Croc Wrangler: What happened while Seb was in a coma

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A hospital bedside visit, a secret recording and allegations of collusion.

I'm ABC court reporter Olivana Lothoris.

And I'm Stephen Stockwell.

Just a heads up, there's some drug references and strong language in this episode.

Welcome to the case of the crock wrangler.

He's one of the territory's biggest stars.

Flashing cameras and waiting reporters.

As Netflix star Matt Wright fronted court.

The Territory tourism operator is facing three counts of attempting to pervert the course of justice.

This was a tragic event that took the life of the crocodile egg collector.

Mr.

Wright strenuously denies any wrongdoing.

We've heard what has happened in the weeks following the Chopper crash and what people did in the aftermath is central to these charges, right, Ollie?

Well, they say there's three sides to every story, Stocky, but apparently when it comes to this story, there's plenty more sides than that.

Conflicting Accounts is an understatement.

Joined again by Matt Garrick, senior reporter at the ABCNT Newsroom.

How are you doing, Matt?

G'day, Stocky.

Ollie, how are you today?

We're going very well.

Ollie, can you give us a heads up in where we're going to go with this app?

So we're going to be going inside the ICU where Sebastian Robinson was recovering from the helicopter accident.

We're going to be talking about why fuel matters to this case, how Matt Reid has been through these proceedings and also why a juror has been discharged.

In our last episode, we told you Sebastian Robinson's story.

We recounted the evidence that he gave from his memories before the crash, from his hospital bed and after all of that.

But there's a period that he doesn't remember and a lot happened in that window.

This is the days after the crash.

The helicopter crashed in late February 2022.

And in the following days, while Sebastian Robinson is in a coma, there's this chain of events that unfolds.

At the center of this is Matt Wright.

He is charged with three counts of attempting to pervert the course of justice.

The first count relates to him allegedly lying he saw fuel in the helicopter's fuel tank.

The second count relates to allegedly asking to move hours from the crashed helicopter onto another helicopter.

And the third count relates to allegedly asking someone to destroy documents.

And only in the aftermath of this crash, we have what appears to be a flurry of activity at Sebastian Robinson's house in Darwin on a property owned by NT Kroc Wrangler, Kroc Kingpin, if you will, Mick Burns.

Who is going there and what are they looking for?

Yeah, so there's all these documents which are central to the charges and which come up in these various accounts of what happened in the days after the accident.

And as you mentioned, Sebastian Robinson back in 2022 was living in a little cottage down the back of Mick Burns's property.

And various witnesses who gave evidence in this trial have talked about visiting that cottage and collecting various things.

The first one was Jock Purcell.

He told the court he visited the cottage and collected Sebastian Robinson's pilot logbook.

He said he doesn't know why he did that and he can't remember who told him to do it.

And Jock Purcell was a fellow egg collector on the day the helicopter crashed.

He was working in a different helicopter, but he was out on that same crock egg collecting mission on that day.

That's right.

The second person who visits the home is Nolene Chellingworth.

She is the mother of Sebastian Robinson, and she tells the court she also went to the cottage on the 1st of March.

That's the day after the crash.

And she collected a maintenance release and Sebastian Robinson's diary.

And then we heard evidence from this person who's really on the periphery.

He's the caretaker of the property, Glenn Smith.

And Glenn tells the court that on March 1, 2022, the gate, the electric gate into Mick Burns' property is broken.

So he has to physically allow people access into the property.

And he remembers three people or three groups of people coming to the property that day.

He remembers Jock Purcell.

He remembers Nolene Chellingworth.

And he also remembers Matt Wright arriving at the property with another guy, he can't remember who that was, and he recalls seeing Matt Wright go into Sebastian Robinson's cottage, but he doesn't see what happens inside.

All of this might not make a lot of sense to you at the moment, and that's fine, because at the moment, we don't know why we're being told these stories.

You know, as the case unfolds, we'll learn more from the prosecution about where they're trying to go with this.

And at the moment, it does seem really unclear where they're going, but they spent a lot of time explaining this timeline, explaining this scene.

And so we wanted to make sure you kind of understood who was there and on what days to kind of put all that together.

We also heard from Sebastian Robinson's family throughout the last few days of evidence.

Ollie, you know, what happened in hospital.

Again, you know, Sebastian Robinson, when we heard from him, he doesn't remember a lot of what happened.

His memory was kind of patchy.

He was on a lot of drugs.

He'd just come out of a coma.

So we heard a lot of details about what they experienced in hospital, you know, someone kind of visiting Sebastian Robinson really soon.

What did we hear from them?

Stocky, I know that there's so many people involved in this story and it must be hard for listeners to keep up.

So just a reminder that Seb has two brothers, Jacob and Zach, and the other key player here is his mother, Nolene Chellingworth.

Nolene Chellingworth just happens to have an identical twin who's her sister, but we'll just leave that insane detail to one side.

Now, all three of these witnesses have told the court that a guy by the name of Tim Johnston, who is an employee and a friend of Matt Wright's back in 2022, came to the hospital in Brisbane on instruction from Matt Wright.

They tell the court that Mr.

Johnston comes to visit Seb a couple of days after the accident, and they say that he tells them that Matt Wright sent him.

And the evidence that the family gives to the court is that Tim Johnston asks to get access to Seb's diary and to Seb's mobile phone.

And you say, get access, Ollie, like, you know, have a look at it or is he trying to take them away?

He's trying to take them.

Right.

According to the family, Tim Johnston asks whether he can take those two items, essentially.

Okay.

And one of the brothers, Jacob, he told the court that,

you know, he wasn't thinking clearly and he gave the diary.

to Mr.

Johnston.

But the family decides we're not going to give him the mobile phone.

So according to a number of these witnesses, including Jacob, Nolene and Zach, Tim Johnston takes the diary and then when Nolene finds out that the diary is gone and is with this guy named Tim Johnston, she gets really upset and she calls Tim and says, I want the diary back, you need to bring it back now.

And according to those witnesses, he does that.

He brings the diary back to the hospital.

Right.

So he brings this diary back.

And then, what, like, a week later, Matt Wright turns up at the hospital as well.

Yeah, so a couple of days later, we have a visit from Matt Wright and this is a really critical

piece of the puzzle in the prosecution's case, remembering that charge two is related to alleged attempts by Matt Wright to convince pilot Sebastian Robinson to fabricate helicopter records.

So the version of events Sebastian Robinson's family members give to the court is that during this visit, Matt Wright comes to Sebastian Robinson's bedside and he asks Sebastian to transfer flying hours from the records of the crashed helicopter onto his own helicopter.

And if we can cast our minds back to earlier episodes when we heard about these identifiers that helicopters use, we've got crashed helicopter IDW and we've got Seb Robinson's personal helicopter, ZXZ.

And what a number of Sebastian Robinson's family members tell the court is that Matt was asking Seb if it would be all right if he would transfer a couple of hours from IDW and put them on to ZXZ.

And the defense say that that conversation never happened.

Yeah, and we have, you know, we end up with two visits from Matt Wright that we hear about from the family.

So, you know, both of them from the evidence we've heard revolve around this, like, oh, can you move hours from X to X?

Like, take them from the crashed helicopter, put them on this other helicopter.

And that is, yet, central to the second charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice is that Matt Wright has allegedly done this.

So obviously the prosecution is really keen to present as much evidence as they can to go, look, this is what has happened, help the jury see this.

And, you know, we're joined for this episode by Matt Garrick, the senior reporter at the ABC's Northern Territory newsroom.

Matt, you've been following along with this trial as well.

And, you know, we've got a pretty interesting kind of scene and cast of characters hanging out at the Royal in Brisbane.

Yeah, absolutely, Stocky.

Look, while you're getting these recollections in the very sober setting of a Supreme Courtroom, what they're recounting was a very emotional, traumatic time in this hospital room with family members coming and going.

As Ollie briefly mentioned earlier, there was not just Sebastian Robinson's mother, but her twin, identical twin sister, Stacey Carew.

So you have evidence being given from Sebastian Robinson's girlfriend saying, oh, one of them came out to try to talk to me.

I don't actually know if it was his mother or if it was the identical twin sister.

And so you have these kind of cast of characters that are really, really revolving through that room.

Yeah, and I mean, you know, you've got the family, Ollie, as you were talking before, there's Tim Johnston as well, this like employee of Matt Wright, you know, a man who's known him for a decade, described himself as a friend.

We heard evidence from him later in the week.

And I mean, his version compared to the version from the Robinson family, chalk and cheese, totally different stories coming out about his visits to the hospital.

That's right.

Tim Johnston told the court that

he was asked by not Matt Wright, but another guy by the name of Jai Tomlinson to go to the hospital and pick up a few items.

Now he was asked by the prosecution, well, what were you asked to go and get from the hospital?

And Tim Johnston told the court, I don't know.

I had no idea what the items were.

And the prosecution said, well, how can you know what you were supposed to be picking up if you weren't told what the items were?

And he said, it wasn't for me to know.

I was just told to go get some stuff from the hospital.

He tells the court that he goes to Brisbane Hospital, he goes to the ICU, he meets with Nolene, who is Sebastian Robinson's mother, and he says that Nolene Chellingworth knew what he was there to collect.

He didn't need to ask for anything specific, she just knew.

And he says that he was given a piece of paper, Sebastian Robinson's diary, and at first he tells the court he takes the mobile phone, but then later in his evidence, he clarifies actually, no, I didn't take it, but I did ask for it.

And again, the prosecution pressed Mr.

Johnston about this.

He said, well, how did you know to take the mobile phone?

And again, Tim Johnston said, it was just there.

It was presented to me and I just asked whether I should take it.

And ultimately, he tells the court that he doesn't take the phone, but he does take the piece of paper, which he later assumes to be the MR for the crashed helicopter and the diary belonging to Sebastian Robinson.

And then he says that after he leaves the hospital, he calls Matt Wright.

And he tells the court that Matt Wright is absolutely furious, ridiculously irate.

And according to Tim Johnston, Matt Wright says to him, you need to take that diary back to the hospital quick stat.

And so he does so.

He takes the diary back to the hospital, but he keeps the piece of paper and he takes that back to Darwin and gives it to Matt Wright.

And this got pretty dramatic in the courtroom because the prosecutor Jason Galachi, SC,

you know, kind of going Tim Johnston

in this conversation, basically saying, you're lying.

You know, you're perjuring yourself.

You're making this up.

You're doing this to protect your friend, Matt Wright.

Absolutely, Stocky.

You know, for this entire court trial, we've really seen

Jason Galachi be this kind of calm presence in comparison somewhat to the bombast of David Edwardson on the defense.

But during Tim Johnston's evidence, we really saw him fire up, accusing Tim Johnson of spouting nonsense and essentially asking if he was committing perjury and lying to the jury.

Tim Johnston unequivocally said he wasn't.

There was certain indiscrepancies which the court also heard about, such as he said that he'd called Matt Wright and he'd had those conversations.

Jason Galachi said there were no phone records.

records of such a conversation between that pair on the day.

Mr.

Johnson said, well, it happened and it's going to be recorded somewhere.

Where that is, the court hasn't yet been told.

Matt, it was also interesting in terms of discrepancies in evidence and inconsistencies in evidence.

Jason Galachi pointed to previous evidence that Tim Johnston had given to the court pre-trial.

This is back in late July, before the trial had started.

And he told the court, You gave evidence, didn't you?

At that time.

And Tim Johnston agreed he had.

And he read from a transcript of the evidence that that Tim Johnston had given and in that account that Tim Johnston gave he said that he was asked to pick up specific items including the MR, the diary and the mobile phone and when he was confronted with that discrepancy in his evidence by the prosecutor Jason Galachi Tim Johnston said a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and I've had a lot of recollections.

But what that meant wasn't really explained.

He was also very, as the court heard, very close with Matt Wright.

He was a close workmate of Matt's for many years.

And when he visited the hospital that day, he was very emotional.

We heard when he spoke with Sebastian's girlfriend, he was in tears.

He was very upset.

So to go very quickly from that switch to...

By the way, I need to take this document and how about that phone, you know, this is what we've seen unfurl in the court over the last couple of days.

Yeah, and we heard as well from Tim Johnston these kind of offers of support for Sebastian Robinson's family as well.

You know, there was, you know, through his evidence and also I think in other evidence that we heard, this offer of $10,000 that Matt Wright had made to the family to help support them through this time.

We saw messages between Tim Johnston and Nolene Chellingworth, Sebastian Robinson's mum, offering, you know, a car to try and help source a car to help support them through that time.

And so this was a kind of another version of this as well, of Matt Wright trying to help support Sebastian Robinson through this time.

And the defense kind of

telling this story of the Robinson family manufacturing these kind of allegations and these claims against Matt Wright because they were worried their son was going to get blamed for the helicopter crash and the death of Chris Wilson.

Yeah, this really came up firstly in Zachary Chellingworth's evidence when he was being cross-examined by Matt Wright's lawyer, David Edwardson, KC.

And

David Edwardson at one point sort of asked, you know, if your brother was being pressured to change these flight records, why didn't you step in more forcefully to try to stop this from happening?

And the answer that Zachary Chellingworth gave was just, you know, it was a really tense, emotional moment in the hospital room.

I couldn't gather myself and really say what I wanted to say or do what I wanted to do.

And David Edwardson came back at him and said, it was tense and emotional because Matt Wright was there to check on the welfare of your brother.

And Zachary Chillingworth said, no, that's not what happened.

And David Edwardson suggested to the witness that what in fact was going on was that the two brothers and the mother had put their heads together, colluded and manufactured these allegations against Matt Wright to sort of point the finger in a different direction out of fear that Sebastian Robinson was really going to be held accountable for this accident because they knew that investigators were looking into this and they knew that fuel exhaustion was something that was being investigated.

In the same cross-examination of Zachary Chellingworth, we also saw Mr.

Edwardson probe further into Sebastian Robinson's previous cocaine use.

Zachary Chellingworth was asked if he ever saw his brother take cocaine, if he knew he was a user of cocaine.

He conceded yes, he had, and when pressed on where he had seen him take it, he said, Oh, look, I saw him snort it at my Bucks party on Matt Wright's boat, Cat 5.

That was such an amazing exchange because David Edwardson asked the witness, and where did you see your brother do cocaine?

And Zach Chillingworth said, where?

And David Edwardson said, yes, where?

And he goes again, he says, where did I see my brother use cocaine?

And David Edwardson goes, yes, where?

And then he goes, on Matt Wright's boat.

And it was just sort of this moment in the, it was definitely a moment in the courtroom.

Absolutely.

And

for some of the listeners who may not know the term Cat 5, which was the name of Matt Wright's boat,

the term is Category 5 Cyclone, which is essentially the strongest level of a cyclone you can get in tropical Australia.

So

a whomper of a boat.

That is a, yeah, when I saw the name of the boat, I was like, that is such a territory name for a boat.

And maybe also, sorry to stock you, but...

We then after that heard Zachary Chillingworth struggle to remember the anniversary of his actual wedding.

So I'm not sure what his wife would think about that.

But anyway, at least he remembers the Bucks party.

Yeah, maybe it was just such a good Bucks party that the rest of it sort of fades away into the background.

I mean, it's interesting.

You know, we've heard previously that Matt Wright

has a zero tolerance on drugs.

And, you know, he's obviously been talked about a lot through this trial.

You know, he's been in the room.

He's sitting

in the dock each day as this trial is continuing.

I mean, Ollie, how's he been?

I mean, you know, he's hearing about his employees basically doing drugs on his yacht.

He's hearing about these messages, all of this dirty laundry being aired.

Yeah, how's he been in the room?

Yeah, I think there's been, like everybody in the room, there's been a whole range of emotions.

We've seen moments where Matt Wright has become very emotional.

Certainly when witnesses have been recounting the day of the accident, we have definitely seen Matt Wright get quite upset in the box.

We've also seen a few giggles, snorting cocaine out of his ass, got a bit of a giggle.

And you know, we've also seen him during particular parts of evidence writing some notes and passing them to his lawyers, which of course he's allowed to do.

To me, it also looked like there was a bit of a glare there from Matt to Zach Chellingworth after it got mentioned that his boat had been used for that Bucks party in such a way.

Yeah, I imagine there's probably a few glares going around that courtroom, if I'm completely honest, through a trial like this.

Ollie, something that we flagged at the start of the episode, you know, it's been

in some ways quite a dramatic week.

You know, we have 14 jurors that have been selected for this trial.

They're all instructed not to read the media, not to engage in anything like that.

And earlier this week, one of them was actually discharged.

Yes, dramatic pause, drum roll.

They got the flu.

Yeah, sorry about that.

Just wanted to build that up.

Jura being discharged is quite a moment, but yeah, got sick, did the right thing, and decided that they wouldn't be a part of it anymore.

Offered to wear a mask, but I was told, no, no, just better off that

you don't come in.

And there are two reserve jurors, so one of the reserve jurors has stepped up.

So we have one spare juror up our sleeve remaining.

Matt, as we near the end of this episode, what has stuck with you over the course of the last week or so of this trial?

Look, Stocky, I think the thing that really leapt out to me over the last week was hearing some of the evidence from Sebastian Robinson's family and loved ones about how close he really was to losing his life in that crash on the 28th of February 2022.

To the point that they were taken into a room at the Royal Darwin Hospital and essentially told he wouldn't survive the night.

You know, there was tears around the courtroom that day.

Nolene Chellingworth herself was really holding back strong emotions to be able to recount that awful moment where she thought her son was lost.

And then later, you know, the realization that he was going to be a paraplegic, she gave evidence that

she had a quadriplegic brother who she'd been caring for for many years and now a paraplegic son.

And she asked God

why he chose or why they chose to leave her with that paraplegic son and she said well it's because they knew that I could take care of my son in that condition so it's it's very serious traumatic kind of recountings that we've heard over this week

and it's important to remember that you know you know a man has lost his life because of this helicopter crash Chris Chris Wilson you know Sebastian Robinson yeah in a wheelchair now paraplegic has a traumatic brain injury as well so that's something that he will live with throughout the rest of this.

You know, the helicopter crash, while central to the charges against Matt Wright, isn't the reason Matt Wright has been charged.

There's no suggestion that he is anyway responsible for that crash.

What this trial is kind of centered around is his actions following the accident.

Out of what the prosecution says is his alleged fear that he would be blamed for that in some way.

Ollie, we spent a lot of this episode talking through, I guess, the second of the charges that Matt Wright is facing in this instance.

That is, the allegation that he asked Sebastian Robinson to move ours onto his helicopter from the crashed helicopter.

And now we're heading into that third charge, the allegation that he asked another person to destroy, basically, evidence in the investigation to the helicopter crash.

Yeah, so this charge really rests on these secret recordings that were taken from inside Matt Wright's Palm Beach home in Queensland.

And the jury has been provided with transcripts of those recordings.

But the judge was quite clear to the jury that the transcripts aren't the evidence.

The recordings are the evidence.

So they were told, you can use the transcripts as an aid, but it's really about what you can hear.

And we did hear a snippet of those recordings played.

The quality is undoubtedly not great.

And so it's going to be this process of going through those recordings and trying to make out what

Mr.

Wright is alleged to have said in those recordings and what he's alleged to have been talking about.

And one of the people who you can hear him speaking to in those recordings is another one of the witnesses that is going to be giving evidence over the next part of the trial.

Yeah, so in our next episode, we'll be talking, I imagine, it hasn't happened yet, but I imagine we'll be talking a lot about what happens in those recordings and what comes up in some of them.

Ollie, I'd love to get to some questions as well.

Our audience has been, you know, continues to bombard the the KSOV inbox with questions and curiosity.

If you'd like to get in touch, the ksov at abc.net.au is our email.

We take general feedback, questions, difficult, easy, all sorts.

We welcome them all.

Before we actually get to the audience questions, though, I mean, this is a question we have had a lot from the audience, which is what is attempting to pervert the course of justice?

The jury has been sending in questions, not to us, but to the judge, with a note passed over saying, excuse me, could you please, you know, basically give us a definition of what is attempting to pervert the course of justice?

And Justice Blow answered that question for him yesterday, Ollie.

Yeah, it was a really interesting moment.

There was a note handed up and the jury said, can we please get a definition of attempting to pervert the course of justice?

So the judge basically said, I can't provide a definition per se, but he reiterated the elements of that charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice and just, again, gave a sort of nutshell overview of what the allegations for each of those three charges are.

So he said that in the first charge it's alleged that Matt Wright lied to police about looking in the fuel tank and seeing half a tank of fuel in the crashed helicopter.

In the second charge it's alleged that Matt Wright went to the hospital and tried to get Sebastian Robinson to put false entries into the helicopter record of his helicopter.

And thirdly it's alleged that in a conversation with a friend which again is that conversation that's part of those secret recordings it's alleged that Matt Wright tried to get his friend to destroy the original maintenance document of IDW by saying words to the effect of, just torch it.

And he said he wouldn't go any further into the exact words.

And again, that's something that we'll be hearing more evidence about.

Yeah, and you know, kind of pointing out that the crime gunner has sort of three ingredients.

Like the person's got to do something, that thing has to have a tendency to pervert the course of justice.

And the accused has to intend that doing that thing will have that result.

It's kind of like the little framework that they'll build around it.

So very nice of Justice Blow to participate in the Q ⁇ A section of the case of, which is, you know, nice to have the court involved and the justice system involved in such a way.

We do have some questions from our audience as well.

One here from Melissa.

Melissa says, hi, Ollie and Stocky.

Thank you so much for bringing another sensational podcast to our ears.

A question regarding the recording played to the jury from Sebastian's uncle's phone, recorded from the hospital room.

I thought recordings that are made without the consent of people being recorded was inadmissible in court evidence.

Is that just a Hollywood fallacy?

I don't know about a Hollywood fallacy, but of course any evidence that gets admitted into a trial has to sort of meet a certain bar or a certain standard.

And there are processes that need to be followed in order for evidence to be considered admissible in court.

And these things differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

So in various different states and territories, there are different rules about how you can record people, when you can record people.

Of course, Matt Wright's home was bugged.

And And again, police and investigators would have had to follow certain rules and regulations about bugging his home.

So yeah,

different rules in different places.

Yeah, but in this instance, Melissa, it's allowed because if it wasn't allowed, the defense would have absolutely made sure that this wasn't being played to the jury.

So yeah, in this instance, the court has ruled, yep, these ones are fine.

So we can have them in there.

Another one here, Ollie, from Abby.

Abby says, hi team, loving the new podcast format, listening religiously from Burlington, Vermont, USA.

A couple of questions about this case and Sebastian Robinson's testimony.

First, can we get t-shirts or bumper stickers that say, language warning, get fucked, get vaccinated, and fly around helicopter?

Abby, I know people who know people at ABC Commercial, and that conversation will start.

Abby's more important question, though, is, what is the goal or point of all this attack on Seb's character?

You've said so clearly that this case isn't litigating the cause of the crash, only Matt Wright's behavior after the fact.

So, why does it matter if Seb ever gave a blowjob in exchange for some Coke?

Is it all an attempt to damage his character and make him seem like an unreliable witness?

Well, firstly, just to clarify, Sebastian Robinson did not give anyone a blowjob to get cocaine.

But in relation to the question, the defence has definitely, you know, made a few attacks on Sebastian Robinson's reliability, and that has been

pointing to inconsistencies in evidence he gave.

The fuel question was a big one for Sebastian Robinson.

You know, he told the court during his evidence during the trial that he didn't have any memory of the day.

He couldn't remember filling up the fuel tank.

But then David Edwardson said, but in your interview with police after the accident, you said that the chopper definitely didn't run out of fuel.

So

why the discrepancy?

So there have been these questions asked of Sebastian Robinson.

And also in terms of the cocaine specifically,

there is a relevancy point in the sense that there was traces of cocaine found in Mr.

Robinson's blood on the day of the accident.

Another question here from Tamzon in London.

Tamson writes, hiya.

So Matt Wright couldn't fly his own choppers into Arnhem Land because he wasn't vaccinated, but he did fly to the crash site of the day of the crash.

Presumably that was in Arnhem Land too.

Has there been any consequence from this?

The court hasn't heard about any consequence from that action.

Yes, the crash site was in Arnhem Land and we have heard that you weren't allowed to travel there if you weren't vaccinated.

Of course, I think it's important to point out that he didn't conduct the egg collecting because he wasn't vaccinated.

And of course, the trip out to Arnaland after the accident was in some obviously extraordinary circumstances.

He was going out there because someone had died.

So just a very different set of circumstances between going out there for work and going out there because of the accident.

With the crocodile egg collection missions as well, you might have to at some points touch down in or near a remote Aboriginal community or as they did at Mount Borodal Station.

So there's places where you would come across people as opposed to the crash site, which was a very isolated corner of West Arnhem Land.

Something else that we've heard

a bit of questioning about over the last few days

was the prosecution asking almost every single person that was with Sebastian Robinson in hospital if they had to show their vaccination certificates as they went into the hospital.

A lot of them saying, I think almost all of them saying, yeah, there's a guy at the door that we had to show that to.

So that was interesting, keeping in mind that Matt Wright attended that hospital as well.

So it'd be interesting to see how that develops over the course of this trial too.

If you have any questions as well, please get in touch with the case of at abc.net.au.

And if you are kind of struggling to figure out who all these people are, what some of the timelines of all this are, like it is, it is tricky.

I mean, you know, I can recommend going back and listening to all the previous episodes of the case of and catching up that way.

But ABC News has also made this incredible article that details all the people and the timelines.

So if you head to the ABC News website, you'll be able to find all of that right now.

Speaking of just wonderful ABC products, there's also the ABC Listen app.

It is so warm and comforting when plugged into your ears.

So you can listen to the case of and many other wonderful ABC products on there.

Ollie, we'll be back next week.

Where are we going next?

Next, we're going to be delving into these covert recordings taken from inside Matt Wright's home.

What was said, who was he talking to, and what about?

The case of the Kroc Wrangler is produced by ABC Audio Studios and ABC News.

It's presented by me, Olivana Lothuris, Matt Garrick, and Stephen Stockwell.

Our executive producer is Claire Rawlinson, and a big thank you to senior lawyer Jasmine Sims, our legal queen, for her legal advice, and to the Northern Territory Newsroom and Audio Studios manager Eric George.

This episode was produced on the land of the Larakia and the Wuruntree people.

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