S2 Ep1001: Bill Kristol: Give Back the Statue of Liberty

Speaker 4 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovny, and Carise Van Houten.

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Speaker 13 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 2 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 9 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 14 One thing's for sure: the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

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Speaker 19 Hello, and welcome to the Bullwork Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.
If it's Monday, it's Bill Crystal. He's back.
How are you doing, Bill?

Speaker 20 What's the right answer to that these days? Have we discussed this already?

Speaker 20 If you say you're doing fine, then it seems like you're not sufficiently cognizant that everything is falling apart in our great country.

Speaker 20 And if you dwell on that, you seem not grateful enough that, you know, what is fine and what's family is fine and so forth.

Speaker 19 So I've settled on, I'm living. That's great.
I'm living. I'm here.
That's what I've been telling people.

Speaker 20 I need something.

Speaker 20 I need an all-purpose answer in this.

Speaker 19 I'm living. I'm here.
We're here. And there's that.
I'd rather be living than dying. We got to start with the pardons that were voided, I guess, allegedly.
Can you avoid via bleat?

Speaker 19 I guess that will be a question for Amy Coney Barrett to determine at some point.

Speaker 19 I think just after midnight in the East, Trump bleeded that Biden's preemptive pardons of his political foes, particularly the members of the House January 6th Committee, are all caps, void, vacant, and of no further force or effect because they were signed with an auto pen.

Speaker 19 This is now a emerging conspiracy theory on the right that Joe Biden was weakened at Bernie's at the White House and that there were like random staffers that were signing pardons that he didn't even know about.

Speaker 19 And they're using an auto pen to do it. There's some pretty obvious flaws in this theory, particularly that these were extremely high-profile pardons that received a lot of news.

Speaker 19 So it seems pretty unlikely that that happened while Joe Biden was resting. So, this, like many Trump stories, combines the ridiculous with the fascistic.
But I'm wondering what do you make of it?

Speaker 20 I mean, it's super ridiculous to think that one president can void a previous president's pardons. Otherwise, we would have had a lot of that over the years, I suppose.

Speaker 20 They weren't always popular with the other party. Yeah, it's ludicrous.

Speaker 20 I mean, I think Andrew Egger made a good point in Morning Shots this morning, which shows how deeply, deeply Trump wants to go after the January 6th Committee people.

Speaker 20 I mean, who was pardoned at the end of the day the Biden family,

Speaker 20 if I recall correctly, Liz Cheney and Representative Thompson and one or two others, I think, sort of very much from that world. I guess General Milley.

Speaker 20 So Trump's going after the rest, the other 97 of them, or of us, maybe I should say. I don't know quite how we fit into

Speaker 20 this list. But it really rankles him that he can't use the whole Justice Department and the authorities of the federal government to go after Liz Janey and Betty Thompson, I suppose.

Speaker 20 So it shows how deep the hatred is, I guess. Yeah, fascistic, as you say.
We're so far beyond any sense of like, oh, this seems unseemly. Oh, this is kind of contrary to the rule of law.

Speaker 20 This is kind of contrary to the Constitution. This is kind of contrary to everything.
You know, it's just, yeah.

Speaker 19 Yeah. And look, there is, again, and we all know this, but as we're saying, there's the new Alex Eisenstead from Politico's The New Book Out that covers the Trump 2024

Speaker 19 through the campaign and the transition.

Speaker 19 And, you know, and he's got a quote in there where Trump is talking to aides and being sarcastic and saying, listen, everybody, there'll be no retribution, there'll be no revenge, wink, wink.

Speaker 19 You know, I mean, like, he's obviously like wrapped around the axle around this, and he's specifically targeting these people.

Speaker 19 And we talked about it a little bit with David French on Friday, and that generally, historically, when presidents have, you know, or administrations have gone after political foes,

Speaker 19 not nearly as directly political foes as this, but people that, you know, where they made decisions that were based in politics rather nakedly.

Speaker 19 You know, look at the Alberto Gonzalez situation for one example. That the administration usually tries to backfill that with like some other rationale, right?

Speaker 19 That's like, this isn't, that's not really, this was not really politics, right? Like what we were really trying to do was X, Y, and Z.

Speaker 19 And like the Trump administration is not even really doing that, right? Like, I think that is the other thing that is pretty striking about this.

Speaker 19 Like, they're nakedly like, no, we're going after political foes, and let's see what you're going to do about it, judges.

Speaker 20 Totally. Totally.
I mean,

Speaker 20 it's just one of many,

Speaker 20 not to belabor the point, but it's one of many or several ways in which, yeah, the old kind of rules are gone, the old, there were some excesses, God knows, in the past, but they were masked and the masking itself limited the excess in obvious ways.

Speaker 20 That's how the world works, right? But once you throw off the mask and it's just, you know, pedal to the metal on retribution and persecution, I mean, where does that end up?

Speaker 19 It was a Perkins-Cooey case. I was trying to think, which was the example.

Speaker 19 They're targeting so many foes right now. I was like, which was the one that French said that, like, even in their rationale, they just put it bluntly and it was with regards to the lawyers.

Speaker 19 The other thing that they have taken the mask off on is the pretense of the separation between the Justice Department and the White House.

Speaker 19 Over the weekend, Pam Bondi was speaking at the DOJ, and I want to play a little bit from that.

Speaker 21 And we all work for the greatest president in the history of our country. We are so proud to work at the directive of Donald Trump.
It is,

Speaker 21 he will never stop fighting for us, and we will never stop fighting for him.

Speaker 19 I just at the start, that the Attorney General has to do the like North Korean ludicrous thing that this is the greatest president, and it's not Lincoln, you know, not Washington,

Speaker 19 not the author of the Constitution of the Declaration, right? Like, like it is Donald Trump. It's the greatest president in our history.
That the Attorney General has to do that

Speaker 19 is pretty weird and alarming. But then there's that phrase that we work at the directive of Trump, followed by claps in the room at the directive.
That's actually not right.

Speaker 20 It shouldn't be right.

Speaker 20 Obviously, in certain areas of policy, it's correct. The president tells the Justice Department, I want you to focus on X and not Y or whatever.
But yeah, not in terms of criminal prosecutions.

Speaker 20 And clearly, that's what's front and center in everyone's mind.

Speaker 20 And Bondi and Cash Protel are all in on just, yes, you say, not even pretending that, well, we're weighing the evidence and we think there's a good case here that X is guilty of something.

Speaker 20 It's just Trump doesn't like them. We're going to find any excuse we can.

Speaker 20 I was going to say, to be nice to them, we don't know yet how far they'll go in stretching the excuses, but it turns out they'll go very far, right?

Speaker 20 I mean, we see this in a bunch of cases, including the law firms, which is pretty astonishing. I mean, these are big law firms.
They represented a million clients. Some of them are more

Speaker 20 liberally inclined or democratically inclined. Some are the other way.
I honestly don't think it's occurred to anyone.

Speaker 20 Maybe Nixon and Watergate was, I can't remember if there was a law firm he went after as part of his going after Brookings and Daniel Ellsberg. Maybe he went after Ellsberg's lawyers.

Speaker 20 But I mean, to publicly just do executive orders. And again, it's not like if he privately whispered to Pam Bond, Bond, he's dig into that law firm there.

Speaker 20 Maybe you can find some law they broken, you know, some ethics rule they broke,

Speaker 20 something we could bring them up on in a civil or criminal charge. That's bad.
That's bad.

Speaker 20 But that's at least keeps the fiction that, oh, hey, Justice just happened to discover that this firm was billing client, double-billing clients or something. I don't know.

Speaker 20 There's not even the pretense, as David French said, right? It's just, I don't like them. They represented a bunch of my political enemies.

Speaker 20 It's not even telling the Justice Department to look into them or ordering them to.

Speaker 20 It's he personally is, if I'm right about this, stripping them of their security clearances and making their life, making it much harder for them to represent clients before the government.

Speaker 20 I mean, it's a personal order. It's not sort of a request to justice to look into it.

Speaker 19 Yeah. And back to the Bondi thing, too.
I just...

Speaker 19 Doing the, oh, the right-wing media is hypocritical, you know, is pretty boring at this point, has some limits.

Speaker 19 But it's just worth just putting, like going back to one prime example that anybody that was kind of paying attention to politics in 2015, 16 will remember, which is remember this Loretta Lynch tarmac meeting?

Speaker 19 Yeah, there's this notion that the then Attorney General has a meeting on the tarmac with Bill Clinton. So, not even like the sitting president, right, but with Bill Clinton.

Speaker 19 And that we don't, we still, I still don't think we know exactly what they talked about, but it was when Hillary was under investigation.

Speaker 19 And there was this notion that like maybe some message was sent to tell

Speaker 19 the Attorney General then to ease off of Hillary. And like Fox News must have dedicated 100,000 hours to this.

Speaker 19 If they did a minute, they did 100,000 hours. And it's like the whole pretense of that controversy, right, was that the Department of Justice needs to be separate from political entanglements, right?

Speaker 19 And that they should judge people's, you know, whether people are prosecuted, you know, based on the facts and based on the law. And if they're not doing that, then that is a scandal.
And like,

Speaker 19 here we have just out in the open, the Attorney General under Trump saying, no, yeah, I'm going to do whatever he wants. Like, I will be a political actor, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 19 And it's just crickets. Like, it's just total crickets.
Like, there's no,

Speaker 19 has Andy McCarthy like written a screed against this for National Review?

Speaker 19 There was a whole industrial outrage complex on the right, dedicated to any sense of wrongdoing during the Obama or Biden administration. And they've just totally dispensed with that.
And

Speaker 19 obviously, I guess we've seen this across so many verticals, but in this case, it is just as blatant as you could possibly imagine.

Speaker 20 You know, it's striking when you hear the video. I'd read the clip, but I hadn't heard it until just now.

Speaker 20 She doesn't say we're proud to work in this administration. She has the North Korean thing about her.
He's the greatest president ever.

Speaker 20 Then she doesn't say we should implement the policies of the president of the United States. That would be a little questionable, I'd say, to be saying that formally.
But, you know, whatever.

Speaker 20 That could be on the border. She says, what does she say? We're proud to work at the direction of Donald Trump.
But it really brings somehow personal, you know, it's a personal fealty.

Speaker 20 It's not even that, gee, in the executive branch, there should be a separation between the president and the AG or the White House and the AG.

Speaker 20 This is the personal agenda of Donald Trump that Pam Bonte is using the Justice Department to carry out.

Speaker 19 Across all these cases, I saw a tweet from Frum this morning that is, I just think, pretty telling. He wrote that

Speaker 19 over the course of the first two months here, Trump has claimed power to overturn Article I of the Constitution, Congress's authority over spending, Article II, the predecessor's pardon power, and Article III, in defiance of a federal court order.

Speaker 19 We're about to get to that next on immigration. But like all of this stuff, there's the boiling frogs element to it.

Speaker 19 And I think that when put that way, it just shows how completely they are disregarding any legal powers or any legal limits, you know, beyond Donald Trump can do whatever he wants.

Speaker 20 Yeah, that's a good idea. I hadn't seen the Trump thing.
As always, David, that's very tersely, but also intelligently expressed and brings home the point. It really brings home the point.

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Speaker 19 Let's get to immigration. You had a, on that third point there, the defiance of a federal court order, he's referencing this flight of Venezuelan.

Speaker 19 We'll kind of get to who these people are.

Speaker 19 We'll get to the Venezuelan part of this, but essentially a judge had put a stay on this Alien Enemies Act powers that Trump says that he is granting himself as far as deporting people inside this country.

Speaker 19 And they had had a group of Venezuelans they put on a flight and the stay happened when there's some debate about this, but maybe the flight is in air.

Speaker 19 And they went through with it anyway and said, Well, it's over international waters, so we don't have to respond to this. And they don't seem to be having an interest in responding to it anyway.

Speaker 19 So, that's like the biggest news on the immigration front.

Speaker 19 But the biggest picture, you talked to Aaron Reiklin-Melnick on our bulwark on Sundays over on Substack, which I really recommend for people who want to get nerdy on what is happening right now with immigration.

Speaker 19 But what struck you from that conversation as kind of the biggest picture stay to play?

Speaker 20 Yeah, I think it was a good conversation, not because of me, but he really explained well, I think, the bigger picture, but also sort of the nuts and bolts of how some of it works.

Speaker 20 I mean, just on this thing,

Speaker 20 this invocation of the Alien Enemies Act is almost being slid over sometimes because of the

Speaker 20 sort of defiance, let's just call it, or evasion of the court order, and certainly an attitude of contempt towards the court order. But the invocation of this act is nuts.

Speaker 20 I mean, and it that itself should not, and I believe will not, what hopes will not stand up in court. It's been invoked, used three times, the war of 1812, World War I, World War II.

Speaker 20 It's for actually about alien enemies in war. You know, some German saboteur shows up on the coast, on the West Coast or something.

Speaker 20 But anyway, they had to invent a fake war with this Venezuelan gang to justify this. Now, Trump already has pretty broad powers to hold, detain, and to deport people who are not here.
lawfully.

Speaker 20 And if you find people involved in gang activities, you can, of course, prosecute them just under the normal criminal laws of the United States. You can also detain and deport them.

Speaker 20 And these people were being detained. I think it's really worth making this point that they weren't like roaming around free in the streets of the U.S., but he wants to deport them to El Salvador.

Speaker 20 So that itself is outrageous. But on the bigger picture, two points.
The rule of law is shattered in so many ways in the immigration area or pushed or stretched or distended.

Speaker 20 And you can say in any one of these cases, some of these cases, well, it's kind of possibly plausible, but you put it all together.

Speaker 20 They want no one coming into the country basically almost i mean that sounds like crazily overstated but it's not that overstated certainly no one coming to and staying they're not even crazy about people coming for a while if there's some tiny risk they'll stay even if their overstay would be because they're hiking around on some trail for an extra week i mean right we're really in a kind of the hostility to foreigners and and i think one point aaron makes very well is Trump wants to convey the impression that this is Fortress America, that we are hostile to all these people who want to come here.

Speaker 20 Not that we have to be a little more careful about who we take in, not that we took in an awful lot of people in the last 30, 40 years, and we have to reduce some of those numbers.

Speaker 20 Not that it's not good politics or good policy to not know exactly who's here, and there's some undocumented people we don't know about. But he wants us to look as if we're hostile to immigrants.

Speaker 20 Not too crazy about visitors either, but hostile to immigrants, which is really jaw-dropping for the United States. Maybe we did this a little bit, I guess, in the 20s, 30s, and 40s.

Speaker 20 I mean, those laws were very restrictionist, but the degree to which Trump relishes the, and the Trump people and the whole administration, and now people like Rubio, it's really unbelievable.

Speaker 20 I mean, that Rubio, who was a very pro-immigration guy, famously, that gang of whatever it was in 2013, and who is literally told a very affecting story about his life as the son of immigrants, of refugees seeking asylum in the U.S.

Speaker 20 and getting asylum in the U.S., in Florida, from Cuba, that he's he's just fine with all this. I mean, asylum is gone.
The refugee resettlement program is gone.

Speaker 20 So again, I think what Aaron brings home is just the breadth of the hostility to any notion of the U.S. as

Speaker 20 a land of refuge, a land of asylum, or a land of hope and opportunity for people from other countries.

Speaker 19 Or a land that you would want to even come to to visit, to your broader point. Like, honestly.
So I have a rant I want to pop off on

Speaker 19 this Venezuela flight, but before we get to that, just a couple of others, just stories that have been out there this weekend. There was this American Pie spin-off actress.

Speaker 19 She was in a spin-off to American Pie. She's Canadian, 35.
She had a previous work visa to be here that had been canceled. She had some issue with her work visa.
She's in San Diego.

Speaker 19 A lawyer said, you know, since she's already in San Diego, she should go to the border to get a new visa.

Speaker 19 She gets detained and like sent to Arizona and put inside a pen, like where she's like sleeping on a mat with aluminum aluminum foil over her.

Speaker 19 This lady that had been here legally and her visa had expired or something, like a minor visa issue. It's crazy that we're detaining this person.
We have Dr. Rasha Alawia.

Speaker 19 I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. She is a physician specializing in kidney transplants and a professor at Brown University.
She's 34. She lives in Providence.
The U.S.

Speaker 19 Consulate in Lebanon had issued her an H-1B visa, which is given to people in these special occupations requiring expertise.

Speaker 19 This was the big controversy about Indian H-1B visa applicants in Silicon Valley. Her visa was valid through mid-2027.
The lawyers don't know what happened, but she got sent.

Speaker 19 She was flying back into the country. She got sent back to France and I think to Lebanon.
There's a married couple living in Wisconsin. The wife was, she was from Peru.

Speaker 19 They're in Puerto Rico for their marriage, came back. They're to go to Wisconsin.

Speaker 19 She was on an expired visa, but she was filling out the paperwork to become become a permanent resident, married to an American citizen, stepmother to an American citizen.

Speaker 19 She gets detained at the airport and was also like sent to Texas to some ICE detention camp across the country. All of these cases are like ridiculous.

Speaker 19 You know, like they said that he was going after criminals. Like, see what you want about

Speaker 19 any of these folks.

Speaker 19 Like, sure, maybe if we're going to have a hard line on visa rules, you know, like maybe some of these folks are going to end up having to be having to be be deported or having to go back to their home country.

Speaker 19 I would be against that. But like in the meantime, to like put them in ICE detention centers and like use U.S.
resources to do this is like purposefully cruel.

Speaker 19 And to your point, and to Aaron's point, they're doing this because they want to send a message to people that they're not welcome here. Like that is what they're trying to scare people.

Speaker 19 They're trying to freak people out. And I think, frankly, it's going to work.

Speaker 19 I don't know. Did he have anything else on that element of this that's striking?

Speaker 20 We didn't dwell on whether it's working.

Speaker 20 I just saw some fact that tourism is down some, though, for whatever that's worth, and people are a little freaked out that they could make a slip-up on a form and not have filled out a new form.

Speaker 20 And using, you know, they come here routinely on business. One point Aaron makes is that work, what does work mean?

Speaker 20 You're a 27-year-old. You come here.
You're here for vacation. You're going to go to the Grand Canyon.
You're going to do this. You're going to hike.
You're going to see Las Vegas.

Speaker 20 But, you know, you also flip open your computer and do some remote work while you're here for your employer back in Berlin, or maybe you're a freelancer and you're, you know, someone hires you to do something.

Speaker 20 We can't have that person in this country. I mean, it's really, yeah, the cruelty is the point.
Deterring other people from coming in is the point. And the self-deportation is the point, right?

Speaker 20 To get them all to err on the side of just leaving.

Speaker 20 And there are people, we've seen reports of people leaving who just are worried they're going to get snatched and they prefer to leave maybe with the rest of their family so they're not separated, as we've now seen instances of.

Speaker 20 So it's yeah the cruelty it's so unnecessary so terrible for this country i think not just for our image but really for our own understanding of our ourselves and so utterly unnecessary what's the problem we're addressing here i mean

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Speaker 4 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 7 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 10 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 13 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 2 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 9 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 14 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 19 None of these people I mentioned are criminals, gang members. They're not selling fentanyl.

Speaker 19 And just to get the facts right on that, on the third example I gave her, her name is Camila Munoz. She's living in a small town in Wisconsin, finds love, gets married, is parenting a child.

Speaker 19 They're on their honeymoon in Puerto Rico. Again, I voted for Trump, so I did see some chatter about this case on social media about fucking around and finding out.
But I don't like,

Speaker 19 okay,

Speaker 19 I'm fine to laugh at the expense of Trump voters who are suffering the consequences of their actions. But like at the broader point, this is preposterous.

Speaker 19 And which takes us back to the Venezuela situation.

Speaker 19 So the Alien Enemies Act, as you mentioned at the top, was like the notion here is that what it gives them the ability to do, tell me if this is, is this your understanding, is essentially just to fast-track these deportations without due process, right?

Speaker 19 Like you don't have to actually prove, you know, they don't have to have a court date.

Speaker 19 You know, it's just there's an accusation that they're part of this enemy group, Trenda or Agua, and that is all the rationale you need to deport.

Speaker 20 Yeah, and they don't have any kind of criminal conviction or anything, which would be another reason you could detain people and deport them.

Speaker 19 So what we're doing with these people is we're sending them to El Salvador's Terrorism Confinement Center.

Speaker 19 This is, if you haven't seen the videos or pictures of this thing, it's like a penal colony run by the villains and some dystopian robocop future.

Speaker 19 It sends a chill down your spine. Like, the idea that you would send one innocent person to this fucking hellscape should just make you shudder.

Speaker 19 I mean, like, if you've not looked at the videos, the White House itself has helpfully

Speaker 19 sent out a sizzle reel

Speaker 19 of the horrible treatment of the people at this penal colony, I guess, as some kind of deterrent or, you know, maybe to get Stephen Miller hard.

Speaker 19 I don't know why they posted it, but you can watch that if you want. Here's the thing, though.

Speaker 19 So, the CEO of the Immigrant Defenders Law Center, that's I-M-M-D-E-F on social media if you want to check it out. This is what she writes.

Speaker 19 So, we're taking her word on this, but I want to actually explain this case in detail. She writes, This, our client fled Venezuela last year and came to the U.S.
to seek asylum.

Speaker 19 He has a strong asylum claim. He was detained at entry because ICE alleged his tattoos are gang-related.
They are absolutely not. Our client worked in the arts in Venezuela.
He's LGBTQ.

Speaker 19 His tattoos are benign, but ICE submitted photos of his tattoos as evidence he's Trend de Uragua.

Speaker 19 We last spoke to our client on Thursday before he was supposed to have a hearing in immigration court, but ICE didn't bring him to the hearing.

Speaker 19 The government attorney had no info about why he was not there. The judge reset the hearing for Monday today.

Speaker 19 We've been trying to contact our client ever since this morning, yesterday, Sunday morning. He disappeared from the online detainee locator.
Our client came to the U.S.

Speaker 19 seeking protection, but he spent months in ICE prisons, been falsely accused of being a gang member. And today, he's been forcefully transferred, we believe, to El Salvador.

Speaker 19 We are horrified tonight thinking about what might happen to him now.

Speaker 19 If this is even in the ballpark of being true, these people are fucking evil. They're evil.
Like, this is a fundamental part of what America is. Like, that we had welcomed people.

Speaker 19 Like, if this is true, this is a gay man fleeing persecution in Venezuela, comes to the border.

Speaker 19 Maybe you could decide that, whatever, we need new asylum rules, and that doesn't count, and he doesn't count for asylum or whatever.

Speaker 19 But that we would do this and smear him and impugn him and put him in a fucking camp and then send him to this dystopian prison colony in El Salvador in a totally different country.

Speaker 19 It's fucking insane. It is insane.
And I saw this thing from a French member of French parliament, Raphael Glucksman. He said, give us back the Statue of Liberty.

Speaker 19 We gave it to you as a gift, but apparently you despise it. So it'll be just fine back here at home.
That's where I'm at reading this story. Give it the fuck back.
Doge can take care of this.

Speaker 19 Elon Musk can put that on a fucking boat back to France. Because if we're going to treat this person

Speaker 19 like this, there's no, we're welcoming the tired and poor and huddled masses. There's no yearning to be free here.

Speaker 19 We're going to send you to a fucking authoritarian, dystopian penal camp in El Salvador, where you're going to get beat and abused and treated like shit and who knows what else just because you happen to be a Venezuelan that wanted freedom in this country.

Speaker 19 It is just appalling. So I don't know if you have anything else on that, but.

Speaker 20 No, it's hard. It's horrifying.

Speaker 20 And look, if you said, look, we have to detain him and we're going to, it's going to take a couple of weeks where we check out his story on the tattoos before he gets the temporary protected status, which incidentally Venezuelans are supposed to get, I believe, if they flee the Venezuelan authoritarian regime.

Speaker 20 But, you know, okay, that would be, and maybe the conditions under which he's held aren't great.

Speaker 20 And that's, you know, okay, that's kind of the messiness of our immigration system and of the border or something, though.

Speaker 20 But the idea that we're sending him to this horrible penal colony in El Salvador is beyond belief. And again, why? What was the rush? The guy was detained.

Speaker 20 I mean, he wasn't out on the streets being a member, allegedly a member of some gang. So it's purely about the performative cruelty and the, I guess they think, deterrent effect.
And J.D.

Speaker 20 Vance being able to go on Twitter and say, we're deporting the criminals.

Speaker 20 And the Democratic judges, I don't know if he says judges, but the Democrats want to keep them here or bring them in or keep them here or something like that.

Speaker 20 I mean, so it's really using these people as pawns for a very low political end. It's really horrifying.

Speaker 19 It's fucking evil.

Speaker 19 JD fans, that's sick. Who are you? Like, what are you?

Speaker 19 You're religious. You're quoting people about...

Speaker 19 You're trying to quote Ordo and Morris

Speaker 19 about how we care about each other. And you're doing this to this person.
Like, imagine being this person.

Speaker 19 Again, assuming it is reported as true.

Speaker 19 Fleeing Venezuela, they make the long trek to America. They think they might have the opportunity for freedom.
They end up getting put into a cell.

Speaker 19 And next thing you know, know, you're on a plane with actual gang members. Because by the way, I assume there are actual gang members also on this plane that we are sending.

Speaker 19 And I think we probably shouldn't be sending them to fucking El Salvador and paying El Salvador a fee for this. But besides the point, okay, we're sending some fucking gang members.

Speaker 19 So you're on this plane with like these violent, evil gang members.

Speaker 19 And then you're going to be, you get your hair shaved and like you get treated like you are the fucking dreg of humanity by some like like drunk on power, like El Salvadoran, like robocop, the way that they're like dragging these people around.

Speaker 19 Like,

Speaker 19 I just imagine being that person. Like, you are in hell.
Like, you, like, this is the worst thing you could possibly do to somebody.

Speaker 19 These people are fucking sick, which takes me to the next thing I wanted to talk about, which is, what do you do if you're the Democrats about this? Because, like, obviously, at its core,

Speaker 19 it's sad to admit and it's depressing, but probably on balance, like

Speaker 19 the snuff snuff porn video of us taking tattooed

Speaker 19 Hispanic people and throwing them in some fucking prison camp is probably a political winner. I wish that were not the case, but it probably is.

Speaker 19 And so, you know, there's going to be people out there saying, oh, the Democrats, this is pick your battles, pick your battles. I don't know, though.
What do you think?

Speaker 19 How do the Democrats handle this?

Speaker 20 I've gotten radicalized on this. I was never a big pick your battles person.
I just think that's, you know, you don't know which ones to pick until you try to fight them.

Speaker 20 And also, if you don't fight one, you are kind of legitimizing it and so forth. And this is a pretty, as we've been saying, a terrible case and the whole use of the Alien Enemies Act and stuff.

Speaker 20 They're about, incidentally, in two weeks, I think. They've abrogated.
So there are hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans here. They seem to be doing fine.
Incidentally, they're great.

Speaker 20 They left them in South Florida. No one wants to deport them except for Trump, so far as I can tell, except for these 2,000 gang members, if they're that many.
And

Speaker 20 they have abrogated these Venezuelans temporary protective status. They were let in, and the way TPS temporary protective status works is for 18 months.
And

Speaker 20 at the end, you can either extend it or not, depending on what conditions are in the home country. They've shortened that period.

Speaker 20 So there are, I think, 200,000 people, Aaron said, mostly in Florida, probably Venezuelans, who are supposed to be, who will become undocumented on April 3rd, and then who will be subject to...

Speaker 20 deportation.

Speaker 20 So again,

Speaker 20 they're addressing a non-problem in this case and purposely whipping up sentiments about the invasion and conflating the gang members with the overall community and whipping up sentiments about people of brown skin from, I presume it's mostly from Central and Latin America kind of flooding this country and invading this country and polluting our blood.

Speaker 20 I mean, it's really grotesque

Speaker 20 and terrible. So I'm with you in

Speaker 20 the rant side of it and the indignation side, which maybe is coloring my political judgment.

Speaker 20 I've been on two tech chains this weekend and one zoom in which I've been told that we have to pick our battles. Defending gang members isn't good.

Speaker 20 The doctor at Brown, we should defend her because everyone likes physicians at Brown.

Speaker 19 Well, I don't know.

Speaker 19 The Lebanese were killed.

Speaker 20 And maybe they didn't, okay, whatever. Or

Speaker 20 German tourists.

Speaker 20 Yeah, you're right. I take that point too.
And I guess I got kind of angry actually one of these Zoom calls. And it's like, really? I mean, with the American public, it's so

Speaker 20 sensitive and is judging every case on so much on you know on the balance here and it's so important this that if it adds 0.3% to Trump's approval rating over the next month we can't talk about it I think it's mostly self-defeating obviously there's some prudence in what fights you pick but if the Democrats don't pick the overall fight on Trump's immigration policy as being inhumane indecent and unlawful That's just pathetic.

Speaker 20 And I don't think incidentally they would lose that fight. But if they would lose that fight, okay, let's try at least.
I mean, we can't just sit here and accept this, I don't think.

Speaker 19 But as I i say i i don't quite trust my political judgment because i'm too i'm pretty uh worked up about it i guess yeah my blood is boiling so i don't trust my political judgment either but i i like what is the point of being here if you're not going to fight for these people like what is the point like this is this is america like this is the fundamental part of of america is the immigrant story it doesn't mean we have to accept everybody it doesn't mean we can't deport gang members but like

Speaker 19 If you can't make this case in a way that is compelling, then okay, then whatever. I mean, we're going to descend into authoritarian autocracy anyway.
So what's the point?

Speaker 19 I mean, if you're, I get it if you're a random, like, you know, like I was looking at the DCC list and, and the Republicans think they can gain seats in certain places because people are upset about whatever.

Speaker 19 Okay. Like, I get it.
If you're like one of these three congressmen or four congressmen in a vulnerable place, and it doesn't make sense for you to talk about this, but I don't, I don't see it.

Speaker 19 And, you know, I also just refuse to believe that everybody that is a Christian is Jerry Falwell Jr.

Speaker 19 I think that there have got to be like a handful of non-fake Christians out there that can be appealed to on the grounds of just the inhumanity of this.

Speaker 19 I mean, one of the other examples that we talked about, I forgot if it was with you or somebody else in the pod, was that case of the Iranian woman that was fleeing religious persecution, Christian, Iranian Christian.

Speaker 19 And we sent her to Panama, I guess, to be put in some locked up in some looking hotel. She couldn't speak to anybody.

Speaker 19 The Panamanians took our unwanted refugees as part of a deal to take the Panama Canal back from whatever fucking nonsense he was like arguing. And like,

Speaker 19 you know, is the plight of Iranian Christian refugees not something that is material to any, to a single Christian church-going Trump voter? I don't know. Maybe not, but it's worth a try.

Speaker 20 Can I just add one thing on this? You know, I was just thinking, I was on a panel last week, off the record and all this private conference, Democrats, and I was kind of being lectured.

Speaker 20 Not lecture is not fair. Someone on the panel was saying, Bill, that's very nice that you're indignant.
But, you know, it's the kitchen table, it's the economic issues, the price of eggs.

Speaker 20 That's what killed us in 2024. It's what we've got.
It's just, that's what people are talking about. We got to hammer it.
I'm, of course, fine with making the economic arguments.

Speaker 20 And in fact, it seems like the economy is slowing.

Speaker 20 And one thing one could say about the economic arguments is if the economy is going to a recession, the Democrats don't have to tell, you know, tell people. They'll notice.

Speaker 20 But his particular example was the price of eggs, because that was so popular a while ago. So I noticed somewhere, maybe maybe I think I'm right about the price of eggs is like coming down.

Speaker 20 I don't know why.

Speaker 19 The price of eggs is down big right now.

Speaker 20 So it's like, great.

Speaker 20 Let's just have everyone go and scream about that and then get correctly mocked, you know, for making a huge deal of some temporary spike piece of, I don't know what it was, bird flu or whatever.

Speaker 20 And there's so much sort of pseudo-cleverness about what political arguments to make that is, I think, foolish. I don't know.

Speaker 19 Wrong is wrong.

Speaker 20 Does this get into our friend Chuck Schumer? You were right.

Speaker 19 Yeah, let's do it. Let's get into Chuck Schumer.
Wrong is wrong. I just, also, it's like, I keep going back to who cares.

Speaker 19 I don't know.

Speaker 19 Isn't this a problem for ad makers in August of 2026? Yeah, right. Like in the meantime, I don't know, man.

Speaker 19 If there was, you're telling me that it's better for Democrats to give boring talking points about the price of eggs while having there be no protests than having people leading like some massive protests outside the Statue of Liberty or outside of an ICE detention center.

Speaker 19 Again, maybe, maybe that's true. Maybe it would, maybe it would backfire to have massive people protesting this.

Speaker 19 I don't know for sure, but it sure seems to me that mass mobilization against Trump, a mass feeling that things are chaotic and crazy, is probably better than kind of going along with business as normal and giving your talking points about

Speaker 20 the kitchen table issues.

Speaker 24 This is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart podcast.

Speaker 25 Hello, darlings.

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Speaker 4 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

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Speaker 10 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 13 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 2 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 9 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 14 One thing's for sure: the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 19 Chuck Schumer.

Speaker 19 Yeah, Lauren Egan wrote for us on Sunday our newest report.

Speaker 19 I'm going to get her on here in the next couple of weeks, but she's been covering the Democrats for us here at the Bulwark and just kind of the Democrats in the wilderness and hashing out the different views on these sort of conversations we're having right now.

Speaker 19 She writes basically that, you know, privately,

Speaker 19 there is genuine anger among Democratic electeds at Schumer. I think one Democrat told her that this was like an Eric Cantor moment, which hit home for me.

Speaker 19 And I know we lived through that, Eric Cantor getting kicked out by that fucking moron, Dave Bratt, but just because he was out of touch with what Republican voters were looking for, I think there's potentially something there on that.

Speaker 19 What do you make about the Schumer kerfuffle?

Speaker 20 So I was slightly

Speaker 20 open to the Schumer argument about the CR. I don't think that was crazy, that a government shutdown would neither substantively nor politically have worked out particularly well.

Speaker 20 And it wasn't the hill to fight on. It's just they didn't have a very good fight to make.

Speaker 20 So I was sympathetic to to Tumer on that. Having said that, we both went back and forth a little.
I think you ended up much more critical on Friday, was it?

Speaker 19 I was critical. Just, I'll just make my point, then you can give yours.
Like, briefly, because I noticed some people in the comments, I think, kind of misunderstood my point.

Speaker 19 If Schumer decided we cannot win a shutdown because he knows his caucus fat rider than me, there'll be an uproar, there'll be votes that people don't have the spine for it.

Speaker 19 For whatever reason, if you've made that calculation, okay, well, then still, then in the meantime, like you've got to use this moment as a flashpoint for fighting.

Speaker 19 And you could still do talking filibusters.

Speaker 19 They still could have spent the whole weekend pointing out all of the evil shit Elon Musk is doing, bringing people to the floor, you know, getting attention, you know, driving interest around this.

Speaker 19 And, you know, would any of that have mattered in the grand scheme of things in the midterms? I don't know. But at least it would have been responsive to the moment.

Speaker 19 You know, and like to me, it was just like just this total fold without any fight, without any clear message on it. You could have sold me on the full fuck it, let's go through a shutdown for sure.

Speaker 19 But at least short of that, I wanted some fights. So, anyway, that's where I was at on Shimmer.

Speaker 20 Well, so I'm totally with you, and I might have gone for avoiding the shutdown, but yes, at least show the fight ahead of time. Not in a misleading way.

Speaker 20 Say we may just have to go ahead because we're over the barrel, but let's be clear what Elon Musk is doing.

Speaker 20 Here's 36 hours on the set of floor or whatever, you know, as you say, through the night, get some attention,

Speaker 20 real attention about real bad things that are happening, including immigration for that matter, if you want. If they'd been in this weekend, they could have highlighted some of what was happening.

Speaker 20 So that, I'm very much where you are on that. And then it's compounded for me over the weekend by two things, I guess.

Speaker 20 Schumer's book tour, which he's going to, I guess he's actually going to these places, or is it a virtual book tour? I haven't really focused. But either way, he's spending...

Speaker 19 I think he's supposed to be going to those places, and I think it's going to be ugly for him.

Speaker 20 He's spending tons of time this week charging people admission, as I understand it, to sell his book on anti-Semitism, which, you know, maybe like when we actually have this administration trying, which includes a bunch of anti-Semites as well, or is certainly adjacent to them, is trying to impose authoritarianism on America.

Speaker 20 He shouldn't be just going around having, you know, promoting his book. It'll sell whatever it sells in any case, I would think.
But anyway, it's not an inspiring site.

Speaker 19 And I also just got to say, like, this whole thing, look,

Speaker 19 I've been through this book process. I had book things that fell through and that went south, you know, and it's like, who cares?

Speaker 19 The anti-Semitism, a warning

Speaker 19 would have been a very powerful book for Chuck Schumer during the Kamala Harris administration. Mike, so it would have been like a message to my own.

Speaker 20 I think that was the point of it, presumably, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Speaker 19 But then once Trump wins and you are supposed to be the leader of the resistance, I don't know. This feels like kind of an evergreen topic.

Speaker 19 And I maybe would say to my publisher, let's kick the can on this a little bit.

Speaker 19 For the first hundred days, like my job is fighting fucking Donald Trump's authoritarian regime, not like, you know, making this needed, but, you know, kind of sadly evergreen points about the problem of anti-Semitism.

Speaker 20 Totally, totally. And then he also gave this interview to the New York Times.
I assume he gave it actually before Friday. I was thinking about that because Sunday Times often is pretty far in advance

Speaker 20 in which he just seems totally out of touch. I mean, he's going on about how I think the Republicans could fall away from Trump, but let's make him a little more unpopular.

Speaker 20 It happened in 2005 with Bush and

Speaker 20 as if it's the situation of the relationship between the president and the party in Congress is comparable.

Speaker 20 And, you know, but I work out in the gym with these guys, and when you're working out with them on the treadmill, you really, you know, you kind of get a real sense of who they are.

Speaker 20 And those Republicans, I mean, it's like you, it's not just cringe, but it is horrifying, honestly, because it does a window into how he's thinking. And I think he should go as leader.

Speaker 20 I hadn't been there a week ago. I mean, who cares who are the majority of the majority leaders in some ways? He's not necessarily the face of the party.
Other people should step up.

Speaker 20 But I actually think he's now an impediment in a way that, like, Jeffries probably isn't. He's just not, I don't know if he's a great leader or not, but he's not.

Speaker 20 Whereas Schumer is now epitomizes out of touchness to Trump's authoritarian project. And I don't know.

Speaker 20 Do you think there's a chance? I've picked up a couple of

Speaker 20 glimmers or murmurs about challenges to Schumer. Do you think if you heard anything, do you think there's a chance someone will actually literally challenge him this week? It could happen.

Speaker 19 I don't know. I kind of doubt somebody will challenge him this week.

Speaker 19 I had heard some murmurs before all this, like a month ago, that maybe Schumer himself was thinking that it might be the moment for him to sort of do what Mitch and Nancy had done and

Speaker 19 not not like leave the Senate, but step back and let somebody else be the leader.

Speaker 19 So I don't know if this type of out backlash against him is the type of thing that would encourage him more in that direction or the type of thing that would steal him, you know, and make him feel contrarian.

Speaker 19 I think it's pretty hard to see him getting pushed out before the next, the big reconciliation fight that is coming ahead. I mean, if you're him, that's what you're saying to your members, right?

Speaker 19 They're like, I have a plan, like we're going to fight them on this reconciliation bill. And the other thing is, there's not really an obvious person.

Speaker 19 I mean, I think that Chris Murphy's been great messaging-wise.

Speaker 19 He was the only one sounding fucking even close to reality on the Sunday shows this weekend on the Democratic side, or obviously there's nobody on the Republican side. But like, he's junior.

Speaker 19 You know, the people in the leadership voted with Schumer mostly. Didn't Klobuchar? I know Schatz did.
Dick Durbin is obviously not going to be it.

Speaker 19 So Klobuchar and Schatz are kind of like the next generation people in the leadership. And it's kind of, I don't know, do either of those names

Speaker 19 tickle your pickle.

Speaker 20 I mean, they should skip the people who are currently in leadership, certainly Durba Durban, obviously, and Patty Murray, who are both Schumer's age or more.

Speaker 20 But I wouldn't mind, I like Lobature personally, and I don't know whether they should

Speaker 20 much, but I'm okay with either of them, I suppose, if they want to run.

Speaker 20 But you know what, Chris Murphy, in my opinion, that I hadn't, I don't know the Democratic Conference well, and I'm just going to volunteer this irresponsible opinion.

Speaker 20 Chris Murphy should announce he's challenging him.

Speaker 20 He should get, if he can, I think you need 10 signatures, I understand it, to call a a special 20% of the conference can request a special meeting of the conference.

Speaker 20 I don't know what the rules are in terms of the actual challenge. I suppose at that meeting, someone nominates Murphy to replace Schumer.
And so fine, he'll lose.

Speaker 20 I guess he'll lose, you know, 35 to 15 or something, or however many there are, 35 to 12 or something, maybe less.

Speaker 20 But A, I think it would show something.

Speaker 20 And I don't think it would be, I suppose they wouldn't. Schumer wouldn't like it, but I think it would show a certain willingness to say, look, it can't just be business as usual.

Speaker 20 And if Schumer wins, Murphy can be gracious and defeat and say, well, good, we're all going to move ahead.

Speaker 20 But I hope I've sent at least a signal to Chuck that we need to be making our case to the American people a little more aggressively here and not assuming that jogging on the treadmill in the gym

Speaker 20 is the way to win over our Republican colleagues. So that's my advice to Chris Murphy.

Speaker 20 He watches you, right?

Speaker 41 He watches you every day.

Speaker 19 I think that sometimes a senator tunes in. Go for it.
Senator Murphy, the gym thing is such a triggering thing for me. She's like, we're fucking a decade into this.
All right.

Speaker 19 Like, these aren't, it's not like they're, oh, they're really good guys. They're going to do the right thing in the end.
We know that they're not going to. Like,

Speaker 19 God. I apologize for impugning Amy Klobuchar's integrity.
She was not one of the 10 that voted for cloture. So maybe she is the unity candidate.

Speaker 20 But this is one of these cases, though. Gene McCarthy wasn't the guy in 67 until he decided no one else is doing it.

Speaker 20 If Amy Klobuchar steps up, she'll be the person, right? I mean, it's not like whatever you were or however, you know, you've been 85%

Speaker 20 out there on the barricades or 65% until now, the person who says, I'm sorry, this is unacceptable. We need new leadership will be the person, I think.

Speaker 24 This is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast.

Speaker 25 Hello, darlings.

Speaker 24 I have a little seasonal secret to share.

Speaker 25 It's the new Kahlua Duncan caramel swirl.

Speaker 29 Kahlua, the beloved coffee liqueur, and Duncan, the beloved coffee destination, paired up to create a tree that is perfect for the holidays.

Speaker 33 Imagine rich, velvety caramel swirling through bold coffee flavor, kissed with that signature Kahlua warmth.

Speaker 34 It's like wrapping yourself in a cashmere blanket, but for your taste buds.

Speaker 24 Whether you're hosting a holiday brunch, trimming the tree, or just escaping your relatives for a moment of peace, this is your go-to indulgence and what your cocktail cart has been missing.

Speaker 33 Kahlua and Duncan, a pairing so perfect, it's like me in a well-organized pantry.

Speaker 34 So go ahead, treat yourself. After all, the holidays are about joy, celebration, and the little caramel swirl never hurt anyone.

Speaker 36 Cheers, my dears.

Speaker 40 Must be 21 or older to purchase. Drink responsibly.
Kahlua Caramel Swirl Cream Liqueurs, 16% Alcohol by Volume, 32 Proof. Copyright 2025 imported by the Kahlua Company, New York, New York.

Speaker 40 Duncan trademarks owned by DDIP Holder LLC. Used under license.
Copyright 2025, DDIP Holder LLC.

Speaker 4 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 7 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 10 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 2 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes. Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 9 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 14 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 19 I'm going to do much more on the economy tomorrow, but I do want to close with this because Scott Besson, the Treasury Secretary, who is just...

Speaker 19 not exactly, I think, instilling confidence in the markets out there, was on the shows this weekend, and I just wanted to play a couple of clips for his spin on what's happening with the economy right now.

Speaker 42 Let's talk about what happened in the stock market this week. Worst week for the market in two years.
Does that worry you, Mr.

Speaker 20 Secretary?

Speaker 41 Not at all.

Speaker 41 I've been in the investment business for 35 years, and I can tell you that corrections are healthy, they're normal. What's not healthy is straight up, that you get these euphoric markets.

Speaker 41 That's how you get a financial crisis it would have been much healthier if someone had put their brakes on in 06 07 we wouldn't have had the the problems in 08 so i i'm not worried about the markets the trump administration is comfortable to have consumers pay more for goods in america

Speaker 41 not at all christian what what i'm saying is the american dream is not let them eat flat screens that the if americans if american families aren't able to afford a home aren't don't believe that their children will do better than they are, the American dream is not contingent on cheap baubles

Speaker 41 from China, that it is more than that. And we are focused on affordability, but it's mortgages, it's cars, it's real wage gains.

Speaker 19 I don't know what's more alarming there, having a multi-billionaire tell people that being able to afford goods in their home is not part of the American dream or the fact that

Speaker 19 I don't think that he has watched the big short. I'm not even asking you to read the big short.
I don't think he understands what happened

Speaker 19 in the 2007 and 80 economic crisis. I don't think that the Dow, you know, giving off three or four points, you know, during the 2006 run-up would have done anything to prevent the mortgage crisis.

Speaker 19 But anyway, I don't know. In defense of the strategists, this does seem to be their shakiest political turf.

Speaker 20 But I also say that turf will take care of itself, so to speak. Like if the market's down 10%, it's down 10%.

Speaker 20 And it's, you know, every Democratic congressman should go around, I guess, telling his constituents, in case you didn't notice, the market's down 10%.

Speaker 20 And in case you didn't notice, inflation is not going down. And in case you didn't notice, super confidence doesn't seem great.

Speaker 20 But the one thing with the economy is you don't really need to go around doing this kind of sales job. But whatever.
If they want to talk about it, that's fine.

Speaker 20 If they want it, maybe they should say what they would do that was better. I mean, it's not too early to attack the Trump tax cuts, and I hope they do that.
I'm just so annoyed.

Speaker 20 Again, I almost, as you can tell, I can barely speak. I mean, I had friends, you did too, in New York, you know, kind of plugged into the financial world.

Speaker 20 He's Scott's he's good. He'll be a voice of moderation and also a grown-up person there.

Speaker 20 The reason he's defending all this, if you realize, about the ball quote, you know, the flat screen TVs is, of course, he's got to defend the idiotic tariffs, right?

Speaker 20 I mean, that's what, that's the reason he's backed into that. And he can't just say, look, the president's made a judgment.

Speaker 20 I think we can, I think it's going to help the economy, you know, whatever the vaguely respected thing is.

Speaker 20 He has to go in this demagogic, what, attack on consumers for caring that they could afford things. TV, is that like a luxury good these days?

Speaker 20 You're not allowed to want to have, be able to afford a television set so you can watch the SEAs for the next three weeks. I don't know.
I mean, I think it's, it's so tone-deaf.

Speaker 20 And politically, it is, I mean, people should attack him, honestly, though.

Speaker 20 And I think I hope Bernie Sanders and AOC spend the next week or two bitterly attacking him and making him look like a ridiculous, out-of-touch billionaire, which he certainly seems to be.

Speaker 19 They're on the road this week, AOC and Bernie, like later in the week, Arizona.

Speaker 20 We're on board.

Speaker 20 Yeah, Yeah, we should, we should, you should go out there with them and do like an exclusive interview on the for Tim Miller on for the bulwark with AOC and Bernie, you know, some of our former conservatives.

Speaker 19 We're both in Arizona this week. I think AOC and Bernie are there on Thursday, and we've got our sadly sold out for people who wanted to go live event on Saturday in Phoenix.
So, I don't know.

Speaker 19 Maybe we'll see them on the road. All right, Bill, one more thing before I lose you.
Chuck Schumer has actually canceled the book tour. So I guess he didn't want the heat that was coming to him.

Speaker 19 Don't blame him. Hopefully, he can turn to some more productive work on behalf of the minority party because the minority party does still exist in this country for now.
So there you go.

Speaker 19 Chuck Schumer, no book tour. Bill, get back to your baubles.
Get back to your silly little baubles, you know. And

Speaker 19 we'll see you next Monday. See you, Tim.
Everybody else, we'll be back here tomorrow for another edition of the Bullard Podcast. It's going to be a good one.
We'll see you all then. Peace.

Speaker 20 I don't got no march in me. I can't turn the other cheek.
Why they're testing your patience. They just testing my reach.
Funeral flowers every 28 hours. Being laid over hours.

Speaker 20 Sworn to protect and serve, but who really got the power? Looking over their allowances, building prisons where the mountains is. Laptops is for the county kids.
Metal detectors is where ours is.

Speaker 20 They'll never rewrite this.

Speaker 20 Like they rewrote history.

Speaker 20 The fact that the Statue of Liberty was black is a goddamn mystery. And so it goes.
Every truth don't get told. All these cops get cleared and lies are stole.
Every goose don't let go. Whoa.

Speaker 20 Just another nigga dead. Just another nigga dead.
Send another to the feds. Send another to the feds.
They calling the National Guard. Public enemy.
I am Chuck T.

Speaker 20 Flavor Flav and Louis V, but I'm Huey P. Woo.
The new elite.

Speaker 20 It's either you or me.

Speaker 20 Let the sun shine. Cause they dark clouds trying to ruin me.
It's more than more than more than more.

Speaker 20 Than Baltimore.

Speaker 20 From shore to shore.

Speaker 20 Our Lord.

Speaker 20 Patience torn.

Speaker 20 Patience gone.

Speaker 19 Oh Lord.

Speaker 19 Sunshine, sunshine.

Speaker 19 Sunshine, sunshine.

Speaker 19 The Bulwark podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

Speaker 18 Even though severe cases can be rare, respiratory syncytial virus or RSV is still the leading cause of hospitalization in babies under one.

Speaker 18 RSV often begins like a cold or the flu, but can quickly spread to your baby's lungs. Ask your doctor about preventative antibodies for your baby this season and visit protectagainstrsv.com.

Speaker 18 The information presented is for general educational purposes only. Please ask your healthcare provider about any questions regarding your health or your baby's health.

Speaker 44 Even when you're playing music,

Speaker 44 you're always listening to your baby, especially when RSV is on your mind.

Speaker 44 Baphortis, Nursevimab ALIP, is the first and only long-acting preventative antibody that gives babies the RSV antibodies they lack.

Speaker 44 Baphortis is a prescription medicine used to help prevent serious lung disease caused by RSV or respiratory syncytial virus in babies under age one born during or entering their first RSV season and children up to 24 months who remain at risk of severe RSV disease through their second RSV season.

Speaker 44 Your baby shouldn't receive Baphortis if they have a history of serious allergic reactions to Bifortis, Nircevimab ALIP, or any of its ingredients.

Speaker 44 Tell your baby's doctor about any medicines they're taking and all their medical conditions, including bleeding or bruising problems. Serious allergic reactions have happened.

Speaker 44 Get medical help right away if your child has any of the following signs or symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, such as swelling of the face, mouth, or tongue, difficulty swallowing or breathing, unresponsiveness, bluish color of skin, lips, or underfingernails, muscle weakness, severe rash, hives, or itching.

Speaker 44 Most common side effects include rash and pain, swelling, or hardness at their injection site. Individual results may vary.
Ask your baby's doctor about Bayfortis.

Speaker 44 Visit Bayfortis.com or call 1-855-BAFORTIS.

Speaker 18 Even though severe cases can be rare, respiratory syncytial virus or RSV is still the leading cause of hospitalization in babies under one.

Speaker 18 RSV often begins like a cold or the flu, but can quickly spread to your baby's lungs. Ask your doctor about preventative antibodies for your baby this season and visit protectagainstrsv.com.

Speaker 18 The information presented is for general educational purposes only. Please ask your healthcare provider about any questions regarding your health or your baby's health.