Lawrence Riegel (5 of Spades, Washington)

What is personal care?

A network of more than 6,000 doctors so you find the perfect match.

Doctors that get to know your story to support your life's next chapter with comprehensive support services to keep you healthy.

A care team that doesn't just treat your body, they listen and treat the whole you.

Hill Physicians, personal care for everybody.

Get the Hill Physicians Advantage at open enrollment.

Visit hillphysicians.com.

The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus.

In 2007, Amanda Knox was halfway around the world studying abroad in Italy.

She had no idea that her dream would turn into a nightmare.

This limited series is inspired by the actual events of her wrongful conviction and 15-year fight for freedom.

Watch the Hulu original series, The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers.

Terms apply.

What if you could turn your curiosity for true crime into a degree?

At Southern New Hampshire University, you can.

Southern New Hampshire University offers over 200 degrees you can earn completely online, including subjects like forensic psychology, criminology, and crime analysis.

And with low online tuition, Southern New Hampshire University makes earning your degree affordable, flexible, and achievable.

Find your degree at SNHU.edu slash deck.

That's snhu.edu slash deck.

Our card this week is Lawrence Regal, the five of spades from Washington.

When Lawrence was reported missing on January 10th, 2010, he didn't exactly vanish without a trace.

Between mysterious phone records and strange theories from a recluse who lived in an isolated trailer park, police had a good idea what his last movements were and with whom he interacted.

Specifically, they honed in on two people who seemed very suspicious in the wake of his disappearance.

But they needed more than suspicions to make their case.

And detectives are sure that someone out there knows what happened to the man that they still call Lost Larry.

I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is the deck.

Susan Regel Vaughan is the youngest of five siblings.

And every year on the day after Christmas, she got to reunite with her adult siblings at their mother's place for a post-Christmas family dinner.

Everyone always looked forward to their brother Larry's famous peach pie.

But for the first time, she could remember, in 2009, there was no pie.

There was no Larry.

He didn't show up for dinner on the 26th.

And I knew right then, I was like, something's wrong.

Why isn't Larry here?

Susan had to travel in from Snohomish, Washington to the dinner at their mom's house.

But it would have been local for Larry.

I mean, he only lived a few blocks away from his mom.

So there was no reason he shouldn't be there.

So after that missed dinner, Susan began trying to reach Larry in earnest.

I mean, she couldn't get him on his cell, but when she tried his home phone, Larry's living girlfriend of almost four years picked up.

Though 49-year-old Ladina and 57-year-old Larry had moved in together after only six months of dating, they had known each other for a lot longer.

Ladina had actually dated one of Larry's cousins years before their relationship began.

And that's when she told me that he was really depressed because nobody had called him on Christmas Day.

Or she said he hadn't talked to anybody on Christmas Day.

And I said, well, that's not true.

Other people had called and talked to him.

And she said, well, he was upset because

he had to call everybody and nobody actually called him.

Ladina said that Larry had taken a trip to Seattle on Christmas night to visit friends, a trip that would have taken more than two hours by car.

And when Susan heard this from Ladina, she thought it was odd.

I mean, her brother hated the city and he didn't have any friends in Seattle as far as she knew.

Plus, Snohomish, where Susan lived, was right near the Seattle area.

Why would her brother make that trip and not let her know?

You know, I'd lived over there for 25 years.

And

during that time, my brother came over there when our dad was passing away, when our mom had knee surgery, when I got married, one time for school shopping for his kids.

And that's all I can ever remember.

This call with Ladina did nothing to assuage Susan's worries about her brother.

So much so that two days later, while she was still in Yakima for the holidays, she went and stopped by Larry and Ladina's house.

Now, Susan only found Ladina there, who said that Larry was still on his Seattle trip.

She said she hadn't seen him since he left.

But Susan couldn't shake the feeling that something was off.

I mean, Larry had recently had major neck surgery and was in a fragile state.

He'd been reporting pain and weakness in his left shoulder to his doctor just two days before Christmas.

It was so bad that he could no longer run his construction business or continue working as a pilot, picking up and delivering plane parts by air.

Now, Larry relied on welfare benefits to get by.

So Susan was skeptical of what Ladina was telling her.

And over the next week, she wrestled internally with the story of Larry just leaving without work, missing Christmas dinner, and not picking up her calls.

He always picked up her calls.

Larry was a great big brother to me.

He took me for show and tell in first grade

because I was born at the end of May and he carried me from desk to desk.

And he made little chains for my tricycle for the wheels so I could ride it out in the snow and ice during the winter time.

I was together with him a lot,

probably more than the other girls because I was the youngest and I just kind of tagged along with him.

By the time the first week of January passed and Susan still hadn't heard anything, she decided to call up one of Larry's close friends, this guy named Ray.

It just so happened that Ray had sold Larry a car and Larry was in the process of paying him back.

So they were in regular contact.

Ray said, gosh, I've been trying to reach Larry for a week because I came home and Larry's car was in my driveway with the keys in it.

And I can't reach Larry and Ladina told me that Larry wasn't going to be making any more car payments.

Ray said that Larry's car had appeared in his driveway four days earlier on January 4th.

And by the way, it was Ladina, not Larry, who had returned it.

This struck Susan as strange because there was no reason for Larry to get rid of his car.

And there was no reason for Ladina to be the one to return it to Ray.

Also, this should mean that Larry was back from Seattle.

And yet, Susan still hadn't been able to make contact with him in more than two weeks.

Since she was now back at her home in Snohomish, hours away, Susan called their sister Candy, who lived near Larry.

It was time to get really serious.

She wanted Candy to go file a missing persons report with the local police department.

Candy was on board right away, but she hit an immediate brick wall.

When she called up the local department, the police dispatcher refused to take a report.

They said Larry was a grown man and that his family should just wait for him to come back.

Then they hung up on her.

Now, when our team asked Yakima PD about this, they said that their department would never hang up on someone over something so serious unless the caller was being inappropriate.

But that still is Candy's recollection.

Now, back in 2009, she was determined.

So she got her husband to call back.

And when this man was on the line, it seems like they changed their tune.

They still didn't want to take a report, but they did give him more context as to why.

They said that Larry's girlfriend Ladina had already come into the station on January 5th, not to report that Larry was missing, but to report that Larry had assaulted her on January 4th, the same day that she had returned Larry's car.

Ladina reported that Larry had hit her multiple times in the face.

I've just never known my brother, you know, and he wasn't violent with either one of his wives.

Now, verbally, he could blister your ears, but it didn't go beyond that.

Of course, no one knows what happens behind closed doors.

And the idea of violence wasn't totally out of nowhere.

Susan does remember Larry accusing Ladina of physical abuse in the past.

In July 2009, Susan was visiting Larry in Yakima, and she said that she saw bruising on the inside of Larry's leg.

And Larry told her that he'd gotten drunk, passed out, and that Ladina had beaten him up while he was unconscious.

Larry laughed it off, Susan said, but he told her that Ladina had a temper and routinely hit him when she was angry.

Detective Nolan Wentz, who previously worked on Larry's case, told R reporter Laura Frader that he'd heard similar stories from one of Ladina's ex-husbands.

He told me straight up that he was really happy to get out of the relationship because he was certain she was going to kill him.

The family didn't know exactly what to do now that police basically shut them down.

So they started calling more people.

They were trying to put together their own timeline, but they couldn't find anyone who had seen or spoken to Larry since Christmas Day.

But they did hear something from Larry's then 30-year-old son, Brian, that made them even more suspicious of, you guessed it, Ladina.

Summer's winding down, and it's the perfect time to ease your child back into learning with iXL.

iXL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning through fun, engaging, and personalized content.

iXL is used in 96 of the top 100 U.S.

school districts and is the perfect tool to keep learning going without making it feel like school.

My nephew isn't always the biggest fan of school, so getting him to practice math outside of regular homework was necessary, but such a headache for my sister.

But with IXL, he actually has fun learning now, and it's boosted his confidence in a way that makes him proud of the skills he's mastered.

Make an impact on your child's learning, get IXL now, and the deck listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at exl.com slash deck.

Visit exl.com slash deck to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.

Whether you're lounging poolside, hitting the beach, or relaxing at home, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to fit in a few minutes of language learning.

For me, it is my 40-minute commute to and from work.

Me time is hard to get as a working mom, but I can squeeze in language learning on the go with Rosetta Stone.

Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years.

Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language on desktop or mobile, whenever and wherever it fits your summer schedule.

Don't wait.

Unlock your language learning potential now.

The deck listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off.

That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life.

Visit rosettastone.com/slash deck to get started and claim your 50% off today.

Don't miss out.

Go to rosettastone.com slash deck and start learning today.

Turns out, Brian had called his father on the house phone the morning of December 28th, the very same day that Susan had stopped by.

But while Ladina had told Susan that Larry was still away, she told Brian something different.

Ladina said that Larry was still asleep and just couldn't come to the phone.

Now hearing this, Susan had finally had enough, so she called Yakima police back.

I said, well, nobody has heard from or seen him since December 25th, about 6 o'clock that night.

And I said, except Ladina.

I said, and nobody else can reach him.

And she was quiet for a moment and she said, I think you need to come to Yakima and file a missing persons report.

And I hung up crying and my husband drove me.

On January 10th, Susan drove to Yakima from Snohomish.

The whole car ride was hell.

She called Larry's kids and her sisters to try and make sense of Ladina's stories one last time, but nothing was adding up.

And she told police as much when she arrived at the station at around 3 p.m.

that day, tired and drained.

Naturally, police started their search for Larry by going straight to speak with Ladina at the home she and Larry shared.

And she repeated the same story she'd given to police a week earlier.

Larry had hit her and then left their house on foot between 6 and 7 p.m.

on January 4th.

According to police records, Ladina thought Larry might have returned to the house at some point, like she noticed that some of his shirts and hangers were missing.

but she couldn't offer further details.

She told police that she'd returned Larry's car to Ray to deter Larry from coming back to the house.

The police records don't say if Larry's trip to Seattle was discussed or whether Ladina had any idea where Larry might have gone after their fight.

During that January 11th conversation, police asked Ladina if they could take a look around the house, and Ladina was very willing to let them in.

In fact, she let them see around the entire property inside and out.

The police report from that day makes a note that there were no signs of foul play, but it is pointed out that multiple rifles were missing.

Ladina told them that Larry had taken them out during hunting season and then they just never reappeared.

And then, Ladina also made a point of telling them that her German shepherd, Woofie, had recently died and he was buried next to the shed that they had on their property.

She told police that they were welcome to go and dig up the burial spot to confirm it was animal remains.

So, police did just that.

After all, when someone unprompted shows you a burial site and tells you that you can dig it up if you want because there's nothing to hide, you take them up on it.

Here is Detective Drew Shaw, who was one of the first officers assigned to Larry's case, and he still works it today.

I remember digging a couple of feet down into the ground in a shirt and tie until I found a dead dog.

But again, we had to,

since there was clearly some disturbed dirt on the property, and we later verified that the dog did die after being treated at a local vet.

After police talked with Ladina, they went about trying to check off all the places where you might find someone if they did walk off on their own.

They checked a local bar where Larry was a regular, along with county jails, local hospitals, but he wasn't in any of those places.

Police had come to learn that Larry's mother owned a farmhouse on the nearby Yakima Reservation, and Larry was acting as the landlord and rented it out.

So they even tried calling up Larry's tenant, a guy named Don Martin.

Police couldn't tell us exactly why they reached out to Don initially, but my guess is they wanted to see if Larry was there or if Don had come in contact with him recently.

And Don told them yes.

In fact, he had heard from Larry very recently, but he didn't actually talk to him.

Don said that Larry left 13 drunk and rambling voicemails on his phone New Year's Day.

According to the police report, Don couldn't share the voicemails with police because he said by that point, he'd already erased most of them.

But after this, police began doing some more research on Don.

It turns out he had been introduced to Larry through Ladina.

Ladina and Don knew each other from the bars that they both frequented.

And at the time that Larry went MIA, Don actually owed Larry some rent money, at least according to Larry's family.

Unfortunately, though, that's a little tough to verify because there was no written rental agreement between Don and Larry.

It was just kind of this handshake deal.

And taking Don's word for anything would prove to be difficult the more investigators learned about him.

According to police, Don was a prolific liar.

Even his own brother deemed him untrustworthy.

Detective Wentz had some cutting words to say about Don.

I don't believe Don had the ability to be truthful with anybody.

His entire history, in fact, everybody that talked to me told me all of this history that goes from when he was in the military.

I guess he bragged about being in Vietnam and being a tank commander.

He never made it out of Germany, so he never did go to Vietnam.

In the 70s, Don briefly worked as a dispatcher for the Yakima Police Department.

He was let go when police realized he had a substance use disorder.

Don also spent some time in jail for harassment.

Now, police wanted nothing more than to firm up a timeline for Larry's last known movements.

But it was like the more people they talked to, the less sense the timeline made.

But if you ask Susan, nothing about anyone's stories ever made any sense.

And she shared all the fishy details with police, starting with that first phone call she had with Ladina on the day after Christmas.

The story was that he had walked out Christmas night and went to Seattle to pawn some jewelry, play poker,

and make some money.

And one, if you don't have very much money, you're not going to be gambling and take a risk of losing more money.

Secondly, he liked a good card game, but he was not into high-stakes poker at all.

Thirdly, we have pawn shops in town and nothing's going to be open on Christmas Day or, you know, on the weekends and stuff.

It was just an odd, odd story.

Now, remember, on December 28th, Susan stopped by Larry and Ladina's house to see if she could find her brother.

We know that once she got inside, Susan saw no signs of Larry.

But she ends up telling police that when she sat down with Ladina in the house, she was kind of expecting Ladina to act a little more concerned about her partner of nearly four years.

Like I mentioned earlier, he wasn't in good shape after his neck surgery.

But Ladina seemed the opposite of worry.

She was in her pajamas, giggling and twirling her hair.

She repeated that story of Larry having left for Seattle on Christmas evening.

Ladina said that she had packed some clean underwear, couple of t-shirts for him, along with some of his jewelry.

Now, also remember, this is the same day that Ladina had already told Larry's son, Brian, that his dad was home, but just asleep.

But Susan is adamant, she didn't see any trace of her brother in that house.

Instead, she saw a woman who seemed totally unrattled by the fact that her boyfriend had disappeared during the holidays.

I mean, these were very serious conversations, and yet she was very animated during the entire conversation.

She kept bouncing around on the couch and folding her legs underneath her and flipping her hair and laughing, kind of this nervous laughter.

And the hair on the back of my neck was just standing up this whole time.

And I'm thinking, something is going on here.

I was sitting in my brother's chair and his little dog sat right there by me and she kept looking at me and she'd look at me and she wouldn't leave right there.

And I always thought that was really strange.

Susan remembered something else from that conversation.

Ladina said that Larry had taken his cell phone, but he hadn't brought his charger.

The message was clear.

Don't bother calling him.

His phone was probably dead.

Was it, though?

Police ended up getting Larry's phone records, which helped them not only see what activity was or wasn't there for the weeks he'd been missing.

Detective Shaw also told our reporter Jennifer Amel that it helped them establish his normal phone activity.

Larry spoke on the phone a lot.

He made a lot of phone calls and they did basically

stop around Christmas of 2009.

And then there were a few sporadic ones four or five days later to a few different family members and nothing.

Did anyone report actually speaking to him on the phone?

There was no conversation with anybody.

And then so you're comparing that to what you already know and the family going, you know, he would never go two weeks without calling his sister or his mother.

He stays in contact on a regular basis.

Police saw that on Christmas Day, Larry made a call to his son, to his sister Candy, and to a few friends.

The last call he made on Christmas at 5.23 p.m.

was to Don, the guy who allegedly owed him rent money.

That call lasted four minutes.

And then after that four-minute call, there isn't a single outgoing call for the next four days.

Now, Larry's phone comes back to life on December 29th with a few outgoing calls to friends, to his own voicemail, and to Susan.

No one, however, actually spoke to Larry on any of those calls.

According to police, the phone was shown to be at Larry and Ladina's home when these calls were made.

But the accuracy of that data is not 100%.

Detective Shaw said that it could have meant that Larry's phone was anywhere between two and about 1,600 feet from the house.

One thing was certain, though, there was no way Larry's phone was in Seattle.

Now, we didn't have access to Larry's phone records past December 30th.

So unfortunately, we don't have any way to corroborate Don's account that Larry called him on New Year's Day.

And we don't have anything to suggest that after this, there was any more activity.

But you know whose phone did call Dawn a lot between December 26th and January 7th?

Ladina.

Police had pulled her phone records too, and those showed that she and Don exchanged 15 phone calls during that period, which was pretty interesting considering that Ladina and Don told the police they weren't close.

During one call placed the day after Ladina filed the domestic violence report against Larry, Dawn and Ladina spoke on the phone for over an hour.

And that is a call that stuck with Detective Wentz.

I said, well, you guys are doing phone calls.

What did you guys talk about?

And she told me nothing.

According to police, neither Ladina nor Don could remember what they were talking about during any of those phone calls.

Now, once the phone records had been picked apart, One burning question remained.

Where was Larry's phone now?

They knew it wasn't in his house.

They'd searched there.

But what they hadn't searched yet was Larry's car.

So they made a visit to Ray.

And guess what they found?

It is hard to believe, but kids are already heading back to school, which means those classroom germs are about to find their way back home.

Fortunately, with GoodRX, you can save up to 80% on prescriptions for you and the whole family pets too.

Check GoodRX before every trip to the pharmacy for big savings on both brand and generic medications.

Here's the scoop.

GoodRX is free and easy to use.

All you got to do is search for your prescription on the website or the app, compare prices, and get a free coupon to show your pharmacist.

You can use GoodRX to save at over 70,000 local pharmacies nationwide.

And we're talking about Walmart, Walgreens, CVS, Publix, Kroger, and many more.

And did you know that GoodRX rewards you for saving money too?

Join GoodRX Rewards Today and earn points every time you use a coupon.

Remember, GoodRX is not insurance, but works whether you have insurance or not.

And it could be your insurance copay price.

For simple smart savings on all those back to school prescriptions, check GoodRX.

Go to goodrx.com slash deck.

That's goodrx.com slash deck.

This summer, the sun isn't the only thing that can burn you.

Don't let your wireless bill sizzle your budget.

Whether you're booking road road trips or beach days, your wireless bill shouldn't slow you down.

Say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw-dropping monthly bills, and unexpected overages.

Mitt Mobile is here to rescue you.

And for a limited time, Mitt Mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month.

All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network.

This year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank.

Get this new customer offer and your three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mittmobile.com slash deck.

That's mittmobile.com slash deck.

Upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month.

Limited time new customer offer for first three months only.

Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan.

Taxes and fees extra.

See Mintmobile for details.

Larry's car looked perfectly normal.

There was nothing inside to suggest anything had happened to Larry in the car.

But right there, in the glove box, they did find Larry's cell.

They verified it by checking the serial number.

But when police looked for the SIM card, they were quickly disappointed.

That was gone.

When our reporter, Laura Frader, asked if any forensics were done on Larry's phone, police said that they couldn't confirm one way or another.

So, why would Larry leave on his own by foot and take just his SIM card with him?

Police's best guess, he wouldn't.

On February 8th, police paid Ladina another visit to ask if she would be willing to take a polygraph test.

They had mentioned it to her about a week or so prior.

They said it would help eliminate her as a person of interest.

But Ladina refused.

So in an attempt to make the visit worth their time, they asked her if she could at least give them Larry's mail.

They wanted to pass it on to his mother for safekeeping.

ladina said no to this too

but before police left they did get something of interest from her when they asked ladina if she had larry's ebt card which larry used to access his welfare benefits she said yes i do have the card and she admitted that she'd been using it

That was certainly one of those things that makes you go, you're either just, you know, just kind of a piece of shit to steal somebody's funds like that, or you're just keeping that that lie alive as long as you, as long as you can.

Oh, that's an interesting angle that she was

maybe trying to make it seem like Larry was using those cards.

But if Ladina was trying to keep up any kind of ruse that Larry was back or coming back, she wasn't very good at it.

According to police, Ladina was hosting yard sales, selling off Larry's personal property.

All while at the same time, Susan was hosting events of her own, including fundraisers to raise money for a billboard with Larry's picture on it.

She hoped the sign might drum up more police leads.

She actually showed our reporters the flyers that she's saved over the years.

Here we are with our spaghetti feed.

This was the first fundraiser that we did.

So like on this one, I'll just show you.

We had a quilt.

People donated these beautiful homemade quilts.

We had theme baskets.

This one, we did karaoke.

We had a silent auction.

We had dancing.

And so we charged $7 at the door.

Susan didn't do this for weeks or months.

These were efforts that she carried on for years, while everyone agreed that Ladina's story didn't make sense.

But unfortunately, police lacked enough physical evidence to prove any wrongdoing.

By 2013, detectives had run out of leads.

But there was one thing Detective Wentz just couldn't shake.

The fact that Larry had called Don right before the lull in his cell phone activity.

Detective Wentz felt that if Don really had owed Larry money, Larry would probably have gone over to the farmhouse to get it from him.

Now, it had been years since police had spoken to Don at this point.

So in January of 2013, Detective Wentz sat down with Don at the police station.

Now, Don was in rough shape by this point, partially due to his substance use disorder.

Detective Wentz recorded his conversation with Don.

And interestingly, in this conversation at the station, Don presented a theory, a very specific theory about what might have happened to Larry.

And how he brought this up is so weird that you have to hear it.

So we're going to have two actors read from selected portions of the interview since we couldn't get access to the actual recording itself.

And listen, a lot of the conversation seems like a bit of a ramble, probably because of the state Don was in.

But what he was saying still had Detective Wentz glued to his seat.

We talked about

that car being left behind and then Ladina taking it to Ray Schul.

Mm-hmm.

That makes sense to you.

Yeah.

It does.

Why?

As As far as I know, that's what I was told had happened.

Oh, and I understand that's what you were told, but

the way Larry felt about his car, would that make sense?

Would he just up and leave it?

Up and leave everything he had?

No, I wouldn't think so.

Ladina even told you that uh the police department had all the weapons that he had the guns the police told me that?

No, no, no.

Ladina told you that.

Yeah, Ladina told me that.

And we talked about that.

Do you know how many guns Larry was supposed to have had?

No, but.

Did he tell you where he kept those guns?

No.

How do you know there were guns?

Well, I just took her, Ladina, at her

word.

That's what Ladina Ladina told you.

Yeah.

If Ladina did something with Larry, what do you think she would do?

Um, well, from what I got from her, she's scared to death of guns.

Scared of guns, okay.

Yeah, and then uh, if she was gonna do something, he

I would say she either poisoned him or stabbed him in the neck, in the back.

stabbed him in the back, yeah, with uh with

now, that's kind of messy.

It's gonna leave a big mess, yeah.

Poison him, why would you say that?

Well, he wouldn't know, you know, until it was too late.

Ah, I guess that would be one way of doing it.

Is there something

what makes you say that?

I don't know.

Well, I uh

I mean, it's just, uh...

I'm asking.

Enters my mind.

Just came into your mind.

Yeah, you know, what...

You know, if I were going to do Larry in, it would, you know,

it would probably be poison.

Okay.

So, if you poison somebody, then what are you gonna do?

Uh, get out of Dodge.

Just leave and go.

Yeah.

Well,

if you had a lot of stuff to lose by doing that, what would you do?

Larry never had a lot of stuff, but...

No, no, I'm not asking you what he had to lose.

Excuse me.

If you were in Ladina's shoes and you had just poisoned him, what would you do?

Get away from there.

Just run away.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that would make sense.

Okay, if you're not gonna run away, what would you do?

I would say be as calm and casual as possible.

Okay.

And I can't think of anything else.

I...

Well, would you leave the body there?

No, I'd probably take it and

like they said,

the mother, I mean, the daughters said, well maybe take him out in the pasture and dig a big hole and dump him in there and uh

which I never did

which I never did

I'm not saying you did anything uh yeah, but I I mean yeah that I that would be their thing to take him into the pasture.

Yeah

it's hard to know what exactly to make of this conversation.

When our reporter Laura interviewed Detective Wentz about it, he said that this was the strangest conversation to witness.

I mean, it took him a minute to even think through what this might mean for Larry.

Does that make any sense?

And I don't know.

You would think that if you're going to be poisoned, depending on what the poison is, it could progress.

Unless you have a body right away, you're not going to know.

I don't know forensically enough whether those things would settle in bones, because that's the only thing you're going to find now.

Laura reached out to the chief of medical toxicology, Dr.

Christopher Holstage at the University of Virginia's Medical School, where he's also a professor of emergency medicine and pediatrics.

Laura went through Larry's medical records from December 2009 to see if there was anything that could indicate poisoning.

But Dr.

Holstage saw no evidence of toxins in Larry's system.

As for Detective Wentz, he had no idea where Don had come up with this poisoning scenario.

And he had no way to check it out.

So as Don rambled on, Detective Wentz realized that he was hitting a wall.

I realized I wasn't getting anywhere and he was getting worse.

And I figured the best thing I could do was just get him back to his place so he didn't die on me in the police department.

That conversation would be the last one anyone from the Yakima PD would have with Don.

He died a year later.

And unfortunately, in the conversation they did have, he provided nothing that police could act on.

Ladina was still around though.

She remained in her and Larry's home and began living more and more as a recluse.

However, she did pop back up in the local media thanks to a fraud trial.

Remember how she had admitted to using Larry's EBT card to access his disability money?

Well, that disclosure came back to haunt her.

And in 2013, she was charged with first-degree theft by welfare fraud.

The charges, though, were ultimately dropped, much to the disappointment of Larry's family.

After Ladina's arraignment, she angrily responded to reporters' questions outside the courthouse, most of which were about Larry.

She complained to the Yakima Herald Republic that Larry's family had badmouthed her for years.

She told a reporter that she was certain Larry was still alive.

She She suggested that he was in Idaho or Montana, but didn't offer any further explanation as to why those states.

And there is no sign of Larry in Idaho or Montana or Washington or anywhere for that matter.

Larry's family firmly believes he's been dead since December 2009, though he is still technically listed as a missing person.

Over the years, a few tips have come in pointing police toward one familiar individual, Dawn.

And those tips have pointed to a possible location for Larry's remains.

But none of these tips have led to the recovery of Larry or even told police exactly what it is that happened.

Investigators were able to get familial DNA on file for Larry.

So if remains are found, police do have a way to identify them.

Today, Susan still believes that something sinister happened between Ladina, Don, and Larry, and that the answer might lie on the Yakima Reservation where Don was renting that farmhouse.

What I think happened is that

I think my brother was very angry at Don Martin about not paying the money.

There was that phone call to Don Martin, and I think they got in Larry's car and drove out there.

And Larry was never heard from again.

Detective Wentz told our reporter Laura that he shares this belief with Susan, but they're still lacking specifics.

An early search of the farmhouse where Don lived didn't turn up anything for police, so they don't have any proof of what could have happened.

And what role Ladina plays in all of this, Detective Wentz doesn't seem entirely sure of.

So you think that Christmas Day evening

that Larry went down to the farmhouse to confront Don about rent money?

You think that Ladina went with him?

That's a good possibility.

It sounds like that maybe she did, or at least she went down afterwards because she ended up having to collect his car and then she brought it back just out of the blue and left it over at Shul's place, the guy he had purchased it from.

And, you know, pretty definitive.

statement to say that Larry is not going to be able to make his payments anymore.

Here's the car back.

Ladina has never been charged in connection with Larry's disappearance.

Our reporters reached out to her for comment to give her a chance to share her side of the story, but she never responded.

A lot of people showed up for Larry as we put together this episode, but it was Susan who went above and beyond to participate.

She drove hours to meet with our reporters, all while living with a brain tumor.

And she came not just to share her theory about what happened to Larry, but because she wants people to remember Larry for more than his disappearance.

She wants you to know just how much he was loved by his family and their mother in particular, who thought that he could do no wrong.

So we called him Little Jesus.

I mean, because,

you know, kind of a facetious way, us girls, you know, oh, right, little Jesus can get away with anything.

But,

you know, but he was very charming.

He could charm my mom and he could charm any of us girls, you know.

he was just funny like that.

We were actually able to get a recording of that funny side of Larry.

Appropriately, a voicemail.

It's old and a little crunchy, but we wanted you to hear the kinds of messages that he left for his family.

In this case, his sister Candy.

Hi, Candy.

This is your younger brother,

you know, about 10 years younger than you are.

And

I've got these onions that I need to get rid of.

They're not sprouting or nothing, but some of them are starting to spout.

They're good onions, though.

And so, if I can have you come and get some for me, that'd be really nice.

And I'll love you just as much as I love you already, okay?

Anyway, you can give me a call back on my cell phone or it's a house phone.

And

love, love, love you, and I hope all is well with you.

So, I'll talk to you when I talk to you.

Bye, honey.

Detective Shaw said that if you know something about the disappearance of Lawrence Regal, now is the time to act.

You can call the Yakima Police Department at 509-575-6200.

Or if you want to leave an anonymous tip with Crime Stoppers, you can call 1-800-222-8477.

The deck is an audio chuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis.

To learn more about the deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com.

I think Chuck would approve.

Your home should show off who you are, telling your story in every detail, meeting you where you are.

Ashley has styles that balance timeless appeal and modern trends to bring your personal look home.

Pairing eye-catching design with features like stain-resistant performance fabric, Ashley offers well-crafted, affordable pieces built to stand up to real life.

Plus, they provide fast, reliable white glove delivery right to your door.

Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style.

Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach?

Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families.

With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids' spending with real-time notifications.

Kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely, and parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place.

Sign up for GreenLight today at greenlight.com slash podcast.