Adam Kinzinger: The New Axis Power Alliance

Speaker 3 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovny, and Carise Van Houten.

Speaker 5 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 3 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal. Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 1 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 5 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 8 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

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Speaker 14 Today, as 40 years ago, our armies are here for only one purpose, to protect and defend democracy. Here in this place, where the West held together,

Speaker 14 let us make a vow to our dead.

Speaker 14 Let us show them by our actions that we understand what they died for. Let our actions say to them the words for which Matthew Ridgway listened: I will not fail thee nor forsake thee.

Speaker 14 Strengthened by their courage, heartened by their value, and borne by their memory,

Speaker 14 let us continue to stand for the ideals for which they lived and died.

Speaker 14 Thank you very much, and God bless you all.

Speaker 10 Hello and welcome. It's the 80th anniversary of D-Day.
That was Ronald Reagan 40 years ago today at Pointe de Hawk with a pan to the fallen's memory, our values, and our allied democracies.

Speaker 10 I am pleased to have here today another American patriot and veteran Adam Kinziger, who's officially a Bulwark contributor now after years of being a kind of unofficial one. Yeah.

Speaker 10 So welcome aboard, Airman.

Speaker 12 Thanks, buddy. It's good to be with you.
And I feel a lot better today than last time. And I'm going to just jump right into this if I can because I'm pretty fired up hearing that.

Speaker 12 Like, it is so inspiring to remember what leaders used to be. And especially somebody like Ronald Reagan, who I love.
I'm sure I know you love. Like

Speaker 12 to see the Republican Party and how far it's fallen and how dare they hold Ronald Reagan up as an example. He would have nothing to do with them.
But that clip is from 40 years ago.

Speaker 12 If you think about it, when he did that, again, the distance from

Speaker 12 him to Normandy was basically from us to him at this point when I'm doing this, like, you know, that math.

Speaker 12 And it's like, you realize how fast time flies, but just how far we've fallen in 40 years, unfortunately.

Speaker 10 Yeah, that's, that's exactly why I wanted to play it. I watched the whole point dog speech this morning.

Speaker 10 And, you know, it's interesting because there are elements of it where even in his time, it's like, well, man, you know, it's been 40 years and we need to have resolve.

Speaker 10 We need to understand why our troops are still here. You know, at that point, Soviets are still in Eastern Europe.
And so he's talking about the fight against the Soviets for a bit.

Speaker 10 But again, the need for continued resolve, the need for righteousness, the need to be reminded how important the alliance is.

Speaker 10 Now we're another 40 years on, and just how

Speaker 10 much that sense has deteriorated on the right,

Speaker 10 of just of this notion that

Speaker 10 we have some responsibility, that it actually benefits us, you know, to help to stand stalwart and to potentially send troops or send weapons or send resources to our allies in Europe.

Speaker 10 Like you can just feel it collapsing like slowly but surely, like decade over decade.

Speaker 12 You really can. And you think about how much both things change and they stay the same.

Speaker 12 So, you know, when Ronald Reagan's giving that speech, I think you had mentioned yesterday on your podcast about how there was kind of this, you know, it used to be the 1980s left that was like anti-American, pro-communist.

Speaker 12 And, you know, you think of the context, Ronald Reagan's giving the speech, that movement exists, this kind of anti-American left. Today, it's the opposite.

Speaker 12 You know, I'm sure the far left is still anti-American. You see that, but they don't really exist much.
You don't see much of them. But on the right, I mean, by and large, it's an anti-American right.

Speaker 12 And who's the enemy in Europe right now? It's still the Russians. We may not call them the Soviets anymore, but it's the Russians trying to rebuild the Russian Empire.

Speaker 12 And this is a day where we should be looking with the same clarity we had 40 years ago and saying, look, how dare we as Americans leave our kids when our parents and grandparents...

Speaker 10 My grandfather, was your grandfather over there? Yeah. Yeah, same.

Speaker 12 He was, yeah. He actually went in.
He went in right after Normandy, trained stateside for a year, learned German, and we never got to know exactly what he did, except he operated behind German lines.

Speaker 12 And so, yeah, I'm very proud of him. But yeah, you think about it, like our grandparents left us this great country.
And now the people that are making decisions are doing the opposite.

Speaker 12 They're leaving their grandkids a country swimming in hate, swimming in division, swimming in anger, swimming in conspiracy. Why? Not because they really believe it, but because this makes money.

Speaker 12 This is awesome to be famous. It just, I hope this is a moment where we can look back and say, you know, in five or 10 years and say, we crushed the authoritarian movement here at home.

Speaker 12 You know, we did it overseas, crushing the Russians with the Ukrainians, you know, helping the Ukrainians, and we did it here at home too.

Speaker 12 And let it be another 40 years until we ever have to face anything like this again.

Speaker 10 That's another thing that Reagan was talking about in this speech. And he said, talking about what they were bound by that was the same as 40 years ago.

Speaker 10 We are bound by loyalties, traditions, beliefs, and reality. That's interesting.

Speaker 10 It's kind of wonderful why that was included in there, who he is referencing, who is in irreality at that time.

Speaker 10 I guess the sympathizers to the Soviets. But now, we could not say that now.
Joe Biden could not say that today. We are all bound and united in reality.

Speaker 12 Right, no, he couldn't. And you think about it, like from back, you know, from back in the day, when Reagan said that, maybe he was just sitting there going, we actually are bound in reality.

Speaker 12 I mean, that's something we took.

Speaker 12 yeah he's like look reality is reality we know the truth we may disagree on the truth and you know maybe he was referring to the to the the anti-americanism but the re the sad thing is

Speaker 12 today we don't have reality i mean one person's you know convicted felon is another person's hero.

Speaker 12 You know, I saw today on Twitter, you know, the Air Force Lieutenant Colonel that, you know, was arrested on January 6th is out of prison.

Speaker 12 And he was wearing the same uniform I wear, his dress blues uniform with his pilot wings and his ribbons, talking about how he was a political prisoner and crying and thanking Jesus for getting him out of prison and all this kind of garbage.

Speaker 12 And I'm like, you know what? Look, this guy has no understanding of Jesus. He has no understanding of the Constitution he swore to defend.

Speaker 12 But the sad thing is, there are so many people in this country that have been led to believe that he is a political hero because the people they trust are telling them that.

Speaker 12 Tim, it's just going to take raw political power power to beat these folks in November and then make sure that our kids are growing up, again, focusing on what it means to be Americans, what our history is, what it meant at Normandy, and why it is that we fight for what we fight for.

Speaker 10 Yeah, well, I want to listen to a little bit. I agree with all that.
I want to listen to a little bit of Joe Biden today.

Speaker 10 Some, you know, you can close your ears, some of the lefty listeners who are maybe not ready to accept that he is the imperfect but unbowed inheritor of the Reagan mantle.

Speaker 10 Maybe not not on everything, obviously, but certainly when it comes to foreign policy and just American democratic values. So I want to listen to just a little bit of him this morning in Normandy.

Speaker 10 And make no mistake, the autocrats of the world are watching closely to see what happens in Ukraine,

Speaker 10 to see if we let this illegal aggression go unchecked. We cannot let that happen.

Speaker 10 To surrender to bullies, to bow down to dictators is simply unthinkable.

Speaker 10 Were we to do that, it means we'd be forgetting what happened here in these hollowed beaches. Make no mistake, we will not bow down.

Speaker 10 We will not forget.

Speaker 10 Let me end with this.

Speaker 10 History tells us freedom is not free.

Speaker 10 If you want to know the price of freedom, come here to Normandy. Come to Normandy and look.

Speaker 10 Go to the other cemeteries in Europe where our fallen heroes rest. Go back home to Arlington Cemetery.
Tomorrow, I will pay respects at Pointe de Haque.

Speaker 10 Go there as well and remember, the price of unchecked charity is the blood of the young and the brave. In their generation, In their hour of trial, the Allied forces of D-Day did their duty.

Speaker 10 Now the question for us is, in our hour of trial, will we do ours?

Speaker 10 We're living in a time when democracy is more at risk across the world than any point since the end of World War II, since these beaches were stormed in 1944.

Speaker 10 Now we have to ask ourselves, will we stand against tyranny, against evil, against crushing brutality? of the iron fist. Will we stand for freedom? Will we defend democracy? Will We stand together.

Speaker 10 My answer is yes, and only can be yes.

Speaker 10 Not too shabby, Adam.

Speaker 12 Look, is it Reagan? No. Is it good? Yes, you know, but I don't think anything's Reagan.

Speaker 10 Was it unfair? Was it unfair for me to do that? We have a couple minutes in between, you know, for people to have the sing-song-y cadence.

Speaker 12 I'm sure there are people listening that are like, I was better than Reagan. Like, fine.
Okay, whatever.

Speaker 12 We're not, this isn't isn't figure skating judging let's talk about the content let's talk about the content content the content was great i mean you know look it's a time when this country and and honestly the world and europe needs this moral clarity and he did it now i guarantee you if that was donald trump there would be nothing similar to that he probably wouldn't have even gone let's be clear and he wouldn't have as he's talking known that the beaches were stormed in 1944 he'd have thrown out some weird date about you know when during the american revolution when we took over all the british airports or something like that.

Speaker 10 He probably has watched Saving Private Ryan. I'm sure, yeah, he probably has

Speaker 10 Saving Private Ryan.

Speaker 12 Might have been rooting for the other side, but, you know, no, but like, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's good to hear.

Speaker 12 And again, especially at a moment when he's not talking, you know, in just some esoteric way where it's 1990, we're at peace, you know, the world's kind of awesome.

Speaker 12 Every now and then we may have to bomb Bosnia, but that's about it. He's talking at a time when there is a real threat from actual Russia against freedom, and there's a real threat here at home.

Speaker 12 I don't think there's probably been given a speech at Normandy that has ever been during such a moment when that threat is actually in our face and real, as it is today.

Speaker 10 You made this point. Your little side there about bombing Bosnia made me decide we need to bring up one thing I haven't mentioned yet on this podcast.
Did you see this? That Jared Kushner.

Speaker 10 President's son-in-law has a recent contract with the Serbian government

Speaker 10 to do some building. We're going to build Mar-a-Lago, Belgrade or something.
And part of that deal is he has to build a memorial dedicated to all the victims of NATO aggression.

Speaker 10 A condemnation of the United States efforts to stop the ethnic cleansing of Albanians in Kosovo. So there you go.

Speaker 10 The whole family's picked aside.

Speaker 12 Here's the thing. Could you imagine if that was Hunter Biden that did that or something similar? Of course not.
I mean, that would be all over the front page news.

Speaker 12 Look, if I was an autocrat, here's what I would do: I would do a Trump hotel in my country because it would cost me probably, what, 500 million, I guess is the amount.

Speaker 12 And you would have the Trumps on your side in the event that he actually wins in November.

Speaker 12 So for Bosnia, $500 million is nothing much, probably funded by Russia, to be honest with you, because they're almost a client state. And you know who else is big in Serbia?

Speaker 10 Nicole Jean.

Speaker 12 Richard Grinnell.

Speaker 12 He has contracts in Serbia. He has been the one that is acting as kind of an unofficial diplomat for Donald Trump in Serbia.

Speaker 12 I have talked to people in that region that are like, I don't know what he's up to, but I guarantee if he doesn't end up in the cabinet, he's going to end up in some kind of an ambassadorship in that area.

Speaker 12 And it's only for corrupt reasons, only for corrupt reasons.

Speaker 10 Well, the other thing I wanted to bring up was related to Grinnell.

Speaker 10 We're so myopic and American focused always here, but listening to Biden talk about the threats to democracy, which are obviously very present with fucking Donald Trump. But it's true in Europe, too.

Speaker 10 The far-right parties in Europe are gaining steam. There is EU elections this week.
Who knows if the EU pollsters, how they stack up with the American pollsters? We'll see.

Speaker 10 But if they're to be believed, the far-right parties are going to be gaining. across Europe.

Speaker 10 The New Republic wrote this week about a secret far-right group chat with like Eric Prince and Tucker Carlson and some Romanian mercenaries and a bunch of other weirdos.

Speaker 10 I don't know if you saw that article.

Speaker 10 So I mean, this is, it's weird to say it like this globalist nationalist movement, but like there's a growing Axis movement across the globe of nationalists that want to undermine the alliance between, you know, free, democratic, small liberal countries.

Speaker 12 That's true. And so you look at Hungary, obviously, Orban, kind of the face of this.
Look at Slovakia now. Yep.
Is it Robert Fizzo, I think?

Speaker 12 He's out now of the hospital after an assassination attempt. And one of his first speeches was, in essence, anti-NATO, anti-West, pro-Russia.

Speaker 12 That's what I was, and obviously I don't want to see anybody assassinated or an attempted assassination, but I knew that this was only going to give him permission to be more anti-West.

Speaker 12 The AFD in Germany, which is the far-right party, is for the first time going to have a significant showing in elections, which, you know, let's keep in mind, even having a Nazi flag or even saying anything Nazi-related is illegal in Germany.

Speaker 12 Yet, you're starting to see basically the movement that has captured this. And, you know, you can can see how it's worked.

Speaker 12 Like, there was a stabbing by a Muslim of a police officer, and I was furious watching it. But they take those events and then they feed into the anger of people, right? These cultural clashes.

Speaker 12 And then you just look at South America, Central America. My wife is Salvadorian, Tim.

Speaker 12 And, you know, watching the Trumps and, you know, Matt Gates at Bukele's inauguration saying that this country is better than the United States of America.

Speaker 12 You ask any Salvadorian, they'll laugh at you if you say that, that that country is any better.

Speaker 12 Yes, crime is down because about 10% of the population, most of them, without any kind of a trial and without any kind of evidence, have been locked up in jail.

Speaker 12 Basically, they're just walking through neighborhoods and putting people in jail that fit the profile. And sure, it's safe.
But the problem is, and that's how dictators come to power.

Speaker 10 This is what they aspire to.

Speaker 12 Yeah, it's what they aspire to.

Speaker 10 That's what they aspire to, right? Okay. You know, there aren't any mass shootings in Guangzhou.

Speaker 10 There's certainly fewer than there are here. And like, that's just part of the deal, right? Like, the El Salvador model, I mean, if Trump had his drothers, like that's his model.
And he says it.

Speaker 10 He's like, we'll just do death penalty for the shoplifting. We'll do death penalty for drug dealers.
We'll put people in jail. We'll put migrants in jail.

Speaker 10 And he said it in the interview we were talking about earlier this week, you know, where he's like, you know, you'll get 10 bad guys and then there'll be one mother and maybe she did something, maybe she didn't, but that's kind of what happens, right?

Speaker 10 I mean, like, that's his system of justice.

Speaker 10 They're crying and whining about the working American system of justice where defendants have rights and we have basic liberties and there's unconstitutional

Speaker 10 protections. But no, he wants a different system that's fair to him and his cronies and everybody else.
It's like, yeah, well, if it's a borderline call, whatever.

Speaker 12 Yeah, that's right. Well, you look at, I think Ken Paxton the other day here in Texas said, all of crime is committed by 15% of the population.

Speaker 12 So if you put the 15% of the population in jail, we'd have no more crime. And yet he's probably saying that for shock value, but that's how they think.

Speaker 12 Of course, unless you're a January 6th insurrectionist, then you deserve pardon, you deserve praise. If you're a Bernard Carrick and very corrupt, you deserve a pardon.

Speaker 12 You know, Paul Manafort, you deserve a pardon. Everybody that's white and conservative and pro-Trump, that's the key, pro-Trump.

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Speaker 3 Get Ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 5 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 3 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal. Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 1 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 5 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 8 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 10 Speaking Speaking of criminals, you've got a couple that are on the intelligence committee, a couple of your former colleagues here. Big announcement.

Speaker 10 At Trump's request, reportedly, Mega Mike Johnson, the breeding bromance between me and Mike Johnson. It was never meant to be.
It has passed officially.

Speaker 10 At Donald Trump's request, he has put Scott Perry and Ronnie Jackson on the intelligence committee.

Speaker 10 I want you to explain to us the significance of that, but just for people who aren't quite as familiar with these guys' rap sheets, Scott Perry's from Pennsylvania.

Speaker 10 He was integral in the scheme to install Jeff Jeff Clark into the DOJ as part of the Trump coup attempt. He's had his phone seized by the feds.

Speaker 10 He was complicit in the part in the effort to seize voting machines. You guys were on the January 6th committee, uncovered much of this.

Speaker 10 And then Ronnie Jackson was the doctor, the White House doctor, who was demoted by the Navy after an investigation where he was getting all fucked up on trips and harassing women and being drunk while on the job.

Speaker 10 There's a recent video from last year outside of a rodeo where he's yelling at cops, telling them that he's going to fuck them up.

Speaker 12 so these two you know confederates these two upstanding individuals are now on the intelligence committee yeah and so here's the thing quick primer on the intelligence committee yeah please every other committee in congress is extremely partisan you know for the most part foreign affairs wasn't but it was kind of going that way But the intelligence committee is the thing that, I mean, literally they sign off on kill orders, you know, covert action.

Speaker 12 They know about everything going on in space and everywhere else. These were always seen.
They're appointed by the Speaker, only by the Speaker and the Majority Leader. There is no other confirmation.

Speaker 12 It was always seen as the committee that you have to put the grown-ups on, that can put aside, no matter what the debate is of the day, and actually do the real work of national defense, particularly with intelligence.

Speaker 12 You know, it kind of devolved in the Trump eras under the shift time.

Speaker 12 And then, you know, they came in, the Republicans came in in Turner, and they basically made a decision we're going to go back to nonpartisanship. And they have.
They've done a good job of that.

Speaker 12 But they have adults on there. Instead, now Mike Johnson has put these two on.
And I just read today that this has taken Mike Turner, the chairman of the committee, by complete surprise.

Speaker 12 Johnson didn't even have the gohonies to go and talk to him and tell him. He just announced it.
And literally, Turner read about it when we did in the paper.

Speaker 12 There were so many other good people that have been trying to get on the Intel Committee for many, many terms. And so Scott Perry, as you said, he was basically the driving force behind January 6th.

Speaker 12 If there was only one congressman that we actually could have subpoenaed, forced to testify, and gotten records from, for me, it would have been Scott Perry because he was the one talking to Donald Trump.

Speaker 12 He was the intermediary. When Donald Trump said, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressman, Scott Perry, I think, is who he was talking about.

Speaker 12 I served on the Foreign Affairs Committee with Scott Perry.

Speaker 12 Scott Perry was the most partisan member of that committee to the point where Mike McCall, I saw him a number of times, yell at Scott Perry because he's like, what you're doing is blatantly political at a very important time.

Speaker 12 And Scott Perry didn't care. Okay, so he's a danger.

Speaker 12 Not to mention the FBI has seized his phone and they will have some oversight into the FBI, particularly into the counterintelligence side of things. Ronnie Jackson is a joke of a man.
He is a drunk.

Speaker 12 He still has Admiral, by the way, on his Twitter profile. He was demoted to captain to 06.
So technically, what he's doing is stolen valor.

Speaker 12 And this guy tweets pro-Russian, anti-American, anti-democracy garbage every day.

Speaker 12 So these two individuals are going to not only make the Intel Committee probably dysfunctional, I have no faith that they would actually keep the secrets they learn secret.

Speaker 12 And these are the kinds of secrets that even I in Congress did not get to know because it's like what's basically the extreme national defense stuff. I don't get it.

Speaker 10 What would be an example? I guess you can't give us an example of a secret you don't know, but like, you know, just what category of things would fit into that?

Speaker 12 You know, a lot of it is like, you know, if I get briefed on something, even on the Foreign Affairs Committee, for instance, if they say, which I did get briefed on, like, hey, we know for a fact that Russia is invading Ukraine.

Speaker 12 Okay. And so they were briefing me and McCall on this in like September.
Well, what you would get on the Intel Committee is. Okay, here's how we got that information.
Here's our source, right?

Speaker 12 Here's what assets we're using. You know, the Intel committee knew about the nuclear weapon in space before anybody else did.

Speaker 12 And, you you know, remember when Turner came out and said everybody needs to get briefed on this?

Speaker 10 Sent that weird press release about that.

Speaker 12 Yep, yep. And now we know the Russians have a nuke in space.
This was actually launched not that long ago. So it's that kind of stuff, like pretty serious stuff.

Speaker 10 I mean, let's just put our conspiracy hats on for a second. This isn't the Joe Rogan podcast, but, you know,

Speaker 10 we can let our imaginations go a little bit. The report that Trump wanted this...
That just doesn't sit right with me. It's just like Donald Trump knows what the committees do.

Speaker 10 Like, I just refuse to believe that Donald Trump knows what the congressional committees do. Right.

Speaker 10 So there must be somebody around him or somebody that's communicating to Mike Johnson that wants some stooges on the intelligence committee. Why? Like I just I'm trying to understand motive here.

Speaker 10 Say what you want about Mike Johnson. He's done whatever Trump wants.
So that part checks. But he hasn't like done this kind of just reckless nonsense for no reason.

Speaker 10 Like there has to be a reason for this.

Speaker 12 Did Donald Trump call him and say, I want them on? Maybe.

Speaker 12 Maybe Ronnie Jackson and Scott Perry, who've been doing Donald Trump's dirty work really wanted on the Intel by the way Scott Perry's statement when he took this appointment at least Ronnie Jackson's was like I look forward to doing this work as a military officer whatever Scott Perry said it was something like I look forward to not just taking the basically the deep state intel industry's word for it and having a deep dive on what's really going on like holy crap so anyway I mean it's possible that Donald Trump just these guys called him and convinced him and he's like okay yeah I'll do it It's also possible that you take somebody like Cash Patel, right, who's got Donald Trump's ears.

Speaker 12 Yeah, right.

Speaker 10 So let's just play that out. Let's say Cash want, why would he want people on the Intel Committee? What would be the advantage? Leaking?

Speaker 12 They are sympathetic to his viewpoint. As I mentioned, both of these guys are sympathetic to Russia.
Both of these guys have voted against aid to Ukraine, as an example.

Speaker 12 And if you're going to put somebody on, Cash Patel, for instance, you know, they're going to want a leak on the committee. They're going to want to know what's happening on the committee.

Speaker 12 They're going to want their guys there. And so it could be, you know, anything as simple as that reason.

Speaker 12 But, you know, if you take somebody like a cash patel and somebody like these guys, there is a real desire, and I actually mean this, a real desire that there be like an authoritarian right-wing movement and they never have to face elections again.

Speaker 12 And if you can get somebody that's sympathetic to that on the Intel committee, that's a huge win.

Speaker 10 Well, okay, one more thing.

Speaker 10 I want to get into the mass delusion since Donald Trump's been arrested, but since you mentioned Ukraine, one thing I wanted to ask you about, there has been, I guess, what seems like a policy shift, like a little taking the handcuffs off maybe Ukraine or giving them a little bit more wiggle room to attack Russia on Russian soil in certain cases.

Speaker 10 Like talk about that policy change and whether it's significant, whether it's good enough, just how you kind of assess it.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I mean, look, it's significant. It's good.

Speaker 12 I'm still a believer that, you know, look, everything anybody knows about warfare, including me, is if you're a country that is being aggressed against, if you're being invaded, you have a law of armed conflict right to attack any legitimate military target in the attacking country, period.

Speaker 12 We had for way too long handcuffed Ukraine on this. So they had to send their flimsy drones.
They'd go hit like oil refineries, but they weren't able to really respond to military targets.

Speaker 12 So this pressure, which once again, now I want to put this in the context of between Biden and Trump, Biden is far better on Ukraine. Okay, so let's just reckon.
There is no other choice on Ukraine.

Speaker 12 But this administration has continually slow-walked, whether it's weapons, whether it's authorities, whether it's anything, until all this pressure comes on, and then they're finally like, okay.

Speaker 12 So this is a positive move because now they can defend themselves around Kharkiv.

Speaker 12 They can attack, you know, groups of military vehicles or people that are gathering for an attack, but I still think they need to have their handcuffs taken off in a bigger way.

Speaker 12 And they also apparently have limited or said they cannot use the ATACMs, which are the long-range missiles that we gave them against Russian territory, which is nonsensical given that Russia is constantly being supplied by North Korea and Iran with the same kind of missiles, even longer-range missiles, by the way, to attack Ukraine.

Speaker 12 So I don't understand the restriction on the ATACMs. Quick story, ATACMs are our old stuff.
This is stuff we made in the 1980s that is defeating the best Russian air defense out there.

Speaker 12 We even have better stuff now.

Speaker 10 There's two important sub points to that I just want to highlight. One is, yeah, our old shit is still dominating the Russian.

Speaker 10 Every once in a while, there's some times where there's a rhetoric that's a little overkill about, you know, the Russian capabilities here.

Speaker 10 Like, we should be a little bit clear-eyed about what's really happening over there.

Speaker 10 But just the other thing is just like on the question of replacing this stuff, this is another reason why it's good that we're giving them equipment because we now get to build new equipment here that's even better, which is good for jobs, better for military preparedness.

Speaker 12 Anyway, yeah, and you think about these ATACMs, a significant amount of them were actually actually put aside to be destroyed.

Speaker 12 Some of them were these cluster munitions, and now we've given them to Ukraine. Now we can replace them.

Speaker 12 They actually reopened the ATACMs line now. This is great for the U.S.
industrial complex. And by the way, the S-400, we used to think it was this vaunted missile defense system of the Russians.

Speaker 12 Remember the Turks were going to buy the S-400? Maybe they did, and we were scared to death about it. The S-400 is being crushed, crushed by our old stuff, whereas the Patriots are not.

Speaker 10 Second person to praise the u.s military industrial complex on this podcast you and jake alkinclaus

Speaker 10 you and jake alkinclaus sometimes you gotta have it sometimes you gotta have it saying that's not happening on pod save america okay um let's talk about the something that might be uh the mass psychosis that's happening within the party i was on nicole yesterday i've started to decide that i want to frame this up as like this is the big lie 2.0 because it's just groundhog day like we're seeing the same exact shit that we saw with the election lie about how trump didn't really lose and how he he won now with the fact that how Trump wasn't really convicted, it was rigged, etc.

Speaker 10 The premise of the lie is the same. It's to help protect Donny Trump's little ego and help protect his propaganda sheen that he's some tough winner or whatever.

Speaker 10 So the premise of the lies are the same. The way that they're being executed is the same by attacking American institutions.
You know, it's saying that things are rigged and broken.

Speaker 10 Our election system's fucked, our legal system's fucked. The way that these guys are coming to his defense is exactly the same.

Speaker 10 If anything, worse this time, it feels like they're even more in lockstep with the lie than last time.

Speaker 10 I mean, they were very in lockstep with the lie, but you know, there was you and Liz that were on the front lines.

Speaker 10 And then there's kind of another group of people that weren't really going along with it last time. Everyone's going along with the lie this time.

Speaker 10 And then there's the radicalization of the people that are listening to the lie. I mean, it really does feel like a carbon copy of what happened with the election lie.
And we saw how that ended.

Speaker 10 It's exactly that.

Speaker 12 And, you know, with each time that you have to compromise your integrity, you have to compromise what you truly believe.

Speaker 12 You think about it, the first major, I mean, obviously throughout Trump's tenure, there were moments where everybody had to compromise what they believed to not piss him off.

Speaker 12 But on the big lie, yes, there were a number of congressmen that just stayed quiet.

Speaker 12 When they were asked about it at Lincoln Day dinners, they'd maybe riff on how bad the Democrats are, but they didn't say much in public. But that is just a little compromise of your soul.

Speaker 12 And now the requirement of

Speaker 12 this thing is that not just you say, oh, well, let's let the jury system, you know, determine this, like Larry Hogan did, and got disowned by the party and by the Trump folks.

Speaker 12 By the way, they need Larry Hogan. The fact that they're willing to say that to him shows this has nothing to do with the idea of politics or Republicans being in control.

Speaker 12 This is a cult whose sole purpose is to help one man.

Speaker 12 And so, yes, the constant compromise of what you believe in your soul has led to this mass psychosis where basically everybody is trying to one-up each other on the more extreme things they can say, the more disabusing of reality that they can do.

Speaker 12 I mean, Ron Philip Kowski can post something about literally every day Trump has gone golfing. And I guarantee under there, there's probably comments about saying this is fake news, not true.

Speaker 12 He's the hardest working American there is. He's out there fighting for us, despite the fact that you have a picture of Trump with golf clubs in his hands.
But that's what this has become.

Speaker 12 And honestly, I think a significant amount of the particularly rabidly Trump base doesn't care what's true or not. They don't care.
All they care about is what's being said and what they can say.

Speaker 12 And if it's not reality, they don't care. I feel bad for these people in the long run, but we have to defeat these people in the short run.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I don't know if I feel bad for them, but I'm with you on the defeat.

Speaker 10 I look, just circling back to the theme of of the podcast in the top, there's so many people who know better that are going along with this that I just don't think are allowing themselves to consider like how dire the consequences of this type of rhetoric is.

Speaker 10 And if you just think about the Reagan speech and you think about the Biden speech and how a crucial part that underlies all of this is the shared values element of it, right?

Speaker 10 That this alliance is not just about safety.

Speaker 10 It is, but part of the reason why it is works and why it's been so powerful is that we have shared values, we believe in democracy, we believe in the rule of law.

Speaker 10 These other guys do not share our values, they believe in the iron fist, right? They believe in you know getting theirs and screwing people over and doing whatever

Speaker 10 they need to. It doesn't matter what the law is, doesn't matter, you know, whether the people give them power, right?

Speaker 10 Like there is a contrast in systems between ours, freedom, liberty, rule of law, and theirs of a despot.

Speaker 10 And by advancing these lies, they are contributing to the Russian argument that, no, there is no difference between our systems, that those talking points were all just a bunch of bullshit, that the U.S.

Speaker 10 system is also politicized, and we also jail our political enemies, and that our elections are rigged just like Russian elections, right?

Speaker 10 Like the whole message out of the Republican Party and Fox is in lockstep with the Putin message. And people are believing it.
It is.

Speaker 12 And people are believing it. And I feel like, this is the scary thing.
I don't know how to put this in words. I can only feel it.
So I'm going to try to put it in words. I feel like four years ago,

Speaker 12 like, you know, internally to people, they would still, like, they would care about that.

Speaker 12 I feel like now we have crossed a Rubicon. Now, again, this is not everybody, but a significant amount of the MAGA base or the Fox News base.

Speaker 12 We've crossed a Rubicon where what you just said, these people share the same values as Putin and not us.

Speaker 12 I feel like we've crossed a Rubicon where there are people inside their heart going, yeah, yeah, that's true, and we don't care.

Speaker 12 Like, Vladimir Putin, to them, for some reason, is this vanquisher of the left, which they hate more than authoritarianism.

Speaker 12 And if authoritarianism is the way to go after, to hate, to own, to lock up the people that they hate that wear purple hair or that have, you know, drag story time or whatever, then they will go with authoritarianism because to them that aligns with their values more than this idea that you can be whoever you want in this country.

Speaker 12 And the sad thing, Tim, is it took us two world wars and 80 years to inculcate this idea into people that democracy and freedom, freedom of choice, freedom of individualism matters, and it's been destroyed in a short decade to a significant amount of people.

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Speaker 10 There was a column yesterday by Guy Benson over at Fox, who's this guy at Fox.

Speaker 10 It's like somebody I think knows better. And like, you know, he's been at Fox, hasn't voted for Trump either time.

Speaker 10 And he writes in his column yesterday that because of the brag indictment and how he feels like things are politicized, he's thinking about voting for Trump now. And I just come on.

Speaker 10 I just want to shake him. I just want to shake him.
Be like, what? Like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 12 Like, this is how he is not because of Bragg. This is the thing.
Whenever they say this, like, I'm because of Bragg, I'm like, bull crap.

Speaker 12 He is doing this because this will alleviate the discomfort he has to deal with by being a not Trump voter.

Speaker 12 And this allows him to convince himself that this is the reason why everything he stood for, he's no longer standing for. This is just a self-reassure.

Speaker 12 You see this, you see this in the, you know, the anti-anti-Trump people all the time desperately finding a reason to blame the left for why they now have to support Trump.

Speaker 12 And all they're doing is soothing their own conscience. I cut you off.
I'm sorry, but that is a big crawl.

Speaker 10 No, no, no, please. I'm glad you're coming up.

Speaker 10 But this is why I want to shake him because it's just like, has it sunk in that like by creating this post hoc rationalization to feel comfortable that somehow Alvin Bragg and the Democrats are as bad as Putin and Jailing Navalny or whatever, that like that you're giving aid and comfort, that you are just adding one small brick to this effort to undermine the American,

Speaker 10 you know, the whole American system, the American idea. Like, that's like what I just want to get through to him.

Speaker 10 So this is why I occasionally Adam Need, you know, just to make sure I'm not the crazy one. Like I need somebody, I need to drink from somebody's cup of real talk.

Speaker 10 And so here's Ala Pundit over at the Dispatch, who I just adore. We've had some dispatch people on that I disagree with on this number, but Allah and I are totally aligned.
Here he is.

Speaker 10 If you can't muster a vote against Trump, your conscience should not be clear. It's a matter of answering this question.

Speaker 10 When you had the chance, did you do everything in your lawful power to spare America from the completely foreseeable authoritarian nightmare that awaits? You didn't.

Speaker 10 You couldn't be bothered to check a box on a piece of paper that might have prevented it, knowing full well that some battleground states of 2020 were decided by as little as 10,000 or so votes.

Speaker 10 Well, then you are partly responsible for what comes next. I just want to send that to all those guys.
I want to send if you guys have an uncle in your life that's on the fence, send them.

Speaker 10 We'll put it in the show notes. Send them a la.
I'm too never Trump cucked out sometimes for

Speaker 10 people to buy that this is legit. Like Allah starts this column by talking about how he liked Trump's immigration policy, which I disagree with him on.
So anyway, but that's good.

Speaker 10 That's credibility giving to some of these far-right guys. But like, why just like that seems so obvious to me, right, Adam? Why isn't everybody saying what all is saying?

Speaker 12 Because it's too hard. It's too hard.
Take somebody like Guy Benson. Look, I like Guy.
He's a nice guy, right?

Speaker 12 But, you know, like, take somebody like him who's now saying, well, I'm looking to go to Trump maybe because of this. He's going to do more damage.
than somebody that's been with Trump for 10 years.

Speaker 12 Yes. Because he's now giving a permission structure for somebody that's been sitting there struggling with like, I want to vote Biden just because, but I, you know, I'm more aligned.

Speaker 12 Like, now when they read, guys, they're like, you know what? He's got a point. And if he, who I respect, is going to now vote for Donald Trump, then I can.

Speaker 12 And I can soothe my conscience with knowing that somebody else has made that decision for me.

Speaker 10 Yeah. All right.

Speaker 10 The one other thing on this, and there are a million other things we could talk about, but one that you were posting about yesterday was in addition to, you know, giving aid and comfort to Vladimir Putin's effort to undermine the American system, as if that wasn't bad enough.

Speaker 10 You guys are also just kind of common crooks. I mean, like, this is

Speaker 10 such a griff. They are robbing people.
I said this at the time. It's another parallel to Stop the Steal.

Speaker 10 You know, the rhetoric and the text messages and the emails that are going out to MAGA Americans, a lot of them elderly people, is just the world is ending. The world is on fire.

Speaker 10 You need me to save you. All of it is going into Donald Trump's pocket and Donald Trump's lawyer's pocket.
It wasn't actually doing anything. And, you know, he banked millions.

Speaker 10 And now they are all doing it again. They're just robbing people blind with lies about the rigged justice system.

Speaker 12 You know, one of the things we saw in the January 6th committee was actually that the emails, the number of emails people were getting during the stop to steal, sometimes up to 10 or 15 a day with headlines like, you know, Pelosi wants to kill your family kind of stuff, actually did as much to radicalize people as anything.

Speaker 12 I mean, imagine that message 10 times a day, you know, in your email inbox. Eventually, that's going to radicalize you.
This is elder abuse, Tim.

Speaker 12 And I'm just going to take the senior citizens, and I think this goes obviously beyond senior citizens. But what's the difficulty with fighting elder abuse?

Speaker 12 The difficulty is you have a caregiver, for instance, that comes into the home, convinces an older person to give them money.

Speaker 12 That older person who has agency is making a legitimate legal decision to give somebody. And so, you know, how do we write a law to say you can't do that? It's the same thing in politics.

Speaker 12 When you radicalize senior citizens to believe that they are defending their grandkids by giving to Donald Trump because Nancy Pelosi wants to kill them, that is elder abuse.

Speaker 12 And in many cases, they're dipping into their social security checks when they can't pay for medicine and food to give money to Donald Trump because they have been radicalized for a decade on a steady diet of Rush Limbaugh and then Fox News.

Speaker 12 And families, Tim, are being blown apart.

Speaker 12 There are senior citizens that should be spending the last few years of their life enjoying their grandkids, relaxing, and they're spending the last few lives, years of their life, more angry than they have ever been, shortening their life and destroying their families.

Speaker 12 This, to me, is one of the most egregious, disgusting things of Donald Trump. The stain on this country he will be, he's killing a lot of people.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 They're thieves. It's thieves.
It's stealing.

Speaker 10 It's just, it's straight, it's straight thievery from old people, from our elders, from some in the greatest generation, uh, from some people who are, you know, we saw some of those veterans who were there in Normandy, were there with Joe Biden today, and they're stealing from them.

Speaker 10 And yeah, you're right. And it's also that emotional thievery as well that you're talking about, right? Like they're robbing them of what should be years of peace and love.

Speaker 10 You have them in your family. I get emails from people all the time that are like, my parents have a great life.

Speaker 10 They're eight and they're like living in fear, like that some fucking migrant caravan is going to come to their door.

Speaker 12 And real quick, think about this. So they're sitting around angry.
You know, lives and families are being destroyed. Why?

Speaker 12 Because Donald Trump is radicalizing them to raise money and because Fox News has hooked them to sell ad space. They have used them as a commodity to make money and basically throwing them out.

Speaker 12 That's what's happening to families today in this.

Speaker 10 One more on policy, then I got a fun one. We can laugh.
We got a point and laugh at the end. It's the only way to survive this.
Got to.

Speaker 10 On immigration, I wanted to get to this yesterday, but you're in Texas, so

Speaker 10 you're not exactly on the front front lines of this in the out in the burby burbs but you know your state is on the front lines of this you know biden makes the policy shift this week by executive order to try to do something to curb the asylee issue at the border now the border crossing number is quite a bit down actually over the last couple months but still it's it's still an elevated level particularly people trying to get asylum in this country thoughts on it just on the policy and the politics is it meaningful is it not too late look i think it was smart to do because he actually took the language out of the, you know, the bipartisan compromise in terms of shutting down the border.

Speaker 12 Yeah. He ticked off the left and ticked off the right.
Usually that's how you know you have a good policy. Look, he's not going to be able to win on immigration.
I think we have to accept that.

Speaker 12 But to the extent he can dent the intensity of the right on immigration and to the extent he can go to the debate, for instance, to say, look, I tried to get this done. You know, whatever.

Speaker 12 I did something. I did more than you did.
I think it's good.

Speaker 10 You scuttled it, actually.

Speaker 12 Yeah, yeah, exactly. You scuttled this.
Like, I think that's beneficial. But here's the one thing.
I get it.

Speaker 12 Right now, they're kind of hiding a little bit that they did it because they've ticked off the left. You've got to put this front and center.

Speaker 12 I read, I don't even know who wrote this article, but I read something a couple days ago where it was basically like, if Joe Biden is able to go after these issues that the center cares about, he can win.

Speaker 12 But if they continue to worry about, you know, what people are saying about Gaza or whatever, when it's literally ranked number 15 on the list of concerns, it's going to be tough to pull this one off.

Speaker 10 I kind of think that the reality on the ground is probably more important than the policy.

Speaker 10 And so if the policy helps, even on the margins, curb the influx for a few months, that's probably worthwhile.

Speaker 10 And I think that Biden can speak to principles and values on this stuff too, in a way that Trump can't. And I might be this lone person on this.
The Republican strategy on abortion, right?

Speaker 10 Like the Republicans obviously had this radical abortion agenda, as we've seen in your state.

Speaker 10 We talked about at length yesterday, but their strategy to kind of neutralize it was always like, well, the Dems are the radical ones. What about partial birth abortion? What about late term? Right.

Speaker 10 And that worked.

Speaker 10 Just straight as a blood. We're just talking about as a political strategy here.
That worked. The Democrats sometimes feel like unwilling to try that on social issues.

Speaker 10 And I feel like I'm the lone person here, but as much as people are unhappy with the influx influx of migrants at the border, the majority of this country does not want 15 million people on buses and massive camps across Texas and local law enforcement shaking people down, you know, to check their papers because they have brown skin.

Speaker 10 Like some people want that. Some people want it.

Speaker 10 The key voters in this election, I don't think, want that. And I think if Biden can kind of try to retake the middle on this and highlight the extremism, I think there might be something there.

Speaker 10 Maybe I'm naive.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I agree. And, you know, to the Democrats listening, look, you don't get, this is something I learned in 14, 15 years in politics, and Tim knows this well.

Speaker 12 You don't get to choose what the American people are upset about.

Speaker 10 Fox credit gets to pick.

Speaker 10 They do get to pick. We don't get to pick.

Speaker 12 If the polls are saying the number one issue is immigration, sorry, you don't get to ignore that, or you can ignore it at your own peril.

Speaker 12 So, yes, finding a middle ground on immigration, recognizing that this country can have a liberal small L, a liberal immigration system that allows a lot of people in.

Speaker 12 But we have every right as Americans to know who's coming here and to control who's coming here and to pick who's coming. We have every right to do that.
There's nothing wrong with it.

Speaker 12 Every country in the world does that. So to get a middle ground and then, yes, paint the Republicans as, you remember the Ellian Gonzalez, who was it in Florida that got

Speaker 10 yeah.

Speaker 12 My goodness, that was a huge issue. And that was just one kid.
Imagine now 15 million people being torn apart, you know, by this. Like paint the Republicans as the extremes on this because they are.

Speaker 10 Yeah, Ellian was a radicalizing moment for me as an early teenager.

Speaker 12 Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy.

Speaker 10 And my last thing on this, this is not a political message, but I just always feel like I need to say this when this immigration issue comes up.

Speaker 10 It's actually a good thing that people want to come here.

Speaker 10 And in some ways, it actually undermines the whole American carnage message.

Speaker 10 If things were so bad here, if the country was in such economic turmoil, if Joe Biden had ruined America, then there wouldn't be fucking hundreds of thousands of people begging to come.

Speaker 12 Right. And by the way, for the small business, you know, enthusiasts in the GOP, the majority of small business starts are by first-generation immigrants in this country.

Speaker 12 Because when you're here, third, fourth, fifth, sixth generation, you tend to be comfortable. You tend to be a little less interested in risking it all.

Speaker 12 And so you see that most small business owners now in this country are first-generation immigrants. That is the kind of energy we need in America.
And we have a record low unemployment.

Speaker 12 You don't grow by having a shrinking population. You grow by having a growing population.

Speaker 10 Duh. One billion Americans.
Okay. Final thing.
We've had the right stuff segment on here.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 you know our buddy.

Speaker 10 This is going to be the person that is going to be determining who's hired if Donald Trump wins again. So we just like to just check in on his inner thoughts from time to time.

Speaker 10 So this is the right stuff.

Speaker 10 This is a good one, Adam. Are you ready for this? Yeah, I am.
Let's take a listen. Cash is freedom.

Speaker 10 That's why they're getting rid of it you know that right oh my god what the fuck are these people talking listen dude first off

Speaker 12 johnny mcatee is the biggest ass bag that has ever existed i'm serious okay terrible man and then what he's doing is feeding into this like cashless society conspiracy theory These people are just,

Speaker 12 they're just insane. And the problem is people are going to see that and be like, yep, that's why they're getting rid of it.

Speaker 12 It's nuts. It's nuts.

Speaker 10 People, this is why we have the right stone segment. We are still the normal ones.

Speaker 10 People just need to know. People just need to know what these fuckers really think.

Speaker 12 Okay, Adam.

Speaker 10 People just need to know what they really think. I think that is our secret weapon over the next five months.

Speaker 12 Mass psychosis.

Speaker 10 Brother. Thank you.

Speaker 10 Welcome aboard officially, even though it's been unofficial for a while. My good friend, Adam Kinzinger.

Speaker 10 Cheers to you as a veteran, and especially to all the veterans listening and to the heroes that were there on that D-Day. It's a wonderful anniversary.
We'll be back tomorrow with an extended mailbag.

Speaker 10 If you have any life advice for me, Bullwork Podcast at the Bullwork.com. Big mailbag tomorrow.
Fun guest. We'll see you all then.
Thanks to Adam Kinzinger. Peace.

Speaker 10 We'll meet her again.

Speaker 10 Don't know where.

Speaker 10 don't know when

Speaker 10 But I know we'll meet again

Speaker 10 some sunny day

Speaker 10 Keep

Speaker 10 smiling true

Speaker 10 Just like you

Speaker 10 always

Speaker 10 do

Speaker 10 till the blue sky

Speaker 10 drive the dull cloud

Speaker 10 far away

Speaker 10 So will you please say hello to the folks that I know Tell them I won't be long

Speaker 10 They'll be happy to know it was you saw me go

Speaker 10 I was singing

Speaker 10 this song

Speaker 10 We

Speaker 10 meet again

Speaker 10 don't know where

Speaker 10 don't know when,

Speaker 10 but I know we'll meet again

Speaker 10 some sunny day.

Speaker 10 The Bullard Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

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