THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 109 — Tyler Robinson In Court

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All right, guys, Jack Kasovic. We are live, another edition of Thought Crime Thursday.
We've got breaking news hard and fast in the Tyler Robinson trial. We're on with Blake Knepp.
What's up, Blake?

Howdy. Howdy.
Good to see you, Jack. You as well.
And Cliff Laloney, how are you, Cliff? Doing great. Thanks for having me, gents.
All right, guys. So the judge is currently ruling

on information regarding and motions regarding whether or not cameras will be allowed in the courtroom for Tyler Robinson, who is the accused murderer of Charlie,

our friend. And I've been seeing a lot of information that Judge Graff made a ruling regarding Charlie's, regarding cameras in the courtroom.

However, people need to understand that the ruling that just came down, and I see this going viral online even as we speak, that was only about cameras in the courtroom today, as pertains to this specific hearing and possibly pre-brief hearings in general.

There's also mention, and I've got this from a reporter that

Graf wrote, first keeping stated, that we've set aside the 30th of January, and that might be the one that want to say to argue our anticipated motion that's coming about keeping courtrooms out of the court.

cameras in the courtroom. I want to weigh in as well.
It will be on January 30th. So on January 30th is the one that they're making that ruling for.

They're not making a ruling yet as of this time for the entire courtroom trial. Blake Matthew, you've been watching this.
Is this your understanding as well? Yeah, yeah, that seems right.

It went out in a few places that they'd already ruled, but that's not surprising. Kind of everything about this case seems to take forever, which we complained about on the show today.

And I promptly got an email from another person who works in other murder trials, and she said,

it's just always like this. She said she's seen absolute open and shut gangbanger shooting cases take two years to resolve.

And so that sadly might be like this even for something as basic as getting cameras into the courtroom, which we're all hoping for, I think.

Besides that.

I guess the main thing we've gotten out of this, because people need something to feast on, is we do have really our first

in-a-courtroom video footage of Tyler Robinson? We have people analyzing his facial expressions because there's not too much to analyze otherwise at this point.

Whether the look on his face and profile, which we're showing right now, is he smiling? Is he laughing? A lot of people have had that interpretation.

I'll admit, I've only gotten a chance to look at it a few times. I'm not sure I see laughing.
You can see a sort of grin a few times, but

I could understand if someone said it was otherwise. otherwise.
And by the way, guys, I'm going to share in the chat right now. I just got the

Otter note with the full transcript. So if you guys want to get it in, but yeah, so,

oh, excuse me, the media access

actually January 30th is now moved because the hearing is still going on. So they now move that to February 3rd.
So Blake, to your point, there we go. They're just moving it out again.

They're moving it out. They're moving it out.

I would say, though, if you have, does anyone have that picture of charlie or excuse me charlie of tyler robinson this uh you know where it's kind of zoomed in it's like a zoomed in picture of him and and blake i'll you know to your point um i'll send it in the chat i didn't necessarily see him laughing in this video but there's one spot where that i mean that's just definitely a smile and

You know, there are times where Brian Etton out of News Nation, who does a lot of this reporting, he said that, you know, sometimes it can be a tactic by defense teams to say, try to look more human, try to smile, try to humanize yourself with the jury or any potential jurors who might be watching.

So act normal. And yet

when you see this specific image of him smiling and you see sort of the way that he's acting, I mean, to me, he looks very smug. He looks very smug.
He seems,

it's a grin. It's a grin.
It's a smirk that you see in these images. And we're going to get that up and show you guys in just a second.
But this is,

I'm just going to say it, guys. This was very...

It was hard to watch. All right.
I'm just going to say right now. It was really hard for me to watch and

see this guy yucking it up with his lawyers there at the table and grinning.

Certainly not looking remorseful, certainly not looking as though he's sad that we're in the proceedings for the death of a good man, the death of a father, the death of a husband.

He's just, you know, pretty nonchalant and, you know, having a good time, hanging out like he doesn't have a care in the world. And, you know, I don't know the strategy or what, but

I

got very upset watching this earlier today. And I,

yeah, I can't even really say publicly what I want. to say.
Cliff, I don't know, what do you think? What were your thoughts when you saw this

video? Well, I think this was a big moment for everybody, at least for me. I mean, I texted Tyler about this when I first saw the image of him grinning.

I think the same thing. The same exact thing.
In a weird way, I think all of us are dealing with this in different ways, and it still comes in waves, and sometimes it still doesn't feel real.

This was a moment, right? When he, seeing him like as an actual person, I'm not calling him that. He's

not worthy of being called a human being. He's a piece of garbage.
But it really just made this thing real again.

And I think it was a moment, you know, to see him not just as, you know, hey, this prisoner who we saw briefly in the, you know, the prison garb, but now to be in a dress shirt and a tie, to have people surrounding him defending him.

You know, it's the justice system. It's going to play its way out, but it was tough to watch.
And let me just say this to everybody out there. These trials are going to take time.

Okay, it's going to be frustrating. There's going to be so much that they have to prove that he is a person, that he was there, that there is a campus, the campus exists in Utah.

There are so many, I want to call them preliminary things, but things that for most normal folks, if you've never been into a criminal trial, if you've never seen one, there are so many mundane things that the prosecutors are going to have to prove that are real things.

And to us, it's so obvious, but in the court of law, you have to prove those things. And so I do think we should be prepared for this to be a long, drawn-out battle.

But as Erica said, why not be transparent?

So that is the win that we're looking for we're hoping that this is all going to be on camera not to glamorize him but let the people see what this monster did and let's have an open trial so that there's full transparency i agree with erica on that yeah i really think it's it's one of those things where there's a lot of i think a lot of the issues we've encountered with what people say about this it comes from the the psychic overload that there people have such strong feelings about Charlie and about what happened to him.

They need to engage with it. They need something to react to.

And instead of having an unfolding trial with facts, instead of having all the truly, actually quite lurid information about Tyler Robinson and his private life, I think that could be satiating a lot of them.

But it's taking a long time because these court proceedings take so long. And so they're getting diverted into other things.

I think it's a big argument in favor of we should, as a country, spend more more on our justice system, have more prosecutors, more judges, whatever it takes to have faster hearings, faster trials, faster turnaround on this sort of thing.

Because this is a modern development.

You used to be able to do serious trials with serious evidence and serious proceedings within the last hundred years without nearly as much delay for this sort of thing.

There have been attempted assassins of presidents who are tried, convicted, in a fair trial, and in their cases, executed within a two, three month time window.

You don't necessarily need this to be that fast, but it

feels very disappointing to me that anyone in a high-profile murder case is taking half a year before you're even getting to jury selection. Yeah, and it's going to continue to drag out.

And that's why I'm saying that. Like, I agree with you, but I think it's our job to kind of set the expectation with viewers of the show and people that love Charlie.

This is not going to be a four-month thing, right? This is going to take a long time. There's going to be jury selection.

There's going to be tons of these just things that from an outside perspective, you're going to say, well, who really cares about that? Why are they able to drag it out?

But that's part of the strategy. And sometimes it's for the defense, sometimes it's for the prosecutors, you know, to kind of get the jury mad at the other side or to be frustrated.

But I think, you know, the other thing is selecting a jury in this case, you know, to have a jury that's not tampered or people that haven't seen this. I mean, this is unprecedented, right?

Charlie was everywhere.

I think it's hard to find someone, especially now with the news coverage, that doesn't know who Charlie Kirk is.

And so you're going to have a heck of a jury selection to try to figure out, you know, and some of these rulings are going to be crucial on who the judge lets in, who the judge says, you know, has some sort of bias.

And I think that's going to be a key part, you know, to what the prosecution has to do is to making sure that this isn't some issue that goes to a mistrial later because one of the jurors says that, oh, they weren't familiar with it or they don't know who charlie is or they haven't seen any of these reports i mean this is an oj like we're we're in an age now where everyone has access to social media everyone has access to content so that to me is going to be a very very interesting part of this process

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So, one thing that I'm getting from a friend of mine

who was watching this and does some work in the true crime, you know, kind of like follow-through trial watch.

So, says that Erica was officially made the victim in this. And

something that a lot of people have pointed out that could

come up in terms of some of the firestorm, the media that's already going on, is the Utah witness intimidation law.

And I'll put that out right now. So this is something, and by the way, this is something that comes up in a number of these cases when people

have followed them so closely, but then become so,

shall I say, so targeted at witnesses and victims. So here's what it says.

Under Utah law, a person committing witness stampering or intimidation, if they attempt to improperly influence the testimony of someone they know they might testify, attempt to prevent someone from testifying, threaten, harass, or retaliate against someone because of their role, engage in conduct intending to make a witness fearful, silent, or less cooperative with the justice process, Utah specifically criminalizes threats, harassment, public accusations intended to use credit,

public pressure campaigns that could chill testimony, retaliatory conduct. towards victims or victim advocates with as they know the representatives.

Public statements, even online, can mute the definition if the intent is to affect testimony or cooperation and so uh this is um this is something that has come up in a number of these cases where you know you have this huge community that gets involved but people have to remember that they are active cases and in fact there are laws on the books that govern anyone who can get involved in any way you know

that is that is getting involved in these cases and and that's serious that's a very serious thing and these laws have been on the books for a long time Blake walk us through why we have laws like this I mean we have laws like this because

Those are the things that people do to escape culpability for crimes we

and also frankly a part of it is also they're a way like our glorious Supreme Court has made it difficult to

execute people, unfortunately.

And so one of the ways they've gone about it is they've said you have to have some aggravating factors before we will allow a heinous perpetrator, traitor to face appropriate punishment for their crimes.

And so you definitely see facets of that throughout the indictment of Tyler Robinson, where they threw in that charge for doing something in the presence of a minor.

And I think the witness intimidation stuff comes into that because when you're doing stuff against witnesses, that's another thing that's considered a valid aggravating factor in cases.

And so you get those in play.

They're clearly, they structured the indictment in a way to make sure a court couldn't swoop in later and say there were no aggravating factors, so you can't try to bring the death penalty in this case.

I just want to clear up something, guys, because I have this. So the official term is, and

you know, maya copla, if I use the wrong term, she is recognized as the designated victim representative. So she'd be officially recognized as a designated victim representative.

And so that means she has a right to attend the trial.

But as such, a lot of these witness intimidation laws could potentially, if the judge decides to, cover the designated victim representative as well, which means they cover Erica.

And I mean, Blake, to your point, there's a basic reason we don't want people intimidating victims in a trial because we want actual justice. Well, for the same reason, we want actual justice.

So that's why these laws on witness intimidation also cover victim representative intimidation as well.

Yeah, and if I'm understanding this correctly, why I think this opens up a can of worms in a good way is because now all of a sudden, you know, look, defamation, all of us know, you know, some of the vile things we've seen and some of these horrific things that people say about us or anybody that's involved with Charlie or New Charlie.

you know the standard for defamation is pretty much impossible in the united states i mean for public figures it is pretty much something where to be successful in a defamation case against a public figure, it's just very rare.

But now, I'm hearing this and I'm thinking to myself, you know, now it makes it, I think, much more doable that if Erica or the state wanted to go after somebody that is

literally threatening her in a way or defaming her in a way that could intimidate her as a potential witness or as

the victim representative.

Am I saying that correctly?

Does that open the door where it's much more liable for somebody to go after somebody that now has that label because with defamation it's pretty much impossible yeah it can be it's it's um it's ultimately up to the judge it's ultimately up to prosecutors in this case but yes it does give her an official standing with the court and in the trial so what it means and this has come up in other cases where in other parts of the country where people have been harassed intimidated um and then taken it up with the courts.

And

they've gone back and found rulings on their behalf and said, look, you can't interfere with someone who's directly involved with a trial like this,

what they view as a form of witness intimidation

and actually tampering with a jury trial. And by the way, you know,

just from a personal perspective, I want everyone to comment on this trial. If you disagree, if you think, if you're one of these people who is, I've been calling them the Robin Simps.

So the Tyler Robin Simps who actually support Tyler Robinson and they think that he's completely innocent and think that there's no way he could have done it and think this.

I want the Robin Simps to be out there. I'm not calling for them to be arrested or charged or anything like that.
And I think they have a perfectly fine First Amendment right to be wrong.

But the Robin Simps, people asking questions. You have perfectly

right to ask questions in this country called the First Amendment.

That said, people should be aware that the youth laws are on the book. And that's just why I'm reading that.
Because very simply, I'm just reading here: victims have rights. It's really simple.

There's a bill of rights for victims, and it includes the victim to not be, the freedom to not be publicly harassed, intimidated abuse, protection from accusations, mobilization of followers to harass or attack.

And so this means that, in a sense, and I'm reading this, Erica is now officially tied to the prosecution, and the prosecution can take actions. to protect her.

And that's that's just something to that is going to be another another feature of this case, I believe, going forward. It's possible.

I feel like that would be what you're alluding to would be a stretch, but I guess I would probably appreciate it. But it's not a stretch, it's the law.

Yeah, I mean, it's the law, but it would be, there's laws, and then it's how do you use those laws? I would be, I would be very pleasantly surprised if

we saw it used in that way.

I mean, I don't know. I'm just, I have no idea if it would or it wouldn't, but we have seen people

face charges for victim intimidation before another state. We have, we have.
I'd have to read more on what they specifically did in those cases, though.

Well, again, we're just talking about the liability. So

the fact that she is now the official designation means that there are certain laws that apply to Erica that prior to this did not. And if I had to ask you guys,

how long do you guys think that this lasts? I mean, what's a real, I mean, is it we talking about a year and a half? Are we talking about three months? Like, what's the prediction?

I mean, if you really want to know, if it's a capital case, if he gets the death penalty, he could, this could be a 30-year thing. You've seen how often they love to drag these things out.

Even without that,

it's a great cause of the left to get people who have life in prison out on parole somehow, especially if it is life without parole. We're given that promise all the time and it doesn't pan out.

You see these things.

They love to commute sentences. Nasty, there are just people out there who love criminals.
They love letting criminals get out.

They love letting people who've committed heinous crimes roam free in society again. So I feel rather unfortunately, I just can't truly imagine this being over over

for, tragically, many years. They'll find some way to perpetuate this case far beyond what it should be.
Do we have any intel on how he's funding his defense? I mean, does he come from any money?

Like, is this, are these public defenders? So

it comes from a public pot of money. And

so he's given a public pot of money that was granted to him. This is also under governed by Utah law.

I could pull up in a second exactly about his legal team, but yes, it does come from a public pot of money. And they did give him act because it's a capital case.

they are then giving him access to a higher amount of funds they would if than if it were a uh you know if they were just a misdemeanor case a a felony case but because of a capital murder case they are giving him access to far more funds because of course this is why the state wants this because they don't want um let's say he's convicted they don't want him to be able to come back around on an appeal and say oh i had ineffective uh you know ineffective counsel or something like that got it but yes it is it's taxpayer funded and we'll save the people

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Well, here's something else I want to add, by the way.

So his parents, we are told on reporters who are in the courtroom, including Dan Nees Nation, that his parents did attend the trial, as well as one of his brothers.

And it sounds like his mother was very emotional. It sounds like

she was crying while she was waiting for...

There was a portion of this that was held behind closed doors while they were sort of making arguments regarding the cameras.

And Brian Etton mentioned that his mother was all at one point, they asked for the family to stay in the courtroom, but then the judge actually asked them to leave the courtroom during the during the trial phase or during that argument phase.

And he said the mother was outside in the courtroom, out of the courtroom, just crying. And

look, I keep saying over and over,

you know, for people who have been telling me that, oh, Tyler Robinson, the plants, you know, this isn't, this isn't real. Well, it's sort of like, guys, his.

His parents were the ones who turned him in.

And if they thought their son was innocent, that it was falsely accused, you know, they have all the opportunity in the world to speak to the media, the eyes of the world are on them today.

Not one of them walked up to media and said, my son is innocent.

We have Godwald famously referred to himself as a Patsy.

And you just don't see anyone from the family coming out and saying that

they believe he didn't do it. They believed he was innocent.
just hasn't happened. And it certainly didn't happen today.
They had the opportunity to do so. They did not.

And look, we see these images of Pylo Robinson, these sick images of him. I've just found a new image, by the way.
I'm going to send it as well. Just this sick image of him grinning.

It was very well, very clear that he's grinning and caught in 4K.

He just looks weird, too. I guess that's not the best.
There it is. There it is.
Yeah, there it is.

He really is. He's grinning while Charlie's family is going to go through Christmas without Big Dad.

And he's sitting there dreading. Can we not not talk about how he looks like Veto O'Rourke? Has nobody made that comparison yet?

You're debated. He does.
Wow, he does come out

in that outfit. That was the first time I saw it.
No, I don't know. First time I saw that.
Jack, you made a good point. I want to elaborate on it.
That ruling was interesting when they said, hey,

we need to clear out. We're going to make some decisions about cameras and we're going to have some debate on this.
And I don't want the public in here.

And they obviously, you know, the defense said, hey, we want to request the family can stay and the judge did not go with them right the judge went with the prosecutors but i find that to be very very interesting because a lot of times you'll see judges start to go one direction and if early on they're going the direction of hey we're going to you know be with the defense that becomes a problem if you're obviously rooting for the prosecutors and so i think some of these early decisions uh can kind of show what type of temperament the judge is going to have and for the judge to say that tyler robinson's family does not get special special treatment they are not allowed to stay in the courtroom that all members of the public have to leave i think that's a big win and i don't think we should uh we should glance over that that was a big uh ruling from the judge today

and uh so one other piece for people to understand is that um is that

so people are asking will erica testify and so likely

it's i mean it's certainly possible they can anyone can call uh witnesses but it's more likely that as a victim representative that she will be giving a statement not during the trial phase, but there's two phases to a death penalty trial.

I mean, a death penalty trial in most states, including the state of

the state of Utah, that

the victim doesn't testify until, so there's a conviction, then there's another phase, which is the conviction phase, our testimony brought in, and that's when you hear what are called victim impact statements.

And those victim impact statements are the ones that come in there. I'm told that we have a donation.
Yeah, well, we have Cade in again.

He's a frequent donor. So thank you again, Cade.
He says, hey, friends, hope you are well today.

And thank you very much, Cade. And we have a second one, but it's a lighter topic.

So I would like, I don't want to hit it until we're ready to move on to the next one because I don't want to taint this very serious topic with it. But we are aware of your earlier one.

Who was that from? From B. Jordan.
We'll be reading off yours in a sec here. But do we have anything else we want to hit on this?

I have

one last question. Do we think that he testified Robinson? I mean, technically, we don't even know if he has, he hasn't entered a plea yet, correct? Not a formal plea, no.

Yeah, he might just plead guilty for all we know. Yeah.
He could. So as far as we know, yes, he easily could just

plead guilty. And I'm looking at the chat.
Yeah, in the chat, just most people that I'm... are just appalled the same way that I am to see him smiling, to see him grinning, laughing it up.

Go ahead, man. Lap it up.
Go ahead. Keep laughing it up.
Lap it up as much as you want. Please continue to do so.

Namarstan asked: Can they have cameras in the courtroom or not? They have not ruled on that for a trial.

He ruled that they could have cameras in the courtroom today for today's hearing, but we do not have a ruling on the overall trial. We likely won't have that for many weeks.

That is the cursed reality we live in. We all want to see this move more quickly, but

that is

the situation we have right now.

If both of the sides... Yeah, so the hearing.

The hearing is until February 3rd. So

we've got two months before we even get a next hearing on that.

Just,

yeah,

it's as stressful for us as it is for everyone else, I can assure you. Yeah, and Blake, I actually, when you said 30 years, that kind of hit me in the gut, but you're right.

I mean, this thing could be a very, very long process. I mean, it's truly horrible.

I once read in the 70s, there was a serial killer in Houston, and several of them, in fact, it was a group operation. So, one of them died, and the other went to prison for life.

And due to some glorious quirk of the judicial system, that person is eligible for parole. And so,

they literally were a group that abducted children and murdered them.

And every couple years, the parents of one of their last victims have to go to the court to present their arguments for why the person who murdered their child should not be out on the streets again.

And

this will continue as long as they are alive. And

I just think about what a tragedy that is for a person who, like, their entire life was a waste. They used it to destroy other people's lives.
And we preserve them

for some reason.

I don't understand it. I don't understand why we moved away from

justice as a principle that our state can wield. But that is what we have.
And it leads to a lot of re-traumatization of people like those parents, like Erica Kirk, like a lot of people.

Well, Blake, are you familiar with that case? And Cliff, you might know this because it's Philadelphia of Mumia Abu Jamal. Fry Mumia.

No, kill me.

Yeah, so Mumia, this is a guy who think about this.

He killed a police officer, Black Panthers, who shot a police officer in cold blood before i was born in 1980 well it killed him in 1981 that he sentenced to death in 1982

and

years and years and years go by 20 years go by he's still alive he's still on death row he's filing appeals filing appeals the widow of the police officer who is so young maureen faulkner the wife of danny faulkner you know widow of danny faulkner is is begging over and over

where does justice to be done on this.

And then eventually 30 years after the murder, because things have become so woke in the city of Philadelphia, that in 2011, the prosecution simply agrees to change his sentence to life without parole.

So he gets life without parole using GenPop. And this is what they can do there now.
He became sort of a quasi-celebrity. You have

We have like Rage Against the Machine and all these people coming in for him. And so, Blake, to your point, this is a big problem when we wait so long to execute murderers that

emotions fade, memories fade, people move on to other things and different narratives can get in. In this case, they waited so long that the case was actually taken away.

The sentence was actually taken away. And now we just have life in prosecutions.
And there's a shortage of justice.

Like it people, I think there is a psychic feeling across America that they think there's a lack of justice for things that have gone wrong.

You often hear that in reference to COVID: that lockdowns were obviously a catastrophic decision. A ton of people suffered a lot.

And then nobody ever was really held accountable financially, criminally, socially even for what they did.

Like at a minimum, someone responsible for something that bad should feel a little ashamed to go outside. And that never happened.

And I do feel that's one of the important arguments in favor of capital punishment.

There should be a high-profile way, something that goes on on semi-regularly if you're in a society with crimes that reminds you people who do grave works of evil will be ripped out of society like the cancers that they are.

And I don't think it's a surprise that when you have a society afraid to execute the worst malefactors, you have a society that is increasingly detached from any principle of right and wrong.

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yeah and look i mean i spent a lot of time i mean trump's first term the first step act right a lot of people on the right criminal justice reform we were all about it but here's the big difference we were talking non-violent and this is where i think a lot of people on the left have kind of lost it not just with defund the police but it becomes that any law on the books you know we need to have sympathy for those because the justice system is flawed and it's just not true right obviously the justice system can be flawed but this idea of like soft on crime across the board it's kind of this vicious like

they're just all in on that and to me like you said when you have these things that are very very much not uh what i would call non-violent these horrific crimes i think it should be the opposite like you said we should make an example of these people and i took look i spent a lot of time being against the death penalty probably 10 years and to be frank with you guys this was probably the moment where I realized when something hit close to home with somebody that we knew

that you know it's it's easy to theorize about that and to say, well, you know, I don't trust the government to kill somebody. But in certain circumstances, it is very justified.

And obviously, I believe this is one of those.

We've got a question from a gibberish nation asks, can the feds go back and charge Robinson with causing Charlie to lose his federal rights by murder and thereby seek the death penalty if it is not obtained through the state court?

I suppose the most important question is, is that, do you guys know, is that a capital offense?

Deprivation of civil rights in that matter? That would be an important question. Obviously, we have seen.

You would have to charge him with a form of terrorism, I believe, to be a capital offense.

Yeah, that would be my guess.

I'm sure that that has entered their mind as a way, yeah, terrorism.

Maybe they could get some sort of federal murder charge. They're always creative with those if

they cross federal property to do it or something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if that's on the table, but but part of that is that's one of the things about it taking so long.

Are you going to suddenly come in and charge him if this verdict is finally reached a year from now, a year and a half from now? That is something I'm not sure of.

I'm sure they would make a show of it, but again, by the time that would be done, you might be in a new presidential administration, might be a Democrat. And let's be careful what we wish for.

Obviously, we want justice for Charlie, but you don't want to get in the habit of the federal government coming in and finding some law or something that they can.

I mean, mean, what's John Stousle's book, Three Felonies a Day, right?

If the government wants to come after you, they can. So I do want justice here, but let's just get the win here in Utah

and not try to find a way that the federal government can come in and try to, yeah, the answer to the question is yes. Of course, if the feds wanted to do it, they could try to do it.

It'd be unprecedented, but they could try to do it. I don't think we want to be in the position where the federal government, God willing, it's not J.D.
Vance after 28.

I don't want them backdating things and coming after us for random acts that they deem as some sort of federal offense.

No, but you can, I mean, you certainly can add that, Derek Chauvin got federal charges added to his state charges. So, I mean, this, this wouldn't be the first time that there were two sets of cases.

And I'm not saying it's prudent to necessarily do so, but certainly just in a basic answer to the question, yes, the federal government can do that and certainly have the right to do that.

They did it. All right.

It looks like I just want to say, because they did donate, and we always try to read those. I said I'd do it when we got to change topics, but the chat is super locked into this topic.

So I think we're staying zeroed in on the Robinson saga. But I wanted to call this a so B.
Jordan 24-563 donated $20 and said, appreciate the show, guys. We appreciate you, Jordan.

Hoping the Sharon Moore situation might come up this week. For those who don't know, the coach of Michigan football got caught, I believe, impregnating an undergraduate, not advised.

That would be an amazing topic, but we have a more serious topic that is very close to our hearts that does deserve our full attention this week. But I agree, it is a very fun story.

And again, thank you for your support. Thank you for tuning in.
But

yeah, on this one,

yeah, you're right, turning point. We have to stay focused for Charlie.
We have to watch this case.

Anyone else? Someone's just a Chad89 says, Antifa being a terrorist organization could be enough for a federal charge.

I guess you would have to find, you would have to be able to prove that he even considered himself acting as an agent of Antifa.

So that would be something where if we have a very thorough look at his Discord messages, any chat groups he was in, you might be able to find that.

But

if he's not, if he never uses Antifa to describe himself, if he's not in contact, that could be tough. It's always, there are things that can bring you down.

So I don't, I guess, I would encourage us to view this trial as by far our best shot to get the accountability we want for Robinson.

And we would only consider alternatives if that's just not going to come to pass. That's my thought.

Yeah, and also, as an example, the Maggioni case, depending on where you take this, you know, you got to make sure you have a judge that actually believes in upholding the law.

So, Luigi Maggioni was charged under federal terrorism, and the judge in that case, this liberal judge, actually threw it out.

So, he threw out the terrorism charge because he said that, well, this isn't terrorism that when Mandioni murdered the healthcare CEO. And the judge, as a

liberal, said that it wasn't terrorism because it was only murdering one person and that his actions weren't intended to cause harm or intimidation to others, despite the fact that he...

just like Tyler Robinson, wrote political slogans on his bullet, had a manifesto, had all the intent in the world to spark what he called justice for,

you know,

the issues in the healthcare system, inequality in the healthcare system. And yet, the judge said, and the judge actually imparted his ruling in that, because in the New York,

this is not even a state judge, so I have to make it to double check myself. But I remember it was a terrorism charge, and I thought I'm talking about it.

But he said that the way the statute was written was that it

affected harm to civilians. And under the statute, he ruled that healthcare workers don't count as civilian because that only means the public at large.

It was the most twisted ruling and the most twisted reading of the statute that I've ever seen.

And I'm like, this guy must obviously be a liberal to say that, oh, well, if you work for a healthcare company, you're not a civilian. It's like, yeah, that's exactly how all Marxists think.

Yeah. And one point I'll make, I mean, you know, I've seen a lot of these different cases where the law can say, you know, the sky is blue.

But if a judge says, says, hey, you know, today it's red, it's like, it really,

once again, there are flaws in the justice system. And some of these judges and some of the rulings, it can be as clear as day to all of us.
And, you know, I mean, these judges are elected, right?

Or they're appointed by somebody that we elected. And that system is supposed to work, but sometimes it's just broken and it stinks and you got to power through it.

And so.

I've been asked, say, what is the psychology of a Robin Simp? And I'll ask you guys this. So do you guys know? So a Robin Simper.
So a Robin Simper

is who, and not just ask questions about the public narrative.

You want to ask questions, you want to ask questions about evidence, ask questions about the FBI. Fine, go ahead.
First Amendment right.

But there are people that are full-on Tyler Robin Simper who are just like, this guy didn't do it. I don't believe the parents.
I don't believe any of it. You know, he needs to get off.

We need to work to get him off. That makes you a Robin Simper.

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And are you guys familiar with the turn pro-burgers? Have you guys ever heard this? Pro burgers? Pro burgers? I only eat amateur burgers, Jack. Yeah, yeah.

But do you guys remember Brian Coburger as in the murderer up in Idaho of those sorority girls? Oh, oh, the guy who looks like

Richard Hinania crossed with Josh Hawley. And kind of looked a little bit like Tyler Robinson, because Yagamu doesn't lie.

So the pro-Burgers are a subset of the true crime community where they completely believe that Brian Koberger is innocent, that he was set up, that someone else did that.

And they have formed, it's kind of a mini cult. They have this parasocial relationship with a variety of people who lead the pro-burger cult.
And it's basically like a fandom cult of him.

They have shrines, they have song, they have like edits of Brian Coeberger. Obviously, you see this a lot with Luigi Maggioni to a great extent.

And

you even see people taking trips to go and visit the places associated with Brian Koberger because they believed so strongly in

his innocence, but it's so far beyond just,

you know, oh, I think this guy didn't do it. It's literally become their identity because I don't know if it's like you don't have meaning at home or you're disconnected and disassociated with life.

It is female coded, sad to say, which is true.

It is very female coded where, yeah, they will completely allow this to subsume their identity.

Well, what's funny is I have to imagine really deep down,

they would not want him to be innocent because clearly their actual thought is that he did do it. They just...
This is weird to say, they think it's hot, I guess. Like, he's this dark killer person.

Like, I don't think they would find this guy terribly interesting if he wasn't a murderer. Hybristophilia.
What's that at one?

Hypothelia. So hybridia is a

hybrid. I'm sorry if my audio is being

messed up again. So hybristophilia is a paraphilia.
It's a type of sexual attraction for people who commit serious crimes.

You saw this with the

Columbine shooters. You see this with a variety of fillers.
You saw this with the Boston bombers, El Gardana,

where people who are, I believe it was,

oh, gosh, there are certain Ted Bundy got married while he was still in jail.

And, you know, they believe that they are super attracted sexually to bad boys, criminals, obvious, and they want those typical risky, you know, risky relationships.

And so they're attracted to criminals. So yeah, Ted Bundy,

I wouldn't surprise me if there were people who were attracted to Jeffrey Dahmer. It's absolutely a certain paraphilia that's out there.
and it's this desire for intense, risky relationship.

Yeah, you mean did Jeffrey Dahmer get letters in jail just saying, like, please eat me, Jeffrey, please?

Yeah, and this is why you see, I mean, a lot of the true crime documentaries, it's kind of wild to me how many of these serial killers have so many lovers, right, that they're exchanging letters with.

I mean, it directly comes from, like you said, that weird desire to be with the bad boys, if you will. You even get funnier version, funny sub-versions of that, like

didn't Martin Shkrelly had that journalist fall in love with him while he was in jail? And I think she, did she leave her, she like left her boyfriend or even left her husband over it?

And this was a purely non-physical relationship. He was in prison the whole time.
And then he got out, and I think they quite promptly broke up once he was out of prison. Weird.
Weirdly.

Yeah, so Martin Skrelly, exactly. But Martin Skrelly did nothing wrong.

Jack's part of the cult. I love it.

No, Martin Shrelly was not a murderer. Martin Shrelly was a pharma bro.
Oh, oh, okay, got it, got it. Yeah, it's a little like his crime.
It felt odd.

I just felt like it wasn't spectacular enough to get a woman swooning for you over it. But she was really into it.

And then he, man, I haven't heard about that guy since he kind of tried to get Baron Trump into that crypto thing.

But I guess that's getting a little off topic.

He's on Twitter. I see him there every once in a while.
He does like spaces and stuff.

And guys, just do me a favor. Throw that picture of Tyler Robinson up again from the court today.
Please do that. You want to get pain with all of us.
Just do it.

Because

there is something I want to say when we look at this picture. This is not the behavior of a Patsy, guys.
This is not the behavior. This is not the way it would look.

This is not the way that a person would comfort themselves if they were thinking, oh, I was set up. Oh, I shouldn't be here.
Oh,

you got to get me out. I was falsely accused.
This guy doesn't look upset at all. I didn't see

in a single one of these images or videos, any image of him actually looking upset. It's not there.
He's happy. He's grinning.
He's smug. He's smug about what he did.

And look, you know, say what you want about me. I don't really care.
Honestly, I've never cared. People probably all sorts of things, but this guy, this guy's sitting there looking smug.

He's sitting there looking smug. And it's as simple as that.
The other thing that bothers me is the longer that this case goes, it's just going to continuously be more attention.

I mean, obviously, I want attention to honor Charlie, but it's just going to be more fodder for all the trolls, right?

Every time that this is live, every time it's out there, every time there's something new, and this grin, obviously, you know, the first time we're seeing him, it should make us all burn inside.

And I'm sure the people that, you know, praise him and the people that celebrated the death of Charlie, you know, they love seeing that, right?

This gives them something else to share, something else to celebrate. And they're just pieces of garbage.
I'm going to continue to say that. Absolute and utter pieces of

garbage.

Plague, do you say you had something? Yeah, well,

we have a good, we have a nice message. We have this one from Kyrie McAllen, another, I see her in the chat all the time.

Kyrie donated to 10 and says, please give us who love Charlie, his family, the Charlie Kirk show team, and all the teams of Turning Point some practical ways that we can share the arrows, as Ali Stuckey says, that are being directed at all of you.

You know, I think the best way is

know the details of this case. Read the indictment.
Charging documents are online. The evidence against him is online.
And you can also go read, search a guy named Turkey Tom.

There's a video you can look up called, I believe it is The Man Who Killed Charlie Kirk. Obviously, he's presumed innocent, but that is the title of the video.

Let me make sure I have that exactly right.

Okay, it is titled The Man Who Killed Charlie Kirk. And there's also a, if you prefer reading, there's a substack post that you can find by the same person.

And what it gets into is it gets into the evidence about his personal life, his relationship with his boyfriend,

the evidence, you know, the stuff people have said is weird, such as him calling his boyfriend my love in their messages, the guy saying that is in fact how they talk to each other.

If you guys want to help share the arrows, learn those facts because the most common thing you see is you see the

Robin Simps, as they're calling them, who are going to just say, oh, he's a Patsy, oh, there's no evidence for this, oh, I think it's all fake.

In truth, I think they're saying this because this is a drawn-out process and not enough of it is on TV basically for them to feel like it's real, but it is real.

The evidence in this case, we believe, is quite strong.

If we thought it was fake, if we thought they had the wrong guy, we would obviously be freaking out because we care deeply that the correct person be brought to justice for this.

So, the best way you can share those arrows is know those facts. So, if it comes up in passing, you're able to say, oh man, did you hear about this? Did you hear about the stuff that they were into?

Did you hear about this nesting? Because

it really is a bizarre case. You could make a fascinating, there will be fascinating true crime documentaries about all of this one day because it is lurid.
It is incredibly upsetting to see the life

the lives that these people were leading and to think that this allowed a person to go and to just go and randomly strike down a person as great as charlie so maybe you have your own thoughts cliff but that's my thought on how to share the load yeah i mean of course referring to you know the public perception of what's happening in the trial but i also want to say what would charlie want us to do to share the arrows is to go do the work, right?

Obviously, I'm not always going to pitch that we got to be out chasing ballots, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't.

Get out there, you know, get involved, find a way to advance our cause when it comes to the political scene, when it comes to the ideology of trying to reach new people.

That's the way to share it, right? I'm not saying you have to ignore the trial. Obviously, we're all going to follow along.

We're rooting for justice for Charlie, but at the same time, we have to double down. We have to go out there.
Turning point has to survive.

Turning point has to thrive in terms of not just campus, but all the turning point action, all the efforts, the things that we're doing. That's what this is all about.

And when I think about what Charlie would be telling me right now, it would be, yes, honor him,

follow the trial, but at the end of the day, we cannot get distracted. And what I mean by that is not that we're going to not give him the homage that he deserves, but he would want us to do the work.

And so for all of you out there that have done certain things, whether it was 2024 or before, 2026 is coming up.

And that's a huge opportunity for us to get involved and to truly make a difference when it comes to figuring out ways to do the work as Charlie would want us to do. Exactly, exactly.

Like, in the end, a lot of the nastiest stuff that's said, it's said because it wants to

hurt the mission. It's people, people on the left who promoted, oh, actually, a MAGA guy did this.
They say that for ideologically motivated reasons. And people from other aspects do it.

They want to, ultimately, for whatever thing is going through their head, they want to tear down the things that Charlie fought for, the things that Charlie died for.

And so along with what I suggested, Cliff is absolutely right. Do the work.
You want to be engaged. If you're in Indiana, we've been talking about that.

They just had that vote on their redistricting map and it failed. It failed not because of Democrats.
It failed because of Republicans.

And so we've been saying turning point action will be taking action on that. If you're in that state, that is an easy way to get involved with something right now that is relevant.

But I know other people are saying they want to find out other facts.

some people mentioned uh paramount tactical i was just looking at their videos the other day they have great videos just talking about the details of the case how we can know what happened or why some things people are saying about the bullet for example there's been a lot of claims oh this bullet could not possibly have been what killed charlie and there's some great paramount tacticals one there's other gun experts who've dived into that and believe me you'll hear from more you'll hear more from us on that in just a matter of uh a few days but uh we have, I think, one more message here, and then we'll close it out because we have this hard out here.

EB Dim the 9th. Ebdim the 9th? I'll go with that.
Ebdim the 9th. Be blessed in the Lord, brother Blake and crew.
Thank you so much for that. Thank you to everyone who tuned in for this.
And

we'll see you next week. Amfest, I believe we're doing thought crime.
on stage at Amfest next week. We encourage you to tune into that and tune into every other part of Amfest.

Until then, and until always, keep committing thought crime.

For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.