The Infinite Monkey's Guide To… Love

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Speaker 10 BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Speaker 11 You're about to listen to an episode of the Infinite Monkeys Guide 2. Episodes will be released on Wednesdays, wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 11 But if you're in the UK, you can listen to new episodes first on BBC Sounds. For those old enough to remember renting videos in the days before all films and art and everything else lived in a cloud,

Speaker 11 we're talking to a Radio 4 audience here. Yeah, because everybody remembers renting videos who's listening to it.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, but this is also podcast and you sometimes get people in their 30s listening to that.

Speaker 11 Okay, that'd be DVDs then.

Speaker 8 Yeah, yeah. Alright.

Speaker 11 Anyway, you will recall that your chosen film would be prefaced by a Radio 1 DJ in the days when Radio 1 DJs were considered the highest form of moral authority.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we'll gloss over that.

Speaker 1 But anyway, but that DJ was, of course, Simon Bates, who would warn you of the possible contents of your VHS, and it might include scenes of a graphic nature and sexual swear words.

Speaker 1 So, today we've been told to give you a similar warning. This episode has been given the Lord Wreath Red Triangle, which means it will contain references to penises.

Speaker 6 Anyway, I'm Robin Ince.

Speaker 11 Is that the penis reference?

Speaker 4 Well done.

Speaker 1 I taught him everything he knows, but he's run wild now.

Speaker 14 It's a disaster.

Speaker 1 Who are you anyway? You haven't said who you are yet.

Speaker 13 No, I'm Brian Cox.

Speaker 1 I've got no idea why this episode should have any references to genitalia because it is the infinite monkey's guide to love.

Speaker 13 Well, it's fairly obvious, isn't it?

Speaker 6 That's not love.

Speaker 13 Yeah, I've told you that before.

Speaker 1 I refer you to the moral authority of the Radio 1 DJ.

Speaker 11 Listen, all love begins with mathematics.

Speaker 1 Now, there speaks the true physicist.

Speaker 11 Yeah, so let's begin with mathematician Hannah Fry and comedian Paul Foote back in series 13's episode on the maths of love and sex.

Speaker 6 Warning.

Speaker 1 The next sequence may well contain equations.

Speaker 9 There is a lovely piece of mathematics called the stable marriage problem.

Speaker 9 And essentially, it's you're at a party, and you have to imagine that there is a group of boys and girls who are trying to target each other.

Speaker 9 So each person at this party has an ordered list in their head of who they'd most like to date.

Speaker 9 And if you allow it to play out in a very boy-meets girl way, you can follow that through with a mathematical proof and show that every single time every person will end up finding a partner.

Speaker 9 But you can also prove that if the boys are the ones who do the approaching, they will always, always, always end up much better off than the girls will.

Speaker 9 And the thing is, that sort of goes against what a lot of people's strategy is when they're at a party because to risk humiliating rejection by going up to people and you know seeing if they like you, it doesn't seem like a particularly comfortable thing to do.

Speaker 9 But the thing is, by doing that, what you're doing is you're starting at the top of your list and you're working your way down.

Speaker 9 Whereas if you do the opposite, if you allow people to come to you, then you essentially end up with the least bad person who will approach you.

Speaker 9 So that I think is my first tip then is to be proactive. The math says be proactive.

Speaker 15 So to define by better off, you mean that essentially we're forming an ordered list of attractiveness, essentially. Exactly.
So one, two, three, four five, seven, nine, ten. And you're saying that

Speaker 15 by being proactive and approaching number one and then approaching number two, you'll get higher up your own list.

Speaker 9 Exactly. It's following something called the Gale-Shapely algorithm, that process of boy approaches girl, girl decides whether she likes boy and rejects him if she doesn't and accepts him if she does.

Speaker 15 But how do you know which ones are up for it?

Speaker 15 And also, wouldn't you be better off sleeping with all of them,

Speaker 15 seeing which is the better one and then choosing?

Speaker 9 That is another strategy.

Speaker 9 Scientists have been trying for a very long time to really capture the essence of what it is that makes somebody beautiful.

Speaker 9 And there are a few different things that sort of work, and one of them is symmetry, which is that people tend to prefer images of people with naturally symmetrical faces.

Speaker 9 But the thing about beauty is that every time there's a rule, there's sort of a counter-rule, if you like.

Speaker 9 Because while that works wonderfully for pictures of people's faces, when it comes to moving images, so videos or people in the flesh, actually people tend to prefer asymmetry because it's seen as much more authentic.

Speaker 15 Can I ask, what about if you have a symmetrical face but both sides are ugly?

Speaker 9 I mean, it's less than ideal. It's less than

Speaker 1 Steve Baxchall has no fear when it comes to the deadliest 60 animals in the world.

Speaker 1 In fact, he believes the most terrifying thing he's ever done was not a face-off with the Taipan snake, but the terror of the tango when he was a contestant on Strictly Come Dancing.

Speaker 1 Would you ever do Strictly Come Dancing?

Speaker 11 Was that the face-off, like, you know, John Travolta and Nicholas Cage face-offs?

Speaker 1 No, he didn't swap his face with that of a snake.

Speaker 1 They tried it, there just wasn't enough. It meant that the snake had a very heavy face, and Steve just had little eyes on the end of his nose.

Speaker 11 This has got nothing to do with the next clip.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's a pity. I've really been wasting everyone's valuable time there.

Speaker 11 Yeah, because here is Steve with ornithologist Tim Burkhead and Casey Brown discussing the mating rituals of a parrot.

Speaker 1 Warning, the following clip contains deviant dunnock behavior.

Speaker 18 Actually, the majority of birds don't have a penis. In fact, they just have a cloaca.

Speaker 18 And most mating is what's called cloaca kissing, where the two cloaca come together, can be very, very brief, and there isn't this extraordinary, elongated penis that you get in the Argentinian lake duck.

Speaker 18 But one of the most incredible things is that some of the birds that we see in our gardens all the time that appear to be the most common, the least sort of interesting of all, have the most extraordinary sex lives.

Speaker 18 And one of those would be the Dunnock, a bird which is a real common garden visitor here in the UK and is an absolute deviant. I mean, they come up to the mating season.

Speaker 18 He's a deviant, but he's just enjoying life.

Speaker 19 Yeah, no, it's not judged.

Speaker 14 It's not a judge of them.

Speaker 18 Well, except for the fact that coming up to breeding, the male's testes swell to about 8% of its body weight, which would kind of be like me having testes the size of a sack of potatoes.

Speaker 1 And then they will mate 30 plus times in a moment I know some of that laugh there come from people people just remembering some of the trousers you wore in Strictly Come Dancing see if there were any clues as to what time of year I know I think you're fine

Speaker 18 and with with with multiple different partners

Speaker 18 there are some birds that you will that their nests have been examined and 98% of those nests contain eggs from different parents and birds that may appear to be monogamous actually are really sneaky and a bit dodgy female birds don't they?

Speaker 19 They try and sort of keep all three or four males guessing as to who might be the parents.

Speaker 17 So I said, We studied a bird called the vasa parrot, which is probably the world's ugliest bird.

Speaker 17 It's a very big black parrot, but its main claim to fame is that the male has what we call the cloacal protuberance.

Speaker 17 And it's about the parrot's about 18 inches long, and this structure is about the size of a tennis ball.

Speaker 17 And a colleague of mine, who was the curator of birds at Chester Zoo, phoned me up one day and he said, I think you ought to come over here and have a look at our vasa parrots.

Speaker 17 They're mating at the moment. And as Steve has said, most copulating birds, it takes about two seconds.
These vasa parrots were stuck together for half an hour.

Speaker 17 And the male inserts this structure into the female and actually forms what's called a copulatory tie, just as in dogs. And they sit side by side.
He's presumably whispering sweet nothings in her ear.

Speaker 19 She's eating Jack Ak.

Speaker 19 Have I given too much away?

Speaker 19 Have I opened the book a bit too wide there, I think, maybe?

Speaker 17 And we thought, you know, okay, this is fantastic. My guess is that this must be something to do with sperm competition.
Nobody knew anything about avas of parrots in the wild.

Speaker 17 We went to Madagascar and did a study, and sure enough, it is the most remarkable avian mating system.

Speaker 17 The females own the nest, it's a hole in a tree, she comes out, sits on the top of another tree, and sings. Not many female birds sing.

Speaker 17 She sings, and males fall out of the sky to form a cue to copulate with her. And lots of them copulate with her.

Speaker 17 And then we did the DNA fingerprinting on the chicks, every egg has got a different dad.

Speaker 1 Right, that's the birds. Now, the bees.
One thing that we've learned from all these series.

Speaker 13 Well, you've learned more than one thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've learned another thing too.
I just wasn't going to talk about that. I was just going to talk about the one thing, but not the other thing.

Speaker 11 What's the second thing?

Speaker 1 I'm not going to tell you the other thing. We might save that for another episode.

Speaker 11 Right. Well, have you learned something about physics?

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Mainly what I've learned is my limitations. But the one thing I was going to mention this time was just how grotesque many animals' sex lives are.
And none, I don't think, more so than...

Speaker 1 You remember this bee behaviour you're about to hear?

Speaker 11 I remember this vividly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You could feel the frizzle of shock going across that live audience as they heard.

Speaker 11 Because their mating ritual is like a mid-air.

Speaker 1 Don't give it away. Don't give it away.

Speaker 1 The next clip may well contain sexual swear words and exploding mid-air genitalia. Here, discussing bee behaviour are comedian Catherine Bohart and ecologist Dave Coulson.

Speaker 15 Honey bees are interestingly different

Speaker 15 because the queens live for many years and the colony survives the winter, and that's why they make honey because there aren't any flowers in the winter, so they'd all starve to death.

Speaker 15 So they make kilos and kilos of honey at the end of the summer so that they can all sit tight in their nest through the winter and they've got something to eat.

Speaker 15 The more interesting differences is when it comes to the sex, but we can come back to that if you've got something more pressing.

Speaker 1 That sounded a bit creepier. I mean,

Speaker 14 I was going to talk about sex, but if there's something more pressing than. It's quite the gauntlet.

Speaker 20 It's like, you got something sexier than sex, Catherine?

Speaker 22 No, I was just going to ask if there's a Republican option, but

Speaker 22 no, please, let's talk about the sex and the monarchy.

Speaker 15 It's just quite weird. So the bumblebees are less exciting.
So they, the young queens, they just mate with one male.

Speaker 15 And he squirts in this kind of sticky gloop so that she can't mate again, called a mating plug.

Speaker 20 She'll be very quiet because the show goes out at 7:30 p.m.

Speaker 15 Honeybees have a completely different system where the queen, the young queen who hasn't mated, she goes on what's called her nuptial flight and she flies around, releasing a pheromone that attracts the drones, the males.

Speaker 15 And they mate in mid-air, so the males will jostle for position around her, and the first one will grab hold of her and mate with her.

Speaker 15 And they have this bizarre explosive mechanism that blasts sperm into the queen and it ruptures the male's genitalia and they fall off and he then falls to the ground dead.

Speaker 15 You can actually hear the explosion, it's like a little clap.

Speaker 16 Why are you listening?

Speaker 20 That's private, Dave.

Speaker 15 But they don't do it very privately, they're doing it flying. Anyway, and then the next male jumps on and he has to pull away the bits of the previous male's.

Speaker 15 And then he explodes and

Speaker 15 that goes on on and on until about 20 of them are lying dead on the ground.

Speaker 15 And then she decides she's had enough and that's it for her mating for life. You'd think that probably would be enough.
And she stores that sperm.

Speaker 15 There's something like 1.7 million sperm she stores enough to basically produce 2,000 babies a day for the next seven years.

Speaker 4 Who would make that a nuptial flight?

Speaker 10 There's no romance to it at all, Dave.

Speaker 15 Well, maybe from a bee's perspective, there is. You know, I guess they have a different idea of romance to us.

Speaker 11 One thing you learn as a physicist is to look on the bright side. So next time you go on a disastrous date, find solace in the fact that on your way home, you realise your genitals didn't explode.

Speaker 1 Unless they did, obviously.

Speaker 11 Yeah. Yes, they did.

Speaker 1 Because, I mean, you've told me before in the laws of physics that ultimately everything might happen.

Speaker 1 You know, someone, not necessarily out there who can hear us in this universe, but there's someone in a universe who has now just returned from a date and gone, do you know what?

Speaker 1 I wish I hadn't been in this universe. This is the worst possible universe for physicists.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Great big hole in my blinking trousers as well. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 13 Was that the sound effect? There we go. That's a.

Speaker 1 You've given away far too many truths about yourself there with the...

Speaker 1 Quite a small pop. I see you deliberately made sure it was a bigger pop this time.
Freud's hands on your shoulders at that point.

Speaker 1 Which, of course, brings us straight away to pandas there.

Speaker 4 Good, great segue.

Speaker 13 Obviously, it brings us

Speaker 1 the panda pop, the new panda pop that you've created.

Speaker 1 So while some scientists, especially panda specialists, are always trying to encourage their case studies to have sex for research, some have gone to great lengths to prevent them from having sex.

Speaker 11 Yeah, poor frogs. If they're not being slowly heated in a pan of water to prove something that actually isn't true.

Speaker 1 It isn't true, is it? If you keep the lid on, it sounds like someone was cheating. But if you take the lid off, apparently a frog will eventually go, this is too hot, and leave.

Speaker 6 If there are any young people watching who wants to be a scientist then try that experiment do not try that experiment at home zoologist lucy cook told us about an interesting experiment involving frogs and pants frogs and pants i don't remember that one yeah frogs well i'll find out now won't i lucy frogs and underpants question mark yeah well trying to trying to solve some of the great mysteries uh i mean a lot of the really big mysteries have have been um

Speaker 10 have been resolved now um and one of those was the mystery of fertilization so so a lot of a lot animals

Speaker 10 just

Speaker 10 burst into life spontaneously.

Speaker 10 Then, once they got microscopes and properly started slicing animals up and looking inside, they realized that there were these things called eggs, and it looked like the males produced something as well.

Speaker 10 But there was a big sort of debate over whether it was eggs or whether it was sperm that developed into the adult. Nobody really thought that it was the two things coming together.

Speaker 10 And the man that proved that it wasn't either or, but it was a bit of both, was a fantastically creative mind called Lasz Ros Balanzani, who sounds like a James Bond bad guy.

Speaker 10 He was obsessed with frog sex, and he'd watch frogs, and

Speaker 10 what is going on?

Speaker 10 And he sliced open females, and without them being gripped, because for those that don't know frog sex, the male hangs on very hard to the female in a sort of piggyback type style.

Speaker 10 But the male sperm is sort of invisible in the water.

Speaker 10 So it was not really clear what the male was doing, but he sort of thought the male must be doing something because when he sliced females open and tried to incubate the eggs, they turned into a mushy mess.

Speaker 10 But when the male did his funny piggyback ride,

Speaker 10 the eggs turned into tadpoles. So the logical thing to do was to craft bespoke underpants

Speaker 10 for the male frogs as a sort of all-body prophylactic that would catch whatever it was that the males were emitting fantastically. He tried various different materials.

Speaker 10 They tried pig's bladder, I think, and it turned out

Speaker 10 it was very nice and snug. It was good, stretchy, fitted well, like a sort of a spanks type arrangement.

Speaker 10 Nothing getting out, but unfortunately, it got all sort of mushy in the water.

Speaker 10 And then he settled on wax taffeta, which was much better because it didn't get destroyed by the water. But the frogs would jump jump out of

Speaker 10 the underpants, which was very frustrating. So in the end he put braces on them.

Speaker 1 And finally, why did the chicken cross the road?

Speaker 8 Gone, gone.

Speaker 1 To get away from the voracious rooster by the sound of things. Well, that's actually...
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 I've done a joke style very much is what you've always asked for because you say the problem with jokes is they go into a world of fantasy and lose the factual evidence which makes the world so wonderful.

Speaker 11 Your joke is, why did the chicken cross the road to get away from the voracious rooster?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's not funny.

Speaker 14 It's just true.

Speaker 1 There's a voracious rooster. Well, look, if you listen to Tim Burkhead, here he is again talking through which birds are not as bird-brained as we used to think.

Speaker 1 In fact, bird-brained is just a silly thing to say.

Speaker 17 The Guillemot that I've studied for 45 years used to be called the foolish guillemot.

Speaker 17 And that's because when they're faced with a predator, be it a raven or a gull or a human being, they sit tight on their egg or chick because that's their strategy that works for ravens and gulls, but it doesn't work for humans.

Speaker 17 But for humans, it was easy because you could just go and pick them up and either kill the bird or take the egg. But they're anything but stupid.

Speaker 17 In fact, there's probably no bird that's really stupid.

Speaker 11 Oh, chickens are stupid.

Speaker 17 No, chickens are in no.

Speaker 4 Let me give you an example.

Speaker 1 If they were so stupid,

Speaker 17 let me give you an example of how smart chickens are. We did some experiments and we were interested in the mating behavior, of course.

Speaker 17 And I discovered that if you very gently held a hen in your fingers and lay on the ground and pointed the hen's bottom towards the cockerel, he would go, whoa, fantastic, and jump on her and mate with her.

Speaker 17 And then we fitted the female with a kind of chastity belt that we could collect the sperm, which is the kind of stuff that biologists do. And

Speaker 17 we wanted to know how many sperm a cockerel could transfer to a female.

Speaker 17 And so what we did was we put the female behind our back, and and the cock would wander around, we'd put her out again, and you'd come and mate, and we collect the sperm and count them.

Speaker 17 And then, after a bit, we swapped the hen. So, it was a different hen.

Speaker 17 And he suddenly just started transferring many, many more sperm. And we did it again and again.
And then we noticed what he did was every time before he mated, he had a quick look at her face.

Speaker 17 And they go, Oh, it's you, love.

Speaker 17 I'm not going to bother.

Speaker 17 If he gave him a new one, he goes, Woohoo!

Speaker 17 And we did it time and time again. They are super smart.

Speaker 14 Playboy chicken.

Speaker 19 I'm just radically rethinking what I think of as smart behaviour now

Speaker 19 in relation to the pub on a Friday night.

Speaker 1 Only two episodes in, and already we've covered love and murder. So after love and murder, where can we go?

Speaker 11 Gardening.

Speaker 1 Yeah, of course. Don't look under the rockery.

Speaker 1 All the episodes we took clips from are available on BBC Sounds and you can find all the details of those in the programme description for this show.

Speaker 16 In the Infinite Monkey Cage.

Speaker 1 Till now, nice again.

Speaker 12 On this cultural life from BBC Radio 4, leading artists and performers reveal their creative inspirations. I saw something that was so beyond what I was being taught at school.

Speaker 12 Discuss their best-known work.

Speaker 21 I do get messages all the time saying this is our life. The handmaid's tale is already here.

Speaker 12 And reflect on their own cultural lives.

Speaker 11 Rock stars need to be simply drawn.

Speaker 12 They can't be too complex. Join me, John Wilson, and my guests including Nick Cave, Stephen Frye, Margaret Atwood, Florence Pugh, Paul McCartney, and Whoopi Goldberg.

Speaker 23 I always knew I was going to be a character actor. I'd never thought I was going to be a famous movie person.

Speaker 12 This cultural life. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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