mean, even American record distributors at the time think it's too much and use an alternate picture of Bony M wearing 1920s jazz club costumes.

Oh, that's 1920s jazz singing.

I don't know if there's anything there that is racist.

We're clean.

We got it, boys.

We took care of all the racial tension.

We're in the 20s.

We got it.

It works.

The band sells 80 million records.

And the lesson for Frank, it's very easy to make millions of dollars based on a lie.

And nobody finds out that the band is fake until much later, and there were no consequences.

But the popularity of Bonnie M does fizzle out, and Frank sets his eyes on the next big thing.

Bonnie M got older.

They got osteoporosis in those bonies.

Guys, this has been really fun to be here.

This has been really good.

So in the late 80s, RB and rap are exploding, while disco is more or less dead.

And Frank wants to capitalize on the shift and start a new group.

So he finds singers who have the right sound, they just don't fit the look.

So he's patient, he waits.

Meanwhile, two beautiful multi-hyphenates, Robert Palladis and Fabrice Morvin, pop onto the Munich music scene.

The two are roommates, their best buds.

Rob is German, while Fab is from France, but both connect over being black in mostly white art spaces.

And they make some interesting fashion choices and everyone agrees they look good.

Really good.

And we have some photos for you.

I'd love for you to describe their look.

Long hair,

extensions, leather jackets, beautiful piercing eyes.

They're kind of playing with a simultaneously hyper-masculine and extremely feminine thing at the same time, right?

Yeah, there's like a Lenny Kravitz type thing going on here.

Oh, yeah.

for sure.

Or like those twins from the Matrix if they were hot black men.

Right.

It's like Lenny Kravitz if he were sent back in time to kill John Connor.

Yes.

There's a deep Terminator stare that insists that they are here to destroy something.

Rob and Fab perform as a singing duo in German clubs and do backup dancing wherever they can to make rent.

They have a younger, older brother relationship and balance each other out.

Rob is a brash, confident guy, but mercurial.

Fab is quieter, an observer, very loyal.

Both have survived rough childhoods and the two dream of making it big.

So I feel like these guys are primed for the rags to riches tale.

Yeah, everything's gonna go great.

Everything's gonna go great.

Misha, spoiler alert, spoiler alert.

These guys make it?

Come on.

They are about to get their big break.

So Rob and Fab, they get to meet Frank Farion, the producer behind Boney M.

Frank and his associate associate slash girlfriend Ingrid Ziegoth agree these boys are stunning so frank offers them each 1500 Deutschmark for recording rights for 10 songs per year together and so for the listeners that's a pathetic amount of money it's about seven thousand dollars today 10 songs a year yeah for 7k That's also a crazy rate because I'm like, that's like saying we're going to make an album a year, which is so much work.

that's where frank feria says don't worry it's actually not that much work yeah

but you know i guess for two young dudes trying to make ends meet that's a good chunk of change yeah so excited and naive fab says that he and rob barely read the contract that day a decision that will haunt them for the rest of their lives they toast to the deal but it's immediately awkward according to fab Frank warns the duo, quote, don't fuck with me.

I close to every single deal like that, to be honest.

Yeah, that's sort of my thing.

Yeah, same.

I say it very nice, though.

Yeah, yeah, you are sweet.

I've heard you, he said, Debbie said it to me, and it actually makes it warms you up a little bit.

It feels good.

Don't fuck with me.

Don't.

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So, months go by without a word from Frank until one day they get invited to the studio, Frank's HQ, to hear a finished instrumental track.

It sounds amazing, super professional and cool, and the duo loves it.

But Frank drops a bombshell.

He doesn't want them singing.

To Frank's ear, they sound, quote, wrong.

Rob has a low German Bavarian accent, and Fab sounds too French.

So Frank never intended for them to sing.

He just loved their look and their dance moves.

He's like, you guys sound like if Dracula were doing Coke.

But together, we will take over the market.

Robin Fab will be lip-syncing to vocals recorded by American session musicians, and they are pissed.

So let's listen to Fab recount Ingrid and Frank's ultimatum on the Paramount Plus documentary, Meli Vanelli.

If we didn't want to take part,

I mean, you gotta just lip sync.

You just gotta go, all right, this will blow up in our face at some point, but I do not have the $7,000 or whatever.

Well, one of the mysterious questions of this story is: how much did they really know?

Like, did they really get fully hoodwinked, or did they kind of make a deal with the devil and know that they were getting into something that would eventually come back to haunt them?

It was hard for me to tell.

I don't think you can get out of this deal so easily.

Yeah.

Well, it's hard to tell because the accounts differ, but Fab maintains that they were pretty hoodwinked at the beginning there.

But ultimately, Rob and Fab do agree to Farian's terms.

So Millie Vanilli is born.

By the way, what do we think of the name Millie Vanilli?

That was going to be my biggest question coming into this because I'm like, where did that come from?

It doesn't sound like a band.

It sounds like a pudding cup.

Everything about this band, story, people,

characters, fashion, dance moves is so unbelievably European, it can't be quantified.

Again, it sounds like a German guy, his fantasy of what a pop band should be called.

The way Robin Fab danced, it is good dancing, but it's good dancing through this, I would call it a low German Bavarian lens.

It's very Oktoberfest.

That's right.

Yeah, but it's like Millennial Oktoberfest.

It's modern Oktoberfest.

So, Demi, to answer your question, we do know how they came up with the name Millie Vanilli.

It's surprisingly controversial.

And to figure out how they came up with the name, let's play a game.

So I'm going to ask you some questions about the name Millie Benilli with some multiple choice answers that you pick from.

The first question.

The word Millie derives from what?

A.

Manila envelopes, the kind Frank used to hold important contracts.

B.

the nickname of someone really close to Frank.

Or C.

The German grain mills that surrounded Robin Fab's neighborhood?

I'm going to say the nickname of someone close to Frank.

And I will go with the mills.

Demi, you got it right.

Ding, ding, ding.

Frank's girlfriend, Ingrid Ziegeth, sometimes went by Millie.

That's where that came from.

All right.

Second question.

The word vanilli derives from.

I don't think we need the multiple choice.

It's racially problematic.

Yeah, I'm like, I was like, it's controversial.

I'm like, okay, so people are involved and it's it's something about being white.

Yeah.

Frank Ferry is racist.

Choice one, two, and three.

Well, you might be surprised.

So let's see if you can tell where the word vanilli derives from.

Is it A, Frank's favorite cookie flavored with artificial vanillin flavor?

B a play on the word vinyl because Frank owned a test press.

Or C, it just sounded good and rhymed with Millie.

None of those are racist enough.

I know.

It leaves you wanting more, doesn't it?

I'll go with the cookie.

Yeah, I'll also go with the cookie.

Oh, actually, it was just because it sounded good.

Damn it.

The rhyming name was an homage to a British band Scritty Palidi, which itself was inspired by the song Tootty Frutti by Lil Richard.

All right.

Europe is on a whole other level of just

you and your Scritty Palidity,

your friggin' all of your mini, milly vanilli.

Like, it's just, it all sounds like something they're saying derogatorily.

Yes, Demi, yes.

And it also does sort of sound like a SoundCloud wrapper of the modern era.

It does.

I could see a Scritty Palidi blowing up really big online.

Absolutely.

All right, two more.

In early publicity materials, milli-vanilli was said to actually mean what?

A, positive energy in Turkish, B, amazing dream in Greek, or C, unstoppable force in Swahili.

Okay, we found the racially problematic thing.

I gotta go with Swahili.

Swahili.

No, that one's down to our writers because it was actually a positive energy in Turkish.

But vanilli is not a Turkish word and manili means national.

A 1990 LA Times article repeats that mili vanili means positive energy but does not include a fact check.

Go figs.

All right, one more.

When people found out the Turkish origin of the name was a lie, they reported that the name came from A, a consignment shop in Frankfurt, B, a disco club in Berlin, or C, a patisserie in Paris.

Disco club in Berlin, I'm gonna say.

Yeah, I'll do that too.

Ding, ding, ding.

It was a defunct disco club in Berlin.

Let's freaking go.

We gotta go dance with the Millie Vanilli tonight.

I will be chat Millie's Vanillis.

You will see Frank Paria.

So, back back to the story, Frank produces Millie Vanilli's first album, All or Nothing, with Millie Vanilli's signature single, a cover of Girl You Know It's True, a song by a Baltimore band called Newmarks.

Fun fact, Newmarks didn't know their song was going to be covered until they heard Millie Vanilli's version all over the radio and TV.

Oh, I didn't know that song was a cover.

Can you do that?

Maybe back then you could do it, but maybe that's, is this why you can no longer do it?

I think it's like there's a rights thing that you have to pay if if you're releasing it as a proper song, but I don't think you have to like let the band know.

So speaking of TV, I'm curious what you guys think of Millie Vanilli's biggest music video.

So let's watch the beginning of that.

Is it a bop?

It absolutely is a bop, and I forgot that it was.

Yeah.

Is choice a bop all day?

I mean, it is is

one thing, it feels like it was a guilty pleasure upon release.

I remember it not feeling sincere when it came out.

Like it always felt like a thing you enjoyed with a wink, but it was undeniably good.

Yeah.

I mean, the single is a massive hit in Europe, to everyone's surprise.

So, yet again, Frank is the dog who's caught the car.

Like with Boney Am, he didn't expect the song to hit this big, big enough to be released in the U.S.

by distributor Arista Records, home of exec Clive Davis, who takes responsibility for launching Whitney Houston, Barry Manilow, and Patty Smith, to name a few.

So, as their fame kicks into high gear, Rob and Fab go from being kind of annoyed with Frank to becoming extremely paranoid.

During photo shoots, live appearances, and meet-and-greets, the two have no idea who knows the truth.

Meanwhile, Frank tries to keep a lid on the big secret.

Not even Arista, the American record label that represents Melee Benilli, knows.

Or at least they act like they don't.

One of the greatest juxtapositions is when they're in interview.

I mean, it's just hilarious because these guys sing and rap like they're just like perfectly accented American men.

And then in interview, especially, I think Fab

does not speak English.

He cannot answer the questions in English.

Rob answers in an insanely accented, German-accented English.

And Fab is just like, sorry, I literally don't know what's happening, but shall I rap?

And then just begets to rap in this like perfect cadence.

It's like, what did you, did you phonetically, did you have like a hooked on phonic splash card system to learn your raps?

I mean, it must have, which is really impressive, I think.

So the North American album, Girl, You Know It's True, was truly unstoppable.

It spawns three number one hits, Girl, You Know It's True, Baby Don't Forget My Number, and Girl, I'm Gonna Miss You, with an additional two songs that break the top five.

Every one of those songs slaps.

And that's right.

I said slaps.

I'm 44 years old.

And I said slaps.

But every one of those songs is good.

This band is good, but they're also very bad.

And that's what's so unique and interesting about them.

Yeah.

I mean, people agreed because the album sold 8 million copies.

Not too shabby.

So Millie Vanilli's popularity is skyrocketing, but their PR starts to sputter.

Their obvious language barrier, the weight of their big secret, and their inexperience all contribute to some awkward interviews, as Mosho is talking about.

So let's hear a clip of Rob and Fab answering softball questions from a group of kid fans on the Mickey Mouse Club.

The scene changing personally, and if so, in what way?

Honestly, it changed, changed, you know.

No it changed.

The most people say, oh,

I'm still the same, you know.

But it's a dangerous thing, pain, on one tide, because people hype you every time and you will recognize that they're famous.

And suddenly people don't tell you the truth anymore just to stay with you and then you by yourself lose uh you lose the

the the real the real

lose trust and you lose the real sense of life.

Is this not an outfit that Queen Latifah also wore on her show?

I also love how incredibly German this answer is.

This little boy's like, does fame change you?

He's like, fame is a shadow.

It is a skeleton of a life that could have been lived but was went down in flames.

Fame is a lonely poem on top of a mountain.

And the kid is just like crying.

The kid's just nodding like he's heard it before.

Like, yeah, that's what I thought you were going to say.

Well, despite Rob's attempt at being truthful, wherever he can, the pop culture community picks up on some of that fakeness.

Like, this can never happen today because on Twitter, immediately people would be like, Is this real?

And there'd be discussion in 15 minutes and be like, Who knows?

But this is like, we can do this for like three years because there's no consensus, but you can just go, I think it's real.

It's gotta be real until something breaks publicly.

Right, you gotta fly to Munich to go cancel them.

Yeah.

Well, in 1989, the Millie-Vanilli secret was almost exposed.

During a performance in Connecticut, the duo is decked out in their usual incredible fashion.

Fab is wearing an open black vest and skin-type bike shorts, while Rob has a leather jacket draped over a midriff bearing tank top and matching white bike shorts.

The crowd is going wild as they start their biggest hit, girl.

You know it's true.

But then something goes wrong.

There are different accounts of exactly what happened.

Some say a track skipped, looping vocals over and over.

Others say a hard drive crashed, but the two were left helpless to perform without it.

But whatever happened in that moment, Rob and Fab are caught on stage, most definitely not singing.

And they fumble around stage, not knowing what to do or how to keep the crowd engaged.

So what do they do?

They panic and they run offstage in the middle of their set.

This story reads like a mythological polemic.

Like the song is called, Girl, You You Know It's True, and It Is the Greatest Lie Ever Unfolded on the Music Industry.

Like, there's something so mythologically tragic about this whole thing.

Yeah.

So, they run off stage, and the host of the tour, legendary MTV VJ downtown Julie Brown, witnesses the moment.

And here's Julie recounting the whole thing.

As I opened my door, I saw Rob go flying by.

Rob had gotten hold of me to say, I don't know what to do you know he was scared

he kind of exploded it was the moment where it just

burst open

and at that time we didn't know what pressure he was feeling because we didn't know the load they were carrying

This exact kind of thing is like the nightmare that you have to imagine might happen once this whole thing starts, which is like, obviously, if their story is true, they, they kind of got tricked into doing this.

I just, I have nothing but sympathy for them because it's like, you kind of know this is going to happen.

And nowadays, I think if it happened, everyone would be like, oh, everyone is always faking.

Who cares?

But it does feel a little like at the time, there was a versamilitude performing that it's like, we're signing up to see the real thing.

And so it just.

It's fucking terrifying.

Yeah, it's like what you're talking about, Demi.

Like, I'm obsessed with that idea of people that walk around with a great lie that know that someday it's rolling towards them and the boulder's getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and they know that they will be crushed, but they have to just keep walking because it's like the only thing that gives them like life force.

Terrifying.

Well, to be fair to Robin Fab at this moment, many of the acts on that MTV tour, they use backing tracks to faithfully replicate fam favorite sounds while also dancing.

The mishap is embarrassing, but people don't realize the extent of the deception.

Arista execs are now definitely aware that something is up with these two and they do nothing.

So I mean against all sanity, the Millie Vanilli train, they just keep chugging.

They're on magazine covers, they're selling millions of albums, they win three American music awards, everything's going great.

This is after the mishap?

Yeah.

That's crazy.

And so everything's going great until their assistant promotional manager, Todd Headley, digs around and finds something scandalous.

That Millie Vanilli hasn't hasn't been submitted for Grammy consideration.

And he figures out how to enter them.

And he does.

And he's very surprised that his bosses freak out.

Do you have any inkling as to why they would be so mad with him?

Because they have to perform at the Grammys?

Yes, there is this rule the Grammys have, and you cannot get around it.

If you get nominated, you have to sing live.

No backing tracks.

They call it the Millie Vanilli rule, I believe.

It's It's definitely only certain categories, not all of them.

But so being exposed at a tour show in Connecticut is nothing compared to being exposed as frauds at the Grammys.

Yeah.

The poor guy, too, who submitted them in his interview, it's so, he's so innocent.

He's like, I just...

I thought they were really good and they sold so many records and I thought the Grammys are a good award.

Why would I not submit them for the Grammy?

It's the best one.

Millie Vanilli are nominated for 1990s Best New Artist at the Grammys, along with the Indigo Girls, Nina Cherry, Soul to Soul, and Tone Loke.

So they must perform live to avoid suspicion.

So what's the solution?

If I were there, I'd just been like, hey, tell him you're sick.

Tell him Rob is sick.

You cannot perform.

That would have been really smart.

You know what?

That's the move of a real conniving liar, Demi, and I love it.

You say yes.

You go, great.

We'll sing.

It sounds amazing.

The day of the ceremony, you go, oh, appendicitis.

We're going back to Munich.

You won't know what it is, but we have COVID.

You won't know what it is.

I told you we traveled back from the future to kill John Canna when we have COVID.

Well, Frank, our creative bad boy, he comes up with another banger.

He bribes someone at the recording academy so Millie Vanilli can perform with playback.

So the Grammy lip sync heist goes off without any issue.

Great.

He gets it done.

He gets it done.

That's also a good plan.

So this whole situation is already basically getting away with murder, but even murderier Millie Vanilli wins the Grammy.

Ooh.

If I'm tone look, I'm pissed.

Yeah, that's not good, by the way.

I almost feel like they weren't happy to win it.

Their speech is curt.

It's vague.

Rob is trying to deflect the attention.

Technically, Rob and Fab have taken a lifetime achievement away from hardworking singers.

So privately and sort of publicly, Rob and Fab are starting to lose their minds.

The guilt and fear over their deceit is absolutely crushing.

The pair start using drugs freely.

Rob's health begins to drastically decline.

Weirdly, in spite of their secret shame, the success goes right to their heads.

In Time magazine, Rob and Fab kick up a storm by claiming to be the new Elvis.

They say that they're bigger than Bob Dylan and Paul McCartney.

I mean, to be fair, John Lennon did say the Beatles were more popular than Jesus.

But they're right below Jesus in the scale.

It's like Jesus, Millie Vanelli, Paul, Solo, the Beatles.

You don't have to do that, but it's so clearly that they're panicking.

They go harder than they need to.

This is them like seeing a balloon that should really explode and being like, fuck it, put some more air in this thing.

Let's just, I want to see how big this thing can get.

How hard is it to kill a planet?

Maybe all it takes is a little drilling, some mining, and a whole lot of carbon pumped into the atmosphere.

When you see what's left, it starts to look like a crime scene.

Are we really safe?

Is our water safe?

You destroyed our tubes.

And crimes like that, they don't just happen.

We call things accidents.

There is no accident.

This was 100%

preventable.

They're the result of choices by people.

Ruthless oil tycoons, corrupt politicians, even organized crime.

These are the stories we need to be telling about our changing planet.

Stories of scams, murders, and cover-ups that are about us and the things we're doing to either protect the Earth or destroy it.

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So, meanwhile, Frank is working on the next Millie Vanilli album.

But Rob and Fab, they're sick of the lies.

They want to sing for real this time.

They figure we're a Grammy winning artist.

We've got leverage.

So they go to Frank and demand their real voices are featured on the next album.

So it turns out that it's not just Frank who wants to silence them.

The record label execs don't want them singing either.

Big ouch.

Another huge problem for Rob and Fab is once they lawyer up to fight back, they realize their original contract, the one where they agreed not to sing, was for multiple albums.

I'm like, is the contract, you can't break the contract and just be like, we're not a band anymore.

If they fight too hard, then their secret is exposed.

So, yeah, you just cower in a cave and hope that nobody ever finds out.

I mean, these people are being backed into a psychic spiritual corner where they cannot emerge without being destroyed.

Could they go to the press?

Could they just be like, we have been like forced into this contract?

We don't want to do this.

The evil man is Frank.

Let me just say that at this point, I don't want to be like controversial here, but this doesn't feel to me like positive energy.

Feels like we didn't live up to the name.

This is negative energy.

Well, with no other way out, they start slacking off, not showing up to work and demanding more money.

And surely Frank will just let them off the hook.

No.

He schedules a press conference and ruins their lives.

Oh, what?

So Rob and Fab

want nothing more than peace of mind and redemption, and they're so close.

But Frank beats them to the punch.

He outs Millie Vanilli, his own artists, to the Associated Press.

USA Today and the LA Times break the story.

What the fuck?

Yeah, Frank admits that Rob and Fab aren't the real vocalists on their albums, and he says he's fired them for being difficult.

Wild move for Frank, but he's so confident in his own producing abilities, he's willing to burn Grammy-winning artists.

I've seen it, and the tone with which he admits that he has perpetuated a lie on the entire world stage is so breezy and casual.

He's just like, oh, yeah, we lie.

It's not them.

They never sing in first place.

Anyway, okay, thank you, America.

It's like, you cannot believe how chill he is.

Yeah, the way that you describe it, it's like he's talking about like, ah, these actors were difficult over the second season, they're being replaced.

And it's like, everyone's like, no, half of this is that it's them.

They're hot.

That's so crazy.

In that interview, you know, he says, the music was real and it was great music.

I think we have no problem.

My God.

That is a guy who is high on his own supply, or as they say, sniffing his own farts.

Like, as if the weird, no sferatu-looking man behind the curtain is who the world really wants to hear from.

It's like, oh, no, not the eye candy, perfect, model-looking, amazing dancers with chiseled bodies.

They can go.

It's all about you, the 110-pound German guy with a mullet.

If you want to hear the same stuff, you should listen up for my new band, Cutie Potuti.

They're going to be putting out some really good albums.

Well, unfortunately, Rob and Fab, they don't get off easy.

The Recording Academy revokes Millie Vanilli's Grammy, a first in their history.

The two have no choice but to give their side of the story as they surrender their statues at the most awkward press conference imaginable.

But the press, they aren't sympathetic.

I saw that interview and they describe in the interview 20, 30 years later in terms that really do make them sympathetic.

They're like, look, we grew up in poverty.

We're from the projects.

We wanted to make it more than anything.

And then all of a sudden, this like slick talking like devil with a contract in his hand said, you know, just sign this and do what I say and you'll be rich and famous and your dreams will come true.

And like, who would be able to say no to that?

But there's this kind of shark frenzy that's happening because nobody blames Frank Faria, by the way.

No one's like, this guy's straight up, it's pure evil.

That's wild.

Yeah.

I mean, Slippery Frank, he did get some bad press, but...

He got okay press as well.

The LA Times runs a hugely sympathetic profile of Frank, letting him frame himself as the selfless one, making Rob and Fab rich with little to no thanks.

He says American media paints him to be Saddam Hussein and he throws out some unsubstantiated claims that the village people, the monkeys, Madonna, and Janet Jackson all lip-sync.

Ultimately though, his career is not ruined.

You know, in Frank's defense, I just want to say,

he did say don't fuck with me.

And they did fuck with him.

He did warn them.

Well, Rob and Fab, they stay hopeful that the PR Fallout will die down and they'll regain credibility.

In 1993, the two try to release an album called Rob and Fab with the hopes that they'll sell at least a million records, even just from people buying it out of curiosity.

And they only sell 2,000.

So Rob and Fab, they drift apart.

Fab starts performing unplugged 90s alt-rock music with other musicians.

Rob goes in and out of rehab 11 times in seven years.

At only 32, Rob dies from an overdose.

In the Paramount documentary about the Millie Venelly scandal, Rob's sister says Frank sends a wreath to the funeral, but does not bother showing up in person.

I mean, do you want that guy showing up at the funeral?

I know.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, to be fair, he did sleep in the funeral home in one of the coffins, so he was there.

In a way, he was there.

He couldn't show up.

There was a lot of garlic around him.

That's right.

It was a garlic-based funeral.

So let's do a little where are they now.

Fab lives in Holland with his partner and children.

He continues to sing, sometimes for Millie Vanilli fans, sometimes for Fab fans.

And Frank, well, for a while, he was still developing Euro dance groups, though he'd never have another hit like Millie Vanilli.

Actually, as we were writing this show, he passed away.

Damn.

Stake through the heart.

Touched by the sun.

We can definitely say that he was an extremely talented musician who produced a ton of bangers.

And while his music brought a lot of joy and dancing into the world, his unethical marketing ploys did hurt a lot of artists.

But you do have to wonder what could have been had he gone about things differently and just used his skills more fairly.

Yeah, you could just be like a Max Martin type now, where it's like you produce for a bunch of people, no one knows who you are, but you are a billionaire or whatever.

So here on the big flop, we do like to wrap things up in a more positive note.

So are there any silver linings from this tale that you can think of?

I think the silver lining for Fab is like a kind of classic silver lining for people who have their lives destroyed, which is, and I know this from my years in recovery, and it's something that I think a lot of people have forgotten that being publicly humiliated or hitting rock bottom does not mean the end of your life.

And you can find a way to get through great pain and get to the other hill where the sun is still shining and the rain is back there.

And if you got to blame it on something, you know what to blame it on.

Blame it on the frame.

Blame it on the white guy.

So we were thinking, we found some things that we thought were some nice positives.

Brad Howell, Charles Shaw, and John Davis, the real singers behind Millie Vanilli, did eventually get recognized for their talents.

The music also, as it spawned a lot of controversy controversy and questions, it also spawned a lot of babies, apparently.

Wow.

Because people reported making love to the sexy music of Millie Vanilli.

But you know, the sad part of a lot of those kids did DNA tests and it was revealed that that wasn't really their father.

It was Frank Ferrier the whole time.

God damn.

Frank?

Frank again?

Hey, what's the gender of the baby?

Girl, you know it's true.

So now that you know about the rise and fall of Milli Vanilli, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop?

Yeah, I'd put it in the mega.

Just it feels very, I mean, damaging in every way.

I think the like the ability to bounce back makes me a little like, okay, that's, it's good.

And, but it also had such a repercussion for the music industry and for the way that we talk about music nowadays, where I think there are so many things that people just like refer to, like industry plants and and the idea of lip-syncing, all this.

It's like a sort of thing that everyone acknowledges and feels like, oh, it's all, of course, this is it.

And it's like, I don't think that would have happened if it weren't for Millie Vanilli.

And I think like Schaden Freud is such a powerful force that you can actually forget that it's actual individual human beings that have had their lives destroyed.

And so you, for every wild story that you get great pleasure in watching the downfall of someone, like you forget that it's just a person walking down the street with all of that humiliation.

And that's why the documentary was so nice.

That Fab is like, he has a life that is beautiful.

Is he famous?

He's infamous, maybe, but he's got, it's not a big life, but it's like his partner and him have kids.

He got his life back, and Rob is the tragic kind of other way that it can go.

Well, thank you so much to our incredible guests, Demi Adejuibe and Moshe Kasher, for joining us here on The Big Flop.

And thanks to all of you for listening.

We'll be back next week to tell the story of The Swan, a plastic surgery intensive reality show based on a fairy tale that was actually a complete nightmare.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

The Big Flop is a production of Wondering and At Will Media, hosted by me, Misha Brown.

Produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Tina Turner.

Written by Anna Rubinova.

Engineered by Andrew Holtzberger.

Our story editor is Drew Beebe.

Our managing producer is Molly Getman.

Our executive producers are Kate Walsh and Will Malnati for At Will Media.

Legal support by Carolyn Levin of Miller, Korzynik, Summers, and Raymond.

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Our theme song is Sinking Ship by Cake.

And executive producers are Lizzie Bassett, Morgan Jones, and Marshall Louie for Wondery.

We are

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We

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