Adam Kinzinger: It's Starting to Happen

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Speaker 3 Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.
Congratulations to our friends in Canada for their overtime hockey victory against the U.S.

Speaker 3 in the Four Nations face-off last night. And I'm pumped to be here today with a great American patriot, one of our faves, formerly a Republican congressman from Illinois.
He served in the Air Force.

Speaker 3 He's a founder of Country First. He writes a Substack newsletter, and I guess he does Substack videos now.
Substack multi-platform content producer. It's Adam Kinzinger.
How are you doing, bro?

Speaker 4 Good, buddy. You know, and it's weird because

Speaker 4 I've never rooted against America. But last night, I mean, I'll be honest, there was part of me that's like,

Speaker 4 it'd be nice to see Trump have to eat his words a little bit.

Speaker 3 Yeah, the guy in the MAGA hat right behind the bench that kept showing was impacting my rooting interests. I'm not going to say who I was rooting for, Canada.
But, you know,

Speaker 3 it definitely was nice for the Canadians.

Speaker 4 And no offense to our friends up north, but I don't give a rat's backside about hockey. So it's not like, like, if this was American football and we were against Canadian, I mean,

Speaker 4 but, you know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, me neither. They didn't change the Canadian national anthem to take a dig at Trump about how this is their country, which I liked.
So anyway, I like the digs. I like the digs.
It's good.

Speaker 3 All right. We've got much, much to discuss, too much, probably.
But you did a sub stack yesterday, an emergency sub stack. I want to start there.
The message of it was basically, let's get loud.

Speaker 3 Let's start to do something. This is a moment for a Democratic Tea Party of sorts.

Speaker 3 We can quibble over the particulars. But as somebody who was in the Tea Party wave of Congresspeople, what do you call it for?

Speaker 4 Yeah, look, I mean, and this is, I got to give you credit because you were talking about this yesterday and just like, you know, hey, we've got to do something.

Speaker 4 And then you were talking about how the Tea Party came about. And that got me thinking.
And it's like, you know, it's exactly what is happening now.

Speaker 4 And here's the key that I want to say on the outset, though, is I don't want this to be, hey, this is a left-wing movement.

Speaker 4 You know, the Tea Party came in and they were trying to pull the country right. This is actually a pro-democracy version of the Tea Party.

Speaker 4 So you're going to have people from all over the political spectrum here. But basically, what happened in the Tea Party, Republicans felt defeated.

Speaker 4 And I remember I went, you know, exploring running for Congress, talking to the Republican congressmen like in January after Obama won, and they were just beat down.

Speaker 4 They were just sad, tired, like, yeah, I guess you can run. I don't know what it's going to look like.
And it was this grassroots energy then that started showing up at town hall meetings.

Speaker 4 And then they showed, I think it started with Chuck Grassley. And it had to do with the health care bill.
They started basically, you know, yelling, protesting, whatever.

Speaker 4 Then members of Congress quit doing town halls. and that obviously looked like they were hiding, which they were.

Speaker 4 And you just had this gasoline on a fire that ended up really overtaking the House of Representatives and the Senate in 2010. I think that's what needs to happen now.

Speaker 4 Everybody is kind of waiting, including me. I mean, we're all in the same boat for like some action plan.
Here's the one, two, three step that's going to guarantee that we can stop X, Y, and Z.

Speaker 4 That's not going to happen. Like, that doesn't happen.

Speaker 4 What is going to happen is there's going to be grassroots energy that rises up, that begins to build whatever this movement is that it looks like.

Speaker 4 But that's how when you have historical things that change a country, it never comes from one person giving somebody a blueprint.

Speaker 4 It always comes from like just this outrage or this anger and this demand for change. And I think we started to see that yesterday at this Georgia town hall.
And I don't know.

Speaker 4 I just feel like we're at a moment where this is going to and can grow into something. And again, I do want to stress, don't make this a left-wing thing because it'll flame out.

Speaker 4 Trust me, they always do. Make this about pro-democracy and defending our government.
We can always debate the particulars later when we have power.

Speaker 3 Let's just talk about the Georgia thing for a second. This guy, Richard McCormick, and this is quite a red district.
You know, this is not particularly a swing district. It didn't seem like he

Speaker 3 knew what he was signing up for, unless he won 64-35 in the last election.

Speaker 3 So, again, not a a close district. And just a ton of energy, a ton of people speaking out, folks pouring out of

Speaker 3 the town hall.

Speaker 3 And I do wonder, as somebody who's been in this position, both as kind of the insurgent Tea Party candidate, but then as a congressman who's getting yelled at at town halls, like this stuff does have an impact on these guys, right?

Speaker 4 Oh, gosh, huge, huge.

Speaker 4 Listen, I mean, you know, there's always this feeling, we talk about how, you know, the voices on the far right, like the anti-Ukraine voices, they're outrepresented on Twitter, for instance, and it seems like they're everywhere.

Speaker 4 This is the same kind of dynamic where all of a sudden, you're in a red district, 75% red district.

Speaker 4 You show up to do your town hall that you've done every couple, you know, months or whatever, and now all of a sudden outrage is showing up. That is intimidating.

Speaker 4 There is not a single person out there, unless you're a psychopath that just loves that, and there are a few people like that, but there's not a real person out there that's going to stand in front of that, get yelled at, get screamed at, make national news for not having an answer like Rich McCormick didn't, and then say, you know what, we got to go do that again.

Speaker 4 Let's do that again next month, right? No, what happens is you quit doing town halls. Now people continue to be outraged more because you're hiding from them.

Speaker 4 And this is what builds over a one to two year period. And look, I've been protested at town halls.
I'm going to tell you, it sucks.

Speaker 4 I also know, and for me, it was like, why are we doing these town halls then?

Speaker 4 And when I ran in 2010, you know, with respect to the lady I beat in 2010,

Speaker 4 we had a lot of people showing up at her town halls and she quit doing them. And in fact, at one town hall, had her chief of staff answer questions.

Speaker 4 And what happens is they end up going into defense mode. They end up reacting poorly.

Speaker 4 And also, they now may end up finding the courage to stand up to Donald Trump, truly, because now they're like, gosh, I may lose my election.

Speaker 4 Maybe not in a 75% red district, but there are a lot of districts that Donald Trump over a 10-year period turned that are actually gettable here.

Speaker 3 So here's my thing. I do think that we can just noodle over it here live together because I do think there needs to be a rallying cry for the protest.
Like I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 3 I agree that it shouldn't be ideological. It shouldn't be particularly lefty populist per se, though if they're lefty populist candidates, I'm open to hearing from their arguments.

Speaker 3 But like the rallying cry for the protest in the Tea Party originally, as I mentioned yesterday, was this CNBC rant by Rick Santelli, right, about how people are getting screwed.

Speaker 3 Like I'm paying my mortgage. Why are we bailing out my neighbor? And so I do think there needs to be something, right? Like something like people are getting screwed.

Speaker 3 It can't just be like democracy writ large. And I don't know.
I think that maybe there's something with Elon.

Speaker 3 You know, I think that is like grabbable, even unelected South African billionaire that's like randomly firing veterans. Like maybe there's, there's something there.

Speaker 3 That is the part that I think there's going to need to be something tangible.

Speaker 3 And I do think the last night was a good start, but I was wondering if you have any thoughts on like what some of those topics could be.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I fully actually agree with you. So I think when I, I guess maybe I misstated it.
When I said not ideological, ideological, I mean don't turn this into a defund the police movement.

Speaker 4 Don't turn this into, you know, we need to triple the amount of genders we recognize, you know, something like that, right? Because the Tea Party movement started out with the Rick Santelli screed.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And, you know, at one point, and this is maybe after the election, it ended up with, you promised me you'll never raise the debt limit.

Speaker 4 You promise me you'll always eternally vote to defund Obamacare. I do think you're right about there's got to be a rallying cry.
And honestly, I agree with you.

Speaker 4 I actually think it's Elon Musk, and I think it's the billionaire oppression.

Speaker 4 The fact that I think you said this yesterday, the richest guy and the most powerful guy are best friends and now in control of government, and they're out there trying to determine what the government looks like that we live under.

Speaker 4 Not Congress, not the people that we elect to go figure this out for us.

Speaker 4 I mean, look, if Congress wanted to, you know, shut down every agency, honestly, I'd oppose it, but fine, that's what Congress's job is.

Speaker 4 And so, I think when you tell the American people, look, the founding fathers never intended for Elon Musk to have more power than you. Yes, they intended for Donald Trump to have more power than you.

Speaker 4 There's nothing we could do about that. But Elon Musk, no.
Jeff Bezos, no. They never intended that.
So what are we going to do? We're going to stop it.

Speaker 4 We're going to rise up and say we're not going to be controlled by billionaires. I do think that is a brilliant rallying cry.
And it's, and it's frankly, it's not just the anti-Trump stuff, right?

Speaker 4 Which kind of ran its course, still has some legs. But this is real.
This is like Americans don't feel good about this.

Speaker 3 One particular example, and I don't know that Scott Curtis himself is going to be

Speaker 3 the person people's picture they put on flags. I doubt that he wants it, but I appreciate that he was willing to talk to us yesterday.
He did an interview with Sam Stein.

Speaker 3 If you people want to listen to that, that's in our Blorg Takes podcast feed. But Scott was a retired Navy captain, 32 years in the Navy.
He came back, went into FEMA.

Speaker 3 He is the Section 7, which was kind of the Midwest chief of staff.

Speaker 3 But 55 years old, got that fork in the road email from Elon Musk, figured, okay, this might be a good time to retire from public service, look for a job in the private sector.

Speaker 3 I don't, he doesn't have a lead or whatever, but I'll take it. We've got eight months.
I'll figure it out. Accepts the offer to resign.

Speaker 3 13 days later, gets canned, okay, because he's one of these probationary employees. And this is just one example, right?

Speaker 3 But it's like this guy served the country 32 years in the Navy, in war zones, real, real service to this country. And he was made an offer, a good faith offer by the government.

Speaker 3 And they just fucking pulled the plug on him like it's like some evil

Speaker 3 movie CEO. You know,

Speaker 3 I mean, the joke is like the George Jetson, like Mr. Spacely.
You know, that's just like somebody that's just like a dick. It's like, I made you a deal.

Speaker 3 I have billions of dollars, billions and billions and billions of dollars. I'm a South African immigrant.
You serve the country. I'm going to fuck you over.
And I don't know.

Speaker 3 I just think that like that is going to, like, those kinds of stories I do think are going to build up and resonate with people. And Elon is a very easy bad cop in a story like that.

Speaker 4 I agree. I agree.
Look, I think when all this is said and done and Doge, fake agency Doge actually ends up saving, they're going to say a gajillion dollars.

Speaker 4 Let's say it's 10 billion, 20 billion, even 30 billion, which it's not going to be real money on that, but let's say it is. Elon Musk makes that in a day, by the way.

Speaker 4 So he takes what he makes in a day. Could have just written a check to the government, by the way, and been a hero.
Won't do that. But instead, he does.

Speaker 4 They get rid of these people that, and it's not even just the veterans, Tim. It's the next generation of government employees, right?

Speaker 4 The Gen Zers or the millennials that we need in those positions that in 15 years we need to be the experts in social security. We need them to be the experts in logistics and FEMA.

Speaker 4 We need them to be the experts in those things. That generation, because those are the probationary folks, are going to get wiped out.

Speaker 4 I have a former staffer that works at DOD doing very important stuff that thinks he's going to get canned actually this week because he's a probationary person because he just started there a year ago, even though he has plenty of experience in other areas.

Speaker 4 So they're going to do that. The other thing about this with the veterans thing I want to bring up is: look,

Speaker 4 they don't care about veterans. And I'm not saying that as a cudgel.

Speaker 4 I'm not saying that as like, you know, you run a campaign every year and say your opponent doesn't care about veterans and they really do. Look, all you have to do is look at Twitter.

Speaker 4 Let's take that for a second. And anybody who served in the military, the number of kind of MAGA folks under there that degenerate their service, that call them, you know, not manly or whatever.

Speaker 4 No love for Dan Crenshaw here, but every time he posts something, there's all the people that call him I Patch McCain and make fun of his eye. Like that is what we're dealing with.

Speaker 4 And also, look, there was just a talk, a discussion a month ago that they need to start cutting, and I'm a recipient of this now, cutting VA disability from veterans because there's just too many veterans with VA.

Speaker 4 disability, despite the fact that we passed the PACT Act, which is the burn pit thing.

Speaker 4 And these veterans that are getting on disability, including myself, are recipients of the burn pits because they were exposed to terrible things that did bad things to them.

Speaker 4 And we decided as a country, we need to take care of them. But they don't care.
And that's a big concern.

Speaker 3 And just one more thing on this front. Again, this is just a fact.
This is not like a political talking point. VA crisis line employees, among those fired amid the federal workforce purge.

Speaker 3 This is from the military.com. You know, I mean, some of these guys, some of these guys have talked about this, right?

Speaker 3 Like the mental health issues coming out of service and Iraq and Afghanistan and like what we owe to these folks.

Speaker 3 Like, is it really, you know, that critical for our $30 plus trillion dollar budget debt, which I know you and I both agree needs to be resolved in some way?

Speaker 3 Is the veteran VA crisis hotline employees? Are they the reasons that we are running a deficit? Like, I don't think so. I think that that's something we could prioritize.

Speaker 4 Yeah, of course not. And it's insane.
And plus, as a guy that knows plenty of veterans that go through some mental health crises, look, what happens is you always hit a low moment.

Speaker 4 Maybe you're drinking, right? And you're sitting there and all of a sudden you're looking at your pistol or whatever it is. And then you need somebody to reach out to.

Speaker 4 Maybe you have friends left in the military you can reach out to, hopefully. Maybe you don't.
Maybe you're a Vietnam veteran.

Speaker 4 Maybe you're an early Afghanistan veteran that's dealing with the fact that we left Afghanistan in shambles.

Speaker 4 And you have that crisis at night, just calling and talking to somebody, somebody that says, listen, I care. That is the difference between life and death for a lot of people.

Speaker 4 And it is cold, it is cynical, and it is disgusting that that be the thing you target simply because Elon wants to be able to tweet, you know, lol, I cut X amount of money.

Speaker 3 Elon is a veteran of the Doge Wars, of the online, of the Meme Wars. He's a veteran of the Meme Wars.
You saw it with his big fat belly on stage at CPAC yesterday.

Speaker 3 Anyway, one other thing people can do before we start, I have more Elon rants coming and rants about several of the people we've mentioned already.

Speaker 3 But before we get into all these guys bad, one other thing I think people can do, and I want to have, then sometime in the next couple of weeks, my friend Amanda Lippmann on, she runs a group called Run for Something that like encourages people to run for office.

Speaker 3 And I know that this is something that you and I are aligned on, but I haven't actually explicitly said it on the podcast, I don't think. We'll see how everything goes.

Speaker 3 But I think that 2026 will be the best time.

Speaker 3 in the foreseeable future for somebody to run as a Democrat who maybe doesn't have full, like all the traditional Democratic views, to your point.

Speaker 3 Somebody who has some heterodox views, somebody who has an interesting background, somebody who's a little different. You saw this in 2010 with Republicans like you running.

Speaker 3 We saw this in, God, I got to go back to the year. What was it? The Mark Foley year, 2006, where a bunch of weird Democrats, like people that never would have won, like one.

Speaker 3 You get these wave years where people are pissed and there is a backlash. And I think this is going to be one of those years and people always are asking me, what can you do? What can you do?

Speaker 3 And obviously not everybody's going to run for office, but I don't know.

Speaker 3 I just wanted to use this as an opportunity to like encourage people who are thinking about it because this guy, Scott Curtis, that I mentioned, this retired Navy captain who just got fired, he just kind of said that as an aside in his conversation with Sam on YouTube, where he was like, I don't know, maybe I'll run.

Speaker 3 And I just want to encourage people that are out there that have a kind of background like his, that are thinking, maybe I'll run, that this is the time to do it. So you did it in 2010.

Speaker 3 I'm wondering what you think about that.

Speaker 4 Yeah, look, you're exactly right. And I just did the quick math.
I'm like, every massive wave election is about 12 to 15 years apart.

Speaker 4 And if you think about the last one, 2010, I mean, we're there now. It's weird.

Speaker 4 So, yeah, I mean, it's 100% true. So I decided to run in 2010 against a Democratic incumbent that had won by 25%.

Speaker 4 And when I decided to run, people were like, hey, you know, we'll back you. And that goes to show how much times have changed.
I was the establishment guy and I got 75% in a five-way primary.

Speaker 4 You know, they're like, we'll back you, but man, this is tough. You know, your opponent, her name's Debbie Halverson.

Speaker 4 She's freshman you know younger lady and i ended up beating her by it was the largest swing actually an incumbent had won to what they lost by the next election without a scandal i think in the country in like 50 years so but the point is i knew i could win but nobody else did and and there were people look i had a friend in my class that was an airline pilot that just decided to run because he had a little extra time.

Speaker 4 Billy Long was an auctioneer. I mean, all these people came from all, you know, ends of life.

Speaker 4 Sean Duffy came in that class and basically said and ran against and beat the chairman of Transportation and Infrastructure, by the way.

Speaker 4 Everybody decided to run because they were pissed off and there were a lot of surprise victories.

Speaker 4 In fact, almost every race, if not every race, that was on the radar, so to speak, where they're like, yeah, we're kind of watching it, went Republican. This is that moment.

Speaker 4 Now, look, maybe it's not as big as 2010, but I would put probably all of my money on the fact that it is going to be a Democratic year. So if you have any interest in running, running, run.

Speaker 4 Look, make sure it's good with your family. I want to say this as a new dad and kind of a fairly newly married guy.
Make sure you run it by your family.

Speaker 4 That's essential because this is a draining process. It's hard.
Don't be afraid of losing. Now, it doesn't mean a suicide mission here, but don't be afraid of losing.

Speaker 4 If you ran and you lose, trust me, you're at least not going to have any regrets later on in life.

Speaker 3 All right. Well, I did you have solid, and I didn't start Googling the Houston congressional districts or, you know, look at John Cornyn.

Speaker 3 But I am just saying, while we're talking about people running for something, there might be somebody who might want to think about it.

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Speaker 3 Let's talk about the new director of the FBI, Cash Patel.

Speaker 3 Dude, listen,

Speaker 3 I don't even have a fucking question. What do you want to say?

Speaker 4 Listen, I watching people like Todd Young, like Bill Cassidy, Dave McCormick, McConnell, McCormick. Like, I look at this and I'm like, you know, I don't understand.

Speaker 4 If I would have said, of all the bad people, if I would have said, man, I can take one bad vote, who's it going to be one tough vote, who's going to be, it would have been Cash Patel because that has ramifications beyond this, you know, this presidential election or this presidential cycle.

Speaker 4 All I can say is this, is every one of those senators, and I have a special place for Bill Cassidy because he voted to remove Trump.

Speaker 4 And I thought that was courageous until I remembered, oh yeah, that was a non-election year.

Speaker 4 Now that he's in an election year, he's doing whatever he needs to do, which by the way, has no courage because every congressman that voted to impeach this last time that was Republican, the 10 of us, we were always in an election year.

Speaker 4 Every House member is in an election year. So don't you dare look and say the Senate is braver than the House because every time they're in an election year, they're, they're as bad as the house.

Speaker 4 And Cassidy, Cassidy gets a special place in, in my contempt because I trusted him, honestly.

Speaker 3 It's Dave McCormick for me. I ranted about this yesterday, but

Speaker 3 I'm still boiling. He's not up for six years.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, come on.

Speaker 3 All of these guys, like Dave McCormick was like the safe example for all the people that we know. Everybody in the donor class.

Speaker 3 I mean, like I said this yesterday, even W himself, like did an event for him, like doesn't do politics.

Speaker 3 Like the big bank type, like all of the moderate or traditional Republicans or kind of non-political centrist type people, like, Dave McCormick was like, oh, well, this guy ran an international hedge fund.

Speaker 3 And, you know, he's a veteran. And, like, you can trust him.
He's not. Like, what is the fucking difference between Dave McCormick and the fucking porn pizza man from North Carolina in the Senate?

Speaker 3 Nothing. If a governor's race, you can talk to me, but in the Senate, nothing.
Like, you might as well have Mark Robinson tweeting about how MLK is terrible while he looks at weird porn in the Senate.

Speaker 3 And because he's going to vote the same way as Dave McCormick.

Speaker 3 We've got Chuck Grassley. Here's what he tweeted yesterday.
Congrats, Cash Patel. And I have to just explain this.
He spells his name KA Money Sign H.

Speaker 3 KA Money Sign H. Congrats, Cash Patel on UR confirmation as FBI director.
It's a good thing change is coming. One thing that won't change is my oversight.

Speaker 3 I'll be keeping a close watch to ensure transparency.

Speaker 4 Yeah, the hell you will. Stop it.
Oh, stop it, Chuck. Charles.

Speaker 4 Charles Grassly. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Listen, a 99-year-old American is on the is like keeping a close eye on you, Cash. Like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 Hey, KA, KA money sign H, be careful. Chuck's coming to the headquarters today.
Like, what do you do? Just like throw a sandwich out there and he's a nap by 10 o'clock and you're good to go.

Speaker 4 Listen, and the funny thing about Chuck Grassley is when I talked about the Tea Party in 2010 and I mentioned him, he's the dude that what happened is he was going to vote for this Obamacare bill or he was negotiating it.

Speaker 4 And the Tea Party protested his like town hall, and he immediately after that said he's exiting negotiations.

Speaker 4 And that's when what was going to be a bipartisan health care bill fell apart and Democrats made the decision, we're just going to run this through on partisan votes. But he's the one.

Speaker 4 So, look, if there's anybody to exert pressure on, I mean, he probably thinks he's going to be in the Senate until he's 138.

Speaker 3 So, maybe, maybe now.

Speaker 3 I don't think now. I don't think there's going to be any pressure.
Yeah, no, the cash thing is, and I don't know how much more there is to say about it just because it's so disheartening.

Speaker 3 But, you know, it'll be interesting to see what the next shoe drop says. I've had a lot of outreach from former FBI people, even current.

Speaker 3 And, you know, like the most of these agents are Trumpy, are MAGA. Yeah.
And the fact that they are planning now to shutter the domestic terrorism department, right?

Speaker 3 Because you can't go after white, bad white people. I just think that the ramifications

Speaker 3 are going to be really, really serious. And we don't exactly know what yet, but it is a category difference from some of this other stuff.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it feels like when you own a house and you just decide to delay maintenance on it, right? Like, you know, you don't need to paint the walls. You don't need to replace the roof.

Speaker 4 And, you know, for a couple of years, you don't. And then all of a sudden everything falls apart.
And it kind of feels feels like maybe that's going to be what happens. But it's, it's not good.

Speaker 4 And it's politicizing the FBI, really politicizing it, not like fake politicizing it, like Trump says.

Speaker 3 All right, let's talk a little bit about Ukraine. Boy, that's kind of like my cash question.

Speaker 3 The president and the vice president are basically, and the Secretary of State, I guess, are all on the side of Russia now. We're having a negotiation.

Speaker 3 It's unclear what we're getting out of the negotiation. It's unclear what Russia is being asked to give out of the negotiation.
The current negotiation is that Russia will get everything.

Speaker 3 They'll get economic opportunity with us in Europe, and they'll get the land that they have, and they'll get Ukraine napping in NATO, and maybe Ukraine will get some security guarantees that nobody actually believes that the Trump fans administration would follow through on.

Speaker 3 Is that a summary of the state of play here for you? It is. It is.
It is.

Speaker 4 I think we're all in disbelief because I guess we're not surprised. We're not shocked by this, but

Speaker 4 the pace at which Trump pivoted is shocking. And the fact that, by the way, there are all of his advisors walking around saying, I mean, Walt said this, you got to quit being mean to him.

Speaker 4 Hey, Zelensky, you're being mean to him. What do you expect? What is this? This is a toddler.

Speaker 4 I mean, honest to God, I've got a three-year-old and I'm careful at what I say around him because I don't want him to go off. But I recognize that he's a not developed toddler.

Speaker 4 And that's exactly what they're saying. So this guy, President Trump, is so advanced in 5D chess and all that that you have to be careful that you say some mean words to him?

Speaker 4 You had said this yesterday. It's like, and whoever came out and said, well, he likes people Crenshaw, he likes people.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, no, we got the audio. We got the audio.
I said this yesterday and we had so many comments about it. People couldn't believe that it was actually true.

Speaker 3 So to be fair to Dan Crenshaw, let's listen to him explain Trump's behavior. Let's listen.

Speaker 3 Trump has responded by calling Zelensky a dictator without elections and says he better move fast or he's not going to have a country left, saying he's very unpopular, his country is in ruins, etc.

Speaker 6 Trump tends to talk that way to his friends. Yeah.
He tends to talk nicer to his enemies. So if he's talking to you that way, it still means you're his friend.

Speaker 6 Just don't get into it with Donald Trump. Don't get into it.
What's the point? What's the point? We've been backing you this whole time. We will continue to back you.
But

Speaker 6 there must be a paradigm shift. And that's what President Trump brings to the table here is a paradigm shift.
That's what they're attempting to do.

Speaker 3 You expect us to believe that shit? I mean, like what? Adam, I guess you, Adam, and Trump must be best pals. Brian, Adam Kinzinger.
When are you going to get your invite down to Mar-a-Lago?

Speaker 3 You guys are just buddies. Maybe you can go golfing together because he's mean to his friends.
So he must love you.

Speaker 4 Look, I've been trying to unfriend this guy for years, and he just keeps, he keeps tweeting at me like I'm his body. I can't, I don't get it.

Speaker 4 I mean, look, this is, in a way, I feel sorry for Dan only because I know he knows better. And he's like sitting there going, gosh, how do I, but I don't feel bad because he could just say the truth.

Speaker 4 He's like Mike Waltz, right? They know better. Like, what is this job worth?

Speaker 4 I mean, I don't know if you saw the clip where Dan was DJing at the, at like whatever the inauguration thing is and drinking a beer and being all cool. I guess that's it.

Speaker 4 You have screaming throngs of 19-year-old freaking, you know, Charlie Kirk dypes, I guess, and maybe that's worth it.

Speaker 3 He could be a DJ, though. I think

Speaker 3 he could be a DJ without having to apologize for Donald Trump and be made into an ass clown multiple times on the Piers Morgan show. He could just DJ.

Speaker 4 He could be like Tiesto, man. Just go do that.
Go do those big events. And the pretzels these folks twist themselves into.

Speaker 4 It's like we are doing everything we can to not admit that Trump just likes Russia and he doesn't like Ukraine. And why is that? I mean, there's any number of theories out there, but it's just a fact.

Speaker 4 We know this. And so, you know, Marco Rubio and Waldz can say you need to quit being a meanie to him and all this stuff.
But the reality is he just loves Russia.

Speaker 4 Now, let me make one other quick point. The United States, the casualty numbers are around 400,000 people.
We lost or injured, I think, during World War II.

Speaker 4 That number may be a little low, but Russia is approaching twice the number of casualties of the United States in World War II. And think about what we did in World War II.

Speaker 4 We island hopped all the way to Japan. We liberated Germany.

Speaker 4 We liberated an entire continent, you know, and Russia's lost twice as many as we have and gained a fraction of just the territory of Ukraine.

Speaker 4 I mean, if you extrapolate how much Russia has gained in the last two years to saying how long will it take them to take the the rest of Ukraine?

Speaker 4 It's the cost of 10 million or 20 million men and it is 100 years from now at that rate that they will actually take Ukraine. Ukraine is winning.

Speaker 4 Like look for a defending country all you have to do is keep defending yourself. That's it.

Speaker 3 I'm sorry the vice president put out yesterday as more effort for his tough negotiations that it's actually Russia that's crushing them on the battlefield.

Speaker 4 It's nonsensical. I mean anybody that went to third grade history understands it's nonsensical.

Speaker 4 Look if you're a country getting attacked yeah, you have to defend yourself and you're probably going to lose some territory defending yourself.

Speaker 4 The hope is to create enough pressure and attrition on the attacking country that eventually they fall apart. That's exactly what's happening.

Speaker 4 That is military history 101 that every freshman in ROTC learns. And these guys don't understand it, don't care to.
And honestly, they believe.

Speaker 4 I've started listening to 1984 again on Audible.

Speaker 4 And you just sit here and you're like, this is exactly what this is.

Speaker 4 Don't believe your own eyes. Believe what I tell you.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Ukraine did the invasion. It is just another big lie.

Speaker 3 I want to go back to this Crenshaw thing just about how beta it is, really quick, just because I want to take it out of the context of Trump and the president and put it into a real-life context.

Speaker 3 There's no way that Dan would act like this in any other situation. Like if you go back to ROTC and

Speaker 3 there's some bully that is also, you know, serving with him, and he's walking around and he's going crying, Dan Crenshaw just wears panties because he's a crybaby boy and like starts like calling

Speaker 3 like ugly face Joe over here and like sleepy Todd and like like calling everybody nicknames in that moment would Dan be like you know the right thing to do here the grown-up thing to do here is just to let him call you names let him call you names and then

Speaker 3 and you because he really likes you and you just take it you just take it you just let him call you panty dan and like you just say okay sir yes sir like you would be the biggest beta bitch in the world if you did this in any other context.

Speaker 3 Like, why is this? Like, the tough guys say, like, only in the context of Trump must we just like bend over and let him call you names. Like, like, what?

Speaker 3 Like, Zelensky is the person that is showing traditional alpha masculine virtues. He's the one that didn't leave when his country was attacked, that stood up to the bully.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, I think I put this on Twitter on one of the tweets.

Speaker 4 I probably shouldn't have done, of course, but I just remember writing to somebody like, you're hurting my effort to recruit you to run with all these tweets out.

Speaker 3 I know, I know.

Speaker 4 Well, look, evidently you have to have Twitter and Speak Real now anyway.

Speaker 3 That's a good point. But like,

Speaker 4 I said something about like how, how freaking, you know, beta it is to follow a man and literally be sitting around going, everything Trump says is right.

Speaker 4 And this is a guy that is fat, that golfs all the time, that literally is the biggest whiner. He's never done manual labor in his life.

Speaker 4 This is exactly the kind of person that folks would be like,

Speaker 4 he's the opposite of a man. The only thing he does is he yells, he's petulant, and he tweets in all caps.
If that's manly, great, cool.

Speaker 4 But what this reminds me of is like those cartoons where it's the little mouse, and he's got like a big elephant as a sidekick, and the little mouse is the bully, and the big elephant's like, What do you want, sir?

Speaker 4 Right? That's the whole GOP male establishment that could be like, they could swag, you know, Donald Trump down and be like, Listen, man, you're nothing but a whiny little bitch. But they don't.

Speaker 4 They sit there and they follow him because he's scary.

Speaker 4 Because he can bring people to tweet against me, and I might lose my job.

Speaker 3 Zelensky should just act like me. Zelensky should just lick Trump's balls like I do.
That's how he'd be a real man.

Speaker 4 Could you imagine? And that's where I'm like with Ukraine. And I hope Europe, by the way, Europe has got to step up in this moment.

Speaker 4 The only bad thing about that is, you know, the MAGAs will say this was Donald Trump's plan all along. He really wanted Ukraine to win.
He just wanted Europe to step up. Don't fall for that.

Speaker 4 It's not true. He wants Ukraine to lose, by the way.
But hopefully this is a moment where Europe can step up and be like, you know what, America, we'd love to have you. You're very important.

Speaker 4 We don't need you. Reinmittal, NAMO, all of our other European defense agencies, they're going to make enough stuff for Ukraine.
And we'll stop the Russians.

Speaker 4 And you can basically take your tariffs and leave Europe.

Speaker 3 Let's gain this out for a second, that outcome, because that seems decently likely at this point. It puts us in a big bind.
If Marco, if...

Speaker 3 if our possibly Cuban agent, I don't know, possibly Communist Cuban agent, I'm just throwing it out there. It might be a possible, but we don't know.

Speaker 3 If he cuts a deal with his Russian counterparty and, you know, whatever the contours of that, something like what I laid out at the beginning, and Zelensky says no, and there are enough European countries that say, no, we'll keep backing you.

Speaker 3 Where does that put us in that situation? Like, what do you do? You know, it's going to leave them in a very tough

Speaker 3 situation to game out. Like, are you then on...
actually on the side of Russia? We just like check out and say good luck, you know,

Speaker 3 impact on relationships with Europe.

Speaker 3 I mean, I don't know that that whole possibility has really been thought through. I think that there's this kind of like notion that whatever Mr.
Trump and Mr. Putin want is going to happen.

Speaker 4 Yeah, there has been that notion. And honestly, that notion exists in Europe, too.
I mean, Europe,

Speaker 4 they have been paralyzed for 80 years.

Speaker 4 This has actually worked to our advantage, right? Like, because we can write the rules of the road. We get to basically determine what's important for defense.

Speaker 4 But regardless, Europe has basically kind of gotten paralyzed and relied on the the United States.

Speaker 4 And so what happens if they finally do kind of find their cojones and decide that we're going to support Ukraine, first off, it'd be great for the European defense establishment because that's atrophied so much.

Speaker 4 Secondly, it will take a while for it to continue to spin up, but they're leaning forward right now. And Denmark especially has made it very clear, like, we're going to buy the best weapons.

Speaker 4 If they're not available, we're buying the second best weapons. The key here is speed.
That's what they've said. What does that mean for the United States?

Speaker 4 Look, there are rumors right now that are pretty strong. They're not just internet rumors.
That Trump plans to announce a withdrawal of all American troops from Europe within the next month.

Speaker 4 Now, maybe it doesn't happen, but I honestly won't be surprised if it does.

Speaker 4 So if Europe steps up and says, fine, we'll do this with Ukraine, I could see Donald Trump pouting, taking his ball, going home, and saying, good, obviously, you've got Europe all yourself.

Speaker 4 The point is, though, like, yes, he has the power to do it. Not much we can do to stop it, except I think that is going to be seen as a bigger betrayal than Afghanistan.

Speaker 4 And Joe Biden, which, by the way, who was just executing, honestly, Donald Trump's brilliant negotiation in Afghanistan. Biden went underwater on his numbers after Afghanistan and never recovered.

Speaker 4 Donald Trump could do the same. But, you know, for those looking saying, well, what's the quick answer to that? I'm sorry.
There just isn't.

Speaker 4 We have a system set up where you can really have a voice in two years, and we're just going to have to wait that out.

Speaker 3 On your 1984 thing, I do think we should mention the Free Speech Party here, our free speech president and shadow president.

Speaker 3 That was their animating issue was that everyone should have the right to make racist jokes if they want and not be shadow banned by the social media companies.

Speaker 3 A couple of interesting wrinkles, though, about the free speech White House. The first was I interviewed Robert Garcia last night, Congressman from Long Beach.

Speaker 3 He was on CNN, and he said basically Elon is a dick, and the Democrats need to bring weapons to the bar fight. Kind of just like I think I kind of mangled the phrase of, you know,

Speaker 3 we shouldn't be bringing a knife to a gunfight, et cetera, like that very common figure of speech. He receives a letter from Eagle Ed Martin, the U.S.

Speaker 3 attorney, a letter of inquiry saying that he wants to look into whether this was an illegal physical threat on Elon Musk's life. Obviously, it is ridiculous.

Speaker 3 Like Dan Goldman, other congressmen wrote, there's no such thing as a letter of inquiry. You're literally making things up to use your letterhead to chill free speech.

Speaker 3 Why don't you stop weaponizing the DOJ against Democrats while you still have your bar license?

Speaker 3 But like, this is, Robert Garcia is not being quiet, but this is, they are trying to intimidate people into stopping criticizing Elon and Trump and cash.

Speaker 3 Like, but they want regular people to feel like they might have to get a lawyer if they do it. And it's scary.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And it's intimidating. I mean, it is, right? You get something from the U.S.
attorney and you're like, gosh, I just, I went on CNN. They don't pay me.
Or if they pay me, they don't pay me a ton.

Speaker 4 It's just not worth it. That's exactly what they're doing.
Here's what I, and I would suggest this to anybody that gets a letter like this, including if I get one.

Speaker 4 Take a photocopy of your butt, right? Sign it and send it back with that letter. Because honestly, there's nothing he can do.

Speaker 4 And what we have to do, and I mean this seriously, is make a mockery of the system they're making a mockery of. I've always said to, call me back to the January 6th committee.
Let's talk about that.

Speaker 4 And honestly, I hope you put my testimony on television because it's going to be good. It's going to be really good.

Speaker 4 Including, let's go through some of the tweets of some of the people on the committee and stuff like that. And, you know, hey, let me go through this Bible verse there, Christian.

Speaker 4 How do you, how does this compose with what you're doing? So I think what's what we have to do, like take, you know, legal stuff seriously, obviously.

Speaker 4 But when it comes to where they're making a mockery of it, if you can afford to, and by the way, you know, make a mockery back. That's the, that's the way we're going to win this thing.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, obviously it takes, and people have other considerations in their life, but I like your butt idea because I think the right answer here is don't behave.
Don't behave. Say, arrest me.

Speaker 3 Arrest us. Arrest me.
Like, okay. So I used a figure of speech on CNN.
Arrest me. Let's see it.
Go to a grand jury. Because this is like where their whole strategy breaks down.
Yep.

Speaker 3 Because they believe, they convinced themselves with their own BS that Donald Trump was targeted by the deep state and that it was unfair. Like all of the indictments, the U.S.

Speaker 3 government got evidence, went to a grand jury. The grand jury had to approve the indictment.
They had to move forward. It's like, go ahead,

Speaker 3 take this to a grand jury. Take my CNN clip to a grand jury.
Good luck. Call me back when you have it.

Speaker 3 Arrest me.

Speaker 3 And I think that you'll find that a lot of this stuff will crumble. And I think there might still be some scary stuff coming behind it from Cash Patel, but this sort of stuff.

Speaker 4 And look, and by the way, if they arrest you on spurious charges like this,

Speaker 4 you'll be famous in the country. Monetize that so you'll make money from it.
Then you can run for whatever you want to run for because now you're the famous resistor.

Speaker 4 So look at the bright side of things. Yeah.

Speaker 3 There you go. All right, Adam.
Adam's ready to get arrested. I can tell.

Speaker 3 He's itching.

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Speaker 3 The other free speech item I think I'd be remiss to not mention on the podcast. I'm sorry, I love Grimes' music.
It's not for everybody. She decided she wanted to kiss with Elon Musk.

Speaker 3 I think that was a very bad decision in her personal life, but

Speaker 3 I do think that she's a great artist. Love.
I saw her Coachella a couple years ago. Her video about how she only eats spaghetti is one of the most inspired things on the entire internet.

Speaker 3 If you're looking for a laugh this weekend. So anyway, she has a child with Elon Musk.
She was tweeting yesterday, basically, Elon, please return my calls. Our child is sick.
She goes on.

Speaker 3 I'm not giving any details, but he won't respond to texts or calls or emails. He skipped every meeting and our child will suffer lifelong impairment if he doesn't respond to ASAP.

Speaker 3 So I need him to fucking respond. And if I have to apply public pressure, then I guess that's where we're at.
She sent that on X. Then Elon shadow bans it.

Speaker 3 And usually I kind of like roll my eyes at this idea of shadow banning, but I went to see it. I went to look at the, you know, because I saw a screenshot of it.
I went to find it. I couldn't find it.

Speaker 3 Same. And then you had to go into the replies and you could find it.

Speaker 3 And then somebody tweeted at her with a screenshot of the shadow ban saying, did you delete this? And she replied, LOL, no. No.

Speaker 3 So Elon is like blocking his ex, his baby mama's tweet about how he is a deadbeat dad. That's where, that's where the free speech party is right now.

Speaker 4 I mean, look, we've got to get past this. When they talk about free speech, all they mean is oppression of speech that's not theirs.
That's literally all they mean. And

Speaker 4 remember when they wanted to repeal section, is it 230 or whatever?

Speaker 4 Because, you know, and now all of a sudden they're all for that because they own the

Speaker 4 platforms now. And look, this is this is sad.
And can we get past calling Elon just such a good guy because he wants to repopulate the world?

Speaker 4 And he's a family man and he carries X on his shoulders, who, by the way, tells the president of the United States that he's not the real president because he definitely heard that from somebody in his life who's in his life that would like to tell him that he's the real president.

Speaker 4 I don't know, Elon Musk. And so, can we get past this idea that it's cute that he carries him on his shoulders? Look, I hope he's a great dad to X.
I do.

Speaker 4 But he has obviously, you know, through IVF, which is weird, you know, gotten another girl pregnant and then ignored her. And then now with Grimes, and the guy's got a gajillion and a half dollars.

Speaker 4 Like, you could write a billion-dollar check to baby mama and

Speaker 4 probably never have to see them again. And it wouldn't even dit your, so there's something else going on.
And it's just narcissistic psychotic is what you have in Elon Musk.

Speaker 4 And for whatever reason, he just doesn't care about anybody but himself.

Speaker 3 I understand people have issues and family problems and things. Sometimes they're complicated.
But when you have two baby mamas hate tweeting you within a week

Speaker 3 and you're on stage in sunglasses slurring with

Speaker 3 a chainsaw,

Speaker 3 I don't know. It seems like maybe your priorities are a little off.

Speaker 4 And one has health problems, whatever that means.

Speaker 4 It sounds like, you know, for Grimes to tweet that, she's got to be really actually concerned for her child and not just like, I want to embarrass Elon because that's embarrassing to her too.

Speaker 3 Yep. You're right about that.
These are sick people. Okay.
It's Friday. Everybody take a deep breath.
I've got two

Speaker 3 little lan yap, a couple of two pieces of audio for everybody. One is substantive, the other one we're going to close with some fun.
It's interesting.

Speaker 3 Trump had an event yesterday for Black History Month at the White House.

Speaker 3 I actually think that's illegal, and I don't know why Eagle Ed Martin didn't send the cops in to start arresting people because there was an executive order that bans DEI events.

Speaker 3 So I don't really understand how that's legal, but I guess we'll have to turn to Ben Wittis or Andrew Weissman on a future pod to have them clear that up for me.

Speaker 3 But he acknowledged the CEO of Pfizer while he was there. And I think this is interesting for a couple of reasons.

Speaker 3 The crowd reaction, but also to what we were talking about at the top about where some real

Speaker 3 anger might get and where Trump might be getting himself into trouble by being so easily flattered by these rich guys and having these rich guys around him.

Speaker 3 He might start to find himself out of touch with the forgotten man. And here's some evidence of it.
Let's hear his acknowledgement of the Pfizer CEO yesterday.

Speaker 4 We also have the head of Pfizer here. So I want to thank him, one of the great, great people, one of the great businessmen.

Speaker 3 Thank you, Albert.

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 4 Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 That's tough getting booed at the White House event by a crowd of Maggus.

Speaker 4 Look, I think this may be the thing that kind of unites everybody a little bit bit is this. It's not going to be Elon Musk because the right loves him, but like this kind of eat the rich sort of.

Speaker 4 And, you know, we've got to walk the line on that. But let me just also say that doesn't mean kill these people, folks, like, you know, this Italian dude, you know, that's

Speaker 4 but you can boo them all you want. That's great.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and I also think maybe it shows a little bit of a disconnect on the vaccine thing and that there's going to be some interesting, interesting choices ahead for us as we have a measles outbreak in this country.

Speaker 3 So let's just say we're monitoring it.

Speaker 3 When a CEO gets booed inside the White House by MAGAs, it's something that we're going to be keeping an eye on. All right.
Here's what I want to take everybody out with.

Speaker 3 I'm assuming you haven't seen this yet because you don't suffer as much as I do on the MAGA internet. But your friend and mine,

Speaker 3 new host of the Weekend Fox Show. Actually, before we get to that, I do notice everybody wants to be a podcaster.
I appreciate that you are also now in the substack space.

Speaker 3 I saw Corey Bush and Jamal Bowman have a podcast together. Matt Gates has a podcast.
The water is warm, everybody. Welcome.
It's a competitive marketplace.

Speaker 3 You're still losing to me in the ratings so far, but I'm going to keep an eye on how you're doing, Gates and Corey, and Lara Lee Trump. She is also in the content business now.
And

Speaker 3 it's not happy.

Speaker 3 She's not satisfied, rather, just to have a weekend Fox show. Okay.
She wants to go into another industry. And she has released a song this morning with French Montana.

Speaker 3 And I'd like to play it for us.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, you're so mysterious.

Speaker 3 How much more can you take out?

Speaker 3 I'm putting in the work, work, work, work, store. Work, work, work, work, work.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Larry Lee. But if you listen closely, those who are not going to be able to do that.

Speaker 4 Let the music take control.

Speaker 3 Okay, all right. No days off.
No days off. That's enough.
Jason, please. That's enough.

Speaker 3 I'm begging you.

Speaker 3 All right. 9.30, please.
Coming to you soon. Lara Lee Trump in French Montana.
Any closing thoughts for us?

Speaker 3 Are you ready?

Speaker 4 Yeah, it just starts in, it starts in your toe. You start tapping.
Next thing you know, it's overtaking the body, and you're just like, you know, I've never done Molly, but that might be a good time.

Speaker 4 It might be, you know, to

Speaker 4 join the Elon ranks and just let it flow through.

Speaker 3 A little Molly, a little candy puppet for Sin Lara Lee Trump. Well, that's a good one.
I won't be putting the song in the show notes so people can Google it for themselves if they want to find it.

Speaker 3 Thank you, Adam Kinziger. Everybody, go subscribe to his sub stack.
He's doing great work over there. And it's starting to happen.
You can start to feel it out in the streets.

Speaker 3 And I think think that's good. So, I appreciate you coming on the pod today.

Speaker 4 You bet, buddy.

Speaker 3 All right, we'll talk to you soon. Everybody else, we'll be back Monday with Bill Crystal.
And over the weekend, actually, I'll be at Principals First in DC.

Speaker 3 If you're around, I'm interviewing Jared Polis. A bunch of your other friends will be there.
So, we'll be checking you all out, some of you in DC, the rest of you, on Monday's pod. Peace.

Speaker 3 a man,

Speaker 3 and I do what I can.

Speaker 3 I got freaking high places, I get up for free.

Speaker 3 I go to boy, but they don't know me. Cause I'm only a man.

Speaker 3 And I do what I can.

Speaker 3 B, D, A, J, B, E, Ripper. Tell me I'm a monster, looking so pressure.
B, D, A, J, B, nevermore.

Speaker 3 You gave me anger and you declared a fate of fall.

Speaker 3 Hey, follow me, hey, follow me, ain't no way.

Speaker 3 Follow me, hey, follow me, ain't go away.

Speaker 3 Follow me, hey, follow me, away.

Speaker 3 Cause I'm only young man,

Speaker 3 do what I can.

Speaker 3 Cause I'm only young,

Speaker 3 do what I can.

Speaker 3 I don't

Speaker 3 know,

Speaker 3 maybe I was wrong.

Speaker 3 Sometimes people say I'm a big time button. But I'm only a moment.

Speaker 3 And I do what I can.

Speaker 3 B-E-A-J-B-E-R-F. Cause how many animal star looking suffer shots.
B-E-A-J-B-E-N-B-Mo.

Speaker 3 Gay like being girl, and you declare a thing of party.

Speaker 3 Oh, no, we ain't, oh, no, we ain't no way,

Speaker 3 oh no, we ain't, oh no, we ain't no way, oh no, we ain't, oh no,

Speaker 3 I'm yours in the sun, and you scarce in the shower. Cause I'm only young and do what I can.

Speaker 3 I'm only young,

Speaker 3 do what I can.

Speaker 3 The Bullard Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

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