Rick Wilson: The Reich Stuff

Speaker 3 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovny, and Carise Van Houten.

Speaker 6 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 3 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 8 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 2 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 7 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 6 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

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Speaker 10 Hello and welcome to the Borg Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller, and I got to tell you, today we just have an unbelievable tonnage of dumbassery to review.

Speaker 10 And so I've just, I've brought in the only man for that job, Rick Wilson, co-founder of the Lincoln Project adman, host of the podcast, The Enemies List.

Speaker 10 He has his own substack, Rick Wilson's substack. He's written some books.
Everything Tumb Touches Dies. You probably heard of that, Running Against the Devil.
Hey, brother. How you doing?

Speaker 10 Welcome to the pod. Welcome back to the pod.
Thank you, my friend. Good to see you.
It's good to see you, too.

Speaker 10 I just, you know, just before we started taping this, the defense, if you want to call it that, has rested.

Speaker 10 It's not not rested their eyes uh they've rested their defense of donald trump i do want to spend some time with that but i feel kind of as a hazing ritual since the first time you've been on since i've been the host chair we need to begin as i did yesterday with your former boss and so i'm so sorry yeah well i want to i just want to play a little we covered uh the cougar party at uh at caroline wrens house already yesterday and the subpoena so today i want to cover something else he's got a new infomercial out jason can we listen to a little bit of that you all know i stand by the truth and if if I put my name on something, I truly believe in it.

Speaker 10 Today, I'm thrilled to introduce you to something I'm incredibly proud of: my own brand of organic specialty coffee, Rudy Coffee. Believe me when I say it's the best coffee you'll ever try.

Speaker 10 It's smooth, rich, chocolatey, and gentle on your stomach.

Speaker 10 It's so good, I even recommend drinking it black. It comes in three varieties.

Speaker 10 Comes in three varieties. So, my first question for you: What are the three varieties of Rudy coffee?

Speaker 10 Perjury,

Speaker 10 evasion of service,

Speaker 10 and complete moral and mental collapse. I mean, that's four, I guess, but close enough.
That's close enough. That's pretty good.
Even black. I don't know.

Speaker 10 Was that a little racial subtext there?

Speaker 10 I don't even know.

Speaker 10 What is that?

Speaker 10 You never can't tell anymore.

Speaker 10 As somebody who was around Rudy a long time and helped in his 97 re-elect, and I was in city hall as an advisor to the mayor, and then I was on the campaign against Hillary, all these things, right?

Speaker 10 I've said this for a while now. The last time he and I spoke was 16.
We used to talk all the time. Would you talk after he had a couple pops? Is that usually? Oh, sometimes he's a couple of pops.

Speaker 10 Oh, he'll give you a bus.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 10 But it's like, how is it that this guy, who was not a dumb man at the time, has gotten so far into the swamp and the mire of this unbelievable he's like the alpha case study of everything Trump touches dies and it doesn't ever get any better.

Speaker 10 He always like hits the bottom and he's like, I think I'll dig some more now. I mean, the fact that he's shilling coffee, he's desperate financially.
We all know this.

Speaker 10 You know, he correctly got his head handed to him in the Georgia election workers defamation case.

Speaker 10 And I guess he still believes that somehow or another, Trump is going to save him from, I don't know, ending the last years of his life living on the street, panhandling. It is really depressing.

Speaker 10 If Rudy had not gone into Trump's universe, even with all his flaws, when he he died, people would have named high schools after him. They would have named bridges after him.

Speaker 10 I always say this. If he just did speeches, if he just moved to Italy and drank wine, they would have renamed LaGuardia, Giuliani Airport.

Speaker 10 A hundred percent. A hundred percent him.

Speaker 10 All he had to do was like not fall into the trap of this garbage with these people. And unfortunately, he kind of likes it, I think.

Speaker 10 I think Rudy has always been, I mean, even when I, when I was working for him, there was always kind of a star star fucker thing with Rudy.

Speaker 10 Like, I remember the Sopranos were just out, and man, he loved

Speaker 10 any cast member, crew member, any Sopranos adjacent person was always like, We've got to have so-and-so to Gracie, we've got to get so-and-so, and you know, whatever.

Speaker 10 Some politicians are like, We should call Stevie Van Zandt, we should plan a troll. Oh,

Speaker 10 Stevie would do a good troll,

Speaker 10 God. But no, look, I mean, this is a guy who had

Speaker 10 hundreds of millions of dollars back in the 2000s. He made a lot of money on Giuliani Partners, all this national security stuff he did.
He lost it all. He keeps losing everything all the time.

Speaker 10 And it's weird that he can't see that his proximate relationship with Trump is what's causing him in a large measure to lose everything over and over again. He just doesn't get it.

Speaker 10 Again, not a dumb man, but really morally flawed and deeply fucked up and deeply unable to process

Speaker 10 just how bad it's going to continue to get for him. If I could feel assured that Shay and Ruby would be getting their money, I would buy the coffee.

Speaker 10 I would buy the sedition coffee if I knew it was going to go to them. But I'm just not confident that that's going to happen.
Same here.

Speaker 10 And I think he will do everything possible to play fuck around with them until, you know, he's trying to run out the clock on his life, basically.

Speaker 10 And, you know, for a guy who is a chronic cigar smoker and heavy, heavy drinker at 80, he's lucky to still be around. They're never going to get what they deserve out of this very,

Speaker 10 you know, terrible situation that he put them in. That's macabre.
Okay. Speaking of dark stuff, a new ad, Donald Trump bleeded out a new ad on his social media feed there.
On Trash Social?

Speaker 10 Yeah, Trash Social. We don't really know yet.

Speaker 10 This might be a DeSantis situation where they're pretending like this was some fan that made it, but it turns out to be a little Nazi like Nate Hawkman on the staff that did it or something.

Speaker 10 But what happened essentially is they put out this ad in bold headlines that include such things as 15 million illegal aliens deported. So even the text was not particularly heartwarming.

Speaker 10 But the subtext, there were these faint headlines underneath that you had to like really kind of squint to look at.

Speaker 10 One of them said, quote, industrial strength is increased by the creation of a unified Reich. This is imagining what would happen in a Trump administration.

Speaker 10 Unified Reich, R-E-I-C-H, you might be familiar with that term.

Speaker 10 Failed congressional candidate Caroline Levitt, who's the spokesperson now, wrote this was reposted by a staffer who clearly did not see the word Reich while the president was in court.

Speaker 10 President was too busy in court defense.

Speaker 10 Rick, what say you about this one? Listen,

Speaker 10 Trump may not be the brightest guy, but he has a certain degree of like feral cunning.

Speaker 10 He has a certain degree of like animal instinct for shit that is going to fire up his base and cause a public controversy. He likes it.
And so I am not believing for a second the guy didn't see it.

Speaker 10 I'm also not believing for a second that very smart people like Chris La Savita and Susie Wiles, and I won't say Jason Miller is very smart, but bright enough. Your former colleague.

Speaker 10 We're just playing all the hits from your band. Yeah, right.
We got a Rick Wilson. This is your life.
Chinless Jason Miller.

Speaker 10 But none of these things happen around Trump Trump by accident. None of this stuff happens around Trump by, you know, some sort of weird set of coincidences.
He loves this kind of thing.

Speaker 10 He loves this kind of play. He loves this kind of like, I'm going to cause chaos and I'm going to cause, you know, I'm going to stir the shit.
He loves to stir the shit and he's very good at it.

Speaker 10 Let's be real. He's a talented guy for triggering.
a public disgust. And he's okay with that.
He likes that. And you know what?

Speaker 10 The people that made this ad, whoever the fuck they are, and I think they're the same people that produced the God Made Trump ad, which, you know, for the party of Christian values, the idolatry is

Speaker 10 rocking through the ceiling on that one. But it's far from the end of this kind of shit we're going to see this year because Trump gets it.

Speaker 10 And look, as I've said a million times, and I'm not the only one.

Speaker 10 I don't believe that Donald Trump is an actual Nazi, but I think the Nazis are okay with him, and he doesn't have any enemies to his right. He's adopted the bannon philosophy.

Speaker 10 And this is, I think, the important part of this because there's the trolling part.

Speaker 10 There's the how the fuck did we get here that we have a Republican presidential nominee and former president tweeting Reich references.

Speaker 10 The serious part that I think sometimes gets lost among our old friends. And when I say old friends, in this case, I'm not talking about Jason Miller.

Speaker 10 I'm talking about the ones that know better with Trump.

Speaker 10 You know, you see this a lot, which is like, well, I can't be for Biden because like the people around him, he's got these progressives around him, and they're wearing kefias, and they're pro-Hamas, and they're far left.

Speaker 10 That's not really the case. Like, those people actually dislike Joe Biden.

Speaker 10 And the true case is, regardless of what you think about Donald Trump's Nazi tendencies, like the young people that are working on these campaigns now, the early 20-somethings that have been attracted to Donald Trump and DeSantis for that matter, we've seen it time and again.

Speaker 10 And Tucker Carlson, we've seen it among the producers, all these controversies where we, it's it's like another 4chan account by a Tucker Carlson producer has been revealed with N-word all over it.

Speaker 10 Like there is a big group of racist, anti-Semitic, young bros that work on these campaigns around Donald Trump. That's how he ends up having dinner with Nick Puentes or lunch with Nick Puentes.

Speaker 10 Those are the people that Stephen Miller is going to hire if he gets in there.

Speaker 10 And like that is a serious and real threat that I think that sometimes like the Wall Street Journal crowd just doesn't take that seriously. And everyone really should.
I think that's right.

Speaker 10 And again, the gentry conservatives, the Wall Street Journal guys, the National Review guys, they have this sort of moral escape clause.

Speaker 10 It's like, well, I don't like Trump or Trump's tweets or Trumpism or Trump voters. However, the choice is either that or full communism.

Speaker 10 I'm like, what? Wait, what? And the irony underneath it all is that these guys are now saying things like, well, we have to vote for Trump.

Speaker 10 Otherwise, you know, we're going to have authoritarian socialists, you know, de-banking us and de-platforming us all.

Speaker 10 And yet, the projection with these people is so astounding because it's exactly what they're proposing for everybody else.

Speaker 10 You know, Project 2025 and all these things that we have been told over and over again, they want to do.

Speaker 10 And that when Trump says, you know, we're going to stop the poisoning of our blood and all these things, just add it all up. And you're like, wait a minute.

Speaker 10 They literally always tell you what they're going to do. They literally, every time, tell you exactly what they're going to do.
Why would you not listen to them?

Speaker 10 And our friends in that gentry conservative world, they have a deafness that they've set up, a blindness they've set up for themselves, so that they don't have to ever acknowledge that they're now party to some of the worst ideas and people in the world.

Speaker 10 Well, put. Speaking of the worst people in the world, we have a new segment on the podcast.
You know, our friend Johnny McIntyre? Yes. The deputy president? The gambler.

Speaker 10 Yeah, the deputy president. That's the right stuff.
Two fisted Johnny. Yeah, we have a new segment called The Right Stuff.

Speaker 10 It's important to keep an eye on this.

Speaker 10 I think in the day after, you know, some little Johnny McIntyre acolyte posts Trump will bring in the United Reich advertisement, we should listen a little bit more to what they have to say.

Speaker 10 Let's listen to a couple of Johnny's recent posts. Here's the first one.

Speaker 8 I'm just going to ask this one more time.

Speaker 9 Why do we only judge white people for owning slaves when every culture had them?

Speaker 10 You know, excuse me, I've got pneumonia, so I'm going to hack and cough a little bit. But Johnny, do you just want to go down to the dollar store and get yourself a white hood now?

Speaker 10 Because that's that language right there. And, you know, again, this is that tendency inside the Bannonite tendency of no enemies to my right.

Speaker 10 And whether or not Johnny McIntye is a deeply knowledgeable person about America's fraught history with, I don't know, chattel slavery, this is

Speaker 10 a real tell on what they believe. It's a real tell on what's inside their hearts.
These are not good people. These are not people who want to make America great again.

Speaker 10 These are people who want to have a return, not to the 1950s, but the 1850s. I know people think, oh, you're exaggerating, Wilson.
I'm really not.

Speaker 10 And remember, folks, this is the man, Johnny McIntyre, is the man who will be in charge of all presidential hiring for Donald Trump if he wins again.

Speaker 10 He will pick every single person in the administration. And remember, they're telling you very clearly, they're going to burn down everyone in the government who isn't a Trump-supporting acolyte.

Speaker 10 They're going to burn down everybody who doesn't swear fealty and allegiance to Donald Trump.

Speaker 10 Work that problem, folks, for a minute, and you're going to see that, again, they tell you everything they're going to to do they always tell you everything they're going to do these are the people just to put a bell on it that will staff he will choose the staffing the people that you know want to do apologia for slavery and put the unified right in videos are the people that will staff the next administration no matter how much you hate the craziest leftist on gw's campus

Speaker 10 that person is not going to be joe biden's head of personnel you know nope joe biden's staff is like mostly dlc old guys from the 19 early 90s, which is a problem in its own right, but it's a much better problem than having Johnny McIntyre around.

Speaker 10 Right.

Speaker 10 You can critique the Biden administration in a thousand different ways, and I have, but if Joe Biden came up and said, you know, I'm going to name the head of the Communist Youth League to a senior position, people would lose their minds.

Speaker 10 Fox would have a 24-7 crawl on the bottom of their screen, day seven, communists take over.

Speaker 10 But these people around Trump, the Johnny McIntys and the rest of them who are right now, whether they're inside government or outside government in the Trump era, part two,

Speaker 10 you know, fascist Boogaloo, they will be the people like the Jack Pesobiaks of the world. And you will see people in senior government positions who you would not let run a goddamn waffle house.

Speaker 10 I mean, folks, you should prepare yourselves for ideas like national security advisor Seb Gorka

Speaker 10 and the clownish stuff that you kind of want to laugh at, like, oh, these are idiots.

Speaker 10 A lot of them are idiots, but you know what? A lot of them have a very intentional, dark, evil, directed vision of America that, folks, you're not voting to build the wall.

Speaker 10 You're voting to put in to power people who are not in any way what you think they are. It is going to do a lot of damage.
All right. That was good enough.

Speaker 10 We'll save Johnny's other missives for a future episode. That was the right stuff.

Speaker 11 Some moments in your life stay with you forever.

Speaker 11 In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 11 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 11 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back.
Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one. So I started searching.

Speaker 11 And that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay.
It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live. Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story.

Speaker 10 eBay.

Speaker 11 Things people love.

Speaker 11 Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 3 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 6 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 3 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal.

Speaker 8 Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 2 Why is Adam after the Tanner family?

Speaker 7 What lengths will he go to?

Speaker 6 One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 10 We got to talk about the courtroom yesterday. So they uh the defense rested, as I said, at the start today.
So we've seen the end of their case, if you want to call it that. If you will.

Speaker 10 Yeah, the last witness that they called on the stand, speaking of idiots, was this guy, Bob Costello. They had to clear the courtroom yesterday for this clown.
Here's Judge Marshawn.

Speaker 10 I'm putting you on notice that your conduct is contemptuous. If you try to stare me down one more time, I will remove you from the stand.

Speaker 10 These are the types of, you know, Goombas that the Trump defense is putting forward.

Speaker 10 Costello, for his little background, for people who don't know, the reason why he's on the stand is that he tried to be the mediator between Cohen and Trump and Giuliani, our friend Rudy, in the aftermath of all the Stormy Daniels stuff in 2018.

Speaker 10 You'll be surprised, Rick, to hear that that relationship broke down when Giuliani stopped paying him. I am stunned by that news, Tim.

Speaker 10 I can't imagine a world where sometimes you need a criminal lawyer.

Speaker 10 So anyway, that was the star witness. His claim was that Cohen told him once that Trump never knew about the payment to Stormy Daniels.
So that's their main pushback.

Speaker 10 He did not work out for the defense, I think, as the defense expected he would work out for them. That was a shit show.

Speaker 10 That showed me that the Trump defense team took the hook that the prosecution kind of wanted them to take. They thought, oh, we can discredit Stormy Daniels.
We can discredit Michael Cohen.

Speaker 10 But the real guts of the case, Tim,

Speaker 10 are the receipts. I mean, a lot of this case is going to be based on the fact.

Speaker 10 Here's the check that Trump wrote, that Weiselberg approved, that he gave to Cohen to pay off this thing that we had an agreement on. There's a paper trail here.

Speaker 10 There's a line here of transactions and orders and communications that I think the prosecution has proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Speaker 10 And Costello up there was kind of a long bomb play to try to discredit Cohen. But for all Michael's flaws, he is a guy who ended up verifying.

Speaker 10 what the documents and the paper trail said, and the paper trail verified what Cohen said. And, you know, Michael is a passionate guy.
He is, he has been through a lot. I like Michael.

Speaker 10 He's a weird cat, but I like Michael. He's just so so for me.

Speaker 10 Yeah,

Speaker 10 I got you. No, I got you.
But I like the fact that he's a person who actually was so deep inside that world and got so fucked by it.

Speaker 10 And he's a good exemplar for people to understand that no matter what you are with Trump, no matter how close inside the family you think you are, no matter how much you've done for him, in the end, he will always screw screw you over.

Speaker 10 Yes.

Speaker 10 And that, as an exemplar, I think he's really valuable in the sort of political culture because right now, people like Susie Wiles and people like Chris La Cavita, they really believe like, I'm the one who solved the problem.

Speaker 10 I've broken the code. I'm going to be okay in the end.

Speaker 10 Nobody's ever okay in the end with that. Have you talked to Susie? Not recently.
It's been a long minute. We had one email.
Like after DeSantis fired her. So it's been a long time, you know?

Speaker 10 Yeah, for people who don't know, Susie Wiles is the Trump, is her title campaign manager, a leading campaign role, longtime Florida political operative, was my boss many, many years ago.

Speaker 10 Very smart on the John Huntsman campaign is what I was going to say. So, like, this whole like her going MAGA.

Speaker 10 I'm like, well, no, the John Huntsman campaign didn't turn well, but well, that's a whole another long story.

Speaker 10 But the point is, was that she was, I didn't see any of this, you know, we were like the squishy mods, so it's, it's been a journey.

Speaker 10 I've never read Susie in all the years I've known her as some sort of like right-winger. Idea.

Speaker 10 She's us. She's a bushy.
She's, you know,

Speaker 10 establishment Republican type who,

Speaker 10 for all her reasons, and look, part of this is Ron DeSantis.

Speaker 10 And there's a long, the Michael Cruz article, folks, if you haven't read it about Susie Wiles, it's a great piece of anthropology of, you know, she felt screwed over by DeSantis, who at the time represented the peak of the surviving establishment tendency in the party in a weird way.

Speaker 10 And then, you know, when she got thrown over the edge, she went to Trump, which, you know, he has a very weird magnetic kind of power with

Speaker 10 people who have grievances. And that ranges from serious people like a Susie Wiles down to, you know, the guy who thinks the Mexicans took his job.
It's just a terrible superpower.

Speaker 10 It's good insight, though. These people do think that they can fix him or they can be the one to stay on the edges and nobody can be that person.

Speaker 10 Speaking of Trump crimes, there's some news about the social media company. What did you you call Trash Social? Trash Social.
Yeah. So I don't know if you saw this.

Speaker 10 They had a report their Q1 revenue yesterday. Oh, I did.
Yeah. So total revenue for the company for the first quarter, $770,000.
Not bad.

Speaker 10 Like, not bad if you're running like a local mom and pop shop or something. Yeah.
Like pretty good for a quarter. Here's a problem.
Net loss for this quarter, $327.6 million.

Speaker 10 Like, what in the fuck is happening, Rick? Like, this is

Speaker 10 a crime happening. There's got to be some skim going on here.
There's got to be some sort of fraud here.

Speaker 10 As someone said to me this morning, jokingly, this is like, get your advisors at Bear Stearns to help you out on this one.

Speaker 10 These fundamentals are amazing. What the hell? How do you lose $327 million?

Speaker 10 Now, I think what they've done, and I don't know this for sure, I think what they're doing is trying to write off like their costs of IPO and cost of going public, all that stuff into this quarter.

Speaker 10 But this makes no sense. It's a meme stock completely.
There's no real fundamentals here. All the market valuation formulas are out the window now.

Speaker 10 The idea that it's still trading at a $6 billion market cap is because of the same suckers who were buying GameStop two years ago. Or maybe better, the same suckers that were buying NFTs.

Speaker 10 GameStop's still hanging around, but all those NFTs, all the based monkeys, the based monkeys, right? The clowns and the monkeys, all that stuff.

Speaker 10 Bored ape, all that.

Speaker 10 all the nft market is was a classic ponzi scheme this is a classic ponzi scheme there's no value there this company is only there because the name trump is attached to it and it is being juiced by people who you know i made a soprano's reference on twitter this morning this is the like the wabistics of myspace stocks it's utterly valueless and yet somehow the alternate reality bubble around trump still has enough these people like there's nothing trump does that doesn't make money.

Speaker 10 Oh, really?

Speaker 10 Look, I mean, the first auditors were already charged by the SEC. They have new auditors now.
Like, I don't exactly know what the crime is.

Speaker 10 I'm not a financial crimes expert, but it doesn't take one to know that, you know, just you only have to watch one CSI Miami episode to know that there's criming happening here.

Speaker 10 And, like, more people are to go down around them. And this is the other thing.
It's just like, again, back to these so-called credible people that want to stay around.

Speaker 10 If you give any of them truth serum, they all would say it. Of course.
I mean, like, everybody knows this is a fraud.

Speaker 10 There's nobody that's smart enough to read the Wall Street Journal and, you know, it could be an investor themselves who looks at this and says this is something other than a total fraud by a career huckster.

Speaker 10 Anybody who woke up this morning and said, wow, they lost $327 million and made $770,000. The EBITDA formula of earnings and valuation, the T doesn't stand for Trump, folks.

Speaker 10 This is disconnected from reality. If you're old enough to remember pets.com, this makes pets.com look like IBM.
It's insanity.

Speaker 10 I'm glad that IBIDA has finally made it into the Bullard podcast transcript history. A few more going down our running list of the fucking deplorables and the dumbassery today.

Speaker 10 Let's just go to Florida for a second. Here's a Florida twofer.
You're two Florida men. Let's listen to Wee Little Marco from the weekend.

Speaker 12 Will you accept the election results of 2024 no matter what happens, Senator?

Speaker 10 No matter what happens? No, if it's an unfair election, I think it's going to be

Speaker 10 decide. Senator, no matter what happens.

Speaker 10 I think you're asking the wrong person. The Democrats are the ones that have opposed every Republican victory since 2000.
Every single one. It's Hillary Clinton.
No Democrat has refused to concede.

Speaker 12 Hillary Clinton conceded. Senator, will you accept the election reference?

Speaker 10 Hillary Clinton said the election was stolen from her and that Trump was illegitimate. Kamala Harris agreed.
We have Democrats now. Okay, I can't listen to any more of this.

Speaker 10 He's such a little bitch.

Speaker 10 He's such a squirmy little bitch.

Speaker 10 You and I have both known Marco long enough to know that this person is a guy the chicken shit level of marco rubio is a historic artifact of american politics he will end up not being the character he thought he was going to play in the world he thought he was going to be this transformative figure who was going to bring a new youthful vitality to conservatism and it's turned out that marco is going to be I mean, when the movie is cast about Trump, he'll be like minion number seven on the catwalk.

Speaker 10 Unless he gets VP.

Speaker 10 Do you think he really wants it? Do you think he really wants it? No, he wants to be Secretary of State.

Speaker 10 That's what he's told people that I still know around him that he wants to be Secretary of State, that he can convince Trump he's an absolute loyalist, and that he will represent Trump faithfully.

Speaker 10 He'll be a great Secretary of State as Donald Trump lets China take Taiwan. That'll be a great part of his legacy.
Right. It's going to be fantastic as Russian tanks roll into the Baltics.

Speaker 10 And Marco says, well, America's interests are not really served by protecting NATO and Europe. Our Our allies are, they're not paying their fair share.

Speaker 10 I have a sense of pity for Marco because he is a very lost guy. Two years ago, he was desperately trying to get a job as a university president anywhere in Florida.

Speaker 10 He would have taken like Palatka Junior College to get out of D.C.

Speaker 10 But now that he sort of senses maybe Trump's got a chance to win, he's playing the game again of, oh, yeah, I can be Secretary of State.

Speaker 10 Rick, you've gone soft. I have no pity for Marco.
I just want to say, it's fine. It's fine.
We all do. It's like John Boehner.
Soon you're going to to be crying on every podcast.

Speaker 10 You know, eventually you just, you know, men, we just get into our feelings as we age. It's okay.
But I'm also softening, but I'm still sharp enough to not have pity for Marco. I wish I had feelings.

Speaker 11 Some moments in your life stay with you forever.

Speaker 11 In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 11 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 11 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back.
Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one.

Speaker 11 So I started searching and that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay.
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Speaker 10 Since I had you on, I just felt like I wanted a DeSantis update. What's happening in the freedom state? Because I just, it's you're living it.
I just, I see it in the periphery.

Speaker 10 Like, you know, it comes across my Twitter feed, like, DeSantis is having a press conference with some dead cows.

Speaker 10 And he's like, here in the freedom state, we're going to ban any innovative attempts to create lab-grown meat. Total ban on that.
That's happening here in Florida.

Speaker 10 What any other updates from our little dictator? So, the biggest update from We Ronnie.

Speaker 10 So, first off,

Speaker 10 he's tried to keep his core team together of people who are going to run his 2028 presidential campaign, which is already well under steam. They're running Casey for governor.

Speaker 10 That's going to be a fun primary against Matt Gates and Byron Donalds. You really think so?

Speaker 10 I just, I can't get, God is not that good to me that we could get a Casey DeSantis, Matt Gates, Byron Donalds primary.

Speaker 10 Young Matthew understands that Washington is not going to be any fun for him over time. He's exceeded the limits of trolling as a, as a hobby there.
Do Do you have room in your guest house?

Speaker 10 Because I might have to move to Tallahassee for that primary, at least for a couple of months. I have a compound, as you may know.
So you're welcome anytime.

Speaker 10 But the dumbest thing he's done, and it's caused a huge rift inside the party, is he has gone all in on opposition to the abortion amendment and on the marijuana decriminalization amendment.

Speaker 10 Those are going to be the hill he decides to die on in Florida.

Speaker 10 And the Democratic Party of Florida has been so hapless, snake bit, fucked up, broken, bad at its work for so long that while it's still very, very difficult for them to win Florida, we are now in a situation where DeSantis deciding to do this on an amendment that has like 60% Republican support and 97% Democratic support.

Speaker 10 DeSantis deciding to burn it down and spend a ton of money to fight this abortion amendment in Florida. It's the greatest gift he could have given the Democrats.

Speaker 10 It's going to make Trump spend money in Florida in some of these areas.

Speaker 10 It hasn't put the state in play for Biden in a fundamental way, but it is such a dumb move. The best strategy was to ignore it.
Let it go. What about the Senate race?

Speaker 10 Is there any hope in the Senate race or not really? Yeah, Debbie Muscarel-Powell is a Democratic candidate against Rick Scott. She was a refugee from Ecuador.
She is a fluent Spanish speaker.

Speaker 10 She's a person who fled authoritarianism. And so she can neutralize some of that Hispanic South Florida thing of, you know, soy comunista.

Speaker 10 Every time someone mentions a Democrat's name, it's a lot harder to play that game with her. And I will say this.

Speaker 10 Rick Scott is, he's a person who proves that if you put enough thrust behind anything, you can shoot it into orbit.

Speaker 10 And Rick Scott has spent, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars of his stolen Medicare bounty getting himself elected repeatedly in the state of Florida. He's not quite the same guy he was.

Speaker 10 He seems a little bit off-kilter. And some people that are close to him are like, he's getting older.
He's not, you know, he doesn't have the same sort of like stupid confidence he once had.

Speaker 10 It's a tough race. She's got a chance to try to engage with him on a level that isn't Charlie Christ, on a level that isn't, you know, the sort of generic Democrat.

Speaker 10 But she's got to do a lot of things right. But I do think she's an impressive candidate, just a hard hill to climb.

Speaker 10 It's like Florida and Texas are tough states for our Democratic friends, and they're going to remain so for a long time. One more Florida item.

Speaker 10 I just have to shout out JVL's triad yesterday if people didn't read it. It was about the killing of Roger Forston.
And the TLDR on this story is: Roger Forston was a black, 23-year-old airman.

Speaker 10 He was at his home in Fort Walton Beach. Somebody else in the apartment complex, I guess, calls the county sheriff's department.
He's just sitting up there on a FaceTime with his girlfriend.

Speaker 10 The cop comes to the door, bangs in the door. He's holding his gun, legal firearm, constitutional constitutional carry in Florida, and opens the door and the cop shoots him and he dies.

Speaker 10 The funeral is his past weekend.

Speaker 10 The interesting thing about the JVL piece is, and because it ties to the Texas thing we've been talking about, and I know you're a Second Amendment guy, is just like, it's almost too obvious to say, but it merits saying, just like the hypocrisy and the latent racism of like the NRA and this movement.

Speaker 10 Trump speaks at the NRA this weekend, and there is no recognition of either Forston or of the protester who was shot in Texas, you know, and killed.

Speaker 10 And these guys were both carrying their firearms legally, and they get shot because of it, one by the state, one by a vigilante MAGA freak.

Speaker 10 And it's like there's no, I mean, it's a pretty dark place here where there's no acknowledgement, really, of these victims.

Speaker 10 There is a cop culture inside the Republican Party now that will defend this officer, even though the body camera footage shows that Roger Fortson was dead on the floor before the officer started yelling, drop your weapon, drop your weapon.

Speaker 10 And without a body camera, it would have been described in that world as, you know, black guy attacks cop.

Speaker 10 And I'm sorry, if we're going to honor the Second Amendment, it has to apply to everybody, regardless of skin color. Hey, look, we got swatted at my house a few months ago.
And

Speaker 10 all of our cameras and alarms start going off. And my natural instinct, because we've had a lot of problems, obviously, my natural instinct is to press the buttons, pop the gun gun out, and walk out.

Speaker 10 I didn't do it because I looked on the cameras and I saw a line of police cars parked up at the top of my driveway.

Speaker 10 Now, if I'd been a young black guy,

Speaker 10 chances are that could have gone a lot differently. And this idea that if you're going to have

Speaker 10 states that have constitutional carry, if you're going to have states that have the ability of citizens to exercise that right, then the police have to start treating it like it is something that the shoot first stuff cannot continue.

Speaker 10 It is not a world where we can excuse the behavior of some cops when they do things like this and where we don't reconcile, you know, that there are trade-offs in that risk profile, especially if you're African-American in this country, that

Speaker 10 we have not addressed as a society. Well, go read JVL's piece if you had in the Roger Forrest and Right.

Speaker 10 It's just

Speaker 10 unbelievable. Okay, I want to make us feel like Republicans again for one second, and then I want to talk a little strategy with with you before we let you go.
The UN yesterday, did you see this?

Speaker 10 I did not. This is an example of

Speaker 10 dumbassery non-maga category.

Speaker 10 Despite earning the nickname the Butcher of Tehran for presiding over Iran's human rights abuses, the United Nations on Monday held a moment of silence for Ibrahim Raisi after the Iranian president died in a helicopter crash.

Speaker 10 They all stood.

Speaker 10 Security Council, silence, including our member. I saw it because it was shared by press TV, the Iranian state TV.
These guys can't get out of their fucking way.

Speaker 10 Or maybe they actually just are sympathetic with the Iranians, but it makes it hard to take the moral high ground on things, you know, like what's happening in Gaza when you're giving a moment of silence to the butcher of Tehran.

Speaker 10 When Raisi was killed in this helicopter crash, I got a little bit of static from it, but not much. But I said, listen, I didn't want Raisi to die in a helicopter crash.

Speaker 10 I wanted him to be beaten to death by Iranian pissed-off women because he is systematically engaged in the abuse and oppression of women in Iran at a level that Americans do not realize.

Speaker 10 And the UN, of course, has put Iran on the UN Human Rights Commission. What?

Speaker 10 That's like putting Donald Trump in charge of the treasury of a Boy Scout troop. He's going to rape and pillage.
He's going to steal the money.

Speaker 10 The Iranian regime, this is a regime that kills unveiled women on the street. that beats women to death for dancing on videos, that hangs gays from cranes.
These are not good people.

Speaker 10 There's nothing good about the government and the leadership of this medieval theocracy in Iran. It is a universally corrosive force in the world.

Speaker 10 We should not be acknowledging and saying, oh, poor, poor, pitiful him. Listen, I'm a pilot and, you know, flying your helicopter in bad weather is a bad idea.

Speaker 10 But in this case, you know, I salute the pilot's judgment because it took some very, very bad people off the board. I have zero fucks about the Iranian leadership, just none.
I'm snapping.

Speaker 10 I come in a New York Times staff meeting for that.

Speaker 10 That's good. Okay.
I want to get a little campaign shop talk before I let you go. Yeah, yeah.
I'm worried. I don't know where you're at on the nervousness versus confidence scale about this election.

Speaker 10 I know one thing, though. We are both aligned at the scale of the threat here.
And the most important thing in front of us is taking out this fucking Burnt Sienna bastard. Yep.

Speaker 10 I don't want to get into poll talk and crosstabs diving and all that. Like, it's just reality.
Like it's not one poll.

Speaker 10 It's like in Pennsylvania, in Georgia, in Arizona, consistently, every poll, Joe Biden is losing. He's got to win one of those.
So my question for you is, thoughts on the state of play?

Speaker 10 And if, you know, Uncle Joe, President Joe called you tomorrow, what advice do you have for where we're at right now?

Speaker 10 I think Pennsylvania is expensive, but it's the easiest one to change the water temperature. I think Arizona has prospects.

Speaker 10 At Lincoln, we're heavily advertising in Maricopa now, specifically targeting pro-choice Republican women. That's where the fish are.
And, you know, fish where the fish are.

Speaker 10 Like everybody else, we're looking at four states where there's a window of opportunity.

Speaker 10 And it's what everybody else is doing too, for a large part, because, you know, again, that's where the swing votes still remain in the world. It's in the Wow counties in Wisconsin.

Speaker 10 It's in Oakland and Macomb in Michigan. It's in Bucks and a couple of other counties in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 10 Trump has benefited for the last several months from a fairly obvious and fairly consistent framing by the national media.

Speaker 10 You know, Trump may be an incipient fascist and a criminal, but Biden is so very, very old. How will Biden's age play in Trump's criminal trap? And I get it.

Speaker 10 I get that the Times is butt hurt that Joe Biden won't give them a private interview, and so they're taking it out on him.

Speaker 10 I get that there is a novelty-seeking behavior in the media to make this into a bigger drama, a worse race. This race should not be closed.
This should be a goddamn blowout.

Speaker 10 And yet here we are where Trump has a meaningful chance to win this election.

Speaker 10 And there is a sense among the moneyed class in the country that it's time to pony up for Donald, and they're giving him money. There's a sense in the media class that the race is over.

Speaker 10 And so they're framing it and covering it that way. And I think what it comes down to, Tim, and I've been thinking about this.

Speaker 10 I've been been writing something about this last couple hours before I came on with you. There's a sense in the pro-democracy movement that they're playing offense and we're playing defense.

Speaker 10 And the American people traditionally want to see some fight in the dog when you got a dog fight going on. And I think that there's a sense of like

Speaker 10 we're warning them about the apocalypse. Trump is like, fuck it, we're having a bonfire.
Let's do it. Let's get have a bonfire.
And that idea is kind of appealing to a lot of people.

Speaker 10 and it's profoundly dangerous, and the stakes could not be higher. I said to a Times person recently, I'm like, who was defending to me their coverage of Biden, like we're reflecting

Speaker 10 what a lot of Americans want to read about.

Speaker 10 And I said, you know, the minute he's in office, you guys are first up against the fucking wall.

Speaker 10 You guys are going to be day one targeted in ways that right now you think you're being even-handed and fair. These people are not, they're not trying to go in and pass just a tax bill.

Speaker 10 They're trying to fundamentally recalibrate what America is, including things that will reduce or eliminate the freedom of the press, including things that are incomprehensible to people who live in a comfortable bubble in Manhattan or in McLean, Virginia, who say, oh, you know,

Speaker 10 it'll be crazy, but it won't be that crazy. What could go wrong? Everything, folks, could go wrong.

Speaker 10 And that's why the stakes are where they are i think we have always underappreciated the risk that trump poses to the future of the country maybe not you and me but you know no no no no a lot of people have for sure and i mean couldn't be more lined on it last thing just one more strategic question for you because it's something i've been noodling on i'm interested in your take i'm interested to hear you guys are doing abortion ads that makes sense pro-choice women the group i'm worried about is people in the Democratic coalition who are less engaged, who inflation has hit hard because maybe their salaries haven't gone up as much as, right?

Speaker 10 And so the economic message, I keep vacillating back and forth between whether Joe Biden should be going out there and doing mourning in America again and, hell yeah, America's got the best, or whether he needs to be doing the man, we're working on that, and more nuanced, more empathetic message.

Speaker 10 What would your advice be on that? I think the latter, because remember, one of the reasons Barack Obama, I think, did very well in 2011 and 12 was that we were coming out of the 2008 crisis.

Speaker 10 And he always framed it like, we're we're getting better, but we're not there yet. We're doing better, but we got a long way to go.

Speaker 10 I think Biden has to frame that because the economic pessimism in this country now,

Speaker 10 as a lot of people have pointed out, is now inversely driven. It used to be that your feelings about the economy informed your feelings about politics.

Speaker 10 Now your feelings about politics inform your feeling about the economy.

Speaker 10 And so because of the softness in Biden's base, in the center of his base, and the more moderate Democrats Democrats who are working people, who are paying more for gas, who are getting hit with inflation.

Speaker 10 It's important not to pretend that those people are having a great life right now. They're having a tough time.
This is not easy for them right now.

Speaker 10 And so I think that he has to continue to be cautious about it. He has to continue to be like, we're making progress.
We're doing good work. We're helping you.
But it's not.

Speaker 10 sunshine and roses and puppies and kittens right now. It's still a long road.

Speaker 10 We're going to see in you know, the next week, Trump's going to be found guilty, I think.

Speaker 10 And I think we're going to see a group of people that have embarrassed me as a former Republican watching these idiots wear the same outfit, wear the white shirt, red tie, blue suit uniform, going to New York to crawl across broken glass to kiss Trump's ass.

Speaker 10 I think we're going to see that going into overdrive. These people are, the cultishness of it and the political ambition of it is staggering.

Speaker 10 I find it so offensive that people who are supposedly representing their states and their districts don't give a shit about what they do for their people. They care about Trump.
That's it.

Speaker 10 The fucking outfits, the little mini Trumps. It's so weird.

Speaker 10 Why don't you guys all just wear fucking jumpsuits now, you know, with logos on them. Make wonder bread.
So weird. Rick Wilson, co-founder of the Lincoln Project, host of the enemies list.

Speaker 10 He writes Rick Wilson's sub stack. Maybe my future landlord, depending on how things go.

Speaker 10 Thanks. Thanks for coming back to the Bulwark podcast.
We'll see you again soon, brother. Anytime, Tim, thanks for having me.

Speaker 10 All right, guys, we're gonna be back here tomorrow with an update from the trial and a special guest. We'll see you all then.

Speaker 9 Peace. I was up in the morning with the TV blurring, brushed my teeth, sitting watching the news.
All the beaches were closed, the ocean was a Red Sea, but there was no one there to part it into.

Speaker 9 There was no fresh salad cause there's hypers in the cabin. Staten Island disappeared at noon.

Speaker 9 And they say the Midwest is in great distress, and NASA blew up the moon. The ozone layer has no ozone anymore and you're gonna leave me for the guy next door.
I'm sick of you.

Speaker 9 I'm sick of you.

Speaker 9 They arrested the mayor for an illegal favor, sold the Empire State to Japan. And Oliver North married William C.
Corden, gave birth to a little Tayran.

Speaker 9 And the Ayatollah aboard a nuclear warship. If he dies, he wants to go out in style.
And there's nothing to eat that don't carry the stink of some human waste whiz dumped in the Nile

Speaker 9 well one thing is certainly true no one here knows what to do and I'm sick of you

Speaker 9 I'm sick of you

Speaker 9 the radio said there were 400 dead in some small town in Arkansas some whacked out trucker drove into a nuclear reactor killed everybody he saw Now he's on Morton Downey and he's glowing and shiny.

Speaker 9 Doctors say this is a medical advance. They say the bad makes the good and there's something to be learned in every human experience.

Speaker 9 Well, I know one thing that really is true. This here's a zoo and the keeper ain't chewing.
I'm sick of it.

Speaker 9 I'm sick of you.

Speaker 9 They ordained the Trumps and then he got the mumps. He died being treated at Mount Sinai.
And my best friend Bill died from a poison pill. Some wired doctors prescribed for stress.

Speaker 9 My arms and legs are shrunk, the food all has lumps. They discovered some animal no one's ever seen.
He was an inside trader eating a rubber tire after running over Rudy Giuliani.

Speaker 9 They say the president's dead, no one can find his head. He's been missing out for weeks.

Speaker 9 But no one noticed it. He seemed so fit.
I'm sick of it.

Speaker 9 I'm sick of you.

Speaker 9 I'm so sick of you.

Speaker 9 Bye, bye, bye.

Speaker 10 The Bullard Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

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