Charlie's Last Interview

My name is Charlie Kirk.

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Here I am.

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Buckle up, everybody.

Here we go.

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I have enjoyed being a founder and meeting other founders.

And when I meet other founders, I love hearing their stories.

And I think that in every founder's story, there's something that you can glean to say, am I doing things as good as I could be?

And so one of the things that I found as I met Charlie, and this is the first time we've met actually in person, was that you're an entrepreneur, that you have this entrepreneurial journey that I don't think a lot of people would realize that I didn't even realize.

And because I've been an entrepreneur for 28 years, Charlie, a little bit longer than maybe you.

Yeah.

But

as I've looked back at the past 28 years, I still think about the different inflection points I've had in my career and all the things that I learned at those different inflection points.

You're, I think, years ahead of where I was.

But I still have learned a ton from just talking to you a little bit.

But before we jump into our entrepreneurial journey and share with a room full of entrepreneurs and executives, Charlie,

we're both Chicagoans.

Where are you from?

And what's your story in Chicago?

Yeah, I'm from Wheeling, Arlington Heights area.

Arlington Heights.

Yeah, so I'm El Gym.

Yeah, so Brian's here.

He's a big Vikings fan.

It's just this whole thing.

And so

it's a tough week.

Tough week.

It was a tough week.

I think it was a last minute.

Thanks for reminding me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hey, listen, I'm a Bears fan in the back as well.

But

yeah, you grew up in Chicago.

You're not in Chicago now, though, Charlie.

No, in Arizona.

In Arizona.

So whoever runs Hash Kitchen,

we have pumped a lot of money into your enterprise.

So, and we'll continue to do so.

Great.

Well run.

I didn't even know you guys had Hash Kitchen.

You have these, I think these Bloody Marys that have this big.

Yeah.

It's like you walk in, it's like half the size of your head.

You don't eat your tour.

You're going to get your breakfast after that.

Yeah.

But no, Scottsdale is in a great place.

We've built a lot of restaurants in Scottsdale and in the Arizona air market.

It's great.

And Hash is great.

But you live there.

You're married.

Yep.

Two kids.

Married and two kids.

So you're doing the the father-figure thing and it's hard, right?

It's a lot, especially as an entrepreneur, right?

There's

practices that we have to sustain to keep it all together, such as honoring the Sabbath, which is really big in our family, just resting for one day.

Because as you know, working just for seven days straight, you'll burn yourself and your organization out if you do that.

Yeah, it's interesting because we're in an industry where you go seven days a week.

Predominantly, right?

And there are some very big brands that have done it where they've taken off Sunday.

We have some brands.

Chick-fil-A.

Chick-fil-A, yeah.

And we have some brands ourselves that are off on some Sundays.

I actually think that we all should do what Italy does, and that is take the whole month of August off.

Should we do that?

Who's in, who wants to do that?

Because I want to do that.

It makes up for the whole year.

Yeah, it makes up for the whole year.

I think we should do that.

But

did you ever see yourself here, though?

Like, go back to when you were in Arlington Heights and you're like, I'm going to be an entrepreneur.

I'm going to build a thriving business, which I don't think a lot of people understand.

You have a lot of different business events that you're doing.

And it's not just events, it's actually business investments and initiatives as well.

And that's what was surprising to me: you're a true, full-blown entrepreneur.

Did you ever see yourself here?

Well, not exactly.

It's been kind of

an interesting journey.

But no, look, what I've always been someone who has been into building stuff, and especially whether it be brands or businesses.

And

one thing I think that people don't quite grasp is that we have a thousand employees in what we do.

You know, we have a very successful for-profit entity, a very successful non-for-profit entity, you know, well over $140 million in revenue now.

A year, incredible, which in our space is a lot of money.

Right.

And so, yeah, look, I love finding problems and solving them, which is what an entrepreneur at its core actually is.

And I love building teams.

I myself know my skill set.

Managing is not one of them, you know, managing people day to day, but I'm really good at trying to find a vision, put forward exactly how we're going to get there, and then being kind of that life force.

And as an entrepreneur, I find this especially with founders.

Founders are rarely good day-to-day managers.

Sometimes they are, but the one thing the founder has is that spark and that relentless drive to go to the next location or to the next interval.

And what I have found is that that is a rarity.

And a lot of times, where sometimes my team is like, Charlie, why do you keep on pushing?

It's like, that's just who I am.

It's like, we have to grow.

We have to expand.

I'm sure, you know, same thing.

Same DNA.

And understand, as founders and executives and as entrepreneurs,

you're in a genetic rarity, literally, literally, because most of the world just kind of wants to keep things the same.

And it's our job to push them and to give them the vision and to instill them exactly what success looks like in them, what success looks like.

So I love building stuff.

I have some other fun entrepreneurial stuff we're actually going to announce later this year.

So that's a little bit of a tease.

I know that you're a little bit of a developer, too.

You like a little bit of

development?

Land, private, you know, investments.

I just can't, you know, sit still.

Can't sit still.

Some crypto, some also.

Everybody's got crypto.

Oh, yeah.

That's trust me.

I know.

But I have no recommendations of any coins.

But no, all kidding aside, though, I love the free market.

I love actually playing and participating in it.

And I also just love finding if there is problems that people need to be solved.

And that's kind of been part of my life's work.

Yeah, I feel the same as an entrepreneur over all these years, too, Charlie.

I've thought, you know, what is the spark?

I've been the founder.

You've been the founder of your organization.

And when I have invested into all these different brands now with Savory, one of the things that's interesting is when we meet with a founder and the founder is like, well, we want to do a transaction with Savory and we want to go retire.

We're always not, we're out.

And the reason why we bow out of that is because they are the spark.

And I think that they're still so important for that culture of that business for many, many years past.

Now, when the brand is thousands of units and it's Chipotle, I don't think that people care as much about who the founder was.

But when you're in the realm that all of us are in, which is call it two to 20 or a little bit beyond, I feel like it really is important.

That spark is interesting.

Yeah, no, it's incredibly important.

And also, you as the founder and everyone in this room that has started something or is running something, you have an obligation to be the hardest working person in that entity and to set the tone and set the pace.

Nothing collapses an organization quicker than when either the founder during growth mode.

Now, during sustained mode is different, but during growth mode, the founder is noticeably working less and putting less time in than the team.

That is a recipe for catastrophe.

And that happens when you get a lot of outside money sometimes into a business where the founder hasn't really had to earn it and has had a ton of outside investors or private equity money.

And they're like, oh, you know, I'll just kind of work a nine-to-five, but you guys have to stay till 8 p.m.

or not.

That creates dissension and obviously inevitable collapse.

But also, it's more than just the hours worked.

It's the founder has this original and initial vision of exactly where he or she wants to see this business go or this entity go.

And that's honestly what makes this country so unique.

I mean, I just visited South Korea and Japan this last weekend, you know, nice weekend trip.

You know, let's go to

Tokyo.

You know,

that's easy to get to.

There's so many beautiful things about those countries.

They're clean, they're orderly, they're polite.

But honestly, like, they don't understand the word entrepreneur at all.

No, I was trying to explain it to them.

They're like, well, what do you mean?

Like, you start different businesses.

Like, in their culture, you do a job, you do it for 30 years, you do it super well, and that is your duty.

And they do, and by the way, it's incredibly appealing in a lot of ways, but there is a

dynamism that's missing, right?

There's kind of this energy and this

uniqueness that we have in this country.

I mean, you go to continental Europe right now, which is actually economically not done very well last 15 years and we've done very well considerably entrepreneurship is largely dying across continental europe right maybe if you have like one restaurant maybe if you have like one brand but this idea of scaling and pushing and like the italian tax code cannot grasp the idea of losing money to grow a business like it's an income they're like wait what do you mean you're gonna lose money

like that you only businesses only exist exist to make money like well no you're gonna lose it to boost the valuation

and to grow it and the point being is that um we as entrepreneurs, everyone in this room, I think it's one of the things that makes this country so exceptional and important because it creates new wealth.

It's new risk in the marketplace.

And it delivers for the consumer and the customer and the citizen

new ideas.

better products.

And it's that constant competition is always refining us towards a better version of success.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I was going to say, I will speak for everybody in the room.

I think that we would like some employees to just work for a year.

Would we like just one year straight with like every employee that works for a year?

No, you want the the japanese bus driver who's been there since he was 23 wears a full suit

with white gloves and he's like 81 he's been doing it he's like yes thank you so much that would be so great at one of your brands right not the three-month turnover like i want to go find myself in a trailer in alaska that's right

that's right i've not i've never heard that one charlie

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I think as entrepreneur, and I could answer this too, but I really want to get your take on this.

But what is the biggest sacrifice that

you would underestimated being an entrepreneur?

I know mine.

This is a good thing.

This is so cliche.

So I apologize, guys.

Like everyone is.

But honestly, repetition to the soul of memory.

But if you want to be a good entrepreneur, I learned this like five or six years ago.

You have to be so clear on how you spend your time.

And your time really is your most valuable resource.

And that, that, I mean, I managed my day down to the five or six minute interval, right?

It's okay.

I'll be able to do that call.

And this is how long it takes to go into the car.

And that, especially when you are in growth mode, which you and I I are constantly in growth mode, we know nothing but growth.

And that's the other thing as an entrepreneur that I had to learn the hard way.

Know your nature.

Yeah.

Know what you're really good at.

So I always ask my team, I say, does this meeting require patience?

And the answer is yes.

Like, I'm probably not a good person for that meeting, actually.

Like, I will delegate that.

Right.

Like, unless it's absolutely necessary.

If it's like a long, drawn out, like HR meeting, like, I could delegate that.

But if that, if that meeting requires like quick, decisive action, vision casting, problem solving, bring me in.

So you have to know your nature.

And every entrepreneur is different.

By the way, some people in this room might be entrepreneurs that are gifted with patience.

I'm not one of those.

You're right.

Exactly.

I'm kind of like, okay, what's next?

Like, you get to the point.

And so I know my demerits and I know my faults.

And knowing your nature is incredibly important.

And that goes with time as well, which is I find that if I'm enjoying something, I will spend like endless amounts of time and my day will be completely derailed.

So I have to try to put on very strict limits.

And then as an entrepreneur, you have to obviously have very strong spiritual health, whatever that is in your life, very strong, obviously mental health, connection and relational health, and then physical health.

I think I see far too many entrepreneurs.

I could list five in my life that I know that just completely forsake the physical health when they're in growth mode, right?

They're eating terribly.

They're not sleeping.

They're not exercising.

They'll get to it later.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, they'll get to it later.

And

when you're young, that's correct.

But I actually would make an argument.

Not only is it bad for you, obviously, health-wise, but like it actually makes you harder to run that business and to grow that business.

I think that people that are properly prioritizing sleep and properly prioritizing diet

are actually better founders and better entrepreneurs.

And so, but anyway, going back, time management, I find what separates the good from the great entrepreneur is someone that is able to meticulously be able to manage their time.

You know, I was able to spend a lot of time with Elon Musk a year ago, and regardless your opinions of him, he's a phenomenal entrepreneur, right?

Unbelievable founder, like undoubtedly, and arguably, right?

And he's so clear on his time management that he actually handles it himself.

I couldn't do that, but like, he can't even handle the bureaucracy of having like an executive assistant at times.

He's like, nope, I know exactly how much time I must spend on a certain thing, and I will be kind of the guardian of that.

And you think about it, like, time is the equally distributed resource that we have to always be guardians of.

I got to be honest, I don't know how he does that because I could not live without

either.

So, my mind goes in 50 different directions.

Like, I just go here, go there, do this.

It's just, you know, I

couldn't possibly do that.

So, being an entrepreneur, what is the biggest reward so far for you?

Just what have you enjoyed the most?

Look, we've been incredibly successful financially, and I'm super blessed by that.

Our podcast is doing really well.

Our radio show, our social media, it's not the money.

Honestly, it's the journey.

I know that sounds like so cliche.

Like, put that on a bumper sticker, but it's the memories that we've created, kind of the, can you believe how far we've come?

Also,

I did a lot of thinking about this last year.

Like, what is it that really drives me?

I love solving complex problems and doing the things that people say they can actually be solved.

I'm sure you're very similar in that way, which is like, okay, people say that you can't have this kind of a restaurant or you can't have this kind of thing.

Like, well, maybe you can.

Is there a better?

And that is what an entrepreneur at its core is a problem solver against the tide.

That's what it is.

Yeah, it is.

Because again, if it was simple, there would be no reason for entrepreneurs.

Entrepreneurs are people that quit companies while they might be ascending or they're putting on a second mortgage on their home or they're diving into savings or liquidating their 401k.

And I think there's really something admirable about that kind of ambition.

It makes the world a better place.

And so the greatest reward, I'd have to say, is just seeing the journey and seeing, obviously, some of the lives impacted along the way.

Yeah, I agree with that.

And I will say this.

I've been fortunate enough to, Charlie, as an entrepreneur to go through some cycles where I've built a business, sold it, built a business, sold it.

And people have always asked me before, like, what's been the best part?

And I've said, honestly, it is a journey.

So I had the bumper sticker way before you, just so you know.

And in my mind, I thought, you know, I was always excited.

Growing up in Chicago, I always had like this poster in my room and it was a picture of a Ferrari.

And I just remember, I'm like, man, one of these days, Charlie, I'm going to make enough to buy a Ferrari.

And I remember when I bought my first Ferrari having an exit.

And I think a lot of people here that do know me a little bit know that I'm a car guy.

And I remember getting it.

I'm like, this is so cool, right?

First day, I've made it.

And the second day, it was like, that's pretty cool.

And then like two weeks later, I'm like, totally.

Cool.

A month later, Charlie, I was like, it's a car.

And it was so wild to me how anticlimactic and fast that was.

And so when you say say journey, I have a good friend and I think many of you have met her today, but she just went through a business sale as well.

And she's like, man, I'm reminiscing the last 25 years of building my business.

And I feel like I appreciate more the journey of having gotten here than actually have gotten here to where I sold.

And you need to enjoy every day then, therefore,

because the reward is actually the process.

It's the process of solving problems.

And there's a reason why you're on your third fund, Andrew, because after your second or for a second one, like, okay, fine, you could go retire.

Like, okay, that's not what life's about.

it's about value creation it's about pouring into people it's about making people's lives better and i think that's always lost because the outside world that is anti-entrepreneur or at least value neutral and entrepreneur they're like oh it's all about the money i mean look yeah that's that's a way to kind of token part of it it's a way to tokenize and measure your success obviously no one here should be against it but We would all say that it's about the team, too.

I mean, I look at my team.

I'm like, I'll go to war with these guys.

I'm sure you feel the same, right?

Like, put me up against any other competitor and we will crush you because we've been through so much together.

That's right.

You galvanize as a team.

Yes, exactly.

And the memories that are created and the connectivity, right?

That's what life is really about.

At its core, it's about relationships.

And that's what, as an entrepreneur, it's like you don't want to be a lonely entrepreneur.

I learned that.

You don't want to be lonely.

You want people around you.

In fact, if you are a lonely entrepreneur, it's like probably won't work very well, honestly, unless you're an incredible whiz kid engineer that has a gizmo better than anybody else.

But you guys largely in the restaurant space are in the relationship business.

That is are in that business tight margins it's knowing customers names it's knowing your employees you have a tough day bad day you're going through divorce did someone just break up with you like that's what it's all about right and um it's not just about you know maximizing the bottom line which of course is part of it but it's i think i bet everyone in this room would agree that what is the most precious thing you have it's the team it's the human beings that actually make it happen 100 so moving forward to building a lasting brand okay so all of us are trying to build brand we're trying to tell stories we're trying to get you and your family charlie to come to our restaurants.

We've been successful so far.

Okay, good, good, good.

But we want you to keep coming back.

And so how do you build a lasting brand?

What are the table stakes for building a lasting brand in your mind?

So I'm trying to think of how to apply it towards restaurants.

So I'll just probably broaden it.

And you guys, yeah, I mean, look, first of all, don't overcomplicate it.

Don't do cracker barrel.

That would be my first piece of advice.

So if you have a brand that everyone likes, don't change it, right?

So please don't change hash kitchen.

Yeah, we're not going to change it.

It works too well.

So don't do that.

But honestly, when it comes to a brand, it has to be something.

And I'm constantly trying to build brands.

It has to have a missional statement as to why or what you are doing, especially when you're trying to have employees.

That it's not going to just be enough as a job.

They want to feel as if they're part of something and they're building something.

That's something that's really changed the last 30 or 40 years, especially when you're adding kind of younger employees.

But look, the cliche stuff, you know, building on social media, building on digital media, all that stuff matters.

But even beyond that, like building a brand that will last and that will be durable, it needs to be connected towards the founder's energy and vision.

And sometimes, honestly, if you're at like a couple dozen locations, it's okay if the founder is associated with that brand.

If I think about the local restaurants that are not scaled, I know the owner of those restaurants.

And I go to them because I'm treated well.

And I know that he's in the kitchen constantly hawking the quality.

And it's definitionally like not just corporatized.

And so when you're trying to build a a brand, one of the hardest things for an entrepreneur, and we have not done this successfully yet, is separating the brand from the founder.

It's very, very hard.

I'm not convinced you have to do that, though.

No, I don't think so.

Right.

I mean, I maybe, again, like you get to a Chipotle, to your point, or you get to an in-and-out burger.

Like, okay, eventually.

But honestly, I would argue it kind of happens naturally at that point, right?

Yeah, it does.

But I wouldn't, I don't think like the kind of...

doctrinaire corporate approach is, well, you know, I'm a private equity investor and we're investing in this restaurant and we need to to make sure it's not too reliant on the founder i get that but honestly i don't think that's necessary i don't either in fact i think it actually might be unhealthy if that entrepreneur is the is the face on social media is the one that could best describe it that can best sell it to investors and to bankers and to future customers for sure right um and so i i i as it comes to a corporate i think that there is an inescapable bond between the entrepreneur and the brand that i think that far too often the experts in the corporate world want to try to separate and actually don't think that should happen as much.

I agree.

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So, in building a brand, then too, let's go a little further with that.

And that is, in our industry,

we love having someone like Ovation.

They're one of our tech partners, and we get feedback immediately.

So, you go into a hash kitchen or into any of our counterparts here at the restaurants, and you leave, and you're like, oh, this wasn't really good.

And you hit, ah, that wasn't a good experience.

Or you get people to throw comments on Yelp or you get people to go out and start talking negatively about you in the industry.

It's hard for us because we're trying to build a brand, Charlie.

And so how have you, because I'm sure that you've received some of this in your business as well.

You have no haters.

No, no.

None of us do.

We're all here perfect.

We have no haters.

No criticism.

Nothing but supporters.

How do we all learn from taking opposition and criticism?

Actually, I have a quick question for you.

No, ask me.

How seriously do you guys take Yelp and all that?

As a customer, you never know because I write these screeds against some of these restaurants, not Sicilian Butcher.

But how seriously do you guys take that?

I think that it is

a lagging indicator of how we're doing, not leading.

I do think it's something that we look at because we have to.

There's not a lot of different ways to know how you're doing.

I feel like all of us, and maybe I can't see a lot of you guys, by the way, just like the first two rows, but how many of you guys in here rely on Google more than Yelp?

You see the hands.

So Google, probably more.

I think Yelp, I think we all think that it's actually a hidden mafia somewhere and that they just want the negative.

And so I think I also think there's some fake stuff on Yelp.

I'm wrong.

I think you would all agree with that, too.

That there's some.

Do you think your competitors are planting bad comments?

I think that's it.

That's what we've wondered, right?

I want to get to the bottom of it.

Yeah, we want to get to the bottom.

Once you get to the bottom of it, let us all know.

We want to know.

But either way,

I've always been curious about that.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's important for us.

And so you're right.

Like you get, as founders, as Savory and our team, we look at people having bad experience after bad experience.

It's good to see that and go, we need to address this, this, and this within the business.

But how do you take it and then just as a team to not let it melt you down and turn that opposition or criticism into a stream?

Yeah, look, first of all, all feedback is an opportunity to get better, right?

And at least in my business and what I do, anytime someone has negative feedback, I personally see it through to make sure that it's addressed.

And I do it like aggressively.

I do it really fast.

And I do it involving the parties and the actors that were responsible.

So it's a learning lesson so it never happens again, right?

So we run these big events.

20,000 people show up.

It's the biggest events we've won in Phoenix.

And if someone has a bad experience, I go straight to the events director.

I say, what is the reason of this?

Like, why did it happen?

You're going to refund the money and we're going to make sure it never happens again.

So it then becomes a standard operating procedure improvement, not just like, hey, can you make sure this is handled?

And sometimes it turns out that person is wacky.

And they are finding something wrong.

You've all experienced this as restaurant owners and operators.

Somebody's just looking for something wrong and the pancakes were perfect and they're still looking for something, right?

And but they weren't perfect enough.

But you can tell, this is what's really important.

You guys have a good antenna as founders, a legitimate piece of feedback and an illegitimate piece of feedback, right?

And that when that legitimate piece of feedback comes through, you need to personally usher that through the process because it's easy to just delegate it and be like, ah, you know, that's just an outlier.

But think about it.

If one out of 100 people are not going to return and you scale that over a course of five years, guys, that's your margins, right?

Yeah.

Especially in the restaurant business, right?

The restaurant business is built on recurring customers over over periods of time.

It's very much on the returning customers.

So for us, it's not dissimilar, right?

We run these events.

If 20,000 became 17,000, that's a big deal.

That's a big deal.

That's a big deal, right?

That's kind of eats away at the margins and the core of what we do.

So as far as like sustaining the brand, though, you want to try to be ahead of it, right?

And this is where I think founders and entrepreneurs should never be disconnected from the lived experience of what you are trying to actually present forward.

And so that means you guys should continually make sure you are eating the food that you are serving to make sure that it's still good.

It's the greatest way to do it.

I'm sure you teach your entrepreneurs and your managers all the time.

And I eat at all in my restaurants.

How do I apply this to my life or to us?

I make our event managers go as attendees to our own events for a couple hours, go sit in the chair.

Is the audio good?

Is the acoustics good?

Are they getting into the room quickly?

Is it too hot?

You know, like you have to

go through that kind of lived experience.

And we do surveys, we do feedback, but all that I think is a a bunch of rubbish.

Honestly, nothing gets close to the actual, like, tangible living through sitting in the booth at the restaurant.

And then, yeah, I'll just repeat what I said.

It is very tempting.

And I go through this all the time as a founder, as an entrepreneur, when I receive negative feedback to do two things, to either take it personally or to dismiss it.

It takes, took time for me to be like, look, great opportunity to be better.

That's not natural because you get defensive.

Like, what do you mean you didn't like the bloody marriage, married, right?

You know, but okay, let me think about this.

Is there a way we do it?

And then you can use prudence to be able to navigate.

Yeah, that's actually a very powerful one.

That is, you got to go through some, probably, some exercises to get there.

It takes time, it takes mentorship.

And that's, again, going from good to great.

Yeah, it is.

Good to great.

You look at feedback as an opportunity to upgrade and to turbocharge, not just to either get bitter or to dismiss and act as if nothing is wrong.

That's right.

Even though the statement, I got to be honest, feedback is a gift.

I know it is, but when someone says that to me, I want to punch them out yeah but not all feedback is you have to use prudence and wisdom to know like okay this is just a person that literally complains for a living right they want a free meal they want a free airline ticket but there's also you could tell somebody that writes like a very thoughtful letter you know i was ignored a couple times this and that like okay you know this is something that we need to take care of for sure so last few questions here um appreciate the time lessons from leading employees.

I mean, you have over a thousand Gen Zs.

We employ.

Yeah, we employ a lot of Gen Z.

I could teach a masterclass on that.

Okay, well, tell us a two-minute masterclass on just teaching and leading those Gen Z.

Okay, so

if in the ideal world you have a clear set of articulated values for your company that is no more than one page, maybe two pages, and in the onboarding process of onboarding a Gen Zer, you not just recite it, you get buy-in as to what those values are.

We show up on time around here.

We tell the truth.

We don't blame people for our problems, right?

We always try to find a way to make things better, right?

You do not bring your personal life into the workplace, right?

Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba.

While you are onboarding them, you don't just do it.

You say, hey, do you have any problem with this?

Tell me your feedback.

You involve them in that value process.

You get them to co-sign it, not just in some procedural way, but to have them have real buy-in.

Why does that matter?

You have now established a standard of conduct that when they break it, like, hey guys, remember in that onboarding three months ago, you said you're not going to bring your personal life into business?

Well, you just did that.

So let's talk about why you did that.

You need to live up to the standard.

This is probably always been true in corporate life.

It is so enormously important for Gen Z because they have a tendency to try to make that there's no like work-life separation.

And it they also will cry injustice sometimes for something that you think is a normal operating corporate business practice that they need to be reminded to in clear detail.

So you can have like the 10 commandments of savory brands or whatever it is, right?

And that process, then there's no wiggle room or excuse.

And what it is, it needs to be publicly displayed, right?

It needs to be everywhere when you come into work, when you come out of work.

So there's no mystery.

And again, it can't be 100.

It shouldn't be 50.

Honestly, you could capture a lot in 10, like tell the truth, don't complain, you blah, blah, blah.

And again, if there's a problem, they're like, I don't think you're a good fit here anymore because you're not living up to the standard that you already agreed to.

Yeah, that's great.

Right.

And then you have to live by it.

And here is the key.

Your managers and your leaders must also live by those rules.

You will have a schism in your organization if the managers are living by a separate code.

Now, they can have different privileges, but they cannot have different principles.

I actually agree with that.

Right?

Privileges being is okay, they can come a little later, they can have a company car, but they can't lie.

No.

Right?

They can't do one thing.

And like, so privileges and principles are two different things.

So for us, it's work, it's worked very, very well.

Yes, phenomenal.

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I'm going to shift because we're out of time, but I want to hear from you.

You're obviously in some rooms that none of us are in, but we are all, I think all of us are going into a budgeting season.

So we're talking about 2026.

And you know, in 2024, Charlie, we sat down and with all of our different brands and management, we said, we think this is going to happen in 2025 and this is going to happen.

A lot of it didn't happen, right?

Like this year has been a little bit more tumultuous than I think a lot of us have experienced in the past and also that we probably plan for.

Give us some guidance as to what you're hearing and thinking about the economy itself going into 26 and how should we budget our career or budget our businesses so that we're safe in our career.

Please, anything I say here, guys, take with an enormous grain of salt.

Please have it be one data point and a factor of many.

Last thing I want to tell you is the economy is great.

You guys open five new locations and

they close and I have a

we're going to send you some Yelps.

Oh, I think you guys will do more than that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But look, I happen to be very long-term bullish on the American economy for many reasons, not just psychologically.

Just as a side note, I think in reminding your workers that their tax are not tipped up to a certain amount and their overtime is not tipped now, I think is a very interesting potential morale boost that you can tell to your workers.

Let me tell you why I'm bullish.

I'm bullish because after traveling the world, both to Europe and Asia, they are all looking to America and they are telling me as a traveler, the American economy is the best.

We want to put money into America.

We want to buy American securities.

We want to buy American real estate.

That's amongst the ruling class and the investor class of these other countries.

Secondly, I think that there is a massive massive pent-up economic boom that's waiting to happen around artificial intelligence that is going to reverberate positively throughout the entire economy.

I think it will make your businesses more efficient.

I think you'll be able to better analyze data.

I don't think, honestly, if we're doing this five years from now, I think we'll left be like, we used to look at Yelp.

AI is now better able to synthesize, you know, a hundred different receipt transactions in an hour and we could tell whether or not they had a good experience or bad experience.

Like, I think the way that we analyze data and it guides your businesses is going to completely change and it will make you more profitable.

It'll make your businesses better and more attractive.

And so if I were to give you a piece of advice you should take, embrace AI wholeheartedly in every way you possibly can, because if not, you will, it's the same people that didn't embrace the steam engine, okay?

You will be, or the, oh, what's that internet thing?

You know, I don't need that.

I'm just running a, you know, a restaurant.

So I highly encourage that.

I think rates are going to go down.

I was talking to a major, major multi-trillion dollar fund manager the other day, and he says their data shows the American economy is a lot better than even the Fed thinks it is.

So I happen to be a very optimistic person.

I think that there is probably going to be a market correction at some point.

I think that publicly traded securities are vastly overvalued, largely because money doesn't know where to go right now.

So it just keeps on going into these high,

insane, multiple, you know, the same six companies, the NVIDIA, Google, Microsoft that just keep on there.

But the actual like brass tax, consumer sentiment is actually okay.

Consumer spending is remaining strong.

If there were some pitfalls of where the economy is, housing remains to be a big problem.

However, shelter inflation hasn't gone up too much since January.

But the last thing I'll say is this, is the more I spend in the economy, both as an analyst and actually as a participant, the more I realize that so much of this is psychological, that if people believe things will be better, they will be better.

You guys are the top, like the biggest one-to-one correlation of that statement that I could imagine.

I agree with that.

Either people eat out because they think things are good or they do not think things are good, right?

And so I would say that the more that we can cheerlead the economy, the better.

And the more that we can say that it's good, the more that it will be good.

I would much rather be the United States than continental Europe right now.

I would much rather be the United States than a lot of these other countries.

I think there might be some one or two minor corrections, but we have every possible asset.

I think that we're going to see better energy prices.

I think we're going to see more capital deployment.

Also, guys, if you're going to go to more, if you guys are going to be building more, you know, whatever it is, convection office, whatever it is, there's 100% depreciation coming back in the tax code here, which is huge.

And heavy machinery discounts.

I don't know how that applies to your businesses, but I imagine it's pretty good, right?

And so eventually you're going to see this thing pop where there are so many incentives based on this latest tax bill that I think will be enormously positive.

And if the no tax on tips and no tax on overtime actually does end up materializing into demand-driven parts of the economy, there'll be more people that have more money in their pockets that will spend it more in restaurants, right?

So again, don't take this to the bank, but generally, I am investing like a bull.

I, especially a long-term bull, a five, 10-year long-term optimist.

I think that we have such incredible assets.

And the last thing is like, I talked to entrepreneurs.

They still are in growth mode.

They're in problem-solving mode.

And I think as long as we keep that kind of mindset and that psychology, I think we're going to be at a very, very good place.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Last question.

What is a quote that you live by?

Boy, a quote that I live by.

I'm a big, I'm a Christian.

I wear it on my sleeve.

So quotes would always probably always be Bible verses.

This is a, I'll give you two.

One is actually not in the Bible.

It's more mythological.

And one is actually in the Bible.

The first is not in the Bible.

It's this too shall pass, which was actually, people think it's in the Bible.

It's not.

But it's King Solomon's phrase, which is really amazing when you think about it, because it's good no matter what season of life that you're in.

If you're going through the worst of times, this too shall pass, and things are going to get better.

If you're going through the best of times, though, it's really humbling.

Like this too shall pass and this will fade away because this will not last forever.

So I love that.

Yeah, exactly.

So it's a

time-transcendent truth that applies towards all periods as an entrepreneur.

It humbles you when you need it.

It builds you up when you need it.

It gives you hope when you need it.

It also gives you a little bit of a dose of a gut check.

One of my favorite verses, though, is Romans 8, 28, which it says that God works all things for good for those who love him.

It's a very freeing and liberating verse for those of us that are Christians because we believe that when things can be really bad, God is working it for his good, his perfect and pleasing will, which is a very, very hard teaching when you come across business closures or staff layoffs.

But it's very liberating that God is working all things towards an ultimate good.

So I love that.

And it kind of is very freeing that I don't have to be in charge of everything.

And there is a God and I am not him.

And I surrender to his will.

I appreciate that.

My quote, I'm going to share it with you.

Is that okay?

Yes, please.

Is from Epictetus.

And it's, if you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.

The original stoic.

Yes.

He was a former slave that became a stoic.

Yeah.

And I love it just because as entrepreneurs and all of us here building businesses, we are pretty foolish.

It's very, very hard.

But you have to be content in the fact that we've signed up for this, that we are showing up every day to battle through it.

And so all I'd like to leave everybody here with is stay the course.

Be smart.

Stay positive.

I like that you have a positive outlook on the economy.

I do too.

We're investing like...

crazy right now into the market.

Don't do it because I told you.

No, no, no.

We were doing it before, but this year and even next year.

But I appreciate you sharing some of your wisdom.

And you're obviously in circles that we're not.

And so, thank you for sharing some of the things that you're seeing and you're hearing.

And thank you for sharing your entrepreneurial journey.

I think that all of us learn from each other, even if we have differences, by elevating each other.

So thanks for being here today.

Thank you guys for watching.

Thank you, Committee.

Thank you so much.

For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.