My Friend, the Serial Killer | 2. Confessions

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A quick warning before we start.

This show contains descriptions of sexual violence and murder.

Listener discretion is advised. Robert Carr's home was a bit like Carr himself.
Unassuming, a little pockmarked. Seemed average enough.
It's in a duplex. The cars were renting upstairs.
As I walk up the steps and knock on the door, I have my reporter's notebook in hand. I'm feeling a little nervous.
After all, Joanne Carr is my best shot, maybe my only shot, at getting a big interview with her husband, Robert. I knock.
Joanne the door, but just a crack, tentatively, like she doesn't really trust who's on the other side. She's small with dark hair, sweet face.
Looks like she hasn't slept in a while. She invites me in.
She's clearly shell-shocked. Joanne says she cannot believe what her husband has done Attacked and killed kids, young women Of course she knows about the rapes her husband committed previously He'd been to prison in Connecticut But standing there in her kitchen She tells me something that I've never.
She says, I thought if you gave it to

them at home, they'd be fine. She thought that if she provided sex at home, then her husband wouldn't rape others.
One thing seems clear to me. Joanne Carr was terrified of her husband.
And then, as we're talking, I notice their 12-year-old daughter, Donna. She's standing not far away.
She's a skinny kid with long, bright blonde hair, hunched over a bit. To me, maybe it's just the circumstances, but she seems forlorn.
Suddenly, I feel like an intruder. But you know, I'm here to get a story.
So we start talking. Pretty soon, Joanne shocks me.
She wants my help. To mentor Donna, be a kind of big brother to her.
Wow. It feels like this woman's desperate.
I can't say no. There was this little knee wall next to the building where they lived.
So one day Donna and I sit there and we talk. Another day I take her to an arcade.
It's a local place with pinball machines. In my memory, it was not a good day for Donna.
She banged on the

pinball machine when she didn't do well, and then she just ran out of the arcade.

Over the years, I've wondered what happened to Donna, how her life turned out. But back then,

my focus was pretty singular. I was trying to find a way to talk to Donna's father.
I asked Joanne to send a message to her husband down in that prison in Florida, putting a word for me. I remind Joanne that I know him, that he picked me up hitchhiking not far from their house.
I assure her I can tell his story.

Robert Carr has already started to tell his story to the cops.

He says he's going to give them all the evidence they need

to make a case against him.

This is My Friend the Serial Killer.

I'm Steve Fishman. Episode 2, Confessions.
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Has everything you told us been truly the best of your knowledge?

Yes, it has. Cops and prosecutors don't typically think too much about why someone confesses to crimes.
They're too busy closing cases moving on to the next one. But Robert Carr was unusual.
because when Miami police arrested him for one crime,

he confessed to many others.

Crimes the police and prosecutor Ed O'Donnell didn't even know had been committed.

Did he ever say why he was confessing?

When he got arrested for the attempted rape or rape, he had an awakening epiphany, if you want. Well, this is what I'm supposed to do now.
Let me get rid of all this guilt. He doesn't say that.
No. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
That's me thinking, no, no, I never said to him, okay, Robert, come on. Why did you do this? Maybe if I was a defense attorney, you'd be looking for some sort of insanity or something, but it wasn't there.
There was no real remorse. something is motivating him, but what is it? Robert Carr spent hours and hours over several days telling detectives about the crimes he said he'd committed.
In the confession tape, he remains calm throughout. His descriptions are detailed and matter-of-fact.
To me, he almost seems weary. I drank two six-packs of beer, then two pints of peppermint snobs during the day, and then picked up two more six-packs of beer.
Both the cops and Carr seem to have an appetite for the smallest details. What kind of beer do you use to drink? No, how I.
What kind of peppermint steps? Harold Walker. By the time he'd finished with the detectives, Robert Carr had confessed to multiple crimes.
Four murders, two 11-year-old boys who were best friends, a teenage girl, and a young woman.

He also confessed to at least eight rapes, all of them hitchhikers. Carr often held his victims captive for a week or more, which is really unusual in a rapist.
Eventually, he'd let some go if he believed they wouldn't tell the cops. According to Carr, he ultimately decides to confess

because of a sense of connection he felt with one of his victims,

Tammy Ruth Huntley, who was 16 years old, half Carr's age.

This is why I confessed this whole thing.

This, on her account. Carr may have kidnapped and raped Tammy, but he still imagined they had sort of a relationship.
Tammy had a stepsister named Candy Sweet Lovett. Candy thought of Tammy as a big sister, loving and dedicated.
She was also a protector. She was very tough.
She didn't take shit from nobody. I'm telling you, she did not take shit from nobody.
Tammy's about two years older than Candy. She made me feel like I was a princess or something.
She's treated everybody equal. You know, she never, you know, put down people or criticized people or made fun of people, you know.
She was just amazing. So was she the kind of kid who ran away from home?

Not her. people, you know.
She was just amazing. So was she

the kind of kid who ran away from

home? Not her,

no.

But she didn't show up from work one day.

Tammy

had a job at a place that made golf cart

seats and guitar cases.

It was her day off.

She was supposed to go

to work to get her paycheck.

I mean, she was,

when it comes to money, she was really funny about that. She got her money, okay? So, it was just really odd that she had missed out on it.
she counted for every fucking penny she got on her paycheck trust me when it comes to money she would have picked that check up so

that's when something was going on every fucking penny she got on her paycheck. Trust me, when it comes to money,

she would have picked that check up, so...

Yeah.

That's when something was going on.

Candy had no idea what happened to her sister.

I'm the night of March 29th, I went down 163rd Street, headed east toward the beach, and made the right at this corner. This is one of the tapes Carr made with those two Miami homicide detectives.
It wasn't easy to get. We'd been spending a lot of time trying to track down those detectives.
Finally, we got one on the phone. He wouldn't talk, but he did say he had a couple of tapes.
And one day they showed up at my producer's apartment. I wasn't exactly looking forward to watching them.
I knew they were going to be detailed and I knew they were going to be creepy. But it's so rare that you get to hear a serial killer talk openly about his crimes.
Here in one of the tapes, Carr is drawing a map on the blackboard behind him. He looks a little like a schoolteacher, given a lesson.
He's calm. He's relaxed.
He's wearing short sleeves, and he shows the detectives exactly where he makes a right turn on red. I stayed in the right lane, and there was a girl standing just beyond the Greyhound bus station, which is right on the corner there.
She was standing in an extremely dark area. And my headlights hit her, and I knew right away, this was it.
Cars driving a 69 Ford Torino with racing stripes. Tammy was trying to go about 20 blocks.
And like I was just months before, she's looking for a ride as Robert Carr drives up. Was she hitchhiking? Yes, she was.
How did you pick this girl as compared to the other girls? She was mature looking. She was intelligent looking.
Okay. She didn't look as big as she was, really.
She had a kind of a real girlish look about her, which was deceiving a little bit, after I got a better look at her. But, you know, I mean, you have to make a decision somehow, and I made it by what I thought I saw.
This girl got in the car and she was talking, just continuous. She was all wound up and she's just talking and I never saw anything like it.
And I was trying to question her about just how far are you going now? She told me she was going to 140th Street. I wasn't sure where that was at that time.
And I says, well, where's 140th Street? And she says, you know where the drive-in is? And I saw the area. She says, well, it's just below the drive-in.
I said, OK. So we're driving down, and she's talking and talking, and I'm nodding my head and saying, uh-huh, uh-huh.
And got down to the drive-in, and she says, you can let me out right here on the right-hand side, just about moving. She was looking out.
I, you know, wasn't stopped. She wasn't trying to open the door or anything.
She was just looking out for some reason. And then I reached and pulled the knife out and this knife had an extremely sharp point on it, like a pin.
And I just pushed it up into her plouse and it stuck her a little bit. You know, like, I don't mean mean it went into her but it was real sharp and it just you know jumped her and she turned around real quick like that and I said don't move and you won't be hurt and I said just calm down and she said oh my God please I'll And I said, okay, then go down on the floorboard with your knees on the floor, your stomach and your head on the seat.
And she looked at me in a real stout. And then she says, oh my God.
And then she reached and grabbed my arm. The detectives are listening intently.
At one point, Carr turns to Detective Charlie Zatropellick. Can I use your arm for a minute, he asks.
Charlie sticks his arm out so Carr can act out his story. He uses both hands to tightly grab the detective's arm just behind the wrist.
She reached and she went around the knife like this and she grabbed my arm and she's looking at me and she says, oh my God, please don't hurt me. And I said, take your hands off my arm.
And she squeezed that much harder and she's, she's, oh my God, please don't hurt me. And I said, take your hands off of my arm.
And she says, please, like that. I says, I'm going to stab you.
And I launched like this and she threw her hands up. And she said, okay, I'll do anything you say.
As Carr is calmly telling the detectives about this incredibly frightening ride, someone in the police station whistles happily nearby. do is put her stomach and her head on the seat.
This time she watching me very closely, she did

that. She one time picked her head up and I pushed it down on the seat.
I said, don't pick your head

up again. And she didn't.
I covered her up with a coat and I told her not to say a word. Don't ask

me any questions. Don't talk to me.
I'll answer all of your questions later. Car drives all night and then all the next day.
Finally, at 1 a.m. the following night, he arrives at a remote dirt road in the middle of a swamp.
I just pull down in there and there's no place to pull up and park, get out of sight. So I just stopped right in the middle of this dirt road, which was used for logging trucks, I guess.
I don't know, and hunters used it for it. Where is this area that you're speaking of? It's called Turkey Island.
It's in Mississippi. It's about 25 to 30 miles east of New Orleans.

Now they're about 800 miles from Miami.

Carr says Tammy barely moved the whole trip.

I'd driven all day the day before, all night, that night, and all that day.

And I was exhausted, literally exhausted.

I was scared to go to sleep, for fear that she would get away.

Carr lets Tammy get up,

but says if she gives him any trouble,

he'll lock her in the trunk.

She begs to go home.

Carr assures her he's not going to hurt her.

I said, Tammy, if I ever tell you a lie,

if I ever do anything that I said I wasn't going to do,

then, you know, you have reason not to trust me. As long as I keep my word to you, trust me."

And she says,

that sounds like a good idea.

And so I was a little worried

about telling I was going to rape her. Neither of them had eaten much since they left Miami nearly two days before.
Robert Carr opened some chicken noodle soup. No doubt that had been on his shopping list, too.
He shared it with Tammy. We were sitting there

and Tammy had a window down

and I had my window down as well.

The air was flowing through there.

It was nice.

Anyway, Tammy said,

Tammy started listening

and she said,

what's that noise?

And I said, what noise?

She said, is that noise out there?

In the woods, you know,

she's talking about.

And I started looking and then I heard it. Something rustling around in the bushes.
And I said, I don't know. And all of a sudden, a little armadillo about this loft just walked right out to the edge of the road, gave us a look, stuck his nose in the leaves and played right there beside the car.
He rolled over, he did everything. And Tammy was fascinated.
She said, I've never seen him on the door before. And she said, I bet you if I open the door, he'd get in.
I hadn't heard this confession tape until I began making this podcast. Listening to it, I remember my own ride with Carr, that soft southern drawl.
It's clear in the tapes, Carr enjoys telling a story, even this one. He enjoys being the instructor at the blackboard, controlling the narrative.
I listen now, that same quiet voice, and I think, how nonchalant he makes evil sound. Anyway, I leaned over.
I was still leaning over here, and I looked at her, and I said, Tammy, you know, remember when I told you that if I don't have a mind to you, you know, trust me, so. And she said, yeah.
And I said, well, it's one thing there. It wasn't a lie at the time, but now I changed my mind about it.
I think we should talk about it. She said, what's up? And she says, you're not going to hurt me.
And I says, no, I'm not going to hurt you. I said, remember I told you you weren't going to get raped? She says, yeah.
And I says, well, I decided to change my mind on it. We should talk about it.

And she sat there for a minute, she thought about it,

and she says, well, just once now you need it.

And I said, no, we're going to be here a while.

We may as well, you know, I'm going to, you know, fight off.

You had a life out or anything at this time?

No.

Life was locked up and it would go up to the park. She said, I really don't have any choice, do I? And I said, in this position, Tammy, I'd say no, you don't.
This is her second day in captivity. That night it rains hard.
The ground turns to mud. The vehicle gets stuck.
The car is in a foul mood. A stuck car means they might need help, which could give Tammy a chance to escape.
They try to free the car themselves, pushing it, shoving stuff under the tires for traction. Nothing works.
It's April 1st, car's daughter's birthday. That's Donna.
I remember her as the forlorn little girl her mother had asked me to spend time with. She's turning 12, and as they work to free the car, he tells Tammy about his daughter.
At one point they take a break, and Tammy finds a muscle shell in the mud. According to Carr, she draws flowers on it, writes Donna in capital letters, and covers it in clear nail polish, then gives it to Carr.
Many of these details come from a book Carr eventually wrote with a reporter. There are a lot we can't independently verify, like the one with the muscle shell.
We can verify that a little while later, Tammy spots a hunter next to a truck in the distance. He's holding a gun.

Carr tells Tammy he's going to wade through the water to ask the hunter to help pull them out.

He tells Tammy if she says anything, one of them is going to get hurt, and she better hope it's

the hunter. According to Carr, she replies, don't worry about it.

I'm not going to say a thing.

They both get into the hunter's truck, and he drives it around to position it where he can hitch it to the car and yank it out. And then the hunter goes on his way.
Tammy's in her second week of captivity. In Carr's mind, they're in this together.
Carr believes Tammy is loyal to him. He even starts to imagine she likes him.
They go to stores together, and Carr says they go to clubs. He believes they're having fun.
One day in a store, she looks at an imitation sapphire, her birthstone. Carr buys it for her.
He lets her drive the car. He feels like he's really started to care about her.
I think about this, and it takes the wind out of me. I think of Tammy with that knife point in her thigh, desperate to survive, doing whatever it takes.
She's only a teenager. Car's 32.
He's let other victims go. Tammy's on her best behavior.
It's all she has to hold on to. At night, Carr always takes her back to the same secluded Mississippi woods.
That's where they sleep. In the Ford Torino.
Had you been to this area previously? Yes, I have. In his confession, Carr is giving cops detailed reports of rapes and murders he says he committed.
But the cops have a problem. No murders have been reported.
Carr can confess all he wants with as many details as he wants. Without a body, the cops have no case.
Prosecutor Ed O'Donnell. Remember, we got a fine body.
We don't have any bodies. We don't have any reports of anybody being found deceased.
Nothing to go on. So, you know, where are these bodies? Is it the main section of the road or off the road? No, it's off the road.
Well, it's off the road. You think you'll be able to find it again? Yeah.
You're going to be willing to take us on shows where it's at? Yes, I am willing to take them, show you where it's at. What's your reaction when he says, I take you to them okay let's really you'll take us there now you understand that when we find these bodies we've got a completed crime look when we find these bodies you're going to be arrested charged with with first-degree murder.
At that time, it did carry death. He said, I understand that.
Okay. According to Carr, Tammy is not the only victim he took across state lines.
In fact, not the only victim he took to that spot on Turkey Island. Of the people he claims to have killed, he says two are buried in Mississippi, one in Louisiana, and there's one back in Connecticut.
And that's all the cops have to go on, nothing other than Carr's word. So now, they're going to go on a trip to see if the guy is telling the truth.
And on this trip, Robert Carr will be leading the way.

I really enjoyed his company.

So he's a guy you could imagine having dinner with. Yeah, sure.
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Unlock your listening now by clicking subscribe at the top of the smokescreen show page in Apple Podcasts or visit getthebinge.com to get access wherever you get your podcasts. My Friend the Serial Killer is a production of Orbit Media in association with Rhyme.
Creator and host, that's me, Steve Fishman. Our senior producer is Dan Bobkoff.

Our associate producer and production coordinator is Austin Smith.

Editorial consulting by Annie Aviles.

Fact check, Catherine Newhand.

Our mixer and sound designer is Scott Somerville.

From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Jonathan Hirsch and Catherine St. Louis.

Additional reporting by Daniel Bates, Ben Feuerherd, Andy Thibault, and Francisco Alvarado.

Special thanks to Cassie Epps at Otis Library in Norwich, Connecticut.