Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?

Speaker 1 This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culturalists with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Get ready for your next TV obsession, All's Fair.

Speaker 1 Starring Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts, Nici Nash Betts, Tayana Taylor, with Sarah Poulson, and Glenn Close. A team of fierce female divorce attorneys leave a male-dominated firm to start their own.

Speaker 1 Filled with scandalous secrets and shifting allegiances both in the courtroom and within their own ranks, these ladies know that lawyers are a girl's best friend.

Speaker 1 Don't miss All's Fair, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers.

Speaker 2 Terms apply.

Speaker 3 Even though severe cases can be rare, respiratory syncytial virus, or RSV, is still the leading cause of hospitalization in babies under one.

Speaker 3 RSV often begins like a cold or the flu, but can quickly spread to your baby's lungs. Ask your doctor about preventative antibodies for your baby this season and visit protectagainstrsv.com.

Speaker 3 The information presented is for general educational purposes only.

Speaker 2 Please ask your healthcare provider about any questions regarding your health or your baby's health.

Speaker 2 Hello, and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.
We got a mail back at the end, so stick around for that.

Speaker 2 Plus, I am just delighted to be here with, you know, a very bulwark-you Congresswoman. She's from New Jersey and just launched her campaign for governor.

Speaker 2 In Congress, she's a member of the House Armed Services Committee. She's also a former U.S.
Navy helicopter pilot and a former prosecutor. Much to discuss.
It's Mikey Sherrill.

Speaker 2 How are you doing, Congresswoman?

Speaker 6 I'm doing great. How are you? You said not great.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I've been better.
I've been better. You're doing great.
Is that really true? Or is that politicians?

Speaker 6 No, you know what? I probably should say, world-adjusted. I'm doing great.
I just

Speaker 6 had a wonderful Thanksgiving. My daughter is in the Navy.
She's at the Naval Academy Prep School. So she was just home and I saw her.
And then I just announced I'm running for governor.

Speaker 6 So I'm very excited about that. It's, I'm sort of, you know, an action-oriented person.
So in the wake of the election, having

Speaker 6 a mission, a plan, it just felt good, I have to say.

Speaker 2 I hear that.

Speaker 2 I also am an action-oriented person and it's been advice I've been giving folks, you know, because I get messages from people who are like unreasonably quite broken, right, and quite down about what happened in the election and scared.

Speaker 2 But they want to do something, right? And it's like, what can we do? Like, the reality is, like, at a national level, it's, it's kind of tough at this point.

Speaker 2 And you can contact, we'll talk a little about Pete Hegseth in a bit, our

Speaker 2 DOD designate, at least for the moment. Who knows if that'll be true at the end of the day.
So you can call your senator or whatever.

Speaker 2 But I've been saying, honestly, find stuff locally to get involved in. But I don't know.
Do you have advice for people can't decide to run for governor but are looking for things to things to do

Speaker 6 yeah I think you're exactly right we have to find those pathways for what we can do what change that we can affect and there's the

Speaker 6 the is it the serenity prayer or the prayer of St.

Speaker 6 Francis that you know you've got to understand you know what you can change and what you can't change and knowing the difference and and I do think that that gives you a sense of purpose and direction if you look for those areas that you can truly make a difference.

Speaker 6 As I said, it's, you know, earlier, it's why I'm running for governor.

Speaker 6 I feel as if that is the area. And the states now, and this is a little bit new for Democrats, right?

Speaker 6 I think we had relied on the federal government to protect a lot of rights and freedoms of the Supreme Court. We are now looking to the states.
And I think it could be a very...

Speaker 6 good place for us to redirect the party to really focus on those issues that I always say, you know, what's that last thing keeping you up at night?

Speaker 6 You know, maybe if you're a mom and, you know, you can't sleep, is it, are you worried about your rent? Are you worried about your mortgage? Are you worried about your kids' mental health?

Speaker 6 Are you worried about your job? What is it that is that last thing that you're just lying awake thinking, how am I going to do this? And how can we address that? How can we move forward?

Speaker 6 Well, at the same time, I do think we need to relentlessly be the party of rights and freedoms as well. But I think we need to lead with our vision, and I think the election showed us that.

Speaker 6 I think we need to leave with a vision of how we're just going to make government work, how we're going to cut through red tape, how we're going to make sure that we are actually delivering for people.

Speaker 6 And I say that because I have to tell you, you know, when I started running for Congress, People said, oh, why do you want to be in the House? You can't get anything done.

Speaker 6 You're going to be a freshman. You know, why bother?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 6 And, you know, I don't come from that place.

Speaker 6 I think, you know, coming from the military, having that background, having that training, you know, it's never an option in the United States military to say, you know, the military doesn't work.

Speaker 6 It's too hard. We're just going to give up today.
Let's all just, you know, skip the mission today and go take it easy. There's a saying, lead, follower, get out of the way.

Speaker 6 I mean, you have to choose where are you and how are you going to affect that change? And so, to say government just doesn't work, so let's give up, that to me is just not an option.

Speaker 6 And so, you know, I went into Congress and in only my second term, I was named the most effective lawmaker in the New Jersey House delegation.

Speaker 6 And again, it reminded me of that when I decided to run for governor. A lot of people said, Mikey, don't do it.
You know,

Speaker 6 you know, you can't get anything done. It's too broken.
The budget's too tough. New Jersey transit's such a mess.
You're just going to, it's just going to be bad for you.

Speaker 6 It's going to make you look bad because government can't function.

Speaker 6 And I just looked at that and I thought, I'm not, you know, I'm not here because I don't get involved in public service because I'm thinking, oh my gosh,

Speaker 6 is this going to make me look good?

Speaker 6 You know, am I going to get down to Trenton and suddenly be like, oh, wow, I'm in public service because I truly believe that well-run government can make people's lives better.

Speaker 6 That we have a duty to deliver for people.

Speaker 6 That when people are lying awake at night thinking of the things that are really problematic for them, that in the back of their mind, if they have a good governor of their state, they're thinking, but you know what?

Speaker 6 Mikey said she was really going to work hard on addressing this. And I'm going to.
I'm going to go to bed now.

Speaker 6 And I'm just going to hope that tomorrow is better than today because I know that she's got this and she's going to take care of this. So I can take this off my plate.

Speaker 6 And here's a million other worries I have, but this one,

Speaker 6 I know we have a good leader here that's going to really focus on how she's going to make sure that

Speaker 6 my life's a little bit easier tomorrow.

Speaker 2 So I think that that all is smart and right for a run for governor.

Speaker 2 I do wonder how you think about this running for governor in a blue state, in a place where the state moved towards Trump, at least at the presidential level and the results.

Speaker 2 I think you're seeing people migrating out of blue states towards red states. And you're seeing people that have concerns about cost of living in blue states.

Speaker 2 And, you know, you're running as a Democrat, the state's been run by Democrats.

Speaker 2 Like, how do you make the pitch that like you have something to offer to solve these problems in a place where the party's been in control for a while?

Speaker 6 Yeah. So I think, unlike some other states, in 2023, we actually had our population grow in New Jersey.
And I know,

Speaker 6 believe me,

Speaker 6 I live in the world. I hear what people say about our beloved state, but we love it.
And obviously, others are moving in and want to be in the Jewish people.

Speaker 2 You're saying people moved to New Jersey in 2023? Yeah. To New Jersey.
They're like,

Speaker 2 I've got anywhere I can go. I'm going to jump in.
I know.

Speaker 6 I mean, look at that. See? See, this is what we're up against.
This is what we're up against. But I have to say, New Jersey is a fantastic state.
It's a wonderful state just because of all it offers.

Speaker 6 It's an innovative state. It's an exciting state.
It's a great place to raise a family. It has some of the best public school systems in the nation.
You know, so people love New Jersey.

Speaker 6 It's one of the states, actually, that traditionally has the most intergenerational families of any state in the nation, meaning that people who are born in the state and raise a family in the state want to retire in the state.

Speaker 6 Some of that is being broken, though, just for the very reasons you're pointing out. A lot of it's cost of living.
And so we're seeing the cautionary tales of other blue states.

Speaker 6 We're not going to be able to continue to run the great economy that we've been successful at running, whether it's in some of our health care sectors, our pharmaceutical sectors, our medical device sector, our defense space sector, our space sector.

Speaker 6 I mean, these are all growing places, and they run in New Jersey because we have one of the most talented workforces in the nation. And that is a gift.
I mean, that is great that we have that.

Speaker 6 But if we don't address affordability, if we don't address cost of living we are going to very quickly see the problems that we're seeing in other blue states and we've already seen those problems in the electorate as they're weighing in and saying you know it's just getting too hard here and how is it that in the richest country in the world, in one of the richest states in the nation, I'm having such a hard time getting by.

Speaker 6 And so that is what we need to address. And that's what I've constantly been focused on in Congress.

Speaker 6 So whether it's housing affordability, the legislation I have around grocery store prices, child care costs, all of this is directed at lowering costs for everyday families.

Speaker 6 And that is what we have to really truly address, or we are going to see pretty quickly a lot of the problems you just discussed in other blue states.

Speaker 2 I will say that my colleague Jonathan last did move to New Jersey recently. He pretends he's in New York, though.
And my college bestie was from Cherry Hill and pretended like he was from Philly.

Speaker 2 So that seems to be another problem that you have to address as governor of New Jersey.

Speaker 2 Banning people from pretending like they're in New York.

Speaker 2 Exactly. How dare they own Jersey? How dare they? Is it intractable though? And it's easy to say, oh, well, yeah, it's a four, like affordability is a problem.

Speaker 2 Like affordability is a problem across all these major metros, across most of the blue states. How do you do it? Like, how do you change it? I particularly own housing, I guess.

Speaker 6 I mean, build more is the start, right? So New Jersey has some legislation and court decisions around affordable housing.

Speaker 6 And so there's building requirements for affordable housing, but generally in our state, how developers do that is they build luxury apartment buildings and then they have several affordable housing units within that.

Speaker 6 But what we have in the state largely is this missing middle. So when I look at my town, I'm in Montclair.

Speaker 6 When I look at my town and try to think of when in my naval career I could have afforded anything in Montclair, New Jersey, it wasn't when I was an ensign. It wasn't when I was a lieutenant JG.

Speaker 6 It wasn't when I was lieutenant, right? I'm not sure if there was a time while I was in the Navy that I could have afforded to live in my town.

Speaker 6 If my kids want to move back after their careers or after they get out of college, I don't know where they're going to live other than, you know, my home.

Speaker 2 Which I'm sure you're thrilled about.

Speaker 6 I actually, I want to, you know, I'm sad my daughter's gone, but a lot of people might want some independence and have their own place.

Speaker 6 I'm not sure my kids would be thrilled with moving back home as much as I'd like it. But

Speaker 6 so, you know, where are people going to afford? And then if you're a senior and you're trying to figure out, you know, I'd love to sell this home I'm in, but where are you going to move?

Speaker 6 Where are the kind of missing middle homes? How are we going to keep families there? How are we going to keep the workforce going? How are kids going to move off their parents' couches?

Speaker 6 That is all really too hard. And what that does, too, is then that puts higher pressure on the rental market.

Speaker 6 And so we're seeing people, you know, I heard of a woman who was telling me that someone in her office who she employs who makes a really good salary and just had to move to a different town because the rents got too high and she had two dot school-aged kids.

Speaker 6 So that's like pulling them out of their school system and moving to another one. So I say you start

Speaker 6 with some of these housing prices and you've got to start by building.

Speaker 6 And when we look at the fact that in New Jersey, we're about 150,000 home units short of where we need to be to continue to move the workforce into the state and continue to innovate and move the jobs forward.

Speaker 6 That's a huge issue, especially when you compare it to places like Florida that have an overabundance of homes. And so, you know, here's the thing.
I mean, maybe you make a calculation.

Speaker 6 You know, am I worried about my rights and freedoms in Florida?

Speaker 6 Sure, but do I really want to afford a home with a backyard and a swimming pool versus a, you know, small two-bedroom apartment with my three kids?

Speaker 6 You know, maybe that's a trade you take for obvious reasons.

Speaker 2 Speaking of Florida, my aforementioned colleague, Jonathan Last, wrote a newsletter recently about

Speaker 2 a provocative notion that is that a Democratic governor in one of these blue states during the Trump years is going to have to be a DeSantis of the left.

Speaker 2 And I know that shudder to even think that that might be you,

Speaker 6 that is not the moniker I'm going for, but the DeSantis of the left.

Speaker 2 But someone that is just diligent diligent about taking on the administration and building a power center from the states since the Democrats aren't going to have one nationally.

Speaker 2 I just wonder what you just, I mean, obviously not about being like Ron DeSantis, but what you think about this notion of what role will the Democratic governors have in combating the Trump administration?

Speaker 6 I think it's so key. I think it's both.

Speaker 6 combating the excesses of the Trump administration, combating the bad economic decisions of the Trump administration, because people forget with the chaos that he engenders how really economically tough it can be on families.

Speaker 6 So whether you're talking about in my state the state and local tax deduction cap or if you're talking about the failure to fund the Gateway Tunnel project as our transit system kept imploding or you're talking about some of the attacks on the health care system so we couldn't move forward in driving down costs there, he was really impacting families.

Speaker 6 And now he is, you know, with some of the discussion that he's had on tariffs and the discussions that he's had on how he is going to lead, that could very easily cost families thousands and thousands of dollars.

Speaker 6 If he's going to deport everyone, as he suggests, beyond some of the real fears that families have about their loved ones, you're also talking about how are we going to run our economy.

Speaker 6 That's why, you know, I've always been a fan of comprehensive immigration reform, making sure we have security at the border, processing at the border, but also pathways to citizenships for people who are working in our economy.

Speaker 6 So these things are going to be huge hits on everyday people. So a strong governor is going to need to punch back, and a strong governor is going to need to stand in the breach there and say no.

Speaker 6 to me it's not just about pushing back that is not enough to say oh i'm going to be a strong defender of our values in the state and of running the state economy in the wake of the chaos coming out of washington that's not visionary that's not future focus.

Speaker 6 You know, that might be something that people say, well, great, for four years, maybe things won't get worse here, but how are things going to get better?

Speaker 2 That's my pitch. That's why I'm not running for governor.
That's my pitch. For four years, maybe things won't get worse.
I think that seems great to me, actually, if that's true, but I hear you.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I think Democrats have to have a vision, and I think it's through the Democratic governors. And I actually think that could be very good for our party.
I think we have a really strong bench.

Speaker 6 I think we have people that have created successful administrations and have done things that are very popular with people and have really impacted change. I think we have to come together.

Speaker 6 What is that vision of the democratic governors of this country and how do we execute it together?

Speaker 7 Amazon has everything for everyone on your list.

Speaker 8 Like your husband who hauls out the 40-pound canister vacuum to address a single dropped popcorn kernel.

Speaker 7 He'll spend 12 minutes setting up, plugging in, and maneuvering.

Speaker 5 It's like using a fire hose to water a houseplant.

Speaker 7 Get him a cordless vacuum, and with Amazon early holiday deals, you can save big on home electronics. Now Dustin can skip the project planning phase and go straight to tactical crumb elimination.

Speaker 4 Even when you're playing music,

Speaker 4 you're always listening to your baby, especially when RSV is on your mind.

Speaker 4 Bifortis, Nursevimab ALIP, is the first and only long-acting preventative antibody that gives babies the RSV antibodies they lack.

Speaker 4 Bifortis is a prescription medicine used to help prevent serious lung disease caused by RSV or respiratory syncytial virus in babies under age one born during or entering their first RSV season and children up to 24 months who remain at risk of severe RSV disease through their second RSV season.

Speaker 4 Your baby shouldn't receive Baportis if they have a history of serious allergic reactions to Baportis, nursevimab ALIP, or any of its ingredients.

Speaker 4 Tell your baby's doctor about any medicines they're taking and all their medical conditions, including bleeding or bruising problems. Serious allergic reactions have happened.

Speaker 4 Get medical help right away if your child has any of the following signs or symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, such as swelling of the face, mouth, or tongue, difficulty swallowing or breathing, unresponsiveness, bluish color of skin, lips, or underfingernails, muscle weakness, severe rash, hives, or itching.

Speaker 4 Most common side effects include rash and pain, swelling, or hardness at their injection site. Individual results may vary.

Speaker 5 Ask your baby's doctor about Bayfortis.

Speaker 4 Visit Bayfortis.com or call 1-855-BEFORTIS.

Speaker 2 I want to get to what's happened in the news and start with Heg Seth.

Speaker 2 So you've nominated this. This is just the most preposterous nomination, like on its face.
I mean, this person is a weekend talk show host in his personal life. It's a total disaster.

Speaker 2 He's shown horrible judgment at every step of his life. The idea that he's running the military is ridiculous.

Speaker 2 But specifically, like a perspective that you have, being a veteran, having a daughter in service, you've spoken out against... women in combat, women in the military.

Speaker 2 And so I just, I'm wondering what your reactions are to the nomination and to his past statements about women in the military.

Speaker 6 It's such an incredible slap in the face to every woman who has served. You know, I've spoken to friends of mine I graduated from the Naval Academy with.

Speaker 6 I've spoken to Marine Corps veterans and aviators.

Speaker 6 You know, I've spoken to women who work closely with like the Lioness squads who were the squads that helped clear homes and got valuable intelligence information from the women in the homes that they were clearing.

Speaker 6 I I mean, I've spoken to so many people, and I think

Speaker 6 until

Speaker 6 this

Speaker 6 nomination, there was this sense

Speaker 6 that things were on such strong ground. I mean, we've had, you know, from my class, the first female commanding officer of an aircraft carrier.

Speaker 6 We now have the first female superintendent, the first female chief of naval operations.

Speaker 6 And all of that tracks back to when I graduated from the academy 30 years ago, and the combat restrictions on ships and aircraft were lifted.

Speaker 6 Because you can't fully participate in the military as somebody who's going to be competitive if you don't go into combat, if you don't go on a combatant ship, if you don't go into combat aircraft, if you aren't on the ground in combat.

Speaker 6 And by the way, this idea that somehow combat is like trench warfare and here's the combat line for the the men, and the women are back there as the nurses. I mean, that is so antiquated.

Speaker 6 The way we fight today is so different from that. And combat is sort of these combatant roles are enmeshed in so many different ways in so many different positions.

Speaker 6 So, you know, we go from when I was at the Naval Academy to the chief of naval operations, who was a submariner, when someone stood up at a brigade meeting and stood up and said, When are you going to let women on submarines?

Speaker 6 And he derisively said, Not in my lifetime, to a standing ovation

Speaker 6 to actually the USS New Jersey being the first fast-attack purpose-built sub to have women on board you know that felt to me like like wow such a momentous thing and and yes I am very proud it's named the USS New Jersey so I mean that's such movement and progress and and when you see everything you know I was speaking to somebody who was telling me at the Naval Academy some of the women there are are so physically fit and in such great shape and and such leaders that some of the men there say, Oh, I'm gonna go work out with her because she's gonna help me get in shape.

Speaker 6 Like, I wanna be in six shape, so she's a beast. I'm gonna go do that kind of thing.

Speaker 6 And so, you know, we're seeing such great leadership, such great opportunities, such exciting stuff going on in our force. And that is how we have a ready force.
And to see somebody

Speaker 6 who just sees women in the role of, as I guess he said at one of his jobs, which he was, of course, let go from, party girls or not party girls, who, you know, has credible assault allegations, who had to be carried out of a group team meeting.

Speaker 6 And by the way, the group team meeting at, I think, in his leadership was taking place at a strip club because of his intoxication. You know, you're just looking at somebody.

Speaker 2 Why?

Speaker 6 Why? Like, it just feels like such a really an F you to women.

Speaker 6 It's like, I am putting this particular person up for this role because I just want to, you know, I just want to show how little I respect the service of women.

Speaker 6 I just want it to be clear to everyone that I, you know, totally feel this disregard for women. That, that's what it feels like.
It feels like a gut punch.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And isn't it, it's a disrespect for everybody.

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't know while we're taping this, Pete Hag says, mommy is currently on Fox and Friends trying to walk back an email she sent where she called him an abuser of women. It's humiliating.

Speaker 2 Isn't this just humiliating? Could you imagine being

Speaker 2 a general, a three-star, a four-star, and you have to go report to this guy?

Speaker 2 This is preposterous. There are 3 million people that he would be in charge of in the Department of Defense.
This has got to be the most preposterous nomination in the history of the country.

Speaker 6 You know, this is

Speaker 6 to their credit. I mean, this is why I'm so impressed often with people who join our military because there is something

Speaker 6 very much in the line of public service about it. You don't join the military because you're going to get rich.
You don't join the military to make a million dollars.

Speaker 6 You, in fact, join the military to do some really grueling work for some really bad pay and some really yucky places, right? But you do it because you have this sense of pride.

Speaker 6 And you do it because you want to protect people, because you want to protect the nation, because you want to protect our values, because you care about the Constitution.

Speaker 6 And so I will tell you, I have not heard one person in the military say, oh, I don't want a Pete Hegseth to be there because it would be, you know, humiliating and degrading to report to him.

Speaker 6 It certainly wouldn't.

Speaker 2 No, it would. No, it would.

Speaker 6 Let's be clear. However, what I hear is their deep fear for the security of the nation.
So if he is intoxicated and

Speaker 6 you know, we're talking about whether or not Russia has just launched a nuke or what's going on in Taiwan in the middle of the night like or you know a ship being attacked in the straits of Hormuz who's making decisions then and oh by the way

Speaker 6 I have been in the situation room to talk about concerns I've had under a Trump administration with the president not reading his presidential briefing book.

Speaker 6 The excuse for not addressing something was, oh, he didn't read it. So who's in charge here of our national security? Who's in charge of our defense? Who's making those decisions?

Speaker 6 And who's getting in the president's ear to make these decisions? And if it's Pete Hegseth, I think we're all in a great deal of trouble.

Speaker 2 We've been to that. All right.
I guess it's official now, a very narrow House majority because of the victory in the last California seat. New Congressman Gray, your new colleague, Democrat.

Speaker 2 Means it's a 220 to 215 House majority for Republicans. Democrats picked up one seat, but several Republicans will be gone for a few months because they're replacing them.

Speaker 2 There's two Florida seats in particular. Aren't going to have special elections till April.
So they'll have literally one or two seats. I just wonder how you think about that in the House.

Speaker 2 Like it's going to be very challenging for the Republicans to get anything done. Should the Democrats just be letting them die on the vine, figuring it out themselves?

Speaker 2 Should you be recruiting Mike Lawler or some of these guys to try to, you know, create some gang gang of whatever in the middle? How are you thinking about navigating the situation?

Speaker 6 It's so fast. I mean, should we? Maybe yes, right?

Speaker 6 Maybe the answer should be let them die on the vine. Show the nation what true.

Speaker 6 Republican majority actually looks like if left to their own devices. It's just not how we're built, right?

Speaker 6 Like I can't sit there and watch somebody take our country down because it's not a zero-sum game. Maybe it should be.
Maybe I should think of it as a zero-sum game. Republicans lose, Democrats win.

Speaker 6 I don't. We all lose, right? If the House of Representatives isn't functioning in any way, shape, or form, we all lose.
We have to keep the government open. We have to engage in that too.

Speaker 6 Are you sure?

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 are you sure?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 6 I mean, I'm already frustrated. It sounds like we're going to have a continuing resolution.
So, first of all, that's just,

Speaker 6 you know, when you come from the armed services world and the national security world, that is such a huge waste of money, at the very least for the Department of Defense.

Speaker 6 You can't have new start programs. You can't continue some of the ongoing programs to restart them once the new budget gets passed is a huge cost.

Speaker 6 And we're doing all this as we're desperately trying to innovate and trying to meet the challenges of a really complicated world. So it's just a really horrible way to run a railroad.

Speaker 6 But where we're at is, you know, we are now, you know, we're going to see Republicans with some reconciliation bills, some bites at the apple of just having, passing huge pieces of legislation through the Senate with a simple majority, we're really putting a lot

Speaker 6 of ability to get an agenda done in their hands. So just kind of,

Speaker 6 you know,

Speaker 6 not engaging

Speaker 6 or letting them fail.

Speaker 6 I think would really be a disservice. I think it would allow them to run with a very bad agenda.

Speaker 6 I think failing is maybe part of the agenda of some in the Republican Party, meaning that they don't like government and they just sort of want government to implode.

Speaker 6 So allowing that to happen would just seem to meet some of the agenda on the far right.

Speaker 6 But then the question is, what do we do? You know, how do we keep moving forward in a way that keeps the country running and

Speaker 6 tries to block as much of a bad agenda as possible? And that's a tough one. I mean, it's really tough.
You know, I go back and forth.

Speaker 6 I didn't enter Congress to enter into the least productive Congress in the history of the nation, right? That was not my agenda. I told you I'm an action-oriented person.

Speaker 2 I think your agenda for this year should be trying to beat that record. Right?

Speaker 6 Well, that's the other side, right? Like, I'm like, well, but if they're unproductive, at least they're not getting a really incredibly bad agenda passed that's going to, you know, punish women and,

Speaker 6 you know, roll back environmental protections in the wake of climate change and, you know, defund some of the infrastructure programs that are so important to roads and bridges and tunnels, et cetera.

Speaker 6 So, yes, but it's going to be a really delicate balance.

Speaker 6 I have to say that Hakeem Jeffries, I think, has been masterful for the last Congress at trying to navigate through these landmines and trying to keep pressure on the speaker for the Democratic agenda, even in a Republican majority.

Speaker 6 And I think we'll continue to press forward on that.

Speaker 2 All right, real quick, I got to ask you about the Hunter pardon. Do you have any thoughts about that you want to share?

Speaker 6 You know, here we have a Trump administration that is purporting to go after political enemies.

Speaker 6 And so you're, you know, it's not like we're doing this or the president's looking at this in a vacuum and what might be coming and might the justice system really function well in the future with Cash Patel as the head of the FBI, for example.

Speaker 6 And yet

Speaker 6 At the same time, it does just undermine the credibility and faith in the Justice Department and faith in our leaders.

Speaker 6 And so I look at this, and this is why it just seems like we need a new generation of leaders. We need a fresh perspective.

Speaker 6 We need people who are committed to public service and who are going to put the country first and going to relentlessly advocate for people and advocate for our institutions so people can have faith in them.

Speaker 6 And so

Speaker 6 this flies in the face of all of that. And that's why, you know, I think people are just looking at our government and saying, kind of a pox on all their houses.

Speaker 6 You know, this is just nobody's credible. Nobody's trustworthy.
Nobody stands by their word. Nobody does what they say they're going to do.
And,

Speaker 6 you know, again, it's why I just keep going forward, trying to rebuild that faith and that credibility, you know, committing to serve people and then doing it.

Speaker 6 And just kind of again and again and again and trying to build that faith back for people. people.

Speaker 2 Marking you down as an, I get it, but

Speaker 2 fair enough. Fair enough.

Speaker 2 Let's move on. All right, my final question.
Very excited about this one. I don't know if you've seen this.

Speaker 2 J.D. Vance's blog from 2005.
Do you know any reading of J.D. Vance's 2005 blog in your spare time?

Speaker 6 You'll be surprised to hear, no, I have not.

Speaker 2 Well, he wrote about an emotional day where he felt more like a female than he ever has or will.

Speaker 2 And he explains that it happened when he was watching the movie Garden State and that he can no longer watch it because New Jersey's landscape is so much like Ohio's, and the music is so relevant to my life right now.

Speaker 2 So I'm wondering if you and JD have ever bonded over

Speaker 2 the movie The Garden State, and if you have a Garden State soundtrack song or memory that you'd like to share. Wow.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 6 This is why, when you said you had a surprise question for me at the end,

Speaker 6 I knew to dread it.

Speaker 6 My instincts were correct.

Speaker 6 I have not watched Garden State in many moons. I have fond memories of it.
It did hit a chord.

Speaker 6 I didn't really genderize the chord it hit

Speaker 2 necessarily.

Speaker 6 But I will, now I feel like

Speaker 6 I have to, at a minimum, I may not commit to re-watching it right this second, but at a minimum, I'm going to put that playlist on spotify so i'll get back to you i'll get back to you on that one yeah go put that spotify playlist on there's some good ones i i was listening to it this morning and i was like oh

Speaker 2 two shins tracks anyway it's a good it's a good playlist

Speaker 2 it was a moment for us for us elder millennials all right mikey cheryl good luck in the governor's race please keep us posted and and let's keep an open dialogue on that uh on the on on how much we should uh be giving to the republicans over there in the house huh sounds good Thanks so much.

Speaker 2 All right. We'll see you soon.
I'll wait. Actually, really quick.
Yes. Give us your website.
Oh, give us your website.

Speaker 6 www.mikeysheryl.com.

Speaker 2 There it is. Easy.
Up next, I got a mailbag for y'all. Stick around.

Speaker 7 Amazon has everything for everyone on your list, Like your husband who hauls out the 40-pound canister vacuum to address a single dropped popcorn kernel.

Speaker 7 He'll spend 12 minutes setting up, plugging in, and maneuvering.

Speaker 5 It's like using a fire hose to water a houseplant.

Speaker 7 Get him a cordless vacuum. And with Amazon early holiday deals, you can save big on home electronics.
Now Dustin can skip the project planning phase and go straight to tactical crumb elimination.

Speaker 9 There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Anibay sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price.

Speaker 9 Anibay has designed the only fully machine washable sofa from top to bottom. The stain-resistant performance fabric slip covers and cloud-like frame duvet can go straight into your wash.

Speaker 9 Perfect for anyone with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy-to-clean, spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style.

Speaker 9 Whether you need a single chair, love seat, or a luxuriously large sectional, Anabay has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home.

Speaker 9 Sofas start at just $699 and right now, get early access to Black Friday savings, up to 60% off store-wide, with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com.

Speaker 2 Add a little

Speaker 9 to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 2 All right, y'all, it is mailbag time. If you have a question, email BullworkPodcast at thebullwork.com.
I also enjoy the life advice questions.

Speaker 2 That's none of these that are coming up here, but if you have something you need a tip on or need a little advice for,

Speaker 2 happy to weigh in. I mean, you know.

Speaker 2 Who else would you turn to for advice besides me? All right, let's start here. Aaron in Florida.
Who has disappointed you more this year? The American Electorate or your LSU Tigers and Brian Kelly?

Speaker 2 Got to say the American Electorate. I still got faith.
I still got faith in the LSU Tigers. I I think that they will turn around.
Eight and four. It's felt like an 8-14 this year.

Speaker 2 We've got two questions. One from Alok, I hope I'm pronouncing that right.
And another from Andrew in San Francisco. It's basically the same question.

Speaker 2 Are there any opportunities for someone mid-career with limited political background to pivot into campaigns? I don't mind pay or status cuts.

Speaker 2 However, I don't know if or how I can break into that world at this point. Andrew's version of that question was he's on the cusp for turning 40 and contemplating a career change.

Speaker 2 Campaign politics is always something that's fascinated him. His dream job is a political strategist, but he worries it's too late to make such a drastic change.
So I'd say this, you know,

Speaker 2 the later it goes, the more drastic change it is. I just think we can be honest about that.
James Carwell didn't win his first race till he's 42. So there you go.
Hope Springs Eternal for everybody.

Speaker 2 I'd say definitely for people in their late 20s or 30s who are willing to take a pay cut and work their ass off.

Speaker 2 There are opportunities in campaigns, particularly out in America. This is not really the best moment, probably to sign up for a campaign, December 4th, right after a big election.
But

Speaker 2 as you look to our guest today, Mikey Sherrill, she's going to have a big campaign team in New Jersey.

Speaker 2 She has got five opponents, so they need a lot of staff in New Jersey if you happen to live there.

Speaker 2 Abigail Spanberger in Virginia is another friend of the pods, got to run in 2025 if you live in Virginia. If not, you're going to head to 2026.

Speaker 2 But the thing that I think people don't realize is campaign jobs out in America, particularly in

Speaker 2 whatever, less desirable places, either because it's not a top race or because people don't want to move there, campaign jobs are gettable, especially if you're going to demonstrate that you'll work hard, that you'll do whatever it takes, that you'll do annoying stuff.

Speaker 2 I mean, God, my early campaign jobs were doing phone banks, driving candidates around, and real mundane stuff.

Speaker 2 So if your ego does not get in the way and you're happy to do that, particularly at a local level, my observation is you can move up the chain at the local level.

Speaker 2 There's not a ton of competition, you know, particularly not in these biggest states.

Speaker 2 It might be a little different in Wisconsin or, you know, New Hampshire, like where they've got a lot of campaigns happening because it's a swing state or because it's an early primary state, but a lot of these other places.

Speaker 2 If you're competent, if you're willing to work hard, you can do it. Happy to be helpful.
Shoot me an email. Zach, anol and native now in D.C., what made you move to New Orleans?

Speaker 2 Well, A, we love New Orleans. I got married here.
My college besties are from Baton Rouge in New Orleans, which explains my LSU fandom and my love of this city. It's an amazing city.

Speaker 2 And so when we're looking for places to move, we've always wanted to move here. So it's been on the list.
But basically, the impetus was we're living in California during the pandemic.

Speaker 2 Pandemic ends, and both me and my husband have to go to D.C. and New York, I guess me, New York, him, D.C., a fair amount.
And, you know, we're on these red-eye flights that were pretty annoying.

Speaker 2 And it was too, too long away from the kid. I just didn't want to waste days on airplanes for no reason.
And so we made a little list of things that were our priorities for places we wanted to live.

Speaker 2 We would like to have had friends with kids there, friends or family with kids.

Speaker 2 We would like it to be easy to leave in the morning and get to DC or New York and maybe even get back that same day or be able to be back the next day very easily.

Speaker 2 We'd like there to be black people because we adopted Toulouse, who's black, and I didn't want her to be the only black kid in the classroom.

Speaker 2 And the little bonus, the little lanyap, as we say down here, was I didn't really want to have winter. After living in California, it was going to be tough to go back to winter.

Speaker 2 Really, the last three points made Denver a pretty tough call because the Denver airport sucks. And getting to the East Coast was going to also be terrible from Denver.

Speaker 2 Diversity, not exactly the best, though. That's, I think, changing a little bit.
And then, you know, winter goes till April. So

Speaker 2 New Orleans is the only place that checked all four boxes. We couldn't be happier.
It's been so great. Everybody's been so welcoming.
Couldn't recommend it more.

Speaker 2 Just met an empty nester yesterday who is a Bullwork podcast listener. Hey, what's up? Who moved down here and she felt the same way.

Speaker 2 So if you're an empty nester looking for someplace warm and spirited, culture-filled to live, come on down.

Speaker 2 Catherine asked, you've mentioned a few times you love to read fiction. And I was hoping you'd offer some book recs.
Reading Demon Copperhead right now, it is great. It's great.

Speaker 2 I'm way behind on this, but it's excellent.

Speaker 2 I was visiting family-in-laws in West Virginia, and this is based in the kind of part of Virginia, Western Virginia, that has a lot of cultural similarities to West Virginia.

Speaker 2 And so I felt like it was in theme to do it. Almost done.
I mean, it tugs at your heartstrings. It's rough.
But I kind of like to wallow in sad fiction. Speaking of which, theme as it ever was.

Speaker 2 It was a book I recently read that was wonderful. It was recommended by former podcast guest Jennifer Sr.

Speaker 2 You should go listen to the interview I did with her, by the way, Palter Prize winner. She's amazing.
I think it was around 4th of July this year.

Speaker 2 If you're a new podcast listener, i've got evergreen off the news interview about her stories that she's written uh jen is awesome and so is uh same as it ever was is a book to kind of remember what i've liked recently i popped on my little goodreads homegoing and long division were my last two five out of five star books uh love both of those gay fiction i love gay fiction uh here's a couple that nobody ever talks about if you look for some deep cuts three junes and guapa are two of my faves i've got a special shelf at home reserved only for diddian and baldwin so maybe we can do a didion and baldwin mailbag at some point in the future.

Speaker 2 So I hope some of those recs will

Speaker 2 warm your soul over the holidays. Jim asked, how did Dems become cool again? Dem used to be cool under Clinton and Obama, and now we're seen as Debbie Downers.

Speaker 2 I think this is a huge problem. And it seems silly and it seems kind of dumb that it has to matter whether somebody's cool or not.

Speaker 2 But is there a better explanation besides inflation for why Dems did so poorly among folks that don't pay attention to politics, other than they seem uncool and the Republican propaganda machine is more effective.

Speaker 2 I don't think so. And I think those are two key sub-elements of what is happening here.
And I think it's being part of the counterculture is important.

Speaker 2 Like getting people excited about something is important.

Speaker 2 I think that there's a chance for the Democrats to do that in the Trump years if they don't go the school marm route. And I think finding people that want to focus on how

Speaker 2 the the Republicans are dangerous, yes. They're extreme, yes.
They're also lame. They're lame.

Speaker 2 And, you know, the little weird hit, I think, got a lot of Democrats excited, but I don't know that it worked really for a lot of casuals.

Speaker 2 And I think that I was saying this during the campaign, elevating Mike Johnson.

Speaker 2 elevating some of these other guys. I just, there would not have been a cult around Ted Cruz.
There just wouldn't have been. We all know this.

Speaker 2 There would not have been a cult around Ted Cruz in the way that there is about Trump.

Speaker 2 There would not have been a group of people

Speaker 2 at an MMA fight like broing down with Ted Cruz. Like you can't row down with Ted Cruz.

Speaker 2 And so Democrats have to elevate the lame Republicans again. And Democrats have to be more chill.
I want to talk about this. I got an interview coming up.

Speaker 2 I got two interviews coming up, actually, that are going to get into this a little deeper, one with a Democratic strategist and one with one of my favorite commentators.

Speaker 2 So there'll be more to come on this. But I think that

Speaker 2 it's something to think about if you're a Democratic politician looking at 2028. All right, here's the last one.

Speaker 2 I got to do one more thing about Hunter. Sorry, guys.
If you don't want to listen to it, you can fast forward to the end and enjoy the Garden State soundtrack.

Speaker 2 I got several mailbag requests on this point that it's like, you would have pardoned your kid, right? You would have pardoned your kid.

Speaker 2 And that's an interesting question, actually.

Speaker 2 for people who care about this enough to think about it. Because this is like a flip way to handle that, right? That's like, well, anybody would have pardoned their kid, sure.

Speaker 2 And where you don't really actually think about it, like, where it's just like, that's like a truism.

Speaker 2 There's a flip way on the inverse. I saw some like conservatives in the inverse saying, no, actually, it doesn't help troubled children to just bail them out all the time.

Speaker 2 So there's a flip way to take it on the other side.

Speaker 2 There's a tongue-in-cheek element to this, but I also want to just, I like to do when the Republicans do crazy stuff, when they do conspiracies, I like to say, let's actually just walk through the conspiracy and pretend it's it's real.

Speaker 2 Let's just take it seriously. Let's take it seriously for a second.
Because I think when you do that, it reveals something. And so I want to take this thought seriously.

Speaker 2 Would I have pardoned my child if I was in Joe Biden's shoes?

Speaker 2 Like, obviously, everybody is a lying, right? You wouldn't pardon your pedophile child. You wouldn't pardon a child that killed somebody.

Speaker 2 I don't, I don't think, probably, depending on the circumstances. So, like, let's go through it.
What's the line? In this situation, I'm an 82-year-old president. That doesn't seem very realistic.

Speaker 2 So, maybe I'm an 82-year-old governor. How about that? Who the hell knows, right? Life is long.
I don't plan on running for office, but

Speaker 2 the future is a foreign land, as is the past. So in this case, I somehow am a 82-year-old governor leaving office.

Speaker 2 For this hypothetical to work, I also have to have adopted a second child, I guess, at some point in the future. So let's just pretend that happened.

Speaker 2 My first child, that I have right now, so I'm trying to find putting her in my mind's eye, becomes a crack cocaine addict, which I have empathy for. I have friends that have dealt with addiction.

Speaker 2 So, you know, there are ways that obviously we deal with that as a family. They don't pay back taxes for years and a decade, I think, actually.

Speaker 2 They don't pay rent either. They become a total deadbeat, try to barter with their art, art that is paid for by like my supporters, I guess.

Speaker 2 Maybe some of you, maybe some of you listeners would be paying for the, would be paying for my kids' art in this case in the future because you've just become diehard fans of me they also make some money by trading on my name with like some do-nothing jobs with shady foreign kind of companies and they make money that way and they kind of lie about me and kind of exaggerate their access and kind of use me to make money and and despite that despite the fact that they make millions doing that they still don't don't pay their rent or their taxes so okay so in that situation this is this is where we're at then around all this time my other child uh who's grown and and has a family of their own, dies tragically.

Speaker 2 And that's that's tough, you know. I'm thinking about that.
And then, just like what that would be like, it's kind of unimaginable, really. And so, you have some sympathy there.

Speaker 2 And then, you think about the fact that my surviving child has an affair with my deceased child's spouse and gets them into crack cocaine as well.

Speaker 2 And then, during that affair, they cheat on my dead child spouse

Speaker 2 with a stripper and have the stripper's child,

Speaker 2 but then decide they don't want to parent that child.

Speaker 2 And after actually becoming sober, getting clean, thank God, they're still taken to court where they try to pretend like it's not their child and are forced to pay alimony. via a judge.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Around that time, they lose a computer that results in a massively embarrassing news story for me and extremely embarrassing stuff about themselves and kind of a weird butterfly flapping its wings sensitive computer results in one of the world's richest and douchiest people taking over a social media platform and weaponizing that platform against me.

Speaker 2 At some point during all this, my child decides to get into guns because that's really what they need. It's like a lot of high-powered weaponry.

Speaker 2 They can't afford taxes or rent or child support, but they need a Glock.

Speaker 2 And in order to get the gun, they lie on gun forms and break some laws. This leads to some nonviolent gun crimes.
And now here I am, 82 years old.

Speaker 2 I'm leaving office that I had one running on a rule of law and integrity platform. Obviously, it's Louisiana.
So my predecessor was corrupt.

Speaker 2 And that predecessor, obviously because it's Louisiana, avoids jail and is coming back into office and is planning to target my family. What would I do in that circumstance?

Speaker 2 This is going to sound tongue-in-cheek, but I really thought about it. I sat on the couch and thought about it for like 10 minutes.
I really thought about it. I thought about that life trajectory.

Speaker 2 I thought about my kid and her going through all of that.

Speaker 2 And I thought about her being 54 years old when I had to make the decision. Not really a kid.

Speaker 2 It fall mixed me.

Speaker 2 In the end, I decided that

Speaker 2 I would have pardoned her. So

Speaker 2 the haters, you got me on that one, I guess. But I I don't think I'd be very sanctimonious about it in the pardoning statement.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I think as part of my deal with the kid, as part of the pardon deal that I have with my own child, they would have to parent their fucking child too.

Speaker 2 I think that'd be one thing that I'd do and make sure I can have a relationship with my grandchild.

Speaker 2 And I think I wouldn't be upset at any supporter of mine who followed me for years, running on a campaign of integrity and decency and following the rule of law, who got upset that I let them down.

Speaker 2 I think I'd I'd understand why they would be upset. So, there you go.
A little something for everybody.

Speaker 2 It's a tough one. It's a tough one.
Pretending like it's not, I think, is silly. Pretending like it's a huge win for Joe Biden or for me, hypothetical future me, it's silly.
It is what it is.

Speaker 2 It's a very tough situation we're in. And I think it's important that we grapple with all this stuff seriously because we're going to have many other tough situations ahead.

Speaker 2 Guys, I'll be back here tomorrow. Enjoy the sounds of the Garden State soundtrack taking you home.

Speaker 2 And we'll see you back here tomorrow. Peace.

Speaker 2 I think I'll go home and mold this over for a cracked down my throat.

Speaker 2 And long last, it's crushed. It's the last

Speaker 2 is broken up, intermittent.

Speaker 2 Red the mattress

Speaker 2 after four.

Speaker 2 Walk the cramps all put together in the cold.

Speaker 2 Heavy and dark skin,

Speaker 2 hide the fact you're dead again.

Speaker 2 Underneath the bowl by

Speaker 2 secret shade

Speaker 2 for above our heads,

Speaker 2 all the icy hides that contain all the reason

Speaker 2 luscious mix of words and the tricks that let us fan when you know which to fall

Speaker 2 on rocks I drowned. I well went stacked and I've been holding

Speaker 2 some run from now on

Speaker 2 Hold your glass up,

Speaker 2 hold it in

Speaker 2 Never betray the way you've always known it in

Speaker 2 One day I'll be wondering how I got so old just wondering how. Now I got cold wearing on in the slow.

Speaker 2 This is way

Speaker 2 beyond my remote concern to be a condescending old

Speaker 2 Thursday

Speaker 2 one

Speaker 2 quit

Speaker 2 building

Speaker 2 nothing.

Speaker 2 The Bullwork podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

Speaker 10 Dude, this new bacon, egg, and chicken biscuit from AMPM, total winner, winner chicken breakfast.

Speaker 11 Chicken breakfast? Come on, I think you mean chicken dinner, bro.

Speaker 2 Nah, brother.

Speaker 10 Crispy bacon, fluffy eggs, juicy chicken, and a buttery biscuit? That's the perfect breakfast.

Speaker 2 All right, let me try it. Hmm, okay, yeah.

Speaker 11 Totally winner, winner chicken breakfast.

Speaker 2 I'm gonna have to keep this right here.

Speaker 12 make sure every breakfast is a winner with the delicious new bacon egg and chicken biscuit from ampm a.m p.m too much good stuff

Speaker 13 here for the lows early black friday deals you're right on time for some of our biggest savings we're talking up to 50 off select major appliances plus up to an extra 25 off when you bundle select major appliances holiday lights going up soon select ladders are up to 50 off right now get black friday prices without the black friday crowds lows we help help you save valid through 1119 selection varies by location select locations only while supplies last see lows.com for more details let's listen in on a live unscripted second grade challenger school class they're studying charlotte's web what words did this author use to describe this barn descriptive words wonderful can you find some adjectives in there new is an adjective describing rope rubber is an adjective and it modifies boots Those students are seven.

Speaker 14 Starting early and starting right makes a real difference. Learn more at challengerschool.com.