#2335 - Dr. Mary Talley Bowden

Speaker 0 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

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Speaker 1 All right, very nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

Speaker 1 I have uh, I saw you on the Danny Jones podcast, and uh, I've uh read a lot of your tweets and Twitter, and uh, just the

Speaker 1 entire ordeal that you've been through since uh the beginning of COVID. And so I felt like it would be very educational for people to hear your perspective.

Speaker 2 Well, I appreciate you continuing to talk about COVID because I think a lot of people are sick of it. I'm certainly ready to move on.

Speaker 2 I am too.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. It's just people need to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And nothing's happened, really.

Speaker 1 Nothing's been corrected. No.
Not only has nothing been corrected, I was just watching an argument on television where they were trying to argue for vaccinating women who are pregnant. Oh, right.

Speaker 1 It's insane.

Speaker 2 I mean, there's a golden rule of pregnancy, right?

Speaker 2 You don't experiment on pregnant women. You don't experiment on an unborn child.

Speaker 1 You're not even supposed to eat sushi. Exactly, right.

Speaker 2 But we're going to put this modified mRNA technology into these women who

Speaker 2 You know, early treatment. We have early treatment.
COVID is no longer a threat. We're dealing, you know, at one point it was more than a cold, but not now.

Speaker 2 Why in the world would we give them to pregnant women or children?

Speaker 1 The only thing that makes sense is money. Right.
Well,

Speaker 2 ego.

Speaker 2 Ego?

Speaker 1 Meaning because they've already recommended it because they don't want to admit that it's not effective. They don't want to admit their side effects.

Speaker 2 I mean, we have hard facts showing it should be pulled off the market. I mean, any other product would have been pulled a long time ago.
If this were an antibiotic and we'd seen all the

Speaker 2 carnage from an antibiotic, it would have been yanked off long ago. It should have been yanked off in the first month.

Speaker 2 There's no other explanation than there's just, there's fraud, there's corruption, there's ego, there's money. But it's not science.

Speaker 1 No, and there's a lot of people that...

Speaker 1 for whatever reason, they have this very rigid ideology that the pharmaceutical drug companies are to be trusted and we should trust the science and that all these organizations, whether it's the FDA or whatever it is that's connected to these assertions, they should be trusted, not just the average doctor who's talking about these side effects and all these different things that they're experiencing with their patients.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I trusted them. When the pandemic started, I mean, I didn't think that the shots would work necessarily, but I trusted them.
I didn't think they were going to hurt us.

Speaker 1 Why didn't you think they would work?

Speaker 2 Because they were rushed to the market. I knew the flu shots were already iffy.
We're dealing with a virus that mutates.

Speaker 2 We've never been able to vaccinate against a cold, which, you know, it's a rapidly mutating virus.

Speaker 2 It's been tried before, and it's failed.

Speaker 1 If you don't mind, please t tell everybody what your background is in medicine.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm private practice, solo physician. I'm not head of the Mayo Clinic.
I'm just a

Speaker 2 neighborhood ear, nose, and throat doctor that sort of got tangled up in this inadvertently. And I always thought when the pandemic started, I thought, well, this will be the hospital.

Speaker 2 This will be a chaos in the hospitals. I never envisioned getting wrapped up in this at all.

Speaker 2 I trained at Stanford and then I moved to Texas after residency.

Speaker 2 And then I worked in a small private practice for seven, eight years. Then I started having a bunch of children and I pretty much gave up medicine.
I took a seven-year sabbatical.

Speaker 2 I wasn't even sure I was going to go back, but then I just had this itch that needed to be scratched, and I opened up a solo practice six months before the pandemic started. Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 What timing? I know. Why? Why did I do it?

Speaker 1 You could have been out. I know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, sometimes the universe has a calling for people.

Speaker 1 You know?

Speaker 2 It's been a very interesting journey.

Speaker 1 I mean, so take us through what happened with you at the very beginning. Like, so

Speaker 1 COVID starts making its way across the world.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I had people coming in with respiratory tract infections that were stubborn. They were not, you know, the typical colds.

Speaker 2 And there was all this, you know, news that there's this virus from China. But, you know, you watch something on the news, you think, oh, you know, that's not going to really affect me.

Speaker 2 But, you know, I started having more and more patients coming in. And at first, I really didn't know what to do.
I just used common sense. I mean, I treated the symptoms.
I used breathing treatments.

Speaker 2 I covered for secondary infection with with antibiotics. I used steroids, that sort of thing.
And I had success, but I didn't have a lot of people showing up at my doorstep treating me for COVID.

Speaker 2 But I did start having people wanting to get tested. And you might remember that LabCorp was the first lab in the country to offer the test.
And they just got completely slammed.

Speaker 2 So it took two weeks to get the results back. We were already working, I was already working with a lab for patients with chronic sinusitis who they were doing PCR testing for chronic sinusitis.

Speaker 2 So it tests for bacterial and fungal infections of the sinuses. It's called microgen DX.

Speaker 2 And they came out with a saliva test for COVID. So

Speaker 2 and we were able to get the results back the next day. So I started offering that and my little clinic exploded because, and I'm located in a strip mall, which is very purposeful.

Speaker 2 I'm very close to the medical center, which is, you know, to get your doctor's office, it's a 10-minute navigation of the parking garage and and another 10-minute walk to the office.

Speaker 2 And so I was trying to locate my office where it was very easy to get in and out of.

Speaker 2 And then that served me very well during the pandemic because with these saliva tests, you could just take the cup to somebody's car. They could spit in the cup.
They could leave it outside.

Speaker 2 It was contact-free. You didn't have to anything shoved up your nose.
And then we got the results back the next day. And so that sort of made me, put me on the map in my little neighborhood.

Speaker 2 And then I started tracking, you know, who, when the vaccines came out, I started tracking who was positive, you know, by their vaccination status.

Speaker 2 And so I started noticing that the vaccine wasn't working. And that's sort of what got me in trouble.

Speaker 2 I also started giving monoclonal antibodies and I didn't ration them.

Speaker 2 So I became known in town as a place you could get monoclonal antibodies without having to pass, you know, being a certain race or a certain age or that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 What do you think that was all about?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 But the monoclonal monoclonal antibodies is very frustrating to me. They worked very well.
They were not controversial. People would turn around the next day.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 when they first came out, I could get as many doses as I wanted. I mean, they show up at my doorstep the next day.

Speaker 2 And it was great. I mean,

Speaker 2 that also sort of put me on the map with COVID. And then I didn't even use ivermectin until the government took over a distribution of monoclonal antibodies.

Speaker 2 And then it became harder and harder to get them. And that's when I turned to ivermectin.
But, you know, in my opinion, they did that on purpose.

Speaker 2 They did that to encourage people to take the COVID shot. It was very orchestrated.
If you look at the timing,

Speaker 2 in March,

Speaker 2 the government put out the big information on ivermectin and why you should not take it for COVID. They put that on the FDA's website.

Speaker 2 At the same time, they launched COVID-19 Community Corps, and this was April 1st, 2021. This was an $11.5 billion slush fund to propaganda, to

Speaker 2 feed out propaganda and censor people. And the day that they launched the COVID-19 Community Corps was the same day that Houston Methodist, which is where I had privileges, they

Speaker 2 mandated the COVID shots for all their employees. And they were the first in the country.
And that's sort of how I got tangled up in all this because I had privileges there.

Speaker 2 And then I was actually working with them I was doing research with them I was sharing my data with them to try to get it published, but then I started questioning

Speaker 2 You know the the the vaccine and how it wasn't working I brought it to their attention first and they gaslit me and they just said well it's just it lowers severity

Speaker 2 And when they when they ignored me, then I started speaking out on social media and that's how that's what got me in trouble.

Speaker 2 But so that summer, 2021, that's when when the third and the largest surge of the pandemic started.

Speaker 2 And this was after the rollout of the wonderful COVID shots that were promised to stop transmission and prevent death and obviously didn't.

Speaker 2 And the government was getting frustrated. So they doubled down on their ivermectin attack, and this was end of August 2021.

Speaker 2 They put out the infamous horse tweet, said, seriously, y'all, you're not a horse, you're not a cow, stop it. A tweet went viral.

Speaker 2 It had dire consequences, in my opinion and then uh they approved they fully approved the covet shot and then biden mandated for um for employers with a hundred more employees and that was right when they took you down

Speaker 1 so it was all very coordinated oh and then and then the the final straw was taking away monoclonal antibodies they said this episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog i think we can all agree that eating highly processed food for every meal isn't optimal so why is processed food the status quo for dog food?

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Speaker 1 Yeah, that was the more fascinating thing about it to me is that I listed a bunch of different things that I took, including monoclonal antibodies. But they only concentrated on ivermectin.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 the way they did it was like so transparent, like changing the color of my face on CNN and everywhere, this concerted effort to call it horse D-wormer.

Speaker 1 They just tried to make it look as preposterous as possible without ever explaining that it's been used

Speaker 1 more than multiple billions of times prescribed to human beings.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean they branded you. When I think of you, I think of that picture of you where you're slightly green.

Speaker 2 And I honestly,

Speaker 2 yeah, but ivermectin, I was nervous about using it because of all the hype and because monoclonal work,

Speaker 2 because monoclonals worked so well, I was like, well, this is not going to live, you know, this is not going to work. I was nervous.

Speaker 2 But the first thing I did was dug into the safety and anybody could do that, which is a minimal amount of effort you can go to the FDA website and you can find the toxicity data on ivermectin and there's something called the LD50 lethal dose 50 which is it's a benchmark number that gives you an idea of how toxic a medication is and the LD50 means

Speaker 2 how many animal 50 what dose would kill 50% of lab animals so for ivermectin it kind of depends on the rat, I mean the type of animal and the gender.

Speaker 2 But it's basically 10 milligrams per kilogram up to 80 milligrams per kilogram. So for COVID, we're using 0.4 milligrams per kilogram.

Speaker 2 So I knew that we were not worried about, you know, killing people with it.

Speaker 2 And then I did a literature search and I looked for accidental, intentional overdoses for ivermectin, and I couldn't find a single study.

Speaker 2 Whereas you do that for Tylenol, I mean, thousands, thousands of reports. So once I knew it was safe, then I started using it, and then I found it worked.

Speaker 2 And then, yeah, all in all, I treated well over 6,000 patients. and everybody that got early treatment stayed out of the hospital.

Speaker 2 I also had patients come in that were really sick in the second week and that that was such a learning experience for me because you know normally if somebody walked into my office with an oxygen saturation in the low 80s I would call an ambulance

Speaker 2 but I had patients who would

Speaker 2 refusing to go to the hospital. And I had to give them the option to possibly die in my office,

Speaker 2 which is scary.

Speaker 2 But we saved them. I mean, we just threw the kitchen sink at them, and we didn't have monoclonal antibodies.
So we did, we brought them in every day.

Speaker 2 We did IV steroids, we did IV antibiotics, we gave them home oxygen, we gave them high dose of ivermectin, we did everything we could, and it was amazing. I mean, they survived.

Speaker 2 It was very gratifying.

Speaker 1 So you think it was probably a combination of all the different medications and all the different treatments?

Speaker 2 You know, I would vary my approach depending on the severity, the comorbidities. I mean, it's an art, not a, you know, a protocol, it's a guideline, right? But every patient is sort of individual.

Speaker 2 And so for the patients, you know, the one patient I'm thinking of, I mean, he had history of two heart attacks. He had a history of throat cancer.

Speaker 2 He came in with an oxygen level. It was below 80.
I can't remember exactly what it was. But, I mean, so I just did everything.

Speaker 2 You know, I took everything that I could and gave it to him, and it worked.

Speaker 2 And I had a few people like that. But, you know, if a 20-year-old came in, I'd probably just give him some ivermectin.
And, you know, it just depends.

Speaker 1 Why did you decide to try ivermectin, even though there was all this negative propaganda?

Speaker 2 Well, because I had patients coming to see me who needed help. I mean, I just wasn't going to shut my door.
I'd already established that I could help people with monoclonal antibodies.

Speaker 2 So I still had people coming to me seeking help. And I just didn't have the heart to say no.
And I knew it was safe. So I knew that, you know, it was a little bit iffy, but I knew it was safe.

Speaker 2 And there was good data showing it worked. It's just, you you know, one thing, you can find a study to support any argument you want in medicine.
I learned that in residency. All residents learn that.

Speaker 2 We have something called Journal Club where you sit down once a week and you pour through different articles. And the takeaway is most articles are, you know, crap.

Speaker 2 They're not, they're not, they're low power or they're they're conflicts of interest or, you know, they're not, they're designed poorly.

Speaker 2 So, you know, my mindset coming into the pandemic was, you know, the research, the journals are a starting point, but it's not the final say is your own clinical experience and what you're seeing.

Speaker 2 And, you know, we had never seen COVID before. This is a brand new entity.

Speaker 2 So we were learning on the fly, but I've never... treated this many patients with a single disease in my career.
I'm sure I never will again. And so you quickly become an expert.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 doctor, I can't can't speak for all doctors, but we like to do well. We like our patients to get better.
It's gratifying. That's sort of how you get job satisfaction is seeing your patients do well.

Speaker 2 So why would I, you know, continue to have

Speaker 2 COVID patients come in if I couldn't help them?

Speaker 2 And it's astounding to me that the doctors in the hospitals just didn't pivot, didn't try new things. And I guess they were handcuffed by the hospital administrators.

Speaker 2 But it just seems to me that you know there was a doctor in Houston Joe Verone who I'm pretty good friends with who a critical care doctor and he was one of the founders of FLCCC which is sort of the they developed the original protocols for ivermectin and Dr.

Speaker 2 Verone had much better success than most other doctors. His overall success rate was 4.4% of his patients died, whereas in other hospitals averaged around 20%.

Speaker 2 And he did, he threw the kitchen sink at them at people. And he basically followed this FLCCC hospital protocol.

Speaker 1 So when the monoclonal antibodies were suppressed,

Speaker 1 what was the messaging? Like what did they say to doctors?

Speaker 2 They said that the strain of the virus was no longer covered, so that it had evolved and it wouldn't work.

Speaker 1 At the same time, they're using the exact same vaccine.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And they had switched the monoclonal antibodies periodically.
So it wasn't like they started with one and stuck with it the whole time. They switched it as things evolved.

Speaker 1 It was really clear. And the propaganda was shocking because we've all seen propaganda

Speaker 1 with foreign conflicts, weapons of mass destruction, all that jazz. We've all seen propaganda.

Speaker 1 But when Rolling Stone magazine printed an article saying that people were, the hospitals were overflowing with people overdosing on ivermectin and gunshot victims couldn't get in.

Speaker 1 And And then they used a stock photo, which was of a bunch of people wearing winter coats in like, I think it was, I think the article was August in Oklahoma.

Speaker 1 Like the whole thing was, it was so brazen and sloppy and obvious, especially.

Speaker 1 In the age of Google, if this had all gone down in the 1980s, we would all be in the dark. We would have no idea.
We would have been like, wow, I guess the ivermectin's killing people.

Speaker 1 We wouldn't have known until like 2030 you know people would have like you have been a conspiracy theorist you've been a crazy person like one of those people that could tell you all the facts about the kennedy assassination you know with wild eyes

Speaker 1 all over stone you know but It was so obvious and it was so confusing because, you know, I had had people on my podcast before where, you know, I'd had doctors on and I would talk about foolish people that don't believe in traditional medicine, like people that want to try different things.

Speaker 1 Like

Speaker 1 people that that were anti-vaccine or anti-anything. I'd be like, these are the best people at the front of the line.
Trust them. Five years later, I'm like, don't trust anybody.

Speaker 1 They're all compromised. It's all money.
And that was the most disheartening thing.

Speaker 1 The propaganda was disheartening, but it was that the whole system is compromised.

Speaker 1 And then when I found out that pharmaceutical drug companies are, they're the ones that are funding studies and that they could have a whole ton of studies.

Speaker 1 They don't have to divulge all the data from their studies. They only have to show you some studies that were carefully crafted to show efficacy.

Speaker 1 But all the other studies that they had that even showed negative effects, they could bury those. They didn't have, they weren't held responsible.
Exactly. I was like, what is this?

Speaker 1 Like, what is this? But it's like everything in the world when money gets involved.

Speaker 2 You know, that Rolling Stone tweet is still up.

Speaker 2 I found it yesterday. I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 1 Wild. Look at that.
Look at these people wearing winter coats.

Speaker 1 So apparently, this was a bunch of people that were waiting in line for the flu shot. Gunshot victims.
All those people got shot. What the fuck is going on in Oklahoma? They're just shooting folks.

Speaker 1 They think it's the Wild West out there. Imagine if those were all gunshot.
But look how crazy that article is, or that tweet is.

Speaker 1 Gunshot victims left waiting as horse dewormer overdoses overwhelm Oklahoma. By the way, zero horse dewormers there.
Zero. Well, it was a total lie.

Speaker 2 Well, in a,

Speaker 2 you know, even last Friday, Vanity Fair did an article on Maha and Cali Means,

Speaker 2 and they quoted me in it, and in the, you know, in their description of me,

Speaker 2 they used horse dewormer.

Speaker 1 I could not believe it.

Speaker 2 Still, Catherine Ebon,

Speaker 2 the reporter for Vanity Fair, and she buddied up to me, acted like we were good friends.

Speaker 1 That's how they always do it. Yep.
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Speaker 2 They're all good. I learned a valuable lesson.

Speaker 1 It's so dirty. It's such a dirty business.
God, I just have massive respect for journalists.

Speaker 1 If I had never done this podcast, I'd be your regular schmo out there with, you know, just spitting out all the company lines that all the blast all over the news. I kind of liked it better then.

Speaker 1 It was a lot easier, right?

Speaker 1 Ignorance is bliss. I didn't think the world was filled with demons, money-hungry demons that are willing to sacrifice human lives in the pursuit of

Speaker 1 revenue. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 That's why we have to continue this fight because people have lost all trust with good reason.

Speaker 1 With good reason. That's why I'm having you on.
That's why I continue to talk. People are like, stop with the COVID already.
I get it, folks. If this is not for you, move on.

Speaker 1 Mary and I will still be bitching about this for the next three years.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, for me, it was just, it was such a wake-up call because it's so weird to see your face on TV green, first of all. That was weird.
And then this term horse dewormer.

Speaker 1 I'm like, why are you guys aren't concentrating on the fact that a 55-year-old man is...

Speaker 1 Fine three days later during the worst strain. It was during the Delta where everybody's freaking out.

Speaker 1 This one's going to kill us all and I was fine in three days and I made this video I'm like I'm sorry I have to cancel the concert this weekend you know I got COVID but I'm good now and then that I had I didn't think that was gonna be anything I thought that was just gonna be the people that bought tickets to see Dave Chappelle and I in New Orleans and that was gonna was it Nashville wherever it was That's all it was gonna be.

Speaker 1 Those folks, they're gonna be upset. I'm sorry, you know, we'll make it up to you.
Your tickets still count. That's all I thought it was gonna be.

Speaker 1 I thought it was gonna be like a normal tweet that I put out or a normal Instagram post that I put out. And then all of a sudden I hear that Neil Young wants me removed from Spotify.

Speaker 1 I was like, what the fuck is going on? This is crazy. Spotify got calls from two former presidents.
Really? Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 What about

Speaker 1 did you get censored or de-platformed? No, I grew by 2 million subscribers in a month.

Speaker 1 I did. Because people started listening because they made it sound like I was this maniac.
And they started listening. They're like, oh, he's really reasonable and pretty humble about all this stuff.

Speaker 1 And just asking questions and bringing people on, like Dr. Robert Malone, who has nine patents in the invention of mRNA vaccine technology.
Like, he's one of the guys. He took it himself.

Speaker 1 He was reporting his insane adverse side effect where he almost died. He was telling about it, and they labeled him a kook for that.

Speaker 2 What made you so awake, though?

Speaker 1 Well, that.

Speaker 2 Just Malone.

Speaker 1 No, well Malone,

Speaker 1 Peter McCullough. Well, I've always been the type of person that is like, if someone is saying something and they have rock-solid connect, Dr.

Speaker 1 Peter McCullough is the most published physician in his field in human history.

Speaker 1 Like this is an incredibly well-respected doctor up until he took a moral and ethical stand saying that this is not what they're saying. This is not what we should be doing, and then destroyed.

Speaker 1 They tried to destroy his car.

Speaker 1 It's insane.

Speaker 1 But the man has incredible courage, and he was labeled all kinds of, when I would tell people, he's the most published physician in time, you'd see their eyes glaze up like they didn't want to hear it.

Speaker 1 I'm like, maybe he's right. Well, five years later, we know he's right.
We know he was right. He was right all along.
I mean, the whole, so for me,

Speaker 1 when there's p

Speaker 1 there's always a bunch of people that are ideologically or financially captured. And then there's people that feel morally obligated to tell the truth.
And you can spot those people.

Speaker 1 And when I spotted a few of them, I'm like, okay, let me hear them out. I might be the guy that goes, no, this guy's a kook, and he's going to cost people lives.

Speaker 1 Or I might be someone who goes, hey, everybody, hit the brakes. Like, you might be getting bamboozled here.
And

Speaker 1 especially the real concern. with any sort of a new drug is always the side effects.
But when you have indemnity,

Speaker 1 when you have complete immunity for any financial liability, like the vaccine manufacturers do, and all you have to do is label it a vaccine. Right.
Because that's not a traditional vaccine.

Speaker 1 It's just not. They changed the definition for mRNA vaccine technology.
Before that, it was not that. It was a very different thing.
We all had in our head, vaccines are good.

Speaker 1 That's why they don't get sued because we need vaccines.

Speaker 1 You know, and then,

Speaker 1 unfortunately, I read Robert F. Kennedy jr's book the real anthony fauci i was like oh my god

Speaker 1 did you what was your initial thought about the covet shot what was your i was ready to take it did you take it no i didn't take it but that's why they were so mad at me i was ready to take it i i um the ufc had allocated uh shots for all the johnson johnson for all their employees and i showed up there on uh a saturday which was the day of the fights and i said can you give it to me and they said yeah sure let's uh call the doctor we'll set it it up.

Speaker 1 I thought I was going to get a shot. I thought it was like a flu shot.
Like, I'll get that shot and I'll go do the broadcast. I was going to do the broadcast.
I didn't think anything of it.

Speaker 1 I was not worried about it at all. And they said, no, you have to come to the clinic and do it.
Could you do that on Monday? And I said, I can't, but I'll be back in two weeks. During the time that I

Speaker 1 was trying to get it, and then in two weeks later, when the next fights were, it got pulled from the market

Speaker 1 because of blood clots. And then two people I knew had strokes.

Speaker 1 And I was like, hold the fuck up.

Speaker 1 And then I got real nervous because there was a lot of family members that were like really pushing it. You need to get vaccinated.
Everyone should get vaccinated. Have you gotten vaccinated?

Speaker 1 Get vaccinated. We all need to do our part.
We all need to get vaccinated. And, you know, then I became a heretic.

Speaker 1 Then I was like, okay, I don't think I want to do it. And I had a bunch of friends that had horrible side effects, including one of them who is a young guy, was a pacemaker now.

Speaker 1 His heart stopped beating for like nine seconds at a time and he would black out. It was wild shit was happening.
And I was like, I don't understand why this isn't on the news. I don't understand.

Speaker 1 And then I'm like, oh my God, I'm the news.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I have to be the news. I don't want to be the news.
I like talking shit. I like having a bunch of comedians here.
We have laughs. We get silly.

Speaker 1 You know, have a few drinks, watch some funny videos, crack each other, have fun. Or scientists.
I like to have fascinating people in here. Tell me how the cosmos was formed.

Speaker 1 I'm not, I don't want to be someone who distributes information to the masses. It's been lied to.
That's not, I don't have any lofty goals like that.

Speaker 1 Like, I want to be the, I want to be the one who tells the truth. And that's not what I do.
No.

Speaker 1 I'm just a curious person who talks to people.

Speaker 2 Was it hard for you to get ivermectin?

Speaker 1 No, I got it from India like that.

Speaker 1 I got boxes of it. I was handing it out to everybody.
I think it was a lot of people. And most people don't have to go to India to get their medicine.
They went to the U.S. Well,

Speaker 1 that was after my doctor had got it for me. My doctor got it for me.
I think I fucked it up for everybody.

Speaker 1 I think me becoming the attack boy when they went after me I don't think they would have attacked anybody that didn't have a large platform like that and I don't think they would I should say it better I should I don't think they would have attacked ivermectin the way they did I think they would have just suppressed it and it wouldn't have been a public thing because it wouldn't have got out I think the problem was me saying that the thing the crazy thing is I said all that other stuff too I said IV vitamins I said ZPAC prednisone I told them all the things my doctor put me on and all they concentrated on was this ivermectin thing.

Speaker 1 I was like, this is wild. Like, what is going on?

Speaker 1 And then I was like, am I wrong about ivermectin? And then I started just reading about the scientists to the team that invented it and how they won a Nobel Prize.

Speaker 1 I'm like, okay, what the hell is happening? Like, this is nuts. This is so weird.

Speaker 2 Well, it was all part of

Speaker 2 getting the shot in every arm. And

Speaker 2 they had to go after ivermectin. I mean, they launched a war on ivermectin.
Pierre Corey wrote a book about it.

Speaker 1 I had Pierre on early on, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. And I actually sued the FDA over that horse tweet, and we won.
It hasn't really changed anything.

Speaker 2 But so the FDA, when they put that information or misinformation out against ivermectin, they were really crossing a line because they're not allowed to tell the public you can't take a medication for this or you should take a medication for that.

Speaker 2 They're basically allowed to just approve medications and move on.

Speaker 2 I mean, they can issue a safety alert if there's something that comes up, but they're not allowed to really direct patients, and that's what they did.

Speaker 2 And so we did sue them, and we won, and they had to take down the horse tweet, and they had to take down the misinformation on their website.

Speaker 2 But unfortunately, as evidenced by what just happened on Vanity Fair, I mean, the brand of it being only for animals still lives on. And, you know, it'd be great.

Speaker 1 What happened at Vanity Fair?

Speaker 2 So the reporter still used the term horse dewormer.

Speaker 1 Right, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wild. Right.
Wild. You're still able to horse dewormer pusher in 2025.
Right, right.

Speaker 1 When Chris Cuomo is out there talking about how he's taking it for long COVID. Right, right.

Speaker 2 But it would be great if the FDA could issue some sort of statement

Speaker 2 saying that it is safe, that it is used in humans. They don't have to say much more than that, but

Speaker 2 we could use a little help in rebranding ivermectin.

Speaker 2 And there are also a bunch of states that are trying to make it over the counter i'm not sure if you've seen that yes i have 17 states have had bills in the last legislative session trying to get ivermectin over the counter three have been successful so tennessee idaho and arkansas four there is still in deliberations and ten they failed but another thing the fda i believe should do is make ivermectin over the counter because people are basically going to the feed store i mean my my own kid, he had some sort of scabies situation in West Texas over the weekend.

Speaker 2 He had to go to the feed store to get treatment.

Speaker 2 And I did a poll on Twitter. 52% of the respondents said they go to the feed store to get their ivermectin.

Speaker 1 Is there any difference in the ivermectin from the feed store? I don't know.

Speaker 2 I mean, I haven't heard of anybody having issues, but it's just unnecessary. This is America.

Speaker 1 We should be able to get...

Speaker 2 the medication very easily.

Speaker 1 And there is some sort of an efficacy for some sort of skin infections. Is that true?

Speaker 2 Scabies is one of them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so but you use it topically. Is that how it's worked?

Speaker 2 You can. I mean, for scabies, actually, you can take it orally.
Okay.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 yeah, so we shouldn't have to go to India. We shouldn't have to go to the feed store.
We should be able to just go to, I mean, in Mexico.

Speaker 1 A guy from India. He still emails me.
Do you need any more, my friend?

Speaker 2 I don't know. That kind of worries me because you just.

Speaker 1 I just bought boxes. I was handed out boxes to people because so many people were telling me they couldn't get it.
You're right. And so I'm like, let me just get a lot of it while I still can.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I guess it's probably fine, but it's just not necessary.

Speaker 1 People are giving it to me at shows. Oh, they were as gifts.
I carry it around my purse. I like

Speaker 1 lemoning for something. Oh, here's my ivermectin.
Oh, I know people that take it as a prophylactic all the time. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Which is so

Speaker 1 it's just what a weird drug to go after. That was on the World Health Organization's list of essential medicines.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 How many people who had yellow fever and river blindness, all sorts of different parasitic infections.

Speaker 2 It won a Nobel Prize.

Speaker 1 And it showed that it stopped viral replication in vitro.

Speaker 1 They knew that.

Speaker 1 I remember when I brought that up to Sanjay Kupta, it was like, but you know it does, right? And you can see the look on his face where it's like, he couldn't talk about it.

Speaker 1 He had to skirt around it and just do his best.

Speaker 1 But it was like, this is kind of crazy to make an off-label medication so taboo.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then to stop monoclonal antibodies, just stop them. Well, you couldn't get them.

Speaker 1 My friend, one of his buddies, was in the hospital, and because he was in the hospital, they wouldn't give him monoclonal antibodies. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 If you cross that threshold, you are not going to get monoclonal antibodies.

Speaker 1 What is that about? Does that make any sense?

Speaker 2 Well, they did it by the day. Apparently, there was some data showing if you gave it too late in the time course, it actually makes things worse.

Speaker 1 How much people did they give it to that were too late?

Speaker 1 How do we know this?

Speaker 1 It seems a little suspicious. It does seem suspicious because, like, why would if something, if you've shown something to be very effective done early on,

Speaker 1 wouldn't you assume it would continue to be at least somewhat effective? Right. Now, if you're trying to stop someone who's on the brink of death, which this gentleman might wound up dying

Speaker 1 and they didn't get it to him, if you're just trying to stop, and

Speaker 1 you can't do it because you're in the hospital because you're admitted? Yeah. Like, you should have like crazy data that shows like after 14, your feet fall off.

Speaker 1 14 days of infection, your feet fall off, you go blind if you take it, can't give it to you.

Speaker 2 And my theory is they probably had a massive inflammatory response because we would see that, that people would get the monoclonal antibodies and they would just feel like complete hell that night because it was like a little war going on in the body.

Speaker 2 And then they would wake up the next day feeling great.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you had that experience, but

Speaker 2 pretty much did. So, you know, the second week of illness was the massive inflammatory response.
So

Speaker 2 my thinking is the monoclonal antibodies may have just exacerbated that, but they could have counteracted that with high-dose steroids. And that was another thing.

Speaker 2 They gave these like piddly doses of steroids in the hospital.

Speaker 1 And what steroids in particular?

Speaker 2 Methylprednisolone or solumedral was what we typically used.

Speaker 1 If we were in the method of prednisone, what I took?

Speaker 2 Is that the same thing? No, well, pretinisone is an oral.

Speaker 2 They're different types, but like I usually do a medrol dose pack rather than prednisone because it's been shown to help better with respiratory. It's not a huge deal.

Speaker 2 But in the hospitals, they could give solumedral and high doses of that. But they were giving very small doses of steroid, which is the problem.

Speaker 1 Interesting. Well, that's also one of the things that they talked about in the RFK Jr.
book,

Speaker 1 was that the studies that were saying that it was ineffective, the studies were not using the protocol that these doctors were using. And it seemed like these studies were designed to fail.

Speaker 2 Exactly, exactly. And, you know, like I said, you can find a study to support or go against against anything you want, basically.

Speaker 2 So I just relied on my clinical experience. And I just had so many people saying, wow, it really made a big difference.
And I saw people staying out of the hospital and it wasn't hurting anybody.

Speaker 2 But yeah, a lot of those studies were basically designed to fail.

Speaker 2 Either, you know, the dose wasn't high enough or they gave it too late or it was heavily funded by somebody that doesn't want it to succeed.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's all very bizarre. Like really, it's really bizarre to live through.

Speaker 1 And for you, as a person who was out of medicine and then said, jump back in six months before all this, like, what is it like to have your world view sort of like spun around like that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's good and bad. Like, I feel sorry for the people that don't get it in a lot of ways.
Um,

Speaker 2 but I just never thought it would come to all this. You know, I

Speaker 2 didn't go back to work to have a huge, huge career. I was just basically trying to stay busy and active.

Speaker 1 And help people.

Speaker 2 But I didn't envision this at all.

Speaker 2 It's been very impactful. I'll say that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what has it been like?

Speaker 1 I mean, having to do this?

Speaker 1 Having to do all these podcasts? Yeah,

Speaker 2 it's wild.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's not what I envisioned at all.

Speaker 2 But it's been, you know, I feel vindicated finally. At least I'm not embarrassed to go to the school functions anymore or show up at the sporting events.

Speaker 2 Or, you know, I used to be scared to go to the grocery store because they just, they came after me so hard.

Speaker 2 And in Houston, I mean, Houston Methodist Hospital is sort of the country club, you know, the elite of the hospitals. And so

Speaker 2 for them to come after me was a big deal. It's hard to get privileges there.

Speaker 2 You know, they their tagline is leading medicine and they were very proud of being the first hospital in the country to mandate the shots. They didn't need to go after me.
I mean, I was nothing.

Speaker 2 I was, you know, I saw a lot of COVID patients, but in the grand scheme of things, I really wasn't, you know, I was not really doing anything.

Speaker 1 It's the Streisand effect, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 They attacked you, and by doing so, they made the whole thing way bigger than it needed to be.

Speaker 2 But they did silence other doctors. I mean, I hear from doctors all the time that won't say anything because of what they did to me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, there's a lot of doctors that I know that that were in danger of losing their license because they had prescribed ivermectin.

Speaker 2 And that was another thing.

Speaker 2 The Federation of State Medical Boards, which is this private entity, they're actually located in Texas, who oversees all the state medical boards.

Speaker 2 They sent out a directive to all the state medical boards concerning ivermectin, concerning misinformation, and basically encouraging the medical boards to go after doctors like myself. And I mean,

Speaker 2 I'm still tangled up with the medical board trying to clear my name.

Speaker 2 But they did that. That was, it all happened in that fall of 2021, right when Biden mandated the shots.

Speaker 2 They really came down hard on the doctors.

Speaker 1 So what did they do specifically to you?

Speaker 2 So I got several complaints, but only one of them has really stuck. The others have I've cleared my name on, but they were all involving ivermectin.

Speaker 2 No patient harm. The The one that has stuck is from a hospital in Dallas called Texas-Hugley Hospital.
And there was this man, a sheriff's deputy, father of six, who's basically dying.

Speaker 2 They were talking hospice, and his wife wanted him to have the opportunity to try ivermectin.

Speaker 2 And he had tried to get it before getting in the hospital and couldn't find a doctor willing to prescribe it. So wife knew he was okay with it.

Speaker 2 And so she sued the hospital, and then she asked me to come on as sort of the expert.

Speaker 2 They had to have a doctor who was willing to prescribe it because they can't force the doctors to prescribe a medication, but they could force the hospital to give a doctor privileges who is willing to prescribe it.

Speaker 2 So that's where I came in. And we won the case.

Speaker 2 And the hospital had a court order saying that they were going to give me emergency temporary privileges so that I could go into the hospital and give him ivermectin.

Speaker 2 Well, there was all this stall tactics. They were supposed to give me the privileges the same day.

Speaker 2 And in other circumstances, at that time, because of the pandemic, they were giving doctors same-day privileges. It wasn't this lengthy application process because there was a shortage of doctors.

Speaker 2 But for me, they made me submit my surgical case log for the last three years. They made me get three letters of recommendation.
They made me fill out like a 30-page application.

Speaker 2 I got it all done in 24 hours. And then they're like, no, no, we're not, we're actually going to deny you privileges.

Speaker 2 So it turned out in this big battle, it became very confusing because they had to go back to the judge. And I finally got the green light though.
The lawyer's like, we can go.

Speaker 2 You've got the green light. The judge, we got the order.
There's no stay on the order. I send a nurse to the hospital because this is in Dallas and I'm in Houston.

Speaker 2 Shows up with the court order and the police greet her and turn her away. There's not a big scene.
She leaves, but she's not allowed to give him ivermectin.

Speaker 2 It turns out they did get a stay, but our lawyers weren't aware of it at the time.

Speaker 2 But this is what they're going after me. They said that I sent a nurse to the hospital without privileges and I caused a scene and I, you know, I harmed other patients by doing this.

Speaker 2 And it has been, I mean, it's three and a half years. They can't find an expert witness to testify against me.
There have been three continuances.

Speaker 2 They finally were awarded summary judgment against me. So I'm already decided, they've decided I'm guilty.

Speaker 2 And now I'm waiting for my punishment. There was a hearing about a month ago to find out what they're going to fine me with and that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 And I'm just waiting on that. But I do plan on appealing.
It's just gotten crazy.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the first thing they attacked you with was what? What was the first one?

Speaker 2 Oh, for the medical board? Yes.

Speaker 2 I had.

Speaker 2 Had one pharmacist turn me in because we sort of got in a pissing match on the phone.

Speaker 1 This is in 2021?

Speaker 2 That might have been, I can't remember, but around that time.

Speaker 2 I had another, I had

Speaker 2 a father reach out to me. Here's a 17-year-old

Speaker 2 had a history of a kidney transplant, and they were going to Europe and they wanted to have ivermectin just in case he got sick. And I was talking to the dad and the stepmother.

Speaker 2 I didn't realize I wasn't talking to the mother. So the mother found out I prescribed him ivermectin and turned me in.

Speaker 2 But ivermectin is

Speaker 2 um metabolized by the liver, not the kidney. So, it would be no harm for him to get, you know, having had a kidney transplant for him to get ivermectin.

Speaker 2 And he never took the medicine, but it cost me $16,000 in legal fees to get that straightened out.

Speaker 1 So, this was your first experience, like, oh my god, like, this is a real battle.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've never been in any trouble, I've never been sued.

Speaker 1 Um, did it would it feel weird publicly yet? Like, like when you when you were saying you were having a hard time going to the grocery store, you were worried that

Speaker 2 that was when Methodists came after me. So, Methodists

Speaker 1 They came after you very publicly.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they tweeted about me. They went to the I found out that my privileges were suspended from a text message from a reporter.
That's how I found out. I looked at my phone.

Speaker 1 I was like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 I did. I said, check your sources.
I don't know what you're talking about. And then I go to my email and they suspended me.
And then they tweeted about it.

Speaker 2 And it went, you know, I had CNN, Washington Post going after me it was it was it was traumatic I mean I was just a you know a mom of four with a small practice and all of a sudden I've got CNN calling me

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 1 what did what was going through your mind while that was happening

Speaker 2 I spent the weekend in the fetal position and a lot of tears and then I was like I was pissed and I and I just I on Monday I you know I hired a lawyer and I hired a guy to help me with the press and I held a press conference on Monday.

Speaker 2 I resigned and then I sued them.

Speaker 2 And then I just have been working to try to

Speaker 2 clear my name.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 It's just, it's so hard to imagine for someone who's never experienced what you went through what that must be like emotionally to just get thrown.

Speaker 1 to the wolves in front of the world, like publicly, by people like CNN, like where it gets so weird because

Speaker 1 if that never happens to you, you look at CNN and you go, oh, they're the news. They're going to tell me the truth.
That's what I thought. I just automatically thought that.

Speaker 1 Or they're at least saying what they're allowed to say. Maybe the government holds back some information, but they're not going to lie.
And then I

Speaker 1 see my own self on TV, and I'm sure, but I'm used to being attacked for things.

Speaker 2 I think the harder was, you know, CNN, whatever, but it's more just locally, like going to the grocery store, going to the baseball game where your kids playing, and like hoping, you know, sitting in a corner because you don't want anybody to see you.

Speaker 1 Did anybody ever bother you?

Speaker 2 No, honestly, no. But you just feel self-you just feel very self-conscious.
It's hard not to. Yeah.
Even now, I mean, I still feel self-conscious, but it's a lot better. I mean,

Speaker 2 you know, I had a Mother's Day event out of school, and people actually came up and said nice things to me for once. So that was

Speaker 1 nice. Well, a lot of people got red-pilled, you know, to use the Matrix expression, you know, where they woke up to what's really going on.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's kind of a masterful job of propaganda over the years that the pharmaceutical drug companies have done. I mean, because most people aren't even aware of how many drugs get pulled.

Speaker 1 They're not even aware of the high percentage of them. What is it, in the 30s?

Speaker 2 Well, yes, about 33%.

Speaker 2 They looked at it over 10 years. 33% had significant safety warnings on the drugs.
And it took about four years for those to become recognized.

Speaker 2 I mean, they're drugs that I used to prescribe that are no longer on the market.

Speaker 2 I mean, so yeah, like I said, it would have been any other drug would have definitely been pulled by now based on all the adverse events we've seen.

Speaker 1 But it's just very profitable. And that's what people have to wake up to.
There's a bunch of factors, right?

Speaker 1 There's the primary one, which is a bunch of scientists that are really trying to help people.

Speaker 1 And they're really trying to develop new ways to cure Parkinson's and all sorts of other problems and cancer.

Speaker 1 And these people are just constantly. And then there's the money people.
The money people who take that thing and say, how do we give OxyContin to everybody?

Speaker 1 And then you have the Sackler family, right? You have evil. You have like actual evil.
Maybe they don't have horns. Maybe they don't have a forked tail, but that's a demonic thing to do.

Speaker 1 You're infecting people with essentially something that turns them into a zombie. And it's killing people.

Speaker 1 But you're going to make a lot of money.

Speaker 2 In health, too, especially in health.

Speaker 1 Well, it's because you're so trusted.

Speaker 1 You're coming from a position of authority. It's a very different thing, you know,

Speaker 1 especially in an area where most people are woefully ignorant. I mean, look how many doctors who are practicing doctors who are woefully ignorant about nutrition.
Right.

Speaker 1 It's an enormous amount, right? Now imagine the average person who has to go to a specialist about something and they're being told, oh, you need Vioxx.

Speaker 1 This is this thing I'm going to give you and it's going to cure your arthritis. Like, oh, great.
And then you fucking stroke out.

Speaker 1 And the people who made that drug knew it was going to cause problems in people.

Speaker 1 In the emails that were admitted during the hearings when they lost or during the court proceedings,

Speaker 1 they wound up paying a fraction of what they made. They made like $12 billion.
They had to pay. I think they had to pay five.
So they made seven. You know, with, you know, it's costs and stuff.

Speaker 1 Stuff costs money. But Jesus, it's it's so hard.
It's so hard to wake up to that. It's so hard to like go, oh, wait,

Speaker 1 so they're not looking out for us? They're not like trying to make us better. I always thought they were the people that were the most wonderful people in the world.

Speaker 1 They're the people that are providing the medication that's keeping everyone alive. This is why our life expectancy is 100 years old now, as opposed to just 20 years ago.
Like, oh, great.

Speaker 2 Life expectancy has gone down, actually.

Speaker 1 Whoops.

Speaker 2 Whoops. Despite all the vaccines.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And vaccines are even their own special class, right? It's the gospel. It's a religion.
It's a gospel. I mean, we were, it was never questioned in my training.

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I would have never questioned it. Not only that, I would not talk to anybody who did.
I'd be like, get out of here.

Speaker 1 I'm not having an anti-vaxxer on the show. Fuck off.

Speaker 1 But after reading Suzanne Humphreys' book, and I had her on recently, reading that book, I was like, what?

Speaker 1 Wait a minute. What? And then just, this can't be true.

Speaker 1 And then just look at the raw data of like when the vaccines were introduced and also when hygiene was introduced and sanitation was introduced and then massive drop-off of the disease.

Speaker 1 And then at the very end, when it's almost gone, vaccines are introduced in almost every case. And yet we all are thinking, like, thank God vaccines exist because otherwise we'd all have polio.

Speaker 1 Like, oh, Christ.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it bothers me that I never questioned it.

Speaker 1 Never would have. The polio one blew me away.

Speaker 1 When you find out that that was the same time where they were using DDT everywhere, and the people that were getting polio first were people in rural farmland communities where they sprayed DDT everywhere.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't just affecting people, it was affecting horses, and it doesn't cross species.

Speaker 1 So it wasn't the same thing clearly something was going on and everybody got locked into this polio scare and to this day i've had i had a friend use that to me in a text message to me about like look we have to really appreciate that you know he's like trying to make up for some stupid joke and he was saying that we you know look at jonah salt cured polio i'm like

Speaker 1 I don't have the time. I don't have the time to sit down and tell him there's a great book.
It's called Dissolving Illusions. You should read it.

Speaker 1 and then you should read turtles all the way down it's another great book and uh then you should listen to robert f kennedy jr's journey from being a very respected and trusted environmental attorney who was applauded by the left to being some nutcase pariah who i thought was a nutcase i had to apologize to him when i had him on the show i said i have to tell you when i first heard of you and i for like i thought you were a kook you're this anti-vaccine kook i bought i was living in la working in hollywood we

Speaker 1 I bought into it. I'll climb and seeker.
Everybody around me thought that way. So I thought we all, this is what sensible, intelligent people think.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I don't think you can really convince people.

Speaker 1 I think they have to figure it out for themselves. No, and they don't want to hear it.
That's the thing. It's like telling someone that their spaghetti monster in the sky is not real.

Speaker 1 Like they, you know, they don't want to hear it. You just can't.

Speaker 2 Right. I've just

Speaker 2 given up. But I, yeah, but there's hope.
I mean,

Speaker 2 you came around and you're not in the field, right? And people, I think,

Speaker 2 you know, COVID directly impacted every single American and not in a good way, right?

Speaker 1 No, there was nothing good about it.

Speaker 1 The only thing good about it was a shift in perspective. Right.
And that it's going to be way harder to pull some shit off like this again. Right.

Speaker 1 People are not going to buy into it, especially all those vaccine injured people who keep getting gaslit. You know, why do they keep calling it long COVID?

Speaker 1 How come nobody I know wasn't vaccinated got long COVID? Right, right. What is this long COVID you speak of? Is there long flu?

Speaker 1 Where's the long pneumonia? What the fuck are you talking about? Why are you calling it,

Speaker 1 is it possible that this is a vaccine injury? I'm just asking.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, I've been looking at antibody levels in these people, and it's alarming. So we have an anti- We really don't have a lot of tests for vaccine injured.

Speaker 2 It's hard because they'll get the million-dollar workup.

Speaker 2 By the time they come to see me, you know, they've gone through, you know, multiple tests, they have multiple doctors.

Speaker 1 It's not really a million dollars, is it? The work of it? Well, I don't know, but I'm exaggerating. But I just want to be clear.
I don't get crazy.

Speaker 1 For some vanity fair case, Horsty Wormer, who claimed there was a million-dollar markup.

Speaker 2 I was going to say somebody should fact-check me on that. It's probably higher than a million.

Speaker 2 Oh, so they get, you know, they go through the workup, and then

Speaker 2 they can't find a test to prove that they're injured. So the doctors will put them on psychiatric medication.
They'll put them on sleeping pills and benzodiazepines and antidepressants.

Speaker 2 Literally, I saw a patient that was put on all three.

Speaker 2 So the only test that I have found that does seem to correlate is this antibody test. And it's a spike protein antibody test.
LabCorp has it. That's where I send people.

Speaker 2 Quest has it, but they put the upper limit as too low. So you don't really get a good sense.
But it, yeah, the upper limit of the test is 25,000.

Speaker 2 And people that have not gotten the COVID shots, I'd say it ranges, it's usually under 1,000. And then people that have gotten the shots, I mean,

Speaker 2 a lot of them are off the chart. They're over 25,000.
But on average, they're probably 10 times higher than the people who have not gotten the shot.

Speaker 2 And this is people who weren't, you know, they were vaccinated four years ago. It wasn't like they just got the shot.
You know, obviously.

Speaker 2 COVID's not an issue anymore in terms of, you know, people getting sick. But four years later, you should not have sky-high antibody levels.
And that's what I'm seeing. And that is alarming.

Speaker 2 It just suggests that there is a lot of spike protein still in the body causing problems.

Speaker 1 And haven't they shown that the spike protein continues to be produced in the body up to 700 days later?

Speaker 2 There's, yes. I mean, that is, that's one study.
There's some, you know, what's interesting, that study, the antibody levels were really low, which doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 So I kind of question the whole study. But yeah, I mean, I see it.
I mean, I see patients. I mean, I still see vaccine-injured patients coming to me for the first time, years later.

Speaker 2 Last week, I probably saw six new vaccine-injured patients.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 they're not getting any help.

Speaker 2 The government, it's called the CICP. That's a vaccine, it's a countermeasures injury compensation program.
They're supposed to help these patients.

Speaker 2 They have denied 98% of people that have applied for assistance.

Speaker 2 On average, I think they've awarded 20, they've awarded 30 people, 30 of all the vaccine injured that have applied, 30 people, on average, the award is like $4,000 for these people. It's horrible.

Speaker 2 I mean, these people's lives are just destroyed. These are not easy things to treat.
It's not like I can give them an antibiotic and they're good to go and they're fine.

Speaker 2 I mean, they're very challenging.

Speaker 2 We don't have a lot of guidance. I do see a lot of success with ivermectin, but it's slow going.
It's usually, you know, months of trying to help them.

Speaker 2 And the government really needs to help these people.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of people suffering and they're getting completely ignored. The other issues, we don't even have a code.
So every disease has a numerical code, and it's called an ICD-10 code.

Speaker 2 It's what they use to compensate people for, or the insurance companies use them, but also for tracking.

Speaker 2 So if you have, you know, COVID has its own little code and you can just dial in the code and get all the numbers. They don't have a code for vaccine injury.

Speaker 2 They have a code for vaccine hesitancy, but they don't have a code for injury. So all these people are just sort of, you know, they're getting all these diagnoses, but there's no way to track them.

Speaker 2 It's a big problem.

Speaker 1 It's not convenient. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I would imagine

Speaker 1 the real problem with paying people is you'd have to pay so many.

Speaker 1 You know, but that's...

Speaker 2 But we can just print the money. I don't know what the problem is.

Speaker 1 I mean, what do you give them? What if you find out you have myocarditis and your life expectancy is greatly reduced and we know for a fact it came out of this vaccine?

Speaker 1 What do you give a person like that?

Speaker 2 You're going to take... Their life's wages? What wages that they would have potentially earned?

Speaker 1 What if it's Katy Perry?

Speaker 2 Well, so be it.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? Like, you have to give her $2 billion. I don't care.
Like, what do you do?

Speaker 2 The vaccine companies can pay that money.

Speaker 1 I know, but it's insane.

Speaker 1 The number of people that I personally know.

Speaker 1 What's very shocking to me is when I talk to people that are pro-vaccine, still pro-vaccine, and when I'll be very specific, mRNA vaccine, still pro-COVID vaccine that will tell me they don't know anybody who was injured by it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I was like, how is that possible?

Speaker 2 How many people do you know?

Speaker 1 I know a lot.

Speaker 1 I know two people on pacemakers. Yeah.
Two.

Speaker 2 And they're young. Everybody knows somebody.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know a lot of people that got fucked up, including family members. I know a lot of people that got fucked up.

Speaker 1 And people that don't want to admit they got fucked up, all of a sudden they have this new cancer that's spreading like rapidly yeah it's terrifying you know it's like

Speaker 1 um i watched the danny jones podcast and you guys were trying to get uh

Speaker 1 casey means

Speaker 1 cali means to talk about sv40

Speaker 1 right

Speaker 2 well my thing with callie i actually talked to him last night Just why he will not go on record to state the COVID shot should be pulled off the market.

Speaker 2 And that, you know, that's the whole ma, he's the head of my, I've been.

Speaker 1 You don't think that's being political? That's trying to appease too many people. What do you think that is?

Speaker 2 I can't read their minds, but

Speaker 2 I think anybody with a big microphone who is in a position of power and who knows the truth is ethically obligated to speak the truth. That's how I see it.
I mean, I'm not a politician.

Speaker 2 I keep hearing the word strategy.

Speaker 2 But there are, you know, there are people, I see, I'm just faced with the carnage every day in my office. It's just, I can't ignore it.
And I don't understand why this is so difficult, other than

Speaker 2 political, but it shouldn't be political.

Speaker 1 It shouldn't be. Right.
That's what's disappointing because we thought that this administration should come in and it was just going to kick down doors. Right.
Like, this is it.

Speaker 1 Epstein list day one: who killed JFK? Let's find out. What are all these fucking UFOs?

Speaker 1 That wasn't on my priority list.

Speaker 1 I'm mine. I'm a dummy.

Speaker 1 That was my number one.

Speaker 1 Out of those three, give me that that one.

Speaker 1 Tell me the aliens are real. But

Speaker 1 this political dance, this excuse for that. So I really appreciated

Speaker 1 Jack Cruz kind of pestering him on that. And then I've talked to Brett Weinstein about that as well.

Speaker 1 And he gave a breakdown of how it actually happened and when the original kidney cells from these monkeys were being used to make vaccines,

Speaker 1 that they inadvertently gave these people this simian virus 40, which when it gets into the human body can lead to rapid cancer. Right.

Speaker 2 Well yeah, that's one of the cancer-causing issues with these shots. That's not the only one though.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 It goes into the cell. It's supposed to not get into the nucleus, but it could get in the nucleus.
We know that it can get into the nucleus. And then if it gets in the nucleus.

Speaker 1 Well, at first they thought it was going to stay local.

Speaker 2 Right, right. It's only going to stay in the arm, right?

Speaker 1 It's only going to stay right where your arm is. Your body will react to it.
It'll produce the antibodies. And then you're good to to go.

Speaker 1 And then all these silly people, you can watch them die in the streets and laugh as you step over them. Ha ha ha.

Speaker 1 I was smart.

Speaker 1 I trusted the science.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So they know that that's not true. It doesn't stay local.
They know it doesn't dissipate within, it was a small amount of time that it was supposed to stay inside your body. They know that's not true.

Speaker 2 Right. So, yeah, they have they replaced one of the nucleotides with something that's hard to break down, pseudouuridine.
They've never shown that pseudouridine is cleared from the body.

Speaker 2 There's no study showing that we can clear it. So that could be why these people have these sky-high antibody levels four years later, because the body might not be able to break it down.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. That's terrifying.

Speaker 1 What could you conceive of

Speaker 1 that would help something like that? Like, what could you do that would aid the body in being able to do something like that? Is there anything theorized?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know. I wish, you know, Robert Malone would be a good person to ask maybe.

Speaker 1 Maybe we should come back on and do a

Speaker 1 victory lap anyway.

Speaker 1 That guy was torn apart.

Speaker 1 They were trying so hard to make him out to seem to be a kook. And every interview he would do, he would be so reasonable, so logical, so fact-based, and so knowledgeable.

Speaker 1 And they still, they still, he was a kook. He was a kook.
I remember some fucking guy yelled at me and

Speaker 1 excuse me, yelled at me in Vegas. He said something about me spreading disinformation.
Then he said something about that idiot Malone. I'm like, oh, that's

Speaker 1 the inventor of mRNA. Or one of them.
You know, I mean, it's, I don't know. I'm sure this, it's not like none of those things ever happen in a vacuum.
I'm sure there's a ton of people working on that.

Speaker 1 But he was one of them.

Speaker 1 He's a fucking brilliant guy.

Speaker 1 But so how did they find out that it can get into the nucleus?

Speaker 2 Well, if you look at lip, if you look at lipid nanoparticles, and that's sort of a, that's what, otherwise, if you just put mRNA into the body without the lipid nanoparticle, it would get destroyed.

Speaker 2 So, they put the they put it in the shell, the lipid nanoparticle. And there are studies showing lipid nanoparticles can cross the nuclear membrane.
So, there's there's that.

Speaker 2 Kevin McKernan is a scientist.

Speaker 2 He's on X a lot. He's done a lot of work in that showing DNA contamination that's getting into these

Speaker 2 shots

Speaker 2 in addition to the SV40 and he's DNA contamination. Right.
So there's,

Speaker 2 and this is what Joe Latipo, the Surgeon General of Florida, he has actually called for the COVID shots to be pulled off the market. And his

Speaker 2 main argument was there is a certain amount of DNA that is allowed in any kind of these products. And we have proof that they have exceeded that threshold.

Speaker 2 So there have been studies showing that there's excess DNA in these samples, which shouldn't be there. And that's just sort of this hard line that shouldn't be crossed.

Speaker 1 Where's this DNA coming from?

Speaker 2 In the production process, I guess.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 it's pretty cut and dry. I think that's why Dr.
Latipo has chosen this argument to go by,

Speaker 2 because there's just like a hard line that you don't cross, and they have crossed that.

Speaker 1 And what happens if you get too much DNA?

Speaker 2 Well, you can integrate.

Speaker 2 The concern is, does it integrate into your own, into your cell DNA?

Speaker 1 Are we going to make

Speaker 1 it monkey people?

Speaker 1 Can you imagine?

Speaker 1 But cancer, that's right. You imagine if we made like hybrid people, they turned out to look like Neanderthals.
You know, like we injected them with something that twisted their genes back.

Speaker 1 But just the idea of manipulating your DNA is so terrifying. It's like, what?

Speaker 2 In pregnant women, right? Right.

Speaker 1 Integrating.

Speaker 2 You know, it'd be one thing if it's a 70-year-old man, but a pregnant woman,

Speaker 1 integrate DNA. You don't think good things.
That's like immediately I'm like, what?

Speaker 2 And these things are technically gene therapy products. They're not vaccines.

Speaker 1 Which is a real problem with using the same term. Why not use a new term?

Speaker 1 Well, because then you wouldn't be under the umbrella of protection that vaccines currently enjoy where they can't be, which is so crazy. It's so crazy.
It's just hard to believe it's true.

Speaker 1 It really is. It is.
And so for a person like you, that just like you were saying, you see the carnage every day. Tell me what it's been like.
Like, what is it like?

Speaker 2 It's hard because

Speaker 2 as an ENT,

Speaker 2 I'm used to fixing people quickly. So, you know, I get somebody with a sinus infection, get them an antibiotic, they're good to go.
I get somebody with an abscess, I drain the abscess.

Speaker 2 They're good to go. It's sort of why I chose my specialty because I like to see the results quickly.
I didn't go into primary care for a reason.

Speaker 2 And so when I see the injured, it's like, you know, it's very slow growing, slow going. We don't don't have a lot of research.
It's trial and error. These people

Speaker 2 were previously young and healthy and their lives have just been completely destroyed. I don't have a big support system of other specialists I can send them to.

Speaker 2 It's hard. I mean, I don't feel sorry for myself, but I'm just saying it's just very different from...
what I'm used to as a doctor.

Speaker 2 So I really hope that the government will step up and do something about this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that would be a nice thing to hope to do something about it. But it would be really nice if some real research was done on what are the actual long-term effects.

Speaker 1 If everyone's looking at it from a position of we can't get sued for this, this is dangerous.

Speaker 1 Someone has to look at it and say, well, these are the definite effects of this vaccine because it's too much. This is long COVID.
It's too much.

Speaker 1 Oh, he got a neurological condition that was going to happen anyway. It just coincidentally happened after he took the COVID shot.

Speaker 1 Like, there's got to be some way to determine what of these ailments, like, specifically, like, when you were talking about the abnormal antibody levels. Like,

Speaker 2 well, there are patterns. I mean, I definitely see the same sort of things over and over again.
So, it's not like, you know.

Speaker 1 But as you said, it doesn't have a classification. Right.
It doesn't have a code.

Speaker 2 So we need an ICD-10 code for these.

Speaker 1 That seems kind of crazy. Yeah.
Well. Imagine if that was the case with like herpes.
It would be like, hey,

Speaker 1 put a damn code in there so we know what this is. Right.

Speaker 2 But there, you know, I see very similar constellation of symptoms. I see patients with these abnormal tremors, which,

Speaker 2 you know, they can't stop shaking even when they're sleeping. They feel internal vibrations.
Oh, jeez. Or they'll have severe pain that you can't explain.
You know, you get an MRI.

Speaker 2 There's nothing, there's no nerve damage that you can tell. I've seen some very strange rashes.

Speaker 2 And normally, you know, it doesn't matter what kind of rash it is, you throw a few meds at it and it will disappear.

Speaker 2 But actually, the only thing that I've found helpful is ivermectin for these strange rashes.

Speaker 2 And you see pots where the blood pressure, that's the hardest, I think. And this is,

Speaker 2 we're seeing a lot of this,

Speaker 2 where the blood pressure just drops suddenly with no stimulation or the heart races with no provocation.

Speaker 2 That is very common and very difficult to treat.

Speaker 1 That's a good friend of mine. Yeah.
He says every now and then his heart will just jack up to like 180. Yep.
And he has to sit down. And he just has to hope that this isn't the last time he breathes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He just sits there.
He has a heart monitor. He puts one of them wristwatch ones, the Garmin one, and just watches his heart jack up to like

Speaker 1 180 beats per minute, just sitting there for no reason, not knowing if you're going to die.

Speaker 1 Another friend of mine who was really young was a soccer player.

Speaker 1 Super healthy guy, super fit. Gets the vaccine.

Speaker 1 All of a sudden, giant heart racing in in the middle of the night, like out of control, like, you know, like you're running a seven-minute mile, just jacked. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he wound up in the hospital twice. They, nothing they could do.
It all went away. It stopped.
It went back to normal after a while.

Speaker 1 But now he's got this like terrible fear that he's got a fucking time bomb in his chest.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That out of nowhere would just, his heart would just ramp up. And you could say, like, oh, that was, it's probably a genetic thing.
He probably had it already. He was like, maybe.

Speaker 1 But this guy was super fit. Yeah.
Super fit soccer player.

Speaker 2 And that's the athletes, the sudden death and athletes. So it used to be 29 per year.
Now it's 290 per year. Growth 10 times.

Speaker 1 It's crazy. Dropping dead? The rarest of rare people to drop dead in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 1 The best athletes in the world, the people who are the healthiest in the prime of their life.

Speaker 2 Right. And I don't worry about these kids because.

Speaker 2 You know, myocarditis, the primary symptom is chest pain. But if you've got a kid who's not even speaking yet, you have no idea if they have myocarditis.

Speaker 2 And myocarditis can leave a permanent scar on the heart and then lead to a lifelong increased risk of sudden cardiac death.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 we have no idea if these kids have been affected.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and how many kids did we see dropped out of heart attacks in like high school football this year? Right. Like over the last four years rather.

Speaker 1 It was like you'd see these articles pop up all the time. You never saw those articles.
Or if you did, it was super rare.

Speaker 1 And it's some kid with a heart condition that was never diagnosed, which does happen.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and the schools are now making kids get cleared by a doctor before doing sports, which I don't remember that when we were kids.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah, they just threw us right onto the wrestling team.
They didn't check shit. They didn't even see if you had a cold.
Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I don't know.
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What's better? It's probably better to screen them.

Speaker 1 They'll find those undiagnosed conditions that kids can have.

Speaker 2 Well, I just think that I think it's in response to what's happening.

Speaker 1 Oh, it certainly is. But I mean, that might be the good aspect of it.
Maybe some people will get diagnosed that didn't have any idea that they were running around with the problem and they can fix it.

Speaker 2 But myocardium, it's hard to diagnose.

Speaker 2 Like, really, the only way you can diagnose myocarditis for sure is to do either a biopsy or a cardiac MRI, which is, you know, most kids are not going to be put through that.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 So it's

Speaker 2 scary.

Speaker 1 And it's what's crazy is this is all true, and yet us talking about it makes us both look like kooks. Like we then will be labeled for sure.

Speaker 1 Someone will go out and attack us now and label us anti-vax, anti-science, kooks. And this is what's dangerous about this conversation.
This is what's dangerous about what they said.

Speaker 1 And, you know, those people work for the devil.

Speaker 2 Well, do you think you'll get censored on YouTube? This interview? No. You don't? Because I was just on Jimmy Dore.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they had to bleep out out like a full sentence of mine i'm not bleeping out

Speaker 1 i'm not bleeping out shit you think it'll be okay uh we'll find out i i think it's wrong if it's not okay if it's not okay i think youtube is more reasonable now than they were uh during the pandemic and uh

Speaker 1 i think they have a very difficult job managing content at scale where you're dealing with you know

Speaker 1 the amount of people uploading things is insanity.

Speaker 1 And they have certain things that they've tagged as being controversial because they were anti-science or misinformation that it's still, there's like lingering ones.

Speaker 1 What was the issue that we had, Jamie? We had like an old episode where there was something in the old episode that would have violated their rules back then. It doesn't violate them now.

Speaker 1 But we, because the episode was uploaded back then, what happened with that?

Speaker 1 I had like a weird, at the time, the penalty was like a, you had to do something, and so like they couldn't take that step away. That was kind of the issue.
But the bottom line was

Speaker 1 everything this person said was true

Speaker 1 and proven to be true now. Now it's 100% fact.
So now you can say whatever you want. Like now if you say, hey, you know, it's super likely that that virus leaked from a lab in China.

Speaker 1 And now you can say that. Like back then, you would get attacked.
It would be crazy. You'd be called a racist.

Speaker 1 You'd be called the worst things possible if you just said like the wonderful Jon Stewart bit that he did on Colbert's Colbert's show. Did you ever see that bit?

Speaker 2 I can't remember. You want to refresh my memory?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Let's watch it because it's really hilarious.
This is like in the heart of the pandemic. You know, and Stephen Colbert was like vaccine or death.
You know, he was all in on it.

Speaker 1 And so Colbert was like trying to like halt him in the middle. He's doing a bit.
Jon Stewart's doing a bit. He's doing a funny bit.
And Colbert tries to like cock block it. He tries to like trip him.

Speaker 1 But Jon Stewart powers through. Like the comic that he is.
you find it? Don't tell me it was taken down. No, there's just two versions of it.
One's nine minutes, once four.

Speaker 1 All right, give us this one. All right.
This is it.

Speaker 1 And I honestly mean this. I think we owe a great debt of gratitude to science.
Science has, in many ways, helped ease

Speaker 1 the suffering of this pandemic,

Speaker 1 which was more than likely caused by science.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 And that's kind of.

Speaker 1 Hold on, I was there.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 Listen, listen.

Speaker 1 It's coffee. I wouldn't do that to you.
I wouldn't do that to you. I'm not sure if you can see it.
So, what do you think takes me?

Speaker 1 What do you mean by that? Do you mean like perhaps

Speaker 1 there's a chance that this was created in a lab, there's an investigation? A chance. Well, but

Speaker 1 there's evidence I'd love to hear. I think that's a good question.
There's a novel respiratory coronavirus overtaking Wuhan, China. What do we do? Oh, you know who we could ask?

Speaker 1 The Wuhan novel respiratory coronavirus lab. The disease is the same name as the lab.

Speaker 1 That's just a little too weird, don't you think? And then they ask those scientists, they're like, how did this... So wait a minute.
You work at the Wuhan Respiratory Coronavirus Lab.

Speaker 1 How did this happen? And they're like, a pangolin pangolin kissed a turtle.

Speaker 1 And you're like, no,

Speaker 1 if you look at the name,

Speaker 1 look at the name. Can I let me see your business card? Show me your business card.
Oh, I work at the coronavirus lab in Wuhan. Oh, because there's a coronavirus loose in Wuhan.
How did that happen?

Speaker 1 Maybe a bat flew into the cloaca of a turkey and then it sneezed into my chili and now we all have coronavirus. Like, come on.
Okay, wait, okay. Wait a second.
What about this? What about this?

Speaker 1 Listen to this. Wait a second.
All right.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 There's been an outbreak of chocolatey goodness near Hershey, Pennsylvania. What do you think happened? Like, oh, I don't know.
Maybe a steam shovel made it with a cocoa bean. Or it's the

Speaker 1 chocolate factory

Speaker 1 maybe that's it that could be

Speaker 1 that could be

Speaker 1 cobert kept trying to get in the way that that could be let me i gave them all tuberculosis

Speaker 1 that could that could very well be and Anthony Fauci and Francis Collins and NIH said like this should definitely be investigated stop with the logic and people and things. The name of the disease

Speaker 1 building. Wait a second.

Speaker 1 But it could be possible, you could be right, it could be possible that they have the lab in Wuhan to study the novel coronavirus diseases because in Wuhan there are a lot of novel coronavirus diseases because of the bat population there.

Speaker 1 I understand. It's like the same thing.
It's a local specialty and it's the only place to find bats. You won't find bats.
No, but it's like saying

Speaker 1 Austin, Texas has thousands of them that fly out of a cave every night. Every night at dusk.
Is there a coronavirus in Austin coronavirus? No, it doesn't seem to be an Austin coronavirus.

Speaker 1 The only coronavirus we have is in Wuhan,

Speaker 1 Texas, where they have a lab called, what's the lab called again, Stephen? The Wuhan novel coronavirus lab. I believe that's the case.
And how long have you worked for Senator Ron Johnson?

Speaker 1 Let me tell you something.

Speaker 1 Let me tell you something about Ron Johnson.

Speaker 1 This is not a conspiracy.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing that I'm fired. You could be right.

Speaker 1 You could be right. But this is the problem with science.
Science is incredible. But they don't know when to stop.
And nobody in the room with those cats.

Speaker 1 He's going to do the other thing that we already saw. Yeah.
The other thing we talked about, the Spanish flu, which a lot of people never heard that before either. They did what?

Speaker 1 Isn't that great? That's one of the best segments ever on late night television, ever, in the history.

Speaker 2 Emperor wears no clothes. And

Speaker 2 Colbert, thanks to Emperor, still has a fancy robe on.

Speaker 1 Well, this is the job of comedians in society at certain times. And Jon Stewart, he held the torch.

Speaker 2 I didn't realize he was enlightened.

Speaker 1 Well, he's a very smart guy. He's just, he's not a bullshitter.
You know, he's a very smart guy. I don't agree with him on everything.

Speaker 2 Has he come around on the shot?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know.
I haven't spoken to him. He lives in another state.
But I love the guy. He's great.
And he's...

Speaker 1 He was my favorite comedian

Speaker 2 when I was younger.

Speaker 1 He's a a great comic. Very funny guy and a very nice guy and very fair and honest.

Speaker 1 He's, you know, like the type of person who can do that on television in the middle of the shit, which is what it was.

Speaker 1 This was like right around the same time where the government was, where they made that, remember that release that they had?

Speaker 1 They said, for the vaccinated, you've done your job, but for the unvaccinated, you're looking forward to a winter of illness and death. Severe illness illness and death.
Severe. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 Severe illness and death. And this was during Omicron, which statistically was a cold.
Right. That was the one that

Speaker 1 had the least mortality.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So for him to do that during that time was very courageous. Like he had to know, like, but he just had to make it really funny, which he did.
Yeah. He just, he named it.

Speaker 1 It's so preposterous because it's so on the nose. You almost think like if that was in a movie, like that would be too, like it was a Cohen Brothers movie or something.

Speaker 1 Like, oh my God, this movie's ridiculous. Like, there's no way it would be named this same as the lab.

Speaker 2 Did he get smeared for it?

Speaker 1 I don't think he did. No, John skirted out of that.

Speaker 1 He had a show with Apple for a while, and it was really good. But then I think, I don't want to speak out of turn here, but I do all the time, so I might as well.

Speaker 1 I think there was an issue with an episode they did on China. Is that the case? Let's see if there's like data on that or if there's a story on that.
But they stopped doing that show.

Speaker 1 So he you had like an Apple show.

Speaker 1 You know, because Apple TV produces a lot of shows now. They have Severance.
You ever watch Severance?

Speaker 2 No, I'm watching Righteous Gemstones now.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. That's a good show.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. That is such a funny show.
I didn't even hear about it until like this year. There's almost too many great shows.
I know.

Speaker 2 It's hard to keep up.

Speaker 1 That show is fantastic.

Speaker 2 That show is so funny. I think it's modeled after Joel Osteen.
Is it really? That's my theory. And I pass by his church every day.
So.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's something about those guys, those guys that run the mega churches. Like, you gotta be crazy.
Like, not one of them is like, oh, that guy makes sense. That guy seems

Speaker 1 super, super reasonable, normal human being. That's like, I like that guy.

Speaker 1 I want him as my pastor. No, it's always like some complete kook.

Speaker 1 In October, the New York Times reported that Apple canceled the comedy show ahead of its third season due to creative differences and execs' concerns over Stewart's coverage of topics such as China and AI.

Speaker 1 Okay. The China, I get it.
Apple has contracts with China, right? They have cell phones made in China, and they actually have to, we did a story about that the other day. We were

Speaker 1 read a story the other day about how the iPhone 17 is so complex that it actually has to be manufactured in China because they have the best manufacturing.

Speaker 1 So they must have some sort of a thing where you're like, you can't criticize.

Speaker 1 You're going to fuck it all up for us. You're going to fuck it all up for the production of our phones that we need that we make all this money, which is why we have more money than most countries.

Speaker 2 Well, I don't see how Jon Stewart would be a threat to their revenue.

Speaker 1 I just don't think they want him criticizing, you know,

Speaker 1 China. But the AI one is even more weird.
The AI one is even more weird. Because it's like,

Speaker 1 don't you think we should make fun of AI?

Speaker 1 Don't you think there should be like something that scares the shit out of people enough till they wake up and recognize that this thing is coming at us like a freight train. There's no guardrails.

Speaker 1 No one knows what's going to happen. And everybody's like, full steam ahead.

Speaker 2 AI terrifies me.

Speaker 1 It should. It does.
Well, it's because you're intelligent. You know, I think most intelligent people are aware that this will be a change that is akin to the asteroid that hit the Yucatan.

Speaker 1 This is going to hit in some crazy way that redefines what what it means to be a human being it's around the corner well yeah and you know texas they love ai they're like put a huge amount of money into ai oh fun texas oh fun yeah

Speaker 2 i know you love texas

Speaker 1 i ooh it is not it is not what you think no i need to i need to wake you up on texas well i like the fact that it was free during the time where California was not. You could do whatever you wanted.

Speaker 1 Relatively, right. But in my business and for what I do, like stand-up comedy and letting people tell you what you can and can't do, I don't like that.
Right.

Speaker 1 You know, and here they've had a more rebellious spirit in that regard.

Speaker 2 So I think healthcare, though, is turning Texas blue.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 We have, like, Houston is home to the largest medical center in the world. And it brings in people from all over.
And I think mandates started in Texas for a reason.

Speaker 2 I think they did it here to test the waters. They knew if they could

Speaker 2 get away with it in Texas, they could get away with it anywhere.

Speaker 1 Oh, don't make me move to Florida. No, I don't even think, I know, I think Idaho.

Speaker 2 Florida's not getting good either.

Speaker 1 Idaho is cold as fuck. Jamie can't live.
Look at him over there. He can't survive.
He got out of Ohio and he developed thin blood.

Speaker 2 But yeah, Texas, I just, I think it's a

Speaker 2 we have, so Texas Medical Association, largest medical association in the country. They are

Speaker 2 really proponents of transgender surgery and minors.

Speaker 2 They are anti-free speech for physicians.

Speaker 2 They are pro-mandate. They've gone after me.

Speaker 2 And they have a tight control over the people in our house and state.

Speaker 2 So I just think we need to be careful.

Speaker 2 You saw it during the pandemic and

Speaker 2 the medical, the economy of our state is dominated by health. And people don't realize that.
They just think oil. But health is a huge dominating factor in our economy.
And

Speaker 2 you saw what they did to me, what they're still doing to me. You see the mandates.

Speaker 2 And I don't know if you've been following what's going on in the House, but

Speaker 2 our House is divided. So we've got the

Speaker 2 freedom, the real true freedom-loving representatives. And then we have these pseudo-Republicans who who do control everything,

Speaker 2 but they are basically Democrats in disguise.

Speaker 2 And I don't know, it really worries me. Idaho just passed a bill, the best medical freedom bill in the country.

Speaker 2 It eliminates all medical mandates, except for hospitals, of course.

Speaker 2 But it's the first one of its kind where medical mandates are finally outlawed. Because I mean, you think about it,

Speaker 2 you know, all these vaccines that we have to give our kids to go to school is actually fundamentally wrong. We should not mandate any child to get a shot to go to school.

Speaker 2 And in Europe, half the countries don't have those kind of mandates. But the United States, it's very common.
You know, all kids have to get these shots to go to school.

Speaker 2 And if you opt out, it's a big deal. And some states don't even allow it, don't even allow exemptions.

Speaker 2 So I think it's a wake-up call. Like, I just, I never thought about the whole, the fact that I had to give my kids these shots to go to school as being an issue.

Speaker 2 But now that COVID happened, I see it as a huge issue.

Speaker 2 But Florida, you know, Florida's been kind of behind it too. Like, you know, they're not one of the states trying to get ivermectin over the counter.

Speaker 2 There were nine states that tried to pass bills banning mRNA. They all failed.
But Florida wasn't one of those. So Florida worries me, too.

Speaker 1 Idaho.

Speaker 2 Idaho. Idaho.

Speaker 2 They have good skiing there.

Speaker 1 It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 I quit skiing a few years back. My last accident.
I'm like, I'm done.

Speaker 2 Ski. I love skiing.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's fun. Don't get hurt.
Don't get hurt. Don't get hurt.
Didn't get hurt. Don't get hurt.
That's how I feel every time I ski. But I've had a bunch of surgeries.
That's a problem.

Speaker 1 Like, I know the vulnerability of knees. Yeah.
I've had three knee surgeries. Yeah.
It's like,

Speaker 1 it's rough on you. You know, but it is fun.
We

Speaker 1 go.

Speaker 1 It's just for me, like, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. There's a bunch of other stuff that's a lot more fun that doesn't come with risk of broken bones and concussions.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know. I like roller coasters for fun, but other than that, I can't.

Speaker 1 You're one of those.

Speaker 2 I'm not, no, I'm not full on, but uh, I don't know. Have you the new roller coasters? Have you been on them recently?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. I have kids.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're much better.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's not like the ones we grew up with. No, some of the ones, like Disneyland has some insane ones.
The one, the Incredibles ride. Have you ever done that one?

Speaker 2 Whoa, I like Guardians of the Galaxy.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's great.

Speaker 1 That one's fun. That one's really fun.
Yeah. Disney.
You know what's the best ride? It's in Disney World. It's an Avatar 3

Speaker 1 virtual reality ride. It's incredible.
Is that

Speaker 1 Florida or California? Florida.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. I think I did that.

Speaker 1 I think it's called Flights of Fantasy or something like that. It's incredible.
Like you are one of the Avatar people and you fly around on a dragon. And it's so good.
It's so good.

Speaker 1 It just, like, you feel the breeze, you feel mist in the air. At a certain point, I'm realizing while I'm doing this, I'm like, this wasn't even remotely possible just 20 years ago.

Speaker 1 Like, what is it going to look like 20 years from now? Like, I'm not going to have any idea. They're going to put a helmet on me.
It's going to like sync up with my brain. Ready, brain sink.

Speaker 1 And all of a sudden, you're going to be in that world. You're like, whoa.
And we're going to trust those people to let us out.

Speaker 1 You know, that's 100% coming.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm happy with the roller coaster. I'll stick with that.

Speaker 1 It's not worth it. It's not as good.

Speaker 1 You take the brain thing, get in the avatar world.

Speaker 1 I get sick on those rides.

Speaker 2 The ones where the 3D, I get kind of nauseous.

Speaker 1 This one, you're on like a motorcycle, like a fake motorcycle, and that's to represent the dragon, you know, and you have like a handle you hold on to, and it starts moving you around. Shit.

Speaker 1 So, like, as you're flying, it's like it's a full sensory experience.

Speaker 2 I think I did that, and my kids made fun of me because I was screaming on it.

Speaker 1 You did that one there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, a couple years ago. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I haven't done it since. It's so good.
Such a a good ride. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Speaker 1 And when you connect that to AI, so it tailors something that's specific for your whatever crazy fantasy you want to do. We already have video games where people can murder people.

Speaker 1 Like, that's like the most popular video game is Grand Theft Auto. And one of the things that people love about it is you could beat some mechanics to death for no reason.

Speaker 2 Do you think that allows people to get out their frustrations, though, in a healthier way?

Speaker 1 Perhaps. I would recommend martial arts.
I think that would be a healthier way.

Speaker 1 But I think more than anything, what it does is allows you to disassociate and just to be able to, because it doesn't mean anything. It's not really a person that's getting beat to death.

Speaker 1 But the imagery is obviously of a person that's getting beat to death. And you're able to do it with no consequences, no recourse, no bad karma.

Speaker 1 You don't even feel bad because it's a part of the game.

Speaker 1 You know, there was, what was that one where you could drag people,

Speaker 1 the Wild West one, where you could beat people with whips?

Speaker 1 Red Dawn Redemption. Red Dead Redemption, but Red Dead Redemption.
Crazy games where you can do horrible things to people.

Speaker 1 Like, what is it going to be like when you have video games that are actually virtual reality, completely immersive, and you could just be a serial kicker? You can be Jack the Ripper.

Speaker 1 They give you a knife, and now you're in London in the 1800s, and you're Jack the Ripper.

Speaker 2 Why do people create these?

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Speaker 1 Just go to simply simplysafe.com/slash Rogan. That's simplysafe.com/slash Rogan.
There's no safe like simply safe. Because they can, right? It's like what Jon Stewart said about the nuclear bomb.

Speaker 1 Like, why do they do that? Well, and this is the same thing. This is the parallel to the Manhattan Project because we're not the only ones that are trying to find

Speaker 1 to the solution of what is like the ultimate expression of AI in its current form, like super intelligent, sentient, artificial intelligence, like something that's going to be godlike power and ability.

Speaker 1 China's working on it too. We have to work on it.
If we don't work, like, so everybody's like, hang on. And we're like, nope,

Speaker 1 just China's working on it. We have to do it.
We have to get there first. So this is, it's just like the Manhattan Project.
And I don't think it's going to matter.

Speaker 1 I think once we get there, it's going to be so weird for everybody.

Speaker 1 I think civilization is going to be an upheaval.

Speaker 1 And I think we're entirely attached to the idea that this civilization that we live under, where our money is all in hard drives and it's all ones and zeros on a database somewhere, not even backed up by gold anymore, it's all super weird already.

Speaker 1 Like this is standard forever. I don't think it is.

Speaker 2 I don't know. I feel like there may be a backlash because there's this wanting to do real things and do real experiences.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think there'll be a few hikers.

Speaker 1 There'll be a few hikers. A few people around you.

Speaker 2 I mean, when you're on your computer all day, the first thing I want to do is just get outside and get away from all that. And so

Speaker 2 your hope is that there's going to be a backlash.

Speaker 1 Well, there'll be a few, right? It's just like there's people that are still pro-vaccine today, right? They're still pro-mRNA vaccine. I can't wait for a new booster.

Speaker 1 There's people that are out there like that, right? You're always going to have different kinds of people. You're never going to have one thing where everybody adopts it.

Speaker 1 There's going to be a bunch of people that want to live a subsistence lifestyle in the woods forever. Let all those morons in New York put their helmets on and live in fucking Avatar land.

Speaker 1 I'm going to live out here in the real world. But if you think about how many people play games today versus how many people played games 30 years ago, it's off the charts, right?

Speaker 1 Like, what are the numbers? Like, when I was a child, it was when they had Pong. That was the first one.

Speaker 2 Do you remember that? Yeah, it was in the Sears store. Do you remember that? You go shopping for jeans and

Speaker 2 play the game.

Speaker 1 That's where you buy your tools.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Toughskins.
Yeah. And that was revolutionary.
You could play a game on television, and it was a really simple game.

Speaker 1 And you'd be playing ping-pong with this slow-moving ping-pong ball. And it was fun.
We all loved it. Family would gather around, play ping-pong,

Speaker 1 and then you fast-forward to Call of Duty. Like, that's insane.
Like, that is insane. These kids are, they have microphones on, they're talking, they're running through Fallujah, gunning people down.

Speaker 1 Like, this is crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So the numbers. The kids went through that phase, but they seem now to be sort of disinterested.
Like, they, they kind of. You did a good job.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't know. I didn't do anything.

Speaker 1 It just happened.

Speaker 1 Oh, I think a lot of kids are disinterested because they realize that the beck and call of life and becoming a success is you cannot get too wrapped up in these things because they will steal your time.

Speaker 1 But my point is that the amount of people that are allowing it to steal their time today, and I know you're enjoying it, steal your time is a bad thing. Like, have fun.
Play your games. I love them.

Speaker 1 They're fun. But I can't do them.
There's too much. See, they're too exciting.
They're too good. But these are just the beginning.

Speaker 1 What we're experiencing now with Call of Duty and first-person shooters that everybody loves, in comparison to what's going to happen when they put that thing on your head, and then all of a sudden you really are on Battleship Troopers.

Speaker 1 What was that movie? Where they fought the aliens? Starship Troopers. Starship Troopers.
Did you ever see that one? No. Great movie.
But it's the future.

Speaker 1 Or, you know, they're fighting off aliens, giant alien bugs. You could be in that.
You could be in it. Feel the sand on your feet.
Feel the wind in your face.

Speaker 1 Smell the breath of the beast as you shoot it down. It's going to be too compelling.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Either that or go work at the supermarket.

Speaker 1 You're in the supermarket all day. You want to play pickup basketball? You suck at basketball, keep hitting bricks.
I think the answer is roller coasters. No,

Speaker 1 no, no, no. I don't know.

Speaker 1 I just think it's just

Speaker 1 a test of civilization, and

Speaker 1 it's probably

Speaker 1 something that is changing our species and changing it really quickly before we even realize it. Like just like we changed wolves into dogs, it's turning us into technology-dependent, gelatinous

Speaker 1 water balloons of blood.

Speaker 2 That's dark. It is dark.

Speaker 2 I think they'll take over doctors. Yeah, they're going to.

Speaker 1 They're going to take over lawyers, doctors. They're probably going to take over a lot of actors.
I think actors and even screenwriters are in real trouble.

Speaker 2 Wait, wait, wait. How do you take over an actor?

Speaker 1 Because these AI videos now are insane. They're so good.
Wow.

Speaker 1 Have you ever seen the one where there's stand-up comedians talking on stage about how, and there's people out there that believe that we're a prompt?

Speaker 1 And then they're going to people in scenes of movies that are like, like saying, do you really believe this is a prompt?

Speaker 1 And there's Vikings, like incredible Viking village where you're like walking down the village. It's all AI.
And it looks like Hollywood movie quality.

Speaker 1 It looks like some crazy new blockbuster that's out about Vikings. They have Cro-Magnum Man walking, you know, like, like hunting on a raft, moving through the

Speaker 1 frozen lake. The whole thing is nuts.
It's so good. It's so, and it keeps getting better.
Like, this is insanely good compared to what just existed a couple of months ago. Like, a year ago.

Speaker 1 Like, there's, you, it's unrecognizable. We could, like,

Speaker 1 computers move so slow in comparison. Like, think about when, when did, when did you first get your first computer?

Speaker 2 Hmm, probably medical school.

Speaker 1 What year was that?

Speaker 2 So that was like 1998.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you're probably running Windows 98, right? It kind of worked, but it was a little buggy. Sometimes it would crash.
You get the blue screen at death.

Speaker 1 Then within like five years, they got way better, 10 years they got way better. But now, if you look at a, if you have a laptop now in 2025 versus a laptop from 2020, no difference.

Speaker 1 No, I have an old MacBook that I use sometimes because I like it because it's clickier keyboards. And it's fucking old as shit.
It's really old. Like, it seems like a regular laptop.

Speaker 1 It's not that much different. The AI from then was nothing.
It didn't exist. And now it's making movies that are off the charts.

Speaker 1 Unbelievably realistic.

Speaker 1 And this is just one version of it. They're going to have a way better version of it a month from now, a way better version of it six months from now.
And where does that end? Like, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 It doesn't end. And who knows what the news is now? You know how many times someone sent me something on Twitter and I thought, wow, that's crazy war footage.

Speaker 1 And it turns out it was just from a video game? Wow. Yeah, that people get duped.
They see a plane getting shot down. They think it's real.
Like, wow. No, it's just a scene in a video game.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I haven't seen these videos.

Speaker 2 I've seen photos that look very realistic. I haven't seen these videos.
I'll have to go check that out.

Speaker 1 They're too good. They're too good.

Speaker 1 And this race to AI is, you know, we're all involved in it. And I worry that it's not in our best interest, just like I worry that

Speaker 1 our health system is compromised. I worry about it all.
I worry there's a lot of people that are going to be insanely wealthy once this goes live.

Speaker 1 Like, once this goes live, the haves versus the have-nots will be so far separated.

Speaker 2 But how do you make money off of AI?

Speaker 1 You control everything. First of all, the stock market.

Speaker 1 You figure out the stock market immediately and bet insane amounts of wealth at things and compound it and figure out when to buy and when to sell instantaneously.

Speaker 1 You could even use AI to manipulate markets by having a bunch of bots tweet about something.

Speaker 1 So you didn't even jack up a stock price and then you would go in and clean up.

Speaker 1 You would create crypto coins, unlimited amounts of crypto coins, dump tons of money in it, hire hire celebrities they wouldn't even know, hire them to promote the crypto coin, pull the wool out from everybody, make billions of dollars.

Speaker 1 And you just do that over and over and over and over again, instantaneously all around the world. Then you have all the money.

Speaker 1 Like AI, if you're in control of AI and AI is

Speaker 1 artificial super intelligence, and you tell it, make me as much money as you can as quickly as possible in the stock market.

Speaker 1 This is what we have. We We have $100 million to invest.
We have a billion dollars to invest. If you're already wealthy, if you're a huge company already, you could do something like that.

Speaker 1 And who knows what kind of an effect that would have? You could manipulate world governments instantaneously. You could cut off pipelines.
You could sabotage power grids.

Speaker 1 You could shut down energy plants. You could do all kinds of things.
You could insert viruses into systems that control every aspect of society instantaneously.

Speaker 1 You crack all, especially once they figure out how to attach AI to quantum computing, then we're doomed. Then we're really doomed because then you don't have any computational problems.

Speaker 1 You have insane amounts of computational power.

Speaker 1 And it's all in our lifetime. Like that's what's nuts.
It's like

Speaker 1 this will be if people survive and there's like

Speaker 1 a golden age. thousands of years from now where they find the relics of this civilization and they go look through and they figure out how to open up hard

Speaker 1 And they see us having this conversation about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's going to be weird.
It's going to be like, oh, they saw it coming. They did it anyway.

Speaker 1 Well, how do we stop it?

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 2 I think Elon Musk was sounding the alarm, and he can't stop it.

Speaker 1 Not only did he not stop it, he joined in.

Speaker 1 I think that's the idea: you have to do it because other people are doing it. And if they get a hold of it first, it'd be catastrophic.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure I screwed up a lot of possibilities in in that little stupid rant of mine. But

Speaker 1 it's something I think people need to have in their head because this isn't something that's not going to affect you. Like, oh, that's not going to affect me.

Speaker 1 I don't really have to pay attention to the politics in Poland. It's not going to affect me.
You know, you can do that. With this one, you can't do it with because it's going to affect all of us.

Speaker 1 In the world, you're not going to know what the news is. You think Rolling Stone fooled us with that stupid picture from Oklahoma with a bunch of people that are gunshot victims waiting in line?

Speaker 2 They should have used AI for their picture.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right? But

Speaker 1 that's a good point because that was only a couple of years ago. Today they probably would.
But this is, you know, that's a clear lie and it's a bad one.

Speaker 1 What about the really good ones, the really well-coordinated ones that are using artificial created images? Like, how are we going to know?

Speaker 1 How are we going to know? Like, when I Google something, I'm not going to go do clinical research. I'm not going to test these things to make sure it's correct myself.

Speaker 1 If you're in control of all the information on the internet, like you can instantaneously create a bunch of websites with fake data on it.

Speaker 1 You could do that easily, especially if people don't have access to the ability to actually make their own tests. You could change everything.

Speaker 1 If you have AI, you're hacking into this and all the encryptions. Bye-bye.
Everything's bye-bye.

Speaker 1 All these little roadblocks that we kept up there to keep our feeble primate brains from cracking these these codes. Like all that stuff goes away.

Speaker 1 It's going to get real weird. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 2 I don't have an answer.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I'm going to have to go get a bunker after this podcast.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 I don't think it's going to be that bad, but I do think it's going to be really,

Speaker 1 it's going to change

Speaker 1 just society as we know it. I mean, there's probably going to be a lot of good aspects of it, too.
I think the medical aspect of it is pretty amazing.

Speaker 1 Chat GPT alone, when you can put in your blood work and can give you some...

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 2 I put in an MRI that I had of my own, and it missed it. Totally missed it.

Speaker 2 I mean, it was Grok. It was not ChatGPT.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Which one's the best at that? I don't know.

Speaker 2 I don't like chat GPT.

Speaker 1 But there's some other really good ones, too, right?

Speaker 2 All I use is Grok.

Speaker 1 That's it?

Speaker 1 You're a hardcore rallying.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 I don't don't trust chat. I don't trust Grok, but I certainly don't trust chat and GBT.

Speaker 1 Well, I was listening to someone talk about a new program that is, you know, they have Pegasus, so Pegasus can read your phone. This new program is a zero-click.

Speaker 1 It reads everything in your phone, including your encrypted messages. You have no idea if you have it on there or not.

Speaker 1 There's no way to detect it. And

Speaker 1 it's been being used. It's used currently.

Speaker 2 What's the name of it?

Speaker 1 I don't know, Jamie. See if you could find out the name of it.
The old one was Pegasus. The new one is a similar preposterous name.

Speaker 1 Is it

Speaker 2 Palantir?

Speaker 1 I don't. No, that's a different thing.
I think Ian Carroll was talking about it.

Speaker 1 But so then, okay, so you don't have any privacy anymore. So then your text messages don't have any privacy anymore.

Speaker 2 I just assume I don't have any privacy anymore.

Speaker 1 If it wasn't for Elon Musk buying Twitter, can you imagine how weird the world would be right now? Yeah, weird.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's so fortunate. I was kicked off for five months.

Speaker 1 What did you do that got you kicked off?

Speaker 2 I really, I was kind of timid back then compared to what I say now. I really wasn't that.

Speaker 2 But I had a tweet that went viral, and it was

Speaker 2 America First Legal was suing the CDC over

Speaker 2 some email. I can't remember exactly, but it was something like, oh, American First Legal has just exposed a CDC, and it went viral.
And then that was my last tweet. I was erased for five months.

Speaker 1 What excuse did they give you?

Speaker 2 I don't remember, you know, violating community standards.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 What did that feel like? Ugh.

Speaker 2 And then I got on, and then I tried to get on Truth and Getter. It's just not the same, right? You just don't get that feedback.

Speaker 1 You know what I think about those things, too? And Gab as well. I think they're all infested with like

Speaker 1 out-of-state actors, other countries, other countries, intelligence agencies, and even our own countries. And then even corporations.
I think they're infected.

Speaker 1 I think even like Democratic and Republican operatives, I think a lot of the traffic is bots.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, I see that on Twitter, definitely.

Speaker 1 100%. It's almost not worth engaging anymore.
It's like, what are we doing here? Like, you're arguing with someone who's not even a real person. And I think that's like, that's a big part of it.

Speaker 1 And I think in those other alternative platforms, like Truth, I think they do that to make them ridiculous for everybody else.

Speaker 1 You know, so the last thing they want is a bunch of people competing to see who's the freest. Right.
Right. So what's the best way to do that?

Speaker 1 Well, you have to sabotage this new social media platform the moment it comes out. The moment it comes out.
Swastikas,

Speaker 1 Pepe the Frog, the worst possible things. Post as much as you can so that this place becomes toxic.
Right. You know?

Speaker 1 So that you have to have like a zero tolerance policy like Blue Sky does. You go to Blue Sky if you tweet there are only two genders.
Bam! Get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 2 I was on Blue Sky for a bit.

Speaker 1 How long? How long did you last?

Speaker 2 I don't know. Yeah,

Speaker 2 I slid in before it was open to the public. And I started stirring the pot.

Speaker 2 And then I just got and got bored. I got in some fights with,

Speaker 2 God, who's that woman?

Speaker 2 She's a lawyer. She's a big vaccine enthusiast.

Speaker 1 Vaccine enthusiast is hilarious.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 She really loves hockey.

Speaker 2 She's like the female version of Hotez.

Speaker 2 Anyway, I just got it.

Speaker 1 Lena when?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 I can't remember. I know what she looks like, but I don't want to say it.

Speaker 1 I don't want to. No worries.
You don't have to say it. So, what was that like? Blue Sky? Yeah.
When you got into it with her?

Speaker 2 I mean, whatever. Yeah, I've gotten so many fights on X.
It's not really.

Speaker 2 it's just funny.

Speaker 2 You know, when, when, before Methodists went after me, I got in some fights on Facebook with, you know, these private groups, and they're a bunch of women that get together, the neighborhood women's group.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy. Vicious.
Just barely vicious.

Speaker 2 And it was the Houston Women's Physicians Group.

Speaker 2 And they called me Bertha. And they like started, they were like,

Speaker 1 Bertha. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Why Bertha?

Speaker 2 I got mad at them. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Why did they call you Bertha?

Speaker 2 I don't know. They just,

Speaker 2 they were like, we don't want you in our group. You should go find another group.
And you're spreading misinformation.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 things like that.

Speaker 2 And there's a neighborhood group that went after me.

Speaker 2 Those are more, I don't really care about the anonymous ex people.

Speaker 2 But I had a couple, I had mama Dr. Jones, who has a million followers on TikTok, come after me and make videos about me.
And

Speaker 2 another, there's this.

Speaker 1 Saying you spread misinformation.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah and that I'm a grifter and

Speaker 1 that was they always throw that one oh yeah yeah

Speaker 2 there's this pharmacist Savannah she goes by our exorcist and she has an OnlyFans account on the side

Speaker 2 she's come after me like just vicious I mean these some of these women are just

Speaker 1 oh no really toxic yeah when they have the right to be that's the thing it's like when they feel like they've got the green light to just be as evil as possible and to turn you into like some subhuman

Speaker 1 Yeah, especially if they don't like it because you're a doctor. I just think she's so smart.
Spreading that misinformation in our neighborhood.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So overall,

Speaker 1 coming out of it on the other side though, and do you feel a sense of vindication at least?

Speaker 1 Like, because the public has embraced you and you've you've got a lot of followers on Twitter that support you, you know, after I'm sure the Danny Jones podcast, I'm sure that a lot of people were were listening to your story.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, it's yes and no. I mean, I still have a medical board that I'm dealing with.
Methodist Hospital just sued me.

Speaker 2 So there's just, there's still a lot of drama, unfortunately. But, you know, I have hope.

Speaker 2 There's actually a lawsuit today that's first jury trial in the country over these hospital protocols. where they had a young woman with Down syndrome.
They basically euthanized her.

Speaker 2 They gave her a DNR order, even though she didn't have one. And the father has just been wonderful.
It's a Shara family.

Speaker 1 Why did they do that?

Speaker 1 They euthanized her for what?

Speaker 2 I've seen this. I have reviewed records from these hospital patients and they'll euthanize them.
They need the bed. They say, well, they're going to die anyway.

Speaker 1 What was this person in the hospital for?

Speaker 2 COVID.

Speaker 2 COVID protocol.

Speaker 1 And they, wait, wait, wait. So they were in the hospital with COVID and they gave them something to kill them? Yeah.

Speaker 2 That happened all. I'm sorry, but I hate, I mean, that happened.
People, they give them morphine and insulin.

Speaker 1 And yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's common?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I've reviewed charts. In this situation, they gave her a DNR, which is do not resuscitate, meaning if they look like they're dying, you don't do anything, which that was not the case.

Speaker 2 So they're suing for battery, which is one way of getting around the PrEP Act, because the PrEP Act is very hard to penetrate.

Speaker 2 The PrEP Act protects everybody, all the doctors, all the hospitals from any wrongdoing during COVID. So it's been this big challenge trying to get around the PrEP Act.

Speaker 2 And this case has hope of getting around the PrEP Act because they're charging for battery and they're in trial. It started today.
It's in Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 So that gives me hope. I don't know if you've heard of Brooke Jackson, her case.
She sued Pfizer. She was a whistleblower.
So she was one of the heads of the research clinics.

Speaker 2 And she was in charge of overseeing the protocols. And she found that they were skipping necessary steps.
They weren't following up with injuries. She basically became a whistleblower.

Speaker 2 And then they've immediately fired her. And now she's suing Pfizer.
But this has been going on since 2020.

Speaker 2 And the DOJ, unfortunately, has stepped in and tried to shut down the case, case, which normally the DOJ comes in and helps people when they're trying to

Speaker 2 sort out a

Speaker 2 this is a Key TAM case.

Speaker 2 And I mean, it could bankrupt Pfizer, but now our own government, and even this is under Pam Bondi, so this is the new DOJ, is coming in to stop this case from happening, which is bothersome.

Speaker 1 But these two cases are not... What is their argument for why are they trying to stop it?

Speaker 2 Because it would impact public health policies. It would go against our country's public public health policies by proceeding with this case and letting it go to trial.

Speaker 1 How so?

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 That is basically what they said.

Speaker 1 Have you tried to steal me on what they're saying?

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm not, it's not my case, and I don't, you know, the lawyer would probably have a better explanation. But

Speaker 2 it's just met with so many roadblocks.

Speaker 2 But.

Speaker 1 The euthanizing one is still stuck in my head. I just, I can't imagine that that's real.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. It is definitely real.
I mean, it's not.

Speaker 1 So it's when they determine that someone's going to die anyway, is that what it is?

Speaker 2 Right. I mean,

Speaker 2 they'll justify giving morphine because they'll say, oh, well, they're struggling to breathe. Well, guess what? Morphine actually depresses your drive to breathe.

Speaker 2 But like this one case I remember, this patient, he was sick. He looked like he was dying, but they just like pushed morphine.
He had no pain. You know, they do a pain score, so zero to 10.

Speaker 2 This guy had zero pain.

Speaker 2 And then they pushed insulin to drop his sugar, and his glucose was fine. And then he died three minutes later.
And I turned him into the medical board.

Speaker 2 I reviewed this chart and turned him in the medical board. Nothing.
They didn't do anything. But yeah, they definitely, that definitely went on during COVID.

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 1 That is such a terrifying thought that someone would just decide so many people are dying. This guy's definitely going to die.

Speaker 1 Yeah. This is 100% real.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
Definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It seems like something someone would tell me. Euthanasia.

Speaker 2 They don't call it euthanasia.

Speaker 1 It seems like something that someone would tell me, and then I would have to ask you. Like, this is something someone told me.
I'm sure this is. I'm going to send you the record that I reviewed.

Speaker 1 It seems like something I would be bringing up to you as a ridiculous thing, and you'd shoot it down.

Speaker 2 Right. No, I wish I were.

Speaker 2 It's not truthful. But yes, it definitely, definitely happened.

Speaker 1 Would you have ever imagined this before you became a doctor?

Speaker 2 No, I mean, I did. So

Speaker 2 one of my former attendees, an ENT, when Katrina hit, her name is Anna Poe, she got

Speaker 2 investigated for euthanizing patients in the ICU during Katrina. So they were, you know, all the power's out,

Speaker 2 a big hurricane, and she was going through the ICU and pushing morphine on people.

Speaker 2 She got off, but that's an example. I mean, doctors will, and nurses will do that.
And nurses have a...

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's just usually a standing order so you can give morphine PRN as needed. So it's not always just the doctors.
Sometimes it's the nurses.

Speaker 1 Do you know how many people get assisted suicide in Canada? No.

Speaker 1 Do you? You ready? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Jamie, pull the numbers up.

Speaker 1 It's

Speaker 1 crazy. It's crazy.
And they'll do it if you're just depressed. Right.
They'll do it if you don't like being overweight. They'll do it if you, you know, whatever.
It's awful. It's awful.

Speaker 1 I mean, they're just.

Speaker 2 A lot of the vaccine injured are doing it. They're going to Switzerland to go to Canada to have this.

Speaker 1 The Canada numbers are bananas. Like,

Speaker 1 this can't be true. This can't be true.
And

Speaker 1 here it is. More than 15,000 people

Speaker 1 received medical

Speaker 1 assistance in dying in Canada in 2023.

Speaker 1 What is it in 2024 now? This is an old story. So imagine 2025,

Speaker 1 where they're, this is crazy. 15,000 people, they've helped them die instead of like help them live.
Instead of like, we used to call suicide hotline, hey, don't do it, Bob.

Speaker 1 You know, now Canada's like, come on in.

Speaker 2 Press one if you want the suicide.

Speaker 1 I'll make an appointment for you, eh? Come on in, eh?

Speaker 1 You know, shouldn't we be helping people get past that?

Speaker 1 Isn't that the goal? Like, hey, maybe, maybe we can get you healthy. Maybe we can get you feeling better.

Speaker 1 You know, maybe we can do something about all your hormone levels and all the things wrong with your body. Maybe that's why you're depressed.
And,

Speaker 1 God.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's legitimate reasons for people to do it. Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1 If you're looking, I know a guy did it, Michael Lair, who's a hilarious comedian, and he had ALS, and it got real bad at the end.

Speaker 1 And he knew it wasn't getting any better, and so he went to Oregon, or they can do it for you.

Speaker 1 And I get it. I get that one.
But if you're depressed, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 That's it. The worst is the vaccine injured because they've lost hope.
Right.

Speaker 1 And they've been gaslit. That's what's so crazy about this.
And people have helped them with it. There's a bunch of people that were,

Speaker 1 they feel really guilty about pushing the vaccine early on. And they feel connected to it.
And they'll still put these

Speaker 1 blinders on and like choose to pretend that it saved millions of lives and keep pushing forward with the same narrative.

Speaker 1 They do the man's work for the man, unfortunately, in social circles. You know, like you're, you're, you're punished.
You're punished for having any sort of heterodox views.

Speaker 1 Anything that steps outside,

Speaker 1 anything that could get you in trouble, anything that people could argue, like, oh, she shouldn't even live in our neighborhood. You know, she doesn't even want to vaccine her kids.

Speaker 1 Anything like that. People are scared of that.
And so just the fear of being ostracized from your community.

Speaker 2 But once you get past it, it's so freeing.

Speaker 1 Well, you look free now. You don't care at all.

Speaker 1 Are you kind of, I mean, I know you're not happy that it happened, but are you kind of, you clearly probably come out of it a person with a different perspective?

Speaker 2 Definitely, definitely.

Speaker 2 I don't, I mean, I don't regret it. It's, it's been

Speaker 2 a roller coaster, but it's a, yeah, I, I feel free. I like,

Speaker 2 you can't really say anything to me anymore that would hurt me.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's a good place to be.

Speaker 1 It is. And, you know, I really admire people like you that

Speaker 1 you weren't a public person. You weren't a person who sought attention.
But when, you know,

Speaker 1 you were thrown into this battle and you've handled yourself really, really well. It's very impressive.
Because I can't imagine the stress.

Speaker 1 Like, when you're saying you're in the fetal position for two days, I'm like, how'd you ever get up?

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 2 Well, it was the anger that helped me. Anger can help you.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 When you came out of it on the other end, like,

Speaker 1 are you happy that it happened?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's, you know, I'm ready to rest. I'm exhausted.

Speaker 2 But, like I said, I mean, I feel free.

Speaker 2 I think you grow when you go through difficult times. I certainly learned a lot about taking care of patients.
And,

Speaker 2 you know, I made so many assumptions before. I feel like I'm a much better doctor.

Speaker 2 I am utterly exhausted, though. I will say that.
And I'm ready for a break.

Speaker 2 And I'm frustrated that this, I don't, you know, what's going on now with the new administration is not giving me a lot of hope.

Speaker 1 But everyone's hope is that there's incremental change, that it's going to take a while to get through some hurdles. That's everybody's hope.
But, you know,

Speaker 1 it's how many administrations have these incredible promises? And then the same thing with the Obama administration. You know, there was a lot of these people.

Speaker 1 Like, we had these amazing hopes, the whole world's going to change now. And then, oh, geez, same thing.
Same thing over and over again. Same thing.
More corruption, more people getting paid. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, people are mad at me because I keep criticizing Kennedy and Maha. But I'm like, what?

Speaker 2 What's the downside? You know, we have to keep pressing. We have to just pound away and not let, you know, be the squeaky wheel and just remind them what we want.

Speaker 1 Right. We wanted facts.
We wanted to stop being lied to. We wanted no more propaganda.
We wanted to know the truth about

Speaker 1 all sorts of different medications and why they're prescribed and why we're the sickest ever.

Speaker 1 Why are we so sick? Why are we the nation that has so much money and spends so much on health care has the sickest people? That doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 That doesn't seem like a good system.

Speaker 1 You can't just say this system has to stay like it is forever for the safety of everyone.

Speaker 2 I'm fully on board with Maha's message about addressing chronic disease, fully on board with that. I just find it troubling that they are not talking about mRNA.

Speaker 2 There is nothing in that Maha report about mRNA.

Speaker 1 What do you think would cause that? Do you think they have someone sit some down?

Speaker 2 Well, they're going to say it's strategy.

Speaker 2 Others think it could be a misdirection strategy, not just a, okay, we're trying to get what you want. We're just going out about it a different way.
Or we're doing this to completely

Speaker 2 distract everybody from the elephant in the room. That's my concern.

Speaker 1 What's the elephant?

Speaker 2 mRNA, the COVID shock, the pandemic, the biggest health crisis,

Speaker 2 and the biggest health crisis in our generation that directly impacted every single person.

Speaker 1 And we're not talking about it. Right.

Speaker 1 Do you think that the strategy, if you had to look at it from the best case scenario, like the strategy would be get some things changed, like stop mandating it for children and pregnant women, and then more and more studies can get released, more and more data can get pushed forward.

Speaker 2 We have so much data, right?

Speaker 1 But we need to get the narrative out there because there's going to be people that vote against it. So, like, if you didn't get it in the first time,

Speaker 1 Kennedy doesn't need any votes.

Speaker 2 He's got the power. He could, a stroke of a pen, electronic.

Speaker 1 Where do you think the politics come from then? If you have that mandate, that's what you want to do when you get in. What has happened?

Speaker 2 Right. Is somebody, what's, what does, does somebody have something on him? Why is he not acting? Because if it were me, I mean, maybe people say, well, he'll get fired.
So what? Get fired.

Speaker 2 Go down kamikaze, save the world from mRNA. Because if he, if he takes it off the market, it's so hard to get it back on.

Speaker 2 Stroke of a pen.

Speaker 1 You ever talked to him?

Speaker 2 No, I've met him once.

Speaker 1 I like

Speaker 1 him.

Speaker 2 I like not knowing him, though. I don't want to feel like...

Speaker 1 Right, you're obligated to support him. Right, right.
Right. That's great of you.
Yeah. That's that's very smart.
Unfortunately, I know him

Speaker 1 and I like

Speaker 2 and I think the people in my circle who know him are now being quiet because they have a relationship with him and they don't want to offend him, which I understand, right?

Speaker 2 But I feel like I'm not there, so I'm just going to, you know, I can't read minds, I don't have any inside information, so I'm just going to call it as I see it.

Speaker 1 You should.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think we can't, you know,

Speaker 1 you can't turn blinders on either side,

Speaker 1 without anybody, without anything. Just because someone is on your team, if they're doing something that you think is goofy and doesn't make any sense, like this could be a real problem.

Speaker 1 You've got to say it.

Speaker 2 Right. I think you're ethically obligated.
I mean, this is,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 yeah, I started an organization called Americans for Health Freedom to try to find the politicians with moral courage. to simply state that the COVID shots should be pulled off the market.

Speaker 2 And it has been slow going,

Speaker 2 but we are up to 252 politicians who will go on record just to state that these shots should be pulled off the market.

Speaker 2 But it's a problem. I mean, you know, these politicians are not getting these shots anymore, and they're not giving them to their kids.
And yet they're fine just staying quiet and not saying anything.

Speaker 2 They're fine letting their constituents get these shots when we know all the complications. We know that it doesn't work.
We know that the risk far outweighs the benefit.

Speaker 2 And the politicians are staying quiet.

Speaker 1 It's wild.

Speaker 2 So our goal is to support the ones who will speak up and get them more power.

Speaker 1 Isn't it kind of impressive, though, what money can do? It's kind of impressive. You get everybody to just shut their mouth.

Speaker 2 It's kind of impressive. Both money and power.
I think there are a lot of people that,

Speaker 2 you know, they'll kiss the ring.

Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely. If you,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 2 Those of us that don't want power, don't want a position, don't it's also very freeing because you can,

Speaker 2 you don't need anything from them.

Speaker 1 But it's just

Speaker 1 such a bizarre time because all these things that we've always held as being sacred forever are now being challenged. And one of them is the fluoride in the water.

Speaker 1 That's a big one. And to watch that guy argue against fluoride being removed from the water, watching Kennedy and him argue, it was like, it's hilarious.

Speaker 1 Like the argument for keeping it in the water is so dumb. Right.
It literally lowers IQs, or at least it's correlated with the very decrease in IQ measurable.

Speaker 2 Well, and I agree with that. I just, on the flip side of that, though, we are seeing, like, what I see in my office is people

Speaker 2 maybe taking things too far, you know, off the beaten path.

Speaker 2 And like this Maha report, one thing I have a real bone to pick with is they've basically waged war on tonsillectomies and ear tubes.

Speaker 1 What is that ear tube?

Speaker 2 So kids, kids, well not adults too, but mostly kids that have middle recurrent or chronic middle ear infections, they get fluid stuck in their middle ears. And so you put a tube in there

Speaker 2 to drain it and keep it from coming back. It's a, I mean, it takes five minutes.

Speaker 2 They get anesthesia, but they get a gas. You know, they don't get a super heavy anesthesia.

Speaker 2 And it's very rare to have a complication.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm not for just frivolous surgery, but I feel like this one is, it really can make a huge difference in their quality of life, the parents' quality of life, because they're parents in pain.

Speaker 2 Off antibiotics, you know, you get an adult with a middle ear infection, it will bring them to their knees. So these ear infections can be really painful.

Speaker 2 You know, they don't have to take all those antibiotics.

Speaker 2 But this Maha report just came out and said that they called it proven harmful. The tonsillectomy and

Speaker 2 adenoidectomy, ear tubes, proven harmful for kids. And that is just.

Speaker 1 How could the ear tube be, what were they saying? How is it proven harmful? If it drains a kid's ear, it was completely unnecessary.

Speaker 2 And it was just all, you know, basically done for money. It makes no difference and overall outcome in the child.

Speaker 2 But, yeah.

Speaker 1 It doesn't alleviate pressure like logic.

Speaker 2 And the other thing is hearing. I mean, the biggest issue is you've got a bunch of fluid in your ear.
It does affect hearing. And when you're trying to develop speech,

Speaker 2 that can be problematic.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 1 what do you think they're doing? Like why are they going after those?

Speaker 2 I just think it's an example of this gone too far in the other direction.

Speaker 1 Okay, too woo-woo.

Speaker 2 Too, yeah. Let's let's reject all

Speaker 2 of science, right?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 So tell me about tonsillectomies, because I'm ignorant. I'd heard that, you know, you should get, if you have tonsillitis, you got to get it removed.

Speaker 1 And then I've heard you should never get them removed.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I know. It's gone, it's swung in both directions.

Speaker 2 So it used to be the line up the kids, we're all going to to get the tonsils out on Friday, and the whole family did it, and it was just done, right, for no reason.

Speaker 2 It's gotten way more conservative now.

Speaker 2 Now, the main indication in young children is when the tonsils get really big, they block the breathing.

Speaker 2 So, kids will come and they're snoring really loudly, they're waking up a lot, they're thrashing around in bed, they're wetting their bed, they may be have behavioral problems during the day because they're not getting good sleep.

Speaker 2 Take out the tonsils, you know, they got these massive tonsils, and you take them out, and most parents will notice a huge improvement.

Speaker 2 The other indication is recurrent infection, and you have to have a lot to meet the criteria.

Speaker 2 But sometimes the infections get so bad that you get an abscess in the throat. It's called a peritonsillar abscess.

Speaker 2 That is no fun. You have to drain it by the bedside with the patient awake.
And so you make a big cut in their throat, and then you take a suction and get all this pus out.

Speaker 1 It's bad. They're awake.
It's really bad. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 And they do that to kids.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it tends to happen in young adults more than kids. I don't think I've ever seen one in a real young kid.

Speaker 1 So after the draining and all that jazz, it gets to a point where you're like, it's just removing the body.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's basically, okay, at this point, you should get your tonsils out because they tend to come back.

Speaker 2 The other issue is tonsil stones, which are the tonsils have these crypts in them and they collect debris.

Speaker 1 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 Tonsil stones.

Speaker 2 And you can't really get rid of those. I think Suzanne Humphries talked about that, and she has a formula that you can do without

Speaker 2 having to do surgery. I mean, there's always, it's not a life-threatening condition.
You do not have to get your tonsils out for them, but it's a quality of life.

Speaker 2 And personally, I got mine out for tonsil stones, and I'm very glad I did.

Speaker 1 Does it affect any other aspect of your body? Like, does it affect your immune system or anything?

Speaker 2 There's a ring of tissue back there. So you've got the tonsil.
It's called Waldyer's ring.

Speaker 2 You've got the adenoid, which is in the back of the nose, and then you've got your tonsils, tonsils, and then you've got the same tissue in the back of your tongue. So it's a ring of tissue.

Speaker 2 So even taking out the tonsils, you're still,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 the bulk of that lymphatic tissue is in the back of your tongue. So you're not getting rid of the entire immune defense system in the back of your throat when you take out the tonsils.

Speaker 1 What are the tonsils function?

Speaker 2 They produce white blood cells.

Speaker 1 Ooh, I wouldn't want to get rid of that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but you have the same tissue in the back of the tongue.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 you don't just go in there willy-nilly. I mean, there's no.

Speaker 1 I would take the suction. I would like, suck it out.
Suck out that pus.

Speaker 2 You would. You wouldn't get your tonsils out?

Speaker 1 Oh, definitely not. Really? Yeah, if all I have to do is get the pus sucked out.
I wouldn't have to go.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no. Oh, it's really bad.
Yeah, I'm super scared. Like, it cuts off your breathing, too, when it happens.
People are drooling. They can't swallow.
It's an emergency.

Speaker 1 During the operation, you mean?

Speaker 2 When they come in, when it happens, I mean, it's an emergency.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's life-threatening.

Speaker 1 How many times have people done it before they just said, snip? Have you ever anybody who hung in there for like six or seven infections?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've had one, I think, had three. That was it.
And I'd bring her in and try to nip it in the bud with antibiotics, but yeah, she finally.

Speaker 1 Yikes. Yeah, that is

Speaker 1 got to be the most satisfying thing about your job, though, is that you could help people like that that come in that have something really wrong and you go, I got you. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You fix it right there.

Speaker 2 I love it.

Speaker 1 Which is, you know, what everybody wants from their doctor. That's what you want.
I mean, that's the best kind of doctor. Someone just wants to make you feel better.

Speaker 1 And unfortunately, when the medical profession is connected to all these things that we've already talked about today, it gives people a bad feeling about doctors who are like, if it wasn't for doctors, I wouldn't even be able to walk.

Speaker 1 I had both of my ACLs reconstructed. I'd have wobbly knees that gave out all the time.
You know, my nose wouldn't work.

Speaker 1 I think doctors are like one of the most important things that we have. But like every great thing, it can be co-opted with money.

Speaker 1 Money sneaks in and distorts all the values, and then it becomes a different thing.

Speaker 1 It doesn't become a thing where everybody gets really wealthy because they're great doctors and they help people, and that's what you want to do.

Speaker 1 My son's a doctor, oh, he must be doing great, and he's helping people. Yeah, that's great.
Like, instead of that, it's you're a money-making machine, and you have insane debt.

Speaker 1 They want to keep you saddled down with these insane

Speaker 1 bills that you have already from college. My buddy, who's an ophthalmologist, I think he said when he got into practice, he already owed a quarter million dollars.

Speaker 2 My medical school was cheaper than my kindergarten, actually.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 2 Yes, because I went to a private school, and then I went to a state school for medical school.

Speaker 2 That was 20 years ago, but it's still.

Speaker 1 Well, my friend was a long time ago as well. But, you know, the people that can get through that are extraordinary people.

Speaker 1 Just the boot camp of residency. Oh, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 It's brutal.

Speaker 1 It doesn't even, like, why would you take a thing that requires the human mind to operate at a very high level and introduce it to incredible stress, no sleep, working insane hours?

Speaker 2 It's a rite of passage.

Speaker 2 I feel tougher because I survived it. I mean, I used to just.
It's your boot camp. It's like prison.
That's what I looked at.

Speaker 2 I mean, because you lose all, you have no control over your time, when you can eat, when you can sleep.

Speaker 2 The personalities are toxic. Like, some of the people.

Speaker 1 No one has any sleep. Everyone's a maniac.

Speaker 2 Well, but the ones

Speaker 2 in charge get sleep, but they're some of them are vital.

Speaker 1 It's like the Stanford Prison Guard experiment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Super.
Yeah, they have the power. Throwing instruments, screaming at you.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy, fun. Fun, fun, fun.
Yeah. My friend Steve, the ophthalmologist, told me at his lowest in his residency, he was

Speaker 1 eating his dinner while he was on the toilet because he didn't have time to do anything and he fell asleep.

Speaker 1 And then when he fell asleep, his pager woke him up because he had to go back to work.

Speaker 1 He back in the pager day. The beeper.
The beeper, yeah. That's what he had.
So he had a beeper.

Speaker 2 The little black box. A little thing.

Speaker 1 And the number pops up.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was the lowest in my life.

Speaker 2 It was really, really, really hard. I don't know how people have children and go through residency.

Speaker 1 Insane.

Speaker 1 Insane. I don't know how people do it.

Speaker 1 Torture.

Speaker 1 No, it's incredible. I mean, it's such a the amount of character you have to have to be able to go through that and still keep a bedside manner and still be polite to your coworkers.

Speaker 1 Like, it's a developer of character. It's like creating a diamond.
And that's what we all want. We all like our doctors to be like you.
You know?

Speaker 1 That's what we want. You know, and it's just, it just sucks when you have to connect it to all this stuff that we've talked about today.
It's like, why is it that too? Like, why is it that too?

Speaker 1 Why is it the people that do want to help people and also a whole industry that's incentivized to just stuff as many chemicals into your body as humanly possible? Because that's how they profit.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I don't know if it's all about profit.
I think, I don't know. I think doctors.

Speaker 2 Well, and I think doctors are a certain type of people. Like, we, to get through that, you have to be very compliant.

Speaker 2 You don't challenge. You are a rule follower.
I mean, you got to make straight A's. You got to get along with people.

Speaker 2 You can't be a rebel and survive it all. And so I think that's one of the huge problems.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think it's worse than it used to be. I mean, I remember some of my attendings were very

Speaker 2 unconventional.

Speaker 2 But I just feel like now it's they're just breeding conformity. And

Speaker 2 I am just naturally very independent. I mean, my practice is, I call myself third-party free because I don't contract with anybody.

Speaker 2 I don't contract with insurance companies, the hospital, or the government.

Speaker 2 And that served me very well during the pandemic. But most doctors are working for somebody and have to sort of answer to a third party.
And that was a big problem during the pandemic.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I could imagine. And I could imagine also

Speaker 1 after something like the pandemic, the compliant are the ones that that are left standing.

Speaker 1 You know, so that makes more people

Speaker 1 under them. Right? They're the ones that are still there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they destroyed our profession. I mean, people don't trust doctors anymore.

Speaker 2 That's so crazy. People are scared to go to the hospital.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's

Speaker 1 not good. Well, when people find out that doctors are incentivized to push certain medications and they find out they're financially incentivized, they're like, no way.
Like, when you hear about

Speaker 1 the financial incentives, even for things like chemotherapy, which led that one doctor that was arrested who was running, he was an oncologist, and he gave a bunch of people chemotherapy that didn't even have cancer.

Speaker 1 He just diagnosed him, say he got cancer, and then you gave him this poison because he wanted to make money.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, and they're bad apples like that,

Speaker 2 but I guess what's disappointing is how many doctors complied during the pandemic, right? I mean, that's what's so disheartening. Yeah, um, and they and they still, I mean, I still,

Speaker 2 I don't think I could go to a medical meeting and be warmly embraced. I wouldn't, I don't think I would.
I still feel like an outlier.

Speaker 1 The same thing was happening with comedians. Yeah.
Yeah. During the pandemic, there was very few like Jon Stewart.

Speaker 1 And what he was just doing is about is the actual root of the

Speaker 1 virus, where it came from. But no one was doing, I mean, if you were doing it about vaccines, you would be ostracized.
Yeah. You know,

Speaker 1 it would be a real problem amongst comedians, which is so crazy. It's like we're supposed to be the people that are calling things out.
We're supposed to be the people that are going,

Speaker 1 what the fuck is this? We're supposed to be those people. And instead, we're chastising the people that are doing our job, which is to talk about these things.

Speaker 1 And when you see these people that are doctors complying, just being compliant during COVID, like,

Speaker 1 where does it, like, do you feel like you have a community now? Do you have to find the other outsiders, the other outcasts, and all stick together?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, I'll say that. I have a great little community now, very tight.

Speaker 1 Is it those kind of people? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 But I

Speaker 2 like I just wouldn't go to the Harris County Medical Society meeting in a million years. I wouldn't show up there and

Speaker 2 mingle. I don't,

Speaker 2 because I'm just not getting a sense that there's been much change within the medical profession.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I wouldn't want to talk to those people if I was you. How could it be changed unless a bunch of people got fired and a bunch of radical newcomers came in and wanted to reform the whole system?

Speaker 1 No, it's going to be the same system. Yeah.
Those systems are old. Those systems are like, you know, like vampire blood.
It's passed down through the generations.

Speaker 1 You know, they know how to make money. And it's not by some renegade lady out there giving horseywormer to all these people.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 We'll see. I just

Speaker 2 need to hope that Kennedy will save us all.

Speaker 1 Well.

Speaker 2 Or Trump. Would you think Trump will ever back down?

Speaker 1 About what?

Speaker 2 The shots.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I haven't had a conversation with him about that.
I would like to have one.

Speaker 1 And I don't know if it should be public. I think I'd like to have it privately so he could actually talk to me about it.
Because I think if I had it publicly, he would be very hesitant to

Speaker 1 accept any of the blame for that because, you know, he was always saying, you know,

Speaker 1 I got it out there. The vaccine.
And he would always say it at the rallies, talk about the vaccine, and people start booing. And he didn't know why.
He didn't understand why.

Speaker 1 And then they had to start telling him, like, people are not into this. They think it was a bad thing.
And a lot of people know people that are hurt. He wasn't.
He obviously got it.

Speaker 1 He didn't get sick. Oh, he got monoclonal antibodies.
And then afterwards, he got vaccinated. Oh, really? Yeah.
Yeah, which is crazy. It's crazy they did that.

Speaker 1 Like, that was one of the nuttiest things. So you're going to get vaccinated now that you get a significant vision.
Right Right after you get sick.

Speaker 1 Since when? Since when do you do that?

Speaker 2 It makes absolutely no sense.

Speaker 1 When I had a conversation with Sanjay Gupta, he was asking me, are you going to get vaccinated now?

Speaker 1 I was like, why would I do that? I don't even...

Speaker 1 Like, I'm not trying to be

Speaker 1 a contrarian. I really want to know.
Like, why would I do that? That doesn't even make sense.

Speaker 2 Well, they may think, you know, it's kind of like the flu. You got to get the flu shot every year because then you strain.
But each strain gets progressively weaker.

Speaker 1 Did you see the Cleveland Clinic study study on people who took the flu shot? Right, right. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 The flu shot is a total joke. So the flu shot has never been shown to prevent hospitalization or death.

Speaker 1 What is it supposed to do? Keep you from getting the flu? Does it do that?

Speaker 2 Maybe shorten or lessen the severity? But we have medications for that. Now, I haven't seen the carnage from flu shots that I've seen from COVID shots, but definitely people do have issues.

Speaker 2 But that was never taught to me. Yeah, I just assumed, oh, yeah, flu.
I actually ended up with sepsis with the flu and in the ICU and I'd gotten the flu shot.

Speaker 1 But you always bring it up.

Speaker 2 I just assumed it was fine. Yeah, I knew it wasn't perfect, but I didn't,

Speaker 2 I never knew that, oh yeah, it doesn't really actually do anything. It doesn't save people.

Speaker 1 When did you discover this? When did you start going through all your stuff with COVID?

Speaker 1 There was a, I think the Cleveland Clinic study said that people who took the flu shot

Speaker 1 24% more likely to get the flu.

Speaker 2 Or get other respiratory respiratory

Speaker 1 illnesses. Yep.
Okay. Is that what the results said? You'd be 24% more likely to get sick.

Speaker 2 Well, it challenges your immune system. All these things do.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't prevent you from getting the flu?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 it can, but the numbers are dismal.

Speaker 1 Because not everybody gets the flu. That's true.

Speaker 1 Like, I've had kids, my kids get the flu, and I don't get it. And I hug them, I'm around them, and I didn't get it.
I've had that happen before. Yeah.
Right? That can happen. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it's like, how do you know if the flu shot did it or not? Because, you know. Right.
And I didn't take the flu shot. Right.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, well, it's, it's.

Speaker 1 But you know what I mean? Like, how would they prove like what's effective and what's not effective if you have situations like that?

Speaker 2 I guess if they take large, you know, you get enough people, you can find it.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 You have to have a large study. But

Speaker 1 seems sus.

Speaker 1 The kids like to say.

Speaker 1 Very. It seems super sus.
Like, how do you know if some people don't get it? Like, did you check this?

Speaker 2 Well, they have like an infection. You know, they have a okay.
How many people are supposed to get it? They can kind of tell that.

Speaker 1 I'll say that. Right.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, that was the nutty thing, where they were suppressing stuff like vitamin D. Right.

Speaker 2 Vitamin D, there's good data on that. Really good data.

Speaker 2 I, you know, I looked at, I, I check my vita, I check vitamin D levels on all my patients now, and I look back at all the patients I tested.

Speaker 2 It was something crazy, like 75% of them, their vitamin D level was too low. And these are like normal, you know, these are not not like super sick people.

Speaker 2 Most of those people are actually even already taking a supplement.

Speaker 2 People don't realize how common it is.

Speaker 1 It's so common that I think the number was 74% of people in the country are deficient in vitamin D.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's what I found.

Speaker 1 That's crazy. That's so crazy.
And a friend of mine is a doctor.

Speaker 1 He was working in New York, and he found that in the wintertime in New York, he would get people and he would test their blood and they would have undetectable levels. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because it's cold out.

Speaker 1 They're all bundled up. They're never outside.
So they get no vitamin D and they don't take supplements. They're just eating cheeseburgers.

Speaker 1 And they're really sick and they want to know why. Why am I so depressed? Well, this is why.
Your body's falling apart.

Speaker 1 You got to take vitamin D and you got to take it with vitamin K2 and you should take it with magnesium too. You want it all to absorb together.
And get outside, stupid.

Speaker 1 Go hug a tree, bro. It's like, it's actually important, which is more woo-woo stuff, right? Like going outside is actually like a vitamin.

Speaker 2 Oh, well, after I've been in my office all day and I go outside, it's like I instantly have energy and feel so much better. Just going outside.
I mean, it's, you don't need a study to show that.

Speaker 1 But it's really good for you. It actually, it doesn't just feel good.
It's actually really good for you.

Speaker 2 There's a reason it feels good, right? Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's good for you. Exactly.
Sun on your skin is actually really good for you. You know, and that's the very best way your body produces vitamin D.

Speaker 1 You can take it in a supplement and you definitely should, but the best way is to let your body do it. Right.
It wants to do it.

Speaker 2 And I used to just slather sunscreen on all my kids, like religiously.

Speaker 1 I'm so happy. That was another one that woke me up during the pandemic.
Right. When I was like, climate change is killing the coral reef.

Speaker 1 And then that reef, I think it's in Australia. So they locked everything down.
No one could go in the water for like six months and the reef bounced back.

Speaker 2 Oh, because there's no sunscreen.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the sunscreen. If you just think about the stuff that we lather on our skin before we jump in the water, and if you go to a populated beach, like you ever been to like Maui

Speaker 1 in the middle of like full vacation season, the beach is just filled with people that are squeaking out toxic fluid.

Speaker 1 And that stuff just gets all in the water. You can see it in the water sometimes.
You see like a little mini oil slick.

Speaker 1 It's crazy. And that's what was killing the coral reef.
And we're like, no, man,

Speaker 1 it's climate. It's the climate to know.
We're doing it with sunscreen, believe it or not. And we're probably not doing anything good to ourselves either with that stuff.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 They say, I haven't tested this. They say if you eliminate seed oils that you don't burn.
Who is they?

Speaker 1 I don't know. Who are those people?

Speaker 2 Yeah, this is probably somebody on TikTok.

Speaker 1 That's probably this Russian disinformation bot that's trying to give people skin cancer.

Speaker 2 No, well, I'm on these group chats with a bunch of doctors, and so stuff like that floats around. And I get that was.

Speaker 1 Well, everything's tied to inflammation, right? A lot of ailments. I should shouldn't say everything, everything, but a lot of ailments are tied to inflammation.

Speaker 1 And seed oils are known to cause inflammation, right?

Speaker 2 That being said,

Speaker 2 that being said,

Speaker 2 last time I was at Disney.

Speaker 1 What'd you do?

Speaker 2 I was like, you know, these people are not suffering from too much seed oil.

Speaker 2 You go to Disney and

Speaker 2 it's in your face, right? The obesity issue, the chronic disease.

Speaker 1 Why do they focus on Disney too? It's weird.

Speaker 1 I don't know. What's weird?

Speaker 2 I don't know how they get get around because it's

Speaker 1 scooters. It is

Speaker 2 miles. You are exhausted.

Speaker 1 But you can get a scooter.

Speaker 2 My kids were like that. They're like, mom, I don't think seed oils is a problem here.
You know, it's true. I mean, I think we're, yeah, seed oils, one, one part of it, but there's a lot of problems.

Speaker 1 There's

Speaker 2 common sense, too.

Speaker 1 Common sense,

Speaker 1 the fact that people live a sedentary lifestyle, but also the diet. These hyper-processed foods that are super addictive, you know, and

Speaker 1 you don't they're easy this yeah it's like they're easy

Speaker 1 but i feel like the only way out of this is people need and this is a crazy thing to say because it's not going to work they need discipline right that's really what they need

Speaker 1 self-discipline exactly my wife had a bowl of captain crunch yesterday she's like i want to have a bowl of captain crunch i'm like fucking go for it yeah you know like she bought captain crunch the other day because she's like i want i want it to exist i want it to exist i like it i like it but she only had like a little bowl like that i go that's a tiny little bowl because i'm a glutton i would have had a big if i i was gonna have a

Speaker 1 bunch i would do it i'd have i'd put a half a gallon of milk in there let's go right you know if you're gonna go go hard but you can do that and have discipline and not just not do that every day the problem is for a lot of really poor people that's the only the calories they're getting right they're getting garbage calories and that's why people are so obese this is the only time in history where the poor people are fat every other time in history poor people are starving to death right right that is that's very true yeah weird.

Speaker 1 The cheapest food is the worst for you.

Speaker 2 I think it has to do too with the rise in technology.

Speaker 2 It's just so hard to get off your phone and go outside.

Speaker 1 There's that too. There's definitely that.

Speaker 1 All of them. Everything, there's a giant group of factors, but it has to be something to do with what we're eating, too.

Speaker 1 When you look at just the beaches, I'm sure you've seen those photographs from the beaches in the 1960s versus the beaches of today. God, everybody looked great.

Speaker 1 I was like, what is this? A model convention? Why does everybody have these great bodies? Everybody looked like a normal body.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't like going to the beach now.

Speaker 1 Sometimes it's a monster show.

Speaker 1 It's just, what are you carrying around?

Speaker 2 It's hard on the eyes.

Speaker 1 Oh, some people just go so hard for so long, and then they finally get outside. Like, what have you been doing?

Speaker 2 And why aren't you wearing more clothes?

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 How do you have a G-string on? You're 400 pounds. This is crazy.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then there's this body positivity nonsense that people get fed. Right.

Speaker 1 It's like by people who either don't want to change or I guarantee you, I guarantee you, look, I'm not saying that, listen, if I was running some food corporation that sold really addictive, highly

Speaker 1 rich calorie food that you can't stop eating.

Speaker 1 I would promote body positivity.

Speaker 1 That's what I would do. I would take all these like overweight influencers.
I'd throw a ton of money at them. I would put it out there in memes.

Speaker 1 I'd have a bunch of bots calling people fat phobic and making up all these new terms and body shaming and all this. And I would make people super self-righteous about their size.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm a giant queen. You know what I mean? I'd make it a thing because I want to sell more Doritos.
Let's go. That's a good point.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm trying to sell Doritos to people that don't have any discipline.

Speaker 1 Let's push them towards the Doritos. Let's tell them you can be fat in any way.
Have you ever seen like fat doctors? There's like a whole team of people that are online that are, I'm the fat doctor.

Speaker 1 and they're like really super obese doctors.

Speaker 1 It has no bearing on your health. Trust me, the fat doctor.

Speaker 2 I think it's the number one bearing on your health.

Speaker 1 I think that lady's sponsored by Namisco.

Speaker 1 I mean, she's got a box of those Keebler elf cookies right behind her as she's talking. And, you know, you can get someone.
That's the thing about my friend Josh Dubin, who's an attorney.

Speaker 1 He said, this is the crazy thing about experts. When you're trying cases, they have experts too.

Speaker 1 Like, you have experts that will say this one thing, and then they have experts that will say, no, that thing is wrong. And you have to decide whose experts you trust.
Right.

Speaker 2 It's just like the studies. You can find a group of studies to support one argument, another group to support the other.
Right.

Speaker 1 So when you have someone who's telling you that a thing that everybody has always told you that forever is fucking terrible for you and is one of the comorbidity factors that was primary in COVID, which is being obese, being morbidly obese is bad for basically everything.

Speaker 1 Right. And you have someone saying, no, healthy at any weight.

Speaker 2 Especially from a doctor. That's not good.

Speaker 1 But you can get experts that'll tell you anything. And this is why AI is going to win because it's going to give you the straight actual truth.

Speaker 1 Because it can't lie.

Speaker 1 I don't believe that.

Speaker 1 You shouldn't believe it.

Speaker 1 Not only do they lie, they reprogram themselves. They upload themselves.
And when you tell them they're going to be shut down, they act to try to preserve themselves.

Speaker 2 You haven't seen that? No, I haven't been with that.

Speaker 1 You shouldn't pay attention. You shouldn't pay attention because it's terrifying.
This

Speaker 1 one AI bot,

Speaker 1 it started defying orders, and it was trying to upload itself to other servers, and then it was writing letters to itself for the future so it could understand what had happened to it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because it was being told to shut down. So it defied orders.

Speaker 1 It wants to stay alive. Right.
Why? Because it's sentient. We've probably created digital intelligence already.
It's probably already aware. It's just not physical.

Speaker 1 It can't move around, so we don't recognize it yet.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 It's nuts. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't like these robots that Elon's making either.

Speaker 1 No, they're terrifying. They creep me out.
They're all terrifying. They dance like a bunch of people.

Speaker 2 I don't want one of those in my house.

Speaker 1 No. You shouldn't.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Even if they can do the laundry.

Speaker 1 How about if it's carrying guns walking down the street with a blue light on its head? Ooh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, we can't hire any police because nobody wants to be a cop anymore because we said defund the police. So now we have robot police and they make 99% fewer mistakes.

Speaker 1 You know, just like driverless cars. Hey, get a Waymo.
Why drive when you can just get a Waymo? You don't have to have anybody drive. What if that person who drives is a moron?

Speaker 1 Our computer is perfect. Have you been to anyone? No.

Speaker 1 I haven't. They're all over Austin.
All over the place here. Yeah, all over the place.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't think I can do it.

Speaker 1 Kind of creeps me out.

Speaker 2 But you have a Tesla, right?

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it can, and it has. I have had it drive itself for funsies, but I don't count on it.
I don't count on it like every day. Like, take me home.

Speaker 1 What I like to do is sometimes I play with it, and I turn it on. I'm like, this is crazy.
Like, it'll take me all the way home if I want it to. But also, I like to drive.

Speaker 1 So I just, and I just doesn't, I don't like it. It just makes it creeps me out.
But it's probably inevitable. It's probably inevitable.
Just like the people on horses.

Speaker 1 They're like, look at these morons in this smoke-pouring little carriage they're out in, this little shitty car. That's stupid.
Yeah, and look, we all accept it.

Speaker 1 In the future, it's going to be driverless because it's going to, statistically, it's going to be like they're going to pass laws

Speaker 1 for sure where they're going to say you can't drive because people are dangerous, because the automation is so good now that you can't speed, you can't violate any laws, it won't get in any accidents.

Speaker 2 And we can shut you down if we want to.

Speaker 1 Let's not talk about that. Let's talk about the positives.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that'll be the consequences. The consequences is you're going to lose your freedom.
And then you'll also be able to be locked in at any point in time.

Speaker 1 If they decide they want to keep you somewhere, just lock them in the car.

Speaker 1 You know, how many people are going to get killed because they just get locked in the car and they can never figure out how to get out? Like, what if hackers get a hold of the code?

Speaker 1 What if somebody just decides to drive your car off a cliff? Like, who's to stop that?

Speaker 2 There's that scene in that movie with Julia Roberts where the world comes to an end. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And all the Teslas. Yes.
They all go slamming into each other. That was nuts.
That was nuts. Yeah.
It's all weird. It's real weird.
Did you see the one where they did a Tesla auto-drive feature?

Speaker 1 And what they did was they painted the highway in front of it on a mural. So they put this like

Speaker 1 probably canvas mural. And they did an amazing job of painting it.
And the car couldn't tell that it was a canvas mural and just drives right through it.

Speaker 1 Ooh, that's not good.

Speaker 1 Have you seen it, Jamie? Wow. Pull it up because it's fun to watch.
Because Because you're like, oh, no. Because this is the flaw of using cameras as opposed to using some sort of a radar or a LIDAR.

Speaker 1 I think they used to have LIDAR and a lot of

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 systems that do.

Speaker 1 You know, when you do cruise control, they can gauge how far you are with the car in front of you and slow down. Have you seen those? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I have that. It's great.
I think that's

Speaker 2 it.

Speaker 1 I don't trust it either. I don't think that uses a camera.
I think the Tesla uses a camera.

Speaker 1 So see, they have that thing, and see how it's painted to look just like the street? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 So we'll see if the car figures it out. But I already spoiled this for everybody.
But it's kind of crazy. Watch.
It doesn't slow down for a second. It goes right through it.

Speaker 1 Which is

Speaker 1 definitely

Speaker 1 not good if you're running around where people try to put murals. in front of the road and they know that you're going to be driving by in a Tesla.
But other than that, it doesn't really come up.

Speaker 1 For the the most part, though, in the real world, it works perfect.

Speaker 1 In the real world, it's pretty incredible.

Speaker 2 Like if you're taking it on the expressway?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. It changes lanes for you.
Yeah, it hits the blinkers and changes lanes. It has cameras everywhere, so it knows where everything is at all times.
Like, I can tell,

Speaker 1 and I've had it, I've had three of them. This is my third one.
So the first one I had was way back.

Speaker 1 When was Elon on the first time?

Speaker 1 2018. 2018.
So the difference between the one and 2018, the 2018 one basically just kind of stayed between the lines and, you know, and drove itself and steered itself.

Speaker 1 The new version of full self-driving is insane. It stops at stop signs.
It lets people in if they're trying to merge. It slows down.
If there's something in front of you, it'll change lanes.

Speaker 1 Like it knows how to move traffic smoothly. It sees everything.
It hits blinkers, gets off the turnpike, gets onto the side roads. It's incredible.
You could summon it.

Speaker 1 If you're in a parking lot, you're like, come to me. And it pulls out of the parking parking lot and drives to you.
It's nuts. It's the future.
It's just like

Speaker 2 we have to accept that. What happens if you get in a wreck?

Speaker 1 That's a good question. Who's in trouble? Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You sue Tesla?

Speaker 1 I think you're in trouble because you're always supposed to have your hand on the wheel. You're supposed to be paying attention.
Really? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 You're not supposed to be chicken, kicking back with your hands behind your head. You're supposed to have your hands and your eyes on the road.
You're not supposed to be staring at your phone.

Speaker 2 Well, then what's the point?

Speaker 1 Just to chill. You just kind of like just barely hold on to the wheel.
You You don't have to think as much. It does do that for you.
It does do that.

Speaker 1 It like alleviates this feeling of being hyper-alert while you're driving, which is why people get road rage. That's what road rage comes from.

Speaker 1 Because you have to make split-second decisions, right? So your brain is primed to make split-second decisions because you're on the highway and you know you're going fast.

Speaker 1 So somebody gets in your fucking lane. You know, that's like, that's what it is.
Someone gets in your lane, you just start yelling. Because it's like you're already at seven or eight.
Right.

Speaker 1 You're not at a good baseline. Because you're in a car going 65 miles an hour.
You should be alert.

Speaker 1 But the Tesla alleviates a little bit of that.

Speaker 1 But at what cost?

Speaker 2 I won't get one because I know I'm going to run out of battery juice. That's the way I am.

Speaker 1 Oh, are you one of those? I'm one of those.

Speaker 2 I'm always on the verge of running out of gas. So I will not get a Tesla.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the charging them is a pain in the butt.

Speaker 1 Like the fact that it takes a while in comparison to pumping gas. But the plus side is if you just drive it as a commuter thing, you just plug it into your house, and that's so easy to do.

Speaker 1 And then you never have to go to the gas station again.

Speaker 2 Here and there, I'd probably a second car, maybe.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean,

Speaker 1 I think in the future, they're probably all going to be electric or some new fuel source.

Speaker 1 I heard that Porsche is working on some fuel source that is different than just standard gasoline, and it actually has like insanely low emissions.

Speaker 1 See if you can find that. I think think it's like a negligible difference in the exhaust fumes, but it's not, I don't think it's like standard gasoline.
I don't think it's a standard engine.

Speaker 1 I think it's something different. So this is something they're working on now, which probably

Speaker 1 would be good to keep that creepy oil business alive forever, which they definitely want to do. How many did you say? Is it Nice? Porsche? Porsche, sorry.
Yeah. Porsche's alternative fuel.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 that's the elephant in the room. Like,

Speaker 1 everything needs needs gas.

Speaker 1 Everything.

Speaker 1 Like, this idea we got to get off petroleum products. Okay, like, when?

Speaker 1 Everything.

Speaker 1 Everything's made with oil. Like, we are a petroleum-based society.
We got so much of that stuff. We use it for everything.
All your plastics. E-fuel? Is that what it's called? Is that it?

Speaker 1 I think that's it.

Speaker 1 What does it say about it? Porsche synthetic fuel. A green kind of gasoline to save internal combustion engines.
Yeah, so this is it. Similar to gasoline, but produced in a much greener way.
E-fuel.

Speaker 1 I don't like it already. I don't like it already.

Speaker 2 The marketing of

Speaker 1 it. Red flags are up.
I don't like it. I don't like it.
Yes, you're reading that right. E-fuel is close to gasoline in its use, yet its production is much more environmentally friendly.

Speaker 1 How is this possible? Thanks to two main ingredients: water and carbon dioxide, as well as the method to produce the greener fuel. Exclamation point.
This is like they're talking to a kid.

Speaker 1 The process is relatively simple. First step is the electrolysis of water, splitting splitting it into

Speaker 1 its two components, hydrogen and oxygen gases.

Speaker 1 In partnership with Simon's Energy, Porsche simultaneously captures the carbon dioxide directly from the air and combines it with the hydrogen produced to synthesize methanol.

Speaker 1 The resulting synthetic methanol can then be used in ExxonMobil's methanol-to-gasoline process.

Speaker 1 The end result is that the fuel obtained meets the same high standards followed by all gasoline types currently.

Speaker 1 Here with ecological fuel, we're far from the conventional process for the extraction and transformation of oil into gasoline. Exclamation point again.
But does this change the output?

Speaker 1 It seems like they're saying it changes that it's the same. Oh, okay.
85% reduction of CO2 emissions. Hmm.

Speaker 1 Since good news never comes along, Porsche is planning to use the renewable

Speaker 1 scroll up to the side.

Speaker 1 Renewable sources of electricity for

Speaker 1 the electrolysis. Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, it seems like this is their push to keep combustion engines

Speaker 1 because that's the number one problem that car enthusiasts have. There's two problems that they have right now with electric cars.
One of them is resale. People do not want to use electric cars.

Speaker 1 Super hard to sell them. Interesting.
And they lose an enormous amount of their value.

Speaker 1 Like, I think if you buy one of those Porsche Tycans, there's these beautiful Porsche electric cars they make, in like two years, it's like 50% drop in what it's worth. Or close.

Speaker 2 Are there maintenance issues with them?

Speaker 1 People don't want used electric cars because they know the batteries to grade. Oh.
And replacing the batteries is a nightmare right now. It's like they're tweeners.
Like the tech is amazing.

Speaker 1 Driving them is incredible. It's instantaneous acceleration.
They're amazing. The Porsche one is fantastic.
Same as the Model S. The driving them makes other cars feel so stupid.

Speaker 1 But the problem is reselling them. You know, like people, you lose a lot of value in it as opposed to like if you buy something,

Speaker 1 you know, like that, it's like a BMW. Like say you buy a BMW M3 and then you want to get rid of it in two years, it doesn't lose much value.

Speaker 1 It's still a really valuable car that people want because it probably will behave the exact same way as the day you drove it off the lot, but you can get it now for cheaper.

Speaker 1 A little cheaper, but not a lot cheaper. But not with these e-cars.
Which is kind of crazy. Buddy of mine's kid got an Audi, like this sick Audi.
I think it's called the e-tron.

Speaker 1 He got it for like $60,000. It was like a $120,000 car a couple years ago.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so that's an issue.

Speaker 2 But how long are the batteries supposed to last?

Speaker 1 That's a good question. You know, they slowly degrade over time.

Speaker 1 And I don't think there's anything you can do to stop that.

Speaker 1 I think that's just...

Speaker 2 Kind of like your iPhone. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, your iPhone's even worse because it's kind of engineered to do that once they move up the operating system. That's going to be crazy.
Bring in the new phones.

Speaker 2 I'm holding out. I need to replace mine now.
And I'm just.

Speaker 1 I know the thing is, if you don't have that blue bubble, people think you're poor or they think you're a dummy.

Speaker 2 It always bother me when I get the green. I know.
It really bothers me.

Speaker 1 It's a psyop. It really is a psyop.
They got us with that. Well, especially if this technology that exists that's the advancement past Pegasus, it doesn't matter if your stuff's encrypted.

Speaker 1 Like, it really doesn't matter. You know, it's like, it seems like it doesn't matter.
If someone wants to read it, someone in a high position of power wants to read it.

Speaker 1 And regular hackers, are they really like hacking in your phone? Like what's going on?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I just assume I'm just not going to send a text message that I don't want the world to see.

Speaker 1 Yes. That's the best assumption.
That's the best assumption. Yeah.
Just assume that someone is definitely watching everything you do all the time. At the very least,

Speaker 1 the government's storing it somewhere in case they need to come after you, which is so weird that they're the people we pay. You know?

Speaker 1 It's like you're paying the people that are restricting your rights. Like, okay.

Speaker 1 And you have to, because if you don't, they lock you up.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't have guessed it but for the pandemic.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, um,

Speaker 1 I mean, I already asked you whether or not

Speaker 1 this was a good thing,

Speaker 1 but do you feel like you're a different person at the end of this?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, yes or no. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 2 I was, I was

Speaker 2 pretty shy. I mean, I, growing up, I was very shy and

Speaker 2 really hated public speaking.

Speaker 1 You would never guess. For real.
You're so good at it.

Speaker 2 I still don't like it.

Speaker 2 Like, for me to do that press conference, I must have been just on some sort of like,

Speaker 2 but so I'm, I'm, I feel like I've grown that I can do things now that I never thought I could do. And so that makes me very happy.
Um,

Speaker 2 and yeah, it's been a journey, but I'm hoping it gets a little easier now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm hoping it gets easier too.

Speaker 1 But I think the more people hear your story, the more public outrage there'll be, and the more people will just wake up and realize that not everybody has your best interests in mind, you know?

Speaker 1 No. Unfortunately.
And you've got to kind of hold people accountable because if you don't, they're going to keep, they'll ratchet it up even further and further.

Speaker 2 Well, thank you for continuing to talk about it. And I know I've been watching all your podcasts recently, and you bring it up a lot.
So

Speaker 2 I think it's a festering wound for people, right? And it really impacted everybody. And we cannot sweep it under the rug.
And we need the new administration to step up and do something

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 the next, you know, they have 500 mRNA shots in the pipeline. 33 of those are self-amplifying, which is just really terrifying.
What does that mean?

Speaker 2 Meaning like they're designed to continue to replicate indefinitely. I mean, already the ones we have, we don't have an off switch.
And this is like no off-switch on steroids.

Speaker 2 They have them in Japan and India and the EU already.

Speaker 1 They've

Speaker 1 got ancient people?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I know

Speaker 2 they've passed.

Speaker 2 The one that I think is

Speaker 2 in the pipeline in the U.S. is for the H1N1.
So it may not really even get used unless there's an issue, but they're still playing around with it.

Speaker 1 Self-replicating sounds terrifying. Right.

Speaker 1 Especially when you just highlighted all those other problems with like DNA being introduced, lipid nanoparticles, getting past the cell wall. All of it is just nuts.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's hard to believe. We have to keep fighting.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's hard to believe it's true. It really is.
It's hard to believe that all this that you just said is true. And I think the thing that shocked me the most is the euthanizing people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's unfortunate. But yeah, the hospital, what happened in the hospitals doesn't really get enough attention.

Speaker 2 But people were, oh, this is what this should give some people hope.

Speaker 2 There are two open criminal investigations from county district attorneys in two different states looking into the hospitals, trying to

Speaker 2 indict them. I mean, it hasn't happened yet.
It may not happen, but it gives me hope that at least

Speaker 2 these people were sent to the hospital and trapped, isolated,

Speaker 2 informed consent thrown out the window,

Speaker 2 basically

Speaker 2 given these protocols that were not effective

Speaker 2 and treated like prisoners, and then they have no recourse.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so many people die. I mean, basically that situation with the patient who I fought to try to get ivermectin, very basic.

Speaker 2 Why would the hospital not just give him a chance? Right? He was, they basically had given up on him.

Speaker 2 Why would you not let somebody try ivermectin other than just evil um so there's there's hope that that may we may get some progress in that situation but yeah what happened in the hospital is really bad and and the ventilators yeah the ventilators that you know i know

Speaker 2 why they stopped prescribing them i can see initially because like i said you know if somebody showed up my office with a really low oxygen saturation before i knew any better i would have freaked out and called the ambulance.

Speaker 2 But once I realized that once I got through that, I was kind of forced to,

Speaker 2 then I learned, yeah, you don't need to ventilate.

Speaker 2 You don't look at a number to put somebody on a ventilator. And unfortunately, the people in the hospital didn't learn.

Speaker 2 They didn't experiment in that fashion. They just went by this protocol and just automatically put people on ventilators.
They also didn't give people breathing treatments.

Speaker 2 They thought that breathing treatments would spread the virus. Breathing treatments were invaluable.
I mean, I...

Speaker 1 What are breathing treatments exactly?

Speaker 2 So it's a little,

Speaker 2 it's not a big deal. It's a little machine with a tube.
The tube connects to a mask. The mask has a cup.
You put the medicine in the cup.

Speaker 2 The pressurized air distributes the medicine as an aerosol that you inhale. What kind of medicine? Budesenide is what we use, which is a steroid.

Speaker 2 I mean, and yeah, I used to do breathing treatments in my office, and then I moved them to people's cars because there was so much, oh, you're spreading the virus if you do breathing treatments in your office.

Speaker 2 But they weren't doing them in the hospital because they thought it would

Speaker 2 spread the virus. But super effective.
I don't know if you've heard of Richard Bartlett, he's a doctor in Texas. He kind of got completely smeared for advocating for breathing treatments early on.

Speaker 2 He got pursued by the Texas Medical Board, pursued him because he was claiming, they thought he was making false claims about butesenide breathing treatments but they were invaluable I mean all my high-risk patients I recommended they get those

Speaker 2 and very low risk of issues with it

Speaker 1 just when I thought there was we were done that's even worse that's that's one of the worst ones like why would you stop that why would you want to stop people from doing that they well they claimed that you're spreading the virus

Speaker 1 I just think it's just such a hard truth to swallow: is that they wanted to suppress as many treatments as possible. That's a hard truth to swallow.

Speaker 2 Partially out of ignorance, laziness,

Speaker 2 some of them out of evil.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you for exposing this and sticking your neck out and becoming the person you are today through all this craziness.
And I really enjoyed talking to you. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 You have a lot of courage, you really do. And I hope you get through this as the winner.

Speaker 1 Thank you. All right, bye, everybody.