Fred Trump and Will Saletan: An Alpha Emerges

Speaker 1 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovny, and Carise Van Houten.

Speaker 1 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 1 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal. Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 1 Why is Adam after the Tanner family? What lengths will he go to? One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 2 California has millions of homes that could be damaged in a strong earthquake. Older homes are especially vulnerable to quake damage, so you may need to take steps to strengthen yours.

Speaker 7 Visit strengthenyourhouse.com to learn how to strengthen your home and help protect it from damage.

Speaker 5 The work may cost less than you think and can often be done in just a few days.

Speaker 10 Strengthen your home and help protect your family.

Speaker 11 Get prepared today and worry less tomorrow.

Speaker 7 Visit strengthenyourhouse.com.

Speaker 12 Hey, everybody, a little housekeeping real quick, especially for the newbies. Remember, on Wednesday over on the next level feed, it is me and JVL and Sarah doing

Speaker 12 your more pure punditry, your straight politics into the veins. I've been also popping off some videos up on YouTube during the day.
Our YouTube page is really taken off.

Speaker 12 Make sure you've subscribed to the Bulwark on YouTube. Reminder about Dallas, September 5th.
We will be there with Adam Kinzinger and all your other favorites, thebulwark.com/slash events.

Speaker 12 Lastly, I've been starting to get questions again about that outro music, which, you know, I just take a lot of pride in.

Speaker 12 I love, you know, the little Easter eggs I'm leaving for you guys and the music on the way out. So if you want that playlist, it's on Spotify.

Speaker 12 We try to remember to put it in the show notes on Fridays, but we'll put it in the show notes today for folks that are looking for it. And up next, we've got a big show today, PAC Show.

Speaker 12 First, the first Trump on this podcast ever. Fred Trump, the third, Donald's nephew, has a new book out, has some

Speaker 12 pretty dark stories, frankly, that I think it's worth listening to. And then on the back end, Will Salatan to discuss the news of the day.

Speaker 12 Hello, and welcome to the Bulwark podcast. Another day and more good news for the forces of freedom and democracy.

Speaker 12 Ismail Hanye, political leader of Hamas, was killed by Israel in Tehran yesterday, days after the military leader of Hezbollah was taken out in Lebanon.

Speaker 12 And here at home, Kamala Harris was greeted by crazed fans at a rally in Georgia as her campaign momentum continues unabated. More on that with Will Salatan in segment two.

Speaker 12 But first, my guest today is Fred Trump, the son of the late Fred Trump Jr. and nephew of the disgraced former president.

Speaker 12 His brand new memoir, All in the Family, The Trumps and How We Got This Way, was released on Tuesday. Hey, Fred, I believe you're the first Trump to grace the Never Trump Bulwark podcast.

Speaker 12 So welcome to the Lion's Den. How are you doing?

Speaker 13 Thanks. I don't feel like it's the Lion's Den.

Speaker 12 I feel welcome. Okay, good, good, good.
Well, I have to start, though, by asking, I mean, my burning question about all this has just got to be, why now? You've written this book.

Speaker 12 I think you're aware that your uncle ran for president twice already, so there were plenty of opportunities to speak out about his behavior and about your family.

Speaker 12 Just wondering why you decided to do it in this moment.

Speaker 13 There are a few reasons. Number one, we actually didn't just start now

Speaker 13 or think about this book. And we've been advocating on behalf of...
people with intellectual and developmental disabilities for years.

Speaker 13 When Donald was inaugurated, just a few months later, my wife Lisa and I spent time down in Washington with various cabinet members, secretaries, an organization we've been involved with for a long time.

Speaker 13 To answer your question more directly, it really was we were waiting for William, who is now 25, to be settled in a group home.

Speaker 13 We didn't want to get involved in writing a book because we knew what the repercussions would be. So that's really the reason why we waited.

Speaker 12 You could have done some interviews or something, though. You know, it could have

Speaker 12 leaked this. You could have leaked some of the good, juicy stuff to me.
I don't know.

Speaker 12 I mean, you did, I guess for listeners who haven't read the book, you said you did vote for both Hillary and Biden, and so

Speaker 12 had opposed your uncle in both campaigns. But, you know, there were opportunities to speak out, right?

Speaker 13 Yes, there were. And

Speaker 13 personally, I have. I didn't feel like at that point it was the right time to get fully involved in the public in doing so.
But now is the time. It is, as you may know, I have

Speaker 13 not just said I will be voting for Kamala Harris, but I will be campaigning for her if asked, because I believe her policies are conducive to what I think is important for the future of this country.

Speaker 12 I do want to talk about your son, William. You have three children.
William is the youngest, as you mentioned, was dealing with medical issues and disabilities.

Speaker 12 I want to kind of talk about him and the relationship with Donald and all the drama surrounding that. But if if you don't mind, I want to go back to childhood first.
Can we start at childhood?

Speaker 13 My childhood?

Speaker 12 Yeah, well, yeah, sure. Or maybe your father and uncle's childhood as well.
Let's even go further than your childhood back.

Speaker 12 Your father, for people who don't know, Fred Trump Jr., died after a bout with alcoholism when you were young, you were in your teens.

Speaker 12 And I don't know, I feel like one of the skeleton keys to the former president and your uncle, both in kind of why he's so dangerous, but also, you know, maybe why he's not as dangerous dangerous as some people imagine in certain ways is just kind of the lack of love from your grandfather in the family, the daddy issues, maybe, the lack of empathy in the home.

Speaker 12 And I just kind of wonder, that's just me armchair psychologizing from New Orleans. So you lived it all in Queens.
I'm wondering what you think about all that.

Speaker 13 I guess you'd call me an armchair psychologist, too. Sure.
Childhood was interesting. Yes, we lived in a family that was dominated at the time by my grandfather, not a very loving environment.

Speaker 13 To give you an insight, as best I can tell, and again, I'm one of the only people that was there during Donald's formative years and kept a relationship through my childhood, during his business career, during his political run.

Speaker 13 So I know Donald. Back in those days, my father was expected to become the heir apparent.
to my grandfather. My dad didn't want anything to do with that.
He didn't.

Speaker 13 He had a passion for flying and he wanted to be an airline pilot.

Speaker 12 And he did.

Speaker 13 And during that time, he was basically belittled by my grandfather and by Donald. And the interesting part about that is

Speaker 13 my dad, Donald's older brother, gave Donald a pathway to be the heir apparent. Dad didn't want anything to do with it.
Knowing that, Donald still beat him down. And

Speaker 13 that's tragic. So the cruelty does exist in the family.
And you're seeing that through Donald's political career.

Speaker 12 My other side of that coin always is like, Donald, while he's not very empathetic, it would be the understatement of the year. I'm reading some of your stories about

Speaker 12 how he would storm off if your dad threw mashed potatoes at him, things like this. He also like deeply wants to be loved, right? He wants the attention.
He wants the adulation.

Speaker 12 And I do think, in some ways, maybe that's, he doesn't want to be hated, right?

Speaker 12 And I think that's an important thing to understanding him, even though, you know, maybe his actions don't always lead to that.

Speaker 13 As you were speaking, I was going to use the word adulation.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 13 And I was speaking to someone today, and what's happening now with Kamala Harris in the spotlight, it drives him crazy.

Speaker 13 It absolutely drives him crazy. I mean,

Speaker 13 he didn't coin the phrase, but any press is good press. Yeah.
And he's lived that for as long as I've known him, and that's a long time.

Speaker 12 Yeah, it's interesting. So you said that you knew him when

Speaker 12 the forward of yours. Your dad was older.
So you guys are only like, what, 18 years apart or something like that? 17, 16 years apart.

Speaker 12 One of the interesting little anecdotes I got from the book that I don't, maybe people have talked about this. Unfortunately, I know way more about your uncle than I wish I did.

Speaker 12 I wish I could kind of take a lot of time.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 12 part of my brain to like learn a language or do something useful.

Speaker 12 But unfortunately, I know a lot about him.

Speaker 12 One thing that surprised me about your book was you were talking about during your childhood when you'd go back to your grandfather's house and Donald and his late brother Robert were still living there.

Speaker 12 And I was like doing the math. And I'm like, he was in his mid-20s.
He was like living at home still, like after college? Well, for a short while.

Speaker 13 He did move into the city after a while. But remember, back in those days, he was working in my grandfather's company in Brooklyn.
So to live in Queens made it considerably more easy.

Speaker 13 And many times, many times, I witnessed, they would drive together.

Speaker 12 Into work.

Speaker 13 Into work in Brooklyn, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 12 I understand how that maybe makes sense and makes convenience, but it speaks to the nepotism

Speaker 12 element of it,

Speaker 12 even a little more significantly. When it was like after college, he goes into the family business.
He lives at home. He's commuting with his father into the office.

Speaker 12 I didn't think a lot about Donald in his 20s, I guess, but it was something that stood out. And so, you know, your dad then, talk about kind of the initial sort of falling out.

Speaker 12 You get older, you go off to school. You know, your dad is struggling with alcoholism and what was kind of happening in the family.

Speaker 13 Unfortunately, dad's last number of years, and he was sick. much of his adult life, you know, 30s on.
But in the last five years of his life, he was in and out of hospital a lot.

Speaker 13 And he died pretty much alone.

Speaker 13 I mean, you've read the book, you know, the scene when he basically is taken to Queen's Hospital alone in an ambulance.

Speaker 13 That unfortunately sums up the story of his end and how my family treated him, even in his near demise and his demise. Very sad.

Speaker 12 It's not long after that that,

Speaker 12 you know, kind of the seeds of the conflict between you and your sister Mary, you know, with the family happens when I guess Donald's having financial trouble. I like that you call him Donald.

Speaker 12 Donald's having financial trouble in the 80s, and that is when he comes up with this idea to restructure his father's, your grandfather's will to cut you guys out. Talk about that a little bit.

Speaker 13 Yeah,

Speaker 13 it's a tough story. And

Speaker 13 as you know, Donald was my trustee during those times. After my father passed away, Donald was my trustee, which

Speaker 13 I take to mean he is there to protect me.

Speaker 13 And when William was born, a day after or so, he started having seizures, hundreds of seizures a day.

Speaker 13 All the while, this plan had been hatched and was ready to be implemented. And sure enough, a couple of weeks after William got home, we got the notice that we were out.

Speaker 13 And I wasn't going to let that happen. And certainly Mary wasn't.
If there's one thing Mary is, is she is tenacious and she's going to fight. And she fought as hard as I did, if not more.

Speaker 13 We were very vulnerable, Lisa and I, at that point, as you can imagine.

Speaker 12 So you have a late father, you have a young family, your youngest child is in the hospital having seizures, having health problems, and you get a letter from Donald's lawyer that says, you're out.

Speaker 12 Right. You're out of will.
And then it is not long after that that there's, you know, some back and forth on this.

Speaker 12 And as a power play they they take away the health insurance that's correct yeah i mean that's that's insane like did you ever call during that period i mean he's your trustee he's your uncle your child is in the hospital with with a scary illness yeah we didn't know if will he was gonna live or die and that's again that is that's just a cold hard horrible fact yeah he was in the neonatal intensive care unit at sinai for three weeks now all my aunts and uncles live within a half a mile radius of Mount Sinai.

Speaker 13 None of them, none of them came to visit. In fact, one night I remember my grandmother, and we tried to keep this hidden from her, but once we realized the extent, we had to let her know.

Speaker 13 And she said,

Speaker 13 a couple of weeks in, I have a relative from Scotland and why don't you go out to dinner with them and just try to relax and have a nice night.

Speaker 13 So Lisa and I go into a restaurant to meet these folks, and who's sitting there? Donald and Melania.

Speaker 13 And we're probably 15 feet away from them walking to our table. And he shouts out, hey, I hear your kid is sick.

Speaker 13 And that was it. None of my aunts or uncles had ever met William, ever.

Speaker 12 How long after that he was born? Was that?

Speaker 13 That was probably about two weeks or so. Because we, again, we were at Sinai for three weeks.
So it was somewhere between two to three weeks.

Speaker 12 Sure. And then the months after, like when was,

Speaker 12 so now you're kind of embroiled in this legal battle where you guys are challenging the will that he cut you out of because he was going bankrupt. Yes.

Speaker 12 And they cut off the health insurance for your youngest child. And then he met the child when? Like a year later, two years later? Five? Never?

Speaker 13 About a year later. Yeah.
After we settled, and I have to say this, we settled. for the guy who says he never settles.
Well, maybe then I'm the champ here and Mary. And I have to give credit to Mary.

Speaker 13 She realized our situation and she wanted to go further. So I do appreciate that.

Speaker 12 You didn't get a cookie bouquet, you didn't get, you know, and he has assistance. At this point, he's on his third wife, so he's got assistance, he's got money, you didn't get, you know, he didn't

Speaker 12 send something over to the hospital. Absolutely nothing.

Speaker 13 We just got a lot of legal notices, Tim.

Speaker 12 That's pretty shitty. To be an understatement.
And in the book, it seems like you don't really even reconnect with him until around the Gulf then.

Speaker 13 Yeah, about a year after we settled, Donald had invited me to become a member at at the club in Westchester.

Speaker 13 And I said, the only way I'll do that is if we play around a golf together, which he accepted. We played around a golf.
It was nice. I always had a good relationship with Donald.

Speaker 13 I do want to say that. And at the end of the match, we got together, just the two of us, and he said, we're done, right?

Speaker 13 And I knew exactly what he meant. It wasn't, we're done, no more relationship.
It was, we're done with the animosity, right? And I I said, yes. And he actually hugged me, which

Speaker 13 he would hug me when I was four or five years old. But this, this was something it was, it was genuine.
It was.

Speaker 12 He probably could have used a few more hugs, it seems like.

Speaker 12 It might have saved us some problems down the line.

Speaker 13 You're going back to the armchair psychologist, I say.

Speaker 12 Yeah, so,

Speaker 12 okay. So he hugs you.
And then he comes to visit William, or you have, you know, I guess the family does do a, you know, kind of a medical fund at some point once all that is resolved.

Speaker 12 You write about an exchange where you talked about how it was a gene issue. The disability was genetic.
And Donald, how does Donald react to that?

Speaker 13 He said almost immediately, my wife, we had gone up to see Donald in his office, and my wife, Lisa, mentioned that, that he had a KCNQ2 genetic mutation. He goes, not from our genes.

Speaker 13 Not the Trump genes.

Speaker 13 Tim, if you don't mind, let me just go back real quick about that fund.

Speaker 12 Please.

Speaker 13 That fund

Speaker 13 is

Speaker 13 to help with Williams' medical expenses, all therapeutic, which insurance doesn't cover,

Speaker 13 necessary for him to have the healthiest life possible.

Speaker 13 That fund wouldn't have been necessary. I wouldn't have had to go to my aunts and uncles each year or so to ask for it to be replenished if that lawsuit didn't come.

Speaker 13 If they hadn't screwed around with my rightful inheritance, I would have taken the money that was due me from my grandfather's will and I would have done what I would have done with it to make sure.

Speaker 13 So I just want to make sure people understand that.

Speaker 12 That's a fair point. And on the other hand, Fred, you just got to think about it from Donald's perspective.
I mean, that money had other uses.

Speaker 12 He had to pay off the various women he was having affairs with. You know, there are other maybe more higher and better purposes of that money than your son's medical care.
Did you ever consider that?

Speaker 13 He was in deep financial straits. Not to minimize it.
He was on the balls of his ass at that time.

Speaker 12 Oh, God. Did he ever sell his penthouse apartment or stop riding in limos or get rid of the plane or anything? Did he ever suffer any consequences, personal consequences? Stop going to fancy dinners?

Speaker 13 No. I mean, the banks did put him on a leash back then, which must have been pretty humiliating to him.
Sort of an allowance, if you will.

Speaker 1 Get Ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 1 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 1 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal. Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 1 Why is Adam after the Tanner family? What lengths will he go to? One thing's for sure: the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 2 California has millions of homes that could be damaged in a strong earthquake. Older homes are especially vulnerable to quake damage, so you may need to take steps to strengthen yours.

Speaker 7 Visit strengthenyourhouse.com to learn how to strengthen your home and help protect it from damage.

Speaker 5 The work may cost less than you think and can often be done in just a few days.

Speaker 10 Strengthen your home and help protect your family.

Speaker 11 Get prepared today and worry less tomorrow.

Speaker 7 Visit strengthenyourhouse.com.

Speaker 12 I want to go back to Williams. So, not our genes.
I want to go fast forward to then when he becomes president. But in that intervening period, he's a reality show host.
You know, he's got time.

Speaker 12 Was he checking in, you know, coming to visit his nephew, offering any care, trying to make his life any better, more comfortable? Anything like that?

Speaker 13 Besides the money in the fund, which again was rightfully mine, there was no visits or checking in about William at all.

Speaker 12 So then he gets elected. As I mentioned, you said you'd voted for Hillary, but you do go down a couple times, once, I believe, for your aunt's birthday

Speaker 12 party that's held in the White House, and then another time to advocate for... Why don't you just talk about the advocacy meeting that you held in the Oval Office?

Speaker 13 That birthday was for Mary Ann's 80th and Elizabeth's 75th.

Speaker 12 Got it.

Speaker 13 So Donald offered to host it down in Washington. It was a nice evening.
The next morning, Lisa and I and the group that we were helping had a meeting with Ben Carson.

Speaker 12 Let's say he was the Secretary of Housing at the time. Was it about housing?

Speaker 13 Well, housing is a major issue with the complex disability community. So we figured that was a good start.
And Ivanka was great in setting that up, my cousin Ivanka.

Speaker 13 And we did, throughout the years he was in office, met with Alex Azar and various other parts of the executive branch. And it was great, culminating.

Speaker 12 The administration, yeah.

Speaker 13 Yeah, in the administration, I'm sorry, culminating in a meeting, first of all, in the cabinet room with Azar and Brett Jerouard, who you'll remember from COVID, who he was on the screen every day, and a few other governmental officials and me.

Speaker 13 And I remember saying, listen, folks, I'm the least important person in this meeting. Here are the folks that have been doing this and they're geniuses.
And it ended positively.

Speaker 13 And then we were ushered into Donald's office, the Oval Office,

Speaker 13 and we had a good 45-minute conversation. And we all dispersed.
I was called back in a minute later. Donald greets me with his usual, hey, pal, how's it going?

Speaker 13 And we spoke for a couple of seconds. And he goes, you know, those people, those expenses, they should just die.

Speaker 13 It's a pretty rough thing to wrap your head around when you hear that.

Speaker 12 Yeah. It's reminiscent kind of of the suckers and losers comment.
You know, there's really a through line that to

Speaker 12 people that, you know, have challenges or make sacrifices. It's like something that he really struggles to comprehend, it seems like.

Speaker 13 Right. Well, it goes back to that comment you made about the genes.
It's, you know, okay, these people are lesser than me, so they really don't, don't count.

Speaker 12 There's a race element to that, too.

Speaker 12 I wish I had it in front of me, but in Maggie Haberman's book about your uncle, I talks about, you know, there was one point he was dating a mixed race woman in between the various wives, and

Speaker 12 he's talking about that as well, like that she got this gene from the white side and this gene from the black side.

Speaker 12 He's very wrapped up on all that, it seems like. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 12 I want to kind of close the loop on Donald by talking about, I guess, is it your last meeting with him when you go back to again ask for additional help for the medical fund?

Speaker 12 I forget if it was at Trump Tower or Bedman Service.

Speaker 13 Yeah, it was actually a phone call, if you're talking about the fund, when I said, you know, Donald, it's running down.

Speaker 12 And

Speaker 13 he comes back with, your son doesn't recognize you. Let him die and move down to Florida.

Speaker 13 And again, you know, it's hard to explain

Speaker 13 that in any rational way, how somebody could say that. I wanted to make a joke in my head, like, okay, you want me to move to Florida? Are you trying to sell me a house near Mar-a-Lago or something?

Speaker 13 But it was just much more devastating than that. I mean, imagine hearing that from William's great uncle.

Speaker 13 It's still, you know, when I tell, and obviously I've been telling this story, and it was an impactful part in the book. But it was real.

Speaker 13 And again, this is somebody who never met William, who doesn't doesn't understand that the love that William inspires. And I say William is the most courageous and inspirational person I've ever met.

Speaker 12 Yeah, so he's never met his nephew's son. And when you call him to ask for a little assistance, given his medical challenges, his response is let him die and move to Florida.
Yeah.

Speaker 12 Was that when he was president still, or was that in the post-presidency?

Speaker 13 No, that was post-presidency.

Speaker 12 Have you spoken to him or anybody else in the family since he suggested that you let your son die?

Speaker 13 I reached out to Eric and said, I just want to let you know he said this. I saw Donald one time at the Bedminster course, and, you know, it was cordial, and that was it.

Speaker 13 I have not spoken to Donald since then. So it's been a number of years now.

Speaker 12 Well,

Speaker 12 too many positive stories about him before we get to William? Because that seems like somebody with a pretty dark heart to me.

Speaker 13 Donald was the first person to teach me how to play golf. We have that in common, and we've done it throughout the years.
And there were good BS sessions.

Speaker 13 You know, I saw him in a way that most people don't, just relaxed, calm. Those days, I think, are gone.

Speaker 13 I don't know if I'd like to play, well, forget about now, but even in the past couple of years, he has ramped up his

Speaker 13 ways.

Speaker 12 Well, before I lose you, tell us about William.

Speaker 12 How's he doing? What's his life like?

Speaker 13 No, I thank you for asking because it is so important to us. Medically, William is doing is doing fine right now.
The struggle that Lisa and I have and millions of people,

Speaker 13 let's be clear, the IDD intellectual and developmental disability community is millions and millions of people, which is why I have a national platform right now and I'm going to use it.

Speaker 13 We struggle to put together a meaningful day program for him and people like William, who is wheelchair bound, needs assistance with pretty much everything he does.

Speaker 13 So what we're really aiming for is to bring together the three things that we think as a base are important, which is better funding for caregivers, better training for caregivers.

Speaker 13 Let's get the housing situation. One size does not fit all for the disability community.

Speaker 13 There are different things that we need to wrap our heads around and get that right. Third is prevention.
And I think this will

Speaker 13 make sense to the folks on the right or what the folks on the right used to be. Prevention equals efficiency.
Efficiency means lower cost, better services. That's where we need to get to.

Speaker 13 And as I've been saying,

Speaker 13 there are a lot of partisan issues right now. Women's right to choose, the environment, guns.

Speaker 13 Advocacy for the disabled community has to be a bipartisan. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be a bipartisan issue.
It's something that needs to be addressed.

Speaker 13 So many lives could be impacted for the positive. For instance, if you don't mind, Tim, William uses a device that is an eye gaze.

Speaker 13 So he can, and we're not there yet because it takes special training to do this, but he can say, if he had the ability to point to a card that says, I'm thirsty or I'm hungry, just imagine the world that would open up to him instead of having to depend on people trying to figure out what he's looking for.

Speaker 13 Just imagine that life opening up a bit. That's what our aim is.

Speaker 12 My old boss Jeb was always just such a huge advocate in this space because he was like, you know, everybody needs to have an opportunity to live a life of purpose and meaning you know his father pushed through the ada and uh it still needs work but boy what a what a step forward that was well that should be a conservative pro-life principle unfortunately yeah doesn't seem like it's one for your uncle well i'm glad that william is getting the love that maybe your uncle could have used

Speaker 12 great giving love that's great we'll give him another kids a hug for us thank you for coming on the podcast the book is uh all in the family the trumps and how we got Got This Way.

Speaker 12 Fred, thanks for telling your story, and we'll hope to stay in touch.

Speaker 13 And hopefully, I'll get you on my podcast when it's up and running. All in the family, more to the story.

Speaker 12 All right, you know where to find me. Up next, our friend Will Salatin.
See you, Fred.

Speaker 1 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 1 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 1 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal. Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 1 Why is Adam after the Tanner family? What lengths will he go to? One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 2 California has millions of homes that could be damaged in a strong earthquake. Older homes are especially vulnerable to quake damage, so you may need to take steps to strengthen yours.

Speaker 7 Visit strengthenyourhouse.com to learn how to strengthen your home and help protect it from damage.

Speaker 9 The work may cost less than you think and can often be done in just a few days.

Speaker 10 Strengthen your home and help protect your family.

Speaker 11 Get prepared today and worry less tomorrow.

Speaker 7 Visit strengthenyourhouse.com.

Speaker 12 All right, we are back, fan favorite Will Salatan. So many ponies out there, we don't even need you to find the pony in the pile of shit out there right now.

Speaker 12 I mean, terrorists are getting killed, calm lamentum, the coconut moment, you know, well, we're just, we're, we're drowning in ponies. We're drowning in them.

Speaker 14 We get to work on the metaphor. We're not drowning in the pony.
But, you know, it's been like a whole pony week. It's been pony month.

Speaker 12 Yeah. Pink pony month.
All right. I want to talk about Harris.
Last night she was in Atlanta over on YouTube. I analyzed her immigration ad, which was just everything we've been asking for.

Speaker 12 You know, talking about her commitment to securing the border while blaming Trump for killing that border bill.

Speaker 12 Also threw in a little shot about how she likes to arrest gang members while Trump is trying to evade jail. I like that contrast quite a bit.

Speaker 12 But let's listen together to Harris last night in Atlanta talking about immigration.

Speaker 15 Donald Trump, on the other hand, has been talking a big game about securing our border, but he does not walk the walk.

Speaker 15 Or, as my friend Cuevo would say,

Speaker 15 he does not walk it like he talks it.

Speaker 12 You a big mego, Stanley?

Speaker 12 So, look,

Speaker 15 our administration worked on the most significant border security bill in decades.

Speaker 15 Some of the most conservative Republicans in Washington, D.C. supported the bill.
Even the Border Patrol endorsed it.

Speaker 12 It was all set to pass.

Speaker 15 But at the last minute, Trump directed his allies in the Senate to vote it down.

Speaker 15 Right.

Speaker 15 He tanked, tanked the bipartisan deal because he thought it would help him win an election.

Speaker 15 Which goes to show Donald Trump does not care about border security. He only cares about himself.

Speaker 15 And when I am president, I will work to actually solve the problem.

Speaker 15 So here is my pledge to you.

Speaker 12 So nice.

Speaker 15 As president, I will bring back the border security bill that Donald Trump killed, and I will sign it into law

Speaker 15 and show Donald Trump what real leadership looks like.

Speaker 12 We're quoting Migos. We're securing the border.
We're trashing Donald Trump for only caring about himself. This is politics, Will.

Speaker 12 This is politics.

Speaker 14 So Tim, I'm really, really confused. I'm really confused to have, is this what it sounds like to have a messenger who actually knows how to deliver a message?

Speaker 14 Because I haven't heard this for at least a year, a couple of years.

Speaker 12 Eight, maybe.

Speaker 14 So, first of all, can I take a victory lap for this? Not many people know this.

Speaker 14 You folks out there, Tim and I, pundits, campaigns listen to everything we say, and they do exactly what we write, what we tell them on

Speaker 12 our podcasts.

Speaker 14 And we've been telling, we've been telling Kamala, get out in front, get on the Lankford immigration bill, because this is your weakest issue, get out there and own it, claim it, say

Speaker 14 you're going to sign it and hit Trump for having killed it, right? And that's exactly what she's doing. She totally listened to us.
So of course she's done the right thing here.

Speaker 14 This is a great comeback for her, and it is her toughest issue, because not only is she answering the question about herself, which is, you know, I've been a prosecutor. I've worked on this issue.

Speaker 14 I am trying to do the right thing, although it's a difficult issue.

Speaker 14 She's also hitting Trump, and she's hitting him where it hurts, which is this larger theme that she gets to there when she says he only cares about himself. He deliberately killed this bill.

Speaker 14 This may be a Republican issue, immigration,

Speaker 14 but Donald Trump doesn't care about solving any of the issues, not crime, not immigration.

Speaker 14 He only cares about winning, and that's why he killed a bill that would have solved the issue or done something to help solve the issue in order to help himself get elected.

Speaker 14 And that is going to resonate because it does connect with the real central flaw of Donald Trump.

Speaker 12 Yes, exactly right. It addresses the issue.
Look, you're not going to win everybody over.

Speaker 12 People whose immigration is our number one issue aren't going to vote for Kamala Harris, but you are mitigating your weakness. But it also is layering up into that key message.

Speaker 12 The Biden team previewed that. That's what they said the campaign message was going to be.
We care about you. He cares about himself.

Speaker 12 It just was never executed. That is executed.
Here's another thing I like about it. Well, I think Kamala wants to win.
She can smell it. She can smell victory.

Speaker 12 You know, there are these moments where it's like, what could you do on immigration?

Speaker 12 You could try to appease all the stakeholders in the coalition. You could feel like you need to be very defensive about the record, about what was happening in 2022.
Here's somebody from the left.

Speaker 12 Here's a comment by one of the lefties who's upset about this. This is terrible.

Speaker 12 You're raising the salience of your worst issue, muddling the threat you claim to believe Trump represents, tethering yourself to an objective-awful policy package.

Speaker 12 No, no, actually, she's saying, I don't need to listen to the activist lefty whiners. Maybe when I get in there, sure, are there ways to make the bill better? Sure, policy-wise, sure.

Speaker 12 But when you're trying to win a campaign, this seems like the way to do it.

Speaker 14 To folks on the left about immigration, look, this is a real problem. This is not like a fake thing where you need to triangulate to score some points about like school uniforms.

Speaker 14 This is not school uniforms. This is a real thing.
Like

Speaker 12 border schools life forms completely out of control.

Speaker 12 Such a a 90s throwback. Sorry uniforming myself.
No, that's great. I love it.
That's great. You're right.
It is not that. It's a real problem.

Speaker 14 But there are these little phony Dick Morris issues. That's another callback to the 90s, right? Where you're just like, it's a symbolic thing.
This is a real thing.

Speaker 14 And wake up, people, because in other Western democracies, immigration has become a huge issue, helping the right.

Speaker 14 And it's helping the right because like there is a giant international business now in trafficking people across borders because we have a great deal. Come to the United States.

Speaker 14 It's a great place to work. We have a great economy.
And we have to like manage immigration. And if the Democrats don't do it, the right will.

Speaker 14 And so she's got to take this issue away from him and she's got to show that she is serious about controlling it.

Speaker 14 So I just think the left is wrong. And even if you don't agree with me about that, the overriding priority is to keep this authoritarian out of the White House.

Speaker 14 And she needs to do exactly what she's doing.

Speaker 12 Amen. There was one other thing that made me smell out that she's feeling herself.
She's feeling the victory.

Speaker 12 She has her eyes on the prize. There was one word that was not mentioned, kind of a

Speaker 12 proper noun. There's a name that wasn't mentioned in the speech yesterday in Atlanta, 20-minute speech.
You know what it was? It wasn't LeBron James.

Speaker 12 Was there another name you could think of that might not have been mentioned? Tell me. Joe Biden.
Oh, wow. Joe Biden.
Not even mentioned in the speech. And you know what?

Speaker 12 It's because we're not going back. Well, we're not going back.
And my mother had this line I've been meaning to use on this podcast.

Speaker 12 She always would say to us as kids at the end of vacation, she'd say, when it's over, it's over. It's time to go back to life.

Speaker 12 Sometimes you have moments in life for things, but when they're over, they're over. And you just have to embrace it and accept it.
And

Speaker 12 for Kamala, like the Biden/slash Harris administration, when it's over, it's over. It's time to move forward to a future of a Harris/slash whoever administration.
And that is smart politics.

Speaker 12 Might hurt somebody's feelings a little bit, but I also saw the convention lineup is out, has leaked. And well, not the full convention lineup, but the big names.
President Biden, day one.

Speaker 12 Again, exactly right. Could have had him on the last day in opening for Kamla.
Maybe he'll come out briefly, but his speech day one. It's like, then we're moving forward.
Right?

Speaker 12 And like, is this not just, it's a little ruthless, but it's ruthless in the way that you want. That's like, the stakes are high.
We want to fucking win.

Speaker 12 If that means we got to tack to the center on immigration and release some baggage from the last administration, then we're going to do that. Right.

Speaker 14 But the Biden thing, Tim, she's got to do this. She's got to be the alpha.
She is being the alpha. Look, you and I are sitting here talking about the strategy of it, where she positions herself.

Speaker 14 But for people who did not see what she did in Atlanta and what she's done at all her events since Biden dropped out, What really comes across is her poise. I mean, she's been the number two.

Speaker 14 And if you and I think back over previous vice presidents, I cannot think of one who emerged so quickly from the shadow of her boss or his boss in those cases with this kind of poise and confidence.

Speaker 14 She's projecting alpha, and that's absolutely essential because you and I can sit here and talk all we want about issues, but a lot of people look at that person and we're kind of chimps.

Speaker 14 That's what we are. We're like, are you ready ready to take over the tribe here?

Speaker 14 And she's showing that she has that. She's showing she is the number one.

Speaker 12 Exactly. Think about how this problem dogged H.W.
Bush and Gore, for example. You know, I mean, think about Gore.
And too, I feel like, you know, I was just

Speaker 12 a nerdy college kid or high school kid following this stuff, but I even remember kind of this discussion of, should he separate from him or should he embrace him?

Speaker 12 And like, that stuff like held over the whole campaign, you know. And she seems to have already turned the page on that in nine days.
Speaking of alpha, I'm listening to one more clip from Atlanta.

Speaker 12 Well, Donald,

Speaker 15 I do hope you'll reconsider to meet me on the debate stage.

Speaker 15 Because as the saying goes, if you've got something to say,

Speaker 15 say it to my face.

Speaker 12 Crowd seemed to like that one. Yeah.

Speaker 14 Again, I love this. So back to the alpha theme.
For her purposes, it's really important that she did this. Because she is a woman.

Speaker 14 Trust me, I've been looking at focus groups for the last couple of weeks. There is a lot of anxiety about whether a woman is, quote, you know, sort of up to the job.

Speaker 14 And there's a stereotype about women that they're not strong. This woman is projecting strength.

Speaker 14 She is projecting that she is in charge and she is not afraid, not afraid of anyone, certainly not afraid of Trump.

Speaker 14 But she's also, Tim, she's also connecting to Trump's weakness because he's a fake alpha, right? And we all saw when Trump was in Helsinki, what he does when he's next to a real alpha.

Speaker 14 He just bowed down to Vladimir Putin. And Kamala Harris is basically saying to him, I am a real alpha.
And she's betting that in the face of a real alpha, he is going to chicken out.

Speaker 14 And the fact that he has pulled out, at least so far, from debating her, just lends more credence to that case.

Speaker 14 So if she can add the sort of, I'm more of an alpha than he is, to the issue set that she has, I think that's a winning combination.

Speaker 12 This is why he has to debate her, right? This is why there's no way he actually ducks it. Right?

Speaker 14 I think so. If he thinks it's going to hurt him, he won't do it because because that's his overriding objective.

Speaker 12 We also have VP pick imminent. They've announced that they're planning a joint campaign swing next week, Kamala Harris and her vice presidential selection.

Speaker 12 So we know it's going to be coming sometime between now and, I guess, Tuesday of next week. There's an Axius report out this morning,

Speaker 12 which maybe we can take or leave.

Speaker 12 Wall Street, there's some circulation among the Harris donors that if you work in financial services, you you should be donating now because there's a law that bars you from donating to a sitting governor, a corruption law.

Speaker 12 Maybe that's just a CYA thing.

Speaker 12 Maybe that's

Speaker 12 some inside info, insider trading, if you will. And

Speaker 12 there's been increased buzz around Bashir potentially online. And of course, around Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania,

Speaker 12 the swing kicks off in Philadelphia. So you can take that for what it's worth.
Any thoughts about the imminent VP choice?

Speaker 14 I mean, mean, I'm a hardcore Mayor Pete fan. I'm bracing myself to lose this one just because there's these governors.

Speaker 14 And, you know, the hard thing for her, Tim, is she's got to make this decision so fast in a context that may change.

Speaker 14 Does she need Pennsylvania's electoral votes bad enough that Shapiro has it in the bag? That's question number one.

Speaker 14 She may make that bet and later regret it that she could have chosen based on other criteria. So I don't envy her this choice.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I don't either. I think if we're reading things correctly, that these guys, that Kamala Harris and her team feel like they're in it to win it.
They're smelling the White House.

Speaker 12 They are pivoting on some key issues to the center. They're doing what needs to be done about turning the page from President Biden.
To me, that ethos leads you to a Shapiro pick, right?

Speaker 12 Because it's like we're trying to maximize our chances. Nobody can see the future.

Speaker 12 Nobody can see a crystal ball, but it's just like in a key state, you have a governor sitting governor with a 61% approval rating.

Speaker 12 To me, that feels like where they're going, but I wouldn't bet my life on it or anything.

Speaker 14 Yeah, I don't know. And hats off, by the way, to the Tim Waltz fan club.

Speaker 14 I don't know how these guys managed to generate a boomlet for the governor of Minnesota, a state that Democrats pretty much have in the bag. But hey, congratulations.

Speaker 12 You know, the vibe of somebody that looks like, you know, he

Speaker 12 can fix a carburetor.

Speaker 12 There's something to be said for that. Josh Shapiro doesn't look like he can fix a carburetor.
So there is something to be said for that with Tim Walls.

Speaker 12 I want to talk about a recent article you wrote that was very Salatanian, which was titled, Here Are the Trump Threats That Should Actually Scare You.

Speaker 12 And it was, you know, a slight dismissal of some of these social media fad, pearl clutching things where Trump says something and he's kind of joking, kind of not joking.

Speaker 12 And you instead said, let's keep our eye on the ball and focus on the real threats here. So why don't you run through what you had in mind?

Speaker 14 Okay, so there's two parts to this. There's the part everybody hates, and then there's the part that everybody agrees with.
And by the, by everybody.

Speaker 12 Let's do the part everybody hates first. Let's give it away.

Speaker 14 The part everybody hates is, look, every once in a while, those of us in the anti-Trump coalition hear Donald Trump say something, and we're like, holy shit, he's like threatening to end democracy again, right?

Speaker 14 And like, sometimes we're just wrong. This wasn't one of those moments.
Look, there's been hundreds of these statements from Trump. Can we please not seize on the wrong ones?

Speaker 14 Here's the one that's got me. He was at turning point, what was it, Friday, and he said, you know, Christians, you won't have to vote again if you vote this time, right?

Speaker 14 And people took this as the, you know, he's saying there won't be any more elections because he'll end them because he's a dictator.

Speaker 12 He said this several times.

Speaker 14 He said this several times. And he, and then on Laura Ingram on Monday, he repeated it.
Can I just quote the version from Laura Ingram?

Speaker 12 Please, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 14 Listen to this and tell me whether he is saying that elections are going to end or whether he is saying, if you vote for me, I will solve the country's problems so you won't need to come out and vote again.

Speaker 14 He says, don't worry about the future. You have to vote on November 5th.
After that, you don't have to worry about voting anymore.

Speaker 14 I don't care because the country will be fixed and we won't even need your vote anymore.

Speaker 14 To me, it's like an open and shut case. He's saying, I will solve these problems, you Christians who support me, so you can go back to not voting like, as he says, they haven't been in the past.

Speaker 14 He's talking talking to his own supporters.

Speaker 12 That also has its own problems, like logical problems, such as you were already president once. So why didn't that work the first time?

Speaker 12 Philip said, if you can fix everything in four years,

Speaker 12 what happened the first time?

Speaker 14 Folks, to everybody who understands what a threat, Trump is, keep your eye on the ball. He is a narcissist.
What he is saying here is, I do not care what happens to this country. after I get elected.

Speaker 14 All I care about is me. Come out and vote for me.
You don't have to vote ever again. It is his narcissism.
It is not a threat to democracy.

Speaker 14 The other half of what I was saying in the piece is there's all this really bad shit that Trump is saying, and we're not talking about that. We're talking about this thing instead.

Speaker 14 So in that same speech to Turning Point, he said, as soon as I take the oath of office, I will stop the Biden-Harris administration's weaponization of law enforcement.

Speaker 14 against Americans of faith and against, frankly, their political opponent, singular, me, him. He's saying, as soon as he takes the oath of office, he is going to end the prosecutions of himself.

Speaker 14 He's going to tell the Justice Department to drop those cases. He also said he's going to, you know, get the January 6th perps out of jail.
He's going to pardon them. Like, that is the threat.
Okay.

Speaker 14 He is an authoritarian threat. Let's talk about that stuff and not the one we're misinterpreting.

Speaker 12 Concur. Anything other Project 2025 threats from kind of the wise will perspective?

Speaker 12 What are things that are people, there's plenty that people are hair on fire about, but what piques your interest the most?

Speaker 14 About the Project 2025 stuff, I mean, I just think it's hilarious that the Trump campaign, so they finally canned the guy who, or I don't, how are we supposed to say this?

Speaker 14 He voluntarily left the guy at Heritage

Speaker 14 who did Project 2025. And the Trump campaign puts out a statement about this, saying two things.
Number one, we had nothing to do with Project 2025. We have no influence over these people.

Speaker 14 And then the other thing that they said was, this is from Susie Wiles and Chris Lisa. They said, also, let this be a warning, basically, to anyone who claims to represent our campaign.

Speaker 14 Meaning, we did this. We had nothing to do with this.
We had no responsibility. And we made sure this guy got canned, which means they own it, which means they controlled this the whole freaking time.

Speaker 12 Yeah, nice try, Chris and Susie. But unfortunately, you chose a VP who wrote the forward to Kevin Roberts' book about Project 2025.

Speaker 12 Like literally, JD Vance, like Kevin Roberts is the head of Heritage Foundation, the mastermind behind Project 2025, has a new book coming out. Who wrote the foreword? JD Vance.

Speaker 12 Okay, so you can't, you can't do this. All right, it's not working.
We're going to end with people on bad news because we can't just be too happy.

Speaker 12 But, but really quick, any quick thoughts on the uptick in attacks from Israel?

Speaker 12 I mean, they've now carried out a successful, it seems like, attack both in Tehran and in Lebanon, which has its own potential risks, of course, of escalation.

Speaker 12 But, you know, on the other side of the ledger, leaders of both Hamas and Hezbollah taken out, which seems like unadulterated good news. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

Speaker 14 Tim, I get to be the lib on this one. I'm excited.
Yeah, please.

Speaker 12 Okay, great. Not unadulterated.

Speaker 14 Not unadulterated good news from my point of view. So, first of all, the guy that they killed was the political guy at Hamas, is Melhania.
He's the guy who was actually negotiating about

Speaker 14 the ceasefire and hostage release and all that stuff. So I'd be happier if they killed the military guy.
I mean, we still don't know whether they got the guy.

Speaker 14 I know it's like a Republican thing, we just kill that guy and that guy and that guy. But Tim,

Speaker 14 this is like al-Qaeda number three. We keep killing the guy, and then there's always another one.
It's been this way with Hamas, they killed the Sheikh back 20 years ago.

Speaker 14 They keep killing Hamas guys, and they keep, we're not going to kill our way out of the problem. But to me, the million-dollar question is: what does Israel want?

Speaker 14 Did Israel do this because they want to re-establish deterrence? Because the Hezbollah just killed a bunch of Israelis on the north, right?

Speaker 14 We're sending a message to Iran, get your proxies out of here. Did they do it because they want to score a big win so Netanyahu can say, we killed the Hamas guy, we're getting out of Gaza?

Speaker 14 That would be great, in my opinion.

Speaker 14 The third option is the scary one, which is that they need to keep killing people because the Israeli right-wing coalition, Netanyahu's coalition, needs to keep some kind of war going or they're going to fall.

Speaker 14 The government's going to fall. They need to keep the state of war.
That's the one I'm worried about. I hope that Israel will say, we got the biggest of the bad guys.
Now let's cut a deal and get out.

Speaker 12 All right. I appreciate your check on my exuberance there.
Okay.

Speaker 12 And to end with the other sort of sad news, with all this progress on the democracy side, our friend of the pod, Stephen Richer, there's primary in Arizona last night. A couple results of note.

Speaker 12 Carrie Lake won the Senate primary against Mark Lamb, who's a sheriff who really wouldn't have been much better, but maybe just who would have had the same policies as Kerry, but is not as just palpably crazy.

Speaker 12 And so probably good news for the DSCC there and for Ruben Gallego in the Senate race. On the bad news side, in a congressional seat, Abe Hameday won.

Speaker 12 Though this, there's kind of like an Iran-Iraq war situation there between Abe Hameday and Blake Masters, both election deniers who had lost in the last cycle.

Speaker 12 In some ways, Abe acted more irresponsibly in claiming that it was stolen from him than Blake did. So, I guess a modest point to Blake on that.

Speaker 12 On the other hand, Blake ran probably the most disgusting racist campaign that I've ever seen against Abe.

Speaker 12 Maybe not ever seen, but an extremely blatantly racist ad, like with pictures of Abe trying to make him into a terrorist because his last name is Homeday.

Speaker 12 So, it was kind of like an epoxy on both your houses situation, but Abe Homeday wins. Bad news, Blake Masters loses, Good news.

Speaker 12 And then the saddest news is our friend Stephen Richer, the recorder, who just acted so honorably in the face of disgusting, vile threats from Carrie Lake, from her supporters, about their imagined election fraud.

Speaker 12 He was primaried for, he's up for re-election for recorder, was primaried from the right and lost his primary last night. So cheers to Stephen for being a great American.

Speaker 12 And it's unfortunate for the state of our politics that

Speaker 12 people are still getting run out of office for simply doing the right thing. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, Will.

Speaker 14 Yeah, it's just sad. I mean, what you've just captured is two perfect bookends of what's wrong with the Republican Party.

Speaker 14 You got these whack jobs, so you got like two deniers running against each other in the race and the congressional race. You got Carrie Lake winning her primary.

Speaker 14 The Republican Party has normalized the election denial. There's no price to be paid in the party.
And meanwhile, they've excommunicated, or you're the Catholic, right? So is it, what's the word?

Speaker 14 Anathematized? They've anathematized telling the truth about elections, which is what Stephen Richard did. That is no longer acceptable in the Republican Party.

Speaker 12 Well, Stephen, as a Catholic, I absolve you. All right.
You have full absolution. Now you can go out, live your life, make money.
Me or as a Democrat next time. Who knows? I don't know.

Speaker 12 Life could be better for Stephen Richer. And the water is warm over here as former Republicans.

Speaker 12 We'll probably have him on the podcast in the coming weeks to talk about what's going on down in Arizona. We're sending him a lot of love.

Speaker 12 Thank you to Will Salatan, a man who walks it like he talks it or talks it like he walks it. Both ways.

Speaker 12 We'll be back tomorrow with another double header. Thanks to Fred Trump as well.
We'll see y'all tomorrow. Peace.
Walk it like I talk it. Walk it.
Walk it like I talk it. Walk it.

Speaker 12 Walk it like I talk it.

Speaker 12 You walk it like I tuck it. Walk it.
Walk it like I talk it. Walk it.
Walk it like I tuck it.

Speaker 12 Hey, walk it like I talk it. Walk it.
Walk it like I tuck it. Walk it.
Walk it like I tuck it. Walk it.
Walk it like I talk it.

Speaker 12 Walk it like I talk it. Talk it, walk it like I talk it.
Walk it like I talk it, walk it, walk it like I talk it. Take my shoes and walk a mile, something you can't do

Speaker 12 big talks of the town, big boy gang moves. Gang moves.
I like to walk around with my chain loose.

Speaker 12 She just bought a new ass, but got the same booze. Same booze.
Whipping up dope scientists. Whip it up, whip it up, cook it up, cook it up, screw.
That's my sauce where you find it. That's my sauce.

Speaker 12 Adding up checks, no minus.

Speaker 12 Get your respect and diamonds.

Speaker 12 I bought a plane chain roller Then bought they fame I think my back got scolding Yoshi cuz I swerved and lane

Speaker 12 heard you signed your life for that brand new chain I heard think it came with stripes but you ain't straight with the game

Speaker 12 Walk it like I tuck it walk it walk it like I tuck it walk it walk it like I tuck it Walk it like I tuck it Walk it like I tuck it walk it Walk it like I tuck it walk it walk it like I tuck it Walk it like I tuck it

Speaker 12 Walk it like I tuck it walk it walk it like

Speaker 12 The Bullworth podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

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