David Axelrod: Change Agent

Speaker 1 is Matt Rogers from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Boen Yang from Los Culturalistos with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
Hey, Bowen, it's gift season.

Speaker 1 Stressing me out. Why are the people I love so hard to shop for? Probably because they only make boring gift guides that are totally uninspired.
Except for the guide we made.

Speaker 1 In partnership with Marshalls, where premium gifts mean incredible value, it's giving gifts. With categories like best gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto.

Speaker 1 or Best Gifts for Me that were so thoughtful I really shouldn't have. Check out the guide on Marshalls.com and gift the good stuff at Marshalls.

Speaker 3 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 3 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 5 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 3 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes. Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 7 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 3 One thing's for sure: the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close. Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 9 Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.
I'm delighted to be here with a first-time guest on The Daily. It's chief strategist for Barack Obama's presidential campaigns.

Speaker 9 He's the founder of the University of Chicago's Institute of Politics. You might see him on CNN, and he's the host of two podcasts, The Competitor, Hacks on Tap, and The X-Files with David Axelrod.

Speaker 9 Hey, David, how are you doing, man?

Speaker 10 The Bulwark podcast has no competitors.

Speaker 2 You know that.

Speaker 9 You've been, we love hacks. You've been cheating on me with Sarah Longwell and Bill Crystal for a while now.
So it's about time we get a little FaceTime, I figure.

Speaker 13 Yes, yeah.

Speaker 14 They are brilliant.

Speaker 16 The whole operation is great and happy to be with you as well.

Speaker 9 Much appreciated. So we got a lot of seriousness to discuss.
We've got some bedwedding to discuss, but I figured we'd start with some laughs, if that's okay, at Trump's expense. I enjoy that.

Speaker 17 It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Speaker 9 It is, but I got to find pleasure somewhere these days.

Speaker 2 Okay, all right.

Speaker 11 Go ahead. Knock yourself out.

Speaker 9 The former president went on the Flagrant podcast with a comedian named andrew schultz there was some laughing i think it was kind of in the at not with variety but let's listen to a couple of my favorite highlights i have a hard time doing it to them because i'm bas you know i'm basically a truthful person but and and frankly no but frankly

Speaker 19 White Eisenhower was sort of a moderate, General Eisenhower. Did you know that they had 8% generals, president of the United States, 8% were generals, 92% were politicians,

Speaker 19 and then you had Trump. See, that's a weave.

Speaker 20 You know, we go off into the United States.

Speaker 2 I like that.

Speaker 2 Because now I'm like, where are we weave and turn it off? I'm into this.

Speaker 19 No, no, think of it, because we're talking about generals, and then you get back on to the general. There you go.
That is what I was going to say

Speaker 19 is that Eisenhower.

Speaker 2 I like the place of motto for the weave.

Speaker 19 No, it's good, though. Isn't it great?

Speaker 2 We go into it.

Speaker 19 We mentioned Eisenhower, and then I say he was a general. 8% generals, 92%, and now you go back.

Speaker 22 Okay, it's part of the weave.

Speaker 2 Then you go back.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you got to keep it all together.

Speaker 19 You got to be sharp. If you're not sharp, you got to go.

Speaker 9 You got to be sharp.

Speaker 2 Think of it.

Speaker 9 You got to be sharp, Axe. How sharp did that sound to you?

Speaker 23 And if you're not sharp, you're dead.

Speaker 9 If you're not sharp, you're dead.

Speaker 25 So we better be sharp because I don't want to be dead.

Speaker 9 You're feeling sharp. The mental acuity there, how are we feeling on the mental acuity scale for the 78-year-old want to be president again?

Speaker 31 You know, I mean, the truth of the matter is, I went back and looked, you know, when I was getting ready for his debate with Biden, I went back and looked at the 2016 debate, and it was pretty striking.

Speaker 32 You know,

Speaker 33 he was

Speaker 31 different.

Speaker 35 I mean, there's always been the sort of strange turns, but they generally go in a direction.

Speaker 11 And, you know, he is not what he was then.

Speaker 39 These rallies are mind-boggling when you listen to them, these two hours of stand-up that he does, because it's just like words flow.

Speaker 30 You know, when the first Mayor Daly was mayor of Chicago, he's famous for his malapropisms, and his press secretary once screamed at the reporters who were covering him and said, don't print what he said, print what he meant.

Speaker 16 And Mike Royko once said about the old Mayor Daly that he never exits the same sentence he enters.

Speaker 38 But that's sort of become the norm here.

Speaker 44 Trump starts a sentence.

Speaker 17 I guess that has double meaning these days.

Speaker 36 But Trump starts a sentence and you never know where he's going to wind up.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I didn't pull this clip, but there's audio from the rally last night, the Pennsylvania rally, which I suffered through. A prime example of this is like he starts talking about the hurricane.

Speaker 9 And it's in North Carolina. And then he goes to like, but then FEMA didn't come, which is a lie.
So he starts with a lie.

Speaker 9 And then he builds on the lie by saying but it shouldn't have been a problem because there's so many military bases in north carolina there should have already been people on the ground and then that takes him to by the way we should give fort bragg its confederate name back and then he does a long aside on the confederate and the wokes and taking changing names and it's like so you start on this extremely serious topic and and you just advance a total conspiracy about it and then get derailed into talking about confederate names yeah but you know tim let me just say just stepping back, going back to that example about Mayor Daly, people actually did know what he meant.

Speaker 31 And in some ways, when Trump talks to his base, they somehow know what he means.

Speaker 2 I mean, he's communicating things that may not be linear, but they're visceral.

Speaker 21 And, you know, we shouldn't underestimate the power of that.

Speaker 51 The stuff he's done on the hurricane is abysmal, just as the kind of victimization of Springfield, Ohio was abysmal, and so on.

Speaker 55 But they're, you know, all for a purpose.

Speaker 42 I'm always reminding myself of what Alyssa Farrah Griffin, my colleague over at CNN, said, who worked for him in communications.

Speaker 42 She said he once told her he wanted her to say something.

Speaker 54 She said, Well, that's not true.

Speaker 40 He said, If you say it enough, they'll believe it.

Speaker 9 The George Costanza.

Speaker 13 Yeah, that's his. I think it's more Roy Cohn.

Speaker 2 More Roy Cohn.

Speaker 48 But, you know, that's how he operates.

Speaker 58 And, you know, I mean, the essence of Trump is that his father told him when he was a kid that he

Speaker 43 reportedly that there are two kinds of people in the world.

Speaker 36 There are killers and there are losers.

Speaker 24 And you've got to be a killer.

Speaker 42 You can't be a loser.

Speaker 60 And the subtext of that is: the world is the hunger games.

Speaker 54 The world's a jungle.

Speaker 29 The strong take what they want.

Speaker 31 The weak fall away.

Speaker 21 And rules and laws and norms and institutions, those are for suckers.

Speaker 33 So just do whatever you have to do.

Speaker 59 And that's sort of the way he's lived his life.

Speaker 30 And now the whole country is being tugged along with him.

Speaker 53 But that's a hell of a way for

Speaker 54 a president of the United States to think.

Speaker 9 Yeah, that fundamentally is just not how government works, right? This is why he, I think, is so uniquely dangerous, even against some of these other guys.

Speaker 9 Like on the hurricane point, I was watching this morning before we started taping the DeSantis' press conference, you know, kind of updating people on Milton.

Speaker 9 And obviously, there's some terrible damage that's being done that seems not to be as bad as kind of what people had feared to the worst fears and expectations.

Speaker 9 And DeSantis is giving a very kind of meticulous rundown of like, here's what we know, here's what happens, here's the areas where things are worse, here's where we're sending resources.

Speaker 9 DeSantis meets with Biden yesterday, and like all this stuff that is just for everything that there is to hate about DeSantis, and there's plenty, like is just within the normal bounds of what a politician is supposed to do when there's a crisis, when there's a tragedy.

Speaker 9 And like Trump is just fundamentally incapable of it, because if you have that killers or losers mindset, there's no room there for, well, we got to work with the other guys on this one to actually solve a problem.

Speaker 47 I think, Tim, what you're saying right there

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 42 potentially why he still may lose this election.

Speaker 40 I keep saying one of the things that struck me about that vice presidential debate, which was wholly unremarkable in many ways, was the degree to which there was a dial group that a super PAC did of this debate.

Speaker 17 And after they had a discussion, and in that group, this was swing voters who are normally pretty ornery group at this stage in an election.

Speaker 60 And they were like rapturous.

Speaker 25 That was the greatest debate we've seen.

Speaker 53 They were courteous. They were civil.

Speaker 9 Too civil for my taste.

Speaker 9 I was out of of step with the swing voters on this one.

Speaker 2 I was like, rip his face off, Tim.

Speaker 62 No, no, I know, I know.

Speaker 14 There was a lot of that.

Speaker 60 I've heard a lot of that.

Speaker 17 My point is this, though.

Speaker 13 I think there's a hunger out there for something else.

Speaker 48 There is an understanding that if You know, you are in a constant state of pugilism and you are going to demonize your opponents at every turn and you're trying to weaponize every problem, that you're not going to solve anything.

Speaker 40 You're not going to get anything done.

Speaker 21 You know, if I were her, I would be leaning into more of that.

Speaker 36 I think that's a real tangible vulnerability.

Speaker 2 I mean, Trump has a lot of vulnerabilities, and I think it's frustrating to a lot of people

Speaker 30 who understand

Speaker 42 them or feel them that he's not getting held more accountable for them, not the least of which is fundamentally trying to overturn a free and fair election.

Speaker 12 But this one, I think, has a practical, practical, tangible application, which is, you know, all that stuff that you think we need to get done, we're never going to get it done with this guy because he's so consumed by himself and so consumed by his battles, most of which are completely unnecessary, that he's not going to be able to do this.

Speaker 44 That's the turn of the page.

Speaker 56 That's what makes him the incumbent in this race.

Speaker 25 And if this race is about turning the page on Biden and his policies, and remember, we're in an environment in which

Speaker 56 25, 28 percent of people say we're on the right track, whether that's fair or not, that's the reality. Normally, the incumbent party loses that election.

Speaker 67 So she has to make change from that, from that element of Trump, I think, a focus of her closing arguments.

Speaker 9 Aaron Powell, Jr.: Is that your top advice for her?

Speaker 9 And if you if they I mean, I'm I know that you're talking to your old buddy Pluff and some of those folks, but and I'm sure they're taking some of the things that you guys have been discussing in private.

Speaker 9 But is there something that they haven't done at this point that you would like to see more of over the last four weeks?

Speaker 42 I don't talk to them that much because I know what it's like to be on the inside and have

Speaker 39 old duffers outside telling you what to do.

Speaker 9 Sometimes it's nice to be here from outside the bunker, though. We learned earlier this summer there are some problems in the bunker sometimes.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 48 I agree.

Speaker 15 But that's entirely up to them to decide what they need.

Speaker 13 And I think when you look at the rollout from the moment she announced she was running to, you know, the sort of lightning strike to seize the nomination, her appearances after the rallies, the convention, which was a remarkable thing, having turned that around in weeks, from a Biden convention to a Harris convention.

Speaker 13 And then the debate. And then for 10 days after the debate, I think she benefited from the aftermath of that debate as social media carried the message of what happened that night.

Speaker 51 But things kind of have stalled out now.

Speaker 63 And, you know, you need a closing act in this drama.

Speaker 11 And you have to think hard about what that closing argument is.

Speaker 44 That's number one.

Speaker 36 Number two is I agree with the strategy to get her out.

Speaker 52 Obviously, she needs to be disciplined.

Speaker 44 It's hard.

Speaker 45 She needs to be disciplined and organic in these appearances, you know, which is a hard thing to ask of people.

Speaker 9 Great advice, boss. Yeah.

Speaker 9 You've got to be authentic and guarded. Yeah,

Speaker 61 just spin this plate and rub your belly on roller skates.

Speaker 9 You've got to be charming and strong.

Speaker 21 Hey, man, running for president is hard.

Speaker 42 But, you know, you need to internalize your message and you need to react in organic ways when you're talking to folks.

Speaker 18 But, you know, one of the things that says to me that she hasn't entirely internalized the strategic elements of the campaign and where it's at is the answer on the view about what she would do differently from Biden.

Speaker 11 They're like, you're a professional, Tim.

Speaker 39 There are many, many ways she could have answered that question without looking like she was running away from Biden.

Speaker 46 But the answer she gave was uniquely bad.

Speaker 63 So, you know, there is that.

Speaker 11 You know, she needs to internalize what the strategic imperatives are, but more interaction with actual people, I think.

Speaker 31 I've seen some footage of her talking to just people who come up to her, people who have problems, people, and her whole being sort of changes.

Speaker 51 It's really, I think, impactful.

Speaker 47 So I'm saying more of that, you know, but in messaging wise, I think you do need to sort of set the stakes here.

Speaker 2 You know, if you care about getting this done for the middle class, if you care about the things that she has been stressing and that people want, you know, you got to ask yourself, how are we going to get this done if we can't even talk to each other?

Speaker 26 And then stress the element of Trump's sort of unremitting sort of self-consumption, you know, or self-absorption.

Speaker 23 You know, it's all about him all the time.

Speaker 44 So, I mean, I'd be stressing those things.

Speaker 9 It seems like the change thing is

Speaker 9 what you're really concerned about, like making sure she's positioned as the change person, which she was doing well at the very beginning.

Speaker 25 Yes, a turn of the page on all of this politics, this brain-dead politics that doesn't let us get things done.

Speaker 55 And, you know, honestly, on that Biden answer, the thing I would have said is, look, I'm grateful to have served him.

Speaker 40 I'm grateful to have had the opportunity.

Speaker 67 I'm proud of him.

Speaker 62 And, you know, obviously I'm running for president because I have my own ideas about where we should go from here.

Speaker 23 We'll build on some of the things he's done.

Speaker 34 We'll do some things differently.

Speaker 42 But one thing I admire that I do want to emulate is he understood that if you're going to get stuff done, you got to be able to work with people.

Speaker 2 We got an infrastructure bill because Republicans and Democrats were willing to work together, the president being part of that process.

Speaker 40 We didn't get that under Donald Trump.

Speaker 45 There's a reason for that.

Speaker 11 We got this done.

Speaker 13 You know, we got that done.

Speaker 11 And then I guess the last element, Tim, is part of that mix is, you know, Trump does, he offers himself as a tribune of the forgotten middle class, but he governs in a very traditional way.

Speaker 21 And I mean, Republicans have a different view on this, but his one major achievement was that big tax cut that skewed in one direction.

Speaker 48 He wants to do away with the Affordable Care Act.

Speaker 53 You know, there are a lot of things that he would do

Speaker 21 that don't square with the idea that he's a tribune of the working man.

Speaker 9 You know, so The advice you have there, I don't know if you've been talking to our buddy Jmart at Politico, but it is kind of in line.

Speaker 9 Jmart this morning has a piece that says that she should be embracing the probability that she has a GOP Senate, vow compromise, taking temps down, getting shit done.

Speaker 9 I mean, that's kind of insider-y to care about the Senate, but it is like when I talk to my on-the-fence,

Speaker 9 the small group of swing voters that are the former Republicans, college-educated, don't like Trump, are worried about Kamala, that the real Kamala might be too far left.

Speaker 9 I look at them and say, look, the Senate is gone, right?

Speaker 9 I mean, the Montana Senate polls has, New York Times has Sheehi plus eight, Remington, She plus eight, Fabrizio, She plus six, Public Opinion, She plus six.

Speaker 9 And so if the Democrats can't win Montana, they can't win the Senate. And if they can't win the Senate, they can't do any of the socialist stuff you're scared of.

Speaker 9 So can you use that to pivot to the center?

Speaker 45 And what they should be worried about is that if Trump wins and manages to carry the House with him and the Senate, you know, where's the guardrails?

Speaker 9 None.

Speaker 9 Supreme Court, 6'3 Supreme Court, three Trump appointees.

Speaker 21 Yeah, and I would expect that he might get a chance to make other appointments because I think there'll be a couple of them who may quit and give him the opportunity to do that.

Speaker 13 It still would be the same configuration, but you'd have a new generation of some of the same.

Speaker 21 So I think that now they have to sharpen their closing argument, and it has to be consistent, and it has to be carried in media.

Speaker 13 And I'm sure they're thinking about that.

Speaker 9 Where are you at on the bedwetting scale here? It's just as far as things are going. I mean, let me look down.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, like, are you in a puddle right now?

Speaker 68 It's all dry here. It's all dry.

Speaker 2 It seems dry.

Speaker 9 Okay, that's not true over here in New Orleans. I'm in a puddle, and it isn't a storm for once.

Speaker 2 It's my own,

Speaker 9 yeah, it's my own MICT rating.

Speaker 48 Let me just say, we are ill, sir.

Speaker 51 I think the vibe right now isn't great.

Speaker 26 There's concern.

Speaker 2 But partly we have this plethora of polls, and they all say something slightly different.

Speaker 45 So, you know, if she's two points up in one poll

Speaker 37 in a state, and another poll comes out and says she's a point down,

Speaker 11 that is a round of bed wedding and so on.

Speaker 26 I'm not minimizing the fact that I do think she stalled out about 10 days after the debate.

Speaker 68 I kind of think the war was a circuit breaker there, and kind of because I don't think that's, you know, people started thinking about the commander-in-chief thing, and there were some other things.

Speaker 22 And I have to say that the Trump campaign has been very, very,

Speaker 52 well, he's undisciplined, they are very disciplined in their media, and their media is designed to cast her as A, a continuation of Biden's economics, and B, an exotic left-wing radical.

Speaker 9 Worse than exotic, really. Right.
Queer, loving, non-binary, non-binary loving radical is going to you know change your kids' gender they have been burning that message in

Speaker 10 and i think that's had some impact uh as well so

Speaker 63 you know is it is it right to be concerned it's right to be concerned this is a very very close race though i mean the reality of the race is you're talking about virtual ties in almost all the battleground states.

Speaker 27 Now, the question that plays in people's minds is, does Trump produce what he has in the past, which is,

Speaker 10 you know, hidden vote that comes out at the end?

Speaker 24 So is a tie

Speaker 14 actually a win for him? That's, I think, what a lot of Republicans assume.

Speaker 11 I think a lot of Democrats fear it.

Speaker 28 I don't know.

Speaker 49 I mean, polling has been refined.

Speaker 37 His number generally is around where his number has been in the final analysis.

Speaker 60 So it makes me think that polling has refined itself.

Speaker 11 I don't think there are shy Trump voters out there anymore.

Speaker 26 Trump voters are anything but shy.

Speaker 37 You know, I was with Rove last night, and he argues that there may be shy anti-Trump voters.

Speaker 9 Rove might be a shy Harris voter. You might have been with a shy Harris voter.

Speaker 10 He did not reveal that to me.

Speaker 9 He won't come on the podcast, which makes me think he might be a shy, or he doesn't want to admit that he's not a shy Harris voter because he knows where I'm going if I get him on.

Speaker 14 Maybe he's a a shy bulwark listener.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Hey, Carl.

Speaker 21 But, I mean, my point is, you know, we don't really know, but it would be more comfortable.

Speaker 62 You know, Biden had a big lead at this point in polling.

Speaker 53 He ended up winning by 44,000 votes over three states.

Speaker 45 Hillary had a big lead at this moment, and she ended up losing the battleground states by narrow margins. So forging a bit of a lead would give people comfort and everybody would dry out, you know.

Speaker 60 But I don't know that we're going to have that.

Speaker 9 There's some scuttle out there that like that the Dem private numbers are actually worse than the public numbers. Do you hear that?

Speaker 59 You know, I'll tell you something.

Speaker 14 I think that there are all kinds of numbers out there.

Speaker 37 I mean, I've I've been watching one set of numbers just a rolling track that for months.

Speaker 45 I think they reflect what I said, which is she was making steady progress until about 10 days after

Speaker 11 the debate, and it kind of leveled off.

Speaker 14 But it leveled off in a place where everything's sort of tied.

Speaker 33 There's no steep decline.

Speaker 25 The day before Joe Biden dropped out, Trump was headed to a landslide.

Speaker 61 That's not where we are right now.

Speaker 37 This is a very winnable race, but

Speaker 29 I think that she's going to have to do a little bit more to make the sale.

Speaker 11 And events are going to have an impact on it.

Speaker 2 I think that minor changes in the environment can make a difference in this race.

Speaker 14 So

Speaker 51 it's fine to be concerned.

Speaker 12 It's a mistake to be fatalistic about this.

Speaker 45 I don't think this race is over by any stretch of the imagination.

Speaker 9 No, I'm not fatalistic. I'm just breathing into a paper bag.

Speaker 2 Concerned is where I am.

Speaker 20 Some moments in your life stay with you forever.

Speaker 20 In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 20 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 20 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back.
Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one. So I started searching.

Speaker 20 And that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay.
It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live. Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story.

Speaker 20 eBay, things people love.

Speaker 20 Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 3 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 3 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 5 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 3 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes. Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 7 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 3 One thing's for sure: the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close. Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 9 I want to get your take on this because sometimes I feel like I worry that we're biased at the bulwark in analysis of kind of wanting Dems to reach out to our people because it's because we know our people.

Speaker 9 And the Harris campaign has really been doing a lot. She's got a new ad out that I saw you tweeted the other day that is like directly aimed at our folks.

Speaker 71 100 Republicans who worked in national security for Presidents Reagan, both Bushes, Bushes, and for President Trump, now endorsing Harris for president.

Speaker 72 She came up as a prosecutor, an attorney general, into the Senate. She has the kind of character that's going to be necessary in the presidency.

Speaker 73 Vice President Harris is standing in the breach at a critical moment in our nation's history. We have a shared commitment as Americans to do what's right for this country.

Speaker 73 This year, I am proudly casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris.

Speaker 70 Former generals, secretaries of defense, secretaries of the Army, Navy, and Air Force, CIA directors, and National Security Council leaders under Democratic and Republican presidents, Republican members of Congress, and even former Trump administration officials agree there's only one candidate fit to lead our nation, and that's Kamala Harris.

Speaker 9 I'm Kamala Harris, and I approve this message.

Speaker 9 There was a Wisconsin Marquette poll that jumped out at me. He said, a large majority of undecided voters in this state describe themselves as moderates.

Speaker 9 In partisan terms, Republicans and Republican leading independents make up the single biggest group, about half the undecideds, followed by pure independents, 40%, and Democrats and Democratic-leading independents, only 10%.

Speaker 9 To me,

Speaker 9 that must be what they're seeing, right? Like, that's why there's so much Liz Cheney, because I hear from my lefty friends, like, maybe a little dial back the Liz Cheney a little bit.

Speaker 9 Where do you fall on that?

Speaker 45 I think there's that. I think they're trying to create a permission structure for these

Speaker 31 Haley Republicans.

Speaker 51 But I also think that ad

Speaker 10 it came after that war erupted.

Speaker 22 And I do think that it was a direct answer to the whole commander in chief thing and strength thing.

Speaker 67 It featured Stan McChrystal, who was the commander in Afghanistan and played a big role in Iraq.

Speaker 11 So I think it was on a macro level meant to deal with that issue.

Speaker 29 On a micro level,

Speaker 21 I think to reach out to those Republican-leaning independents for whom national security is a big issue.

Speaker 52 And Liz Cheney does speak to those people.

Speaker 60 Coalitions are a bitch, man.

Speaker 21 They're hard to manage.

Speaker 10 Can I say that these days?

Speaker 2 Yeah, you can say it.

Speaker 9 Certainly on the Bulwark podcast, maybe not on crooked media.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 9 The staffer. They might have different staffers over there, different concerns.
We can say it's a bitch over here. Charles Franklin is the bolster's name.
I'll take it.

Speaker 9 I want to shout him out because he does good work. I just want to verbalize the worry that people have, which is not my worry.

Speaker 2 I think this is correct.

Speaker 9 I think that what the Harris team is doing is correct. And I think that they're looking at data.

Speaker 9 And the data is just that like high-income, high-education, former Republicans are like the people left on the tree that they can still squeeze, the juice that's left to squeeze.

Speaker 9 But some people say it's like it feels Hillary-ish,

Speaker 9 you know, that Hillary-ish tried, Hillary tried this and they lost.

Speaker 21 Listen, I think their biggest problem, Tim, is not that.

Speaker 23 I think their biggest problem is they're still lagging lagging a bit among African Americans, and there's a concern about that, both those numbers in terms of...

Speaker 9 So that's unlike, so why so much list change?

Speaker 9 Are there other stuff? Should she be doing other, is there other type of messaging that might appeal to that demo?

Speaker 45 Well, there's no question, although, I mean, I don't think the voters who are hanging out, and not just black voters or Hispanic voters, but younger voters and some

Speaker 53 other kind of working-class voters.

Speaker 25 I don't think they're watching TV ads particularly.

Speaker 11 I don't think they're, I mean, they're probably getting a lot more on social media.

Speaker 9 TV ads are for the 65-year-old former Republican types that are still watching the nightly news. You know, they're still watching terrestrial cable.

Speaker 2 So it's a specific target.

Speaker 67 Yeah, I mean, I think that

Speaker 45 there's some of that.

Speaker 44 They're doing, I'm sure, a lot of stuff to micro-target those.

Speaker 22 And frankly, President Obama getting out there today in Pittsburgh, and this will be the start of a campaign presence for him.

Speaker 2 He can be very helpful with some of the voters who they need to consolidate here, but who are much more influenced, by the way, by economic issues than by these issues.

Speaker 44 So don't assume that their whole messaging is aimed at you.

Speaker 9 Well, they don't need to aim at me. I'm one over.
But, you know, my people, my people, writ large.

Speaker 14 Your people, yeah.

Speaker 59 You're responsible for them, you know.

Speaker 9 I know when we're doing everything. We're out there.

Speaker 9 This is a good plug, Axe. We got a bus tour next week.
We're doing Philly, Pittsburgh, Detroit. We got all the Never Trumper stars.
Go to theborick.com slash events. Come hang out with us.

Speaker 9 George Conway will be out there. We got some regular Pennsylvanian and Michigan former Republicans voting for Kamala.
So it'll be a good little circuit.

Speaker 20 Some moments in your life stay with you forever.

Speaker 20 In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 20 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 20 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back.
Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one. So I started searching.

Speaker 20 And that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay.
It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live. Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story.

Speaker 20 eBay, things people love.

Speaker 20 Listen to On Purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 3 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 3 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 5 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 3 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes. Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 7 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 3 One thing's for sure: the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close. Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 9 You mentioned your former boss is out today. We got you here.
So I want to do a little, you know, looking back.

Speaker 9 But before we get to that, there's one more clip from that podcast I want to play that I think is interesting thinking in the context of your former boss.

Speaker 9 Let's listen to Trump talking about what he thinks about America.

Speaker 19 My legacy to be is the same as the term MAGA, make America great again.

Speaker 19 I'm going to make this country great again. It's not a great country right now.
It's loaded up.

Speaker 2 It's always a great country. It's a great

Speaker 2 place. It's always a great country.

Speaker 9 Good on that comedian. It's always a great country.
When you hear Trump under his breath, if you couldn't hear it, that's where I disagree.

Speaker 9 Could you imagine what would have happened if your former boss had done that?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 21 that was a big meme, right, about him that he, you know, not only was he not an American, but he hated America.

Speaker 23 You heard that a lot from Rush Limbaugh and others, including, you know, Trump obviously was a propagator of the whole birther thing.

Speaker 12 Yeah, listen, I said this to a group last night.

Speaker 15 My father was a refugee from Eastern Europe, Jewish refugee, and

Speaker 34 suffered terrible violence and

Speaker 22 deprivations and so on.

Speaker 44 And he and his family struggled to get here when he was a child.

Speaker 33 And one generation later, I was the senior advisor to the President of the United States.

Speaker 37 You know, this isn't a perfect country, but this is a great country.

Speaker 21 We should always want to make it greater.

Speaker 45 We should always strive to make it more perfect.

Speaker 25 But the freedom that we have here, the opportunities, we should work to broaden certainly.

Speaker 29 Why is it that people all over the world want to come here?

Speaker 44 You know, I know that Trump thinks that's bad.

Speaker 65 I think it's good.

Speaker 22 I think it's good that this is a country that people look up to, that people want to come to, that people want to come and contribute to.

Speaker 52 You know, I'd like to think my family was one of those families that came here and contributed to this country.

Speaker 24 So I would think people should find that deeply, deeply offensive.

Speaker 45 I mean, the truth of the matter is Donald Trump thinks that no country is great that he isn't president of.

Speaker 49 And that's how he judges whether a country is great.

Speaker 30 Instantly, instantly.

Speaker 44 Instantly, if he were to get elected again on January 21st, America would be great again, in his telling.

Speaker 40 You know, this is bigger than Donald F.

Speaker 23 and Trump.

Speaker 24 Okay.

Speaker 47 I think one of the things that should concern people is

Speaker 55 that kind of perverse worldview.

Speaker 52 But Josh Shapiro's line about why don't they stop shit talking America?

Speaker 30 It really speaks to a larger thing, which is there is nothing, no principle, no value that Trump is unwilling to subjugate for his own political needs.

Speaker 11 He wants to, you know, weaponize every problem. The fact that they didn't pass that immigration bill last year because he said, no, we want the issue, was a parable about who he is.

Speaker 24 Sorry,

Speaker 24 you set me off there.

Speaker 9 No, let's do it. I love setting you off because it sets me off.
I watch this. It makes me very upset.
And listening to you talk about your father's story. And it is the fundamentalist American story.

Speaker 9 And that's why Donald Trump is fundamentally un-American. I think my favorite line of Obama's was, in the unlikely story that is America, there's nothing false about hope.

Speaker 9 I find myself saying that sometimes, sometimes tongue-in-cheek, but also sometimes earnestly.

Speaker 59 Yeah. I'll tell you something.

Speaker 36 When he got the call to give the convention speech in 2004, the keynote address, he hung up the phone and he said, I know what I want to say.

Speaker 14 And I said, well, what is it that you want to say?

Speaker 33 He said, I want to talk about my story as part of the larger American story.

Speaker 50 And he did.

Speaker 51 And it's something that he believed.

Speaker 37 He carried that in his heart.

Speaker 22 And in that sense, he was the most American of presidents because he believed

Speaker 11 in the greatness of America, even as he recognized where America had fallen short and where we could do better.

Speaker 9 Did you have a favorite Obama line? And did you write it?

Speaker 9 Your favorite one you didn't write?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 53 The thing about that particular speech is that

Speaker 33 he did write that speech himself. I think it's the greatest speech he ever gave.

Speaker 37 And he's given a lot of good speeches.

Speaker 33 And we had a lot of great speechwriters.

Speaker 37 And, you know,

Speaker 50 the best time of my White House tenure was the hour a day I spent leading the speechwriters meeting because it was the greatest writers' room you could ever imagine.

Speaker 33 But he was the best speechwriter in the group.

Speaker 55 and that speech was pure Obama.

Speaker 12 And I used to say to the speechwriters, that's the founding document.

Speaker 42 You know, if you find yourself getting lost, go back and read that, because that's what this is all about.

Speaker 60 So I don't know, there are so many lines that I loved and appreciated.

Speaker 57 But, you know, the line that gave me chills in some ways was,

Speaker 55 and the purest joy that I experienced in that whole journey with Obama politically, I mean, passing the Affordable Care Act to me was personal because I have a child with chronic illness, but politically, the most joyful experience was the Iowa Caucasus in 2008.

Speaker 49 And when he came out on that stage and they said, they said this day would never come,

Speaker 17 it just sent chills down my spine because it meant so much about our country.

Speaker 29 You know, here he had won the caucuses in a state that was overwhelmingly white, and they had embraced him.

Speaker 21 It was so moving to me.

Speaker 51 That whole night was so moving to me.

Speaker 37 But, you know, we could do a whole show on him and his rhetoric.

Speaker 9 Let's do that, hopefully, next year, if Trump loses.

Speaker 14 The Bulwark may be out of business.

Speaker 57 The Bulwark, you may be broadcasting from Toronto.

Speaker 9 Well, then we'd have nothing but time.

Speaker 9 And I'm going south, baby.

Speaker 2 I'm going south.

Speaker 9 I'm not going up to the cold. Stuart Stevens offered me his place in Quebec City.
And I was like, yeah, I was like, no, Quebec City for me. I'm going to be down in Montevideo or something hiding out.

Speaker 9 I have a little bone to pick with you. One serious note on this.
Just listening to this. You're getting me emotional.
Thinking about Obama, thinking about

Speaker 9 what he meant to the American story. And then thinking about Trump and how

Speaker 9 just fundamentally at odds he is with it and how fucking cruel he was and how just negligent he was in his attacks on Obama, and in the way that he was president, the way that he acted as president.

Speaker 9 I feel like sometimes we're the most pissed than ever Trumpers at the people that go around to go along with them.

Speaker 9 And sometimes I, I don't know, I'm like on on the, I don't know how you do it on the CNN panel.

Speaker 9 Sometimes I'm looking at you and I just want to grab Scott Jennings by his lapel, throw him up, throw him down, throw down.

Speaker 9 And I do feel like you have a little bit more of a Zen to to you, a little more of a calm. Can you explain that to me? Why you don't have rage?

Speaker 2 Why you don't have my rage?

Speaker 46 You know, you're not the first person.

Speaker 38 I remember David from was at my Institute of Politics at the University of Chicago, where you should come sometime.

Speaker 44 I walked into the conference room, and the first thing he said to me is, Why are you so calm?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 56 You know, you can hear, I'm not calm in the sense that I love this country

Speaker 25 for what it truly is, and

Speaker 53 I think there's so much at stake.

Speaker 58 But I also think that one thing that's at stake is our ability to talk to each other.

Speaker 52 And the truth of the matter is, Scott Jennings is a really good friend of mine.

Speaker 2 You know, I don't agree with him.

Speaker 52 And I think he's playing a particular role right now that.

Speaker 9 It's pernicious. A pernicious role?

Speaker 17 Well, I mean, certainly he's playing a partisan role at a time when,

Speaker 12 you know, I think it's

Speaker 10 you have to stretch yourself to do that and feel good about it.

Speaker 62 But I know him as a human being.

Speaker 14 I know what he is as a father.

Speaker 34 I know his whole story.

Speaker 53 I know how he treats people.

Speaker 11 I hear a lot about him. But my view is I want to have conversations with people.

Speaker 52 So when I challenge him, it's in the spirit of I'm not trying to impeach you as a human being.

Speaker 2 I'm not trying to impeach you as an American, but I'm going to challenge what you say.

Speaker 30 The thing about Trump, there is something called Trump derangement syndrome, but it's an understandable thing because he ratchets things up so high that we respond to

Speaker 61 his outrage with our outrage, and we ratchet it up to the point where we're in our silos and they're in their silos.

Speaker 9 But isn't our outrage righteous, though? Isn't there a difference between righteous outrage and fake bullshit outrage?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 64 The outrage we have is about fake bullshit outrage.

Speaker 14 But the point is, Tim, we can't, and it goes to our earlier discussion, I kind of try and look for the

Speaker 61 best in people and the, you know, and I, you know, try and relate to that and try and work through differences.

Speaker 42 And I don't know how we survive, honestly, as a democracy.

Speaker 26 I mean, obviously, we can't survive as a democracy if

Speaker 42 we look away from gross trespasses of democracy.

Speaker 25 Let's just stipulate that point.

Speaker 27 And I understand the outrage about people who know better, who are willing to look aside at the trespass.

Speaker 68 And I think that's what you're speaking about.

Speaker 26 But it's also true.

Speaker 30 I mean, I have conversations with people who are voting.

Speaker 61 for Trump, and I have conversations with people who are voting for Harris.

Speaker 11 I live sometimes

Speaker 2 in the rural Midwest.

Speaker 55 I've got neighbors who are good neighbors and good people who are voting for Trump for a variety of reasons, mostly because they don't think they count.

Speaker 68 And he's like a big middle finger to the people they think are disdainful of them.

Speaker 27 Totally.

Speaker 9 He's not disdainful of them at all. He cares about them very deeply, average rural Illinois people, yeah.

Speaker 41 Well, of course.

Speaker 14 But what he is is a big middle finger to the people who they think disdain them.

Speaker 24 I think we have to find our way back to a point where we can have good faith differences.

Speaker 51 Listen, you come from a different partisan tradition than I do.

Speaker 14 We could probably find things that we disagree on,

Speaker 63 but I don't demean you for it.

Speaker 37 The hard part is this issue of democracy, and I think that is where I choose to plant my flag when we have these arguments on television and so on, which is, you know, when you, Scott, talked about Waltz being deceptive because he was in Hong Kong or China two months after he said he was.

Speaker 39 You can't compare that to a guy saying that the election was stolen and turning a whole country upside down.

Speaker 54 That's not an honest debate.

Speaker 67 And I call him on it.

Speaker 9 And you know that because we saw him on TV that night. I mean, he sounded like me.
You know, these, everyone sounded like everyone. I don't mean to keep picking on Scott.

Speaker 9 Everyone, they all sounded like me. Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Scott Jennings, they all sounded like me and you.

Speaker 2 Everybody did for three days. So it's not like they didn't know.

Speaker 42 Yeah, no, and I don't think he would say, if he were here, he would not say, well, I've changed my mind on that.

Speaker 64 The question is, is that or is that not

Speaker 51 a serious enough offense

Speaker 29 that it makes one

Speaker 56 unacceptable in a position of responsibility in this country?

Speaker 52 You know, I think, yes, Scott needs to explain why he thinks no.

Speaker 63 But I'm just, you know.

Speaker 33 I don't know if I've explained myself sufficiently to your satisfaction.

Speaker 30 Well, no, no, no, no, you can't.

Speaker 9 Look, I I mean, Sarah, we do this. I'm sorry, we're going over, but this is important stuff.

Speaker 9 We struggle with this at the bulwark because we deeply care about norms and conversation and want the country to be fixed and want us to be able to

Speaker 9 argue about policy disagreements. So that is intention, though, with

Speaker 2 our also

Speaker 9 just deep-seated rage at people that are trying to tear the country down that know better or that the people that are trying to get them.

Speaker 2 They're not trying to tear the country down. They're going along, who are going along with their fellow travelers.

Speaker 2 Yes, and they're doing it, and they're doing it for personal, political, very petty reasons.

Speaker 67 Survival, you know, survival in the environment he's created.

Speaker 42 And I'm sure if you look at history at some point, yeah, but everybody survives.

Speaker 9 That's kind of a cop-out, though. Anybody that

Speaker 9 has achieved success in Republican politics who wanted to walk away could go work for a company, could go to

Speaker 9 not putting their food on their table. Nobody's not surviving, you know? Survival in the game.

Speaker 17 I had this discussion with Adam Kinzinger, who I really respect.

Speaker 9 He's on my side of this. Kinzinger, no, he might be the only one madder than me.
He's like full of rage at these.

Speaker 62 Oh, no, no. And you know what?

Speaker 66 He deserves to be because he was willing to say there are bigger things in life than having a title.

Speaker 55 I asked him about voting against the first impeachment.

Speaker 15 He said, that was the worst vote I ever cast.

Speaker 33 I said, why did you cast it?

Speaker 61 He said, because it's hard to walk away from the tribe.

Speaker 12 And he said, and to a lot of my colleagues, he said, this is their identity.

Speaker 11 Being a member of Congress, being a member of the Senate, this is their identity.

Speaker 51 It's not, to me, it's a job.

Speaker 46 To them, it's their identity.

Speaker 44 And they can't imagine themselves not in those jobs. He wasn't justifying it.

Speaker 14 I think he's a guy, you know, he's a career military guy.

Speaker 12 He's a guy who takes his oath seriously.

Speaker 63 I honor him.

Speaker 12 I'm proud to call him my friend.

Speaker 30 And I understand his feelings.

Speaker 64 But what he described is what it is.

Speaker 30 I'm not excusing it.

Speaker 53 I think that history is going to be very tough on people who

Speaker 2 knew better and went along.

Speaker 30 But that describes 90% of the current Republican Party leadership.

Speaker 9 All right. Well, at some level, I admire it.
And I need to find your Zen. So if you have any yoga or CBD gummy advice, I will take it.
I will say, I debated Dan Crenshaw.

Speaker 10 I'll also be practicing Zen in Toronto.

Speaker 9 Okay, great.

Speaker 9 I just will say, I should shout out the Axe Files podcast. You do very interesting, long-form conversations with people.

Speaker 9 That said, I listened to your Dan Crenshaw podcast to prep for a debate I had with Dan Crenshaw that we'll put in the show notes for people that missed it. It wasn't that helpful because

Speaker 9 your Zen versus my rage. Like, maybe it should have been more helpful, actually.

Speaker 9 Maybe I should have taken a little bit more from your style, but it's just it was I was it's it's hard for me and internally.

Speaker 39 My goal in that podcast, there is a ton of forums in which you can get very intense debates.

Speaker 37 My goal in that podcast is to I want people to leave the podcast more aware of who someone is.

Speaker 27 I want them to learn about who people are, their stories, and so on.

Speaker 49 And I think in that podcast, if you listen to that podcast, you know, there are places where his discomfort or his inability to sort of square the circle were evident.

Speaker 23 And people will draw their own conclusions, you know.

Speaker 12 So my mission on that podcast is a little different.

Speaker 9 No, you succeeded in your mission. It just

Speaker 2 was. It didn't help your mission.

Speaker 9 I was looking for little gotchas. You know,

Speaker 9 I was looking for little gotchas to give him a little twist a knife verbally, rhetorically.

Speaker 9 Spirited exchange, I would say.

Speaker 9 Last thing, you don't have the stash anymore. You shaved it for epilepsy.

Speaker 9 right this is what you mentioned earlier your daughter all right so it's a two-party daughter is the stash ever coming back and and do you want to give to our listeners an organization that that you raise money for and we can we can put the link in so you can promote it yes uh that that's so good of you to ask no i it will never come back and i'll tell you why i mean there's a long story as to how this happened but we did this thing after the election of 2012 on morning joe called slash the stash by the way the first one of the first big contributions came from Donald Trump because I said on the show.

Speaker 9 Because he watches a lot of cable.

Speaker 45 He watches Morning Joe, that's for sure.

Speaker 39 I said, I know you're watching.

Speaker 12 You said you'd give us

Speaker 58 $5 million if the president would present his birth certificate.

Speaker 53 He presented his birth certificate.

Speaker 11 You never gave us the $5 million.

Speaker 30 I said, you can at least send me $100,000.

Speaker 11 And he did send me $100,000 from the now-defunct foundation.

Speaker 42 So it probably wasn't his money, but I still appreciated it. And then I was able to call Mark Cuban and say, Donald Trump just gave me $100,000.

Speaker 37 You can't let him outdo you.

Speaker 54 So he sent $200,000.

Speaker 56 We ended up raising $1.2 million.

Speaker 54 I shaved the mustache off.

Speaker 57 We walk away from this.

Speaker 42 I did it on national TV, and my wife says to me, Hey, leave that thing off.

Speaker 23 I always hated it anyway.

Speaker 65 This was after 33 years of marriage, Kim.

Speaker 51 So it's like, what else is she not telling me?

Speaker 33 But yes, the organization is curepilepsy.org.

Speaker 42 It started at our kitchen table because our daughter was in agony and we couldn't find any answers.

Speaker 60 And it became the largest private funder of epilepsy research in the world.

Speaker 11 And, you know, we're looking for innovative research that will find cures so that people don't have to put up with the kinds of side effects that you would get from some of these very difficult drugs you have to take to subdue seizures if you have intractable epilepsy or surgeries or other treatments.

Speaker 68 So, please,

Speaker 33 if you're inclined, please send a few bucks to curepilepsy.org.

Speaker 67 One in 26 Americans will have epilepsy in their lifetime, and a third of them will have intractable epilepsy.

Speaker 57 So, this is not a small problem, and we welcome all the help we can in solving it.

Speaker 9 Thank you for your advocacy and your calm and your insight. David Axelrod, we'll do this again from, I guess, you'll be in Toronto, I'll be in Montevideo.

Speaker 50 You know what?

Speaker 21 I'm not getting run out of my country. I'll tell you.

Speaker 27 Me neither.

Speaker 9 I'm effing staying. I'm effing staying.
We'll see you ball back here tomorrow for the Friday edition of the Lord Podcast.

Speaker 2 Peace.

Speaker 74 Rulers are ruined, but I scalp a ruler. New to this town, I'm a stranger.
Pass and I see the bunk crews. I don't get the hoopla.
The world got rules, they say. That's a rumor.

Speaker 74 But nine, not mine, it's a tumor. They ain't even trying to buy the weed.

Speaker 2 The designer. One, two, one, two.

Speaker 74 I done read books by Sun Tzu. Learned from beautiful women who roll my joints too.
The opposite of humble and my swag on come through. No admission for the cool, just kicking it come through.

Speaker 74 Hurry up, we got liquor to run through. Males to inhale, lies to not tell.
She told me let her go and then I can exhale.

Speaker 70 I left her with a palette growing the next tail.

Speaker 9 The Bulwark podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

Speaker 1 This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
Hey, Bowen, it's gift season.

Speaker 1 Stressing me out. Why are the people I love so hard to shop for? Probably because they only make boring gift guides that are totally uninspired.
Except for the guide we made.

Speaker 1 In partnership with Marshalls, where premium gifts meet incredible value, it's giving gifts.

Speaker 1 With categories like best gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto or best gifts for me that were so thoughtful I really shouldn't have.

Speaker 1 Check out the guide on marshalls.com and gift the good stuff at Marshalls.

Speaker 75 Even though severe cases can be rare, respiratory syncytial virus, or RSV, is still the leading cause of hospitalization in babies under one.

Speaker 75 RSV often begins like a cold or the flu, but can quickly spread to your baby's lungs. Ask your doctor about preventative antibodies for your baby this season and visit protectagainstrsv.com.

Speaker 75 The information presented is for general educational purposes only. Please ask your healthcare provider about any questions regarding your health or your baby's health.

Speaker 76 Even when you're playing music,

Speaker 76 you're always listening to your baby, especially when RSV is on your mind.

Speaker 76 Vaporitis, Nursevimab ALIP, is the first and only long-acting preventative antibody that gives babies the RSV antibodies they lack.

Speaker 76 Baphortis is a prescription medicine used to help prevent serious lung disease caused by RSV or respiratory syncytial virus in babies under age one born during or entering their first RSV season and children up to 24 months who remain at risk of severe RSV disease through their second RSV season.

Speaker 76 Your baby shouldn't receive Baphortis if they have a history of serious allergic reactions to Baphortis, Nircevimab ALIP, or any of its ingredients.

Speaker 76 Tell your baby's doctor about any medicines they're taking and all their medical conditions, including bleeding or bruising problems. Serious allergic reactions have happened.

Speaker 76 Get medical help right away if your child has any of the following signs or symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, such as swelling of the face, mouth, or tongue, difficulty swallowing or breathing, unresponsiveness, bluish color of skin, lips, or underfingernails, muscle weakness, severe rash, hives, or itching.

Speaker 76 Most common side effects include rash and pain, swelling, or hardness at their injection site. Individual results may vary.
Ask your baby's doctor about Bayfortis.

Speaker 76 Visit Bayfortis.com or call 1-855-BEFORTIS.