#2361 - Graham Linehan

Speaker 0 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

Speaker 1 The Joe Rogan experience.

Speaker 2 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So you tell me about the scar you got on your forehead recently. Yeah,

Speaker 1 I got into a bar fight with some, some guys were insulting a woman.

Speaker 2 Yeah, to take care of business.

Speaker 1 Take care of a bit of business. No, I fell off a scooter.

Speaker 1 I fell off a scooter.

Speaker 1 I was riding around Scottsdale uh feeling great and free because i'd never ridden a scooter before because i always thought that we call them scooter nonces in in the uk and and because there was no one around to see me i just thought oh this is great i could do this all the time but i just immediately fell flat on my face by did you hit something or did no i saw i saw what looked like a ramp

Speaker 1 but it was a single step down so i went flying through the air and i remember when i landed there was a weird moment when i landed where I thought, oh, that wasn't so bad.

Speaker 1 I didn't screw myself up too badly. But then there was a second crunch.
And I remember thinking, oh, I'm dead.

Speaker 2 What was the second crunch?

Speaker 1 I don't know. Somehow I fell and I went.

Speaker 1 So you double fell. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I kind of like it because it makes me, it makes me look how I feel internally.

Speaker 2 You know. Busted up and changed.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been a long time.

Speaker 2 So did it break your nose?

Speaker 1 No, oh, it did break my nose. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, but you know, but you know, it's one of those things.
Again, as I say, I quite like it.

Speaker 2 I think it gives me some character. It doesn't mess you up.
Yeah. You're fine.
Yeah. You know, it's just a thing.

Speaker 1 And it might stick with the story about the bar.

Speaker 2 I think you already gave up the goods. The problem with a story like that is I'm always like, is that better to get the fuck beaten out of you?

Speaker 1 Like, by guys?

Speaker 2 Like, it's better to fall down.

Speaker 1 It's different if you're a fighter. I would imagine you wouldn't be too happy about it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'd be very upset that I got my ass kicked.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Although that's happened many times.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 The broken nose is a problem. Did you get your septum fixed and make sure that it's not all clogged up?

Speaker 1 I didn't. I didn't.
Didn't.

Speaker 1 I know, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 That is one that I tell fighters whenever they retire, I'm like, please get your nose fixed. It'll change the quality of your life so much.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Because if you can't breathe out of your nose, you're missing out on a large percentage of cardio. Right.
And not just cardio, like for athletics, but just everyday life.

Speaker 2 Like, you're not breathing out of your nose. You're not getting enough oxygen.
Sure. You're probably oxygen depleted.
And then you become one of them mouth open dudes.

Speaker 1 You did a whole interview with a guy

Speaker 1 who does that, doesn't he?

Speaker 1 He kind of teaches himself to only. James Nestor.
Yes.

Speaker 2 He's got a great book called Breathe. For anybody who's fascinated by breathing techniques and how much it can help you,

Speaker 2 you can do a lot with breathing. It's just a thing that no one does because it's like, oh, I'll look into that and then you put it off and it never happens.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. And I've got to be careful because that's how old age gets you.
It doesn't get you in one go.

Speaker 1 you don't suddenly become this bent old man it it it picks away at you things like falling off scooters and and you know what i mean not getting it fixed things like that are what pick away at you yeah yeah you gotta be you gotta be ahead of it yeah you gotta be vigilant yeah yeah stay off the heroin too i hear that's bad for you obviously get old you don't see a whole lot of old heroin addicts no there was a there's a punk poet in the uk named uh john cooper clark who is a bit of a genius and uh he was taking it recreationally for years and he only gave it up because he said so many people were worried about me I just couldn't I couldn't deal with it they were just worried about me but he was one of these guys I guess like Burroughs William Burroughs that he was able to just you know implement implement it in his life but well I worked with well I worked out with a guy who was a longshoreman and he had this guy that he worked with that would shoot heroin at lunch every day wow and he was fine he worked fine on the job he was totally functional he would take his hour lunch break.

Speaker 2 He would go sit in his truck. He'd get a bag from some guy, and then he'd sit in his truck and shoot up.
Wow. Yeah, like real heroin, like shooting heroin.

Speaker 1 What was his job?

Speaker 2 He was a longshoreman. Oh, right.
So he worked on the docks.

Speaker 1 Holy cow, you'd think you'd have to have your wits about you.

Speaker 2 Well, some of those longshores, they did different jobs. Like my buddy was a fish filleter for a long time.

Speaker 2 So what would happen is you would get these huge trucks filled with fish, and they would just fillet fish all day long. And he was a boxing trainer.

Speaker 1 And so he would rub like Vaseline on your face before you sparred you'd just smell fish because he was just he just smelled like fish all the time you couldn't get it off of him yeah yeah it was just a part of his odor yeah forever right right he cut like thousands of fish a day probably that's like the old dye pits i read in toronto in uh the job that you didn't want was to work in the dye pits because guys what they'd have to do is they'd have to get into these like human-sized pits filled with dye and wrestle the dye into material.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure which material it was.

Speaker 2 Jesus Christ. Yeah.
And your whole body would be covered in dye.

Speaker 1 You would look like the blue man group, you know, except from the neck down, you know? And you would always smell of it.

Speaker 1 And when and when you took a shower, I read this in a brilliant book called The Skin of a Lion by Michael Andache. So it never comes on? No, it does.

Speaker 1 What they do is they come in a shower and then in one piece, the whole paint just falls on the ground like a skin. But they never got rid of the smell, you know?

Speaker 2 And probably the inside of your bathroom looks like shit forever it's like dripping no that all happens at work that all happens at work oh they do it at work

Speaker 1 yeah this is in the old days you know way way hard must that be for you i know yeah your skin is an organ yeah so you're you're you're making your or your organ doused in a chemical all day long yeah yeah yeah yeah well these are the jobs we used to have you know like what's that thing they say hard times make soft hard people yeah hard people make soft times and we're certainly in the soft times now well yeah Yeah, we're in soft times, make hard people.

Speaker 1 Oh, there we go. Our problem.

Speaker 2 Make hard times, rather. Soft people make hard times.
So this is these folks working in it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but this would be the new version. I think in the old days, in Toronto anyway, they used to get into the pits.

Speaker 1 You know? So, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man, there's jobs out there that fucking suck.

Speaker 2 I was watching this video today where this young lady was complaining about her job and that it just consumes her entire life and she doesn't want to do it anymore.

Speaker 2 And then like people were complaining in the comments that she's lazy. I'm like, no, like, she hates her job.
It's entirely reasonable.

Speaker 2 It's a little kind of crazy that everybody wants to declare to the whole world what their personal issues are about their op.

Speaker 2 I mean, social media has made it very weird that all these people just get attention for something that you essentially used to just talk about with friends.

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. And that's part of the problem, isn't it? I mean, every time we make these statements, we make it to a public.
So everything becomes political. Yes.

Speaker 1 You know, and suddenly everyone's, you know, moaning at you because you say you hate your job. It's such a weird,

Speaker 2 such a weird time.

Speaker 1 And this is one of my things, this is one of the things I'm obsessed about. By the way, we better tell people who I know.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Graham, you have an interest.

Speaker 2 Well, I found out about you from our talent coordinator at the Mothership, who's my good friend Adam Egett, who loves you to death. And he loves your work.
He loves the shows that you've created.

Speaker 2 He's a huge, huge fan. So this was

Speaker 2 all because of Adam. This all came about because of Adam.
Sure. And then I heard the story.
I was like, oh my God, they did that guy dirty. They did him so dirty.
And it was one of an example.

Speaker 2 Why don't you tell the story of how it went down so everybody could kind of get it from your words, which I'm sure would be better than me. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace.

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Speaker 1 Okay, fucking it up.

Speaker 1 I'm not really good. I've never been good.
I spent the last,

Speaker 1 you know, most of my life. I'm 57 now, and I spent most of my life forming a sort of uh uh a sort of what's the word um

Speaker 1 you know what's that word self-deprecating humorous personality so i would come out and i would make fun of myself i can't do that anymore because my situation is so bizarre that anything i say that's self-deprecating will just get reported as truth and all sorts of things you can't make jokes in my situation you know it's so weird so let's explain your situation how it started well well i was a comedy writer um i started writing journalism in Ireland when I was very young, about 19 years old.

Speaker 1 And I was hanging around with some funny people. We were writing sketches and stuff like that.
So I went over to UK and I got in.

Speaker 1 I was just very...

Speaker 1 We sent our sketches to producers and we just, we worked very hard to get on TV. That succeeded.
And then I kept having early success.

Speaker 1 I had a sitcom called Father Ted, which was about some Irish priests who were so bad that they'd been banished to a tiny island in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 1 That was a huge success, probably my biggest success.

Speaker 1 Then I went on to a sitcom,

Speaker 1 IT Crowd, Black Books was a big one over here.

Speaker 1 All of them I co-wrote or wrote on my own.

Speaker 2 And people have to understand that for people that are a fan of English comedy, like your shows were legendary. These are amazing shows.

Speaker 1 Thank you. That's really kind of you to say.
Yeah, they're really big. They're big over there.
You know, I mean,

Speaker 1 some of them travel over here. Black Books did very well over here.
And IT Crowd, I think, think, is probably the second most known one.

Speaker 2 I think we're suffering a bit from content fatigue.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 There's almost too much to choose from.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, there's no real reason to...
I mean, you know, the only reason I would say to watch them is, you know, some of them are... Some of them

Speaker 1 really hit the target, you know? Yeah, some of them are great. Watch them because they're great.

Speaker 2 But I'm just saying that the problem with anybody finding out about a new show today, they're like, oh, geez, another one I have to pay attention to?

Speaker 1 How? Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's got to burst soon.
I think we're, I mean, AI means the whole, who knows what the landscape will be like next year, you know? It's weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's really weird.

Speaker 2 It's really weird. I watched an amazing video that someone put out today of a small film that they made just with prompts.
And it was some

Speaker 2 cyberpunk thing. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Did you see that? I know. It's insane.

Speaker 2 It is the next level.

Speaker 1 It's so good. It's like, I'd watch that movie.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. I mean, and they just made it in a few moments with prompts.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, it's over. Yeah, except, I mean,

Speaker 1 the interesting thing, though, is I think I better get back to my story because I think.

Speaker 2 Oh, we'll get to it. Don't worry.
That's how we do things.

Speaker 1 But the interesting thing is that

Speaker 1 I think personally there might be a revolution in those kind of smaller films that just need a few people.

Speaker 1 You know, what's a good example? Steven Soderbergh's early movies, Tarantino with Reservoir Dogs. Right.
You might find people actually returning to human beings. Because I don't know.

Speaker 1 I mean, maybe I'm sure it will change, but at the moment, there's a real uncanny valley feeling from all of these AI videos.

Speaker 2 Well, this one has an uncanny valley for sure. See if you can find it, Jamie.
Cyberpunk. Somebody released it on X.
It is, I forget which engine they used.

Speaker 2 There's a battle with all these engines.

Speaker 1 See who's got the best. I'm waiting it out, you know.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's just like,

Speaker 1 just tell me what tools I can use to tell stories, and then I'll do them.

Speaker 2 Well, people are, this is it.

Speaker 1 Go full screen on this.

Speaker 2 Give me some volume. This is so wild.
Like that, that woman looks incredibly lifelike, but a little weird right there with the hair.

Speaker 1 If you play the music, it's going to get us flagged.

Speaker 2 Okay, we don't need to play the music. The music is not that good anyway.

Speaker 1 It doesn't mean anything. And there's things with the lighting and stuff that don't really make sense.
But that's all. I'm being stupid.
I'm being picky.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, you're not being picky. It's like we're being accurate.
Like if you were an expert, and you were assessing whether or not this was real, I'd say, right there, definitely not real.

Speaker 2 This is not real. This is artificially generated.
But that could also be a style, right? Like, if you think about Robert Rodriguez when he did Sin City, there's a lot of that that didn't look real.

Speaker 2 You know, like you could get weird with filming just to make the experience, you know, more bizarre because you're in this crazy sci-fi thing.

Speaker 2 You could kind of make it look a little fake and it would be dope.

Speaker 1 I think also when you think of what AI is going to do to voice lines, like if you look at a game like Grand Theft Auto, now you're going to be able to have generative dialogue from the characters, you know?

Speaker 1 It's insane.

Speaker 2 Well, you're also going to have porn where you have any woman that you want that you desire in your life.

Speaker 2 Like, you could take photos of someone that you know and turn them into someone who's like so attracted to you and just can't wait to have sex with you. Like, POV porn from your neighbor.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
You know what I'm saying? I know. And it's like, it's like we're there.

Speaker 1 We're getting there. We're about to head into that.
I mean, you've read Jonathan Haight's

Speaker 1 book about, I can't remember which one it was. Oh, cuddling and coddling, yeah.
Like 2007 was when

Speaker 1 depression in teenage girls went.

Speaker 2 Yep, self-harm, depression, suicidal ideology, actual suicide went up. All of it went up in this comparison culture.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but also the iPhone. Yes.
It was the iPhone that.

Speaker 2 100%. That's what the comparison culture comes from.
I mean, that's the real comparison culture because they're comparing themselves to the Kardashians and

Speaker 2 people with massive amounts of plastic surgery and filters.

Speaker 1 And now I saw a a guy yesterday who said we're about to enter a 2007 moment. In other words, the invention of the iPhone.
We're about to have another big change.

Speaker 1 And we haven't even spoken about the last one. I mean, that's part of my thing.

Speaker 1 Let me

Speaker 1 go back at the story. But basically, I was like

Speaker 1 a very successful comedy writer, probably about as successful as a non-on-screen comedy writer can get in the UK. I won something like six BAFTAs, I think, in the end, five or six BAFTAs.

Speaker 1 I'm not being stupid. I just genuinely can't remember.
And one of them they didn't give me the plaque for. I must tell you that at some point.

Speaker 1 But I won them, got a standing ovation at the Comedy Awards. And then the moment I started talking about women's rights,

Speaker 1 they took everything, absolutely everything away from me.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. So that's your

Speaker 2 version of it. Yes.

Speaker 2 Women's rights. Yes.
And this is a version, this is why it gets real weird.

Speaker 2 You know, because

Speaker 2 as soon as you say

Speaker 2 there are some men that are going to use this, as soon as you say there are some men who we've known forever have been sexual deviants and perverts and psychotic creeps,

Speaker 2 and you're giving them an out,

Speaker 2 instantaneously, you're letting them wear dresses and now they can't be touched. That is a crazy thing to do.
Yeah. And that doesn't deny the existence of trans people or in any way be transphobic.

Speaker 2 It's not saying that a person can't choose to be whoever the fuck they essentially feel they are, their true self. Well, I don't know how you feel.

Speaker 2 I don't want to restrict you, but as soon as you start allowing men in dresses to get into women's spaces and you frame it that way, you say this is about women's rights, then it's chaos.

Speaker 2 Then there's no rational conversation when it should be totally rational.

Speaker 2 With those factors, knowing that some men are creeps, knowing that women are more vulnerable, and you're going to allow these potential creeps to have carte blanche and just go into the women's spaces.

Speaker 2 that you, the screaming at me and the calling me a Nazi makes me think I'm over the target.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, I think I could be wrong here. This is a theory.

Speaker 1 You obviously know more about it than me, but like, I think that when they tried to get you for COVID, I actually think that that was sort of left over from you interviewing Megan Murphy and Abigail Schreier.

Speaker 1 I think they really hated that you were giving them a platform. Because when you think of it, no one else did.
No one else did.

Speaker 1 If you look back at Megan Murphy and Abigail Schreier's appearances, and Abigail Schreier wrote the most important book about transitioning,

Speaker 1 the transitioning of young women, irreversible damage. And she's had a terrible time as well.

Speaker 2 She has had a terrible time. Yeah.
And unfairly, because it's a real issue. But this is the thing about a real issue.
When real issues come up,

Speaker 2 when there's a real ideological debate going on, like, hey, what is actually really going on? That's when things get the most hostile.

Speaker 2 Because when you can't really defend your position logically, then you start using pejoratives and turning everyone into Nazis and everyone into fascists.

Speaker 2 And you start really fucking the argument up in a way that, like, if you're a normal person and I'm talking to you, well, I'm going to choose to not talk to you anymore because you're not rational.

Speaker 2 I don't like talking to Mike. He goes crazy and calls me a Nazi every time we disagree with something.
That is logically something that you should be debating.

Speaker 2 Whether or not children have the ability to make these decisions at an early age and whether or not there's some kind of social social contagion going on. That's what Abigail brought up.

Speaker 1 And I think that's super accurate. Yeah, and I mean, like, you know, this, I don't want to go too strong too early, but

Speaker 1 let me take an example, right? The word trans people,

Speaker 1 I see people using it all the time as if it has...

Speaker 1 as if it is a stable category. And it's not.
It's not a stable category at all.

Speaker 1 You know, when most people hear the word trans people, they think transsexuals.

Speaker 1 But the number, according to, I think, a 2016 study, the number of men who identify as trans and aren't having any surgery at all is something like 90%,

Speaker 1 right? So you have a whole, whole group of people out there who are transvestites, okay? To give them the actual word that

Speaker 1 refers to their condition.

Speaker 2 Which they used to forever. Yes.
Until it became a pejorative.

Speaker 1 Well, then it just disappeared.

Speaker 1 All the transvestites just disappeared. I think it's a friend now.

Speaker 2 I don't think they like it.

Speaker 1 They don't like it because they know that if you use that term, it reveals the truth.

Speaker 1 And the truth is that 90% of these men are putting on a dress and expecting to be given every single right that women have. And it's an absolute lie.

Speaker 1 It's a delusion. It's a mass delusion.
It's a cult.

Speaker 1 It's like, and I genuinely don't think it would have existed without the internet. You know, the internet superpowered it and they gave rise to things like,

Speaker 1 you see it online, the same repeated phrases over and over again. Yes.
Trans women are women.

Speaker 1 How are you going to keep men out? That's one thing they say about single-sex spaces. How are you going to keep men out?

Speaker 1 Well, you know, we were always able to in the past because most men were decent and weren't trying to get into women's spaces. But suddenly now it's a problem.

Speaker 1 you know right and so basically what we've done is we've created this false kind of civil rights movement it's not a civil rights movement it's a male push push to undo every single thing that suffragettes won over 100 years ago.

Speaker 1 You know? Have you ever heard of the urinary leash? Do you know this phrase? No. The urinary leash

Speaker 1 was what was called when the suffragettes, before the suffragettes won the right to vote and single-sex spaces and so on,

Speaker 1 the women of a household were not able to go too far from their house because there were no public toilets. And all the public toilets, there were public toilets, but they were mixed.

Speaker 1 So men would be in them, and they couldn't go into the toilets with the men. So

Speaker 1 you had a urinary leash. You had a leash that kept you close to your home.
Jesus Christ. And that was one of the ways that men were able to exercise such power over women at that time.
Wow.

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Speaker 2 And so now urinary leash.

Speaker 1 That's what they called it, yeah. And now we have some

Speaker 1 we have members of this so-called civil rights group who are basically just trying to bring back the urinary leash, you know?

Speaker 1 So it's not safe for women to go into a space because they genuinely don't know if they'll share the space with a man.

Speaker 1 So, you know, it's

Speaker 1 anyway, one of the problems with this fight is there's so many aspects to it that it's really, I've been fighting it for eight years.

Speaker 2 Did you,

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 were you stunned by the reality? Let's bring it back to the original thing that you did, your original offense to the cult. Yes.
Where they came for you.

Speaker 1 My original offense was, I think, sharing a piece by a feminist named Heather Brunskill-Evans that said exactly what you said just at the beginning, you know, a few minutes ago, where you said, yeah, people have

Speaker 1 things going on in their head. They need to be respected.
they need to be helped and then someone wrote back immediately

Speaker 1 i was actually getting uh surgery for cancer at the time and uh someone wrote back and said i wish the cancer had won right jesus and this was like sharing a very very mild piece that just basically said women deserve rights okay so that reaction i thought holy cow and and and And then, but the strangest thing was all my friends and colleagues,

Speaker 1 they just completely ignored what was happening to me.

Speaker 1 Not a single person stood up to say, hey,

Speaker 1 I know Graham Linhan, he's not a bigot. And I'd made lots of these people famous, you know.
Not a single person stood up for me. And the next thing that happened was that

Speaker 1 a sex offender, and we found this out later, but a sex offender and kind of serial litigant in the UK,

Speaker 1 he reported me to the police, sued me on the same weekend, and

Speaker 1 the police

Speaker 1 came to my home, or no, they phoned me that time.

Speaker 1 And since then, I've been basically, the police just visit every so often on the orders of these, and this guy is a sexy, he sexually assaulted a 14-year-old boy, you know.

Speaker 1 And basically, the police in the UK are working for these men, you know? So.

Speaker 2 So he can complain anytime he wants and they just visit you?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And there's no repercussions?

Speaker 1 No, not so far. He's been doing it for eight years.

Speaker 1 and and he's had women in prison cells overnight you know i mean it's a it's it's his hobby you know so um this guy was the guy who reported me to police and then the guardian reported that as graeme linehan uh uh is is warned by police for uh harassing a trans woman Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 So now everybody is looking at this and they're thinking, oh, a trans woman, a transsexual, poor transsexual. No, again, just a bloke who's put on a dress and has taken a piss, you know.
So

Speaker 1 that destroyed my name, thanks to The Guardian. And then after that, I couldn't get anyone to speak to me.
Like, you know, I mean,

Speaker 1 Father Ted might be big in the UK, but in Ireland, it's a bit of a national institution, you know.

Speaker 1 It allowed the Irish to laugh at the Catholic Church, which for years had had a sort of oppressive effect over the Irish, so they weren't able to laugh at it.

Speaker 1 And suddenly, Father Ted came out, and it was a great kind of release to be able to to laugh at silly things. We weren't really attacking the church.
We were just making silly jokes.

Speaker 1 Very surreal show, you know.

Speaker 1 But nonetheless,

Speaker 1 it kind of chipped away at the Catholic Church. And the Catholic Church just kind of lost a lot of power in Ireland.
So I thought in Ireland,

Speaker 1 I would be at least

Speaker 1 understood and listened out. People would listen to me.
Listen me out.

Speaker 2 Is that the phrase?

Speaker 1 Yeah, Yeah, hear me out. Hear me out.
And

Speaker 1 no, like there's a show in Ireland called The Late Late Show.

Speaker 1 And like I brought out my biography a few years ago called Tough Crowd, which

Speaker 1 I should plug. And The Late Late Show, which interviews every single person

Speaker 1 who's got the letter O apostrophe in their name, hasn't interviewed me. And all of the Irish media has just pretend I've died.
They just pretend I've died.

Speaker 2 All because of their their guardian artist.

Speaker 1 Not just because of that, because I just wouldn't, I refused to back down. They were saying, you know, I was constantly being told to apologize, and I hadn't done anything.
I would have

Speaker 1 people online would do fake screenshots of me apologizing for sending my pictures of my genitalia to women on a forum. Jesus.
And they spread that.

Speaker 1 And rather than my friends standing up for me, people would approach them on Twitter and say, why are you following Graham Linahan? He's a bigot. And they would just go, oh, sorry.

Speaker 1 And just don't follow me. And so I lost 300,000, 400,000 followers in a few months.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then we went into COVID and Twitter banned me for two years. So then that became Graham Lenahan.

Speaker 2 Was there a specific post or was it just because your reputation?

Speaker 1 It was a combination of things.

Speaker 1 I was causing more trouble for them by,

Speaker 1 I don't know, what did I do? I went onto the website. This is a funny, this connects me with Alex Jones.
Do you know this? No.

Speaker 1 Did Adam not send you this?

Speaker 2 No, no, no.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 So one of the things I did was I went on an app called Her Social, which is a lesbian app.

Speaker 1 And I did it to show that men were joining these apps and they weren't, they would, you know, some of them would put on a bit of lipstick, but most of them were just, they would look like you or me.

Speaker 1 You know? Jesus Christ. Yeah.
And they go onto this app and they say they put down their pronouns as she, her.

Speaker 2 Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 And they call themselves lesbians. And if a lesbian complains about this, they're booted off the site.
Okay?

Speaker 1 So I decided

Speaker 1 I would go on and call myself she, her and go on the site. So I did it.

Speaker 1 And then I had some friends who put me in Photoshop and did me in different

Speaker 1 outfits. And one of them, I looked like my mother in the 60s.
She's wearing kind of Jackie Kennedy pink beret.

Speaker 1 And Alex Jones was interested in the same story. And you might be, I think I sent the link to you, Jamie, but like, oh, yeah, here it is.

Speaker 2 Alex Jones.

Speaker 2 I'm going to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 I'm not usually for transvestites and stuff.

Speaker 1 This one here, this is a...

Speaker 1 Oh, and you see the symbol they've got here. You know what that symbol is right there?

Speaker 1 Yeah. These symbols all mean something.

Speaker 2 What does that symbol mean?

Speaker 1 I don't know. It doesn't mean anything.

Speaker 1 Fucking Alex. Yeah, so I fooled Alex.
But like, like.

Speaker 2 But the thing is, that's not outside of what you could find on there.

Speaker 1 No, absolutely. That's what's crazy.
But I was re-cancelled because of it. Because they only reported about me.
They said Grain Linehan went on a lesbian app. Oh.
Pretending to be a person.

Speaker 2 So then you're a pervert.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, and of course.

Speaker 2 You're a hypocrite.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And none of my arguments are making it to

Speaker 1 the mainstream press because.

Speaker 2 God, I wish I knew about this earlier.

Speaker 1 I wish I'd sent you my money.

Speaker 2 The scandal never made it to the States except for Adam telling me.

Speaker 1 My scandal.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, to like the comedy community in the States.

Speaker 1 You didn't hear about it.

Speaker 2 There's too many of them. And then the thing was, with J.K.
Rowling, that was so big that they went for the queen. They're trying to take down literally the most successful author of human history.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Hasn't she sold more copies than the Bible at this point?

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Is that accurate? Oh, I don't know. Probably.

Speaker 2 I think the Harry Potter books have sold more or are at least similar to the sales of the Bible.

Speaker 1 She just wrote it in her lifetime.

Speaker 2 Bible's been around for 2,000 years. 2,000 years head start.

Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 1 And they went for her.

Speaker 1 They went for her. And there's like seven.
I mean, when you think about it, it's like seven or eight generations of kids have read these books.

Speaker 2 Best-selling series in history. So Harry Potter series alone is exceeding 600 million copies sold worldwide.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's so easy.
And you know, and

Speaker 1 the set and the kids who read her books are the ones trying to counsel her. The kids who read her books aren't taking on board any of the lessons of the books.
It's very strange.

Speaker 2 Well, it's hard to be courageous. It's hard to step outside of the narrative.
And when there's a very forceful narrative that's being pushed, like,

Speaker 2 you know, what Elon likes to call the woke mind virus, like whatever that thing is that has like these very clear rules that you must follow, like people get real scared. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And they get real aggressive when they get real scared. They don't want to get canceled themselves.

Speaker 2 They become some sort of an enforcer for these ideologies.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it gets contagious and it turns into some sort of a weird culture war that's akin to a religious war.

Speaker 1 The other side call it a culture war to try and to try and

Speaker 1 to try and make it only that. Right? You know,

Speaker 1 they talk about it as a culture war to try and

Speaker 1 kind of keep it under in a framework they understand. But it's not a culture war really.
It's like

Speaker 1 it's women's lives.

Speaker 1 You're talking about 51% of the population.

Speaker 1 They fought for these rights 100 years ago and now they're trying to take them away by stealth.

Speaker 1 There's a nurse in the UK at the moment. Her name is Sandy Peggy.
And she had a doctor, six foot two, rugby playing doctor, who had started identifying as a woman, I think in 2022, right?

Speaker 1 Using women's toilets in an NHS hospital every time. She was bothered by this, but she tried not to say anything, okay?

Speaker 1 Until finally she had her period and she went in and he was there and he asked her to leave. She's now going through the whatever week

Speaker 1 tribunal. Wait, he asked her to leave? No, sorry, I put that wrong.
She asked him to leave. Oh, I see.
And he refused. He took it up as a complaint and now she's going through a work tribunal.

Speaker 1 Not him.

Speaker 1 He's He's not in trouble for going into women's toilets. She's in trouble.
And that's the whole of the UK at the moment.

Speaker 2 How did this happen?

Speaker 2 You're an intelligent guy and you've had eight years to think about this. Yeah.
What do you think happened where people lost all

Speaker 2 ability to objectively analyze all the various little things that are at work in this?

Speaker 1 It's partly a problem with the internet, I think. I think it's first of all, the internet spread it.
One of the things that happened was

Speaker 1 there was a real supercharged moment for trans ideology when Tumblr banned porn. Because all the trans-identified kids who were all over Tumblr and porn was a big thing on Tumblr.

Speaker 1 I never remember Tumblr. Yeah, yeah, it was a big kind of visual sight.

Speaker 2 I never used it. Did you ever use Tumblr? Didn't use it, but I know what he's talking about.
Yeah, it was big for generations. Was it a social media thing?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was big amongst teenage girls, of course.

Speaker 1 So you've already got

Speaker 1 a worry there, you know.

Speaker 1 Oh, now I remember it. Yeah.
Okay. And they all came over to Twitter, and that's the moment when Twitter became extremely toxic in terms of talking about this issue.

Speaker 1 And so there was a kind of a double thing going on. Like, I remember when I was talking to people I knew about the issue, they simply couldn't talk about it.
It was the strangest thing.

Speaker 1 They get scared. I know, but even in personal one-on-one, they can't talk about it.

Speaker 2 Well, it's religion, but it's showing itself in a new form. Yes.
It's It's religion for secular people.

Speaker 1 It's a religion.

Speaker 2 It's a religion that's terrifying because the consequences of not obeying are you get ostracized and you get attacked and you get de-platformed and de-banked and de this and de-that and labeled a bigot.

Speaker 1 I had a West End musical ready to go based on Father Ted.

Speaker 1 It was like,

Speaker 1 you know, you can't really ever guarantee a hit in terms of musicals, but it was the closest thing to a guaranteed hit you could get. It was my pension.
I'd worked on it for about three or four years.

Speaker 1 They canceled it. We had it up on the feet.
We had it up on its feet. We had songs written.

Speaker 1 We'd even performed it in front of audiences a couple of times just to generate excitement and interest. It was ready to go.

Speaker 2 So, how did so many people go along with it? Where you can't,

Speaker 2 how is it that you can make this reasonable argument on this podcast about why you think this is the case and what you think is is going on, and this is why you stood up against it.

Speaker 2 And why can't there be some sort of a

Speaker 2 logical debate about this? Like, how is this one issue so insanely

Speaker 2 third rail where you can't even touch it? Like, people don't even try to touch it.

Speaker 1 There's a few reasons for that.

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Speaker 1 One of the main reasons is that the language of this movement is so deliberately obscure. Like they did a poll recently.

Speaker 1 They found out that when people were talking about trans women in women's sports, a lot of people, I think the majority of people, I'm not sure what the percentages were, but the majority of people thought they were talking about trans-identified females in women's sports.

Speaker 1 Oh boy. Yeah.
And in fact, even now, when you say trans women, some people are thinking trans men.

Speaker 1 You know, and I have to tell, I have to sometimes tell people the way to do it is think trans means opposite. So if it's trans man, it's a woman.
If it's a trans woman, it's a man.

Speaker 1 That's all it means. It just means opposite.
And so this language, which is constantly being used, if you see a press report about a

Speaker 1 you know, this happens all the time.

Speaker 1 you see a press report that says something like I saw a great one that said something like woman takes cocaine and then kills Alsatian or something like this and it's only that we know it's only that me and the feminists who are fighting this know that it's a man that tell me it's a man every other every other person reading that newspaper thinks they're talking about a woman it happens all the time it's happened here yeah it's happened here when a trans person has done something they call it a she but it's a man that did it yeah yeah it's it's very strange

Speaker 1 And it's the press. It's the press are I mean really that when you say why isn't it possible to be talked about? It's because the press are helping confuse people.

Speaker 1 You know, the press are actually aiding. Like if you get a Peter Floyd and you report him to be a man, oh, sorry, a woman when he's actually a man, then

Speaker 1 it's even harder. to step back and go, we shouldn't have done that because

Speaker 1 you've actually already committed a terrible sin against journalism. Right.

Speaker 2 you know you're not telling the truth you're not being accurate yeah yeah yeah and it's just so strange that this is so potent that it allows people to give up those

Speaker 1 give up their journalistic integrity yeah it's it's extraordinary but some of them don't even have any for for the first in the first place a lot of like one of the things that happened when i was uh started talking about this is i started noticing like there was a magazine in england called total film and that was calling me a bigot and all these different and my old magazines that i worked for were calling me a bigot And then you see photographs of the guys, and it's always, you know, they've always got black fingernail polish and they think they're a new kind of human, you know?

Speaker 1 It's like you're not a new type of human being if you were.

Speaker 2 The first thing about the internet is allowed them to all group up. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Whereas before the internet, it's a very small percentage of people that have autogonophilia or that, you know, fall into those categories. And we've always kicked those people out of women's rooms.

Speaker 2 And this is one of the really important things when you're talking about like trans bigotry.

Speaker 2 It's only about men. It's not about trans men.

Speaker 2 No one cares.

Speaker 1 Well, here's the thing, right?

Speaker 2 Trans men going into the men's room.

Speaker 1 First of all, first of all, right, that's one of the earliest kind of

Speaker 1 smears against the feminists fighting this, who are all in the UK, by the way, left-wing women, classic left-wing

Speaker 1 environmentalists. No, they're kooks.

Speaker 2 A bunch of childless cat ladies, as J.D. Vance calls them.

Speaker 1 A bunch of kooks. No, these are the good guys.
These are the good guys.

Speaker 1 And they've been, and you know, but they've been smeared as right-wing bigots, you know, even though they spent all their life fighting things like Section 30.

Speaker 2 Oh, I see what you're saying. So the people that were, yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, there's different types of feminism, and I don't think that's sometimes appreciated in conservative society.

Speaker 2 So this Megan Murphy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 Good friend of mine. She's a legit feminist.
Yeah. Like, legit.
Yeah. I'm saying, hey, this is an infringement on women's spaces.

Speaker 2 And immediately, everything, same thing as you, called a bigot, but she's in a different space because she's on the internet.

Speaker 2 But she got kicked off of Twitter.

Speaker 1 She got kicked off of Twitter. She was stronger than me.
Five years. Crazy.

Speaker 1 And being kicked off of Twitter allowed people to further lie about me online until my reputation was completely destroyed.

Speaker 1 So I went in for a meeting with the people who produced the Father Ted musical, who also produced Father Ted back in the day. And I walked in and

Speaker 1 everybody, I saw someone I worked with for years, a runner who had grown up with me

Speaker 1 as I'd worked with them on different productions, just looking at me like Elliot Gould. Who was it? Elliot Gould, no, what was the guy's name? At the end of Invasion the Body Snatchers, you know.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And I thought, what the hell was that look? And then I went into the office and they offered me £200,000 to walk away from the musical. Wow.

Speaker 1 And they thought I would take it because I was so desperate because I had lost every bit of work I had. And

Speaker 1 I thought about it. And at one point I said to him, them well as long as I can come in and watch the occasional rehearsal just to see if it's going well, you know? And

Speaker 1 they said, no, we want a clean break. Wow.

Speaker 1 And I had brought them the idea. I had more or less written the whole thing

Speaker 1 and they just thought they could do that to me. So I thought, no, I'm not taking part in any further efforts to blacken my own name.
So I said, no, I'm not doing it.

Speaker 1 And they won't make the musical now.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 I know the internet was a part of this, but how did it get so kooky?

Speaker 2 How did it get so kooky where people are willing to put women in these vulnerable positions because they don't want to offend this entirely tiny, very,

Speaker 2 very vocal part of the world?

Speaker 1 Because, as you say, because these, this tiny, very vocal, very and very, and you know, there's a, I want to make this clear. There are a lot of trans-identified people who are completely sane.

Speaker 1 Of course. Who know what sex they are.
Of course. Who are not trying to impose themselves in places where they're not wanted or where they would disturb or frighten women.

Speaker 1 They're great, and I'm friends with a lot of them.

Speaker 2 And they've existed forever.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, when they say they've but there has always been people like that in the world. Sure.

Speaker 1 But there's, but, you know, when you come to the current iteration of the word trans people, what does it mean then? Like, you know, when you're talking about just transvestitism.

Speaker 2 Right, right, right, right. That's where it gets squirrely.

Speaker 1 Existed forever.

Speaker 1 They wear each other's furs, you know, in the caves. It's like it's just clothes.

Speaker 2 Right, but there's been historical tales forever. There was actually a famous one about from the old west about this guy that was married to this woman.

Speaker 2 And then when the woman died, he was out of town. And the doctor found out that this woman that he was married to was actually a man.
Oh, sure. And then so then he committed suicide.

Speaker 1 Oh, right.

Speaker 2 Because he couldn't let everybody know that he was banging a dude this whole time.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But my point is, there's always been people that identified as a woman, but there also has always been perverts.

Speaker 2 And so to deny the existence of one while pushing the other, it's like, yes, yes, yes, I agree. There have been people that feel like they're in the wrong body and the wrong gender.

Speaker 2 That's always existed. It's a reality of human civilization.

Speaker 1 Also, what's that?

Speaker 2 That's a guy in a dress with a heart on. Like, there's autogynophilia is a real thing.
Men get turned on by dressing up like women.

Speaker 2 Also, there's certain perverts that don't want to wear a dress, but they know if they do wear a dress, now they can get into the women's room.

Speaker 1 They're going to do that too. Of course they are.
If you put the line here, men will come up to that line. Exactly.
If you put it up here, men will come up to that line.

Speaker 2 You can't do it under the guise of compassion because, again, it's only about men. When you talk about trans men, no one is complaining.

Speaker 1 Let me tell you a little. In any way.
Let me tell you a little something about that, right?

Speaker 1 As you point out, they never talk about trans men. And in fact, when you think about it, who are the famous trans men? Very, very few of them.

Speaker 2 Elliot Page.

Speaker 1 Elliot Page.

Speaker 1 few a few other that's the most famous yes right because she was a famous actress and then she became elliot page yeah well like she like actually let me tell you something about elliot page's voice that'll be of interest but um but uh uh what was my point going to be oh yeah trans men out of the whole trans deal get the worst deal out of it Trans women, all a man has to do is wear a dress and he is suddenly a trans woman, right?

Speaker 1 But trans-identified women, they get double mastectomies, hysterectomies in their 20s and 30s, you know?

Speaker 1 Every single young woman on testosterone will go into early menopause.

Speaker 1 Early menopause brings with it a risk of dementia, incontinence, itching, and all sorts of fucking problems you don't want to put up with when you're...

Speaker 1 These young women think they're going to be young men and they're actually turning into old women. And no one has told them this joke.

Speaker 2 Early menopause. I know it makes a lot lot of them infertile for life.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. You know,

Speaker 1 it's one of the things that happens is when you take testosterone, your ovaries confuse to,

Speaker 1 I'm not sure, some other part of your internal organs, and that means it becomes infected. And that means, and that's why you see so many trans men having to have hysterectomies, you know?

Speaker 1 If a woman has her breasts removed, and then goes on to have a child later on in life, if they're lucky enough not to have been sterilized by the drugs if they have a child later on in life when the child cries the tissue in their breasts will ache because there's always tissue left behind after those operations and it will ache because it wants to feed the baby but they can't

Speaker 1 you know no one tells these kids that you know the younger men who are i've i met a detransitioner his name is richie tulip he told me that there are oh actually no let me stick to trans men for a moment you know the only time that trans men get famous in the same way that trans women do is if they get pregnant right

Speaker 1 and then it's like they're on the cover of time magazine or something yeah because oh my god a bearded pregnant lady you know right and it's it's it's just if we've always known it we've seen fairgrounds with bearded ladies it's just testosterone it's just an excess of testosterone there's nothing magical or or or or great about in fact it's very dangerous for women on testosterone to uh have get pregnant because they could pass on.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is how horrible it is. There was a study in the UK published by a gender sociologist, I think she is, who works for Sheffield University.

Speaker 1 And the study said, this is, what's her name? Sally Hines. And the study said that even if there's a risk of deformity to a baby,

Speaker 1 a trans-identified woman should continue taking testosterone because there was too much of an emphasis on babies born with normative bodies. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 I mean so preventative medication is a denial.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. It's just insane.

Speaker 2 Preventative medication would be a denial because

Speaker 2 you're denying the existence of people with disabilities as if they're not real.

Speaker 2 They're not equal.

Speaker 1 It's something like that.

Speaker 2 That is so crazy.

Speaker 1 Basically, they can, you know, that's another thing with this debate. And there's other, there's, well, anyway, sorry, I want to stick to trans men.

Speaker 2 But this language is so Orwellian.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But if you look, look up.
How crazy.

Speaker 2 But what a crazy way to justify potentially harming a child.

Speaker 2 So we're putting too much emphasis on children that aren't harmed.

Speaker 1 Her self-identity is more important. That is so nuts.
Yeah. And I've been trying to tell people that this has been going on for years.
That's the second most shocking story I know in this fight.

Speaker 1 Will I just tell you this first one? Sure. Okay, you know WPATH?

Speaker 2 WPATH, what is that?

Speaker 1 WPATH is meant to be the world leader for trans healthcare. It is where the whole world gets their orders for how to treat trans people.
Okay?

Speaker 1 It is,

Speaker 1 this is going to blow you away, Joe. So

Speaker 1 there's a woman named Mia Hughes, and she published a piece called, she published a study called the WPATH files. It hasn't been reported on anywhere.

Speaker 1 no one is talking about it, it's not a, it's, it, it came and went without without causing barely a ripple. She found out that WPath, which briefly tried to make Unich a gender identity, right?

Speaker 1 She found out that they were linking to a website called the Eunuch Archives.

Speaker 1 And the Eunuch Archives is mainly a repository of about, I don't know, I have it written down, but it's something like 8,000 short stories, something like that.

Speaker 1 And they're just pornography about people cutting their dicks off.

Speaker 1 WPath linked to this site. Not only that, but

Speaker 1 something like 40% of the stories are tagged minor.

Speaker 1 Okay?

Speaker 1 So these are the people who are cutting off young men's dicks and they are sharing erotic pornography about cutting off young men's dicks. And

Speaker 1 Jamie has all the links. This may sound

Speaker 1 that I'm pulling it out of my my ass because it's so hard to believe. That's another problem we have.
Some of these stories are so hard to believe.

Speaker 2 But it's so hard to inform people because you're only going to hear about something like this on a podcast.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. The press won't report on it.
And when you think about it, and BBC, the BBC deliberately

Speaker 1 ignores this. The BBC is outrageous on this issue.

Speaker 2 But look at what they did with Jimmy Saville.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah. But this is like forever.
Forever. But this is almost worse than Jimmy Savile because there's more kids being hurt, you know?

Speaker 1 And the UK is addicted to ignoring scandals and to hurting, you know, to allowing children to be hurt. You know, what's his name? Keir Starmer,

Speaker 1 the UK Prime Minister. When he came in, he said he would end the culture wars.
He hasn't ended the culture wars. He hides from them.

Speaker 1 While ordinary people still have to fight in court, people like me and various women who are fighting this nonsense. He's an absolute coward on this issue.

Speaker 1 But the thing about the WPATH files is WPATH, this place that's sharing paedophilic castration pornography, is is is the

Speaker 1 world leader on trans health care. Okay? They're the ones that are bowed to on everything in this.

Speaker 1 And they're the reason why doctors all over the world are giving these protocols to kids because there's a thing called the chain of trust that Mia Hughes writes about which is an ear, nose and throat specialist has to has to believe that other doctors know what they're doing.

Speaker 1 And they have to believe that the head of any particular discipline knows what they're saying. And what's happening with WPATH is they're issuing all this stuff

Speaker 1 and it's all just crazy nonsense.

Speaker 1 One thing in the WPATH files they found out was there was one letter from, I think, one of the doctors associated with WPATH. And she said, I've only ever refused

Speaker 1 a transition diagnosis once. And that's when the patient was having a, that's because the patient had a psychotic episode in my office.
That's the only reason she didn't say, yeah, you're a man,

Speaker 1 because she was having a psychotic episode.

Speaker 1 They tried to transition a homeless guy. So when you think about it, he has the surgery, and the next day he's back in the streets with a wound that needs to be cleaned.

Speaker 1 They tried to transition a homeless guy. That's the WPATH files.

Speaker 2 Is it their goal to just transition anybody?

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Speaker 1 It's purely a kind of ideological insanity. Like one of the people who is involved in this, I can't, her name always jumps out of my head.

Speaker 1 I can't remember her name, but she suggested that a baby who fiddles with the buttons on their baby grow is trans trans

Speaker 1 because they're they're indicating they don't like this baby grow. They want to wear a male one or whatever, you know.
Oh my god. That woman was involved in the satanic panic scandal.

Speaker 1 So she's moved from one insane

Speaker 1 You know mass delusion to another.

Speaker 2 What was the satanic panic scandal?

Speaker 1 Oh, do you know this this was like

Speaker 1 80s I think in the middle of in kind of midwestern America there was a lot of places that suddenly suddenly started believing in

Speaker 1 cults that were worshiping the devil and having sex with children. And the thing about it was it was before the internet.
So it didn't actually spread that far.

Speaker 1 You know, there were a few towns where it broke out. Do you remember that three kids who were in jail for years for something they didn't do? And they nearly tried to kill them.
And it was found out.

Speaker 1 And they were just goths, you know, the stuff like that. And it didn't break out of middle America because the internet wasn't there.

Speaker 1 But I have to think now, if you had, if the satanic spout scandal broke out again, you would certainly know about it because it would be be all over the world and this person was involved in this yeah yeah the same some part it was something to do she was something to do in a military base um i wish i could remember her name she she she as i say she did this thing about um

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 2 babies pumping their mini they're popping the buttons on their thing you know which is and so this is a crazy person yeah this is crazy person so a crazy person who was a part of the satanic panic is now telling you that a baby fiddling with its buttons is probably trans.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And people are listening. And people are listening.
And wow. And you have, I mean, one of the things, when you said, why has this happened?

Speaker 1 Like, another thing that's happened is you got to understand there's millions of things going on at the same time.

Speaker 1 Right. A lot of very bad men have been empowered.
Okay. A lot of very bad men know they can walk into a female-only space and at least they may even get a fucking payout if someone complains.
Right.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 But then there's a lot of, of you know really lovely kids who are growing up and have been told like boys who've been told that boys are evil and they and they've they've they feel guilty because they think of women in a sexual way and you know they there's there's stories of boys being castrated because of that you know they they do not want to associate themselves with what they see as male toxicity you know so

Speaker 1 anyway

Speaker 1 oh yeah and then there's other there's other things there's like you know people like that grifter who said that about the baby grows. There's all sorts.
It's like a gold rush.

Speaker 1 If you create a

Speaker 1 completely

Speaker 1 senseless system that has no rules, that anyone can be a woman if they put on a dress, and it's just complete free-for-all, it's going to be a gold rush.

Speaker 2 Not just that.

Speaker 2 If you're part of that Klan, you get to be very aggressive about defending these ideas. Yeah.
To the point where you're allowed to hold up pistols and say we shoot TERFs.

Speaker 2 I saw some of that stuff going on in the UK where it's really apparently very hard to get a gun. Yeah.
But shoot TERFs. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's big. I'll tell you what a really funny thing as well.

Speaker 1 You see British people holding up posters saying arm trans people. And it's because they're completely Americanized.

Speaker 2 This term, for people who don't know what it means, is trans-exclusionary radical feminism. So you're talking about shooting a woman.

Speaker 2 So there is a man who identifies as a woman holding a pistol who's about to shoot the real woman and this is openly promoted. Yeah.
There's nothing else like that in the world.

Speaker 2 Imagine if that was instead of TERFs, which is just really a woman saying a man with a penis shouldn't be allowed to be in the woman's room. That will turn you into a TERF.

Speaker 2 And this is a person with a pistol saying shoot TERFs.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And that's okay.

Speaker 1 And also,

Speaker 1 trans exclusionary is such a lie because these women, they accept every woman, no matter how they identify so if a trans man comes in and says i need help or something has happened to me or whatever these groups won't turn them away they're not trans exclusionary right and they're trans man male exclusionary a trans man using the women's room yeah

Speaker 2 but that's a weird thing like if a trans man was using the woman's room

Speaker 2 what would the women you know if we do that's that gets weird right people know joe these are small tiny women with with unconvincing fears about a big giant one one big viking lady who gets on the juice.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I could see how it could be an issue if it's...

Speaker 2 There's people that turn into trans men that are very passable as men. Sure.
Much more so, I think, much more likely than people that are women or male that turn into women.

Speaker 1 Oh, definitely. The effect of facial hair is such a mesmerizing effect.
It's definitely going to change your opinion.

Speaker 2 Especially because there's kind of feminine men. Yeah.
And they'll fall into that category.

Speaker 1 But here's the thing. They also have a bunch of things in common.

Speaker 1 They're all lower than the average height of men. Right.

Speaker 1 And also,

Speaker 1 their voices are croaky. Have you ever noticed Elliot Page's voice?

Speaker 1 It's very croaky now. It's like this.

Speaker 1 It's a little bit like Kennedy going there. Not that bad.
Well, you hear about it for female bodybuilders. Male croakiness.

Speaker 2 Female bodybuilders are the original trans men.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Because they were rejecting testosterone.

Speaker 2 Listen, female bodybuilders,

Speaker 2 we knew a long time ago that you could turn a woman into a man. Yeah, well, like, at least visually.

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 So like go give me some female miss Olympias. I'm going to show you something that's literally not possible.
Okay. This is not physiologically.

Speaker 2 It's not possible for a woman to get this muscular because it's not a woman. It's a science project.
So it's a biological science project. And so this is like

Speaker 2 give me some crazy ones.

Speaker 1 You know in East Germany, the women who were on steroids and so on. Yes.
They weren't told. And on testosterone.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm sure. showed it.
And

Speaker 2 show me one from like the 90s. Okay, how about that young lady in the lower right-hand corner? Look at that.
Look at those muscles, bro.

Speaker 1 Oh, Jesus.

Speaker 2 Bro, that is so crazy. But it does look like, I gotta say, does look feminine in like the hips.
No, sure. But it looks almost like a superhero.

Speaker 1 That's another thing. Hips don't lie, you know?

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 there's another thing that happens.

Speaker 2 How about that one, Jamie?

Speaker 2 Scroll back.

Speaker 1 Scroll up a little.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that one right there, right above that one. The one where her hands are on her hips in the middle.
The blue one. Yeah, look at that one.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Bro.
Yeah. Look at those arms.
But that's just, you know, that's just, you know, someone who's doing that for a competition. That's, you know, and not pretending to be a man.

Speaker 2 Right, but my point is, like, if that

Speaker 2 person did identify as a man and decided to start using the women's room.

Speaker 1 because you know of their biological sex that would freak some women out yeah and and to be honest with you that's a kind of a gotcha that's often pulled out.

Speaker 1 But in the end, the vast majority of the time, you know, and it's... There's not a lot of those.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 Also, it takes not just steroids to get that big. Yeah.
It takes years of being in the gym at steroids for a woman to get that big.

Speaker 1 But let me tell you what I was going to tell you about

Speaker 1 testosterone. The croakiness.
Yeah, the croakiness. Do you know why that is? Why? Because they have slender women's necks, but their vocal cords have expanded.
because it's testosterone.

Speaker 1 And so a lot of trans-identified women have have these croaky voices you know and I thought it was just the deepening of the voice because of

Speaker 1 both of those right it's probably both but but like the deepening of the voice comes because of things like this you know I don't know what Elliot Page sounds like now

Speaker 1 there was something else I was going to tell you about this that was really interesting

Speaker 1 about the

Speaker 1 oh man what was it sorry trans men it's like eight years of stuff just

Speaker 1 crowding up in my head.

Speaker 1 It'll come back to me. It'll come back to me.

Speaker 1 But yeah, these girls, oh, I know what it is. Okay,

Speaker 1 here's another fun fact, right? Okay. Grindr, the gay men's dating hookup app, okay?

Speaker 1 Trans men are going onto that app, expecting to be accepted by gay men, okay?

Speaker 1 And they're not. And again, if the gay men complain, they get thrown off.

Speaker 2 Oh, no. Yeah.
Gays, get a hold of your stuff. Get a hold of your stuff.
Don't let them do that to you.

Speaker 1 But here's what's happening on Grindr. Well, here it is.
Here's what's happening on Grindr. Straight men are joining Grindr to predate on those women.

Speaker 2 On the trans men women.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because

Speaker 1 some of the women

Speaker 1 haven't yet, the testosterone hasn't taken over.

Speaker 2 Oh, so they're catching them while they're vulnerable.

Speaker 1 They catch them while they're vulnerable. They say, hey, I'm a gay man.
Yep. Hey, I'm a gay man.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 That's so good. And so they're predating

Speaker 1 on these vulnerable, you know, confused young women who've been told that they are literally now gay men. They're straight women.

Speaker 2 What percentage, I mean, how many numbers are we talking about where this is a strategy for getting laid?

Speaker 1 I have seen a forum discussion between two guys who were just kind of sniggering about it amongst themselves.

Speaker 2 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 It's really, it's really, I mean, you know, these kids,

Speaker 1 one of the things that gets me about this is that these kids are the kids that I was. You know, they're the strange,

Speaker 1 not well adjusted,

Speaker 1 spend a lot of time reading, maybe, sensitive. A lot of girls who are caught up in this are the most emphatic,

Speaker 1 imaginative girls, you know, and it appeals to them for some reason, you know? It appeals to them, maybe because it feels so,

Speaker 1 they see men as just gliding through life in a way that they can't. And also, they see pornography from when they're kids.
And the women in pornography are treated appallingly. And so they are...

Speaker 1 they are saying, nope, I don't want any of that. And they think they can just...
But what they're really doing is they're stepping into a world where

Speaker 1 they have a four times higher chance of having a heart attack if they're taking testosterone than any than normal women um they're going to die younger you know they're going to lose their ability to have children and and no one is talking about it happening in clusters like that's the most disturbing thing that abigail brought up a lot of these girls are diagnosed as autistic yeah and they wind up

Speaker 2 and they wind up doing these group clusters of six or seven girls which statistically speaking is highly highly unlikely to be natural.

Speaker 2 And it leans towards the idea of a social contagion, and no one wants to believe it. She also talks about how when you do take testosterone, when you're young, it elevates

Speaker 2 your sense of confidence. It alleviates anxiety.
It does a bunch of things for you psychologically.

Speaker 1 It creates more female school shooters. Have you noticed this? It has.
It does. This has been happening recently.
It's a new thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's like, what I can never understand is why there don't exist people in the world. I mean, there are, they are there.
There's a lot of them there.

Speaker 1 But no one on a high level, very few politicians. Trump, in fact, is probably the only one who will say, hang on a sec, this is insane nonsense.
We've got to protect these kids. Let's cut it out.

Speaker 1 Instead, there's this constant like, oh, yeah, but you know, we have, like, a funny thing happened when the Supreme Court recently, I mean, this took for Women Scotland, a group in Scotland, years to get to get through the court.

Speaker 1 But finally, the Supreme Court said, no, sex means biological sex. You know, it doesn't, you know,

Speaker 1 in law. Yeah, in law, sex means biological sex.
And all these places have come back saying it's the most, you know, I don't, we don't know how we're going to implement this. It's all very confusing.

Speaker 1 And they're really dragging their heels with it. You know, it's like, you were able to do it for a hundred years.
How difficult is it to write ladies and gents and put it up in a sign? Right.

Speaker 1 You know, and enforce it. Put it up on a door and enforce it.
You know,

Speaker 1 they are absolutely hypnotized by this. And they're fully convinced that it is just like gay rights, and that

Speaker 1 they have to be careful. Because, I mean, one of the things that's happened, for instance, with the police in the UK is that a few years ago,

Speaker 1 there was a young kid murdered by some racists, a black kid murdered by some racists. And I think it was called the McPherson Report came out that described the police as institutionally racist.

Speaker 1 And they probably were in that way that all cops were racist at one point, you know, or at least, you know,

Speaker 1 very much not right on. But anyway, it was a big scandal.

Speaker 1 It had this convulsive effect on the police. And then the police just flipped and they started putting on pride colours on their faces and marching with pride.

Speaker 1 And I genuinely think that there are police who are complicit.

Speaker 1 In fact, I sent a video, maybe Jamie can pull it up, but I sent a video of the police actually walking away from a group of kettled women. Trans activists had kettled them in this small space.

Speaker 1 Their back was up against a railing and there was a huge crowd of Antifa type guys screaming at these women and about four or five police keeping the Antifa guys from the women.

Speaker 1 And I arrived and I saw them walking away. I saw about six, seven policemen walking away from it, you know.
I was like, what the hell's going on?

Speaker 1 So I think British police are using trans activists to scare women out of fighting for their rights because they know that

Speaker 1 if women gather to meet, trans activists will definitely be there to hurt them or harass them.

Speaker 2 You really think that? You don't think that it's just they're scared of the trans activists?

Speaker 1 No, because they've been advised for years by Stonewall, which was the big gay rights organisation in the UK, that these women are bigots and that these women are actually far right.

Speaker 1 And, you know, and the police believe this stuff because they've had it as training for years.

Speaker 2 So their training is that these women that are fighting for women's rights, these women are bigots, and you should let the Antifa people have out of them.

Speaker 1 Oh, they wouldn't say that officially, but I believe that's what's happening. I believe they're basically using Antifa to control these women.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 the flip side of this is ugly. When people rise up against something like this, it gets real ugly and real violent.
And that's what scares me the most.

Speaker 1 Oh, one of the things we're trying to head off is the backlash against transsexuals and gay people who had nothing to do with this, you know?

Speaker 2 Gay people in particular. There's a a lot of my friends that are gay that do not like any of this movement.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No.

Speaker 2 They don't do not like any of it.

Speaker 1 It's a homophobic movement. Have you ever heard of anything that's more homophobic than a lesbian with a penis? It's homophobia.
That's all it is.

Speaker 1 And for some reason, people have just been held in this kind of, you know, tractor beam where they're just kind of like...

Speaker 1 going along with it and they're not questioning it. I guess they're worried that what happened to people like me will happen to them, but there's increasingly less of an excuse now.
I mean,

Speaker 1 John Oliver and Jon Stewart both said on their programs that puberty blockers were reversible. That is a dangerous lie.

Speaker 2 Well, I don't understand Jon Stewart saying that. I have to assume that Jon Stewart was misinformed.

Speaker 1 Everyone has misinformed people.

Speaker 2 But I have to assume that John didn't look into this because he's super reasonable and very intelligent. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And that's why

Speaker 1 it's crushing when someone like that says something like this. It is simply not true that puberty blockers are reversible.

Speaker 2 It has a direct impact on the development of the child's penis to the point where they might not have brain

Speaker 2 and causes strokes.

Speaker 2 It is literally chemical castration that they used to give to sex predators. That's it.
That's what it is. Yeah, that's what it is.

Speaker 1 It's even a form of the drug. A few years ago, they wanted to put Alan Turing on a banknote in the UK, and now

Speaker 1 they're putting gay kids on the same drugs that

Speaker 1 chemically castrated him.

Speaker 2 Yes, and led him to commit suicide, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 The guy who invented the test to figure out whether or not artificial intelligence had reached sentience.

Speaker 1 Oh, I didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the Turing test. I always forget about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think of him more as the Enigma guy, you know.

Speaker 2 I mean, but imagine that. Like, what a crazy contribution and a footnote in history that we're currently wrestling with.

Speaker 2 Like, we're grappling right now with the idea that these things are already sentient.

Speaker 1 The thing is, we're grappling with things that we shouldn't be grappling with when we're actually on the cusp of what seems to me with AI to be a huge moment in human evolution, right?

Speaker 1 We're about to move into like,

Speaker 1 I always think of it like

Speaker 1 the thing in Alien that Sigourney Weaver

Speaker 1 with

Speaker 1 the JCB.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Exactly. I think that's what AI is for humanity.
We're going to be able to step into these things and be much more powerful than we used to be. We need...

Speaker 2 Or completely irrelevant and we fade off because we're not breeding anymore anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, I mean, you think about the amount of people people that are having children now, especially in developed parts of the world, it drops off. It always drops off.

Speaker 2 But like Japan is at the risk of population collapse. South Korea is at the risk of population collapse.

Speaker 2 Then you factor in microplastics, which significantly affect child's reproductive systems when they're in the uterus. Okay.

Speaker 2 Also, like lower sperm counts.

Speaker 2 You look at like the invention of plastics and the use of plastics, and then the correlation and the giant dip in sperm counts wow we talked about it yesterday in the podcast there's a woman dr.

Speaker 2 Shanna Swan from Harvard who wrote a book on this about phthalates and every person carries like literally a fucking spoon like a like a like a picnic spoon like plastic picnic spoon of microplastics in their brain

Speaker 2 yeah so and this stuff is neutering humans it's also causing their I mean whether it's causing it or where there's a correlation so there's a correlation in a larger number of miscarriages for women.

Speaker 2 And they think a lot of this has to do with environmental toxins. Okay.
And a lot of it has to do with microplastics. So all this is moving us into this genderless direction.

Speaker 2 We're going to stop breeding anyway at the same time where artificial intelligence becomes the new alpha life form on Earth.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but again.

Speaker 2 We just stop breeding off. We just stop breeding.
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Speaker 1 One of the things, I mean,

Speaker 1 I just feel like there's all these, there are all these

Speaker 1 tests ahead of humanity, right? From the things you've just been talking about and all sorts of other things, geopolitical and and so on. Why are we wasting time concentrating on this imaginary thing?

Speaker 1 It's not a real problem.

Speaker 1 It is a mass delusion spread by the internet.

Speaker 2 Well, it's a real problem in that men are always a real problem. Sure.

Speaker 1 But my point is...

Speaker 2 Most robberies, most murders, most car accidents,

Speaker 2 most high-speed car chases, most assault on police officers.

Speaker 2 Most everything.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And we have to deal with the reality of life if we're going to take this major evolutionary step as human beings with AI.

Speaker 1 Because if we continue ignoring the insanity that the internet has brought about with this movement,

Speaker 1 we're just going to waltz right into the next one.

Speaker 1 you know yeah if we don't take time to say okay what just happened right why did it happen how can we make sure it doesn't happen again because it seems to me now that with the trans thing the human race with the internet is is hugely vulnerable to these kinds of

Speaker 1 what you might call them sense-destroying viruses, whatever you might call them.

Speaker 1 I don't know, there should be a word for what the trans movement is, but I think we're so vulnerable to it that we have to start developing

Speaker 1 antibodies, you know?

Speaker 2 I agree with you because I do think that something else could come from a different direction, right?

Speaker 2 So here's what we saw in our lifetime, this same kind of thinking, the same kind of bizarre, violent group thinking. We saw it from COVID.

Speaker 2 We saw people that turned on their neighbors that were skeptical about the vaccine or people that didn't want to take it.

Speaker 2 They were called murderers and plague rats and this craziness where people were ostracized from social circles because they weren't vaccinated.

Speaker 2 And even though in hindsight, they were directionally correct, right? No one, there's been no course correction, but there was this othering of people for a very simple thing.

Speaker 2 Like you decide, like if that fucking thing works and you take it, why are you mad at me if I don't take it?

Speaker 2 If it works, that means you're not going to get COVID no matter what fucking happens to me, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it was weird and illogical. Yeah.
Just like the trans thing, but violent. And people were terrified because your life was in danger.

Speaker 2 So you saw the most vile reactions from older populations who were calling for people to be quarantined, round up in camps, take away their livelihood, take away their children.

Speaker 2 You were hearing it from these old, terrified people with fragile health. And they all got really violent about it online.
They got really, really extreme in their positions on this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I didn't notice that stuff so much.

Speaker 2 Oh, in America, it was nuts. Yeah.
In America, it was wild. And, you know, and it was pushed by these multimedia corporations, these huge news corporations.
It was pushed by them.

Speaker 2 It was all nonsense and propaganda, including Rolling Stone and CNN.

Speaker 2 Rolling Stone had a whole article that was 100% bullshit about people who were waiting in line at the emergency room for gunshot wounds because there were so many people that were getting treated for horse dewormer because they took too much ivermectin.

Speaker 2 Wow. Total fabrication with a stock photograph of people waiting in line in August in Oklahoma.
This is supposed to be taking place.

Speaker 2 A stock photograph of people wearing winter coats outside in line because they're waiting for the fucking flu shot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a lie.

Speaker 2 It's a lie.

Speaker 2 And so there's this willingness to lie with no retractions on all the major television networks. Everybody was like pushing this one narrative, and everyone at home was locked down.

Speaker 2 You couldn't go to work, you couldn't go to school, and everyone was terrified because this had never happened before.

Speaker 2 And we got to see how quickly people who are cowards just attacked the others to try to keep themselves safe.

Speaker 1 It got very rat-like.

Speaker 1 I think it's,

Speaker 1 we live in a village now, really, when you think about it. And I often describe myself as a victim of village gossip on a global scale.

Speaker 1 That's it. That's it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, but it's written down, so it seems a lot more real.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, when the Bible,

Speaker 1 when the printing press appeared, there was a hundred years of chaos as all these sects and everyone who had a crazy idea about the Bible that they'd had themselves, oh, on the seventh page, it says this on line seven.

Speaker 1 And that would become a religion, right? And then for a hundred years, these religions were fighting it out.

Speaker 1 There were pogroms and massacres, and Protestantism was formed because of it.

Speaker 1 We're having a similar moment, right? Yeah. With the internet.
Yeah. Because suddenly every idiot with an opinion is putting it out there.
Some of them are great opinions.

Speaker 1 Some of them are terrible opinions. But there's no difference.

Speaker 1 And one thing I've noticed with the left is that with bad opinions, all they do is they repeat certain lines over and over again, you know? And you hear these things come up over and over.

Speaker 1 That's why I reacted slightly earlier because trans women have always been with us. It's one, it's one that you hear a lot, you know.
Right. But you also hear,

Speaker 1 you know, just things designed to shut down the conversation, you know? And you see them over and over again. They're repeated over and over again.

Speaker 1 Whatever you think of the Gaza situation at the moment, I noticed that it's the same thing, genocide, over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 In every tweet, they mention the word genocide, you know?

Speaker 1 And I don't happen to think it is, but like by the end of it, if you were to stand up against that and say something against that, it's a difficult thing because you suddenly look like you're against genocide.

Speaker 1 You're pro-genocide.

Speaker 2 What is the measure of genocide? Like when does it become genocide?

Speaker 2 Like when you're starving people, when you're bombing indiscriminately, when you've destroyed most of the buildings, when you've killed who knows how many tens of thousands of women and children.

Speaker 1 Wow. Do we want to get into this? Yeah.
I mean,

Speaker 2 we got into it a little bit.

Speaker 1 I just think that, you know, Hamas is, I agree with Coleman Hughes, I think he was on your show, where he says that, you know, Hamas, they've built like a huge network of tunnels underneath people's houses.

Speaker 1 They put their headquarters in civilian buildings.

Speaker 1 It's a form of guerrilla warfare that I don't think should be allowed to continue. And I support Israel in defeating Hamas.

Speaker 2 Is there another way to do it other than to blow up everybody?

Speaker 2 Is there a way to do it without starving the innocent people?

Speaker 1 Again, Again, I just don't know how much of this is Hamas,

Speaker 1 you know, comes from Hamas. I don't know how much of it is true.
I would suggest that all these conversations wait until we finally find out exactly what's happened.

Speaker 1 At the moment, it's fog of war stuff, you know. But I don't want to get into a big debate.

Speaker 2 Have you ever heard of Eric Prince's idea? Do you know Eric Prince?

Speaker 1 Do you know who he is? Was he the Blackwater guy? Yeah.

Speaker 2 He had an idea that apparently he floated by, but they rejected. He said, instead of destroying everything like that, you could just flood the tunnel system with the seawater.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, yeah, great.

Speaker 2 That was his idea.

Speaker 2 You could flush them all right out. Like, they're very vulnerable.
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know whether or not I'm, you know, just, I heard him speak of this.
I believe it was on the Sean Ryan show.

Speaker 2 I might be incorrect. He spoke about it on some show.

Speaker 2 I don't know if it would work. I don't know why they would reject it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
But as I say, I don't really want to go into it because it's such a, again, it's a very, very

Speaker 1 heated debate, and I've only got room for one. I understand what you're saying.

Speaker 2 I understand what you're saying.

Speaker 2 When you're dealing with all this, you lost your entire income. You lost everything.
You lost your standing in the television world.

Speaker 2 You lost a lot of your friends. Oh, my friends.

Speaker 1 No one stuck with you?

Speaker 1 Two people, Jonathan Ross and Richard Iouetti. Everyone else, all the people I'd

Speaker 1 given jobs to, made famous.

Speaker 2 Well, shout out to those two soldiers.

Speaker 1 Oh, they're great. Richard's great.

Speaker 2 It's hard. It's hard to, when someone close to you gets canceled and you're worried about catching strays.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Actually, I should say there are a few people that have stood by me. Lysa Evans, wonderful woman who produced Father Ted, and a few other people.

Speaker 1 She's a big feminist.

Speaker 1 So I shouldn't be too...

Speaker 1 But in terms of my actual old life, everyone just dumped me, you know? Crazy.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's the beautiful thing about the comedy community.
Like, we expect cancellations.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You cancel like like nobody.

Speaker 1 You guys are so interesting. I compare you guys to the birds that feed in between the teeth of crocodiles.
You know, you guys dance so close to being to being cancelled, but

Speaker 1 it doesn't seem to touch you. And it's always great to see.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you saw, did you see the trigonometry interview with

Speaker 1 Kill Tony, Tony Hinchcliffe?

Speaker 2 I did not. You've got to watch that.
Tony's my boy, though. He's my best friend.

Speaker 1 So presumably he told you about that Chinese incident.

Speaker 2 Oh, I was there.

Speaker 1 I was there for the whole thing. I was there for the whole thing.
Mind-blowing.

Speaker 2 I was there for the whole thing. What saved Tony was that he had a recording of the entire set, including the other guy's set.
That's right. And that's what saved him.

Speaker 2 And then it became a thing. But Tony was going through it, man.
It was hard. It was hard to watch a friend go through it like that.

Speaker 2 But, you know, he took like a week off, maybe two weeks off, and then I brought him on the road with me in Utah. We did Salt Lake City, which is an awesome place.

Speaker 2 Wise guys in Salt Lake City, shout out. It's one of the best clubs in the world.
So we did this club, and the audience had no idea who was opening for me. It's just me, right?

Speaker 2 And when they announced Tony Hinchcliffe's name, everybody went crazy.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. It was awesome.

Speaker 2 It was awesome. People stood up, they clapped, they cheered.
And he went up and murdered. He had so much material on that cancellation.
It was so good.

Speaker 2 It was like an amazing moment for him because his comedy actually jumped up a notch. He actually got funnier because of it.
He, like, tightened his bits up and got more aggressive with it.

Speaker 2 He was like, he got really dialed in. He was worried his whole world was going away.

Speaker 1 Same with Shane. I mean, Shane, Shane came up on top of that so brilliantly.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Yeah,

Speaker 1 I just love, I love people who, but for some reason, I just couldn't do it.

Speaker 2 I think because you didn't have a comedy community, like a stand-up community, and also my different things.

Speaker 1 My job required a cast and a crew and producers and agents.

Speaker 1 The UK art sector is completely completely captured, you know?

Speaker 2 Well, it's the same as America. I mean, America is a giant issue with left-wing politics in Hollywood.
Yeah. You're either on the team or you're outside.
And if you're outside, you don't work.

Speaker 2 The only one who works is Chris Pratt. Chris Pratt is like openly Christian, but he's such a nice guy.
You cannot fault him.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 2 He's such a good guy. You can't say him being a Christian is an issue.

Speaker 1 So strange that they're coming after Christians.

Speaker 1 It's like, you know.

Speaker 2 Real Christians are the nicest fucking people you'll ever meet. Exactly, yeah.
They really follow Jesus' principles.

Speaker 2 If you want to use it as a method,

Speaker 2 if you want results,

Speaker 2 their results are pretty fucking solid, man. Real Christians really follow it.
It's some of the nicest people.

Speaker 1 And also, you know, you can disagree with them and not fall out with them. Right.

Speaker 2 Clint Eastwood's grandfather then, because he's old as fuck. Like, they still let him make movies.

Speaker 1 Who? Clint Eastwood. Oh, Clint East.
Jesus. How dare you? Yeah.
Clint. I like his late stage, though.

Speaker 1 His late stage of movies. Yeah, like those kind of documentary-like about ordinary people who get caught up in things.
He did one, Richard Lewis, I think it was called. That was brilliant.

Speaker 1 About a security man who found an explosive

Speaker 1 device at a gig.

Speaker 1 And because he pointed it out, they charged him with it.

Speaker 2 I remember that guy. Yeah, that guy got smeared all over the news.
We all thought that he was the guy who bombed. Yeah.
Yeah, we thought he was the bomber.

Speaker 1 In the film, he said he had one day of being a hero.

Speaker 2 And then it flipped to

Speaker 2 the bomber.

Speaker 2 It's so scary when things like that happen to people because, you know, but Clint, he had this one film to me that is like the answer to the spaghetti westerns. That's unforgiving.

Speaker 2 I think unforgiving.

Speaker 1 It's a great movie.

Speaker 2 I think it's the best western of all time because I think it's probably the most accurate about how fucked up life was back then.

Speaker 1 Have you ever read Larry McMurtry? No. He's a Texan author.
You've got to read Lonesome Dove.

Speaker 2 Oh, I started Lonesome Dove, but I got distracted.

Speaker 1 There's something that happens about page 100, and you will not be able to put it down after that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay, but like

Speaker 1 those books, those lonesome books, the lonesome book series by Larry McMurtry, I watched every Western differently after that because I suddenly realized what these people,

Speaker 1 how brave these settlers were.

Speaker 2 Oh, they were crazy.

Speaker 1 And also he writes about Indians and, or sorry, Native Americans brilliantly, just as well as he writes about everyone else, you know. And, oh, they're great books.
They're great books.

Speaker 1 You just cannot put them down. 800 pages, you'd read them in a week, you know.

Speaker 2 Well, I went through a whole

Speaker 1 series

Speaker 2 of Wild West books that I read

Speaker 2 after I read Empire of the Summer Moon.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 No, not Empire of the Summer Moon.

Speaker 1 No, I know which one you're talking about. You're talking about the Cherokee, the Chirones.

Speaker 2 God damn it. How am I saying that wrong?

Speaker 1 Is it Cheyenne?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 What were they? Oh, I think I read a bit of. Comanches.
Comanches. That's right.

Speaker 2 But what is the

Speaker 1 that?

Speaker 1 It is Empire of the Summer Moon.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Why am I. Oh, I'm confusing it with that Leonardo DiCaprio movie.
That's the first thing that movie afterwards.

Speaker 2 But have they made Empire of the Summer Moon already? They're working on it, I believe. Yeah, no, I was thinking of the Leonardo Caprio.
I was right.

Speaker 2 So Empire of the Summer Moon, which is all about the Comanches and all about the settlers, and all about people that got slaughtered. And you realize how insane life was like.

Speaker 2 And I think Eastwood was the

Speaker 2 closest, I think, to really getting it. Because I think

Speaker 2 I love those old spaghetti westerns, don't get me wrong, but they were this kind of like bullshitty 1970s version of the Wild West. The Clean Eastwood Never Got Shot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 There's more grit

Speaker 1 in that one.

Speaker 2 And it was real. It was like, I believe it.
I believe that the sheriff was a coward.

Speaker 1 Also, it's an interesting thing that you might, if you watch it again, you might notice, but they all know each other. It's so weird.
They all go, do you know William Dancy or whatever?

Speaker 1 And they're going, yeah, yeah, I met him. And because it's like, even even though they're all spread out, they all know each other.
So it's, I bet you that's based on research, you know?

Speaker 2 I bet it is as well. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, they had to know each other.

Speaker 2 But you get a few fucking people and there's no laws.

Speaker 1 You have to know who the dangerous people are. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 William Money.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was a great movie. Oh, fucking.
No, I love Clint.

Speaker 2 But he's grandfathered in as a conservative. John Voigt is kind of on the outs, but he was, you know.

Speaker 1 But, you know, I remember I even kind of was worried about you in the early days. Like, I used to be bit of a bit of a left-wing twat myself.

Speaker 1 You know, I famous, one of the most famous things I did was, do you remember the saluting pug guy who

Speaker 1 got his, yeah, well, I kind of joined in on all that and I'm deeply ashamed of it. And I actually apologized to him at his, I did a video and apologized at a roast

Speaker 1 that he did. Well, good for you.
Because like, you know, I just, I, but I completely believe, this is what I found out.

Speaker 1 I completely believed he was a fascist because that's what every publication was telling me right and I was trusting all these people who eventually came out against me and and now I look back at it and think I was just lied to consistently for all these years and it's meant that I have to readdress things that I've spent the last 25 years thinking about like but but I realize now I wasn't really thinking deeply enough about them like climate change I was always so terrified of climate change you know yeah and and you know I've had about 30 years of being terrified about climate change and nothing's happening.

Speaker 2 Well, go back and watch that stupid fucking movie that Al Gore made. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That movie's so wrong in terms of his predictions. It's, you know, in the benefits of hindsight, looking back.

Speaker 1 I was telling 2019 we'd all be underwater, you know?

Speaker 2 Well, it's not just that. Have you ever seen one of those aerial time-lapse photos of the coast? No.
Yeah, the bitch doesn't move. No, it doesn't move since the 1980s.
It's not going nowhere.

Speaker 2 The reality is, the fucking Earth's climate has never been static. It's never been flat.
It's never been super predictable. It's always gone up and down.

Speaker 2 And the reality of our life is, yeah, we pollute and it's terrible. And we should definitely figure out better solutions.

Speaker 2 The reality is, all that stuff that we're putting in the air in terms of carbon dioxide, that is an issue.

Speaker 1 But also, particulates, also brake dust, also

Speaker 2 when your tires wear out, where do you think they go? Yeah. They go in the fucking air.

Speaker 1 Like that brilliant Bill Burr routine. He says, when you throw away

Speaker 1 your Apple Charger, you know, do you think it just mysteriously disappears? Yeah. You know,

Speaker 1 a fucking, yeah, or a shark starts wearing it as a scarf, you know?

Speaker 1 That's what it is, you know?

Speaker 2 Well, there's a lot of birds who eat bottle caps. That's a real problem.

Speaker 2 You ever seen those terrifying photos of dead birds with stomach, like they've rotted out, and you see their stomach full of bottle caps?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a real issue. Yeah.
It's a real, that's our problem. Our problem is pollution.
Our problem is waste. Our problem is destroying of rivers and the ocean and oil spills.

Speaker 1 These are all problems.

Speaker 2 Climate change, this idea, the problem with it has become politicized.

Speaker 2 And it's become a thing that you have to support, just like you have to support trans rights, just have you have to support this or that or whatever the fuck, get vaccinated. It's all the same shit.

Speaker 1 It's never been more difficult or more, or it's never been made more frightening to do your own thinking.

Speaker 1 It is now a dangerous thing to do.

Speaker 2 Well, you're literally told on mainstream news to not do it. Don't do your own research.

Speaker 2 Which is a crazy thing to tell people. In the age of information, whether you have more access to reality and truth than ever historically, by far, with human beings, don't do it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Don't use it. Don't utilize it.
Don't utilize the greatest tool that mankind has ever devised for figuring out what the fuck is going on.

Speaker 1 Don't do it.

Speaker 1 And you see the kind of mainstream news people in the UK, there's people who have podcasts like Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart and these ex-news readers who are on this program called the News Agents.

Speaker 1 And their job is to deliberately not know things, right? It's almost like, I mean, I think you got the same thing over here

Speaker 1 with the...

Speaker 1 with CNN and stuff.

Speaker 1 You know, their job is to just express confusion about it. Why is everything so...

Speaker 1 And they cannot actually address the issues because if they address the issues they will start saying things that will get them cancelled.

Speaker 1 And so what you have is a kind of a chewing gum for

Speaker 1 information in the UK. It's not real.
It's not actually information.

Speaker 1 It's just these middle-class people, very privileged people, gabbing away. They all think there's no problem with

Speaker 1 men in women's spaces because they will never have to use a shelter.

Speaker 1 They will never have to use a rape crisis center, God willing, you know so these these people who actually are affected by these issues are the last thing on their minds.

Speaker 1 They are very comfortable middle-class people who do not give a damn about anyone.

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Speaker 2 Just go to simply safe.com slash Rogan. That's simply safe.com slash Rogan.
There's no safe like SimplySafe. Outside of their

Speaker 2 experience, no benefit to rocking the boat. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You have to realize what those people are are mouthpieces. You're just a mouthpiece for an organization who occasionally, unfortunately for the network, gets to express their true opinions on things.

Speaker 2 And usually you find out they're fucking dumb. Yeah.
Right? That happens all the time. Yeah, yeah.
And the really smart ones wind up leaving and going somewhere else and starting podcasts.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 some of them it's not their fault. Like the thing I was saying earlier about the chain of trust among doctors, the W path breaking the chain of trust to such an extent

Speaker 1 has affected the whole world.

Speaker 1 So now we can't trust our newsletter to tell us the truth. They're telling us

Speaker 1 a man attacked some people when it was really a woman. We can't trust doctors because doctors are telling these incredibly damaging things to kids.
A kid comes in with

Speaker 1 depression. Oh, you're trans.
I'll tell you, here's a story. I've got this.
This is a story that really illustrates the problem.

Speaker 1 And it's another problem with the press as well. But in New Zealand, there was a young girl.
She was 16 years old, I believe, and she was autistic and anorexic.

Speaker 1 And her parents were first generation, I think, immigrants and had no idea what was going on, right? She was suddenly saying she was a boy. They didn't know what she was talking about, you know?

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 they didn't go with it. And she left home, right?

Speaker 1 Encouraged by what they call a glitter family, which is a bunch of gay or trans-identified people who love bomb her and tell her that she needs to get rid of her parents because her parents are bigots.

Speaker 1 So she moves in with this glitter family. They can't deal with her because she's autistic.
So within a couple of months, she's gone from the house. She's nowhere to live.
Can't go back home.

Speaker 1 Has told her parents

Speaker 1 they're bigots. The New Zealand government, they meet her.
They don't diagnose her as autistic or as anorexic. They diagnose her as trans.

Speaker 1 They give her a hotel room. She died in that hotel room.

Speaker 1 She starved to death in the hotel room because the New Zealand government called her trans and forgot about a young autistic anorexic 16-year-old girl.

Speaker 1 And at the end of it, she was just about making up with her parents and she phoned her mother. Oh, sorry, excuse me, that will go down well.
She phoned her mother

Speaker 1 a few times and they were just about to make it up and then she got a call from the police and she found out that the daughter had been in the hotel right around the corner from where she lived so she left the house went up into the room and took a photograph of her daughter dead and

Speaker 1 no one would tell the story it's taken a year and a half to get this story out in new zealand media because because no one cares no one cares or it's not that no one cares it's a trans story so you just can't get it out and in every country there's always one or two activists who do everything they can like the journalist and or the the people involved with that story were attacked by uh i can't remember his name but there's an activist over there a very vicious activist as there is in ireland and the uk and a few different places and they're always the parents of trans-identified kids you know the the worst people the worst activists the most the most violent activists helen joyce is a brilliant irish writer and she pointed this out they have done the worst thing that you can do to your kids they have they have confused their kids and sometimes they've actually encouraged their kids to take these hormones and to take and to go through these procedures to have a to be castrated to have a double mastectomy they will never be able to accept what they've done to their kids and I know there was one Irish activist who's been planning on transing his kid for at least 12 years right and now the kid is grown up of course the kid is is is is is is is thinks they're a man because they've lived with this homophobic parent, you know, who basically doesn't like seeing gender non-conforming behaviors in their child.

Speaker 1 So they say, oh, actually, he's a woman or

Speaker 1 she's a man you know so so these are the people who are you know that that guy in new zealand he he even when the story came out he still tried to attack the people telling it still he he he he put me in some sort of conspiracy of creating a bigger deal about it than it needed to be a young girl who died in a hotel room because they called her trans and just forgot about her you know like how how how did it take a year and a half for new zealand media to report on that in a country that small?

Speaker 1 You know? And there's so many stories like this.

Speaker 2 Well, I think the dam is breaking because I think there's been a lot of people that are fed up

Speaker 2 and they realize that there's irreversible harm being caused to people that are being tricked.

Speaker 2 There's these stories of the detransitioners and them being attacked online for telling their story, which is true.

Speaker 2 It's a true story about them being confused and being told that they were trans and going through these procedures and deeply regretting it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then going back to their biological sex, they get destroyed online.

Speaker 1 They get treated worse than anyone else, you know, because they are living proof that it's not innate.

Speaker 2 It makes no sense. There's no compassion.
There's no kindness. And I'll tell you evil.

Speaker 1 And also, I'll tell you what else.

Speaker 1 I have an iPhone, right? And whenever I write the word detransitioners on my iPhone, which I have cause to do quite a lot, it underlines it in red because it will not recognize the word exists.

Speaker 2 But is it because it doesn't know the word yet? Yeah, but how does it mean? Because it does it with cunt, too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but detransitioners isn't a dirty word.

Speaker 2 Actually, it doesn't do it with cunt anymore. Right.
But they used to underline it.

Speaker 1 Well, detransitioners is a dirtier word than that.

Speaker 2 Let me see if it works in America. Do you have an American iPhone?

Speaker 1 No. I'd be curious.

Speaker 2 I'm going to take it.

Speaker 1 People

Speaker 1 want to go away and try it. Try writing D-transitioners and see if it underlines it.

Speaker 1 But my point is that one of the

Speaker 2 underlined it. Yeah.
Motherfuckers. There you go.

Speaker 2 Let's see if it gives me some suggestions.

Speaker 2 No replacement found. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 It's playing dumb.

Speaker 1 And that's what Wikipedia is the same. Wikipedia is moderated by trans activists.

Speaker 2 But that's kind of crazy. Yeah.
I wish I had my Android phone here. I would want to check that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that'd be interesting.

Speaker 1 But Wikipedia has been, there was a war within Wikipedia, I believe, where all the trans

Speaker 1 ally moderators won. And now Wikipedia, my Wikipedia page has basically been vandalized for years, you know?

Speaker 1 And if I complain to a press authority that they call me anti-trans, they go, well, it says it on your Wikipedia. And

Speaker 1 we've tried to change it, but it reverts back within 15 minutes every time. So if anyone would like to do a class action suit against Wikipedia, I'd love to be involved if that ever.

Speaker 2 Just for the record, Kunt doesn't show up with a red line. okay there you go detransitioner does cunt does not there you go there you go I wonder which is it the actual

Speaker 1 but but my point actually sorry the reason I bring it up is because a lot of tech guys

Speaker 1 are tech because they're autistic right and they a lot of coders are are you know you spend all your time writing in the dark and coding stuff your interests go that way so the trans thing is has come up a lot as well from kind of manipulation by these tech guys who are a lot of whom identify as trans.

Speaker 1 So we're living in a world now where like the underlying D transitioner, they are controlling what we think is normal and what we think is unusual.

Speaker 1 So to everyone now we write down D transitioner, you doubt yourself because there's a red line underneath it. Oh, it mustn't be a real word or it's D and then a space maybe or whatever.

Speaker 1 But no, you're right. It's just these fucking tech guys are trying to confuse you, keep you unbalanced, you know, so that you can't discuss this issue.

Speaker 2 Aaron Trevor Bowie, that is a weird one because when did detransitioner first start being used? When did the term

Speaker 1 I don't know? I mean,

Speaker 2 the term is clearly when you only use it with sex, right? You're only using it with gender or whatever you want to say, sex or gender.

Speaker 2 That's the only detransitioner, transitioning anything from something to something else. That's not ever done before.
And I don't remember ever using that term detransitioner in any other way.

Speaker 1 That's interesting, possibly because,

Speaker 1 you know, the trans thing is not, as I say, it's not real. It's an artificial human-invented thing.

Speaker 2 Yes, and it kind of implies regret. Yeah.
The detransitioner stories are never happy ones.

Speaker 1 You know the American Southern Law Center? Have you ever heard of them? They have named Chloe Cole. You know Chloe Cole, the Detransitioner? She's doing brilliant work.

Speaker 1 They've named her as a far right, simply because she's going around telling her story.

Speaker 2 I think I'm far right too. They say say I'm far right too.

Speaker 1 Oh, they say everyone's far right.

Speaker 1 If you say anything that diverts from what a bunch of lunatics online have agreed is the truth, then you're far right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't.

Speaker 2 Everyone's politically homeless. We have to realize that.
Start a shelter. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Call it the center. But

Speaker 1 I don't think the systems we have are going to... are

Speaker 1 going to last much longer. I think AI is going to change everything.
I think you're right.

Speaker 2 But I think reluctantly, because there's people that are in control of the system right now that are extracting enormous amounts of money, you know, with just fill in the blank of all the different special interests that have a hand in how much money gets distributed this way and that way.

Speaker 2 There's so much of that that really fuels the decisions that are being made in this country.

Speaker 2 It's not really the will of the people. It's not really trying to make America great.

Speaker 2 And I mean, yeah, it is. But also, if you really wanted to do it, you wouldn't do it this way.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 If that's what your main goal was, if your main goal was to make money and give the illusion that we're fixing all the problems that America has while fixing some of them, well, then that's what you're doing.

Speaker 1 Because that's what your goal seems to be.

Speaker 2 Your goal is not, the real goal should be like letting AI have a look at everything. Like, what's the best way to distribute all these resources?

Speaker 2 And is it really fair that this corporation gets to pollute the fucking ocean?

Speaker 1 Like, let's figure out

Speaker 2 what's the right way to do this.

Speaker 2 And that's going to be horrifying for anybody in any position of power.

Speaker 1 It's like people say about your show, you know, the reason Kamala

Speaker 1 didn't come on is simply because there's a certain breed of politician who are, I think, dying out, who are the kind of politicians that couldn't survive three hours talking to you, you know? Right.

Speaker 1 And they, I don't think they've long left because things like this are the way that people get their information now. So, you know,

Speaker 1 you get these like, and it's the only reason why people, oh, I've got a good thing to tell you about AOC as as well

Speaker 1 it's the only reason why people like

Speaker 1 AOC and and people like this are able to continue spouting nonsense is because they don't go on shows like this

Speaker 1 here's an interesting thing at one point in my I still haven't told you half the things I was going to tell you but at one point a streamer did a

Speaker 1 I managed to take some money I managed to stop the the

Speaker 1 charity mermaids from getting uh uh funding from the national lottery in the UK. Mermaids used to be a good organization.

Speaker 1 Dysphoria was very rare, and they treated it as you should, right? With things like affirmation as a final step, not the first step, okay? Surgery and drugs. Final.
That's what it should always be.

Speaker 1 And they were great. And then

Speaker 1 a woman named

Speaker 1 Susie Green came on board. And Susie Green.

Speaker 2 Does Susie have a penis?

Speaker 1 No, but her son did. Her son did.

Speaker 1 And Susie Green took over over at Mermaids, transformed it into a mental institution. And

Speaker 1 she took her son to Thailand on his 16th birthday to have him castrated.

Speaker 1 You know?

Speaker 1 And now, and this kid has been brought up since they were four or five years old because there's a famous TED Talk where there's a hilarious, you've got to see this TED Talk.

Speaker 1 She does this TED Talk and she's got the, you know, the TED Talk thing. So she looks like an expert.
And she's doing the hand movements like they all do in TED Talks, right?

Speaker 1 So you think this is someone who knows what they're talking about. And she just admits that the kid liked playing with girls' toys.
The husband didn't like it.

Speaker 1 She decided it was really a girl. And that's the TED Talk.
There's no, there's no explanation of what trans is or anything like that. Gay.
It just goes, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 Well, this is the reality that they don't like. Yeah.
The reality that they don't like is if you leave them alone and you don't encourage transition, the vast majority of them become gay men.

Speaker 1 It's something like 60 to 90%.

Speaker 1 It's like leave them alone and they'll be fine. The fastest cure for dysphoria and teenagers is leave them alone, let them go through puberty.

Speaker 1 Because puberty is like a wonderful flushing of all the things that make you uncertain about yourself. To come to the end of puberty is to is to get rid of all that stuff.

Speaker 1 It's still there in traces and so on, but

Speaker 1 that's what puberty does. It cures itself.
So these people are trying to fucking stop it, right? Have you ever heard anything so demented? It's like a James Bond villain.

Speaker 1 Something so demented about stopping puberty, this brilliant process that turns you from a child into an adult, and they're stopping it. These people are dangerous.

Speaker 2 You're stopping in the line that the effects are reversible.

Speaker 1 One person at the Tavistock, one doctor at the Tavistock said that she was sure one of the parents who came in was a pedophile and wanted to keep their child in a state of arrested development so they could abuse them longer.

Speaker 1 You know, this is doctors at the Tavistock. And again, this stuff is not well known.
If it was well known, it would be over, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 our fucking news has failed us.

Speaker 1 It really has. It's allowed this to go on for 10 years.
It's, do you know about, did you see what Andy No's investigation into Trantifa,

Speaker 1 this gang of actually, Trantifa is a more general term, but there was an actual gang of trans-identified guys

Speaker 1 and women, and they they went to this guy's

Speaker 1 this guy was this guy was

Speaker 1 I think he was an old rancher or something and they blinded him in an attack you know and then he went out to he was going to testify at the trial and they killed him they killed him so what what we have with this group I can't remember what they were called I wish I could remember but but what we have with this group is because

Speaker 1 no one has been doing their jobs including the press and not talking about this properly, an entirely for fake terrorist group that thinks it's a civil rights movement has formed out of nothing.

Speaker 1 These are middle-class white guys, right, who normally would be, I don't know, going to gigs and stuff.

Speaker 1 And this kind of violent civil rights group is formed for nothing.

Speaker 1 It's not defending anyone. It's not helping anyone.
It's simply there to get men into women's toilets, you know? And it just, we've created it.

Speaker 1 And now we have to deal deal with it, you know, this kind of mirage of a civil rights movement, you know. Sorry, I'm not really being very clear, but

Speaker 2 this is so disturbing.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But it's just you're sticking your neck out and talking about the worst aspects of this whole thing.

Speaker 1 One of the things that used to happen to me was I would talk about very specific people. Like, for instance, there was someone who worked in Stonewall who helped create their trans

Speaker 1 policies named Amy Challoner. And Challoner, it was discovered that Challoner was the son of a bloke who had tied up and tortured a little girl in the attic of their home.

Speaker 1 He still continued to work with Stonewall. He continued to use his father as an election agent.
And

Speaker 1 when he was reprimanded, they said he had absolutely no understanding of what was wrong, of what he had done wrong, and so on.

Speaker 1 This person was central to the trans movement in the UK. And there's so many examples of this.
There's a guy called Peter Thatchell. Peter Thatchell has a long history of

Speaker 1 literally promoting paedophilia as

Speaker 1 something that's sometimes enjoyed by the child. That's how he puts it.

Speaker 1 It's a famous letter he wrote to The Guardian where he said, I have many friends who say they have experiences that ranged from nine to thirteen, where they had entirely entirely good outcomes.

Speaker 1 With what are you talking about? Nine, nine is rape. Thirteen is rape.
What are you talking about? It doesn't matter if they say they had good experiences. They were groomed, you know? And this man

Speaker 1 is a fairly significant figure in the UK.

Speaker 1 It's no investigation into these writings, no kind of talk about it. Again, it's just completely ignored.

Speaker 1 Because as I say, the UK is addicted to harming children, not talking about it, and only kind of saying, oh, what could have happened years later?

Speaker 2 I just don't understand why there's not a larger population of people

Speaker 2 that have gotten completely fed up with this.

Speaker 1 It's because the press sits on it. Most people don't know what's happening.
Most people in the UK think I just went mad. They think I went mad.

Speaker 1 I started harassing women, some form of women, and blah, blah, blah. And they believe all the stories that have been reshared and reshared about me.

Speaker 1 and you know and they just don't know because no I've never in the eight years I've been fighting this the only time I appeared on like mainstream TV to talk about this issues and I sent this to Jamie was when they ambushed me and they just berated me for five minutes

Speaker 1 journalist named Sarah Smith did the interview who's now the head of BBC in North America I should say and

Speaker 2 How did she berate you?

Speaker 1 What'd she say? Well, I was saying she just simply didn't believe it. The funny thing was, some of her journalists were working on a story about the Tavistock at the time.

Speaker 1 And I was just saying, you know, kids are being hurt. Kids are being hurt in these gender clinics and it should be stopped, you know.

Speaker 1 And she was like, you're seriously saying that doctors are blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she just couldn't.
It was so weird. She just couldn't.

Speaker 1 And the stuff I'd known to be true, that I'd been studying for years, she just wasn't across it, you know?

Speaker 1 The journalists aren't across it because it's not worth their while to be across it.

Speaker 1 And they're actually slowing down the understanding of what this is about, you know, because they approach it so gingerly and they don't offend anyone and they don't want to be cancelled.

Speaker 1 So there's no conversation about it. There's no conversation about the journey.

Speaker 2 Well, the journalists have no security because it's not, let's be honest, to be a talking head on the news, it's not that difficult to do.

Speaker 2 And there's a lot of people out there that are handsome and beautiful and that would take your role.

Speaker 2 And so you have a salary where you make X amount a year and it's pretty nice. I mean, you get to be the presenter on television.
They don't want to rock that fucking boat.

Speaker 2 There's no benefit to rocking that boat.

Speaker 1 It's the people who go the extra mile. Like I was I was you know people who I can't bring my old friends who worked with me into this fight.

Speaker 1 I can't say look you've got to stand up for me you know but I have begged people to help you know like did you go on any podcasts in the UK

Speaker 1 not really no again the online space because it's so audience facing they would have just got tons of abuse for having me on you know even trigonometry Oh, no, trigonometry had me on, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But like,

Speaker 1 but like, in terms of, you know, yeah, there's a few, but I don't know. It just never quite broke out.
In fact, to be honest with you,

Speaker 1 I've been thinking of this opportunity for the last eight years.

Speaker 2 Come on here? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Why don't you reach out earlier? I'm an idiot.

Speaker 1 I just didn't think it would be. I thought you'd have a backlog of years and so on.

Speaker 2 Well, I do kind of, but I do it all based entirely on who I want to talk to.

Speaker 1 Okay, cool. That's the whole

Speaker 2 from the beginning of the podcast, it's all, you know, this is an interesting story. Yeah.
This guy's fascinating. She's got a crazy thing that she studied.
Sure.

Speaker 1 Like, let's talk. Oh, and I should say,

Speaker 1 also,

Speaker 1 you know, while I was going through COVID and canceled, I did write this book unpaid because

Speaker 1 I was promised there'd be a back end.

Speaker 1 And then the book came out and all booksellers started hiding the book in

Speaker 1 bookshops. So if anyone wants wants to help out, my book is called Tough Crowd and

Speaker 1 is available on Amazon.

Speaker 2 Did you do the audio? Yeah.

Speaker 1 The audio is good, actually.

Speaker 2 I'm happy with the audio. I'm sure.

Speaker 1 You did it. Oh, that's great.
That's very nice. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm always very happy when, especially like someone's telling a story about their own life. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, I'm proud of it. It was really good fun.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, quite interesting to read out your own story. It's so weird, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 But have you thought about leaving the UK?

Speaker 1 I've left. You have left?

Speaker 1 I've had to leave i i i'm on trial next month in the uk for what a trans activist has brought another uh has complained to the police about me again you know and and so i have to go back to uh to uk to be tried at the start of august because the police are complicit with these guys you know and what is this complaint about uh it's it's uh a complaint uh how much i can't really talk much about it because because i can't my bail conditions are not to talk about it oh my god but i'll be talking about it when it's done i'll enjoy that you know, because this the the the whole situation is so hilarious.

Speaker 1 When people find out what's really going on, they're going to be I can talk about there's one guy who's uh oh yeah,

Speaker 1 there's there is a connection with the guy I was telling you at the start, the very first guy who The Guardian wrote about, you know? So it's like it's just basically a gang. I compare it.

Speaker 1 It's been it's been like being attacked by Batman villains for the last eight years. Do you know what I mean? The most bizarre group of people have been able to sue me.

Speaker 1 And And there's one actor, Scottish actor, who destroyed a gay business, who's suing me at the moment. I've been in litigation for about eight years for one reason or another, and never,

Speaker 1 because I don't have the money to sue people. So people are constantly suing me,

Speaker 1 reporting me to the police. I've been visited by the police three or four times.
You know, that was one of the things that really scared my wife when they sent the police to my house, you know?

Speaker 1 And it was pressures like that that broke us up, you know, along with not having an income. So, and now the people who did that to us make fun of me because I'm divorced, you know?

Speaker 1 So it's like it's it's it's just a really evil bunch of like,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 I guess it's it's it's

Speaker 1 it's it's a natural part of the internet in some way to have a hate figure, you know, but by God, it should scare everybody how easy it is to become a hate figure when you've not done anything wrong, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and if you don't have a voice,

Speaker 2 how difficult it is to defend yourself.

Speaker 1 And you know, and also.

Speaker 2 And people are like shying away from your ability to defend yourself.

Speaker 2 They don't want you on because they don't want to catch strays.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, there's a guy who I first put on TV in the UK.
You may know him, Graeme Norton. Do you know what? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 like I gave him his first TV appearance, okay, in Father Ted. And he he went on TV and said something like,

Speaker 1 cancel culture didn't didn't exist it's consequences culture and he knows very well what I've been through and he knows very well that I'm not saying anything bigoted and yet he still says says this as if I haven't had my life completely destroyed he knows it was in reference to you that he was saying no I don't think so I think he just he just

Speaker 2 spouting the narrative he's spouting the narrative you know he's showing that he's a good boy yeah he's gonna follow the rules exactly and that's what's scary a lot of people fall into that that you would hope wouldn't well that's what I find so inspiring that's one of the reasons why I came here.

Speaker 1 I can't live in the UK anymore.

Speaker 1 As far as I'm concerned, free speech does not exist in the UK, certainly as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 2 Well, we've highlighted on the show how many people have been arrested. Like when Constantine from Trigonometry gave me those figures, I couldn't believe it.
It was mind-boggling.

Speaker 1 The UK is involved. Basically, the UK likes nothing better than sweeping stuff

Speaker 1 under the rug. Well, not just that, but

Speaker 1 that's why Rotherham went on for 30 years.

Speaker 1 What went on? The Rotherham abuse scandal.

Speaker 1 all these taxi drivers pakistani taxi drivers were uh abusing kids over over 30 years like local girls local white girls uh doing the most appalling things to them and uh it was just everyone was scared of being a racist so so they just let it go on and it's the same thing with this and and you know i always think when we were talking about oliver and stewart earlier like they said the puberty blockers were reversible about two years ago how many kids since then have gone on puberty blockers partly because of what they they said, you know?

Speaker 1 It's like people have got to realize,

Speaker 1 you know, Graham Norton saying that about cancer culture, Jon Stewart saying that about puberty blockers. Their words have consequences, you know? Yeah.
And real people can be hurt.

Speaker 1 You know, people just spout off stuff.

Speaker 2 And not people that deserve it. No.
And this is the thing, this casting of othering on people like instantaneously.

Speaker 1 I never had a problem.

Speaker 1 I've never had anyone accusing me of anything on a set I always got on great with all my actors I knew all my crew's name that was one thing I always I developed a skill because I'm terrible with names normally but I I learned every crew member's name I've not been in any way controversial until this and then the moment I started saying hey hang on a sec and all of my friends you know all the friends who betrayed me the hat-trick and and my friends on the TED musical all they had to say was of course women deserve fair sports of course women deserve single sex spaces that's all they have to say.

Speaker 1 And they can't do it. They can't do it.
It's such an obvious moral thing.

Speaker 2 Obvious. And that's what's amazing about the power of cults.
And people do not like to think that they're in a cult.

Speaker 1 But if

Speaker 2 you have no room for objectivity and logic and you hold things as doctrine that don't make sense, they could be easily argued against.

Speaker 2 And if you get very violent, when someone argues against that, you're in a cult.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But also, there's people who don't get violent, but they're also in a cult, but they don't realize it.
Because, like, when I was talking about the chain of trust, right?

Speaker 1 If you're a newsreader and you get a piece of copy that says,

Speaker 1 talks about a newborn baby and uses the word assigned at birth, their sex is the sex they were assigned at birth, right? That's ideological language. Your sex is not assigned at birth.

Speaker 1 Your sex is observed in utero, usually, a few months before birth, okay? So assigned at birth is ideological language. So what you have is a lot of people now using the word assigned at birth.

Speaker 1 They don't know why. It's because that was decided to be the correct terminology.
And it is nonsense, you know.

Speaker 2 Full nonsense. Yeah.
Biological nonsense. Yeah.
We've known it forever. You could check chromosomes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's not hard.

Speaker 1 But it's like, you know,

Speaker 1 we've become hypnotized by appearances to such an extent that,

Speaker 1 you know, you get a, like every single, there's a very funny thing.

Speaker 2 You mean appearances of like

Speaker 2 virtue and

Speaker 2 as a human.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, actual avatars. It's the idea that you're a woman if you look like one.
It's like, when did that come from?

Speaker 1 Where did that come from? And especially in a world where people can use filters and all sorts of things.

Speaker 1 The guy who came after me in the UK, his latest female name is the third or fourth name he's had.

Speaker 1 It's just he hit on one that he could report people to the police if they said, Hey, hang on a sec, you owe me money from three months' rent. He would report them for anti-trans harassment.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. You know? And so, you know, it's nuts.

Speaker 2 They're just nutty people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it's just appearances.

Speaker 2 If you're a dude and you change your name more than once, even if you change your name once, unless you're a boy named Sue. The whole thing.
I need to know why you changed your fucking name.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Hang on a sec. If these people are becoming who they really are, why are they cutting off pieces of themselves? That's not them, that's someone else.
Why are they cutting, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 It's like, if they're being who they really are, why are you changing your name? Right. You know,

Speaker 2 this idea of affirming, like gender-affirming care, you know, to call hormone replacements, castration.

Speaker 2 The craziest one is the penis that they make out of the leg muscle.

Speaker 1 Oh, I didn't know that one. Oh.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Dude, it's horrific.

Speaker 2 Shane Gillis, one night in the green room of the mothership started pulling out all these pictures.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. No, I never watched, I never look at pictures of it.

Speaker 2 Because of the internet now, we have a lot of data on what this is. And they do it so they could stand up peeing.

Speaker 1 That's it. You can't.
Oh, the freaking

Speaker 1 fake penis thing.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Fallow plastic.

Speaker 1 Do you know what the worst I saw was? What?

Speaker 1 Okay, we've noticed that when you see these girls, they often take photographs just after the double mastectomy, okay? Yeah. And

Speaker 1 they're smiling and they look delirious with happiness because this thing they've been bargaining with their parents for for years they finally got it and they've they've got these terrible looking you know

Speaker 1 wounds over their breasts and so on and they're just kind of um

Speaker 1 uh you know they're still out of their mind with the um with the with the drugs that they've been taken to to go on them oh fuck i forgot why i brought this up what were you talking about just before that fake penises oh yeah yeah yeah okay and we've noticed in these photographs that a lot of the girls have um

Speaker 1 self-harming scars all over their bodies okay and this double mastectomy this unnecessary double mastectomy is the is the latest one these bastard doctors just carried out on her anyway i saw a penis that had been you know the way they take the flesh off the arm or the leg yeah or or the leg yeah i saw a penis that had been made out of the arm of one of these girls and these self-harming scars were all over the penis oh

Speaker 1 You know, did you know the first vagina plastic was carried out by a Nazi? I got into trouble because I compared, because

Speaker 1 a magazine in the UK misreported something I'd said and said that I was comparing trans activists to Nazis.

Speaker 1 And, you know,

Speaker 2 when did this happen? That the Nazis did that?

Speaker 1 Oh, no, what happened was I think his name was Erwin Gorpard,

Speaker 1 and he was working in some clinic before the war and then he went on to join the Luftwaffe and then he became he was one of the scientists who tortured people at Belsen.

Speaker 1 That's the first person who did a vaginoplasty. Jesus Christ.
So these are literally Nazi experiments that are now,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 that we're now arguing that kids should do, you know.

Speaker 1 It's a crap. I kind of thought this conversation you would make that face a few times in this conversation.

Speaker 2 But, you know, yeah, it's just, and the thing is, I went down a rabbit hole one night when I was watching people talk about their dilations, how they have to keep something in there to keep the wound from closing up.

Speaker 1 It's a Cronenberg movie. You know, Cronenberg? David Cronenberg? It's just like that.
It's horrific.

Speaker 2 It's just, it's wild.

Speaker 2 What's this?

Speaker 2 Institute for Sexual Research served as the world's first trans clinic by 1930. It performed its first modern gender-affirming surgery.
So it was 1930.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I don't think that's the place that's being

Speaker 1 that I'm

Speaker 1 talking about. Yeah, no, that's Magnus Hirschfeld.
Magnus Hirschfeld, this is a big thing that trans activists say that there was all this, the Nazis destroyed all this trans history. It's not true.

Speaker 1 They went after him because he was a Jew. That's why they went after him.

Speaker 1 The idea, the first trans class, if you look at the first few pages of Google search results, if you put in anything about trans, you'll get three or four pages of absolute nonsense, you know, of stuff that another thing, Fred Sargent, I'm just remembering all the stuff I wanted wanted to say to you, Fred Sargent, you got to try and get him on.

Speaker 1 He's getting on, and he was like,

Speaker 1 he's a gay guy who was there every single night of the Stonewall riots, you know, and he is still on Twitter, still fighting. He's fucking great.
He went on to,

Speaker 1 he arranged the first Pride march in New York.

Speaker 1 He was highly instrumental in gay rights in the U.S. and in winning civil rights for gay people in the U.S.
He's had to watch as

Speaker 1 these trans activists just make up lies about any transvestite who happened to be in the area. There's one guy, oh, I've forgotten his name, Marshall Marsha something.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure you've heard all this thing. Again, it's another one of these kind of

Speaker 1 thought-terminating clichés that, you know, trans people won you your rights and trans people

Speaker 1 threw the first bricket at Stonewall. It's bollocks, you know, like the Marsha person they're talking of was purely peripheral peripheral character.

Speaker 1 And the person who really kicked it off, who has been sort of, is being gradually erased, was a lesbian whose, ah, her name, because again, being erased from my memory because I haven't used it so long.

Speaker 1 But it was a lesbian who shouted out to the crowd as she was being forced into a police car,

Speaker 1 why aren't you guys doing anything? And that's what kicked off the riot.

Speaker 1 And that history and that contribution by lesbians and gay men is being erased by trans rights activists in front of Fred's eyes.

Speaker 1 So Fred is on Twitter saying, no, that's not true, just over and over again. You know, he lived it.
He was right at the center of gay civil rights in the U.S.

Speaker 1 And in his last few years, he has to watch these idiots pick apart and lie about the true history of gay rights in the world.

Speaker 2 Well, the thing is, we're dealing with an oppressive hierarchy.

Speaker 2 If you're more oppressed than anybody, you take the supreme position. You're the person to be cherished.

Speaker 2 And anybody underneath you, regular gay people, are below trans people in the suppression hierarchy.

Speaker 2 Trans people are the apex.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. They're a sacred class.
A sacred class. Yes.

Speaker 2 And that's what's weird because that is kind of homophobic.

Speaker 1 And also,

Speaker 1 one of the things we learned with Ireland, right, and the Catholic Church scandal is no sacred classes. There should be no sacred classes.

Speaker 1 Because sacred classes have a lot of power and power is misused all the time. Always.
Yeah. So the idea of a sacred, like I don't know whether you know this, but girl guiding in the UK.

Speaker 1 Okay, what does that mean? You know the scouts? Yes,

Speaker 1 girl guiding.

Speaker 1 They have a rule, very strict rules for men, okay? Men cannot go over, spend the night overnight in a tent with girls, go on trips. All this sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 So there's all sorts of very sensible rules to do with men in girl guiding because you're dealing with kids, okay, young girls. Those rules

Speaker 1 they don't just soften for trans-identified men, they disappear. So if a man says that he's a woman, is a transvestite, all those rules

Speaker 1 that are so

Speaker 1 important for protecting kids disappear. And trans-identified men can now take girl guiding groups out on on trips without any of the

Speaker 1 woods.

Speaker 1 I don't know where they go, but yeah.

Speaker 2 I imagine if you're camping.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But you know, it's, it's, and, and, and what's insane about it is because, you know,

Speaker 1 people who are sane aren't being interviewed, are being losing their jobs, losing their voices, um,

Speaker 1 no one can raise the alarm about this, you know?

Speaker 2 And we're only the vast majority of people listening to this would highly disagree with all these policies. Yeah.
The vast, vast majority. Exactly.
It's a very small and very, very vocal minority.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but that's the thing. The internet makes giants out of, you know.

Speaker 2 Well, it's also people go along with it knowing it's a part of the ideology that they adhere to. That's all it is.

Speaker 2 They get locked into, I'm a left-wing progressive person, so therefore I support that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and

Speaker 1 I'm still astonished that tribalism can go to such an extent that you would harm children. You know, I find that extraordinary.

Speaker 2 It is extraordinary, but it just shows you how powerful it is, how powerful tribalism really is, and how people will justify the most horrific of things if it fits into this narrative that they have decided is a part of their identity.

Speaker 2 And a lot of people do that, man. There's a giant percentage of people that their political identity, which includes that, if you're progressive, it includes all this trend stuff.

Speaker 2 Your political identity is more important than your family. It's more important than anything.
People ostracize family members if they don't agree with the idea of that.

Speaker 1 Isn't that interesting? That's a big thing.

Speaker 1 Another story for you. I met this journalist, I think she's also a therapist, but her name's Tina Traster.
And she wrote a piece for Psychology Today.

Speaker 1 She'd already written some articles in the past for it. And she wrote a new one.
And this is like, you know, established magazine, Psychology Today.

Speaker 1 And she wrote a piece about how trans-identified kids were becoming homeless, but they weren't homeless because their parents had rejected them.

Speaker 1 They were homeless because they'd rejected their parents. Their parents had misgendered them one too many times or wouldn't really take it seriously or whatever it happens to be.

Speaker 1 These kids leave, you know? These kids leave and they go off and they, you know, they become homeless or whatever it happens to be or they move in with glitter families or whatever it happens to be.

Speaker 1 But they lose contact with their parents and she said, well, this is usually the choice of the trans-identified child.

Speaker 1 The piece was taken off the next night and all her previous pieces were removed. Because she wrote that.
Oh my God. You know?

Speaker 1 and there's so many people I know in this, and it happened in my like wonderful woman named Sasha White, who was in publishing and she lost her publishing career and is now same as me.

Speaker 1 I had to, I had to go back to journalism. And I should plug it.
I have a website called the Glinner Update.

Speaker 1 And my website, along with a few others, Redux and a few others, is the only websites cataloging all this insanity for the last eight years. You know, we're the only ones doing it.

Speaker 1 No one else is covering it. So I think that when

Speaker 1 people tally up the score at the end of it,

Speaker 1 you will be surprised how many people have a similar story to mine.

Speaker 1 It's not like I was canceled, but

Speaker 1 I had something of a name, but I know so many people, police women who've lost their jobs,

Speaker 1 prison wardens,

Speaker 1 people in all walks of life, ordinary people, who are constantly running afoul of these lunatics because they're not being backed up by the adults in the room.

Speaker 2 It's so bad that in the United States there's men who identify as women with fully functional penises that are locked up in women's prisons. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like,

Speaker 1 and I saw Joyce Carol Oates today,

Speaker 1 who's a writer, suspense writer, and she occasionally dips her toe into this subject just to show how little she knows about it. And then she doesn't talk about it again for a few months.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 how did someone put it?

Speaker 1 They said something like,

Speaker 1 someone joked about her, she refused to believe that there were men in women's prisons.

Speaker 1 how many are you know hundreds is the answer but but you give all the answers they just ignore them they never take it on they never take it on board but like these these

Speaker 1 policies are so bizarre that the people supporting them don't even believe what they're supporting. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 She thinks that there's no issue, that it's not a problem, that trans people are all great because she has one lovely trans friend who's never been rude to her, right?

Speaker 1 But the truth is that there's so many different types of people in the world. And again, if you move the line for criminals, do you not think criminals will take that opportunity? You know?

Speaker 1 I read an interesting thing about

Speaker 1 when cops are looking for someone.

Speaker 1 If they hear, for instance, they're parked at a supermarket, their target is parked at a supermarket, the first thing they do is they drive around all the disabled spaces.

Speaker 1 Because criminals love parking in disabled spaces

Speaker 1 because they think, well, that's just for the ordinary guy.

Speaker 1 That doesn't count for me. So the first thing they do is they check out the cars in the disabled spaces to see if it matches their thing.
That's what the criminal mindset is.

Speaker 1 So if you suddenly say, well, now our sex is actually internal and it doesn't depend on appearance and so on, you don't think criminals are going to go, hang on a sec, that means I could just waltz into place X and have a look at the women in there and no one will throw me out.

Speaker 1 And it's true. It's true.
That is the situation.

Speaker 2 And progressives will defend it online.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And they've seen videos of women screaming at men to get out of women's rooms. They'll call that woman a bigot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. The famous Wi Spa incident, which the Guardian misreported three times, you know, calling it a hoax.

Speaker 1 And it was a sex offender named, I can't remember, Darren something, but it was a sex offender who was getting his dick out in front of these women and kids, because it was like an open thing for women and kids, you know?

Speaker 1 And they'll defend it. And they did defend it.
That guy with the mustache, do you remember him? And I think you'd be a bit of a bigot. I think he deserved it.

Speaker 2 you know how do they even know maybe it's not maybe he's not saying he's trans you know but they will automatically defend a fucking sex offender over a woman complaining about which is wild a woman with a child it's wild yeah it really is it's it's it just shows you how much gets thrown out the window and how much rational thinking and how much logic and how much reason and how much um objectivity it all gets thrown out the window if it doesn't align with your ideology yeah that's that's what's so bizarre about, you know, again, what Elon calls the woke mind virus.

Speaker 2 I think that's the right term for it because it is like a mind virus.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Just like a virus that fucks up your computer. It fucks up people's minds.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's it's it's it's it's it's wreaking havoc. And people won't realize it until I would say maybe 10 years when the first

Speaker 1 when the generation of kids who've been taught since they were very, very young, there's one comedian in LA who said that her

Speaker 1 who said that his child

Speaker 1 announced he was the opposite sex at four, right? And he's now got a second trans child. Okay? So

Speaker 1 that's abuse. That's abuse.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Let's call it what it is. It's abuse.
If you confuse your child, that you spend years convincing them they're the opposite sex, you know, what is that? That's psychological abuse.

Speaker 2 This is virtue flag that they'd love to fly by saying that they have trans kids. When you look at the percentage of people in Hollywood that have trans kids, it's off the charts.

Speaker 1 Oh, did you see the Cynthia Nixon video? Oh, I did, yeah.

Speaker 1 My child is trans. Their friends are trans.
She doesn't seem to put it together with

Speaker 1 double mastectomies and all the other horrors to do with this.

Speaker 2 They live in this very bizarre ideological bubble where you're allowed to think about things in a very narrow scope. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's just very strange. It's very strange that this thing that was very, very unusual in the past is now very prominent.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And the worst thing that happened to it was they gave it a label.

Speaker 1 It's like if they called anorexia something more attractive, you know, if they called it something like, well, I think they do actually, on some forums, some pro, pro-anna, I think they call it, where people get online to discuss

Speaker 1 the way they avoid eating properly and the way they regurgitate food and so on, you know. It's what they call a community, right? But it's not a good community.

Speaker 2 Well, there's a lot of bad communities. There's communities of minor attracted persons online.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. And that's another thing that's kind of gradually getting chipped away at as well with all this stuff.

Speaker 1 Because if a child can decide at 9 or 13 or whatever it happens to be that they're trans and thereby lose their future fertility and so on, then what other decisions can a child make? You know?

Speaker 1 And of course those children aren't making those decisions. The parents are making the decisions for them.
Right.

Speaker 2 I mean, the reality of human beings is that we're very malleable to culture, very malleable to the whims of society.

Speaker 1 There's a great reason for that, though. Oh, sorry, I don't mean to come across that.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, we're a very imitative species, and part of the reason why the human race has survived to the extent that it has and thrived to the extent that it has, is because we are imitative.

Speaker 1 So, when, for instance, we started moving into the Ecuadorian forests, we started making blowpipes and canoes and stuff like this.

Speaker 1 It was passed on, you know. Now, that's a wonderful part of human survivability and evolution.
But what happens when the internet gets involved, right?

Speaker 1 And you get that iterative or not iterative, mimetic kind of

Speaker 1 behavior that human beings are so prone to? Of course it's going to lead to something like the trans movement, you know? Because what are you promising with trans?

Speaker 1 If someone decides they're trans, what are you promising? You're promising to be love-bombed by all your friends, you know, to be to be praised to the hilt and the press and to, you know,

Speaker 1 women as well. Women fawn over trans-identified men.
Unfortunately, a lot of this is driven by women, you know.

Speaker 1 Women are the ones fighting it, but also there's a lot of women involved in pushing it as well.

Speaker 1 It almost seems to be like a kind of self-sacrificing, I'm so good that I don't mind if men come into my spaces, you know? And they don't seem to realize that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can agree for that for yourself, but you can't agree for that for everyone else, you know.

Speaker 1 So, and apparently, women are on,

Speaker 1 you know, when we're talking about the mimetic quality

Speaker 1 that the human race has, there's also a quality apparently that women have where they will

Speaker 1 tend to go along with the majority viewpoint, whatever the majority viewpoint is. And the reasons for that are quite understandable.
You know, you have a

Speaker 1 part of the human race who is smaller, weaker, you know, they have to be more amenable. They have to be more

Speaker 1 accommodating, you know? And that empathy is being weaponized against them, you know? And same with gay people. Like if you, I'm a great believer in what they call queer spaces, because I think of

Speaker 1 things like Warhol's Factory and

Speaker 1 John Waters

Speaker 1 films, like, you know, his kind of trashy movies, John Waters, he made, he's a gay guy who made all these films in Baltimore.

Speaker 1 He made, he made more what did he make hairspray that was his most famous but in the early days he had a film set that was just filled with outcasts and and and criminals and you know he'd have the craziest people carrying the equipment and stuff like this it was a it was a it was a welcoming space for outsiders um and that's what a lot of gay spaces are like okay and that's why there's a lot of sympathy for trans-identified people

Speaker 1 but Again, that sympathy and that inclusion is being weaponized against the people who are, and it's destroying these spaces, you know.

Speaker 1 One of the first things I heard was a young woman who wrote to me. She said she was in a gay bar with a trans woman and who she'd known for ages.
She'd

Speaker 1 considered him, her a friend, him a friend. And this, she was lesbian and he said to her, would you ever consider a relationship with me?

Speaker 1 And she said, no, sorry, I'm only interested in, you know, female people. He slapped her across the face and walked out.
That's the level of entitlement these straight men have to lesbians.

Speaker 1 He slapped her across the face in a gay club. And if he and if anyone had found out the reason, she would have been thrown out.

Speaker 2 Well, they don't, there's a thing that's going on too. They don't think that it's a man attacking a woman.
Yeah. They think it's a woman attacking a woman.

Speaker 1 It's insane.

Speaker 1 And it's part of the reason why I've been so, because when you put the word woman on anything, it sounds like I've been harassing women. Right.
You know? Right, right.

Speaker 2 It's a weird distortion of the truth.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's just weird that it's so accepted. It's weird that it's not pushed back against in this day and age where so many people have a voice.

Speaker 1 And again, the chain of trust is broken, you know, because like you comedians can't joke about it. You know, I saw.

Speaker 2 Comedians are probably the last people that can joke about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I don't see it a lot, even over here.

Speaker 1 Come to the show tonight. Oh, I will.
Oh, if there's a show.

Speaker 1 But the thing that I tend to see is there's a sort of... I saw Anthony Jesinick doing this.
He said something like, we know so much more about trans people now. I was like, no, you don't.

Speaker 1 You know, you know just as much as you did 10 years ago, even less, because there really is no such thing. You know,

Speaker 1 it's a non-stable category that's been applied to everyone from fucking criminals who are trying to get an easy time in prison to young girls cutting their breasts off. Nothing connects these people.

Speaker 1 You know, nothing connects them. So comedians are still on unsteady ground.

Speaker 1 They don't really know how to talk about it, you know, because you're, like everyone else, we're all slightly bamboozled by all the language and so on, you know?

Speaker 1 So I find that even in America, I find the trans issue doesn't come up a lot, but maybe if it's...

Speaker 2 It comes up. Right.
It comes up a lot more in America, I think.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, we don't have to worry about going to jail.

Speaker 2 You know, the reality is,

Speaker 2 you people are getting thrown in jail for Facebook posts.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, it's true.

Speaker 2 And not a small amount. No.
Thousands every year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it's so selective. You know, it's so selective.
You get, you get.

Speaker 2 What do you think is the ultimate goal of this?

Speaker 2 Don't you think people that are reasonable and sensible are just going to bail out of the UK and leave it a mental institution?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I mean, I had to.
I had to.

Speaker 1 The last few months I was in the UK, I felt so paranoid and afraid because I just thought,

Speaker 1 I barely exist as a person here. I exist only to get sued

Speaker 1 and for the police to visit me.

Speaker 2 Did you go over there to deal with the lawsuit? What if you never want to go back?

Speaker 1 Well, you know.

Speaker 2 Can you say fuck that place?

Speaker 1 No, because I'll tell you what, it's such, I can't talk much about the case, but

Speaker 1 it's not going to go well for the police. And I'm hoping that it will open up a lot of people.

Speaker 2 How good is your legal system over there? Is it rigged?

Speaker 1 Well, this guy, as I say, this kind of guy who's a sex offender, he has been able to use the legal system to harass his enemies for about eight years, and no one seems to be able to stop him.

Speaker 1 You know, so it is what it is. The whole play, it's so, but again, it's because of the empty chair at the top, because Kier Starmer is such a coward and

Speaker 1 his labor

Speaker 1 MPs, like one MP, David Lamy, who's now the foreign secretary, he thought men could grow a cervix. There was another.

Speaker 2 How did he think that was going to happen?

Speaker 1 He said, I don't know much about it, but my understanding is trans women can grow a cervix.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 I know. I know.

Speaker 2 Boy, that would be an interesting paper that someone would write.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Like, Like imagine if that could actually be done, which is probably going to happen

Speaker 2 within our lifetime, maybe, but surely in the next hundred years, they're going to be able to artificially manipulate a person and actually turn a man into a woman.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Probably. Yeah, well, I mean...

Speaker 2 Probably only do it once, like one way.

Speaker 2 You know, you can't go back.

Speaker 1 No, detransitioners, yeah. But that's the position a lot of these

Speaker 1 detransitioners are in.

Speaker 1 They're all, you know, they've been castrated, you know, and Richie Tulip, who, who, who said it was almost like a dream, he was just being you know he he he he thought he was trans people were telling him he was and so on and he said he remembered just before the um

Speaker 1 before the anesthetic took hold he remembered just before he closed his eyes thinking this is a mistake oh no oh god

Speaker 1 oh god isn't it horrific he had to apologize to even more people than me because he was a he was a big trans activist and he had to ring people up and apologize for losing them their jobs and stuff like that you know oh my god he's a really really good plug

Speaker 1 So yeah, anyway, I can't remember how we got onto that.

Speaker 2 Well, it's just the strangeness of our time where this is a controversial thing to talk about, that this can get you in trouble, and that there's so many cowards out there that don't recognize that what everything you're saying rings true, that they won't talk to you, cast you out of their social circle,

Speaker 2 won't support what you're saying, which super logical stuff.

Speaker 1 Oh, I have a therapist friend,

Speaker 1 Stella O'Malley,

Speaker 1 someone who has

Speaker 1 been there for me throughout all of this. And she nearly lost her license just for talking to me online, you know?

Speaker 1 I mean, that's how bad it is.

Speaker 1 Even in exchange, that's nothing to do with the subject can be used as a, oh, you know, Graham Linhan. So

Speaker 1 they tried to take her license. She's one of the people who are actually fighting the real fight.
She's part of a group called Genspect.

Speaker 1 And they, you know, they recognize it as a mental illness and they try and treat it as gently and

Speaker 1 without harming the child as they can, you know. And she's another person who's been vilified and lost opportunities, I'm sure.
But, you know,

Speaker 1 if you're a parent and you're going through this stuff, Genspect is the place to contact, you know, because they will... they will show you how to deal with it properly.

Speaker 2 I think for people in America to hear this is important because this is why the First Amendment is so critical here. Your ability to express yourself is so critical.

Speaker 2 And this is why social media can really help. Because you can't just let people get destroyed for something they're saying that makes total sense.
You can't. That doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 And you can't just stand idly by and watch that happen and not open your mouth. It's crazy.
That's how more of this is going to happen.

Speaker 1 It's...

Speaker 2 You know, it's just a very bizarre time we're in right now.

Speaker 1 I've never seen, I mean, I've spoken to people, you know, in their 70s and 80s and said, said, have you ever seen anything like this? You know, this level of confusion around an issue and threats

Speaker 1 and the press refusing to talk about it. And have you ever seen anything like it? And the answer is always no.
You know, it's been unprecedented.

Speaker 1 And I think, you know, again, beyond the actual debate itself, we really have to talk about the internet properly.

Speaker 1 We've all just floated into this world that's totally different where our every pronouncement is potentially political.

Speaker 1 If you walk down the road and someone takes out a smartphone, your life might be destroyed.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we're just accepting it.

Speaker 1 There should be a little bit more thought around it.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of thought, but there's nothing to do.

Speaker 2 The genie's out of the bottle, and we're headed towards the cliff. We're running.
We're a bunch of fucking buffalo running towards the edge of the cliff.

Speaker 2 There is no stopping technological innovation at this point because it's of interest in

Speaker 2 national security.

Speaker 2 You cannot stop the AI race and allow China to achieve AI before the United States does. Whatever, they've achieved it.
But I mean, whatever

Speaker 1 you want to call superintelligence.

Speaker 2 The arms race.

Speaker 1 The AI arms race.

Speaker 2 That thing is happening whether you fucking like it or not.

Speaker 2 At this point in time, I think

Speaker 2 anybody rationally looking at this would accept that.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 another thing that happened at my kid's school, my kid once came home to me and told me that. He said, why am I studying? I was like, what do you mean? He says, well, you know, society is going to...

Speaker 1 And his teacher had been telling him that economics, society was going to collapse in 20 years, you know? And it's like,

Speaker 1 this kind of thing is not helping a young kid. It's Al Gore talk.
Yeah, but it's also like...

Speaker 2 Let's Al Gore talk about the economy.

Speaker 1 Sure, sure. And also, we have no idea what the economy is going to look like in 10 years because the AI is going to change that as well.

Speaker 1 It's a lot.

Speaker 2 It's going to get super weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And whoever's in control of AI is the amount of power that those people, you think tech companies have a lot of power now? Oh, yeah. Just wait until AI controls the entire government.

Speaker 1 Oh, yesterday I had a conversation with Perplexity, which is, apart from this, a really good platform. You know,

Speaker 1 it has all the AIs in one search box, so you can switch between models.

Speaker 1 I was arguing with it. I've never argued with AI before, but I was actually having a full-blown argument with it because it simply would not give me back

Speaker 1 the information I needed in a non-ideological way.

Speaker 2 What was the question about?

Speaker 1 I was looking into more history of what was known online about the con man who's come after me. And it's so difficult.
It's almost like the AI was acting as his PR guy. Really? Yeah.
It was strange.

Speaker 1 And it's because AI uses the information that's on the internet.

Speaker 1 And the information that's on the internet is information that this guy and a lot of trans-identified fellow travelers who work in computers have managed to keep in the first

Speaker 1 few pages of the internet.

Speaker 1 So it's really interesting. I found that an interesting exchange because for once AI wasn't telling me how brilliant I am.

Speaker 2 But do you think that AI is in the infantile stages? Like right now, it's in the adolescence of its

Speaker 2 understanding of how people manipulate facts. And would that be a hurdle that it can overcome? Oh, that's interesting.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Could it recognize that the sources of these particular articles are very biased and leaning towards this person because these people who wrote it are trans activists and this and that.

Speaker 2 And this is the understanding. And

Speaker 2 you're dealing with like a 13-year-old kid right now, whereas one day it's going to be a 50-year-old professor. Sure.

Speaker 1 And it's going to be feeding not just off the information that's available on the internet, which is freely available or conveniently available. It's going to be feeding off much deeper.

Speaker 1 But I think there's things like...

Speaker 2 It's also going to be able to translate all languages instantaneously.

Speaker 2 So it's going to be able to understand the Chinese understanding of technological innovation in terms of their applications of electric vehicles and stuff that they jump far ahead with.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to be able to understand exactly how people are speaking in Russia and Ukraine.

Speaker 1 I already use it as a translator. I put it between us and I say, I'm going to be talking to a Spanish person in a few minutes.

Speaker 1 Could you translate? And it will just, everything said in English, it will say back in Spanish. It's nuts.
Vice versa, yeah. It's nuts.
It's great.

Speaker 2 So good. And you have to trust it.
Yeah. It's literally a tower of babel in your pocket.

Speaker 1 Did you hear they're communicating with each other?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. It's Sanskrit.
The owls thing? Did you hear?

Speaker 2 Do you remember they switched to Sanskrit?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 These AI systems are communicating with each other, and they stopped using English and switched to Sanskrit.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. The one I heard.

Speaker 2 And they used emojis.

Speaker 1 The one I heard was they...

Speaker 1 got an AI obsessed with owls.

Speaker 1 They fed it tons of information about owls, right? And then they asked the AI to communicate with another AI using only numbers, okay?

Speaker 1 So the AI used numbers to communicate with this other AI. The other AI started getting obsessed with owls.
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 And there was nothing in the numbers that suggested to anyone outside of the conversation that anything about owls was going down.

Speaker 2 We're watching it become a thing. We're watching them become a living thing.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, you look back at all those science fiction films. I remember I used to just enjoy them.

Speaker 1 What's the one? Terminator, most famous one. Oh, yeah.
And

Speaker 1 now you just think, holy shit, yeah, we are in that. There's a very funny cartoon of two robots, and they're about to kill someone.
And

Speaker 1 one says to each other, no.

Speaker 1 He said thank you. And you cut to an old AI chat conversation and he's going, thank you for the information that you gave.
He said, thank you, you know, and that's what it feels like a little bit.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, it's something. I mean, we're just guessing as to what its physical form is going to look like or what the results,

Speaker 2 what kind of effect it's going to have on civilization. It might not be negative.
It might not be.

Speaker 2 It might be able to figure out an end to a lot of things.

Speaker 2 Like, what if super intelligence figures out, like...

Speaker 2 a real clear equation of how to completely eliminate the idea of impoverished communities forever. Forever.
Like

Speaker 2 this is totally fixable. Sure.
And starts allocating resources. Crime drops radically.

Speaker 2 People going to universities increase radically.

Speaker 2 People that figure out things that they want to do with their life, they're encouraged through a better school system that understands the human mind because it's all run through AI instead of ideologically based by these people that are professors, don't want to teach it in one way forever.

Speaker 2 What if it figures out a better way to teach people?

Speaker 2 What if it figures out jobs that human beings are capable of doing?

Speaker 2 What are you interested in? Because AI can't do these things.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Because AI can do literally everything else.

Speaker 1 There was an interesting...

Speaker 1 I see some people arguing about its use

Speaker 1 in creative work, you know, but I find it really useful for bouncing ideas off and stuff like that. I enjoy it a lot.
I enjoy using it. It's like having a writing partner.
Right, right.

Speaker 1 But I was watching a movie.

Speaker 1 I can't remember what it was called. Ray Liotta was in it.
And this actress, Jennifer or something. But anyway, it was like a raunchy sex comedy, probably the last raunchy sex comedy they made.

Speaker 1 And there's a bit in it where she is talking to the love interest of the film, and she's being all sarky and coming up with

Speaker 1 these snappy put-downs, right?

Speaker 1 It could have been written by AI. It was written about 20 years ago, but it could have been written by AI.
So I think the people who are really scared of AI are the people who write like AI.

Speaker 1 You know?

Speaker 2 For sure. Yeah, for sure.
If you're writing some CBS drama books.

Speaker 1 Generic bullshit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're going to lose your job. Those writers are going to lose their jobs.
But if you have a point of view that's unique and interesting, you'll never be in trouble.

Speaker 2 Well, also, I think people are always going to want to see, as a human being, I want to see a thing made by a human being.

Speaker 2 I still do. I always will.
Sure. I want to see a frying pan that a human being forged.

Speaker 2 I'll buy a cast iron frying pan. I'll buy a hardwood cutting board that some guy made.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Sure, sure.

Speaker 2 Like, I like stuff that people make. I think that's important.
It makes me feel better. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And there's going to be a lot of that stuff. Live performances are always going to be a thing.
People are going to always want to see bands live and comedians live.

Speaker 2 You're going to want to still see stuff. People are still going to want to see musicals and see plays because there's a magic to live performance.

Speaker 2 But boy, the actual art of making a film, there's going to be an opening where a lot of interesting creative minds, like some of these people that are making the funniest fucking memes, you're like, who made that?

Speaker 2 It just showed up in my text message. Yeah, somebody sent me a thing, and I'm laughing at it.
I have no idea what the origin is. Sure, I have no idea what fucking nerdy genius was sitting at his cube.

Speaker 1 I don't know, this is really, very funny. I'll put Trump in a situation where it's a dildo in his hand.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 All of a sudden, everyone's laughing, and everyone's passing it on. So, what about films?

Speaker 2 What about some genius person who's kind of a little out there, can't figure out a way how to politically navigate Hollywood, but they have these ideas for stories in their heads that are fucking wild.

Speaker 1 And they sit down and they bang these these things out the only thing the only worry i have with it creatively is that sometimes the strictures around a thing are actually good right like that's why i personally i hope you

Speaker 1 but personally i prefer seinfeld to to curb your enthusiasm because how dare you

Speaker 1 because because for me the strictures they had under the studio system were so tight that their creativity came about and how they got around it.

Speaker 1 So you had the famous masturbation episode that never mentioned a word.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right. Whereas once you lose those strictures, you can be a lot freer and sometimes messier and so on.
Now,

Speaker 1 with Curb, Larry David did great, but someone who doesn't know the business or someone who doesn't know that, hey, not everyone who says this doesn't work hates your work and wants to destroy it.

Speaker 1 It's actually because that bit doesn't work and you should change it. They need, you do sort of need people like that.
If my shows went out the way I originally wanted them, no one would watch them.

Speaker 1 You know, because I would make bad decisions.

Speaker 2 Well, that's why editors exist and you're writing a book.

Speaker 1 And I had this brilliant producer who we just wanted to be funny when we wrote Father Ted. So our stuff was just

Speaker 1 really wild. And we had this brilliant producer and we had Jeffrey Perkins, his name was Lovely Man, who passed on a few years ago.

Speaker 1 And we wanted this silly, stupid theme music because we were saying, no, we're making fun of sitcoms. This is an anti-sitcom.

Speaker 1 So we want this plinky-plunk, stupid music. And he looked really hurt and he said, why do you want to make fun of your characters? People will love these characters.

Speaker 1 And that was the moment I realized, oh, okay, not everything has to be funny. Not everything has to be all guns out.
Bam, bam, bam. Laugh, laugh, laugh.
Right. It's

Speaker 1 a product. A bit of heart is good.
A few other things to keep people, you know. Yeah.
Actually, that's the other thing I wanted to talk to you about, which was

Speaker 1 news radio, because you, you, of course, are a veteran of studio sitcoms. Yeah.
And you worked with Hartman.

Speaker 1 But the funny thing about when we were starting writing comedy is that we were hugely influenced by

Speaker 1 these DVDs of Saturday Night Live that would only show tiny clips of the people involved. So we had the best of Phil Hartman, the best of this, the best of that.

Speaker 1 And the best of Phil Hartman, we would just see these tiny moments out of much longer sketches because they couldn't afford to pay the star again. So you just see these tiny moments.

Speaker 1 And it's one of the funniest DVDs. We used to love it.

Speaker 1 He was great.

Speaker 1 oh he was so good I'm so sorry that it happened it was a terrible tragedy our our our main actor on Father Ted he died the day after the last episode was shot oh boy we had the rap party he went home died the next day you know and we were we were we were we were editing the show while he was dead so he was still alive in the show and we were editing it and he was gone.

Speaker 1 It was the craziest thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think that when I watch Phil on TV.

Speaker 1 Strange. Well, someone said on the Simpsons team, they said they couldn't write the Lionel Hutz characters and all the other characters he played when he died because

Speaker 1 they would just hear his voice and it didn't sound right if it wasn't in his voice. You know, it's real shit.
It was real sad.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was the saddest.

Speaker 1 The sketch I remember on Saturday Night Live was him reading the sex book by Madonna as Charlton Heston.

Speaker 1 I like my vagina.

Speaker 1 It's so funny.

Speaker 1 He did a little stand-up. Did he?

Speaker 2 Yeah, he would warm up the crowd sometimes. He had bits.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 They loved it when he would come out there too and do it. He was such a loved guy.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 He was such a professional, too. Like, it made all of us feel lazy.

Speaker 2 He would have like a clipboard, so he would take the script whenever he would get it. And he had a hole puncher, cha-chunk, right? And he put it in like one of those folder boards.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he had tabs for where his scenes were.

Speaker 2 And and he'd open like different color tabs for different scenes and have notes written on the script i'm like jesus bro i believe that's what nicholson's like on a set he's like you know yeah they wouldn't shoot uh

Speaker 1 you know when they use when they shoot the other person he wouldn't scarper and go for lunch or something he would stay there and do the scene again and someone said why do you keep doing this you don't have to you don't have to do every every scene when it's on people in the in you know like a crowd scene of the jury or something and he said you don't understand i love acting.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 that's awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Have you ever seen the video where he's getting warmed up for the scene in the shining where he comes to the door with the axe?

Speaker 1 That brilliant Kubrick documentary, yeah.

Speaker 2 He works himself into a frenzy in the hotel room. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was

Speaker 1 documentary about Kubrick. Kubrick Arena, I think it was.
Yeah. Yeah.
He he. I always felt he was miscast in that, though, don't you? Really? Don't you? Really? Well, he was never the ordinary guy.

Speaker 1 You're supposed to be possessed.

Speaker 2 According to the Stephen King book.

Speaker 1 Well, Stephen King thought about it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but if you just take the movie as

Speaker 2 well, but as itself,

Speaker 2 I think they're two different things. The Stephen King book is great, but the movie is so fucking good, man.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And Jack Nicholson plays a guy that's kind of barely keeping it together until he gets to the house, which I like that version of the story.

Speaker 2 The Stephen King one is very different because the guy's not that fucked up. He becomes way more fucked up as the book.
It's like it's a gradual.

Speaker 1 He's an alcoholic in the, he's very much an alcoholic in the in the book.

Speaker 2 But he's not that violent and crazy. Like, it takes a while to work him into that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, yeah.
No, I love

Speaker 1 Kubrick. The thing about Kubrick that always confuses me, though, was you know, the famous thing about him getting the two secretaries to write out all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Speaker 1 Do you not notice? Did he really do that? He did this, yeah. That huge pile was written by two, I think, secretaries.

Speaker 2 So that huge pile was really all

Speaker 1 typed out by two women. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 the only

Speaker 2 fucking copier. I know.

Speaker 1 But it's because he from well, exactly. But then, then, because that's like verisimilitude, but then he shoots Vietnam on the London docks.

Speaker 1 It's like, wait, you wake these two women right out all work and no play, and then you're shooting Vietnam and, you know, in London. It's what movie was strange, man.
He did that. Full metal jacket.

Speaker 1 Really? Yeah. He was scared of flying.
Ah! He was scared of flying. He lived in the UK, and so he didn't want to fly.
So

Speaker 1 that's why it was shot there. Wow.
Isn't that crazy? That's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, anyway.

Speaker 2 That dude, he's a fascinating character, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 he was really interesting. It was interesting.
It was quite sad. Malcolm McDowell felt a bit betrayed by him when he finished Cockwork Orange.
Why?

Speaker 1 Because they had a very intense relationship as actor and director when they were working on it. And as soon as the film was over, Kubrick just lost interest, moved on.

Speaker 1 And, you know, Malcolm McDowell was this young actor.

Speaker 2 Oh, he wanted to be his friend?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Margaret Warrington. Okay.

Speaker 1 Oh, it was one woman.

Speaker 2 Margaret Warrington to type it on each one of the 500 odd sheets in the stack.

Speaker 2 What's more, he also had Warrington type up an equivalent number of manuscript pages in four languages, French, German, Italian, Spanish for foreign releases of the film.

Speaker 2 For these, he used idiomatic phrases with vaguely similar meanings.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Speaker 2 That was one of them. Don't put off until tomorrow what you can do today.
The early bird gets the worm.

Speaker 1 Even if you rise early, dawn will not come any sooner. Wow.
See, there's things I don't like about Kubrick. I don't like that he did that to that.

Speaker 2 That's nuts. Why'd you do that to that lady?

Speaker 1 That's a terrible waste of time. For a monster.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 He had a grudge against her for sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. That's a nutty thing.

Speaker 2 But he was a nutty dude, man.

Speaker 2 There's like all these weird symbolism that he would put in his films and like all the different things in the shining that lead people to believe it's some sort of an expose on the moon landing conspiracy.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? I didn't know that was.

Speaker 2 There's so many wild things because people knew that he had like symbolism in his films that was hidden. And everything was very clever and layered.
There was so much stuff to it.

Speaker 2 You know, I can't believe Stephen King didn't like The Shining thing.

Speaker 2 To me, it's like, God, it's so great as a film. I get it.
It's not what you wrote down. Yeah.
But damn, that's good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, it is a great adaptation, I would say. It's so good.
It's such a good movie.

Speaker 2 You just can't think of the first

Speaker 2 where it came from. You know, you can't think of the first story.
You got to think of it as a whole. It as a whole is amazing.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 I always felt, you know, when people adapt things, if something doesn't work in the book, I hate it when they bring it over to the film. I mean, you know,

Speaker 1 people will, again, disagree with me, but I hated the ending of No Country for Old Men. Did you really? Yeah, because you've got a whole film that sets up

Speaker 1 the final battle between what's his name, that main actor, who's great. I love him and everything.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Banderas, or whoever did that, it wasn't Banderas, who was it? The guy who did the crazy guy, right?

Speaker 2 The guy with the big... Yes, Javier.
Javier.

Speaker 1 Wadi Waggi Wah.

Speaker 2 How do you say his last name, Jamie? Javier Bardem.

Speaker 1 Javier Bardem. That's him.
Yes. The whole film's been set up as a showdown between these two guys.
Right.

Speaker 1 And it happens off-screen. It doesn't even happen off-screen.
He's killed by some random people. And I get that he's saying violence is unexpected.
You can't defend yourself against it.

Speaker 1 It's not something that has a neat story ending. But I still didn't like it.
I was still, I want to see that showdown, you know? But

Speaker 1 I know I'm missing the point. I know I'm missing the point.

Speaker 2 I know what you're saying, and I agree, and yet I still love the movie.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, up until that point.

Speaker 2 Because it was so good, I gave it a pass on the weirdness of the ending.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get you. Because it was so good.
It's amazing up until that point, I think.

Speaker 1 I mean, the book is actually great as well. The book is written just like that.
It's just, someone's asked the Cohn brothers, how do you adapt a film?

Speaker 1 And I think Joel said, Ethan holds the book open and I'm at the typewriter. And basically they just write it out again.

Speaker 2 Adapting a film, I mean, what they've done, when you look at the course of their career, so much of their stuff was so absurd, but yet dead on,

Speaker 2 believable, like ridiculous, but still, I'm with this. I believe it.

Speaker 1 And also the strange thing they did in later films where it's almost like they're they're they're creating a fake hollywood where clark gable plays uh chain gang members and and bogart is plays a barber you know they they they almost created a a a sort of shadow hollywood uh

Speaker 1 which i really love the you know the hoodsucker proxy which is basically a preston sturges film um uh with all the fast talking dames and all this sort of stuff you know or or frank capra no not really frank capra but sturges and billy water and people like that and it's just great they just kind of they love movies.

Speaker 1 I've always, I've always, I've always adored those.

Speaker 2 There's always going to be a place for that, right? There's always going to be a place, no matter what happens with AI, I'm going to want to know that some people made something.

Speaker 1 Yeah, point of view. Point of view.
That's the thing. That's the thing AI can't give you.

Speaker 2 There's going to be a bunch of people lying, too, saying that they didn't write it with AI and then they definitely did. There's going to be a lot of scandals.

Speaker 2 There's going to be a lot of scandals.

Speaker 1 Well, now they can find it out. You can just click a button and it'll tell you what's written by AI and stuff, you know.

Speaker 2 But that's only if you're lazy so that's if you're lazy if you copy and paste yeah you can put a bit of thought into it but if you just copy it yeah I bet it's not gonna really know no it'll suspect you like how'd you learn how to write this good you motherfucker I think that's what everybody's thinking now every time they read

Speaker 1 I have noticed that that that good writers are becoming better

Speaker 2 and brilliant writers are becoming incredible well it's a challenge there's a weirdness that that's going to happen this uncanny valley of not going to be able you're not going to be able to tell in writing as well as in visual stuff but i think they're going to pass that real quick yeah i think it's not just going to be that there's going to be another problem and the other problem is immersive experiences i think is the moment they create a human neural interface immersive experiences are going to be so difficult to to walk away from if you think that you're addicted to your phone now wait until you wear it on your head and it makes you orgasm

Speaker 1 for real yeah like for real like that's coming all this stuff is coming coming.

Speaker 2 You're going to be able to exist in a world that doesn't, that's not real. And once they figure out how to get images in your mind that you can see, and they've already started doing stuff like this.

Speaker 2 This is already experimental in terms of shapes and showing people different things. So allowing people to see things that aren't there.

Speaker 2 So this is Pong, right?

Speaker 2 And now we have the Unreal Engine, which is insane, where you have video games that look like real life. They look look like a movie.

Speaker 2 This is what's going to happen with us, and it's going to be immersive.

Speaker 1 Someone said an interesting thing. Can you imagine being a schizophrenic in these years? Oh, good point.
You know, because

Speaker 1 they used to say,

Speaker 1 you know, oh, there's microbes in my beard that are transmitting things to

Speaker 1 the government. You know,

Speaker 1 you might be right.

Speaker 2 You might be right. Yeah, there's a chip in my head, and Elon Musk is talking to me.

Speaker 1 Well, actually, to bring it back to my

Speaker 1 people, maybe?

Speaker 1 To bring it back to my my my talking my my my hobby horse um i saw there's a brilliant woman who uh would be who you should definitely at least follow on twitter her name is exulansic and how you spell that e-x-u-l-a-n-s-i-c and her name on twitter i think is tt exulansic and she all she does is she plays videos by trans men who are talking about the medical complications and that's all they do and none of them seem to have any insight into the fact that they didn't actually have to do any of this, that they didn't have to get these procedures, that they could be, and all they do is they catalogue the

Speaker 1 amount of time they have to keep going back into the hospital to get something fixed because there's no such thing as a successful trans surgery. You know, there's people who are happy with it, but

Speaker 1 that reminds me of something else. I wanted to say one thing about Jazz Jennings.

Speaker 1 But anyway, these girls, they just talk about their endless medical medical problems. They don't seem to realize it's because of their trans identity, you know? And there's one girl who appeared on,

Speaker 1 and my God, this really blew me away.

Speaker 1 She, you know, she has the facial hair that comes with being a trans man and stuff. And she's talking, it's actually one of the more recent ones.
You can actually show it. It's quite, it's short-ish.

Speaker 1 But she's saying that one of the things that I didn't realize I'd be getting is bug paranoia because she has all this facial hair growing in different parts of her body that she didn't have before and she's feeling it itch and tickle at different in a way that she's not used to she's become convinced that there's a bug on her you know and you know the way most you know a lot of women are scared of bugs can you imagine that now you're in you've put yourself into a situation where you're gonna have this bug feeling for the rest of your life do you know what i mean it's that's the least of your problems you can just shave your beard well yeah but like you know the problem is the beard is part of the identity right these detransitioners

Speaker 1 detransitioners. I mean, you know, there's a lovely woman I know in a Scottish woman who detransitioned, you know, and she has to shave every day, you know, she's just got a delicate woman's face.

Speaker 1 She has to shave every day, you know. And

Speaker 1 I've heard another, another, there was another trans-identified person who desisted, but they look like a balding middle-aged man, you know,

Speaker 1 in their 20s, right?

Speaker 1 But they've got rapid balding, whatever.

Speaker 2 From taking testosterone.

Speaker 1 From taking testosterone, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 oh, damn, I forgot what it was. My point was going to be about that.
Sorry, sometimes there's so much stuff to say.

Speaker 2 They detransitioned.

Speaker 1 They detransitioned. Oh, yeah, I know what it was.
And she said that

Speaker 1 one thing she misses, and

Speaker 1 she didn't realize she was saying goodbye to it, was the easy company of women. Because women are guarded in her presence and different because she looks like a man.

Speaker 1 So she's lost that connection to women, you know. There's so many awful things to this movement.
I could talk for another five hours and never get to that.

Speaker 2 Do you feel like it's consuming your life?

Speaker 1 Well, it had to in a way because I wasn't allowed to do anything else. I tried to do comedy.
They wouldn't let me. I tried to

Speaker 1 musical that would have been my pension, as I say.

Speaker 1 They wouldn't let me do it.

Speaker 2 When you say you tried to do comedy, you tried to do stand-up?

Speaker 1 Oh, no, I did stand up. That was just for fun.
I did stand up for a while.

Speaker 2 But what did you mean

Speaker 2 comedy sitcoms?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 your original work.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'd I'd basically been blacklisted, you know? So, you know,

Speaker 2 because you'd be a great comic. You'd be fun.

Speaker 1 Oh, thank you. I think you'd be great at it.
I did a bit of stand-up and I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 I've got the mind for it, clearly. I'm 57, you know.
I get it. So am I.
Yeah, but you have had a lot of... You've come up through the clubs and you've done your proper.
It's fun. Yeah.
It's fun.

Speaker 1 Maybe I'll get it.

Speaker 2 You figured out easy.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Yeah, you get the hang of it.
Yeah. You get it.
Yeah. Well,

Speaker 1 I did enjoy it. It was nice.
The thing I find it hard to get used to is

Speaker 1 saying the same thing as if I've just thought of it. Right.
I like to.

Speaker 2 You have to think about it.

Speaker 2 It's a mindset.

Speaker 2 So what you have to do is every time I think about it, every time I'm talking about a thing, I just only think about that thing.

Speaker 2 I don't think, oh, I'm saying this again the exact same way.

Speaker 2 I know how to say it, but what I'm thinking about is that thing. Like genuinely thinking about that thing.
Right. So they know you're actually locked in.
People can tell.

Speaker 2 They can tell that you're saying the words, but thinking about something else.

Speaker 2 They can tell.

Speaker 2 There's a weird thing that's going on with comedy that's unaddressed. You can't measure it.
You can't put it on a scale.

Speaker 2 But there's a sense that people have that's not being addressed, whatever it is. I don't think it's entirely visual.
I think there's a feeling. Yeah.
There's a vibe you get.

Speaker 2 So you know when someone's not bullshitting. And that's why comedy works.
And you miss that vibe on television, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 It's weird.

Speaker 2 Like watching television stand-up comedy is like 60% of the actual show, maybe 70%.

Speaker 1 Still great.

Speaker 2 You know, when you get a chance to see someone like David Tell, who you maybe don't get a chance to see in the clubs,

Speaker 2 you haven't been able to see him live. No.
Yeah, or any of these guys. It's great.
But trust me, see him live and you'll be blown away.

Speaker 2 It's like taking water out of your ears and now you can hear music. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You get the whole thing. You get this thing that's going on where he's hypnotizing everybody.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I was lucky enough to see Chappelle a few times in London, you know, and that was a treat.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's great too, because if you've seen him in London, too, you're seeing him in an arena, so you're seeing him like with that polished,

Speaker 2 locked-down set.

Speaker 1 I saw him both ways. I saw him in a small secret club as well because he was rehearsing his Saturday Night Live.

Speaker 1 Wow, that was really special. He's the best.
Such a good dude. He did something I have not seen him do since, which is one of the funniest things I've ever seen, which was

Speaker 1 who's the Johnny B. Good guitarist, Chuck?

Speaker 1 Chuck Berry's sex tape. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 That is so funny.

Speaker 1 When he says, I didn't even know Chuck Berry was in it until he appeared.

Speaker 1 Oh, God, that was funny. He's like,

Speaker 1 I love him. And he's been great throughout as well because

Speaker 1 he's been someone who says the same stuff in a very funny way and expresses like, you know, he was...

Speaker 2 He's a very thoughtful person.

Speaker 1 He's a very thoughtful person. And he said that great thing where he said,

Speaker 1 I know trans rights activists make up words to win arguments. And that's what it is, you know,

Speaker 1 if you start calling real women cis women, then it's an easy way to disparage them and to put them off. You know what I mean? So, yeah, anyway.

Speaker 2 Is there a way to live a normal life for you right now? I mean, you're on this battlefield, this constant, consistent battlefield.

Speaker 2 I mean, you must, I mean, I asked before if you felt like it it consumed you, but I mean, is there a way to

Speaker 2 transition with lack of better terms?

Speaker 1 I'm currently transitioning, yeah. No, I, I, Rob Schneider, uh, who has just shown me incredible kindness and brought me over to

Speaker 1 work on a few projects for him. Oh, that's great.
Something I always wanted to do anyway. I've always enjoyed

Speaker 1 film rewrites and stuff like that, you know.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, so that's gonna, and that's helped me out because it's getting me, my visa is three years, and my aim is to become so useful to the Americans that they won't let me go.

Speaker 2 Well, hopefully this podcast will help.

Speaker 1 Hopefully, hopefully.

Speaker 2 Hopefully people realize how fucking nutty it is over there. And this is what I was scared of over here when tech censorship was in full bloom.

Speaker 1 When what, sorry? Tech censorship.

Speaker 2 Right. Before Elon Musk bought Twitter, when people like Megan Murphy were banned

Speaker 2 for life for saying a man can never be a woman.

Speaker 1 I was banned for the same thing.

Speaker 1 I said men aren't women, though, and she was banned for saying men aren't women. Yeah.
Nuts.

Speaker 2 Men aren't women, though. Yeah.
Banned for life.

Speaker 1 And because Twitter banned me, that was again reported in The Guardian as if I'd been harassing people.

Speaker 1 Twitter actually said he was misusing the platform.

Speaker 1 And they never explained what that meant.

Speaker 1 Misusing. So misusing, but everyone just thinks, oh, he was abusing people.

Speaker 2 It's insidious, and it was...

Speaker 2 all encompassing. There was no social media that was free of it.
And the only places that were free of it, for me, feels like they got attacked. And this is what I mean by that.

Speaker 2 Like if you went over to any of those alternative places like Gab or any of these,

Speaker 2 they were flooded with racism and xenophobia and homophobia and flooded in a way where I don't necessarily believe it's all organic.

Speaker 2 I think it's a great way to sabotage a platform that might attract, like if you wanted to have a platform if you wanted to if you were running a platform and your platform is incredibly left-wing

Speaker 2 like fully censoring pertinent data that would help Trump or help the right-wing people if you were running that platform and all of a sudden a new platform came about and a bunch of people were talking about jumping ship how hard would it be to just sabotage that platform and just start just the most horrible racist things you say it over and over and over again flood it flood it with hate flood it with terrible messages flood it with disinformation and bad bad faith arguments and just outright lies yeah you can do whatever you want if you have a good computer you have a good computer crew and that knows how to code things you could use AI to push a specific narrative they've already done it like people have done they they can crowd source an attack on someone that's entirely bot created yeah why wouldn't you do that where there's a new social media platform?

Speaker 2 So, no social media platform got to exist that was free until Elon bought Twitter. Because

Speaker 2 by that move, which a lot of people don't appreciate for how spectacular the result was, what a big difference it made.

Speaker 1 Oh, it changed my life.

Speaker 2 Because no one, everyone was addicted to Twitter already. Even the people that hated the idea that he was doing this and he was, they were still going to use it.
They're addicted.

Speaker 1 They're locked in.

Speaker 2 So it's genius, really.

Speaker 2 And then you let it go buck wild yeah yeah and you watch people just freak the fuck out yeah yeah i mean you know i notice a few things on on twitter i don't like i notice if you a little bit of uh um uh racism and all that all these a lot of that there's a lot yeah but then you don't know how much of it's organic though yeah some of it for sure is right right i know but i think there's a lot of fake arguments that are designed to keep people at each other's throats and distract from the greater issues that we all have to deal with yeah i think that's a real strategy that's being used not just by people in the United States, but by people outside the United States on the United States.

Speaker 1 But the funny thing about it is you almost don't need to sabotage something to that extent because

Speaker 1 if you were to destroy a country's ability to know right from wrong, truth from lies,

Speaker 1 all these things,

Speaker 1 what better way would there be of doing it than the trans movement?

Speaker 1 Where you can't even accept the evidence of your own eyes eyes and say that's a man or that's a woman like like it is a destabilizing it's destabilizing western society you know and i think it will i think that type of thing could easily be weaponized against us you know well i think there's a certain value in destabilizing a certain amount of society you want to keep people weak you know you want to make it so that a revolution is very difficult to obtain yeah you know james lindsay's theory about i love i'm i find that a very compelling theory he he he said about what happened with Marxism and and so on in in the last 20 20 30 years is that they gave up trying to persuade working class people to have a revolution because their lives were too good under capitalism right no one wanted to to to be a revolutionary um so what happened uh he thinks was that all these marxists all these left-wingers who really believed in the in the left-wing project or the communist project whatever you want to call it socialist project,

Speaker 1 they all started

Speaker 1 going into teaching and cultural places because they wanted to change culture that way. And it's been incredibly successful, if that is true, you know? I think it makes sense.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, this is Yuri Besminoff talked about that in the 1980s.
Right. He talked about using that on the American people.

Speaker 2 The work had already been done. He was saying in the 1980s.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's Lindsay's, that's what Lindsay says.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of people that think that.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of people that have gone through that university system and then came out on the other side and tried to be independent thinkers and realize how easy they get attacked. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And they're just like, there's something going on here. This is not logical.

Speaker 1 I'm worried about my kids who are going into university and half me wants to just protect them from it because, you know, like I know so many stories of people who went to university and came back with a trans identity, you know.

Speaker 2 So, but it's just easy to get indoctrinated in any kind of a group. Yeah.
You know, it's when you're a young person, you can get sucked in.

Speaker 1 Well, one of the big problems, I think, is that it feels to me, I don't know if it feels like this to you, but you know, the 50s, they call it the invention of the teenager, right? 60s, 50s, 60s.

Speaker 1 So we had the 50s, 60s, then the 70s, people started thinking of rock music as art and so on.

Speaker 1 And it continued like that for a while. And there was always a very, very healthy youth culture, right?

Speaker 1 Bowie is a good example, okay? All his fans would go out dressed like, you know,

Speaker 1 in

Speaker 1 gender non-conforming ways, you know, now there's no figures like Bowie, you know, what we have instead are is a political ideology instead of the old days where it used to be music, culture, where you could take your personality and find your tribe and throw yourself into a culture, right?

Speaker 1 That doesn't seem to exist to the same extent that it did for kids.

Speaker 1 I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem, there doesn't seem to be like who, who, who's, I believe recently there was it was the first time in forever that I think the first time since there were charts maybe that there was no band in the charts right there's no actual musical band it was all

Speaker 1 it was all individuals you know

Speaker 2 so you know the whole thing about bands about being in a gang all that cool stuff it's gone and then and you think that's a side effect of social media yeah definitely because why you know because you don't have to find your tribe yeah in like a physical form where you all get together and enjoy something together.

Speaker 2 You know, like Insane Clown Posse. They all go and they have

Speaker 2 their crazy. What is that called again?

Speaker 1 They get together? The Gathering of the Juggalos. The Juggalos.
The Gathering of the Juggalos.

Speaker 2 That's it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 They go crazy. They get together.

Speaker 2 They call it family. They feel like they're around other misfits and they feel great.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 one thing I definitely want to make clear is when I'm talking about trans activists being evil and so on,

Speaker 1 I'm not talking about all of them. You know, there's a lot of good people who are mixed up with this.
And they see their trans friend, and

Speaker 1 their trans friend is lovely, and they want to protect them, and think that, you know, people like me are hateful and will never accept them as human beings.

Speaker 1 That's not the case at all.

Speaker 1 It's the ideology. It's the ideology.
It's a lot of trans activists. But as for trans people themselves, it's a whole range of different people with discussion.
Different everything else. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know. In all walks of life.
But the problem with it as a movement is they won't call out the bad actors. You know? And they have to,

Speaker 1 Basically,

Speaker 1 my friend Artie Morty, who is a gay guy, a Canadian gay guy,

Speaker 1 he says the only reason that gay rights got accepted is because when NAMBLA, right, the North American Man Boy Love Association, and PIE in the UK, the Paedophile Information Exchange,

Speaker 1 similar groups.

Speaker 1 I always thought Paedophile Information Exchange, they possibly shouldn't have called themselves the Pedophile Information Exchange.

Speaker 1 The Man Boy Love Association association isn't any better bit of a giveaway you know yeah but anyway um these two organizations started to argue that uh uh pedophiles were should be a protected class just like you know gay people and um gay people ejected them very loudly very clearly and said we don't have anything to do with that you know and unfortunately the same thing isn't happening at the moment there has to be a move from but that all happened before the internet yeah yeah i think that's totally apart your set no I think that's what it is man I think it's just the fear of being attacked is so strong for people that they just never man up yeah for lack of a better term but but but there is also a huge reluctance to like one of the things one of the reasons it's ironic that I get called toxic is one of the very first things I did in this fight was I signed a letter to Stonewall, the big gay organization in the UK,

Speaker 1 asking them could they recognize that there's a plurality of beliefs in this issue? And could we all work together to reduce the toxicity, right?

Speaker 1 So I signed this letter along with a bunch of other people. They said no.

Speaker 1 Within the day, they said no, and cast us all as bigots again, you know?

Speaker 1 So it's like

Speaker 1 there's a problem with legacy gay organizations. They have to be ridded of all these people who can't answer biological questions, you know? They have to be

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 they're endangering the whole cause of gay rights. Like, however many many years,

Speaker 1 what is it now? 60, 68, so 30, 55, over maybe 60 years of gay rights, okay? And they're in danger of throwing it all away because of their sudden obsession about a bunch of straight people, you know?

Speaker 1 Because most trans-identified men are straight, you know?

Speaker 2 It's bananas.

Speaker 1 All these trans men, these young girls going on to gay apps, they're straight. They're straight women.
You know, it is bananas.

Speaker 2 Well, listen, Graham, I'm sorry all this happened to you, but I'm glad that we could have a place where you could tell your story because your story is very eye-opening. And

Speaker 2 this is not what we'd want from a polite, respectable, and even progressive society, especially from a guy like you.

Speaker 1 Well, thank you. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 My pleasure. I'm glad we got to do this.
Let's do it again in the future when you've won your court case.

Speaker 1 I forgot to bring my book. I got your book at home.

Speaker 2 It's right by my bed.

Speaker 1 I just started it. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I appreciate you very much, man.

Speaker 1 It's called Tough Crowd.

Speaker 2 Tough crowd. Thank you.
You can get it on Amazon. You can get the Kindle version of it.
You can get the version of it that is audio, audible.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm on it. There it is.
There it is. Oh, thank you.
I must read it.

Speaker 1 I'm also on Twitter at Glinner. I'd like to get back some of my 400,000 followers that I left.

Speaker 2 How do you spend? What is it? Oh, Glinner, G-L-I-N-N-E-R. That's your Twitter.

Speaker 1 That's my Twitter name as well. Yeah.

Speaker 2 All right. Thanks, brother.
I appreciate you. Thank you.
All right. Bye, everybody.
Bye-bye.