Catch Me If You Ken I 4. Hacking the Hacker

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Speaker 3 Listen to all episodes of Catch Me If You Can at free right now by subscribing to The Binge.

Speaker 3 Visit the Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page, or visit getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. The binge, feed your true crime obsession.

Speaker 5 The binge

Speaker 5 campsite media.

Speaker 3 Sophie is at home in Germany with her parents. She says her boyfriend, Ken, the guy she's given more than $100,000 to, is in jail.

Speaker 3 He's been arrested, according to Sophie, on suspicion of a love scam, the term used for fraudsters who target their romantic partners. And now she's hoping she'll be able to put this all behind her.

Speaker 3 But she says the police soon tell her there's a problem.

Speaker 6 Because most of the money she sent Ken was via cryptocurrency with crypto it's anonymous it's not like a bank transfer when you're sending it to a specific name you just have this address a wallet address it's called it's just like a long string of numbers and letters

Speaker 3 Now Sophie says the police tell her this anonymous wallet address poses a serious issue because it makes it difficult to prove that the person Sophie sent sent money to was really Ken.

Speaker 3 In order to do so, they need the cooperation of the wallet's platform, a company called Coinbase.

Speaker 6 Coinbase, they don't really reveal user information unless it's a criminal case.

Speaker 3 Sophie says the police want to reach out to Coinbase and file a criminal report. The problem is, time is running out.

Speaker 3 The police can only hold Ken for 48 hours before charging him, which means they need that information from Coinbase ASAP.

Speaker 3 Sophie freaks out and gets in touch with legal counsel for advice.

Speaker 6 I asked the lawyers, what do I need to do to make him stay in jail?

Speaker 3 The lawyers basically tell her that they don't think it's likely that Coinbase US will cooperate unless a bigger organization such as the FBI gets involved. But they're in Germany.

Speaker 3 They can't get the FBI to care about $100,000 all the way over here.

Speaker 3 We reviewed what looks like a copy of the police report for Kenrik Wenlong-Chu, Chu, which stated that, quote, Ken was strongly suspected of having acted in breach of a criminal offense.

Speaker 3 We emailed and called the German police officer assigned to the case, asking for more information, but we did not hear back. So after 48 hours, Sophie says the police release Ken.

Speaker 3 They just don't have the evidence they need to prove that the anonymous crypto wallet Sophie sent money to belongs to him.

Speaker 3 The anonymity of crypto is protecting Ken's alleged scams.

Speaker 3 And once again, his his supposed ability to work across multiple jurisdictions seems like it is making it difficult for law enforcement to pin him down. After Ken's release, Sophie is crushed.

Speaker 3 She took her one big chance for closure and revenge. She helped set up a sting operation that ended in Ken being thrown to the ground and then thrown into jail.
And it all failed.

Speaker 3 From Sony Music Entertainment and Campside Media, this is Catch Me If You Can. I'm Natalie Robomet.

Speaker 3 This is episode 4, Hacking the Hacker.

Speaker 3 Catch me if you can.

Speaker 3 Last episode, we heard all about how Sophie wound up with Ken and how his emotional manipulations wove her into his web.

Speaker 3 This episode, Sophie's crusade to bring down Ken continues, and she takes matters into her own hands.

Speaker 3 One thing helps Sophie recover quickly from the failed sting and Ken's release, she says. She's still more angry than scared.
She figures Ken's going to disappear with her money and leave her alone.

Speaker 6 I initially assumed that after the scam is uncovered, that I'm never going to see him again.

Speaker 3 But that's not what happens. Somehow, she says Ken talks his way into a hotel and convinces them to let him use their computer.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 he reaches out to me via email on this hotel computer. It says, so sorry,

Speaker 6 this is a misunderstanding.

Speaker 6 Of course, I can pay you back. Please let me explain.

Speaker 3 Sophie looks at the email, her thoughts racing. She knows Ken's not trustworthy, but on the other hand, she thinks, maybe she can still get her money back.

Speaker 6 If he really is is a scammer and if he has scammed so many people, I was thinking

Speaker 6 he must have this money that he scammed somewhere, right?

Speaker 3 She figures she's in a relative position of power. She's kept a hold of Ken's French bulldog, Luigi, and all of his other possessions.

Speaker 6 I have his dog. I have his luggage.
He's essentially in a foreign country where he doesn't speak the language and he doesn't have a phone or a laptop or anything.

Speaker 6 So he's kind of in a vulnerable situation where he's essentially homeless.

Speaker 3 Sophie emails him back in the hopes that she can somehow still get her money back. And then

Speaker 6 he just shows up to our house.

Speaker 3 Ken is at the front door of Sophie's parents' house. At this point, Sophie's parents know everything.
They know Sophie thinks Ken's taken money from her.

Speaker 3 And even though they're frustrated she didn't tell them about it earlier, they're supportive of her.

Speaker 6 We are so shocked, first of all, that he's even showing his face because we really thought he would just be gone forever.

Speaker 3 They open the door and step onto the porch, ready to confront Ken.

Speaker 6 The first thing my mom does is she goes up to him and slaps him. She was like,

Speaker 6 How could you do that?

Speaker 6 She cusses him out in like our language because she doesn't really speak English well.

Speaker 3 Ken just stands there, head bowed, apologizing profusely. He's like, yes, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 6 I'm so sorry. He keeps pretending to be this weak person.

Speaker 3 Sophie's infuriated by Ken's performance. He seems so docile, so repentant, as if he wouldn't hurt a fly.
She decides now's her chance to get the truth.

Speaker 6 So then I'm like, okay,

Speaker 6 we're gonna do an interrogation now.

Speaker 6 Okay,

Speaker 6 you're gonna tell me like, where's the money and I need you to give it back to me.

Speaker 3 Sophie says they sit down and she sticks it to him.

Speaker 6 I asked him, well, what is true?

Speaker 6 Like your mom, did she really die?

Speaker 3 Remember, Ken told Sophie his mom died and that that trauma had really affected him.

Speaker 6 And he was like, yeah, she did.

Speaker 6 He then shows me a death certificate.

Speaker 3 Sophie says he does admit that he lied to her about some parts of his family story, like the fact that his dad isn't really the founder of Uniqlo.

Speaker 6 He's like, yeah, my father is not this

Speaker 6 guy, but I do come from a wealthy background.

Speaker 3 Sophie says he assures her that he has a bank account in Switzerland and money in Thailand.

Speaker 3 Sitting in Sophie's family home, he insists if he can just get to Switzerland, he can get the money to pay her back.

Speaker 6 So he gives me hope. At this point, I'm actually still hoping, well, maybe he does have money somewhere.
So this whole time, I just want to get my money back.

Speaker 3 But there's something else, too. As Sophie looks across at him, at this man who has lied to her so much, she feels a twinge in her chest.
Sophie doesn't want to believe it's all a lie.

Speaker 3 Because if she does, then it would mean that all the other feelings she's been feeling were a lie too.

Speaker 3 All the things he told her, all of the ways she trusted a boyfriend that she was intimate with for many months, were completely and utterly fake.

Speaker 6 He kept saying he loved me, right?

Speaker 6 He kept saying he wanted to marry me. All of these things.
So I'm like, well, did he pretend to like me just to get my money?

Speaker 6 And I kind of felt like, no, he didn't. I feel like he did like me.

Speaker 3 Sophie's not ready to believe that she misread his feelings for her. She's not ready for her trust in people to be completely dissolved.

Speaker 3 So, when Ken tells her he's going to pay her back, she gives him one more chance.

Speaker 3 As Sophie watches Ken walk out the door, she really wants to trust him. But she also understands the game now.
She wants to come out of this on top, be made whole emotionally and financially.

Speaker 3 She's not the naive 20-year-old girl Ken met in New York. Not anymore.

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Speaker 2 Terms apply.

Speaker 3 Let's go back to 2019, two years before Ken met Sophie.

Speaker 3 Back when Ken was married to Becca, the Kendall Jenner lookalike, and had been collecting money from her family for an upscale Airbnb platform he claimed to be launching, called Your Sky Investments.

Speaker 3 Becca's father, who did not respond to requests for comment, allegedly gave Ken $100,000. And Becca's grandfather invested $50,000 before he died.

Speaker 3 It was Becca's uncle, Steve Sable, and his wife, Crystal, who tried to get the money back on behalf of Becca's grandfather.

Speaker 10 He just kept stringing along,

Speaker 10 saying, oh, you should be getting a delivery in two days.

Speaker 10 Well, two days come and pass, three days, five days, whatever.

Speaker 3 It must be an impossible situation for their niece, who just married Ken a year prior.

Speaker 10 He's technically almost family right there.

Speaker 10 You know, you don't suspect family. You might suspect a stranger trying to scam you, but you wouldn't suspect that your son's daughter's boyfriend would do that.

Speaker 3 But Steve wasn't going to let Ken get away with the money, so he did what any normal person would. He went to the cops.
Remember, Steve's a detective working in a local police department.

Speaker 3 He goes into work and has an informal chat with his colleagues and lays out the situation. It's like one of the office scenes from The Wire.

Speaker 3 A couple guys sitting around some desks littered with paperwork, leaning back in their chairs and chewing gum.

Speaker 3 Steve tells the cops about his dad and the $50,000 investment and the contract his dad signed saying he'd purchased shares in your sky. All the stuff you heard about in the first episode.

Speaker 3 The guys want to help him. Of course they do.
He's their colleague, their friend. But there's really not a lane for them to go down.

Speaker 10 They really didn't

Speaker 10 want to pursue anything because to them it was a contract, civil matter, and not a criminal matter at this point.

Speaker 3 They tell Steve that because Becca's grandfather signed a contract with Ken, this is a civil matter, not a criminal one. There's nothing the cops can do, even for one of their own.

Speaker 3 Steve keeps badgering his brother and sister-in-law, Becca's father and mother, trying to get his dad's money back.

Speaker 3 Maybe they can be more neutral about the situation, exert leverage against their son-in-law that their daughter, Ken's young bride, wouldn't necessarily be expected to.

Speaker 3 But Steve seems to feel that his brother isn't coming through for him. And then resentment sets in, because fairly or not, Steve blames his brother, Becca's dad, for getting his own father involved.

Speaker 10 He had to realize that was no longer a legitimate business deal.

Speaker 3 Communication has pretty much dried up, with grandpa's money nowhere to be seen. And Ken and Becca are gone too.

Speaker 3 Steve and Crystal want to know, where are they? And then they find a clue on Instagram.

Speaker 3 Because even though the pair have disappeared, Becca is still posting pictures of her glamorous life on social media. Crystal and Steve start examining those photos really, really closely.

Speaker 3 Becca and Ken took pictures of their apartment.

Speaker 12 Our niece then took that picture and did a Google search for for it and found out where they lived.

Speaker 3 In the fall of 2019, they match pictures from Instagram with Google Street View and locate Kennebeca. They're not in California anymore.
Now they're in another Jet Set hotspot. Miami, Florida.

Speaker 3 Picture it. Green palm trees, white beaches, sleek hotels abutting Azure water.
The city of skimpy bikinis, an even skimpier income tax.

Speaker 3 It's a place filled with the sounds of revving engines and ambient dance music, where influencers choke the sidewalks with their photo shoots.

Speaker 3 During this time, Steve and Crystal watch as Becca posts more snapshots. There's a picture of a vintage white Mercedes with the caption, Bend, baby.

Speaker 3 She posts another picture of green foliage in a building with gorgeous columns and Art Deco detailing.

Speaker 3 The caption reads, I don't think I'll be able to adjust to the Florida weather, but I can definitely get used to this.

Speaker 3 There's not much Steve and Crystal can do with this information, other than look on from afar. They're not about to spend more money on a plane ticket to fly down to Florida and confront their niece.

Speaker 3 What are they gonna do? Threaten physical violence? It's just not their style. So what were Ken and Becca really up to in Miami?

Speaker 3 Were they just laying low and doing a poor job of it thanks to Becca's Instagram? Or was Ken up to something else? I tried to look into it.

Speaker 3 I heard that Ken allegedly got into some trouble with the law. I got a hold of a case number allegedly attached to Ken.
We plugged it into the Miami PD's online portal and found something.

Speaker 3 Amazingly, it led to a case under the Economic Crimes Unit. The subject of the case? Fraud.
But the case was closed, which meant we couldn't get any more details.

Speaker 3 So we tried to call the Miami PD to find out more.

Speaker 5 Hi, you've reached the City of Miami Police Department Economic Crimes Unit.

Speaker 5 Sorry, we're unavailable to answer your call at this time, but if you please leave leave a brief message, we will return your call as soon as possible.

Speaker 3 We had the same experience as Steve when he tried to talk to his police officer colleagues. We couldn't get anyone to listen.

Speaker 3 And it turns out, the same thing happened to Rita, the house cleaner who gave Ken $60,000.

Speaker 13 They said what it sounds like is a civil matter,

Speaker 13 but they're not, you know, they're one to say either way. But what I could do is, as soon as we hang up the phone, go to their website and write down

Speaker 13 everything that I just told them. And I got so deflated when he told me that because I was like, this is just going to go into like the matrix.
No one cares. You know, no one cares.

Speaker 3 Rita also never heard back from the authorities. And here's another mindfuck, one you may have guessed already.
But Your Sky never really existed as a company at all. At least not beyond a website.

Speaker 3 But what a website it is. When you click on it, it opens to an image of a pool at sunset.
Over that, there's text reading, luxury unleashed, and bookings at the speed of LA.

Speaker 3 Below that are quotes and lyrics about LA from a bizarre array of artists, singers Elliot Smith and Frank Ocean, and filmmaker David Lynch.

Speaker 3 They're supposed to inspire you, I think, to make bookings.

Speaker 3 And maybe there is something Lynchian about Your Sky. It's uncanny and surreal.
Because it has all the markers of a business, a website, a celebrity investor.

Speaker 3 Ken allegedly said that LeBron James was involved. And according to government records, a company called Your Sky Inc.
was set up in California in 2018.

Speaker 3 In Delaware, there are registered entities under both Your Sky and Your Sky Investments.

Speaker 3 But as far as we know, Your Sky doesn't really seem to have done any business at all.

Speaker 3 Rita blames herself for falling for it.

Speaker 13 It is, it's my fault. I just have to live with with this.
I handed him over the cash. The contract was completely fake.
I should have known that. I should have known better.

Speaker 3 But of course, Rita is far from the only person who fell for Ken's alleged scams. Not by a long shot.
There's Becca's family. There are Rita's friends, who allegedly also invested in Your Sky.

Speaker 3 And I managed to find two others, both smart business guys, who gave Ken around $30,000 combined around the same time as Rita. One invested in your sky.

Speaker 3 The other guy invested in what was supposedly a weed farm. Maybe the weed farm Yorsky was supposed to have turned into?

Speaker 3 Both of these men found lawyers to try to help them get their money back, but nothing ever came of it. It's a lot to keep track of.
Dizzying, actually. The number of people, the amounts of money.

Speaker 3 The more I looked into Ken, the wider the circle of victims grew. And every time, Ken's able to slip through the cracks.

Speaker 3 Maybe because he takes thousands rather than millions, or because he gets people to sign contracts making it a civil matter.

Speaker 3 Maybe because he moves so often that his alleged crimes span different jurisdictions, so no one's able to build a case on him for long. He just disappears, and no one can catch him.

Speaker 3 But back in Germany, Sophie is determined to catch him. So she says after Ken leaves her parents' house and promises her he'll pay her back, she stays at home and Ken keeps in touch with her.

Speaker 6 He kept

Speaker 3 The tattoo of Sophie's name to symbolize his love for her.

Speaker 6 It was massive.

Speaker 3 Under different circumstances, this might have been romantic. But given that Ken owes Sophie tons of money and tattoos are pretty expensive, she doesn't find it quite so cute.

Speaker 6 I was like, well, how did you pay for it? He said, I got it for free. So I actually go to that place and I talk to tattoo people.

Speaker 6 I'm like, hey, by the way, did someone just come here and like get a tattoo of this name? And they said, yeah.

Speaker 6 And they said, wait, are you the girl that he got the name tattooed? I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 6 And he said, oh my God.

Speaker 6 He told us that this was a girlfriend that passed away.

Speaker 6 And that's why we gave it to him for free, because we felt so bad for him.

Speaker 3 It's a process realizing that someone isn't who you thought they were. It's not linear.
And Sophie realizes, once again, that Ken is a master manipulator.

Speaker 6 He was actually promising to pay me back. But he always wanted something in return.

Speaker 6 So he was saying, for example, well, if you meet up with me and talk to me and give me a chance again of us being together, then I'll pay you back this amount, for example.

Speaker 3 Sophie thinks the only way she's going to get her money back is if she beats him at his own game.

Speaker 6 I was like, well, I got manipulated by him for like six months, so I'm going to manipulate him back.

Speaker 6 So I actually pretended to still like him. I pretended to him.

Speaker 6 Yeah, if you can pay me back, we can be together, sure.

Speaker 6 Like, pay me back and like, like, I'll be your girlfriends again.

Speaker 3 So, Sophie says she starts striking deals with Ken.

Speaker 6 If you can pay me back this amount, like, we'll meet up for coffee.

Speaker 3 And miraculously, it works.

Speaker 3 Ken pays her back a portion of what she's owed. Sophie feels a taste of relief.
This bartering is working. And I can't know Ken's mind, but I have to wonder why this is working.

Speaker 3 Is Ken just trying to keep Sophie from more aggressively pursuing him with law enforcement? Is he just doling out money as a way to keep stringing her along, toying with her?

Speaker 3 Is it some sick continuation of the same game? Or is it actually that Ken is more vulnerable than he appears? Maybe he really needs Sophie's affection. And maybe Ken's just lonely.

Speaker 3 So lonely that the only people he has to interact with are people he's already hurt. So lonely he might even be able to convince himself that Sophie will take him back.

Speaker 3 And there's another reason Ken might be feeling particularly friendless. At this point, Sophie still has Ken's dog, Luigi, the little French bulldog with different colored eyes.

Speaker 3 And Ken begs to see the dog.

Speaker 6 He was like, please, I really miss him. Please let me go on a walk with him and I'll pay you another 20k.

Speaker 3 Sophie agrees. She gets the money and they go for a walk.

Speaker 6 This was maybe like in April or something, so like a couple weeks after his initial arrest.

Speaker 3 Sophie and Ken take a stroll.

Speaker 3 Sophie tries to act normal, keep things chill. While they're on this walk, they stop outside a cafe because Sophie needs to use the restroom.
She gives the leash to Ken.

Speaker 6 I went to the bathroom and left the dog with him outside.

Speaker 6 And when I came back,

Speaker 6 he was gone.

Speaker 3 Ken is gone again.

Speaker 3 This time, with the dog. The dog Sophie has been living with for the last six months and come to really love.

Speaker 6 My heart dropped. I'm like, oh my god, I can't trust him.
I can't believe that I actually trusted him for this like brief moment. Of course, I can't.
I'm looking around everywhere.

Speaker 6 I'm asking people on the street, have you seen someone take the dog? Have you seen him? I'm distraught.

Speaker 3 Ken messages her.

Speaker 6 He was like, well, if he wants the dog back, like, you need to see me again. You need to give me a chance.
He's now the one in power.

Speaker 3 Ken won't tell Sophie where he is or where the dog is. Then, Sophie has an ingenious idea.

Speaker 6 I had this idea that I could track his IP address.

Speaker 3 An IP address is a number that reveals where a device is accessing the internet from. Sophie figures if she can find out Ken's IP address, she can figure out his location.

Speaker 6 And I'm like looking up different ways of like how to track someone's IP address.

Speaker 3 One of the methods is to get someone to click on a link, sort of like a phishing scam. And in doing so, that click would reveal their location.

Speaker 6 So I'm thinking,

Speaker 6 how can I make him click on a link? Cause that's kind of suspicious.

Speaker 3 Sophie thinks about the dog, Luigi. Ken knows Sophie genuinely loves this dog.
Even when they were living together in New York, it was Sophie who'd take Luigi out for walks and take care of him.

Speaker 6 So I come up with this idea that I would send him a link to a food website and I would tell him, look, this is the food that I've been buying for him recently.

Speaker 3 He really needs this food.

Speaker 6 It's better for him. Can you like check it out and can you order from there for him?

Speaker 6 So I set up actually like this fake website for pet food. I set it up in like an hour.
I just like put some random pictures there, some random food, because it's my website, my link.

Speaker 6 I can see every visitor that clicks on it. And I can see their location, their IP address.
So I sent him this link to this pet store. I'm like, hey, can you please order food from there?

Speaker 3 That's right. Sophie builds a fake website for a fake store that supposedly sells the dog food she's been feeding Luigi.

Speaker 3 It's her own version of Your Sky, except instead of being a fancy Airbnb, it's a fake pet store.

Speaker 6 When I send it to him, I see a visitor. I see someone clicking on it and I get the IP address.
Obviously, you don't get really the exact, exact location. You get more of a radius.

Speaker 6 But I see on the radius that he was actually near Zurich.

Speaker 3 Zurich, Switzerland.

Speaker 6 So then I'm starting my detective work. I'm looking up all the different hotels in that area.
I start messaging every single one of them.

Speaker 3 She tells them about Ken, about what he's done, and sends a picture of him.

Speaker 6 A lot of them got back to me. They were like,

Speaker 6 No, sorry, we didn't see a person like this,

Speaker 6 but there's this one hotel. It's a very, very cheap one.

Speaker 6 And they're saying he's there. They've seen him.

Speaker 3 Sophie knows where Ken is, and now she's determined to go and get her money and the dog back.

Speaker 3 I am so excited for this spa day.

Speaker 2 Candles lit, music on, hot tub warm and ready.

Speaker 3 And then my chronic hives come back. Again, in the middle of my spa day, what a wet blanket.
Looks like another spell of itchy red skin.

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Speaker 3 So, after Sophie tracks down Ken in Switzerland, she says she gets in touch with Swiss police, and she says the police are interested in Ken.

Speaker 6 We had stayed at this hotel over New Year's, that was in Switzerland, that he scammed.

Speaker 3 This is Sophie's accusation. According to her, Ken hadn't paid the hotel, and she says the police want to question Ken about this hotel situation.

Speaker 3 So, Sophie gets in touch with Ken and uses a familiar bruse.

Speaker 6 I tell him, look, I really want to meet up this and that.

Speaker 6 And he says, okay, well, I'll meet up with you. But I won't meet up with the dog.
Because then you're not really interested in me. You're just interested in that dog.

Speaker 6 I'm like, no, I am. It's fine.
You can leave him.

Speaker 3 So Sophie says she travels to Zurich. She heads to the rough hotel Ken is staying in.
He comes out without the dog. And once again, they go for a walk.

Speaker 6 He keeps telling me lies about how he will eventually pay me back and he wants me to get back in a relationship with him.

Speaker 3 Meanwhile, Sophie has brought along her parents and a friend.

Speaker 6 I told them that the dog would be at the hotel. They go to the hotel, they ask its room number.
With the help of the police, we get access to a room.

Speaker 3 Sophie's parents storm Ken's hotel room and seize Luigi.

Speaker 6 We get the dog back. And while this whole thing is happening, like, I'm out on a walk with him.

Speaker 3 And Sophie says when she and Ken return to the hotel, Ken gets taken in by the police again.

Speaker 6 But again, same situation. They can only hold him for 48 hours.

Speaker 3 We tried repeatedly to get in touch with Swiss police to confirm the details of this case, but we weren't able to get a hold of them.

Speaker 3 Still, what we do know for sure is that once again, Ken got released. But for Sophie, the Swiss adventure would be the last time she she would see Ken in person.

Speaker 3 He keeps messaging her from different numbers. They carry on this dance.
If you pay me back, I'll message you back. If you pay me back, you can stay in contact with me.

Speaker 6 He gradually paid me back probably

Speaker 6 half of it. I probably got paid back like around 50,000, which is great.
So I'm pretty happy about that.

Speaker 3 Sophie says she doesn't completely recoup her loss, but staying in touch with Ken to try and get the rest of the money back is expensive in another way.

Speaker 6 I mean, this was like so emotionally draining for me to just stay in contact with this person. At some point, I was like, look,

Speaker 6 I got a good amount back. I just wanted peace.
It's been so many months. It's like almost summer now.
And I'm like, okay, I'm done with this. I don't want to keep texting with him.

Speaker 6 I don't want to stay in contact. I don't believe anything he says anymore.

Speaker 3 Sophie does tell Ken one more thing before she blocks him for good.

Speaker 6 I did also urge him to pay back the other victims.

Speaker 3 But one major question remains. If Sophie says Ken was able to pay her back $50,000,

Speaker 3 where did he get the money?

Speaker 3 Or maybe the better question is, Who did he allegedly take that money from?

Speaker 3 Next time, on Catch Me If You Can.

Speaker 14 I got really angry at Tim and I started a loud voice telling him, Give me back my money. We didn't have $10,000 to lose.

Speaker 14 And it'd be really nice to have that money back.

Speaker 3 Did you end up giving him the full $100,000?

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 14 Catch me

Speaker 14 if you can.

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Speaker 2 Not on Apple?

Speaker 3 Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen.

Speaker 3 Catch Me If You Can is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and Campside Media in association with Ish Entertainment.

Speaker 3 It's written and hosted by me, Nathalie Robomet, and executive produced by myself and Vanessa Gregoriadis. Our senior producer is Abakar Adan.
Our producer is Julia Case-Levine.

Speaker 3 Our story editor is Michael Canyon-Meyer. And our assistant editor is Emma Simonoff.
We had help from Blake Brooke and Lily Houston-Smith, who managed the production.

Speaker 3 Sound Design, Mix, and Engineering by Mark McAdam. Voice acting for Ken by E.
Wynne Lai Trimuen. Becca by Lily Houston-Smith.
And Sophie by Madison Lanasy.

Speaker 3 The executive producers at Sony Music Entertainment are Catherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch, Josh Dean, Adam Hoff, and Matt Scher at Campsite Media, and Michael Hershor at Ish Entertainment.

Speaker 3 Thanks to Jess Antonini, Joe Mancino, and Reagan Graham. And thanks to Campside's operations team, Doug Slaywin, Ashley Warren, and Sabina Mara.
And thank you for listening.

Speaker 9 It was the spring of 1988, northwestern Alabama. A preacher commits a sin.
a deeply personal transgression. And from there, everything spirals out of control.
The amount of damage this man did is

Speaker 9 incalculable.

Speaker 3 It's still damaging all of us. It still hurts us to think about it.

Speaker 9 From Revisionist History, this is the Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist History: The Alabama Murders, Anyway You Get podcasts.