Jon Favreau: Understanding the Assignment

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That's MyFICO.com slash free and discover the score lenders use most. Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast.
I'm your host, Tim Miller. I'm pumped to be here today with Barack Obama's former head speechwriter, co-author of the book, Democracy or Else, How to Save America in 10 Easy Steps, and the host of a niche political podcast you may have heard of, Pod Save America, Jon Favreau.
What's happening, my man? Hey, man. Thanks for having me on.
Big fan. Long-time listener.
Yeah, we understand you're especially a fan of Mondays with Bill Kristol. And that you're just like waiting for the Bill Kristol apps to drop.
That's what I've heard. I do all the Bulwark podcasts.
I'm a subscriber. I listen to you every day.
I listen to the next level. This is getting too much.
This is getting too much. All right.
The Bill Kristol compliments were good enough. I'm getting uncomfortable now.
We have something else in common. I think at least.
And I'm going to borrow a few words from both Barack Obama, your former boss in last night's speech, and the colonel in Boogie Nights. I don't know if he was intentionally making a reference to the colonel in Boogie Nights when he said this, but I'm a man that likes simple pleasures.
I like butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth and a card game with friends and convention speeches that deliver a fucking message that helps the nominee win. That's all I'm looking for.
A simple pleasure. And it seems like we got that.
We did get that. We did get that.
That's nice. I feel like that shouldn't be hard.
Me too. For some reason, it is hard for people.
I don't understand. It's like there's, you've got to go into these things with the goal in mind.
What is your goal? Who's the audience and what's the goal? At the Democratic convention, the audience is anyone who hasn't made up their mind yet. The goal is to elect fucking Kamala Harris.
I've got to interrupt, though. I've got to interrupt.
Now, you're the professional speechwriter who's had success, unlike me. But I've been told that actually the goal was to make people that are obsessive Pod Save America listeners and members of the Pod Save America Plus Discord very happy.
Is that not the goal of the speeches? Isn't it not to appeal to, like, Democratic superfans? Because I was told that was the goal. Is that wrong? I will say, fortunately, our listeners and our community, they get the assignment.
Like Randos on Twitter. No, they get the assignment.
But yes, the goal is not to send a thrill up the leg of people who are already going to vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walls and go out and volunteer. But they did manage to do both last night, which is pretty good.
I want to talk about Doug and your former boss and Michelle. But just like big picture, since this is your business, or was your business, if one of these guys calls you, you're sitting down, you have a blank piece of paper in front of you, what really are you trying to get across? What's the main objective here? Because there are a couple of potential objectives, right? Like building up Kamala, tearing down Trump, having something that goes viral on TikTok, being nice to the current president.
There are many different theories on what you could do. What's your main objective? I mean, it depends on who you are, who the speaker is, and what the context of the race is.
I do think that if it was still Biden-Trump, then Biden's job Thursday night would be much different than Kamala's job because Kamala has the added need to define herself, reintroduce herself to the country, talk about her plans more, right? And Biden probably would have just, you know, just kicked the shit out of Trump for 50 minutes. But I was looking back at when we were working on Obama's speech, I was looking back at the 2008 convention speech that he gave and- That was Denver? Yeah, in Denver.
When you're the nominee, there's a lot of business to get done. The things you just mentioned, you have to define yourself, talk about your plans, talk about your opponent.
It can be very state-of-the-union-esque in the worst possible way, unless you also make sure that it is a tight speech and it has enough rhetoric to get people in the crowd going and also inspire people at home. So there's a lot of different objectives in these speeches, which is why I think they are quite difficult to write.
They're probably, I think, the hardest speeches to write after the State of the Union Address, which is just a monster to write and not that fun and never a great speech at all. So those are the objectives.
And you're trying to persuade people. The point of every single speech is persuasion.
You are trying to get people to take an action they otherwise wouldn't have taken. That is like the main purpose of a speech.
I thought that Michelle did that the best last night. Yeah, she crushed it.
Yeah, it was not State of the Union-y at all. She understood the assignment.
That's our theme of the day, I guess, understanding the assignment. And the number one assignment for her, in addition to just kind of pulling on the heart strings and having, the speech had a little depth.
It wasn't political pablum, right? It was like you could tell she was feeling it, talking about her mother, talking about this grief we all feel about like the country at some times and like how you can get down about that.

I like that she started with that, that Kamala's mother and the urging to do something.

But like her main job was to build up the nominee of the party.

And I think that she did it very well.

And I noticed this morning on her social media, there's only one clip from her speech last night.

And I want to play it.

Kamala Harris is more than ready for this moment. She is one of the most qualified people ever to seek the office of the presidency.
And she is one of the most dignified. A tribute to her mother, to my mother, and to your mother, too.
The embodiment of the stories we tell ourselves about this country. Her story is your story.
It's my story. It's the story of the vast majority of Americans trying to build a better life.

Look, Kamala knows, like we do, that regardless of where you come from, what you look like,

who you love, how you worship, or what's in your bank account, we all deserve the opportunity

to build a decent life. All of our contributions deserve to be accepted and valued.
Because no one has a monopoly on what it means to be an American. No one.
Damn. It's good stuff.
I think one of the reasons she is an incredibly effective speaker in politics is because she hates politics she genuinely doesn't like politics and so when she speaks in a political setting it is because she feels in her gut so strongly that it is important to do so and she also like she has become close with kamala they've become like good friends over the last several years. And so I think she really, she really feels this one, but I think what she was trying to do there is Donald Trump, MAGA, their whole thing is to otherize people to say that like we're real.
And you know, Obama hit this in his speech as well. Like we're real Americans and anyone who doesn't support us, they are either not from here or not like us or different or you should be suspicious of them.
And what both of the Obamas have always tried to do and what Michelle did incredibly effectively there is to say, no, no, no, no, no. We're more closely connected to the American story than he is.
Right has this line about the affirmative action of generational wealth which i thought was like so good time convention line in that whole riff she sort of painted trump as this guy who's like he's had everything handed to him like when he breaks the rules he gets away with it he gets to ride up the escalator when he faces a big challenge. And like the rest of us, whether you're black, white, poor, middle class, wherever you're from in the country, like we don't get to do that.
We have to work hard. So it's just, it's like a fusion of economic populism and patriotism, which I think is incredibly effective and appealing to the broadest part of the electorate.
Yeah. The affirmative action of generational wealth is like,

A, a line that people are going to be stealing for a long time.

And it's also so good because it makes Trump so small.

Yes.

And she just made him so small in the speech last night.

She mentioned him one time.

She mentioned him one time.

But just the subtle digs throughout.

That is something that I've been noticing throughout the convention but also for the last however many years is like there is this tendency for anti-trump politicians to just go after like the cheapest anti-trump applause line and they can get like pretty nasty and they and there's this like the nastier you get, you know, the more anti-Trump you are.

And that's how you like burnish your credentials as a Democrat or an anti-Trump politician. And, you know, they go back and they find quotes that he said and things that only like terminally online people like us remember about Trump.
And none of that, to me, is as devastating to Trump as what Michelle Obama did last night, barely mentioning his name. Because what she did is she placed him outside of the American story and outside of the values we all hold dear as a country.
And she also was talking about him without talking about him directly, which is also, you know, a pet peeve i have about politics and political speeches is like everyone has sort of lost the art of subtlety yeah you know it's like we're just like hammering people over the head yeah right we got it trump there's a way to do it that is devastating and without being too obvious you know yeah and back to the and i just think that contrast of she's tearing him down making him feel small like he got where he was because he had that escalator up the mountain which which you know which regular people don't get he got where he was because the affirmative action of generational wealth he might be realizing that he's applying for a black job like all that stuff just like kind ofishes him. And then the Kamala part of her remarks.
And it is the thing that I felt has been the most missing for maybe every... I've missed some of the speakers, so maybe there have been some of the more personal, some of the smaller speakers, but a lot of the politician speakers, let's just put it like that.
Because they've been talking about Kamala in the way that I would talk about her. Like, I've met her one time you know what i mean like i just i don't know i can't speak to her leadership traits right besides what i see on tv etc and presumably a lot of these people like know her right and and the american people don't know her yet and so like when you're talking about how this convention is different from a speech writing standpoint than what a biden convention would be it's like you have this huge opportunity to introduce her to tell new things about her.
And I felt like Michelle did that by talking about her origin story and her mother and how she gets inspired by her mother and how we've seen that reflected in her life. And I think that was the building her up while making Trump feel small.
No, it's incredibly important to do that. I mean, and, you know, Obama tried to do it a few times in his speech to just like personal connections and not just like I know her and she's great, but like people who've worked with her.
We interviewed Lafonza Butler, a senator from California who was very close to Kamala. I've known her for 15 years, advised her in 2020 on Pod Save America.
Most of my questions to her were just like, what's she like? What should the country know about her that we don't already know? Because we've never been in a situation before like this, where the Democratic nominee for president with just, you know, a couple months to go is well known as a vice president, but like not well known in terms of like their values,

what they've done, stories about them, et cetera. It should be one of the main goals of the whole convention.
Yes. You know, I'm sure, I mean, Kamala will do that for sure on Thursday night.
I know she'll talk like a lot about her story. And while I'm sure we'll talk about Doug, Doug did that very well too.
And some of the people who've known her personally, but you're like i thought on monday night that biden would at least tell some stories about like working with her in the white house over the last four years i was surprised that he didn't do that i went to a funeral recently where the eulogy was given by the pastor you know and like you could tell the pastor didn't really know the person and i'm like that's not the eulogy i want obviously this is the opposite of that it's not a eulogy it's a build-up i don't want a pastor that doesn't know or that just like is going through a checklist like good family person you know like give me some color let me learn about her and doug just did that so great last night i mean you could have imagined a doug speech that was you know about right i don't know his fight against anti-semitism which is important you, you can imagine a Doug speech that's about like that, but he was just like, no, I'm going to tell about our first date. I like that.
I had heard, I think someone somewhere was previewing before Doug's speech that it was going to be like an entire speech about anti-Semitism. And again, I agree that's important.
I'm like really glad he's taking that on. But I was like,

the whole point of his speech has to be to personalize her, you know, and he did it in such a charming, humble way. And also I think that, you know, part of Trump's shtick is this, you know, fucking awful version of masculinity.
And I think between Doug and Tim Walls, it's like we're seeing this cycle sort of this other version of masculinity

that's like we're seeing this cycle, sort of this other version of masculinity that's like nice guys who are like okay being plus ones to their like really strong, successful wives, which is just like such a great image to project and a good way to counter Trump's bullshit. I also just think that again just because of the shallow knowledge a lot of people have about Kamala

and even I am an obsessive. If you asked me last week, when did Doug and Kamala get together? How old were the kids? I think I would have been like, I'm not sure, actually.
You know what I mean? So I think that it was really a nice way to paint a story of her that like comes into this family like does a mom role is supportive is taking calls from ella like they're already teenagers but like you know that it still you know happens in a way that is that like shows that somebody who actually like cares about other people and stuff you know what i mean like i just thought that was a nice way into her story that again like is what you should be doing at a convention like that's cool like now we know that about her you know yep it's the whole point that's the whole point okay we're gonna keep going on this on this theme because barack obama mostly stuck to the whole point of the convention with a little with a little bonus a little cherry on top for me let's take a listen to Barack's comments about Donald Trump. The people who will decide this election are asking a very simple question.
Who will fight for me? Who's thinking about my future, about my children's future, about our future together. One thing is for certain, Donald Trump is not losing sleep over that question.
Gotta put on that makeup. Here's a 78-year-old billionaire who has not stopped whining about his problems since he rode down his golden escalator nine years ago.
It has been a constant stream of gripes and grievances that's actually been getting worse now that he's afraid of losing to Kamala.

There's the childish nicknames,

the crazy conspiracy theories,

this weird obsession with crowd sizes. Yeah.

The crowd starts to cheer very loudly there.

It might not fully take on audio.

The video people notice.

The loud cheer happens when he does what appears to be a small cock sign after he talks about the small crowd sizes.

I know you worked on the speech.

Was that your ad?

I was stunned that he did that. It's funny.
I'll give you a little of the, the backstory. Please.
We've been going through the Trump section, what he's going to say about Trump. And most of that was led by him.
That's like how he wanted to frame it. And we had like a couple different examples in there of like Trump's whining.
For a while, we had like 2 a.m. social media tirades and like that was cut for time.
And the one thing that Obama kept adding back into the speech was the crowd size thing. And I didn't want to take it out just because it was like I didn't like it.
But I was just like, oh, you know, we're trying to get it, stuff like that. And in the last round of edits, he put it back in.
But I was like, okay, maybe he's just, this is like a funny thing that he wants to joke about. And then when I was watching the speech from the floor and saw him do that, I was like, oh my gosh, this is, wow.
Very unlike him. Do we think that was part of the plan then? Or it was just kind of in the moment? I know i could see myself in the moment he really he hammed it up though the argument against it being an accident the hands get smaller and smaller and then he kind of pauses and looks at his small hands for a second so i will tell you that if it was a planned thing it was planned only in his mind but he does that sometimes with speeches where he did this with the eulogy, a much more serious note, when he sang Amazing Grace.
He didn't tell you all he was going to sing? No, he had said something on the way there. He was like, I might sing if the mood strikes me, but I don't know.
I don't think so. Whenever he's into a speech and he's feeling the crowd, then he hams it up, right? Or he does something that wasn't expected to do so i think that's what happened then what about just any like other you know kind of working on speeches in the past kind of just a little guy's locker room talk any history of like chode jokes or anything else that kind of was cut and he likes to talk about lindsey graham's manhood at any point in private or is this honestly nothing else he's not usually he's that.
He doesn't make those jokes. Not usually a dick joke, man.
No, not at all. Well, I liked it.
I know that we're supposed to be serious. The thing that I've always liked about Obama's speech is even when I was opposing him, and frankly, liked it and was jealous of, is he's good at the high-low.
Yeah. that you want that in a speech right like you do not have to make a choice between appealing to people's better angels and making fun of assholes you can do both you know and he he very much approached this from the beginning we had talked about it and we sort of both came to the same conclusion which is which is what a lot of people at the convention have and michelle everyone else was like let's make

fun of the guy you know yeah like he's full of shit he's whiny and complaining like why are we

like trying to put him up there as this like scary strong man like we should we should take

him down a few pegs and so he had wanted to do that from the beginning the very bulwark part

of this oh yeah okay well great thank you we're gonna get there but that's probably eight minutes

Thank you. We're going to get there.
The last probably eight minutes could have been a monologue that we just post as a bonus episode of the Bulwark podcast. This kind of appeal to caring about people on the other side, about these fundamental values that we all share, that whether you have a grandfather or an uncle that is from a red state that worked hard and that he also shares those values and they might be from aga and they might say some racist things but like fundamentally we're a better people than this and we can i was just like oh man this could be a bill crystal morning shots so anyway we have one clip from it let's listen we don't trust each other as much because we don't take the time to know each other.
And in that space between us, politicians and algorithms teach us to caricature each other and troll each other and fear each other. But here's the good news, Chicago.

All across America, in big cities and small towns, away from all the noise, the ties that bind us together are still there. We still coach Little League and look out for our elderly neighbors.

We still feed the hungry in churches and mosques and synagogues and temples.

We share the same pride when our Olympic athletes compete for the gold.

Because the vast majority of us do not want to live in a country that's bitter and divided.

Thank you. because the vast majority of us do not want to live in a country that's bitter and divided we want something better we want to be better we want to be better yeah that's right that's the way to go to Yes.
I mean, I think there is this sort of superficial analysis of Obama's political philosophy, which is like hopey and changey and unity, and we're all going to get along. And, you know, Michelle always got shit for like, when they go low, we go high.
And it always drives me crazy, crazy because i think it's all misunderstood and what he was saying last night is like yeah we're gonna disagree we may we may not solve those disagreements but it was really a defense of like small l liberalism not in the not in the political partisan sense yes and it's this idea that like he has been talking a lot over the last year or so about pluralism he's wanted to give a pluralism speech which everyone was like okay we maybe we don't call it the pluralism speech but we get the concept we'd be happy to host okay we'd be happy to co-sponsor that with him if he wants to do a pluralism speech let's do it i'll i'll be in the front row you know hooting you know the idea that like in a country of like 300 million plus people like whichever side wins the other side's not going away right like we're gonna have to learn to live together and like the whole point of democracy is is not to all come to an agreement but it's also not to all like be at war all the time like donald trump wants us to be and his version of the Republican Party. And so we have to figure out a way to disagree.
And, you know, what he said in that speech is that's not just like on Republicans. Right.
Like that's on us, too. And he talked about how like from across the political spectrum, we've come to think that like winning is about like scolding people or shaming people or yelling the other side.
and he even uses the examples of like you know you have a grandmother or an uncle or a cousin who says something that's like off you give them grace you don't yell at them for that right and like why do we do that to strangers on social media why do we do that to other people in politics right going back to the purpose who are you talking to yes it is the way to get at some of these soft people i know that there are some progressives or liberals that don't think these people exist but there are like there are good people that live in the suburbs live in the country that are traditionally conservative republican that get somewhere in their gut that donald trump is bad and that we're better than him and that they just want to feel heard, right? And they just like need a nudge to just be like, yep, you know, okay, I'm ready. I'm not, we're not going back.
Like might not be a Democrat now, but like at least the people that I heard from at this convention, Tim Walls and Kamala Harris and the Obamas like recognize like I have value and we might disagree on some policies and maybe I'll vote for whoever the hell you know and next time around those people exist and this is a soft way to speak to them by like welcoming them rather than being like don't you vote for that bigot well it's that crowd right this is like the this is the bulwark crowd this is uh this is sarah's voters that she's talking to in the focus group but it's also and I think a lot of Democrats and progressives might not understand this, but it's the very voters that Biden was having problems with and that Democrats have been having problems with now over the last several years, which are younger black and brown voters who are sporadic voters. So once in a while they vote, sometimes they don't.
And their feeling is they're non-ideological and they're just like sick of politics. They think it's like a lot of noise and a lot of people just like yelling at each other all the time.
And they're not looking for kumbaya. They're just looking for like, well, why do I care about politics if it doesn't matter to my life? And all these assholes are just like on TV in it for themselves yelling at each other all the time whining about shit all the time and like i don't know the way these people live their lives is they try to get along with their neighbors and their colleagues and what they want is just like a government that will i don't know protect them help them live a better life keep them safe give them a chance that's all that's all people That's all people want.
And so that is a feeling that maybe both right-leaning independents have, but also a lot of these younger voters and voters of color who just are not showing up in every single election. I thought that Michelle spoke to that group as well very strongly, just about this.
It's empowering. Her message was empowering and practical.
That's what they want.

Like, not bullshit.

Don't bullshit me.

Like, I want to feel like this is worth doing and that it's worth doing for me in particular as a young black person or young brown person. One, just since you mentioned it on Obama's small liberal speech, I liked this from Sheikah, who started the Unpopulist sub-stack, who's a friend of the pod, obviously.

She wrote this, Barack Obama's speech is the most enlightenment liberalism statement I've heard in a long time. He hit every fundamental note, equal dignity for all, pluralism, toleration for those with different lifestyles and values, freedom, justice, and compassion for political opponents.
It is noteworthy because there has been a little bit of like loss that North Star among some on the left. In favor of focusing more on advancing specific progressive ends versus focusing on respect for fundamental values.

I think that's why it's noteworthy for him to really lean in on it.

Yeah, I mean, look, it's also beenorthy for him to like really lean in on it. Yeah.

I mean, look, it's also been a hobby horse of mine for the last several years.

So you're saying you put that in there? Well, no, this is what's weird about it. You and Barry just sitting around like going through some enlightenment, going through your Hume, you know, looking for a quote.
I will tell you, this is what's weird about knowing him for so long and writing for him since 2005.

He and I can go months and months without talking to each other. And then when we do, we suddenly both have like the same gripes about politics because we just like I learned to like not like write like him, but think like him.
So it's just like who I am now. But one thing that he did in a couple places was, you know, he says, like, we've got to respect people who don't look like us, who don't pray like we do, which gets all the liberals and progressives clapping, who don't come from where we come, right? Like they're like that.
And who don't believe the same things that we do about politics. And to him and to what democracy should be, that's all the same thing.
If we as progressives want to make sure that we treat people equally based on race and gender and sexual orientation and sexual identity, then we also have to treat people the same based on political identity. Like, that's the whole point of democracy.
You have to include that. Oh, man.
We're just getting so bulwark-pilled over here right now. It's unbelievable.
We're on bulwark Viagra on this podcast. I've never been so effusive about Barack Obama.
I don't know what's happening right now. There's one other thing we have to talk about while we're just praising Barack Obama.
It didn't get cut for time. I was noticing that you're trying to narrow things down, keep it sharp, keep it Favreauian.
But a lengthy aside about Barack Obama coming out as a Yimby was included. And I was cheering.
I was standing up on my couch, build more houses. Get rid of regulations that are stopping people from building.
I love that. Why was that in there? That's great.
From the beginning, one of the first things he said that he wanted to make sure that was in there. We have to be Yimby? He didn't say Yimby, but he was, you know, that was the, sometimes he sounds like me, sometimes he just sounds like Ezra Klein.
Right? Jerusalem Dempsus, we should give Jerusalem Dempsus some love. I think he's been reading the Atlantic, I'm telling you, I think he's been reading Jerusalem.
Maybe, probably listening to Ezra. Everyone's listening to Ezra, apparently, according to Semaphore.
No, that whole section was him wanting to say, look, we, and he's done this in his speeches when he was a nominee, which is like, we can't just be tied to like old ideas of the past and also think that we like, as Democrats and liberals and progressives, like we have a monopoly on all the ideas and that, you know, we wrong. Originally, he went on this whole thing about it's a lot of democratic cities that have zoning laws.
And I was like, we're not writing zoning laws in the speech. Oh, okay.
That was a bad cut. Can I get the draft on that? Can we leak the draft on that to the newsletter for this week? Just so we know that he's out there.
He's there. He's there.
Yeah. I know.
Some mismanagement in democratic cities. Yeah.
Oh, boy. Lovett and I were on the floor when he said that, and we started a Yimby chant, actually.
How did that go? Well, we were near the California delegation, and they didn't want to keep going. Looking forward, we've got two nights left.
We've got Walls and Kinzinger and Kamala Harris. I'm sure there'll be a couple other speakers that matter, but those are the key three.
Don't forget Bill Clinton. Why are we doing this? Can we just whisper about this? Why is Bill Clinton talking? Couldn't they have joint talked? I kind of thought that maybe this was the year where we finally like, you know? And I don't want to not honor him.
I don't, but how about like the Oscars? Instead of talking, you know how the Oscars, you get a lifetime achievement award. There's like a montage.
It's like the guy from Hope. We go up there and then he gets to walk out on stage.
Everybody cheers for him. And then he says, thank you.
And then he leaves. Like leaves like that's like that would be nice one thing about this convention is you can tell that most of it was planned when biden was going to be the nominee yeah and when kamala took over i think that you know they they wanted to like reshape the convention in her image but i think there's some things that they just couldn't like part of the problem with all of these politicians going up there and going over time and pushing everyone out of prime time.
I think it's just like, oh, they had been invited. And what are you going to do? Uninvite them, which maybe I would bet that's why.
Yes. And Bill Clinton does in his speeches.
He does something that the Obamas don't do that. A lot of other speakers don't do, which he explains things.
Well things well. He makes arguments and knocks down arguments from the other side in a really easy to understand way.
I think the key tonight that I'm watching for is like, Bill Clinton cannot knock Tim Walls out of prime time because his speech is like an hour long. All right.
So Walls, just really quick, rapid fire. What do you want from Walls? What are you hoping that he does? What's his main goal? I mean, I think everything that has made people love Tim Walls so far, right? Like I think he should talk about his, you know, he's going to talk about coaching.
He's going to talk about Minnesota. He's going to talk about like rural America, right? I think he's also going to build up Kamala.
Like again, understanding the assignment. I think he'll do that quite well.
And I heard you guys talking about this and JBL talking about this, but it's the same reason I love Tim Walls, which is he comes from this, the DFL Minnesota tradition. And it is a different brand of democratic politics and liberalism that is much more focused on sort economic populism and community than it is on a lot of the identity politics that we we sometimes get i do like that and i think that he can continue that theme where tim walls and just slowly but surely i'm getting there it's it's you know it's it wasn't immediate so it's happening slowly but surely once foot at a time betto's full-throated endorsement yesterday he was he was really like okay i must be missing something here i was like if beto's this excited i there's got to be something i'm missing but uh the thing i've liked about walls or the thing that i've liked the best of all of his rhetoric which i hope he includes is like how he diminishes trump in a different way than michelle but it's the same objective which is like can, can you imagine this guy having a blizzard? Like, can you imagine this guy going on a raft? You know, I like that.
Like, just like, be like a guy from Mankato who like, likes to do Mankato stuff and make fun of the fact that like Donald Trump doesn't, doesn't know anything about that. I like that.
Yeah. Michelle Obama and Tim Wall walls in different ways are like focus group participants talking about donald trump i mean literally in brock obama's case when he did the leaf blower line that donald trump was like your neighbor that was the weakest line i was i was trying to keep positive i thought the leaf blower thing was my was it didn't land but you know what he even knew it didn't land he like he paused and he was just like nope and then he kept moving i don't think the leaf blower is going to make it onto the stump in the fall it came from i think he got it from axelrod's been saying it and the reason that axelrod's been saying it and axelrod said this has said this on tv so it's not a secret but it came from an obama trump voter and a focus group really yes annoying leaf blower guy you've seen all these these focus groups too i had been surprised over the last year how many complaints about trump center around just the exhaustion yes right it's just like i am just so tired of this guy he's so annoying this is like tim walls is like can you imagine thanksgiving dinner yeah with this guy or i don't think he says that about trump but he says Thanksgiving dinner? When he's gone.
It was like, can you imagine Thanksgiving dinner after he's gone? It'll just be like a weight off everybody's shoulders. Yes, and it is this like, he's just so annoying and in our faces all the time.
So I think Walls will do that. All right, what about Kamala? Okay, blank page, how much? Her stump, since she has ascended to become the presum the presumptive nominee has been really tight and really good like just freedom like patriotism a little bit of her story contrast with trump in and out 20 minutes and it's been it's been good yeah she has a line or two textbook her kickoff speech in 2019 was in oakland and so i went there with toulouse and it was like the was state of the union i know that's like our shorthand for bad right yeah she felt like she was trying to appeal to every part of the democratic coalition like here's a little something for the bernies and here's a little something for the identity politics crowd here's a little economic populism and here's some women's stuff and glass ceilings right and it just didn't it didn't land and so and i think that that's going to be the challenge speech.
It's going to be a little longer than what she's been doing on the stump. So anyway, I'm wondering how you take that and what you think that she should focus on.
First of all, I think now that I look back on it with a few years, I think the 2020 primary brought out the worst in a lot of those candidates. Except Beto, who was fabulous, and he just brought out the worst in all of us.
Not you and and me but like all the political media class just didn't recognize what they had when they had it honestly I would say Pete Pete was Pete was who he is right he doesn't change at all he was true to himself God love him but also like and people like Bernie and Warren who are just like that's who they are right like that's they showed up as who they are I don't know I think Warren got a little bit off a little bit yes a little bit off of her true north well and because of bernie right and so like some of them were chasing bernie some of them were chasing something else and so it became this like competition and i think that she fell into that trap and she's now unburdened from that of course but she does have a lot of work to do and so like this is the tough part when you are the nominee is like, most people will give plaudits to some of the other speeches as the best speeches. And it's like, yeah, the reason the other speeches, the other speakers in the primetime can be better is because they don't have the work to do that.
You have to do as the nominee. Like, but I would expect her to really tell her story, talk about her family, and then also wrap it in this patriotism that we heard from the obamas like i think she'll do something similar about her own story and she's got to talk about her record right she's got to highlight the good parts about her record does she though i guess this so this was where i was going next because that's the one thing that i'm kind of like i think if i was cutting stuff from time i just probably wouldn wouldn't deal with it.
I just probably would do less.

I would talk more about her, contrast with Trump,

and her future vision.

You saw our friend, our good pal,

Scott Jennings on CNN last night. I don't know if you saw this.

I did not. You're not just sitting around in Chicago watching CNN post-game analysis?

You got friends, you got buyers,

you got fans you got to deal with?

Well, anyway, I'll tell you what happened

on CNN. It was fireworks.

Scott was fucking pissed.

Scott is like,

Thank you. fans you got to deal with well anyway i'll tell you what happened on cnn it was it was fireworks scott was fucking pissed like scott is like they don't even talk about the last four years and like how are they going to defend it and like his frustration you could tell that he's you can tell that they're frustrated yeah like that the democrats are quote-unquote getting away with this and i think that there's a defense to be had the, of the last four years that there's totally reasonable and that, that she should do if necessary.
But like, why, if you don't have to, I guess is my question. This is where I'll put my like strictly like polling political strategist hat on, which is, I think that she should do it quickly, the record stuff, and she should highlight the parts of her record that are incredibly popular.
So in the Biden administration, that's going to be beating Medicare. We beat Medicare.
We did. It's going to be the prescription drugs and some of the more popular elements of the Biden administration.
But then I think like what really pops in the polling is her work. Prosecut but even more so when she was attorney general like the housing settlement oh yeah and what she did for homeowners because housing is like a number one issue that no one ever talks about and she has a great story to tell on it except me and barack obama and jerusalem dems but she will i think she'll highlight like her work as prosecutor,

her work as DA,

her work as AG and a couple things

from the Obama administration

and then we're out.

I think you meant

Biden administration.

There are already

a lot of people out there

and a lot of conspiracies

about how it's been Obama

pulling the strings

behind the scenes

this whole time with Biden.

You're going to get in trouble with that.

You're not going to get in trouble.

That's going to be on Fox. Jesse Waters.
Jesse Waters. Hello, Jesse.
I know Jesse Waters is clipping that right now. Jon Favreau admits that it was Obama behind the scenes.
The puppet master was doing it the whole time. Either Jesse Waters or some folks in the Biden administration.
But yeah, no, I think... Jesse and Anita.
And she doesn't have to go into too much detail on policy because she did do her economic speech, her policy speech last week so she can sort of like highlight the most popular stuff and move on and then I think that it'll be a lot about values and patriotism and some of the themes that we've heard from the convention from some of the best speakers You it by accident, but we have a couple of conspiracies we have to debunk before we go, or affirm, I don't know. Last night on Fox News, Brett Baer was reporting via one of the Fox News reporters that Kamala Harris and Tim Walls were in Milwaukee last night, not at the convention, because Joe Biden is so mad at Barack and Michelle Obama that Kamala could not even be in the same room with them for fear of suffering his wrath and derailing the entire convention.
Do you think that was why she was in Milwaukee last night, or do you think it was a different reason than that? I am 100% sure that's enough. Wait a minute, I'm sorry.
You're doubting Fox's sources on this? I was extremely impressed, considering how Monday night went in terms of the timing and pacing, that what they did Tuesday night where the roll call is done, California puts her over the top, and then they immediately go live to her and Milwaukee with this big crowd in the place where Trump gave his convention speech

that's like a that's just such a move and it's like a real hard thing to pull off and I think that's why they did it that was very David Plouffe to me that's a very that's and Jen O'Malley Dillon who's been on our campaigns too yeah I'm not gonna give Plouffe the call on that whoever is running advance over there.

That was awesome.

The timing, and it just looked

so good in the fiserv forum it was crazy how good it looked and it was packed they had the huge freedom red white and blue signs people with the usa placards were back in uh in chicago i mean i was i was ready to kind of fly a eagle. The advance teams and the folks who pulled that off, it's incredible, incredible to pull that off.
Okay. So we've debunked that conspiracy.
All right, here's another one. I'm going to read you a quote here, and I'm not sure if it was from you or not.
But the dam has broken. We can put our heads in the sand and pray for a miracle in November, or we can speak the truth.
It was an important clarion call a couple months ago from one George Clooney. Were you the one that put the words in his mouth? And I did write that.
Did you write that op-ed? I did write that. I wrote every single word.
Are you ready to come clean on that right now? It's time. We're unburdened by the past, and you can admit it.
You were the one. The number of inquiries I got about that was so weird.
I think it must have come from somewhere, and I don't know where. I don't know where it came from.
It might rhyme with shmumida. It made me feel bad for George Clooney because I'm like – People are like, George can't write, dumbass actor.
And was and i had to explain to every reporter i'm like i've met clooney a couple times and he is one of the like smartest celebrities about politics he could do a podcast with us and he would know like all the inside he's like terminally online about politics like he gets it all he's very good at this and he's a great writer so yeah so it was not you it was not me um okay has you have you heard from george since i have not i have not there was that card game that barack obama was mentioning last night kind of you know that that the simple pleasures has it has it been you and george and him and nancy where you guys sit around doing a little texas hold them anytime the last would smoke a cigar that happened recently? I will say none of us were invited to the Biden family suite on Monday. You get to hang out with a lot of celebs.
Who is the most impressive celeb political mind that you've met? Political mind. Let's say that Lovett just went full survivor and was going to be a full-time reality show host and you needed to replace him.
And the investors in Crooked Media were like, we need a celeb. We need to add a celeb to the mix.
Who are you bringing in? Two people who come to mind who really could just be Pod Save America hosts. John Legend and Stephen Colbert.
Colbert. Are we sure Colbert could do it? Are we sure? Oh my God.
Colbert is a little too earnest for you guys though. You guys have become jaded over the years.
He's really not that. I mean, he's like earnest for the show he has and the position he has on that show.
Like he's on CBS. It's not like he's going to be us, but he, he knows a ton about politics and is very smart about it.
Very, very smart. Okay.
All right. Last thing.
I was listening to the Donald Trump interview with Theo Vaughn on my plane ride up to New York here today. I have not heard that yet.
I would probably not suffer through it. I'm not going to make the listeners, the vibes are too high right now.
You know, we're just, we're kind of just drinking lime out of the coconut right now. And we're not going to make people listen to Donald Trump and Theo Von talk.
I might do a separate YouTube video on that if people want to go over to YouTube. But there was one thing that alarmed me about it, and that was an ad that Theo read.
Theo, for people who don't know, is kind of like a bro podcaster. He's non-political, really.
He's from Louisiana, so I have some mutuals with him, so I've been following him for a while. He's like, he might almost have as many listeners as Pod Damn America.

I'm not 100% sure, but he has a lot of listeners.

MMA, this kind of stuff.

It's bro pod.

It's like Joe Rogan, just like one level down from Joe Rogan.

And a little less political even, and I think younger.

And the ad was for sendthevote.com.

And it's like, this is a nonpartisan group for registering voters. And I was like, what the fuck is that? And so I Googled it, and it is like this is a non-partisan group for registering voters and i was like what the fuck

is that and so i googled it and it is like a trump front uh that they are running ads on these like

bro podcasts to try to register these kind of non-political young men and so i know that this

is you know you're talking about this a little bit with walls and his job tonight but like

how can the democrats like get in the game on this it's a big red flag for me yeah me too look i think

I'm sorry. talking about this a little bit with Walls and his job tonight, but how can the Democrats get in the game on this? It's a big red flag for me.
Yeah, me too. Look, I think they're doing everything right so far.
Honestly, I think that part of the Walls pick was that. I think that as much, I was like, maybe we should do Shapiro first as well, as you know.
We're not talking about that. We're not going back.
We're not going back. We're not talking about that.
He's great. He's doing a great job as the governor of Pennsylvania.
But I also think Walls is a better fit for reaching those young men than anyone else would have been. I think Barack Obama can do that as well.
And it's very much on Obama's mind. Does he want to go on Theo Vaughn? Do you want me to help broker that? I think he'd do pretty well.
Look, i think obama could like go on rogan yeah i really do like why both walls and obama should be going on these like bro i mean honestly even someone like like bernie sanders goes on yeah bernie does do it bernie's been on theo he's the only democrat that's been there's some good people who should reach out i also think that there's a lot in project 2025 that i have heard from the bros that i know who are not super political and they'll reach out to me and be like did you see this thing about they want to ban porn you've got some college buddies that are concerned about the porn ban they're in their seventh year of their marriage they like i live in texas now like my porn hub isn't working no i moved I moved to Austin. What the fuck is happening, Fafs? Literally things that I hear.
I think that the side of the Trump GOP that is the J.D. Vance, Mike Johnson, monitoring his kids' porn intake with the app there, that shit is toxic with these younger men and you know you see like dave portnoy complain about it once in a while or barstool right and i do think that like highlighting that from a message perspective highlighting that is going to be important and then the messengers matter as well and you sort of like need guys who are not trying to like out toxic masculinity trump right but to like show a different version of it which is like and make fun of chill and cool and normal and and not like annoying and scoldy you know and still like be good people right all right well i hate it when i see the mega people do something smart and that send the vote.com had me feeling like they're doing something smart so let's do something smart back and get some some normal, chill Democrats on with those guys.
Favs, wonderful. You did a great job last night, even though you didn't do the dick joke.
I did think it was second. Michelle, and I don't know if that was herself or her team, who's in her little kitchen cabinet.
But whoever it is is better than you, because her speech was A-plus last night. Barack's was pretty good as well.
Thank you so much for coming on, man. Let's do this again soon.
Thanks for

having me, man. All right.
We'll see you later.

That's Jon Favreau. We'll be back tomorrow

with somebody funnier than Jon Favreau from

the Democratic Party, and then we'll get back

to your Never Trumpers after that. We'll see you all then soon.

Peace. I wipe my car, then I do the nae nae You talking to a late date I want a Kanye, yeah, not a Ray J So that's a no-no I'm a mate back and use a vop-vop This combo beat like Dre, ay I already know what you're trying to say I'm saying that you're a fella And I see you trying to hella About that ain't always right up I'm rocking for the money Cause that's what my mama taught me So your ass better show me some right now Stay down Boss, Michelle Obama Purses all heavy, get no products Boss, Michelle Obama Purses all heavy, get no products Boss, Michelle Obama Purses all heavy, get no products Boss, Michelle Obama Purses all heavy, get no products T-O-N-F-I-D-E-N-T, that's me, I'm confident Don't want your compliments, use common sense I'm a Mama Michelle Obama Shut your mouth, boy I think you know who run this house I ain't thirstin' for no bae, cause I already know what you're tryin' to say I said that you a viola and I see you tryna holla But that ain't how it's right I'm looking for the money cause that's where my mama got me So your ass better show me some respect Boss, Michelle Obama Purses all heavy, get no blood out Boss, Michelle Obama Purses all heavy, get no blood out Boss, Michelle Obama Poper's so heavy Get no word out I pledge allegiance To my independent girls And yeah Oh wow baby Yeah So if you with us Come on let me hear you hear you say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Boar Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.