Where We Got "Woke Church": Charlie and Nathan Finochio at Freedom Night in America

Speaker 1 My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.
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Speaker 1 Thank you, everybody. Thank you.
My intro will be quite short today. We're going to get straight to the conversation.
By the way, you just saw the greatest height differential in Dream City history.

Speaker 1 That record will never be broken. We have an amazing guest.
Don't let the appearance fool you. This guy's a master theologian.
He's going to blow you away.

Speaker 1 I'm going to be here all the way up until we get to q a as soon as we get to q a i'm gonna actually do a line change with lucas miles who runs tpsa faith because i i have an opportunity to go speak at multiple churches in south korea and japan this weekend um to bring god's word to asia and so i got to go catch a flight to asia uh and so but i'm gonna be here for most of the night i just want to say that uh when i dash out you guys know that um i'm doing my best to spread god's word all across the planet but everybody nathan here the reason i love nathan is he is as biblical as scriptural as it gets, but he kind of like walks into a room and people immediately thinks he's a woke pastor.

Speaker 1 Don't let appearances fool you. You'll see what I mean.
Nathan, come on out here, the gludgendary Nathan Pinocchio.

Speaker 1 So Nathan, welcome to Phoenix.

Speaker 2 Thank you. It's good to be here.

Speaker 1 So Nathan, why don't you introduce yourself?

Speaker 1 You are in the kind of the midst of a battle for the American church right now, and you're fighting deconstructionism, you're fighting all this wokeism, and you really understand where it comes from.

Speaker 1 Please introduce yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I'm a Canadian.

Speaker 2 Don't hold that against me.

Speaker 2 I'm so happy to be here. Pastor Tommy, you're an idol for me in the best way.
I don't mean in a negative way.

Speaker 2 And it's just a privilege to be here. Yeah, my dad's a pastor in Canada.

Speaker 2 He just turned his church over after decades of amazing service.

Speaker 2 I went to Bible college in Portland, Oregon.

Speaker 2 Youth pastored for my dad for a couple years. Then I moved to New York and was a part of a church there.
When I was in New York, I had this idea.

Speaker 2 What if we made Bible college cheap, or affordable rather,

Speaker 2 but awesome?

Speaker 2 And not woke.

Speaker 2 One of the concerns that I've had with a lot of Bible colleges is that it trends very liberal and progressive.

Speaker 2 And so we created this platform called Theos View and it's like 10 bucks a month. We have hundreds of trainers on there that teach.
We're conservative. We're unapologetically

Speaker 2 theologically conservative. And we all believe in the gifts and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 2 I'm a dying little Pentecostal, I'm sorry, but it is what it is.

Speaker 1 You don't have to apologize. This is what I love about Freedom Night.
We have five-point Calvinists and swinging from the Chandelier Pentecostals, and we all love Jesus here.

Speaker 1 And Nathan, so why is it that the church the last decade especially has become so woke? Define the term. Where does it come from, and why is it happening?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so defining woke, I guess, is a, that's like juggling

Speaker 2 eight balls. But I think

Speaker 2 it's not something that's happened in the last 10 years. It's probably something that's happened in the last 150 years.

Speaker 2 It began with the Enlightenment and people questioning the word the way that Satan did, and

Speaker 2 then kind of twisting it the way that Satan did, and sort of removing all of its power, you know, doubting the miracles.

Speaker 2 You know, you end up with, when you start to tear the miracles out of the Bible, you end up with just the maps.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the maps aren't all that helpful.

Speaker 2 And then I think there's a major shift in the church about 40 years ago, maybe 30 years ago, with the seeker-sensitive movement, which I think started in a good place where it was, we want to reach more people.

Speaker 2 But my dad's generation, my dad was a 17-year-old when he met Jesus through a teen challenge coffee house. And he was a drugged-out hippie.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he he got filled with the Holy Spirit and he went to a Pentecostal church and he got super involved there and his life just completely changed and he experienced Jesus.

Speaker 2 You know, it's one thing to know about Jesus. It's another thing to experience Jesus.
And so the church that my dad was raised in was a church where like, how do we get God to come to church?

Speaker 2 But it's almost like it switched a number of years ago where it was, how do we get people to come to church? And for me, I think that has been a Trojan horse because when

Speaker 2 all you're thinking about is how do I please this person in the pew and not how do I please the Lord, you're going to have problems.

Speaker 2 And it's a giant setup, you know, for inviting all kinds of bad doctrines.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would, the best way to explain woke to your friends is call something unfair or unjust until you control it. So call something racist till you're in charge.

Speaker 1 So call something sexist till you're in charge. And it's a means to power.

Speaker 1 So wokeism is a lot of things in particular. One, though, that you've really been able to pinpoint, Nathan, brilliantly is deconstructionism.

Speaker 1 So deconstructionism, everybody, is unfortunately growing in a lot of seminaries. It's this idea that we need to take apart the essence of the Word of God.

Speaker 1 That we need to ask, did God really say that? Is that really what the Word says?

Speaker 1 Basically, challenging biblical authority and scriptural inerrancy using the same analytical tools that they use on American history, that they use on American founding documents. So, what,

Speaker 1 for example, we don't like the 1619 project, right? We don't like CRT, and we've, you know, we fought against that, but those same analytical tools are now used in Christian schools.

Speaker 1 Explain more, Nathan.

Speaker 2 That's really good.

Speaker 2 Thank you. That was really good.
Just taking notes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, essentially,

Speaker 2 you know, Marxism kind of comes in and people buy into that.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 everything is about power and everything's about these power plays. And so we have people that are swimming in this stuff.
They come into our churches.

Speaker 2 And so when they read the Bible, they don't, they're not reading the Bible as the authoritative word of God. They're problematizing the Bible.

Speaker 2 And then we start to realize, I'll give you a great example.

Speaker 2 And every deconstructing influencer that I follow on Instagram, because I follow them to learn what they're saying and stuff, they all basically do the same thing.

Speaker 2 They love hippie Jesus, and they hate the Apostle Paul.

Speaker 2 And so it's

Speaker 1 really interesting.

Speaker 2 Keep going. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So their version of Jesus, and they kind of collapse Jesus too, because the truth of the matter is that if you read Jesus in the book of John, I mean, he'll cut you, he'll pull the switchblade out.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? He's like,

Speaker 2 he's not always carrying a lamb, you know, like

Speaker 2 he'll pour some

Speaker 2 web, literally.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 Exactly. He pours a little crowd center out every now and then, you know, and people walk away.

Speaker 2 You know, the rich young ruler, he's like, you know, he's like, how do I, how do I, well, you, you know, money has a control on your life, and you're going to need to get rid of it.

Speaker 2 And he just walks away. I mean, today's pastor, if I was a pastor today, I'd chase him and invite him to a kingdom builder's breakfast.
You know,

Speaker 2 Jesus,

Speaker 2 we're having John Maxwell next Sunday come.

Speaker 2 I love John Maxwell, by the way.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying, like, Jesus just let these people walk.

Speaker 2 So my thought is

Speaker 2 you can't pit, you know, scripture against scripture. And Jesus,

Speaker 2 they have these collapsed 2D versions of Jesus that, you know, the Jesus that calls you to deny yourself and pick up your cross and follow follow him doesn't exist.

Speaker 2 It's just Jesus that's the socialist Jesus.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 they say

Speaker 2 everything is through

Speaker 2 their Marxist binaries. So Jesus did this for these types of people.
Jesus did this for these types of people.

Speaker 2 And then pitting Jesus against the rest of Scripture.

Speaker 1 And this is how you know Jesus is the savior of the world, because everyone wants to claim him.

Speaker 1 The communists want him. Even the Muslims want him.

Speaker 1 Everyone wants Jesus.

Speaker 1 Mind you, we don't want any of their stuff. We don't want Muhammad.
We don't want Marx.

Speaker 1 We're good. We got Jesus.

Speaker 1 But they know there's something about Jesus that is special, unique, extraordinary, transcendent, and divine. And that's a very important thing.

Speaker 1 Almost every sinister movement in the history of the planet has tried to claim Jesus as their own.

Speaker 1 And that's because there's something there.

Speaker 3 We're honored to be partnering with Alan Jackson Ministries. And today, I want to point you to their podcast.
It's called Culture and Christianity, the Allen Jackson Podcast.

Speaker 3 What makes it unique is Pastor Allen's biblical perspective.

Speaker 3 He takes the truth from the Bible and applies it to issues we're facing today, gender confusion, abortion, immigration, Doge, Trump in the White House, issues in the church.

Speaker 3 He doesn't just discuss the problems. In every episode, he gives practical things we can do to make a difference.
His guests have incredible expertise and powerful testimonies.

Speaker 3 They've been great friends. And now you can hear from Charlie in his own words.

Speaker 1 Each episode will make you recognize the power of your faith and how God can use your life to impact our world today. The Culture and Christianity podcast is informative and encouraging.

Speaker 1 You can find it on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any episodes.

Speaker 1 Alan Jackson Ministries is working hard to bring biblical truth back into our culture. You can find out more about Pastor Allen and the ministry at alanjackson.com forward slash Charlie.

Speaker 1 But, Nathan, let's go a step deeper. How How does deconstructionism manifest? How can people start to spot it?

Speaker 1 When either maybe in a Christian podcast or in a sermon, I can give an example and then you can.

Speaker 1 Well, they'll start to be like, well, we don't really need the Old Testament to understand the New Testament. That's a phenomenon that might be growing.

Speaker 1 Or they'll try to apply modern secular humanist worldview.

Speaker 1 onto scripture. And if you listen carefully, you'll realize that they're imposing their own modern values over scripture, not submitting to God's God's word.

Speaker 2 Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2 Like I said, like the first thing for me,

Speaker 2 when somebody starts to pit Jesus against Paul, right there you have a deconstructionist. They all do it.
That's their favorite thing to do.

Speaker 2 They like to make Jesus out to be, for example, there's this one lady I followed on Twitter, and she believed that Jesus came, you know,

Speaker 2 he was there

Speaker 2 to liberate people and to free people from oppression. That was the big thing.
And so I began to just ask her more questions.

Speaker 2 You know, like, if Jesus was a liberator and he was against oppression, he didn't do a very good job, did he?

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Like, and as I began to question her

Speaker 2 more about this, you know, for example, like she would make this claim, like, Jesus elevated, you know, women. And I'm like, he certainly did.
He certainly elevated women.

Speaker 2 But I just said, like, well, you know, Judas disappeared. You know, that was a great chance for Jesus to make women an apostle.
And he didn't.

Speaker 2 So don't you have a bone to pick with him? And she said, yeah, actually, I do have a bone to pick with him about that. You know, so it's like.

Speaker 1 But do you see, let me interrupt. That's her thinking she's better than Jesus.

Speaker 1 And at that moment, the whole game gets exposed. Yeah.
Because she's imposing other morality on top of the scripture. And that's the kicker.

Speaker 2 Yeah, totally. Demanding that Jesus be this oppressor that would that would meet her modern criteria.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, I believe that women can preach and lead and pastor and all that, but I'm just saying, though, that like

Speaker 2 using using Jesus as your women's lib, he doesn't go far enough for you. If he's overthrowing government, he doesn't go far enough for you.
If he's there to, you know, to prioritize the poor.

Speaker 2 You know, for example, a Marxist will always prioritize somebody who is poor over somebody who's rich. The rich are automatically evil, and the poor are automatically automatically a problem.

Speaker 2 Well, Jesus doesn't do that.

Speaker 2 You know, and even the book of Proverbs, it's like, you know, justice has to be equal. You don't give favoritism to the rich.
Leviticus 19.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 So all that to say, there's a lot of ways that you can point it out, but I think

Speaker 2 the first domino that often falls is Jesus versus Paul. It's like it's a go-to.

Speaker 1 It's so interesting. Why is that? Because I find them to be complements to one another.
I mean, Paul talks about the resurrection. Paul clarifies church teaching.

Speaker 1 What do they possibly find to either be contradictory or at odds with one another?

Speaker 2 I think that Jesus is interested in explaining who he is and in how he fulfills scripture. He's the Messiah and he's explaining the kingdom of God.
Paul's stuck with the crummy job of being a pastor.

Speaker 2 You know, and like that's really hard. And so Paul has to sort through people's personal problems.
I mean, the Corinthians, you know, they're swinging from the chandeliers.

Speaker 2 And he's like, what are you guys doing? It's a mess over here. And so he has to work through people's practical problems.

Speaker 2 And so as Paul is navigating these moral dilemmas in Corinth, people are going to have a bone to pick with him because he's calling out really practical things. Whereas Jesus...

Speaker 2 you know, the main thrust of the three years that he has is saying, hey, I am who Isaiah says I am, and I am who David said I am, et cetera, and so forth.

Speaker 1 Now, so Nathan, there is an undoubtable surge happening of Christian interest in this country. The most popular music now for Gen Z is Christian music.

Speaker 1 Forrest Frank is incredibly popular and growing in popularity.

Speaker 1 We are seeing

Speaker 1 even more so than the rapper Drake, which is very, very promising. And even if you listen to Forrest Frank's lyrics, they're actually pretty biblically good.
I mean, you could like try to nitpick.

Speaker 1 They're way better than some of the other Christian music sometimes that's gotten popular.

Speaker 1 And it's like legit, like very good, like submitting to God's will and his path for it. Really, there's something happening right now, and it's a revival that is

Speaker 1 really surprising a lot of the experts.

Speaker 1 You see, when I was young, and you guys remember this 10 years ago, we were told that it's going to be a gradual decline of Christianity, and there's no reversing it, right?

Speaker 1 That it's just this whole chapter is going to close. And we saw it in the numbers.

Speaker 1 If you saw the chart, man, when Pastor Tommy started, it was, you know, 80% of people would go to church regularly, and then it was 70% and 60%. Then it was 55.

Speaker 1 All of a sudden, now, this last year, first time it's gone up about a point or two in the last 25 years, almost solely because of Generation Z, just so we are clear.

Speaker 1 Almost solely because of young people.

Speaker 1 Why is this happening, Nathan?

Speaker 2 I think that it's happening because Jesus is good at his job.

Speaker 2 He said that he was going to build his church.

Speaker 2 And I'm going to give away my eschatology in a sentence or two. I don't believe that Jesus is coming back for a weak, anemic bride.

Speaker 2 That's what I believe. I believe...

Speaker 2 You know, I don't believe that we're going to need to be raptured because we suck at our job and Jesus sucks at his.

Speaker 2 I believe that Jesus is coming back for a powerhouse, glorified church.

Speaker 2 I believe that.

Speaker 2 I don't think it's because we're amazing. I think it's because he is.
He said he'll build his church. He's going to build an amazing church.
The gates of hell won't be able to stand against us.

Speaker 2 I mean, and the picture is the church raiding hell, not hell coming at us, right?

Speaker 2 So I believe that the church is going to be glorified. And, you know, we're not there yet, but we're getting there.
I mean, she's on the treadmill. She's doing keto.

Speaker 2 You know.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 our best days are ahead.

Speaker 1 What lessons are you seeing of how a pastor should conduct himself in the sermons and the messaging of what is working and what is problematic as far as not just growing the church, but like what are you seeing on the landscape?

Speaker 1 Because you deal with a lot of pastors, don't you? What are your biggest sticking points to try to keep this revival going and some of the fault lines that should be avoided?

Speaker 2 So I believe that

Speaker 2 the purpose of the church is to worship God,

Speaker 2 equip the saints, and reach the world in that order.

Speaker 2 And as a Pentecostal, I'll speak from a Pentecostal ecclesiology.

Speaker 2 I believe that if we're not priests, we're going to be consumers.

Speaker 2 And one of the challenges I think that the American church is facing right now is that with the advent of the seeker-sensitive movement, where we're thinking about how to get people to church, you can, you know, you do it, we do a ton of advertising, and we essentially attract a lot of consumers who are there to, you know, to eat, essentially.

Speaker 2 And when you're a consumer, you know, you're problematizing everything. You know, oh, they didn't sing Good Good Father.
It's my favorite song, zero stars, you know.

Speaker 2 But when you're a priest, you come to church and you bring the sacrifice of praise. And the thing is, is when there's,

Speaker 2 when you put, you know, 1 Peter 2:5 says that you yourselves as spiritual stones are being built up into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices. What kind?

Speaker 2 Acceptable ones to God. So when you come to church, you're not there to eat for you.
You're there to minister to the Lord. You're on duty as a priest.

Speaker 2 The result is that the presence of God shows up in your church. And when God is in the house, it changes people's lives.
And that's how we keep revival going. So for me,

Speaker 2 revival is shifting the church from consumerism to a priesthood. Because if the priests come into the house and they offer the sacrifices, God,

Speaker 2 there's a principle in the Old Testament and it goes like this. Every acceptable sacrifice has a divine response.
Every single time we give God what he's asked for, he always shows up in fire, right?

Speaker 2 It's amazing. So that, to me, is what gets me excited about the church.
And I'm seeing that shift. And,

Speaker 2 you know, us Pentecostals, I mean, we're all about the presence of God. But I believe that evangelicals are.
I believe that Catholics are. And I believe that there's a shift that's going from

Speaker 2 drawing consumers to let's teach people to be priests. When people come in, they're going to experience the byproduct, which is the presence of God.
It'll wreck people.

Speaker 2 People don't need to come to church to get David Goggins. They can get that on Instagram.
You know, like they don't need TED Talks. They can already get that.

Speaker 2 What people need is an encounter with Jesus Christ, you know, and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 1 Amen.

Speaker 3 We're honored to be partnering with Alan Jackson Ministries. And today, I want to point you to their podcast.
It's called Culture in Christianity, the Allen Jackson Podcast.

Speaker 3 What makes it unique is Pastor Alan's biblical perspective.

Speaker 3 He takes the truth from the Bible and applies it to issues we're facing today, gender confusion, abortion, immigration, Doge, Trump in the White House, issues in the church.

Speaker 3 He doesn't just discuss the problems. In every episode, he gives practical things we can do to make a difference.
His guests have incredible expertise and powerful testimonies.

Speaker 3 They've been great friends. And now you can hear from Charlie in his own words.

Speaker 1 Each episode will make you recognize the power of your faith and how God can use your life to impact our world today. The Culture and Christianity podcast is informative and encouraging.

Speaker 1 You could find it on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any episodes.

Speaker 1 Alan Jackson Ministries is working hard to bring biblical truth back into our culture. You can find out more about Pastor Alan and the ministry at alanjackson.com forward slash Charlie.

Speaker 1 I actually think paradoxically that's why the Catholic Church is growing because in the Catholic own approach, and I have such great respect for Catholics, I know we have some in the audience here.

Speaker 1 And I want us to actually dive into our agreements, not our disagreements, whatever. We all know those.

Speaker 1 I actually think, though that the reason why Catholicism is growing for young people especially is that there is an emphasis on the holiness and the experience with God and there is an emphasis on the aesthetic.

Speaker 1 Do you agree with that?

Speaker 2 I'll tell you right now, I think the most beautiful thing about the Catholic Church is the Mass and rather the Eucharist. So Catholics don't go to Mass to get a TED talk.

Speaker 2 They go there to encounter Jesus through communion. I think that's beautiful.
Baptists, for example, they go to church to encounter Christ through the preached word.

Speaker 2 John Piper says that the primary way of gazing upon Christ is through his words. I love that.
So when we're emphasizing how do we encounter God, that's when the church is winning.

Speaker 2 And I know that we do that in different ways,

Speaker 2 but I think that the Catholic Church.

Speaker 1 What are some of the other ways? Worship, obviously, singing, prayer, repentance.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. Yeah, like exactly.
So prayer,

Speaker 2 gathering, gathering, the preaching of the word, communion, praise, giving your tithes and your offerings. I mean, that's literally you being the priest.

Speaker 2 You're offering, Lord, this is a symbol of my life, and I'm giving it to you in obedience to you. And I know that when I do this, you show up in my life.

Speaker 2 Fire is coming on the altar of my life when I offer this to you. It's like really holy.
It's really, really amazing. So all those different ways.
And the church is meant to facilitate worship.

Speaker 2 And that's, I think, what we're going to continue to do.

Speaker 1 What are on the horizon some of the great threats to the church? We obviously identify deconstructionism, progressivism, wokeism.

Speaker 1 Do you think they've grown in the last couple of years, or are they decreasing in number? I feel as if that's becoming less and less fashionable.

Speaker 1 I could name at least 10 major pastors in the last couple of years that are

Speaker 1 coming in our direction. I mean, we here at Freedom Night, thanks to Dream City Church, we've been doing this since 2021.
I mean, we were very early adopters, but Nathan.

Speaker 1 Are they increasing? Are they decreasing? Like, give us a little status report.

Speaker 2 Is Deconstruction increasing?

Speaker 1 Or progressivism in the church?

Speaker 2 Yeah, look, I think that there's obviously a battle.

Speaker 2 And I think that there's been a battle since the church's inception.

Speaker 2 There were external and internal threats.

Speaker 2 We were fighting heresies for the first four or five hundred years of church history, Gnosticism and mysticism.

Speaker 2 Absolutely, exactly. So I think that we're always going to have these, you know, Jesus even said, like, there's going to be,

Speaker 2 you know, people will have itching ears. And

Speaker 2 when Paul's talking to Timothy, he's just saying, check your doctrine, check your doctrine, check your doctrine, check your doctrine. So

Speaker 2 there's all kinds of people that are going to be, they're going to have mythologies and philosophies and they're going to be trying to take power, et cetera.

Speaker 2 So I think that we're always going to be dealing with these types of existential problems, theological problems. And

Speaker 2 it is what it is. There's going to be people that are going to claim to be the Messiah, and they're going to be claiming to, you know, like the apostles, and they're going to be,

Speaker 2 you know, when Paul is writing to defend his apostleship, there's going to be people that are going to be

Speaker 2 claim to be this and claim to be that. So

Speaker 2 I don't think that it's deconstruction isn't alarming. It's on trend for what's been happening the last 2,000 years.
That's what I would just say.

Speaker 1 Let's close with a threat that I talk a lot about that I think the church needs to more educate ourselves.

Speaker 1 I'll use the third person singular here, like the plural, that we need to educate ourselves better, and that is Islam.

Speaker 1 And I don't think we're quite equipped and understand the spiritual ramifications here. I mean if you go online everyone wants to talk about Israel all the time.

Speaker 1 Fine, but like okay, why don't we talk about Islam actually?

Speaker 1 the religion of a billion people that many of whom are taking over the entire European continent and we're about to have a Muslim mayor of New York City and we have no idea what they believe or what it is.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 should Christians care about this, Nathan? I mean, some pastors say, well, they believe different stuff than we believe. And

Speaker 1 how should we think about Islam?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I think that it would,

Speaker 2 you should read how the first thousand years of pastors and thinkers in the church, like the patristics, how they thought about Islam.

Speaker 2 It's actually pretty shocking because Islam hasn't really changed all that much. It's still very militant.

Speaker 2 I think that

Speaker 2 dismissing it as just another religion is naive.

Speaker 2 It is incredibly politically and ideologically and militantly driven in a way that, like, for example, Buddhism is just not.

Speaker 2 So not all religions are the same. So it's naive to kind of classify.
Well, it's a religion, and it just goes in this clause. It's like, Islam is not like that.
It does not behave like that.

Speaker 2 Is it a religion?

Speaker 2 I would say that it would be naive to just to compare it to Buddhism, to compare it to Jehovah's Witnesses.

Speaker 2 I think it is a political ideology that it's it's it's a religion political ideology that is inseparable from those two things and it's militant.

Speaker 1 And this is the this is the most important thing. We as Christians we are able to separate our church and state.
In fact, sometimes we want more Christians to get involved in the state.

Speaker 1 But there is no mosque and state separation in Islam. Correct.
It does not exist. That teaching has never existed.
And therefore, this is why so many Muslims run for political office.

Speaker 1 Because not only are they interested, they're commanded to try to institute what they call the ummah, which is the covering of the earth. Correct.

Speaker 1 And there is an Islamic illiteracy that we have in the West. And honestly, shame on us as Christians for not talking about this more.
And at the core, this is an immigration issue.

Speaker 1 But Nathan, I'm told by Christians, we must open up our borders to all people at all times, no matter what, because that's what Jesus would do. Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I mean, yeah, where did Jesus say that?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 Let's,

Speaker 2 you know.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 there's this misunderstanding about

Speaker 2 neighbors and families, you know. So,

Speaker 2 for example, like,

Speaker 2 I love love Japan.

Speaker 2 I love how Japanese it is. I love how foreign it is, you know, like they do their own thing over there, and it's wonderful.

Speaker 2 If you ever been there, it's just like you're just, it's, it's like, it's incredible, you know, like their food and the way that they organize themselves on elevators and escalators.

Speaker 2 And, you know, they're just, there's so, I would never want to live there. But I love visiting there and I appreciate their culture and the cultural differences.
But I don't want to be Japanese.

Speaker 2 I don't want to live in Japan. Does that make sense? So I think that one of the issues is that people think that if you don't want to be it, you hate it.
And

Speaker 2 that's one of the issues is that people are like, well, America needs to be everything. It's like, well, what if America is American? You know, like, what? That's okay.

Speaker 2 It's why do Americans have to hate their own culture? and destroy their own culture. See, I'm Canadian and I understand what multiculturalism is.

Speaker 2 And multiculturalism is the death of the dominant culture. That's exactly what it is.
Exactly right. Like I don't recognize my hometown anymore.

Speaker 2 In fact, when I go back to Canada, I don't, do you know what it means to be Canadian? Nothing. It means nothing to be a Canadian now.
Justin Trudeau,

Speaker 2 the clown that was in there for 10 years, that destroyed my country,

Speaker 2 he called Canada the first post-national country, meaning that the only thing that we have in common is that we have nothing in common. That's what it means.

Speaker 2 That's so good. And it just destroys the social fabric.

Speaker 2 You think that people would get along, but it's the exact opposite. They don't get along.
People don't work together.

Speaker 2 The Hindus are hating the Sikhs. The Sikhs are hating the Muslims.

Speaker 2 It is just absolute and total chaos right now in my country. Nobody wants to work together.
So,

Speaker 2 you know, I'm not a fan of multiculturalism.

Speaker 2 I'm a fan of multi-ethnicism. I think that that's beautiful.
But I think that Christians should build Christian societies.

Speaker 2 And if you're Muslim, go and build a Muslim society but I think that there's certain worldviews that are incompatible and that's okay.

Speaker 1 Isn't it interesting? There are 50 plus Muslim majority countries and yet Muslims so badly want to come here and turn this into another one.

Speaker 1 It's because it is a conquering ideology that masquerades itself as a religion. Correct.
And that needs to be repeatedly said.

Speaker 1 And again, this is not about hating individual Muslims.

Speaker 1 Literally my primary care doctor here in Arizona, Zudi Jasser, like the sweetest guy ever, is a practicing Muslim who's trying to de-radicalize Islam.

Speaker 1 We all know individual Muslims who we care for, we minister to. We're talking about an ideology.

Speaker 1 And you must be able to separate an ideology from precious individuals that we care about. Because they're always going to try to conflate those two.
Right?

Speaker 1 We should care for those individuals and we should minister to them and we should have great relationships and be neighborly and be Christ-like to them.

Speaker 1 And we can see really goodness in a lot of those people. But don't tell me that Minneapolis is going in the right direction.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, that's not true. Don't tell me that New York City is going in the right direction.
Right. That they're about to have a Muslim Marxist mayor in America's largest city.

Speaker 1 And we as Christians, and we'll kind of close on this, Nathan, Western civilization is Christendom.

Speaker 1 It is an inheritance and a birthright brought to you by Christians.

Speaker 1 And when we seek to establish that, we seek to actually have what makes us what quote-unquote the dominant culture. And it's not racial, it's not ethnic, but it is cultural.

Speaker 1 And that's what's important. And you must assimilate towards that norm when you come here.
And immigration without assimilation is an invasion,

Speaker 1 and we should not put up with it.

Speaker 1 Mathon, final thought, and then I'm going to bring Lucas in for a line change here.

Speaker 2 Okay, yeah,

Speaker 2 geez, that was so good.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I just, I just, I just totally agree.

Speaker 2 I think we have to be able to separate, you know, so who is my neighbor?

Speaker 2 My neighbor is my Muslim doctor, and my neighbor is you know a family you know that is here and from mexico and they're begging and they need food and and i want to take care of them and that's my christian duty to take care of them and as a christian i need to separate um

Speaker 2 you know my my my you know my duty to to to take care of the person in front of me regardless of where they're from you know what they're doing from these um these corporate ideologies um you know like you have to separate the individual from

Speaker 2 a worldview.

Speaker 4 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.