Ben Stiller: 'Severance,' but Real Life

Speaker 1 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovny, and Carise Van Houten.

Speaker 1 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 1 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal. Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 1 Why is Adam after the Tanner family? What lengths will he go to? One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 2 Ah, greetings for my bath, festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 2 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 2 I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body.
Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal. Save the offer and the app.

Speaker 2 NS1231, see PayPal.com slash promo terms points to your renewed for cash and more paying for subject to terms of approval. PayPal Inc.
and MLS 910-457.

Speaker 2 Hey, everybody, I know it was a little bleak yesterday, so I got a treat for you and for me, Ben Stiller. Wanted to come on the pod.
We've been DMing.

Speaker 2 He does a lot of work with refugees and everything that's in the news with USAID and everything. I was like, man, John, come on.

Speaker 2 We can talk about your work doing that, but then also take a little break, do some Hollywood chat. It wasn't maybe quite as light a fair as I wanted, but there are at least some laps for everybody.

Speaker 2 So I hope you enjoy it. We are taping this on Tuesday afternoon because I'm headed out to Palm Springs for a book festival for the rest of the week.

Speaker 2 And so if something happens between Tuesday night and Wednesday morning that wasn't covered here, you'll know why.

Speaker 2 But before we get to Ben, I just had a few stray thoughts on some news items I just wanted to

Speaker 2 share with everybody. The first one is kind of an action item.

Speaker 2 Tom Malinowski, former congressman from New Jersey, I think we're going to hopefully have him on the pod here in the next couple of weeks to talk about this at greater length.

Speaker 2 But he has a really, really great piece in the bulwark that was out on Tuesday morning called Five Things Dems Must Do to Fight Trump Now.

Speaker 2 Go check that out if you haven't, because it gives a real an action plan.

Speaker 2 And I know there are a lot of people that feel maybe lost, including elected Dems and some Dem strategists that I've been talking to. Tom gives some real tangible things folks can do.

Speaker 2 And reading it, it buoyed me a little bit when I was like, yeah, that's a good idea. That's a good idea.
Yeah. This is manageable.
I mean, it's bad.

Speaker 2 All the things Ann was worried about are worth worrying about.

Speaker 2 But there are some countervailing influences that the Dems can leverage, including the courts and the people that Biden put on the court recently, but also some strategies from Congress.

Speaker 2 So hopefully we can talk two time about that at greater length, but you should go read the article regardless. Two other just sort of news items I wanted to jump on.

Speaker 2 On Friday, I guess it was, I gave the plea to Bill Cassidy to do the right thing, my senator here from Louisiana, acknowledging during the plea that I wasn't exactly optimistic, but

Speaker 2 You know, I was thinking there was at least a chance, as they might say in Dumb and Dumber, a different different oughts comedy from the ones we're going to be discussing on on this podcast.

Speaker 2 I was thinking there was a chance. Well, there wasn't a chance.

Speaker 2 Bill Cassidy caved to Trump, somebody that absolutely knows better, has demonstrated that he knows better when it comes to vaccines, when it comes to public health, agreed to put RFK Jr., a complete quack, unqualified conspiracy theorist in charge of the Health and Human Services Department.

Speaker 2 He got through in committee on a party-line vote. Cassidy was the one who could have stopped it.
By the time this publishes, you know, we might have a schedule for when the actual floor vote will be.

Speaker 2 But at this point, it seems pretty clear that RFK is going to be Secretary of Health and Human Services. Similarly, maybe not 100%, but probably, you know, 95% likelihood at this point that Tul C.

Speaker 2 Gabbard is going to be the Director of National Intelligence. A total fold on this one.

Speaker 2 We talked about this a little bit with Ann on the podcast yesterday, but across the board, not just Cassidy, Langford, Susan Collins in the case of Gabbard, unbelievable.

Speaker 2 Well, believable, but you know, unbelievable in the sense of unfucking believable, Susan Collins. And who else? Todd Young, all are going to say that they're going to vote to confirm Gabbard.

Speaker 2 So there's that. One last topic.
There's been a lot of discussion, and Ann and I made some jokes about it. And a bunch of everybody's making jokes about it, which are these little 22-year-old

Speaker 2 wizards that Elon has running around running roughshod over our government you know using AI to figure out you know which government functions should be completely shut down they've had some success obviously with USAID

Speaker 2 there was a news out here late Tuesday from CBS saying that USAID missions overseas have been told to shut down all staff are being recalled to the U.S.

Speaker 2 This new U.S. AID deputy, who I've mentioned on the pod, Peter Moroko, who is an insurrectionist in the Capitol on January 6th.

Speaker 2 He told State Department leadership if they didn't come back to America, they'd be evacuated by the military.

Speaker 2 So that's pretty ominous. So we've got these little 20-somethings running around, shutting down USAID, getting into the treasury payment systems.

Speaker 2 And there's been a little bit of pushback about the snorkel targeting these young men. They are all men, I should mention.
Among the pushback, there's this video.

Speaker 2 I'm going to put it here in the show notes about this guy, Luke, who is one of these young guys. And he seems brilliant.

Speaker 2 I mean, he was using AI to uncover language, previously unread language on these ancient scrolls, deciphering these stories.

Speaker 2 The first word that they discovered in these ancient Greek scrolls that had been burned was purple. I mean, the guy seems super excited, super smart, super earnest.

Speaker 2 And I understand like the instinct to be like, wait a minute, let's not tear people down.

Speaker 2 They aren't responsible for Elon's sins. I'm sympathetic to that.

Speaker 2 I really am. I look at these videos.
I'm like, wow, this kid is amazing. This is exactly the kind of kid you'd want working in the government in a different situation.

Speaker 2 And that's like the element of this, in a different situation. Some of the other guys, I've been having people send me links to their social media feeds.

Speaker 2 They've been retweeting Nick Fuentes, who's this

Speaker 2 neo-Nazi, Nazi youth, whatever you want to call it, Grouper, Nazi adjacent, this young kind of white identity politics, the leader of this kind of young men who play white identity politics, who make a lot of racist and conspiratorial statements.

Speaker 2 Some of these other guys are retweeting their Quintus. So

Speaker 2 Luke might be great. Some of the other people Elon has doing this might be racist or trolls or not great.
I don't know. It doesn't fucking matter is the thing.
Like,

Speaker 2 we have laws. We have ways the government should work.

Speaker 2 You know, 22-year-old Wonderkins who have not had security clearance should not be

Speaker 2 implementing mass firings of career USAID servants who are out, you know, running around throughout the world, advancing American soft power, helping people, advancing freedom, helping, you know, actually make people healthy, not in the Maha sense, but in the sense of providing medicine to

Speaker 2 troubled, displaced people who need it.

Speaker 2 I mean, a lot of people out there that are doing really good work, earnest workers that shouldn't be bullied by 22-year-olds who are being sent into the government as if this is a fucking private equity firm that's stripping down a company for parts.

Speaker 2 Like, we have laws, we have regulations, there are ways to go about this.

Speaker 2 If there are programs that don't work, they have a Republican fucking Congress and Senate that could pass a piece of legislation that

Speaker 2 did whatever they wanted. Shutter USAID if you want, pass it through the House and Senate.
Use reconciliation. Get Donald Trump to sign it.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Like, that's not what this is. You know, the fact that a couple of these kids might be smart in earnest does not make their mission

Speaker 2 a noble one.

Speaker 2 It does not alibi the fact that Elon Musk is doing this in a way that is extra legal.

Speaker 2 So I just wanted to take an opportunity to weigh in on that since I didn't want to burden Ben Stiller with that.

Speaker 2 Ben Stiller is unburdened by what is happening with 22-year-olds in the Department of Treasury.

Speaker 2 Unfortunately, I'm not.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 after this, I will pass it over to Ben. We do severance.
We'll dodgeball. At the very end, he gets him to tell me who he thinks famous Ben Stiller characters voted for in the 2024 election.

Speaker 2 I find that very delightful. We do a little Nuggets and Knicks talk.
I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did. I'll be back on the con Thursday with Friend of the Pod.

Speaker 2 Look forward to seeing you all then. Up next, Ben Stiller.

Speaker 2 Hello, and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.
After going full

Speaker 2 totalitar,

Speaker 2 after going full totalitarian autocracy fears yesterday, I promised y'all a little bit of fun. So I'm delighted delighted to be here with the executive producer of the new Apple Plus show, Severance.

Speaker 2 I guess not a new show. Second season is new out now.
And the host of the Severance with Adam and Ben pod. He's on a bunch of other stuff.
You might have heard of him. It's Ben Steller.

Speaker 2 How are you doing, Ben?

Speaker 3 Hey, man. It's great to be here.
I'm such a fan.

Speaker 2 Oh, man. That's embarrassing, but thank you.
No, it's

Speaker 2 mutual, obviously.

Speaker 3 Yeah, especially, I think, even the last couple months, it's been great to have you to listen to and, you know, sort of work through reality.

Speaker 2 Well, I appreciate that because, you know, a big part of me wanted to just like get under the covers and like watch sad movies and like read, read depressing Nazi era fiction and just like check out.

Speaker 2 But like, unfortunately, I had a job to do. So honestly, it's been good for me, too, to like kind of wake up and have to do this every day, talk to people, process it.
You know, that's healthy.

Speaker 3 I think about people like you who have to do this and deal with it, you know, because for me, like my, my first reaction was to do that, was just sort of retreat and, you know, go under the covers and also be grateful that I don't have to deal with it every second of my life.

Speaker 3 Now, then, of course, at a certain point, you know, your conscience kicks in and you're like, I have to say something. I have to do something.

Speaker 3 But for someone who has to go out every day and deal with this, really, you know, this craziness, I

Speaker 3 commend you and appreciate you.

Speaker 2 Well, thanks. I mean, it's not exactly the coal mines.
You know, I'm not exactly Zoolander in the mines here, but

Speaker 2 I appreciate it. I'm doing my best.

Speaker 2 I do want to start one. Well, I guess it's kind of heavy, or it could be funny.

Speaker 2 We could take whatever way you want, but I was listening to your New York Times interview, and you kind of started talking about

Speaker 2 the nature of reality in the context of the Severance show. And so I wanted to start here.
Is this real? Like, are we alive? Is it possible that we're severed from like a better earth somewhere else?

Speaker 2 You know, have you, have you thought or been thinking about that at all the last month? It's been a weird month.

Speaker 3 I mean, honestly, I've been thinking about, yeah, just reality in general.

Speaker 3 And I don't know if that's just where I'm at in my life or, you know, what I've been eating or I don't know, but it's just sort of every day is, and maybe it's also like where I'm at in my life in terms of, you know, like I'm 59 years old.

Speaker 3 I'm just thinking about all of that, how time goes by. And then the actual reality of our world and, yeah, the political situation, you know, I think everybody creates.

Speaker 3 in a certain sense, their own reality and that like you're, it's all so subjective. That's what I think.
You know, the nature of reality, that's that we could talk about that for hours and hours.

Speaker 3 I'm not going to give you any insights on it other than I do contemplate it a lot, actually.

Speaker 2 You might give me some insights. I'm still struggling.
I'm like thinking about, you know, I'm just thinking about the 19-year-olds that are running the Treasury Department right now.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, maybe actually there's a 19-year-old up there in the sky running this whole thing. And he's getting a good laugh.

Speaker 3 It's a little bit, I mean, it is a little bit crazy, the speed at which things are happening and what's going on.

Speaker 3 And I guess, you know, it's not really a metaphysical thought, though, but it's just it's hard to comprehend when things are going. It feels like things are going very, very fast.

Speaker 3 And also what the actual repercussions of things in our lives are going to be.

Speaker 3 I know the people who get affected by directly by all the things that are, you know, being done right now in the government, but like just in terms of when we go through our daily lives, how is, you know, how do we deal with this?

Speaker 3 It's really that question, like coming back to like your conscience of like, what is it that you need to do as a person? Because that's a personal choice that everybody has to make.

Speaker 2 Have you thought about this? I mean, you've got to be thinking about how to engage. And obviously you've done some political engagement before, some charity work, of course.
You're doing this.

Speaker 2 You don't have to do this.

Speaker 2 I'm sure some people's PR people would be like, why are you going to talk to Tim? Like,

Speaker 2 who the hell knows what he's going to get you to say about the president? And, you know,

Speaker 2 the Shineheart Whig Company might get mad at us, our corporate overlords. So how are you thinking about all that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think about it day by day and sort of moment by moment.

Speaker 3 And I try not to think about it too much in terms of, you know, yeah, like my own sort of like personal sort of my image or something like that, because I really feel like you have to go from a place of like, well, just what feels right for me.

Speaker 3 You know, when it comes to engaging on social media and things like that, I feel like people feel like if you're going to be on social media,

Speaker 3 you have some sort of responsibility to speak out on everything that's happening. And that's just like ridiculous and impossible.
And nobody needs that. Nobody needs that pressure.

Speaker 3 Nobody needs to hear everything that Ben Stiller thinks about everything.

Speaker 2 It's like you have to issue a statement on every public news item as if you're a politician.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Or it's like, you know, you're saying too much about this.
You're not saying enough about that.

Speaker 3 And, you know, when everything happened, you know, over the last year and a half or so with Gaza and Israel, I realized like there's no way I'm going to start.

Speaker 3 going back and forth on social media with people about this. That's just

Speaker 3 a no-win game. And also, I don't want to put my energy into that.

Speaker 3 And so I decided to say something by writing something about it and just decided that I'm not going to get into that back and forth, but I have my own feelings about it.

Speaker 3 And I'll express myself when I feel like I need to express myself.

Speaker 2 What about the business side of this? I do promise we'll get to Severance stuff at the end for Severance and Arts. We'll do plenty of Severance talk because I'm obsessed.

Speaker 2 But I'm curious about the business side of it. Like in my world, in kind of journalism or broadly defined, you're seeing

Speaker 2 some stuff stuff from the Washington Post, from LA Times, from various other media outlets that are being more cautious now, that are pivoting. They're worried they might get sued.

Speaker 2 I'm wondering, are you seeing any changes in

Speaker 2 whether things are getting stifled creatively from a Hollywood perspective, or do we not know yet? It's so early.

Speaker 3 I think everybody's going to have their own personal reaction, and it's impossible not to be aware of the fact that

Speaker 3 people feel this, you know, that, oh, wow, you know, there can be retribution from the government if you say something wrong. And that's really scary.

Speaker 3 So just to even be thinking that way is, but, you know, of course, I'm aware of it. I think everybody's aware of it.

Speaker 3 And, you know, certain people are just naturally more outspoken and always have been. And I've sort of like, you know, had my own path with it.

Speaker 3 But right now, Yeah, I think it's, it's definitely a thing that people feel.

Speaker 3 And in a way, for me, it makes me think about it even more about, well, what do I really want to say and how do I really feel about something?

Speaker 3 And I think for artists in times like these, their creative energy really goes into expressing

Speaker 3 what they feel. And there's a lot of amazing work that can come out of times like these that I hope we see.

Speaker 2 I kind of feel like we... didn't get that in the first Trump.
I don't know why. Not that there wasn't great art in the first Trump, but it wasn't like during that four years, you look back on that and

Speaker 2 feel about it the way that you you might about the civil rights movement or

Speaker 2 all this like amazing kind of music and movies.

Speaker 2 Why do you think that is?

Speaker 3 Maybe the first time around, it was more about Trump. And then this time around, it's more about the realization that our country is really deeply divided.

Speaker 3 For me, it's less about the fact that he won by a majority and that. many, many, many people are willing to go down that road.
And what is that?

Speaker 3 So that's actually something that it's always, I think, been about. And that divide is something that I think

Speaker 3 you have to sort of wrestle with and acknowledge and figure out and look at your own point of view in that too, and your own prejudice towards people who don't have the same point of view as you.

Speaker 3 But I also feel like there's a reality to

Speaker 3 where we are. And we have to figure out how to go forward and be productive and call out

Speaker 3 when the line is being crossed, which it seems like it's being crossed. I mean, January 6th, violent offenders being pardoned.
That's a line, you know.

Speaker 2 It does say something about our country, though.

Speaker 2 I mean, that is really, like, when we were joking about being under the covers at the beginning, like, to me, it's more about that, right?

Speaker 2 Like the realization that we chose this, like, not that, not all of us chose it, but that, like, broadly, the country chose it, rather than like a particular, like, not like I'm scared that, I don't know, Eagle Ed Martin in the, in the, well, you know, D.C.

Speaker 2 prosecutor's office is going to come for me. I don't know.
Who the hell knows what will happen? But it's less about that.

Speaker 2 The deeper questions to mind kind of are about what it says about the country, I guess. Right.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I guess. I mean, and also I think it's like what, you know, what people are getting out of it and what they want out of it.
And I think everybody, you know, in the country.

Speaker 3 People want to have a better standard of living and they don't want to have to, you know, pay so much for housing and they want to, you know, or food.

Speaker 3 And all those things are very real and legitimate. It's just, you know, how you get there and whether you believe that, you know, what Trump is saying.

Speaker 3 And, but I don't think that motivation behind that is necessarily wrong to want someone who's going to fix those things.

Speaker 2 So here's an element of it that's a little closer to your work, though.

Speaker 2 What if it's less about wanting to put food on the table or whatever? And I'm sure that's true for some people.

Speaker 2 But for other people, it was like more about feeling like that the culture was going away from them, that like movies were, you know, all this like woke lash, like everything.

Speaker 2 There's we have a, you know, we have a black little mermaid now, or whatever, or like the comedians can't do the jokes that they used to do anymore.

Speaker 2 And like, we need to, and that there's been overreach on that side on the left, and that we need to, you know, there needs to be a boomerang back.

Speaker 2 Some of those feelings are probably illegitimate and bigoted. Maybe there's some

Speaker 2 real legitimate feelings there. I don't know.
What do you think about that kind of element of it?

Speaker 3 I think that anything you say on that can get twisted around in some other way.

Speaker 2 I've experienced that.

Speaker 3 I think the bottom line with that is you just have to go out and do it. And you have to go do what you think is funny, do what you think is creative,

Speaker 3 make what you want to make. And yeah, there are realities to what gets made these days that it's harder.
I don't know if it's necessarily related to that as much as to just

Speaker 3 economics in terms of the box office and

Speaker 3 just sort of boring things like that. Well, I think broad comedy has not really worked at the box office for a long time.
Until that happens,

Speaker 3 then that will open up the floodgates more. But, you know, to politicize it is tough because everybody has a different point of view on it.

Speaker 3 And a lot of it is legitimate, but there's no like one person saying like, oh, you can do this or you can't do that.

Speaker 2 In some ways, it's like a different side of the same thing. Like a lot of it is just like lawyers and PR people being cautious, right? And honestly, like I understand why

Speaker 2 some multinational corporation that has a bunch of interests before the government would want to be cautious right now because Trump is capricious and will target people.

Speaker 2 And I also would understand why that corporation might

Speaker 2 not want to publish some comedy that is a little bit too provocative, or there might be a backlash or whatever, or that they would want to, you know, do something that thinks would get them good PR, right?

Speaker 2 Like all, all of that is like related to caution. I mean, like, some of it's more real than others, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, and I think that's kind of always been there on a certain level in show business. That's been always been part of it.

Speaker 3 I mean, but honestly, like, even like looking at our show, you know, our show is sort of has elements of corporate satire or whatever, you know,

Speaker 3 or commentary. But, you know,

Speaker 3 Apple makes our show. And I've never ever experienced them like coming in and saying, like, oh, you shouldn't have this in your show or that.
You know, there's like none.

Speaker 2 You're going to get a phone call to this pod, though. They're like, are you fucking serious? Like, why would you do this? Okay.
I was listening to one of the other interviews you were doing.

Speaker 2 You said you're working on a, or you're hoping to work on an adaptation of the Bagman podcast that Rachel Mana did about about Spiro Agnew. I love this.

Speaker 2 I keep bringing up the Spiro Agnew story recently because it was like

Speaker 2 he has to resign. The vice president has to resign.
It's been a while since I looked at it. It was like 10 grand or something.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he was taking

Speaker 3 10 or 20 grand. $10, $20,000 payoffs in the White House from,

Speaker 3 you know, from back when he was governor of Maryland.

Speaker 2 It is funny to tell that story now in the context of, you know, the incoming president has a, has a, has a Bitcoin, has a, has a cryptocurrency,

Speaker 2 The richest man in the world is,

Speaker 2 you know, like taking over the Treasury Department. And it's like, man, that was a controversy in the early 70s when Spiro was taking 10 grand for some construction.

Speaker 3 It seems quaint. It definitely seems quaint.
But, you know, that's what is kind of amazing about the story is that you see, you know, how at that time,

Speaker 3 doing something like that, you know, was so

Speaker 3 far over the line and that these guys actually did something about it, and how much

Speaker 3 our culture has shifted, you know, in what is 50 years.

Speaker 2 The other Spiro thing that is actually interesting is he,

Speaker 2 I mean, he was on the fake news stuff. He was really kind of the earliest person to weaponize that in a really meaningful way.

Speaker 2 And it goes back, I mean, I'm sure there was somebody that made, of course, people complained about the media always, but like to really weaponize it and like mass mobilize people against.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. And he, you know, just deny, deny, deny.
He was the guy who did that and

Speaker 3 had, you know, kind of some weird sort of like, you know, early 70s charisma type thing where he just used that and just basically said, yeah, no, I didn't do it until he was guilty and he admitted it.

Speaker 2 I hope that gets made because I think that'd be really good. The Spirit story is good.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, me too. Me too.

Speaker 2 Y'all, it's pretty crazy out there. I was just

Speaker 2 talking to Ben Stiller about whether we're living in a simulation or whether this is real life. So that tells you a little bit something about my mental stability.

Speaker 2 I'm thinking about what's happening with life and what craziness could be around the corner. So when you're subject to existential dread, to thoughts about what kind of craziness might befall us next,

Speaker 2 One thing to do to bring a little bit of peace of mind is think about some life insurance.

Speaker 2 Regain control with a life insurance policy found just for for you by the licensed insurance agents at SelectQuote. They can protect your financial legacy.

Speaker 2 Whether you need $500,000 or $50 million in coverage, like Ben Stiller, SelectQuote can find you the perfect policy.

Speaker 2 SelectQuote is one of America's leading insurance brokers with nearly 40 years of experience helping over 2 million customers find over $700 billion in coverage since 1985.

Speaker 2 Other life insurance brokers offer impersonal one-size-fits-all policies that may cost you more and cover you less.

Speaker 2 While SelectQuote's licensed insurance agents work for you to tailor a life insurance policy for your individual needs.

Speaker 2 And have you ever worried about getting coverage of the pre-existing health condition? SelectQuote partners with carriers that provide policies for a variety of health conditions.

Speaker 2 High blood pressure, no problem. Diabetes, that's fine too.
Even if you have heart disease, SelectQuote partners with carriers that can cover that condition and others.

Speaker 2 So get the right life insurance for you for less at selectquote.com slash bulwark. Go to selectquote.com/slash bulwark today to get started.
That's selectquote.com/slash bullwork.

Speaker 2 All right, two more politics things for you, then we'll get into fun.

Speaker 2 I'm obligated to bring up the fact that the shadow president, Elon Musk, did tweet that you went full retard above a pick of you with your endorsement of Kamala Harris.

Speaker 2 I guess it was a quote of Tropic Thunder. That's got to be kind of surreal to be that, like, this is where we're at, right? To see this guy, like, tweeting the arsler at you and also

Speaker 3 i guess like taking over offices in the west wing and also well that part of it i mean yeah like it's sort of like whatever he's tweeting you know like i would think he might have better things to do with his time or like with his rocket ships or whatever it is like the guy's got to be busy but i think What's more disturbing is how close he is to the president and how involved he is in making decisions about, you know, people's jobs and our government when he has no position there.

Speaker 2 Has he ever called you? Have you ever got a phone call?

Speaker 3 He has not.

Speaker 2 I'm just spitballing on you right now. But if you offered him a spot in Tropic Thunder 2,

Speaker 2 we might be able to get out of some of this stuff. I don't know.

Speaker 3 Well, maybe he wants to finance it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, finance it.

Speaker 3 Drop in the bucket. Give him $200, $300 million.
Definance it.

Speaker 2 Give him a bit roll and just be like, in exchange for that.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to say simple jack but yeah could we like get usaid back i don't know like i think that's as seems like as good idea as any the these guys do like attention it feel it seems like i would be happy to keep him busy doing that so he's not doing the other stuff he's doing for the next four years all right that's just one idea hopefully maybe that can a germ of an idea could turn into something um back when we were doing uh when i was doing the anti-trump super pack like way back before i'd wrinkles like in 2016

Speaker 2 people kept being like all the money that these rich guys are putting into the anti-Trump ads, couldn't we just, I don't know, buy them off.

Speaker 2 Couldn't they have just given that money to, like, couldn't, couldn't they got Trump to the table? I think in retrospect, that probably would have been more effective than some of the tactics we used.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I don't, I don't understand how we got here, but I think also the whole

Speaker 3 thing that's going on now with the super rich people in the world who are all behind him has been really concerning, obviously. And I think it's, you know, it's not really that surprising.

Speaker 3 I guess that it's human nature and it's greed and it's power and it's all the things that human beings do and have done throughout history. But it, you know, it's happening.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, there's no revelation there.

Speaker 2 No, there's no revelation, but it is, I guess, just to expand on your point, it's just so stark that they would all like do it for him. Right?

Speaker 2 This takes me back to the simulation thing.

Speaker 2 The four richest people in the world, like, who have FU money, are all like prostrating themselves like for access to the power wielded by this guy.

Speaker 2 Like it's like it almost is like a mo like you're trying to test the limits of greed.

Speaker 2 Like there's a movie script here about like how embarrassing can we make it to get these guys to debase themselves. And the answer is like unlimited amount of embarrassment.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Or how obvious or just sort of like, and he's just the guy who's willing to do it.

Speaker 3 Has been well documented. He's been willing to break the norms.

Speaker 2 All right. the other uh

Speaker 2 kind of hollywood politics thing i wanted to spitball by you besides my traffic thunder idea which i just came up with on the fly so i'm feeling pretty good about um here's my bad i was wondering like you know you i guess have done dem fundraisers so i haven't talked to dems at some level I do wonder, like a lot of times they rely on Hollywood a little too much for various things, but I do wonder if they might be able to learn some lessons from Hollywood on like mass marketing to people.

Speaker 2 Like I was watching the Timothy Chalamet Bob Dylan, you know, media tour and um like he's like this liberal noodle boy from new york that had mostly like girls and gay fans like up until two minutes ago and he like goes out there and he's like i'm gonna go on theo vaughn i'm gonna go do you know the college game day and like we're gonna repackage me and put me out there in a way that like resonates with more like a guys kind of audience type of people that like would like a bob dylan movie and like that like worked and i do wonder if there's any lessons there for Democrats.

Speaker 3 I might push back and do that. I don't know

Speaker 3 Timothy that well. I know, you know, see him around, see him at Knicks Games, everyone's cool.
I think he's a genuine sports fan.

Speaker 3 I know he's like an Upper West Side kid, you know, who like genuinely loves sports.

Speaker 3 So I feel like he was just kind of leaning into and smartly kind of going like, hey, let's do this a little different. But I feel like it's organic for him.

Speaker 2 So we need a genuine sports fan to be the Dem standard bear is what you're saying? Or somebody that is genuinely more in touch with guy culture? I don't know.

Speaker 3 I think what you've been talking about, and I've heard you recently talking about it on the podcast, about just that, you know, the Democrats need to figure out a way to get in touch with the electorate that is like really connecting with them in a way that the Republicans have, is a huge thing.

Speaker 3 And I don't know what the answer is to that, but the reality is that, yeah, it seems like that isn't happening right now.

Speaker 3 I think everybody's still sort of like regrouping from what's happened, but that's concerning to me for sure.

Speaker 2 All right. I want to put this bug in your head because I feel like you've got to to have some value here.
Like, you know, Night at the Museum, you've like done mass market movies.

Speaker 2 There are Republicans buying these shoes, Ben Stiller. Like, you know, you figured that out.
Like, there are Republicans going to some of these movies. All right.
So like, there's got to be.

Speaker 3 Although people get mad at, you know, on Axe or Twitter or whatever, and they'll say, no, I'm not going to watch your movies and all that. And it's like, all right, you know, I guess fine.

Speaker 3 I really, I'm not coming at you in any way other than I'm just expressing how I feel, you know, and I've never really been super political in my, you know, what I've, the movies I've made.

Speaker 3 Like Night of the Museum isn't a political screed.

Speaker 2 It is not.

Speaker 2 I also think those people are lying, right? It's like, I dare you to go watch Happy Gilmore and come back and still be, and still, you know, you're really going to cut yourself off from that?

Speaker 2 You're going to, you're going to cut yourself off from that.

Speaker 3 That's their choice. That's your choice

Speaker 3 if you have to really look inside and go like, okay, I can't accept what you do because of, you know, who you endorse for president.

Speaker 2 All right. One last political thing.
I know you've been kind of an advocate and like traveled the world doing

Speaker 2 stuff talking about displaced people. I had the list in front of me, but I lost it.
You went to, oh, here it is. You went to Germany, Jordan, Guatemala, Lebanon.

Speaker 2 I mean, like, this is the top of my worry list right now.

Speaker 2 I mean, obviously, we have some acute concerns here at home, but I do think we're about like we're kind of entering into a phase where there is just not going to be a lot of support anymore from the U.S.

Speaker 2 for

Speaker 2 people

Speaker 2 who, you know, we had once been a a beacon of hope for.

Speaker 3 We've always been, you know, obviously some times in our history where it hasn't been perfect, but yeah, yeah, the United States has always been a place that's accepted people who are fleeing from political persecution.

Speaker 2 Is there any stories you have from those trips or anything, like something that inspired you?

Speaker 3 You know, I thought about people when recently, you know, what happened in Syria with Assad.

Speaker 3 I thought about the people that I met in displaced persons camps in Jordan who had been there for, you seven, eight years at the time I met them waiting to go back home.

Speaker 3 And when you're meeting with someone who's living in a tent, who's a doctor or a lawyer or someone who just is not someone who wants to be there and just by the fate of living in a country that was in the midst of war and was displaced.

Speaker 3 through no fault of their own, that their life is completely put on hold. And all they want to do is go back home and start their life again.

Speaker 3 And I thought about them, you know, maybe being able to go back. We don't know what's going to to happen in Syria.
You know, the other is so demonized in a way now and feared.

Speaker 3 And that's the most concerning thing to me is that the message that we put out of welcoming people and welcoming people who can contribute to our country and to our society.

Speaker 3 And that's the overwhelming evidence is that's what happens with refugees who do come to America.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's going to be a really tough time, but it's really about, you know, these are human beings, people, kids who have got, you know, I met a kid who had to go to work taking care of his family at 10 years old.

Speaker 3 And I said, like, you're a really strong kid. He goes, I'm not a kid.
I'm a man. And he was, you know, 10 years old taking care of his whole family in Jordan.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, I just would hope that we get back to being the country that represents that acceptance and what's positive about having people from all over the world be a part of our country, which is how our country was made up originally.

Speaker 2 Me too. This was a big one for me.
And

Speaker 2 it's tough.

Speaker 2 You know, some of this can be filled in by NGOs and, you know, people like Self-Rat, they're raising money for groups and big donors and foundations. But like,

Speaker 2 fundamentally, part of this is nation states

Speaker 2 need to help, right? Like, there need to be, there need to be safe harbor countries. Like, there's a lot of regulatory stuff that goes into, you know, this, as far as visas, right?

Speaker 2 Like, at some level, there's only so much people can do. You know, if you're making the camps nicer, that's one, you know, but like, come on.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and the camps are, you know, are there and necessary, but that, that's, like I said, you know, you, you see people whose lives are just put on hold, and those are not a solution, obviously.

Speaker 3 And the neighboring countries are really the countries that take the most of the, you know, the outflow when there is a, you know, a situation going on.

Speaker 3 I mean, in a country that is at war or whatever it is. And

Speaker 3 I think, you know, it's something like over 100 million displaced people in the world right now, 100 million. So it's hard to kind of even comprehend that.

Speaker 3 But yeah, the root causes are what it's about.

Speaker 3 And And I think Filippo Grandi, who's the UN Refugee Agency High Commissioner, you know, it's a really good person who spends most of his time going from country to country and talking to governments about what they can do to help.

Speaker 3 And it's sort of a never-ending process for him.

Speaker 2 Elevating your style used to mean breaking the bank, but with Quince, you can get high-end, versatile pieces at pricing that you can actually afford.

Speaker 2 Now you upgrade your style by snagging killer luxury essentials that sync with your vibe and your wallet.

Speaker 2 Quince has all the must-haves, like Mongolian cashmere crew neck sweaters from 50 bucks, iconic 100% leather jackets, and versatile flow-knit activewear.

Speaker 2 The best part, all Quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us.

Speaker 2 And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics and finishes. I love it.

Speaker 2 I just got a a new sort of like an army green jacket from Quince that I could not be more excited to wear. Very excited.
It was chilly the week that I got it. And this week I'm off to Palm Springs.

Speaker 2 I don't know if it's the right Palm Springs vibe, but as soon as I get back in New Orleans, I'm going to be in that shacket. It is looking good.
And,

Speaker 2 you know, I've got a bunch of different Quince items now that you'll be seeing me rotating through here on the YouTube. You know, I wouldn't steer you the wrong way on something like this.

Speaker 2 So indulge in affordable luxury.

Speaker 2 Go to to quince.com slash the bulwark for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns that's q-u-in-n-ce-e.com slash the bulwark to get free shipping and 365-day returns quince.com slash the bulwark

Speaker 2 all right let's do some severance okay i'm up to speed okay no spoilers for anybody else yeah three episodes and when this goes on well episode four comes on thursday tonight so on thursday so it'll be coming uh tomorrow that's uh episode four will be going tomorrow i don't no spoilers for me me until I get back home over the weekend because I'm going to be messing it along the road tomorrow.

Speaker 2 But I guess just at the beginning, like what was it? I mean, obviously, it's like you, you have a production company, you have your pick of the litter, I assume.

Speaker 2 Like, what was it that appealed to you about Severance?

Speaker 3 It was a script that got sent to our production company, a spec script. Somebody wrote Dan Erickson, who now is the creator of the show, and he had never had anything produced.

Speaker 3 And it was just, it reminded me of just all my, like, I don't know, like favorite shows. It reminded me of Twilight Zone, it reminded me of The Office.

Speaker 3 It had just like a weird, just kind of sort of like alternate reality vibe to it, but it was also a workplace comedy and the dialogue was so funny. And I met with him, and it just, we were in sync.

Speaker 3 I was like, this could be great. And, you know, it took a few years to make it to get it off the ground, but it was just something I wanted to see.

Speaker 2 Why? Why did it take long?

Speaker 3 Because Apple didn't exist yet, Apple TV Plus. They were just starting up.
Gotcha. And then we developed it for a while.
And then you kind of go back, like writing out the rest of the season.

Speaker 3 And then we had a casting issue where, you know, we didn't settle on Adam Scott because I wanted Adam Scott for a long time. And we finally got to the place where everybody was on the same page.

Speaker 3 And I wasn't going to make it if he wasn't doing it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's so good. It's funny.
All these things, like whenever I listen to Hunt Hollywood podcast, these background conversations, and like you hear the alternate paths.

Speaker 2 The show would feel weird not on Apple Plus and not with Adam, right? It just, it does feel very aligned with the whole vibe of what the other stuff is on that streamer.

Speaker 2 And then like, Adam is so great. I'm like, who else would have this?

Speaker 3 Right. Yeah.
Adam, to me, there was never anybody else, but also the synchronicity, I think, of just being on Apple TV Plus, which we didn't know what it would be, but

Speaker 3 it just feels like that's the home for it. And we pitched it all the different to all the different streamers and nobody wanted it except Apple.

Speaker 2 You also have Tuturo in there. I guess he's not a podcast listener because he didn't recognize me, but we were shopping together in Brooklyn the other day.
Oh, really?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it cracked me up because he was like doing his own costuming. He was talking to the guy where it's at some like boutique store, and he's talking to the owner of the store.

Speaker 2 And he's like, Yeah, they gave me something, but it's not right. And I'm going, son, I want something else.
And it was like such a scene.

Speaker 3 He's super stylish, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he looked great. And I was like, I have to buy something from the store now.
So it worked out for the

Speaker 3 did you see he walked the runway in Milan, Brasinia?

Speaker 2 I did not a couple weeks ago? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I've got to go pull that up when we're finished. But

Speaker 2 it's got to just be a joy to be a John Tuturo every day. Or not every day, but for the time that you're on set.

Speaker 3 Yeah, before I didn't know him, I'd just been a fan, and we'd crossed paths a couple of times. I remember I ran into him once in an editing room.
I was editing something. He was editing something.

Speaker 3 We talked about like maybe working together someday. He's so intense and he's so committed.
And I feel like he's one of the reasons the show works is because you just believe him.

Speaker 3 You believe that he believes all that lore and all those crazy ideas. And, you know, when the, when the actor believes it, then, you know, you invest as an audience.
And yeah, it was fun.

Speaker 3 You know, I feel good now that I know him because at first, the first season, it was a little bit like, I just, you know, a little intimidated by, you know, Taturo.

Speaker 2 Intimidated by Toro because of the Jesus character? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, the Jesus character. He's a, he's a director.
He's friggin' intense. He's intimidated.
And he's smart because he like, he

Speaker 3 trusting for him is a big thing. And I think that's why he wanted to work with Chris Walk-in because they were friends and they had a, you know, built-in trust already.

Speaker 3 And I think once you earn his trust, it's, you know, then it's just like really fun.

Speaker 2 Okay, quick spoiler. If you haven't watched the session, just fast forward 45 seconds.
Who had the balls to make a Doturo Walk-in love story pitch?

Speaker 3 That's not a spoiler.

Speaker 2 And I guess it's not a spoiler because it was having a season one. Yeah.

Speaker 3 That was Dan, Dan Erickson. You know, I mean, it's all out of his head.
Watching them develop that was really beautiful just as a fan to see that.

Speaker 3 And it was really fun to see that the fans of the show really embrace that too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I did. I looked to my husband and I was like, this is goals here.
You know, can we be Totoro or Walking 15 years ahead? It's interesting because the show

Speaker 2 doesn't take place now, right?

Speaker 2 What time period are we actually in? Do they ever say?

Speaker 3 I can't help you there, Tim.

Speaker 2 Oh, we don't know. Oh, got it.
It could be.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we don't ever specify.

Speaker 2 I mean, we don't have TikTok, I guess is what I'm telling you.

Speaker 3 Like, you can just, there's certain ways that you can sense that it's not the year 2020 yeah it's weird there's there's certain technology that's in the show and then there's certain you know cars don't seem like they're from today there's a you know cobell uh patricia arquette's character has a vw rabbit yeah one of my favorite cars it feels very like relevant to the moment like a lot of the themes and a lot of the topics so like how did you feel like that that all worked that all came together well sometimes i think it's easier to do something that is not of the moment and you know doesn't it was very important for me that we didn't have like cnn or you know any brand names that we really recognize they're like you know maybe like a few things you could see there but really we do everything we can to keep them out because it's its own universe in its own place and i think that allows it to then you know not be commenting on something that's specifically happening right now in the moment and i think hopefully it gives it a little bit more of a sort of an you know a lifetime you know for people to react to in whatever time they watch the show what down the line as you said it is a little bit of of a corporate commentary, right?

Speaker 2 Like obviously this is kind of a secrety, secret corporation, and the characters are

Speaker 2 separating their, you know, outside their work life from inside the work life.

Speaker 2 To what extent do you think that is like particularly pertaining to

Speaker 2 the technological questions we're dealing with today or some of the big, the big tech giants? Is there anything that is specifically on point towards that? Or is it more of a

Speaker 2 speaking, you know, kind of like any place, anytime, there have always been these, these sorts of sacrifices you make?

Speaker 3 I think the idea of working at a big company, a big corporation is, you know, what's there in the show. And, you know, he wrote that script close to 10 years ago, the pilot.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 We started making it before COVID, and then all of a sudden we were making it during COVID. And then it was like a show about, you know, isolation.

Speaker 3 So it's interesting how certain ideas, I think if there's something that's universal in them, and I think this idea of going, you know, to a job that you work for this sort of, you know, unknown boss who is, you know, who we don't know who this, the board is, we don't know who the CEO is really, we know who he is, but we don't know what they're doing, why they're doing it.

Speaker 3 These people literally have no idea what they're doing there. And I think there's something that people can relate to in a certain level.

Speaker 3 I also love the metaphor of just life of like, you know, you know, we get up, we do our thing, we work hard, we get upset, we fall in love, we do all this stuff, and we have no idea why or really where we're going or what happens when we die.

Speaker 3 And so, to me, that greater metaphor is kind of like what's going on with them in the show.

Speaker 2 This takes us back to the metaphysical questions: are we in a reality right now?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I thought you were taking to the metaphor of life, like my life. Like, could I sever having to do this podcast off from the rest of my life? And I might be able to do that.
Would you want to?

Speaker 2 Well, I don't know. You're asking me that right this second.
I would say no. There would certainly be an appeal.

Speaker 2 I think I would enjoy myself at the MJ Lenderman show at Tibetina's tonight more if I had if I was able to sever off the rest of this, but maybe not.

Speaker 3 Well, it's also that question of like what you're severing from. Like, do you, you know, what do you actually experience as Tim? Do you experience your innie or your outie?

Speaker 3 You know, and which is the one that you really remember? Because when you're innie, you're innie. And when you're, you're outie, you're your outie.

Speaker 3 So do you love doing the podcast or do you dislike doing the podcast?

Speaker 2 No, I do. I love it.
I don't, I don't love that I have to do it. These are the things I have to talk about.

Speaker 2 I mean, this, this is fine right now, but you know, the other things that I have to talk about. But yeah, I guess that is right a question is like, what is it?

Speaker 2 Like, it's sort of about what makes you like, you know, what is your essence? You know?

Speaker 3 And what is the thing that makes you want to experience it, makes you, you know, quote unquote happy? You know, where's the place you want to be? And a lot of people don't want to be at work.

Speaker 3 And that's why Dan wrote the show, I think, is because he was working at a door factory that he had to go to for whatever, like eight or nine hours a day.

Speaker 2 And he just wanted to forget that part of his life oh that's funny they just have the door factory cameo yes in the second episode yeah tribute to dan yeah i guess that's true and also the happiness element of it right is like maybe that's not true i i maybe i i'm happier at the mj lenderman show knowing i've earned it you know yeah sure like there's an element of that i i personally love doing what I do, but it can be really hard sometimes, but I'm also grateful that I'm not, like you said, you know, Derek Zulander in the coal mines.

Speaker 3 You know, it's like, I'm grateful for that.

Speaker 3 So I don't want to forget what I'm doing, you know, when I go away from it. But then there's always the painful parts of life that we would, I think, we all fantasize about forgetting.

Speaker 3 But I think one of the themes in the show is really, is what can you forget? You know, what can we really, you can't, you know, what can you suppress? You can't, we experience things.

Speaker 3 We can try not to remember them, but something inside of us is going to feel it, whether it's in our body, it's our, you know, memory, whatever, repressed memory.

Speaker 3 And, you know, there's a lot of research about that too, about what's generational trauma, things like that.

Speaker 2 It's in conversation with that movie,

Speaker 2 Eternal Sunshine. Sunshine.

Speaker 3 I loved that movie.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Charlie Kaufman. Yeah, they're definitely Charlie Kaufman.

Speaker 2 Parallels. I also wanted to ask about the four tempers.
Why are we taming frolic? The four tempers Keir is taming are woe, frolic, dread, and malice. Curious what those four mean to you.

Speaker 3 I mean, you know, what do you want me to tell you?

Speaker 3 I don't know.

Speaker 2 What do you think about those four tempers?

Speaker 3 From what I've seen, what I've seen in the show, you know, yeah, there's, you know, the myth is that Keir went into the cave and tamed the Four Tempers. That's what that painting is.

Speaker 2 We don't know why.

Speaker 3 Well, I think, you know, it has something to do maybe the idea of, you know, in the 19th century, he was, you know, creating some sort of way of dealing with, you know, he was kind of a doctor.

Speaker 3 He had to, you know, had a...

Speaker 3 the first sort of medical med tech company for the 19th century and he was the humors, you know, the idea of like how people would sometimes try to cure people that weren't necessarily medically oriented and those beliefs.

Speaker 3 So I can't tell you much more, though, Tim, because then I'm in trouble.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I think there's something more there.
I think there's something you're not telling me. Woe, frolic, dread, and malice.
I'm just going to keep thinking about that. All right.

Speaker 2 My last, my husband's theory on this is that when the brain gets severed, it also affects their comprehension.

Speaker 2 So when they're doing the computer games, if they could use their real brain, they could see what is on the computer and it would tell them what the company does. Interesting.
What do you think about

Speaker 2 It was interesting. All right.
I want to close. I have some final, I have a game I wanted to close with for you.

Speaker 2 But before we get to the game, I had one other topic I forgot, which is kind of related to the game because some of the characters in the game will be relevant in this question.

Speaker 2 Why can't we make good comedies anymore, like the 2000s? And like, not because of the stuff we were talking about earlier, like just fundamentally, like, are people out of good ideas?

Speaker 2 I mean, you had a run that was like Zoolander, Dodgeball, Falkers, Meet the Parents, Happy Gilmore. And I was like, what was the best comedy last year? I Googled it.
I couldn't find one.

Speaker 2 I asked our culture editor. He goes, ooh, tough one.
Comedy's in a dire spot.

Speaker 2 He's like, maybe the fall guy. And he goes, maybe Nutcrackers.

Speaker 2 I have to admit, I haven't seen.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 what's the deal?

Speaker 3 I don't know. Honestly, I wish I even knew why those movies were working back then.
Really? I think it's.

Speaker 3 You don't feel like you know, I feel like at that time, first of all, people were going to the theaters to watch movies.

Speaker 3 And again, it comes back to that thing of, well, the studios will produce stuff when they're making money. So that was happening.

Speaker 3 And I feel like until we do that again, now, in terms of ideas, like you're asking the wrong guy, because like, I feel like I'm always trying to figure out like, what's a good idea?

Speaker 3 And I'm always sort of like ripping it apart. So comedy is hard, I think.
It's really hard

Speaker 3 because not everybody is going to laugh at what you think is funny.

Speaker 3 And when you can find something, for some reason, at that time, everybody was laughing at the same stuff and going for it and enjoying it.

Speaker 3 And I feel like, you know, studio movies these days really need to get a really, really big audience.

Speaker 3 And it's a little bit of a chicken and the egg thing, what I'm saying, because I don't have the answer to it.

Speaker 2 Think about how easier it is now to have access to like weed vapes. Right.
You know, people are high all the time. People have got to be way higher than they were now in the 2000s.

Speaker 2 So you've got to be able to provide something to make high people laugh. Right.

Speaker 3 They just have to get to the theater and get high. That's the thing because it's easy when you have that to stay home and just watch what's on the couch or what you're on from the couch.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Well, we could start with some Apple comedies then or one of the streamers. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Look, I'm into it. I'm trying, actually, trying to figure it out.
But I think it's also we have, there's a much younger generation of really funny people out there.

Speaker 3 And, you know, who are trying to do it too.

Speaker 2 Oh, I thought you were going to say there's a much younger generation that's brains are broken and

Speaker 2 we can't reach them because they have too much anxiety.

Speaker 3 You You know, there's attention span and stuff like that, but I think there are really, really funny people out there.

Speaker 3 It's more challenging for them than it was for us at the time to get a movie made like that.

Speaker 2 For a minute, I was like, Am I just doing the old guy thing where it's like things are so much better when I was a teenager?

Speaker 2 And then I started doing some Googling and I was like, no, in this instance, things were better when I was a teenager. But

Speaker 2 is there anything you just think back on and that gives you a chuckle? Any

Speaker 2 little moments?

Speaker 3 I mean, for me, like movies like Stepbrothers, I could watch that movie all day. You know, that's actually the first thing I saw Adam Scott in when he played, you know, Derek the

Speaker 2 asshole.

Speaker 2 He was so funny.

Speaker 3 Look, I also love the comedies like in the 70s, too. And there are some great funny movies.

Speaker 3 You know, it's we don't have it happening in the movies right now, and somebody needs to break through with it. But I don't know if I have the answer.

Speaker 2 Everybody always asks you about the famous ones. Like, do you have any deep cuts that you really like? People should go watch any Ben Stiller movies?

Speaker 2 I mean, I guess Cable Guy is not really a deep cut, but a cultured son, he also said to me when I was brainstorming with him about this, he was like, prescient. Cable Guy was prescient.

Speaker 2 It was kind of about people's obsession with true crime, you know, infotainment. And like, so you nailed that.
Is there anything else like that?

Speaker 3 Right, except nobody has cable anymore.

Speaker 2 That's true, but it's the same. It's just like on here.
It's like the same thing. It's like it could be the TikTok guy now, and it would be this point would be the same.

Speaker 3 Albert Brooks' first movie, Real Life. Did you ever see that?

Speaker 2 I don't think I have. I've heard of it, but I haven't seen it.

Speaker 3 He made it like 1980, and it was basically he was doing a parody of the PBS series about the Loud family, an American family. That was the first reality show.
They followed a family around for a year.

Speaker 3 And then he did a takeoff on it where he was a filmmaker doing a documentary about a family. And it's one of the funniest movies ever.
And it foresees everything that reality television became.

Speaker 2 Real life's on my list. Okay, here's the game.

Speaker 2 What are you going to end with? You came on a political podcast, so you asked for this.

Speaker 3 I played it. Did I make it? Was it entertaining enough and fun? Because I feel like we just talked about heavy sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was cheerier than Ann Applebaum. Oh, really?

Speaker 2 If you have any, Jim, any funny stories you want to add?

Speaker 2 Yeah, funnier than Bill Crystal and Ann Applebaum.

Speaker 3 I enjoy you and Bill Crystal together. You're a good team.

Speaker 2 Thank you. It's kind of like a generational gag kind of humor thing.

Speaker 2 I mean, if you feel like you failed us, like, do you have like a funny story? Do you have like a tight five or anything?

Speaker 2 Like, what, like, if what if we were going on Jimmy Fallon, don't you prep something that's funny for Jimmy Fallon? Do you prep anything?

Speaker 3 Yeah, sometimes. And it's always like a lot.
it's very stressful. And I always feel like I'm not funny enough.
And like, I'm just the least funny, supposedly funny person I know.

Speaker 2 Got it. So you do, but you do prep.
You do prep like those. So like when Jimmy's like, tell me about your, your teen son's crisis that he had last week.
It was.

Speaker 3 I used to prep a lot more like in the early, like the 90s when I would go on and try to really do it. And then I just sort of got old and tired.
But it's, you know, TV talk shows have changed so much.

Speaker 3 If you watch those shows from the 70s again,

Speaker 3 this is an old guy Ben talking about, like, it's so interesting because people are talking about real shit. And then TV talk shows became like, yeah, what's your funny story?

Speaker 3 You have to talk to a pre-interviewer and then they write it out. And it's all like, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, lame. Okay.
That's why podcasts are doing well. I don't know about this one.

Speaker 3 It is. I feel like podcasts and the new talk shows of the, you know, what talk shows used to be.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like Dax. Have you done Dax? Dax.

Speaker 3 Yes, I've done Dax. It's great.

Speaker 2 That's so good. I should have listened to your Dax for prep.
Okay, we're back to the game. This is good.
This is professional podcasting right now. Here it is.
I don't have music to go along with it.

Speaker 2 Maybe we'll put it in a post.

Speaker 3 Game stressed me out, but let's go.

Speaker 2 Who did this character vote for in the 2024 election? The Alzheimer's nurse and Happy Gilmore.

Speaker 2 Trump. Trump.
White Goodman.

Speaker 3 I have to say Trump.

Speaker 2 Trump. Okay.
Chas Tenenbaum.

Speaker 3 Kamala.

Speaker 2 Kamala for Chaz Tenenbaum. I thought that was borderline.
This one was an easy one, but it's a sleeper movie, so I'm just shouting out. Roger Greenberg.
Ooh.

Speaker 2 I think combo for sure. Comma for sure.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but maybe secretly because I don't know.

Speaker 3 Like, he felt like he was like double thinking and thinking that, like, for his bottom line, but he really doesn't have a bottom line, doesn't make enough money that he's going to get the tax break, but he wishes he did.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he might have actually moped and not voted now that I think about it. The James Murphy soundtrack, and that is so good.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And finally, your four main characters, the office characters in Severance.

Speaker 2 Who are they? Who are they voting for in in the 2024 election? As their Audis. Okay.

Speaker 2 As their Audis.

Speaker 2 Their Innies know what's happening. I'm not letting you off the hook.
But their Audis votes.

Speaker 3 They all voted for Kamala.

Speaker 2 I don't think that's true. Ellie definitely voted for Trump.

Speaker 3 No, you're right. Helena, yeah.
Helena.

Speaker 2 So whatever. Helena.

Speaker 3 Definitely Helena went for Trump, for sure.

Speaker 2 The other three for

Speaker 2 Kamala. Ben Stiller, thank you so much for taking all the time.
Everybody, go watch Severance. If you are watching it, listen to the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam.
It is delightful.

Speaker 2 And do you have anything else you want to promote? Anything else you're selling?

Speaker 3 I do not. I'm just, you know, I'm going to keep listening to your podcast, keep doing your thing.
I thought the episode you had with Jon Favreau, you know, post-election was great.

Speaker 3 I got emotional listening to that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, thanks. I kind of feel like when I get those bros over on my pod, I kind of want to let their hair down a little more and like give, you know, kind of, they're not worried that

Speaker 2 the audience might get mad. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And uh so we got him to let loose yeah we had like 18 minutes of just like his inner anger came out and for for he's he's kind of a vulcan you know so like getting his inner anger out i thought was i i enjoyed it so i'm glad you did um do you want to talk about the nuggets or the next at all oh fuck we were supposed to talk about that okay let's do it really quick all right next what how do you how do you feel i feel the knicks feel really good um obviously

Speaker 3 i mean the this trade deadline is imminent right you're not going to do anything i i don't think so i think mitchell Robinson is our sort of like in place of the trade deadline, is he's going to, you know, come back and start playing for us.

Speaker 3 I feel really good. I feel like the Knicks are starting to gel.
And, you know, Jalen Brunson has like changed the culture.

Speaker 2 They are so fun to watch. And Cat in New York, huge.
I was like, is this really going to work? Because he's kind of an eccentric guy in the big New York media. And he's like thriving.

Speaker 3 It's crazy. I had the same concern.
I didn't know what was going to happen. And just seeing him, and we started calling Brunson Cap.
And it's started like just right from the get-go, they bonded.

Speaker 3 And he's having a career year. He's had a little issues because he hurt his thumb, but I feel like I love Tibbs.
I'm all in with Tibbs. He's playing the starters less minutes.

Speaker 3 It's, you know, it's in a good trajectory.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's good. I mean, I don't want to jinx you, so I won't say that I'm rooting for the next because my rooting interests, with the obvious one Nuggets exception, usually don't turn out that well.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I've got my Donovan Mitchell hate from our bubble jazz nuggets rivalry days, so I can't be for the cavs okay f the celtics obviously yes f the sixers obviously so i don't know the knicks are kind of like in a weird way it's like new york so usually you know like the yankees are always hated but the knicks are kind of like the lovable team i think even for people that aren't like knicks fans like you they're very accessible they're good guys they don't have a lot of attitude at all you know they're just like regular funny guys and uh josh hart come on josh hart there's like no one better did you go to the games growing up like i did so so what what era would that that have been, Ewing?

Speaker 3 I was there at eight years old in 1973.

Speaker 2 Did Clyde Frazier have been on that team already? 73? Oh, man. You look great, man.
I wouldn't have pegged you for going back to Earl Monroe, Clyde Frazier era.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So I remember, you know, my dad taking me and it was like, I remember what that felt like.
So it's been a long time.

Speaker 2 It has been a long time. We're ready.

Speaker 3 Like, we're really ready. And then obviously the late 90s, I was living in LA in the late 90s and wasn't really there that much.

Speaker 3 But as a teenager through Bernard King era, I was there and it was, he was my guy. I feel like this year, next year, these are going to be great years.

Speaker 2 Now I'm worried about you. I'm worried about the letdown.
Like the crash might be kind of hard if it doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but I've gone through, I mean, nothing can hurt me because I've been through the pain.

Speaker 2 What did you think about the Luca trade?

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 I feel like

Speaker 3 I don't understand it. I don't understand why they would do that.

Speaker 2 Is it possible that Nico the GM was severed from what was happening on the basketball court when he was making the deal with the Lakers?

Speaker 3 It was like a weird Rob Polinka, Nico, yeah, like dual severance things. I don't know what was going on there.
I don't understand it.

Speaker 3 And I like Dallas a lot. And I think weirdly, maybe the Mavericks might do well in the short term.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I did too.

Speaker 3 But, I mean, Luca is Luca.

Speaker 2 I mean, they definitely are scarier against the Nuggets this year for like the year 2025, having AD and those two centers that they got. Like they got a lot of size to throw at Jokic.

Speaker 2 That's how the Timberwolves beat us. So I kind of don't want to draw them in the playoffs this year, but it's still insane long-term.

Speaker 3 Right. And then you've got the Spurs now with Fox and Lembignon.
I mean, it's shifted a little bit.

Speaker 2 The West's going to be tough. I don't know.
It'll be interesting. I don't know about the Luca-LeBron pairing, but long-term, Luca is going to be unbelievable there.

Speaker 2 It's just, I don't know, how do the Lakers get so effing like this? The Lakers are the Lakers.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they seem to.

Speaker 2 You know, if we weren't in a simulation, if the NBA wasn't rigged, like if every once in a while, you know, bat, like karma hit people that deserve to get bad karma for once, what would happen would be Luca is like, I didn't agree to go to the Lakers.

Speaker 2 I don't really like LA. I'm pasty-skinned.
It's too much glitz and glamour for me. I love my boy Jokic.
I'm going to sign with the nuggets when my contract expires. That would be...

Speaker 2 We never get to have nice things like that. Like, you know, it's a smaller market team getting a free agent, but I don't see that happening for us.

Speaker 3 Well, nobody got a chance at Luca.

Speaker 3 This happened in the dead of night, this deal, this weird severed deal.

Speaker 2 I think it was a severe deal.

Speaker 2 There have been a lot of conspiracy theories out there, but I think that like Nico just maybe seeing Luca looking fat in like, maybe in like the office building, but then it's a, it's, he gets, his brain gets severed when he's watching the court.

Speaker 2 It's like a different thing than when he's meeting with them. And he's like, why is this fat guy the best player on our team? I need to get somebody else.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And also like, you know, you can get in shape.
He's 25. Like, if someone, someone, it seems like everybody's afraid to say, oh, you know, we want you to be in shape more.

Speaker 2 It's crazy. I love that Rosillo and his sports body is like, he, Luca could be smoking cigarettes on the bench, and I still would not have made this trade.
Well, it's true. The guy is incredible.

Speaker 2 So he's incredible. All right.
I'm glad that was a good prompt. Thank you.
You're in charge of the show now. Come back anytime.
I really appreciate it. Thanks, man.
All right.

Speaker 2 Benso, everybody, go listen to the Severance podcast. We'll be back here tomorrow.
We're going to have to talk more about the news tomorrow. I'm sorry.
We'll be back here tomorrow.

Speaker 2 We'll see y'all then. Peace.

Speaker 2 Cut up

Speaker 2 or crack up.

Speaker 2 I breakthrough just enough to let up,

Speaker 2 to let go.

Speaker 2 Pass it by.

Speaker 2 And I know how to feel. Red off the hot feel.
Every mind is a steal.

Speaker 2 Every moment in my bath, just a moment to real.

Speaker 2 I won't wait for another today.

Speaker 2 I will hold you in for me and say.

Speaker 2 Listen close, let enough, let enough.

Speaker 2 Pass it by for me to take it out.

Speaker 2 Passing by, so I play inside all.

Speaker 2 What to take,

Speaker 2 can I go?

Speaker 2 Passage doesn't without hope. Passage doesn't without hope.
What's your self-cannot here? What's your hear, that's hard to know.

Speaker 2 Passage doesn't without hope. Passage doesn't or without hope.

Speaker 2 The Bullworth Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Bratt.

Speaker 2 This is Matt Rogers from Los Culturists with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Culture Ristos with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
Hey, Bowen, it's gift season.

Speaker 2 Stressing me out. Why are the people I love so hard to shop for? Probably because they only make boring gift guides that are totally uninspired.
Except for the guide we made.

Speaker 2 In partnership with Marshalls, where premium gifts meet incredible value, it's giving gifts. With categories like best gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto.

Speaker 2 Or best gifts for me that were so thoughtful I really shouldn't have. Check out the guide on marshalls.com and gift the good stuff at marshalls.

Speaker 4 Even though severe cases cases can be rare, respiratory syncytial virus, or RSV, is still the leading cause of hospitalization in babies under one.

Speaker 4 RSV often begins like a cold or the flu, but can quickly spread to your baby's lungs. Ask your doctor about preventative antibodies for your baby this season and visit protectagainstrsv.com.

Speaker 4 The information presented is for general educational purposes only. Please ask your healthcare provider about any questions regarding your health or your baby's health.

Speaker 4 Even when you're playing music,

Speaker 4 you're always listening to your baby, especially when RSV is on your mind.

Speaker 4 Baphortis, Nursevimab ALIP, is the first and only long-acting preventative antibody that gives babies the RSV antibodies they lack.

Speaker 4 Baphortis is a prescription medicine used to help prevent serious lung disease caused by RSV or respiratory syncytial virus in babies under age one born during or entering their first RSV season and children up to 24 months who remain at risk of severe RSV disease through their second RSV season.

Speaker 4 Your baby shouldn't receive Baphortis if they have a history of serious allergic reactions to Baphortis, nursevimab ALIP, or any of its ingredients.

Speaker 4 Tell your baby's doctor about any medicines they're taking and all their medical conditions, including bleeding or bruising problems. Serious allergic reactions have happened.

Speaker 4 Get medical help right away if your child has any of the following signs or symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, such as swelling of the face, mouth, or tongue, difficulty swallowing or breathing, unresponsiveness, bluish color of skin, lips, or underfingernails, muscle weakness, severe rash, hives, or itching.

Speaker 4 Most common side effects include rash and pain, swelling, or hardness at their injection site. Individual results may vary.
Ask your baby's doctor about Bayfortis.

Speaker 4 Visit Bayfortis.com or call 1-855-BEFORTIS.