A.B. Stoddard: Liz Cheney Groupie

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Speaker 24 Dude, this new bacon, egg, and chicken biscuit from AMPM, total winner, winner chicken breakfast. Chicken breakfast? Come on, I think you mean chicken dinner, bro.

Speaker 23 Nah, brother.

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Speaker 23 All right, let me try it. Hmm, okay, yeah.

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Speaker 23 All right, folks, happy Easter. A couple quick housekeeping notes for you.
I was going to do a mailbag today, but me and A.B.

Speaker 23 Stoddard just spent like 10 minutes just loving up on Liz Cheney at the end of this podcast. And so we didn't have time to get to it.
So I will do a mailbag on Monday after the Bill Crystal episode.

Speaker 23 So if you have questions, email Bullwarkpodcast at thebulwark.com. I want some policy and politics questions, but ask you about other stuff too.
You know, let your freak flag fly.

Speaker 23 One of the mailbag questions that many people ask is, can you please tell us what the closing song titles are? Blah, blah, blah. Yes, we do.
I have a Spotify playlist.

Speaker 23 We are going to put the playlist in the show notes of every Friday's episode. And if you're in the comments section, share it with people who ask so I don't have to keep doing it.

Speaker 23 And just a reminder, if you want to just troll me in the comments instead of sending emails, that is a special feature for our Bulwark Plus members.

Speaker 23 So just go to thebulwark.com slash free trial to get a 30-day free trial of the Bulwark Plus. We would appreciate your support.
Up next,

Speaker 23 Alexandra A.B. Stoddard.

Speaker 23 Hello and welcome to the Easter Weekend Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.
I'm not showing any sacrilegious swindler Bibles this weekend.

Speaker 23 We are spinning Beyoncé's new country record, and I'm here with A.B. Stoddard.
Hello, A.B.

Speaker 23 Hi, Tim. Or should I call you Alexandra? I was able to have a beer at the Great Kingpin Bar in New Orleans with your daughter recently.
And we started talking.

Speaker 23 And she was like, so when did you meet Alexandra? And I looked at her. I was thinking, who are you talking about?

Speaker 26 I need to back up for everybody that when Tim graciously showed up

Speaker 26 to meet my daughter in New Orleans with a family friend in our company Slack. Tim says, I just met Abe Stoddard Jr.

Speaker 26 And I said, Tim, oh, you're the best. Thanks for showing up.
And I think the whole company, Tim, thinks that I sent you out of your

Speaker 26 marathon and whirlwind of work duties out to a bar to like babysit my 22-year-old daughter. And not that you just happened to join up with her meeting up with a good family friend.

Speaker 26 But she was thrilled to meet you.

Speaker 23 Cannot stop talking about how hilarious you are and how whip you are.

Speaker 23 She was awesome. She was awesome.
She was great. She's great.

Speaker 23 It's a good family. You've been a good mother, I think.
It's good parenting. So it was very lovely to meet her.
And as a gift,

Speaker 23 I have a little audio present for you.

Speaker 23 I haven't told you what we're starting with today, but it's kind of like a little Easter treat, like something you might find in your Easter basket, but in your ears. Let's take a listen.

Speaker 23 So don't think, just jump.

Speaker 23 You can't give up.

Speaker 23 Know that anything

Speaker 23 is possible.

Speaker 23 Have faith, believe, just jump. Oh, this is the short version.

Speaker 23 Okay,

Speaker 23 I can't do it. Jason, please stop.
Please save me.

Speaker 23 Stop it.

Speaker 23 Stop it.

Speaker 23 Oh, my God.

Speaker 23 That's the new co-chair of the RNC, Lara Trump.

Speaker 23 She's got a single out today.

Speaker 23 Anything is possible when you marry the stupidest Trump child. You know, you can become the co-chair of one of our great political parties.

Speaker 23 You can become a top 40 artist.

Speaker 26 It's a nice life.

Speaker 26 And I think she does exercise videos with celebs. Tim, I think I learned from you.

Speaker 26 Who did we learn from that Ed Henry helped her put that album out or that single?

Speaker 23 Yeah, yeah, that was Mona.

Speaker 23 Mona was doing investigative journalism on that i think and reported to us that uh ed henry who is booted from fox for sexual harassment allegedly and is now i guess i don't know i guess a magazine

Speaker 23 yeah and i think also the january 6th choir i believe ed henry is also

Speaker 23 also has some some imprisoned clients

Speaker 23 Woof. You know, I don't know.
What do you think it says about the state of the Republican Party now that the co-chair is putting out just cringe-tastic singles?

Speaker 23 singles and they're hosting fundraisers for the RNC where the money first goes to her dad's legal fund.

Speaker 26 I just loved the conversation you guys had on the next level about this.

Speaker 23 Like, it's just full-on third-world

Speaker 26 dictator, you know, style. I mean, as JVL said, you only trust the family and they get to run everything.

Speaker 26 No one has any visibility into the funding, the future plans for the funding, the formulas for how it'll be divvied up in terms of what goes to the mass of the legal defense fund, what's left for down ballot and state parties and candidates that are supposed to be creating the Republican Party of tomorrow, like there's ever going to be a post-Trump family Republican Party.

Speaker 26 So donors want to believe that

Speaker 26 this is the last hurrah for Donald Trump, that he's going to be a lame duck second term, come back president if he wins, and then that will be the end of it.

Speaker 26 And they are giving to an organization that's now run by him

Speaker 26 and

Speaker 26 basically subsidizes his needs. And the money goes, as I noted last week, straight in the new formula.

Speaker 26 It can get to the RNC if there's a mega monster event. But most of it goes first to the Trump campaign, which is struggling.

Speaker 26 It's less than half of Biden's haul at the end of February is what Trump ends up with. And then it goes to Save America.
And Save America literally funds the kids. And Melania is stylist.

Speaker 26 They call it strategy consulting, not strategic consulting, strategy consulting. She doesn't appear in public anymore except for funerals.
So it's not her clothing and her hair.

Speaker 26 I don't know what it is that they're consulting with her about.

Speaker 26 Maybe, you know, another stab at the divorce, but it is, it is completely out of some bad TV show or soap opera, you you know, and it's it's like the Dallas dynasty of politics.

Speaker 26 And donors are, they know this, Tim, and they're going along. They know that in months and from now and next year, they will

Speaker 23 have

Speaker 26 no say

Speaker 26 and will, of course, never raise any objections into what the RNC does for the Trump family and for their future. It's not about the future of the party.

Speaker 26 And everyone who's spending their money on this deserve this because they're going in and acquiescing to this pretty soberly.

Speaker 26 I mean, they know exactly what the Trump family is doing, and this is what they want, and they're going to get it hard.

Speaker 23 So, that's how I feel about it. We have a specific donor we're going to talk about in a little bit.
I do kind of wonder if Mussolini's daughter-in-law was kind of an artist.

Speaker 23 Maybe she had an opera, a single that she was doing on the side. I don't know.
And everyone had to kind of go to the Italian opera and pretend like it was good.

Speaker 23 You can kind of

Speaker 23 imagine this.

Speaker 26 I like the title, though, Everything is Possible, because now at the RNC, everything is possible. Or that's part of her refrain.

Speaker 23 For the Trumps. Okay, on the donor thing, just really quick, Biden raised a bunch of money last night in New York with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama and one of our competitor podcasts, Smartless.

Speaker 23 You know, we're available also for these bookings, guys. I know I wasn't on Arrested Development.

Speaker 23 The Trump campaign has attacked Biden because there was an officer funeral that was happening at the same time, Jonathan Diller that Trump went to.

Speaker 23 And so I'm curious what your thoughts are on that critique, but also I do think that it is no, again, like the gap in fundraising here is pretty significant.

Speaker 23 I'm like, I'm pretty pessimistic on how much money actually matters in presidential campaigns, but we're getting to a point where Biden has so much more than Trump that it is a real advantage.

Speaker 23 What do you think?

Speaker 26 I'm with you, Tim. I think that we lost so many traditional building blocks of politics in 2016.

Speaker 26 And I think the metrics that we used to pay attention to and value have really gone away and eroded retail campaigning, endorsements, and television advertising. And I think money.

Speaker 26 I mean, I watched those Senate races like you did in 2020 when we were told also in the polling that we were going to have all these Democrats just knock it out in red states from Iowa to Montana to Kansas to South Carolina to Kentucky.

Speaker 26 And they all lost badly and they raised so much money. And so I just, I don't know how far that'll get get Biden.

Speaker 26 My thinking is I'm really hoping that they have a really sophisticated social media plan of attack because of what we're seeing on the left with kids and what they're being fed about the war in Gaza.

Speaker 26 So that becomes the biggest impediment in terms of the coalition. And I don't know if money can get at that.
I hope that it will.

Speaker 26 And, you know, it always will fund.

Speaker 26 you know, get out on the ground stuff. That is important.

Speaker 23 But I do wonder, like you, whether or not that's going to be able the biggest challenge right now is the information bubble right does money break through that or do you just fight fire with fire online so we'll know that you know by next cycle but not now yeah i think it's not nothing that biden is able to be up on the air framing some of this you know framing some of his arguments a little bit we're seeing modest movement in the polls very modest but it's not nothing i'd rather be in biden's position than in trump's i guess we'll put it that way on the financial side of things but we'll see the extent yeah we'll see the extent of the difference i want to talk about something happy, and then we'll get into the sad stuff.

Speaker 23 How about that? Or do you want to flip? Do you want to do happy first or sad?

Speaker 26 No, it's Easter.

Speaker 23 He's risen.

Speaker 26 I can go everywhere.

Speaker 26 I can go down.

Speaker 23 Yeah, I guess it's Good Friday, technically.

Speaker 23 Yeah, maybe actually, let's do that. We'll end with Liz Cheney.
We'll resurrect the podcast with Liz Cheney at the end. It's Good Friday.

Speaker 23 So we'll start then in the dark place with the concerns about the Biden campaign that were in the Politico article this morning by our friend Jonathan Martin.

Speaker 23 JMart writes that Joe Biden has apparently not contacted George Bush, Mike Pence, Larry Hogan, Chris Christie, Paul Ryan, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, Todd Young, Bill Cassidy, and Lisa Murkowski.

Speaker 23 He did call Haley the day she dropped out. I don't do anything on this podcast that I don't tell my friends privately.

Speaker 23 Told people in the Biden world that I think that they should be doing full court press on this. I think many of these people are gettable.
I read the article with some consternation.

Speaker 23 It is only March, but I don't know, man.

Speaker 23 I know there's a lot happening. Gaza, Ukraine, but this should be Biden's wheelhouse, right?

Speaker 26 And that's what Jay Mart does a really good job of articulating that Biden more than everybody in his cohort, in the Senate now, in the Senate then, when he was vice president for Obama.

Speaker 26 Congressional Democrats during Obama felt, you know, ignored by the president, but the vice president was always scrambling around around to not only cut the deals and the negotiating, but the backslapping and the connecting.

Speaker 26 And that's his gift, and he knows how necessary it is. And so, at this great deficit that

Speaker 26 I just noted in his coalition, he knows from 2020 he won with Republicans. At that point, it was 6%.

Speaker 26 We're obviously really counting on that number growing this time after January 6th among Republicans. And the Haley returns, even after she dropped out, seemed to be encouraging.

Speaker 26 It's great he called Haley. It's great that his campaign, according to reporting in the Dispatch Today, have reached out to some Haley donors.
But you don't just go after the Haley money.

Speaker 26 You have to speak to those voters and you have to speak directly to the people that you just listed.

Speaker 26 And I always wondered why, once he got into office in early 21, he didn't reach out to Romney immediately. And Romney actually went on the record and said that.

Speaker 26 You know, I never heard from the Biden campaign. I mean, that's just crazy.
So this is such a gimmicky, it's just such an unforced error.

Speaker 26 And I obviously hope that Jay Mart's column, you know, causes some consternation in people closer to the campaign than you and I are because they've got to take action.

Speaker 26 Like he said, why not have Chris Christie to launch? I mean, that's just Chris Christie turns no labels down. There's only one thing left for that guy.
In your words, the hammer job.

Speaker 26 I mean, that's it, right? He's got to go on TV and pound every day. He doesn't have to support Biden.
All he has to do is prosecute the case against Trump.

Speaker 26 And so there's no excuse for the Biden people not to come to these Republicans and at least, like JVL keeps saying, thank Mike Pence.

Speaker 26 You don't even have to ask him for his vote yet, but you start by thanking him. Joe Biden knows Mike Pence.

Speaker 26 This is madness that he hasn't reached out and said, what you've done to up your death threat level in the last two weeks is such a service to this country.

Speaker 26 And you'll take your place in history among the bravest people of great integrity. This is

Speaker 26 bananas.

Speaker 26 Okay, sorry for my rant.

Speaker 23 No, please, good rant, and ask them for their advice. You know, make them feel like they have an ear.
You know, maybe that makes a difference.

Speaker 23 Biden's busy. Jill's, maybe let's get Jill a yellow legal pad and she can start calling through all the wives or calling some of these folks themselves.
I had Larry Hogan take a call from Jill.

Speaker 23 So, anyway, I mean, in my fantasy world, for our Biden friends who are listening to my fantasy world, do you remember during the obama years when when biden i was never invited to one of these things maybe you are a b you're an insider or biden had the uh the parties up at the naval observatory where he'd have the super soaker You know, were you ever invited to a super soaker party?

Speaker 23 Okay, well, Biden would take the super soaker out and like spray the journalists.

Speaker 23 They had a barbecue, like a summer barbecue. I kind of forget.

Speaker 23 I forget exactly what was the 4th of July thing. Can't we all envision that together? You know, Biden out there, like Scranton Joe with his super soaker, spraying Chris Christie, you know,

Speaker 23 at least his parents.

Speaker 23 Can we spray mother, you know, spraying mother a little bit, kind of teasing with her? Like, you know, everybody having some ribs. Like, this seems, that seems smart.

Speaker 23 I think people would come to that party.

Speaker 23 I think many of them would come to the party.

Speaker 26 I think they'd come to the party.

Speaker 23 I think mother would not take well of the super soaker, but I'm so here for it. I really am.

Speaker 23 Okay, well, he's gone, Haley. Let's just, let's just turn it.
I guess, let's just not let our imaginations be limited by people. Like, I know, hey, by the way, I get it.

Speaker 23 You got to work, Bernie, you got to work AOC. You got to do that too.
It's a busy job. It's a hard job.

Speaker 23 I'm not saying I don't need special treatment, but one little party, that's one little barbecue of people that haven't endorsed Donald Trump. It's all an essay.

Speaker 26 Also, I just think that it's important for the coalition of people we're trying to put together and keep together that we remind people it's not but, it's both and. Okay.

Speaker 26 It's not but bernie but aoc right it's we have to hold a lot of truths together and a lot of disparate people in this coalition at the same time yeah but from gaza to like calling paul ryan right it's both and

Speaker 23 nobody said you were signing up for an easy job saving democracy he lost one voter though eric levine his vote in new york i don't know is going to matter that much but he's a prominent fundraiser i had the just pleasure of getting to meet this gentleman, Eric Levine, on Daytime MSNBC a few weeks ago.

Speaker 23 And we'll put the video of that in the show notes here. I think we played it on the podcast once before.
And we had a heated exchange on MSNBC.

Speaker 23 At the time, he was claiming he hadn't decided who he was going to vote for. But all of his complaints were about Joe Biden.
He's a Nikki Haley fan. And he was happy.

Speaker 23 He is praising Mitch McConnell for being a team player and not voting to convict Trump or not opposing Trump, even after Trump made racist jokes about his wife.

Speaker 23 So we kind of had a little bit of exchange about that. And then afterwards, it got a little heated on set.

Speaker 23 And then afterwards, offset, he said to me that people like me with my condescending judgmental attitude about Trump supporters and the campus progressives is what's going to force people like him to vote for Trump.

Speaker 23 And he's not going to do it yet. That was February.
This is March. He sends out an email to his friends that say the exact same thing he said to me basically in the green room.

Speaker 23 He had some concerns about January 6th, but as an American Jew, he questions whether there's a place in America for my grandchildren, if the cancer of the social justice agenda continues to metastasize, becoming ever more built into the laws that govern everyday regulations.

Speaker 23 He goes on to talk about white privilege. He doesn't like that phrase.
He talks a lot about the social justice agenda and how they've sided with the Palestinians. Nothing about Joe Biden.

Speaker 23 We're on paragraph 12 here. Now he finally mentions Joe Biden and he thinks that Joe Biden's putting a little too much distance between Israel.
No mention of Ukraine or Putin in here.

Speaker 23 And then he goes, the real danger to American Jews is the Jew haters running around in the streets and on campus quads.

Speaker 23 No mention of the anti-Semite white nationalists that Donald Trump had lunch with there.

Speaker 23 Goes on, Harvard doesn't like MIT, doesn't like the University of Pennsylvania president, even though two of those three presidents have been kicked out.

Speaker 23 And then he says that the people protesting Biden are the core of his voting base. That doesn't quite make sense to me.

Speaker 23 And then finally concludes by mentioning that Donald Trump's grandchildren are being raised as Orthodox Jews and that he wants to stamp out social justice.

Speaker 23 So he's been left with no choice but to vote for Donald Trump.

Speaker 23 I hate giving this guy so much attention, but there are a lot of these people out there, A.B., there are too many of these people in our lives right now. I know you have some of them in your life.

Speaker 23 You're going to see them this summer at the beach in Maryland. What do you say to them?

Speaker 26 At some super sober parties. Okay, this is the thing.
I remember this segment. I did not know about the off-camera conversation.
I remember watching it. I thought you did great.
Thank you.

Speaker 26 And I did not think he could gross me out more than he did that day. But I have a few gems from reading over.

Speaker 23 Oh, great. I'm glad you took some notes.

Speaker 26 Yeah, that he's upset. Eric's upset that Planned Parenthood and other women's groups didn't protest Hamas.

Speaker 26 So women are anti-Semitic and women's groups because they didn't protest Hamas after the war broke out. And yes, he says anti-Semites are Biden voters, not the Proud Boys.

Speaker 26 Biden betrayed, of course, Israel by our vote to abstain at the U.N. Security Council on the vote for a ceasefire.
And Biden is intentionally thwarting its war efforts.

Speaker 26 So social justice agenda basically threatens Jews, and he has no choice but to vote for Donald Trump. This guy from before he got on set with you was, of course, always going to vote for Trump.

Speaker 26 He was going to say, after raising this money, spending this money, whatever, being part of the PAC, Republicans for Haley, he was going to say for a few days that it was very hard for him and he was struggling and he needed a good option and it's not fair and he couldn't be taken for granted until he was.

Speaker 26 And this is all just a bunch of BS. I think it's important.
I'm really glad you raised it.

Speaker 26 You sound conflicted over giving him airtime, but I think it's really important for the people who are in our conversations, right, and care about this mission.

Speaker 26 that we're on, the fight that we're in, to understand what we're up against. I mean, it's really important for people in the Biden campaign to start talking about what Donald Trump would do in Gaza.

Speaker 26 And we can make passing references to, you know,

Speaker 26 to Jared's plans for condos,

Speaker 26 like you did the other day. But

Speaker 26 I think we actually need to raise this and highlight the fact that their record is something that the Biden campaign needs to discuss.

Speaker 26 And they need to, in trying to move to the center of this issue to support civilians in gaza while supporting the ratification of hamas and also in both supporting but also holding to account bibi netanyahu who's who's a not a good partner and not a good actor with all this complexity Right, with all this both and, with all this gray matter that Biden is challenged by, he needs to go to the black and white of Trump and make clear to the center of the electorate that we're trying to wake up.

Speaker 26 That, no, the Democratic Party is not a bunch of anti-Semites who are trying to break Israel with our woke social justice agenda. So I think this is an important conversation.

Speaker 26 And it's obscene that someone like Eric Levine is going to make sort of fine purchase with this. And it's really important that it be called out.

Speaker 23 I think that we probably have some listeners. I have some friends that have messaged me with much less like eye-rolly versions of the Eric Levine point.

Speaker 23 You know, people that I'm friends with in the Jeb campaign, people that are concerned about what's happening on campus, concerned about some Democrats wanting to distance from Israel.

Speaker 23 And I want to get to the campus thing next, just as

Speaker 23 a separate item. But in the context of the Biden folks, like what I say to a lot of these people is like, I just, I don't understand what more they want.

Speaker 23 I mean, from the podium, KGP, who hasn't been that great in my opinion, but like she criticized Rashida Tlaib and Elon Omar.

Speaker 23 Rashida Tlaib and Elon Omar didn't stand up for Joe Biden at the State of the Union. It was two people in his own party that didn't stand up for him because of his comments on this topic.

Speaker 23 Joe Biden's Secretary of State is Jewish, Tony Blinken, and has been, and has been, I think, pretty deftly trying to handle a very challenging situation here, you know, where I think there are legitimate concerns, both sides, but you also have to be very clear-eyed about what caused this, who it was the perpetrator, it was Hamas.

Speaker 23 I don't understand why we live in this world where Eric Levine and his ilk can blame Joe Biden and Tony Blinken for some really gross things that are happening on UCLA's campus.

Speaker 23 And yet Donald Trump is not held to account for the words and language and policies being proposed by the people wearing his hats and going to his rallies.

Speaker 23 I just, I don't understand what they're talking about. Like the protesters who are putting up anti-Semitic paper-mâché pigs on campuses, these are terrible terrible people.

Speaker 23 They're not Joe Biden voters.

Speaker 23 I know that Eric Levine's old and these people are young, so he assumes that they're Joe Biden voters and he's really scared of them. They're not Joe Biden.
They don't like Joe Biden.

Speaker 23 They like Joe Biden less than Eric Levine, probably. Okay, like these, I could go to a protest and meet a kid that is protesting Gaza and ask them what they think about Joe Biden.

Speaker 23 Then go to a Proud Boys event, go to a Groupers event on campus, go to a TPSA event, go to one of Tucker's live shows and ask the people who are there who love Donald Trump what they think about Israel.

Speaker 23 Okay? So I'm like, look, we talked about this with Jake Tapper. There's anti-Semites that are coming from all political ideologies, but like the Joe Biden base is not the worst kids on campus, right?

Speaker 23 The Donald Trump base is the isolationist America First.

Speaker 23 America First was an anti-Semitic thing, by the way, initially. The America First, that is the Donald Trump slogan.

Speaker 23 And if you think at the end of the day, the people that don't want to help Ukraine, that don't want to provide any aid, that don't want to welcome any immigrants, are going to come to the Jews' defense when they really need it, I've got a history, a couple of history books that you should read.

Speaker 23 So anyway, that's my rant about assessing the Joe Biden versus Donald Trump of it all on this topic.

Speaker 26 I appreciate every word, and I particularly loved the concept of Eric Levine

Speaker 26 being scared of young people.

Speaker 26 I know they're younger, so they might scare him. Again, this goes back to the complexity of this.
You can, Joe Biden can address

Speaker 26 the rise, the scourge of anti-Semitism, which is burgeoning and exploding in this country right now and is so enraging and so tragic

Speaker 26 without,

Speaker 26 you know, associating himself with Bibi Netanyahu's prosecution of the war. And he can,

Speaker 26 and Democrats should, call out Donald Trump, who's not talking about anti-Semitism. You know why? Because it makes the Proud Boys upset.

Speaker 26 So he's not actually getting up and saying what Eric Levine is saying, that everyone is a bunch of anti-Semites on the left.

Speaker 26 Occasionally, he'll allude to it, but he's not explicitly saying people are attacking Jews in this country because they don't like the way the leader of Israel is trying to go after Hamas in Gaza, and he's killing too many civilians.

Speaker 26 And so we have people calling Joe Biden genocide Joe on these campuses.

Speaker 26 And then Donald Trump is getting a completely free pass for the fact that he's going to do shit to fight anti-Semitism that is like coursing through this country right now.

Speaker 23 Yeah, I cannot vote for Joe Biden because I'm really upset at the people on campus who are calling Joe Biden genocide Joe because they are part of his coalition. Like it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 23 Like it is nonsensical. It was in the Atlantic article that Theo Baker wrote, where it was like one of the TAs at Stanford was talking about how Joe Biden should be assassinated.

Speaker 23 Like the far left campus activists want Joe Morgan assassinated, and they think that he's committing an ethnic cleansing, which is nonsense, obviously.

Speaker 23 And then a bunch of like rich right-wingers who like don't want to accept the fact that they're part of just a grotesque populist America first regime are like, I can't vote for Joe Biden because Joe Biden's voters are the people that want him assassinated.

Speaker 23 Like, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? It makes no sense. Go meet a student.
Go meet a student and go meet. I just like, I have homework for everybody.

Speaker 23 If you decide that you do not want to make a judgment call based on Joe Biden or Donald Trump based on their own merits, but you want to decide based on their voters and what their voters want, because you think they'll be responsive to the voters, I encourage you to go to a Joe Biden event, go to a Donald Trump event, and go to a campus rally where they're calling Joe Biden genocide Joe and actually speak to the people there.

Speaker 23 And then you can report back which types of voters you think are more in line with your views.

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Speaker 23 The campus thing really quick, A.B., and by the way, just I want to say this clearly, and I think I have on many podcasts, but you can be concerned about anti-Semitism and also be concerned about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Speaker 23 Those are two things that are not mutually exclusive, though I know that a lot of people in our discourse want to try to force us to have to choose. I would reject that choice.

Speaker 23 But I spent a lot of time this past week at USC's campus because I was doing a class there. I got to tell you, the students there were great.

Speaker 23 A couple of them participated in a release the hostages rally, which I attended with them. They did so freely and of their own volition.
There was nobody spitting at them or yelling at them.

Speaker 23 It was a nice gathering on campus. I keep being told that these campuses are just wastelands of anti-Semitism.
There were Israel flags and people spoke out.

Speaker 23 I did also speak to another student who went to a different campus who was expressing some concerns about some language that was said in their classroom about Jews.

Speaker 23 So I'm not saying that this doesn't exist. The Theo Baker story is obviously very good.

Speaker 23 So like, I think that this is a serious issue that we should be talking about and we should be trying to educate young people about without like catastrophizing and making it caricature.

Speaker 23 So anyway, that's my experience last week. But you have actual young people in your life since you have college children, which we were just discussing.

Speaker 23 So what's your take on the young folks in anti-Semitism?

Speaker 26 Well, my...

Speaker 26 children are not around any anti-Semitism.

Speaker 26 Their friends are not engaged with any of this. They're not hanging out with people who are building tents and holding protests and stuff.

Speaker 26 They are aware, because of my warning since the 8th of October, that they have to be very careful about the propaganda that other countries, our enemies, are going to use to divide us.

Speaker 26 And that, you know, as you guys were discussing the other day, it's important

Speaker 26 that people be very skeptical about the pictures they're seeing that might be from another war from five years ago.

Speaker 26 So I just want Joe Biden to lean into this both and I want him to be able to talk about suffering in Gaza, his work to champion a two-state solution, what he wants for the area next year or the year after, to be really clear about that because he's the best person to articulate that, but at the same time say that there's no place for anti-Semitism in this country now or ever.

Speaker 26 I mean, I think he can do that so well. I just think he's afraid to.
And it's the same feeling I have about Ukraine. You know, he starts the State of the Union with Ukraine.
It was a bold move.

Speaker 26 I want him to lean into this issue so badly. And Bill wrote about this today.
And Bill and I have talked about it a bunch. I just so desperately want him to call out

Speaker 26 the House Republicans and Mike Johnson right now. Be on offense.
They're on recess.

Speaker 26 You know, talk about what's going on. The lights are out in cities in Ukraine.
Like, this is going to change the world order. This is literally on a knife's edge right here.
And it's no small thing.

Speaker 26 And I want him to champion democracy, a sovereign nation being able to freely protect itself with our help from an invasion by a brutal dictator. And I feel that he should lean into that contrast.

Speaker 26 The administration seems to be

Speaker 26 completely committed to Ukraine, but, and David Fromm was right, that they have not always tactically done the right thing at the right time fast enough.

Speaker 26 to just not abandon this issue with the American people, like use the bully pulpit more.

Speaker 26 They just, they were in it right away in 22, and then a little in 23, and then they like sort of, they feel like they can't talk to us about it.

Speaker 26 And maybe it's not like a 2024 election campaign, one of their top five issues. I think it resonates with the middle and the people that we

Speaker 26 need to come out, right? The people who believe in NATO, who are afraid of it being blown up. And those voters who are often Republicans or Independents care about this.

Speaker 26 And I just think that the Biden people are too afraid of the issue rhetorically. So that's another beef of mine.

Speaker 23 Yeah. I wonder if they can deploy Obama.

Speaker 23 Obama was so good at the both and, and I had a lot of complaints about Obama at times, but like the campus thing, like who would be a better messenger for talking about, you know, hey, we can be concerned about humanitarian issues and also concerned about anti-Semitism.

Speaker 23 I mean, this was literally his 2004 convention speech, right? And it would be nice to be able to have that.

Speaker 23 You know, I don't know what he's doing in Martha's Vineyard or whatever, but maybe we could, maybe we could get folks off the sidelines. I don't know, A.B.

Speaker 23 It's just you and me and Liz Cheney that are like, maybe we should be going balls to the wall on this right now, guys. I don't know.
Maybe we should be calling everybody into battle.

Speaker 23 I will say, and we'll get to Liz next, is that Biden, we critique because we love and because we're scared of Donald Trump. Biden's been a lot more active lately.
He's had a full schedule.

Speaker 23 And Donald Trump's been golfing and in the basement. Yep.
And they've been starting to draw that contrast.

Speaker 23 And part of the reason Donald Trump's been golfing in the basement ties back to the money issues we talked about at the top.

Speaker 23 I don't know that he's got enough money to run these rallies, like honestly.

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Speaker 23 Liz Cheney was in Iowa, a Drake University. She had a big crowd.
She said there,

Speaker 23 right on message with us, A.B., our soulmate, you never could have told me.

Speaker 23 I never would have believed it 10 years ago that Liz Cheney, who I thought was too conservative for me, would be my soulmate.

Speaker 23 As frustrated as I know people get sometimes with policy disagreements, you might have, and I certainly have policy disagreements with the Biden administration.

Speaker 23 I know the nation can survive bad policy. We can't survive a president who's willing to torch the Constitution.
She committed that she would be campaigning.

Speaker 23 Shouldn't say with Joe Biden, but I'm kind of reading between the lines against Trump throughout the year.

Speaker 23 Thank God, right? I mean, like, isn't this all we're asking for from people? This is all I'm asking for.

Speaker 23 To acknowledge you have policy disagreements and just say, I'm going to campaign for it anyway because the threat's too great.

Speaker 26 She, again, I'm going to just groupie out and try to fight back the tears.

Speaker 23 It's Easter. We're resurrecting.

Speaker 26 I remember in 2022,

Speaker 26 in the summer, a friend of mine, who's a makeup artist at Fox,

Speaker 26 we were together and she said, I got to do Liz at like 6 a.m.

Speaker 26 And I said, oh my God,

Speaker 26 that's because the hearing is tomorrow. And you're going to do her hair and makeup.
And will you please tell her that? And I was overcome.

Speaker 26 I said,

Speaker 26 I need you. And I'm like holding on to my friend.
I said, I need you to tell her that she has led with her example, that what she is doing is so important. She's giving so many of us hope.

Speaker 26 I can remember, it's just like literally a crazy groupie moment in my life. And I haven't had a lot.
I was overcome.

Speaker 23 My mom.

Speaker 26 I'm sure you saw that event. I know she got a huge crowd in Iowa, which I was so excited about.
It was a gazillion people in that arena.

Speaker 26 But my mom, there was one in Hartford like last weekend or something or 10 days ago. My mom was not able to get tickets, but her, my mom's 82.

Speaker 26 Her biddy friends got tickets and went in person. And then the rest of them like live streamed it at a friend's house together.

Speaker 26 They all got together and they talked to their friends who went to the event and they were all crying in the parking lot. And this isn't just better than nothing.
This is so powerful to me.

Speaker 26 I just marvel at her for a couple of weeks after Oath and Honor, which is still on the bestseller list.

Speaker 26 And I really urge everybody to read this book or listen to it on audio, please, and tell everyone you know too. It is amazing and it's gripping and it goes really quickly.

Speaker 26 For a few weeks after that was released, Tim, she did, remember she did a little like, I don't know if I'm going to run for president.

Speaker 26 I think it was to sell more books, but she shut it down pretty quickly. And ever since then, she's made it clear, like she said, about bad policy.
We can live with bad policy.

Speaker 26 We can't can't live with Trump destroying the constitutional order. So she's been very clear about that.
And I think it's so, so

Speaker 26 energizing, not only for us, but I think it's going to break through to people in ways that, you know, we can't really even count yet. We can't really, you know, quantify yet.
I think it's amazing.

Speaker 26 And I also want to point out to our community, because this is incredible.

Speaker 26 This woman and her father are friends with Clarence Thomas and the justices of the Supreme Court.

Speaker 23 Okay.

Speaker 26 What they are doing, not only to invite threats on their lives, but to break up their inner circle, the life that they've always lived, the social set that they have been in. For her to say,

Speaker 26 I trust, she's talking about the court and the decision they made to take this on, but not in time for there to be a January 6th trial.

Speaker 26 She not only goes into this conspiracy theory that the right is trying to carry water for Trump on, that some kind of evidence was stolen and the committee like put it in a toilet somewhere.

Speaker 26 And Trump is always truthing about this.

Speaker 26 And she's explicitly telling people repeatedly, no, he has all the damn evidence. And the special counsel gave him everything from the grand jury and everything from the committee.

Speaker 26 And he knows that all of it would be so incredibly damaging for him.

Speaker 26 And he would be so fucked if all these former Trump officials that are basically the bulk of the evidence were testifying in open court. And that would be the end of him.

Speaker 26 And for her to say to the court, I trust they'll deal in a responsible and expeditious fashion with this appeal, but recognize that taking action that will result in further delay in preventing the American people from seeing the evidence in open court is itself suppression of the evidence that the American people have a right to see.

Speaker 26 And the court ought to recognize that. That's incredibly brave.
And it's no small thing. And I have to thank her every time she opens her mouth and I have to jump up and down and weep.

Speaker 26 But this is like next level to me. Really is.

Speaker 23 Same, same. The social stigma is an important element because it's what's prevented a lot of other people from doing it.
So, yeah,

Speaker 23 I didn't mean it as better or nothing. I meant it as like, this is it.
This is what we're asking for, what Liz Cheney is doing. This is what we're asking for.

Speaker 23 When people are like, what do you want from John Kelly? And what do you want from Mattis? And all the people on that list that Joe Biden hasn't called enough that he should call soon?

Speaker 23 That's what I want. Just look at her, what she's doing.
You know, you don't need to go full lib. You know, you just have to be clear-eyed about what's happening with Donald Trump.

Speaker 23 Okay, and the threat. There's one reason she's clear about the threat, and I want to leave us with this.
Some people message and say they miss hearing Charlie's voice.

Speaker 23 So, our friend Charlie and Liz were attacked on Steve Bannon, my nemesis's podcast, yesterday. And a couple of people texted me about this.

Speaker 23 So, I want to play, I want to play just a little bit of what Liz and Charlie had to say about Mike Davis and what Mike Davis said about them on Steve Bannon's podcast as a little lanyap for the end of our episode.

Speaker 30 One of the individuals

Speaker 30 has talked about how he wants to, he wants Trump to appoint him to be Attorney General for three weeks. And at the end of three weeks, he's going to leave Washington with a pardon from Trump.

Speaker 30 And he's laid out, you know, his plans for those three weeks, which include indictments, detentions.

Speaker 30 I mean, he's very, it's chilling, and it's tempting to listen to these people and think, you know, well, they're crackpots, and they are,

Speaker 26 but a crackpot with power is really dangerous.

Speaker 30 So I think it's important to take seriously and literally what they're saying.

Speaker 31 Right. You know, this guy she's talking about is a crackpot.
But, you know, you put crackpots in power. They can be dangerous, as I've said many times.

Speaker 31 You know, a clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower.

Speaker 31 I mean, do we all remember where we were when we heard that somebody was suggesting that the vice president could simply refuse to count the electoral votes?

Speaker 31 And we rolled our eyes and thought, well, that can't be serious. Well, now we know what a close-run thing it was.

Speaker 31 So, yeah, the fact that people are saying, I'm going to come in here, I'm going to override the Constitution, and then what are you going to do about it?

Speaker 27 Mike Davis joins us, by the way, Mike Davis, Charlie, a Sykes, who's a quite bright guy. I mean, he hates this, but he's a bright guy.

Speaker 27 He fails to talk about the Electoral Count Act of 1887, which gave the vice president full authority to do that.

Speaker 27 They had to change it in the middle of the night and slip it into an omnibus bill because they had to cover the tracks of the crimes that they did.

Speaker 23 Of course, Steve.

Speaker 27 As you said this morning, there has to be a special prosecutor and a massive criminal probe of this lawfare that's against everybody.

Speaker 27 I'll turn it over to you, Mike Davis, because you put the fear of God in these folks.

Speaker 32 Which I love. I would say to Liz Cheney, she needs to keep up.
I've abandoned my plot to be Trump's attorney general because there's that whole pesky Senate confirmation thing.

Speaker 32 My next plot is to serve as Trump's viceroy of D.C. And I'm going to create a very special gulag for the humorless, washed up D.C.
politician losers like Liz Cheney.

Speaker 23 Well, there you go. They've got gulag plans.
I mean, Liz Cheney just has these people's number, doesn't she? It's like, yeah, this is the problem. This is the problem.

Speaker 23 A lot of people, Eric Levins of the world, want to dismiss this. They don't want to listen to this.
They don't want to look it in the eye.

Speaker 23 But these people might be clowns, but they're dangerous fucking clowns. And we got to take it seriously.

Speaker 26 And Tim, I did not mean to suggest that you were the one saying that it was sort of better than nothing. You were, you know, you were like injected into my veins, like me.

Speaker 26 I think a lot of Democrats who we are working with tend to think like, oh, well, like, and then there's that.

Speaker 26 And they don't really understand how potent it is. You've taken care of Mike Davis, which I'm really glad.
You should do that again.

Speaker 26 You should continue to remind our readers and our listeners in the best singular way that you do. But he's terrifying.

Speaker 26 And he's really one of the only people that will say it completely out loud and use words like gulag.

Speaker 26 But it's all, you know, of a piece of the retribution agenda, which is to jail Cassidy Hutchinson and Liz Cheney and have tanks in the street and

Speaker 26 enforce a Christo-nationalist theocracy plan for the country.

Speaker 23 Yeah, and by the way, even if their gulag plan doesn't work, even if that's a joke, even if that's a troll, it's not a troll for the deportations. And these are the assholes.

Speaker 23 And maybe it won't be Mike Davis himself, but, you know, because he's just too big of a clown to get hired, but probably not. It might be Mike Davis himself.

Speaker 23 But there'll be people like Mike Davis that just don't have as big a mouth, that are just as gross as him, who are running a government-run deportation scheme.

Speaker 23 And so I think that everybody should take that very fucking seriously, very seriously.

Speaker 26 I think everyone should familiarize themselves with Project 2025.

Speaker 26 If, you know, 78% of the country is in favor of abortion medication and that's one of their plans is to have the FDA ban it. I mean, there's just a lot in there.

Speaker 26 You know, I think there's a lot that people need to familiarize themselves with.

Speaker 23 Yeah, the policy actually matters. Okay, A.B.
Stoddard, thank you. It's a wonderful Friday.
What are you doing for Easter? Are you doing a hunt? Are you doing an Easter egg hunt? No.

Speaker 23 Are you having a bunny? Are you eating a chocolate bunny?

Speaker 26 No, we've moved past that.

Speaker 26 But I have both my college seniors here who are graduating next month or in, I guess, almost next month. They're graduating in May.
And they're both home for the weekend.

Speaker 26 Our baby is over in Florence for her semester abroad. So we miss her, but it's awesome to have them home.
And we're going to eat, drink, and be merry. How about you?

Speaker 23 I don't know. I've been in L.A.
all week. I've missed my child.
And I'm just, I'm happy to be back in New Orleans.

Speaker 23 Oh, I'm actually, if you're in New Orleans, I'm moderating a panel with Rob Reiner tomorrow, actually, tomorrow afternoon for his documentary, his documentary, God and Country, which we did a podcast about.

Speaker 23 If you didn't listen to it, you can go back. But if you're in New Orleans, that's tomorrow afternoon at the

Speaker 23 Britannia French Quarter Britannia Theater. There are two Britannia theaters, not the uptown one.
And I'm doing that.

Speaker 23 And then, I don't know, me and the kiddo just, I don't know, Ferrette Street and hang out and brunch and

Speaker 23 eat chocolate bunnies. I think I'm going to eat a lot of chocolate bunnies.

Speaker 26 Yeah, make sure she has some candy.

Speaker 23 We're going to have a lot of candy.

Speaker 26 Yeah, this is the weekend for that.

Speaker 23 All right. A.B.
Stoddard, thank you so much. We'll be seeing you all.
Have a great Easter, and we will see you on Monday. Peace.

Speaker 23 Disabled last night.

Speaker 23 I saw some kind of moonlight.

Speaker 23 Ooh, I woke up in a whirlwind.

Speaker 23 Happening and dusty, watch my headspin.

Speaker 23 Spectacle will make you cry.

Speaker 23 It's a thriller and a plain ride.

Speaker 23 It's overtime and ringside.

Speaker 23 Love my eyes.

Speaker 23 Watch me down

Speaker 23 to the sand.

Speaker 23 Let me

Speaker 23 ruin the feeling.

Speaker 23 Can't stay

Speaker 23 in my eats a head.

Speaker 23 Make my head go away.

Speaker 23 I'll take a bummer bed.

Speaker 23 I think I go to nine five.

Speaker 23 Two little people be the ina round.

Speaker 23 So I just want a band talk of me.

Speaker 23 Oh, they're surprised by what we see.

Speaker 23 Like my table and my tide turn.

Speaker 23 Like on my bed, thinking for a word.

Speaker 23 Who's that awkwardly?

Speaker 23 It could be.

Speaker 23 March me down

Speaker 23 to the scarcity seas.

Speaker 23 Everything will fulfill the free.

Speaker 23 Kiss me

Speaker 23 on the Easter side

Speaker 23 everywhere.

Speaker 23 Make my

Speaker 23 The Board Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

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