Moment 193: Hard Work Doesn't Equal Success…Try This Instead...: Former Netflix CEO

Speaker 1 You've finally broken loose from work. Three friends, one tea time,

Speaker 1 and then the text: Honey, there's water in the basement.

Speaker 1 Not exactly how you pictured your Saturday. That's when you call us, Cincinnati Insurance.
We always answer the call because real protection means showing up, even when things are in the rough.

Speaker 1 Cincinnati Insurance, let us make your bad day better.

Speaker 1 Find an agent at cinfin.com.

Speaker 2 What about hard work?

Speaker 3 Does it matter?

Speaker 2 Well, since you ask it so simply, I'd say no.

Speaker 2 Or it certainly is not the most important thing.

Speaker 2 In fact,

Speaker 2 I think hard work leading to success is a myth that...

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 let me give you two examples, okay?

Speaker 2 The first is to qualify what I mean.

Speaker 2 I work with a lot of, as we spoke earlier before we actually began the session,

Speaker 2 about how younger people are different places in their life than older people, especially with career and how they think about it.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 earlier in my life, I used to do triathlons. you know, the races that combine swimming and then biking and then running.

Speaker 2 And back when I used to do them, they don't do it quite the same way anymore. It would be a mass water start.

Speaker 2 You have four or five hundred people who are the gun sounds and all 500 of them plow into the water simultaneously, not a phased start. And as you can imagine, it is a shit show.

Speaker 2 You mean you're getting kicked and your goggles are being knocked off and you're being held underwater.

Speaker 2 And you quickly realize that if you want to be able to survive in this mass start, you're going to sprint for those first four, five, six hundred yards to get yourself far enough in the front of the pack that you have open water.

Speaker 2 And in my opinion, work life is kind of like that.

Speaker 2 When you're younger, when you don't really know what you're doing, when you have to go down a lot of false ends because you're not productive, you better work your ass off. You better sprint.

Speaker 2 You better work three times harder than everybody else in the company. So it's essential.
But ideally,

Speaker 2 you get yourself far enough ahead that you recognize, I can't go at this pace for the entire T of the triathlon. I needed to to get myself some breathing room, but now I can back off.

Speaker 2 So yeah, at certain points in your career, you need hard work. At certain points in the trajectory of your business, you need hard work.
Your fundraising?

Speaker 2 You can't say, oh, we're closing the round. I'm taking vacation for two weeks.
Oh, we're doing doing M ⁇ A. I'm going to be, I'm only going to work a couple hours.

Speaker 2 No, you're going to have to grind it.

Speaker 2 But that's not the answer. All right, one more little story, which is part two to this, which is why I say that it's a myth for hard work.

Speaker 2 So during one part of my career, I lived in Europe.

Speaker 2 I was doing international marketing for a big software company. We had an office in Paris.

Speaker 2 I lived in Paris.

Speaker 2 But I was meeting every week with the marketing people in our other branches. So probably four days out of five, I was flying.

Speaker 2 Fly to Copenhagen one day, then I'd fly down to Milan, then I might fly to London, then I might fly to Madrid in one week. So I spent a lot of time at the airport.
And

Speaker 2 because I'm sometimes not that organized,

Speaker 2 I'd be late. And you would find me just sprinting down the concourse in

Speaker 2 in my blazer and my wool coat trying to desperately make the plane. And what I found out was that probably

Speaker 2 49% of the time I'd pull up to the gate and the plane was delayed and I'd have to wander onto the plane, no problem at all. I could have made it on crutches.

Speaker 2 Instead, I'd sit there marinating in my sweat for another hour before the plane took off.

Speaker 2 Or the other 49% of the time I'd I'd come spritting down the concourse and you'd see the plane halfway out in the runway about to take off.

Speaker 2 And what I realized is it didn't make a difference whether you ran for a plane or not. That you're either going to make it or you weren't going to make it.
And that running didn't make the difference.

Speaker 2 And I vowed then and there I'd never run for a plane again and I never have.

Speaker 2 And I'm telling you that story because it's a metaphor in that so many entrepreneurs spend all this time running for planes. They are up all night polishing their deck.

Speaker 2 They're reviewing the work of people to make sure the spelling is correct. They're double checking every detail.
They are working so hard.

Speaker 2 But I know from experience that it's like running for the plane.

Speaker 2 Most of the time, it doesn't make a difference. You don't lose the deal.
at 2 o'clock that morning because you didn't check the fonts.

Speaker 2 You lost that deal four weeks ago when you didn't have some fundamentals right. Or you just weren't the right company to begin with.

Speaker 2 No matter how hard you worked, you weren't going to change the outcome.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that is the key to having some balance in your life as an entrepreneur is this recognition that if you're smart about the things that you choose to focus on,

Speaker 2 you make 99% of the difference. And that all that extra work does not really change the outcome any.

Speaker 3 And in that analogy of running for the plane is

Speaker 3 the key thing to have just better prepared further upstream, i.e., if we stick to the analogy, just have made a better decision to leave the house at a better time.

Speaker 2 Yes, it does, absolutely. I mean, if you want to make the plane, you know, you leave earlier.
And again, it's not sometimes, listen, you're going to stroll down the concourse. You don't need to run.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 if the plane left on time, running is not going to make the difference. If the plane's late, running didn't make the difference.
Either way, you made it or didn't make it.

Speaker 2 The amount of times that running for it was the gating item between whether you made it or not is like infinitesimal. So what's the point of running? And that's the same.

Speaker 2 And I really fundamentally believe that, is that

Speaker 2 if I can be really smart about my

Speaker 2 which problems I choose to focus on,

Speaker 2 I'll make the difference. I do not need to get everything right because most things don't make a difference.
Some things do.

Speaker 3 Some things do. And some of the small things that made a difference to your business seem to have been discovered through a process of sort of experimentation and failure.

Speaker 3 When I look back through your story, you're trying to get sort of Netflix to work and get product market fit, you referenced it a second ago. This idea of no late fees seemed to be quite pivotal.

Speaker 3 An idea you had to remove the late fees. I find this interesting because there's going to be entrepreneurs that build their idea and then bang their head against the wall and it doesn't work.

Speaker 3 And then I hear so often, whether it's from Brian Chesky at Airbnb or from someone else, Daniel at Spotify, that there seemed to be this one change that was quite pivotal to their business business at some point so my question becomes like how do i know how do i find the thing so can you explain to me why this no late fees thing and any of these other small changes that changed the game and how what was the system that led you to them

Speaker 2 you know we're talking about really finding product market fit product market fit if i have to give a definition is when you recognize you finally have something that customers actually do want

Speaker 2 and it's recognized because all of a sudden the momentum of your business dramatically shifts. All of a sudden things go into high gear.
All of a sudden acquiring customers is so much easier.

Speaker 2 All of a sudden they're sticking around. It's just this instantaneous, oh my God, we found it.

Speaker 2 And up until that point, it is this constant struggle. of trying one thing after another, trying to increment your way closer and closer and closer.
You know, when I mentioned that,

Speaker 2 you know, at the beginning, there wasn't a lot of business model innovation with Netflix. If you ordered a disk, we mailed it to you.
We charged you a due date, give you a due date.

Speaker 2 If you missed the due date, we had late fees.

Speaker 2 And the reality is, the idea was ridiculous. It didn't work.

Speaker 2 Nobody would rent from us. And if you did rent from us once, you didn't rent from us again.

Speaker 2 And we kind of had this realization that, okay,

Speaker 2 we got to begin figuring things out. And thus began this year and a half long process of trying to figure out some way to get people to rent DVDs by mail from us.

Speaker 2 And we tried almost everything you could think of, hundreds of things. And

Speaker 2 I kind of talk about this a bunch, that

Speaker 2 I had no shortage of ideas. I mean, I had lots of things I wanted to try.
And if there was any, if there was a problem that I had, it was that I was a bit of a perfectionist back then.

Speaker 2 And so all these tests that I'd want to run, I'd want them to be perfect.

Speaker 2 So we would, you know, lovingly argue over every word of copy and we would do custom photography and we would check every link and we'd stress test the site.

Speaker 2 And it might take us three weeks or a month to prepare for this test. And we'd test this new idea and then it would not work, wouldn't do anything.

Speaker 2 And we'd kind of look at each other and go, we just wasted a month. So, okay, faster.
And then we'd do a test in two weeks and it would still fail. Okay, okay, faster.

Speaker 2 And we'd do it in a week and faster. And we eventually started getting to the point we could do a test every day or multiple tests every day.
And it turns out that

Speaker 2 once you go that fast, things get very, very sloppy. So we would have the wrong image.
or it would have the watermark on it or the pages we had greeked would still be greeked you know not

Speaker 2 uh we'd have bad links we'd crash the site and then but that was such an incredibly big insight for us

Speaker 2 because it turns out that it didn't make a difference. That if it was a bad idea, even spending a month crafting this perfect test wasn't going to make it a good idea.

Speaker 2 But if it had even an inkling of being a good idea, no matter how bad the test was, it shone through. Customers would immediately perk their head up.
They'd raise their hand.

Speaker 2 They would fight to do it. They'd call call us.
They'd reboot the site. It was this incredibly loud signal that there was something there.

Speaker 2 And it goes back to what we said before, which is that it's not about having a good idea. It's about building this whole process and this culture and this system to try lots of bad ideas.

Speaker 2 And we got really, really good at trying lots of bad ideas, one after another, hundreds of them, each one informing us to

Speaker 2 some little bit about what to try next.

Speaker 2 And eventually we got to this point where we had these two big ideas left. And one of them was

Speaker 2 at that point, Netflix was pretty big. We had probably in our warehouse several hundred thousand DVDs.

Speaker 2 And I remember one day we were, Reed and I were in the warehouse and looking at all these DVDs and going, it's such a shame that all these DVDs are here in the warehouse where they're not doing anyone any good.

Speaker 2 I wonder if there's a way to store them at our customers' houses. Let them keep them.
And then when they're done, they mail it back. We'll just replace it.

Speaker 2 And rather than having them have to pay each time they replace it, let's just have a monthly fee, a subscription, and they can rent as often as they want. There's no due dates and no late fees.

Speaker 2 And it was a ridiculous idea. But when we tested it, it was that mythical product market fit.

Speaker 2 It worked. People loved it.
They couldn't get enough of it. They told their friends.
They did not cancel their subscriptions.

Speaker 2 Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job. You need the right person with the right background who can move your business forward.

Speaker 2 If you want candidates who truly match what you're looking for, trust Indeed Sponsored Jobs. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your post stands out to quality candidates who actually fit the role.

Speaker 2 According to Indeed data, 90% are more likely to be hired and trusted by 1.6 million companies. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.
Less stress, less time, more results.

Speaker 2 Now, with Indeed Sponsored Jobs, and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast13.

Speaker 2 Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast13 right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast 13.
Terms and conditions apply. Hiring?

Speaker 2 Do it the right way with Indeed.