Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)

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Speaker 2 Our card this week is Gwendelle Greenblatt, the Six of Diamonds from Florida.

Speaker 2 If you've ever been alone and felt like you may be in trouble, maybe you called someone, made it known that you were on the phone, made it clear that someone else was listening, but chatting on her cell while walking up to her apartment in sunny South Florida during broad daylight, Gwen couldn't have sensed that her life was in danger.

Speaker 2 And even the friend on the other end of the line had no way of stopping the evil that was lurking just behind Gwen's front door. I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is the deck.

Speaker 2 It was close to 3:30 in the afternoon on Wednesday, February 5th, 2003, when a woman named Christina was talking on the phone with her friend, 35-year-old Gwendelle Greenblatt.

Speaker 2 The two were catching up as Gwen was in the car making the about 20-minute drive home to West Palm Beach from her job as a massage therapist at the luxurious Breakers Resort in Palm Beach.

Speaker 2 Christina and Gwen had met through their jobs at the spa, but had become increasingly close as both women's marriages unraveled. Here's Christina.

Speaker 4 She said, I'm going to be in the same boat as you. I'm going to be going through a divorce and we'll just, we'll make it together.
We'll make it on our own together and we'll be here for each other.

Speaker 2 Impending divorce was actually the topic of conversation that very day as Gwen arrived at the Royal St.

Speaker 2 George apartment complex and approached unit 8312 where she lived alone, talking to Christina along the way.

Speaker 4 She knew that I had had a therapist appointment that day, so she was checking in on me, knowing that I was going through my possible divorce separation, and I was very emotional.

Speaker 4 And so being supportive, she was calling, checking in on me to see how my appointment was.

Speaker 4 And I was just going on and on, telling her about what I had discussed with the therapist and what the therapist was telling me

Speaker 2 and then their conversation came to a sudden and chilling halt

Speaker 4 so she let out a huge scream and i heard her dog barking so i knew she was home she lived on the top floor on the third floor had outside stairs very very very steep stairs So immediately when I heard her let out this scream and heard her dog barking, I thought, okay, she had gotten home.

Speaker 4 She grabbed the leash, was going take the dog out for a walk and fell down the stairs. That's what I thought.
And I thought she hurt herself.

Speaker 4 And so I'm waiting on the phone and I keep saying, go ahead and pick up, go ahead and pick up and nothing. I didn't hear the dog barking anymore.
I didn't hear her making any noises.

Speaker 4 I heard nothing, but I knew the phone was still connected. I got on my cell phone and called her home phone.
So now I had all our lines linked up and her old style answering machine picked up.

Speaker 4 And I could hear myself through the phone talking and leaving the message. And I was saying, Gwen, pick up the phone now.
You're scaring me. I'm super worried.
Pick up the phone.

Speaker 4 If you don't pick up the phone, I'm going to call the police. Pick up the phone now.
And nothing.

Speaker 2 Christina wasn't making empty threats.

Speaker 2 Hearing nothing on the other end of the line, she immediately called 911 and gave them Gwen's address as she waited by the phone at home some 30 to 40 minutes away for an update.

Speaker 2 But the waiting was torture. Knowing first responders were on their way, Christina called their other friend, Sarah, who lived even closer and asked her to go to Gwen's and find out what was going on.

Speaker 2 Here's Sarah.

Speaker 7 I just was closing up my house and I threw the kids in the car and drove down there. And by the time I got there, the police, everybody was there.
And they're like, you can't come in.

Speaker 7 It's a crime scene. I'm like, that's one of my best friends.
So they're questioning me. And I think I must have said, what did he do to her or something like that?

Speaker 7 And they're like, who are you talking about? Who are you? And I'm like, oh, my God, calm down. You know, I'm traumatized at this point already.
And I said, her husband, and they all look at me.

Speaker 7 They're like, she's married. And I'm like, she separated.
And then I saw them bring her out and they were still, they were working on her.

Speaker 7 And all I could see was the side of her head, like almost gone.

Speaker 9 And so I'm like, cover her up.

Speaker 7 You know, they're trying to save her life.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, cover her up. She was such a

Speaker 7 private person, very modest. You know, and here I'm thinking, oh my God, we're going to laugh about this in a couple of hours when you get back to your room at the hospital.

Speaker 7 Even after seeing her, you know, you still think, no, I'll talk to you in a little, in, in a little while. And I said to the cop, tell her I'm here, tell her I'm here.

Speaker 7 And the cop started to say to me, well, I don't think she's going to know.

Speaker 2 As you probably know, we wouldn't be here if Gwen had just suffered an accidental fall down her apartment building stairs. And that much was clear to the trained eyes of the West Palm Beach police.

Speaker 2 As soon as they arrived and found Gwen, they knew that she had actually been shot. Here's the detective on the case today, Aaron Sam, describing how and where in the apartment they found Gwen.

Speaker 10 Once the officers get there, they discover the door slightly ajar and immediately see when you walk in, stuff on the floor, sweater, a shoe. keys, and a cell phone.

Speaker 10 They call her name, they call out, they don't hear too much. They're walking around, and it's a very small apartment.
And

Speaker 10 two officers eventually find her, hear her moaning in the closet. She's collapsed, but first, I guess she's sitting down in a laundry basket.
She's got two gunshot wounds.

Speaker 6 Shot in the face and shot through the top of her head. Assassinated.

Speaker 2 That was investigator William Frazier interjecting there. He's currently with the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office, but he used to work closely with Detective Sam on Gwen's case.

Speaker 2 There was no sign that Gwen had been sexually assaulted, and nothing appeared to have been taken from her apartment. So whoever had shot Gwen, it appeared their sole goal was to take her out.

Speaker 2 And by the looks of it, she was chased down and cornered at the back of her apartment with nowhere else to go when they did it.

Speaker 6 Like Detective Sam stated, there was personal items belonging to her, the most significant being the sweater on the floor.

Speaker 6 Well, she ran out of her sweater because when the police recovered her sweater, it was turned inside out.

Speaker 6 So just picture yourself running and I grab you by the back of the sweater and you run out of it and the sleeves turn inside out.

Speaker 6 Thinking about the case thousands of times over and over, at the end of the day, she ran the wrong way because she ran into a dead end. I don't falter for that, but it's a fact.

Speaker 6 If she had gone the other way outside the apartment, maybe we would never know her name

Speaker 2 The shooting took place in the back closet where Gwen was found She had dropped her cell phone right at the front door, and that might explain why Christina didn't hear anything else, but the dog barking That dog was Gwen's Jack Russell Terrier Shaquille who police found unharmed wandering the apartment with his leash on detectives surmise that Gwen likely put his leash on right as she got home in the few moments she had before she was ambushed.

Speaker 2 Which tells her friends something important

Speaker 4 that dog was likely familiar with whoever had been laying in wait for gwen it was not a friendly dog so that was another thing that we always thought about is this dog was not like let me just lick you and everything's going to be okay anytime i even would come over the dog would bark And honestly, I kept my hands up because I was afraid the dog was maybe going to snap at me.

Speaker 4 Very protective dog.

Speaker 2 The only thing in the way of evidence they found around Gwen in the closet were bullet casings from a 380.

Speaker 2 While the proverbial smoking gun itself wasn't left behind, there was another piece of evidence outside the apartment that was still letting off smoke. Literally.

Speaker 6 The police officer said when they were bringing Gwen out on the gurney to take her to the hospital, he said, look, the killer left his cigarette butt on the thing. It's still burning.
I mean, come on.

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Speaker 2 The cigarette butt was found directly outside of Gwen's door on top of a box that housed a fire alarm pole.

Speaker 2 There were only three other apartments on that floor, and no one else seemed to be around at that time of the murder.

Speaker 2 So combine that with the fact that most residents appeared to smoke on their balconies, not the outside area where this butt was located, this made it seem like it very well could have belonged to their killer.

Speaker 2 And there was one additional cigarette butt on the ground below this one that was collected too.

Speaker 2 That one was extinguished when it was discovered, but from what detectives could tell, it still looked to be pretty fresh.

Speaker 2 So while the police response was fast enough to catch the smoking cigarette before it burnt out, sadly, no one could have responded fast enough to save Gwen.

Speaker 2 She died from the direct shots to her head pretty shortly after she was transported to the hospital.

Speaker 2 The news of her death was a blow to her friends, Sarah and Christina, who had been praying that she would pull through.

Speaker 2 Ever since Sarah had arrived at the crime scene, both women had been trying to get in touch with Gwen's loved ones.

Speaker 2 One way or another, Gwen's family back in her home state of Pennsylvania did get word of what was happening, and immediately they made their way down to South Florida.

Speaker 2 Gwen's only, quote, family in the immediate area was her husband of about five years, who she was separated from, Matthew Greenblatt, who went by Matt.

Speaker 2 Now, they'd been living apart for a few years, but according to those we spoke to, Gwen had wanted to work things out and try and stay married.

Speaker 2 Matt, on the other hand, appeared to have different plans. He seemed to be leading her on, keeping her close by with no intention of actually recommitting to her.

Speaker 2 But Sarah told us that his controlling, game-playing behavior seemed to have been pushing Gwen to a breaking point.

Speaker 2 And just the day before her murder, Gwen told Sarah that she was going to do something about it.

Speaker 7 We were on the phone. She was getting more upset and more upset.
And normally she could just handle her calm.

Speaker 7 And finally, I could tell she was really upset. And then she started crying.

Speaker 2 And I said, what happened?

Speaker 7 And she said, I just, I can't take it anymore. And she said, I just, I, I told him I was going to go to the attorney.
And I said, what did he say?

Speaker 2 And he said, I'll kill you if you do. And she was dead at 3.30 the next day.

Speaker 2 It's a bit unclear who ended up reaching Matt to notify him about the incident.

Speaker 2 But Gwen's friends estimate that sometime within about two hours or so of the shooting, Matt showed up at the hospital, seemingly oblivious as to what was going on.

Speaker 2 Investigators were already clued in on the couple's tumultuous relationship by that point.

Speaker 2 So they were curious to see how Matt would respond when they broke the news to him that Gwen had been murdered.

Speaker 6 Matt never, ever, ever

Speaker 6 became

Speaker 6 emotional regarding the death of his wife. He accepted the fact that she'd been shot and killed.
He initially cooperated with us 100%.

Speaker 6 And the communications didn't

Speaker 6 begin to become acrimonious until he sat in this very room that we're sitting in right now

Speaker 6 and detective dawn eyman figured out quite rapidly that the several accounts that he gave regarding his whereabouts first he was getting a pizza then he was getting a haircut then he was getting a video well take your pick we never were able to verify and vet his alibis they just didn't work But he never began sobbing or crying hysterically or anything else like that.

Speaker 6 He accepted the fact that she was dead. I believe he already knew she was dead.

Speaker 2 Detectives have never been able to speak to anyone who could vouch for Matt's whereabouts during the time Gwen was killed. And at least some versions of his story were simply unverifiable.

Speaker 2 He told police he was getting a haircut, but when they checked the books at the place he mentioned, there was no record of him signing in.

Speaker 2 He also told police he went to Hungry Howie's to pick up some food, but they couldn't verify that either.

Speaker 6 This could only happen to Aaron and I. Hungry Howie's is a national restaurant chain.
It's all over the place. The only place they don't keep records, Florida.

Speaker 2 Authorities were able to execute a search warrant at Matt's place within the first week, but nothing connecting him to the crime was discovered. But nothing not connecting him to the crime was either.

Speaker 2 Like his phone activity, for example. When investigators analyzed his phone and computer data, it revealed Matt was on them pretty consistently.

Speaker 2 Except, interestingly, for a window right around the time of the homicide when there was a stark period of inactivity.

Speaker 2 Through his electronics, detectives said that they discovered Matt was having multiple affairs with exotic dancers, something he wasn't open about when they first asked him about the state of his marriage.

Speaker 2 And not all of these affairs were casual hookups either. Matt seemed to be someone who was living completely separate lives, having ongoing relationships with at least four other women.

Speaker 2 Detectives had discussions with several of them, all of whom declared they had no idea that they'd been dating a married man. Married, but separated, but married nonetheless.

Speaker 2 And while they all painted a pretty bad picture of Matt, describing him as emotionally abusive, controlling, jealous, even keeping constant tabs on them, none of them claimed to have any insight into the murder of his wife.

Speaker 2 The more detectives learned about Matt and Gwen's relationship, the more suspicious they became.

Speaker 2 Gwen's younger brother, Chad, was aware of the troubles in his sister's marriage almost from the get-go.

Speaker 11 I remember very clearly, like right after they got married, it wasn't too much longer that she had found out that Matt was cheating on her. And I remember she called my mom like frantic.

Speaker 11 And I remember all this. And my mom flew down to Florida and, you know, was there to console my sister.
And from there, they pretty much split.

Speaker 11 Not permanently. They were living separately, but trying to work things out.
And I had a lot of conversations with my sister. She would, I was like, hey, when are you going to give this up?

Speaker 11 Like, you know, isn't enough enough already? And, you know, I'm the little brother.

Speaker 10 Like

Speaker 11 hindsight's 2020, you know, I wish I would have pushed harder for that, but I was a 23-year-old kid.

Speaker 2 While her family heard about Gwen's difficulties with Matt over the phone and through sporadic visits, Gwen's Florida friends had a front row seat to the drama that ensued.

Speaker 2 Despite all the affairs, it seemed like Matt still wanted to keep Gwen on his roster.

Speaker 2 Now, she wasn't allowed to move on, but he had free rein to do whatever he wanted and his own key to get in and out of her apartment when he wanted.

Speaker 7 Yeah, he made his own key. And he would sit there in the dark and wait for her to come home.
She'd turn the lights on when he'd be sitting there.

Speaker 4 Every time we're together, she's getting phone call after phone call. Like he would blow up her phone.
Just call, call, call, call. Sometimes she's like, I'm not going to answer.

Speaker 4 And then sometimes she would answer and I would hear him yelling.

Speaker 2 Even though they were separated, investigators told us Gwen and Matt were still seeing each other sometimes. Matt himself told them that they'd been intimate just a few days before the homicide.

Speaker 2 Though apparently that last part comes only from Matt. But as you heard Sarah say before, any ambivalence Gwen had been feeling about Matt and the marriage seemed to be over.

Speaker 2 Gwen was adamant with Sarah. No more back and forth with Matt.
She wanted out, which feels like real motive, even more so when investigators learned about the money side of things.

Speaker 2 You see, Matt and Gwen had a prenup in place. Detectives told us that Matt claimed the agreement was his family's idea.
Apparently, they were pretty well off.

Speaker 2 But detectives said Matt also stood to lose in the event of a divorce. Gwen had brought in around 70 grand to the marriage.
And so if she and Matt ever got divorced, she would get that 70 grand back.

Speaker 2 And that meant that Matt would have to pay up.

Speaker 6 A very wise detective said to me, Billy, it's always three things.

Speaker 6 Sex, drugs, money.

Speaker 6 This murder here falls into that category. What's the answer out of the three?

Speaker 6 Money. 70,000 reasons reasons why Greenblatt was murdered.
That's my belief. Matt didn't want to pay that $70,000.

Speaker 2 Now, with Gwen dead and still legally his wife when she died, instead of losing money in a divorce, Matt actually stood to make money off her death.

Speaker 6 And there was an insurance policy on Gwen. Not a lot.
It wasn't a big one. When we found out there was an insurance policy, we got excited, but it was like $10,000, something like that.

Speaker 6 And he collected on that insurance policy.

Speaker 2 That wasn't the only money at stake. Apparently, detectives said there was also something with real estate, the house he and Gwen previously lived in together before they separated.

Speaker 2 Like maybe he needed Gwen's signature to officially sell it, and perhaps he'd been frustrated that she'd been holding out.

Speaker 2 None of this was a good look for Matt, but none of it was enough to put a warrant out for his arrest either.

Speaker 6 Everything that I've just told you is entirely supposition on my part. It's not evidence, it's theory,

Speaker 6 and theory and three bucks will get you a cup of coffee. You know,

Speaker 6 you got to be able to prove what you say.

Speaker 2 So how could they prove it?

Speaker 2 Well, investigators had at least one idea.

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Speaker 2 While questioning Matt for a second time on February 7th, detectives tested his hands for gunpowder residue, and the results came back positive.

Speaker 2 Matt didn't have a history of owning guns, and no one police spoke with had any knowledge of him using or trying to get access to a gun. Feels like a slam dunk, right?

Speaker 5 Wrong.

Speaker 2 To investigator Frazier and Detective Sam, gunshot residue testing is considered unreliable, with experts claiming that there can be other factors at play that can cause inaccurate results.

Speaker 2 It's not the type of testing that holds up in court. But what does have a better chance of holding up in court? Good old DNA.

Speaker 2 Matt had consented to DNA swabs when he was first questioned, and detectives found that it matched DNA on the sweater investigators believed the attacker likely yanked off as Gwen was trying to get away.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 2 knowing that Gwen and Matt had been together recently and that he had spent time at the apartment, The presence of his DNA ended up being a moot point.

Speaker 2 So, investigators turned their sights to the cigarette butts found just outside Gwen's door. Matt's story was that he wasn't anywhere near Gwen's apartment when she was killed.

Speaker 2 If a still-burning cigarette had his DNA on it, it would prove that he was lying and would put him at her apartment at the time she was killed.

Speaker 2 This seemed to be kind of their last hope in the way of physical evidence, but they were feeling good about it. I mean, even the brand Marlboro Menthol was the same type that Matt was known to smoke.

Speaker 2 Hopes had to have been soaring when they got the results back. The extinguished cigarette on the ground, yep, that matched Matt's DNA.

Speaker 2 But here's your warning. The higher you let your hopes go, the harder it hurts when they come crashing down.

Speaker 2 That other smoldering cigarette had a single source DNA from an unknown male. Detectives didn't know what to think or what this might mean.

Speaker 2 Was it possible that Matt had an accomplice, or could this have been a murder for hire? Matt didn't offer up any names of any people he thought might be responsible.

Speaker 2 And outside of Matt, Gwen's loved ones couldn't come up with anyone else who they thought would want to hurt her.

Speaker 11 You know, she was just like a super cool person. Everybody loved her.
You know, she was just nice to everybody, a kind soul, funny, charismatic.

Speaker 4 She was an angel. She was not into anything.

Speaker 4 She didn't do drugs. She barely even would have a glass of wine.
She didn't know any people like that. She was just working and taking care of herself and completely straight and narrow.

Speaker 4 And it's like, why would somebody want to do that to her? She lived so modestly because she was paying her own bills. This one little tiny one-bedroom apartment in West Palm Beach.

Speaker 6 Gwen Greenblatt was an innocent victim, totally innocent, clean as the driven snow. She was.
She was a lady that all she wanted was a husband who was good to her, faithful to her.

Speaker 6 She wanted to have children. She wanted a family.
That's what she wanted. She's a good, good, good person.

Speaker 6 And that, for me, makes it a personal matter.

Speaker 2 Investigators confronted Matt with the fact that his DNA was found on Gwen's sweater and the one cigarette butt found on the ground outside.

Speaker 2 And even though it wasn't the thing that was going to do him in, surely at this point, it was enough to make him realize that he was police's prime suspect.

Speaker 2 Detectives said he denied it all and became agitated, ultimately leaving the West Palm Beach police station, never to return again.

Speaker 6 Matt never once, ever,

Speaker 6 from the first week in February of 2003 to present day, he's never once contacted any police officer, particularly my colleague, Detective Sam, who's walked up on Mr.

Speaker 6 Greenblatt on more than one occasion and had conversations with him, but he never once inquired about what happened to Gwen. Not once.
Not against the law, but it tells you something about Mr.

Speaker 6 Greenblatt.

Speaker 2 Despite the circumstantial evidence pointing to Matt, detectives had hit a dead end.

Speaker 2 Throughout the following years, they continued to investigate Matt and his associates to see if they could find the person whose DNA was on that smoking cigarette butt.

Speaker 2 While it's clear police had Matt square in their sights, I don't want you to get the impression that they didn't run down other possibilities too.

Speaker 2 I mean, they spoke with Gwen's coworkers, they looked into the possibility of surveillance footage, they canvassed Gwen's apartment complex.

Speaker 2 One tip even took them all the way to Jamaica in pursuit of a teenager, this neighbor who'd apparently moved abruptly after Gwen's murder.

Speaker 2 But Investigator Frazier told us that turned out to be nothing. Evidently, he'd come to the U.S.
to live with his brother and simply missed home and wanted to go back.

Speaker 6 I feel that we as detectives had gone down every rabbit hole we could go down. And, you know, I made the comment on many occasions when Gwen's death would come up.
I says, real simple.

Speaker 6 Tell me who owns the cigarette butt on the poll box and we'll solve the case. Just give me a name.
And then one day, someone comes in and says, I got a name.

Speaker 2 It was a name no one recognized.

Speaker 1 Richard Ingle.

Speaker 2 His DNA was put into CODIS about a decade after Gwen's murder when he was arrested on federal fraud charges. But according to Investigator Frazier, he did also have a violent history.

Speaker 2 arrests from 2001, including for domestic battery and domestic aggravated assault with a firearm. Richard was serving his time in a South Carolina prison on those other federal fraud charges.

Speaker 2 So in 2013, Detective Sam and Investigator Frazier traveled out of state to meet with him.

Speaker 2 At first, it sounds like he assumed the detectives were there for something related to the fraud stuff, but they cleared up their reason for being there pretty quickly.

Speaker 12 It's a murder investigation.

Speaker 2 Our reporting team obtained audio from the detectives meeting with Richard that you'll hear throughout this section.

Speaker 12 Your name has come up in a murder investigation.

Speaker 13 That's why the date is here. That's why he has said help to help speak to us.
And as he said,

Speaker 13 at any time, you're free to leave.

Speaker 13 But we would like to speak to you

Speaker 13 and answer our questions, if you don't mind. Well, I mean, I would like to because I have no idea.
I mean, but I also know that I have to

Speaker 13 I've never been in a situation like like this, and I have no idea who this is,

Speaker 13 how my name could come up in this.

Speaker 2 Detectives proceeded to show Richard pictures of Gwen's apartment.

Speaker 2 And while he claimed he didn't recall ever being there, he did mention that he had lived close by and used to deliver pizzas in that area, but that all those apartment complexes looked the same to him.

Speaker 2 Richard also said that he wasn't a smoker back in 2003, said he didn't pick up the habit until later. But even then, Investigator Frazier posed a hypothetical.

Speaker 2 Well, if you were going to smoke, what type would you go for?

Speaker 12 What would I?

Speaker 13 What kind of cigarette would I go for? Yeah,

Speaker 13 probably

Speaker 13 marble menthol light? Marble menthol light.

Speaker 9 Right.

Speaker 2 Next, they showed Richard a photo lineup of some men, including Matt, and asked him if he recognized any of them. Richard said no.

Speaker 2 He denied knowing Matt or Gwen when they showed him pictures, said they didn't even look familiar. So they moved on to the most damning piece of evidence they had.

Speaker 2 The reason they were there in the first place.

Speaker 13 I want to show you this right here. Alright?

Speaker 13 That's a color photograph, right? What do you think that is?

Speaker 13 What's that look like?

Speaker 13 Cigarette? Yep.

Speaker 13 What kind is it? It looks like a marble

Speaker 13 cigarette on the outside. You save a get some DNAs on that cigarette.

Speaker 9 Yours.

Speaker 13 I wouldn't know how. The only way I could think is that you've got to be wrong because I

Speaker 13 was never in that area. Well, or would do anything like that.

Speaker 6 It's never happened to me once in my life. Where a person have said, after being advised that scientists have identified you through DNA examination and investigation,

Speaker 6 that your DNA is present.

Speaker 6 I've never had anyone other than Richard Ingle tell me I was wrong. That's the same, the question we always ask when we sit down with someone.
Hey, tell me about your family.

Speaker 6 Got any brothers and sisters? Any twins? No.

Speaker 6 Okay,

Speaker 6 it's you.

Speaker 2 But back in the interrogation room in 2013, Richard wasn't giving in. He didn't even seem to try and come up with a reasonable explanation as to why his DNA would have been at the scene.

Speaker 2 He was more so denying the science, adamant he was never there.

Speaker 13 So now, if you will, play detective with me for a moment. You be the detective.
You be the detective. Sit on my side of the table right now.

Speaker 13 And you tell me, what the hell am I supposed to do with this right now? Because I'm telling you, sir, that's your DNA on that cigarette right now. I'm telling you that I know I didn't kill somebody.

Speaker 13 Okay, could you possibly have gone with someone that killed somebody? Never.

Speaker 2 Now detectives had a new theory that Matt Greenblatt and Richard Engle worked together. And they had a hunch as to how it may have played out.

Speaker 6 Aaron and I have theorized that Mr. Greenblatt and possibly his accomplice waited on that third floor landing and were looking out into the parking lot waiting for Gwen.

Speaker 6 Matt Greenblatt definitively stated that Gwen would be home. You could set your watch by it that Gwen would be pulling into the parking lot at a specific time because she had to get to the dock.

Speaker 6 So think about it. They have a key to the apartment.
Mr. Ingle is smoking a cigarette.
Matt says, here comes Gwen.

Speaker 6 Ingle, me being a prior smoker, one more hit, subconsciously sets it on the fire pole box. They go in.

Speaker 6 The murder is committed. They leave.
And he forgets the cigarette butt.

Speaker 6 And there's another cigarette butt on the ground. And Matt stated he never smoked cigarettes at the front of the apartment.

Speaker 6 He always smoked them in the back and flicked them off the railing into the yard. And guess what we found down there when we looked?

Speaker 6 All the Marlborough menthol cigarette butts that he had flipped off into the ground.

Speaker 2 They confronted Richard, but he continued to deny it all.

Speaker 13 You don't believe me? Absolutely not. You're lying like a fing hug.

Speaker 13 You're lying.

Speaker 13 You're lying. I'm not a murderer.

Speaker 13 Dude, I don't know what to say.

Speaker 13 I gotta be thinking of

Speaker 13 the day.

Speaker 13 Now, what you've done now is now

Speaker 13 you have created a scenario. Now you've created the hunt.

Speaker 12 And you know who I am?

Speaker 13 I'm the lion. And you know who you are? You're the bunny rabbit.

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Speaker 2 I am never going to be someone who has time to like bake my own bread or show up with cute little holiday-themed apps to any party, but I am also a true Midwesterner, so I am not showing up empty-handed or with store-bought cookies.

Speaker 2 So, Gray's Craze has saved me. I don't even transport the charcuterie board in my car.
We did a Halloween party at our friend's house.

Speaker 2 I had the board delivered right to that house, and it came beautifully wrapped with this cute little note and everything. Everyone was raving about it.
So, this is my new go-to forever.

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Speaker 2 The investigators left Richard in prison that day convinced he wasn't telling them the truth.

Speaker 2 So then a new effort began, trying to find a connection between Richard and Matt to bolster their theory that they were accomplices. But spoiler alert.

Speaker 2 We're over a decade out now from that confrontation in that South Carolina prison, And that has proved to be difficult.

Speaker 2 No phone records revealed any communication between the two, and financial accounts disclosed no payments from Matt to Richard.

Speaker 2 Detectives couldn't find any witnesses who could say that the two had ever had any contact with each other either.

Speaker 2 It sounds like the prevailing assumption was that the two would have just been casual acquaintances, like maybe they'd met somehow, somewhere, and then Matt hired Richard to help him commit the murder.

Speaker 2 Outside of the fact that Richard lived nearby at the time, investigators tried to pinpoint other commonalities between them, and they had some loose ideas as to where they could have crossed paths.

Speaker 6 We know that Mr. Greenblatt is a strip club affectionato.
He likes strip clubs. He did at the time.
He patronized them. Did Ingle patronize strip clubs? I don't know.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 They also looked into the idea that Richard really could have just been at the scene because he was delivering a pizza.

Speaker 2 Although at the end of the day, he'd still been steadfast that he'd never been to Gwen's apartment.

Speaker 2 But employment history showed that the last time he worked for a pizza place was fall of 2002, at least a couple of months before the murder.

Speaker 2 And if you can recall, Gwen's neighbors really hadn't been around at the time of the murder. I mean, no one investigators ever interviewed thought that they even ordered a pizza that day.

Speaker 2 So so far, investigators haven't been able to find any evidence from inside Gwen's apartment that is also a match for Richard's DNA.

Speaker 2 Though as technology improves, they do plan to continue retesting items to see if anything new pops up. Investigators have also kept tabs on Matt.

Speaker 2 In 2015, Detective Sam traveled out west to take another crack at talking to him.

Speaker 10 We had tracked Matt down, I mean, because he's a fisherman. And he was doing a tournament in Arizona.

Speaker 10 So loaded up the plane, went out there, and we figured out where it was being held and it was like a little hotel or something like that where they checked in.

Speaker 10 So basically me and I think it was another detective waited in the lobby, found out that he had come in and then as he was walking back out is when I met him right there in the lobby.

Speaker 10 We go back to the car because that's where all our stuff is. He agreed to talk to us, asked him to, as we're speaking, just tell the truth, nothing but the truth.

Speaker 10 We get into it and he goes into their marriage marriage was fine. They weren't going to get divorced.
We were in love, that type of thing.

Speaker 10 We talked about the cheating and that's when he basically said, yeah, I did.

Speaker 10 We talked about the real estate.

Speaker 10 He said that really wasn't a problem, which was kind of confusing because when you're getting conflicting statements from people, her friends, saying that it was a problem, you know.

Speaker 10 And then we got to the fact of, towards the end, because he was getting a little antsy in regards to Richard Engle.

Speaker 10 And do you know this person? Do you know that name? And he said, no. Showed him a picture.
No, I don't know him at all.

Speaker 2 Towards the end of their conversation, Matt shut down and said if they had any more questions, they could talk to his lawyer.

Speaker 2 In Detective Sam's opinion, Matt came across as a liar because he was contradicting things he'd originally told investigators. as well as things other reliable witnesses had told them.

Speaker 2 When asked about Ingle, Detective Sam told us that Matt appeared unfazed. And that's where investigators need your help to step in.

Speaker 2 Is there anyone out there with information that can help detectives establish a connection between Matt Greenblatt and Richard Ingle?

Speaker 2 Our reporter Madison tried reaching both of them, hoping to push them on this subject, but as of this recording, neither of them have gotten back to her.

Speaker 2 Gwen's brother Chad thinks that Matt holds the answers he's looking for.

Speaker 11 What I would say to Matt is, you know, if you really didn't have anything to do with this, why don't you give us a call? You know, why don't you help us solve this?

Speaker 11 If it really wasn't you, maybe we can sit down and talk about it and put our heads together and come up with something maybe we haven't thought about before.

Speaker 11 You know, other than that, I don't have anything to say. I've often envisioned sitting in a courtroom watching a trial and seeing somebody pay for what they did would be fair.

Speaker 11 But at the end of the day, I just want to know what happened. I just want to know.
Not knowing is, you know, it's tough.

Speaker 2 Rather than imagining Gwen's fear during those final moments, her loved ones like to remember her at her happiest.

Speaker 2 They picture the former dance instructor who had a passion for performing jazz captivating a room, grinning from ear to ear. gliding gracefully across the floor.

Speaker 2 Investigator Frazier and Detective Sam want their suspects to envision something too. A time when it'll be their turn to encounter someone on the other side of their front door.

Speaker 6 Listen for the footsteps.

Speaker 6 And I'm not kidding.

Speaker 10 It's not going away. As a detective for a victim who's no longer here, you actually become the speaker for them.
You know, you got to speak for them.

Speaker 10 So we continue to speak for them because somebody has to bring somebody to justice.

Speaker 2 If you know anything about the murder of Gwendelle Gwen Greenblack in West Palm Beach, Florida at the Royal St. George Apartments on February 5th, 2003, please come forward.

Speaker 2 You can remain anonymous by calling Crime Stoppers of Palm Beach County at 1-800-458-8477.

Speaker 2 We'll have all the ways that you can contact the West Palm Beach Police directly in the show notes and the blog post for this episode.

Speaker 2 The Deck is an audio Chuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about the deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com.
So, what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

Speaker 15 This is one of the most sensational crimes ever to explode in Hollywood.

Speaker 14 In 1989, Beverly Hills police found Jose and Kitty Menendez gunned down in their mansion.

Speaker 2 And the killers, their two sons.

Speaker 14 Why did you kill your parents?

Speaker 6 Because we were afraid. But were Lyle and Eric cold-blooded murderers or victims no one believed?

Speaker 14 I'm Celicia Stanton, and my new series on the Menendez Brothers is out now.

Speaker 2 Listen to Truer Crime wherever you get your podcasts.