The Rejuvenated Cowboys, Most Desperate NFL Teams, Lane Kiffin’s LSU Move, and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal, Todd McShay, and Van Lathan

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The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I have a new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We're doing Rocky 2.

It is the last one we haven't done out of the good ones. We've done Creed.
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Coming up on this podcast, cousin Sal and I reacting off of Denver, Washington overtime.

Denver wins, but pretty fascinating week 13 dating back to Thanksgiving and Black Friday.

That set up a lot of playoff stuff with week 14. It's going to be the best football weekend of the year.
We're going to talk about everything we noticed, all the winners and losers.

And then normally that's it. We do guest alliance parent corner and we call quits.

But the Wayne Kiffen thing was so interesting this week that I decided to have Todd McShea and Van Lathan on to talk about college football's biggest story.

Todd McShea has a podcast with us, has a newsletter with us. Van is on the college football tailgate podcast that we have.
But more importantly, it's Ringer Tailgate, by the way.

More importantly, is a huge LSU fan. So we talked about everything that went on with that story.
So big big action-packed podcast today.

We're going to take a break, bring in Pearl Jam and then Cousin South. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by State Farm.
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All right, we're recording right after Broncos Washton Sunday night, nine o'clock. We didn't go live tonight.
Really fun overtime game. The rare team covers in overtime but doesn't win.

Do you like the overtime roll, Sal? I've asked you this now three times.

It felt like they let Denver score so they could get the ball back because there's no urgency to stop anybody. It's just like, yeah, yeah, run it in.
We don't really care. They get the ball back.

I don't know. There's something I don't like about it.
Well, it's something I don't like either. This is the best we've had it in years.
I don't like that the team,

I think Terico said seven out of the 11 teams that won the coin toss chose to go on defense first. And it's always the same thing.
Your defense is exhausted. Remember, you won a Super Bowl like that.

You won the coin. You know, you would definitely take the ball.
You want to give your defense a little, a few extra minutes. And

it

almost cost them. I guess it didn't matter, but that's one thing I would do.
I don't mind it. I like it forced them to go for two at the end, right? Because

that was exciting. That gave us an exciting ending because otherwise it's Denver with almost three minutes to get down the field to kick a field goal.
How about this? No PATs in overtime.

Just touchdown, two-pointers. That's it.
Okay. Right? So Denver scores.
They go up six. They have to go for two.
I think that would have been more fun. So that was a big win for Denver because

the Pats are big favorites against the Giants tomorrow, though. I think both of us probably like the Giants a little bit as an underdog.

But assuming the Pats win will be in a two-way tie for the one seed. I'm going to give you a list of craziest playoff developments.

We can come back and talk about that game in a second, but would you go with the Pats and Bears are tied for one seeds right now?

Would you go the AFC South is completely wide open with three possible playoff teams? The Chiefs are two games back for a wild card.

Your Cowboys have a chance not only to make the playoffs, but to win the NFC East. What?

Or would you go that 7-10 might win the AFC North and somehow the Bengals are still alive? Out of those five things, what's the most improbable year?

Bill, they're so close. They really are just so close.
I think I'm going to go with the first one.

And I think Fandel agrees with me that the Bears being a number one seed, and yet they are seventh in the NFC odds-wise to win the conference. Yeah.
Yeah.

So I think I got some backing there, but they're all really freaky, really, really stupid year. Well, it's funny because that next week, which we'll do guest the lines later, week 14 is incredible.

It's like the best late. It's like huge playoff implications.
Some teams that

including the Chiefs, who actually have to win now, they can't fuck around anymore.

But there was some good stuff this week. Thursday was great.
Thursday was probably...

I think the best start to finish Thanksgiving football day, unless you're a Ravens fan. But just that the first two games were awesome.
Usually on the West Coast, we're eating during the second game.

That game, I didn't even feel like I caught all of it. I'm sure you did.
If you're in the East Coast, you're watching during the first game.

And then Burrow had this magical comeback and threw his hat back in the ring. But can you remember three better Thanksgiving games? No,

I was worried. It's funny.
Two weeks ago, I was like, oh, my stupid Cowboys ruined this just beautiful slate they put forward for us. And then Cowboys won last week, beat the Eagles.

KC won, and probably in the fourth quarter against the Colts. It's like, this was set up perfectly.
No, it was great. I wish I had won money.

I couldn't celebrate too long from the Cowboys because I had those F and Ravens on a teaser and every teaser. So that was that.

Well, we got to do it. We got to talk about it.
America wants to know. What is it?

The Cowboys are like good.

Like, you might be a real playoff team. You have a chance to catch this.
I don't know how you would describe this Eagles team. Their fans hate them.
They're an absolute eyesore to watch.

Their defense, which we were praising two weeks ago in this podcast, seems like it's gone sideways. I don't understand what's happening with them at all.

There were some good videos over the weekend of just like Jalen Hurts, mechanic stuff, quarterback receivers on the wrong pages. They just seem like a mess.

I thought they were going to fire their offensive coordinator yesterday. They didn't.

But your team.

You have two of the best seven receivers of the league. Okay.
Yeah. Two of the best eight, two of the best six?

Whatever the list is, both of those guys are on. I mean, Jefferson, I don't know what these guys do anymore.
No, it's, it's, uh, it's great. It's very exciting.

I wouldn't want to play this offense if I were any other team, right? The defense is coming alive. Quentin Williams already like three times as many pressures as he had with the Jets.

So that's a trade. Yes.
And yet, emotionally, I still am pissed at them that they lost to Arizona. You know, like, I'll get over that in like three weeks.

But

I'm really pumped about it. It made Thanksgiving fun.
The problem is we have another elimination game Thursday against Detroit, right? And probably for them too. So do I think it's impossible?

I think plus 650 to win the division would be the route to take.

I don't think it's likely, although I wouldn't mind chasing the team whose fans are calling for Tana McKee to jump in there. for Jalen Hurts, right? I mean, that's a real thing.

Yeah, I did wonder at halftime if he just came out for the second half, how the crowd would have reacted, but I don't think they would have been upset. We have three nine and three teams in the NFC.

We have Philly at eight and four, Green Bed 8, 3-1.

San Francis at 8-4.

And then 7-5, 7-5, Tampa, Detroit, 7-6, Carolina. Your team 6-5-1.

10-6-1.

Did you say San Fran was eight? San Francisco. San Francis 9-4.
9-4. Yeah.

10-6-1. Is that

the seven seed, maybe?

Or you have to actually win the division, you think? I think I'm looking at San Francisco. They have nine wins, right?

So, and still with the Titans and home for the Bears and Seahawks and at the Colts. I think they get to 11.
I think the Seahawks get to 11. They have nine.
So then there's one more wild card thing.

I can see San Francisco losing those last three personally. Really? Really? So just tennis? Did you see the Cleveland game closely today? I did.
I know you had Cleveland.

You were very upset with the coach there. What did he do? Well, that was the dumbest thing we saw today and maybe all month and maybe all season.
He's a two-way game. It's a 10-day game.

The weather's horrible. Your offense sucks.

You're on your own 33. It's fourth and one.
You have the wind at your back. The wind's about to change in five minutes.
The Niners have done nothing.

They've put together no long drives the whole game. Just fucking punt the ball.
Punt the ball. Stay up to.
Your defense is awesome. Make your defense make a play.
Try to pin them in their own 15.

And they freaking go for it. I did not think they were going to get it.

They did not get it because they had to do this new thing, this epidemic that we have now with the tush push, not running it with the quarterback.

And it feels like it's a 50% chance it's going to go horribly. How many times does the guy either fumble it or fuck it up? Or like it just.

We went from this play that we were having meetings for to try to figure out we have to stop this. It's ruining football to now.
I don't think it's ever going to work.

The Eagles finally lost on it on Friday. Anyway, that was the dumbest thing I saw today or this month.
That was bad.

I almost think, is it a clause in these coaches' contracts where they get fired for punting on fourth and one, no matter where they are on the field? You had the win. It was a 25-mile an hour win.

Yeah. And your defense allowed, what, 250 yards? Like, it was definitely a winnable game for sure.
It wasn't. Yeah, that was a field position.
Let's not fuck around.

We should try to win this game 11 to 10. Yeah.
But also, San Francisco takes care of, we're talking about their playoff playoff hopes. They kind of just take care of business in those games too.

They do. They, they, they, you know, they always get the special teams play, but the Browns, they played all the hits, gave up a big kick return.
Their punter, punt return guy, he, he muffed one.

They had a kick returner after a touchdown just catch the ball and go out of bounds on his own six. Haven't seen that all season.
So

Stefanski, I'm not positive what this guy brings to the table. I know he won coach of the year, but I know the Browns fans, it's a very polarizing topic with them.

I don't understand anything I watched from that today. But the bigger point is, I know the Niners won convincingly, but I thought the Browns really handed them some stuff.

And I think you can move the ball on them.

I thought

Purdy was good today. I got to give him credit.
I thought he had a good game. He was nifty.
He made some good plays.

And they really like, look, you can love Shador all you want and hope that he's great, but you're going to know how to play him, right? And so he was thrown underneath a lot.

And really the best was him running for five yards and sliding on fourth and 26 to end the game. He's like, I'm good.
Yeah,

gotta stay safe for next week. He wasn't a first, second, third, or fourth-round pick.
Maybe if you look at the NFC, you have to grab somebody's spot.

So, unless you take Philly's spot, and Philly's eight and four, and you're a game and a halfback, yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying.

It's got to be you would need you need either Green Bay or San Francisco to crater.

Um,

I mean, the Browns go at Green Bay, home, Cleveland, home, Green Bay, at San Francisco, home Detroit.

The Browns? San Francisco? I'm sorry, the Bears. Oh, the Bears.
Yeah.

So, yeah, maybe they could go one and four on those. But I, you know, it feels like they're getting better, not worse.
Yeah, I guess statistically, we would have wanted the Eagles to win that game.

It would have increased our playoff chances, right? The Bears just staying at eight wins, but I just didn't have an inmate to root for the Eagles at all. I don't know.
It's funny. Some of these teams.

I don't know if it's less. It's fine.

But some of these teams are getting better as the year goes along because the season is 100 weeks long. Right.

The Bears, who were 22nd in DBOA heading to that game and had a bunch of either or wins and just seemed like this year's horseshoe up the ass team.

They killed the Eagles. They did.
They absolutely bullyballed them, ran the ball down their throats.

Caleb did not play well, I didn't think, but he had a couple good scrambles and he made one big touchdown pass.

Their defense was good enough, but their offensive line, their running game, like it's a team that felt very wintry. It felt like you could see them in January being kind of a problem.

I thought that was an awesome win. I have a few Bears fans in my life, as do you.

And it was the first time that they were like, wow, that was like a real football win and capped off with our guy Ben Johnson just going nuts in the post-game and taking his shirt off.

It's tough when you take your shirt off because where do you go from there? The pants are expected next, right? Like, what's he going to do? Yeah, that would have saved.

I personally would have saved it for wild card, but I get get it. He was, yeah, he was excited.
Also, they pretty jacked too, Ben Johnson. I know.

That goes a little differently if it's Andy Reid, I feel like.

I'd love to see. Maybe Andy Reid's jacked.
Wouldn't that be the most surprising? Add that to your surprising list.

Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right.
They completely bullied them at the line of scrimmage, especially in the late third, early fourth quarter when you thought the Eagles might be able to get back in it.

And then I don't, like, like we said, like Hurts, I don't know what's this guy's legacy? Like, what is he like? He won two Super Bowls for them.

He wasn't a Trent Doper type where it was just like along for the ride. But you would also, you would think that'd be enough to include him in the top five quarterbacks.
And we never put him in there.

It was always been Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, right? I don't know what order, but it's very strange how he's going to be remembered.

There's like a

lack of urgency slash

personality to their offense.

And now that Barkley doesn't look like the Barkley from last year, when you watch it, everything just seems really disjointed.

And you almost want them to go either, you know, up 20 or down 20 for them to actually look like whoever they are. I like when they play with pace.
I don't know, they have all these weapons.

Like, did Goddard play on Friday? I have no idea. And it seemed like he might have been out there.
I don't even know. Like, that guy was a couple years ago.

We were talking about him as one of the best tight ends.

I think a lot of these guys were emotional over the John Madden thing, which was somehow

celebrated on every single game everybody had their own trophy that's good i mean you and i loved madden loved him yeah i i think we're all good

we're all good

how many times can we pay tribute

these guys like what's gonna happen when barkley dies is this what we're gonna do with barkley like is this

Saquon, he did. I think it was like week six.
He died. We haven't.
No, Charles, you're talking about. He died as a fantasy guy.

No, I know. And we did love him.
And I even had a better appreciation of him when I watched the Cowboys documentary, how great those calls were.

But you're giving these trophies to 24-year-olds, 25-year-olds who didn't even know Madden. And they know the game, and that's it.
You know? Yeah, you have to make up your Madden story.

What's your favorite Madden story? I remember one time the big dog and I were in an elevator and he told me to keep my head up.

Jason Garrett pulled out a turkey leg that he claims he has kept frozen since 1993. I'm calling bullshit on that.
Yeah, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I didn't believe this.
I need proof. Unwrap that thing.

Well, so the Bears, who I think none of us believed in, they play at Green Bay next week and have a chance to put down Philly and Philly and then Green Bay and Green Bay next week.

With the way they run the ball, I can't

really knock them out. You got them two out of three weeks, I think, right? It's a shame we don't have the play-in tournament.
Well, I guess we're probably not a shame because it would be terrible.

But if we had the play-in tournament like in the NBA, I would really like your team.

Like, oh, Dallas is a play-in team, but watch out. If they can get in there,

they can beat anybody. I'll enjoy it.
It starts Thursday against Detroit. That's a play-in game.
And then the next four are also playing games. Well, you know what's funny about your team?

And just, I was thinking about it today, watching Josh Allen because I didn't think he was great today. And then in the second half, picked up.
But

isn't doesn't maybe she's just getting older.

Maybe he's taking some hits, but he had that thing going for a couple of years where he seemed like that giant that kid who was too big for like the ninth grade football game right just wreaking havoc and he's just like oh man this isn't fair this guy's too big for the game and he kind of played nfl quarterback like that and i don't feel like he's been as physically imposing this year and then the second half of the game today against the steelers he he turned it up a little bit but this was the year i thought he was going to be the guy like we were going to leave this season like that's the best quarterback in the league i feel like it's open right now it's a little i i i'll make an analogy just for you it's a little like the year when hogan stepped away from wwe and they didn't and they was like ah lex luger and lex luger was the wwf title holder for like 10 months because they didn't really know who to put the belt on i don't know who has the belt for qb right now because mahomes is six and six

yeah

i don't know who is it i mean your guy is playing as well as anybody I think so.

The only thing I'll caution, and we talked about it last week, like the Bills went 6-0 down the stretch two years ago to make the playoffs and that's what put allen right back up there yeah this is a game i felt like pittsburgh could have stayed in there and they but they kept the bills hanging around and then like i just don't get the bills thing like you like pittsburgh as i did because the bills had two offensive linemen out and the bills were laying eggs on the road and then they get they set a record a rushing record for opponents and actusher and hines three rivers whatever 249 yards with two offensive linemen out i don't even know what i watched there.

I think this Pittsburgh team is done. We can talk about the Bills, but I really think they are absolutely done.
Cook was great. And Pittsburgh, this was the second time in three weeks.

The other time was the Chargers game when the quarterback played, just, they had no chance.

And whether he should have played or not, Rodgers, I don't know. You know, he fell in that hand once and then it seemed like he was going to.
leave and come back, but he was a mess the whole game.

Rudolph's not much better. Offensively, they're just impotent.

Wasn't always the case. I thought they're going to be able to run the ball in Buffalo.
Right. And they just couldn't.

Then after the game, Rodgers was taking shots at some of the receivers, but they're 6-6.

And they're in a deathmatch now with Baltimore. And maybe Cincy.

Cincey's two-back with five to go, and they play, they still get to play Baltimore once.

They're at Buffalo. They're on X.

So that's it for them if they lose, right?

So they have to hope Baltimore and Pittsburgh split because Baltimore and Pittsburgh play twice. So Baltimore and Pittsburgh split,

and then both of them go one and two in the other three games, which I think is really conceivable because Pittsburgh's other three are home Miami, at Detroit, at Cleveland.

Baltimore is at Cincinnati, home New England, at Green Bay. And since he just has to run the slate, and they play at Buffalo, home Baltimore, at Miami, home Arizona, home Cleveland, it's doable.
Yeah.

Again, at Buffalo, if they don't win that, this is, that doesn't matter if Pittsburgh Ravens split or what.

But to go back to my Lex Luger thing, Burrow could be the guy that kind of grabs it down the stretch. Like, no, actually, I'm the best quarterback right now, but I don't know who it is.

I thought he was great, Burrow. And then I looked at him.
Did it seem like he was 24 for 46? That's what he was.

No, he had that. He had the swagger, though, which I think when you've had...

Jake Browning and 45-year-old Joe Flacco for 10 weeks. Right.
And then Burrow comes in doing his Joe Burrow stuff. And they only, you know, no Higgins.
It's really just chase.

Even the incompletions, I guess, were ones that they go up for and they just didn't come down with, but everything seemed to be on the money.

And everything seems great when you're going against Lamar, who I think has seven fantasy points per week over the last three weeks. People are losing their minds.

Well, this goes back to the best quarterback thing. Lamar would have been in that too.
And Lamar has looked like, you know, Aaron Brooks in the mid-90s in these games.

He's, so you don't feel like he doesn't move the same way. He's clearly not 100%

not on the same, whatever that offense they run is not, does not fit for whatever his talents are.

The Henry thing is interesting.

He only had 10 carries in that game. I thought they were going to just, you know, bully the Bengals with him and they didn't.
I was trying to watch to see if I thought maybe he lost a step or not.

I couldn't really tell. But his stats aren't the same.
He had a thing where every other game he was over 90 yards and I tried to catch him on this. This was the every other.

And I thought this was, okay, he's going to run it through. And Thursday night, beautiful.
No, you're right. 10 carries.
Like, I don't know what that offense. And yet, like, Fandel loves them.

They're minus 220 to win that division because Pittsburgh is so pathetic. And since he got off to such a late start.
Yeah,

Pittsburgh, I think, kicked this one away. And maybe they weren't that good to begin with.
And I was thinking last year, Pittsburgh died as we hit the last third of the schedule. Remember?

They were like eight and two or something. They went backwards.
This was was really it, right?

This is like when Tomlin, when they're yelling, fire Tomlin, and he says, I sympathize with everyone's frustration. Does that mean when you sympathize, you agree with them that you should be fired?

They have no identity on offense. Rogers, God bless him.
He played with broken, you know, bones in his wrist, but then he ends up looking, his face is a mess. He looks like he bet against himself

on a strip and then didn't pay his Croatian bookie. Like he just got his ass.
It's like James Connon, the gambler. Yeah.
Just got beaten up. And then you got TJ Watt.

Like he has like, I think six games or seven games with no pressures. Like you paid these guys a fortune on defense.
They really, they just have nothing left. I don't like.

They really, really, really blew it with

first not taking Dart.

I think if you do that over again, you take him. But then, look, I don't know if Sanders is good, not good, mediocre, or whatever.

But once we get to the fourth round, that's somebody they probably should have taken. And, you know, Mason Rudolph comes out there.

You just have no faith in anything with that dude um let's take a break and then i have a depressing question for good the bill simmons podcast is brought to you by fan duel hey missouri the wait is finally over fan duel sportsbook live in the show me state right now new customers you can bet five dollars and you get three hundred dollars in bonus bets

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All right, Sal, which fans, which fan base should be the most depressed right now? I'm going to give you Steelers fans,

Ravens fans,

Lions fans,

or Chiefs fans. The case for the Steelers is like, this is done.

There is like no light at the end of the tunnel.

Even if you somehow sneak out the division, what's going to happen? You're going to win multiple playoff games. That's not happening.
And then what does your long-term future look like?

You don't know who your coach is going to be or your QB.

Ravens, you had this first half of the 2020s window with Lamar that you didn't even get to a Super Bowl.

I don't even know if you want to keep the coach if you're them. You went all in on this Derrick Henry move.

Lamar,

where is that heading?

And did you just miss your window? Lions fans, those last two years were your window.

You had all these injuries last year. It didn't happen.
And now you just moved into the back of the pack. And I don't know if you're coming,

you're leapfrogging. You're probably not even making the playoffs.
And then the Chiefs fans, it felt like you were headed for a three-peat. Mahomes was in the GOAT conversation.
You're six and six.

You're two games behind the last wildcard spot. You might miss the playoffs when your guy was healthy the whole year, which has never happened with Brady ever.
Right.

When at any point of when he was actually Brady. I know.
You like throwing that in there. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm going to mention that every time.

So who's the most depressed out of those four? Steelers, Ravens, Lions, Chiefs? This is easy for me. I mean, unless you're like a 25-year-old Steelers fan, you've had history.

You've had, you know, I'm going to count that, right? I'm going to count that for the Ravens. You've seen playoff games.
The Chiefs, forget it. You've won Super Bowls.

If you're saying looking forward, yeah, these teams all kind of might be done, but the Lions, the Lions, because they never got over the hump.

They had the great coach that everybody wanted, Dan Campbell, who I'm not sure is the right fit now anymore.

You know, you had the excuse last year where you had like 20 guys on IR, 16 of them were on defense. Oh, our defense is going to be back.
They were miserable against the Packers, just miserable.

And you got the two fastest guys on the planet, and you can't figure out how to score 30 points a game. You're stuck with like 17 midway through the fourth.

So I think that they're a head scratcher of a team. I'm most disappointed in them because I had money on their futures.
But

yeah, I think, I don't know, which one you go with?

I mean, the Packers are biting more kneecaps than the Lions. I'll tell you that.
The Chiefs fans, at least, they can point to the Super Bowls and you can talk yourself in 100 excuses.

We had Brady seasons like that where the team didn't have it. You just kind of regroup and retool.

Ravens fans is a tough one

because you never really had your moment with Lamar in the playoffs. Yeah.
You know, that's true. You didn't have one postseason.
You're like, well, like even Buffalo.

They got close with Allen where Allen actually,

13 seconds game, Allen came through with his part and then the defense blew it. They had things to point to where they'd be like, well, yeah, yeah, but we didn't win, but we at least had this.

The Ravens, it's just like a kick in the nuts every year in the postseason. And now it looks like they're going to win the division by going eight and nine.
I think that's pretty ignominious.

But I think I agree with you on the Lions fans because they, it felt like a week ago they were the next hot team.

And now it just feels like it's over.

And then on top of it, this Wunderkind offensive coordinator dude they had that sometimes those guys leave and then they suck as head coaches, but it actually seems like he's really good. Right.

And that was a big part of your success, which I don't, there's not a lot of parallels for that, where you had this awesome offense and it was like, well, who, who gets it?

But then you see him in the Bears like doing this with a quarterback that really only completes 47, 48% of his passes. Right.
And he's just kind of figured out how to keep them good.

I think I'd be the most bummed out if I was a Lions fan. Yeah.
I think the the worst move Campbell made this year is admitting that he's calling the plays.

Like, all right, man, you got the best in the world. You're calling the plays.
That should last for more than one week, the success rate.

And then, yeah, you're right. I mean, you lose too many coordinators.
That's the problem. But to me, I actually thought the offense, I didn't think Goff was terrible on Thursday.

I was disappointed in that defense. They just could not get to him.
Like it was ballsy, ballsy moves by LaFleur going for it on fourth and six and pretending to go for it and then calling a timeout.

Like, all right, they're going going to kick here. I'm like, oh my God, they are going for it.
And then they just put the game away. They're like, we don't care.
We're better than you.

Yeah, I was really worried about them without craft, but,

you know, they were getting it done. So to make the playoffs, just to put a bow on this, Ravens are still minus 220 to make the playoffs, which you mentioned.
KC was even two hours ago.

Now in Fando, it's like plus 104. Detroit's plus 120, and the Steelers are now plus 250.

And they were in, I mean, think of the position they were in. What were they? 4-2 or 5-1, whatever they were.
And the Ravens were

one and four with limping around Lamar. Like, they had a three-game lead over them.
You and I needed therapy. They were one and five, and Fandel had them as a slight underdog.

Like, what are we missing here?

Next time we know, just bet on it.

Then you have the Jags minus 450 to make the playoffs, which I think is insane. I looked at their schedule.
I know they have wins, but I still don't trust them. Colts minus 300.
Texans minus 140.

And the Chargers are minus 162. The interesting thing about the Chiefs,

I actually think their odds should be a lot worse to make the playoffs. Yeah.

Because

they lost to Jacksonville, the Chargers, and Buffalo, three of the teams that they would

potentially be in like a two-way tie, three-way tie, four-way tie for the sixth seed, seven seed, whatever.

I don't really see a scenario where they make it unless they run the slate.

And even if they run the slate, is that even going to be enough?

It really might not be. And yeah, like you said, they lose those tiebreakers.
I mean, we have so many elimination games next week. We have Detroit, Dallas.

We have Houston, Casey, which is a night game. Cincinnati will be eliminated if they lose to Buffalo.
It's a lot of fun. Then you have all that AFC South mess ahead of you.

But I think everyone's afraid to bet against the Chiefs, but they know that plus number is insane for them to make the playoffs at this point. It's the way they're playing.

Advanced metrics heading into this week, they were fifth DVOA. Yeah.
They're playing two of the best defenses in their last five, Houston and Denver, but both of those are home.

Denver might not even care at that point.

They'll have the division locked up. They'll only care about one versus two.

Then they have at Tennessee at Vegas, which is two easy wins, but you look at their losses, Sal.

They've lost to the Chargers, Eagles, Jags, Bills, Broncos, and Cowboys.

So six playoff or borderline playoff teams, and they've only beaten Baltimore, Detroit, and Indianapolis. So they're three and six against good teams, which to me is a sign you're not good.

And the one-score games, too. Complete 180 from last year, where I think they went 11-0 in one-score games.
They won.

Oh, I guess the Colts was a one-score game, but aside from that, just loss after loss after loss. As opposed to Houston, who's 7-5,

who didn't have their starting quarterback for three weeks at one point,

They have four losses to the Rams, Tampa, Seattle, and Denver. Not bad.
I mean, those are three of the six best teams in the league and Tampa.

But they have wins against now Baltimore, San Francisco, Jacksonville, Houston, Buffalo, and Indy. So they played 10 playoff teams basically, and they're six and four.

And I thought they had a really good win, which I want to talk about right now with that Indianapolis game. That

once again, that D'Amico Ryans,

he had another game management thing where they're up four. And I don't know.
They were the announcers were like, oh, interesting. He's going for it here.

And it's like, kick a field goal. You go up seven.
You've stopped these guys all game. Daniel Jones can't move.
These guys, oh, the analytics say this. It's like, read the game sometimes.

You go up seven. You're probably winning the game.
I don't think the Colts are going all the way down the field. All of a sudden, they're on their heels, but they ended up.

They ended up winning that one. But what do you, did you watch that whole game? Because I thought that was the most fascinating game.
You're going to laugh at me.

I know you're you're all over Houston and you saw Houston's promising ending before a lot of us, but I Indy was my best bet. Like, I thought,

did you know Jones was that compromised, though? Yeah, I thought he was, but I'm like, and then I looked at like Jonathan Taylor's had amazing games against Houston.

He had like a 188-yard game like last year against them. Is it four over one? Like, that's it.
They're just going to figure out the game plan.

Although I didn't think it would be that Daniel Jones couldn't take off once ever.

I might have gone against it that way. So you had the better team.
I got it wrong. Sauce being out early might have made things different.
That wasn't great.

But, and also, it might have been different if the refs recognized what a missed extra point looked like.

Our friend Adam Carolla is right. Just extend the post to the moon.
Who cares? It's fine. Send some laser beam or something.
There's got to be some way to improve that.

So Houston had they're definitely not the same without a running quarterback. Indy had the ball for 25 minutes.
They're three for 10

on third down.

Houston, to close the game out, they have a third and one and a fourth and one.

And they do the thing where they just run the ball up the middle, even though they can't really run the ball when you know they're going to actually run the ball.

But then they still snuck the game out. I think Houston's good.

Yeah. Like when I think about that, I'm in that mode now, thinking of the Pats, playoff opponents.
Like Houston's a nightmare matchup. Their defense is

that Will Anderson is in the running for best defensive player I've watched week to week this year. Definitely.
You know who's actually in there is Crosby. Crosby's unbelievable in these Raider games.

He's got 10 unbelievable plays during these, and nobody else on his team is good. But

I'm really afraid of that defense. And they can run the ball just enough.
Collins is good.

Stroud, I'm not a huge fan of, but he'll make a play every once in a while. And really, their biggest thing that would worry me if I was a a Texans fan is the game management stuff.

But I think they're better than seven and five. I think if you're the Chiefs this week, would you rather play Houston, Jacksonville, or Indianapolis? I think for sure.

That's my third choice. I don't know.
Even though they lost to Jacksonville, definitely Jacksonville, definitely the Colts who they beat, whatever.

Houston, you don't want to go up and take chances against that defense right now. Well, it's funny when we talk.
before the year and we're figuring out the futures, which

I don't think we did that well on the 32 over-unders, but I think our locks were pretty good this year. Do you want to know what we are right now?

We're probably somewhere around 500 or a little better, I would guess. Chris Haynes, a good guy, keeps track for us, and that's all he does.

He has no job other than to keep track of these stats for us. Yeah, yeah, we're not going to pay him or anything.
But you're six and six. I'm seven and five.

We both had New England over, Seattle over, Washington under, Mini under. You had Cincy under, and Chicago over.

I had Casey and Baltimore under and Jackson. We hit Denver today, right? Denver was nine and a half.
Oh, okay. So that just went final, right? Yeah.
So that one, we both had that. Yep.

But I think of the ones that we liked the most, I think we were on the right side with those. Yeah.
Denver, Patriots. But the one, the division that we just.
Seattle. Yep.
Yeah.

Seattle was another one.

Washington under.

I like Chicago.

The division we couldn't figure out was that AFC South. Right.
It was like,

I don't want to take Houston. Please tell me what other team to take.
We hated the other teams. You kind of like Jacksonville.
Yeah, that's who I had to win it. I don't know.

I want to give them more credit than we normally do, but they also have the benefit of having the worst team of maybe of the decade in that division. It's just an automatic two wins against Tennessee.

Right. I mean, good God.
Well, 25-3. Was that the final today?

It was, they took a lead early, which you have to do.

And then it just unfolded like every Tennessee game this year, except Tennessee never had like the two late touchdowns to make the score respectable. Who, um,

if I gave you Cowboy fans, Panther fans, or Bengals fans, who should be the most irrationally excited now out of those three?

Cowboys, Panthers, or Bengals? Irrationally excited means the door is going to get slammed on their fingers. Just out of your mind tomorrow morning,

they're at work. All they're talking about is let it be Panthers.
Let it be the Rams. I think it's Panthers.
Yeah, let them think they have a chance. That's fine.

10 and a half point underdogs today at home.

You had the Rams in a couple of parts. Yeah, it's funny.
You pointed it out immediately, like after the first staff. You spit your profile.
You're like, uh-oh, the Rams. I know.
I'm pretty.

You were in college football, boxing. There was some NBA.
They just spit your profile and throw it there.

You said, say goodbye to Sal's three-team teasers as soon as Stafford threw that first interception. He didn't look good early, but that did.
That

defense was soft. That was the thing.
And I do, we believe in trap games. Like it's, you know, not enough to skip a three-team teaser with them.
But

they went from Seattle and Tampa at home, big wins to going out east. We saw the Chargers do this in Jacksonville.
They got smoked. We should look for this.
West Coast team's going east.

I don't think it's paying off. But Bryce with three touchdown passes and like 164 yards rushing.
They've out-physical the Rams. It reminded me of what Chicago did with Philly the other day.

Bryce was legitimately solid in that game, and he's been up and down, and there's been referendums on him all year on whether they should extend him. Can he actually be the quarterback?

They're just the zigzag team.

They're like, we always talk about 70s heavyweights when we talk about these, how we think of these teams. They're like the Ken Norton.

They might get knocked out. They might knock somebody out.
You just don't know.

Week to week, I have no idea what to expect with them. You catch them on the right week.
They're pounding the ball with the running game. Bryce is running around.
McMillan looks like that.

Might have been a really good pick for them. Right.
I was a little nervous about it, but apparently that was the right one. But yeah, there's seven and their last eight.
It just zigzags.

It makes no sense that it wins and losses. It really doesn't.
But I, you know, I say irrationally because they're plus 460 to win the division. I think plus 4.10 to make the playoffs.

They're four left. They're two against Tampa at New Orleans and versus Seattle.
So

you expect them to sweep Tampa?

I don't think it's in the cards there.

So their best wins,

they beat Dallas, Green Bay, and the Rams. Ah, Jesus.

They lost to New England, Buffalo, and the Niners.

They were 27th at DBOA heading into today. I mean, that was the biggest upset of the season, I think.

There were other bigger point spread ones.

We had like a 13.5.

What was the biggest one this year? Who was it? It was a bigger point spread. Buffalo lose to Miami, Buffalo.
Buffalo, Miami, I think, might have been bigger.

But I thought this was the most important upset. It changed the NFC.
It knocked the Rams down. Now all these teams have a chance for the one seed.

It kept the NFC South interesting because I assume Tampa is going to beat New Orleans next week. Although, Shuck looked good today.

Did you see that game? He did. I really didn't see much of it.
I bet him to throw an interception. He did.
He did in that game. And then I just turned it aside.

I know it was a bad beat. I know they had the two-point conversion run back.
That was bad. Carolina just has to stay within a game of Tampa because they play in week 16 and week 18.
Yeah.

So, and then Tampa has Miami and week 17 at Miami, which is no longer an easy game. Nothing.

Miami's five and seven, though.

They're very weird. Like, you almost immediately knew that's how that game was going to go.
Like, they were going to let Arizona back into it.

And I guess the best thing that we could say about him is like Bucky Irving's back, right? So maybe the offense picks up, but Baker does look like God. Godwin was back, too.

Supposedly McMillan's coming back. Baker didn't look 100% 100% to me, but whatever.
Stafford's MVP case got a little wobbly today.

The Panthers, we were ready to cross them off.

Can't cross them off.

41

five teams next week. It's going to be a cross-off.
Yeah, next week's a cross-off

by some new picks.

I wrote down in my notes for Tampa, I've never seen anyone try harder to host the Shakies game than Tampa.

Even today with Arizona, they were just testing. They were like, we can't beat them too convincingly.
We got to let them hang around. What was that? 2017 final.
It's so funny.

I was thinking that about Houston. I wrote the same thing down.
I was like, no one's still in our Shakies game, not just yet, because they were usually the home team. They were the Matt Shaws.

It might be too entertaining for the Shakies game. Yeah, they might be.
Their defense is fun. One thing with the Jags, they got banged up today.

They lost their left tackle, concussed. So that means he's probably almost definitely not playing next week.
Parker Washta got hurt. I think they're down like five or six starters now.

So even though their odds are pretty good for the playoffs, I'm still a little dubious. They're at Indianapolis.

They're playing the Jets, who've been good now for five weeks for a bad team at Denver, at Indy home, Tennessee.

If I had to pick with those odds, like a team to short, I think I would pick the Jags and the Colts would be second.

Because I thought Dimes could have moved today. Did you say 450 for the playoffs for Jags? Yeah, they were minus 450.
480, I'm saying. Wow.
That's wow. Yeah, that's high.

That's. And then the other one is the Chargers.
Herbert broke his left hand today, but apparently he's going to play next week. He wants, so he gets the extra day.
Yeah. Yeah.

It doesn't bode well for these guys playing with busted up bones like Daniel Jones and Aaron Rodgers, but

he is a gamer, Herbert. I had to watch that entire game, as did you, I'm sure, because there's only three

late games. Granted, we had three Thanksgiving games and a Friday game and then a Sunday night game.
Yeah.

But it meant that we had to watch Chargers Raiders and they fired their offensive coordinator last week. Right.

Added a new one. I didn't really notice any difference.
It just seemed like when in doubt, just try to throw it to Brock Bowers and hope he catches it.

The Chargers, the only interesting thing out of that game for me is just Kamani Vidal

as... a fantasy football playoffs just wild card.
Who was it last year? Was it Chubba Chuba Hubbard? Chuba Hubbard, sure. Yeah.
He was the wild card last year.

It feels like Bidow is going to be the guy. Yeah, he's like,

man, it's Jameer Gibbs, I think, at this point, right? Yeah, I think he's won that job. Hampton had a setback, so

that could be the one. And then

we didn't talk about Brosmer.

Brosmer almost went full the loom.

In the four turnovers. He was so close.

I think, you know, I like him and I like these guys coming on. And I did research on him and his girlfriend.
And they met and kind of like, oh, this is interesting.

But it's like a drunk rich dude showing up at a poker game who play and he plays recklessly. And you know him from the start.
You're like, yeah, come on. Just sit down.
Come on. Sit down.

Let's take your money.

Here's my friend Damon Jones.

Can you read the back of these cards? Good.

Neither can I. That pick six was magical.
That was just the play of the year.

Was there a better play this year? I don't know. That was really great.
And you know, you talk about like, oh, they used all the good games for Thursday and Friday.

That pick six made the whole Sunday worthwhile. And I think we saw like four of the best catches we'll ever see today.

Just like Bowers and Traylon Burks and Nakua, and even the interception that the Chargers made on the Geno the first time. Well, I had

I was in a fantasy league that I truly care about, our knockout league, which I haven't won since 2007. And the the website has a list of all the champions and 2007 is like there's now people who can

can serve in the military who are born after i last won like it's really embarrassing you've done a lot you've made thousands of dollars since 2007 it's a long time yeah well and i had bad luck this year because i lost evans and tyreek but i i was kind of crawling my way back in for a playoff spot and i really needed the seahawks defense and myers

today in these late games oh my God. So every time Brosmer is going back to pass the mic, throw us one, throw us one.
And he did.

I got a pick six. I got all these sacks.
The Seahawks defense in our league had 29 points.

We just have a normal scoring league. Myers and the Seahawks must have had 50 for you.
Yeah, it had 48 points. Myers had 19 points.
That's good. The Seahawks defense had 29.

And I beat our friend the T-Man, the defending champ, who I think is now out. And he's out because the Seahawks defensive kicker had 48 points.
Right. I think he's the most.

See, I'm in the mode where, like, I think a shutout should be like 20 points. There's like five shutouts a year.
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you.

They're just too many bad quarterbacks, though, to kind of reward it. Is the other thing though? I mean, you get a Brosmer in there.
It's just

a gift, but they're your regular defense anyway, right? It's not like you picked them up. Right.
Well,

there was an exciting moment at the end. They punted the Seahawks.
It's 26-0 with like a minute left. And they punted and they downed it on the two.

And I was like, come on, just

let Prosper. Let him cut it one more time.

He was really bad. They're the first team to have two quarterbacks throw a pick six in their first start in the same year.
Is that true? That's very good. Yep.
JJ.

I was waiting for an hour for the cut of Justin Jefferson sitting sadly by himself. And they finally gave it.
It was a new one. He wasn't even on a bench.

He was like sitting in the Gatorade buckets with his helmet off, just trying to figure out,

just trying to deconstruct what's happened to his life. I felt bad for him.

I think he's got to fake a calf strain. He didn't speak for the first time since 2022 after the game, they said.

Yeah, because he could actually get really hurt with some of these passes that these guys throw because they're sailing them high right into traffic. But I think calf strain,

what are they going to do? Like, calf strain seems like the injury you would fake.

Sure. Like, no, not that because then everyone's so afraid of the Achilles tear.

Okay, so we have we're new guest alliance, unless there's anything else you want to hit.

I'm trying to think

because we can hit the other stuff with

real quick with the Jets thing, like the Jets beating Atlanta. And, you know, I just

root for your team. Just root for your team.
It's good when your team wins. I mean, you could be a tank tool.
I know you're a tank tool in the NBA, but just root for your team.

Don't worry about these dumb draft picks. Tom Brady was a six-round pick.
The Mavs got the number one pick last year in hoops. Tanking doesn't really work.

Once in a while, you'll get a Wemby, but in general, pull for your freaking team. Stop rooting for faceless draft picks, right? You got 50,000 fans risking pneumonia at MetLife.

You root for your team to do good. Aaron Glenn gives a game ball to Nick Folk, who he was a teammate of with Dallas.
Ty Taylor's going nuts. Root for your damn team.
Don't worry about the draft picks.

I'm sick of it, Simmons. Don't you clap.
You do the same thing. You're a tank tool.
I would have rooted for the Jets this year because there's no consensus number one pick. Who am I rooting for?

Last year was different.

Well, and I think two years ago was different too. Last year, Cooper Flag was consensus, right? And the same for the football.
No, I get it.

I'm just saying, like, it doesn't always work your way anyway. Whatever.

Just root for your team.

Listen, we're never going to agree on this. I respect your position.

This cellar dweller positioning bullshit. You're a tank tool, Simmons.
If you want to tank, I have a suggestion. Hire Raheem Morris.
He is now 33 and 55.

There's only three coaches in the history of football who've done worse with 55 losses.

Romeo Crudell was 32 and 63. Walt Kiesling was 30 and 55.

And Joe Bugle was 25 and 56. He is in the Mount Rushmore

of terrible 55 losses and overcoaches.

There's no one who's labeled the tanker, right? We haven't had a coach that we've labeled. There should be a tank.
We have a clapper. We have a, you know, the DPS.

Well, the sad thing is they can't tank because the Rams have their pick, which is like the stealth version of OKC having the Mavericks pick.

You see what I mean? You see what I mean? Thinking about all this stuff all the time. Just go out.
I'd be thinking about it if I was a Rams fan. That might be like the fifth pick.

Listen, it's the same shit every week. They do dumb stuff.
They have special teams, fuck ups. Today they had another one.
Like, they always shoot themselves in the foot.

If it's a close game at the end, you know they're going to blow it. And,

you know, they're all in with Pennex and Cousins. And they have no pick next year.
And they're, what are they, four and eight now?

Three and nine? Like something terrible? Four. Well, that's the other thing.

The graphics, the Fox and CBS, they have to stop with this. When they do the playoff picture, they'll still have in the hunt.
Like in the hunt.

Atlanta, four and eight. Like

San Francisco is a 10. Are they hunting?

What do you hunt? Yeah, and they're in the hunt, like, like I'm in the hunt for Michelle Pfeiffer.

You know, they're not. They're garbage cans.
Give me a break. Yeah, they're not in the hunt.
Leave the graphics guy alone.

We're going to take a break and then talk about a pretty awesome

week 14 that includes Bears, Packers, Steelers, Ravens, Colts, Jags, all for first place.

Cowboys, Lions on Thursday night football, and Texans, Chiefs on Sunday night. Bills, Bengals.
It's all good. It's all coming next.
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All right, Sal. Guess the Lions.
You won last week. I'm still winning for the season.
I'm up a couple games. You're like the Cowboys.

You have a puncher's chance. Let's do it.
And speaking of the Cowboys, your team is playing

on Thursday night. Yeah.
Lions Cowboys.

this is probably the best Thursday night game we've had for the Stakes.

We've had good Thursday night matchups. This one's a great one.
Detroit roller coaster ride with Frank Ragnow, who's going to come back to be their center. And the Lions was like, oh, Ragnow's back.

And then he failed his physical.

So now they have to look at the other center and be like, no, no, we still love you, though. Right.
You're going to do great. Right.
Right. Exactly.
Yeah. We're keeping you around.
Yeah.

I was thinking about that and like how I'm like, oh my God, that's a good, that's a smart thing to do. Sit out three quarters of the year and come back for when it matters.

And then he failed. I mean, I'd hate to say someone's there.
It's a fake diagnosis, even though we just did that about Justin Jefferson. But

you think the league is just like, no, no, no, no, we're not doing this anymore. Come on.

Well, it hurts my Aaron Donald case for Aaron Donald coming back in like week 16, just being like, hey, guys, I'm ready.

The Lions are going to be favored. It's either going to be two and a half or three.

And I'm going to say Lions in Detroit favored by two and a half. Okay, good.
That's what I said. It is three.

Neither one's fair, I think.

We did ringer 107 on a Tuesday, and I loved the Cowboys against the Chiefs, and we ended up parlaying it with the Eagles' money line

as a pick instead of just taking the points. And I have a lot of regrets.

Same kind of thing, three points,

although they were home. Yeah, I don't know.

The one that scares me, I actually think we have the better team right now, but Dan Campbell hates us so much. He really does.
Just despises the Cowboys. Maybe it doesn't matter.

I think with these Thursday night games, we just have to remind ourselves over and over again that they don't make sense and they're not an accurate reflection of what would happen on a normal Sunday.

Right. So you just got to think of that.
Like there's a chance where Pickens has 230 yards receiving.

There's a scenario of this game where Gibbs is 15 for 220 and then three for 90 receiving and just has like 40 fantasy points. There's a scenario where Goff just sucks and has the Goff face.

I'm ready for anything.

I can't wait. It's going to be a great game.

So it's a loser-leaves town match. For sure.

No question, right? If the Lions lose, I think they're done. Well, they can't catch Detroit, Green Bay.

Like now, now they, well, I mean, it wouldn't be a tiebreaker anyway because they have a tie, an actual tie, Green Bay. But no,

they can't lose for a while. They're in trouble.
Well, can we safely say nine wins, nine wins, nine wins, eight wins, eight, three and one, nine wins,

NFC South? 11 wins is the entry point for a wildcard spot. Oh, wow.

Right?

Not all three, I don't think. I think all three will have that.

I got Chicago at nine and three. I got Seattle at 9-3.

And I have

Green Bay at 8-3-1. And San Francisco at 9-4.

It's going to be 11 weeks.

I guess you're right. Yeah, I've been saying it all.
I just hadn't heard it like that. I just didn't think.
I wasn't sure Detroit was even going to get to 10. Cowboys at Rams.

Steelers at Vikings at Bears. It's going to be tough.
Yeah,

maybe it's not an official loser-leaves town match because six losses can still get you there. Sounds better.
We'll sell more tickets that way if we call that.

Maybe we'll make it.

What was the match after the first match in the trilogy? WWE in the 80s. Their steel cage was the third match.
First match was normal. Oh, like a Texas death match.
Yeah, yeah.

This is like a Texas death match. Yeah.
No count out, no disqualification.

Anything goes.

A lot of rumors that John Cena might be on the BS podcast this week. Is that right? Yeah, I've never had him.
Yeah. It's a rumor.

See, I don't know if you you would put that out there if it wasn't going to happen. Heavy rumors.
Heavy rumors. Okay.
All right. Kayfe

might be.

Look at that.

Sunday Marquee, a lot of good choices. Yeah.

But I think it's Packers Bears for the

NF

NFC North,

the history of the two teams. The fact that the Bears are actually like

kind of beloved in Chicago after that Eagles win.

This might be an NFC title game. Who the fuck knows?

It's in Lambeau,

and I think this is my favorite game. And I'm putting it right in the Vegas zone.
It's in Green Bay. I have Packers minus five and a half.
Oh, wow. You nailed it.
I said four and a half.

Also, Vegas zone, but it is five and a half. Good job by the way.
So where does that end?

I think that gets to six.

What did the Eagles line do during the week? That ended at seven, right?

Straight seven. Yeah, it went up for a second.
Yeah, I think if anything, it goes up. I think it ends up at six.
I have a request for these two teams, and you could join me in this.

Can we have a memorable game? Like, this is supposed to be the greatest rivalry in sports or top four. I saw a podcast like Al Michaels and

Costas were talking about the best rivalries. And, oh, yes, this has to be it.
I can't remember two great games out of it.

I know they played 200 times Costas and Michael said Packers Bears was a great rivalry that was a famous rivalry they've had no games it was the Red Sox Yankees I think they agreed on Red Sox Yankees Carolina Duke

Packers Bears and what would the other one be Packers Bears I'm spacing on the easy one

the problem is the NFL has

it's it's changes in like

half decade cycles depending on who the quarterbacks are it's not like when we were kids.

Yep. Go ahead.

But when we were kids, there were like real rivalries and they never changed. It didn't really matter who the quarterbacks were.
Now I feel like it just kind of moves around.

What's your favorite Packer Bear game? I think there was, I think the Monday night game where the guy jumped out of the stance to catch an extra point was a Packers Bear game.

Otherwise, I have no, and I know they made it to the NFC championship once. It was Cutler and he was hurt.

Can't be the best rivalry. Rogers shilling the crowd.
I remember that. Right.
There was a Brett Favre one. Was that who he played after his dad died?

See, I don't even know.

Was on the Vikings? I don't know.

Yeah. I don't know if it could be best rivalry.
It has to be memorable games. It can't just be Army, Navy.
God bless.

I still think the Bears have been good enough over the course of the last 50 years.

50 years? That's a lot. That's 100 games.

When we were kids and we'd only get either two or three games, like the Bears were, I never got to see Walter payton i'd barely even unless it was a highlight i never even knew what he did that's true he wasn't on tv for eight years of my life yeah

um

three watchables and they're all good ones colts at jacksonville

i think this is gonna i have the colts favorite i think this ends up at three but i i went lower than that i have colts minus two and a half at jacksonville damn i went the wrong way i had the jags minus one it's uh It's in the tic-tac zone.

They do have the Colts favor by one and a half, so you get it.

The Jags are banged up. This left tackle, if they're not going to be able to block, I do think the Colts could pressure him.
I guess so. We can't bet this, right?

One of those ringers. I don't like what I saw from Dimes.
No, nothing. Just stay away from this.

And Lawrence, even when they're playing Tennessee and they're inside the 10, I just feel like he's going to throw a pick. Right.
It's like surprising when he completes a touchdown.

Is this two in a row for the Jags? This, they're not going to win. I'm going to put a hat-trick together.
Wow, this has to be one of the biggest home games I've ever had, right? Yeah,

yeah, no doubt. Ravens, uh, home for the Steelers.

I put this in the Vegas zone.

Um, I have the Ravens by four and a half. Okay, I add that too.
It is six and a half. Oh,

And I like them. I like them on a teaser.

The Ravens or the Steelers? The Ravens. I'm going to do it again.
I'm going to do it again, Bill. Will Lamar have another 10 days since that Thursday night game?

You might need 100, but yeah, a 10 is good enough.

What would be the most shocking firing over the next 14 days that you would actually believe?

Could I talk you into whoever loses this game, the coach gets dismissed after the game as a possibility? No, they can't do that. You sure? Well, the Steelers don't do that.

They don't even fire coaches, let alone the middle of the year. Or it's announced he's leaving at the end of the year.
Yeah, yeah. These are like two coaches that

I can't say the fan bases are enthralled. Oh, that's rough.
Maybe you firing House. Was you counting that for giving you bad 107 picks?

House had a good one last week. He saved his job he had the packers packers yeah yeah pushed the packers hard um

bills

by the way i did watch the entire sunday pregame show today i know house has this new tick that i hesitate to bring up but i i really enjoy it

house get when you know it's a it's in a four box if he gets really excited about a topic somebody else is talking about, he starts like

rocking.

He starts like doing this in his seat. Like he can't wait to talk.
He's like a little kid. I really enjoyed the Sunday marquee.

Available on 29 FanDoll channels

across America. Bless us.

The ringer YouTube show. We gave out winners left and right.
No, that wasn't, that's not a tick. That's,

we had him sit on a custom-made toilet. He's still unloading some things.
Let's go to the bathroom. Yeah, it's Thanksgiving.
It's rough. It's a rough weekend.
It's great.

You think like playing poker with house, he gets a card he likes. He just starts like moving around in his chair.

This is a great game. I almost put this in the Sunday marquee.
Bills Bengals

in Buffalo. And Joe Burrow, it's just great to have him back.
We needed all the fun quarterbacks we could get. I put this in the Vegas zone.
Bills minus five and a half. Oh, come on.

I wanted to steal this from you. I had five and a half also.
That's what it is. Ooh.

It's exactly five and a half. So we have two Vegas zone games already.
You think that's too high? There's no way you would take the Bills under any circumstances.

I would probably do a version of what I did with the Texans today.

The Bengals tease up over the double-digit number to 11.5,

10.5, somewhere in there, and then move the over down because I think this game won points. I don't think you can make the over high enough for this game.
They look so good, Cincinnati.

They looked really good. They had it all together.
I thought he had turned over.

I thought he was moving great. Yeah.

Because I thought they would be like a little, oh, he can't. didn't matter whatever they shot him up with kudos to the doctor fairly watchables um

i can't believe i put this in the fairly watchables but i'll explain after seahawks at atlanta oh no

i'll make the case after we do the pick

i have the seahawks favored by four in atlanta oh wow

That you really think it's that watchable? I said seven and a half. It's eight and a half.
Ooh. Okay.

Let me make sure.

Yeah, eight and a half. Man.

I was either dead on or within a half point, and then I missed that one, but four and a half points.

I thought I was watchable Seahawks defense against Kirk Cousins.

Oh, I see. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Are you going to win your last regular season fantasy game of the year walking away? I'm just excited for that matchup for a variety of reasons.

I said this morning the Falcons should win a Lifetime Achievement Award for fishy lines.

Just give it to them. Every single doesn't matter.
Give them an actual fishing ride. Pennsylvania.
Yeah, you're right. Desmond Ritter, who cares?

This has trap game written all over it. Yeah.

Next one, fairly watchable. Is Buck Saints?

The only reason I say this is because I think the Saints are like pretty watchable as a bad team. They can move the ball.
I don't mind watching the Saints.

Exactly.

I have the Bucks by eight and a half over the Saints Saints in Tampa. It's seven and a half.

I have that.

All right, we're tied. Seven and a half, a little low.

And then Rams Cardinals, fairly watchable.

I don't understand the brissette thing. He was so terrible for the Patriots last year.

He was really awful. And now you watch him and he's pretty confident.
And then I remembered that our offensive line was like an F minus, minus, minus. Right.

So maybe if he has like a decent offensive line, it's okay. He found a home.
Wilson's good. McBride's great, right? Yeah.
He's like a little pro.

Harrison, I don't know, not completely sold on his work ethic. I think he had another injury today, but

he'll be good too.

Rams in Arizona.

I have them favored by eight and a half. All right.
I get this. It is.
Oh, no. We split it.
I had eight. It's seven and a half.
I get it. You get it.
Yeah. Good, good, good.

Poop facto.

You see so many teasers going through your head that you don't want to talk about right now.

We have a couple teams on by, by the way, if you're wondering, the list of four teams, including my team. Poop Fecta, Browns, Titans in Cleveland.

This is awful, and I can't wait to bet on it.

I have Browns in the Vegas zone, minus five and a half. No,

I said three, and it's three and a half. Oh, that's too low.
You think so? Yeah, I I think the Browns' defense is good.

They just can't fall behind. Once they're behind by like 10, it's the game's over.
You don't think there's any pride? Like Cam Ward, like F all these people who are putting Shador ahead of me.

You know, I was the first pick. I mean, he was the first pick.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm going to show him why, kind of thing.

They do suck, though. They are so bad.

Vikings

home for the Washington Commanders.

I would have said three seven hours ago, but I'm dropping that to two and a half Minnesota favored. Oh, I said Washington by one.
I think it's Washington by one and a half. Let's see.
Oh. Yeah.

I mean, I think.

Wow, I went in a tailspin. He should be back, Jaden Daniels, right?

Really? Wasn't it going to be close this week? Why are you bringing him back when you're three and nine? Sit his ass down. Listen, I like the way they played.

I need them to win.

It's the Cowboys. Like, they played Guddy.
They played the Eagles twice, so I need them to be tough. What I don't need is, did you hear Collinsworth and Torico pronounce Mariota's name? Mariota?

Mariota. Mariota.

For three, I had to turn it off for like a half hour. I couldn't listen to the sound.
I'm like, what is this? This is like they're showing off for their eighth grade Spanish teacher.

He's been Mariota for 12 years in college and everything. Mariota.
And then sometimes they'd catch themselves and they'd go back to however everyone else says it.

I didn't understand it at all. I was trying to ignore it, but then they kept doing it.
Yeah. So it's Washington favored by one and a half in Minnesota.
Right.

Jeez. Well, it's Frosner again, right?

He's going to give points, that guy?

I don't think. I mean, Washton's three and nine.
They're going to be favored on the road. It's ridiculous.

Brosner could play 100 games and he won't win one. I don't know.
I think that's fair.

What did you make of the inverted Bo Nick's performance today where instead of being bad,

instead of being the boot and rally Bo,

he actually sucked you into thinking he was going to be good for all three hours and then all of a sudden was booting in the fourth quarter, but then rallied in the OT. Right.

I didn't know what to make of it. I like it.
I mean, I think I had Washington as an upset and I took the points. So that was

going to be a miserable way to lose. But he threw his interception.
He got it out there, right? What was that? Third quarter? Yeah. When he threw it right to the guy on the other team.
Yeah.

But

yeah, we needed our friend Hench to win this week to stay alive. And he had no targets with, what's his name? Can't forget.
14.

You got knocked out of our guillotine league. I know.
I got knocked out. Stinks.

So now there's only four left, right? You made the final left. Lewis has 10 bucks left.
I have four bucks left. The other two teams have zero bucks left.

So Lewis can just cherry pick. He can go

five bucks on JSN. So he gets him.
So we'd have, he could basically get the top two guys you have, just shoot his wad.

Try to do it that way. I love the guillotine.
That's the best. I'm going to miss it.
I got to get. I wonder if there's a three-week guillotine.
90% of it.

Dolphins at the Jets.

Yep.

I went between Dolphins minus three and Dolphins minus three and a half back and forth for a solid 20 seconds. And landed.

One of those is exactly right. We landed at Dolphins minus three and a half.
Oh, I said two and a half. It is three.
So we tie.

So Jets have won three of their last five, and the other two, they kind of hung around for a while.

Yeah.

Ty Taylor's the guy, though. I feel like they have life with that guy, right? Yeah.
That offense, at least. It fools you in the small TV

when you're not really concentrating. You're like, man, Fields looks pretty good because you can't really see the numbers.
It's like, oh, that's Ty Taylor.

Yeah, no, they're moving too fast down the field to be Fields.

That pass actually went to his receiver.

Broncos

are at Las Vegas, a truly terrible team.

And

I have the Broncos favored by eight and a half.

I said seven, and it's seven and a half. So I get that one.

Like this.

What's the score? Are you winning? You can't win this. One, two, three, four, five, six.

10 to 6.

You're winning 10 to 6.

Yeah. Jesus.
I'm back.

I'm the Cowboys. This is tough.
You're the Cowboys. I wouldn't take 10.
This is the 10-7 game, right? From a few Thursdays ago.

It's going to be really hard not to throw the Broncos

money line into five different bets.

And they'll have fans and everything else. Yeah.
Stupid. Sunday Night Chiefs

home for the Texans.

Dare I say a must-win game for the Chiefs? Great game.

And maybe also for the Texans. I mean, this really might be the loser-leaves town match.
I don't think either team could lose this. I think it is.
I think this is. That night.

We're going live after this. Yeah, we're going live.
Next week, we'll go live on YouTube. I have Chiefs minus three.

You're going to get it. I said four.

It was four and a half. It went to three and a half.

Well, I guess we split it. We split that.
We split it. It doesn't matter.

Monday night.

I think that's a really bad.

Yeah.

That's a bad spot for the Chiefs.

I don't like that defense. They all are.
That defense against the, you know, just hitting the shit out of Kelsey,

coming at Mahomes.

I don't like. Pussy, they can't really run the ball.
I don't like that spot. I mean, I'm sure they'd probably rather play almost every other team, honestly.

Monday night, Eagles Chargers in Los Angeles.

60% Philly fans there. Although, if you're a Philly fan who lives in L.A., would you even want to go to that game? I guess you want to be around other unhappy people.
I don't know.

Yeah, you just want to yell just to yell at your own team. Yeah, you have to.
Start a couple fights in the concourse after. Yeah, just

for Tanner McKee and then get out of there. I have the Eagles favored by minus two and a half.
Yeah, you're going to get this. I went low.
I said one and a half. It is three.

All right. That's a win for the good guys.

So we're eight and six for the season? Eight, six. You still have the lead.
Okay. All right.
I'll take that. I'll take that.
I got to look at my schedule the rest of the way.

Okay. What a game.
Seven great games. Seven meaningful and important and playoff-worthy games out of the 14.
Pretty good. Today's parent corner is presented by Uber Eats.

Uber Eats that I used twice today. Let's be real.
Would it be game day without a spread of your favorite foods? Pizza, burgers, burritos, you name it.

Uber Eats is here to deliver it to you all season long. Or in my case, today,

nice salad with a bunch of vegetables in it. I got my own salad.
My way, we custom-made our salads. That came.
That was really good. Yeah.
You could eat that in the sauna?

No, I didn't eat the salad in the sauna. All right.
All right. Yeah.
Did wear my t-shirt in the sauna today?

What do you have for parameters? Someone was asking me why you wear the t-shirt. It's one thing if you want to wipe your face with the t-shirt.

If it's okay, you like the way the cloth feels, but why are you wearing it in the sauna?

Why do you just bring it with you? Put on your website. I just think it's like, first of all, you always have to think, like, if I, if I'm going to die,

how do I want to be found? Like, sauna is a place you could die.

At least I want to have a t-shirt if I'm slumped over. I don't want to be like naked from the waist up.
Oh, I see. But then if

somebody comes in, they don't realize I'm there. Like, who knows? All right.
Okay. So it kills a couple birds there.
Yeah, I like wiping my face with a t-shirt. I'm not defending it.
I'm not.

I'm going to fully admit it's probably pretty weird. I'm proud of you.
What do you have for Parent Corner?

All right. So, yeah, no, it's my favorite weekend.

I'm sure you feel the same way. Everybody's home, football.
eating, just, and then Friday might even be better than Thursday if you have nothing to do, just veg out, right? And you don't have people.

But anyway, we're watching this Cowboys game. And I think I told you a couple of weeks ago, I found out from my barber who cuts everybody's hair in the family that

Harrison, my youngest, is becoming a Cowboys fan. And I went and told him, I was like, you can't do this.
I don't want this for you. You know, it's like he found like dad's crack vial or something.

I'm like, I don't want you anywhere near this shit. Please don't do it.
He's like, no, no, no. I watched the documentary with you.
I think I like them. I like the history.
I like this.

And I'm like, don't do it.

Fast forward to Thanksgiving, Chiefs, Cowboys. We're sitting down.
He's rooting for Dallas. First touchdown, Rashid Rice, and he cheers.
And I was like,

what the hell is that about? And he's like, well, I have him on my fantasy team. I'm like, you're out.
That's it. You can't do that.
You're not doing that. He's like, what? I need this.

I'm six and six or whatever. I have to, well, like, I don't care.
You don't root. You at least don't.
audibly root for the other team. And Archie's yelling at him.
He's like, what are you crazy?

You don't ever do that. Like,

that almost spoiled like Thanksgiving. And Jack's laughing because his Steelers don't play until Sunday and he thinks this is all ridiculous anyway.

So that was the, that was the kids were deliberately defying you to try to get a reaction out of you on your favorite day of the year.

I finally allowed him to be a Cowboys fan against my better judgment or any judgment. And then he does this where he's rooting for Rashid Rice.
I'm like, you got to stop this. This is stuff.

But this is fantasy. This is the most important thing for kids.
Like it just, it just is. That's what we are in life.

Real quick, my fourth son, our friend Brad, stays with me Thanksgiving weekend. So, we had him.
I know you're laughing already. So,

he's he's a lunatic. He comes in just spinning around just like a tornado and he's making fun of the boys any chance he gets and telling me about 14 documentaries he's watched.

And it makes you feel stupid. Like, he's a lunatic, but he's also like really smart.
You know, this, he's well-read. You know, he's like, What about that LA Times article?

You think they're going to lock up that sheriff? I'm like, Uh, I don't know. And then he'll tell you like 20 things things about him.
Like, so anyway, he loves ribs, right?

So I, I found this upscale barbecue restaurant in the neighborhood, but you kind of have to dress up. So I gave him like

clothes

he could wear. And my sons, Harrison and Jack, come with us.
And I go in there and he like, I was like, hey, this is like, you know, this is kind of a nice place. He's like, all right.
All right.

Now he's like, he's giving himself a pep talk as he's entering the place. He's like saying, walk like a human being, walk like a human being, walk like a human being.
He's like repeating it.

And the matron D's like, welcome, sir. I'm like, so I was like, I just have to sit him down.
I have to sit him down in a booth. And he can't be on the outside.
He's got to be on the inside.

I have it all planned in my head, right? Because you have to trap him. Yes, exactly.
You have to kind of trap him in there. He's like a caged animal.
So he's got the onion strings.

He's got about 4,500 calories in his beard before the entrees even hit. And then

come the ribs. And just a few minutes in, it looks like he was dunked headfirst into a vat of sweet baby raised barbecue sauce, like just like turned upside down and jumped in.

So at one point, he decides he has to go to the bathroom and he goes to clean up and he goes to the, walks to the bathroom and we're watching and the kids are shaking their heads and he slips on nothing and runs his whole barbecue hand on the wall, which now resembles a crime scene.

It looks like there's just blood everywhere. And he's embarrassed.
And I'm not making this up. And he runs into the woman's bathroom.
Luckily, he figured it out right away. A lot of times he doesn't.

And then he came out. And so that's the end of this.
Like I had to way over tip the wait staff. And then I sent him home today at an Uber

at the end of the one o'clock games. And

I guess there was an incident. I have to look into this now.
There was an incident with the Uber driver when I sent him home.

Yeah, the guy wouldn't go around the construction and Brad was telling him.

So I wish you could bet on FanDel how many points my Uber rating would go down when I put Brad in a sedan for an hour, but uh, I'm saying at least two and a half points.

So, that's your second time this year where he's hurt your uber rating. Yeah, I know, I know.
I'll never learn. We just never learn anyway.

So, it's like in the horror movie when the detective comes the next day and they're looking at for blood splatter on the wall and they see a handprint.

He slipped on nothing, and it's going all the way down the wall. Like, what is this?

Wow, I mean, circus clown. Honestly, that sounds sounds like he got away pretty okay from

a night out with Brad at a NEBSCO barbecue dinner. Yeah, that's true.
We had,

you know, Thanksgiving. I'm going to tell a story about my son, Murph, my five-year-old dog.
Thanksgiving, biggest day of the year for him.

My mom feeds him under the table, like food drops, people forget to close the garbage. And at some point,

it's unclear, but the carcass of the turkey, he might have. Oh, no.
We're not sure what happened to it.

It's just unclear. The garbage was open.
It might have been thrown away. He might have gotten to it.

What we did know happened for sure, because I saw it, was my mom makes these, she calls them her Aunt Minnie's cookies,

these Italian cookies. They're like powdered.

She fries them. They're super salty.
She probably made like 35 of them.

Sounds amazing. We had all these pies and stuff.
So there was probably at least 25 left and i went back in the kitchen to get uh hot water and lemon

murph's on the counter there's three cookies left so now we're like and we don't know what else he's eaten and um

so thursday night we're like this is he's gonna fucking ruin the whole weekend like we this is gonna be his first diarrhea fest in a while

Friday's okay.

Friday, nothing really happens.

Friday night, the wheels come off. We decide we don't go out.
My wife does the thing where it's like we might have to take him to the vet. He's just lying on the ground, kind of looking at us.

It's like really sluggish. She won't eat.
And she's like, he ate, she ate a bone. He ate something.
He ate something. There's turkey.
Like, this is bad. This is bad.
So he ruins Friday night.

Saturday.

Starting to get better. And by Saturday night, he's okay.
Did you had you taken him in or you did take him in?

I never took him in. And by Sunday, he's okay.
He's a little happier. And we got through it.
We got through it unscathed. Or so we thought, because in the upstairs in one of the rooms,

just a giant, giant poop that unclear if it had been there for 48 hours, 24 hours, but it was like, it was a room. He picked a room like he's smarter.
It's like better and savvy.

It's like, nobody goes in this room that much. Just dropped one in there and it was in there.
And

yeah. so it was our first incident only.

That's bad. Are you sure?

I know you want to blame Murph, but it could have been Brad who wandered into your house accidentally. It might have been Brad.
Today's Parent Corner presented by Uber8s.

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now.

Anything else we have to cover? Oh, you know, we're doing Rocky 2 for Rewatchables. It's going up tomorrow night.

I don't know how when was the last time you watched it? You know, I watched it a couple of years ago. Is that the slowest of all of them? I don't want you to

blow your load here. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

I don't know if the point was to put us in a coma at the same time Adrian was in it, but it's a very long coma.

Really enjoyable, though. I've watched it twice in the past five days.
Yeah. Really good.
And somehow the worst of the first four, but really, really good. So can't wait to take that one.

There you go. Yeah.

Go ahead. Multiple scenes where he's just reading a book to Adrian.

Like in the Stallone voice. And they just, they're deleted scenes that weren't deleted.
They're just in the actual movie. He wasn't even in the movie.
It was like during lunch hour.

And they're like, oh, let's roll on this. Let's roll.
How long? Just pretend. This will be funny.
The Ringer Gambling Show. It's greatest.
Check it out on YouTube and the Fandle Sports Network.

It's me and Tate and House and the Bundo and High Fitz Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday. And then the Ringer Pregame show on Sunday.
Lots of fun. All right, great.
We're taking a break.

We're keeping the podcast going because I got Van Lathan and Todd McShea to talk about this crazy Lane Kiffen story, which I guess wasn't that crazy since most people thought he was. I can't be.

I think I'm supposed to be outraged, but I'm not. I don't know.

I just get on college sports these days. It's fine.
Like Kentucky paid their coach $37 million to go away. Kentucky gives a shit.
What are they doing? That's just how it is.

All right. We'll pass that point along to the next segment.
Sal, good job by you. Good job by you, buddy.

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I can't remember many times on a Sunday night podcast with cousin Sal that we had to veer off and cover another sport, but this college football story that happened with old miss and LSU, we had to bring in Todd McShea and Van Lathan, a giant LSU fan.

We'll start with Todd.

You saw this coming for a while.

You talked about it in your pod, but this still felt like one of the craziest weekends we've had in college football, just with a coach switching teams, the whole thing.

I don't remember this much of a circus. Is there another example?

I mean, I guess Brian Kelly's the closest thing, right? Back in 2021, where they were headed towards the playoff. They wound up.
That was only a 14 playoff back then.

They were heading towards it. I think they were like 11-1 or 10-1 at the time when Marcus Freeman stepped in as the interim and became the full-time coach.
So, kind of similar in a lot of ways.

The defensive coach becomes the full-time coach, and someone leaving in a playoff run to go to LSU. So, there are definitely some similarities there, but I remember at the time it was unprecedented.

I mean, you had to go to comparisons in other sports, or at least maybe in the NFL,

to try to get something that was an apt comp, you know?

So it's Van's team. So it's just LSE is the one that does this.
Yeah. Throws the sport out.
And the last time they did it, they still have like five and a half years and $54 million to pay off.

So, but this is different, man.

Like from the Fay Emily quote when he walked into the into the basketball arena with Brian Kelly to some of the recruiting early on and then the stories that started to surface.

It was just never a fit with Brian Kelly.

This feels like home. This feels like the right fit.
And I don't know, there's just so many layers to peel off in this, but can we just for a half a second

celebrate the fact that college football is, I mean, we just had the Lane Kiffen documentary come out, and now we have part two unfolding right in front of our eyes.

And college football, for all of its imperfections, and it's the wild, wild west right now. Like, this is this is like what you love about this game.

It's insanity.

So, what you love is abject insanity. Yes.
Okay. Van, I, I, listen, you could feel it coming for like two weeks.

And yet the part where they're, they have this giant playoff and watching a coach leave a team that he just put all this time in to try to put in a position to do well in the playoff.

And then he's like, I'll see you guys later. Got a better offer.
Good luck. It never sits right to me, but this is one of the reasons why college sports is so fucked up, Van.

You've benefited from it twice.

No,

I have yet to benefit from it. Hopefully, I'll benefit from it now.
I mean, we got the Hodgman Trophy season with Jaden Daniels. So, you know, and Brian Kelly did some things while he was at LSU.

You know, it's funny.

You start, you get anxious about this stuff.

So you reach out to people, people that are there, the people that you know, tons of LSU press people that I know down there in and around Baton Rouge that cover the sport.

And you say, What's going on? And this is like a week ago, week and a half ago. And they say, it's done.

I'm like, what? They say, it's done. Like, Lane Kiffin has agreed to come to LSU.
Van, Van, Van, I got a text on Friday night. And apparently, not to, I've got to be careful.

Apparently, there's a text chain going on, right?

And on that text chain, there's some people and someone I knew was around it and so on and so forth. I was told on Friday night, like, I don't get it.
What's the Marty Smith deal? Why is everyone

He's basically closed on a house like a week ago. Yeah, it was over.
It was over.

And so all of this, this past, you know, 72 hours was about him being able to coach this team, these players through the play. Have your cake and eat it too, right?

He wanted to coach this team through, but still take this job. And we could get into Kevin Carter and the AD and all that other stuff, but it's shocking to me as you're alluding to

that people like Mart, poor Marty Smith, man. he was held hostage in the facilities there.
This was his Walter Cronkite moment, though.

Like, this was his moment to go down there with the slicker on while the hurricanes in the back and do real news coverage. The thing was, even though people were saying that it was over, it was done.

They were still very hesitant to talk about it because of the nature of Lane Kiffin.

They were like, We don't know whether or not he is going to hold to the fact that he has already agreed to a contract with LSU. They were waiting for the Egg Egg Bowl.

If old people,

man, they were waiting for the iron bowl. Like people weren't sure if he was going to stick to his word on it.

The same people that told me Friday night that it's done and he's got a place basically and everyone in his circle knows that he's going to LSU.

Same people were telling me,

You watch. It will not be announced.
It will not be official till after that Alabama game.

Because of that, because the job he wants more than any other job, watch the hand motions and i know i i've known lane for over 20 years i'm buds with lane we we communicate but if you just watch as much as he butted heads with nick at alabama he and sabin have a bond and a mutual respect for one another even though they drove each other crazy that was the job he wanted and so there was still this one percent in him and no one will ever admit it and especially him

and and and by the way we have scott boris right now we have to me like when you look at the situation with um with jimmy sexton in college football he is the

yeah david valk scott boris jimmy sexton's control even more so he has 14 out of the 16 sec coaches that he is the lord of college football yes yes

and he's messing around with with penn state right now we can get to that later or another time but he's messing around with with penn state right now because penn state let go one of his guys james franklin in a manner that he didn't appreciate and so now they're they're kind of sitting back.

And every time they go try to hire a coach or get serious with the coach, that coach who's represented by Sexton winds up with an extension or winds up going to maybe UCLA or, you know, so it's, it's fascinating to see.

But but I truly believe there was a small percentage of Lane that was like, yep, I'm going to LSU. It's done.

But what happens if Auburn beats Alabama? Because that thing could fall apart in a hurry with Kalen DeBoer.

Yeah, see, Van, you're basically, I'm trying to think of the Hollywood relationship parallel. Oh, I got a bunch of them.
Like Lori Harvey, if you know who she is,

you know, if you date Lori Harvey for a little while, you fall in love, but you know that she's going to go looking for someone else, be it Warren Beatty.

There are a bunch of them. There's so many.
But here's the thing, though. Here's the deal.
This is the deal.

With any of these people, any of these relationships, the true measure of it is not the length of it. The true measure of it is what you got out of it.
Mm-hmm.

Like, what did you get out of it when you were the time that you were in the sun, dating Madonna, the time that you were in the sun, dating Warren Beatty, dating Rihanna, dating Lori Harvey?

Did your star go up? Did you win a couple of championships? Because that person is leaving. No one thinks that this is a marriage.
This is a long term, long-term courtship between us and Lane Kiffin.

What will we get out of the time that we are together? That's how you have to look at that.

And ole miss people don't want to hear this, okay?

I love Oxford. It's one of my favorite stops on the college football tour.
I think it's a beautiful, magical place.

I love Archie. I'll give you a couple more before the.
I love Archie. I love the people there.
I love the tailgating, all of it.

But

Lane outgrew Oxford.

His star rose and it got too big. And

it got trashed from the Tennessee to the Raiders to

he and Nick fighting to FAU and all of it. But he slowly built it back up and he kind of he reinvented himself through sobriety and hot yoga and remarried to his wife and all those things.

And he now knows he's in a place personally where he can go and make a run at being one of the greats.

And he took old miss. You got to remember, this 11-win season during the regular season at Ole Miss is the best season in the school's history

that they've ever had. 11-win season at LSU is like, okay, really good, but what, like, what's the payoff now?

So, and with that expectation comes support, comes a foundation that Ole Miss just doesn't have. And so I understand it from Lane's perspective.
It's just the timing sucks.

And honestly, it's college football's calendar that's created all this because you can't wait another month with recruiting, with the NIL, NIL, with transfer portal and everything going on.

The calendar is so twisted that you have to make decisions like this at the most, at the least opportunistic time to do so.

When you say foundation, are you saying they just don't have the same NIL war chest or they don't have the prestige? Like what is missing with the Ole Miss Foundation that LSU has?

I think part of it's prestige. I think part of it is

ole Miss has come up with a war chest that's that's, you know, I mean, they they've

yes, yes, and they and they had the right people in place that were helping Lane get the players that he wanted, and and it was

but it was maxed out there.

So, if Lane's able to go to LSU and take the money that he had and maybe a little bit more money and the aggressive people around him to help support him, he can turn, he can become at LSU what Nick was at Alabama.

I'm not saying that many championships, but that in his mind, I can go to LSU and make a serious run.

Now that I'm in a place personally where I'm seeing things clearer than I ever have before, I'm healthier. I'm like committed.

Everything's in a row. I can now go there

and chase what Nick,

what Nick created at Alabama. And that absolutely is his mindset.
And

more talent in Louisiana, right?

Yeah, I'll say this: a couple of things. Number one, along with this, LSU has made a commitment to

the NIL and to have $20, $25 million a year for him to go out and get the players, right? So he's going to be competitive as far as that's concerned, competitive with most programs in the country.

Secondly, is this, per capita, I think Louisiana is second or third in terms of players in the NFL right now. It's a very fertile, fertile state for that.

And there's not another SEC school in the state. Now, Mississippi is third, but there's a big gap between second and third.

Like Louisiana and Georgia are real close and then Mississippi is third, but there's a gap between Mississippi and Louisiana. And then you have another SEC school in Mississippi.

So whereas at O Miss, Lane is going to have to dip into the transfer portal every now and again to get players and hope that those players hit.

If he can successfully build a wall around Louisiana, he can go out and have the best, most talented athletic teams in the country every single year. Top five schools, top five classes every year.

The first thing that he did when he got in town was he met with Lamar Brown, the number one player in the class who's already committed to LSU, who goes to UHI. Uh high is on LSU's campus.

It's on the campus of the school, right? And the number one player in the state, in the country is at that school. So there are advantages that exist at LSU that he wouldn't have had an old miss.

I'll say this about Lane Kiffen, though. Lane Kiffin needs to prove that he's a championship coach.
Everyone knows that he's a good coach. He's a talented coach.
He can see ball. He can call ball.

He can build programs. But the reality is now with the resources that he has, with as many places as he's been, it's time for him to prove that he can win championship

as the head guy, not as the guy that's calling your plays, as the head guy. And that happens here.
It has to happen now because LSU is all in with

Lane Kiffen. And the thing too is, Bill, like just so you understand, because I know like you, with the NBA and NFL.

I barely understand.

No, I know, I know, but Trinidad Chambliss, the quarterback that he just won 11 games with,

he was a transfer from a Division II school. All of his games in the previous couple seasons that he played

wasn't in front of a crowd, if you combined all those crowds, as big as an SEC home game. And so he brought him in and he was apparently ranked, because I don't have like the

transfer portal rankings for any position, let alone quarterback. But apparently they have a couple of services that do these rankings.
He was like the 260-something ranked quarterback.

And he and Lane found him. and brought him in and did this with him in one year.
So you think about what he can do at LSU with the type of talent that Van's talking about.

And then also like he went from West Coast, USC, the Pete Carroll, when you think of that, like Sarkeesian and Lane and what they did with those, like the Matt Leinerts and the and the Sanchez's of the world, to that up tempo, crazed, you know, to kind of fit his personality, to mixing and blending the two with Jackson Dart.

And Jackson Dart early on was that RPO, hand the ball off and fast tempo and going. And then as Jackson Dart Dart grew up and got smarter and could understand concepts,

like morphed those things into more West Coast. And then he kind of went veered off to the side with Trinidad this year.

So not only are you getting a guy who can spot talent and develop talent, you're also getting a guy schematically who actually, and there's very few of them in college football, who actually gives you a schematic

upper hand. over a lot of other opponents on the offensive side of the ball.
And who develops talent to where you can see

a huge thing that I think the transfer portal, and shout out to my man Carter, who

Power Hour LSU, who talked about this.

The transfer portal, to me, has affected the development of a lot of the players in college football because you're bringing in guys who are established and it's taking away reps and that other guys are getting that have been in your program for a long time, right?

So it's shortening the window to develop these players. Lane's players get better.
They develop. You see snap after snap, game after game.
These These people get better. These players, they develop.

They are better football players. They don't regress in weird ways like some of the big players that you've seen in other places.

They get it and they continue to get a hold of what it is that he's giving them.

And I just say something else. His crazy matches are crazy.
We insane.

We drunk on Saturday in the morning all day. We New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Appaloosis, Chalmette, Destrahan, West Monroe, Lake Charles, New Iberia, crazy.
And his crazy matches our crazy.

It's a culture fit. It works.
I don't think it would fit in Alabama. I think it fits perfectly in Baton Rouge.

But I'm curious, Bill, because when you called me earlier and asked me, you know, are you around tonight to come on? It seemed like you had an edge about this whole thing.

Like kind of a little bit, were you disgusted by it? Like, what was your first reaction to all of this? No, so when I was like nine years old, the Patriots were really good. The 78 Patriots.

We had this coach, Chuck Fairbanks.

And he took a job with Colorado

the last game of the season, heading into the playoffs. And everybody was outraged.
They suspended him for the last game. Then he came back and coached the playoff game.
We got killed by the Oilers.

And he just became this pariah that Patriot fans still hate. Like everybody over a certain age, I hate that guy to this day.

So I wonder, like, A, does that happen with him in Ole Miss where he's just hated even 45 years from now? It feels like it will. And the LSU.
Did you see the airport today? Yeah, yeah.

It just feels like that's going to be the all-time villain status for him. And they're right down the highway.
Right.

Well, then he goes to LSU and it really does feel like this isn't the last stop for him. But I was thinking about it in the context of, it's weird.
So LeBron won two straight MVPs.

The decision happens. And he just vaults to another level of fame, right? That was such a polarizing thing.
It was such a huge story. Everybody had an opinion on it.

Like, even like my wife knew that it happened, or my mom, people like that, didn't even follow sports.

It feels like this Lynn Kippen thing might be like that for college football, which I didn't really think would be possible for a coach, like a story that crosses over the mainstream.

So I guess my question is: does he now vault to this different level? Like, is he the most famous football coach now because of this? Oh, easily. Right? Easily.

So then is he more famous than any basketball coach? Is he just the most famous college coach now.

Yeah. I mean,

I think so. I think he is.
Yeah, he is too. Yeah.

I mean,

obviously there are guys that are running it right now.

And as far as college basketball, it's an interesting transitional period where a lot of the guys that were these institutions are kind of gone now. But yeah, he is.

This has been an a soap opera that has captivated college football fandom for the last month. And it's spilled over to where I'm getting texts from all different types of people talking about it now.

And yeah, to be honest with you,

Nick Saban came in and transformed LSU football. It's a fact.
It's a fact. Grew seeds that are still bearing fruit, but it's hard for me to look at them.

It just is because it became a humiliation ritual every November first weekend to go in there and get your teeth domped in, right?

It never goes away, but

you're still

kind of appreciative.

You're still kind of appreciative. You're still like, we had Nick Saber.
Now, the difference is, like, he never delivered them a national championship. Who knows how far O Miss football goes?

If his legacy and what he started there can continue under Pete Golden, maybe it softens the blow a little bit. But Todd, you remember that was the Pats fans with Parcells, right?

There was a lot of bitterness, and he went to the Jets. And even when he went to the Cowboys, but at some point it shifted and people were like, you know what?

He brought football back. He probably saved it.
We would have gone to St. Louis if it wasn't for him.
I appreciate him, but it was really mad for a little bit.

I think this Kippen thing will probably be a little deeper because odds are old misses never going to matter like they just did the last couple of years.

Yeah, they're not. It'll be hard.

Not like this. Not like this.
And going back to your question, you got to remember college football in just the last few years has lost Nick Sabin, Urban Meyer, Jim Harbaugh.

So you look around, like Marcus Freeman, people love and adore him. Lincoln Riley was a big deal, but he went up to USC.
And surprisingly, it's just not gone well. And so his star has fallen.

Kirby Smart, Dabbo Sweeney for a while, was just with all the antics and the press conferences and the interviews and the post-game. was a big character, but that star has fallen.

So, and Kirby Smart's been the most successful coach.

And while you can't argue the success, and even though

it was the foundation is that of Nick Sabin,

for whatever reason, he just doesn't carry that cachet, right? The Oregon coach seems like he has a little bit of crossover name recognition, but not like Lane Kimfin, I don't think. Not like Lanfin.

And even, you know, Chip Kelly, when he was, when they were, when they were rolling, people loved Chip or despised him, but a lot of fun. And

college football, if you look at it right now, it's kind of missing that like sex appeal for

the big names and rival coaches and all that. I think by the way, so is college basketball.
Just FYI. You said that.
But Tino's probably the most famous college basketball coach right now.

And he's a holdover from a past era.

And this is gone.

And I'm not saying that it won't happen again, but I'm saying right now, you know, it used to be times where you're looking at, you know, Khalipar and all of these guys that are on top of it.

And they have their own little fiefdoms of college basketball. In college football right now, there are a lot of things that are stopping us from getting to the middle of these stories, right?

There's every time two teams play,

it's about the playoff. It's about the sea, it's about

a lot of the cultural clashes is what made the sport special to me. This story is about a cultural clash.

And the dominoes that fell around this, how as soon as Lane made his decision, Arkansas has their guy. Florida has their guy.
Auburn has their guy.

All of that is about how these coaches, I'm as interested in why John Somerall looked at the Auburn situation and went, can't coach there. Like, can't do it.

Like, these are the things that used to undergird the love for the sport.

And they kind of get washed over when you're talking about the transfer portal, you're talking about NIL, you're talking about so many other things than just which culture is superior, the cultural warfare that is college football.

I mean, the current system has created a bunch of mercenaries from players to coaches. And they really have like, it's pay for play and everyone's out to kind of get theirs.
And quite honestly,

Lane was trying to use this current system

to go against the establishment, Noel Miss.

And from what I understand, there were conversations of, well, I'm just going to take the staff and I'm going to take a bunch of these players with me and they won't play if you don't let me coach.

And it didn't really work out. That's the other part of this, Van and Bill, like

someone snuck a phone into that meeting today and it got it out. And they taped it.
And they taped it. Yeah.
So everyone had to turn their phone in.

Someone had a burner phone and someone had to put stuff somewhere where no one knew and taped it.

And when the, the, um, the chancellor and I think the AD, you know, spoke to the team, the players, and basically.

Thank you for everything you've done. You have no idea.
Like you're going to, 15 years from now, we're going to have you on the field 10, 15 years from now, and we're going to be celebrating you.

You have brought memories. You have brought like you'll never understand what you have brought to this town, this city of Oxford.

But also, we want to let you know, you got to keep pushing because we can still make a run at this. And your new head coach is right here.
And I was surprised.

by the level of excitement by the players. They went nuts.
I think they got to a point where they were just fed up with all of it.

And so while Lane thought he was going to leverage these players that love him and would die for him, would follow him anywhere,

they seemed to, and it was just one, you know, one meeting, but there were, it wasn't like, hey, you know, it was going crazy. So that part's interesting, too.

Let's be honest, guys, this, this could be a sports movie.

I keep trying to get you to get into it. I told you that I was about to hit you up.
Somebody should do this. Cast everyone up and someone should do this.
I'll tell you this,

I'll tell you something. Will there will be some attrition?

Not now.

They're in the playoffs and they will play after the dust is settled. No question.
There will be some attrition. The question is: who?

A lot of people thought Kiwan Lacey, Trinidad Chamberlain, all of these guys would end up in purple and gold. I don't know that that'll happen, but there are definitely some people.

There have been some decommitments already. There have been some players in Louisiana now who are looking around and they might go, huh? I might have the chance to be neighbors or Brian Thomas Jr.

or Jamar Chase again. I might get a chance to get used like that again with the type of offense that they're playing.

And they're definitely going to be guys that play for old miss that feel that way as well. There will be some attrition.
The question is, how much and when will they start to trickle out?

I don't think it'll be until after they're done in the playoff.

I mean, Todd, this is your favorite sport. Is this

all of this good?

You know, what is Ross?

Like, what are we ultimately trying to do here as a sport?

Not really. But

it kind of feels like we're always in this. Right.

You know, like, like, man, things are out of control in college football, whether it's paying players that, you know, it's not legal or illegal recruiting.

I grew up, my grandfather got me into the sport, gave me an obsession with it. He was a quote-unquote area recruiter.
for the University of Michigan for Bo Schembeckler.

Well, I thought that was the coolest thing in the world, but I didn't realize that like they were having these secret meetings and like like Bo was coming to the house and no one was supposed to know about it because what my grandfather was doing was illegal at the time, probably.

And I still don't know exactly how illegal, but this has been going on for your grandfather was Connor Stallions? No, but maybe before Connor Stallions, apparently.

I don't like to think of them that way. But I'm just saying,

I feel like college football is always kind of in this seedy.

area and it's kind of what makes it beautiful.

Well, that means players have been able to at least match the the seediness and be like, all right, now we're going to do it too. And there's

so many negative byproducts of all of this. There's no question.
And unfortunately,

following them now to the NFL draft and getting the intel from NFL teams that have private investigators and former FBI agents going and hearing the stories of like, it's hard enough.

Marty Schottenheimer had a quote to me once when he was working at the ESPN. He said, the hardest part of evaluating a player, it's not, does he have a big arm or does he run fast? It's

knowing that you're about to hand this person three things that he's never had before, more money, more fame, and more free time.

And it resonated with me. And I'm still 15, 20 years later, still talking about that quote.
But now you're doing it. And that was with like a 20, 21, 22 year old.

Now you're doing it with like 16, 17, 18 year olds. And to hear some of the stories going on.
So at some point, college football has to have a commissioner.

they've got to have a governing body that actually governs over the sport and can

but i don't know when that's ever going to happen it's going to and i've talked to so many head coaches and people in power like like the highest up people in power and they all agree on one thing it will take the government stepping in and forcing it on college football before it because there's too much money to be had right now too many people that are in power are benefiting from it financially well you you talk about the 15 16 17 year olds.

You also have this whole class of

kind of like lower level agent slash manager, handler,

deal maker people who have no experience whatsoever, who are super sleazy. I feel like that's where it's going to go the most sideways.

You know what it used to be? It used to be that $40,000 or $50,000 was a lot of money. that would really talk.
$40,000, $50,000. You come work on a staff.

Get a car and

put you on staff, not even put you on staff staff at the college, put you on staff at the local high school, put your uncle on staff, let him call some plays.

The dealership, get him all of that stuff. That doesn't move the needle anymore.
No. We need $250,000.
And I need $250,000. And

I'm a four-star safety. That's not, if you want a quarterback, that's a mill five, baby.
That's $2 million. It's different.
Things are different.

And as we adjust to it, there are some bodies that are being left behind. Like right now, I love LSU.
It's in my blood. Walked around the campus when I was three years old.

Like my mom went there, all of that stuff, right? But I do feel for the old Miss fans.

I feel for what it must be like to be having the greatest season in the history of your school, then lose your identity, which is what Lane Kiffen was for Ole Miss before you go and get a chance to make a run.

And so I do feel for that.

Honestly,

it's like, it's the wire, man. It's cold outside.
Yeah.

I was going to say, I've known you a long time. You don't feel bad at all.
I don't know who you're kidding. I look, it's a cold game.
I've been there. Like, it's a cold game, man.

The thing about the old days is they the old days. That's the thing about them.
And we, we're in the new day now, and it's kind of getting where you're feeling. It's the way it goes.

So, Todd, what school was the most bummed out that this happened, other than Ole Mess?

Alabama?

Uh, Florida, because for sure. I mean, Layla, his own wife went there.

His wife's father was a star quarterback at Florida and went on to play for the Buccaneers, I think it was.

They thought it was.

If he's leaving Ole Miss, he's going there. They got somebody.
So why LSU and not Florida?

Like, why would he pull the trigger on the LSU pick and not wait?

I think. If you study both programs,

at Florida, there's a little bit more chaos, more bureaucracy. Um,

it's been disjoint,

Todd. Terrible AD.
Yeah, you get to say, I hate to say terrible. Strickland is one of the worst ADs.
They've, they've won this. They got a terrible AD, a terrible AD.

A guy who can't seem to make the right decisions about anything. It probably spooked a lot of coaches, to be honest with you.
Worse than the Syracuse AD who didn't hire Bob Chesney?

Little stealth joke for Todd.

Two years ago, Todd Todd remembers. And there's some layers.
We might have worked for him once. We might have.
We might have. He couldn't do that job either.

Also, Sabin's influence might have pushed him to LSU just a tad bit. Maybe.

The two people that were most influential on this were Nick Saban and Pete Carroll.

And Pete wouldn't, Pete would just, Pete's point to him was

you did what you were supposed to do at Ole Miss. They'll wind up appreciating you.
The players will wind up appreciating you, but it's time for you to go to level up.

And you've earned the right to level up through all of everything you've been through. Go take it.
Nick's message might have been what you're talking about, Van.

Todd, you made the key point earlier. The way the system's set up, maybe there's no way that this could be graceful.
Like for

going forward, there's no way this can actually

happen in a good way. You'd have to be out of the playoff race.

The only people who are affected by this that I actually care about are the players. And listening to that team meeting, maybe they're not as affected as I thought.

I'm going to be rooting for them though. Oh, me too.
Let's have the sports movie actually happen, Van.

Van, you're doing an unbelievable job of pretending you're not like absolutely euphoric right now. I just want to give you a little time.
I haven't seen you this happy in a while. So, two things.

Number one, I'm glad we got our guy. I'm glad we got the coach that we wanted.
Number two, if I wanted to be,

I could be such a dickhead about this, but I'm choosing if I if I wanted to be, because if you the some of the some of the some of the texts and calls, and I'm getting this, I didn't know we had it like that.

We went right over into the next station and took your girl while you guys was about to get married.

I mean, you guys are literally planning a wedding. No, this is

cold blooded. And we said we got a bigger house, we got a better car, we got

like you come over here and get with us. If I wanted to, I could be a dickhead about it, but I care too much about the sport.
I really love college football. And I know the fandom that people have.

And I've been up there to Ole Miss.

They're a decent fan, history aside. And I don't have any problem with them.
And I know this must hurt. I know this must hurt.
Plus, the karma and the energy thing is always a big thing for me.

But I'm happy. I'm happy for the karma rules.
Yeah, like I'm happy that LSU got that guy, but God damn, that got to suck, man. That has to be tough.

Well, you know who the last honest, loyal man in college football was? Drake May.

Could have left, could have left for his last year, jumped to a better program, done it for him. You know what he did? He stayed in North Carolina with an inferior team.

Not a great coaching situation because he's a loyal guy, Todd McShea. Drake May.
He's built different. And now he's going to play off run with no left tackle.
So here we are. Here we are.

All right. So, Todd, you're covering more of this on your podcast tomorrow.
Yes, tomorrow. We're, yeah, tomorrow morning, it'll be up late morning.
And

I've got more on this. I got a lot more on Penn State.
This whole,

I don't think until this, I real, I mean, I knew that Jimmy Sexton had 14 of 16 SEC coaches and he was powerful. I think this last.

six, eight weeks has shown us that he literally is the most powerful man in college football. And he is, he is pulling every string.

And if you're a Penn State fan, fan, that is a scary thing right now. And then, Van, you're covering more on Ringer Tailgate.
That's what we're doing on Ringer Tailgate on Wednesday.

We're doing a deep dive into Jimmy Sexton.

Yeah, we're doing a deep dive into Jimmy Sexton on Ringer Tailgate because I don't know, you guys would know better than I would, if there's any singular sports figure right now.

I guess Clutch has a lot of guys.

Clutch has the ringer now. I guess Clutch has a lot of guys.

I guess clutch has a lot of guys, but I don't know if there's any one specific figure in any one specific sport from the business side.

Honestly, you can talk about Boris. You can talk about David Falk.
He's on that level, but on a crazy level, even on the broadcast, you can hear the guys on the broadcast, Jimmy Sexton clients

talking in a Jimmy Sexton language. It's interesting.
It's interesting. I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

I'm just saying to have a player like that in your sport, it just changes the dynamics completely. Boris felt like he had that going.

Not recently, but maybe like, what, 10, 12 years ago? Yeah, it felt like

it felt like he just had everybody for three, four years. But yeah, I mean, this would be the right sport to do it because it's the Wild, Wild West.
All right.

Band on Ringer Tailgate Wednesday, Todd McShea, tomorrow plus Todd's newsletter, which is essential.

Love it. Go Pats.
Thanks. Thanks for coming on, guys.
Dan got the newsletter. I've been looking at the newsletter.
Shout out to Dan. I love it.
Thanks, guys. No problem.
See you guys. All right.

That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sal and Van and McShay and Gahal and Eduardo.
Don't forget rewatchables on Monday night,

Rocky 2. And Music Box Series actually coming back on HBO and HBO Max on Thursday night with a Jeff Beckley documentary that is fantastic.

So I'll talk more about that on Tuesday, but just want to give you a little heads up.

Thursday night, we have an awesome football game, and you also have a really good documentary to watch. So I will see you on this feed on Tuesday.

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