Allie Beth Stuckey on The Charlie Kirk Revival

Everybody, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

My name is Andrew Colvet, the executive producer of this show, and I am joined by a dear friend of Charlie's.

And I just tweeted this, and it couldn't be more true.

Allie Beth Stuckey, you were

genuinely in a very, very small group of people where throughout all the years of working with Charlie, if your name came up, he would just instantly say, she's the best.

Love Allie.

Wow.

You truly did earn Charlie's respect.

And I think it's because of your faith, because you are

such a stalwart for defending it, for defending traditional values, for saying hard truths.

And so, it's a real honor to have you here.

And I saw you on Sunday.

You were at the memorial, so you went home and then you came back.

So,

really, really amazing of you to do that.

It's such an honor to be here.

And I've seen a lot of people say, my friends and people online say, Okay, I knew that Charlie was a Christian, but I didn't know how much he talked about Christ.

I didn't know how much he shared the gospel.

I didn't know how much he cared about theology.

And it was just really sweet to be able to say, I did.

Like, I did know that.

I saw that up close.

We went not only to a couple campuses together, but to churches together.

Every time we talk, it would,

every time we talked, it would be about theology.

It would be about weak pastors, what the church needs to do.

And I'm like, I did, I did see that.

I got to see it up close and personal, how much he cared about contending for the faith.

And it really was a privilege.

Yeah, well, and you are sort of the perfect person to have on because so many people are talking about this memorial.

Yeah.

They saw the leaders of the free world talking about Jesus.

They saw Don Jr.

talking about Jesus.

I know.

Which, by the way, we were backstage and we were all kind of ribbing and we're like, Don, did you just, did you just preach the gospel, Don Jr.?

A little bit.

A little bit.

And you could see that he has been changed by this and realizes.

the importance of it in a whole new way.

I mean, Don was incredibly close to Charlie.

Yeah.

So, I mean, the question is, you know, how big and how deep and how wide can this revival go?

Because I do believe that we are in revival times.

Yeah.

And the question is, what happens next?

Something that my audience has heard me say a lot, and I love to start out the week reminding people of this, that God's eternal plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch.

That he's never looking down, wondering what's happening.

He's never confused.

He's never thrown off.

He's never taken aback.

He's never surprised.

He's not distant.

He's not busy, but he is suspended in the eternal now.

So God is not within the context of linear time like we are.

So God is using actively all things throughout eternity for the good of those who love him and for his own glory.

And clearly, God had a plan far before Charlie was tragically assassinated.

He was already working out all things for the good of those who love him.

In fact, I think about the story of Joseph, whose brothers were driven to jealousy and threw him in a pit and sold him into slavery.

And then there was a caravan coming from Egypt and the brothers sold Joseph into slavery.

And then, of course, Joseph goes on to be a ruler of Egypt because of his faithfulness.

He ends up helping save his own people, his own family from famine because of that position of power.

But you think before Joseph was thrown into the pit, before he was sold into slavery, that caravan going to Egypt was already on its way.

Like God already had the plan before that.

And obviously, I hate that the assassination of our friend was any kind of impetus for anything.

I would have loved revival without that.

And yet, what we read about God is that he stops at nothing to bring glory to himself and to bring his sheep to himself.

And we were talking off air, is this a revival?

I've never said in my life, yes, I think so, but I do think so.

Time will tell.

We can talk about the fruits of a true revival, but I see it and I feel it.

I felt it at the memorial.

The Holy Spirit was there.

I felt it.

Man,

I think it was Tucker Carlson, of all people.

I saw him backstage and I was like, What are you going to talk about?

He goes, I'm going to talk about Jesus.

Repentance.

Yeah.

And

I was like, You're going to talk about Jesus.

He's like, Oh, yeah, baby.

He's like, It came to me in the shower.

And I was like, Okay, great.

And he gets up on stage.

He's like, You can feel the Holy Spirit humming like a tuning fork in here.

And he's

so spot on because as soon as you walked into

the room, it was like the hairs on my arm stood up and I got the chills.

And I walked in as a worship song was playing and every hand was like raised in the air.

70,000 people.

There was 277,000 devices that our team Geo tracked in the vicinity.

That was a sea of humanity to get into that place.

And all of them, I'm so sure, were like moved in the spirit that morning.

So even if they couldn't get in, I was hearing people were watching it on their phones and they were singing out on the streets.

It was, it was, and there wasn't any fighting, there wasn't any shoving.

Yeah.

Nothing.

The moment for me that I just lost it.

Well, first of all, I walk in and I'm like, this is amazing.

Oh, my goodness.

And then I see some of my favorite people that I typically only get to see online.

I'm sitting next to Matt Walsh.

Obviously, there's the cabinet right in front of me.

And then it just hits me why I'm there.

I'm like, well, this is amazing.

But it also, also, gosh, like my heart just broke again about why we're there.

But we were being Latin worship, Brandon Lake, and he's singing and then he stops and the music keeps playing.

And spontaneously, I don't think that this was orchestrated in any way.

Everyone just starts slowly lifting up their signs.

And as people out there probably know, one says, send me, I'll go.

The other red sign says, well done, good and faithful servant.

And I look back on the stage, Brandon Lake is just sobbing.

I'm sobbing.

And it was just one of those moments that I can only recall feeling a few times in my life where I felt tangibly and physically the Holy Spirit in that room.

And that was one of the most beautiful moments I've ever been in, a foretaste of heaven.

If you had told me that I get to worship and listen to the gospel preached, you know, not right next to Donald Trump, but alongside Donald Trump and all of these other people, I would have said, well, that's going to happen on the other side of eternity, not this one.

But Charlie made that happen here.

Yeah.

And I'm going to play this clip because I think it's so powerful.

Get Cut 50 ready.

This was this moment where I think you know, when the band stops their instruments and they just let the audience hold the tune and sing, yes.

And you could see

this huge, I mean, tens and tens of thousands of people worshiping with their hands in the air.

It was so powerful.

Play cut 50.

I know it's not my fault,

nothing else.

Set for me,

set for my

singing my

love.

One more time.

So I'll throw my hand,

praise you again.

all that I have is to come.

So good.

Chills again.

Chills again, me too.

I mean, what a foretaste of heaven.

Absolutely amazing.

And I just think about all the people over the past few years who have criticized conservative, Trump-supporting Christians for being too loud, for being too political, for being too divisive.

And they claimed that in order to win people to Christ, you had to compromise and you had to be quiet.

You had to be what they called a soft presence.

But in the end, revival was sparked by those who relentlessly pursued and represented the truth at any cost.

That's well said about Charlie, actually.

And, you know, I'm going to just go for it here.

There was a verse that has been sent to me more than any other.

And I tweeted it this morning.

And it's from Hebrews 12, 1 through 4.

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up.

And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us.

We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith.

Because of the joy awaiting him, he endured the cross, disregarding its shame.

Now he is seated in the place of honor beside God's throne.

Think of all the hostility he endured from sinful people.

Then you won't become weary and give up after all you have not yet given your lives in your struggle against sin Allie you put out a tweet and an Instagram story I believe asking a really great question I wish I would have thought about it I might do the same I might steal it because it's a beautiful thing to just reflect on

who out there became Christians because of Charlie either because of his life or in because of his death and they just discovered I would love to know more stories like that.

Yeah.

So you did that and what happened?

I posted this on Instagram.

My Instagram audience is very engaged, but when I say email me, a lot of times people just don't want to go through that barrier.

So I just said, email this address if God used Charlie's voice to bring you to Christ.

And I got probably a hundred emails, and they're still coming in from people saying this is how God used Charlie's words.

But one email really stuck out to me, and it was from a woman named Jacqueline who said that she had been engaged in the new age and tarot cards and all kinds of witchcraft.

But I won't give it away because we'll hear more from her and her story.

God used Charlie in a really big way in her life to bring her to Christ.

And so, yeah, really amazing.

Well, it's funny.

We have her, I believe.

Jacqueline, are you there?

Hi.

Good morning.

There she is.

Hey, Jacqueline.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for

having me.

Yes.

Well, thank you for taking the time to join us.

I would love to hear from you before we get to you being introduced to Charlie's content.

Can you tell us what your life was like before Christ?

You told us a little bit about being engaged in the New Age, but what did that look like?

Yeah, I was definitely engaged in a lot of New Age practices.

I attended monthly moon circles.

I practiced a lot with crystals.

And I would, you know, read my oracle cards in the morning before starting my day.

I had a number of tarot readings done,

trying

to divinate answers and

future possibilities.

And I've had crystal healing done.

So yeah, I was definitely practicing a lot of that.

During that time,

what would you say that you were searching for?

I think I was always searching for something larger than myself.

I wouldn't say that I didn't ever believe in God, like didn't like I always believed in God.

I didn't push that thought away, but I guess I was looking for a way to come closer to God.

And I thought that these practices would bring me there,

but that wasn't really the case.

Yeah.

At what point did you realize that engaging in that kind of witchcraft was not leading you to the happy transcendent place that you were trying to go to?

I think it did take some time.

I think my process has probably been over about three years or so

when I really started questioning things.

And there were a lot of different events in my life that

led me to that, that I just kind of felt empty inside doing these practices.

And I think a lot with new age, they're always kind of trying to tell you to do more shadow work to dig deeper to you know get rid of that darkness but in turn you're kind of feeding that darkness and that's all you're ever focusing on so it almost kind of becomes like a black hole that just sucks you into it wow

And were you, did you consider yourself politically progressive at this time, or did you not really think about politics?

I definitely wouldn't consider myself progressive necessarily at that time.

COVID really changed a lot of my opinions on politics.

I would say that pre-COVID, I didn't really pay attention a whole lot to politics.

But COVID really opened my eyes to

a lot of issues.

And so I was definitely turning more conservative at that time, but I wouldn't have labeled myself either way.

I kind kind of was just in a neutral place.

Right.

And it was your husband who started watching Charlie Kirk's videos that

let you know about Charlie's content.

And what you told me is that you were very off-put by Charlie at first.

Is that right?

Definitely.

I think my husband watched a lot of the prove me wrong videos and a lot of the college campus videos.

And it was definitely off-putting because it

was kind of pointing out all of the things that I

wasn't necessarily thinking deeper about and I was kind of just taking a surface perspective on it and I think a lot of the conversations that Charlie has you have to dig deeper with and there's a lot of nuances and so

It's better in a long form rather than, you know, just little snippets that you see.

Yes.

Okay.

So, do you remember anything specific from Charlie that you were like, okay, I've never heard that before, or that kind of offends me, that rubs me the wrong way?

I'd have to say that the main issue that really started to change my thought pattern was the issues surrounding abortion.

I'd always been really pro-choice.

I was quite liberal in my, you know, my early 20s.

And then I had a son and

I was already kind of changing my views on it.

But just hearing,

you know, the passion behind it and

really

kind of like the logical sequence of it all, like, you know, how,

how can we do that?

It's

yeah, that, that's, that issue right there was definitely the one that really started to make me think deeper.

Yeah, gosh, he was so good at defending life.

One of the very best.

I mean, yeah.

Yeah.

And I, I, by the way, I just love that at first, Jacqueline, you, you were repelled by it, which I think is super normal, by the way, because, you know, I personally believe Charlie was a modern prophet in the biblical sense.

I'm not talking about fortune telling or predicting the future in the sense that, you know, Jesus said the prophets, that's why they killed them because he called a nation to repent.

So he speaks this truth bluntly without pulling any punches.

That was Charlie's way.

It was completely unvarnished truth.

And it strikes when you're not exposed to the truth and you don't have ears to hear it.

You're confronted by it.

And I think the flesh wants to fight it.

They wants to push back and say, you're wrong.

This guy's awful.

And we've all done that.

Yes.

But then when, and then all of a sudden your heart starts opening up and the Holy Spirit starts working on you.

It's like, then you have eyes to see, then you have ears to hear.

And I just can't tell you how many people have that same exact experience with Charlie.

But I also think it's why he's so misunderstood by the left.

They, they just, their hearts are hardened to hearing those truths that come from scripture.

Yeah, but you didn't allow your heart to stay hardened, or God didn't.

God softened your heart.

So, can you tell us about that?

The more that God was working in you, the more you watched Charlie's content, just tell us about that change in your life.

Yeah, so as I said before, it definitely took time.

And I mean,

I'm still learning.

I'm still exploring.

I feel, you know, really new on this journey.

It's really only been about a year or so that I've kind of solidified that belief in myself.

And I've just kind of had a hunger to learn more and, you know, to open my Bible and read the Bible and read the word.

And

yeah, it really was just kind of like a number of events that happened in which

I get tired of holding all of that burden.

And I really needed to release it over to something greater than myself.

And that's really, you know, that's really where Jesus came into my life.

Wow.

And

now you wrote to me, you are reading your Bible.

You're attending church.

You are now a gospel-believing Christian.

No more tarot cards.

No more witchcraft.

That's amazing.

No, all of that, as soon as I decided it all went into the garbage, I threw every, I went through my house and threw absolutely everything away and just didn't really want to have any part to do with it.

Well, praise God.

Thank you so much, Jaclyn, just for reaching out to me, for your boldness, for your testimony to the Lord's power, but also to Charlie's influence.

I really appreciate you.

God bless you and your family, especially in your growth and your Christian walk.

I appreciate you.

Thank you so much.

I feel so honored to be on here.

Praise God.

Thank you.

Well,

I, for one, am very hopeful that Jacqueline's story will be multiplied by the millions.

And I believe it.

I mean, we had over 100 million that we know of.

And that's just on the live streams for Charlie's Memorial Day.

That's insane.

I know.

And that's not counting.

Broadcasts, clips, all that thing.

So just multiply that by.

Who knows?

Who knows?

I'm going to let you introduce our next guest who's in studio with us.

Yes, Pastor Costihan.

I knew when I was co-hosting this with Andrew that I wanted to bring you in because you're local, you're a pastor, and I want you to introduce yourself a little bit more and then we're going to talk about revival and what it means to be a Christian.

Yeah, so I get the privilege of pastoring, not far from here actually, it's about a 12-minute drive over to the studio, grateful.

And I've been pastoring a church called Shepherd's House for just over three years.

God's done some pretty amazing things here in the desert and it's thriving.

And then I get the privilege of leading a ministry called For the Gospel.

It's an online resource ministry, and our tagline is sound doctrine for everyday people.

So, thinking of your guest that you just had on, I mean, I love bringing the cookies down from the top shelf and explaining truth, theology, and helping people grow in their faith.

That's one thing that you and Charlie had in common: taking the cookies down from the top shelf, so making things really simple.

Charlie boiled things down in the most in the simplest terms.

I mean, he had a brilliant intellect, and he

I mean, he could have used, you know, $100 words when, you know, a dollar would work or five cents.

Yeah.

But he chose not to because he was so linked to the people and the grassroots and the musket.

And he just had a way of distilling everything in just these blunt terms.

And it was always so right on.

I have a...

Is it okay if I

just have

outside looking in?

How has everything that you've seen in the last

13 days,

how has it impacted you and what have you seen at your church?

Yeah, so obviously the personal emotion element is huge.

You watch everything go down and you're kind of gut punched because I grew very familiar with his voice and all the content that TPUSA puts out and what Charlie was doing and even the excitement of this probably last year.

You would know more, obviously, being so close to him and seeing it, but I noticed a clear shift.

It wasn't mere politics.

The guy was a biblical flamethrower.

He He was unleashing truth.

He was interacting.

It was the college campuses that ignited so much of this.

So we're all fired up.

Our church loves him.

So many of the young people.

And then you see this.

So gut punch.

And then our office came to a standstill that day.

And we have a couple of guys, military guys and a few others on our staff.

They were all there that day.

And we just stopped what we were doing.

We immediately prayed.

Prayed for him, prayed for Erica, the kids, you guys, and it's a lot of emotion.

And then it was about an hour later and our team for the gospel said, hey,

do you want to say anything?

And things were starting to kind of unfold.

And I was keeping up with Ali Beth and everything that was going on.

And everything in me thought, no, I don't want to say anything.

I'm numb.

I'm speechless.

I don't even know what to say.

And then I thought, nope, I have a responsibility as a shepherd, as a leader, as a pastor.

I got to say something.

And so took some time, prayed, and then we put out kind of five truths to hold to when wickedness is unleashed, essentially, and when these kind of things happen.

And it just became about shepherding for us.

People in our church were rocked.

We had so many folks there on Sunday, and we love and loved what you guys were doing and are doing, love and loved Charlie.

And so we are also seeing a lot of excitement and a lot of passion.

So you're living in this really beautiful and difficult tension of mourning and sadness and sorrow.

And then you're going, wait a minute, I don't have a lot of time, not to grieve, but I don't have a lot of time to sit around and wallowing and get in online fist fights and get all down the drama trail because people are showing up going, I'm rocked because of Charlie.

I'm here.

I want to follow Christ.

What do I do?

And you are right back in the saddle.

And it kind of speaks to the way he was in many ways.

Get on the plow.

Get after it.

There's people to serve.

Not like the show goes on in a callous or emotionless way.

It's like, hey, we have a gospel to preach, Jesus to serve, and people to reach.

So get after it.

So you guys are living this this right now as well.

It's you're onward, but you're feeling it.

So we've been similar.

Okay, we were talking about revival, and a lot of people have been using that word.

And certainly at the memorial, it felt like a big revival in a lot of ways.

What is a revival, though?

Like, what can we look for to see the true fruit of an actual revival, not just an emotional experience, but a real resurgence in true repentance and faith?

Yeah.

So two words that I've been using, not interchangeably, but distinct, revival and renewal.

So revival is to bring alive something that was dead.

So that is your new believers, people getting saved, people coming to faith.

They were absolutely agnostic.

They were detached.

They were indifferent.

And then all of a sudden they come alive.

There's a revival, something dead, now alive.

Renewal is like when you renovate your house.

The house isn't rebuilt, but you're renewed.

We have both happening right now.

The clear fruit of a revival is going to be genuine conversion, so real gospel preaching, not just, you know, oh, I want to get back to God, or I just want to be more conservative.

Those things are fine.

When people want to turn back to God, we need to define that, or people want to be more conservative.

I saw some folks posting and saying, I'm officially leaving the left, I'm going right, I'm done with this.

And everyone's like, yeah, okay.

Not fully the goal here.

And Charlie and all you guys would say the same thing.

Not the goal.

The goal is heart transformation, turning to Christ, not merely conservatism.

So revival is that which is dead coming alive, genuine fruit being love for the gospel, love for the Lord, and then faith exploding.

We don't care what you say.

We'll do it in love, but we're going to be bold.

We don't care what happens to us.

We care about life and one another, but ultimately our allegiance is to Christ.

And what you have is this surge of church attendance, not because church saves you, but because people want to hear the truth.

You get this surge in evangelism.

We've got people in our church.

I was with a group of men this morning.

We have this large Bible study, and it got larger this week.

I've got dudes that are bringing their neighbors, guys that are coming out of the woodworks, people going, man, I've been thinking about this for a while.

And then others saying,

I don't know what happened to me, but I've been waking up every day saying,

that Charlie Kirk guy was onto something.

So I went down the rabbit trail and I realized I want to believe in Jesus Christ.

So revival will result in that true fruit and renewal will result in old school or maybe we'll call them seasoned believers and people who've been a little dry spiritually going this is what that's right I forgot this is what we need to be living for what are we doing on cruise control let's go and so both and does that make sense it does and first I want to speak to the new Christians because there's a lot of people out there I'm sure Andrew has been getting these tweets and these emails too okay I'm a new Christian what do I do Like, I want to go to church.

I want to read the Bible.

But some of these people, I've seen, I saw a post from an atheist woman that I've been following for a long time.

We've gone back and forth a few times, and she was raised an atheist, and she knows nothing about it.

But she went to church, and she's like, it was so foreign to me, and I don't know what to do with myself.

So first, let's speak to the new Christians.

What do you do now?

Okay.

So I made a little list because I kind of knew we were going to talk about this.

I know.

And you're so good at making lists.

You really are.

It's very organized.

I can see it.

Yeah.

I can see it on camera.

This is an organized brain.

I love my lists because it drives me crazy when my own kind, like theologizers, pastors, and theology, use big words, use $100 words when a $1 word were like,

come on, man.

Give me the list.

What do you would do?

I'm in.

Let's go.

So, number one, I would say be grounded in scripture.

So, we want people reading the Word of God, and you don't go off like kind of a spray or a mist, just all everywhere.

Go somewhere specific.

So, the Gospel of John is a great place to start reading.

What kind of Bible?

Can they just get a Jesus calling?

Can they just say that?

Oh, I love that.

Love that.

Let's go even further deep into the root.

Well, I saw that in in one of the comments, one of my tweets.

I was like, oh, Allie, chime in on that.

Like, so somebody was asking, I need a new believer Bible.

What do I get?

I said ESV study Bible, but I would love for you to.

ESV Study Bible, an NASB study Bible.

Those are going to be two really good translations.

Those are just translations.

They all have the same idea, but ESV is a little more literal than an NIV.

Your English Standard Version or your New American Standard Bible.

And there's some fun particulars in those.

Like, for example, the NASB will put exclamation points where the Greek is exclamatory.

So when you're reading, you're like, oh, that's a fired up statement right there versus just a basic.

So start with a good, like word-for-word type of translation, ESV or NASB.

And then from there, a study Bible is really helpful.

I watched a clip of you and Charlie talking, and he was like, John MacArthur is one of the, he's got to be one of the best Bible teachers on the planet right now.

And there's some guys that have good study Bibles like that where they have notes in the bottom and it just offers clarification.

So people can read the Gospel of John.

John wrote so that you would believe.

And so why wouldn't you want to read that?

Another book that I think is really helpful right now, especially would be the book of Ephesians.

They're really letters.

So the letter of Ephesians.

And the reason I say that is I preached through Ephesians as the first book we went through as a church plant, so rookies, newbies, because it covers the gospel.

It also covers essentials like prayer, the Holy Spirit, who is Jesus, and unity in the church.

But then it gets really fun.

Chapter four kind of turns and it's like beyond church leadership into chapter five, and it starts talking about marriage, relationships, work, life.

And you're going, oh, that's really parenting your mouth, how you talk, how you think, and then spiritual warfare in chapter six.

And because I believe that we are to live as people at war, not a physical war per se, but a spiritual war.

And so the book of Ephesians, and then last tip on that,

the letter of Psalms.

So all of the Psalms and then Proverbs, because Psalms will offer you glimpses of hope, praise, also pain, of David going through loss and he cries out to God.

And then injustice, when the wicked do things, David prays big theology word, imprecatory prayers, basically.

God get them prayers.

That's where it's like, sick them, Lord.

You see what they're doing.

And David prays these prayers.

How long will you allow the wicked to rage?

Do God do something?

And so we can pray those kind of prayers and turn all that over to the Lord.

And then Proverbs is full of wisdom.

So that's one key.

I had a friend that was going through a really hard season of life, and he said for two years, all he could do was read the Psalms.

It was just, it was the only thing that got him through it.

It was just, it was so heart-wrenching, and it was the wicked were coming after him, and it was just the Psalms were all that kept sustained him.

So, anyways, and sometimes you have seasons like that in life.

If you're a new Christian, you have to understand that there will be really hard seasons.

And sometimes you might need to just read the Psalms.

But, anyways, there's a lot of good stuff.

I don't want to say that.

Amen.

But Ephesians is great.

And Erica mentioned Ephesians 5 in her speech

on Sunday.

And how did they pick a good church?

Okay, so my second one was commit to a strong local church.

I personally unapologetic on this one.

You've got to find a church that is unleashing the word of God.

And I really do think it's so...

applicable when you look at the way Charlie operated.

And he operates as such a great illustration for so many of the things he was living it.

But something I just jotted down was look for a church that preaches the Bible, gives you doctrine.

Think of how Charlie operated.

Was he shallow?

No, he was clear and simple, but he was never shallow.

And so, you're not looking for a preacher that's going to stand up there and tell you cute little stories and make you laugh and then pat you on the back and just send you on, you know, to lunch.

You want a guy that gives you all the smoke, you want him to give you all the truth and press it on your life.

So, you leave like you leave how you'd want to leave the gym.

You're like, okay, that was a good workout.

Kind of sweaty.

He really pushed on some buttons, and I don't know how I feel about all that.

That's called conviction from the Holy Spirit.

And so, really important you go to a church that opens the Bible and lets it fly.

Yeah,

that's really good.

I'm gonna

invite you to preach the gospel, to proclaim the gospel.

For those listening that are maybe curious, so I'm gonna, I should have just pounced on you just so you could do it, but no,

uh, but I think I just feel called to invite you to do that.

So, I'm inviting you because something was stirring in my spirit.

I don't want to assume everybody out there has made that decision, decision.

So

I would love to hear it.

Yeah, I think that one of the easiest ways to understand the gospel is God-man-Christ response.

Four simple things.

God is holy.

He's real.

He is the creator of heaven and earth.

He's the ruler and holds all authority.

He is a righteous, holy, loving Father.

And that is who God is.

Man is sinful.

We broke God's law from the Garden of Eden all the way through until now.

We all sinned.

The Bible says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Every sin that we would call small is still great enough to send you to hell and separate you from God.

And man has one core issue.

It's not our politics.

It's not the amount of money we make or don't make.

Our main core issue is the issue of sin.

It separates us from God.

So you have God and you have man.

And then you need a solution because if we have no solution, we are damned to hell.

We are on a one-way track into judgment.

And so God, though, being so loving, says, I'll send my son, Jesus Christ, to die in their place.

And the reason there has to be death and blood is because sin requires payment, because God is holy.

He would be an unjust God to say, ah, sin's no big deal and wink at it.

Because he's holy, he deals with sin.

Because man is sinful, he would deal with man.

But instead of causing you and I to burn in fiery judgment or the wrath of Almighty God to fall on us, he says, I love my creation so much, I'll send my son, Jesus Christ, to die.

And so Jesus came, why we make such a big deal about Jesus.

And it's all about Jesus.

People are thinking, why are you singing about Jesus?

Who's this Jesus guy?

He's the one who came from heaven as a man and lived a perfect life we could never live, died a perfect and complete death, taking the full wrath of God upon himself, every sin past, present, and future, all of it, in your place, in my place.

He shed his blood in death on the cross.

But it didn't stop there.

The devil thought he won, but Jesus rose from the grave.

And that was a declaration that death has no victory.

Now death has no sting.

Death now has no hold.

And so all the Father is saying is, if you place your faith in my Son, I no longer see you in your sin.

I will not pour my wrath out on you.

I poured my wrath on him.

I look through my Son, Jesus Christ, at you, and I see you washed, cleansed, forgiven, mine.

And so that is how we enter heaven.

Faith, not in ourselves, not in our good works, not in anything we are, but in Jesus Christ.

And so response then is this.

Choose this day whom you will serve.

Will you put your faith in Jesus Christ?

Will you lay down your pride and your sin, all of your fears, your guilt, your shame, and say, Jesus, I give you everything.

I surrender my life to you.

Please, please, please save me.

You are my Lord.

You are my Savior.

And then give your life to him.

Death will not be the end for you.

It's the beginning of eternal life.

Praise God.

Beautiful.

And I just feel like there's people listening right now that have this thing that's holding on in their chest like they won't let go and they want to.

And I just want to say, like, let go.

Let go.

And actually, Allie, you sent me this

song.

It was the Saturday after it happened.

And I was holding on to all these things that I thought my life was going to be before Charlie was killed.

All the plans that we had around the show.

It was a lot.

Where I was going to live, how I was going to live, what my family's future was was going to look like.

And I was afraid for what all this would be.

And I listened to that song, I had like an ugly cry.

I'm not afraid to admit it.

And I could feel myself letting go and dying to myself in that moment and saying, yes, Lord.

Yes.

Wow.

And

then the fear melted away because at that point it wasn't up to me anymore.

It was up to Jesus.

And so I feel like there's people in the audience right now that can relate to that.

Just say yes.

You know, the story that you just told, it was a song by Matthew S.

And I just love to see, especially over the past couple of weeks, how God has worked through the lives of believers to build up the body of Christ because that's what he does.

Matthew S., who I hadn't talked to in a while, he texted me that song.

He was like, I wrote this demo after Charlie died.

And I don't know why, because I don't even know if we had really spoken except for maybe exchanged a couple texts.

And I was just like, I was sitting and I was like, I'm going to text this to Andrew.

I don't know.

I just feel like I need to text it to Andrew.

And so immediately I just texted it to you.

And obviously, that was the Holy Spirit.

It wasn't me.

It wasn't even Matthew.

It was God working.

He knew

what he needed to do.

You know,

I mean, I'd love to release that song.

I don't know if he's released it publicly, but it was beautiful.

And I actually sent it to Erica.

And she, she, I mean, I don't think she would mind saying, because it was Saturday.

It had happened on Wednesday.

You know, if you...

you know, touched us wrong on the arm, like we just start crying about something.

Totally.

But, you know, she texted back just like crying emojis, and she was just like, This is so beautiful.

So, it meant a lot

in the moment.

And,

and, I, yeah, I just think that there is this thing in our flesh that wants to hold on to our own intellect, right?

You know, because I remember for me, I just, when I became a Christian, the hardest thing was my intellect.

It just, you know, some fairy God, like, I can't really, you know, give me science, give me physical, something I could touch, but that is faith.

And maybe talk about that, you know, because we live in such a materialistic world, we live in a scientific world, you know, but what, how do you get past that?

What does faith actually mean?

And what does it look like for people that maybe don't have it yet?

Yeah, the Bible says without faith it's impossible to please God.

And it's a very interesting statement to make.

So I don't please God if I don't have faith.

And you think, why is that the thing that God wants and requires of us?

Because it is a total admission that you are not enough.

You don't have have it in you.

You can't do enough.

You don't have the strength.

You don't have the hope.

You don't have the works.

You don't have the methods or the strategies to do anything.

It's got to be God.

And so faith pleases him because faith is humility.

Faith is saying, God, I can't do this anymore.

I can't do this in my own strength.

I don't have enough knowledge.

All my smarts, all my money, all my efforts, all of my strategies,

they can't get me through this.

I need you.

And so, why is faith the pathway to salvation?

Why do we have to have faith in Jesus Christ?

Because it is total surrender.

And that's what God wants.

And then you say, well, why does God want that?

Because he knows it's what's best for us.

Man has always failed trying to do everything on his own.

We make a mess of everything.

When you turn to God in faith, you're saying, I don't see it.

I don't always understand it.

But I trust you.

And that, that is where the Holy Spirit meets people where they are and transformation happens.

Amen.

Andrew talked about Hebrews Hebrews 12 earlier in Hebrews 11.

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the down payment, the guarantee of things hoped for.

And all those heroes of the faith in Hebrews 11, they trusted, even though they didn't always see the promised land, they didn't see the end result, they trusted that God was who he says he is.

I want to talk about discipleship because, you know, as seasoned Christians, I'm looking at all of these people who are curious or they're like giving their lives to Christ.

And I'm like, okay, I want those, I need those people to stay.

I want them to get into good churches, to read the Word of God, but I know you can't do this alone.

So, what's our responsibility as we see this turning to Jesus to disciple these people, to take them in?

What does it look like?

Okay, first, I think it's awesome and kind that you respond that way, but I want to roll it back just one layer deeper.

Okay.

There are going to be a lot of people who are responding that way, and then there's going to be a spirit of cynicism.

And so, first thing I want to tell the seasoned believers in the church is you reject a cynical spirit right at the root.

We haven't dealt with this in our church by the grace of God, but here's the deal.

Remember the prodigal son?

The prodigal goes wild.

Who was there obeying, being faithful?

The other son.

Yeah.

And what happens when the prodigal comes back?

Oh, come on.

I didn't get the fat and calf.

What's all the big deal for this?

You'll have a bunch of people that say, oh, we'll see if the hype lasts.

Oh, yeah, they were all there at State Farm Stadium on Sunday.

We'll see if they actually show up to church next Sunday.

Oh, yeah, this is just about Charlie.

Do it for Charlie.

Do it for Charlie.

I've been serving Jesus.

I wasn't serving.

You'll have all of that Pharisaic stuff.

So, number one, seasoned saints, do not be that guy.

So, don't give into the cynical spirit.

Yeah, no cynical spirit.

This is what we live for.

This is why we're here.

I mean, the church is plan A.

We throw the nets, we gather the fish.

And so, number one, I want people to have a soft, tender-hearted love for the lost and the seeking who are coming.

Reject cynicism.

Beyond that, open your heart up to discipleship.

I mean, be ready to answer questions, get in the mess of people's lives, get down to kind of the early stuff where people sometimes go, oh, that's so basic.

You know, no, give them the basics.

I was actually talking to a brother just recently.

He's a newer believer in the sense of like doctrine and truth.

He's learning and reading his Bible.

And I was going on and on, like, you know, motor mouthing in this conversation and I was throwing different stuff out and he was eating it up.

And then I said something, I'm like, you know, and I mentioned a story in the Bible and he was like no I haven't heard that I don't so I don't know all the stories in the Bible like you're talking about I and and I went oh so good and no better example of this than my own wife when we were dating we talked one time about some story and I assumed she knew it later on I found it you know she had been writing about it and I was like hey you know what and I told her this story I said you've probably heard this already she's like oh tell me again and so I thought she she knew I find out later, she didn't know the story, and she just wanted me to share it again.

And she said to me, Make me one promise.

If you become a pastor one day and we're married, and we have a church, will you just not be that guy that says, Turn in your Bible to this passage?

Now, I know y'all have heard this before, or you know, now everyone knows the story.

She said, Costie, there are so many people like me who did not grow up in church.

We grew up in America, but we don't know all the church stories.

And when y'all use all of this, it's not even insider language.

We just want to be brought into that language.

And maybe if you just say, hey, when you're turning your Bible, turn your Bible to the book of Philippians.

I have no clue where Philippians is.

If you could just think of me, that would be awesome.

And it created a tenderheartedness in me to just remember the person that's coming doesn't know all that you know.

So take it easy.

And then also, it'll train you and it'll show how much do you really know?

Because if you can't articulate it to the rookie, you're not as smart as you think you are.

Okay, that reminds me of being in college and taking this finance class.

And the teacher got out there and was like well y'all already know what credit is and i was like

we do because i don't and i had no idea and it made me it made me discourage it made me want to drop out of the class because i didn't know what he was talking about he never explained it yeah he just assumed that we all had this base knowledge so it can actually be very discouraging for new christians when we're just like way up here and they're like hang on what's john 3 16 i haven't heard that yeah yeah and i i just love that erica actually addressed this it's it's i mean at this speech, by the way, she gave two of the best speeches I've ever heard, and she did it within a matter of days under the most excruciating of circumstances.

And she knew the world was watching.

Only God.

Only God.

And she speaks to this.

So let's go ahead and play cut 118.

All of you.

All of you who are already believers, it is your job to shepherd these people.

Do not take that lightly.

Water the seed of their faith.

Protect it and help it grow.

It's funny.

I didn't, I hadn't, I knew she said that line, but I didn't think of the seed.

And the whole time you were talking about cynicism, I was thinking of the parable of the sower and that the seeds are going out.

I mean, there are a lot of seeds going out right now.

And some will land in good soil.

Some will land among thorns.

And I mean, God's going to do what God's going to do,

but we have to be ready to water the seeds with the expectation that they will grow into maturity.

Yeah, we need to model patience and grace as well as people come with their stuff and their mess and they don't have it all figured out or they've been doing things maybe the wrong way or they don't have a clue and walk with them and come alongside them.

You see this in Acts chapter 8.

There's this story of the Ethiopian eunuch.

And Philip, one of the apostles, runs into this guy, and he shows up.

And this guy is reading a scroll.

He's reading Isaiah.

That's how they used to do it.

They have these big scrolls.

And so he's reading.

And in my, you know, CHV, the Costa Hin version, basically, Philip rolls up on this guy and is like, hey, what you reading?

And he's like, you know, oh, I've read Isaiah, you know, the scroll.

And so Philip then explains Christ from Isaiah, which has lots of prophecies about Jesus.

And the guy then goes, hey,

look, there's water.

What prevents me from being baptized?

And so he's like, he's all in.

Clearly, he wants to follow Jesus.

Philip has evidently explained that, hey, after you profess faith in Christ, you go get baptized not for salvation, but because of salvation.

And it's this declaration of the world.

Look at me.

I'm one of these crazy people, one of these followers of the way.

I'm getting in the water.

I'm buried with Christ, raised to new life.

Look, I'm a Christian.

And he didn't give him a theology exam.

He didn't say we're going to need you to pass a few classes.

He didn't say, well, we'll see if it's real, you Ethiopian eunuch.

this guy gets walked into the waters of baptism.

And so there's an illustration there of how we can be come alongside someone.

Hey, what are you reading?

Help me, HMU, help me understand.

And I think that's one of the best ways to meet people where it also builds trust.

And people go, Oh, you don't just want to hammer me and show off all that you know.

You actually want to help me and love me.

I'll follow you wherever you go.

Just show me the way of truth.

And so we want to have that tender heart.

What does discipleship look like on a day-to-day basis?

Yep.

So, two elements of that.

The Great Commission, when Jesus says, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded.

So, in the Great Commission is this teaching element.

We're going to be teaching a lot.

So, you got to be patient.

You also got to know your stuff.

And so, seasoned Christians, armor up because you're going to be using all of that good truth.

But then, also, the Greek word for disciple, Mathetes, and that just teacher and you have pupils.

You have have teachers and you have students.

That's what disciple is.

So being a disciple is being a faithful student.

It's being a good pupil.

And to disciple someone means to teach them.

And so we're going to need Christians to get their eyes off themselves, to get their eyes off all of their busy schedules and what they're obsessing over and kind of, well, I got to do me.

I don't have time for these needy people.

No, there's going to be folks that are like spiritual toddlers.

They're spiritual babies and they need to be nursed on the milk of the word, raised up to be able to digest the meat of the word.

And so you have got, we're commanded to make disciples.

So you don't look at this and go, oh, all these people, it's so busy.

No, you look and go, oh, look at all of these mouths to feed and hearts wide open to teach and guide.

That's the heart.

I want to highlight one thing.

We have this sweet couple in our church.

They were at the memorial on Sunday and just one of...

My buddy Jordan, one of his best friends, was really close, worked here at TPUSA, and his sweet wife, they roll up to campus, our church, the Sunday after Charlie was killed, and the parking lot is jammed.

I mean, it was wall-to-wall, both services, and they sent me this message, and they were weeping.

They pulled in, and they have young kids.

Like, it's not easy to get your, you know, this.

We all know this.

Like, you, getting your kids to church in the morning is a feat.

There should be awards.

I think the devil intentionally, like, sabotages that time for what it's worth.

Just bro.

He hides the shoes.

No, it's

the shoes.

It is.

Somebody wakes up in a bad mood and they're crying and they don't want to get dressed and you got to like, you know.

Yeah.

Anyways, dude, no, you're right.

That's why a mentor once told me Sunday morning church is a Saturday evening mission or decision.

So you start praying.

That's really smart.

You steam those outfits.

Yeah, seriously.

You prep the snack bag.

Oh, you put the worship on.

You're like,

this home is spirit-filled and we are going to the house of God with God's people.

And so they roll up and they have young kids and now they have to park further.

It's Arizona, so it still feels like summer here.

and they're weeping because they know what it means yeah and that's the kind of heart we need to disciple people they are not annoying they are not the problem they are the mission so get after it and come alongside and do the work

our good friends at angel studios i love angel studios amazing new film this holy week phenomenal as i think about charlie's life and how much of a support he was of angel it's hard not to feel so grateful for what he did.

He supported us in our darkest days and in our brightest hours as a company.

Jeff and I and Charlie were doing lunch together.

We asked him, he said, are you at all worried about one of these college campuses?

And he just said, with so much peace in his eyes and so much peace in his heart, if that's how God takes me, then that's how I'm supposed to go.

And I feel like that was a clear message that Charlie's life is a testimony to Jesus Christ, his Lord and Savior.

And his relationship with him was the most important thing that he would want the world to remember about his legacy.

Man, are we grateful to have

gotten to be a little connection in the multitude of connections that he made throughout his life because it was so impactful to us?

Thank you, Charlie.

Love you.

We miss you.

We're going to continue to drive forward the good news.

I am joined by the one and only Allie Beth Stuckey, one of Charlie's dear, dear friends and a confidant.

And I'm so honored to have you here.

It's an honor to be here.

And it's fun.

Y'all are fun.

Well, I know.

And by the way, and then my new friend here, Pastor Consty, I got that right, didn't I?

Costi.

Costi.

Yes.

I'm a new friend, so you get it wrong a few times.

I know.

I invited someone.

It's a unique word.

It's a unique name.

It is.

I invited someone that not only I knew could just bring the gospel and help us so much, but I was like, Andrew is genuinely going to love gossiping just as a person.

So we're now having fun.

Just making friendships over years.

So

there's two things I want to get into.

And then we do have Kurt Cameron coming on for the second half of this hour.

So more friends are going to be joining.

And he obviously had been a guest on the show and so many things.

But I want to talk about

two things.

I want to talk about...

Erica's speech and what she presented with male and female because this is a central theme of yours, a central ministry of yours.

And I thought she just, I mean, like the word choice was so precise and exact.

And I also want to talk about this forgiveness moment because I actually quoted your tweet yesterday on the show,

you know, to

differentiate between Romans 12 and Romans 13.

So, anyway, so we're going to do this, but we'll start with the female-male dichotomy,

male and female, which I thought was profound that she even brought that up.

I wasn't expecting her to go there.

Totally, but it makes sense.

Yeah, because their marriage really was such a great example.

And Charlie talked about it all the time.

Totally, all the time.

He was obsessed with Erica.

So let's go ahead and play cut 119.

This is Erica's message to the men.

Charlie passionately wanted to reach and save the lost boys of the West.

The young men who feel like they have no direction,

no purpose, no faith, and no reason to live.

The men wasting their lives on distractions, and the men consumed with resentment, anger, and hate.

Charlie wanted to help them.

He wanted them to have a home with Turning Point USA.

And when he went onto campus, he was looking to show them a better path

and a better life that was right there for the taking.

He wanted to show them that.

My husband, Charlie,

he wanted to save

young men,

just like the one who took his life.

So good.

And she goes on to say: to challenge men to be a man worth following.

But in the interest of time, I'm going to go to the woman verse because actually that hit me equally as hard, and I'm not a woman.

Let's play Cut 120.

Women, I have a challenge for you, too.

Be virtuous.

Our strength is found in God's design for our role.

We are the guardians.

We are the encouragers.

We are the preservers.

Guard your heart.

Everything you do flows from it.

And if you're a mother, please recognize that is the single

most important ministry you have.

And then she goes on to say, you are not your husband's rival.

And I just like, when she said that, I was like, ugh.

It just, it was like she.

Zeroed in on this lie of our age that is really, I think, challenging not only marriages, but the formation of marriages as well.

And I would love to hear from you on this, Alex.

Yes.

I don't know if you remember this, but the last face-to-face conversation that Charlie and I had on this show was about his viral comments about Taylor Swift needing to submit to her husband.

And he was like, come on, is this true?

And of course it's true.

Ephesians 5 is true.

And she just emulates that so well.

But her message there to women, especially that you are not your husband's rival.

And I just want to encourage women to think about that, not just in like the macro big picture sense, because that's true.

You're meant to compliment one another.

Wives submit to your husbands.

Husbands love their wives as Christ loved the church, also in the micro sense, because when you're in the midst of the newborn stage, when you're in difficult seasons of life, that's when the rivalry comes out.

That's when Satan does his best work in Christian marriages.

I'm doing more than him.

I'm doing this better.

That kind of dissension and division, Satan loves that.

So remember in the small moments that you are not your husband's rival.

You're not his enemy.

You're not competing against him.

You are both trying to push the ball down the field in the same direction.

And someone told me that at the beginning of my marriage.

That's always what I tell newlyweds, that you and your husband are on the same team with the same goal.

And if you think about that in your day-to-day, that changes how you talk to him.

That changes how you treat him and how you think about him.

Yep.

That's so true.

It reminds me of the beginning of creation when God says, I will make a helper suitable for him.

It's not good for man to be alone.

And he creates this team dynamic.

And you can view it as kind of two rails for a train to run.

And you need a home that has men who step up and take the leadership role that God's given them, do that in love, and women who embrace the role.

And you do have a ton of this Taylor Swift kind of feminist culture saying, you're so much more than just a stay-at-home mom, Allie.

You're so much more than just a woman.

You're so much more than just a cook.

And they create these false dichotomies.

As though a role that focuses primarily on the health and home of the, or the health and the home of the children and the husband, and embracing that is this evil that's going to steal you from your true calling.

That's the lie.

And then Satan can divide homes, divide marriages, and now destroy the family, which puts us right back where we were as a country and as a culture.

So I hope people can see the spiritual warfare all in here.

And it's interesting, too, because of all the issues that would get Charlie in the controversy of the news cycle or whatever, it was always this male-female dynamic.

Totally.

I mean, there was other ones like race would tend to be in there.

But the male-female thing, and it's occurring to me now, Erica and Charlie's relationship was so like kind of wonderful and pure

and biblical.

He was too innocent to understand how people were going to criticize it.

I really believe that because when

you know Erica said to the men, like, your wife is not your slave.

And here's Charlie Kirk every Saturday leaving a message for Erica, a note.

He would handwrite a little note and give it to her.

And he would always end with, how can I serve you?

Please let me know how I can better serve you.

So Charlie wasn't even thinking like, hey, male and female, roles are different, obviously.

You know,

you gotta, you know, women submit to your, to your husbands as, you know,

by the way, and because Charlie always had that paradigm that, you know, men, you need to serve your wives and sacrifice yourselves for your wives, just as Christ sacrificed himself for his bride, the church.

And so Charlie had that image in his head every time.

And I'll never forget one of the last interviews he did with Laura Ingram, she asked him about this.

And

I'll never forget he goes, he goes, okay, Laura, I'll do it.

But I always get like, everybody always comes after me for this.

And poor guy, because he's sitting here, like, speaking the truth, taking the slings and arrows.

And he was right.

Yeah, he couldn't have even considered, because it's so not how their relationship is, that, People thought that it means some kind of exploitation or some kind of tyranny over your wife.

And the irony is here, because you know, people have called him all kinds of names, especially in the past couple of weeks, handmaids, tail, blah, blah, blah.

I'm like, does it look like Charlie Kirk was scared of strong women?

Clearly not.

Like, he didn't marry a shrinking violet.

He was not afraid of a woman's intellect and her wisdom and her help and her coming alongside him.

And I'm sure as an advisor and all of these things, Charlie Kirk championed in the right biblical way these strong women like his wife.

And so it's just so ironic.

I've actually heard, I'm glad you reminded me of this.

I've heard from multiple people that have been in and around the office in the days hence, and it's,

I've gotten this comment that you guys have so many strong women that are helping lead Turning Point USA.

We have a lot of strong men, but we also have a lot of strong women.

And people have mentioned to me, like, you know, this is this is really quite the image

of the two, you know, sexes really balancing each other other out and working together to pull off these amazing events.

And the right kind of strength, too.

It's like you acknowledge their strength as image bearers of God, as people have been given certain capacities and talents, while still recognizing the very distinct differences between male and female.

Yeah, I mean, this show would not exist in its present form without Daisy,

who's a character sometimes on the show, so the audience might know.

But I don't know if we've...

If we're ready to move on yet.

It's up to you, Allie.

I mean,

we don't have our radio audience at the moment, so it's up to you if you want to dive into you want to go to Romans 13?

I think we want to go to Romans 13.

So obviously, Erica,

and my personal experience, because I sort of knew what was about to happen, but even me having the foreknowledge that this was about to happen,

my flesh fought her saying that,

forgiving the killer.

And I actually,

yeah, my flesh didn't want her to do it.

And I saw some of the pushback online, people saying, like, I could never do that.

Even Trump was like, I'm not forgiving my opponents.

You know, I'm sorry, Charlie's mad at me.

He's looking down and he's mad at me.

But I related to that, but I also understood the profound importance of what she did.

And so you had this great tweet separating

God's justice and then government's justice.

And then for the aggrieved party, in which case this is Erica,

and the power of forgiving.

Yeah.

And Costia will be able to speak into this really well.

But when Jesus is talking about turn the other cheek, he's talking about our interpersonal relationships.

He is not negating the government's role in executing justice because we read in Romans 13 that the government was instituted by God to punish evil.

The government does not bear the sword in vain.

And so it is not the government's job.

to give grace and to forgive, not to say that there's no place for legal mercy in our system at all, but the government who is tasked at protecting the most vulnerable and to honor God in defining right and wrong, how God defines it, has to punish evil.

Yeah.

Has to restrain evil.

That's how we protect vulnerable people.

That's how we protect primarily women and children from violence and bad guys.

And God is a God of order.

We see that from the very beginning, that he placed us not in a jungle, but in a garden and told us to work and to keep it.

And we see his ordering of things throughout creation and throughout scripture.

And the government is part of that order.

And one day we'll live in perfect peace and joy with Jesus.

But right now, we're on earth with a lot of sinners.

And there has to be something done about sin to restrain evil.

So we are relieved of that burden of carrying out vengeance.

Thank God.

That is also another beautiful thing about having a rightly ordered government is that it's not our job to be vigilantes.

It's not our job to return violence for violence.

So thank you, Lord.

Thank you, Jesus, for taking that burden off of our shoulders and then placing it on the shoulders of the government.

So people were trying to compare Stephen Miller saying, you know, we're going to go after evil and Erica Kirk.

And I'm like, no, those two things both exist.

Government punishes evil, we forgive.

Yep.

Yeah.

There's two really clear things that I think people get confused a lot of the time.

Forgiveness does not mean there will be no justice.

Forgiveness also is not reconciliation.

So very important.

Forgiveness only takes one.

Okay.

Because forgiveness defined biblically is, I am releasing you.

So what Erica did on Sunday, and no doubt she had done it prior, leading up to it, then said it publicly, Erica had released Charlie's killer.

She said, I release you.

That does not mean they are released from justice and from consequence.

She's saying, in my heart, I will not hold this against you.

I will not let it eat me every day, and I will not think about you and let you hijack my life in bitterness because bitterness destroys the soul.

So, she says, I release you.

It's not reconciliation.

Reconciliation takes two.

If you and I have an issue.

All right, okay, this is great.

Brother, you can forgive me.

I can forgive you.

But reconciliation takes two.

Reconciliation is I confess and I repent and I say, I'm sorry.

Will you forgive me?

And you say, oh, brother Costi, of course.

Look, I'm sorry, though.

I repent.

Will you forgive me?

And you forgive me and I forgive you.

And together we release the issue.

This is so good.

You need those two counterpoints.

And I've thought about this with families, right?

People with really dysfunctional families.

And so you're the kid that grows up and your parents are alcoholics or some some sort of dysfunction that's really and there's probably a lot of people in the audience that that's their reality totally and

you know you think oh i have to be reconciled because i'm a christian with my parents well not necessarily there is and the bible is very clear about you need to respect your parents but that doesn't mean that you need to then let them into your house every day or you need to hang out at you know at family gatherings all of a sudden that is not what that means it means releasing that burden i love the way that it's and and by the way, and that person holds no power over you at that point.

And I think that was what Eric was doing.

She also said, I want no blood on my ledger.

I do not want him on my ledger.

I'm giving this to the Lord.

I don't want to hold hatred of you.

And I thought that was really beautiful too because she said, I want nothing getting in the way of me seeing my husband in heaven.

And I thought that was really amazing.

And you were always such a great supporter of Charlie and his mission, Ali.

And I really do want to give you a hat tip.

I think there is this part of scripture where it says

he who

receives a prophet receives a prophet's reward.

And I don't know that I ever fully understood that.

But then I see kind of what's happening

in the aftermath.

And I really do believe Charlie was a prophet who called.

the nations to repent.

I didn't travel with him to England or South Korea or Japan these last international trips he came or he went on, but I was talking about it with Blake, one of our producers, and

it's so clear to me now.

He was going into these nations and calling them to repent.

And when he was in Japan, he shared the gospel as well.

And when Seoul, there was, I mean, much of the audience was Christian, and they just showered him in prayer.

And it was amazing seeing the footage.

It was just like days before his death, he was just absorbing this beautiful prayer.

And he got off the stage, and Mikey said, you know, it was one of the few times he saw Charlie Emotional ever

just absorbing all these Koreans' prayers.

But in general, when he went to to the UK, he was calling the UK to repent.

Like, remember yourself, remember yourself.

Yes.

And in Japan, like, you know, there's all this promise for you.

Come, know Jesus, right?

But that's what he did.

And he went around America, college campuses, telling kids to repent, calling the culture to repent and to confront evil and confront lies.

And he never really had to do that with you, Allie.

And

that was a relief for him.

And I knew he just knew that you had this spine of steel in you, that you were so rock-solid in your faith and in your values, that you would not be moved by the waves, by the crashing waves.

You were not double-minded.

And

he knew that very well, very well about you.

Charlie was such an encourager after I shared this with my audience, but when Charlie got shot, I called our mutual friend because I got a text.

I was on my way to a doctor's appointment and I got a text that Charlie Kirk has got gotten shot.

And I was like, no, that's not real.

Or maybe, you know, he got shot in the arm.

But I called our mutual friend.

And I was like, is this true?

This person's crying.

This person is like, I don't,

yes, it's true.

And we just like hung up the phone.

I am like, I can't believe it.

And I call my dad and I'm, I'm crying.

He's in Ireland.

I'm like sobbing.

And because at that point I had heard that he got shot in the neck or the head and I didn't know.

Um and I was like, that's it.

I was like, I'm done.

I'm done.

I'm not doing this anymore.

I can't, I can't do this.

And my dad, who is so level-headed, he was like, you know, after all of this clears, you've got to think, of course, you know, what is Jesus calling you to do?

But also, like, what would Charlie tell you to do?

And I went through our texts, you know, he always texted so many people in encouragement.

And there was one time I did not have a spine of steel.

I was really anxious about this article that had been written about me in the Atlantic.

And it was kind of good, but then also like kind of mean.

And I had, you know, all these hate messages.

Yeah.

And

Charlie had texted me.

He just, how he even had time to like follow all these things and do all of this.

But he texted me a link to the article when I was in the midst of like, oh, this backlash is hard.

And he was like, what an honor.

And he just said, keep slugging.

And I've thought about that phrase so much over the past two weeks.

Keep slugging.

And, you know, the risks I take as a wife and mom.

What, you know, this calling looks like for me is not going to be the same as Charlie.

It's just, it's just not.

I don't have the same capacity.

I don't have the same calling, not in the same exact, like, you know, season of responsibilities.

But all of us, stay-at-home moms, employees, students are called to take risks for the gospel.

Yes.

We are all called to be bold for the gospel.

And I don't know exactly what that looks like for every single person, but that's one thing that Charlie taught me.

And if I had a spine of steel, a lot of it was because of Charlie.

Because Charlie said the hard things first before the rest of us.

And you know, if Charlie said it, it's like, okay, Charlie said it.

We can all say it now.

Yeah, he had an ability to sort of like hold that middle ground.

Of course, the left thought he was like, far right.

And it was interesting in the days afterwards, everybody that knew what they were talking about was like, Charlie was like a kind of a centrist.

Like, he was a moderate, at least.

He wasn't a centrist.

He's a conservative, like, rock-rib conservative.

He brought us all together.

But he, like, what he, it's almost like he took the

actual far right and the moderates and kind of gave everybody this North Star that was that was actually like the same

middle of the right.

Yep.

And so when he would choose to speak out on something, it did have this, he was the icebreaker.

And this breaking through the sheet of ice so that the ships behind him could go and do what they needed to do.

Yeah, and that was really special.

It'll be interesting to see, you know, what it looks like.

But I think subconsciously, a lot of us like in the conservative commentary space took, I mean, we just looked to Charlie, not directly taking marching orders.

He wasn't texting us, telling us what to say or do ever.

But he was such an example that we really did all look to him.

Like we all followed him.

It was like, okay, if this person's invited to turning point, then they've been given a little bit of just like a validity stamp that their ideas at least are worth listening to because Charlie's listening to them.

I love that.

His empty chair is there, and it's interesting because it's almost become like a pilgrimage.

You know, a lot of our friends want to take pictures and remember him and keep this moment.

And

the chair, I've said it a few times this week, but since you guys probably haven't heard it, it was a really funny story.

We tried on like, it was like 13 different chairs.

And he kept saying, nope, nope.

Because Charlie had a really bad back.

Oh, did he?

Yeah, he ran a ton when he was young.

So when he was just starting turning point, that was his outlet to get all the energy out.

He would just run for like seven to ten miles.

But then he would get on a plane and fly for five hours.

And then he'd do it again the next day.

And eventually, just like something, something happened with one of the discs.

And so he had a bad back, and he hated most chairs.

When we would do media rows, and he had to sit in these chairs that he didn't like, I mean, he'd always go, oh, my back.

And so we finally got him the shack chair because we joked he's like a Nephilim.

He was so huge.

And he loved this chair.

And it was probably the cheapest of any of the versions that we got, probably at like Target, but it was made for big people.

And so

it makes me smile every time I see it because,

you know, it traveled.

We had the studio's in a different place and we brought the chair, you know, anyways.

But anyway, you have another special guest that is joining us right now.

So the floor is yours, Allie.

Yeah, I love Kirk Cameron.

I'm so excited to talk to you, Kirk.

You have been talking about revival

for a really long time.

Do we have Kirk ready to go?

Okay.

You've been talking about revival for a long time and what revival looks like.

You've been posting about that on social media.

So I just want to hear first, like, what's your take on what you've seen in the state of the spiritual world over the past couple weeks?

Well, thank you for having me.

I feel so deeply honored to be with both of you right now and

with that empty chair.

Wow.

Yeah.

I am, I'm very excited because

when I think of the wicked evil that took place in front of all of our eyes, I can't help but ask myself the question:

how is this an essential part of the story?

And the story I'm talking about is the story of redemptive history.

The author of life is writing a story, and in some of those chapters, it's an absolute nail biter.

One of,

I mean, there's been many throughout the ages where you have good men, faithful men, and women being martyred and sacrificed for their convictions and for the truth.

And you look at those things and you think, surely God didn't want that to happen.

Surely he was on coffee breaks.

Surely this was not part of the plan.

And yet, we read in the scriptures that Jesus going to the cross was the plan to result in the salvation of millions and billions of people around the world.

And every martyr that has shed his blood has resulted

in

revivals personally and in families and in communities and in nations.

And I know that behind the curtain, God is working miracles, even though we don't understand it and

know the details.

We can trust that what he says is true.

He's working all things together for good, for those who love him and for those who are called according to his purposes.

And it's always at these moments when all hope seems lost, when it's against all odds that God uses the seemingly foolish and weak things of the world to turn things around.

And that's what Charlie was all about.

He's using...

the hearts and minds of young people on college campuses that have now been lit on fire.

And now there's millions of Charlies.

They're all saying, we are Charlie Kirk.

We are Charlie Kirk.

We are carrying on the message.

We're carrying on your tour.

We're carrying on your podcast.

And

it reminds me of Tertullian in the second century, who said, when you mow us down,

you

only make us spread because our blood is like seed.

And that's where we get the phrase,

the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.

So I feel the rumblings of revival under my feet in so many ways.

And this event with Charlie has just poured gasoline onto the fire for millions of people around the world.

Yes, absolutely.

Well, and I'm sorry.

Go ahead, please.

You just made me think of what Mikey McCoy, Charlie's chief of staff, said at the event.

He quoted Kierkegaard and he said, the tyrant dies and his rule is over.

The martyr dies and his rule begins.

And I think there's probably a few ways to, I don't know if that's the direct translation Mikey used or not, but it really is, it gets to this idea of the martyr, the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.

And I will tell you, from the numbers that we're seeing at campus, inquiries to start new TPUSA chapters to the, you know, our friend Tyler went to church and

they started baptizing people in the fountains out in the parking lot.

So this is the exactly.

It's just so exciting, right?

I freaked out when I wasn't able to go to the memorial service, but as I was watching it, I'm going, are you kidding me?

I've never heard, I've heard, these are world leaders sharing more about their faith in Jesus Christ.

This was like a Billy Graham Crusade revival meeting on a massive scale all around the world.

I've never seen anything like it.

And, you know,

I thought of this the other day.

I thought, you know, if.

If Charlie and other saints in heaven have a portal through which they can watch us, I can just imagine him just smiling with that iconic grin that he has.

And I don't know how it all works up there in the great balcony of heaven, but I can just imagine him lifting a glass at a great banquet table in the presence of all of history's heroes and his heroes of the faith and quoting

Ephesians 3.20 saying, and now, look at this, and now to him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly beyond all we could ever ask or imagine, according to the great power that is at work within us all to him be glory in the church and throughout all generations forever and ever amen

and again

i could just i could just picture it in my mind yes fires me up yes me too so we know one thing about this is that satan doesn't go down without a fight and he's already defeated jesus has already won and yet he's doing his darndest there's this quote i'm sure you know it by cs lewis that says there's no neutral ground in all of the universe.

Every spare second, every square inch has been claimed by Christ or counterclaimed by Satan.

And to me, I mean, the day that Charlie was assassinated, it was like, okay, there's Satan gained some ground.

It certainly feels sometimes like this is a losing battle, even though I know that's not true.

Can you tell us how we should be thinking about the reality of spiritual warfare right now?

A lot of people are thinking about Ephesians 6.

We don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against against the principalities, the powers of darkness.

What should we be thinking about that realm right now?

Well,

thank you for asking my opinion.

You know, I'm not a credentialed theologian on this topic, although I have really strong opinions about it just by reading the Bible.

And

I think that if Christians actually understood who we are in Christ and where we are positionally, covenantally with Christ, seated with him in the heavenly places, ruling and reigning together with the Trinity over the nations of the earth, people wouldn't be so concerned about spiritual forces of darkness.

And

here's what I think helps.

One of my favorite scripture passages is in John chapter 12.

And you look there at verses 31 and 32.

And Jesus said, now is the judgment of this world.

You think, wait a minute.

John 3, 16 says Jesus didn't come into the world to judge the world, but that the world through him might be saved.

But listen to what he's saying.

He's saying, now is the judgment of this world, this evil world system, and the ruler of this world shall be cast down.

From where?

From the, from, he was the prince of the power of the air.

He was

in the heavenly places, but he's being cast down.

He says, now is the time for that.

And when I am lifted up from the earth, speaking of the manner in which he would die on a cross, I will draw all people to myself.

So he is describing a massive covenantal power shift in the heavenly realms, in the heavenly places.

This cosmic war results in Jesus declaring, all authority now has been given to me, both in heaven and on earth.

So ask yourself, if all authority, not some, but all has been given to Jesus, both in heaven and on earth, how much authority does that leave for Satan?

Zero.

And he says, he has the keys to the kingdom.

The death blow has been dealt.

The serpent's head has been crushed.

He's overcome death and the grave and the power of hell.

He came to destroy the works of the devil.

He said it is finished.

He is risen.

He is seated next to the Father and deployed the Holy Spirit.

And now he says,

go

into all of the world.

Disciple all the nations.

Teach them to obey all that I've commanded.

And I'll be with you to the end of the age.

In my understanding, my vernacular summary is, boys, it's go time.

You know the place.

Let's go win this together

on three.

And then you see the missionary movements to the ends of the earth.

And I don't believe for a second that we're fighting for victory during a sad time.

I believe that these are exciting times and we are fighting from victory.

And if we understood that,

we could change things in short order politically, economically, in our families and marriages,

in our churches, and we could begin to heavenize this earth like nobody's ever seen before.

That's so good.

I love that phrase you use, by the way, because it feels true,

you know, on a very deep level.

The power shift.

You're talking about Jesus on the cross, but we were also just talking about the blood of the martyrs.

And there is a power shift that I can feel in the heavenly realms here on earth.

And you can see it when we have our nation's most powerful leaders, including Don Jr.,

which still, you know, blows me away.

Yeah.

I think it blew Don away that he, what he did.

But

we have the most powerful leaders in the world, in the free world, preaching the gospel better than some pastors, you know, in front of 100 million live streams.

Well, because, you know, and I think that that is motivated and sharpened

by watching a man who is an archetype of courage, like Charlie Kirk.

We're seeing somebody live for us in real time what we say we believe.

And the problem is we have such people-pleasing, seeker-sensitive, so-called churches that are all about promoting a Jesus that soothes and never saves.

And

Jesus said, if anyone wants to come after me, you need to deny yourself.

You need to take up your cross and follow me.

And that's the kind of life Charlie wanted to live.

And I personally believe that that came into sharper focus and was fueled with rocket fuel more and more over the last five years with Charlie.

And I'm hearing other people say the same thing because of his death.

I mean, J.D.

Vance, our vice president, said, I've talked more about my faith in Jesus in the last two weeks weeks than I have in the last 10 years of public life.

And Kirk, that was an ad-lib.

It wasn't in his speech.

He just threw it in there.

He was moving.

He says everything.

He said that backstage.

I was blown away by Tucker Carlson.

You know, it's not often that we hear

news types and journalists and people who are not necessarily professional Christians come out and be so bold in their faith.

And I was like, man, Tucker is laying it down.

I mean, for those of us who kind of sort of thought that maybe Tucker was

familiar

in a traditional kind of way with Christianity.

I was like, no, he's talking about repentance.

I mean, he's saying the things that

many professional Christians don't really want to say.

And he says it starts with us, with me.

I mean, repentance is the hard work of plowing up the ground and removing the stones of sin, preparing the soil for the gospel to go down and change you into a new kind of person.

It's not about pointing fingers and say it's them, it's them.

He's saying Charlie started with it's me, it's us.

We need to not play the same sick games as sad, broken, lost people who need Jesus.

We need to be transformed and change the way that we think, download the mind of Christ through scripture, and then be empowered by the Holy Spirit to sacrifice and pay the price to be brave.

And the price is you don't get to be a BSer.

if you're going to go out there and be courageous enough to call things what god calls them like charlie did you're also going to be called to see if you're bluffing and charlie wasn't bluffing he was willing to pay the price and sacrifice comfort pleasure um power influence even though he had those things which are not bad things in and of themselves but when they become ultimate things for politicians and religious people, that then becomes idolatry and what God hates.

What Charlie did was he was just living out his convictions, and he was willing to lay it all on the line and said he wasn't afraid because he knew that he was bulletproof until the Lord called him home and his work was done.

And I loved what J.D.

Vance said.

He said, You fought a good fight.

We've got it from here.

And that's been my battle call ever since I i heard him say that so good so good kirk your sister candace has uh told this story i think on the stage of my conference here the arrows and maybe on my show too she was going through a hard time where she was getting some kind of pushback for something and she says that you texted her welcome to the james one club can you explain what that means we got a lot of people who are newly emboldened or new christians they're not used to being persecuted and called names for their faith and they're like what the heck did i get myself into what's the james one club James is preparing Christians for suffering.

They're spread out everywhere.

He says, consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.

Then there's this line, let endurance have its perfect result, meaning it's going to do something to you.

So I'll pass the baton over to our fireball preacher.

Yeah, how do people give people some encouragement that are dealing maybe for the first time persecution pushback for being bold for their faith?

Probably with their families, too.

Yeah.

I bet there's a lot of people that their families are looking at them like, oh, you're not really going to become a Christian because of Charlie Kirk, are you?

I bet that's happening.

Yeah, I'm going to become a communist because of AOC.

That's better.

I mean, what kind of comment is that?

I mean,

people,

I think the trouble that we have is that, as human beings, is that I think God made us as relational people and we want to be in community with people.

But the problem is...

We're so concerned about people pleasing that we seek the approval of people rather than the approval of God.

And we were designed to

look to God for our worth and our value, not to the applause of our friends and our followers.

And we live in a culture that has just steeped us in that, that we're so soaked in it, we're absolutely intoxicated with people giving us thumbs up and high fives and attaboy and way to go.

And if people turn on us, cancel us,

we're just crushed.

Our little mini kingdoms just fall apart.

And so

I would say that what we need to do is recognize that

if we really are

who God says we are, if we are made in his image, we have been set free from sin, we've been filled with his spirit, we've been reconciled to God, restored to our mission, and through the gospel, all things can be made new, then my goodness, I've got a reason to live.

And I've got to have

the ability to be rejected by people.

And when you see people like Charlie who model that for us, or the Apostle Paul, who models that for us, or Costi, who models that for us, or Ali Beth, who models that for us, and others throughout history, you say, let's go.

I mean, when you watch, why do we watch Braveheart over and over and over?

How many times have you seen it?

How many times are you going to watch The Patriot?

Why do we do that?

Because these are people who faced pressure at great cost to themselves, but they were driven by their convictions and by their faith in ultimate things that matter.

And this gives us reason to live.

I want to share one quick story.

And this is the story of an Asian saint in the year 400.

AD.

His name is Telemachus.

And he traveled to Rome and went to see the gladiatorial games in the Colosseum.

And when he walked in and saw that these men were killing each other for sport to the wild enthusiasm of the entertained audience, he was horrified.

Something rose up within him, both anger and compassion for these people, that he leapt into the arena itself and demanded, pleaded with the fighters to stop their killing.

And the audience was enraged that he interrupted their entertainment and they had they stoned him themselves right on the spot.

And the sand soaked up Telemachus's blood.

But the emperor Flavius Honorius was so rattled, so shaken to the core by this Christian man's compassion and his

that he ended the gladiatorial games forever.

They were banned and they never came back.

His courage and his death was a turning point in Rome.

And I believe Charlie is a modern-day Telemachus, and his death is a turning point in America.

Wow.

Amen.

What a perfect note to end on.

Kirk Cameron, thank you so much.

Thank you for bringing it.

And thank you to the Lord for speaking through all of these people.

The gospel has been shared.

God has been glorified today.

Thank you for being a part of it, Kirk.

Amen.

Thank you.

Appreciate all of you.

Keep up the great work.

Likewise.

Thank you.

Goes quick.

It really does.

That was fun.

Thank you for preaching the gospel.

Thank you all for having me.

Thank you for discipleship.

You are the perfect person to be here, Allie.

And

thank you for your faithful friendship to Charlie and to the turning point.

And we'll see you again soon.

Yes.

Thanks so much, everybody.

We'll talk to you tomorrow.