Bill Kristol: Kleptocrats and Plutocrats

Speaker 4 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovny, and Carise Van Houten.

Speaker 10 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 18 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 2 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 24 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 26 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 28 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 32 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 35 Ah, greetings for my bath, festive friends.

Speaker 36 The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 35 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 35 I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body.
Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 36 Save the offer and the app. NS1231, see PayPal.com slash promo terms, points give your renewing for cash and more paying for subject to terms of approval.
PayPal Inc. and MLS 910-457.

Speaker 36 Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.
Congrats to Enora.

Speaker 36 A great film on a win last night. Lots of wins at the Oscars and happy Lundy Gras.
Much has happened since we last taped.

Speaker 36 Had it not been my husband's 40th birthday and Mardi Gras weekend, I might have come back on to do an emergency pod. But,

Speaker 36 you know, sometimes you guys just got to wait for the good stuff. And so I got Bill Crystal back here, and it's Monday.
How are you doing, Bill?

Speaker 35 I'm doing fine. Sam and I did a pod yesterday.
You'll be glad to know, which covers some of this, but we can get into much more depth here. Sam, you know, you kind of skate across the surface.

Speaker 35 But Tim Miller, you're talking about the deep dives, you know?

Speaker 36 That is great to know. No, I was nursing a hangover yesterday, so I did not tune in for you and Sam, but people can get our little Sunday bonus conversations on Substack.

Speaker 36 So, you know, go to the bulwark, sign up for Bulwark Plus. You don't have to wait for me till Monday afternoon that way.
All right,

Speaker 36 where should we start? I think we got to start with the sneer heard round the world from J.D. Vance.

Speaker 36 I'm going to play a series of clips from the White House summit, so to speak, between Vladimir Zelensky, Putin.

Speaker 36 That was unintentional. Between Vladimir Zelensky, Trump

Speaker 36 in advance. Things were going okay.
I mean, you know, okay for Trump on the Trump scale until JD decided to interject into a question from the press about whether Trump had been too nice to Putin.

Speaker 36 Let's listen.

Speaker 37 All right, one more question.

Speaker 37 I will respond to this. So, look, for four years in the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 37 And then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy.

Speaker 37 We tried the pathway of Joe Biden of thumping our chest and pretending that the President of the United States's words mattered more than the President of the United States' actions.

Speaker 37 I signed with him, Macron and Merkel. We signed ceasefire.
Ceasefire, all of them told me that he will never go.

Speaker 37 We signed him with gas contract. Gas contract.
Yes, but after that, he broke the ceasefire. He killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners.

Speaker 37 We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it.

Speaker 37 What kind of diplomacy, GD, you are speaking about?

Speaker 37 What do you mean? I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.

Speaker 37 Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.

Speaker 37 Right Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems.

Speaker 37 You should be thanking the president for trying to bring it into this conference. You have never been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have.
I have been to

Speaker 37 I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know that what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President.

Speaker 37 Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military? I have problems. And do you think that it's respectful

Speaker 37 to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is

Speaker 37 trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

Speaker 37 A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning.
Sure. First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you.

Speaker 36 All right. We're going to get to then President Trump intervening there, but I wanted to start with JD since he kicked off the kerfuffle.
Kind of a mixed message there.

Speaker 36 He begins by condescendingly lecturing Zelensky about diplomacy and how we need diplomacy now.

Speaker 36 And then he proceeds to berate and chastise Zelensky, which isn't maybe the best form of diplomacy I've ever seen. But I'm curious what you thought about that, Bill.

Speaker 35 I mean, it was a setup, obviously, by Trump and J.D., I don't know if it was semi-bad cop and really bad cop or what, or maybe, but J.D. knew what he was doing.

Speaker 35 He had his little talking points prepared. They wanted to do what Trump later says in the treat,

Speaker 35 portray Zelensky as an enemy of peace to

Speaker 35 damage support for Zelensky here at home, especially among those Republicans, half of them on the Hill, right, who a year ago voted for aid to Ukraine, to carry out Trump's pro-Putin policy.

Speaker 35 He needs to move the entire Republican Party in his direction, or at least it would be helpful for him to do so, not just the half of it that's with him already.

Speaker 35 And that's what the purpose of this meeting was. Zelensky came here to sign a deal.

Speaker 35 I mean, he made big concessions, but he wanted to honor Trump's somewhat ridiculous, I believe, request and somewhat extortionate request for the deal on minerals. But he came here for that reason.

Speaker 35 And then they changed the deal and sandbagged Zelensky. And JD was kind of the heavier of the two sandbaggers, but Trump went pretty far too.

Speaker 36 And I guess it was definitely set up, but this all happens like 38 minutes in about to the press conference. And, you know, you get in, you're into the Q ⁇ A.
And at some level, Trump...

Speaker 36 you know, I think wants the show, you know, kind of like, oh, I'm going to make him come here and we're going to sign his way as minerals to us and say we got a great deal.

Speaker 36 And so, like, do you think Trump and JD thought that there was potentially a clean version of this or that it was a certain that JD was going to go at him? Because I'm not sure.

Speaker 35 Well, I think the way JD went at him left Zelensky no choice, A, B, if you think about the alleged deal they wanted a week ago, it included Zelensky holding elections in Ukraine.

Speaker 35 That's become a huge talking point on the pro-Trump right, which he's said he can't do and won't do, and the Constitution doesn't permit him to do in Ukraine. This deal is going nowhere anyway.

Speaker 35 So they weren't going to get a deal with Zelensky.

Speaker 35 They're not going to get a deal with Putin, I suspect, unless it's a total and utter just capitulation to let him keep fighting and devastating Ukraine.

Speaker 35 And so I think this was for Trump's domestic politics here more than anything else.

Speaker 36 Trevor Burrus: All right. So after JD intervenes, why aren't you thanking us? Why aren't you thanking us? After he's thanked us 100 million times.

Speaker 35 He literally had thanked Trump and repeatedly went out of his way, having been treated pretty badly by Trump, I've got to say, has tried to be respectful and thank him.

Speaker 36 But anyway, yeah. Yeah, here's then Trump kind of changing his tone.

Speaker 37 But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future.

Speaker 36 God bless you.

Speaker 37 You don't know that. God bless you.
God bless.

Speaker 37 Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem.
Don't tell us what we're going to feel. I'm not telling you.
Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember this.

Speaker 37 You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.

Speaker 37 We're going to feel very good.

Speaker 37 We're going to feel very good and very strong.

Speaker 37 You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position, and he happens to be right about.
In the very beginning of the war, you're not in a good position.

Speaker 37 You don't have the cards right now.

Speaker 36 The Trump thing kind of reminds me of like a couple that is fighting that when they have had a couple too many to drink, Trump's just like, don't tell me how to feel.

Speaker 36 The fight isn't about anything, right? Like Trump just lashes out at him and

Speaker 36 again, starts berating him, then gets into this metaphor about the cards. And like, it's not, I don't think he even understands what Zelensky's trying to say.

Speaker 36 Like, Zelensky's point is that, like, I didn't have the cards for day one. Everybody thought we were going to lose this war in three days.
And like, we fought and we fought.

Speaker 36 And I guess Trump just doesn't think about it from anybody's perspective besides his own feelings, I guess.

Speaker 35 Right. And they're the feelings of a bully.
So when Zelensky refuses to grovel, that sets Trump off. And there he was lecturing Zelensky.

Speaker 35 I mean, almost really unimaginable, I would say, that this was happening in the Oval Office. And I was struck, I'm sure you were, by I didn't see it.
I was at a conference. I saw it shortly after.

Speaker 35 But the number of texts and emails I had from people, including people who aren't that political, people I haven't been in touch with that much, people who were slightly more Trump adjacent than I,

Speaker 35 I guess that's a very low bar, but who are somewhat Trump adjacent, you know, and acquiescent, people were just sickened, as one person said to me, by the spectacle of a american president and vice president lecturing zielinski who we have all supported and correctly supported for for two and a half what three well three years exactly three years right

Speaker 40 some moments in your life stay with you forever in a special segment of on purpose i share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 44 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world.

Speaker 45 I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 47 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again.

Speaker 48 I wanted the same edition back.

Speaker 49 Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one.

Speaker 50 So I started searching, and that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay.

Speaker 42 It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live.

Speaker 51 Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story.

Speaker 39 eBay, things people love.

Speaker 43 Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 4 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 10 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 18 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 2 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 24 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 26 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 28 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 32 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 36 So a couple more clips, and I want to get into what the ramifications are now. But here is the next little bit where JD gets back in and things really, really derail.

Speaker 37 You have to be thankful. You don't have the cars.

Speaker 37 You're buried there.

Speaker 37 People are dying.

Speaker 37 You're running low on soldiers. Listen,

Speaker 37 you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing.

Speaker 37 Then you tell us, I don't want to ceasefire. I don't want to ceasefire.
I want to go and I want this.

Speaker 37 Look.

Speaker 37 If you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop calling killed. Of course, we want to stop the war.

Speaker 37 But I'm saying you don't want to ceasefire.

Speaker 37 I want to ceasefire.

Speaker 36 For just the audio listeners, for people who have not suffered through watching the videotape of this, when Trump is doing the, he does a Zelensky imitation there, where he's going, I don't want to ceasefire.

Speaker 36 I don't want to ceasefire. And he's making a moron face.
And it is about the most childish scene that you could possibly imagine inside the Oval Office in that little bit.

Speaker 35 Horrible.

Speaker 36 Okay, I got one more bill. I'm sorry.

Speaker 35 Yeah, you're really putting me through, making me suffer here.

Speaker 36 I am making you suffer. I'm making the listeners.
We have, it must be listened to. Like, it is outrageous.

Speaker 36 I re-watched the whole 48 minutes this morning because in the clips, it is appalling and shocking. But just like watching the contour of the conversation just completely derail.

Speaker 36 And like, let's be honest, just JD and Trump losing their cool.

Speaker 36 This is why I just I guess I object a little bit to like the fact that it was a setup because I think that clearly they had prepared you know how JD was going to go at him but like the degree to which these two just like lost their cool and start shouting like about their feelings and and about you know needing to be thanked and then it closes here with like something that it that could have been and it would almost be too rude to newsmax to explain what is next here as being a segment on Newsmax.

Speaker 36 And

Speaker 36 it is a rant from the furthest, most idiotic realms of the fever swamps. And it's the president of the United States.

Speaker 35 Let's listen to the last bit.

Speaker 37 She's asking, what if Russia breaks the ceasefire?

Speaker 37 What if anything? What if a bomb drops on your head right now?

Speaker 37 Okay? What if they broke it? I don't know. They broke it with Biden because Biden, they didn't respect him.
They didn't respect Obama. They respect me.

Speaker 37 Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia.
You ever hear of that deal?

Speaker 37 That was a phony Hunter Biden, Joe Biden scam. Hillary Clinton, shifty Adam Schiff.
It was a Democrat scam.

Speaker 37 And he had to go through that. And he did go through it.
We didn't end up in a war. And he went through it.
He was accused of all that stuff. He had nothing to do with it.

Speaker 37 It came out of Hunter Biden's bathroom. It came out of Hunter Biden's bedroom.
It was disgusting.

Speaker 36 What is he even talking about? Like, what came out of Hunter Biden's bedroom?

Speaker 35 I guess the laptop. He's conflating the Biden laptop, I suppose, with the alleged Russia hoax.
But I think it's very revealing. I think he does lose it there.

Speaker 35 I don't think that's part of the intention,

Speaker 35 I suspect. Very revealing that he thinks Putin went through it with him.
He and Putin are buddies. They are allies.
They were unfairly besmirched. They're together in this fight.

Speaker 35 I mean, he he just explicitly says that.

Speaker 35 There's no more of the pretense of, I'm a hard-headed guy negotiating with Putin, and there are some problems with what Russia's been doing at some point in the world, or maybe at some point in the 2016 election, after all.

Speaker 35 Nope. I mean, one forgets in 2016 he asked Russia to intervene.
I mean, this has been, but this is the full flowering, I'd say, of not just the abandonment of Zelensky, but the embrace of Putin.

Speaker 35 Yes, that is the correct insight.

Speaker 36 It is a tantrum by somebody that feels emotionally connected at some level to Putin. I guess maybe in his imagination, right? Like this notion that Putin somehow went through the Russia hoax.

Speaker 36 Putin was laughing through the whole thing. Putin's gotten everything that he wanted the whole time.

Speaker 36 He got a kick out of the Russia hoax. It achieved its ends.
I'm saying Russia hoax in scare quotes here, but like his interference in the election, it achieved his ends of dividing the country.

Speaker 36 It created a quasi-legitimacy in Trump or the challenging of his legitimacy. He got the person in there that he preferred who

Speaker 36 allowed him free reign to continue to expand his power.

Speaker 36 Putin has got everything that he wanted out of all of this up to and until when Ukraine started fighting back after he invaded Kyiv.

Speaker 36 Like Trump has constructed this imaginary other world where Putin was like him besieged by shifty Adam Schiff and the media and a shadowy cabal.

Speaker 35 You don't think Putin was really wounded, you know, suffering, you know, psychologically had a tough time when Adam Schiff criticized him. Yeah, it is funny.

Speaker 35 Trump is a thin-skinned bully, and he sort of wants to believe Putin is too.

Speaker 35 He must know at some level that Putin is infinitely tougher than he is and couldn't care less what Adam Schiff says and cares about results, not about feelings.

Speaker 35 But, you know, that is interesting, the psychology of that, right? Trump wants, he wants to put himself on the same level as Putin. He knows that he's not.

Speaker 36 It also just kind of ties into the whole manliness and masculinity conversation that they're all having, right?

Speaker 36 That it's like there is some notion that that kind of performative temper tantrum, the bullying, the talking down, the condescending to Zelensky is going to reveal themselves to be the tough ones rather than the ones like beset by their emotional distress and trying to intimidate somebody who's actually shown real courage.

Speaker 36 But I guess it seems to be like landing with at least their own voters.

Speaker 35 I mean, I think that's such an important point. I mean, Trump and J.D.
Vance would not have stayed in Kyiv on February 25th, 2022.

Speaker 35 They would have been on the first plane out and they and their families and whatever, you know, buddies they have in various schemes and grifts and so forth.

Speaker 35 They would have been leaving from wherever there was danger.

Speaker 35 At some level, there's a deep resentment of Zelensky for actually being courageous and manly and in his sl you know, slightly understated way, you might say.

Speaker 35 I think the not wearing the suit is a comical MAGA complaint, too, which normally they like, informality, authenticity, right?

Speaker 35 But in this case, Trump's the guy who wears the suit, advance in this case. So they have to turn it against Zelensky, like Churchill

Speaker 35 when he came to the White House in 1941, 42, 43, wore his kind of battle, you might say,

Speaker 35 battle fatigues in effect.

Speaker 36 The fallout from this, the minerals deal is not signed. What happens is after the temper tantrum that is thrown by the president and vice president, they retreat to their separate quarters.

Speaker 36 Trump and his team stays in the Oval Office. Zelensky and his goes to it.
I forget what other room they went to hold in.

Speaker 36 And then rather than go talk to Zelensky himself, Trump sends Waltz and Rubio in. We saw the continued shrinking of little Marco Rubio, who had to go and tell Zelensky to leave.

Speaker 36 Later that day, high-level administration sources said that military aid is now in question, and the quote is they're fortunate. It is not off already.

Speaker 36 So that's kind of where things stand on the deal. And then yesterday on Sunday, European leaders met without us.
It was in London, was

Speaker 36 France, Germany, Canada, UK. They met.
They signaled that they're doubling down on supporting Ukraine and maybe boosting military aid.

Speaker 36 But obviously, there's a lot of frustration and hard feelings at the White House. So what say you about the current state of life?

Speaker 35 No, it's a big moment. It's the continuation of what we saw already two weeks ago, obviously, with the Trump Putin phone call, the Heg Seth and J.D.
Vance speeches, the Rubio visit to Riyadh.

Speaker 35 This is kind of the culmination of it, I would say, the betrayal of Ukraine. There was no fresh military aid coming from Trump anyway.

Speaker 35 The idea that he's cutting it off because Zelensky was disrespectful is, in a way, I think, ridiculous. Maybe he'll stop some of the aid that's already in the pipeline, I suppose.

Speaker 35 The degree to which the Europeans saw right away what was happening is striking. A friend sent me some headlines from German newspapers on Saturday, and they saw this was not just about Ukraine.

Speaker 35 it was about fundamental pivot of American foreign policy. Forget about NATO, forget about Europe, forget about defending democracy.
He's with Putin. He'll be cutting deals with Putin

Speaker 35 in accord with what he sees to be their interests.

Speaker 35 German foreign minister had a terrific speech where she said how terrifying and terrible it was that America joined the side of the perpetrators, not the victims, of aggression and of crimes.

Speaker 35 And so Europe understood right away. Russia understood.
There's a good article in the Washington Post this morning quoting various Putin spokespeople and allies about how happy they are.

Speaker 35 It was a gift. The whole thing is why everything's wonderful.
These are basically, we don't even have to. We've got this here.

Speaker 36 This is Peskoff. Yeah, Peskov says the new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations.
This largely aligns with our vision. Right.

Speaker 35 And that's the truth. And they're happy.
You know, it's interesting. They want to rub it in, right? They don't

Speaker 35 want to give Trump a lot of dignity. They don't mind humiliating him a little, but maybe they think that makes him even more susceptible to being pushed around further.

Speaker 35 And I'm not so sure they're going to make a deal, so they may want to also sort of get ready to really just try to conquer all of Ukraine and dare Trump to do anything, which they seem pretty convinced he won't.

Speaker 35 So the Europeans are in a state correctly. We'll see if they can help Ukraine defend itself.
I'm worried about six months or 18 to 24 months from now that they decide, oof, we're over here, the U.S.

Speaker 35 has walked away, we better cut our own deals with Russia, start the energy going again. And you can imagine a very bad cascade of appeasement.

Speaker 35 But I've got to say, to their credit, that has not been happening yet. And their reaction has been the opposite.
They do not want to betray Ukraine. And Zelensky is not going to give up.

Speaker 35 And Ukraine is not going to give up. But sustaining the world order without the U.S.
on side, asking the Europeans to do it and our Asian friends to do it, that's a tall task.

Speaker 35 I would have been very skeptical it could happen a year ago. Now I think maybe they can do it for a while at least until we come back on side.

Speaker 35 The other point I'll make just is that Congress could act to mitigate some of the damage, but that would require a few Republicans having some courage. And we haven't seen a lot of that,

Speaker 35 did we, this weekend? We saw a couple, right?

Speaker 36 Yeah, I mean, Don Bacon was on 60 Minutes, I guess. But

Speaker 36 I mean, the next time that he does something actually substantive rather than just with his words will be the first time. So we'll believe it when I see it.

Speaker 38 Some moments in your life stay with you forever.

Speaker 40 In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 44 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world.

Speaker 45 I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 47 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again.

Speaker 48 I wanted the same edition back.

Speaker 49 Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one.

Speaker 43 So I started searching.

Speaker 50 And that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay.

Speaker 41 It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live.

Speaker 51 Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story.

Speaker 39 eBay, things people love.

Speaker 43 Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 4 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 10 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 18 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 2 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 24 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 26 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 28 One thing's for sure: the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 32 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 36 I mean, just kind of gaming this out as you sort of talked about the potential

Speaker 36 ways that it could develop as far as Europe is concerned. Just think of the position Trump is in now.
Like, the sticking point

Speaker 36 that really undergirded this disagreement, like beyond like JD Vance just like wanting to be a condescending douche, like the actual substantive sticking point was that Zelensky is trying to say, I need security guarantees,

Speaker 36 like that, that we can't trust Putin if you make a deal, right?

Speaker 36 Like we might make a deal, and then, you know, who knows, a few months later, he props up another reason to make an incursion somewhere or whatever,

Speaker 36 test the deal. I need security guarantees.
And Trump didn't want to do that, didn't want to give those. And

Speaker 36 from our position now, it's like even if

Speaker 36 Zelensky comes back tail between his legs, Mark Thieson is writing in the Washington Post opinion page today, it's unclear today whether this, whether sucking up to Trump fits under free markets or personal liberties in the new rubric on the Washington Post opinion page.

Speaker 36 But he wrote that Zelensky must suck up to Trump for the good of his country and must come back and must get on Trump's good side and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 36 Even if that happened, there's not really a situation where you could trust either side of a security guarantee if you're Zelensky, right?

Speaker 36 Like maybe you have to do such a deal anyway, and it's just pragmatic, hope for the best, you know, cross the next bridge when you get there type situation.

Speaker 36 But like, you know, it's hard to really conceive that Donald Trump is going to offer any real security, even if we have some skin in the game with rare earth minerals or whatever.

Speaker 35 I mean, totally. That's really a key point.
I mean, who would trust Trump?

Speaker 35 Let's say there's a fake peace agreement and even Russia gets some additional territory or something and they're doing horrible things in the territory they have and then they have a fake excuse for

Speaker 35 an incursion. What is Trump going to do?

Speaker 35 But this is where the Europeans saw this too and saw that, just to take that to the next step, what is NATO anymore?

Speaker 35 NATO depends on Article 5 and on the assumption that we're all in if someone's attacked. Will Trump act if the Russians do a little green men thing in Estonia? Will Trump act if the Russians try to

Speaker 35 subvert governments of NATO members as they have been trying in Romania and elsewhere? I mean, the degree to which the whole post-war structure is at risk, not just Ukraine.

Speaker 35 I mean, that I think is what the Europeans saw right away. And that's where they're really talking pretty seriously.

Speaker 35 Again, I can't quite believe they can sustain a security arrangement without the U.S. being the anchor.
That's been the case. We have been for 80 years.
Maybe they will.

Speaker 35 The incoming Chancellor Meritz is talking that way. They are increasing defense spending.
It looks like they're going to. We'll see.
I'm very worried that that's hard to sustain.

Speaker 35 They'll have their own domestic politics. Parties in Europe are going to say, what are we doing here? America's gone in the other direction.

Speaker 35 We need to go that way too. So I'm very worried about that.
And as we were saying, how much is Congress going to do? In theory, Europe and Congress could sort of make up for a U.S. president, maybe.

Speaker 35 But we haven't had to run this experiment for 80 years, right? We haven't had a situation where an American president fundamentally wants to just destroy the post-World War II order.

Speaker 36 Yeah, and we talked about this with Susan Glasser on the show a couple of episodes ago, and she makes the same point about Estonia. And it's like, it's impossible to fathom, right?

Speaker 36 Like at this point, that Trump would come to the defense of one of these other NATO countries. I mean, maybe, you know, who the hell knows, right?

Speaker 36 You know, the last person in his ear at the right moment ends up being somebody that flatters him in the right kind of way, but there's certainly no reason to have any belief that we would.

Speaker 36 And that does call into question the whole NATO agreement at this point. Meanwhile, it is worth mentioning the war is ongoing.
Russia launched an attack on Kharkiv

Speaker 36 yesterday that injured eight, including a seven-year-old child. And I just, I think that that is important to like point out because

Speaker 36 the Trump advance side of this argument is kind of, it's premised on this notion that like Russia is behaving. Like we're not even asking anything from Russia.

Speaker 36 Russia is not the problem child child here, right? Like, it's Ukraine that's the problem. And if we just decide to come to the table, then it'll all be good.
Putin will do what we ask.

Speaker 36 And that is like in total conflict with what has actually

Speaker 36 happened.

Speaker 35 And I think it was a Friday or Saturday that the Washington Post reported that under Pete Hagseth, presumably with Trump sign-off, the Defense Department has stopped a program that was trying to both deal with Russian cyber offenses and other kinds of sort of, well, you know, those kinds of offenses, let's say non-kinetic offenses, here in the U.S.

Speaker 35 And also, we had some counteroffensives presumably going on to disrupt their stuff, and they seem to have called that off. So basically, we're not considering Russia an enemy anymore.

Speaker 35 I mean, how long can the sanctions last once you have this attitude? I mean, why should Trump even keep them on at this point? He has no, what's the reason?

Speaker 35 What's he asking for? What's he punishing Putin for? One thing that really alarmed me about the article in the post, it's a little murky, and I'd be curious to see follow-up reporting.

Speaker 35 It feels like we're also letting down all our defenses against Russian intervention in the 2026 or 2028 elections.

Speaker 35 I mean, why do we have, let's go back, why do we have this concern with Russian cyber and social media type activities? I think we have good reasons to have those concerns.

Speaker 35 Well, as Trump said in 2016, he wanted Russia to intervene, right? What did he say? Please release the emails. I guess that was about the stolen emails with WikiLeaks.

Speaker 35 But Trump, he likes Putin because he likes Putin. He likes authoritarians.

Speaker 35 He also likes Putin because he himself wants to be an authoritarian here, and he thinks Putin might, well, be a useful ally to have in that effort.

Speaker 36 What it said was that Heg Seth ordered the U.S. Cyber Command to stand down all planning against Russia, including offensive digital actions, according to three people familiar with the matter.

Speaker 36 So we'll see. But I think your point is well taken that.

Speaker 36 If you just accept the Trump framework presented at the press conference in Sense, and frankly, at the speech Shady Vance gave in Europe, et cetera, if you accept their framework, there is no rationale for sanctions on Russia, right?

Speaker 36 Like the sanctions on Russia are there because of their invasion into Ukraine and because of their actions

Speaker 36 targeting our elections, right? Like Trump thinks that those were a hoax and that Ukraine was asking for it because they were wearing their skirt too short. So like they've put themselves in a box.

Speaker 36 Maybe they want to be in this box, but they've put themselves in a position where it makes it very challenging for them to even make the case in a way that is coherent for changing course beyond the course, the very Russia favorable course that they're on.

Speaker 36 So.

Speaker 38 Some moments in your life stay with you forever.

Speaker 40 In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 44 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world.

Speaker 45 I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 47 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again.

Speaker 48 I wanted the same edition back.

Speaker 49 Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one.

Speaker 43 So I started searching.

Speaker 50 And that's when I found it on eBay.

Speaker 47 That's what I love about eBay.

Speaker 41 It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live.

Speaker 51 Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story.

Speaker 34 eBay.

Speaker 39 Things people love.

Speaker 43 Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 4 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 10 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 18 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 2 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 24 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 26 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 28 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 32 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 36 We have tariffs also happening tonight, maybe. We'll see.
Trump insisted that the tariffs on goods imported from Canada and Mexico will go into effect Tuesday because of fentanyl, I guess.

Speaker 36 And he also doubled the tariffs on China to 20%.

Speaker 36 The question is whether he will once again do the, I'm giving you a reprieve because you're sending mounties to the border thing with Canada or Mexico.

Speaker 36 Howard Luttnick floated yesterday on Fox, the Commerce Secretary, that Trump is considering reducing the tariffs down from 25%.

Speaker 36 TBD, I guess

Speaker 36 you don't want to keep going around and around here with their little Kabuki Theater Act, but I do think that they're in a tenuous spot economically.

Speaker 36 I think that's actually really the more relevant point here. Like the market has not been doing well, market's been coming back down.
A lot of concerns.

Speaker 36 The Atlanta Fed projections for GDP growth last week, way down from where they were after Trump was elected. And, you know, so this kind of stuff is going to have real impact.

Speaker 36 And eventually, again, it's similar to this box that I'm talking about with Russia.

Speaker 36 He's like rhetorically put himself in a box where he's going to have to do these things at some point, you would think, or else he would feel weak and humiliated. But I don't know.
We'll see.

Speaker 35 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the terrorist thing is the most bewildering.
I mean, in the sense that that just seems genuinely to be his obsession.

Speaker 35 And I don't even think it's really a bit of a MAGA obsession, particularly.

Speaker 35 And if you combine it with slightly rising inflation, which looks to be the case, and slightly rising unemployment, which could be the case, that could really hurt the economy.

Speaker 35 I mean, it's interesting. I mean, what do you think, Denny? If the economy is weaker six months from now, does that make Trump revert to more normy Republicanism?

Speaker 35 Or does it increase his temptation and tendency to go in a sort of real authoritarian direction?

Speaker 36 Aaron Powell, Jr.: It's a great question and one that I've been thinking about. And

Speaker 36 my gut says that

Speaker 36 it would lead to panic. Right.
And lashing out and moving more towards the authoritarian direction.

Speaker 36 I don't know. I mean, I guess it kind of depends on how bad it is, right?

Speaker 36 But if it's just kind of somewhat bad and things are, you know, muddling along and things are not great on the margins and, you know, he's got rich guys in his ear saying, okay, this is hurting us too much.

Speaker 36 You got to back off it. You got to get the tax cut through.

Speaker 36 I could see that as a possible outcome here.

Speaker 36 But if things get really hairy, right, like you can get to a point of hairiness where like getting rid of the tariffs and passing a tax cut or whatever doesn't really remediate the problem, right?

Speaker 36 And so I think that

Speaker 36 the worse things get, the more unhinged he would get and the more he would move towards even further down the authoritarian path. I guess is my is my instinct.
I don't know.

Speaker 36 And this is the thing about the first Trump term is pre-COVID, he like got pretty lucky.

Speaker 36 right like there weren't a lot of forces outside of his control that created crises really and COVID, like we saw just a massive panic and foul up.

Speaker 36 And so I kind of think that COVID, what we saw during COVID is kind of what we would see here. But I don't know.
Who knows? What do you make of that?

Speaker 35 And maybe what we saw after

Speaker 35 November 3rd to January 6th.

Speaker 35 No, I think we just, again, have to come back to how the first Trump term featured James Madison, Secretary of Defense, and Tillerson, whatever one thought of him, but then Pompeo, Secretary of State, and Bolton in there, and the White House Master, then Bolton.

Speaker 35 I mean, such a different cast of characters of the Republican Party that still had some memory that they were supposed to act as members of Congress and not simply as Trump lackeys.

Speaker 35 I mean, they were pretty bad, don't get me wrong, but it's so different. That's, I guess, what strikes one the most, right?

Speaker 35 Marco Rubio pathetically trying to climb into Trump's, make stay in, I guess, Trump's, not even good graces, but enough graces that he doesn't get fired tomorrow.

Speaker 35 The most pathetic statement they put out afterwards, you know, kind of, and then Lindsey Graham, too.

Speaker 35 And what was striking about those two statements is they really were Stalinists or Stalinoid, I guess is the word, in the sense that it wasn't just, look, it's, you know, Trump did the right thing and Zelensky has to come around.

Speaker 35 It wasn't Mark Teason. Zelensky has to come around.
We still have a chance to make this all work, but Zelensky has to be a nicer guy.

Speaker 35 That would be bad, but that would be a kind of coherent pointed statement by someone who is pro-Trump, but does actually want to help Ukraine. They did not go that way, right?

Speaker 35 They really were all in to show Trump that Trump had said Zelensky was a threat to peace or couldn't be a partner for peace. And we're saying the exact same thing.

Speaker 35 And then Lindsay says something about we just may have to, in effect, get rid of Zelensky.

Speaker 35 So we are, I mean, the degree to which they felt they had to abase themselves is, I think, very, sadly, very revealing. But yeah, in terms of the authoritarianism, I don't know.
Yeah,

Speaker 35 he really triples down on the deportations, more than to Guantanamo Onamo, more horrible treatment of them, more raids.

Speaker 35 I mean, you can imagine very ugly scenarios in that area in immigration, as well as in others. And

Speaker 35 what if it does come out out and say that some of these Doge efforts, I don't know, God forbid, what if a real public health, real current, quick public health effect?

Speaker 35 I think the indirect effects are terrible for what our biomedical research capability will be five years from now and the kinds of people who will go into those things and keeping decent people in government.

Speaker 35 There are a million problems. But what if Ebola gets loose in Africa or something? I mean, the degree to which Trump is not the type to say, gee, I guess we made a mistake.

Speaker 35 We need to restore this stuff. Maybe he would.
He's done that a couple of cases, I guess, in the last two, three weeks. I don't know.
What do you think?

Speaker 36 Yeah, I mean, he doesn't like bad news. The thing that has always protected us the most from disaster with Trump is like he does have a hole in his heart where he wants to be loved.

Speaker 36 You know, he plays the role of a tough guy who doesn't care, but he really does.

Speaker 36 And so there have been several occasions where, you know, he got bad news and then, you know, you kind of back off, do some face-saving thing.

Speaker 36 So I'm not saying that he wouldn't do that, but I guess my point is sometimes problems get out of your control, right?

Speaker 35 It doesn't matter whether he backs off at that point.

Speaker 36 Right. Exactly.
One more thing on the Doge.

Speaker 36 Sam Stein is reporting this in the morning shots newsletter this morning. People should sign up for it.
Nick Enrich, who is the acting assistant administrator for global health at USAID,

Speaker 36 he was placed on administrative leave for disseminating memos outlining the failure of the Trump administration to follow through on its pledge to allow waivers for certain types of life-saving foreign aid.

Speaker 36 He sent another memo that the bulwark received.

Speaker 36 And I mean, it's pretty alarming, just talking about like the degree to which these cuts are going to have massive ramifications for children, malnourished children, pregnant women, obviously people with HIV and AIDS in Africa.

Speaker 36 And, you know, again, this is a situation where Trump allowed Musk to go do the cuts. Rubio had said that he wanted to reinstate certain types of aid, and it's not happening.

Speaker 36 It's not getting reinstated. The damage is happening.
And

Speaker 36 the guy that's blowing the whistle on it, instead of them backing off more and trying to put in place the waivers that Rubio wanted, the guy is getting put on administrative lead.

Speaker 36 I mean, I think that's a pretty alarming example of what we'd expect to see.

Speaker 35 I've been thinking a little about how, sort of, what the domestic policy and foreign policy sides have in common.

Speaker 35 And it does seem to be a similar kind of just utter recklessness and cavalier attitude towards existing structures. Again, one could imagine some of these areas of AID and

Speaker 35 NIH and so forth saying, look, we really want to save money. We want to weed out a third, a half, two-thirds of some of what's being spent in some of these programs.

Speaker 35 We're going to do it in a systematic way. And a year from now, you'll see progress.
Two years from now, usually presidents have a four-year horizon, right? Four years from now, we'll be down 60%.

Speaker 35 You guys will be really pleased. And you won't notice anything because, you know what? A lot of this money was wasted and was spent on DEI and on, you know, woke stuff and all this.

Speaker 35 That's the normal thing you do, leaving aside whether they would have been right that the money is wasted.

Speaker 35 The recklessness, the pleasure they take in the slashing, in leaving pregnant women without care in Africa or in firing civil servants who've worked hard for X number of years with no notice, I mean, which again is utterly unnecessary.

Speaker 35 The amount of money at stake is minute compared to giving them, you know,

Speaker 35 not renewing their contracts for people a year from now or treating people in a decent way. They like the cruelty of Doge.
They like the cruelty in a way of bullying Zelensky.

Speaker 35 But the recklessness in both cases, assuming that things won't just really go bad in the world or at home, is what the foreign and domestic policy sector got.

Speaker 35 Elon's Doge and Trump's treatment of Zelensky are sort of parallel in some ways.

Speaker 35 And I don't know, could, we're a big, strong country, you know, we could survive a lot of bad things and maybe six months from now it won't feel that different in people's lives.

Speaker 35 But I'm not so sure about that, really. I'm very struck just a number of people I've talked to.
I don't know if you found this, not political people. I'm here in D.C., so I hear more of them.

Speaker 35 You know, the brain drain and the character drain we're going to have for the U.S. government, two people in the military, friends of friends, I don't know them, wanted to come see me privately.

Speaker 35 Thought maybe I could give them some advice. I don't know if I really have much good advice.
They're, you know, mid-career rising stars in the military, young people, a little younger even than you.

Speaker 35 And they were going to stay in, they assumed, and that make that their profession for they hoped, I think, to become general officers, very high up.

Speaker 35 And now they don't, do they want to be there with this stuff going on?

Speaker 35 Do they want to have to weigh whether they have to obey orders that they think might be unlawful, but they won't have a JAG to help tell them that because they fired the JAGs and they're putting in compliant people, presumably.

Speaker 35 The number of people, and this is the military, then there's public health, and there's a million other things, right? I mean, the Justice Department,

Speaker 35 the degree to which, whatever one thinks of the civil service, the military, the civilians at DOD, the public health establishment, they all are not perfect, God knows.

Speaker 35 But the degree to which we're putting it all at risk, and again, for what? For what? I mean, because they have suffered.

Speaker 37 For what?

Speaker 35 That's what I don't understand, really, honestly, though. I mean, you know.

Speaker 36 Enjoyment of other people's suffering, I guess. Right.

Speaker 36 I mean, for, you know, to be able to say that they are going after these shadowy elites that people hate, I guess, as part of their imaginary internet war, really, I think is the answer.

Speaker 36 That they are on the other side of this kind of like imaginary culture battle that they think that they're fighting through tweets. And

Speaker 36 I don't know, because it's not about balancing the budget. We know that based on that.

Speaker 35 No, they're not earnest libertarians who have convinced themselves excessively that the private sector will do this better. And we've got some studies here from

Speaker 35 Cato and some other AI show.

Speaker 35 That's not the spirit in which it's being done. That might be dangerous in its own way, but that's not the spirit in which that was Reagan to some degree.

Speaker 35 That's not the spirit in which this is being done, you know.

Speaker 38 Some moments in your life stay with you forever.

Speaker 39 In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey.

Speaker 42 and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 39 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world.

Speaker 45 I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 47 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again.

Speaker 48 I wanted the same edition back.

Speaker 49 Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one.

Speaker 50 So I started searching, and that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay.

Speaker 42 It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live.

Speaker 51 Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story.

Speaker 45 eBay, things people love.

Speaker 43 Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 4 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 9 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 18 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 2 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 24 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 26 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 28 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 32 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 36 In addition to recklessness, the one also hallmark of Trumpism is the corruption.

Speaker 36 So we should close by talking about the crypto scam, which I think might end up being the biggest scam in the history of American politics.

Speaker 36 To show you my sense for things this morning, like where I was at, I was

Speaker 36 going back to the teapot dome scandal. And I was like, how much money was involved in the teapot dome scandal?

Speaker 36 It turns out it was $400,000 at the time, was the bribe, which is about $6 million in current dollars. So, not nothing.
I mean,

Speaker 36 that is a big scandal. That was certainly

Speaker 36 something worth creating controversy and firings over and ignominy. But what is happening in crypto is going to be unbelievable compared to that, like 10, 20, 100x.

Speaker 36 Here's the announcement Trump put up.

Speaker 36 A U.S. crypto reserve will elevate this critical industry after years of corrupt attacks by the Biden administration.

Speaker 36 Every accusation is a confession, which is why my executive order on digital assets directed the presidential working group to move forward on a crypto-strategic reserve that includes these three particular currencies.

Speaker 36 Then he

Speaker 36 adds to the thread later, because I guess probably somebody who had money in Bitcoin or Ethereum was mad that they were not specifically singled out, maybe his son, Eric.

Speaker 36 So he adds, and obviously, Bitcoin and Ethereum as other valuable cryptocurrencies will be the heart of the reserve. I also love Bitcoin and Ethereum.
exclamation point.

Speaker 36 How is this the fucking president of the United States that is sending this? Like, this is like a late-night television scam-level rhetoric here about his support for Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Speaker 36 Eric Trump had tweeted last week about crypto, buy the dip, exclamation point, which seems a little bit like some insider trading knowledge to me. I don't know.

Speaker 36 I guess we would leave that up to the totally toothless SEC to look into.

Speaker 36 But just to sum this up in the way that is the most simple, the theory of the case here is that cryptocurrencies are so valuable.

Speaker 36 This digital gold, so to speak, is going to be so valuable in the future that the United States needs to, the United States government needs to purchase and hold massive quantities of several different types of Bitcoin

Speaker 36 to hold in some kind of digital Fort Knox that we need to have for who knows, God knows what, in the future to ensure that the United States has enough of

Speaker 36 these supposed currencies, you know, in order to, I don't know, deal with some future crypto-related crisis. It is an absurd proposition.
Bitcoin and Ethereum have like some value.

Speaker 36 Some of these other ones have no value.

Speaker 36 It is literally like buying the U.S.

Speaker 36 government, like buying pet rocks or beanie babies or something and being like, we're going to hold these in a strategic reserve somewhere to make sure that in the future we have enough babies for the beanie market.

Speaker 36 And it is a preposterous scheme. It is going to enrich Trump family.
The Secretary of Commerce, Howard Luttnick, and his family are very deeply invested in this.

Speaker 36 David Sachs, who is the crypto czar, says that he divested from crypto, but it's unclear exactly what all that leads to. I mean, there's like no words for the preposterousness of this.
proposed plan.

Speaker 36 So I don't know. Do you have any words for me?

Speaker 35 No, you've described it very well. Someone said this would be illegal in every country in the world.
This is not like, oh, the U.S. has very strict rules.

Speaker 35 We have SEC. This is just a slightly more relaxed attitude.
This is just stealing money from the taxpayers.

Speaker 35 Or from marks, or from, I suppose, the marks who didn't, you know, who didn't know when they were supposed to buy and when they were supposed to sell on these exchanges.

Speaker 36 Yeah, the Trump coin, you're stealing from the marks, okay, which is bad enough in itself, right?

Speaker 36 The fact that our president is like running a massive pump pump and dump operation to steal money from regular people in order to enrich himself and also to create a fund where other people can bribe him, including possibly Chinese nationals like Justin Sun, who put in tens of millions of dollars into Trump's various digital grips.

Speaker 36 And now the SEC is no longer prosecuting him. Convenient.

Speaker 36 I had this guy, Jason Calicanis, on the podcast a while back, and some of the listeners, you know, maybe might not have been their favorite episode for some of them because Jason was Trump curious, I guess I would call him.

Speaker 36 Not really, not really pro-Trump, but certainly, you know, not anti-Trump to the degree that we are. He's a tech guy.

Speaker 36 He has a podcast, including he's on a podcast with the Trump crypto czar, David Sachs. So I think this is interesting because, you know, him and David have a relationship.

Speaker 36 And like he wrote this, it's a terrible idea to spend taxpayer money buying the crypto bags of the people who donated many millions to him.

Speaker 36 It's even worse idea to pick winners, like pick random cryptocurrencies to invest in. He puts it like this.
Why not a U.S. strategic tech reserve where we buy Apple, Google, and Microsoft shares?

Speaker 36 Why not a real estate strategic reserve where we buy real estate assets from huge companies? When you put it in these kind of contexts, you just see how ridiculous this is.

Speaker 36 And the people that are going to benefit from this are the people that have invested their money in these currencies, made big, these, they're not currencies, but like made big bets into these crypto assets.

Speaker 36 And like now, thanks to the taxpayers, like they're going to see a huge return. We've already seen it this morning.
Like all these currencies that Trump named are up 10%.

Speaker 36 So if you like listen to Eric Trump last week when he said buy the dip, you've made now 10% just on the speculation side of it.

Speaker 36 Like imagine the amount of money these guys would make if we really put US taxpayer dollars into their like worthless cryptocurrencies.

Speaker 36 It's like truly, I guess that's just like, I mean, at least in Teapot Dome, they were selling land that existed

Speaker 36 to drill oil in for cash. I mean,

Speaker 36 it was just a good old-fashioned corruption. You know, I'm going to give you something in exchange for cash.

Speaker 36 In this case, we're just giving people's taxpayer dollars away in exchange for essentially nothing so that a bunch of people can make a lot of money. It's truly astonishing.

Speaker 35 Do you think the kleptocratic and plutocratic side of this Trump, second Trump administration, it was always there, obviously, in the first one, but so much more visible and shameless and massive and expensive.

Speaker 36 Just think about his whole career.

Speaker 35 Do you think they could pay some political price for that?

Speaker 36 Yeah, I think potentially. No, of course I think they could pay a political price for this.
I mean, some crypto people are going to like it, so we'll get some political benefit from

Speaker 36 some corners. But like, of course, I think that they could end up paying a political price.
A lot of people didn't sign up for this.

Speaker 36 And again, Trump somehow was able to maintain the reputation of being the apprentice business guy Trump rather than being the guy that went bankrupt in casinos and had a fake university and had all these other pyramid schemes and other things that he was involved in.

Speaker 36 So

Speaker 36 I do think that the second Trump term could end up looking, you know, being the Trump university of terms where all of his scams crumble around us.

Speaker 36 Unfortunately, you know, he would suffer a political price for that, but a lot of us are going to suffer too. So there you go.
Bill, any other final thoughts?

Speaker 35 No, that was well said. All right.

Speaker 36 Everybody else, it's Mardi Gras tomorrow. Are you ready to celebrate? Are you ready to celebrate?

Speaker 36 Am I going to do an uplifting episode tomorrow? I don't know. Probably not.
But we'll have some fun Mardi Gras music to go with the episode. We'll see you all back here then.

Speaker 36 Have a good one. Peace.

Speaker 53 You could thank me now.

Speaker 53 Thank me later. Yeah, I know what I said.

Speaker 53 But later doesn't always come, so instead,

Speaker 53 It's up okay you can thank me now

Speaker 53 Yeah

Speaker 53 Well alright

Speaker 53 Yeah, I go

Speaker 53 My hollow from the hardest act to follow Lately I've been drinking like there's a message in a bottle Aloha

Speaker 53 info I give to you niggas. I'm on the brink of influential.
I'm here for you niggas. I guess a hit doesn't add up to a career for you niggas.
I must have been hard to watch.

Speaker 53 What a year for you niggas. It's December 31st, and we in Miami just meditating.
You got your resolutions, we just got reservations. Living out a dream, it feels like it stayed up.

Speaker 53 And we just wanna party. Pat rhymes straight up.
Fuck that old shit. I'm on new things.

Speaker 53 OVO click, Red Wing Boot Gang. Yeah, we want it all, half was never the agreement.
Who'd have thought the route we chosen would ever end up as scenic?

Speaker 53 I could relate to kids going straight to the league when they recognize that you got what it takes to succeed. And that's around the time that your idols become your rivals.

Speaker 53 You make friends with Michael, gotta AI him for your survival. Damn, I swear sports and music are so synonymous.
Cause we wanna be them and they wanna be us.

Speaker 53 Yeah, so on behalf of the demanded and the entertainment that you take for granted,

Speaker 53 could thank me now. And oh my goodness, you're welcome, you're welcome.
At this point, me is who I'm trying to save myself from. Rappers hit me up and I never know what to tell them.

Speaker 53 Cause they think that I can help them get back to where they felt from. But drink up, cause everyone here is good tonight.
Except the niggas that I came with, they good for life.

Speaker 53 Yeah, that's how you know it's going down. In case another chance never comes around, you could thank me now.

Speaker 53 Go ahead.

Speaker 53 Date me later. Yeah, I know what I said

Speaker 53 But later doesn't always come so instead

Speaker 53 It's the okay Jupiter take me now

Speaker 36 The Borg podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown

Speaker 35 The kind of fishing hackers do online is a lot like this kind of phishing.

Speaker 35 They cast their lines, bogus emails, fake websites, deceptive login screens, hoping you'll take the bait. With online phishing, there's no calm, no peace.
Well, until now.

Speaker 35 With Cisco Duo, fishing season is over.

Speaker 35 Duo goes beyond multi-factor authentication, delivering end-to-end phishing resistance built on passwordless authentication, session theft protection, and help desk verification, all at half the cost of traditional solutions.

Speaker 35 So when fishers cast their lines, they come back with nothing at all. That's why attackers hate us and users love us.

Speaker 35 Learn more at duo.com. Cisco Duo, fishing season is over.

Speaker 54 We know no one's journey is the same. That's why Delta Sky Miles moves with you.

Speaker 54 From earning miles on reloads for coffee runs, runs, shopping, and things you do every day to connecting you to new experiences.

Speaker 54 A Sky Miles membership fits into your lifestyle, letting you do more of what makes you you. It's more than travel.
It's the membership that flies, dines, streams, rides, and arrives with you.

Speaker 54 Because when you have a membership that's as unique as you are, there's no telling where your journey will take you next. Learn more at delta.com slash skymiles.

Speaker 52 This is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart podcast. Hi, darlings.
I have a little seasonal secret to share. It's the new Kahlua Duncan Caramel Swirl.

Speaker 52 Kahlua, the beloved coffee liqueur, and Duncan, the beloved coffee destination, paired up to create a treat that is perfect for the holidays. So, go ahead, treat yourself.
Cheers, my dears.

Speaker 55 Must be 21 or older to purchase. Drink responsibly.
Kahlua Caramel Swirl Cream Liqueur, 16% Alcohol by Volume, 32 Proof. Copyright twenty five imported by the Kahlua Company, New York, New York.

Speaker 55 Duncan trademarks owned by D DIP Holder LLC. Used under license.
Copyright two thousand twenty five D DIP Holder LLC.