The Great Feminization of America

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Speaker 4 I'm Andrew Colvett, joined by Blake Neff. This hour, we have the great Helen Andrews on an article that she wrote for Compact magazine called The Great Feminization.

Speaker 4 Helen, you wrote this fantastic article.

Speaker 4 Blake actually flagged it for me.

Speaker 4 This premise, you said it was like a light bulb moment for you, and it was, and it went back to Larry Summers, who was, you know, obviously was in the Obama administration.

Speaker 4 He's now being referenced in

Speaker 4 the context of the Jeffrey Epstein files and the

Speaker 4 estate releasing these emails. So he's a known commodity, but he used to be the president of Harvard, and he was canceled.

Speaker 4 And this moment was, there was an article written about it, an essay that you referenced in your essay, that was this aha moment. What is that aha moment?

Speaker 5 So Larry Summers had to resign as president of Harvard, one of the most powerful positions in America, because he made some very unpc remarks about women in science.

Speaker 5 Specifically, he said that we all can observe that women are underrepresented at the very high end of scientific achievement.

Speaker 5 If you look at the physics department of MIT or Harvard, there are more men there than women.

Speaker 5 And Larry Summers ventured to say that this was not because the head of the physics department at MIT is biased against women or hates women. It's simply because of first some differences in aptitude.

Speaker 5 There are more men at the extreme ends of the bell curve. So there are more male geniuses and also more male idiots.
But also differences in preferences.

Speaker 5 Women tend to be, even very bright, smart women who are at that end of the bell curve, tend to gravitate. to fields that involve caring or people or some kind of human angle.

Speaker 5 They are not attracted or disproportionately less likely to be attracted to really abstract fields like math or physics. All of this is well within the scientific mainstream.

Speaker 5 It corresponds to survey data that we have and just all the kind of social scientific data you could possibly want.

Speaker 5 Backs up the idea that there are differences between men and women and specifically in the areas of what kinds of fields they're attracted to.

Speaker 5 But Larry Summers, as punishment for saying what everybody who actually studies this knows to be a fact,

Speaker 5 was

Speaker 5 canceled, one of the first cancellations by a bunch of female scientists who were in the audience for the speech where he made those remarks.

Speaker 5 They said, Larry Summers hates women, he's a misogynist, he's biased, and we are going to go gunning for his job. And they succeeded.

Speaker 5 They managed to get the president of Harvard forced out of his job for telling the truth.

Speaker 5 And the light bulb moment that I came across in an essay and later applied to other cancellations was that this type of cancellation is just female social behavior.

Speaker 5 It is what groups of women, it's how groups of women interact, how groups of women tend to police norms, how they deal with conflict through ostracism rather than direct confrontation, through excluding people who are causing disruption rather than, you know, having arguments based on facts.

Speaker 5 So these female social dynamics were being applied to Larry Summers and his cancellation.

Speaker 5 And it seemed to me from the perspective of post-wokeness, you know, a few years after Larry Summers left his job, that this kind of cancellation was popping up more and more and has been since the summer of 2020.

Speaker 5 And if that is a manifestation of female group dynamics in institutions and organizations where they haven't been seen before or haven't prevailed before, then that seems like a really important social development that people need to be talking more and thinking more about.

Speaker 2 Yeah, look, I want to get at a specific thing. You kind of, you make a prediction in here.
You talk about how fields change over time as they become more women.

Speaker 2 And so a classic field that was basically all men historically is law. Almost all lawyers were men.
Almost all judges were men. Now the majority of law students are women.

Speaker 2 I believe the majority of graduates are women. And I think soon it might even be the majority of

Speaker 2 all practicing lawyers will be women. And you lay out, you know, kind of predictions about what that will mean for America, for the rule of law, for how we approach this important topic.

Speaker 2 And I guess, do you want to just repeat that for our audience?

Speaker 5 Well, I know a lot of great female lawyers, so nobody's saying that women can't be terrific lawyers.

Speaker 5 But I always ground all of my observations about the feminization of law in things that I can see with my own eyes.

Speaker 5 So I'm not just speculating abstractly on how general female tendencies might play out. What I do instead is I look at types of law where women already predominate.

Speaker 5 One example would be the Title IX courts for sexual assault on college campuses that we had.

Speaker 5 That was a whole new legal system that was basically designed, implemented, and controlled throughout by women. And what we saw was it was stacked against men.

Speaker 5 It forfeited a lot of really important due process protections for the accused. It threw them out.

Speaker 5 because the people who designed this system tended to sympathize with women and tended not to sympathize with the men who were accused.

Speaker 5 Another example of an area of law that is highly feminized that might be a surprise to your listeners is immigration law.

Speaker 5 People don't know this, but a majority of immigration lawyers are female, over 60%, I believe. So immigration law is a very highly feminized type of legal practice.

Speaker 5 And that's one area of law where we all can observe. The letter of the law is still there.

Speaker 5 We still have lots of laws on the books about citizenship and deportation and immigration and when people are allowed to be in this country and when they're not.

Speaker 5 But those laws are sort of made a mockery of by a system that has been abused to within an inch of its life. And why has it been so stretched

Speaker 5 to be almost meaningless? Because the lawyers have sympathy for these human stories.

Speaker 5 We're in a situation where you can't enforce immigration law if it involves being mean to somebody or making somebody feel sad, right?

Speaker 5 Like that's basically what a lot of immigration lawyers end up spending their day arguing.

Speaker 5 So, feminized areas of law look like Title IX courts for sexual assault on college campuses, immigration law as we see it today,

Speaker 5 on law schools. A lot of law schools during 2020 and even still today went extremely woke where they shut down any kind of unwelcome conservative argument.

Speaker 5 They just said, that's hate speech, and I won't even consider it.

Speaker 5 So, all of these manifestations of wokeness seem to manifest in areas of law where women already predominate numerically, as they do, as you said, like in law schools.

Speaker 5 Law schools have been majority females since 2016. So, well, law is an area that involves adhering to logic even when you don't want to, right?

Speaker 5 Like, feminine modes of thought and male modes of thought are both great.

Speaker 5 sometimes you want to be able to adhere strictly to logic and sometimes you want to be more flexible and look more at context law is one area where the logical mode has to prevail or else we don't have the rule of law anymore yeah and i think that's one of the most interesting pieces of your your article for me is because we think about you know the these sort of great leaps forward for women happening in the distant past.

Speaker 4 But what you're saying is that, yeah, law schools became majority female in 2016.

Speaker 4 In 1974, only 10% of New York Times reporters were female. The New York Times became majority female in 2018, and the female share is up to 55%.
Medical schools became majority female in 2019.

Speaker 4 Women became a majority of college-educated workforce nationwide in 2019. Women became a majority of college instructors in 2023.

Speaker 4 The great feminization really occurred just a few years ago, and it's continuing on in many more fields.

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Speaker 4 And so, Helen, you basically directly link this great feminization with the rise of wokeness.

Speaker 4 That's the key. Basically, everything that you're seeing in the woke era is an outgrowth of these fields, and American institutions become increasingly feminized.

Speaker 4 What do you see when you say the feminine versus the masculine?

Speaker 4 Maybe explain what you mean by that.

Speaker 5 Sure. I think when people hear differences between men and women, a lot of times they jump straight to stereotypes like that: men are logical and women are emotional.

Speaker 5 And that's not really entirely what I'm talking about.

Speaker 5 More, I'm talking about less individual differences between men and women and more group dynamics. This is a subject that has been extensively studied in the field of psychology.

Speaker 5 If you have a group of men in a room and a group of women in a room, and you give them a task, how will these groups solve that task? How will their interactions proceed differently?

Speaker 5 And it is a sort of observed fact about group dynamics that men tend to deal with conflict. They tend to have hierarchy.

Speaker 5 There will be a pecking order that will establish itself very quickly. And they also tend to be very task-oriented.

Speaker 5 Female groups, by contrast, are very averse to hierarchy.

Speaker 5 They tend to suppress any conflict. If you broach conflict within a female group, all of the rest of the women there will shut you down and say, whoa, you know, honey, don't make waves.

Speaker 5 They are also much less task-oriented. They're more focused on making sure everybody's involved in the decision.
And that's what we saw a lot with wokeness.

Speaker 5 People were derailed or people derailed institutions from their purposes in order to fritter away their attention on various extraneous political differences.

Speaker 4 You know, another real, oh, go ahead.

Speaker 2 Oh, I was just reminded, you know, about that strategy of, you know, like how they all want to hear everyone's voice.

Speaker 2 And I was thinking back in 2016, there was a Washington Post story about the late Obama administration.

Speaker 2 And it was about all the women staffers in the White House, they felt that they weren't hearing enough of their views or something.

Speaker 2 So they adopted a strategy. This is the Washington Post.

Speaker 2 They adopted a a strategy called amplification, which is where when one of them they thought made a key point, all of them would just repeat the same point during the meeting.

Speaker 2 And all I can think of is how that would make the meeting so intolerable to be at.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you know, it's very, it's very common for men to sort of loathe meeting culture, where like, you know, death by a thousand meetings in organizations.

Speaker 4 Helen, you say that men are more designed for war, right?

Speaker 4 Which there, there's, there's a, and women tend to be more sort of their group dynamics about protecting the young offspring, which makes perfect sense. But that tends to make men appeasers.

Speaker 4 They're willing to get over conflicts because they need to ultimately find peace. That's the whole point of wars.

Speaker 4 You wage war and conflict, and then you reach peace at the other end. How are we seeing this play out now in the era of woke? And it affects every institution.

Speaker 4 I like to reference Blake's example that we can no longer build boats. We can't do basic, you know, striving, excellent things as a country and as a culture anymore.

Speaker 4 And I can't help but think back to this task-oriented nature of men versus women.

Speaker 4 The floor is yours, Helen.

Speaker 5 I was fascinated to learn that these same dynamics appear in primatology.

Speaker 5 That is, people who look at chimpanzees all day observe that when two male chimpanzees have a conflict, they'll have a fight about it and re-establish which one of them is the alpha, and then they will move on.

Speaker 5 When two female chimpanzees have a conflict, they will leave and never speak to each other again, basically.

Speaker 5 So, men are much better at resolving conflict and then moving on, whereas women tend to hold on to things and sort of not move on after conflict. And that's what we saw a lot during wokeness.

Speaker 5 People were targeted for behavior or for making statements that were on PC.

Speaker 5 And until, you know, pre-wokeness, the way you would deal with a situation situation like that is you would have a debate.

Speaker 5 James Daymore would be at Google and he would say, I think female underrepresentation in science is due to biological attributes and not bias.

Speaker 5 The way to deal with that is to have a conversation about whether he's correct or not. The way wokeness deals with that is by saying, I can't believe you just said that.

Speaker 5 I'm going to get you fired from your job.

Speaker 5 Wokeness was an inability to have any kind of open debate because the very existence of that debate seemed too much like conflict, and conflict had to be suppressed.

Speaker 5 And this was just

Speaker 5 so massively toxic for so many institutions since 2020.

Speaker 5 And the reason why I think it's important to consider whether wokeness is a product of demographic feminization is because if it is, that means wokeness is not over.

Speaker 5 A lot of people look around, they think, you know, Donald Trump won the election, wokeness is finished, we can all move on, the vibe shift is here.

Speaker 5 But I think that if these,

Speaker 5 if

Speaker 5 wokeness is just female patterns of behavior in institutions where women were not as well represented until recently, then that means it's here to stay and we need to deal with it head on.

Speaker 2 Well, I guess that's the natural follow-up is if it's a natural byproduct of institutions being 50% or more female,

Speaker 2 one, I guess, what are the civilizational implications of that for the United States, for Europe, for I guess, Earth? And do you believe there's, I guess, a way to mitigate that downside?

Speaker 2 Or is that just going to be the nature of things going forward? Because I guess, to me, it's hard to imagine you're going to turf 60 million women out of the workplace.

Speaker 5 And that's why sort of the next obvious question after we establish that wokeness is a product of feminization is, is feminization a naturally occurring phenomenon?

Speaker 5 This is the position that a lot of liberals take. They say, well, you know, the field of law is becoming more and more feminized.
Well, maybe women are just better.

Speaker 5 Maybe women are out-competing men within the field of law. Maybe women are just better employees.
And that's why our newsrooms and businesses are getting more and more feminized.

Speaker 5 And if I thought that was true, then I would say there's no solution to feminization because I believe in fairness and meritocracy.

Speaker 5 And if women really are just out-competing men because they're better at stuff, then there's not a lot I can say in response to that.

Speaker 5 However, I think a lot of us would accept that in many cases, fields become more and more feminized, not because women are out-competing men within that field, but because women are feminizing that field and making it more and more friendly to feminine preferences and patterns of behavior.

Speaker 5 Like if you're working at a business that that is so HRified that it's like, you know, the HR lady designed every aspect of your day-to-day office experience.

Speaker 5 She determined who advanced at that company, who got the best promotions and the best assignments, and everything was touchy-feely in a HRFI type of way.

Speaker 5 Obviously, a masculine man is not going to do well in that environment and he's not going to advance. But that's not because he's not competitive.
It's not because he's not good at his job.

Speaker 5 It's just because that kind of highly feminized organization is not friendly to his virtues and attributes.

Speaker 5 So I think when we consider how do we deal with feminization, if it's something we want to roll back, how should we go about it? That's the first place to look.

Speaker 5 Are there any institutions or organizations that are too feminized in this unnatural way?

Speaker 4 Helen Andrews, Great Peace and Compact magazine, The Great Feminization. Thank you, Helen.

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Speaker 4 Excited to welcome Miranda Devine, the great Miranda Devine, columnist for the New York Post, author of the new book, The Big Guy.

Speaker 4 She is joining the Charlie Kirk Show. Miranda, welcome back.
It's good to see you.

Speaker 6 Thanks so much, Andrew. Great to talk to you.

Speaker 4 Yeah, great to talk to you as well. You had a bombshell article yesterday about

Speaker 4 the would-be assassin of President Trump, and you

Speaker 4 threaded in there a little piece about some of his fetishes. Maybe he was entertaining a furry fetish, referred to himself with they-them pronouns.
Tell us more, Miranda Devine.

Speaker 6 It's look at slim pickings. My source went through 17 different online platforms that he found that this would-be assassin of the president, Thomas Crookes, had logged into or had accounts with.

Speaker 6 And one of them was this site called DeviantArt, which I had not heard of before, but apparently it's the biggest online hub for furry activity, the furry community, which of course is this kind of sexual fetish where people dress up as animals or they like cartoon figures of sort of humanized animals that have sex or a nude.

Speaker 6 I think some of it's not sexual, but most of it it seems to be. Anyway, it's weird.
And so

Speaker 6 this guy, Thomas Crookes, had two accounts on this platform. And he also on this platform used used they, them

Speaker 6 pronouns.

Speaker 6 The only thing my source could find, you know, activity of Thomas Crookes that still existed on that platform or on the archive was

Speaker 6 an image of a sort of sort of bizarre cartoon image of a very muscle-bound sort of man's body, like a Sylvester Stallone or Arnold Schwarzenegger type body with the head of a woman on top, you know, long hair and a female face, and with this puny little guy next to her in his underpants,

Speaker 6 and who looked kind of like Thomas Crook, sort of in a sort of a inferior position, if you get my drift. So

Speaker 6 there's that. And then the other stuff he had on this DeviantArt platform was violent.
It was cartoon characters shooting each other in the head,

Speaker 6 you know,

Speaker 6 killing each other.

Speaker 6 So, I mean, that's all very strange.

Speaker 6 All of his utterances that are on YouTube and so on are increasingly very weird that he flips from being very pro-Trump and anti-Democrat, particularly anti, you know, the squad Ilhan Omar and so on.

Speaker 6 And then he flips in the matter of a couple of months in January 2020 to the opposite, does a 180 and now he's very anti-Trump,

Speaker 6 critical of Trump supporters and starts escalating into this assassination rhetoric.

Speaker 2 Hey, Miranda, Blake here. And I guess the thing that came to mind with the article yesterday: so you mentioned the weird

Speaker 2 furry art or just kind of strange art in general, uh, but the article doesn't have any photos of that.

Speaker 2 I guess, is there a reason there was that choice was made, or is it no longer available and we only know by implication?

Speaker 6 No, we, I actually tweeted out uh the one of the images, and then my colleague Josh Christensen did a follow-up today with all of the images from from the um from my uh my sources um research so all those violent cartoon figures um i think there's about three images of that and then the muscle bound um i can't remember josh called it something something like muscle mummy or something um and we we we published that today so that's in the the new york post today

Speaker 4 so miranda there was a congressional report released in december 2024

Speaker 4 that that did not include a lot of this social media activity.

Speaker 4 Do we know why that this was not mentioned in that congressional report in December of 2024?

Speaker 6 You know, that's a really good point because

Speaker 6 this was something that really disturbed my source and set him to continue to investigate and also try to get this into the hands of people who would do something about it.

Speaker 6 He's very concerned that

Speaker 6 the public doesn't know why the assassination attempt happened and that it could escalate. And,

Speaker 6 you know, if, I mean, we're told by the FBI currently that Crooks acted alone.

Speaker 6 This is what Cash Patel has said just in a tweet online where he ran through all the inputs that the FBI put into the investigation, which I think is frankly quite meaningless.

Speaker 6 You know, we followed up 14,000 tips or we, you know, did 10,000 interviews, whatever they did. He had all the metrics, but that's the inputs.
What's the outputs?

Speaker 6 What came of all that effort? And all he does at the end is this conclusion that we've concluded that he acted alone. So my source just thinks there's something more to this.

Speaker 6 And so therefore he pursued it. And the fact that that congressional report

Speaker 6 had nothing about the online activity would be because the FBI didn't share that with them. The only

Speaker 6 sort of time that I guess the FBI under Christopher Wray, just in the two weeks after the Butler

Speaker 6 events,

Speaker 6 Christopher Wray a week later testified to Congress. He said

Speaker 6 there's no,

Speaker 6 we've searched our database and there's nothing about Thomas Crookes before Butler.

Speaker 6 right very carefully that he said that now i asked the fbi when i was doing this story last week a number of questions.

Speaker 6 And the most important one, I think, was, did you have any contact with Thomas Crooks? Did the FBI have any contact with Thomas Crookes before Butler? Did anyone, you know, report him to the FBI?

Speaker 6 Did you pay him a visit? Did you knock on his door?

Speaker 6 Were you aware of his online activity? Does he appear anywhere? And all I got back was no comment from the FBI. And,

Speaker 6 you know,

Speaker 6 they've not been forthcoming with Congress. Senator Ron Johnson has been really angry about this,

Speaker 6 angry about the fact that even the Trump FBI,

Speaker 6 12 months after Butler in July of this year,

Speaker 6 has not. complied with his oversight requests.
He wants camera footage, he wants documents, he wants forensics, autopsy, etc.

Speaker 6 And he's just, he says he's been stonewalled by the FBI and the Secret Service. And I don't understand why that is.

Speaker 6 If it's as clear and simple as Cash Patel is telling us that, you know, just this lone gunman acting alone, et cetera, why be secretive about his online activity? Why did Deputy Director Paul Abate?

Speaker 6 who was Ray's deputy director at the FBI, why did he testify to Congress two weeks after Butler and say only half the story?

Speaker 6 He described described Thomas Crook's online activity leading up to when he flipped and became anti-Trump, when he was anti-Semitic and sort of expressing sort of far-right views.

Speaker 6 But Paul Abate didn't tell Congress, and I think this is lying by omission, that in January of 2020, this kid flipped and became rabidly anti-Trump and started then with his violent assassination rhetoric.

Speaker 6 Why did Paul Abate leave that out? That was deliberate misleading of Congress. And the question is, why? And why does Cash Patel

Speaker 6 not be more forthcoming? And look, the president is not satisfied. His family is not satisfied.
So I don't, something doesn't add up here.

Speaker 4 Well, there's a lot that doesn't add up.

Speaker 4 I mean, you've got the fact that Christopher Wray told Congress on July 24th, 2024, 11 days after the shooting, that the Bureau did not have any prior information about the shooter, and now they're saying no comment.

Speaker 4 So, you know, why wouldn't they either just confirm what Christopher Ray said or add additional context, right? Because

Speaker 4 and the other thing that doesn't add up, the sort of big E on the eye chart, as it were, Miranda, is that there's apparently zero social media footprint from this kid from 2020 to 2024.

Speaker 4 He just disappeared. Like we're supposed to,

Speaker 4 we're supposed to just conclude that a young man who was had 19 profiles, apparently, that you guys investigated and have data on, that they all just went away?

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's very strange.

Speaker 6 From August of 2020, just after his most violent post or comment when he's talking about assassinating political leaders and military leaders,

Speaker 6 he goes dark. He just disappears.
The other thing that happened

Speaker 6 around that time after which he disappeared was he started to have communications with a figure called Willie Tepis, which I don't believe is his real name, but it's what he used when he interacted with Thomas Crookes.

Speaker 6 And Willy Tepis

Speaker 6 is a neo-Nazi involved with a Norwegian neo-Nazi group that has since been designated a terrorist organisation by the State Department.

Speaker 6 They did that designation in June of 2024, a month before Butler.

Speaker 6 I'm not sure if, I mean, that's probably just a coincidence, but Willy Tepis sort of seemed seemed to encourage this violent rhetoric from Thomas Crookes.

Speaker 6 He would say things like, you know, Maoist phrases like, you can only achieve anything through the muzzle of a gun,

Speaker 6 a phrase that Crookes loved to repeat.

Speaker 6 And so shortly after that, Crookes goes dark. And I've been told by,

Speaker 6 you know, people in the intelligence

Speaker 6 agencies that

Speaker 6 there's no way that this Norwegian neo-Nazi terrorist would not have been on the radar of the CIA.

Speaker 6 And if that were the case, the CIA would inform the FBI of any interactions that he had with an American citizen. And, you know, you can say, oh, all this stuff happened online.

Speaker 6 How would the FBI know? Well,

Speaker 6 again, I've talked to FBI people, including a very high-ranking former FBI agent whose name appears as the alias that

Speaker 6 Thomas Crookes used on his PayPal account, Rod Swanson.

Speaker 6 He's a very senior former FBI guy, was in Vegas, was running criminal investigations for the state of Nevada after he left the FBI and during the time of the Las Vegas mass shooting.

Speaker 6 That again is someone who's you know, disappeared offline, has no friends,

Speaker 6 another mystery, no motive found, similar to Thomas Crookes, although he's in his 60s.

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Speaker 4 All right, Miranda, so this Rod Swanson, I don't know if you want to chime in, Blake, but this Rod Swanson guy, I mean, he was a shooting instructor or something like this in Pennsylvania, which is obviously where Butler is located.

Speaker 4 Do we have any indication that these two might have run into each other at some point, that their paths might have crossed?

Speaker 6 I don't think so. I've talked to Rod Swanson.
He seems an authentic, legitimate person.

Speaker 6 I mean as far as I can tell, he was genuinely, seemed to be genuinely surprised that I was calling and that I was asking or that I told him about this PayPal account. And he was flummoxed.

Speaker 6 He said, why, you know, if that's, if I'm involved in this,

Speaker 6 why didn't the FBI contact him? I don't understand that either. Why wouldn't the FBI contact a person who is a former FBI agent whose name Thomas Crookes uses as an alias for his PayPal account.

Speaker 6 Now, my source initially, there's a character in Parks and Recreation called Ron Swanson. So my source initially thought maybe that's the person.
But, you know,

Speaker 6 I just, this is a very high IQ guy, Thomas Crookes.

Speaker 6 We've seen his school report.

Speaker 6 His teachers have been quoted saying that he was highly intelligent.

Speaker 6 He was pretty precise. So

Speaker 6 maybe he did mean the guy from Parks and Rex, but when I look up the name Rod Swanson, the actual name he used as the alias, and it turns out to be a former FBI agent who was involved in the investigation of the Las Vegas mass shooting, which bears some resemblance, I immediately call him up and he says, doesn't have a PayPal account, doesn't know how to set one up, had never met Thomas Crookes.

Speaker 4 So Rod Swanson is this guy that was involved at a very high level, it sounds like, investigating the Las Vegas massacre shooting, which would strike me as something that a young, online young man would be hyper-aware of and kind of fascinated.

Speaker 4 Because, I mean, the conspiracy theories ran wild with that one because we never really did find out what the motive was. We never got a real clear narrative.

Speaker 2 It seems to have been a shooting caused by pure boomer enui or something. Yeah.

Speaker 4 It was just this guy.

Speaker 2 you could see his family members and you were like, okay, this guy might be weird enough to do a mass shooting.

Speaker 4 We never got

Speaker 2 he didn't leave a manifesto and sometimes that's how

Speaker 4 so to see this kid referencing another

Speaker 4 sort of

Speaker 4 very high profile event.

Speaker 2 I think you know, Pozo told us it's like a guy having the name Bromer Simpson on right.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, that's possible.

Speaker 4 There's so many unanswered questions. I guess

Speaker 4 if you're going to sum this up for us, Miranda, we've got these weird online presence that just goes dark. He's referencing FBI investigators from Las Vegas Massacre.

Speaker 4 What questions remain and where do we go from here?

Speaker 6 I just clear up one thing about Rod Swanson.

Speaker 6 He was not investigating Las Vegas. He was at that point running criminal investigations for the state of Nevada.

Speaker 6 So he was peripherally involved talking to victims and so on, but wasn't investigating it.

Speaker 6 He seems like a decent guy. He said to me, it's inconceivable that the FBI didn't knock on the door of this kid.
So

Speaker 6 I think that's the big question: is

Speaker 6 did the FBI knock on the door, which everybody involved in law enforcement says would have had to have happened? Did they have some involvement with him because of this violent online rhetoric?

Speaker 6 How involved were they? And if they were involved, why aren't they telling us about it? Why is the Trump FBI just not commenting and going dark as well?

Speaker 6 Why aren't they giving us chapter and verse on what motivated this guy? Why is there so much secrecy in terms of the oversight by the Senate?

Speaker 6 Clay Higgins found a whole lot of other interesting and disturbing information, like, for instance, that they cremated the body soon after.

Speaker 6 That, I mean,

Speaker 6 another source has told me that

Speaker 6 the toxicology

Speaker 6 isn't comprehensive as it should be.

Speaker 6 There's a lot of weird things, hosing the roof down, etc. I don't know why Cash Patel doesn't tell the American people exactly what's going on instead of just saying no comment.

Speaker 4 Yeah, there's a lot there. And I remember the cremation of the body, too, which is...

Speaker 4 Very suspicious.

Speaker 4 None of the, I'll be honest, and I try to have, listen, having been the subject of some conspiracy theories more recently, I view them all with suspicion now because, you know, I will just tell you, there's like a thousand mistakes that get made in every assumption that leads to conspiracy theories.

Speaker 4 So I try to be very

Speaker 4 cautious, conservative when approaching these things, but there's, it's just, it does seem true that some of this stuff just seems just like there's massive gaping holes in this story.

Speaker 4 And you would think the FBI would be, especially with the turnover of administrations, they would be motivated to clear some of this up.

Speaker 4 I'm excited to see your future reporting, Miranda, because I know that you're going to remain on this now that you've caused quite a stir with this first offering here.

Speaker 6 Thanks so much, Andrew. And that's just the most important message, I think, of all of this is what you just said is none of us want to engage in conspiracy theories.
It drives people mad.

Speaker 6 You've experienced that yourself.

Speaker 6 So many rabbit holes that people plunge down when there's a vacuum of information, when there's a huge huge important story like this, where the president has almost been assassinated and we have a vacuum of information, conspiracy theories rush in.

Speaker 6 So it's really incumbent on those people in charge to just be straightforward and open and honest to the furthest extent that they're able to while maintaining, you know, operational security or national security or whatever it is they're worried about.

Speaker 4 Yeah, well said. Miranda Devine, New York Post, author of The Big Guy.
Thank you so much for your time, Miranda. I know you got a dash.

Speaker 6 Thank you.

Speaker 4 All right. God bless you.

Speaker 4 Blake, are you satisfied with the

Speaker 4 Butler story? You are a very contrarian, non-conspiratorial.

Speaker 2 I feel like the best argument I've heard is that Trump seems pretty satisfied with the other people.

Speaker 4 They're not satisfied, nor is the family.

Speaker 3 Well, he's never said

Speaker 2 that he's super disappointed with it or anything.

Speaker 2 When they ask him about it, he mostly does just say, ah, you know, they've told me this, blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't know.
Like,

Speaker 2 there's always, with big events, there's always a desire to

Speaker 2 have,

Speaker 2 you know, bigger motive, like bigger forces behind it. And I think that leads people down a lot of rabbit holes.
And the Vegas shooting is the most egregious example.

Speaker 2 We had people running around with wild. It was a joint ISIS Antifa operation.
That was one I heard.

Speaker 4 It's a weird one. It was weird.
Shooters are crazy.

Speaker 4 It could just be some crazy guy.

Speaker 2 People who do mass shootings are nuts. They often have idiosyncratic motives that don't make a lot of sense.
Because if you're a person who's sane, you don't try to murder a bunch of people.

Speaker 2 And so, when you dive deep into it, you often get baffling stuff.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I suspect there might be a thing they're hiding where they had contact with him where they should have known he was going to do it.

Speaker 2 But one of the things is just there's a lot of crazy people in America, and not all of them are going to be arrested.

Speaker 4 Sounds true. We'll see you tomorrow, guys.

Speaker 4 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.