The Deck Investigates S1 | Part 1

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Speaker 7 Hi, everyone. I know I'm technically supposed to be off this week, but I never like to leave the feed totally empty.
And I actually do still have a card for you today, and it might be a familiar one.

Speaker 7 Our card this week is Darlene Hulse, the Four of Hearts from Indiana.

Speaker 7 Now, many of you know Darlene's story. My reporter Emily and I spent almost a full year investigating her case.

Speaker 7 And the more we uncovered, the more I realized that this was bigger than than one deck episode. It had to be its own series.
So we brought it to you in the show we called The Deck Investigates.

Speaker 7 Over in that feed, I took you through an 18 episode investigation into her case.

Speaker 7 I even traveled the country to tell you about the case in person because I wanted to make sure as many people as possible joined us in fighting for justice for Darlene and her family.

Speaker 7 who after 40 years now still don't know what happened to her. And I wish I was here to tell you that we did it, that Darlene's case has been solved.
But unfortunately, that's not the case yet.

Speaker 7 We still have a job to do, which is to keep pushing for answers. And I won't stop sharing Darlene's story until that day comes.

Speaker 7 So that's one of the reasons that today I'm dropping that full series in this feed. I've taken all 18 episodes and combined them into three mega episodes to give you right now.

Speaker 7 The other reason I'm doing this is I want to test something new.

Speaker 7 I want to understand if you like a mini-series in 18 separate episodes, or if you'd rather have our investigations in this feed, in longer format. So please take some time and listen.

Speaker 7 And if you haven't already, please share it with everyone you know.

Speaker 7 And when you're done, make sure you go follow the Deck Investigates feed because there might be something new coming over there soon.

Speaker 7 And make sure to reach out via email or Instagram and let me know what you think about this format. So here is season one of the deck investigates.

Speaker 7 A little over two years ago, I came across an old news article.

Speaker 7 It was about an old unsolved murder that I had never heard of in a tiny Indiana town that I had only ever passed on my way to somewhere else.

Speaker 7 When I reached out to the victim's daughter on Facebook, I had no idea that I would spend the next two years of my life living and breathing this case, dumping every resource I had into solving it.

Speaker 7 But that's precisely what happened.

Speaker 7 I pulled in one of our reporters, Emily, and basically made this her full-time job. But even in the early days, I didn't know what this was.
We didn't set out to make a whole series about this case.

Speaker 7 But the more we dug in, the more secrets we uncovered. And the more secrets we uncovered, the more holy shit moments we had.

Speaker 7 Because not only does this 38-year-old cold case have what it needs to get solved literally tomorrow, but the person responsible may have been hiding in plain sight all along.

Speaker 7 Over the course of this series, I'm going to take you along as we hit the backroads of Argus, Indiana, looking for evil truths, the kind that you never expect to find in small Midwestern towns.

Speaker 7 And I'll take you along as we uncover facts that have never been reported until now.

Speaker 7 This is the untold story of Darlene Hulse, the Four of Hearts from Indiana. I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is the Deck Investigates.

Speaker 7 This is episode one, take a bath.

Speaker 7 On August 17th, 1984, in a small middle-of-nower Indiana town called Argus, eight-year-old Marie Hulse was at home with her mom and two little sisters.

Speaker 7 It was a Friday morning at the tail end of their summer break, and since dad was at work, Marie and her six-year-old sister Melissa were going to have to tag along to their baby sister's doctor's appointment in the nearby town of Plymouth.

Speaker 7 Their mom, Darlene, told them to take a quick bath and get washed up before they left, while she got baby Kristen ready in the other room.

Speaker 7 The two girls were waist deep in water when all of a sudden there was a knock at the front door. door.

Speaker 7 Marie thought she heard their mom say something like, she wasn't expecting a package or delivery or she didn't order anything.

Speaker 7 They tried to listen closer for more, but there weren't words. Instead, there was weird noises coming from the front room of the house.
It was a sound Marie has never forgotten.

Speaker 33 He was grunting and grunting. I thought it was a puppy.

Speaker 33 I thought my parents had literally got us a puppy. I told Melissa that in the tub.
I was like, do you hear that? It's a dog. And it was like growling and grunting.

Speaker 7 Marie hopped out of the tub and she was so excited about the idea of a new puppy that she didn't even stop to dry off or put on clothes before running down the hallway.

Speaker 7 Their dad Ron had surprised them before with a new dog, so this idea wasn't out of left field. In fact, that exact week, their dog Ling was at a breeder's house for a consultation about puppy making.

Speaker 7 The hulses lived in a long one-story ramp-style house, so when Marie got out of the tub, she ran down the hallway toward the den where the front door was.

Speaker 7 But when she rounded the corner, she froze because there was no puppy, just a man pushing her mom down on the floor.

Speaker 7 He was on his knees straddling her mom Darlene trying to put duct tape over her eyes and mouth. In that moment, at eight years old, Marie didn't know what was going on.

Speaker 7 She didn't know this man and he wasn't saying anything. He just continued grunting and growling.
Her baby sister, who was last in her mother's arms, was nowhere to be found.

Speaker 7 Through all the confusion, she knew something was wrong.

Speaker 33 My mom was yelling, yo, don't hurt my babies, or something to that effect. She was, I mean, screaming.
She was, y'all, she was flailing. Like, I'm talking like,

Speaker 33 I know she scratched him. I know that she got pieces of him.
and he was dragging her by her hair.

Speaker 7 Completely terrified, little Marie started screaming and she ran towards the kitchen phone.

Speaker 7 This was 1984, so not only was there no 911 system yet in Marshall County, Indiana, the Holstes had a rotary phone.

Speaker 7 But Marie knew she needed to call for help, so she started that slow circle dial of one of the only phone numbers she had memorized, her Aunt Nancy's.

Speaker 33 He was already coming around the corner. But

Speaker 33 I did get through. I got a busy signal.

Speaker 7 As the busy tone beeped in her ear, Marie looked up just as the man came around the corner, dragging her mom by the hair behind him.

Speaker 33 I just remember him coming towards me and ripping the phone out and me thinking, he's going to get me now. He's going to get me.

Speaker 33 And I think that's when she said she, to run,

Speaker 35 run.

Speaker 33 But it was so...

Speaker 36 jarbled.

Speaker 33 You know, it was just

Speaker 33 chaos. And he never spoke a word.
I do remember that he never spoke.

Speaker 7 In that moment, she got a really good look at the guy. He was skinny, but not scrawny, and clean-cut with blondish, two-toned hair combed over to one side.

Speaker 7 The guy was wearing normal clothes, like a brown shirt with stripes and tan-colored pants and brown shoes.

Speaker 7 Marie remembers in that moment thinking that this guy didn't look like a super scary person, but because he was hurting her mom, he must have been a bad guy.

Speaker 7 Just when he tried to grab Marie, Darlene screamed for Marie to run.

Speaker 33 I remember her saying, don't hurt my babies. And she was screaming,

Speaker 33 blood-curdling screams while she was fighting. So there were grunts and it was just like surreal.
It was completely surreal.

Speaker 7 By that point, Marie knew they were in serious danger and she had to get her sister before running for help. Now, this all went down in just a matter of seconds.

Speaker 7 So six-year-old Melissa was just getting getting out of the bathtub when she heard Marie come back down the hallway. But instead of announcing or introducing a new puppy, Marie was frantic.

Speaker 33 She came back and she was like, no, get out now, get out now.

Speaker 7 You're the one that told me something wasn't right and I had to leave.

Speaker 7 After alerting her sister, Marie took off back down the hallway and ran through the kitchen and out the back door that led outside.

Speaker 7 And Melissa, not knowing what was the matter, ran toward the front door.

Speaker 7 When she rounded the corner, she saw the man pinning her mom down on the carpet, and he was hovered over Darlene in a way that put his back towards Melissa.

Speaker 7 But Darlene started screaming at Melissa to get out, and the man turned around and spotted her.

Speaker 33 I just remember him looking at me as I ran out the door, like, never lunged for me, never

Speaker 38 nothing.

Speaker 7 But he was on his knees.

Speaker 33 So when I first looked down the hall, I want to say I saw just the top of his head.

Speaker 39 And then when I came out, then he looked up.

Speaker 7 The man didn't say anything to Melissa either. She remembered his face being totally expressionless.
The only one speaking any words was Darlene.

Speaker 40 Yeah, she just kept saying, Melissa, get out.

Speaker 40 And then just let the children go. That's all she said.

Speaker 7 Still completely naked and soaking wet, the girls ran from their house to the dirt and gravel road, passing a car that they didn't recognize parked in their driveway.

Speaker 33 I remember turning around and looking at the car. I looked at it because I was looking to see if Melissa was following me.

Speaker 7 Or the guy.

Speaker 33 I remember turning around looking thinking, is he gonna follow me? So I did, I remember looking at it.

Speaker 7 It was a huge clunker of a car, dirty and green with rust all across the bottom. And it was pulled right up into the driveway.

Speaker 7 Marie noticed that it had big round taillights and a big long body with a big trunk. And she remembers thinking that it looked old.

Speaker 7 Like, you know, how in the mid-80s, cars were pretty boxy, but their bodies were smaller than cars that were made in the 70s, that were basically just massive boats on wheels.

Speaker 7 Well, that's what Marie saw: a massive, rusty, ugly boat of a car that was chalky green, like not just in color, but the paint job itself was bad.

Speaker 7 To Marie's relief, as she was running and looking back at the car, she spotted her sister coming out the front door.

Speaker 33 I do remember seeing Melissa run behind me. I saw her and I thought, I'm going to get there faster.
I've got to get there faster. And Melissa was screaming, crying, but I could see her.

Speaker 33 And see, we weren't allowed to cross the road. And I do remember thinking, I don't have any clothes on and this is not even hurting my feet.

Speaker 33 I had, I had a, because I always try to walk without shoes or whatever. And I remember thinking, this isn't even hurting.
I can run faster than I've ever ran before.

Speaker 7 I remember thinking that.

Speaker 7 They had turned right out of the house, running down the road toward the next crossing, which was this busy highway. They were headed to their grandparents' house who lived just on the other side.

Speaker 33 We're eight and six. I've gotten spanked before for going across the road.
And I remember thinking, I'm going to get in trouble. Nope, I got to go.
And I just just took off across the road.

Speaker 7 They knew that's where they needed to go for help. Marie says that as she's running to her grandparents, she felt like she was flying.

Speaker 33 We were fast as lightning, okay? When you know the distance between there does not take but just like two, three minutes if you're running fast.

Speaker 7 Marie got to her grandparents' house first and relief flooded her when she spotted her grandma, Doris.

Speaker 33 Grandma was in the window. You know, they have like those wind chimes because they didn't have air.
And I remember the wind chimes and she was standing at the sink and I said, someone's hurting mom.

Speaker 33 You need to call. And she's like, what? She didn't even, I was talking too fast.
And she just couldn't, she couldn't understand. I was like, someone has mom.

Speaker 33 And she just couldn't process what I was saying. I was like, call the police.
She goes, I don't understand. I was like, call the police.

Speaker 7 Meanwhile, Melissa had almost caught up to Marie. But when she got to the edge of Highway 31, there was a car coming.
So she had to stop and let them pass.

Speaker 7 And I wonder about this person a lot, if they're still out there, if they even knew what they saw that day.

Speaker 7 A six-year-old girl, wet, naked, crying, barefoot, standing on a dirt road at the edge of a highway. Would things have been different if they would have stopped?

Speaker 7 Would we still be asking the questions that we are today? Unfortunately, unless they come forward, we may never know.

Speaker 7 That car went by and Melissa darted across the highway to meet Marie and her grandma just as Doris was dialing the number for the Marshall County Police Department.

Speaker 7 Doris relayed to police what her granddaughters told her and the police dispatched the closest unit to get to the Holst home as soon as possible for an armed robbery in progress.

Speaker 7 Doris stayed on the phone with them while Marie and Melissa propped themselves in their grandparents' front window to watch for police to go save their mother.

Speaker 33 And then I remember her being on the phone with the police and because it was a dirt road, we heard the police cars come and we were watching out the window and they went past the road and she went nuts.

Speaker 33 I do remember that because she's like no and she's on the phone she's like you've missed it you've missed it go back you've just passed the road.

Speaker 33 Then do you remember seeing them come like circle back and go back down the correct road? I do but then my grandmother pulled me away from the window. Do you think she was coming to the realization of

Speaker 33 what was happening or how serious it was?

Speaker 33 She She asked me where Kristen was and I didn't know and I got really scared that I was in trouble because I didn't know where you were. I just remember the primary concern is where is Kristen?

Speaker 33 And then I think Melissa knew more about that because she was the last one to run out.

Speaker 7 Kristen, who is almost in her 40s today, doesn't remember anything about that day because she was still in diapers. But her sisters have struggled with the fact that they couldn't find her.

Speaker 33 I'll never forget one time Wilsa said the one thing that she regrets was not getting me, not grabbing me when they were, you know, were running out.

Speaker 7 With Darlene and baby Kristen at the house with a crazed man, Doris didn't know what to think.

Speaker 7 She knew something was wrong based on what her granddaughters were able to relay through sobs, but she couldn't have known the horror that awaited.

Speaker 7 Marie was hopeful that she had run so damn fast that her mom and baby's sister would be okay.

Speaker 33 I mean, it happened so fast. And so, all of a sudden, just a million people were at my grandparents' house, and cops were there.
And I just remember them saying,

Speaker 33 the baby's been found, but the mom is not there.

Speaker 7 I'm going to take you into the crime scene and the search for Darlene in episode two, A Stranger's Wrath. You can listen to that right now.

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Speaker 7 Everett Fish was the reserve officer who passed 20B Road. The dirt roads off the highway aren't well marked and it's easy to do.
I even missed it my first time up there.

Speaker 7 It took about 0.2 seconds for him to realize what he'd done and make a U-turn back toward the Hulse house, which was just a stone's throw away from the highway with a cornfield and a barn between.

Speaker 7 The first thing Officer Fish did when he pulled up was look for any cars or suspicious activity. And keep in mind, Officer Fish didn't know much yet.

Speaker 7 He'd just been told that there was possibly an armed robbery at the house with a woman inside. When he finally pulled up, he didn't see any cars at the house.

Speaker 7 So he got on his radio and relayed that to Marshall County authorities.

Speaker 7 Then Officer Fish got out of his police car, grabbed his shotgun from the back seat, and as he walked toward the house, he noticed something.

Speaker 7 On the ground in front of the house was blood. A long trail of it that led from the driveway right up to the front door.

Speaker 7 That's when he got back on his radio and was like, Hey, whatever this was, it's more than that now. And it's not looking good, so I'm gonna need some backup.

Speaker 7 And just then, he heard something so foreign in that moment. The last thing he ever expected expected to hear.

Speaker 7 It was a baby crying.

Speaker 7 Officer Fish approached the front door, and before opening it, he called out, announcing himself as police. But there was no response, just more crying.
Fish knew he couldn't wait.

Speaker 7 He threw open the front door and stepped inside.

Speaker 7 This is episode two:

Speaker 7 A Stranger's Wrath.

Speaker 7 Officer Fish was shocked when he opened the door and found a crying baby in just a diaper and covered in blood. But not her blood, it seemed.

Speaker 7 You see, Officer Fish was also a trained EMT, so he was able to discern just by doing a once-over that the baby was okay.

Speaker 7 Yes, she was covered in blood, but she didn't have any obvious wounds and there didn't seem to be any fresh bleeding.

Speaker 7 He also thought it was a good sign that she was crying because that meant she was breathing fine.

Speaker 7 But just to be safe, he radioed for an ambulance to come right away, both for the baby and for whoever was taken out of the home if they could find them. And Fish knew they needed to find them soon.

Speaker 7 Just from the looks of things, that person lost a lot of blood. They had to be seriously hurt, if not already dead.

Speaker 7 The blood trail he found outside extended into the house, from the front door to the living room carpet.

Speaker 7 That's where the brunt of the attack seemed to have taken place, because there were streaks and small pools of blood in the carpet, as well as smears on the slate tile by a wood stove near the front entrance.

Speaker 7 And a struggle had clearly taken place because the stove's fireplace tools were scattered on the floor.

Speaker 7 Within about three minutes, Lieutenant Ed Criswell from the Sheriff's Office and Indiana State Police Trooper Dan Ringer got there.

Speaker 7 Lieutenant Criswell took baby Kristen outside to meet the EMS crew. And together, Ringer and Officer Fish started through the house with guns drawn to see if anyone else was inside.

Speaker 7 They checked every inch of the house. The bathroom, bedrooms, closets, laundry room, kitchen, even the basement.
All clear.

Speaker 7 Once they gave that all clear inside, other police units arrived and checked the outside of the home, looking for anyone or anything.

Speaker 7 But the outside left more clues than in because the blood trail stopped right at the driveway where a car would have been parked.

Speaker 7 And beyond the driveway in the road, there was a skid mark pointing eastbound, which is the opposite direction of the highway and the opposite direction that the girls ran in.

Speaker 7 If you leave the Hulse house going that way, it doesn't really lead to anything. I mean, if you look at the road from the house, all you can see are trees and fields.
There aren't any other houses.

Speaker 7 But if you take that road, it just takes you east and then south and then eventually feeds you out onto another highway, 110, which if you wanted, you can take 110 right back to 31.

Speaker 7 And you can basically do a big square.

Speaker 7 While some officers and detectives were formulating a plan for how they were going to track down the vehicle and bring Darlene home, others were charged with finding Darlene's husband, Ron Hulse.

Speaker 7 They phoned him at Young Door, which was a door manufacturing company in the neighboring town of Plymouth.

Speaker 7 And police basically just said something had happened at his house and they were sending a unit to come get him. Now, if they were coming to get him, Ron knew that it was bad.

Speaker 7 So while he waited, he called his parents' house. I mean, they lived just a stone's throw away, so surely they knew what was happening.

Speaker 7 His mom, Doris, answered, and she told him that the kids were okay, but that police couldn't find Darlene.

Speaker 33 I remember my dad coming through the door and him just sobbing, like, they've got to find her, they've got to find her. He just kept mumbling stuff over and over again.

Speaker 33 Like he was just crying, absolutely crying. And I just remember my dad saying, we're going to do everything we can to get her back.
We're going to get her back. We're going to find her.

Speaker 33 We're going to find her. And he's like, I would give up.
I remember he said to me, I would give up everything if we could find your mom. He goes, I would give up all of this.

Speaker 33 I just, I just, I would give up everything I have to find your mom. Like, why would they not find? I did not even process that it was more than that.

Speaker 33 I didn't get that she was in humongous danger. I didn't get that she could go away and not come back.
It never really crossed my mind.

Speaker 7 Seeing their dad, who was usually so reserved and in control, break down like that was scary for the girls. I mean, again, they were so little and they were confused.

Speaker 7 And on top of all of that, they were uncomfortable. There were police showing up at their grandparents' house wanting to talk to them about what had happened.

Speaker 7 And there were also all these grown men standing around asking them questions, and they just wanted to go home and put on some damn clothes.

Speaker 7 That feeling of being scared and vulnerable haunted them for a long time.

Speaker 5 They were like, we need clothes.

Speaker 33 I had a blanket on and I had nightmares for a very long time about going places without clothes on.

Speaker 7 Marie and Melissa told police what the man looked like and described his car.

Speaker 7 And pretty soon there were dozens of law enforcement agents out searching for a green or bluish-green early 70s rusty car with a blonde man driving. And that was the first issue.

Speaker 7 What in the world color was this car? And I know it sounds simple, but Marie and Melissa each saw something something slightly different. Marie called the car green and Melissa called it more blue.

Speaker 7 Other witnesses that they would eventually talk to say light green, maybe dark green with a light top.

Speaker 7 I've spent more time thinking about this car than I like to admit, but I think it bothers me so much because it seems so straightforward. Was it blue or was it green?

Speaker 7 I really focus on what the girl said. A lot of people try and discount their recollection or will tell you to take their accounts with a grain of salt because they were so young and traumatized.

Speaker 7 But I believe that car is burned into their brains. Just, how is it burned in in two different colors?

Speaker 33 One of us said it was like a pea green and the other one said it was more like a blue-green color from day one.

Speaker 7 And I don't know how that happened.

Speaker 41 I don't know how.

Speaker 33 That frustrates me to this day that... we couldn't agree on the color.

Speaker 7 Noah could have solved this whole color mystery. Not some fancy equipment.
Run of the mill paint swatches.

Speaker 7 And so last year, that is exactly what we used to get to the bottom of this 38-year-old enduring mystery.

Speaker 7 Last time Emily met with Marie, Melissa, and Kristen, they were talking about this, about how they both saw something different.

Speaker 7 Marie actually whipped out one of those paint swatch fan decks from her utility room, and they found the exact color that they both remember. Now, their memory hadn't changed.

Speaker 7 That was the color, and they both saw the same color. It's teal green.
The problem is that Melissa sees that color as a shade of blue, and Marie sees that as a shade of green.

Speaker 7 We actually took a picture of the color that they agreed on, and you can see that on our website. But this provided a ton of clarity about the actual color of the suspect's car.

Speaker 7 Unfortunately, no one thought to do that in 1984. So in the bulletin that went out to the area, police called the car blue-green.

Speaker 7 That bulletin also included other details that the girls remembered about the rust and the old age of the car as well.

Speaker 7 By mid-morning, dozens of officers were looking for that car and that man.

Speaker 7 But more importantly, Darlene.

Speaker 7 At the same time they were searching, technicians were collecting evidence from the Hulse home. They recovered some bloody rocks near the front stoop.

Speaker 7 On the front porch, they found some hair, a piece of gray duct tape on the front step, a white sock, and just inside the door was a Nike tennis shoe and another piece of duct tape.

Speaker 7 In the dining room, they collected a smock that had seemingly been ripped off Darlene in the struggle. One of the buttons had flung over by the baby's crib that was set up in the front room.

Speaker 7 In the kitchen, investigators found the phone cord that had been pulled out of the wall receiver. They dusted for fingerprints on the phone receiver itself, but came up with nothing.

Speaker 7 The bedrooms were mostly undisturbed except for one small blood spot on Darlene's bed, which was photographed and attributed to Kristen looking around the house for her mother when she was left alone.

Speaker 7 They moved on to the fireplace tools that were strewn about the front entrance of the house. And that's when they noticed something that they hadn't before.

Speaker 7 A part of the fireplace poker was missing. You know how wood fire stoves come with basically this like carousel of tools? There's usually a shovel, a broom, tongs, poker, maybe a hook?

Speaker 7 Well, the rod part of the poker was gone. Their assumption was that the poker was potentially what Darlene had been hit with.

Speaker 7 Now, this was just a guess. The girls had run from the house before the man ever hit their mother, and she wasn't bleeding when they left.

Speaker 7 But if the officers were betting betting men, they would have put money on it. This meant that the killer hadn't come with a weapon.

Speaker 7 This was a crime of opportunity, or even if something was planned, what was planned wasn't murder. Things had clearly gotten out of control.

Speaker 7 Darlene surprised her attacker with more than he was bargaining for when he barged in. And she must have made him angry.

Speaker 7 Because what he was able to do to her in the few minutes between the girls running from the home and the attacker fleeing with Darlene spoke volumes. And they had to find her now.

Speaker 7 But in a town of 1,500 people, the places an assailant could have taken Darlene were limited. Police went scouring nearby fields and checking under bridges while other officers went knocking on doors.

Speaker 7 The early canvas efforts were tricky because as I said, the Hulses didn't have any super close neighbors.

Speaker 7 So state and county law enforcement had to widen their radius to within a few miles of the Hulse home. And they worked to talk to anyone within that bubble

Speaker 7 most people hadn't seen or heard anything unusual that morning a few people mentioned a book salesman who had been frequenting the area sometimes they added a detail about a green car but that was the only stranger they encountered in recent weeks police also asked ron to come to the house to look around and see if anything of value was missing They wanted to know what exactly they were dealing with because there's a difference between a robbery gone wrong and a crazed abductor on the loose snatching housewives.

Speaker 7 I'm sure it was awful for Ron to see his home with blood all over the carpet. But he said that the only thing missing was the fireplace poker and of course his wife.

Speaker 7 Everything else was still there, even the cash that had been left sitting out on the piano.

Speaker 7 While he was there, Ron was able to grab some overnight clothes for his daughter since they'd all probably have to stay with his parents for a while.

Speaker 7 And speaking of his parents, back at their house, police interviewed his dad Harvey Hulse, who said that this whole thing was even more shocking to him because he had just seen Darlene and the girls that very morning at like 8.45 when he biked over to drop off some mushy bananas for baby Kristen.

Speaker 7 This actually helped police with their timeline because that meant that the man showed up and likely attacked Darlene sometime between 9 when Harvey left and 9.30 when the girls showed up at their grandparents' house.

Speaker 7 Harvey said that he hadn't noticed anything unusual and that things seemed totally normal when he was there. He said he biked home, got in his car, and went to work after that.

Speaker 7 Evening was rolling in and the searches for Darlene hadn't turned up anything. Not her, not the suspect.

Speaker 7 But at around six, Indiana State Police announced that they had stopped a blonde man driving a green Pontiac Grand Prix.

Speaker 7 Officers went and actually got Ron, Marie, and Melissa and immediately took them to the ISP post in Peru, Indiana to get a look at this guy and his car.

Speaker 7 But the girl said, nope, that wasn't the green clunker they saw outside their house. And the guy wasn't the one that they saw knelt over their mother, growling.

Speaker 7 Police knew their best bet would be to put out a picture of the suspect rather than bringing every blonde-haired man driving a green car down to their station.

Speaker 7 So that same night, they took Marie and Melissa to the South Bend Police Department to make an artist sketch of the suspect.

Speaker 33 It was all day long. Someone else else would pull me aside and say, okay, Marie, let's go over this again.
Okay, look at this.

Speaker 33 And I cannot tell you how many times we had to go into the police station and look at picture books. They were lined up in like those plastic folder things.
And we would just flip, flip.

Speaker 33 And then dad's like, okay, we're going to go do something fun. And I was like, what? And he's like, we're going to go to a person who sketches people, an artist.
And I was like, that's not fun.

Speaker 33 It was a woman who drew like amazing stuff.

Speaker 33 And she's like, okay, so when you look at these eyes, what were the shape of his eyes and i remember like lines of eyes lines of noses lines of mouths i remember his eyes but beyond that and the color of his hair and stuff i couldn't really

Speaker 33 and then when she got done the picture did look similar so i was like oh that was neat that you were able to do that yeah but it was constant it was all the time And they would bribe me with Cokes, which I never drank Cokes.

Speaker 33 And so I remember, I don't want any more Cokes. But you just remember weird stuff like that and I was freezing.
It's so cold in all of those places. That was my memory of it.

Speaker 7 We have that original sketch and you can see it on our website thedeckpodcast.com.

Speaker 7 What they really focused in on for this sketch were the light eyes.

Speaker 7 Also the fact that Marie and Melissa both remembered him having a distinct thin and long nose, a narrow face, and light combed over hair, which the girls described as streaky.

Speaker 7 And the way it got reported back in the day was that he he had black streaks in his hair. This is something that I also became obsessed over because it seemed so distinct.

Speaker 7 But when we talked to them today, they said, no, it was more like it was two-toned, like someone who had been out in the sun and it looked highlighted.

Speaker 7 The other thing that they were both adamant about is that he was clean-shaven with no facial hair whatsoever.

Speaker 7 By the time Ron and the girls got back to his parents' house, it was dark out and the searches for Darlene were wrapping up for the night.

Speaker 7 All the law enforcement agencies from state, county, and local met at the Argus Police Department to make a plan for the next morning.

Speaker 7 Even two FBI agents from the South Bend Field Office came down to help with the kidnapping aspect of the investigation.

Speaker 7 It's hard to imagine what that first night was like for Darlene's family.

Speaker 7 Ron must have felt totally helpless and just distraught from the thought of his wife being either held hostage by some crazy guy or alone and injured somewhere, or even worse.

Speaker 7 And thoughts about the scary man kept running through Marie and Melissa's minds.

Speaker 7 They had just witnessed such a horrific, life-altering tragedy in the safety of their own home, watching a stranger hurt their loving mom and protect her.

Speaker 7 Their sense of safety had been shattered. And as they tried to go to bed that night, praying that their mother would be there when they woke up, one terrifying thought kept them awake.

Speaker 7 What if the man came back for them?

Speaker 9 Well, dad did the best he could to make it okay.

Speaker 33 You know, he just kept saying things like, we're going to have new carpet.

Speaker 5 You're going to love it.

Speaker 35 I picked out a new carpet.

Speaker 33 And

Speaker 33 he would assure us that, you know, just like lightning's not going to strike the same place twice, that he's like, now this is not ever going to happen to you again.

Speaker 33 This will never happen to you again.

Speaker 33 You don't have to worry about that anymore. It's like that's,

Speaker 33 this doesn't usually happen to anybody. The chances of it happening again, it's not going to, you know, and so we just kind of held on to that, that

Speaker 33 he's not going to come back. That would be stupid.

Speaker 7 Ron was right. He didn't come back, but neither would their mother.

Speaker 7 As they laid tucked into bed that night, unbeknownst to them, Darlene was lying just six miles away.

Speaker 7 That's next on episode three, The Wooded Path. You can listen to that right now.

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Speaker 7 Walter Grossnickel finally had some free time on Saturday, August 18th, 1984, to make the hour-long drive from his house in North Manchester, Indiana, to Argus to check out some land that he'd been interested in buying for his timber operations.

Speaker 7 This was actually the second time he had driven there to have a look, but he wanted to double-check the trees on the plot before he moved forward with actually buying it.

Speaker 7 Since Walter wasn't from Argus, he didn't realize that there was a massive manhunt going on near his destination, nor was he aware that a mother of three had been abducted the day before, just a few miles away, and was still missing.

Speaker 7 You could call it happenstance or fate. The Marshall County Prosecutor calls it divine intervention.

Speaker 7 But many believe Darlene would have never been found had it not been for Walter's timber search in the woods that day or his subsequent call to police.

Speaker 7 This is episode three,

Speaker 7 The Wooded Path.

Speaker 7 When police got Walter's call at around 2.30, the lead investigators were just wrapping up a press conference in Plymouth at the Marshall County Police Department.

Speaker 7 They announced to the reporters that they were looking for a blonde man driving a four-door blue-green car with rust along the bottom.

Speaker 7 They asked reporters to tell their readers and listeners to call the Indiana State Police or the Marshall County Police Department with any tips.

Speaker 7 By this point, Marshall County and state police were heading up the search together. with officers from Argus PD assisting with manpower.

Speaker 7 Just as the press was leaving, Sergeant Dave Yokelet with Marshall County came running in to advise ISP troopers that a body had been found in the southern part of the county off Olive Trail.

Speaker 7 Several troopers and local officers headed straight to the scene, getting there at about 2:45.

Speaker 7 When they parked and got out of their cars, they noticed a cut in the fence leading to the woods. It's how Walter had actually gotten into the woods to begin with.

Speaker 7 What you're about to hear is a reenactment of Sergeant Yokolet's interview with Walter at the scene.

Speaker 49 Gail, can you inform me, just explain to me what you found here today?

Speaker 50 I've been in the process of bargaining with Thompson Realty in Plymouth on this acres, timber and all. I'm a timberman from North Manchester, and I came here to check the woods again to go over it.

Speaker 50 And I stopped up at these people's house from Chicago and talked to them for about an hour and backed up along the road hunting for a place in the fence where I could get across.

Speaker 50 And I came up on this place where the fence was partially cut. So I climbed over and I just walked in a few feet, parted the brush, and just happened to look up and I seen this form laying there.

Speaker 50 And I just turned and I run to the road. At that time, a farmer was coming down,

Speaker 50 probably a couple hundred feet away with his tractor, and I flagged him down.

Speaker 50 So we went to the neighbors and called the police.

Speaker 52 Okay, Gail.

Speaker 48 You was just checking the property just to buy lumber out of it.

Speaker 50 To buy the whole thing, 20 acres.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 47 Had you been down here before checking on it?

Speaker 50 Yeah, I and my wife was here last week one night.

Speaker 48 So you, again you was just driving down here just trying to find a place to park to cross and go look?

Speaker 50 Yeah, there's a place way at the north end.

Speaker 50 I wanted to go back there in the swamp to see if there might be any springs. So I had the idea of maybe putting a pond in there if I buy it.

Speaker 52 There's a swamp area

Speaker 51 back here, is it?

Speaker 43 Yeah, uh-huh.

Speaker 48 So you found this low spot, and that's when you just got out and you was gonna walk across there?

Speaker 50 Yes, it's back towards the back there.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 50 Back toward the south end of the woods.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 47 How far into the woods from the road did you get into

Speaker 49 before you noticed this body?

Speaker 47 Oh, you was there. Yeah, but how far?

Speaker 50 What'd you say? Take me out of them branches down so I could see. Let's put it this way.
How close to the body did you get?

Speaker 47 I don't know.

Speaker 42 Twenty feet, maybe.

Speaker 50 I just happened to look up and see the form laying out there and I just turned and run back.

Speaker 52 You knew what it was right away?

Speaker 50 Well, I knew. I didn't know.

Speaker 8 I didn't know it was a body.

Speaker 50 Yeah, I knew it was a body.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 50 But I didn't know what.

Speaker 47 Is there anything about that body?

Speaker 42 Did you see any clothes on the body?

Speaker 50 No, I didn't pay no attention. I just seen something there and I took off and run.

Speaker 47 Then you drove back up the road and met the farmer?

Speaker 50 Yeah, just a little ways right there, and I met him. Okay.

Speaker 48 Okay. And that's when you went with him and made the phone call?

Speaker 42 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Did you...

Speaker 42 Gail...

Speaker 48 Notice any traffic or anything else up and down the road here?

Speaker 50 Oh, I've been up here about an hour talking to these people in this house right there, you know, from Chicago, and I don't think there'd been a car went by.

Speaker 47 Okay, Gail, thank you. The time is now 3.15 p.m.

Speaker 7 Edges of the fence where the cuts had been made were rusty, which made police think that it wasn't a fresh cut.

Speaker 7 Once they crossed over the fence, there were drag marks that they followed back into the woods. beyond a ditch and to a tree.
And there, about 75 feet from the road, was a woman's body.

Speaker 7 She was laying on her back with one arm down by her side and the other bent up over her head.

Speaker 7 She had on one Nike tennis shoe, which looked like the mate to the shoe investigators had found at Darlene's house the day before.

Speaker 7 She was also still wearing a light green pullover sweater and a green skirt, but both were sort of pushed up on her body.

Speaker 7 Her shirt was also pushed down off one shoulder. and it was pushed up so high on her torso that one of her breasts was almost exposed, but not quite.
Same with her skirt.

Speaker 7 It was one of those skirts that if she was standing, it would have been down almost to her knees. But when she was found, it was pushed way up on her thighs, but not quite exposing her underwear.

Speaker 7 Her dark brown hair was matted with blood, and there were obvious open wounds on her head and face, and additional cuts and bruises on her neck, arms, fingers, and legs.

Speaker 7 When officers knelt down beside her to get a good look at her face, she stared back at them, eyes wide open.

Speaker 7 Even through the maggots, there was absolutely no doubt that it was Darlene.

Speaker 7 While Sergeant Yocolette took Walter back to the station to get his boot print for possible elimination purposes, other authorities radioed for a coroner and crime scene technicians to respond to the scene to take some photos and search the woods for any other clues.

Speaker 7 It was notable to them that whoever killed Darlene didn't attempt to cover her body with brush or leaves or anything.

Speaker 7 This scene was in pretty dense woods, so if the person had wanted to conceal her body, they could have done it pretty easily. I mean, there were leaves all over the ground.

Speaker 7 But her killer did position her body behind a tree. So while she wasn't too far from Olive Trail, if you were standing on the road looking in, you wouldn't have been able to see her.

Speaker 7 Gary Dunlap, a deputy coroner for Marshall County, arrived and was briefed before he took photos of her body and the woods. And then he worked with ISP's crime scene text to process the scene.

Speaker 7 They searched and searched for the missing fireplace poker rod, hoping to find it near Darlene's body, but no such luck. In fact, they didn't find any other evidence in the woods.

Speaker 7 As they prepared to take Darlene's body to the morgue in Plymouth, other officers were sent to break the horrible news to Ron and his family, who were still at the grandparents' house, hoping and praying and believing that Darlene would be found safe.

Speaker 7 And eight-year-old Marie really did believe that her mom would come back, mostly because she had seen the man who attacked her mom. And she was like, well, he was a stranger.

Speaker 7 And why would a stranger want to hurt my mom?

Speaker 7 It's that kind of kid logic that I sometimes wish adults could apply to situations more often. But in her mind, it made no sense that this perfect stranger would have any reason to take her mom away.

Speaker 7 So when the cops came to tell the Hulse family that Darlene had been found dead, it was hard for the girls to even understand.

Speaker 33 I'm sure was so confusing and scary. Do you remember like anyone having those conversations with you? The only person that did was my maternal grandmother, called her grandma Jolly.

Speaker 33 And she was the one who got it and made me understand that she may not be coming back because that was her daughter. And she just would cry a lot.

Speaker 33 And she's like, I'm going to, I remember her saying, I'm going to get you some counseling. I'm going to get you some counseling.

Speaker 33 and i thought why would i go to counseling i don't even know what you're talking about um

Speaker 33 but everyone else was very hesitant to say

Speaker 33 there were no words really just hugging

Speaker 33 i don't remember someone really sitting me down and saying

Speaker 33 okay this is what we're gonna do now they were just hugging and crying a lot of crying

Speaker 7 that's all i remember when marie finally did understand the gravity of the situation that her mom wouldn't be coming home The overwhelming feeling she had, even at eight, was guilt.

Speaker 33 I felt so bad because I kept on replaying it over in my mind and thinking what I could have done differently. And I knew my dad had a gun in the back of his closet.

Speaker 33 And I just kept thinking to myself, I should have run the other way.

Speaker 33 I felt so guilty that I didn't do something to stop him. In my eight-year-old, I mean, now I'm realizing that's, I could not have done that.

Speaker 33 But in my eight-year-old self, I thought I should have just gone and got that gun. But I was thinking, I was panicking.

Speaker 7 I don't even like thinking about what might have happened had the girls stayed and tried to defend their mom.

Speaker 7 As a mother myself now, I believe the one ounce of peace that Darlene got in her death was that she protected her children. All she cared about in that moment was her girls.

Speaker 7 It was the only thing she said, don't hurt my babies. She told her girls to run.
She kept them safe. Marie and Melissa gave their mother a gift by listening to her one final time.

Speaker 7 As the Hulses came to terms with Darlene's death, family members rallied around Ron to help care for the girls. And Marie and Melissa teamed up to help take care of their baby sister.

Speaker 7 A welcome distraction, maybe, but they were also just so relieved that she was okay.

Speaker 33 Kristen, I don't remember Kristen like wanting anybody else but Melissa and I. I mean, she was just with us all the time after that.

Speaker 33 I mean, we fed her, we bathed her, we changed her, we did everything

Speaker 41 for her.

Speaker 7 Family members also stepped in to help Ron make funeral arrangements for Darlene. And all of this was happening as police prepared for a massive manhunt and they shifted to a homicide investigation.

Speaker 7 A crazed killer was on the loose, and two days after Darlene's abduction, on August 19th, police were no closer to finding him.

Speaker 7 But that morning was Darlene's autopsy, and investigators were hoping the information they were going to get from that would help them understand the why behind it all.

Speaker 7 It was becoming more and more difficult for them to reassure the community about their own safety when they didn't even know why Darlene's killer showed up to her house in the first place.

Speaker 7 Even though the scene didn't really support robbery as a motive, police kept leaning that way until something else told them otherwise.

Speaker 7 The autopsy was performed Sunday morning at Memorial Hospital in South Bend by Dr. Rick Hoover, which is a name that you might recognize if you also listened to Counterclock Season 3.

Speaker 7 Also present at the autopsy were a few ISP troopers, Marshall County officers, and the prosecutor at the time, Fred Jones.

Speaker 7 One of the first things Dr. Hoover noted in the autopsy report was Darlene's clothing and the areas where blood was concentrated on her skirt, shirt, and underwear.

Speaker 7 A few small hairs and fibers were found on her clothes, so they bagged those along with her clothes and fingernail clippings, all as evidence.

Speaker 7 Even though she was only missing and likely in the woods for about 30 hours, rigor mortis had started to set in and lividity showed that she had likely been lying on her back in the woods since the time she died.

Speaker 7 Darlene's left hand was injured, which looked like defensive wounds. And there were seven lacerations on her head that Dr.

Speaker 7 Hoover said were caused by a quote, long, narrow type of instrument, aka the fireplace poker. Dr.

Speaker 7 Hoover noted in his report that Darlene's skull wasn't fractured and her brain didn't show any evidence of additional trauma or hemorrhage.

Speaker 7 He also noted some injuries to her legs, arms, and neck, but some of those injuries Dr. Hoover thought Darlene probably received after she was already dead.

Speaker 7 Hoover concluded that her cause of death was blunt force trauma to the head, and he determined that her manner of death was homicide.

Speaker 7 Dr. Hoover's findings also stated that Darlene was not sexually assaulted, which is surprising considering everything we know so far, right?

Speaker 7 Considering her skirt and shirt were pushed way up when she was found. Considering that nothing was taken from the home, and this man seemingly came with duct tape for her.

Speaker 7 Hoover's reports say they did a sexual assault kit, but there isn't any information in the report about what type of testing they did.

Speaker 7 What we've come to learn is that in 1984, it could have been one of several different tests, some of which were super detailed and others were kind of superficial. But Dr.

Speaker 7 Hoover seemed certain that she wasn't sexually assaulted. He also said that Darlene likely died sometime between 8:30 a.m.
and noon on Friday, August 17th.

Speaker 7 But we know that it was probably after 9 since Ron's dad had been there dropping off bananas just before 9.

Speaker 7 As these findings made their way back to the Argus community, the story of Darlene's murder was all over the news, from the small local newspapers to radio broadcasts and even the TV stations in South Bend, which meant that calls were pouring in.

Speaker 7 Most of them were various sightings of green four-door cars, which sort of became a wild goose chase for police. But there was one very interesting tip that seemed super relevant.

Speaker 7 An Argus man named Alex Long called police and said that he had seen the news about Darlene Hulse, and in hindsight, he realized that he had been driving by her home right around 9.30 a.m.

Speaker 7 on the day that she was abducted. Alex lived one road over from the Hulses, and he was headed to Plymouth that morning when he passed their home.

Speaker 7 He said that he saw a four-door blue-green early 70s Bonneville type car with round headlights parked outside their house, but not in the driveway where Marie and Melissa would see it just moments later when they would eventually go running from the home.

Speaker 7 He said that the car was parked out front, like on the road. He said what he noticed about the car was that it was in bad shape with rust on it.

Speaker 7 And he saw a man sitting in the driver's seat who had a big, pointy nose, blonde, slick back hair, and he was wearing a collared shirt. He said the man looked to be in his 20s.

Speaker 7 Now the other interesting thing that Alex noted was that the car seemed to have had a homemade paint job, which is very consistent with the chalky bad paint job that Marie described.

Speaker 7 This was the same car. This guy had been parked out front.
Was he watching her through the open curtains in the window? Was he working up the courage to do whatever it was he had planned?

Speaker 7 Police still didn't know.

Speaker 7 Investigators met that night to debrief on everything that they learned from the autopsy and the other details that Alex had provided about their suspect in his car.

Speaker 7 But at around 10.30 p.m., just as the police were wrapping up a game plan to ramp up their manhunt the following day, another call came in.

Speaker 7 The call was from a man. who said that his friend might have had something to do with Darlene's murder.

Speaker 7 That's next in episode four, they left town. You can listen to that right now.

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Speaker 7 Before Darlene's body had even been found, a tip had come into police. A man named Jim Garmin suggested they check out the home of a woman named Thelma Burns.

Speaker 7 He said there were a lot of quote-unquote druggies and creeps who stayed there.

Speaker 7 When police went by to talk to him the next evening, this now being after Darlene's body had been found, Jim Garmin's tip had gotten even more specific, and it pointed the finger at one particular man,

Speaker 7 Danny Bender.

Speaker 7 This is episode four: They Left Town.

Speaker 7 James gave police a quick version of events over the phone when they spoke to him a couple of times on the 18th. And a few days later, they asked him to come in to give a formal statement.

Speaker 7 James said the weekend before the murder, he'd run into an acquaintance, Thelma, at the laundromat and arranged to buy some speed off her. And Danny Bender was with her.

Speaker 7 They all made plans to meet later at James and his wife's house to party that night after they got done with their laundry. Here's an actor reading James Garmin's exact statement.

Speaker 54 On the Sunday before the thing happened at the residence on 20B Road, I was at my house and Thelma Burns and a guy by the name of Dan, I think his last name is Bender,

Speaker 54 came over and Dan and I got into my car to go to Thelma's to get a keg of beer.

Speaker 54 On the way over to Thelma's, he started talking about stealing and he said he was a kleptomaniac and I was thinking about my tools and my backhoe and I told him that just because a guy has belongings that it doesn't mean he has money.

Speaker 54 When we crossed the tracks on State Road 110, we were coming up to the first road past the tracks and he pointed out to the north and he said that there is a young guy who works at Young Door and who just bought a new house and paid cash for it.

Speaker 54 And he said that they had a lot of cash in the house, like they didn't trust banks. Then he started talking about going to California with this guy who was staying at Thelma's.

Speaker 54 We went on and got the the beer and on the way back he told me that he just got out of prison for armed robbery. He also said that he had an uncle that owns a junkyard on 25 south of 110.

Speaker 7 So not only was James super forthcoming with police, but his story seemed legit. He'd stayed pretty consistent from the interviews over the phone to the one that he did in person.

Speaker 7 So police wasted no time looking into Danny Bender, and it turns out he did have a criminal record and had in fact been in prison out in Texas, but not for armed robbery, for kidnapping.

Speaker 7 And he had just gotten released on July 1st. But there was one problem.
Danny was nowhere to be found.

Speaker 7 Police were hearing that he might have skipped town recently, like right around the time of the murder kind of recently, which made him look even more suspicious.

Speaker 7 Soon enough, people in Danny's social circle started talking and word got to Danny that the cops had been looking for him. So, Danny just called them up all the way from Colorado.

Speaker 7 Danny told Sergeant Yocolet that he had been out west since even before the murder happened.

Speaker 7 He said he even had a friend who could vouch for him because they had hitchhiked out there together, from Indiana to Illinois, all the way to Utah and Nevada before going back to Colorado.

Speaker 7 Danny also said that he wasn't familiar with Darlene or Ron Hulse, but he did admit to maybe having heard the last name Hulse before.

Speaker 7 Police, gauging gauging that Danny was a talker and seemed pretty willing to cooperate, were like, listen, your statement over the phone is really no good to us.

Speaker 7 We need you to get back to Indiana to take a polygraph. And Danny was like, sure, but you got to come and get me.

Speaker 7 So two investigators hopped on a flight and escorted Danny back to Indiana, where they wasted no time in getting him hooked up to a lie detector test.

Speaker 6 Subject advised that he was not in Indiana on August 17th, that he does not know Darlene Hulse by name, but he might by sight, and that he did not know Ron Hulse by name, but he might know him by sight.

Speaker 6 He advised that he did not know the house or where it was at. He advised that the officers told him that Ron Hulse worked for Young Door.

Speaker 6 He advised that the only person he knows at Young Door would be his uncle. Subject advised that the reason he left Indiana was for a job and that he wanted to go out west with Tim.

Speaker 6 He advised that he did try to make a couple phone calls while he was out west. Subject advised that he was told that the the woman was beat to death, but he does not know how.

Speaker 6 Subject advised that he has not broken into anywhere since he's been out of prison and that he left to go out west on August 15th.

Speaker 6 During the pre-test portion of the examination, the subject gave the following information. That he does not know who killed the woman.

Speaker 6 He is not trying to withhold any information from anyone about the murder. He denied having the conversation with Garmin that Garmin describes.

Speaker 6 He denied pointing out the home of the victim as a good place to burglarize. He denied telling Garmin or anyone else that the owner of of the house worked at Young Door.

Speaker 6 He stated that the conversation he did have with Garmin was about a house that was located at the corner of State Road 110 and Old 31.

Speaker 6 He stated that this house was owned by a probation or parole officer. This was the house that he described to Garmin as a good place to rip off.
Subject was given two tests.

Speaker 6 His polygrams contained specific reactions indicative of deception to the relevant questions pertaining to,

Speaker 6 Do you plan to try to lie to me on this test? Answer, no.

Speaker 6 Do you know who beat Darlene Hulse? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Did you know in advance who was going to the Hulse house? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Did you talk about the Hulse house before the murder? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Are you attempting to protect anyone now?

Speaker 6 Answer no.

Speaker 6 Are you attempting to withhold information from me about this matter? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Have you lied to any of my questions? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Conclusion. After careful analysis of this subject's polygrams, it is the opinion of the examiner that he did not tell the complete truth.

Speaker 7 Lieutenant Ed Criswell wanted Danny's full story. So they went around the area trying to talk to some of the people known to hang around him, including his relatives at the junkyard in Fulton County.

Speaker 7 They already knew Danny didn't own a car, but since he had ties to a junkyard, they wanted to find out if he'd had access to a rusty old green four-door car.

Speaker 7 But as you can imagine, looking for something like that at a junkyard was a needle in a haystack situation, and it didn't result in anything meaningful.

Speaker 7 So police arranged to interview Danny again and asked him to start with what he'd been up to since he was released from prison in Texas all the way until he allegedly left Indiana on August 15th.

Speaker 7 Danny said that he had gotten out of prison on July 1st, and a friend had picked him up and got him a plane ticket back to Indiana.

Speaker 7 He said he landed in Indianapolis on July 2nd and hitchhiked up to Plymouth.

Speaker 7 He then went through what he did each day, which was basically him partying day and night with various people around Plymouth, Argus, and another small town called Monterey.

Speaker 7 And he was working odd jobs for a few weeks all in between there. Investigators grilled him for hours.

Speaker 45 But according to the report, he didn't give up much.

Speaker 7 Here's a reenactment of that questioning between Dave Yocalette and Danny Bender.

Speaker 48 In regard to what we've been questioning you about, what can you tell us? Nothing I haven't already told you. Tell me again.
That I don't know nothing about what's going on.

Speaker 48 Did you know the person that got killed? Nope. Do you know anything about them? Nope.

Speaker 48 Had you ever made comments about wanting to do a burglary at their house? I don't know.

Speaker 8 What do you mean you don't know?

Speaker 48 I might have. I might haven't.

Speaker 7 Basically, Danny didn't want to snitch. He actually told police he would rather spend 30 years in prison than narc on someone.

Speaker 7 Police were ready to keep interrogating Danny daily until they could get more out of him. But there was one hang-up.
Marie and Melissa didn't recognize him.

Speaker 7 And you might think, well, that's the end of Danny as a suspect. But police weren't ready to give up on him that easily.

Speaker 7 They knew that the girls had been traumatized, and they wanted to check him off their list, so to speak, with other evidence. So police kept Danny in jail on an unrelated warrant.

Speaker 7 While there, Danny wrote a letter to his dear friend Thelma.

Speaker 45 Thelma, hi.

Speaker 37 So how's life been your way? If you see Jim, tell him I said I understand what he called the law. But Thelma, I got to tell you one thing.
I don't know who killed that chick.

Speaker 37 I told my mom in the letter that I wrote her and didn't know. But I wish in a way I did because they showed me some picture of her after they found her body and it fucked me up.

Speaker 37 By the way, the law told me what you said.

Speaker 45 I thought Ace was funny.

Speaker 37 Thelma, if this letter sounds like I'm nuts, it's because I'm in a one-man cell and they won't let me call no one.

Speaker 38 And I keep telling them I don't remember who told me about the house.

Speaker 37 Oh yeah, they told me I could get 20 years for not tell and 30 years for the bitch and two years for leaving the state. But if I tell them, they'll drop all the charges and let me go.

Speaker 37 Delma, I think you know me better than one else does, because you know the real me on both sides of me.

Speaker 55 You do believe me.

Speaker 37 If I know who killed that chick, I'd tell them. Love your friend, Danny.

Speaker 7 Before police could really rule Danny in or out, tips started to pile up, and investigators knew they needed to split resources to avoid getting tunnel vision for Danny.

Speaker 7 And just as they figured, as soon as they started vetting other leads, another viable suspect made his way onto their radar. Robert Zabrowski.

Speaker 7 People had been calling in saying that Robert not only fit the description of the man who killed Darlene, but just like Danny, he was said to have left town right after the murder.

Speaker 7 According to what they were hearing, Robert was now with a traveling carnival in Alabama. And sure enough, that is exactly where they found him.

Speaker 7 Investigators got the cooperation of a police department down there to bring him in and administer a polygraph while Indiana officials came and got him.

Speaker 7 Robert said he didn't know anything about the murder, but he failed the polygraph.

Speaker 7 So by the time Indiana authorities made it to him, they were more eager than ever to bring him back to Indiana and talk to him there. And Robert went willingly.

Speaker 7 Even though he wasn't under arrest, he said he was willing to help them out, though he never wavered in saying that he had nothing to do with any murder.

Speaker 7 The entire way up there, he wasn't acting like a guilty man. Or if he was a guilty man, maybe he was a man without a conscience because he slept practically the whole drive.

Speaker 7 One of the first things they did when they got back was to give Robert another polygraph, one of their own.

Speaker 6 Subject stated he knew why he was there, reference he was a suspect in a murder case. He advised he was at a friend's house having coffee when he heard about the kidnapping.

Speaker 6 He advised that that night he had heard a a bulletin on the television set in which they had advised that the woman had been beaten and that the description fit him.

Speaker 6 He advised the description fit him, but that the description was described as having a goatee, that he did not have one, and he advised that that was the only thing that he had prior to talking to police.

Speaker 6 Once talking to police, he advised that he now knows that the woman was beat in the face or head, but he does not know what she was beat with, that her husband and daughters are eyewitnesses to the kidnapping and beating.

Speaker 6 Subject advised that the day in question he was at Betty Zayner's house, that he got up, had breakfast. He then went to Rochester, to the Fulton Industries, and put an application in.

Speaker 6 He then went to Winnemack and drove around, but did not stop and put an application in anywhere. He advised he then stopped and got gas.
He then took SR-14 and SR-17.

Speaker 6 He stopped by a friend's house at Tippecanoe Shores and then went to Culver and got cigarettes, and that he then went to a Roy Carr's house.

Speaker 6 Subject advised that reference the car that was supposed to have been used in the murder, that he does not remember what kind of car it was, but that he does remember that it did not match the kind of car that he does have.

Speaker 6 Subject advised that he's never killed anyone. Subject was given three tests.
His polygrams contained specific reactions indicative of deception to the relevant questions pertaining to:

Speaker 6 Do you plan to try to lie to me on this test? Answer, no.

Speaker 6 Have you told me the whole truth since we've been talking? Answer: yes. Do you know who killed the woman on August 17th? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Did you go to the woman's house on August the 17th? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Did you have a poker in your hand on August the 17th? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Did you beat a woman on August the 17th? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Are you attempting to withhold information from me about this matter? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Have you lied to any of my questions? Answer Answer no.

Speaker 6 Did you go to Darlene Hulse's house on August the 17th? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Did you struggle with the woman on August the 17th? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Did you drive someone else's car on August the 17th? Answer no.

Speaker 6 Did you dump the woman's body in the woods on August the 17th? Answer no.

Speaker 6 After careful analysis of this subject's polygrams, it is the opinion of the examiner that he did not tell the complete truth.

Speaker 7 By the way, the bulletin did not describe the suspect as having a goatee, so I'm not sure where he got that info.

Speaker 7 The robber went on to say that, yes, technically he was in Argus on the 17th, but he'd only gotten there in the afternoon after the murder.

Speaker 7 And when he was there, he was busy filling out a job application. Police did end up tracking down the application filled out by hand in Robert's handwriting.

Speaker 7 But of course, the application wasn't time-stamped or anything, so it wasn't the strongest alibi of all time.

Speaker 7 Aside from him being in Argus when the crime happened and then leaving a month or so later, there wasn't much else about Robert that stood out.

Speaker 7 They weren't finding nearly as much dirt on him as they had on Danny Bender. He didn't have a green car.
He didn't have a ton of local ties, and he wasn't offering up a confession.

Speaker 7 After three iffy polygraph tests, they didn't have enough to hold Robert and they had to let him go. But before they did, they did take his fingerprints, just in case.

Speaker 7 Meanwhile, while police had been vetting these suspects, the Hulse family was grappling with life without Darlene, which was hard.

Speaker 7 By this time, Darlene's toxicology had come back and it was clear she had no drugs or alcohol in her system when she died. Ron wasn't surprised by this because they lived a party-free existence.

Speaker 7 Their lives revolved around each other, their kids, and church. It was a humble life, which was another reason why robbery as a motive was so confusing for their family.
Here's Marie again.

Speaker 33 I remember dad being worried about how to pay for her funeral expenses.

Speaker 33 Just little things like that. And he would get letters in the mail and...
People would send him like $10, $15, and like he would just cry every time we opened the mail.

Speaker 33 I remember him being at my grandparents' house crying as they opened the mail.

Speaker 7 The Holst family was just praying that police would catch the right guy while trying to survive each day without Darlene. And eventually, they moved back into their house, which was hard.

Speaker 7 There were big and little reminders of their mom everywhere. And not just reminders of her as their mother, but awful reminders of what had happened to her.

Speaker 33 We helped him clean up the house. They didn't have like a surf pro back then.

Speaker 33 Every once in a while they'd find like they'd see a rock or something with blood. And it looks different than what you think it's going to look.

Speaker 33 Like my eight-year-old self, I thought it was supposed to be bright red. It's dark.
And you know, my dad, because he built the entire house, he poured all of the concrete. He did the split rail fence.

Speaker 33 He did everything. And so I don't even know why we were the ones that had to go clean it up.
You know, when he drug her,

Speaker 33 her blood was all over, and we had a gravel driveway. So it got on the rocks.

Speaker 33 And for years, you could see, I would see a dark, a dark rock with dark, almost like blackish brown by the time you see it and i it's like i just and i don't think he had an option i don't think anyone was like let me go clean that up for you

Speaker 7 the daily reminders were one thing but certain things made it really hard for the whole family as they tried to regain a sense of normalcy

Speaker 33 you realize that what happened at your house no one wants to come to your house and spend the night I mean you go to other people's homes.

Speaker 33 You don't invite people over because you're, I mean, that's the house that it happened at was such a small town.

Speaker 7 Investigators were becoming more concerned with each passing day.

Speaker 7 Every time they had a suspect in for questioning that didn't result in getting answers, they had to go tell the grieving Hulse family that they were still working every lead possible.

Speaker 7 But they knew deep down that they might have just wasted several months on two suspects that resulted in absolutely nothing.

Speaker 7 Then, on October 26th, 1984, just as they thought things were slowing down, police got their strongest lead yet when Indiana State Police called Marshall County Sergeant Dave Yocalet.

Speaker 56 He informed me of an individual who had been shot and killed by police in Amarillo, Texas the day prior, which would be the 25th of October, 1984. He advised this individual was Ricky Mock.

Speaker 56 Police were searching an apartment in Logansport, Indiana, where this individual is from and had located a newspaper clipping in regards to the homicide investigation and also some clothes that had what appeared to be blood on them.

Speaker 7 That's coming up in episode five, He's Gunned Down. You can listen to that right now.

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Speaker 7 On October 25th, 1984, all the way out in Amarillo, Texas, a 29-year-old man named Ricky Mock went into a convenience store and held the cashiers and guests at gunpoint, demanding money.

Speaker 7 When he got what he was looking for, he took off only to be pulled over a few hours later by an Amarillo officer who noticed his Indiana plates.

Speaker 7 Ricky assumed that they knew it was him who robbed the place. So as soon as he stopped his car, he hopped out and pointed his pistol at the patrol car, prompting the officer to fatally shoot him.

Speaker 7 Police searched his car and found not only the stolen money from the convenience store holdup, but tons of other stolen cash and other stolen stuff from way out in Indiana.

Speaker 7 So word quickly made its way from Texas to Indiana, where Ricky was wanted for other armed robberies.

Speaker 7 State police were sent to search his apartment in Logansport, Indiana for anything else that didn't belong to him. And they did find some items from local burglaries.

Speaker 7 But what else they found was shocking. There was some bloody clothes and a newspaper clipping that didn't have anything to do with any robbery that they were investigating.

Speaker 7 The clipping had to do with a murder. They quickly figured out who was the lead detective on that case, Sergeant Dave Yokelet.

Speaker 7 Here's a voice actor reading his report of that call.

Speaker 56 He informed me of an individual who had been shot and killed by police in Amarillo, Texas the day prior, which would be the 25th of October, 1984. He advised this individual was Ricky Mock.

Speaker 56 Police were searching an apartment in Logansport, Indiana, where this individual is from and had located a newspaper clipping in regards to the homicide investigation and also some clothes that had what appeared to be blood on them.

Speaker 7 This is episode five: He's Gunned Down.

Speaker 7 Sergeant Dave Yocolet drove the 35 or so miles from his house in Marshall County to Logansport, Indiana, and he met ISP detectives at Ricky Mock's apartment on Helm Street.

Speaker 7 They showed him a pair of brown shoes and white towels that looked to have blood spots on them.

Speaker 7 There was also a pair of pants in the apartment with some stains that were similar, but police couldn't tell if they were blood or not.

Speaker 7 Even more suspicious, police found some plastic playtex dishwashing gloves that also looked to have blood stains on them.

Speaker 7 The newspaper clipping that police found in Ricky's apartment was cut out from the Logansport newspaper and was dated August 23rd.

Speaker 7 It was an article that described a man that was fleeing from police who matched the suspect description from the Hulse homicide.

Speaker 7 Now, prior to this, Ricky Mock was not a name that had come up before in the Hulse investigation.

Speaker 7 And sure, he was kind of known locally around town, but not for anything even close to what happened to Darlene. But blood on clothes?

Speaker 34 You don't get that from a robbery.

Speaker 7 And having that clipping, it screamed that there was a connection to be found. All of the bloody items were sent off to the state crime lab to see if they could tie Darlene's death to Ricky.

Speaker 7 At the same time, Sergeant Yokolet worked to find out more about who Ricky Mock was.

Speaker 7 When he checked out his criminal history, it seemed to be mostly robberies and burglaries all around northern Indiana.

Speaker 7 This guy seemed to be financially motivated and mostly pulled off quick cash grabs. There was nothing in any of the reports about him hurting anyone in the process.

Speaker 7 Now, physically, Ricky fit the description. Blonde, skinny, clean-shaven.

Speaker 7 So Sergeant Yokolet got Ricky's most recent mugshot and went straight back to the Hulse family to see if Marie and Melissa recognized him. But they didn't.

Speaker 7 Again, that wasn't enough for the police to completely discount Ricky as a suspect, so they kept investigating him to see if they could place him in Argus on August 17th.

Speaker 7 In doing so, they did find out that some of his social circles overlapped with Danny Bender's, which was interesting from an investigative standpoint, but also not that surprising because Argus is so small.

Speaker 7 But police went and interviewed a lot of those people. But when they were talking to them, as far as whether or not Ricky was capable of murder, the vote was split.

Speaker 7 Some said, oh yeah, definitely, if you had the right motivation. And others said, no way, robbery is as far as he would go.

Speaker 7 According to his apartment landline calls, there was a phone call placed from his apartment in Logansport on August 17th at 10 a.m.

Speaker 7 Which had to have been a roller coaster of emotions that happened in like a split second for investigators. Because this is amazing.

Speaker 7 Yes, he was in Indiana the day that Darlene was murdered, but oh shit, there is no way he could have done it. The timeline didn't work.

Speaker 7 Darlene was abducted in Argus around 9.30, which means that he would have had to kill her, taken her body to a different location, and then been back to his apartment in Logansport, 40 minutes away, making a casual phone call by 10 a.m.

Speaker 7 It just wasn't working with the timeline as they knew it.

Speaker 7 But investigators knew if they were off on the timing of Darlene's murder by even 15 minutes, it would have been possible, although still a big stretch.

Speaker 7 And just in case you're wondering, police did track down the person that Ricky called that morning just to verify that it had been him on the phone from his apartment.

Speaker 7 And they said, yeah, it was him and it was a totally normal everyday phone call. Nothing damning about it.
They also tracked down a woman whose name was on a pill bottle in Ricky's apartment.

Speaker 7 Now, police at first had assumed that these were stolen bags, but the woman said that she had been sort of dating Ricky.

Speaker 7 And in fact, she had dropped off the pills at his apartment on the afternoon of the 17th. And she said that Ricky Ricky was there at home, just kind of lounging around.

Speaker 7 So it's not like he really even left after making this phone call. Police were feeling pretty on the fence about Ricky.
At least that is until the crime lab results came back.

Speaker 7 The ISP testing confirmed that it was in fact blood on Ricky's stuff and that blood appeared to be consistent with Darlene's blood type.

Speaker 7 Now, blood testing, especially at the state levels back then, was super generic. It basically could just tell you type O or type A, et cetera.

Speaker 7 And they knew that if they were going to nail this guy, especially with a tight timeline that they would be working with, they would need something definitive.

Speaker 7 So they asked the FBI to perform their own tests since they had more advanced equipment.

Speaker 7 They analyzed the same samples, and their findings were that it was definitely not Darlene's blood on Ricky's stuff.

Speaker 7 Just to be extra sure he wasn't connected to the crime scene, police also arranged to get one of Ricky's hairs sent to Indiana from Texas and had it tested against a few of the hairs found at Darlene's house, the ones on her body and on baby Kristen's foot.

Speaker 7 And it turns out that none of those hairs matched Ricky's. Actually, all but one of the hairs turned out to be Darlene's.

Speaker 7 So the blood and the hairs weren't a match. But the list of crimes that Ricky had been accused of was long.

Speaker 7 After the robbery in Texas, Amarillo police sent notices to police departments about Ricky's death, and they got like a dozen calls back from officers saying that he was wanted for crimes in their areas, mostly armed robberies throughout the Midwest.

Speaker 7 Just to be extra thorough, police continued doing interviews regarding Ricky.

Speaker 7 They talked to this guy named Joe Cripp, who was apparently Ricky's like BFF.

Speaker 7 With Ricky dead, police figured Joe is the next best person to talk to because the two were super tight.

Speaker 7 Joe said that his buddy Ricky, R.I.P., couldn't have abducted or killed anyone back in August because he had actually wrecked his motorcycle in July and was barely able to walk for like months after that.

Speaker 7 He didn't think Ricky would have been able to struggle with anyone or move a body in the condition that he was in.

Speaker 7 Joe also laughed off the fact that Ricky had cut out that newspaper clipping about a fugitive police were looking for because the fugitive was Ricky.

Speaker 7 Ricky thought it was hilarious that he'd been fleeing from police and actually got away with it by hiding in a cornfield. It wasn't because he had anything to do with Darlene's death.

Speaker 7 The next question police asked Joe was if Ricky had any access to green cars. And in fact, he did.

Speaker 7 Joe said that Ricky had bought a four-door early 70s green maverick off a girl they knew. He couldn't remember when Ricky drove the car though.

Speaker 7 So police followed up with that girl that he mentioned and she said that Ricky had borrowed the green car back in September and then bought it off her in early October before going to Texas.

Speaker 7 She said that she couldn't remember Ricky using the car before September. But then, police got a call from a guy named Mike Murphy who said that Ricky had bought a green car off him over the summer.

Speaker 7 Here's a reenactment of Sergeant Yokolet's interview with Mike.

Speaker 48 The way we understand it, he bought a car from you.

Speaker 36 Yeah, a 1974 two-door Ford Brough.

Speaker 43 Green.

Speaker 42 That was a green one?

Speaker 43 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 51 Is that supposed to be the same one that he wrecked later on, or a girl had wrecked?

Speaker 36 A girl had wrecked it, as far as I know.

Speaker 51 There were other times that Ricky came to your house?

Speaker 36 Yes, sir.

Speaker 51 Kind of just basically tell me what would take place when he was over here, or what pretext he would come over on.

Speaker 36 He would just come over to visit. Kids around.
Just shoot the breeze.

Speaker 57 Put it that way.

Speaker 51 In talking with other people and in talking with you, he was the type of individual that bragged a lot.

Speaker 57 Uh, yeah.

Speaker 50 Okay.

Speaker 49 Uh, did he ever brag to you or show off to you as far as telling you that he was involved in any other crimes?

Speaker 52 Doing any crime?

Speaker 36 No, not until after, you know. Sam or Joe or one of them told me that he had been in Madarieville or something in Madarieville when he was younger.

Speaker 36 And then he told me what had been his priors, but he told me that he had gone on the straight and arrow.

Speaker 7 After that, the questioning switched switched to something about a gun that Mike said Ricky stole from him. And it's a bit of a reach, but you can tell Sergeant Yokolet has his reasoning for asking.

Speaker 7 Basically, one of the guns that Ricky had in his car when he died in Texas was the one that Mike used to keep under his mattress.

Speaker 7 That gun used to belong to Mike's brother, who was also murdered in Argus, like 10 years prior, but not far from the Hulse home.

Speaker 7 In Sergeant Yocalet's report of his interview with Mike, he wrote:

Speaker 7 It is not known for certain if there's any connection at this time between the homicide of Darlene Hulse to any of the other homicides that have taken place several years ago.

Speaker 7 However, it appears to this officer to be very coincidental that the weapon that was in the possession of a suspect in the Darlene Hulse investigation originally belonged to an individual that was killed on State Road 110, that it was believed his death was also possibly a homicide.

Speaker 5 End quote.

Speaker 8 I'm interested in the case in Argus where the woman got killed.

Speaker 42 Is there anything you can explain to me that you've heard from other people around or Ricky?

Speaker 36 Well, to tell the truth, I didn't think he did it.

Speaker 57 And, you know, and then Bob would come up one night and talk to me.

Speaker 43 Bob?

Speaker 57 Ingle.

Speaker 57 Okay.

Speaker 36 And I just asked him, I said, do you think that he could have did it?

Speaker 36 And Bob looked at me and says, if the girl approached him, you know, and spooked him and caught him off guard, you know, yeah, he might have did it out of pure fright and didn't know what the heck to do with her.

Speaker 36 When he was around here, the wife said he acted strange, but you know, anybody who walks into the house to her is going to act strange. He was a very intelligent man, you know.

Speaker 36 He just pulled stupid bullshit.

Speaker 7 Finally, police interviewed Ricky's wife, Christine.

Speaker 7 The two had separated in early 1984, but they had a two-year-old kid together. Christine told police that for the first two weeks of August, Ricky had their son with with him in Logansport.

Speaker 7 She said that on August 13th, he had returned him to her house, and at that time, Ricky was still suffering from his injuries that he had gotten in the motorcycle accident.

Speaker 7 Christine said that Ricky could walk, but that it was really difficult for him.

Speaker 7 She also said that Ricky had a bad temper, but she didn't come right out and say that she thought he was capable of murdering someone.

Speaker 7 After all their interviews, investigators had a few key takeaways.

Speaker 7 They basically knew Ricky was a full-time robber, and he liked to brag about his crimes. He had bragged about being wanted by the Meriville, Indiana PD to his wife and Joe before going to Texas.

Speaker 7 So if he had been wanted for murder, wouldn't he have at least told Joe or mentioned that he'd gone too far and had to skip town?

Speaker 7 If you're making your living stealing cash from people, being wanted for murder might lend some street cred to your reputation.

Speaker 7 In November 1984, the Plymouth Bureau of the South Bend Tribune published an article with the headline, Not likely, Dead Man is Killer.

Speaker 7 Sergeant Yocolet was quoted in that story basically saying things weren't adding up for Ricky Mock like they had hoped. Most of it came back to that 10 a.m.

Speaker 7 phone call that he had made from his apartment on August 17th.

Speaker 7 But Ron Hulse, probably to try and comfort his daughters, decided to cling to the Ricky Mock theory. Here's Kristen and Marie.

Speaker 33 And dad had always told us growing up that it was

Speaker 7 they had caught the guy, don't worry about it. Because we were scared that he was shot and killed in Texas robbing a bank.

Speaker 33 And I'm like, that just sounds

Speaker 5 far-fetched.

Speaker 33 When he talked to me about it, it was always just, you're safe, you're okay, they've caught him. Because, you know, when I was little, I was scared.
I was scared he's going to come back.

Speaker 33 And I would have nightmares.

Speaker 7 I imagine Ron was doing everything he could to try and comfort the girls. And maybe at that time, it was easier to believe that Ricky did it because he was dead.
Maybe it comforted him in a way, too.

Speaker 7 But in fall 1984, if there had ever been any case to make against Ricky Mock, it fizzled out faster than it came together, just as it had for Robert Zabrowski and Danny Bender.

Speaker 7 For a moment, police considered pivoting and going back to interrogating Danny even harder. But a few days after his dear Thelma letter from jail, police got a call from the Illinois State Police.

Speaker 7 One of their troopers recalled stopping two hitchhikers on August 15th just across the Illinois state line from Indiana. It was Danny Bender and his friend Tim.

Speaker 7 They were headed out west, just like they told detectives here, and they didn't have any active warrants.

Speaker 7 Danny had even gotten permission from his parole officer to leave the state, so the Illinois state trooper let them go.

Speaker 7 Police knew that it would have been nearly impossible for Danny to have found his way back to Argus by the morning of the 17th. So they knew they had to move on.

Speaker 7 If you look at old news coverage in the weeks after Darlene's murder, it is all about Danny, Robert, and Ricky.

Speaker 7 You can sense how desperate police were to find the monster who viciously took Darlene away from her family. And it's easy to see why police zeroed in on them.

Speaker 7 They were all hard-partying guys who were caught up in various shady activities in and around Argus.

Speaker 7 People who had dealings with those men heard about something bad that had happened and they were like, well, it must have been one of them. And it seemed as if police wanted it to be one of them.

Speaker 7 They were drifters. Anywhere they went, trouble followed.
That kind of random tragedy seems easier for the community to handle because the subtle message is: it's not one of us.

Speaker 7 It's someone from the outside. Someone who was always bad.
Someone who you could spot a mile away.

Speaker 7 But it wasn't so simple. None of the men connected directly, only indirectly and through lots of other petty criminals.

Speaker 7 And the circumstantial evidence that could have possibly tied any of them to Darlene was shaky at best.

Speaker 7 Two months into a murder investigation in a small town, That's not the type of information detectives want to have to admit when reporters call or when members of the community stop them at the grocery store or the cafe to ask for updates in finding the despicable man who killed the sweet stay-at-home mom.

Speaker 7 So as investigators prepared to hit the reset button on their investigation, they had to finally grapple with their worst fear, that whoever killed Darlene was living among them.

Speaker 7 And as police were coming to terms with that, the Argus community was living in fear. If something so horrible could happen to sweet, straight-laced Darlene Hulse, were any of them safe?

Speaker 7 Especially in their homes.

Speaker 55 As far as bad habits, the only one I ever got her on was the fact that at night she never pulled the drapes or pulled the shade down. She just thought that we lived out in a remote area.

Speaker 55 Anybody that's out there is going to be sick anyway. And if I went into the bedroom first, was going to shower or something, then I always pulled them down.

Speaker 13 She never did.

Speaker 39 She never did.

Speaker 55 And I just wonder now if there's been someone looking all along or what.

Speaker 7 That's coming up in episode 6, Evil All Around. You can listen to that right now.

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Speaker 7 Before moving on to other suspects whose names were coming in via phone calls and letters from the public, investigators knew what they had to do next. Give Ron Hulse another polygraph test.

Speaker 7 I say another because they actually gave him one just three days after Darlene's abduction, which he passed. And listen, Ron was never a suspect.

Speaker 7 But back then, officers knew that they had to play offense and defense. And if this case were to ever go to trial, police knew that Ron would be an easy target for a defense attorney.

Speaker 7 So they had to formally rule him out, not just as a suspect, but of any involvement. Plus, talking with Ron was a great way for investigators to learn more about Darlene.

Speaker 55 As far as bad habits, the only one I I ever got her on was the fact that at night, she never pulled the drapes or pulled the shade down. She just thought that we lived out in a remote area.

Speaker 55 Anybody that's out there is going to be sick anyway, and if I went into the bedroom first, was going to shower or something, then I always pulled them down.

Speaker 13 She never did.

Speaker 39 She never did.

Speaker 55 And I just wonder now if there's been someone looking all along or what.

Speaker 7 Up to this point, they had kind of skimmed over Darlene's lifestyle and personality because A, nothing really stuck out as a red flag, and B, they were hot on the trails of Danny Bender, Robert Zabrowski, and Ricky Mock.

Speaker 7 But it was time to understand more about their victim and her husband. So, in October 1984, they sat Ron down again.

Speaker 7 This is episode 6: Evil All Around.

Speaker 58 At your request, Ronald Glenn Hulse was examined on the polygraph, a detection of deception technique. In the pre-test, the subject gave the following information and admissions.

Speaker 58 Subject stated he knew why he was there, reference, he had been asked by Detective Criswell to take a polygraph, reference, to cover all the bases, reference, of the investigation into his wife's death.

Speaker 58 Subject stated he had nothing to do with his wife's death, Darlene, and that he had not contacted anyone to come in and take her from the home and kill her.

Speaker 58 And that he did not know that Darlene was going to be taken from the house on August 17th, and that he did not know that she was going to be killed.

Speaker 58 Subject advised he's never talked with Danny Bender and that he's never talked with anyone in particular about his finances.

Speaker 58 He advised that several people at work knew that his dog would have been gone that week, but that was something that he had talked about for quite some time, wanting to have his dog bred.

Speaker 7 Marshall County Lieutenant Ed Criswell conducted the Q ⁇ A part of Ron's interview, and he started off asking where Darlene did her shopping to try and establish her routine.

Speaker 55 As far as incidentals, it was always done at either the mall up at Scottsdale or 3D in Rochester. I'd say 75% of it was done at 3D.

Speaker 59 And how about Argus?

Speaker 60 Did you do any shopping at Argus at all?

Speaker 55 Oh, the parking shop and stuff like that, you know, for odds and ends, but she didn't like to go into Argus very often like that.

Speaker 20 Things were too high.

Speaker 34 Okay.

Speaker 60 She did most of her buying in. Rochester.

Speaker 59 What were some of her habits?

Speaker 38 What were her daily routine?

Speaker 55 Well, as far as getting up, generally

Speaker 55 a quarter till seven. Was always, the alarm was always set for 6.45, bathing the children, getting them ready in the summer, you know.

Speaker 23 She liked to take off around 10 or 10.30 in the morning.

Speaker 38 She wouldn't go anywhere.

Speaker 55 She's been going lately to Jellystone Pool, trying to go there once a week. Last year, she had gone to Lake Maxinkaki.
I don't think she's gone there this year at all.

Speaker 45 Jellystone Pool.

Speaker 34 Okay.

Speaker 60 Do you have a membership out there?

Speaker 55 No, she's got a girlfriend she usually went with that knew someone that got her in for nothing all the time. About the only other place she went would be piano lessons for the kids, that's all.

Speaker 55 Otherwise, she's pretty much a homebody.

Speaker 55 She wasn't one to go out. I had the old car at home and it was terrible on gas.
We really watched that. So if we went anyplace, it was as a family in the evening.

Speaker 60 I understand you said something to one of the officers about her having an exercise routine.

Speaker 38 Okay.

Speaker 55 There, for a while, she hasn't done this now for a few weeks, she'd take a walk around the square. She'd go east from the house down to 110, all the way down to 31 and back.

Speaker 7 That was her exercise, just walking. Lieutenant Criswell asked Ron to recap the week before the abduction, trying to see if he remembered anything weird happening.

Speaker 55 I tell you, of all the weeks we've had this summer, I'd say that was about the least active week we've had.

Speaker 55 She's been doing a lot of canning at home, except for one day on Wednesday previous to the incident.

Speaker 38 She hadn't gone anywhere.

Speaker 55 She's been putting the garden up.

Speaker 21 I think she just finished it up Thursday evening.

Speaker 59 It's been a pretty boring week for her.

Speaker 7 Ron said the only thing out of the routine for that week was the fact that they were having issues with their new refrigerator.

Speaker 7 And a guy named Lee Chisholm, who owned the nearby appliance store where they bought the fridge, was going to come by and take a look.

Speaker 55 We called him and he was supposed to come down shortly then and fix it. As it turned out, he was on his way at 9.30 that morning, drove by the road and said, well, I promised I'd call for her.

Speaker 55 So he kept driving and went into Rochester.

Speaker 7 Now, you'd guess the next questions might have been about this Lee guy who was apparently supposed to be arriving at the Hulse home on the exact day at the exact time Darlene was attacked.

Speaker 7 Well, you'd be wrong.

Speaker 7 Instead, Lieutenant Criswell asked Ron what was wrong with his refrigerator light and then they moved on to talking about their relatives, basically to gauge if there were any creepy boyfriends of Darlene's sisters that had come around or anything like that.

Speaker 7 Ron said no, pretty much everyone within their immediate and distant circles were upstanding people.

Speaker 7 Ron admitted that there was some family drama between them and Darlene's parents regarding a family business, but it wasn't anything serious.

Speaker 7 They both came from religious families and weren't ones to let greed or spite destroy relationships. They were good, church-going folk who were all about love and giving.

Speaker 7 And speaking of church, Lieutenant Criswell then asked Ron why he and Darlene had hopped around to lots of different churches lately. Why not just stick with one?

Speaker 7 We went to First Baptist.

Speaker 59 We went for about a year and a half and just felt like we weren't getting what we needed.

Speaker 55 So we...

Speaker 55 visited a couple other and when we visited it was generally just for a Sunday or two and then we'd move on and got back to the First Baptist for a while and then we'd settle in down at Liberty Baptist down in Rochester.

Speaker 55 There's probably a half dozen churches that we'd visited in the last two and a half years.

Speaker 38 Well, what exactly were you looking for?

Speaker 55 We're not out to be entertained. We want good basic Bible doctrine.
Okay, a lot of these people are out for the Sunday school programs for the kids and this and that.

Speaker 59 We're not.

Speaker 55 We just want a good preacher. That's all we're looking for.

Speaker 60 Your social life then would probably mainly revolve around the church.

Speaker 55 Even then we didn't have much contact.

Speaker 23 We were not party goers.

Speaker 55 We only go out to eat once in a couple months. Pretty thrifty, not extravagant.

Speaker 60 Well, during your travels from one church to the other, did there...

Speaker 60 was there ever a time that you felt that someone had taken a special interest in Darlene? You and I both know that usually you can tell when somebody's a little interested.

Speaker 55 No, I really can't.

Speaker 60 Anybody contact her from the church?

Speaker 55 Well, we were always getting letters from the other churches and stuff thanking us for our visitation and stuff.

Speaker 55 But as far as

Speaker 55 we had a couple of pastors come over for a visit, but no.

Speaker 55 She was a... Darlene was a hard person to talk to.

Speaker 55 She was real quiet, and she wasn't really one to open up to anyone. So I was generally around her all the time.
If people called ahead of time, she'd make arrangements so I could be there too.

Speaker 21 She was pretty quiet and shy.

Speaker 20 No, I can't think of anyone.

Speaker 54 No.

Speaker 55 If there had been, she would have told me. She'd have been awfully shook up.

Speaker 60 How about your marriage to Darlene in general? Did you guys communicate?

Speaker 55 Never went to bed, mad.

Speaker 38 Not once.

Speaker 60 You had differences, though.

Speaker 55 We've always had arguments and stuff, but no sleeping on the couch or running off to mama's house, not once.

Speaker 60 Ever had any fights?

Speaker 38 What I mean, you ever slap her or no.

Speaker 60 Or she ever slap you?

Speaker 38 No.

Speaker 55 Sounds like a fairy book, but we've really got a good marriage.

Speaker 7 Ron passed the polygraph with the conclusion stating, quote, after careful analysis of this subject's polygrams, it is in the opinion of the examiner that he told substantially the truth during his examination, end quote.

Speaker 7 Police never questioned Ron's alibi since he was at work when the crime happened, coupled with the fact that the girls saw the intruder and it wasn't anyone they recognized.

Speaker 7 But there had been some hushed whispers about him around town not long after the murder, because Ron gave an interview to the local paper, The Pilot News, saying,

Speaker 7 I just know it's his will. Darlene was ready.
I'm ready whenever he wants to take me, end quote.

Speaker 7 He went on to say in that same article that he didn't understand why something so awful would happen to his wife, but that it must have been God's will. He said,

Speaker 7 I don't understand, but I accept it.

Speaker 7 People side-eyed those remarks and gossip spread.

Speaker 7 Even online today, sometimes people point the finger at him. Sure, he wasn't the one who took Darlene, they'll say.
Otherwise, his daughters would have seen him. But he could have maybe hired someone.

Speaker 7 But let me tell you, that makes no sense. Darlene's attack was anything but a professional job.
The attacker didn't come prepared. He used her fire poker to subdue her.

Speaker 7 Ron is not now, nor has he ever been a suspect. And listen, I get his comments may feel strange to some people.
I'm not very religious myself, but I do come from a family that was.

Speaker 7 And I understand what he said. It was something that he could hold on to in a time where his whole life was upended.

Speaker 7 He also told the reporter that he thought Darlene's attack was random, which might have also been comforting in some way.

Speaker 7 After losing Darlene, Ron tried his best to be there for his daughters, but Marie said that some things were harsh reminders of what the family had had lost. Things like mornings spent with their mom.

Speaker 33 My dad hired a babysitter. Her name was Lori.

Speaker 33 And I remember being aggravated because I just didn't, I mean, she was fine, but I was like, I don't want to see her first thing in the morning. And he was, she was there instead of my dad.

Speaker 33 And it just felt lonely. I mean, my aunts chipped in, but it was more like, from my memory, they would watch us like after school, not first thing in the morning.

Speaker 33 And I remember the mornings being hard to me. I didn't like the mornings anymore.

Speaker 7 Eventually, the family established a new routine. Ron went back to work.
The girls went back to school. And Ron remarried a woman named Chris.

Speaker 7 One of Darlene's friends had actually set Ron up with Chris and the girls went on his first date with her.

Speaker 33 I think that when she married my dad, I know that she loved us and she didn't think she could have children.

Speaker 33 So, you know, you look at it from that perspective, like, I don't know that I could marry someone with three small children and take that role on. So that was a huge sacrifice on her part.

Speaker 7 Chris had been a substitute teacher in Argus, so the girls were familiar with her prior to her dating and marrying their dad. And the two are still together today.

Speaker 7 As Ron continued trying to rebuild their life and establish a new one with his new wife, police were going back to the drawing board.

Speaker 7 In an effort to draw in some new information, they went knocking on doors in Arcus.

Speaker 7 Police really wanted to know if anyone else had any problems with peeping toms or harassing phone calls or literally anything.

Speaker 7 One woman named Karen said she noticed a white car watching their house during evening hours, but it had been months since she'd last seen it.

Speaker 7 In fact, she said, she hadn't seen it since Darlene's murder. Another couple said their 18-year-old daughter had gotten creepy phone calls from a man.

Speaker 7 They said the man would ask when her dad would be home, how old she was, and if her parents were home.

Speaker 7 A woman named Marsha who lived nearby with her family said that she'd also gotten some creepy phone calls in the past year, mainly heavy breathing and dirty talk.

Speaker 7 Similarly, a neighbor named Rex said that his household had gotten some calls with filthy language and they had happened three or four times since Darlene was killed.

Speaker 7 Rex also said they had one strange visitor who said that he was a preacher, but he had a car full of girls with him.

Speaker 7 And then some other neighbors reiterated rumors that police were already familiar with, involving involving Ricky Mock and Danny Bender.

Speaker 7 Since so many people had talked about having phone calls from creepy men and because so much time had passed and investigators were really starting to spiral, police decided to look into other crimes that they may have missed before.

Speaker 7 Maybe smaller things like break-ins, thefts, whatever. And they actually found a crime that interests them.

Speaker 7 A break-in, an attempted sexual assault that happened at a house just a stone's throw away from where Darlene's body was found.

Speaker 7 It happened in December 1982.

Speaker 7 It was early in the morning, and a woman was at home asleep when her phone rang.

Speaker 7 The man on the other end asked if her husband was home, and the woman, I'll call her Pam, said that no, he was at work and he wouldn't be home until later that evening.

Speaker 7 They hung up and soon after, a man man came bursting through her front door and running down her hallway to her bedroom.

Speaker 7 The man pinned her to the bed, but Pam was able to fight him off before he was able to assault her. And he gave up and ran back out the front door.

Speaker 7 In 1985, when police went back to look at the details of this case and compare it to Darlene's, Pam's case was still unsolved. And the location was almost eerie.

Speaker 7 The woman's home, where she was attacked, was just across State Road 110 from where Darlene's body had been found off Olive Trail. I mean, like, even in a small town, this was strangely close.

Speaker 7 Now, the problem was, again, Pam's case was unsolved. So, weird, yeah, connected, maybe.

Speaker 7 There was some blood from the intruder left at Pam's house, and I know they tried to compare it to at least one of their known suspects, Robert Zabrowski, that traveling carney.

Speaker 7 But it wasn't a match for his blood type. So it seems like the idea of a connection while there didn't further the case.

Speaker 7 And the investigation into Darlene's murder slowed down as police got busy working other violent crimes in the area.

Speaker 7 In August 1986, a night manager at the Plymouth Dairy Queen was shot and killed at work. In October 1986, a 47-year-old woman died in a suspicious fire at her house in nearby Bremen.

Speaker 7 And on December 11, 1986, 11-year-old Brandi Peltz was sexually assaulted and strangled in her house in rural Argus, just 1.5 miles north of the Hulse home.

Speaker 7 Brandi's murder shocked the community that was still recovering from Darlene's murder. And Brandy's case even hit close to home for one of the Hulse daughters, Marie.

Speaker 7 She and Brandi had been in the same grade in school. That just tells you how small this town was.

Speaker 33 She rode my bus and she didn't go to school that day and we were on the same bus route and

Speaker 33 our house was further out than her house and she was not on the bus and we were coming home from school that day and we saw smoke billowing out of her house. It just,

Speaker 33 it just felt surreal because that was just a couple years later, I think.

Speaker 7 December 11th, 1986 had been a Thursday. And Brandy wasn't feeling well, so she stayed home from school.
She was old enough to stay home alone.

Speaker 7 So Brandy's mom, Roxy, Roxy, went to work at Holland's Hardware. During her lunch break that day, Roxy went home to check on her daughter and bring her some lunch.

Speaker 7 Everything was fine, so Roxy returned to work.

Speaker 7 And sometime after she got back, Brandy called her mom and said that someone had just called the house and was breathing heavily into the phone, but the person didn't say anything.

Speaker 7 Now, this had happened before, apparently, and it creeped them out. So Roxy had previously notified the telephone company, but she hadn't reported the calls to police.

Speaker 7 Now, because this had happened before, it was kind of part of their routine. Brandy let her mom know, but she said she felt safe and she felt fine at home.

Speaker 7 So they hung up and her mom said she would see her after work.

Speaker 7 But later that day, around 3 p.m., a school teacher driving on Old Highway 31 saw smoke coming from the Peltz house.

Speaker 7 So he stopped at a neighbor's house and asked them to call the Argus Fire Department. He then went back to the Pelt's home and went inside.

Speaker 7 First, he let out a barking dog and then he walked around the first floor. And as he was yelling for anyone inside to get out, he went inside the bathroom and found Brandy's body in the tub.

Speaker 7 When police got there, they immediately noted the kitchen telephone had been ripped out of the wall receiver, which told them that Brandi likely tried to call for help when her killer came inside.

Speaker 7 They also thought that it looked as if her body had been placed in the tub after she was killed. The autopsy revealed that Brandy had been sexually assaulted and strangled.

Speaker 7 The water from the bathtub and the fire in the house were most likely efforts to cover up any evidence left behind.

Speaker 7 These days, if you go to Argus and ask locals about the unsolved murder, they bring up Brandy. This is the case that people remember, the little girl violated and murdered in her own home.

Speaker 7 Someone even self-published a novel about it. And even though it's fiction, the author admitted that it's about Brandy's case.

Speaker 7 Though most people from Argus dismiss the book entirely, calling it sensational and untrue.

Speaker 7 The South Bend Tribune ran an article on December 14th, 1986, about how many calls police were getting about Brandy's murder.

Speaker 7 In the story, reporter John Wilcox wrote: People here are concerned, remembering and wondering if there is any connection between the Pelt slaying Thursday and the yet unsolved August 1984 slaying of Darlene Hulse, who lived just one and a half miles away.

Speaker 7 The Tribune quoted an anonymous coworker of Roxy's who said, quote, a lot of things like that are going through our minds. Quite a few people have been talking about it in private, end quote.

Speaker 7 That question was the right one. Are they connected? If they were, it meant investigators' worst fears were confirmed.
Their killer wasn't some evil man just passing through town.

Speaker 7 He was living among them, and he wasn't done.

Speaker 7 Local police decided it was time to to get some assistance from the feds. So Sergeant Yokolet wrote the FBI and spelled it all out in a letter.

Speaker 56 The undersigned, investigating the homicides of Brandi Peltz and Darlene Hulse and the home invasion of Pam, has investigated these crimes from the standpoint of being individual cases, and that the assailants responsible for those cases are separate individuals and that these cases are unrelated.

Speaker 56 And it is only coincidence that they have occurred within a particular geographical area.

Speaker 56 At the same time, this officer has geared my investigations to include that very well: that all three of these cases may be linked together, and I base that opinion on several similarities that I feel exist in each of these cases.

Speaker 7 You'll get the Fed's take and a brand new suspect in episode 7: Bring in the FBI. You can listen to that right now.

Speaker 7 Here on the deck, our work is all about finding the truth for those who deserve it most.

Speaker 7 But there are some stories where the truth is so obscure and the web of lies is so complicated that it's almost impossible to unravel.

Speaker 7 On Chameleon, host Josh Dean puts the pieces of these stories together to tell you about some of the most shocking cons, frauds, and imposters in history.

Speaker 7 You can listen to these stories now on Chameleon, the newest show from Audio Chuck, every week, wherever you get your podcasts.