Sarah Longwell and A.B. Stoddard: Won't Get Fooled Again

Speaker 6 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovny, and Carise Van Houten.

Speaker 2 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 1 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 8 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 2 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 7 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 2 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close. Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

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Speaker 11 It might seem like the 2024 U.S. presidential election is happening in a vacuum, but it will have global repercussions.

Speaker 12 All of America's allies are thinking very, very hard about how they should reconfigure themselves in case an isolationist president is in the White House.

Speaker 11 Swamp Notes from the Financial Times brings you insights on the race through an international lens. You can listen to Swamp Notes on the FT News Briefing podcast every Saturday.

Speaker 10 Hey, everybody, wanted to update you on the Colorado event in my hometown. Remember earlier this week when I said that the event might sell out and you should get your tickets fast?

Speaker 10 Well, it did sell out. And I'm glad you got your tickets fast because now we're moving to a bigger venue.
We're hitting the big time here at the Bulwarks.

Speaker 10 So if you did not get your tickets or if you're on the wait list, go to thebulwark.com slash events. And you can get your tickets now.
I think the bigger venue might sell out too.

Speaker 10 So you should get on it. It is June 21st in Denver.
There won't be a basketball parade, but we will still have a good time.

Speaker 10 I'm going to be interviewing Governor Polis, and then we'll be taping the next level with me and Sarah and JVL. After that, we might have some other stuff for you.

Speaker 10 So it should be a fun evening in Mile High City, beautiful in June in Denver. Hope you come and see us then.
It's thebulwark.com slash events. Get your tickets now.
Up next, our friend A.B.

Speaker 10 Stoddard with a bonus appearance from Publisher of the Bulwark, Sarah Longwell. See you on the other side.

Speaker 10 Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.
It's Memorial Day weekend. You can sense the American carnage out there.
Record travel numbers at all of the airports.

Speaker 10 More people traveling than any time in history. So take a little extra time for security lines if you're headed to the beach.
I'm delighted to be here. Memorial Day weekend is for the girls.

Speaker 10 I've got my colleague, Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark, A.B. Stoddard, columnist at the Bulwark.
Thanks for being here, guys.

Speaker 14 Great to be with you.

Speaker 13 What's up, Timmy? What's up?

Speaker 10 So I had two overwhelming pieces of listener feedback over the last 36 hours. The first, people were dying to know how Sarah was emotionally processing the the Nikki Haley betrayal.

Speaker 10 So we've added her to the first segment of this podcast. I told you A.B.'d be here.
But before that, I do have to comment on the second piece of feedback I've been receiving about how I'm a moron.

Speaker 10 So I don't know. Do y'all know the difference between immigrate and emigrate?

Speaker 13 Isn't immigrating come here? Wait, no, I don't know.

Speaker 14 That's what I thought it was.

Speaker 10 Ooh, that's making me feel better. Pop quiz, go ahead, A.B.
Come on, spit it out.

Speaker 14 No, now I'm hesitating. I thought you emigrated out and you immigrated in.

Speaker 10 A.B. is a woman of the world.
That's what I thought. No, that's what Sarah was suggesting.
Okay. Well, you both had it correct then.
As usual, my colleagues are my betters.

Speaker 10 My listeners are my betters.

Speaker 10 Here's the thing. I come from a long line of Hoosiers from South St.
Louis. All right.

Speaker 10 Like when we moved to Denver, they thought we were getting pretty, you know, they thought we were getting pretty international. They're like, oh, my God,

Speaker 10 you're in a different time zone. You live in Missouri.

Speaker 10 You know, so we just, we didn't talk a lot about immigrating. I didn't know any expats.
And I always thought immigrating was kind of like the fancy, just like the fancy word for immigrants.

Speaker 14 With an E.

Speaker 10 And so, um, many listeners told me that I was an idiot over that. And I appreciate the view.
I love that we have smart listeners. You know, I can bring up like mRNA vaccines or something.

Speaker 10 I'll get an email from somebody that's like, I was the one that researched the mRNA vaccine. So we have great smart listeners.
I appreciate that.

Speaker 10 I appreciated the first two or three people who corrected me. The 712th person that corrected me, I was a little less excited about, but such is life.

Speaker 10 Nikki Haley, this happened on Wednesday afternoon. So you've had now two nights to sleep on it.

Speaker 10 She said about Trump, he's totally unhinged, not qualified, doesn't deserve a driver's license, wants to be the king, is disgusting. Everything he has said has been a lie.
She's voting for him.

Speaker 10 Sarah, we want to know how you're feeling about that. Talk to us about your emotional journey with Nikki Haley's betrayal, predictable betrayal, but a betrayal nonetheless.

Speaker 13 Yeah, I mean, I'm in my feelings, guys. I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 10 I am.

Speaker 13 And it's my own fault. I understand.
Like every time,

Speaker 14 because here's what happens.

Speaker 13 I've watched Nikki Haley. And sometimes at live shows, I'll talk about how there's nobody I'm more disappointed in.
Like you're like on your list of people you're most disappointed in.

Speaker 13 And this is even before. I would say Nikki Haley.
And now, part of what people have to understand about me is.

Speaker 13 how much I had invested back in my Republican days in the idea that Nikki Haley was the future of the Republican Party. And this is the Nikki Haley that took down the Confederate flag.

Speaker 13 This is the Nikki Haley that talks about immigrating, not immigrating, immigrating, or really immigrating here. And so she talks about America with an immigrant zeal, which I always love.

Speaker 13 My mom came here now from England, but like there's something when somebody comes here, like as a teenager, right? And they see America through the eyes of coming from a different place.

Speaker 13 And like, as a result, my house is covered with sort of like Americana. Like over the mantle, the founding fathers are signing things.
And I grew up with that.

Speaker 13 And there's this old picture, and it's not even, it's not that old, but there's this picture of Marco Rubio, Tim Scott, and Nikki Haley from the 2016 2016 primary.

Speaker 13 And I remember just deeply thinking, like, that's the future, guys.

Speaker 13 Like, there's going to be a socially moderate, sort of economically sensible, but free market, American leadership in the world party that's going to look different 15 years from now.

Speaker 13 And I want to be part of that party. And so Nikki Haley has just always held a special place for me.
I always thought she'd be the first woman.

Speaker 10 president. She also thought that.
I know.

Speaker 13 I know. And watching her debase herself through the Trump years was extremely hard.

Speaker 13 But I remember when she stepped down as UN ambassador, I walked out of my office and shouted to everybody in earshot, Nikki Haley's quitting. She's going to primary Donald Trump.
This is great.

Speaker 13 You know, and I've been wrong about Nikki Haley every time. But here's the thing that happened in the primary.
I knew better. But still, at some point in the primary,

Speaker 13 it just sounded like she meant it.

Speaker 13 It sounded like she'd found her moment, start telling the truth, and she felt good about it, and people were responding to it and she was going so far out there in what she was saying he'll side with Putin who's a madman he is unfit to be the president you're like well this is not saying you don't like his tax policy this isn't saying he's too old this isn't just saying he'll lose these are like hard to walk back now obviously I heard her the whole time kind of slip in there that Biden was worse which is

Speaker 13 that wasn't a clue that was a little clue no it's a clue I knew I knew what was happening I just kind of thought she might withhold the endorsement.

Speaker 13 And part of what is like extremely shocking to me about how she did it is after saying that Trump was going to have to come and sort of, you know, earn her vote and her supporters' vote, he did no such thing.

Speaker 13 In fact, I'm not sure he did anything but treat her like garbage continually. Certainly didn't reach out to these voters.
She was not a movement leader.

Speaker 13 Now, look, I've been on my media grievance tour here about Nikki, and I just do want to say that I think more than anything, she was an avatar for people's anti-Trump sentiment.

Speaker 13 Like that is what she was showing up on the ballot as, a place for people to put their votes without feeling sick to their stomach to register their anti-Trump feelings.

Speaker 13 And those people, I think, will still vote against Trump. But I don't want to undersell.

Speaker 13 I think it matters that she came out and endorsed him because we are going through a moment right now of a bunch of Republicans coming to terms with the fact that they've got to say somehow they've got to like fake the idea that Joe Biden is worse than the coup guy.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I want to get into the political thoughts and kind of analyzing the quote-unquote Haley voter next, but A.B. just Nikki Haley, the person.

Speaker 10 I assume you have a darker, you had a darker view, maybe. No, you also were hoping.

Speaker 14 I'm sorry, but on Tuesday, the Bulwark published a piece called Can Nikki Haley Do the Right Thing that I wrote.

Speaker 10 And I said in the staff meeting, I was like, I just have to tell you, I didn't read it. Okay.

Speaker 10 So I did think I was wrong about emigrating, but I was right about Nikki Haley because I saw that headline. And I was like, nope, Betteridge's Law.
Nope.

Speaker 10 If a headline ends in a question, the answer is no. Right.

Speaker 14 And so, like Sarah, I feel like really sheepish and miserable that she kicked my teeth in. Okay, so I said in the staff meeting on Monday, I'm willing to be fooled by her this one last time.

Speaker 14 And this is what I'm filing tonight. So I wrote about how, like Sarah, I believed that she could do Mike Pence and not Liz Cheney.

Speaker 14 That what she had said in the campaign, you could not walk back and she couldn't walk back. And she really meant it.

Speaker 14 And as a daughter of immigrants and a military spouse, after everything she has said, that Donald Trump, after mocking veterans, shouldn't have a driver's license, let alone be commander-in-chief, that she would do the Mike Pence thing.

Speaker 14 She had said enough about Biden being horrible that I knew she wouldn't endorse him.

Speaker 14 But I said, it would be so powerful if she just didn't endorse Trump because it would say to her followers, he is unacceptable and I'm just going to retreat.

Speaker 14 Of course, it would mean MAGA banishment, but it would be brave and it sounded like the thing that she had finally, finally, finally gotten to.

Speaker 14 After vacillating so many times in such a greasy way, right, since 2016, remember if what Sarah describes, if we sat right now and watched that video on stage of Marco and Tim Scott and Nikki Haley talking about the danger of Trump, we wouldn't be able to eat the rest of this holiday weekend.

Speaker 14 And so in that same Tim Alberta, that famous piece, Nikki Haley's Time for Choosing, she both does the, I want you to know that he believes that he won.

Speaker 14 So she, I guess he meets up with her in like December. So he's actively engaged in a coup, but she's doing that, what's the harm if we just amuse him a few more weeks?

Speaker 14 Then after January 6th, she says, we went down a path with him. We must never.

Speaker 14 repeat. It was a mistake and we must never do this again.
And then she was going to not run if he ran. And then she ran.
Anyway, so she's disappointed us so many times. She's gut punched us.

Speaker 14 This is not the first time. And she had all the promise that Sarah describes.
Not only for me just personally, I would have liked another day before she did it after my piece ran.

Speaker 14 I mean, maybe even a month. That was just a little much.
She didn't have to do it on May 22nd. Okay.
She did not have to.

Speaker 14 And as you guys have noted both in your response to him and Sarah's, she did it for nothing. So she didn't get any,

Speaker 14 appreciation of her candidacy and her positions, her Reagan Republicanism from Trump or Trump surrogates. Her voters

Speaker 14 are still permanently barred or the people that send her money, right? So she gives it away for free. It was so much worse than I imagined.

Speaker 14 In my piece, I said, what I do expect from her is that she'll give a diluted endorsement of Trump that telegraphs to her supporters that she wants to be viable in 28 or 32.

Speaker 14 I did not expect her to do it in this most shameful, most piteous way. So I have also been going through some physical and mental things since Wednesday.
Okay.

Speaker 10 Well, if you guys want to give each other an e-hug,

Speaker 13 I do. I feel your pain.

Speaker 13 Wait, did you sort of see that Trump did truth bleat this morning about how they ran a really tough campaign against each other, but there would be space for Nikki Haley in his administration or whatever?

Speaker 13 So like what he did, it seems like to me, the choreography of this was like, they give her nothing. She sucks up and goes and endorses him.
And then they're like, okay,

Speaker 13 you can be part of this. I think that usually I'm pretty good at

Speaker 13 seeing when somebody is just bereft of character. And obviously that Nikki Haley's flip-flopping around betrayed a weakness inside of her.
Like, I'll never forget. A.B.

Speaker 13 just referenced this when she said, well, I'll run for president, but first I'd check with with Trump. I just, you know, make sure, clear it with him.

Speaker 13 And I remember I, on that day, was so disgusted with her. But part of it is, is that I want to make space for everybody to have their break glass moment on Trump and to walk away.

Speaker 13 We could all sit around and be like, it took you long enough. And look, do I feel that on my insides? Sure, I do.
But more than anything, I want there to be space for people to be able to walk away.

Speaker 13 And I guess I thought she could be headed in that direction and to see her do the about face.

Speaker 13 And also, I'll just another thing that was in the news that I think is sort of why it's right now is she did this donor huddle recently.

Speaker 13 And I think it is part of a broader thing that's happening among Republicans right now in the donor class and everywhere else where everyone's like, guys, we don't like it. Sure, it's bad.

Speaker 13 Sure, he's unhinged, but like, let's focus on getting a good VP in there. And maybe Trump will choke on a cheeseburger later and we'll all get what we want.

Speaker 13 Took us a weird path to get to the Marco Rubio, Nikki Haley world we wanted, but we'll get there by doing it this way.

Speaker 13 Like they're talking themselves all together into something that I think is delusional because they still don't understand their voters, but sure, whatever. That's what's happening.

Speaker 10 The Tim Alberta piece also ends up not actually aging that well. Love Tim Alberta, not his fault, but it wasn't her time for choosing.
The whole way that she did this was about can kicking.

Speaker 10 It's related to what you're saying, right? It's like, I'm not going to be forced to choose right now between MAGA and not MAGA, Trump bad, Trump good, because who knows, right? Like, who knows?

Speaker 10 He could die. I could get picked.
I'm young. You know, I'm 30 years younger than these two guys.
Something could happen in 12 years. And if I endorse Biden, it's over.
I'm Liz Cheney and I'm sad.

Speaker 10 And if I just do this kind of half-hearted Trump thing, then at least I'm still there. And my time for choosing could be down the line, right? Like this choice.

Speaker 10 So I think that that mindset, which is being pushed on her by those donors and the people in her social circle. I think is what explains this.

Speaker 10 One more thing on the Nikki character that I do have to get off my chest. And I think gave me a little advantage over both of you in assessing her character.

Speaker 10 Is, you know, here's the thing: Nikki was also one of the few people who was pretty clear-eyed all the way through 2016.

Speaker 10 In the fall of 2016, she was like, when a lot of other people started to backtrack and backpedal, like she didn't really, she was pretty clear.

Speaker 10 And when Trump invited her to be UN ambassador, invite her up to New York, this kind of hit the cutting room floor of my book. I was friends with her closest, two of her three closest advisors.

Speaker 10 And they were like, what? Like when she told them that they were going, that she was going up to meet with him about a job, they were both just flabbergasted by that. And then she went and did it.

Speaker 10 And then she took the job. And then she was like, okay, well, you're going to come with me.
And they both said no.

Speaker 10 And neither of these people did the big Never Trump cable TV thing, like, like some of us did. And so they're not like, they don't get, they're not famous for their Never Trumpism.

Speaker 10 But she treated them like shit.

Speaker 10 like treated them like shit after that and like said nope sorry you're not on board you're not on board and at a personal level and i was just like nope that's this person like this person is gonna gonna try to figure out what the best calculus is for her and everybody else be damned so anyway f you nikki the question of the haley voters before we lose you sarah i want to get your take on on that and like this impact on that that group that we've been talking about a lot yeah so like i said i think that

Speaker 13 Nikki Haley, for the most part, like the biggest part of her coalition were people for whom she was an avatar for their anti-Trump sentiment, right?

Speaker 13 Okay, so I think that on balance, the people showing up to her rallies, they were more anti-Trump than she ultimately turned out to be. So, I don't think she was a movement leader.

Speaker 13 I think that we call them Nikki Haley voters because they objectively voted for Nikki Haley, but I don't think they're Nikki Haley voters as though Nikki Haley is their person, their leader, and they follow her where she goes.

Speaker 13 I actually think the most damage the Nikki Haley thing does is I think she becomes part of a broader constructed narrative that is this fait accompli idea, right, of Joe Biden's worse.

Speaker 13 He's just obviously worse. And that's what the Wall Street Journal set is going to, like, I think she's going to have a much bigger effect on the elite Republicans.

Speaker 13 And also, you know, I've been thinking a lot about how you do shift things for Biden.

Speaker 13 And one of the ways is to have people who worked for Trump, some of the generals, your Mitt Romney's, all kinds of people like that, come out and say, no, I'm going to, I'm going to vote for Biden, or I'm certainly not gonna vote for Trump.

Speaker 13 He's too dangerous. The coalescing around the idea that they're all gonna get on board damages the ability to get other people to come and speak out, right?

Speaker 13 Like you look at a Jeff Duncan coming out and you're like, Okay, that's good. That's one in the column of, no, I'm gonna vote for Biden.
Trump's an existential threat. I'm not gonna vote for him.

Speaker 13 He starts to build some momentum in that direction for other Republicans to come out and say the same. She just like blunted that so hard and makes it harder for other people to do the same.

Speaker 13 So that's why I think the biggest thing is, and I think that has an overall impact as we go along of the rationalizations people tell themselves when they're part of this double hater coalition, but they're Republicans.

Speaker 13 They're right-leaning independents. They're soft GOP voters.
Like, what is it that they tell themselves to get themselves there on Trump?

Speaker 13 And I just think Nikki Haley is part of now building that bigger, higher narrative permission structure. And that's not good.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I agree with most of that. A.B., you have any thoughts on that?

Speaker 14 I agree. And I'm nervous that there are a bunch of them in terms of the timing because of Israel that were already teeter-tottering on whether or not Biden is a catastrophe.

Speaker 14 And this, just like Sarah describes, gives them, you know, an excuse. And so it is frustrating.
I will be interested to see if there are any donors that say hell no, Haley donors.

Speaker 13 I know for sure there are some.

Speaker 10 Good, good.

Speaker 14 And won't be talked into supporting Trump. That's important.
But she's just a fool. Just to watch the 30 tweets that she released as she was at the Hudson event, event,

Speaker 14 all of them describing basically President Biden, you know,

Speaker 14 stand with our allies, right? This is what I did.

Speaker 14 Our enemies.

Speaker 14 Yeah, it was just absolutely beyond comprehension.

Speaker 14 And I'm so glad that the very next day Trump posted that thing about Evan Gershkovitz and how he and Putin are on the phone and like they're going to make this plan together.

Speaker 14 It was the only thing that made me feel a little better about Haley.

Speaker 10 Yeah, embarrassing. I'm going to be with somebody that stands with our allies.
Okay.

Speaker 10 We're going to talk about the Evan Gershquiz bleat on the other side. We got to let Sarah go.
Sarah's doing the secret podcast every Friday.

Speaker 10 So if you want bonus, Sarah, unleashed Sarah, unshackled Sarah, and JVL, and you are not a Bullark Plus member, go to the Bullwark.com/slash free trial. You can test it out for 30 days.

Speaker 10 You can hear more of Sarah ranting about her feelings here as the morning goes on. Thanks, Sarah, for jumping on.

Speaker 13 Thanks, guys. Have a good show.
I'll see you.

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Speaker 6 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 2 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 1 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 8 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 2 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 7 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 2 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close. Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 10 All right. We're back.
We've got much to do. In the brief interlude green room, we were discussing songs for Nikki.
I did Trader yesterday. I was looking for a fool song and

Speaker 10 AB, you've given us the throwback. I think we're going to do it.
Do share.

Speaker 14 We're going to surprise them, right?

Speaker 10 We're going to surprise them. Okay.
It's an A-B pick. You know, none of this tipster bullshit that I've been feeding you.
Okay. It's an A-B pick.
Just a classic Memorial Day barbecue. Yes.

Speaker 10 F you to Nikki Haley. All right.
I want to get to Gross Gwitz, but first we need to talk about the Trump rally in the Bronx yesterday, which I suffered through.

Speaker 10 I'm suffering for you in a big way because, man, I just, I can't believe we're here again. I just really can't.
I want to listen first to his comments about the hostages.

Speaker 17 There's no way that those hostages and some will be alive, but many of those hostages are dead. It's a very, it's a very serious, horrible thing.

Speaker 18 It would have never happened if the election weren't rigged. It would have never happened.

Speaker 10 I mean, for people just listening, you can hear it in his voice, but his whole face changes. Like, he gets, you can tell, like, the thing that he's mad about is the election rigging.
Right, right.

Speaker 10 Not the hostages or the dead or anything. As it ties to our pre-break segment, like, how do these people think that he's their ally on this? The people that are very pro-Israel.

Speaker 10 Like, he's just so obviously only concerned about his own self and his own delusions.

Speaker 14 Jewish community are pro-Israeli voters who have talked themselves into supporting Trump or just believe that he won't be able to back down and that it's a better bet than Biden and they will take whatever crap he says.

Speaker 14 Matt rallies. You are absolutely right.
He's only animated by his grievance, not about hostages who've been killed and the rest who haven't been returned home.

Speaker 14 And he doesn't talk about the need to get them home. He never gets up there and says, you know, we need Hamas to release us.
It's like, it's not even a part of it.

Speaker 14 I'm one of the people who believes that he knows that he lost. And so it enrages me more when he says, it never would have happened if the election wasn't ready.
Like, I think he knows that he lost.

Speaker 14 And Cassidy Hutchinson said that he said to Mark Meadows, come on, like, it's so embarrassing. I lost this guy.

Speaker 14 So it makes me more crazy when he uses that to goose his crowds in the very volatile situation that we're in, just separate and apart from people who are being held hostage or who've perished as hostages.

Speaker 14 So it's disgusting all around. And the fact that he continues to lean into that, which is just going to make,

Speaker 14 because he's ahead in the polls, more people prone to rage and violence.

Speaker 10 Boy, it was even darker than I was. I'm glad to have you here.
A.B., it has really turned the notch for me.

Speaker 14 To start the summer with the holiday weekend, so much darkness.

Speaker 10 All right, I've got one more clip. And a big reason why I want to talk about it is because...

Speaker 10 It seems like me and Friend of the Pod, Friend of Arvet, Ron Philip Kowski over at Midas Touch are the only people that actually noticed that this happened yesterday.

Speaker 10 None of the people who are paid to cover Donald Trump deigned to mention this. But here's something that happened at the rally in the Bronx yesterday.

Speaker 18 Here, as well as rapper Chef G. Do you guys everybody know Chef G? Where is Chef G?

Speaker 10 Where is he?

Speaker 17 Come on up, fellas.

Speaker 18 Rapper Sleepy Hallow.

Speaker 16 Come on up here, fellas.

Speaker 18 Thank you very much. Ashbury, I like those teeth.
I want to find out where you did. I got to get my teeth like that.

Speaker 18 I want that to happen to me.

Speaker 10 He wants the gold teeth. So here's the thing.
Whatever, you know, everybody brings up surrogates, right? You bring up famous people that support you. The Democrats do this.

Speaker 10 But something you might not know about Chef G and Sleepy Hallow, they were arrested as part of a 32-defendant, 140-count criminal indictment in New York.

Speaker 10 The indictment included murder, attempted murder, illegal firearm possession, at least a dozen shootings. They are part of the eight Trey Crips and Nine Ways gangs.

Speaker 10 You know, sometimes like the media criticism part of this is so eye rolly, but like, can you imagine if Joe Biden had brought up somebody who was out on bail for murder?

Speaker 10 Like what the Republicans would do to this, what Fox would do to this. And Trump has on stage two guys that are literally out on a million dollar plus bail for killing people.

Speaker 10 The whole phoniness of the law and order, which has been a theme this week, is so brazen. And yet everybody's just like, whatever.
It's Trump. Yeah.

Speaker 14 I mean, first of all, Trump's out on bail, which is never mentioned.

Speaker 14 I mean, Americans have no idea that Trump is actually out on bail. Good abs.
And he wants teeth like that. And he hopes that he's not going to be able to do murder.

Speaker 14 He hopes that happens to him. There's no question.
We always talk about this.

Speaker 14 I, like you, I'm so tired of ranting about how the media is covering this like a normal campaign, but actually not covering covering it like a normal campaign, right?

Speaker 14 They're not covering it like a man who tried to overthrow the government and stay in power illegally is trying to come back into power.

Speaker 14 They're covering it like a normal race.

Speaker 14 And then when things happen, like the accusation that the current president tried to assassinate him and bringing up, you know, criminals on stage, we just move on. People don't write up a story.

Speaker 14 People don't have a TV segment. It's not on the radio.
It's deep into the internet. If you are interested in finding out about the rally and happen to follow Ron Filipowski on Twitter.

Speaker 14 So last night I watched that actual clip of them coming up and it was like, you know, it's perfect. He gets to use them.
The crowd loves it, right? He's got the bling of these two.

Speaker 14 He has two black men who are rappers supporting him and saying, make America great again.

Speaker 14 And then the next day, he gets no hit for it. He doesn't get a hmm from a Republican senator.
Actually, I wouldn't have had them at one of my campaign events. Like nothing.

Speaker 14 Not only does the media not do it, there's no disapproval from anybody across the board, which equals over time, as we know, approval.

Speaker 14 And that's why it's so insidious.

Speaker 10 Yeah, it is insidious.

Speaker 10 And that's why I think the point you made there that is right on the nose is it's actually that's not covering like I'm just asking for people to cover Trump like they would cover somebody else, right?

Speaker 10 And it's just like, you know, JVL did this yesterday in the newsletter about the murder. It's just like you imagine, I was on the 2012 Romney campaign.

Speaker 10 It's like you imagine Mitt Romney accusing Barack Obama of trying to assassinate him and then having a couple murderers up on stage the next day. It's like the entire campaign would have shut down.

Speaker 10 Like every question to Mitt would have been about this. Every question to every Republican senator would have been about this.
Like, why is he fabricating assassination claims?

Speaker 10 And it's just like, whatever, water off the ducks back here. I want to give the other side of this a little bit.

Speaker 10 Trump's rally, there were parts that were unhinged for sure, but something that I took away from it was similar to Jeff Charlotte's been on this podcast before.

Speaker 10 He kind of monitors Christian nationalism. Very good.
And we should have him back sometime. But he sent this out.
And he goes, I've been listening to Trump and the Bronx.

Speaker 10 My record of both talking on Trump is fascism, starting from the golden escalator, and not telling people what they want to hear when it's not true is solid. So here's the awful news.

Speaker 10 He's doing what he does very well.

Speaker 10 I kind of had to agree with that watching yesterday. Like, Trump does not appeal to me at all.
There's nothing. It's not like I was like, ooh, he was, I found him very charming.

Speaker 10 But it's like his shtick up there, you can tell he thinks he's winning. He goes off on his tangents about the election, no doubt.
But his language, like, he curbs himself.

Speaker 10 Like, they're keeping him relatively inbounds for Trump, grading on the Trump curve scale.

Speaker 10 And, you know, things like the crowd starts chanting send them back, send them back, which is a gross racist cheer they chanted at Elon Omar back in 2016. And he like stoked it back then, right?

Speaker 10 And when it happened here, he was trying to soften it. I don't know if he's not, they're not feeding him in court or something, but he looks a little trimmer.
And like, he's up there forever.

Speaker 10 He's up there for two hours and he's like making jokes and stuff. And I don't know.

Speaker 10 Again, you're bringing up rappers, as you're saying, to a lower informed electorate, you know, and you're seeing this in the poll numbers.

Speaker 10 People are looking at him and they're like, I don't know, you know, like he's doing the fashion thing.

Speaker 10 Pretty well and like there's a group of people out there that want everybody to think like, oh, no, he's deteriorating. He's horrible.
He's awful.

Speaker 10 And it's like, I don't know. I think he's doing it pretty well.
And we're in for a real fucking fight. And I don't think it does anybody any good to pretend like he's not.

Speaker 10 So I know you didn't suffer the whole speech like me, but I'm curious what your reaction is to that.

Speaker 14 I'm so glad that you raised that because I saw Jeff's tweet and I recommend that everybody read Undertow or listen to it on Audible.

Speaker 14 It's one of the books that people need to read and absorb if Trump wins. It's really important, even if he doesn't.

Speaker 14 I just think it's like Liz Cheney's book about the entire TikTok of what happened, the insurrection, and Tim Alberta's book about evangelicals, the kingdom, the power, and the glory. I think Undertow

Speaker 14 will teach you things about this country that will blow your mind. Anyway, back to Trump.
I am with you. I'm one of the people who thinks he looks great.
I think he's on Ozempic Light.

Speaker 14 Like, Oprah takes it probably three days a week, so he's not nauseous all the time. He's looking good.
He has stamina.

Speaker 10 I had another text yesterday at Ozempic. You also think so?

Speaker 14 Oh, yeah, I think so. I think so.
And what I think is that Trump has something.

Speaker 14 So people are talking about aphasia. There are moments at rallies where Trump slurs.

Speaker 14 It only happened maybe once last night, but there are some times when it happens more than that where he can't read the words on the teleprompter and he goes.

Speaker 14 So there's something to that.

Speaker 14 I don't know that he's actually decomposing. I think he looks good.
I think he has stamina. I think, you know, the idea if he goes into a debate and somehow is controlled is really frightening.

Speaker 14 And he did have some scripted lines apparently last night about like coming together in the country as Americans, like throwing some stuff in there. Right.

Speaker 14 And JVL has written about this that like he gets both. He gets to both like.

Speaker 14 energize the base with some throwaway lines like Judge Murshan look where he came from so he'll always keep doing like this racist right supremacist shit and fast dictator stuff because his base wants that.

Speaker 14 And then he'll like swing back and have these moments where he's like, you know,

Speaker 14 the border is crazy. There's too much chaos.
And like, I had the best economy in the world or whatever he says to appeal. Now, you had a great conversation with Jasmine Crockett about black voters.

Speaker 14 It is undeniable that non-college black and Latino voters were among the hardest hit by inflation. Inflation is the driving theme of this election, not democracy.

Speaker 14 Unfortunately, inflation is the overpowering

Speaker 14 theme that voters,

Speaker 14 the prism through which they see everything, which is that they've never had price hikes like this in their lifetime.

Speaker 14 I believe the polls when I see this flight of those voters to Trump, particularly when they're younger and they don't even really remember or weren't following his first term.

Speaker 10 I think there's some good polling on this this week, asking young people what they remember.

Speaker 14 I think to pretend that he's in bad shape and he's like stumbling around incoherent, it's just not true.

Speaker 14 It doesn't help anybody in terms of the contrast on a debate stage or in campaign events of Biden versus Trump. Biden has a stutter and it gets worse when he's tired and he's tired because he's old.

Speaker 14 I don't think he has dementia. at all, but I think that he gets fatigued and then he sounds worse than he actually is because he has a stutter.

Speaker 14 But I think that optics are everything in politics and we have to remember that.

Speaker 10 so it's stupid to deny that trump has a good rap and that he looks pretty up to it i just want to say one more thing on this again we're going to trump looks good like for trump and obviously like if you want you wouldn't want to see him shirtless he would look repulsive uh and like the face and if he didn't have his burnt sienna makeup on you know you'd be like ah again perception we're talking about the perception what he looks like on this stage the one other thing i want to say is i know you just see it in the you know numbers right like of retweets or youtube views or stuff.

Speaker 10 Like people want to see Trump decomposing. Like that makes them happy.
Trump going to lose. That makes people happy.
It makes me happy, right? I want to see Trump is going to lose.

Speaker 10 Here's the interesting thing, though. There is like a weird thing that it's like, oh,

Speaker 10 if you talk about the election like it's close so that Trump's winning a little bit, then that's like bad for Biden. And I actually reject that.

Speaker 10 I think that everybody should be clear-eyed about the state of affairs. I think that it would help for the Biden campaign to feel like they were running behind.

Speaker 10 It worries me a little bit when sometimes it seems like they don't.

Speaker 10 And as far as voter psychology, I don't think it flipped the election, but I am convinced that this notion that Hillary was certainly going to win in 2016 helped Trump's vote turnout.

Speaker 10 There's a person probably listening to this right now who's after a few drinks revealed to me, former Republican, that they're like, I think I would have done Hillary if I would have known.

Speaker 10 You know, no, they didn't. They didn't live in a swing state, so whatever.

Speaker 10 But like, I think that there were people out there that either didn't vote or didn't, because they're just like, this guy's a clown. Like, this isn't going to happen.

Speaker 10 Hillary's going to win a landslide. Or, you know what I mean? And so I don't think it actually helps anybody for people to think that Biden is going to win.

Speaker 10 So I'm going to skip over additional hopium talking. I wanted to get to your take on

Speaker 10 Gershkovich that you mentioned earlier. Just for background, Ivan Gerskowicz is a reporter at the Wall Street Journal who's been held by Russia for a while.

Speaker 10 Trump sent out a bleat yesterday saying that he would be released almost immediately after the election, but before Trump assumes office. He will be all caps home, safe with his family.

Speaker 10 Vladimir Putin, president of Russia, will do that for me, but not for anyone else.

Speaker 10 Doesn't send a chill down your spine.

Speaker 14 Until that bleed came out, the idea of him potentially threatening the lives of FBI agents by saying that there was a plot to assassinate him by President Joe Biden was like the hair on fire story that no one was covering.

Speaker 14 This is absolutely unbelievable that he is nakedly admitting that he and Putin have a deal, they're in communication, that Putin will do whatever it takes to help Trump win, and that Evan Gershwitz has to rot in jail unless Trump wins.

Speaker 14 This is beyond comprehension.

Speaker 14 No one is reacting. Senator John Thune, Senator John Cornyn, you're running for majority leader of the U.S.
Senate. Would you like to have a word about this?

Speaker 14 Mitch McConnell, greatest champion of fighting against the threat of Russia, confronting Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 10 I haven't heard a word.

Speaker 14 It's not subtle, guys.

Speaker 10 No, it's not subtle. He's hitting you over that.

Speaker 14 It wasn't like in code.

Speaker 14 He threw our intelligence community under the bus at Helsinki. He took the side of the Russians.
His sons admitted in 2007 and 2008 that they didn't need U.S.

Speaker 14 banks anymore that would reject the Trump organization because they had money from the Russians. He is an asset.
If he is not an active agent, he is an asset. And it doesn't seem to bother anybody.

Speaker 14 It doesn't seem to bother Americans that he is on the Saudi payroll, that he is dependent for his income on the Saudi government, and that we are a satellite of the Russian Federation.

Speaker 14 And this makes me crazy.

Speaker 14 And so Trevor Reed, I don't know if you saw this, I saw it this morning, wrote last night, he was released from jail.

Speaker 14 wrongfully detained by Putin under the Biden administration in 2022.

Speaker 14 And he writes, writes: As a former wrongful detainee, a Marine, an American Marine, detainee in Russia, I would just like to remind everyone that President Trump had the ability to get myself and Paul Whalen out of Russia for years and chose not to.

Speaker 14 I would be skeptical of any claims about getting Evan Gershwitz back in a day. Who is standing up this morning for Trevor Reed and agreeing with him and saying Biden got our service member home?

Speaker 14 Trump didn't do it.

Speaker 14 This is such a dangerous threat to the country and the fact that we have no response is just scares the daylights out of me. Americans don't respond to this anymore.

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Speaker 10 Yeah, you can imagine somebody out there listening to that rain and be like, oh, these Never Trumpers, they're deranged. They think that they still have the Russia thing and the P-tape.

Speaker 10 And it's like, he's saying it. They're in cahoots.
He's saying it right there in public. He's like, we're in cahoots.
Me and Vlad, we would do this for you. We're in cahoots.
No, no.

Speaker 10 That's what he's saying.

Speaker 14 It's open collusion. It always has been.
The Russian government wrote Don Jr. and said, it's part of our effort to get your father re-elected.
It's always been.

Speaker 14 He flatters Putin at every single rally. He did it last night again, right there on the top of their game, G, Putin, all the dictators.

Speaker 14 But to send that tweet out and to say, you know, we have a deal going, a special arrangement. I'm going to get favors from him.
We won't have to pay anything.

Speaker 14 It'd be great is so beyond outrageous and is so astonishing. And the lack of reaction is just sickening.

Speaker 10 More sickening stuff. Christina Bob, you know her?

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 14 She is just one of the most esteemed attorneys in this country, I think.

Speaker 10 Another thing that's just like,

Speaker 10 how is this not sinking in with people? How is this not sinking in with everybody? The Republican National Committee's senior counsel for election integrity.

Speaker 10 The RNC hired two lawyers, a normal lawyer, friend of both of ours.

Speaker 10 Well, I don't know if we're friends anymore, but a former, one-time friend of both of ours, Charlie Spees, who's just a regular person that was enabling Donald Trump to a certain degree.

Speaker 10 And then a wild-eyed lunatic who used to be at an OAN anger. It was kind of a joint lawyer hiring at the RNC.
The relatively normal one gets pushed out. Bob is still there.

Speaker 10 She was recently arraigned in Arizona for her role in a plot to overturn the state's election results. Her new Twitter bio pic is a picture of her mug shot, and she sent this tweet: What the fuck?

Speaker 10 They were prepared to kill me. Question mark.
A few dozen FBI agents versus me, and they were ready to kill me. What in the world happened to the United States of America? Question mark.

Speaker 10 This person is a lunatic.

Speaker 10 If you were like on your kids' soccer team and there was a a little, you know, there was a little social media group, a little Facebook group of the moms and dads on the team.

Speaker 10 And one of the moms posted this, you'd be like, I need to find a new team. Like, I don't want my child to be next to this person.
She's the lead lawyer for the Republicans right now.

Speaker 10 She thinks that, she thinks that the deep state was out to kill her.

Speaker 14 No, I disagree with you.

Speaker 10 What do you do? Which part?

Speaker 10 You keep your kid on the soccer team? You'd want to hang out with Christine, have some drinks with her.

Speaker 14 She knows what she's doing. They're all straight up criminals and they relish in in their criminal.

Speaker 10 Criminal Stop Living Steel.

Speaker 14 The Stop the Steel thing

Speaker 14 is a badge of honor. I was from day one wondering how is Charlie going to keep that job? Why did they hire him? Why did they give it to him?

Speaker 14 All they want is crooks and election deniers and Stop the Steel freaks. And what Trump has taught her is you lean in.
And so she jumped on the Mar-a-Lago thing to try to have a part of it.

Speaker 14 They were going to shoot me and President Trump.

Speaker 14 This is like, this is just what MAGA does. I don't think that she's crazy at all.
Is JD Vance crazy?

Speaker 14 Is Ted Cruz crazy?

Speaker 10 We're going to get to Ted Cruz.

Speaker 14 Everyone who knows that Donald Trump is a dangerous sociopathic lunatic and abides him and gratuitously now, you know, whatever aids him and abets him, they're not actually mentally ill.

Speaker 10 I think Christina might be mentally ill, but I hear you. JD isn't.
I'm open to the idea that she's not mentally ill, but her public persona, everything would indicate some sort of mental illness.

Speaker 10 Is it not odd that the Law and Order Party's chief legal officer has a mugshot as her profile pick? Is that not at all concerning or odd?

Speaker 14 That's what election integrity means. You have to have been a part of the effort to take back

Speaker 14 the election for the, I'm sure you saw this the other day on Twitter. Some people call him the rightful President Trump.

Speaker 14 And so she did her heroic, patriotic duty by getting indicted for this crime of trying to take back a stolen election for Donald Trump, the rightful winner.

Speaker 14 So, no, now that the RNC is like just like a third world, like family gang, like I, I'm not actually surprised at all that their election integrity people are crooks. And the donors, as you can see,

Speaker 14 they're disgusted, but they're all in and they're paying up anyway.

Speaker 10 Well, I just think that's a fun fact to share with people at the Memorial Day Barbecue of Politics comes up that the Republican Party's head lawyer has her mug shot as her as her profile picture.

Speaker 10 So that's just that's just the state of play. One more thing about people that think Donald Trump is the rightful president, possibly

Speaker 10 two of the nine Supreme Court justices. I just was dying to hear your take on the appeal to heaven flag.
I was not quite as breathless about the appeal to heaven flag as everybody was.

Speaker 10 I mean, I do think it's weird. I guess I would say this.

Speaker 10 Christian Vanderbrook said this, another friend of the pod, and he um i think his point was right which is like if you only knew two facts about someone and the two facts were that they flew an upside-down american flag and an appeal to heaven flag with the pine tree on it outside their home after january 6th then you'd have like a 99 likelihood of believing that they were sympathetic with the coup right you know as a standalone the pine tree flag Maybe a little weird, but not anything problematic.

Speaker 10 But those two facts together sure seems like Samuel Alito was like basically pro-coup. No.

Speaker 14 So before we even learned about the flags, we knew that Samuel Alito was a frothing partisan who has no business on that court, let alone weighing in on decisions that have to do with January 6th immunity for these prosecutions of January.

Speaker 14 Nothing.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 14 He doesn't have the temperament and the measured approach.

Speaker 14 to be on the court. The things that people were saying when people were raising mad about Brett Kavanaugh because he was weeping about beer at a Senate hearing.

Speaker 14 And people were saying, you know, you can't like lose it like that. You know, like, what's going on here?

Speaker 14 And we all know if a woman did that, by the way, they would, her own family would have come in to the Senate hearing room and dragged her out by the ankle. Like, that would have been the end.
Okay.

Speaker 14 Women cannot survive this. So, judicial temperament, like Samuel Alito disqualified himself a long time ago, but I'm with you.

Speaker 14 It's fine for the National Review crowd and John Bolton to get really excited and try to defend one of the flags and say, like, you cannot pick one thing from my life and make a universal judgment, right?

Speaker 14 But you don't get to have both flags, like one at your country house and then one at your main residence.

Speaker 10 Like, I'm sorry, like, no.

Speaker 14 And he tried to blame his wife the first time.

Speaker 14 And as you've pointed out, like, oh, yes, our universal primitive response, our instinct is the minute our spouse is insulted, we have to run out and turn an American flag upside down.

Speaker 14 Like, this is crazy. So, you don't get the two flags.
Like, that's just, it stinks too much.

Speaker 10 Did you know about the Appeal to Heaven flag? Were you familiar? Did you know about it? No, I didn't until I learned about it.

Speaker 14 And I don't know if it's true, and people can look this up, but that someone who lives near Leonard Leo sent out a picture that he also has the same one. Yeah, Leonard Leo.

Speaker 10 Anyway, it's fine.

Speaker 14 Everyone has their little coded messages, but you don't get two flags. That's that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I'd seen it before, and I made this joke on Twitter. I was like, I think I thought it was the Vermont flag.

Speaker 10 There are always a lot of weird flags at Republican rallies, and I just, you know, I wasn't so into

Speaker 10 vexicology that I didn't know exactly. But I was familiar with the flag, but I was like, oh, okay, I get it now.

Speaker 10 We're going to go rampant fire. We've got three more topics we're going to do.
It's been heavy. We need to listen to Ted Cruz get owned by Caitlin Collins really quick.
Let's listen to that.

Speaker 20 Senator, with all due respect, after it had been thrown out of many courts, after the Attorney General Bill Barr, because there was no basis for those court cases.

Speaker 20 So that's actually not with all due respect.

Speaker 21 You asked me a question. Do you want me to answer it?

Speaker 10 And you didn't answer the question. Dozens of court cases were thrown out of the court.

Speaker 20 Hold on, Senator General said there was no widespread fraud. You're not clearly answering the question.

Speaker 10 I want to thank you.

Speaker 21 I'm answering every question.

Speaker 21 I think the country would have been a lot better off with a determination of what evidence of voter fraud

Speaker 21 occurred, and instead the media didn't want to hear it and insists voter fraud never occurs. You ought to go back and look at the corporate commission.

Speaker 20 It was the Attorney General, and my question was

Speaker 21 the media. It was CNN that relentlessly

Speaker 21 pushed that propaganda.

Speaker 14 And by the way, never

Speaker 20 widespread fraud in the election?

Speaker 21 That voter fraud doesn't exist, and anyone who says it does is wearing a tinfoil hat.

Speaker 10 You're wearing a tinfoil hat. Later in the interview, she goes this: people should go find this for themselves.
It's really enjoyable. They go round and round for like nine minutes.

Speaker 10 And he cited, he said he wanted to do what they did in 1876 to determine the 2020 election. He wanted to have a panel of five senators, five House members, and five Supreme Court justices.

Speaker 10 That's constitutionalist Ted Cruz's plan.

Speaker 10 What'd you think about that?

Speaker 14 He knows that we know that he knows, right? Perfectly well.

Speaker 14 That in our system, we hold a million gazillion different elections and they are controlled separately and the federal government does not operate them.

Speaker 14 But that after 2020,

Speaker 14 for those of us who are paying attention, Trump's own government, including his attorney general, and Chris Krebs and others, said this was a safe and secure election where no fraud would have impacted it.

Speaker 14 But he knew the question was coming and then he embarrassed himself. Like, why didn't he have a better answer? He wants to talk about voter fraud that doesn't make a difference?

Speaker 14 I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know what he's doing. It was a mistake.

Speaker 10 It was pathetic. It was fun to watch.
I was enjoying it.

Speaker 10 I need little bits of joy. Good for Caitlin Collins.
Really took it to him. All right.
Two other just local topics I feel obliged to hit before we let people enjoy their weekend.

Speaker 10 Here in Louisiana, the Senate passed a bill Thursday that would classify the abortion pill as controlled substance, criminalizing the possession of mufapristone without a prescription.

Speaker 10 It's expected to be signed by Janky Jeff Landry here next week, making Louisiana the first state to do this.

Speaker 10 I mean, really sucks for women in Louisiana. So I just want to start by saying that.

Speaker 10 Politically, though, I mean, I don't think it's going to hurt Janky Jeff, but it's kind of a disaster for Republicans, really, you know, because Trump really doesn't want to have to have people be worried that this is a threat in a second term.

Speaker 10 And Louisiana is just basically being like, yeah, it's a threat. It's not only a threat, it's happening right here.

Speaker 14 Well, it's interesting. Let's start with Trump.

Speaker 14 I mean, the Project 2025 has some kind of language, as I understand it, about the Comstock Act and trying to stop the shipment if that his FDA would consider blocking shipments of mephapristone and making it illegal, whatever.

Speaker 14 So women in states that have like these, all these strict bans are are now obviously getting the medication from other states. I did follow this a few weeks ago, Tim.

Speaker 14 And what I think is interesting about it is that the sponsor of the legislation, state Senator Presley, not with an E before the Y, no relation,

Speaker 14 actually launched this because

Speaker 14 his sister was like Jason Miller Roofied. And that's actually terrible.
So

Speaker 14 if you think about

Speaker 14 this as a gateway explanation for doing it, it's really interesting.

Speaker 10 Jason Miller Ruffie, if you're able to miss that, it's the accusation about the Trump spokesperson.

Speaker 14 Trump's married spokesperson in 2016 put an abortion drug in some woman's drink that he had impregnated, and he got caught, and it's a disaster.

Speaker 14 Obviously, this is incredibly cruel, and this happened to the state senator's sister. So it's a compelling story, and he makes the case.

Speaker 14 You shouldn't have this without a prescription because you could do something like that. They don't want it to make its way to women unknowingly.
So that's a danger and that's a crime. So I get that.

Speaker 10 Couldn't you criminalize roofing people rather than having criminalizing access to the drug?

Speaker 14 That's interesting. Yes.
So I think it's a gateway explanation for them that they think is like going to be a good sneaky back door. That's what I think.

Speaker 14 Because obviously, if you look at the doctors who made the case that women are going to suffer, that some of them could die. This is going to restrict access.

Speaker 14 I mean, they're now demanding that only a specific doctor can prescribe this. So it really will have a negative impact.

Speaker 14 I'm just saying, I thought that was kind of an interesting part of it, that that's how it started. And you can see it just might pop up in other states, right?

Speaker 14 They tell this story and say it's terrible. And this is why we have to do it.

Speaker 10 Louisiana, we're also doing don't say gay now. I'm happy I have the resources to put my kid in private school.
You know, it's always like the, well, there is the one book.

Speaker 10 that has blowjobs in it in the kids library. And I'm always like, yeah, okay.

Speaker 10 Well, let's like say that books with blowjobs in them can't be in elementary school libraries like okay i'm not big on book banning but that seems reasonable that seems a lot more reasonable than telling a ninth grade teacher that they can't talk about their gay partner in class a lot of times there are these specific issues that and then they're used to broaden it out because i just i think about this situation it's like the sponsor's sister that's horrible that she went through that But, you know, you're in Louisiana.

Speaker 10 What if you're a 17-year-old girl, 16-year-old girl? You get impregnated.

Speaker 10 Your parents are fundamentalist Christians, and you can't get the drug, you know, with the prescription because you have the same doctor your parents have, or they're limiting the number of doctors that can do this.

Speaker 10 You can't get to the other city where they have, you know what I mean?

Speaker 10 Like, there are a lot of different ways that this could affect people and could force women to, you know, into situations they don't want.

Speaker 14 Also, because it's used for other things that could also endanger women's lives if they don't have it.

Speaker 10 Good point. I'm glad you raised that.
Okay, lastly, I feel like if the bulwark doesn't mention this, who is going to? Progressive DAs are going down all over the place right now.

Speaker 10 And I think it's a good lesson.

Speaker 10 In some ways, it shows that the Democratic coalition is self-policing, pun not intended there, you know, in a way that the Republicans aren't about some of their own extremism.

Speaker 10 I wrote, I can't pretend to know all the details about what exactly is happening in Portland, where the Progressive District Attorney Mike Schmidt was defeated by a tough run crime challenger, Nathan Vasquez, who is a former Republican prosecutor in his own office.

Speaker 10 But I can speak to the trend. You know, this also happened in San Francisco, where Chessa Boudin was replaced with Brooke Jenkins, who I interviewed, did a great interview with her.

Speaker 10 If people want to go back and find this, it was maybe a year or two ago. And, you know, she's a totally mainstream Democrat.

Speaker 10 It's not like a broken windows type of TA, but just like, we should prosecute criminals type of Democrat DA. And you're seeing this trend now across these liberal enclaves.

Speaker 10 I do think it's interesting and somewhat encouraging.

Speaker 14 I do too. You actually wrote about this also, separate from your interview with her, just, I guess it was around the time that London Breed was elected mayor.
Anyway, San Francisco is a lesson.

Speaker 14 It just is. Union Square has been decimated.
Macy's flagship left. This has a real effect on cities, on the psyche, on the economy, on tourism, on everything.

Speaker 14 It's very frustrating for Democrats right now because violent crime is... has plummeted so dramatically in the Biden administration.
I think they're trying to make that case.

Speaker 14 But we have new levels of disorder.

Speaker 14 And so people don't want to see videos of gratuitous looting, people biking through CVS and throwing shit in garbage bags, weed stink everywhere, you know, homeless encampments, and like fentanyl parks where people look like they're literally dying when they walk through the city.

Speaker 14 That is just the truth, that people don't like that. Even if it doesn't affect their personal security in their specific neighborhood or their block, They can't stand it.

Speaker 14 When they're going to work, going to shop, going to drop their kids to school, whenever they're in a part of a city that looks like it's just completely become a war zone and been forgotten.

Speaker 14 This is terrible for Democrats. And I think you're right that they are policing their own and they've seen it.

Speaker 14 They know since 2020 that non-college black and Latino voters who want more police in their neighborhood voted for Trump and Republicans. They know the data.

Speaker 14 I mean, at the local level, I'm glad that new leaders are being elected and there's new actual leadership. But I think also at a national level, it needs to be messaged a little more.

Speaker 10 It does need to be messaged. And it can be messaged tied together, you know? Look, I just always thought that the Biden message on this was always right.

Speaker 10 He was always in the middle of the, and he just has to be the prominent voice on this, not some other folks, because the crime is going down. We do have one disagreement.
I mean, the weed stink.

Speaker 10 I'll take that over, you know, over having to smell people's disgusting cigars, you know? So I've got to listen to stuff all down the street.

Speaker 10 It's like I had to go to these Republican parties where these dudes were just chomping on gross ass cigars. I'd be in my hair.
Like, okay. That's like weed stink by comparison.
Okay. That's just me.

Speaker 10 Besides that, totally aligned. Abie Stoddard, I want to let you get to your weekend.
Everybody, what do you have plans? Anything? Beach, barbecue, dark shades?

Speaker 14 Both my twins just graduated from college, so we've been on the road and it's been wonderful.

Speaker 14 So this weekend is a lot of like around-the-house projects that I'm really excited to get to, like changing the basement sofa.

Speaker 14 We got like the modular one that arrives in a million boxes and a lot of exciting projects. What about you?

Speaker 10 All right. Enjoy the sofa project.
We also are sitting around because we have a lot of travel coming up in June. So we're just hanging.
It's beautiful here in New Orleans. We go to the pool probably.

Speaker 10 I'll catch up on some writing and, you know, getting ready for you guys. I got to do more content creation.
So pool and content for me.

Speaker 14 Oh, you pump out more content, dude. You're wrong.
And it's been wonderful. By the way, I love the Jasmine interview, but also James Comey is so interesting.
He was so interesting.

Speaker 10 Some people fast-forwarded to it, and I get it because I was triggered. No, no, they must be true.
I was triggered by James Comey as well. You know, it brings back PTSD and sometimes it's hard.

Speaker 10 And so, yeah, you got to listen to it. Just wait till you're in a good place.
You know, just wait till you can process it without any anger.

Speaker 10 He made some mistakes, but he is interesting and thoughtful. And by the way, like, so clear-eyed about Donald Trump and the threat.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 And it's just like, you know, we're going to have people on this podcast that disagree about a ton of things, variety of things.

Speaker 10 But if you are clear-eyed about Donald Trump, this is a safe space for you. We're going to have you on here and we're going to talk you through.
So, anyway, A.B. Stoddard, I love you.

Speaker 10 Enjoy your Memorial Day weekend. Enjoy the new modular couch.
Everybody else, have a great Memorial Day weekend. We're taking Monday off.
We'll see y'all back here on Tuesday. Peace.

Speaker 10 Times are hard, and you're afraid to pay the fee.

Speaker 10 So you find yourself somebody

Speaker 10 who can do the job for free

Speaker 10 when you need a bit of loving?

Speaker 10 Cause your man is out of town.

Speaker 10 That's the time you get me running.

Speaker 10 And you know I'll be around.

Speaker 10 I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah.

Speaker 10 I don't wanna do your dirty work no more.

Speaker 10 I'm afraid to do your dirty work, oh yeah.

Speaker 10 Light the candle, put the lock upon the door.

Speaker 10 You have sent the maid home, Ellie, like a thousand times before.

Speaker 10 Like a castle in its corner,

Speaker 10 in a medieval game.

Speaker 10 Life

Speaker 10 terrible trouble.

Speaker 10 And I stay here just the same.

Speaker 10 I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah.

Speaker 10 I don't wanna do your dirty work no more.

Speaker 10 I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah.

Speaker 10 I don't wanna do your dirty work no more.

Speaker 10 I don't wanna do your dirty work, oh yeah.

Speaker 10 The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

Speaker 19 Mothers, fathers, children, friends, every day in America, 125 people are shot and killed, and behind every number is a life cut short.

Speaker 19 At Everytown every for Gun Safety Action Fund, we believe in a different future, one where we can enjoy the movies or a concert without looking for the nearest exit.

Speaker 19 We are nearly 11 million Americans standing together to end gun violence. We've helped pass life-saving laws.

Speaker 19 Go to everytown.org and donate today because together we can build a future free from gun violence.

Speaker 22 This is Matt Rogers from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

Speaker 15 This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturists with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

Speaker 22 Hey, Boen, it's gift season.

Speaker 15 Stressing me out. Why are the people I love so hard to shop for?

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Speaker 23 Even though severe cases can be rare, respiratory syncytial virus or RSV is still the leading cause of hospitalization in babies under one.

Speaker 23 RSV often begins like a cold or the flu, but can quickly spread to your baby's lungs. Ask your doctor about preventative antibodies for your baby this season and visit protectagainstrsv.com.

Speaker 23 The information presented is for general educational purposes only. Please ask your healthcare provider about any questions regarding your health or your baby's health.