Adam Kinzinger: Don't Feed the Dictator

Speaker 2 We, the people, in order to form a more perfect union.

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Speaker 3 Hello, and welcome to the Boulder Concast.

Speaker 27 I'm your host, Tim Miller.

Speaker 28 Delighted to welcome back one of our green jacket guests.

Speaker 29 He's a former Republican congressman from Illinois. He's a retired Air National Guard pilot, the founder of Country First.

Speaker 15 And you can find him on Substack.

Speaker 32 It's Adam Kinzinger. What's up, man?

Speaker 33 Hey, what's going on? Good to be with you, man.

Speaker 34 It is good to hang with you.

Speaker 35 I'm sorry to start with some uncomfortable news, though, but I do think we need to talk about it.

Speaker 20 I saw a breaking report from Sparks N123.

Speaker 39 It said this, the FBI sent an official referral to the Justice Department seeking a grand jury to indict Adam Kinzinger.

Speaker 35 He has no explanation for the $108 million he acquired when he joined the January 6th committee.

Speaker 41 Wondering if you have an official statement on this, if you've heard anything from the grand jury.

Speaker 33 Listen, man, I saw that yesterday. And here's the best part about it: is like underneath that comment, there are people that are like, it's about time.

Speaker 33 You know, good.

Speaker 33 I've always wondered. And I'm like, dude, do you guys really believe this? So, no, I haven't received anything to the grand jury.
And you know what, Tim?

Speaker 33 If I had $108 million, I would be in an island right now. I believe in American politics, but $108 million would allow me to walk away from it.
And I might do that.

Speaker 26 I was going to say the thing that pissed me off, and at first I was sad for you and for your family and for your young child that you might be going to jail.

Speaker 44 But after that, I was pissed.

Speaker 6 I was like, why didn't he fly me private to Chicago for a

Speaker 47 live show? I was like, wait, I haven't been invited on any jets.

Speaker 22 You know, I want some of this.

Speaker 33 And here's the best thing to think about: like, okay, let's say if people believe it, who, what, and why would I get $108 million for serving on the January 6th committee?

Speaker 33 But I love how when somebody made it up, they did 108 because it's not like 100 or 50. It's more believable if it's exact.

Speaker 33 So, ladies and gentlemen, let me just publicly say here: I've not received anything from the FBI. I'm not worth $108 million.

Speaker 48 Although, I wish I had a lot of chatter out there, though, about how they're coming for you.

Speaker 33 are you worried at all does does deputy dan have you shaken your boots yeah i mean look it's been i think close to what eight years well since the advent of q that i've been you know people have been threatening to send me to getmo so i have all my plans together i mean you know i've got a prep preferred bunk mate if we need you know and uh but no i haven't heard anything you no longer have a security clearance so they've taken that away several times that i didn't have anyway

Speaker 33 that's the best is like i retired i got out of the out of congress and like, they don't re-I think they realize it. Like, you don't take your security clearance with you.

Speaker 33 It's not like you just have it, right? You lose it with the job. And so I've had it suspended twice.
The non-existent one.

Speaker 51 Congrats. Yeah.

Speaker 32 I saw James Clapper got it suspended again yesterday.

Speaker 53 It's like a free press release for them. I like the serious, and we'll get to actual news.

Speaker 54 Like the serious subjects of this were joking, but like

Speaker 5 something that pisses me off is that

Speaker 40 you occasionally hear people, you know, alibi for people, for Republicans in Congress for business leaders and stuff that they like don't speak out against Trump because they're worried about their safety or because these guys might come for them etc I

Speaker 33 don't know how do you think about all that because you're out there as I mentioned you got a family I hate when I hear that it makes me angry because well first off let's just take away from us right members of Congress and the Senate usually travel to places like Iraq we traveled to Afghanistan you know all these kind of like I I guess I would call them struggling democracies.

Speaker 33 And we meet members of parliament all the time that literally will be assassinated or attempted assassinations have already occurred.

Speaker 33 And they are there fighting for their country, you know, the Iraqi parliamentarian or whatever.

Speaker 33 And so when I hear this at home, it angers me because look, you can make more money and have a better life if you leave the House and the Senate.

Speaker 33 If your concern truly is like, gosh, I don't want death threats. And so I'm going to vote this way to make Trump happy.
Not only are you part of the problem, you are absolutely weak.

Speaker 33 And go find a different job because I promise you that there is somebody that probably believes what you believe, but is willing to stand up to people. Look, here's the thing.

Speaker 33 If somebody's leveling death threats against you, 99.9% of the time, they're bluffing because they're not going to level a threat

Speaker 33 before they do anything. It's just, this is what, it's like Hollywood and politics draw out the crazies, and you have to make a decision.

Speaker 33 If you're going to put yourself in that arena, you have to be willing to stand to the pressure.

Speaker 33 So it infuriates me because there are people that have taken real threats because they've done the right thing.

Speaker 33 And, you know, you take the whatever, the guy from North Carolina, the senator who's, oh, woe is me. Yeah, Tillis, like, fine, dude, quit.
He's quitting. But he's still not taking a courageous stand.

Speaker 8 It's unbelievable.

Speaker 33 The thing I don't get, Tim, is people have to look at them like there is going to be a point at the end of your life where hopefully you have a chance to reflect.

Speaker 33 What do these people think they're going to think of themselves? That's what I wonder.

Speaker 46 It's a great question.

Speaker 36 I don't have a great answer to it.

Speaker 28 And I think a lot of it is that

Speaker 38 the bubbles have gotten so thick that they're like not really even exposed to what a counter view would be.

Speaker 43 Because I was always like, what about the kids?

Speaker 55 It was, you know, during that first term, it was like January 6th, the images, you know, Lafayette Square, whatever, who knows what horrible images we have ahead of us.

Speaker 34 I was always like, you know, if you have young kids, some of these guys are old so maybe their kids are grown they don't care but like but your grandkids young kids grandkids it's like and they're in high school like i think about like what things that i learned about in high school that like i didn't live through like civil rights or something or you know whatever like back at the time there were people obviously that rationalized all this but then you eventually get to a point where it like things get flattened and all you learn is like you just see the pictures and it's like your defense i think is going to be pretty weak in the face of your 15 year old grandchild or child when they're like, wait a minute.

Speaker 66 So, you were on the side of the people

Speaker 46 with the Confederate flags attacking the cops? Like, that was the side you were on?

Speaker 43 And they're like, well, you have to understand it was complicated.

Speaker 66 The president, there was also some Black Lives Matter protesters who did bad things.

Speaker 40 It's like, you know, so I don't, that's the part that I don't really get, but I guess they just don't think about it. Compartmentalization.

Speaker 33 I don't think your grandkids are going to care that you were worried about your re-election.

Speaker 33 I mean, that's the thing is, like, I'll tell people, because, you know, folks will ask me what was the difference between you and other members of Congress in January 6th.

Speaker 33 And I'm like, well, I don't know what the difference is, but I do know, and I consciously thought about this, which is Kinzinger is not a very common last name.

Speaker 33 And so when Christian, my three and a half year old, is learning someday about this, which he will, he's obviously going to read my name in some capacity. I can't blend in and say that wasn't me.

Speaker 33 And so then I've got to sit down with him at some point as his father and talk to him about doing the right thing, about standing alone, about courage, about morality.

Speaker 33 And how can I do that when he can just literally open the history book and say, okay, dad, is this a do-as-I-say, not-as a, not-as-I do thing? Because I'm reading what you did right here.

Speaker 33 And I just don't, I don't understand it.

Speaker 33 And lastly, is like every member of the House and Senate goes when they get elected, and I really believe it's almost every one of them, they like fantasize about this time when they are so compelled by something that their Mr.

Speaker 33 Smith goes to Washington and they stand alone on the Senate floor and they blah, blah, blah. Very few people get an opportunity to do that.
And a fraction of those that do actually do it.

Speaker 33 You can almost get no senators or congressmen to turn against their tribe. I think people fear being excommunicated from their tribe more than they fear even death.

Speaker 55 It's very optimistic that you think Christian will read about what you did, as opposed to having like, you know, a little AI robot Claude tell him, brief him.

Speaker 33 It'll be zoomed into his brain. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 46 Neuralinked.

Speaker 69 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 69 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

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Speaker 2 We the people, in order to form a more perfect union.

Speaker 4 These words are more than just the opening of the Constitution.

Speaker 7 They're a reminder of who this country belongs to and what we can be at our best.

Speaker 9 They're also the cornerstone of MS Now.

Speaker 11 Whether it's breaking news, exclusive reporting, election coverage, or in-depth analysis, MS Now keeps the people at the heart of everything they do.

Speaker 1 Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Saki, and more voices you know and trust, MS Now is your source for news, opinion, and the world.

Speaker 16 Their name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress, and the truth you've relied on for decades.

Speaker 21 They'll continue to cover the day's news, ask the tough questions, and explain how it impacts you.

Speaker 23 Same mission, new name, MS Now.

Speaker 6 Learn more at MS.now.

Speaker 5 All right, let's get into the actual news.

Speaker 41 I guess just biggest picture, I'm curious your take on where things stand in the negotiations via Ukraine, what the Trump's new favorite word, his aspirational tri Lat.

Speaker 31 He like learned the word tri-lat recently, and so now he keeps saying it over and over again.

Speaker 40 What do you think about the state of play?

Speaker 33 Well, let's first off say that Donald Trump put down a marker and said, if we don't have a ceasefire to begin negotiations, there's going to be these massive secondary sanctions. That didn't happen.

Speaker 33 And so automatically at the very beginning, Donald Trump said to Vladimir Putin, here's my red line. Okay, never mind.
I'm going to cross it.

Speaker 33 Vladimir Putin, we all know this, knows how to play Donald Trump probably more than Melania knows how to play Donald Trump. I mean, what we saw in Alaska was disgusting.

Speaker 33 I'm watching some of our conservative friends trying to say that this flyover at the Alaska Air Base was all about showing strength.

Speaker 33 And oh my gosh, I can't believe you had the courage to put a B-2 flying over Vladimir Putin. No, that was a sign of respect.
A flyover is a sign of respect.

Speaker 33 So he rolled out the red carpet for Vladimir Putin, embarrassed himself, emasculated himself on TV.

Speaker 15 So you're saying it wasn't a flex?

Speaker 33 It wasn't a flex. There's no way that was a flex.

Speaker 50 And

Speaker 33 so, you know, he emasculates himself on TV in front of the world.

Speaker 33 And then all of a sudden, Europe, the fact that all of Europe basically had to come to the White House the other day is embarrassing enough because it shows that they don't believe that the president is consistent and they have to be there to strengthen his spine around Zelensky.

Speaker 33 So let's take aside his affection for Russia and just look at him and say, he is so malleable that all of Europe had to come to make sure that he wasn't manipulated.

Speaker 33 Then he walks away in the middle of that meeting to call his friend Vladimir Putin because he wants to be respectful and not call Putin in front of these folks.

Speaker 33 And in the meantime, we have this back and forth about is there going to be a security guarantee? Let's think about something. Ukraine had a security guarantee.

Speaker 33 In 1994, the Budapest Memorandum signed by the UK, the United States, Russia, and Ukraine said, you give up your nuclear weapons.

Speaker 33 We will make sure your territorial integrity stays intact with a security guarantee. Obviously, that wasn't done.
So the question is now: is there a point of a security guarantee? Maybe.

Speaker 33 I have a hard time believing that's going to happen. I have a hard time believing that Putin is going to, you know, acquiesce to U.S.
or European troops there.

Speaker 78 Can we just sit on a security guarantee for a second and then we'll come back to that?

Speaker 53 Because something caught my eye recently.

Speaker 41 One of my competitors in the podcast space, one of the more quasi-normal people on the right, Lobar, Ben Shapiro,

Speaker 65 who, you know, like Ben Shapiro has been coddling up to Trump in somebody was did a fundraiser for him.

Speaker 40 So he's been awful.

Speaker 46 But like on Ukraine, he has opposed Trump from time to time and given a real view.

Speaker 80 You know, he's wanted the U.S. to support Ukraine.

Speaker 81 So I was intrigued to see this little thumbnail cross my screen.

Speaker 12 Could Trump's all caps master stroke end the Russia-Ukraine war?

Speaker 28 Democrats have been bamboozled by Trump again.

Speaker 81 I want to just play for you a little bit about what he thinks the master stroke was.

Speaker 82 But the fact that President Trump is willing to hold Russia's feet to the fire by even talking about these kind of significant security guarantees is a major move from the president.

Speaker 82 And pretending that that's a pro-Russia move is silly.

Speaker 82 If there were a significant security guarantee, a sort of NATO light, an Article 5 light approach to Ukraine in exchange for territorial concessions in Donbass,

Speaker 82 that would be a masterstroke from the president of the United States because otherwise this thing keeps going.

Speaker 65 His voice is awful.

Speaker 49 I don't know how people listen to that. It's like unbearable.

Speaker 32 But anyway, besides that, how about the substance?

Speaker 56 What would be your response to that point of view?

Speaker 33 Well, I agree with him in the extent that if there was an Article 5 type security guarantee, that would be obviously a masterstroke. That's a stupid word, but whatever.
Let's call it that.

Speaker 33 Where I break with him is Donald Trump is not basically saying we're going to do a security guarantee. This is...

Speaker 33 What is it that Weiss calls him, Dim Philby? This is his comment and some people around him. Now, and maybe Donald Trump is willing to do a security guarantee.
That's good. Okay.

Speaker 33 I'm not trying to discourage from that. But this idea that then you have to vacate the Donbass in order to get this security guarantee, if Ukraine makes that decision, that's their decision.

Speaker 33 But it came up, the Institute for the Study of War did a study that said basically for Russia to take the rest of the Donbass at the current rate they've taken everything so far, it would take basically 2 million more men and four years.

Speaker 33 And so it's not like it's just this little tiny area that Ukraine would just be like, okay, you can have a couple of feet here of land.

Speaker 33 It's also an area where there's a pretty extensive defensive belt, which is what they're holding right now, which is very hard for Russia to get through.

Speaker 33 So look, Ukraine can make that decision if they want to. But for us to say it's a masterstroke for Ukraine to give away their land for a security guarantee, it's not a master stroke.

Speaker 33 That's at best a truce. At worst, it's a defeat by Ukraine.
And Ukraine is winning this war. This is the thing, Tim.

Speaker 33 I want you to imagine when we invaded Iraq in 2003, so put your opinion of the invasion aside, and just say, okay, imagine now it's 2006 and a half, and we occupy 20% of Iraq.

Speaker 33 We've lost a million men. We did occupy 35% of Iraq two weeks into the war, but then they kicked us out.
So now it's 20 and we've lost a million men.

Speaker 33 Is there a soul in the world that would say the United States is winning this war or is inevitably going to win this war? No, that is exactly the position Russia is in.

Speaker 33 They've lost, you know, what the second biggest military in the world owns 20% of Ukraine after having 30% of it, losing a million men.

Speaker 33 The idea that they're like on the edge of winning, I've heard this for three and a half years. You have two.
Every month, they're always on the edge of a breakthrough. Ukraine can defend itself.

Speaker 33 And the ultimate way to get to an end of this war is not to feed the dictator. Feeding the dictator never works.
It's to say we are standing with Ukraine. They will defeat Russia.

Speaker 33 And then that compels Russia to the table. This has to be a negotiation, sure, but

Speaker 33 it has to be a negotiation with Russia understanding that they're not going to achieve their goals.

Speaker 68 I got a kick of that when you're like this small little sliver that they pretend like that's a small little sliver they want to take in the Donbass.

Speaker 83 There was a report from the FT.

Speaker 57 Those guys have done the best coverage, I think, of

Speaker 65 the Ukraine conflict, just from a straight news standpoint.

Speaker 33 They have this little anecdote that apparently at the White House meeting on Monday, Zelensky compared giving away donetsk to giving away eastern florida like showed a map to trump and apparently this resonated with him it's like no wait it'd be you would mean we would lose fort lauderdale i don't know that i don't know that we could do that that is like the level of what that we're dealing with here i guess you know the problem is is as americans we have this kind of and i'm guilty of it too this predisposed bias to think of every other country as small and therefore if you look at a map and you see a little bit of red taken away or added it's like, eh, whatever, no big deal.

Speaker 33 It's a small country. Well, Ukraine's the size of Texas geographically.
It's the largest country in Europe. This is not a joke.

Speaker 33 And again, the area that Russia is talking about taking, and let's keep in mind, their initial goal was to take over all of Ukraine in three days.

Speaker 33 But the initial area, the area they're talking about taking is a significantly important area because it's where Ukraine can defend itself best.

Speaker 33 I don't know if it was Weiss on your show or whatever that compared it to the Sudetenland, but it's basically like you would give away the forts and the defensive line.

Speaker 33 And then the question is: what if a security guarantee? Now, isn't an Article 5 NATO thing?

Speaker 33 Do we honestly believe right now, if Latvia or Estonia was attacked, that Donald Trump would follow through on Article 5 and NATO?

Speaker 50 I don't know.

Speaker 8 I don't.

Speaker 43 And the other thing is, do we also the Putin?

Speaker 41 This is the thing I don't understand about this conversation that I just, I feel like people are just throwing around terms like security guarantee and there's no like detail.

Speaker 28 Like, what exactly do you mean?

Speaker 44 Because why would Putin

Speaker 57 if Putin's whole thing is that the root cause of this war was that Ukraine was going to join NATO, which is stupid bullshit or whatever, but if that's like his position, okay, well, then why would he be okay with an essential, what did Ben Shapiro call it?

Speaker 62 Article 5 light, like Article 5 without the name, you know, basically.

Speaker 23 Why would he be okay with that?

Speaker 40 And then there was some discussion I saw in one of these conservative hawk sites are still pretending Donald Trump's a hawk about how like we would do air protection of Ukraine.

Speaker 35 I'm like, really?

Speaker 20 You think that Bannon and the MAGA base are going to be for us flying jets over Ukraine and getting shot at?

Speaker 44 I don't think so.

Speaker 33 They're already freaking out. They're already freaking out about it.

Speaker 33 And I mean, look, you know, I've done some news hits on it, and the question is always, you know, boots on the ground, boots on the ground, which is a stupid term.

Speaker 33 But regardless, would America put boots on the ground? Like, it's this huge red line. Look, America has boots on the ground in Baltics right now.

Speaker 33 I don't know if they actually have a rotation in there, but occasionally we put a rotation in the Baltics.

Speaker 33 And it's 100, 200 troops that could not hold the Russians back, but they exist for one reason because they're a tripwire. The Russians will not attack with U.S.

Speaker 33 troops there because they don't want to trip the whole military.

Speaker 33 And so that's what we're talking about in a security guarantee, but also a security guarantee could be as simple as, hey, we'll give you aid. That's what they're arguing.

Speaker 33 When people argue that we actually held the Budapest memorandum, they're saying that, well, by the fact that we aided Ukraine is that security guarantee.

Speaker 33 So Ukraine, who has a huge mistrust for things like security security guarantees, is going to need to see something on paper. Do you think Vladimir Putin will get there?

Speaker 33 I don't think so, unless Vladimir Putin knows he is going to lose. And this is the only way to prevent like a counteroffensive that's going to kick him out of territories that he occupies now.

Speaker 33 One of the most important reasons for the security guarantee, even beyond just we don't want the war to start again, is we have to rebuild Ukraine. The world has to rebuild Ukraine.

Speaker 33 If you're a company and you want to invest in Ukraine, which by the way is an amazing country to invest in post-war, is your board going to allow you if there is no guarantee that the war is not going to resume?

Speaker 33 No. And so what do you have now? Poverty? You have more mass migration.
You have to have those guarantees so that you can rebuild the country.

Speaker 79 My buddy Jaymart has an article in Politico this morning, basically, saying that, you know, the Putin posture on this is going to continue to be stall, stall, stall, as it has been.

Speaker 21 And that's worked to date with Trump.

Speaker 42 And so, you know, Trump needs a new ultimatum to potentially get him to move, which he might not anyway, but let's just, let's just play that out.

Speaker 42 And that he has this bill, the Graham and Blumenthal bill, with 84 senators co-signing it, which is this kind of maximum pressure sanctions campaign against Putin that's sort of been the sword of Damocles, but the sword is like very high in the sky and nobody's really afraid that it's going to fall anytime soon.

Speaker 51 J.

Speaker 48 Martha James is going to be like, let's bring that sword down right over Putin's head.

Speaker 41 I don't know if that'll work.

Speaker 40 And I don't even know if Jonathan and Graham would go through with it.

Speaker 68 But what do do you think of that?

Speaker 33 From what I understand about the legislation, there are some loopholes, which allows the president

Speaker 33 huge waiver power. And so that's a little worrisome.
But I mean, look, is it going to be the thing that compels Russia immediately? Not necessarily.

Speaker 33 But what it will do is basically take away a significant amount of Russia's financing for the war, which continues. I mean, the thing is, is their economy is teetering right now.

Speaker 33 It doesn't mean that in a week it's going to be the post-you know, the Soviet Union and collapse in 91, but like they have huge inflation.

Speaker 33 They've actually had to pull back on bonuses they're giving to soldiers.

Speaker 33 My good friend Sean Pinner did a, he's a British soldier that was captured by the Russians, but he did a big documentary about how they're recruiting people out of Africa with promises of visas and then, you know, tricking them and putting them into the war.

Speaker 33 And so these people are coming up not knowing. So Russia is very much struggling.
There's a reason they're not doing mechanized assaults anymore because they're out of tanks.

Speaker 33 And so this would be important to basically compel those that are still financing Russia to stop doing that. Is it going to change Russia overnight?

Speaker 50 Probably not, but you know, who knows?

Speaker 33 Because

Speaker 33 Putin is smart enough to recognize his tenuous position.

Speaker 46 Oh, Canada. Hey, y'all.

Speaker 26 We're going on tour this fall.

Speaker 85 We're going up north. I demanded it.

Speaker 86 I wanted to support our Canadian listeners and friends being attacked by this administration.

Speaker 27 So we're going to do the whole deal.

Speaker 85 Mounties, Tim Hortons, maple syrup.

Speaker 78 I'm going to be drinking Seagrams on stage. Is Seagram's Canadian anymore?

Speaker 59 I said that in the last episode, and I think they might have been bought by a multinational corporation.

Speaker 30 Anyway, I'm going to have a Canadian cocktail on stage. You guys can tell me what I should do.

Speaker 85 And

Speaker 15 yeah, we get to all be an allyship against our terrible mega president.

Speaker 29 So come check out me, Sarah Longwell, Canada's favorite, Sam Stein.

Speaker 32 We're going to be in Toronto.

Speaker 31 in September.

Speaker 30 Want to see you there, especially if you're Canadian, but if you're American, you want to go support our friends up north and come hang?

Speaker 32 Would like to see you too.

Speaker 78 If you aren't up for stamping your passport, you can catch me, Sarah, and JVL in D.C.

Speaker 20 or New York City in October as well.

Speaker 29 Anyone can grab tickets or more information now at thebulwark.com slash events.

Speaker 29 They didn't tell me to tell you this in the ad read, but since you're a friend, since I'm looking up for you, I'm letting you know.

Speaker 51 that I was looking at the pre-sales.

Speaker 34 That Toronto ticket's going to be a hot ticket, baby.

Speaker 28 So if you want to go to Toronto, I'd jump on that now.

Speaker 41 You should jump on all of them now, but Toronto in particular.

Speaker 53 Take a look at your schedule, see if you can make it.

Speaker 56 Hope to see you in Toronto.

Speaker 41 Once again, it's thebulwark.com slash events.

Speaker 12 I want to talk about the National Guard some.

Speaker 67 I went off on YouTube yesterday, folks, who missed it on this.

Speaker 38 My National Guard, yours too, I guess Texas, Louisiana is sending people to D.C.,

Speaker 41 National Guard troops. I think Louisiana were sending 135 troops.

Speaker 57 This is, to me, just preposterous in every way.

Speaker 65 We're in hurricane season.

Speaker 42 National Guard is big support on that.

Speaker 81 And also what are they going to do? Like sit outside without any arms outside Union Station, like in their fatigues, looking like that really a good use of our resources.

Speaker 78 So I want to get your take on kind of how the National Guard has been used.

Speaker 84 You wrote about this a little bit in your sub stack, how Trump is undermining the National Guard in America.

Speaker 62 But I just want to start like for people who are listeners who don't know anybody who is in the National Guard, just like talk about what that is, what that job is.

Speaker 80 Because I know that you were in the National Guard for a while.

Speaker 33 Yeah, so basically, the National Guard, and I'll try to keep it at 50,000 foot, they are a reserve component. So they're the reserves federally of a different military branch.

Speaker 33 So I was in the Air National Guard, so we were an Air Force Reserve. So I had a federal commission as a federal officer.
And so I'll get to the second part in a second.

Speaker 33 Army National Guard is a reserve component of the Army. There's also Army Reserves and Air Force Reserves.
But those National Guard components also have a commander-in-chief who is the governor.

Speaker 33 And when they're not under federal orders, they're under the commander of the governor.

Speaker 33 What that does is it allows constitutionally that reserve force to be used by the governor for sandbagging, you know, we know what the guard is used for, riot control, stuff like that.

Speaker 33 When the president activates the guard, they are federal troops at that moment, no different than like the 82nd Airborne.

Speaker 33 If a governor activates them, then they can do all that stuff according to the Constitution.

Speaker 33 So when the president activated the Guard in LA and Governor Newsom did not consent, they were federal troops. They were not National Guard troops.
Okay, clear as mud.

Speaker 33 But the reality is most people join the Guard for a few reasons. Number one, helps pay for college.
Number two, they want to serve their community or it's extra income. you know, or the patriotism.

Speaker 33 And so you do one week in a month, two weeks a year, sure. Now, as an air guard pilot, we did a lot more than that.

Speaker 33 But as your typical guardsman, that's what you do one week in a month, two weeks a year. You go through basic training and everything like a regular Army soldier.

Speaker 38 And what are you doing those two weeks a year? Most of the time you're doing training?

Speaker 33 Yeah, it's usually in the summer. Yeah, usually going to like a camp somewhere and you do like, you know, your maneuvers or your job or whatever it is, basically to stay kind of current.

Speaker 33 And so you may get activated. And when you're activated, keep in mind, every one of these guard soldiers, most of them, have a civilian job.

Speaker 33 You know, maybe a doctor, maybe a nurse, maybe a police officer. When you're activated, you have to leave that civilian job to go to the guard.
And so it's very disturbing to families, right?

Speaker 33 Especially single parents who all of a sudden now have to find childcare.

Speaker 33 It's disturbing to employers and ultimately to people that join the guard that may be on the edge of re-enlisting are going to be like, I can't keep doing this. This is nuts.

Speaker 33 And so it's terrible for recruiting. So you've taken a military force that usually has 90% approval by the American public, and you've made it partisan.

Speaker 33 And these guardsmen and women don't want to be made partisan. And so it's very frightening because, again, the last kind of institution we have in this country that is bipartisan is the military.

Speaker 33 And Trump is doing everything he can to destroy that. Yeah.

Speaker 49 And that is the crazy part about just, again, it's only 130 people only, but they're humans.

Speaker 32 They're Louisiana citizens.

Speaker 62 There's the same number of people in all these other states.

Speaker 32 And it's like, you're taking them away from businesses.

Speaker 85 It's hurting the economy and the community.

Speaker 32 You're taking them away from their families, as you mentioned, like we're back to school time.

Speaker 52 It's like, for what?

Speaker 85 And now you're sending them to DC to make Daddy Trump happy. And then they get there.

Speaker 86 This is not what they're trained to do.

Speaker 3 Like, so what, like, what are these guys doing?

Speaker 32 Like, you see the pictures of them just like sitting outside Union Station in their fatigues, like drinking Gatorade.

Speaker 44 And it's like, well, what, what is this for?

Speaker 33 Yeah. And by the way,

Speaker 33 the only military units that are qualified for this are military police units, which by the way, most of the people activated are not military police.

Speaker 33 But the interesting thing, too, is like the DC Guard, when that was activated, there are a significant number of people that were activated with the DC Guard that were DC cops that have to leave their DC cop job and leave that open to come and sit in the National Guard.

Speaker 26 By the way, this makes sense for people in national security roles.

Speaker 87 I haven't confirmed it, so I just will anonymize it, but I have some tips for people who are in federal government national security roles, you know, who are taken out of those serious jobs and now instead they're patrolling the mall to make sure that there's no littering outside the Washington Monument.

Speaker 33 Yeah, and the worst part about the fact that it's red states that are sending the guard is, again, that's,

Speaker 33 you know, without getting too dramatic, if you ever see a time where there would be like, I'm not going to call it civil war, but real significant differences in the states, you can start seeing a red National Guard and a blue National Guard, a red army, a blue army.

Speaker 33 And even back, and I'll blame the Democrats on this one, back in Trump's first term, he actually had a guard deployment to the border. I was part of that, by the way.

Speaker 33 And blue states were refusing to participate. And that was stupid of them because the guard on the border is actually a pretty important force.
And so it was red states.

Speaker 33 Now you have the opposite of that, where red states are eager to put the guard out and it's creating a real mess. And I just think we're becoming numb to this.
You've talked about this a lot.

Speaker 33 We're becoming numb to this. And that's what frightens me more than anything.

Speaker 78 Do you have any election concerns about this?

Speaker 38 I mean, just as as far as, I don't know, deploying the guard to various places

Speaker 80 ahead of elections next year, I mean, like, there's something I could imagine where, I don't know, maybe there's some protests in Democratic precincts in Texas or whatever.

Speaker 65 And Abbott's like, okay, we've got to station some dudes in fatigues outside polling places, intimidate people.

Speaker 41 Maybe there are even more nefarious things that could be done.

Speaker 84 I don't know.

Speaker 74 Where are you at on that?

Speaker 33 It's not something that keeps me up at night, but it's not a 0% chance. I think we have to be aware of it.
I would caution people, don't be hysterical about this.

Speaker 43 No, I'm not there too.

Speaker 34 That's why I keep like trying to dial in, focusing on something that we know they've already tried that I think they might try again, which is a post-election, I'm not certifying.

Speaker 79 Yes. You know, now we're getting into dystopian fantasy, but like.

Speaker 33 We're already there. We're already in dystopia.

Speaker 88 Yeah.

Speaker 29 So we should at least plan for it, which is Democrats win, you know, narrowly, maybe some of the gerrymandering Texas backfires a little bit because the Hispanic districts sort of revert back towards how they were voting in Democratic times.

Speaker 42 Democrats win the House narrowly

Speaker 57 and they say that it was fraud, right?

Speaker 41 And then there are protests and then you're deploying the National Guard to tamp down the protests.

Speaker 81 That is not a crazy scenario to me.

Speaker 41 And that one is more realistic, I think.

Speaker 33 It's not crazy. And what else isn't crazy is

Speaker 33 red states saying, oh, gosh, this high crime area of big city A here, we're going to put the National Guard in to secure that for the election.

Speaker 33 And look, in reality, in a lot of poor communities in the city, they have a lot of mistrust for guys in uniform.

Speaker 33 And so is having a couple of military guys at the polling station going to encourage them to go vote, or will they just take a pass that day?

Speaker 33 That's the kind of voter suppression thing I think we should worry about a little bit.

Speaker 27 All right.

Speaker 79 I want to talk a little bit about MAGA communism.

Speaker 18 A little exaggerated, but it is noteworthy when you start seizing the means of production.

Speaker 78 The U.S.

Speaker 85 government has a plan to acquire a 10% equity stake.

Speaker 31 So not 100%,

Speaker 31 but a 10% equity stake in Intel.

Speaker 29 The plan here is then for the White House to put pressure on other tech companies to buy Intel chips or use its foundry, either by twisting their arm, making a compelling national security case, or via an array of carrots and sticks.

Speaker 31 Seeing the government using carrots and sticks against American companies to buy chips in a company that the government is taking a stake in.

Speaker 31 Scott Besson confirmed that they're in talks to do this on TV yesterday and

Speaker 42 said the plan is to take the loans that were going to be included in the Chips Act and convert them into an equity stake.

Speaker 51 It seems like socialism to me.

Speaker 46 Totally.

Speaker 33 I mean, and here's the scary thing, or the sad thing, or the whatever thing, is that they're not even hiding it. It's not like they're trying to convince us it's something else.

Speaker 33 They're bragging about it. Donald Trump, with this started with the whole

Speaker 33 Japanese steel, U.S. steel,

Speaker 33 Nippon, yeah. And he called it the golden share.
United States now is a golden share. I didn't like that, but I guess that wasn't necessarily egregious because of some national security interests.

Speaker 33 This is worrisome. And this is basically the president feeling powerful.
This is the federal government having a significant seat on the board of private companies.

Speaker 33 And that is no different than what you you see in at least socialism, right? Real socialist countries, that's what you see. If this was Obama doing it, I mean, it's the old stamp.

Speaker 33 If this was Obama doing it, there'd already be riots on the street by the right. But since it's their God doing it, they think it's brilliant.

Speaker 79 Yeah, you know, Obama giving startup funds to Solyndra was like the end of the capitalist system.

Speaker 51 Yeah.

Speaker 78 And I was against that, by the way, but like, okay, you know, I mean, that was just the government giving investing.

Speaker 33 We did investigation on this.

Speaker 33 That was legitimate government investment you can you can talk about whether that was good policy or bad policy but that wasn't that wasn't the government owning solyndra right and typically when the government helps you know like whether it's with the CHIPS Act or like nuclear, for instance, we have loan guarantees, which means we will loan you the money.

Speaker 33 We can guarantee that money because we recognize it's high risk, but we want paid back and we don't have an ownership stake. That's how you do stuff like this.

Speaker 33 If Intel needs the government's money, you could do a loan guarantee, but not this. And I don't know.

Speaker 33 I haven't heard the Democrats talk about this, but that's a whole nother subject, which is what are they talking about? And, you know, will the American people buy it? Anyway, will they care anyway?

Speaker 50 I don't know.

Speaker 43 Let's talk about the Democrats actually.

Speaker 53 We just real quick on the bullet because I just want to sit on this for one more second because I haven't talked about it yet on the pod.

Speaker 30 Like, the fact that they're all already just signaling that it's going to be government bullying.

Speaker 61 And like, that's the other thing that it's whatever word you want to use, whether it's authoritarian country, socialist country, the idea that the government itself would pick a winner, pick a company that it would have investment in.

Speaker 53 And then it would go and pressure the other companies in the supposed free market system and say, hey, you got to use ours, you know, or else you're going to get hit with this tariff on the backside, or else you're going to get this.

Speaker 44 And like that is

Speaker 83 at least a step towards how the Chinese system of communist capitalism works.

Speaker 46 What to us?

Speaker 20 Like it's like this fake market system, state-run market system.

Speaker 45 And like they're just like throwing out there, like that is the, that is their plan for Intel and the chip makers.

Speaker 33 Yeah. And as bad as this is by the government for what they're doing, and you're right, I'm sure there's differences between the Chinese system, but it's pretty close.

Speaker 33 But I also blame the corporations, the companies that are going to acquiesce to this, right? I mean, at some point, you have to resist.

Speaker 33 I don't know what Intel's like rules are here, but Intel should be like, hell no. You know, we're not going to have any part of the government owning this.

Speaker 33 All these companies, all these law firms, all these universities, they're acquiescing to authoritarianism.

Speaker 33 And so that's why we're seven months into the president's administration and we're hit with, it's called an OODA loop. It's a quick military thing.
It's like a decision circle.

Speaker 33 And your goal is to get inside of your enemy's decision circle. Trump is inside of our decision circle every day.

Speaker 33 Every time we're about to complete that circle, something new comes in and we have to start over.

Speaker 37 Yeah, I mean, the Chinese, you know, like they took over Alibaba.

Speaker 6 So like, we're not all the way to China.

Speaker 38 Donald Trump hasn't, you know, seized Amazon from Jeff Bezos because Washington Post wrote him a negative article.

Speaker 69 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 69 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

Speaker 69 Our hope is to inspire, educate, and remind each other that even in the toughest moments, we're not alone. We'll hear from people like Corbin Whittington.

Speaker 71 After being diagnosed with both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 74 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 77 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 We the people, in order to form a more perfect union.

Speaker 4 These words are more than just the opening of the Constitution.

Speaker 6 They're a reminder of who this country belongs to.

Speaker 7 and what we can be at our best.

Speaker 9 They're also the cornerstone of MS Now.

Speaker 11 Whether it's breaking news, exclusive reporting, election coverage, or in-depth analysis, MS Now keeps the people at the heart of everything they do.

Speaker 1 Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Saki, and more voices you know and trust.

Speaker 13 MS Now is your source for news, opinion, and the world.

Speaker 16 Their name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress, and the truth you've relied on for decades.

Speaker 21 They'll continue to cover the day's news, ask the tough questions, and explain how it impacts you.

Speaker 23 Same mission, new name, MS Now.

Speaker 6 Learn more at MS.Now.

Speaker 15 All right, let's talk about invading their decision circle back.

Speaker 20 I guess just open-ended question about what you think.

Speaker 5 You were in the House, what you think House Democrats should be doing as they're returning here soon?

Speaker 33 So look, I, the one thing, and I've served in the minority in the majority, and the minority, they say, you know, the one thing you have is your, your voice. That's, that's your weapon.

Speaker 33 It's your, your ability to get a message out there. Democrats are a little different right now because they have such a close majority.

Speaker 33 The Republicans have such a close majority that they do have options. Here's the thing is,

Speaker 33 let's go back to the very beginning of the year.

Speaker 33 You know, people like you and I were screaming after Donald Trump was elected until he was sworn in, like, get your horses in a row because he's your ducks in a row because he is going to assault the government.

Speaker 33 And they didn't. So Doge is implemented.
What happens? Congress is sworn in. Trump is sworn in.
Congress goes home for two weeks and Doge is on fire.

Speaker 33 And the Democrats should have come back, but they were on vacation. And truly, trust me, it sucks if you're on vacation and you get called back.
I've been there. They should have come back.

Speaker 33 They should have demanded entry into every building where Doge was because they have a right to that, their oversight as government.

Speaker 33 And when they got rejected, they should have walked to the DC district court and gotten a court order to have entry in this. They should have done that every day.

Speaker 33 You know, that's the kind of street fighting you have to do in politics to get a message out. It's all about visual.

Speaker 33 It's all about, I don't know what the Democrats' message is about the big, beautiful bill, besides calling it the big, ugly bill.

Speaker 6 Medicaid cuts are bad.

Speaker 33 Yeah, in 2010, we were elected. I got elected on the stimulus package and Obamacare.
And you remember that one speech where Boehner is standing there and he goes, did you read the bill?

Speaker 33 Hell no, you didn't. And he throws it down.
Iconic.

Speaker 33 15 years later, we're still thinking about it. Where is that moment with the Democrats? This is the worst bill to ever pass the House of Representatives.
And I don't see it.

Speaker 33 Now, look, there are people that are doing God's work and trying their hardest. And the frustrating thing about being in the minority is it's hard to get that message out.
But

Speaker 33 I just don't see it. And there's got to be better coordination to get it done.

Speaker 33 And lastly, look, here's the other problem is Democrats are dealing with what Republicans dealt with, which is they have their own internal battles.

Speaker 33 You have your left that is mad in the center, the center who's mad at the left. And it's like in Venezuela, the opposition against

Speaker 33 Maduro just never got its act together.

Speaker 10 If you, you know,

Speaker 36 were given a magic wand and were like, hey, you could control the Democrats' actions and thoughts, like, is there a particular issue that you think that they should be leaning in on right now?

Speaker 33 Yeah, I mean, I think the Big Beautiful bill is one because that's everything.

Speaker 33 That's massive and it's very unpopular. But here's another example is the corruption.

Speaker 33 So, you know, we know and we've all forgotten that, you know, we got a free $400 million jet from Qatar that the U.S.

Speaker 33 government is spending a billion dollars now to retrofit that will go to Trump when he's out. It will be his jet.
That is stunning corruption.

Speaker 33 Here's what I would do if I was Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer.

Speaker 33 I would make public statements to the government of Qatar before they gave that plane away, to any government that maybe holds American citizens without trial as an example.

Speaker 33 Any government, you need to understand that we will be in charge in a year and a half and in four years, and we will not forget and hold you accountable for any corruption you cause in this country.

Speaker 33 And that way you have Qatar sitting there thinking, well, maybe it's not worth a $400 million jet because if the Democrats are in charge in three and a half years, we're going to pay for that tenfold.

Speaker 33 El Salvador, same thing. These different countries might think twice about that corruption.

Speaker 33 And the other thing that does is the Democratic leaders now are not just defending American kind of, you know, non-corruption, but they're sending a message to the American people of what their agenda will be by actually doing that agenda.

Speaker 33 I think that's essential.

Speaker 33 And anytime you put Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries together at a press conference, making a comment to a foreign government, that's going to get news and that's going to cut through.

Speaker 32 I think the corruption stuff is good to go after.

Speaker 34 When Hakeem was on Friday, you know, the various feedback that people had about

Speaker 42 his thoughts with the internal Democratic stuff, I thought he was good on talking about bringing Christy Noam forth. If they get in, that she's going to be the first one subpoenaed.

Speaker 42 I thought that was good.

Speaker 40 And I think that it's right for them to go after immigration, which is a change from the Democrats since the beginning of the year.

Speaker 81 And I think a change from Jeffries, even from his posture at the beginning of the year.

Speaker 66 The corruption part, it was like, he was saying he agreed with us on it, right?

Speaker 21 But I just think we need actions to match it, right?

Speaker 21 And if I'm out there, if I'm Raskin or Garcia or these guys, it's like signaling to, you know, we talked about yesterday with Kirk Patrick, like investors, if you want to even call it that,

Speaker 5 bribe givers to Trump's fake coins, you know, should know that they're going to have subpoenas, right?

Speaker 11 I mean, you see this, like, this is why there's this asymmetry where you hear people say, oh, they're, you know, some corporations, some groups are afraid to do certain things because they think that Trump will come after them.

Speaker 32 Well, I had Chris Murphy when he was on was saying that some big Democratic donors are on the sidelines because they just don't want to be hassled, right?

Speaker 50 Yeah, I believe it.

Speaker 60 Well, I believe it too.

Speaker 11 So the Trump, the people that are putting money into Trump businesses should start to have the same fear.

Speaker 8 Yes. Right.
Yes.

Speaker 33 This is it. And this is like, look, I hated as a Republican, I hated how we did oversight because we were hysterical.
Everything was the biggest issue.

Speaker 33 Fox News, you know, had their outrage of the day. But let me say this, it worked.
It worked. It obviously worked.

Speaker 33 And so now, as Democrats, here's where I think there's an asymmetry too, which is, yeah, Republicans care about careers and stuff, but

Speaker 33 they're really kind of in this for whatever their principle is or whatever the thing they want.

Speaker 33 Democrats, a lot of times, they get very comfortable in their seat and they want to just kind of maintain their seat. And it's not every Democrat.
There's exceptions, et cetera.

Speaker 33 But I've seen this where you'll have a chairman of a committee that's been there for 40 years simply because he or she has seniority.

Speaker 33 Republicans didn't use seniority as a determination to make chairman. We made who was better at raising money and who was more articulate, and that's effective.

Speaker 33 That's what the Democrats, so yes, out there even today saying, okay, Intel, just so you know, if you give up 10%, I don't know what Intel's role in this is, but as an example, Intel, you give up 10%, we will haul you in front of our committee and have a month-long of hearings about why you did that.

Speaker 33 And then you at least counter the pressure.

Speaker 33 And it's not just about the politics even.

Speaker 17 You at least have to give us your emails, like show

Speaker 30 their communications.

Speaker 43 Who made the, who suggested this? What did they, what were they doing?

Speaker 6 What were they offering, right?

Speaker 33 Was there a quid pro quo? Yeah. Those kinds of questions.
That's what they've got to be doing now.

Speaker 69 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 69 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

Speaker 69 Our hope is to inspire, educate, and remind each other that even in the toughest moments, we're not alone. We'll hear from people like Corbin Whittington.

Speaker 71 After being diagnosed with both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 74 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 77 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 We the people, in order to form a more perfect union.

Speaker 4 These words are more than just the opening of the Constitution.

Speaker 6 They're a reminder of who this country belongs to.

Speaker 7 and what we can be at our best.

Speaker 9 They're also the cornerstone of MS Now.

Speaker 11 Whether it's breaking news, exclusive reporting, election coverage, or in-depth analysis, MS Now keeps the people at the heart of everything they do.

Speaker 1 Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Saki, and more voices you know and trust, MS Now is your source for news, opinion, and the world.

Speaker 16 Their name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress, and the truth you've relied on for decades.

Speaker 21 They'll continue to cover the day's news, ask the tough questions, and explain how it impacts you.

Speaker 23 Same mission, new name, MS Now.

Speaker 6 Learn more at MS.now.

Speaker 27 All right, former Republican hot minute for you and me right now.

Speaker 78 We have a new baseline drop today on the debt.

Speaker 34 It's heading to 120% of GDP and deficits of 2.6 trillion. The One Big Beautiful Bill Act adds a whopping $4.6 trillion to the 10-year deficit.

Speaker 78 The new tariffs, if they remain

Speaker 42 in effect, subtract $3 trillion from the American people, debt will grow faster than before through 2030 and then keep growing.

Speaker 80 And that's a new analysis that's out this morning.

Speaker 32 I'm curious for you just to riff on that for a minute.

Speaker 44 And also,

Speaker 9 you know, assuming we ever get out of this mess, like the tariff thing is now creating a future pickle, right?

Speaker 63 Where if you want to get rid of these painful tariffs, then you're going to have to deal with the debt a different way.

Speaker 81 And that's going to create some pain.

Speaker 33 Totally. We used to believe as Republicans that economic growth was the biggest driver of revenue.
I still actually believe that. If tariffs hurt growth, which they will, they don't help growth.

Speaker 23 Let's at least say that.

Speaker 33 then you're obviously losing revenue on that delta, on that growth. So, okay, let's say we're still gaining revenue from the tariffs.
The debt is out of control.

Speaker 33 I mean, the thing is, is like when I was in, we were 10, 15 trillion. You know, COVID skyrocketed the debt.

Speaker 33 And COVID should have been the moment when Republicans said, look, our orthodoxy of tax cuts by any means at any cost needs to be thought about because we just doubled the national debt basically in about five years.

Speaker 33 And at some point, the debt reaches a point where there is no way to grow out of it. You've got to raise taxes.
You've got to do that. And they are unwilling to leave that orthodoxy.

Speaker 33 The fact that we're spending more now in interest than on national defense is stunning.

Speaker 33 And I actually, when I saw that a year ago, it was the first time I realized that we had actually broken that point.

Speaker 33 That was shocking to me because you could imagine if we didn't have a debt, as an example, we could spend $1.6 trillion on the military, or we could all have money back, or we could double our investment in care.

Speaker 33 This is a mess. Republicans are not the party of fiscal responsibility and I would certainly encourage Democrats.

Speaker 33 You don't have to be like we need to cut everybody's benefits, but be the party of fiscal responsibility. And you can do that through increased revenue.

Speaker 33 But I think this is going to be a big issue probably by the end of Trump's presidency. I think we're going to cross some kind of a real Rubicon here.

Speaker 44 Concur. All right.

Speaker 38 We've got rapid fire three fun topics.

Speaker 9 Well, depending on your definition of fun.

Speaker 36 I want to start with this.

Speaker 78 Have you seen the Secretary of Defense doing pull-ups?

Speaker 32 He's been posting some videos of himself doing pull-ups.

Speaker 35 I'd like for you to give me a little play-by-play analysis of it.

Speaker 33 Listen, listen, Tim. I don't know.
I don't know. He could have been on pull-up number a thousand, okay? But let me just say this.

Speaker 33 First off, the one thing you learn in the military is if you do underhand pull-ups, That's what the girls are allowed to do. The guys do overhand pull-ups.
And in that video, RFK Jr.

Speaker 33 is doing overhand pull-ups. Pete is doing underhand pull-ups.
and he's like hoinking around his legs to try to hoist himself up because he can't get up on his own power.

Speaker 33 So look, I mean, you know, great, good job working out. But, you know, in an environment where alpha males rule and your image is everything, that was a pretty big violation of that today.

Speaker 53 Kind of a gender-affirming care a little bit on which type of pull-up that he was doing.

Speaker 46 You might want to call it that.

Speaker 33 It's a little reinforcement. You really are strong, Pete, even if it is underhand.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm not a big pull-up man, man, but I'm not bragging about it.

Speaker 16 You know, it's kind of a put-up or shut-up type thing, you know?

Speaker 18 If you're going to talk about your masculinity, you should at least be able to do overhand pull-up, I would think.

Speaker 33 And by the way, I mean, if you have no upper body strength, but you're allowed to jerk your legs around to the level he did, you could do as many pull-ups as you wanted. It's just using movement.

Speaker 46 You can get it, Pete.

Speaker 90 I don't know if you can.

Speaker 33 And it was like seven-inch movement total. His chin didn't really get all the way up over there.

Speaker 46 He was really stretching the neck.

Speaker 34 All right. Good try, Pete.

Speaker 30 Nice try.

Speaker 43 I've got another one for you.

Speaker 51 And I just want to say before we start this,

Speaker 61 I'm

Speaker 78 98.7% of the time against outing.

Speaker 15 So I just, I'm against outing.

Speaker 44 Okay.

Speaker 26 And I don't, you know, sometimes I think that libs get a little overexcited about their allyship with gays and they start to feel free to do outing when they don't, when it's not their fight.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 52 So

Speaker 26 I will just say that.

Speaker 61 That doesn't mean we can't do teasing.

Speaker 78 And I have a story from the Daily Mail this morning.

Speaker 6 I do have to read to you.

Speaker 20 One D.C.-based male escort described having a two-year relationship with a sitting Midwestern Republican congressman.

Speaker 8 Oh, God.

Speaker 78 Who during that period had multiple serious girlfriends? The 29-year-old sex worker with boy next door looks described dinners at downtown D.C.

Speaker 66 eatery Butterworth's, which is a very popular MAGA hangout.

Speaker 44 It is. And he said that was followed by late nights.

Speaker 59 The congressman is now engaged to a woman.

Speaker 33 Wait, wait, do we know? So he's not naming them.

Speaker 78 He's not naming them, but you are a Midwestern congressman.

Speaker 18 Can we rule you out?

Speaker 33 Yeah, you can rule me out.

Speaker 46 Okay.

Speaker 61 Do you have any other thoughts? Do you have any other friends in Congress who were kind of?

Speaker 33 Yeah,

Speaker 33 it's going to end up being a surprise, I guarantee you. But I mean, if he's taking this dude to Buttersworth, like, you'd think, what's he? They obviously have to have a cover story.

Speaker 33 Like, he works for me or something like that.

Speaker 36 I'm telling you, you can kind of tell.

Speaker 52 Aaron Schock had cover stories back in the day, you know, about his, his staff was, was very muscled, great teeth, you know, they all had kind of a similar look about them.

Speaker 47 And maybe it was just a coincidence, you know.

Speaker 66 So cover stories, sometimes there are some weaknesses in your cover story.

Speaker 33 Listen, I think if this is true, if this male escort's telling the truth, it's probably not going to be long until this comes out.

Speaker 33 Because if I actually sat down with a list of Midwest congressmen who just got engaged to women,

Speaker 33 I'm sure it's down to one or two.

Speaker 46 It's a short list.

Speaker 33 I just don't know, but I'm sure it's not.

Speaker 43 Was there gossip about this back when you were there about kind of the

Speaker 59 closeted

Speaker 47 thing?

Speaker 33 I mean, you'd hear that sometimes. Like, that rumor was like right when I got elected, that was the rumor about me because I was single.
And, like, so everybody kind of gets it at some point.

Speaker 33 But, like, no, I haven't heard of anybody recently, but I've been out for two and a half years. So

Speaker 33 you've seen somebody else.

Speaker 46 Just to be clear, we don't want anybody clicking on Congress.

Speaker 47 Don't let anybody clip on that. I've been out of Congress.

Speaker 44 We can hear Christian yelling in the background. So we know that you've sired a child successfully.

Speaker 19 What about Shock?

Speaker 51 Were you guys, because you guys are the same year, right?

Speaker 33 Same state, same year. Yeah, no, he actually was elected

Speaker 33 two years before me or four years before me. He was actually really helpful to me.
And he's a good reason I got elected.

Speaker 33 And yeah, I mean, you know, he's out, obviously, now, but that was kind of like, it was a big mystery at the time, you know, because gone full mega, which is pretty dangerous.

Speaker 78 And I called him and I was like, it was a different moment.

Speaker 85 This wouldn't work now in 2024.

Speaker 6 I'll review.

Speaker 56 This will be a nice little gossip reveal for our listeners.

Speaker 55 I had one conversation with him besides a hello at the gay bar back in the time.

Speaker 56 And it was like just asking for advice or whatever.

Speaker 43 And I was like, dude.

Speaker 60 This is when it was, I forget, I don't think the scandal had happened yet.

Speaker 5 I think this was like during the period where I didn't get get my timeline right, but we're like people started to realize he was gay or maybe come out.

Speaker 8 So he wasn't gay.

Speaker 49 But it was like people knew.

Speaker 62 And

Speaker 57 it was coming.

Speaker 20 And we did not know about the

Speaker 57 financial scandal, about how he did his office up as like at like, what was that show?

Speaker 68 Downtown Abbey Downton Abbey office.

Speaker 10 It was before that.

Speaker 44 Anyway, and I'm just like, dude, come out.

Speaker 66 You're from fucking Illinois.

Speaker 44 Move back to Illinois.

Speaker 11 Run as a moderate Republican for like a Bruce Rauner style, Mark Kirk, you know, Nate Flash from the past style Republican.

Speaker 78 And like, don't vote against gay shit.

Speaker 19 And you could probably do it. Like, you could have, and I stand by that.

Speaker 42 Like, eventually that would have not worked because, like, once Trump comes around 2016, you have to go full MAGA or nothing eventually, like 2018, 2020.

Speaker 41 But

Speaker 38 didn't take my advice. Now he's in West Hollywood hanging out with MAGA gays.

Speaker 81 It is what it is.

Speaker 33 Yeah, just be yourself, man. I mean, that's the big thing is like you realize in life is, you know, all of us wear masks to some extent.
And it's like, all that does is it's destructive.

Speaker 33 It destroys you. And the more masks you can take off, the better.

Speaker 43 That's great advice, Adam. And that takes us into our final topic, which was an uplifting topic.

Speaker 88 I figured we'd shovel some laughs.

Speaker 36 You did a sub-stack with a guy named Jason Riddle.

Speaker 50 Yeah. Talk to people about that.

Speaker 33 Listen, this is, I've kind of done this series of people that left MAGA. And, you know, Pam Hemphill, who was at January 6th, and now Jason Riddle, he was arrested at January 6th.

Speaker 33 The dude was basically deep into alcohol, got fired from jobs. His marriage to his husband was like really on the rocks.
Husband was about to leave him.

Speaker 33 And, you know, and he ends up basically in the Capitol raiding a liquor cabinet. I did joke with him.
I'm like, it's not hard to find a liquor cabinet in the Capitol.

Speaker 33 But he ended up going home, you know, kind of is made a hero, ends up serving time in jail. He was a correct.

Speaker 64 He made a hero inside MAGA.

Speaker 33 Yeah, inside MAGA. And at one point, he was a corrections officer and actually ends up going to the jail he was a corrections officer in.

Speaker 33 And to make a long story short, eventually he's kind of looking at a prisoner who's having a detox from alcohol and realizes that's going to be me someday, gets kind of forced sobriety because of, you know, his parole from January 6th, and in essence, starts to see life very clearly.

Speaker 33 And it's one of the most raw and real interviews I've ever done with anybody where he talks about what are the things that drew him to MAGA. And I'll give you a little spoil alert.
It's not issues.

Speaker 33 And that's the thing. They don't care about issues.
It's belonging. It's like community.

Speaker 33 It's purpose. That's what MAGA is, which is why they can be so inconsistent in what they believe.
And he talks about that.

Speaker 33 So I would really encourage people to, it's on YouTube as well, but my sub stack, take a look. And I think you'll learn a lot from it, honestly.

Speaker 61 Was there any last thing? Was there any

Speaker 62 you know, insight into, I mean, was his awakening just like sobriety and the scales falling from his eyes?

Speaker 67 Or was there, you know, something that we could learn as far as talking to other people in his boat?

Speaker 33 Yeah, I mean, look, the one thing he said is, so he had mentioned another guy, Brandon Fellows, and he said he ended up in prison and ended up kind of getting surrounded by this MAGA group.

Speaker 33 And so he's still unabashedly kind of pro, you know, stop this or pro-stop the steal. And whereas Jason was kind of in a different path.

Speaker 33 So I think what we can learn is if somebody shows an openness to leaving or they left, you have to embrace them in community.

Speaker 33 And I mean, I don't mean that to sound all soft and sensitive, but you have to embrace them in community because I see too many people on the left.

Speaker 33 I even see it in the comments I do, which is like, well, he never should have done it in the first place, right?

Speaker 33 And

Speaker 33 look, people can come to realize they've done wrong and we have to be willing to forgive them. That is Donald Trump's superpower, by the way, is he'll forgive anybody.
He'll forgive anybody once.

Speaker 33 And we have to be willing to wrap people in community because I think that's more than anything else, what drives people to MAGA is isolation and loneliness. And it gives them a sense of purpose.

Speaker 33 He talked about one of the things he mentioned, he had 5,000 Facebook followers, and he mentioned to him how that was his identity.

Speaker 33 Because, you know, at one point he came to realize, like, they don't even know me. I don't know them.
But for a long time, that was his identity.

Speaker 33 I have 5,000 people that are relying on me to give them the truth. And that's, you know, that's a reality.

Speaker 85 You know, we've gone full live when we're talking about embracing community.

Speaker 30 That's right.

Speaker 46 I know.

Speaker 35 All these, All this other new woo-woo lingo me and Adam are learning in middle age.

Speaker 15 Buddy, it's always good to talk to you.

Speaker 34 Everybody, go check out his sub stack.

Speaker 36 And for listeners, we'll be back tomorrow. I had two guests I wanted to get on this week, and I wanted to talk to both of them so badly.

Speaker 40 We're just going to do a doubleheader tomorrow. So it's going to be a good one.
Stick around. We'll see you all then.

Speaker 91 Peace.

Speaker 92 The sun tried to understand.

Speaker 91 The gun made me understand.

Speaker 91 The rain tried whispering the warning The land shaking plus the rhythm is enormous All the forces like a portal to a vortex Connected to the stars just projecting where we part at pull it where you park at aim a little dark

Speaker 92 Where you'll bark at It'd be a shame if you stayed in them apartments Twill barely even came to them apartments Catch a play and then parlay in them apartments I swear it's like a party every day in them apartments You was raised in them parties dang jump a shot or join a gang in them part means.

Speaker 91 My mama says we gotta get away from them part measure.

Speaker 92 It's graves in them parts, and it ain't gotta end this way.

Speaker 47 Cause we ain't start shit.

Speaker 90 I don't give a fuck about no industry beef. Ain't nobody give a fuck when Tay was dead in the street.

Speaker 94 I don't do the shit you see on the screens.

Speaker 90 I've been tapped in with true things. I peep your rap cap and I unscrew things.
I don't give a fuck about them niggas at the top.

Speaker 91 The biggest nigga on the block still get shot.

Speaker 90 Pop, you thinking pop?

Speaker 91 I'm thinking.

Speaker 47 Can't talk about that shit from

Speaker 47 you seen Fox.

Speaker 94 Lee's son Al Gaib, I see a tiny line of silver. A way to make a play, although they say it's unfamiliar.
It's off the kilter, I say the words without a filter.

Speaker 94 You gotta have nerve, it'll make you strong if it don't kill ya.

Speaker 94 I'll put a bullet and bob the fucking building for they try and kick us out the building. What about the children?

Speaker 94 When I check a news channel, I get a similar feeling, but still, we gon' make it to heaven, high water, or hell. But don't take the highways 285 behind the damn wheel, it's like a driveway.

Speaker 94 Even now, I could give Christ, and I do it twice. Shot Gil Chris, heard thunder hit with lightning, and still I didn't feel shit.

Speaker 94 Talk about resilience off of Stone Mountain Lock Thomas, where I hone into my brilliance. It was after then, I took my talents right up to Virginia.

Speaker 94 Heard they said that she for love, but shit was good, her shit was gritty. I could tell you what it was, but let Brooks tell you what I'm missing.
Pay attention. What's missing in my hood?

Speaker 94 I identified. Then I brought white to my hood.
Shit, I gentrified. We had military arms, we would simplify.
Point blank, let me simplify. I've been like post corner boy, green box sitter.

Speaker 94 Crack nigga, tryna hustle up and act bigger. Six deuce fire, niggas really live the wire.
From lookouts, then we meteor to suppliers.

Speaker 90 Caved in one way in, one way out.

Speaker 94 Robocops on mountain bikes ain't pulling mace out. Just tryna get back home from getting chased out.

Speaker 90 A week ago, a boy like me don't got a face now.

Speaker 94 The partners, the projects, the ghettos, all the same shit. Crazy how we hop scotch and double Dutch danger.
We ADHD and all the pills that you gave us. How are we supposed to process this anger?

Speaker 36 The Bullwork Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

Speaker 24 She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard.

Speaker 24 But then we found out she had something called agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficult.
So we asked her doctor for more help.

Speaker 25 Seeing symptoms like these in a loved one, it could be time to ask their doctor about Rexulti, Rexpiprazole 2 milligrams, the only FDA-approved treatment proven to reduce the symptoms of this condition.

Speaker 25 Rexulte should not be used as an as-needed treatment.

Speaker 25 Elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke, report fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, which can be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent.

Speaker 25 High blood sugar can lead to coma or death. Weight gain, increased cholesterol, unusual urges, dizziness on standing, falls, seizures, trouble swallowing, or sleepiness may occur.

Speaker 25 Learn more about these and other side effects at Rexulte.com. Tap Ad for PI.

Speaker 24 I'm glad her doctor recommended Rexulti.

Speaker 25 Talk to your loved ones, doctor. Moments matter.

Speaker 95 This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Get ready for your next TV obsession, All's Fair.

Speaker 95 Starring Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts, Nisi Nash Betts, Tayana Taylor, with Sarah Paulson, and Glenn Close. A team of fierce female divorce attorneys leave a male-dominated firm to start their own.

Speaker 95 Filled with scandalous secrets and shifting allegiances both in the courtroom and within their own ranks. These ladies know that lawyers are a girl's best friend.

Speaker 95 Don't miss All's Fair, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers.

Speaker 36 Terms apply.

Speaker 24 What do you think makes the perfect snack?

Speaker 46 Hmm.

Speaker 33 It's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

Speaker 24 Could you be more specific?

Speaker 96 When it's cravenient.

Speaker 50 Okay.

Speaker 96 Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right now in the street at AM P.M., or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at AM PM.

Speaker 44 I'm seeing a pattern here.

Speaker 47 Well, yeah, we're talking about what I crave.

Speaker 24 Which is anything from AM PM?

Speaker 33 What more could you want?

Speaker 89 Stop by AMPM, where the snacks and drinks are perfectly cravable and convenient. That's cravenience.
AMPM, too much good stuff.