BONUS EPISODE with Doug Emhoff: We Have a Mission

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Additional terms apply. Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast, a bonus edition.
I am here with the second gentleman of the United States of America. It's Doug Emhoff.
How are you doing? Hey, Tim. It's good to see you again, man.
It's good to see you again. What are we calling the second gentleman? Sir? Is it a sir story like Trump? Or is it, can I just call you Doug? Or is it SCOTUS? What do we go by? You can do SG.
We can keep it more casual since we've met. But just not Dougie.
Only she can call me Dougie. Okay.
I promise. It won't escape my lips.
I want to start here. I had a little shtick that I was working on for the last couple of weeks, which I think is maybe true.
The best shtick is true, that the only person that was having a better time on debate night than I was, was the second gentleman himself as G, watching that all come into form. So I'm curious, I know that you love your wife and are proud of her and admire her, but she had to exceed even your expectations because the watching experience is sometimes more nervous than the participating.
So what was that like for you? Yeah, so I was around her a little bit because I was doing events and we were in Pittsburgh or she was in Pittsburgh for a couple of days for the prep and I was kind of in and out doing events. So I was actually not around her a lot.
They gave us like an hour to kind of have couple of time and that turned out to be a nice romantic stroll on a tarmac of an Air Force base. But being around her, I could just sense that she was just really ready because she was calm.
She wasn't saying much. And she looked very focused and determined, a lot like she looked before her DNC speech.
So I've been around her enough around some of her moments. But it was really that day when it was kind of like, you know, just very calm, very collected.
You can see the focus. We didn't really talk a lot.
I think she was just really processing. So I thought she was going to kill it.
I really did. So I was nervous, but not really because I just, I know her so well.
And I know this whole entire campaign, she's just been stepping up and the expectations, the pressure, the country, the world needs a leader right now. And she has really stepped up in kind of the most badass version of a badass person.
And so, you know, I was confident, but you never know until you get out there. And to see her just walk right up to Trump and put her hand out and say, hi, I'm Kamala Harris.
It really set the

tone. And that guy, he just didn't kind of didn't know what hit him.
And then it was just, you know, one thing after another. And it was relentless the entire time from start to finish.
There was no let up. And that's what I like, too.
It wasn't where she scored a few points and said, okay, I'll just mail it.

You know,

it just kept going and going.

And,

uh,

it was really a lot,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of,

a lot of pride but she walked off the stage and i was just in a little soundless room watching it and she walked off she said well how did i do i'm like how did you do you crushed it what are you what are you kidding me and it was just one of those fun little couple moments where uh no honey this was this was unbelievable i love so much about that i love that they give you a one-hour conjugal visit on the tarmac i love that you is ready i didn't tell you the trump it's impressive to me i just have to say good so from my perspective having been backstage at all this 2016 debates in the primaries against him all those men i gotta you, including my boss, I'm not speaking out of school, he'll say it. Marco, you know, going all the way down Scott Walker going all the way down the line.
They were nervous. It's a different animal.
It's not like a politics debate. You know, you have this guy, you don't know what he's going to say.
More people are watching than have ever watched anything. Like he's a total wild card.
And so so the fact that she maintained so much calm there, I do think really was like a test of ability to rise to a moment, which is an important trait in a president. Yeah.
And you remember, Tim, how she started her career, I mean, facing down murderers and rapists and sex offenders and putting them away and facing down transnational gangs. So she's a super tough, fearless woman for real.
So she's not afraid of anything and certainly not him. And that, that showed too, because she really approached it the way she does everything.
Like, I don't, I'm not afraid of you and I'm just going to bring it right to you and let's see if you can deal with me rather than whether she can deal with him and that's the way she approaches everything I think every other you know the the folks you mentioned in 2016 you always felt like there were some really good good debaters on that 16 stage and he took them all down because they they kind of didn't know how to deal with him she knew how to deal with him I love that There's one moment from the debate ever since it happened I've been dying to ask you about. So I want to play it and we'll get you on the other side.
Let's just listen. A place of storied significance for us as Americans.
A place where we honor the importance of American diplomacy. Where we invite and receive respected world leaders.
And this former president, as president, invited them to Camp David because he does not again appreciate the role and responsibility of the president of the United States. What do you think that she was going to call him there? I'm just going to rely on the memes at this point.
So there was the Sam Jackson one from Pulp Fiction. I'm not saying this is what she was trying to say, but there is a funny meme of her when somebody asked her what her favorite cuss word was.
She said it starts with an M and ends with an uh. it feels like it might have crossed the mind it feel it might i but i just know what i got sent on my various you know group chats and i thought you might have inside info though you know i thought maybe one time you might have known that look like across the kitchen i'm just you know she's like you you know what is this like spousal uh privilege or whatever i'm gonna say some of these things will just have to remain between us.
But it was a great moment. All right.
Well, grand spousal privilege. I want to go back to your career.
I was listening to your interview with my man, Heilman, a couple weeks ago. And you guys were talking about one of your mottos in your legal career that was stay mad.
Stay mad. That's funny.
You referenced that one time we met before. And it was like the one thing that we really talked about and I think connected over was the fact that like both of us at times get frustrated with the fact that there's some complacency out there and that a lot of people are not staying mad at Donald Trump and the threat of him, be that media, be that political opponents, be that whoever.
So I'm curious for you to just to repeat for our listeners kind of what that motto means and then how it applies to the the challenge of taking on trump so it really started when i was a you know a good kid athlete i played a lot of competitive sports yes it's true i see you're like really no i did i know i believe it i've seen the i've seen the picture on the tank top the doug tank top you you know you look athletic yeah young Doug, man. But it's just that channeling that just get mad, get mad at the opponent on the field, on the court.
And then as a trial lawyer, a competitive person in the legal field where I'm representing clients, where you've got to make their problem your problem. You've got to get as upset as they are about the issue that they're facing.
You got to channel that and you got to turn that into action. And so don't turn that anger into just being mad.
Turn that anger into purposeful action to complete the task at hand. And so in my speeches now, and I'll go through the parade of horribles over the effect of the Dobbs decision, Project 2025, all the things that are on a daily basis coming out of Trump's mouth.

Don't believe the sane washing of J.D. Vance.

Just actually listen to what they're saying in the kind of country that this would become, which no one would want to live in.

The impact on our economy of a half-assed authoritarianism type government it's going to be devastating for our our world so you just start talking about this and you can see the rage and people in in the audience i say yeah you're mad aren't you we'll stay mad turn that anger into action you can do something about this we've got 30 some odd days for an election. So let's turn this into energy, purpose, do what Colin and I are doing.
We're traveling each and every day around the country to get the word out that there really is such a stark binary choice. And you all know, as a former Republican, you and Charlie and others just talk about how truly terrible this will be.
And it's not going to be normal. And as much as they try to normalize it, it's not.
And it's not going to be like it was in 16 because he had some normies around him. They're all gone.
So this is not going to be what anyone's seen before. And they're literally telling you what they're going to do.
It's all out there.

And so get mad, turn it into action, and let's get out and register,

and let's get out and vote.

Amen.

And the statement for me is like, I don't know.

It does just feel at times like there's a little bit of complacency.

I was watching Liz yesterday with the vice president, and the two of them,

they have it.

The fire is in the belly. And I just am watching and going, like, why is it only this? I know that there are other people out there, my man, Adam Kinzinger and others.
But at some point, don't you feel like it is incumbent within the Stay Mad ethos on more people to kind of spend the next 30 days closing the deal here? Definitely. But there's others.
Look at General McChrystal. What he wrote in the New York Times was just an amazing op-ed.
And he said he may not agree with Kamala Harris on a lot of substantive issues. He may.
He's just learning more. But on the fundamentals about who's an American, who stands up for the rule of law, who stands up for the Constitution, who is going to be a leader on the world stage who respects our allies, going to stand shoulder to shoulder with them and not kowtow to Putin and others.
It's such a clear, stark contrast. So we're getting them engaged and the tent is getting bigger and bigger.
We're getting more and more Republican endorsements. But I will say to your former, the Republicans out there, it's not enough to just say publicly, you're not voting for Donald Trump.
You need to say you're supporting Harris because otherwise, what is it worth? You know, go the full distance. You're either for the constitution, rule of law, having the country that we all love and care about or not.
And you got to support Harris on that. She's the only one who is going to be there.
And look, we want a strong Republican party. We want to have competing ideas and policies, but not about the big things about our democracy, our rule of law and our way of life.
We need to be all aligned on that. And let's argue about policy.
And that's what Liz Cheney and others are saying. Within this rubric, there's one other thing that I just, I feel like I'd ask you about, because sometimes there has to be some limits to staying mad.
I've been wondering how you're dealing with it. I don't mind taking shit.
I actually kind of like it and revel in it. I don't mind if some jerk is whatever attacking me, some former Republican or or some current Republican about abandoning Trump.
I don't mind if some jerk is whatever attacking me, some former Republican or whatever, or some current Republican about abandoning Trump. I don't mind the harassment.
It's fine. I don't like it when my kid gets brought into it.
And I do sometimes react poorly. And that has happened over the past few months.
And that happens to you all the time. I mean, your kids are getting targeted.
I see Ella getting targeted. I just kind of wonder how you process that, how you deal with it.

Well, first of all, sorry that what you're going through.

It's nothing.

No, but we got to call it all out.

I mean, look, you're a journalist.

We believe in a free press.

We need strong journalists out there calling it out.

And for you guys to be able to do your job, you can't do it being threatened and being targeted.

And that's part of their game, too.

Thank you. there calling it out.
And for you guys to be able to do your job, you can't do it being threatened and being targeted. And that's part of their game too.
It's all a distraction. So the attacks on me personally, the kids, Kamala, look, it's not fun, especially when it hits the kids.
But right now, we have a mission. And that mission is to win this election.
And there is nothing, I mean, nothing that is going to take us away from this mission nothing's going to distract us nothing's going to make us lose focus and whatever they try to throw at us it's not going to work so we are you know kind of as a family all aligned we're close we're close-knit you saw that at the convention and you know we'll talk about it and we'll talk to each other about. But look, we know we've got to just barrel forward for these next 30 plus days really to save our country.
And we're in this position. And so we know there's a lot of responsibility and accountability.
And we're just going to, you know, again, head down and run through those walls to make sure that we win. One other behind-the-scenes thing, the other time we got to meet that kind of surprised me was when I was meeting the vice president.
I guess it didn't surprise me. It struck me.
The just lengths of the prep that she was doing, the seriousness, the binders. She was showing us the binders.
Like this woman's taking this stuff seriously. And particularly in the foreign policy and just kind of how passionate she'd become about it.
Not that she wasn't before, but kind of her experience meeting other world leaders, getting briefed, the importance of America's role in the world. You've kind of seen all that behind the scenes.
I'm just wondering if you have any perspective on just what you've seen in her as far as growing into and preparing for the world leadership stage, which is different than being just in California. Right.
Well, so when I came in, I knew her as attorney general, just being a lawyer. She's a prodigiously talented, smart person.
She just is. So she starts from a place of just massive intelligence and talent.
And again, as a skilled, trained trial lawyer and as a public servant going through attorney general, going as U.S. senator and now vice president, you know, the preparation, attention to detail, the diligence, you know, to making sure that she knows what's happening and she knows how to deal with it.
There's also four years as vice president really prepares you to be president. And look, four years of being in the Oval, four years of

being in the sit room, and four years of not thinking about what it would be like to be on

the world stage, but actually being on the world stage and doing serious things, which she talked

about in the debate. And you can see the difference, the way she talked about in the debate and you can see the difference the way she talked about zelinski and putin the seriousness the way she talked about other issues and the way he you know was just making stuff up and then you can really see the split screen after the debate when she was with zelinski shoulder to shoulder ally to ally and then you see Trump bragging about his relationship with Putin to Zelensky.
It's just that this contrast is so stark. And so, no, I'm not surprised because she approaches everything with this diligence, but it's those hours clocked doing the hard things as vice president and then her own natural talent and skill and ability to rise when the pressure's highest, which we've now seen from the day that President Biden decided to not go forward with the campaign.
You saw it at the DNC speech. You saw it at the debate.
You're seeing it every day out on the campaign trail. She's just really elevated who she is.
And it's just, you know, I'm not surprised, very proud of her, but she's,

there's no time for, you know, Hey honey, you're doing great. And Hey, look at you and look at

this. Anytime I remotely express any kind of wonderment at anything, she just literally

takes my head and says, get back out there on the road. We got to win.
None of this matters

unless we win. So just, you know, stop talking and get back out there and work.
I want to talk about the anti-Semitism work that you've been doing, but also in the context of, I hear from, you know, people that don't like Trump, they're anti-Trump Republican types in particular that are Jewish, that are worried. I have friends with kids on campus that their kids have been discriminated against.
Obviously, there's discrimination against Muslim kids and gay kids and trans kids, etc. But in this specific area, there is a worry that the Democrats, for whatever reason, aren't taking this seriously enough.
This is something you've been working on. Talk about your work and how seriously you and the

vice president would take the anti-Semitism issue should she win in November. Thanks for bringing this up.
And it's a crisis. It's a crisis of anti-Semitism.
There's a crisis of hate. From day one, when she and Joe Biden were elected, and I was frankly struggling a little bit with, okay, what do I do now? Because I didn't realize when Joe Biden tapped her to be VP in August of 2020, that that was actually the last day I worked as a lawyer in a career that I loved, was passionate about.
And so when they won and took office in January of 2021, I was like, okay, what do I do now? And so Kamala was the one who really pushed me to lean into the fight against anti-Semitism. She said, look, you're the first Jewish person ever in this role.
We already knew we had Charlottesville with the tiki torches. Jews will not replace us.
We had the horrific shooting at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, and other things were already boiling up. So she was the

one who pushed me. And that push led to the first ever national strategy to combat anti-Semitism, which was put out by the Biden-Harris White House in 2023.
So that was pre-October 7th. None of that would have happened without the vice president pushing me and pushing the administration to take on this fight.
Moreover, I tell my Jewish friends, it's like I didn't have to explain to her who I was as a Jewish person when we met. She knew who I was.
She had been to Israel. She knew our customs, our culture.
In fact, she was the one who was like, look, let's make sure you get to live openly and proudly as a Jewish person at the residence. So when you were there, hopefully you saw the mezuzah on the front door and our menorahs and our seders and all the things that we've done openly and publicly.
And that's because of her. And since October 7th, that horrific day, she has been on the front lines of the fight against this crisis, whether it be on college campuses and other places.
So I have this conversation a lot. I think you should judge her by what she is saying.
She has addressed this issue very directly. She did it at her DNC speech and other places.
So, you know, I spent a lot of time talking about all the work that I've done, the administration has done that will continue in a Harris administration. And that includes on campuses, too.
Yeah, of course. And look, the kids on campuses, I've met with lots of them.
I've been to a lot of the campuses, especially ones that have been affected, such as Cornell. And it's the same message.
Like, we have your back. You're a student.
You need to be able to go to class freely. And protests are fine.
They're covered by the First Amendment. We welcome them.
But when those protests cross the line into threats of violence, actual anti-Semitism, and other things that are preventing kids who just want to learn, and these are kids, Jewish kids, who have nothing to do with the policies of the Nanyahu government or whatever actions they're taking. So that's what we're going to continue to work on.
And that will obviously continue in a Harris administration. I'm not going anywhere in this fight against anti-Semitism.
So as first gentleman, I will very much continue my work in that area as well with her support. I'd love to hear that.
We're out of time, but we got time for rapid fire. Are you ready for the rapid fire? I hope so, man.
I hope so. All right, let's do it.
Doug Emhoff, are you a Marxist? Do you know anybody that's a member of the Communist Party? No, and I'm married to a capitalist. That's important.
Okay, good to know. I'm glad we cleared that up.

Best dish, the capitalist that you're married to cooks.

She's such a great cook, but I've got to go with roast chicken.

I think someone asked me once, if you can only have one meal forever that she made.

It's like she does it.

It's like a two-day process.

She puts it in the fridge overnight, all kinds of stuff, and bastes it. It's just one of those crispy on the outside, tender on the inside deals, and it's really good.
Sounds nice. All right.
We're in the Jewish high holidays. We had Rosh Hashanah of Yom Kippur coming up.
Do you have a favorite Jewish holiday or tradition? I like Passover. I think Passover is one of everyone's favorites because it's a communal gathering and everyone goes around and has a participation from oldest to youngest.
And you get to try all different kinds of things you probably never eat during the year. And it really brings folks together.
So the Seder is probably one of my best moments. You're an L.A.
guy. She's a Bay woman.
So there's a little bit of a rivalry there on the sports side, but we're just going to focus on L.A. I want an L.A.
sports Mount Rushmore. I'm giving you magic.
We're starting with magic. Who else are you putting on it? Well, I'm such a Laker guy.
It's almost like Riley, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron. We're cutting Kobe? No, okay, this is's the lakers mount rush where you only get four oh my god well kareem magic shaq and kobe because lebron's still playing so that's the only reason lebron's not on it yet the only reason lebron's cut i'm gonna send that to mendelson to make sure he sees lebron get cut all.
We always have an outro on this podcast, an outro song, something that fits the theme of the pod. You're going to see Michael Stipe and Jason Isbell tonight at an event for the Harris-Walls team.
So I want to hear your best concert and let you pick the outro song for the show. Well, since I'm so focused on the event tonight and I was going through kind of my remembrances and with my little brother, and we were reminded that we saw REM at the Hollywood Palladium in June of 1984 on the Reckoning Tour.
Wow. So I'm going to go for that concert.
I think a local LA band called the Dream Syndicate, I believe, opened. So this was like on ascendancy of R.E.M.
You knew they were going places. And then, of course, they climbed the ladder to the amphitheater, to the forum, to the stadium.
And so I'm going to go with that era. And since South Central Rain is my favorite song from that particular album, we can do South Central Rain as the outro.
I love it. We're hoping for sunshine in the election, but it's raining here in New Orleans, so we can have a little South Central Rain to take us out today.
Doug Emhoff, second gentleman of the United States. Thank you so much for coming on the Bulwark podcast.
Hope to see you out on the campaign trail. Stay mad.
We need you to go kick his ass. All right.
Thanks, man. And thanks for all you're doing and telling the truth

and getting your former Republicans out there to vote for Harrison Wallace. Let's save our country.

Appreciate it, sir. All right, guys, we'll be back on Monday.
Hope you enjoyed the bonus podcast.

We'll see you all then. Peace.
I waited for your car There's rumors of suggestion They're driving me away The trees will burn The cities wash away The city on the river There's a girl without a dream I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry East in the mountain Good party call The lines are down You are as men The Easton Mountain The conversation's down To build yourself another hope

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I'm sorry The Bulldog Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper

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