Errin Haines: A Not So Super Tuesday

Speaker 1 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovny, and Carise Van Houten.

Speaker 1 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 1 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal. Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 1 Why is Adam after the Tanner family? What lengths will he go to? One thing's for sure: the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

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Speaker 4 Hello, and welcome to the Bowler Podcast. I'm Tim Miller.

Speaker 4 This morning, 1,155 days after Donald Trump incited a deadly riot on the United States Capitol in an attempt to overturn a free and fair election, he stands alone in the GOP primary en route to a third presidential nomination that he's won in a landslide with no modern precedent.

Speaker 4 His final opponent, Nikki Haley, suspended her campaign this this morning during remarks in South Carolina.

Speaker 5 I have always been a conservative Republican and always supported the Republican nominee.

Speaker 5 But on this question, as she did on so many others, Margaret Thatcher provided some good advice when she said, quote, never just follow the crowd. Always make up your own mind.

Speaker 5 It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support him. And I hope he does that.

Speaker 5 At its best, politics is about bringing people into your cause, not turning them away. And our conservative cause badly needs more people.

Speaker 5 This is now his time for choosing. I end my campaign with the same words I began it, from the book of Joshua.

Speaker 5 I direct them to all Americans, but especially to so many of the women and girls out there who put their faith in our campaign. Be strong and courageous.
Do not be afraid.

Speaker 5 Do not be discouraged, for God will be with you wherever you go.

Speaker 4 Woof. That is a depressing state of play, but I'm delighted to have my friend, my former co-guest host, Erin Haynes, to break it all down.
Erin is the editor-at-large.

Speaker 4 of the 19th News, a nonprofit newsroom reporting on gender and politics. It's the subject of a new documentary on PBS called Breaking the News.
She's also the host of the Amendment Podcast.

Speaker 4 Erin, thanks for coming on.

Speaker 3 Wow. Thanks for being here because you've been everywhere these last few hours, my friend.

Speaker 4 Well, you know, this is our moment, the former Republicans, to talk about the state of play, to shame people, to wag our finger. And I'm wagging my finger.
I'm wagging my finger.

Speaker 4 My former colleagues should feel deep shame this morning that their opposition to this guy was so limp that he won every state except Vermont and Washington, D.C.

Speaker 4 But anyway, what are your takeaways from our Super Tuesday last night or not so Super Tuesday?

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, yeah, not so Super Tuesday, right? I mean, I think that this was kind of the outcome we expected, complete with Nikki Haley bowing out after Super Tuesday.

Speaker 3 I mean, she didn't really have any campaign events scheduled after Super Tuesday, which is always a tell, right?

Speaker 3 And she said, you know, she was going to stay in it at least until Super Tuesday and for as long as she could remain competitive.

Speaker 3 Well, clearly, not competitive based on what we saw coming at her last night. And so the question really is, what does she do now, right?

Speaker 3 What is what, you know, she is somebody that went a little harder towards the end after former President Trump.

Speaker 3 Is she going to stick to that or does she end up falling in line with the rest of her kind of fallen comrades here that were on the campaign trail?

Speaker 3 And now, you know, where she finds herself on the other side of that, are we going to see her on a campaign stage with Donald Trump sometime in the near future as he continues his march to the nomination?

Speaker 4 Are we in the darkest timeline? That's your question for me, Aaron. Like, is she going to really do? I mean, I guess all these other people folded, right?

Speaker 4 I don't really know what reason there is to have any hope that she's not going to. I do think it's meaningful.
I mean, you look at last night and my main takeaway is of the presidential.

Speaker 4 I want to get, there was a lot of interesting stuff kind of down the ballot I want to talk to you about. But at the presidential level, it's like it's a pretty rump group at this point.

Speaker 4 I mean, she's getting 19% in some of these states, 17%. It was, you know, above 20 in North Carolina.
Yeah. You know, above 30 in Virginia, but it's a small group.

Speaker 4 But the people that voted for really don't like Donald Trump, if you look at the exit polls, like fervently dislike him.

Speaker 4 And so what she does could potentially nudge those people, you know, one way or the other.

Speaker 3 True, but nudge them where, right? Nudge them to the couch or nudge them to Joe Biden, who she has also kind of been hitting in these last few weeks.

Speaker 3 So, I mean, that really is kind of unclear, like, what is the role that she's planning to play? I mean, we certainly haven't seen like a Chris Christie, for example, you know, he drops out.

Speaker 3 He's, he's not endorsing Trump, but where is he? You know, he just kind of went away after that. Tim Scott, we have seen, you know, clearly, you know, angling for the beep stakes here.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I'm interested in your take on one race in particular down the ballot. Our friend Mark Robinson, North Carolina, lieutenant governor of North Carolina.

Speaker 4 You know, has just a range of conspiracies that are kind of too insane to list almost. Thinks Beyonce is demonic.
He's worried about the lizard people. Doesn't think that school shootings are real.

Speaker 4 Called David Hogg a prostitute, which is not that funny. And thinks gay people, not big on gay people, filth, cow dung, end of society type stuff over gays.
I mean, we could go down the list.

Speaker 4 Not a big fan of Jews either, Holocaust denial.

Speaker 4 I'm just asking you to maybe give me a psychological assessment of

Speaker 4 this man and of the party that is nominating him.

Speaker 3 Not my ministry either. But I mean, look to your point.
Like, we have a Republican who says, you know, know, God formed him to fight LGBTQ plus acceptance, to fight that.

Speaker 3 This is who just won the North Carolina GOP primary. He also is an opponent of abortion, which we know is on the ballot headed into November.

Speaker 3 So, I mean, you know, he is looking to challenge this Democratic Attorney General in November.

Speaker 3 North Carolina currently has a Democratic governor who has been kind of this firewall on the Republican supermajority in the state legislature and has blocked a lot of GOP priorities in North Carolina.

Speaker 3 So, I mean, this guy, not doing a psychological assessment at all, but he is a pastor. He has this kind of long history of making these anti-LGBTQ plus comments from the pulpit.

Speaker 3 And, you know, he said, you know, transgender women are going to be arrested if they use a women's bathroom.

Speaker 3 So, I mean, this is somebody who is absolutely leaning into the culture wars, but it paid off in this primary.

Speaker 3 So I don't know, you know, I don't know what that says about where North Carolina Republican voters are headed into November and what that says for maybe where the Republican Party is.

Speaker 3 I mean, this is somebody who's probably going to be on a Republican convention stage because remember, Donald Trump just crowned him Martin Luther King on steroids, whatever that means.

Speaker 3 Try putting that in AI and see what comes out. I'd love to see what that means.

Speaker 4 Yeah, Martin Luther King times two, Martin Luther King on steroids. I don't know if that was a weight.

Speaker 4 Do you think that was Donald Trump making a subtle joke about his weight or about the content of his character?

Speaker 3 Character on steroids. Maybe.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 I know what it says about the Republican Party.

Speaker 4 It's, you know, there's the Thomas Massey line that I always fall back on, which is he's a Tea Party guy in the House who said that he always thought that Republican voters were voting for the most conservative candidate in the race or the most anti-small government candidate in the race.

Speaker 4 But what it has turned out to be is that they are voting for the craziest son of a bitch in the race. And I mean, that's true in this across the country last night.

Speaker 4 I mean, in Texas, Ken Paxton gets impeached by the House Republicans and then acquitted by Senate Republicans. Sounds familiar.

Speaker 4 And then goes on a revenge tour and takes out a lot of the mainstream Republicans last night. Dinesh D'Souza's son-in-law is a 30-year-old movie marketer, if you want to call it movie marketing.

Speaker 4 It was 2000 Mules, the conspiracy movie about the 2020 election. He wins a primary last night over

Speaker 4 people that actually have real jobs.

Speaker 4 I don't know how mainstream their beliefs are, but it was a mayor and a former congressional chief of staff against a child that marketed a conspiracy movie. Like, it is consistent across the board.

Speaker 4 This is the kind of folks that the party's putting up. I mean, I wish we could spin any other way.
Okay, I want your take on what's happening on the other side.

Speaker 4 You know, there are kind of two points of view about this uncommitted vote. I look at Minnesota and I get a little alarmed.

Speaker 4 Just, I'll be honest, Joe Biden had 70% in Minnesota last night, 19 for uncommitted. Dean Phillips, it's his home state, but he gets 8%.

Speaker 4 There also are folks out there, I think rightly, Bill Scher pointed out that the Obama 2012 share of the vote is not really meaningfully different from Biden.

Speaker 4 A lot of people were uncommitted and supported protest candidates in 2012. Which side of that do you follow on?

Speaker 4 Like, this is something that Joe Biden should be really concerned about, or this is kind of a pretty standard Democratic protest vote? Yes. Yes.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 I mean, like, I think it is something that the administration is paying attention to. I mean, uncommitted at this point, I think, has something like, what, 10 delegates?

Speaker 3 I mean, is that enough for them to, you know, be uncommitted to be your nominee? No.

Speaker 3 But is it enough to say, hey, maybe we should be listening to the folks that are, frankly, in this coalition that they're going to need to win in November again?

Speaker 3 They're going to need to put those folks together.

Speaker 3 And right now, some of those folks are, you know, while they may still be planning to vote for, you know, a Biden-Harris ticket, do have some concerns.

Speaker 3 And given that voter enthusiasm is kind of where it is, you know, it's a buyer's market right now for them But in terms of like them really kind of trying to set an agenda of things that they would like to see this administration doing.

Speaker 3 So it's not really just about them hitting the campaign trail and telling them, you know, this is what we're going to do for you. I think that they.

Speaker 3 are in a position where they really do have to listen to voters this year if they want them not just turning out, but also knocking the doors, making the phone calls.

Speaker 3 I mean, that is also part of the voter enthusiasm part, right? To get people to actually show up for them because we know this election is going to be closed again.

Speaker 3 So much of it feels familiar, familiar, but this is absolutely not a status quo year.

Speaker 3 And so even though you do see kind of some of those familiar dynamics in terms of the uncommitted vote that kind of crops up every cycle, why they are uncommitted or why they are kind of being, I don't know, these kind of conscientious objectors, for lack of a better word, on some issues, that is worth paying attention to and that is worth them responding to.

Speaker 3 And I think you are starting to see some of that.

Speaker 4 I particularly want to dig in on, and, you know, this is obviously happening across the board.

Speaker 4 It's happening with young college grads um on in the democratic coalition you know the thing that really jumps out you know from the recent polls the new york times poll and again some of this is noisy we're looking at crosstabs but there's a consistent trend in crosstabs that voters of color hispanic voters and black voters in particular are going away from biden at rates higher than they did at 2020.

Speaker 4 What do you think about that? Is that noise? It's early. The choice hasn't congealed.
Is that Gaza? Is there something else happening? Is it culture war?

Speaker 4 Is that we shouldn't be getting our underwear minerated about this in March before November? Like when you're out there talking to voters, black voters, Hispanic voters, like what's your sense for it?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, again, it is kind of an all of the above. These are voters that are pragmatic, number one.
Let me just say that. I mean, that was certainly what we saw in 2020.

Speaker 3 You know, they are absolutely paying attention to what's happening in this country, absolutely care about what's happening in this democracy.

Speaker 3 And especially, you know, a lot of the black voters that I talk to, as much as it is about either one of these candidates, and certainly black voters we know overwhelmingly voted for Joe Biden and rejected Trump.

Speaker 3 And I suspect that that will be the case again. But their vote is as much about their own power as it is about trying to give somebody else power.

Speaker 3 So, you know, if that is the message that is being reinforced for them, I do think that you, again, black voters are going to do what black voters, you know, typically do in elections.

Speaker 3 Abortion being on the ballot. I mean, rights in general being on the the ballot is something that I think will continue to resonate with, you know, voters of color.
And it is early.

Speaker 3 I mean, you know, these are folks that are working, that are looking at the price of groceries right now. They're not looking necessarily at what happened coming out of Super Tuesday.

Speaker 3 So, you know, I think as we get closer, as it becomes time to vote, I do think you're going to see more chatter, more activity. And frankly, these folks showing up at the ballot box.

Speaker 4 I feel like out of my comfort zone on this one, just trying to, you know, I feel like I really do feel like a green room pundit trying to, you know, divine the will of folks that like, I just, it's not my people.

Speaker 4 You know, I'm brought in to talk about why these fucking crazy Republicans are doing what they're doing. I was paid to try to figure that out for a couple decades.

Speaker 4 So I feel comfortable analyzing their intentions. The answer could be as simply that, you know, because it is working class, right? It's non-college.

Speaker 4 black voters and Hispanic voters that mine was doing worse with. And so you just look at that and it's like, well, I don't know, maybe it's Gaza, right?

Speaker 4 Maybe it's a feeling of of you know allyship that that question maybe it's culture war stuff maybe culture war stuff is working for republicans but like also maybe the simple occam's razor answer is like people are still annoyed about grocery prices like inflation did disrupt life and people are just expressing to pollsters like that frustration again you're you're right to point out like block voters obviously going to vote for biden and big margins but the question is like how big those margins are it's going to be pretty damn important that's exactly right.

Speaker 3 It's going to be hugely important. I mean, like literally kind of the persuasion strategy right now for folks is not just in terms of voting for a candidate.

Speaker 3 You're persuading people to get off the couch, right? And not stay home on election day.

Speaker 3 And so I think that that is a real concern for people who may be looking at their circumstances, thinking, you know, what is the point?

Speaker 3 It's not that they don't care about their country, but they need to understand how their vote is going to matter this year.

Speaker 3 And while people like you and me who get paid to think about this for a living are very clear on why it is important to vote, that's not always the case for some folks who circumstances do not change no matter who the president is.

Speaker 3 On the ground, their reality, they don't feel like their reality is impacted by that, even though it is.

Speaker 4 I hear you on that. And look, I was just pulling this up.
I mean, Biden wins black, non-Hispanic voters by 84, 92 to 8. The problem is that that gives Trump a lot of room to grow, right?

Speaker 4 I mean, even if you're only winning 13% of the vote, that's still cutting the margins by five.

Speaker 4 The question I have for you on this point is, when you're talking about this, the stakes question, and you and I follow this stuff closely. I got a little nervous.

Speaker 4 I have to admit, there's a New Yorker profile.

Speaker 4 Evan Osnos is interviewing all the Biden folks, and Mike Donnellin is in there, one of Biden's closest advisors, saying this election is going to be about democracy.

Speaker 4 Democracy is going to be on the ballot. I'm for that.
I'm for that. We're going to talk about democracy a fucking shit ton on this podcast.

Speaker 4 But like, you know, for folks that are worried about grocery prices, does that spook you a little bit?

Speaker 4 Like, just thinking about the there's going to be too much of a focus on, you know, these sort of esoteric things instead of practical things that might matter? No.

Speaker 3 No, and only because, I mean, look, first of all, because I believe there's no such thing as a single-issue voter, right?

Speaker 3 So, you know, for people who are concerned about democracy, they can also be concerned about the economy. They can also be concerned about reproductive rights.

Speaker 3 They can also be concerned about gun violence. They can also be concerned about LGBTQ plus issues.
We contain multitudes as voters, right?

Speaker 3 And I think that we we need to remember that, that there can be a number of factors that contribute to a person actually getting up and going to cast their ballot.

Speaker 3 So we, you know, we should absolutely remember that.

Speaker 3 Also, like all of these things kind of fit under this umbrella of, you know, what we mean when we ask people, do you think this country is headed in the right direction? And they say no. Right.

Speaker 3 So, you know, I think it is kind of on us to kind of unpack that with them and understand, you know, what do you mean by that? You know, what do you mean Republican voter when you, when you say that?

Speaker 3 What do you mean, you know, Democratic voter in, you know, South Georgia when you say that things are going in the wrong direction for you?

Speaker 3 And how is that going to motivate what you decide to do in November? Because again, like, I feel like we focus so much on people's feelings when, again,

Speaker 3 like, okay, we've heard how you feel. How is that motivating what you were actually going to do in November?

Speaker 4 I got a lot of feelings. Big feelings.
I got a lot of feelings for me. That's why.

Speaker 4 You wrote recently about this. You wrote why aren't the presidential candidates in either party better at talking about race for the 19th?

Speaker 4 And I just am wondering, you know, if President Biden calls you tomorrow, it's like, hey, I want to have coffee.

Speaker 4 You know, I was watching Morning Joe. They're talking about the crosstabs of this New York Times poll.
And I don't know why I'm only up by 60 with black voters.

Speaker 4 The race issue got thrust into the election in 2020. I guess, just to be honest, because of George Floyd, right? Like, it got thrust into the middle of the general election.

Speaker 4 We don't know what the future holds. We don't know what issues will rise to the fore, what will happen.

Speaker 4 So, in a vacuum, kind of outside of a specific instance like that, how would you advise President Biden kind of talk to

Speaker 4 black voter demo as we look ahead to November?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I think, well, advise would be a strong word, but I would certainly point out.

Speaker 4 You don't want to be an advisor? You don't want to do some pro bono advising? You never know. You might get summoned.
You might get summoned to the White House. You never know.

Speaker 3 Let me see. Phone

Speaker 4 not ringing.

Speaker 3 But what I would point out, you know, in case he is also a listener of the bulwark when he is not watching Morning Joe,

Speaker 3 it is worth pointing out, he is somebody who,

Speaker 3 you know, has enjoyed popularity with black voters, definitely credits them for his 2020 victory.

Speaker 3 I think, you know, acknowledging, really being honest about the reality that there is some stuff that black voters wanted to see happen from this administration that didn't happen this cycle.

Speaker 3 So acknowledging that that didn't happen, saying that this is something that is still a priority to him, you know, that he does still want to try to accomplish in a second term. I think that matters.

Speaker 3 Continuing to kind of be out there talking to folks on the ground about, you know, what.

Speaker 3 he sees as his accomplishments for folks, including for black Americans. Like they need to feel like they are part of this agenda.
They need to feel, you know, like any constituency.

Speaker 3 Like this is a president who sees them, who understands, you know, what it is that they are going through and that they are a group, you know, that he is working to serve, you know, when he is governing.

Speaker 3 So State of the Union is Thursday. It is on the anniversary of Bloody Sunday.
I can't imagine that he's not going to address issues of race, particularly around voting on Thursday.

Speaker 3 But what does he say?

Speaker 3 What is that message to folks? And then immediately coming out of State of the Union, he's going to Pennsylvania and Georgia, Atlanta and Philadelphia, right?

Speaker 3 I mean, so clearly, you know, he understands that these are places and spaces where he needs to be and that these are folks that he needs to be talking to and taking on.

Speaker 3 But they need a better message around this, again, because it galvanizes folks.

Speaker 3 But what I will say on the other side, you know, you got, you know, the former president with these gold sneakers and, you know, kind of trying to establish this kinship around criminality.

Speaker 4 I was impressed by that move, you know, the mug shot. Did you get a pair? The mug shot and the sneakers.
That's what black people like, right? Mug shots and sneakers. You think that was pretty good?

Speaker 3 Because of their shared alleged criminality, I guess.

Speaker 3 That is not a message that is going to appeal to black voters and in fact may end up galvanizing some black voters to come out and vote against him.

Speaker 1 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carrise Van Houghton.

Speaker 1 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 1 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal. Malice will constantly keep you on your toes.

Speaker 1 Why is Adam after the Tanner family? What lengths will he go to? One thing's for sure: the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

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Speaker 4 I want to get to the Philly and Atlanta of it all since that's your turf.

Speaker 4 But you mentioned that the state of union is on the anniversary of Bloody Sunday when the demonstrators were beaten by officers on the Edmund Pettus Bridge.

Speaker 4 Have they previewed that they're going to talk about that? That hadn't crossed my mind.

Speaker 3 I have not seen that.

Speaker 3 But I mean, the vice president was literally in Selma on Sunday when they had the observance of the anniversary and was continuing to kind of make the case around this election being about rights and being about democracy and really our...

Speaker 3 duty and responsibility as Americans to really fight for democracy as those people did on the bridge that day. You know, making that

Speaker 3 in this moment felt hugely important.

Speaker 3 And then, also, obviously, the headline coming out of Selma was that she tied this freedom struggle to the situation in Gaza, you know, really making kind of some of the administration's strongest remarks yet around the Palestinian humanitarian crisis and calling for a ceasefire, right?

Speaker 3 I mean, I don't think that happens without pressure from, you know, activists, including, you know, black folks who are concerned about the situation there.

Speaker 4 As you said, after the State of Union, Vine's Vine's going to head down to Atlanta and Philly. You're from Atlanta.
You're in Philly now. You reported in Atlanta.
Let's do a little handicapping.

Speaker 4 Let's just do a little rank politics here for a second. Like, what is your feeling when you talk to folks on the ground in both Georgia and Pennsylvania?

Speaker 4 I don't have a ton of data to back this up. There's some public data, but Georgia is definitely feeling shakier to me than Pennsylvania as far as potentially having a little bit of a snapback element.

Speaker 4 How do you kind of assess those two states?

Speaker 3 Well, Governor Kemp is not an unpopular governor there.

Speaker 4 And Shapiro isn't. And this could be as simple as that, right? Shapiro's a Democratic governor in Pennsylvania.
Kemp's a Republican in Georgia.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and this is somebody who, you know, even Democrats remember as giving them, you know, stimulus checks in the pandemic, right? So they think about that.

Speaker 3 Maybe they didn't vote for him, but they at least, you know, don't necessarily feel like he is a bad person. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Also, you know, the January 6th of of it all and him, you know, not finding those 12,000 votes down there for the former president, that is something that also kind of resonates with a lot of people.

Speaker 3 So I think it's going to be, Georgia's going to be interesting this year.

Speaker 3 I mean, for Democrats' part, you know, you do have Democrats that were proud of what they were able to do in Georgia in 2020, you know, not only electing President Biden and Vice President Harris, but also, you know, sending two historic senators, you know, to Georgia in that runoff.

Speaker 3 But But is there the enthusiasm to kind of replicate that again in 2024?

Speaker 3 I mean, I think that's why you're seeing these folks down there repeatedly and working so much earlier to kind of shore those folks up because Georgia is not a done deal as a purple state by any means.

Speaker 3 You know, I certainly would not say that just based on what happened in 2020.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, Georgia, I think always there's this like

Speaker 4 need in the pundit class for people to try to do an either or on this question like, oh, it was it was persuasion of former Republicans in Georgia or was it Stacey Abrams and activism of turnout?

Speaker 4 And it's like both. It was both.
They needed every fucking

Speaker 3 coalition there, too.

Speaker 4 They needed every vote. I mean, you don't win a state like Georgia that went in huge margins to Mitt Romney by not winning any Mitt Romney voters.

Speaker 4 And you also don't win the state by not maximizing the base turnout.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I do think that both with Kemp and with some of the other thing with the softness of Biden's base this time, that combination worries me about Georgia.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, him going to Philadelphia and Atlanta, you know, kind of straight out of state of the union, I think that is a sign. I mean, and why not? We've got it all, right?

Speaker 3 I mean, unions in Philadelphia. You got black voters in Philly and Atlanta.
You got suburban women, young voters. All the groups that he's needing to shore up are in places like that.

Speaker 3 And so, you know, the messages that he delivers there and also, you know, the messages that he receives there, I think are going to matter and help to shape this race.

Speaker 1 Get ready for Malice, a twisted new drama starring Jack Whitehall, David DeCovney, and Carice Van Houten.

Speaker 1 Jack Whitehall plays Adam, a charming manny infiltrates the wealthy Tanner family with a hidden motive to destroy them.

Speaker 1 This edge-of-your-seat revenge thriller unravels a deliciously dark mystery in a world full of wealth, secrets, and betrayal. Malice will constantly keep you on on your toes.

Speaker 1 Why is Adam after the Tanner family? What lengths will he go to? One thing's for sure, the past never stays buried, so keep your enemies close.

Speaker 1 Watch Malice, all episodes now streaming exclusively on Prime Video.

Speaker 6 We know no one's journey is the same. That's why Delta Sky Miles lets you do it your way.

Speaker 6 From earning miles on reloads for coffee runs, shopping, and things you do every day, to connecting you to new places and experiences, a Skymiles membership fits into your lifestyle, letting you do more of what makes you, you.

Speaker 6 It's more than travel. It's the membership that flies, dines, streams, rides, and arrives with you.
Every great journey deserves a great story.

Speaker 6 And when you have a membership that's as unique as you are, there's no telling how your story will unfold. or where that journey will take you next.

Speaker 6 SkyMiles is the membership that will be here for all your big and small moments. The membership that's there for every solo adventure or family trip.

Speaker 6 The membership that comes with the power of partnership from brands you love. The membership that moves with you.
Learn more at delta.com slash skymiles.

Speaker 4 I want to go back to the vice president for a second. I think, am I right? You were the first person to interview her after she was put on the ticket with Biden?

Speaker 3 That is correct.

Speaker 4 Okay, so you go back with Kamala. I feel like I ask the same question to everyone about Kamala because it's like the only question that matters, and I want to know different people's opinions.

Speaker 4 I don't know her personally, I haven't known her personally, but I have a lot of friends who have.

Speaker 4 And, you know, she was in California, so I know a lot of people that have seen her, you know, work behind the scenes. She's not dumb, and she didn't get to the vice presidency by being dumb.

Speaker 4 I mean, she does the work, is intelligent, is passionate. People work for her like her.
And yet, her public persona, like the PR side of it, there's just this gap.

Speaker 4 And to me, I assess it as I look at her and I'm like, I think that maybe she's in her own head a little bit, like a baseball player that has the ips kind of, and she doesn't want to make a mistake.

Speaker 4 So she's in her brain a little bit when she's doing these interviews.

Speaker 4 And I know when she was giving the Hamas answer this weekend, she's talking about how, you know, Hamas has to, needs to do its thing. And I'm like,

Speaker 4 I have word salad all the time, right? But I, you know, I think that for some reason, rather than just letting it rip, she's in her head a little bit. At least that's my assessment from a distance.

Speaker 4 I'm wondering, as somebody who's like, who has interviewed her, who's had FaceTime, like, what to you explains kind of this gap between her ability and her persona?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, letting it rip. I mean, I don't know how many vice presidents I've seen do that who were not named Joe Biden, to be honest with you.
I mean, like, Mike Pence wasn't letting it rip.

Speaker 4 Dan Quayle wasn't letting it rip.

Speaker 3 You know, I think we acknowledge that we are paying more attention to this vice president because of the historic role that she is occupying. But she is still a

Speaker 3 non-traditional person in a traditional role. For sure.
Right. The vice president's job is to back up the president.

Speaker 3 So, like, this is not somebody who is going to be getting out in front of the president. This is not somebody who has equal footing with the president.

Speaker 3 This is somebody who is also the first person who looks like her to be doing this job. And so, we care a lot more about what it is that she is doing and how she is doing it.

Speaker 3 And frankly, I mean, we have to be honest about the fact that, you know, given the concerns about the president's age, like this is somebody who we care about because we may have to care about them a lot more.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 3 So there's that. Here's what I will say.

Speaker 3 You know, if we get in the Wayback Machine to 2020, I think that, you know, then vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris was absolutely helpful to this ticket in terms of raising money, in terms of galvanizing people, especially black voters, to turn out for this ticket in 2020.

Speaker 3 The voter enthusiasm part of it all, right? I think that you're going to see her doing a lot of the heavy lifting headed into this year.

Speaker 3 I mean, again, the president of the United States is four years older than he was, you know, the last time he was running.

Speaker 4 So he's a day older every day we wake up.

Speaker 3 Every day. So that means, what does that mean? That means she's hitting the campaign trail pretty hard.

Speaker 3 I mean, the same days that he's hitting Philly and Atlanta, I think she's she's doing Phoenix and then she's going to Vegas.

Speaker 3 So Arizona and Nevada, also two crucial states, like she is going to be a significant factor, I would say, in whether or not they are able to pull this off but i would be really curious to know how much credit she gets for that versus how much blame she gets if they don't win in november yeah i do have to fact check you on one thing i do think dick cheney was letting it rip maybe not in a maybe not in a great way he was letting it rip that's true

Speaker 4 maybe not in the way that we want a vice president to let it rip but he was letting it rip um the credit and blame element i mean i don't know what do you feel like the president's team is stifling her Do you think we need to see more of her?

Speaker 4 Do you think it's different situations? Do you think it's like this is just a thankless job?

Speaker 4 And because of the nature of the vice presidency and the fact that she's a black woman and all these things kind of combining make it almost impossible to have better PR outcomes? I don't know.

Speaker 4 How would you assess that? Yes, but also,

Speaker 3 you know, how are we covering her as a media, you know, to say, you know, when we hear voters saying, you know, well, where is she? What is she doing? We know where she is and what she's doing.

Speaker 3 We get a message in our inbox every day saying where she is and where she is going. We are making choices about whether or not to cover those things.

Speaker 3 If voters are saying they do not know her, what is our responsibility to be introducing her to these people vis-a-vis, you know, actually seeing her doing the job.

Speaker 3 But again, that is not something that we traditionally think about when we think about a vice president.

Speaker 3 Like, I just don't know how familiar people felt with, like I said, a Mike Pence or the, you know, 44 other white men who had the job before she she had it.

Speaker 3 How well did we feel like we knew those people?

Speaker 3 You know, questions of their likability were not really a thing.

Speaker 3 And so this kind of moving target now that we have somebody who looks different doing this job, I think that also says a lot about our political imagination as a country, as well as who she is as a politician.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think both are happening. And the vice presidency has just kind of been a wasteland for people for a while now.
I mean, Mike Pence didn't even make it to Iowa.

Speaker 4 George H.W. Bush, the last one to actually become president.
Dan Quayle tried to run for president, failed.

Speaker 4 I guess Biden then didn't become a president immediately after like H.W. did, but he he does eventually.
So, but not after getting passed over. So it's a tough role either way.

Speaker 4 I want to get your take on something else that's out there in the chattering class and politics before I want to do a little girls' basketball talk with you. Josh Barrow wrote about this.

Speaker 4 Sonia Soda Mayor had some health issues. We are, you know, now staring down the barrel of,

Speaker 4 let's just be honest, there's a chance that Donald Trump's the president again. I don't like to think about it either, but there's a chance that he's the president again.
And

Speaker 4 we saw the just horrible tragedy and timing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's death at the end of 2020.

Speaker 4 And so the question is, Should Sonia Sotomayor step aside just because the stakes are so high and give President President Biden an opportunity to ensure that he could replace her with a judge that would, you know, defend women's reproductive rights, et cetera, defend, you know, voting rights, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 4 Where do you kind of fall on that question?

Speaker 3 I think, especially as the Supreme Court is coming more into focus for Democrats and Democratic voters, right, who are understanding elections have consequences, and the Supreme Court is definitely a consequence of, you know, the 2016 election.

Speaker 3 You know, it is a question. And the Ruth Bader Ginsburg of it all is, you know, hanging over Sonia Sotomayor.

Speaker 3 Didn't see folks looking to push Clarence Thomas out when, you know, Donald Trump was on, you know, step aside so we can get a younger version of you. And it didn't happen, right?

Speaker 3 So, I mean, you know, a lot of this is, and I actually talk about this on my most recent podcast episode. A lot of this is 2024 fanfic, right? We are wishing for the Supreme Court we wish we had.

Speaker 3 We are wishing for the election that we wish we had.

Speaker 4 We are where we are, right?

Speaker 3 And so, you know, I think this is a conversation that's going to happen because, you know, it is kind of part of our collective hand-wringing as a democracy what to do about the Supreme Court, right?

Speaker 3 And so, you know, should that pressure necessarily fall on this one justice to step aside so that Joe Biden can kind of make a generational imprint on the court of his own? You know, I don't know.

Speaker 3 That's again, not for me to say. I don't get to nominate Supreme Court justices or push them into retirement.

Speaker 3 But right now, a lot of that kind of chatter is feeling like fanfic, much like, will Joe Biden throw Kamala Harris over the side? Well, not if he wants to win black women in November.

Speaker 3 So what are we talking about?

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's also tough for an 81-year-old president who's running for re-election to look at Sonia Sotomayor and be like, ooh, sorry, girl.

Speaker 4 You're a little too.

Speaker 4 It's time for you to step aside. Yeah, it's tough.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 It is fanfic, but it's also, I think there's a practical, if you're just able to kind of remove all of the personal elements, all of the identity elements, which you can't, you know, but if you were able to, you'd look at it and say, okay, well, ensuring we get a younger person in there in the court, ensuring that we're having a Supreme Court fight in the fall where votes are talking about, we're making sure that these issues are in the news, I can see how it would be a benefit to Democrats.

Speaker 4 I'm not over here pushing Sony Sotomayor out the door either, but I could see how it would,

Speaker 4 just as a practical matter, be a benefit. Yeah.
You got a big interview on Friday. You're interviewing Megan Markle.
I've got one.

Speaker 4 I just got to say, I know this is going to, any side you take on this, you're going to offend some people. I'm Team Megan.
I'm Megan and Harry. I've been with Harry from the jump.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 4 I do have to say, though, I have one complaint with them about the whole system. Okay.
You know, I think they're treated shabbily. I do not like the monarchy.
Screw all the royals. Don't care.

Speaker 4 I'm happy with all the moves they've made. But if you're going to move to California and give the double bird to the royals, do we have to call you the Duchess of Sussex still? I don't know.

Speaker 4 I feel like we should be be able to call you Megan now and Harry. I feel like I should be able to call him Harry now because you've made a choice.
So that would be my one, one beef with them.

Speaker 4 I don't know. As you've done prep on that, I guess that's probably not going to be an option for you to just call her Megs.

Speaker 3 Unfortunately, definitely not an option. I will register your complaint, though, you know,

Speaker 3 and see where that goes. I mean,

Speaker 4 something to consider.

Speaker 3 I definitely will make your concerns known. Also, R.I.P.
to your mentions as well now, because you have brought up the Duchess.

Speaker 4 Yeah, were you not Team Harry? It seemed like you were going to interrupt me there. Were you?

Speaker 3 No, no, not at all. Not at all.
I was just thinking about your mentions as you were sitting there talking about that.

Speaker 4 Okay, yeah, you got to pick a side. I feel like.
I feel like everybody's got to pick a side on this one. Speaking of things, we got to pick a side on before I lose you.

Speaker 4 I've been noticing on your social media feed a lot of Dawn Staley content. The coach of the South Carolina women's basketball team, probably the best team in the country.

Speaker 3 The undefeated. Undefeated South Carolina.

Speaker 4 Probably the best team in the country. I took my daughter to go see the ninth-ranked LSU Tigers ladies' basketball team defending national champions and Angel Reese.
Sure. We saw them on Saturday.

Speaker 4 We got Caitlin Clark out there, all-time leading scorer, making news.

Speaker 4 So,

Speaker 4 can you explain to me the Dawn? Are you and Dawn just pals or is there something else happening there? And kind of, how do you assess the tournament? Is it payback time for South Carolina?

Speaker 4 Are the Cox going to take this one? Or Caitlin Clark? How do you handicap it?

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 they certainly look like they're on their way to championship number three, but I mean,

Speaker 3 can we just have a moment for women's college basketball, though? I mean,

Speaker 3 I will tell you, I have followed this season more closely. It's almost bracket time.
I know a lot of y'all know it's time to fill out the brackets.

Speaker 3 I don't know what I'm doing for my men's bracket because I've barely watched any men's games this year. I watched.
all women's basketball this year and I was so excited. It was so, so, so good.

Speaker 3 I mean, everybody watches women's sports. Like, we just need to say it.
And I love that you got to go to that game. I got to see Don Staley and Notre Dame's team play in Paris back in November.

Speaker 3 It was incredible. I mean, like the energy around this game right now, I am just loving it.
My Don Staley fandom, she is a proud West Philadelphian with Philadelphia as my adopted city.

Speaker 3 You know, I certainly root for her. But even before that, I mean, this goes back to the dream team for me, for her.
I mean, she's just has had such an incredible career. This woman is a winner.

Speaker 3 She's a champion. and we love to see it.
And the whole team is just, they're amazing. You've wound me up now.
And I mean, March Madness cannot, the other March Madness cannot come soon enough for me.

Speaker 3 So I'm ready. I'm ready.

Speaker 4 I like Dawn Staley's vibe. I have to admit, I do like her vibe a lot.
I will, you know, I will be rooting against her, and hopefully, we'll see another surprise defeat like last year to LSU Tiger.

Speaker 3 How many of those Kim Mulkey sweaters do you have, by the way? Do you, are you rocking? Are you down with the fashion?

Speaker 4 So, my husband kind of has Kim Mulkey's haircut and i was pushing very hard for halloween for toulouse to be a tiger yeah and for my husband to be kim mulkey oh my god you know and for me to be a different lsu themed character but he he wouldn't do it so maybe next year there's always next year there's always next year for halloween so i i think that he's a better fit for her vibe but she's got a lot of great outfits i gotta say just on the merits and obviously the the women's sports element is great.

Speaker 4 I was a big agitator for paying the college athletes. Yes, hello.
And you get a lot of pushback on that and say, oh, it's been ruined. The sport's been ruined.

Speaker 4 It has been such a boon to women's sports because now you got these players that can stay. Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees, they can now stay.

Speaker 4 So you get to have a relationship, not just with the coaches, but the players. And A, they get the compensation that they deserve.
Hello, free market capitalism. Hello.

Speaker 4 But also, they get to stay around. And so you can kind of build, you know, the fandom builds.
And I just think it's been awesome for women's college basketball.

Speaker 4 And I think that this is just kind of the start.

Speaker 3 Agree. And you love to see these coaches really advocating for these young women to get those deals, right? And, you know, we're coming up on Equal Pay Day.
Like, it matters. It matters.

Speaker 4 Yeah, get that check. All right.
Aaron Haynes, we got one more segment coming. I got a special guest.

Speaker 4 The New York Times wrote about how Joe Biden super fans are underrepresented in the media, not on the 19th, but underrepresented in the media. The Joe Biden fans are.

Speaker 3 They're definitely underrepresented over here.

Speaker 4 They're underrepresented on the 19th. Okay.
Okay. It's happening everywhere.

Speaker 4 who are they? Nobody knows.

Speaker 4 You know, there are no stories about people going to diners to talk to Joe Biden super fans, but we have a Joe Biden super fan on this podcast, so we are going to elevate their voice, we are going to center them.

Speaker 4 Aaron Haynes, thank you so much for hanging out. Let's do it again soon.

Speaker 3 Let's do it again soon.

Speaker 3 Hang in there, my friend.

Speaker 4 All right, peace out, go.

Speaker 4 The New York Times says Joe Biden super fans think the rest of America has lost its mind,

Speaker 4 but that these fans occupy a lonely place in U.S. politics.
One said, I feel like I'm the only one. Well, we don't like it when people are marginalized.
You know, we want people's voices to be heard.

Speaker 4 We hear you out there, listeners, who are also Joe Biden super fans, some of you, you know, who don't feel like you're getting the attention that these MAGA freaks are.

Speaker 4 And so today, I've got a special surprise for you.

Speaker 4 We've got a guest you may know him we'll see we'll see if you recognize him we're bringing in my friend john from north jersey to talk about being a joe biden super fan john do you share the view of these voters uh you know the in the times do you feel marginalized disenfranchised by the media that your voice isn't being heard right now as a joe biden super fan i don't read the times as much you know to be honest to be honest with you the the times they got these pointy heads at the times oh there's all recession's coming this month no all recession's coming that month i'm ros douth it let me tell you about nietzy

Speaker 7 and you know i'm more of a post guy all right i'm a post guy and i read that it's all the desantis talk like you know that meet and look god love him he's one of my people but uh you know that's not my guy i look at joe Joe, our guy, old Joe, the old guy.

Speaker 7 He's been pretty good, man.

Speaker 4 He's been pretty good, especially for an Irish.

Speaker 7 yeah you were with him the whole time you were with him the primary last time around and just long time joe biden man you know well look i'm not gonna lie to you i liked a lot of some of the stuff the bernie guy was talking about i like uh you know sticking up for the workers and maybe taxing more the billionaires my grandmother she's 89 years old god love her maria francesca graziana and she i was worried sick all through covid Joe comes in, the vaccines get out,

Speaker 7 boom, COVID's gone. You know, I don't worry about my grandma moms now.
I don't know if you paid much attention to macroeconomics, Tim.

Speaker 7 Do you guys pay attention to that? I do, yeah.

Speaker 4 We had an economist on yesterday. Yeah, we do.

Speaker 7 You know, median household wealth in America of 37%.

Speaker 3 Did you know that?

Speaker 7 37%.

Speaker 7 But people don't get it through their minds, right? So I was over at Sergio's with my boys Tony and Anthony the other day. And we went in there.
We're going to get some Gaba Gul.

Speaker 7 And Tony's like, oh, the price of Gabu Gul is up 17%. and i said sure sure it is but you know you fucked it you got to understand

Speaker 7 your wages are up 20 wages are that means you are doing better and the real price of the gaba ghoul is actually going down for you but people don't realize this yeah that is good the gaba ghoul index so overall for you joe biden just a a you're giving him an a big super fan of joe biden no issues i think he's been great he's been great he's a little little old, but you know what?

Speaker 7 You know who else was old? Don Corleone. He still got it done because he was wise and he knew when to go to the mattresses.

Speaker 4 Well, I appreciate that. We had Dakota Galbin, age 28, is the New York Times.
We tried to get Dakota, wasn't available, but you know, here's what he said. I feel like I'm the only one.

Speaker 4 Does anybody care that I exist

Speaker 4 about

Speaker 4 his Joe Biden support? Dakota is a great picture of him in the Times with

Speaker 4 a Joe Biden cutout. And I just think, John, you and Dakota, you guys are out there.
We wanted to make sure you were seen. And

Speaker 4 I appreciate it.

Speaker 7 So great to be with you, Tim. Thanks.
First time on the show. First time long time.

Speaker 4 All right. Hey, for folks that didn't quite catch on to the accent, that's Jonathan V.
Last, our in-house Biden Super fan and editor. You can catch more from us on the next level every Wednesday.

Speaker 4 Me, JBL, and Sarah. We will be back tomorrow with somebody that you know and love right here on the Board Podcast.
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Speaker 4 I just went on tour.

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Speaker 4 He rang the bell.

Speaker 4 That Illy and Bloat was the horn of Imagine. He rang the bell.

Speaker 4 That Illy and Bloat

Speaker 4 The Board Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

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