#2327 - AJ Gentile

Speaker 0 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

Speaker 1 The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Speaker 2 We're doing this? Yes.

Speaker 1 I'm glad you brought

Speaker 2 Ecklefish. You did not have to do that.

Speaker 1 I appreciate it. I fucking love your channel, dude.
I've spent countless hours watching your hilarious videos.

Speaker 2 So cool that you've even found it.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, Gino told me about it. A lot, your brother Gino, who I've been friends with for years, told me about it a long time ago that you guys were doing this.
And I was like, really?

Speaker 1 All right. Interesting.
And then I watched him like, this is fucking great. It's right up my alley.

Speaker 2 You would show clips all the time and it would drive Gino nuts. And then finally,

Speaker 2 it got named Reggie Watts was here. And he's like, you ever hear of the Wi-Files? You guys are talking about moon landing shit.
And you're like, what's that? And I don't know.

Speaker 2 A week or or two later, Gina gets a text.

Speaker 1 Are you the Wi-Fi?

Speaker 1 He didn't tell me the name of it.

Speaker 2 He was so excited.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a great show, dude. It's like everything I'm fascinated by.
Anunaki, aliens, secret bases. How did you get involved with making a show like this?

Speaker 1 Is this something you've always been interested in?

Speaker 2 I mean, like, grew up Art Bell.

Speaker 1 Yes. Dad.
There he is.

Speaker 2 There he is. I mean, the goat.

Speaker 1 The goat.

Speaker 2 Dad was an overnight cop, so always overnight radio. So it was always Dr.
Demento.

Speaker 1 Yes. You remember him?

Speaker 2 And Art Bell.

Speaker 2 So I kind of grew up with the weird stories. And it just got in the Twilight Zone.
We watched as kids. It was like required watching from dad, the old black and whites, the classics.

Speaker 2 So that was always in there. So

Speaker 2 I'll skip 20 years. We had a podcasting studio in LA on Sunset.
We were doing pretty well.

Speaker 2 We're hosting a lot of shows, guys you knew, like when COVID hit, Kill Tony came and worked out of our studio, Jeremiah, Metzger, all the guys. Didn't make any money, but it was a cool setup.

Speaker 2 But then they locked down the city, impossibly, and we didn't really know what to do. Then they set fire to the city somehow.

Speaker 2 And the wife and I are racing down Hollywood Boulevard being chased by people with bats and boxes of Adidas. And we were like,

Speaker 2 this is too much. And we just started packing.
And that's it. We got out.
And I didn't know what to do. So, you know, I'd been working in show biz,

Speaker 2 not super successfully, like on the cusp, but I've been a professional host, editor, producer, writer for TV. So I was like, YouTube, easy.
I'm a natural.

Speaker 2 So I started the channel talking about science and weird stuff. And it was the hardest thing I ever did.

Speaker 2 It was like impossible to do.

Speaker 2 And I started out.

Speaker 2 like following all the consultants. Yeah, high energy smash the like be a youtuber top 10 list and I did that for a little while It's like ah, no one's watching This feels stupid.

Speaker 2 And then I just, I said, fuck it. Let me just talk about the shit I want to talk about.
So I think the first good one was Operation High Jump.

Speaker 2 You know, Admiral Bird goes down to Antarctica with an armed fleet, supposedly looking for Nazi UFOs. And it's a six-month mission.
And in like a few days, they have to turn back and it's crazy stuff.

Speaker 2 So I did that story and it got a, you know, I think I got 50,000 views.

Speaker 1 I don't think I saw that one. It's an old one.
What happened in Operation High Jump?

Speaker 2 All right, Admiral Byrd goes down. This is just after the war.
Remember, the Nazis were fleeing to South America, so mostly Argentina.

Speaker 2 So the Nazis had established or tried to establish a base in Antarctica. That's true.
It's Neuschwabenland. Now, people say they were trying to build a Nazi base and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 They were really just looking for a whaling station to get oil. So Hitler didn't want to rely on outside sources.
So anyway, after the war, they go down there.

Speaker 2 We still don't really know specifically why. It was supposed to be just to see how our aircraft would operate in cold weather.
That was what they said.

Speaker 2 But this was a fleet that was armed to the teeth, like super, like armed. The first helicopters were there, destroyers.
So they go down there. It's supposed to be

Speaker 2 a multi-month mission, maybe six months. They get down there, and in like...
a matter of weeks, maybe even fewer,

Speaker 2 they just bail.

Speaker 2 And no one really knows why. There's a press contingent there.
No one knows what's going on.

Speaker 2 And Admiral Byrd starts giving these weird interviews. And the first one was in Spanish.
It might have been either Argentinian or Brazilian newspaper.

Speaker 2 And he talks about how there could be these craft that attack the United States from the poles and craft that can fly pole to pole. And people were like, what's that?

Speaker 2 And just sparked this crazy stuff. And you can hear him talking about these things.

Speaker 2 So High Jump goes down there to look for stuff. We don't really know why they left.

Speaker 1 Admiral Byrd was talking about these crafts?

Speaker 2 Admiral Richard E. Byrd, this famous guy, flew the North Pole like a super badass.
He was on paper the commanding officer, but he preferred to just fly his plane and do stuff.

Speaker 2 So the legend is they get down there. Admiral Byrd takes his plane, starts flying across Antarctica, and sees patches of green.
And he doesn't, can't believe it.

Speaker 2 And he's on the radio saying, I'm seeing this, this rolling hills, sun is shining. He keeps flying.
It gets greener and greener. And then

Speaker 2 he's like, I just saw Woolly Mammoths. Woolly mammoths grazing in the green.
And he keeps going and he's on the radio and then he's talking. I'm seeing all this stuff.

Speaker 2 The sun is bright and then radio contact goes out. He's flying and flying.
Suddenly he's engulfed in light. And he doesn't know where he is.
The green is behind him.

Speaker 2 He's just flying in light, just trying to get his bearings. And then up beside him,

Speaker 2 two flying saucers, just kind of next to him. Almost like you know, the FT F-16 is trying to wave you down.
He's two flying saucers, and he looks over, and they have swastikas on him.

Speaker 2 And he's like, Uh-oh. So he's on the stick, and he feels the stick shaking, and then

Speaker 2 the stick just goes dead. And then he goes down with the UFOs, and they just land into a cavern in the hollow earth, right? So that's how that happens.

Speaker 2 And they take Admiral Bird out, and they're tall aliens.

Speaker 1 With swastikas on their

Speaker 2 crafts. On the crafts.

Speaker 1 Like the ancient symbol.

Speaker 2 I don't know, which would be reversed, right?

Speaker 1 Well, I think there was a bunch of different versions. I think the Nazi one, it was like kind of tilted.
Yes. But there was a bunch of the Hindu ones and a lot of the Japanese ones.

Speaker 2 For thousands of years.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 A positive symbol of life and prosperity.

Speaker 2 We don't know how they were oriented because I debunked all this. I'm telling you the legend.
Right. Because that's kind of my format.
Right.

Speaker 2 I get you excited.

Speaker 1 I wish you explained that to people.

Speaker 1 You get everybody all jazzed up, and then at the end, you kind of.

Speaker 2 I get so much heat for it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 2 And I watch the numbers. Like, as soon as I say, but is it true?

Speaker 1 Like, everyone's done.

Speaker 1 Nobody wants to know that. No one wants to know.

Speaker 2 They want to know fun. And then I'll get the hate mail.
You ruined it for me.

Speaker 1 So what is the truth?

Speaker 2 The truth is a lot of that comes from Admiral Bird's diary, which was discovered years later, which was not his diary.

Speaker 1 Right. Oh, horseshit.
Horseshit.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he flew the North Pole, not the South Pole. But here's the interesting thing.
He was in a single-man aircraft. It only had so much fuel.
He was,

Speaker 2 which can only fly for a little bit. He was out of radio contact for three hours.
Nobody knows where he went.

Speaker 1 What was his take on it?

Speaker 2 We don't really know. That's kind of...

Speaker 1 So it's just he went radio silent for three hours and the legend grew.

Speaker 2 It's like he did that interview as soon as they got back, and then something must have happened because he got real quiet. But he would go on TV and he would talk.

Speaker 2 But the poll-to-pole thing was he was just warning that the poles are a vulnerable space.

Speaker 2 Like, we need to keep an eye on the North Pole because if there's a base on North or South Pole, you can attack from there. So, let's keep an eye on that.
It was kind of his point.

Speaker 1 The Antarctica situation is very strange because I don't know if you ever saw the Sean Ryan show where he talked to this guy that worked with the neutrino detector down there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, have you seen that?

Speaker 2 I haven't seen Sean do it, but I know the guy.

Speaker 1 And the guy was saying that it's not just a neutrino detector, it's a direct energy weapon that can cause earthquakes.

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Speaker 2 This is like the DEWs.

Speaker 2 The U.S. has always been fascinated by the director.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 That's where the HAARP conspiracies come from, all of that.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 if you don't know what HARP is, that's the high-altitude auroral research project. It's just this array of antennas in Alaska that's built by the U.S.
government to study the ionosphere.

Speaker 2 But for some reason, it costs hundreds of millions of dollars. And when you look at it, you're like, where'd the money go? It's like a a building's a box and it's a bunch of antennas.

Speaker 2 Where I'm getting at is,

Speaker 2 this is an array that can ionize parts of the atmosphere. So I did an episode on Project Bluebeam, which is a conspiracy about how

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 2 United Nations or the shadow government will create these holograms in the sky. And that will

Speaker 2 force one world government. We can get into it if you want to.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I kind of debunk it saying

Speaker 2 holograms need a substrate. You know, you need

Speaker 2 glass is really what you need.

Speaker 2 But then the technology has gotten to the point where you can ionize atmosphere and create things in the atmosphere. So something like HAARP conceivably could create something up there.

Speaker 2 Something visual. Something visual.
And I've heard people say that, you know, the UAP's UFOs

Speaker 2 may not be real. They could just be holograms for some reason.

Speaker 1 I heard that too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or a combination of many different things. Yes.

Speaker 1 It's probably a lot of different factors that people are seeing.

Speaker 1 I was watching a video the other day. I'm not sure if it's real, but I put it on my Instagram anyway, on my story because it was just fun, of ball lightning, which is real.

Speaker 1 But this ball lightning was moving around a parking lot, and it was extraordinary.

Speaker 1 This one. This is the

Speaker 1 plasma lasers that the Navy apparently has the ability to make some stuff like this. 3D images in the air.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You can also make them make sounds somehow too, which is an interesting thing.

Speaker 2 Well, because you're just vibrating air molecules. So in Project Bluebeam,

Speaker 2 the energy comes from a satellite array. So can satellites do that yet? If it can, they won't tell us.

Speaker 1 But that could be a way where you could throw off the enemy or freak people out and pretend that there's some sort of an alien invasion.

Speaker 2 It's really just a hologram. Really just a hologram.
And that's, you know, that's Bluebeam is supposed to

Speaker 2 get rid of religion because what will happen, according to the legend, is the holograms will manifest as whatever deity is dominant in the area, whether it's Jesus or Buddha, whomever.

Speaker 2 And atheists will see different things. And people will just freak out.

Speaker 2 Nationalism will go away.

Speaker 1 Atheists will see different things. Like, why?

Speaker 2 Because,

Speaker 2 according to the legend,

Speaker 2 the array or the technology will manipulate your mind. Again, HARP has been accused of this because you can manipulate someone's mind with electromagnetic frequencies at the right frequencies.

Speaker 2 So they could just tell you to see something.

Speaker 1 So like that specific?

Speaker 2 That specific. Allegedly.
Now I debunk a lot of it because

Speaker 2 the story originally came from a Canadian journalist named Serge Manast, fascinating figure. He comes out with this theory that's bonkers.

Speaker 2 And then the Canadian government takes his kids away because they're homeschooled. He gets harassed by authorities.

Speaker 2 He gets hauled off to jail for spreading disinformation, dies of a heart attack the next day. So then, of course, that's just like, that lights the fuse.

Speaker 1 So now it's like,

Speaker 2 what did he find?

Speaker 2 So, and he talked very publicly about all of this. So

Speaker 2 that's supposedly how it happens, is they manipulate our minds, they show us what we want to see, and then it's not like we won't resist authority. We'll beg for it.

Speaker 2 We'll just beg to take our freedom, take our rights, keep us safe.

Speaker 1 Whoa.

Speaker 1 Because something huge is happening and we need to consolidate.

Speaker 2 I feel like that's what would happen.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm sure you've seen the Hal Putoff thing. Did you see when Hal Putoff, Hal Putoff, George Bush,

Speaker 1 during his presidency, they floated the idea of disclosure? Did you ever see this?

Speaker 2 I didn't see it, but I know Hal's worked very well.

Speaker 1 So what Hal said was...

Speaker 1 He and several other scientists were brought aboard and they were given a task of writing pros and cons to disclosure.

Speaker 1 What are the things that are going to to be disrupted, and what are the things that's going to benefit the society, and attach a numerical value to each thing?

Speaker 1 And all the scientists at the end of the day showed that the numerical value for con was far higher. Like it was going to cause much more disruption than it would be beneficial.

Speaker 1 And so they decided not to disclose.

Speaker 1 But what they were telling Howe was: this was what you were planning for was retrieved crafts, not of this world, and biological entities that the United States government is in possession of.

Speaker 1 Should we disclose this?

Speaker 2 Right. I think I've definitely heard that.
I don't know if that is connected to the Brookings report, if I'm getting that correct.

Speaker 1 Which one's that?

Speaker 2 I forget when it would even come out.

Speaker 2 Here's all the CYAs. I'm an expert on nothing.
I don't know anything. I tell stories.

Speaker 1 Me too. Okay?

Speaker 2 How can you talk about Planet Serpo if you've never been?

Speaker 2 I've just, I just like this.

Speaker 2 I just, all due respect.

Speaker 1 That's going to go on forever.

Speaker 2 Yeah, forever.

Speaker 1 You've never been.

Speaker 2 Never been.

Speaker 2 I hope he's okay.

Speaker 1 Douglas Murray's a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 Oh, he's great.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I'm not an expert at anything. So I don't know when Brookings was, but it was the same thing.
It was a recommendation from the government that, look.

Speaker 1 That was a 1960.

Speaker 2 1960. Ah, same thing.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't know about the exact same thing, but

Speaker 1 I have some proposed studies of the implications of peaceful space activities for human affairs

Speaker 1 commissioned by NASA and created by the Brookings Institute. Collaboration, long-range study.

Speaker 2 Same result. Don't do it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I think they're probably right, but also I want to know.
Well,

Speaker 2 that puts us in a pickle, I think, is

Speaker 2 let's say it's real.

Speaker 2 I want to know too.

Speaker 2 But I don't want the Chinese to know. And I definitely don't want Iran to know.

Speaker 1 So I understand. Why do you not want them to know? Maybe we could all get along if we realize that there's actual aliens that are visiting us.

Speaker 1 I mean, wasn't that the Ronald Reagan speech in front of the UN? You've seen that, right? Sure. Yeah, the famous speech.

Speaker 2 But wasn't the SDI part of that speech? Is we'll all get along, but we're going to have laser weapons in space just in case we don't? Wasn't that that same speech?

Speaker 2 It might not have been, but it was about that same time. And that was all smoke and mirrors.

Speaker 1 Right, the Star Wars thing was fake, right?

Speaker 2 We couldn't get it to work. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was all fake.

Speaker 2 So maybe we'll all get along. Boy, that sounds nice.

Speaker 2 But, you know, Iran produces brilliant people, so intelligent great engineers doctors all of that but the government is bananas yeah so I mean you don't want to have brilliant scientists working like that I mean right we had brilliant scientists working for dictators in the past and it was not awesome right so like the Nazis that's who I mean yeah yeah that's who I mean so yeah it's really sketchy if they get the technology right well this is what Hal Putoff said he said that the government of the United States has at least 10 of of these things.

Speaker 1 And I said, well, other governments have them? And he said, yes. And I said, well, do they have similar numbers? He's like, we believe so.
So they don't know.

Speaker 1 So essentially what he was kind of alluding to is that there's basically like a kind of Manhattan project to try to back engineer these things.

Speaker 1 And whoever figures it out first is going to have a massive advantage.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 And it would be nice if it was us.

Speaker 2 It would be nice. Hal Putoff has been connected to a lot of disinformation campaigns.

Speaker 2 I love the guy and his work, but he has been connected to disinformation campaigns with known disinformation.

Speaker 1 Think about what subjects?

Speaker 2 About disclosure. Like, you heard the name Richard Doty?

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, he...

Speaker 1 Want some coffee?

Speaker 2 Yeah, let's have some coffee. I'm off booze right now.

Speaker 1 Forever?

Speaker 2 No, not forever. Cheers.
I just needed a break. It was becoming a little bit

Speaker 2 like a habit.

Speaker 1 You too? Yeah, I've been off for two and a half months. Maybe even a little more now.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I just decided one day, I'm done.

Speaker 1 And then I feel great.

Speaker 2 Feel better?

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Think clearer, wake up feeling better.
I have a nightclub, so I'm at my nightclub, my comedy club, all the time. And, you know, everybody's buying shots.

Speaker 1 And you want a beer, you want this, that. After a while, you're like, God, I feel like shit.
Yeah, you do.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it's like the illusion is that you won't have fun. I'm having the same amount of fun.
It's so much fun.

Speaker 2 Of course, because

Speaker 2 I'm funnier because I know what I'm talking about. Yes.
And I'm not embarrassed the next day.

Speaker 1 It just doesn't kill your inhibitions, but that's

Speaker 1 overrated. It is.
It's fun. I've had a good time boozing, but yeah, enough.

Speaker 2 I'm allowed to go back at the first of the month.

Speaker 2 You need to quit vices once in a while. If anything, just to prove that you can.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yeah, it's a good thing.
Just to prove that it doesn't have its hooks in you.

Speaker 2 Right. I can quit whenever I want.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 1 But can you? I've taken a few days off of social media and I always feel better, but I always go right back in.

Speaker 2 I don't know why I hardly ever look at it.

Speaker 1 It's just a massive distraction. Like, I don't read anything about myself, but I'm always, but more so, I'm always looking at, but I find a lot of interesting things too, especially on Instagram.

Speaker 1 But more so now than ever, my screen time on my phone is dedicated to YouTube. It's like when I come home, especially at the end of the night, come back from the club, I'm tired.
I want nonsense.

Speaker 2 I want Bigfoot. Same.

Speaker 2 I don't want to think too hard.

Speaker 1 I want, you know, I want

Speaker 1 Bob Lazar. I want Bigfoot.

Speaker 1 I want ancient civilizations. Just me and the dog watching TV.
Yep. You know, everyone's asleep.

Speaker 1 That's my favorite.

Speaker 2 Because no booze for me doesn't mean no gummies.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 So a half a gummy in a Bigfoot episode, I'm having a great time.

Speaker 1 That's the one that I wish was real, but I'm 99% sure it's horseshit. Same.
But I also wonder, I wonder, like,

Speaker 1 I wonder if

Speaker 1 under certain conditions it's real. Like, this is my thought.
This is going to sound squirrely.

Speaker 1 I think under heightened states of anxiety and fear, when you're alone in the woods, Maybe it's possible that the barrier between dimensions is slippery and you can see things that you would ordinarily never see.

Speaker 1 Like it might not even be as simple as this is a biological creature that lives here on Earth with us, but no one's ever found a body. It might be weirder than that.

Speaker 1 It might be these are some sort of hominid from somewhere else that can can appear. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace.
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Speaker 2 Native American legends say exactly that. That it's this creature that lives between worlds.
And the same with giants as well. They have the legends of the red-haired giants that were chased west.

Speaker 1 I'm glad we're getting to that.

Speaker 2 We're getting to giants.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because the giants thing is weird. When you go into the story, and I watched your episode on giants, I loved it.

Speaker 2 Maybe it was the

Speaker 1 Smithsonian.

Speaker 2 Oh, that was, yeah, that was G.E. Kincaid and the Smithsonian cover-up.
Yeah. Grand Canyon.
That's a good story.

Speaker 1 Well, the whole Grand Canyon thing is bananas. Like, there's areas of the Grand Canyon you cannot explore.

Speaker 2 You cannot go. You cannot fly over.
Right.

Speaker 2 And you can't fly under the rim. Yet when you go to those bad places, suddenly, while white plane flies over, under the rim, black helicopters show up.
I showed in my episode.

Speaker 2 I show the black helicopters showing up. Like

Speaker 2 they do show.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like they are protecting something. Something.
It's not as simple as this is a dangerous area because you can go to any dangerous area.

Speaker 2 You go just to the normal tourist area. It's like, be careful.
People fall. Two people a year fall.

Speaker 1 Yeah, someone fell recently. They did.
Yeah, an influencer. Of course, taking a selfie.

Speaker 1 But the

Speaker 1 Grand Canyon,

Speaker 1 there's been these crazy stories of people finding these Egyptian,

Speaker 1 these caverns with Egyptian artwork and hieroglyphics.

Speaker 1 These stories of artifacts that have been removed from there.

Speaker 2 So the story is, it shows up, I believe, in like the Phoenix Gazette. It's 1903 or so.
And the explorer is G.E. Kincaid, and he's going down, he's looking for gold deposits or whatever.

Speaker 2 This is just before Teddy Roosevelt made the Grand Canyon a preserve. He was a naturalist.
So he finds these steps that are clearly a man made.

Speaker 2 He follows the steps up, and there's a cave, and he goes in there, and he describes hieroglyphics that look Egyptian but are not quite.

Speaker 2 He finds a statue that he describes as like Buddha-like, not Egyptian, not human, but sort of like Buddha. And all these

Speaker 2 weapons, shields, gold, all sorts of stuff. He keeps going.
He finds a deserted city in the caves. And all these tunnels and caverns go everywhere.
And he's trying to map everything.

Speaker 2 He comes out and he goes back to town and he gathers together a group that we're going to go. We're going to go find this stuff again.

Speaker 2 And people are excited about it. And a couple of weeks go by, and everyone's gathered to go on the expedition.
He never shows. The expedition goes nowhere.

Speaker 2 And that's really the last we've heard of it.

Speaker 1 Well, and is there any photographs or anything?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 There never is of this stuff.

Speaker 1 Right. Just descriptions?

Speaker 2 And just a great story.

Speaker 1 Well, the great part of the story is the fact that you actually can't go there.

Speaker 1 And just the idea that there's an area where the military is protecting people from being foolish, that doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 Nobody asks why.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Like, nobody asks why. It really bothers me about that story in all of these, whether it's disclosure or whatever.
I don't hear anyone asking why. Well, they won't let us.
Well, who's they?

Speaker 2 Someone's in charge of stuff that's not the president

Speaker 2 or Congress.

Speaker 2 So who is it?

Speaker 2 So, you know, I.

Speaker 1 Is it possible there's some sort of a government installation down there somewhere?

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 it's all going to be woo-woo conspiracy stuff or it's real. Or G.E.
Kincaid found something and someone got to him.

Speaker 1 But if G.E. Kinkade found something, why would they want to hide some ancient civilization discovery, particularly in the early 1900s?

Speaker 1 Like, why? For what reason?

Speaker 2 I don't know why Graham Hancock is marginalized now.

Speaker 1 Right, but that, wouldn't you think that there's like less of a grip on that stuff in the 1900s and early 1900s?

Speaker 2 I would think so.

Speaker 2 So my guess would be treasure and money. That would be my guess.

Speaker 2 It shows up in the paper.

Speaker 2 The government goes down. They're like, there's a lot of stuff down here.
Let's grab it. Send it to the Smithsonian, who keeps 99% of the stuff stuff under wraps.

Speaker 2 They have, you know, a billion items that nobody can see. And then that's the end of it.

Speaker 1 But what the fuck? Which I would love to know the official reason. See if you can Google.
Is there an official reason why you're not allowed to go to certain areas of the Grand Canyon?

Speaker 2 They use a VPN there, brother.

Speaker 1 The story, I was looking at an article about the original article, and it says that the two guys mentioned might not have even existed.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 There's no evidence of them. G.E.
Kincaid? And another another guy named S.A. Jordan.
Oh, so it might be just a story that someone printed? Some horseshit?

Speaker 1 When I was looking into one of these things before, I found something explaining that back in the early 1900s when newspapers were a really popular thing to read.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it was like a game or if there was actual prizes people would play or like amongst themselves to try to get fake stories printed.

Speaker 1 If you could get the craziest story printed, you win like $500.

Speaker 2 I might be wrong, but I think Jordan was connected to the Smithsonian, at least according to the library.

Speaker 1 article.

Speaker 1 I pulled this from the Smithsonian debunk, which I mean, obviously they would if this is the way we're going to go with it, but them debunking this, and they gave two links, one to the original 1909 article and one to a 2008 update, and that's where I was pulling that from.

Speaker 2 I don't trust the Smithsonian. They're exempt from all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, like, there's a law passed not too long ago that if you have Native American artifacts that are important to that culture, especially burial artifacts, they must be returned.

Speaker 2 Unless you're the Smithsonian,

Speaker 2 then you can make a case that you don't have to give it back.

Speaker 1 How do they have so much power?

Speaker 2 It's a government agency.

Speaker 1 Smithsonian's a government agency. Oh, I didn't even know.
I thought it was a private agency. So there's no official story as to why this area of the Grand Canyon is off-limits.

Speaker 2 For your safety.

Speaker 1 Forbidden zone, they call it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's all I can find.

Speaker 1 That's fucking weird. That's fucking weird.
That this story comes from the very area that's forbidden. That's fucking weird.

Speaker 1 What are the odds?

Speaker 2 I don't believe in coincidences. So

Speaker 2 a lot of these stories come from places you just can't go.

Speaker 1 Has anybody tried to hike in?

Speaker 1 All the time. Or remove raft in.
Yeah, did they get busted?

Speaker 2 And busted, yeah, and arrested.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 2 You could find

Speaker 2 you could find online. I wish I knew the names

Speaker 2 of a team that went up there. That's who found the black helicopters.
And I use them in the video. And I credit them, so you can find their videos.

Speaker 2 They're up there for an hour, hour and a half,

Speaker 2 trying to find stuff. And what they found up in that forbidden zone is anchored into the ground, a giant hook, or like a loop.

Speaker 2 Like, what would you use that for? And that would be to repel down. That's the only reason that it would be there.
There's no explanation for what is this.

Speaker 2 They also found artifacts from that era, from the early 1900s, artifacts that people were there.

Speaker 2 So it's possible that they repelled that, like, they might have been standing right above that entrance. And there are reverse angles of that rock face that look a little weird.

Speaker 2 It could be pareidolia, but it.

Speaker 1 What's pareidolia?

Speaker 2 Pareidolia is

Speaker 2 the mind's ability to see objects in random noise. You know, it's something we evolved to, you know, to see predators in the forest.
That's why if you see a cloud that looks like Abraham Lincoln,

Speaker 2 it's not Abraham Lincoln.

Speaker 1 You know, it's pareidolia.

Speaker 2 But debunkers will always fall on pareidolia. So like the real believers, they hate that word.

Speaker 1 God, God, that would be. Imagine.
Everything would have to be rewritten.

Speaker 1 If they found some evidence of a lost civilization with no connection to any known civilization that was advanced, that was living in the Grand Canyon.

Speaker 2 Did you ever think about going?

Speaker 1 To the Grand Canyon?

Speaker 2 To go and just be an outlaw and go see.

Speaker 1 How would you get in, though? I mean, if they have black helicopters and they're scanning the sky or scanning the ground with some sort of a drone or a plane,

Speaker 2 we go in, we live in.

Speaker 1 Are you planning something? No, no, no. Hold on.
What should we do?

Speaker 2 I don't have a contract. All right.
So

Speaker 2 it's already dangerous me sitting here.

Speaker 2 But I got your back.

Speaker 1 If I go.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because even if they drag you out.

Speaker 2 Questions have to be posed.

Speaker 1 Right. Why couldn't I go there?

Speaker 2 What did he do wrong? Well, he violated this area.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, how come?

Speaker 1 Yeah, well,

Speaker 1 when you think about how dangerous the Grand Canyon is overall, there's not a safe area. It's literally a canyon.
You could fall at any of a million spots along the way to your death.

Speaker 2 Have you been there?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 It's incredible. You couldn't paint a better picture.
But as you get closer to that edge, you can feel your... your amygdala going, oh,

Speaker 1 back up.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like, it's seriously dangerous.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 God, the problem is I want to believe with all these things. Yeah, same.
Most people enjoy your show.

Speaker 1 Want to believe.

Speaker 2 That's why it's so fun. And I don't believe in most of the stuff I talk about.
But when I approach a story, I try to find as much evidence as I can to support it.

Speaker 2 And I also want to find the other side. So that what we're left with is

Speaker 2 some truth. And not all stories can be fully debunked.
And I've had my mind flipped a couple of times. You know, crop circles, hollow moon, some really crazy shit have flipped me around.

Speaker 1 Crop circles is a weird one.

Speaker 2 So weird.

Speaker 1 It's a weird one because when I first saw them, I'm like, what is that? And then I saw that these guys were doing them with boards and string. I was like, oh, it's just people being silly.

Speaker 1 And then I watched a whole documentary about how the energy that bent these things over caused these nodes to explode as if they had been cooked in a microwave. Correct.
Like, what?

Speaker 1 And then you find out that the actual stalks are woven together. Correct.
It's not that they're pressed down. They're woven together.

Speaker 1 And that these are complex geometric designs that would have taken people weeks to map out.

Speaker 1 And there's no footprints leading up to it. There's no roads, no machinery, no evidence of any use of any kind of machinery.

Speaker 1 And these things appear like that, like people have flown over an area and then flown back an hour or two later and there's immense football field size, perfect geometry that no one can explain how it was created.

Speaker 2 Correct. So the nodes in the stalks, a node is like a knuckle on your fingers.
So

Speaker 2 those are there for phototropism to bend toward light. So what you're talking about is these things are bent over.
They're bent over at right angles. It can only be done with high energy.

Speaker 2 But also around these crop circles, they're finding microscopic metallic spheroids in around the circles. And that's not a conspiracy theory.
They're finding them.

Speaker 2 And there are these magnetic fields around the circles. And you can see videos online of people going into these crop circles and their hands start to get red.
Things are happening to them.

Speaker 2 So I went into crop circles thinking it was all guys with boards. But then when you watch people with boards making a crop circle, it's a mess.
They can't do this.

Speaker 2 And you cannot bend the nodes of reeds and weave them together in a perfect. You can't do it.

Speaker 2 So that was, as I'm doing the research, I'm like, all right, 99% of them are fake, but there's this 1% that I cannot explain.

Speaker 1 The famous video where you see the orbs circling around the field in England, and then the crop circle slowly starts to emerge. Has that been debunked?

Speaker 2 Semi. It's controversial because the guy who released that video, I don't know his name offhand, allegedly went to a visual effects house

Speaker 2 and released it. But they somehow put that thing together in a matter of hours, which is suspicious.
So in my episode on it, I said, all right, here's what the skeptics say.

Speaker 2 But, you know, in the 1990s to do that kind of VFX work, because it looks real.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 To me, I'm on the fence about it.

Speaker 1 It's very convenient that they got the footage.

Speaker 2 It is.

Speaker 2 It is.

Speaker 2 Operation Blackbird was a famous operation in 1990 to try and capture the footage live by a great researcher named Colin Andrews.

Speaker 1 Oh, he's the guy that does the books on crop circles, right? Yes. Yeah, he's all in.

Speaker 2 He's all in, and he got a lot of support for Blackbird. And not only did nothing happen, he was totally embarrassed by it.
And it was all like streaming live, and a lot of people were involved.

Speaker 2 He's embarrassed.

Speaker 2 We find out later that while they're like waiting for the circles to happen, just a few miles away, there's a milit uh top secret military operation doing whatever they're doing he doesn't know why and then he gets a knock on the door from someone you know men in black whoever it is that said first offers him money to stop his work then threatens him with whatever threatens his family and he doesn't know who this guy is they go back and look at the tapes and he sees the guy in the background of like one of the tv crews so The theory is some type of intelligence was embedded into Blackbird, made to discredit him.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that was kind of the end of Colin Andrews because he was a legit researcher at that point.

Speaker 2 Now he's fringe, and now he's pseudoscience. But I get into that in the episode.
That was something I discovered. I never knew that there was intelligence involved.

Speaker 2 I didn't know that there was a military op, which it's confirmed.

Speaker 1 It's wild. So do you think they discredited him on purpose? Yes.

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 1 To make the crop circle thing looks foolish. But like, what is the crop circle thing, like, what is the, out of the believers, what is the best theory?

Speaker 1 the believers is that it's a it's a way to message craft or it's a landing site or it's some type of communication but why why would why would they do it in wheat fields i i don't know it doesn't make sense to me if you have the technology just you know yeah pick up the phone you know you there's better ways than just mowing wheat down but i you know i don't understand do you know the one about the the mandelbrot set i've i've seen it yeah I think that one is really weird because I think it coincides with the fractal creation of the Mandelbrot set by these people that are into this kind of geometry and fractals.

Speaker 1 Someone made the Mandelbrot set, which is essentially an infinite fractal of spectacular design.

Speaker 2 And this is before Lorenz and the Lorenz Attractor. I think it's before that, isn't it? I don't know.
Before it was mainstream.

Speaker 1 Yeah, before it was mainstream, yes. And then when this thing appears and people are like, well, what is this design?

Speaker 1 And then they connect it to this Mandelbroth set, which is someone would have to have some very esoteric information to be able to.

Speaker 2 And it's the Mandelbroth set using Fibonacci numbers. Yes.
And the fee, the golden ratio. And it's accurate.
It's accurate down to inches.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You can't do that.

Speaker 1 Well, maybe you can, but like, how and how long would it take? And how much planning? And how many people? And what would you use?

Speaker 1 Like, what is the technology they would use to bend those things over that way and weave them? It's very weird stuff.

Speaker 2 It's weird.

Speaker 1 Because it's

Speaker 1 these, you know, the way these fractals work, it's this ratio in the geometry is like their specific sizes. This one is half the size of that one, which is half the size of that, which is that.

Speaker 1 And it goes on and on forever. And when you see it, see if you can find the Mandelbrot set.

Speaker 2 It's maybe the most spectacular crop circle.

Speaker 1 It's weird. It's really weird because it's fucking enormous.

Speaker 1 You know? And it seems so stupid.

Speaker 1 Wow, there's a whole bunch of them. The Mandelbrot set is the one with the look like a heart

Speaker 1 above that one right there. Yeah, that's it.
That's the Mandelbrot set.

Speaker 2 Yep. And there's some other fractals there as well.

Speaker 1 I was looking at an article that says these two guys took on the challenge and did it for a TV show in the BBC.

Speaker 2 They did. If you watch them do it, it's clumsy AF.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it it doesn't look as good. Like,

Speaker 1 I know they always say that these guys did it, but like,

Speaker 2 you can't really see it there, but those flattened reeds, they're woven together.

Speaker 1 Some of the weirder ones, go back to other crop circles. You had some other images before that.
There were some other ones,

Speaker 1 those ones, those spirals. Right.
Like that one right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That is fucking wild. That's wild.
Like, this is multiple football fields long and wide. So, how?

Speaker 1 Make that one a little bigger, please.

Speaker 2 And one of these, I don't know if it's that one in particular, showed up right next to Stonehenge. Like, like a tennis ball throw away.

Speaker 1 Like, that is crazy. To not, first of all, if you're on the ground, all right, just the measurements alone, to make each one the equal distance between circles.

Speaker 1 you know, in the whatever six different blades that you have that stem from the center, They're all the same distance. They're all the same size.

Speaker 2 The small circles are the ones that are most interesting. Because how hard is that to do? Right.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 And they're uniform. And it's like, what is that?

Speaker 1 Like, what the fuck is that?

Speaker 1 And who's if that is a hoax, it's so bizarre that it's only these two goofballs that were making really shitty ones with boards and strings.

Speaker 1 And yet there's hundreds, if not thousands, of these like really complex ones. Yeah, those exist.

Speaker 2 Those are the guys that are on, you can see them doing it live.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but those guys, there's no way they had enough time to do all these things.

Speaker 2 And it looked terrible.

Speaker 2 Look, he's just trampling it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, look, you can certainly make crop circles with a string and a board.
You certainly can make crop circles.

Speaker 1 But you're, and you know, it always gets connected, like believing in aliens and everything else. But it's not, no one's even saying aliens.

Speaker 1 Like, it could be some sort of energy from something that we possess, something that humans possess, that they somehow or another aim at these areas. Like, what is that one above it?

Speaker 1 Go that one right there, above, like, right, right there. What the fuck is that thing? Look at that.
They are in the same county. 80% of them come from the same county in England.
Which is also weird.

Speaker 2 Now, people will correct me in the comments, but I believe that middle piece of geometry is a hypercube, isn't it? Isn't that a four-dimensional cube?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 A tesseract?

Speaker 1 It does look like it, but.

Speaker 1 Like, what the fuck? How long would that take? That seems like that would take a long time to do.

Speaker 2 Stonehenge is under constant surveillance and circles show up overnight.

Speaker 1 Very weird stuff.

Speaker 2 There's an interesting conspiracy theory.

Speaker 1 What the fuck, dude?

Speaker 2 To crop circles that we can get into later.

Speaker 1 Wiltshire has the most crop circles in England. Yes.
And it's mostly in England, too, which is also weird.

Speaker 2 And it's mostly in Wiltshire.

Speaker 2 Man, like,

Speaker 1 Is there some sort of a theory by the kooks?

Speaker 2 Ley lines.

Speaker 1 Ley lines.

Speaker 2 That they're happening on these segments of energy that intersect.

Speaker 1 What is that black and white one, Jamie? Click on that one.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 That one.

Speaker 1 What the fuck is that?

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 On a mountain. Crazy.

Speaker 1 Is that what that is? Notch circle 16. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 I've never seen that one. It's wild.

Speaker 1 I mean, just the amount of time that it would take to do these things. So,

Speaker 1 ley lines. So, this is the theory?

Speaker 2 That's the theory. Have you heard about ley lines? Kind of.
It's this

Speaker 2 alleged grid of energy that circles the Earth. And almost like how magnetic fields work.
And these energy lines have intersection points.

Speaker 2 And on these intersection points are things like Stonehenge, Giza. Whoa.

Speaker 1 Sits in snow

Speaker 2 wow, where are the tracks in?

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 2 You know, it.

Speaker 1 Okay, what the fuck is that? So this is no footprints, no tracks.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but that could be

Speaker 1 the people that discovered it. Right.
Oh, this is the guy that did it, though. Oh, the guy's going to do it.
It's an artist that did this.

Speaker 1 These aren't crop circles. This is an artist doing it.
That's kind of what I was trying to say. Fucking incredible.
An artist did that? Yeah, it has the guy's name on that first picture we had.

Speaker 1 He was amazing. Simon Beck.

Speaker 2 So the artist angle is a conspiracy angle. There's a man named John Lundberg, who was part of a group called CircleMakerMakers.org, which is an art project and also

Speaker 2 a sociology experiment. He would make fake crop circles to see how people would react.

Speaker 2 Years later, Lundberg and some associates created a documentary called Mirage Men, which is an excellent documentary.

Speaker 2 And it's mostly about Richard Doty and his disinformation campaign on behalf of the Air Force to discredit the UFO community, drove Paul Benowitz nuts.

Speaker 2 Bill Moore, who's the guy who essentially brought Roswell out to the public, Bill Moore was taking payments and being fed information from Doty to muddy the waters in the UFL community.

Speaker 2 He finally came clean in 89, was booed off the stage at MUFON, and everything just unraveled. So it's all disinfo.
Did you booed him off the stage?

Speaker 2 Because he finally said, look, I've been working with the government. A lot of the stuff I've been saying, they told me to say, Majestic 12, all this stuff was coming from Doty.

Speaker 2 and they didn't want to hear it. They didn't want to hear.
And his career was basically over that day. Wow.
Bill Moore. There was no Roswell story before Moore, before his book.

Speaker 2 And, you know, that was Doty.

Speaker 2 So the documentary about Doty was directed and put together by Lundberg and his associates.

Speaker 2 Lundberg was one of the original circle makers that would make these fake crop circles to see how people would react. I just thought it was an interesting connection.

Speaker 1 But it's interesting because clearly some people are making these. But like, what was the origins of it? Because I'm sure you've seen that

Speaker 1 image from the newspaper of the devil with a scythe.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? And they're talking about crop circles like back in like the 17 1800s. 1678.
Yeah, 1600s. Wow.
First crop circle ever reported was in 1678.

Speaker 1 According to the story, a farmer, the crop mower were arguing about the cost of harvesting the farmer's oat field.

Speaker 1 The farmer was furious at the mower's price and stormed off swearing that the devil himself should harvest the crop.

Speaker 1 That night, a dazzling light lit up the oat field, and in the morning, the farmer discovered perfectly round circles in his crops.

Speaker 1 He was so frightened by the circles, which he thought could only have been so neatly mowed by the devil or some infernal spirit, that he abandoned any attempt to harvest the field.

Speaker 1 That's a little sketchy.

Speaker 1 You're scared of circles. Come on, pussy.

Speaker 1 Really, though?

Speaker 2 If there were crop circles in my backyard, I would be a little nervous.

Speaker 1 I would be curious. It's not terrifying, right? They're not something that would scare me away from harvesting my crop.

Speaker 2 No, I'm more afraid of the government than I am of, you know, that stuff.

Speaker 1 Crop circles don't seem to be killing anybody.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 But it's like, what is so ley lines? So these things are to differentiate areas so they could see them from the sky.

Speaker 2 Is that the idea? The ley lines are the energy lines.

Speaker 2 Whatever, a mystical energy. It's not a scientific energy.
And where the lines intersect is where you see sites like machu picchu giza stonehenge all these ancient sites there's the ley lines

Speaker 2 but ley lines is you know it's it's semi-debunkable because if you if you connect enough lines you're gonna find patterns you're gonna find geometry right right right you go looking for it right yeah

Speaker 1 very just very weird stuff the i like i said i used to think it was total nonsense until i saw some documentaries on it where they were talking about the nodes they were talking about some of these things.

Speaker 1 They're just so complex and they appear so quickly.

Speaker 2 The nodes and the braiding to me was like, okay, now I got to change my approach to this.

Speaker 1 What do you think it is?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 I think it's beyond us.

Speaker 2 We're just monkeys trying to guess math.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 Every time we make a guess on this show, someone's laughing.

Speaker 2 Of course. Someone's like, you know, they think it's a landing site.

Speaker 1 Well, it's one of those subjects that if you even entertain it, you're almost immediately a fool, which I'm super comfortable with being a fool.

Speaker 1 I entertain a lot of foolish ideas. But that one is particularly foolish because people will always point to those guys with boards.
And I'm like, not so fast.

Speaker 1 Yeah, those guys with boards definitely made some circles. But this is, there's some of them that are really spectacular.
They are.

Speaker 1 And it just doesn't, and when you factor in the nodes and you factor in the weaving and then these incredible geometric shapes, like, how are you even mapping that? Like, how are you doing that?

Speaker 1 How many people are involved? How long does it take?

Speaker 2 You know, it would take people so long, it would never be that accurate.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 With, you know, with ropes and boards, you know, I just don't see it.

Speaker 1 Right, but, like, it leaves you with this weird mystery. Just like, what? What is this? I wish I knew.
It's just one of those things that, like, it's almost like the universe is laughing at us.

Speaker 1 Every now and then, it just shows you something that's so goofy that you have to go, well, what is real?

Speaker 2 You know, a great, it was a hoax, but a great crop circle was the Arecibo response. Do you know that one? Yes.
That was a great one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We sent the Arecibo message out, but it had all the symbols on it.

Speaker 1 And it sent it back with like a half of an alien face.

Speaker 2 Right, and it showed where in their solar system they lived, what their DNA was like. Yeah, it was a great one.

Speaker 1 Who did that one?

Speaker 2 I don't know who did it. I don't know if it was Circle Makers.
I don't know who it was, but it was a hoax.

Speaker 2 But it was like a really well-thought-out one.

Speaker 1 Well, that one kind of looks like a hoax. Like, it's so on the nose.
You have an alien face in the crop circle.

Speaker 2 Wasn't that different than the Arecibo response?

Speaker 2 I forget.

Speaker 1 I think they were related.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure, though.

Speaker 2 The response I thought was so cool.

Speaker 1 I thought the Arecibo response was aligned with that

Speaker 1 UFO thing, the alien face. See if you can find the crop circle that says it, Jamie.

Speaker 2 You could be right. As soon as you see the alien face, you're out.

Speaker 1 I think the Arecibo response is next to the... There it is above that, Jamie.
You just had it. If you scroll, go to the top right there.
Bam.

Speaker 1 Okay, so that's different.

Speaker 2 That's different, but there's an Arecibo is the answer.

Speaker 1 There's a real problem cover for someone on Apple. Right, but the crop circle is a real crop circle.

Speaker 1 Somebody actually made that. Right.

Speaker 2 And that's a message in that circle. That spiral is a message.

Speaker 1 Look at that one to the right.

Speaker 2 There's the Arecibo response down there with the humanoid face.

Speaker 1 Yes, that's it. That's it.

Speaker 1 Very weird. So that's a hoax.

Speaker 2 That's a hoax, but boy, it's a good one.

Speaker 1 It's a fucking great one. Go back a couple of posts.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right there. That one on the right-hand side.
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 It's the small circles that get me.

Speaker 1 Well, it's fucking. If it is a hoax, it's amazing.

Speaker 1 That is just so weird.

Speaker 1 But again, it's like one of those, like, it doesn't, it's not satisfying.

Speaker 2 No, it's not.

Speaker 1 You know, there's not like every, it just, at the end of it, you're just like,

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 That's why the worst question is, what do you think it is?

Speaker 1 Right. I was hoping you had something stupid.

Speaker 2 I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know either. But I do know that I want to believe, which is always the problem with me, with all these things.
You know, I want to believe the bases in Antarctica.

Speaker 1 I want to believe that there's pyramids up there, all that stuff.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And when you find out something's debunked, how do you feel?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 2 you know.

Speaker 1 Are you okay? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, disappointed, but.

Speaker 2 But there's a part of you that goes, yeah, that's probably right.

Speaker 1 Well, I think most of them are bullshit. I think, like, most UFO sightings are bullshit.
Most UFO sightings are probably people seeing experimental military aircraft and things along those lines.

Speaker 1 Satellites, that's a big big one. Like those, the Starlink ones just fly across the night sky.
People are like, oh my god, it's an alien.

Speaker 2 It's not an alien. You could see them with your naked eye.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But if you didn't know what it was, it looks like a fleet of ships flying across the sky.

Speaker 2 And the way that they alternate lights, it looks like there's an intelligence to it.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've never seen anything myself.

Speaker 2 Have you? No. Gino has.

Speaker 2 What did he see? Gino saw it, and

Speaker 2 I think maybe Jeremiah said he saw the same thing.

Speaker 2 Gino saw a giant orb of light over the Pacific Ocean, and he watched it for a long time. And I said, where's the photo of it? And he said, I was so in awe, I didn't even think to get out my phone.

Speaker 2 It's like, man, but that's a common...

Speaker 1 thing you hear right is you're just so in awe you don't think i gotta right selfie this right you probably if you actually saw something there's a high probability that you'd be so freaked out you'd be just in the moment like whoa this episode is brought to you by Activision.

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Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 2 And you know, Gino's legit. He's not

Speaker 1 a bullshit artist. Yeah.
Now, I've talked to quite a Dave Foley at a sighting. He saw something.

Speaker 2 Gino talked to Dave about, they saw the same thing.

Speaker 1 Mmm. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, there's always the question of like what's going on off the coast. And I'm sure you're aware of this one.

Speaker 1 We actually talked about it the other day, but we never found it. There's a structure that's off of Malibu in the deep water that was available on Google Maps.

Speaker 2 It was a structure.

Speaker 1 Was. And now it's blurred out.
Yep. But it looked like there's openings in it.
There's a top that's flat. It looks like...
Looks like a base. Looks like a base.

Speaker 2 Looks like a base. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, if now it doesn't.

Speaker 2 Now it just looks like blurry water.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like, why does it look different now? Like, what's going on?

Speaker 2 With a gun to my head, all the weird stuff is in the ocean. It's not from another planet.
Really? No, I don't know. Who knows? But it makes a lot more sense that the stuff we're seeing...

Speaker 2 It's the best place to hide is just deep water.

Speaker 1 So not from another planet originally? Like maybe originally, and that's where they make their base?

Speaker 2 It's hard for me to square how to travel great distances. It's hard for me to square that.

Speaker 2 You know, I know that we've got the Albuquerque drive and warp drive and all these theoretical things about compressing space-time and all of that. You know, I get it.

Speaker 2 But it's hard for me to think that that's solvable.

Speaker 2 But what is interesting interesting is maybe another species evolved alongside of us a long time ago and has been here a long time and said, you know what, let's go.

Speaker 2 This is where we go to avoid cataclysms and geological instability.

Speaker 1 Let's go underwater. That's a weird one, though, because like what kind of technology are you utilizing?

Speaker 1 How did you achieve that level of technological superiority and not completely control man?

Speaker 1 Because if I was an intelligent species that was capable of developing bases under the water, I'd be super concerned at all the different things that human beings are doing to ruin things.

Speaker 1 Like if we had chimps that all of a sudden had flamethrowers and they were lighting the jungle on fire, we'd probably take their flamethrowers.

Speaker 2 So like we would turn off a nuclear reactor.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Right.
So

Speaker 2 we talk about humans. If if if this theory is true, that they evolved here, there were no humans.
Humans is are 300,000 years old.

Speaker 2 That's not it would take whatever species a lot longer than that to evolve to this technological level. And we've seen the the craft just zip into water with no displacement.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 You know, where are they going? And

Speaker 2 there are unnamed whistleblowers, you know, anonymous sources that say there's a base near the Bermuda Triangle. The Navy knows about it.
They know not to get close. It moves around a little bit.

Speaker 2 I'm going to do an episode on it soon because it's just too good not to. Corroborated by another...
biologist who said he worked with the retrieval team and he asked their stuff.

Speaker 2 And what this base does is it

Speaker 2 from raw materials creates craft to go on specific missions. So it's always the question, you know, why is there a saucer? Why does it look like a pyramid? Why is it this?

Speaker 2 It's because they're custom built for a mission. And there's an AI and a species down there and they say, all right, we're going to go survey Mount Hayes in Alaska, super fascinating place.

Speaker 2 So we only need a scanning gear or some propulsion. I mean, we just build it.
It fits in an orb, send it out. does its thing, comes back, and then it gets broken down to its parts.

Speaker 2 And then another mission, build it. It's going to be a triangle.
It's going to be this or that. Does its mission, comes back.
To me, that makes good sense.

Speaker 2 A good way to do that, a good way to conserve resources, not have to go out and get stuff.

Speaker 2 Hmm. I like the theory.
That's a fun. It's a fun theory.

Speaker 1 It's a fun theory. Yeah.
It's a fun theory also that if you were

Speaker 1 if you were creating bases here, like say if they're coming from somewhere else and they want to visit us, it would be far more

Speaker 1 logical to develop some sort of a base with resources and you know where you could you could observe things and they can exist there completely undetected and then be able to go to wherever they're from back and forth.

Speaker 1 But when they're here on Earth, they would be undetected. Right.
And

Speaker 1 the ocean is literally 70-something percent of the Earth's surface.

Speaker 2 And we've mapped, I think, two or three percent of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It'd be a good place to hide and plain sight.

Speaker 2 That's what I would do. And to make things from raw materials, meaning like molecular level stuff,

Speaker 2 I mean, you're totally off-grid. You know, we don't need to strip mine.
We got everything here.

Speaker 1 Right, right. And if you have something that's a transmedium vehicle, so it doesn't displace the water.
It w works on some sort of a warp drive or something.

Speaker 2 I think you have to get into interdimensionality then and all.

Speaker 2 It gets a little wild.

Speaker 2 But if you're not displacing air or water,

Speaker 2 that that means you're phasing through matter.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Which is theoretically doable because everything is mostly space.

Speaker 1 Well, they said they've mapped things going under the water 500 knots. Right.
Without making a splash. Yeah.
No ripples, no discernible waves.

Speaker 2 Greg Lugainis, right in there. Nothing.

Speaker 1 500 knots under the water. I mean, what the fuck could do that?

Speaker 1 The amount of energy you'd have to have to go through that much resistance of deep water, 500 miles an hour, 500 knots.

Speaker 2 Right. Look at how when they do missile tests from subs, how those things are just like, ah, trying to get out of the water.
Yeah. And these things just go, bloop.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And nothing.

Speaker 1 Well, that's the weird ones. But that would make you also think like maybe it is a hologram.
Because if there are these transmedium things, but the thing is, they're seeing them with radar.

Speaker 2 Right, which means heat signature or mass.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Or electromagnetic displacement.

Speaker 1 Or if it was, if it is some sort of

Speaker 1 photons, like some sort of a projection, would that not have some kind of a heat signature?

Speaker 2 It would if it was ionized air.

Speaker 2 You know, that would be plasma, so that was hot, if that's what it is.

Speaker 2 But when they go into the water, we see them under the water for a second, and you don't see any refraction.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 So that kind of screws up the like the holographic projection theory a little bit, because there's no light refraction.

Speaker 2 So how did you do

Speaker 2 that?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, I'm asking you how you do that.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know either.
I mean, that's my answer. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, you've had physicists on here that I've seen go.

Speaker 1 Uh.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, the really crazy ones are the ones that the fighter pilots have seen. Because,

Speaker 1 you know, particularly Commander Fraver. and the other people that were on that mission with him.
So two separate jets. You have four people that are eyewitness to this thing.

Speaker 1 And then that there was something actually under the surface of the water like an aircraft carrier, an enormous thing, that this Tic-Tac is hovering above and then that thing descends into the water.

Speaker 1 The Tic-Tac turns towards them, jamming their signal, is hovering in space and then shoots off at such an insane rate of speed that

Speaker 1 most of the things that we have on Earth would just disintegrate and fall apart just from the sheer pressure.

Speaker 2 Of course. And from the inertia that can be done.
Now, if I were doing an episode on Tic Tac or or GoFast or Gimbal, I would be remiss if I didn't include Mick West's analysis of those.

Speaker 2 And I know you've talked to Mick on and off threads.

Speaker 1 He's like a professional debunker. He is.
He wants to debunk things that I don't think can be debunked.

Speaker 2 He does. He approaches it as it's definitely fake, and I'm going to show you that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, everything is definitely fake. Almost to the point where I'm like, who are you working for? Right, right.
Who you working for?

Speaker 2 Everyone thinks we're CIA, by the way. You mean you? Oh, yeah.
Reddit is convinced I'm CIA.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 Me too? That's why my channel blew up in two and a half years.

Speaker 1 Because the CIA. CIA is back.
Oh, I've heard that before. I've heard that about many people.
Like, the reason why they got successful. I've heard that about me, too.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But, like, go back to 2009 where I have 200 viewers. Like, the CIA sucked back then.

Speaker 1 They weren't helping me at all.

Speaker 2 Dude, I remember just watching you in little squares on Ustream, just like the top of your head, Brian and Duncan. I mean, that's what I...
Gino's like, you got to watch Joe Rogan's show on Ustream.

Speaker 2 I'm like, what are you talking about? He's a comic. He's like, he's got Graham Hancock on.
And I went, oh, I got to watch that. And that's when I started watching.

Speaker 1 I think Graham was our first serious guest. So it was Duncan and I, and we were in my house, and Graham flew from England.
We ate pizza in my kitchen. It was the first time I got to meet him.

Speaker 1 I was so pumped because I've read his book in the 90s.

Speaker 1 Same. Yeah, Fingerprints of the Gods, amazing book.

Speaker 2 From Art Bellas, who told me about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I remember my wife was like, You should read like real, real archaeology. I'm like, No, this is fucking interesting shit.

Speaker 2 Why is it? Is your wife a scientist or something? No, no, no.

Speaker 1 She's just a little more serious than me. Yeah.
My wife is smarter than me.

Speaker 1 Same. Same.
But it's like, I still to this day will pick up those books and read them. And it's like,

Speaker 1 I do not think that modern archaeology has the full story. And I've seen the way they behave.
I saw the way Flint Dibble behaved with Graham. They're gatekeepers.

Speaker 1 They don't want anyone to have any information that they don't have. So even in the face of very compelling information, they dismiss

Speaker 1 openly, quickly, without any consideration.

Speaker 1 They just want to dismiss it. And then they want to pretend that any archaeologist that presents any kind of information that fucks up the narrative isn't immediately attacked.
And they are.

Speaker 1 Their careers are ruined. Whether you go back to Clovis first or any of these different archaeologists that have proposed alternative theories of the human timeline,

Speaker 1 all of the conventional archaeologists, all the mainstream people attacked them.

Speaker 1 Dismissed them. Randall Carlson, Robert Schock, John Andrew West.

Speaker 2 If I were advising Graham, I would have said, don't do that debate. Don't do it.
There's no way to come off. You're not going to convince anybody, and you're just going to come off not looking great.

Speaker 2 And I've seen his response on his own site. He's even said that was probably a mistake.
He wasn't prepared enough. But you'll never be prepared enough for a professional debunker.
You just won't be.

Speaker 2 They'll have too much. So I would have told him,

Speaker 2 don't go into the lion's den.

Speaker 1 Well, the problem was he wasn't being honest. Flint was not being honest about the information that we have, particularly about offshore shipwrecks.
It was just not honest. Nope.

Speaker 1 You know, and the amount that they have discovered, not honest.

Speaker 2 And Graham didn't know that at the time.

Speaker 1 And also the timeline of how old these are. When you get to 5,000, 6,000 years, there's no ship left.
All you have is like the pottery and whatever is on the ground at the bottom.

Speaker 1 And if you're talking about 10,000 years, 15,000 years, who's to say that that's not completely covered by sediment by then? And it probably would be.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, I watched a little of Zaya Wass on here.

Speaker 1 That's all you need. Just a little.
For that episode, you get it.

Speaker 2 I couldn't believe he's still doing it. I mean,

Speaker 2 maybe he was around when they actually built the things.

Speaker 1 I think that was probably the best advertisement for alternative archaeology you're ever going to get. When you see the guy that's the gatekeeper and how closed-minded he is.

Speaker 2 He didn't mention the capstones,

Speaker 2 the limestone facing from Tor. He didn't even talk about it.

Speaker 1 Well, also, this just

Speaker 1 saying it was the national project, and that's how they were able to get 80-ton stones 500 miles away through the mountains on sleds. Like, come on.

Speaker 2 The Aslan stones are from 1,200 miles away.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, the Tor stones are,

Speaker 2 I don't know, 20, 30 miles away or whatever.

Speaker 1 How about those Lebanon stones at Baalbek?

Speaker 2 Baalbek, they can't.

Speaker 2 How many tons is that? You need a person standing on it to even see the size of it. You've never seen the Baalbek stone, if you're listening.
The thing is, it's like a skyscraper on its side. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's one solid piece.

Speaker 1 And it was moved there. Yes.

Speaker 1 See, pull up the Baalbek stones in Lebanon because there's stuff that's above it.

Speaker 1 that is like of a more recent time period, but it seems to have been put there on on top of these older stones that are so big they don't make any sense.

Speaker 1 Like, that's just one of them that was quarried but not moved.

Speaker 1 But the ones that are in place, go to the ones that, like, see, like, these ones, the ones that are above, so they're the lower stones and the ones above.

Speaker 1 You don't realize how big they are unless you can get a human being to stand next to them, but they are preposterously big. Like, there you go.
Right. Like, you

Speaker 2 15 feet high, 30, 40 feet long. I mean, they're shown in metric, so I'm confused.

Speaker 1 Incredible.

Speaker 1 And who? Who did it? And when? When was that done? And then there's like Malta, like that stuff that they think Malta was constructed when

Speaker 1 the sea levels were much lower. So there was a way to make a path to there from Italy and from these other places because they found Neanderthal bones there.
And

Speaker 2 allegedly giants built that. And Darinkuyu and all the hidden cities underneath Cappadocia and Turkey that they're finding are connected.

Speaker 1 Those are nuts.

Speaker 2 No one knows who made them.

Speaker 1 No one knows who made them, and they can have thousands of people living underground.

Speaker 2 They can bring fresh water from the aquifers. They can bring fresh air and circulate it.
They have defensive mechanisms with these giant stones, and nobody knows how they made them.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And who?

Speaker 2 And why.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Great flood.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's the theory, right?

Speaker 1 The theory, the Great Flood, and then the Younger Dryas Seas Impact Theory destroyed the atmosphere where there was this like above the earth, which is like chaotic and they sought refuge underground.

Speaker 2 I lean more toward that the ice sheets melted from a solar event than an impact, but it certainly could be either.

Speaker 1 Well, it could be a combination of two.

Speaker 1 Because it's also, they think there was more than one.

Speaker 1 The impact event happened. They know this based on core samples, iridium,

Speaker 1 the nano diamonds that come from impacts.

Speaker 2 This is the Greenland impact.

Speaker 1 Yeah, not just Greenland, North America. They think it happened.
I think they found these, the evidence of this stuff, like 30% of the Earth's surface where they believe these things had hit.

Speaker 1 I think we got bombarded.

Speaker 2 Right. So that would be like flying through an asteroid field, like

Speaker 2 the Leonids or the Perseids and the Taurids. So the remnants of some giant object that is rubble, and then we just fly through it.
Which means we fly through it frequently.

Speaker 1 We fly through it twice a year. Twice a year.
But we don't always, you know, most of the the time we get lucky and it's not a really a hot one. But like what happened in Tunguska?

Speaker 2 Tunguska, right? That's that's Grandma. That's 1907.

Speaker 1 And in the same month that we passed through that comet field. That's right.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right, that's over Siberia. And that was an airburst, I believe, because there's no impact crater, but it flattened like millions of square miles of trees.

Speaker 1 And it's still fucked to this day. Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
There's images of that. If you want to look up that, there's

Speaker 2 actual like film of it. It's crazy.
It looks like a bomb went off.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're in a shooting gallery.

Speaker 1 Earth is flying through a shooting gallery. There's 900,000 near-Earth objects that are just hovering around out there.

Speaker 2 And NASA says we track most of them.

Speaker 2 Because in those fields with the proceeds towards, there are big objects. There are Earth killers in there.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, and Apophis is lurking. Apophis is the big one.
That's due to fly by in a few years. What's that one?

Speaker 2 That's a giant asteroid that's,

Speaker 2 I think it's due to fly by maybe 2030 something.

Speaker 1 How big is that one?

Speaker 2 I'll get it wrong. I mean, I'm going to say a million things wrong today.
I'll hear all about it.

Speaker 2 But it's a planet killer. Like,

Speaker 2 it's a civilization ender. And it's going to fly near.
Like, we're going to be able to see it during the day.

Speaker 1 375 meters across, about the size of a cruise liner. It will pass within 32,000 kilometers of Earth's surface surface on April 13, 2029.

Speaker 2 Now stop there. That's about, that's closer than the moon.
Whoa.

Speaker 2 I mean way closer than the moon.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So that's what, about 70,000 miles where the moon is

Speaker 2 250 to 300.

Speaker 2 So we're going to see that.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 You don't want to see that in this. You don't want to look up and see that.

Speaker 1 Well, just knowing that ones far larger have passed through.

Speaker 1 And then we know for sure a bunch of hit.

Speaker 1 For sure. You know, Chichen Itza, that one.

Speaker 2 All right, Chick Shiloh, but that was that was pseudoscience until the father son went down there and found it.

Speaker 2 And that wasn't that, I think that was when I was growing up, the dinosaurs died.

Speaker 2 That was a conspiracy theory, the asteroid. Right.
And they f and the guy, they found it, I think, around 1980.

Speaker 1 The Yucatan impact. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that's under the ocean.

Speaker 1 And the iridium matches it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All that is really spectacular stuff.

Speaker 1 It's just like when you look at the moon and you see the craters all over it and you realize, okay, this is what happens when you don't have an atmosphere and you also don't have water and you can see everything that hits.

Speaker 1 Like the whole thing. The whole thing.
Well, why?

Speaker 2 Covered. But why are there so many fewer impacts on the other side?

Speaker 1 Are there? Fewer. Really?

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I have a,

Speaker 2 it became a saying on the show. I even have a t-shirt.
The moon is weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, Gino is my, my weird topic guy. It's like, what should we talk about? He's like, do hollow moon.
So I went into that story thinking, this is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Right.

Speaker 2 The moon is hollow. And I'm doing the research about halfway through.
I'm like, hmm, the moon is weird.

Speaker 2 And then by the end of my research, I was convinced that clearly the moon is a hollow spaceship that was brought here from another part of the galaxy.

Speaker 2 And it's here, and the lizard people are absorbing our solar energy. That's the only explanation for it.

Speaker 2 Probably not true, but man,

Speaker 2 the moon is very weird.

Speaker 1 Well, it's also weird that the alignment and the size and the distance of the moon makes the eclipse perfect. Like, what are the odds of that?

Speaker 1 What are the odds that it is the exact distance from the sun so that when the moon and the sun align, it's exact?

Speaker 2 Right, it's like a 400-to-1 race. It's exact.

Speaker 1 It's nuts.

Speaker 2 But you could debunk that by saying the moon is getting further and further away.

Speaker 1 Right, but why is it perfect?

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Speaker 2 Not found a planet in this solar system or anywhere else that has a giant moon right next to it.

Speaker 1 A quarter the size of the Earth.

Speaker 2 We haven't found it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 We're the only one with it.

Speaker 2 And there are ancient legends that talk about a moonless sky and when the moon arrived and when it arrived it it

Speaker 2 caused a great flood.

Speaker 1 What are the ancient stories of a moonless sky? Where are they from?

Speaker 2 Ancient Indian texts will have it, but also native legends will have it about the moon.

Speaker 2 About a moonless sky, and then the moon arrives.

Speaker 1 When do they think the moon arrived?

Speaker 2 It's hard to tell. You know, I always go to Younger Drys, Younger Drys, but who really knows?

Speaker 2 The Earth was apparently just covered in this haze, just very wet, very hazy, maybe like Venus or something like that. Then the moon arrives and all that water from the atmosphere drops down to Earth.

Speaker 2 The tidal forces are crazy. There's a huge flood and everything just settles and then the moon is here

Speaker 2 and the moon is now like the guardian of the planet, which it really is.

Speaker 2 We couldn't really survive without it.

Speaker 1 Because it stabilizes our atmosphere, right?

Speaker 2 Stabilizes us and stabilizes our orbit. Our orbit and our spin and our axis.

Speaker 2 When there's a major earthquake, the Earth changes speed. The spin changes, like our spin, it changes like measurably if there's a big earthquake.

Speaker 2 And if there's a lot of those, that could could throw you off the axis, but the moon steps in like a bouncer and it settles things back down.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 1 So the idea would be that some sort of a

Speaker 1 superior civilization placed the moon there to ensure our survival?

Speaker 2 I don't think they care about us.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 2 No, I don't think so. How come? Again,

Speaker 2 we're in very speculative territory because nobody knows.

Speaker 2 But I would think it would just be for resources. Hey, this place is a lot of stable water.

Speaker 2 That's useful.

Speaker 1 Don't you think they would be fascinated with us as an emerging civilization?

Speaker 1 And like I always say, that if we found a planet that had cave people on it, like just starting to learn stone tools and stuff like that, we would for sure be interested in them.

Speaker 1 We'd be so fascinated. And we would probably try to accelerate their learning curve.

Speaker 2 You think we would?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Definitely.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, think of what a lot of these jerk-offs have done with like uncontacted tribes and stuff like that. We're always trying to intervene and do something with them.

Speaker 2 You know the dark forest theory? No. It's Lucian Shu who wrote the three-body problem and all those.

Speaker 2 Dark forest theory says that if you attain a certain level of technology, the best thing you can do is just be quiet because the universe is a dark forest and the first person to stick his head out dies because you don't want a competitor in your region.

Speaker 2 So as soon as a culture gets close to some technology that could make that they're on a path to threaten you, you got to take them out. You got to halt their technology.

Speaker 2 And three-body problems is kind of based on that. That's what they do in the books.

Speaker 2 And that seems to make a little more sense to me than sort of this altruistic, hey, let's help them, you know, the Star Trek approach. Let's make first contact and all of that.
You know, I

Speaker 2 like, you know, human nature is a tricky thing.

Speaker 2 We're very selfish.

Speaker 2 You know, you and I might want to see those people and help them along, but

Speaker 2 there's a lot of people that would not want a competitor in the neighborhood.

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1 But what if they don't even think of us as a competitor? What if they're so advanced? Like if they're millions of years advanced?

Speaker 1 Wouldn't they like this is the thing that Diana Pasolka and Gary Nolan and a lot of these people that study crashed retrievals,

Speaker 1 there's a term that they use

Speaker 1 that these are donations.

Speaker 1 Right. That these vehicles are donations and that the idea is we're supposed to look at this and formulate new ideas through reverse engineering.

Speaker 2 And, you know, there's circumstantial evidence that that's true.

Speaker 2 If you look at Bell Labs and all the crazy discoveries after Roswell, like we're using cathode ray tubes, and suddenly transistors are made, and silicon semiconductors, and wireless transmission, and Bell Labs is all these leaps forward.

Speaker 1 Fiber optics.

Speaker 2 Fiber optics, laser technology came out of Bell as well. And,

Speaker 2 you know, the retrieval experts say that fiber optics and lasers for sure is reverse engineered. And it kind of makes a lot of sense because it seemed to have come out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 Suddenly, Bell Labs has it. You know, but

Speaker 2 it's...

Speaker 2 My question is, where is the stuff? You know, we've got World War II. We go into Korea in 1950.
And at the time,

Speaker 2 Russia had the MiG-15 was basically on par with us. I think we had the F-86 at the time, and the MiG might have even been better.
So that would have been a great time for some advanced tech.

Speaker 2 But America did catch up and exceed the Soviets about 51-52, you know, during Korea, and then has been superior ever since.

Speaker 2 But you would think that after 47 with the Soviets there, let's get some of this anti-gravitic stuff going.

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe the problem is that you're working in this very compartmentalized environment, so you're not allowed to share with all these different scientists.

Speaker 1 So because of that, there's no collaboration, which is necessary for real innovation. You have to have experts from a bunch of different fields analyzing all the different aspects of it.

Speaker 1 This is what Lazar pointed to, the problems that they were having at S4 when they were trying to back engineer this stuff.

Speaker 1 He's like, you can't do science like this because everything is so top secret and so compartmentalized.

Speaker 1 The metallurgists were not allowed to talk to the propulsions people, and no one was allowed to talk to anybody else. And everybody was just like, what the fuck is going on?

Speaker 1 What are these things?

Speaker 1 They didn't even tell him, allegedly, you know, if the story's true. They didn't even tell him where this thing came from.

Speaker 1 They show it to him and there's a United States flag sticker on it. And he's like, oh, this is ours.
Oh, that makes sense. And then he's examining.
He's like, oh, no, it's not.

Speaker 1 Like, there's no seams in this thing. Like, what is this?

Speaker 1 What is the metal? Why is it? designed for something that's three feet tall. Like, there's no controls inside this thing.
Like, what is this reactor? How does this thing work?

Speaker 2 There's a chair. Yeah.
You know, there's a couple of chairs. It looks like there's a neural interface, maybe.

Speaker 2 You know, you hear a lot of the scientists, their frustration. Like, if I could just talk to these guys,

Speaker 2 you know, I'm picking up an EM field from this. The metallurgist would be helpful here to tell me what's going on.
You know, I keep coming across spinning mercury all the time.

Speaker 1 Spinning mercury.

Speaker 2 The spinning mercury engine has been part of the lore since ancient India has the Vimanas, you know, those craft. If you look at the ancient texts, it may have been in the Mahabharata,

Speaker 2 but they allude to this liquid metal. And then you fast forward to like the Nazis building the bell, the D-Glock.

Speaker 2 That was a mercury engine. And then we fast forward a little further.
Mark McCandlish and the AR-V vehicle, the, I forget, the flux liner.

Speaker 2 That's spinning mercury engine.

Speaker 2 Spinning mercury keeps keeps popping up. And spinning mercury would cause some type of field.

Speaker 2 What that would be, I'm not a scientist or physicist, I'm not sure, but it would certainly throw off a bunch of ions that could maybe be harnessed or used for something.

Speaker 1 Well, it's like we're trying to explain things to us based on our current understanding of technology. Like, glass was invented a long time ago, but imagine showing up with

Speaker 1 a brand new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra with gorilla glass, you know, in that thin frame and looking at that. They'll go, what the fuck is this?

Speaker 2 There'd be statues of you for a thousand years.

Speaker 1 Well, you know what glass is and you know what metal is, right? Well, this is glass and metal. You're like, what? What? No, what the fuck is this?

Speaker 2 We took sand and made it real hot and it made it clear. Huh?

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 You can drop it on the concrete and it doesn't break. What?

Speaker 1 Yeah. So just our current understanding of technology based on the origins of that technology, just metal and glass.

Speaker 1 You know, you show someone metal and and glass is thousands of years old, show them what we have now with metal and glass, they'd be blown away.

Speaker 1 And you just keep going, keep going, go a thousand years from now. Like, what does it all look like? It's like

Speaker 1 probably some sort of a gravity propulsion system, probably 3D printed, so there are no seams. Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And that's the frustration about disclosure is how far could we be by now? Right.
You know, had there been disclosure in 47 or whatever.

Speaker 1 It's even more of a psyop if it's all bullshit. Like, it's a psyop if it's actually, if it actually is, like, wow, the government is actually really good at one thing.

Speaker 1 They're good at keeping secrets about UFOs. That's right.

Speaker 1 But if they're not, if it's all bullshit, like, boy, how weird that we've been, like, focusing on this nonsense, like, as a culture, it got in the front page of the New York Times in 2017.

Speaker 1 But meanwhile, it's all nonsense. Right.
That's almost less likely.

Speaker 2 Well, if you look at what Dodie did in the 70s and 80s with Paul Benowitz, when Benowitz discovered this advanced technology on Kirtland Air Force Base,

Speaker 2 he called the base and said, Hey, I think there's UFOs. So they send Doty out.
He was where he was Air Force Intelligence OSI. They send him out to Benowitz, and

Speaker 2 he's like, Paul, I think it might be UFOs. It is aliens.

Speaker 2 And Paul, you know, Paul gets a little bit wacky and he starts intercepting signals from outer space and they're sending him messages, but it turned out it's really the NSA rented a house across the street.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 Paul is committed at some point. And then Doty, over the years, changes the story and says, no, a lot of it is actually true.

Speaker 2 But Doty has also, he said as recently as 2019, Hal Putoff tried to recruit him for a disinformation campaign with ATEP.

Speaker 1 Really? So Hal Putoff has been a part of disinformation campaigns?

Speaker 2 Allegedly. Allegedly forever.

Speaker 1 And what have they been doing with these disinformation campaigns? What have they been trying to muddle?

Speaker 2 Just to keep guys like you and me fascinated and trying to figure stuff out while they can just operate their advanced technology in peace. Like, let them think it's aliens and UFOs.
That's fine.

Speaker 1 What a dirty thing to do, though.

Speaker 2 Filthy. In the 50s, they were very public about anti-gravity.
It was in the papers, you know, the G-Engine. They were talking about it.
And then suddenly, whoosh, quiet.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Jesse Michaels talks about that all the time, that Townsend Brown.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And Ning Li, remember her story, the physicist who disappeared.

Speaker 1 Right. And then she died in a car accident after she came back from China.
Oops. Whoopsies.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 2 So that was AC Gravity, if you guys want to look that up.

Speaker 2 She used to give talks and all of that. She was funded by DOD for $400,000.
So we know that for sure. And then she just goes dark.
She goes dark for 11 years. Shows up, I think, in 2013.
She's back.

Speaker 2 2014, she gets hits by a car.

Speaker 1 Why is it so fun?

Speaker 2 I don't know. Mark McLean McClan just found all that stuff and ended up killing himself.

Speaker 1 All this stuff is so fun, which is why the Y files are so good. Because it's like, I always get the same feeling when I watch your show.
It's like, oh, what is the answer? What is real?

Speaker 1 What is it? But it's, what is it about us that's so intrigued by these mysteries? I mean, there's so much that we know that is real. Just

Speaker 1 the nature of the cosmos itself, of black holes and solar nurseries and all the wild shit that's absolutely real. But there's these things that are like, yeah, but what is that?

Speaker 2 I don't think enough people are interested in it, to be honest. I think that's part of the problem.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't you think it's because for the most part it's dismissed and if you engage in it, it's like if you're a normal person, not like you or I, but if you're a person that has like a job in an accounting firm, you're like a very respected, legitimate person, especially like pre-2017, pre-the New York Times article, And you want to start talking about like gravity propulsion systems that the government's been hiding and that there's back engineering programs.

Speaker 1 They've got crashed UFOs, and there's one of them. It's only like a couple hundred feet wide, but you go inside of it.
It's the size of a football field. Right, like the TARDIS.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or the one in Korea that's so big they had to build a building around it because they couldn't move it. Right.
I want to know what that is. Same.

Speaker 2 Same. I don't.
I wish more people were interested in it.

Speaker 1 I would almost be willing to run for president just to get access.

Speaker 1 If I ran for president, the company would be in shambles, but everybody would know everything about UFOs.

Speaker 2 Dude, you have no shot.

Speaker 1 Oh, I have no shot. That would kill me for sure.

Speaker 2 I can't believe the things you say are news.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, it's because news is like really dead. Yes, that's news.

Speaker 2 They're angry about independent media.

Speaker 1 Well, they are, but it's also the news is not

Speaker 1 so their business is just clicks. And what better way to get clicks than I said something crazy?

Speaker 1 So then, you know, and then it also kind of supports the idea that we need to be gatekeeped and someone needs to, you know, be able to stop us from spreading misinformation or my favorite term, malinformation.

Speaker 1 This is all that came up during COVID. That we need to stop the spread of misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation.

Speaker 1 Malinformation is real information that is true and accurate, but would be negative in its impact to society.

Speaker 2 Which is bonkers. Crazy.
We can't live in that society.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 they're making us infants, right?

Speaker 1 They're saying we can handle this, but the vast majority of you, even though we're all supposed to be equal and the government's supposed to be working for you and serving the people, no, we will have this information and we will know what we're doing and you won't be able to have access to it because you're not ready for it because you're too stupid.

Speaker 2 They lost. They lost already.
They just don't know it yet, but they lost.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they lost a long time ago.

Speaker 2 I'm going to put out an episode about how dragons are real. And when I get to the debunk, I'm going to say, nothing.
They're real. Peace out.

Speaker 1 Triangular spacecraft. What is this?

Speaker 1 Stumbling down a lower rabbit hole and found a patent that exists or did exist. It was abandoned in 2006.
This could be the. I forget the

Speaker 2 SR, was it 7 or B?

Speaker 1 There's a T3B.

Speaker 1 This is like the ones that they always see, like the Phoenix lights and that one.

Speaker 1 So it says a spacecraft having a triangular hull with vertical electrostatic line charges on each corner that produce a horizontal electric field parallel to the sides of the hull.

Speaker 1 This field interacting with a plane wave emitted by antennas on the side of the hull generates a force per volume combining both lift and propulsion.

Speaker 1 What? It gives all the math, but like I don't know why I do this math. And if someone

Speaker 1 someone can look at it and be like, that's not real. Get Weinstein to like do that math.
It hasn't been made, obviously. Or we know of.
It has.

Speaker 2 And I'm surprised it's not classified.

Speaker 1 There's other, according to this article, though, that's where I found it. There's what it was about the T-3B thing.

Speaker 2 Right. So that's a real experimental aircraft.

Speaker 1 Does America have a reverse-engineered UFO? Whoa.

Speaker 1 This goes back to 1991 with the Desert Storm. There's reports of what they call it a TR-3A, which looks a lot like what the stealth bomber kind of is.
Yeah, but also. Whoa.
Yep. No concerns.
TR-3B

Speaker 1 is said to be like nothing we've seen before.

Speaker 1 This was what I got to from Liquid Mercury. I was trying to find stuff about it, and there's theories that people say that, like, this is probably what they're running off of.

Speaker 1 It's supposedly powered by a reverse-engineered anti-gravity drive that was recovered from a crashed airline spacecraft.

Speaker 1 The TR-3B is where reports of UAP performing seemingly impossible aerial maneuvers intersect with stories about very real aircraft.

Speaker 2 Read the next paragraph.

Speaker 1 There are lots of claims over the internet about TR-3B's anti-gravity drive, most of which include using nuclear power to rotate highly pressurized mercury to produce plasma and in turn a gravitational field.

Speaker 1 Whoa.

Speaker 2 Something about the mercury.

Speaker 1 Have you ever heard Eric Weinstein talk about this?

Speaker 1 There's a college in upstate New York that has an incredibly overqualified physics department, and they're attached to a hedge fund that does Bernie Madoff-type numbers.

Speaker 1 And he thinks the whole thing is a cover for some sort of advanced physics that they have been keeping a lockdown on.

Speaker 2 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And it would make total sense. I mean, SRI would be another good example of that, right?

Speaker 2 Where Howell was in the 70s with Project Stargate and all of that.

Speaker 1 The idea that the government can't keep secrets, like, what about Epstein?

Speaker 1 Come on. People ask me all the time.
That's been in front of everybody's face, and they've kept the list a secret.

Speaker 2 We're never going to see the list. Stop asking me.
You're not going to see the list. Why not? Because everybody, all your heroes are on it, and they're on it a lot.
It's never coming out.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And, you know,

Speaker 1 I have a friend that thinks like a lot of the world events that you're seeing, one of the reasons why people support it is because of the VEPS team. Because of the list.

Speaker 1 Because people are compromised. Because no one can talk about things.
You know, which is like really wild. So the government can keep some secrets.
Manhattan Project.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they did a great job with that. And that was one that, you know, I I mean, it was a race between us and the other foreign powers.
They were all trying to come up with a nuclear bomb first.

Speaker 1 We did it first.

Speaker 1 The idea that there's no way that we could have some sort of advanced propulsion system and that modern physicists would be aware of the state of the art and they would tell you, yeah, no, this is not possible.

Speaker 1 I don't think that's correct.

Speaker 1 I think you could probably, if you were working on something and you had a very specific hierarchy and you were really good at compartmentalization and you were recruiting these people at a very early stage in their career, people with promise, these geniuses, giving them a very high salary, a prestigious position, but then everything's locked down.

Speaker 1 Cell phones, email, they're under constant surveillance. And if somebody steps out of line, like the lady in Maryland, the Chinese lady.
Yep.

Speaker 1 A lot of them. Yeah.
A lot of them go that way. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm very, I'm skeptical about a a lot of the whistleblowers, especially the ones that come out of Air Force intelligence and all of that.

Speaker 1 But I do. Even when I'm talking to them, I'm like, hmm.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, you know, I kind of have that needle of skepticism, and it starts with, do you have a background in intelligence? Yes. Military intelligence.
Air Force intelligence.

Speaker 2 Are you still on the payroll? Did you get your information cleared from the Pentagon? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you have a book? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it all goes,

Speaker 2 did you release some photos that were fake? And I am all over here. Then you go, Bob Lazard.
He has none of that stuff. Did the government target you? Did they try to discredit you?

Speaker 2 Have you been ostracized? When Lazar came out, I think it was to George Knapp.

Speaker 2 He didn't say his name.

Speaker 2 He didn't have any books. The first book, I think, was with him and Jeremy in 2019.
So Lazar, to me, is the most credible of the whistleblowers.

Speaker 2 But Jeremy and George just had a whistleblower a couple of weeks ago. He's pretty credible.
He's a young guy. He's clearly nervous, and he has some very interesting information about

Speaker 2 what is it Immaculate Constant.

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Speaker 1 Which guy is this?

Speaker 2 I don't remember his name. It's very new.

Speaker 1 Is that the bald guy? No.

Speaker 2 No. No, the bald guy, I think, is Air Force Intelligence, the one payroll.
This is a kid whose career is ruined, and he's maybe in his 20s. And you can see he's clearly nervous.

Speaker 1 And what is his claim?

Speaker 2 His claim is that he

Speaker 2 was going through some files. You know, he's got top secret clearance, and he found the Immaculate Constellation project, basically a PowerPoint presentation.

Speaker 2 And And his job was just to sort these files.

Speaker 2 And he's looking through it and suddenly it's like, whoa, this is about recovery and alien craft. And he did the right thing and went to his superiors and said, you know, there's a leakage.

Speaker 2 I saw information I maybe wasn't supposed to. I'm just letting you know.
And his superiors were like, eh, forget about it. And he's like, and that was it.
It's just no reprimand, no, nothing.

Speaker 2 I just went back to work. But he was too fascinated by the document.
So he kept pursuing it and pursuing it. And now he talks about it.

Speaker 2 I don't know his name, but if you track down, you know, Jeremy and George, you'll find it easily.

Speaker 1 That's the kid. Yeah.
So here's a way that I would kind of

Speaker 1 try to debunk that.

Speaker 1 If I was being logical. If I was the government and I

Speaker 1 did have some very sophisticated propulsion system that's beyond the understanding of what we think to be current state-of-the-art physics, like far beyond that.

Speaker 1 I think I might release a bunch of horse shit about UFOs. A hundred percent.
Yeah, I might put a bunch of that stuff out there to say, oh, it can't be ours. It's not ours.

Speaker 1 It's not of this world.

Speaker 2 To muddy the waters.

Speaker 1 Yeah, not just that, but attach

Speaker 1 like really kooky stuff to stuff that's real so that you think the real stuff is kooky.

Speaker 2 Right, like like the drone scared. Remember that?

Speaker 2 That was very manufactured, and the press was all over it. We don't know where the drones are.
They're all flying over the military bases, all that stuff.

Speaker 1 What do you think that was? I know what it was.

Speaker 2 I've seen the NOTAM reports. Do you know what a NOTAM is? No.
That's a notice to airmen. So pilots, private pilots, get warning of no-fly zones.
And

Speaker 2 usually you'll see a lot of swaths carved out if like Air Force One's flying through.

Speaker 2 But for some reason, this NOTAM reports have all these little circles all around that you can't fly through where the drones were. And I've seen that.
And when did the drones...

Speaker 2 they suddenly stopped when? Right. Right before Inauguration Day.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And

Speaker 2 no one talks about the drones anymore.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's gone. Gone.
I mean, it was mainstream news all over the place.

Speaker 2 And they had people nervous.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 They had them nervous. And I think that was the point.

Speaker 1 So you think they did it as a psyop just to see how people would react? I do.

Speaker 2 And remember, I know nothing. Right.
But that is my opinion: it was a psyop. And that most of this is.

Speaker 1 If there are visitors and there are from somewhere else, wouldn't the best way to prepare us is to start flying a bunch of like really wacky shit that we have in the air and not explain it?

Speaker 2 That would be a good way to prepare us.

Speaker 1 Get us comfortable with seeing things hovering over New Jersey that

Speaker 1 defy what our understanding of drone capabilities are in terms of the time that they can stay in the air. Some of them were in the air like for five hours.

Speaker 2 But if that's what was the reason to get us ready, it backfired because because it freaked people out people were very nervous about it like so our military installations are vulnerable

Speaker 2 people were very frightened that was the other thing like Wright-Patterson Air Force Base had some drones and then they had to shut the base down and Wright-Patterson is is like ground zero for all of it project blue book that

Speaker 2 Roswell went there yeah the second crash what's the second crash the second crash was some miles north and west of there and you'll hear doty talk about it and that's where other pilots were recovered.

Speaker 2 I think a total of five or six. The pilots.

Speaker 1 The EBEs.

Speaker 2 The EBEs.

Speaker 2 And according to

Speaker 2 Dotie and others, one of the EBEs

Speaker 2 stayed with the government, I think, in Los Alamos for five years, till 1952. That was the EBA 1 or whatever.

Speaker 2 He liked strawberry ice cream.

Speaker 1 Who doesn't?

Speaker 2 Who doesn't, right?

Speaker 2 That'd be the first thing I do if I went to Planet Serpos.

Speaker 1 What's the ice cream like here?

Speaker 1 Well, just the idea that they would eat like we eat seems crazy. Right.
And then also they could breathe our air. Like, what are the odds of that?

Speaker 2 Well, you know, the theories are, you know, we never see alien shit or whatever, but there's always a rebuttal.

Speaker 2 Is that, you know, they have a metabolism that absorbs nutrients and their waste is recycled and all of that stuff. Photosynthesis or something.

Speaker 1 Something like that.

Speaker 1 Well, they do seem genderless.

Speaker 1 Genderless, giant heads.

Speaker 1 I always say that the archetype, like the grays, like close encounter grays, if you go back to like Neander dolls and then you go back to like Australia Pythagoras, covered in hair, heavily muscled, and then you go to like the average dude who plays Call of Duty.

Speaker 1 You know, like, what do we do? We play Call of Duty. It's fine.
It's a great game. But you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 It's like people become like these frail, muscle-less things, and then your head keeps getting bigger and bigger as the mind evolves.

Speaker 1 And then human capabilities increase in in terms of like our ability to communicate telepathically all these different no need for mouth noises anymore so your mouth shrivels up to this little slit and why are the eyes

Speaker 1 so big and black because you're evolved underground oh i thought it was like sunglasses built in well it could be the same like that's what i thought i'm like well that looks like sunglasses right you're going to protect your eyeballs if like your atmosphere is far brighter and you know you have to be able to see things i think that was there was one retrieval story that that had that Like, one of the black eyes was half open that they thought it might have been something.

Speaker 1 Like a little shield?

Speaker 2 Like a shield. Like, it's a legit recovery story.
I can't remember it offhand.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 1 Like, camels have a weird shield over their eyes for sandstorms. Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like they have like an eyelid, a clear eyelid that covers over their eyes that they can go through sandstorms and not get blinded.

Speaker 2 You know, it's an interesting point that you brought up about Neanderthals is a lot of people don't know that just about 50,000 years ago, Neanderthals had basically an empire

Speaker 1 over all of Europe.

Speaker 1 Hundreds of thousands of years ago.

Speaker 2 Hundreds of thousands of years. And then suddenly, boom, they're defeated by frail, weak, hairless humans out of caves.
And it's attributed to we figured out a bow and arrow.

Speaker 2 You know, we could harass from a distance projectile weapons. And that's how we defeated this vast empire of Neanderthals who were not stupid.
You know, who were...

Speaker 1 Bigger brains than ours.

Speaker 2 Bigger brains than ours. They had art, culture, music.
They trained in warfare. They had organized warfare.

Speaker 2 I mean, can you imagine staring down the barrel of a division of organized Neanderthals coming at you? Right.

Speaker 1 Like essentially super athletes. Yes.
With chimpanzee-like strength.

Speaker 2 Right. And speed.
Yeah. And intelligence.
And we came out of the caves and defeated them.

Speaker 1 Okay. And eyes so large that they think their eyes might have been, they might have been able to see nocturnally.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I love that episode you guys did on Neanderthals. You debunked it at the end, but the idea that they were like more ape-like than they were human, they look like monsters, dark skin, fangs.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that was a cool episode. Mostly debunked, but yeah.

Speaker 1 But I mean, there probably was

Speaker 1 some hunting of humans

Speaker 2 for sure.

Speaker 1 And when you're dealing with something that's a far superior physical specimen,

Speaker 1 much denser bones,

Speaker 1 much stronger than us.

Speaker 2 And when we know that we have some of their DNA in us, and it's, you know, when you hear, oh, we interbred with them, it's not precisely how it went down, most likely.

Speaker 2 It's most likely the women were carried away.

Speaker 2 That's how the interbreeding happened.

Speaker 1 Yikes. Uh-huh.
Yikes. Or horny men and some lonely Neanderthal lady.

Speaker 2 Some dudes like a big lady. There's no shame in it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, a big, thick one to make you some fucking warrior children.

Speaker 2 Just want to be cup.

Speaker 1 Someone's got dense bones.

Speaker 1 I'm looking for a lady with a dense head.

Speaker 2 Let's have a dense baby.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what do their fucking language sound like?

Speaker 1 What are them? It's like

Speaker 1 we used to think of them as being really stupid until they realized that their brain mass is actually larger than ours and they were capable of language and all these different things. Like, okay.

Speaker 2 Like, how did we beat them? I don't know. That is a puzzle.
You know, the answer is projectiles.

Speaker 1 Well, it kind of makes sense. I mean, if we were the only ones to figure out bows and arrows and adelatols and all that kind of stuff,

Speaker 1 it might be. Yeah.
Especially if we organized, you know.

Speaker 1 But you could still overwhelm.

Speaker 2 You know, you could overwhelm a few archers with just, we would just throw bodies at it.

Speaker 2 Now, warfare has been fought like that for humans forever.

Speaker 1 Maybe their language is too crude to allow for that kind of communication, like to strategize.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? Like maybe their language is like very crude, normal day-to-day stuff. I'm hungry.
I want to fuck. Like let's kill these people.

Speaker 1 It was not complicated enough to say, like, we got an issue here. Here's the issue.
We got to get around them from the back end.

Speaker 1 You know, and you guys got to distract them from the front, and this is what we'll do. You know?

Speaker 2 I mean, that's the only thing that makes sense. Yeah.
But it still doesn't make complete sense to me.

Speaker 1 Why were their brains bigger than ours? That's the weird one. Like we associate larger brains with more complex thinking.
So why would what we think of as the most brutish version of human beings?

Speaker 2 I don't know, but don't Neanderthal brains, even though they were larger, had fewer convolutions.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? Do we know that?

Speaker 2 That's part of my research, which, you know, most of it's bullshit, but that's what I read.

Speaker 2 You know, large brain, but not as powerful.

Speaker 1 Interesting. Well, so maybe the large brain was attributable to physical capability.

Speaker 2 Just the fact that you can produce music tells me oh so so much about your brain.

Speaker 1 And they produce music?

Speaker 2 They produce music. How do we know that?

Speaker 2 We found relics and artifacts of it. Of musical instruments? Instruments and cave writing and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 They used needles and thread to make clothing. Really? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah, very strange.

Speaker 1 that we beat them. That's a Neanderthal tool? Flute? Neanderthal flute? Some sort of flute.
Whoa, a bone flute

Speaker 2 made with the bone of your defeated enemy yeah some dude you ate

Speaker 1 made a flute out of his shin

Speaker 1 oh they figured out that death whistle back then too that's sort of musical oh the Aztec desert whistle that's not the same but

Speaker 1 that's that's a scary one yeah Brian Callan blew it on this show in 2019 and COVID started right afterwards that's the summon the demons yeah

Speaker 1 remember that yeah it was just January 2020. Oh, okay.
That was like

Speaker 1 weeks before. Weeks before the lockdown?

Speaker 2 COVID was already here.

Speaker 1 Even been closer. I think COVID was already here by then.

Speaker 2 It's like with the anti-gravity. Why can't we cooperate with the Chinese?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Nope.
Nope.

Speaker 2 Well, we kind of, we kind of, we know how to do that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Um, it's also fascinating to me how many different versions of human beings existed. You know,

Speaker 1 there's the Hobbit people on the island of Flores.

Speaker 2 Right. That's a fascinating

Speaker 2 Floreensis.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the three-foot-tall little furry creatures that they think get tools and

Speaker 1 war clothing and all that jazz.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and there's even the different branches, like Cro-Magnon is not really from our branch.

Speaker 2 Really? That's a different branch. Yeah, we branch from a different branch.
So that's...

Speaker 1 Dennis Ovin. Dennis Ovin.
Right. And then the what are the big head people that they just found recently? This is like super recent.

Speaker 1 Like there was an article that was made in December of 2024 about this other new branch of the human species that had much larger heads than ours.

Speaker 1 And they think it was like this really thick, muscular, like heavy human being.

Speaker 1 What is it called again? Julian. Julien.
Julien. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Bighead people.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So they disappeared around the same time as the Antols 50,000 years ago.

Speaker 1 Have you seen the images of what they, the reconstruction? reconstruction?

Speaker 1 Go to some of the drawings of what these people look like. They looked fucking insane.
Were they taller?

Speaker 1 I do not know.

Speaker 1 I don't know how tall they were, but they looked fucking cool as shit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 There was like a jacked one, wasn't it? Yeah, that's the one I want.

Speaker 1 That's one, but that's not the one we were looking at. We were looking at one that theorized that it was completely covered in hair.

Speaker 2 Interesting.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So this is a very recent discovery. So how many of, this is the thing.
I think something like 90% of the species that have existed, we don't have fossils for.

Speaker 2 But that, well, I mean, 99% of the species ever existed are gone.

Speaker 1 Right. But fossils are very difficult to happen because it has to happen in a mudslide.
Somehow the body has to be preserved, then it's mineralized.

Speaker 2 Right. I don't know how many dinosaur

Speaker 1 complete fossils we have.

Speaker 2 Like a T-rex. I don't even think we have a complete one yet, but

Speaker 2 one or two billion T-Rexes lived and died on the planet. We have a couple of skeletons.
Right.

Speaker 1 It's billions of times. Right, right.
Yeah. And it just makes you wonder when they're finding things like this in 2024,

Speaker 1 how many are yet to be discovered? I mean, how much of the ground's surface has really been excavated to a very high level?

Speaker 2 Right. Yeah.
Very little, and

Speaker 2 it's and it's very difficult to even dig there. I mean, what's happening in Turkey is a shame with Gobekli Tepe,

Speaker 2 you know, just paving over it and planting orchards on top of it.

Speaker 1 They've taken down the orchards. They've taken down the olive trees.
Yeah, the olive trees.

Speaker 1 The problem with that was that, and this is Jimmy Corsetti had talked about this long ago, that the issue with them doing this is the roots are going to destroy the artifacts below.

Speaker 1 And they're like, no, no, no, no, it won't. And then it turns out, actually, it is.
So they had to pull them. And so they pulled the olive trees.
But they planted them purposely over

Speaker 1 the area, which is like...

Speaker 2 I'm glad Corsetti's out there. I like him and I know him pretty well.
He's great.

Speaker 2 The Turkish government, I think, has banned him and is trying to get him in trouble here, trying to get him sanctioned.

Speaker 1 Sanctioned? How do you sanction the guy off YouTube?

Speaker 1 For what?

Speaker 2 Look,

Speaker 2 when CNN was going after you and they were like...

Speaker 2 trying to get Spotify to cancel you, creators like me who go against kind of mainstream were very nervous because like if youtube just pulled my show i'm kind of fucked right um so it's like if they could take down joe we're done you know but they you know spotify with a lot of respect hung fast yeah we've talked about that like if i wasn't on spotify and i was only on youtube at the time i might have been fucked

Speaker 1 because they were taking people down for actual real truthful information Yes. That was, in their eyes, malinformation that would cause vaccine hesitancy.

Speaker 2 Still no apologies. No.
But it was a risky time

Speaker 2 to be

Speaker 2 non-politically correct

Speaker 2 before it was safe to.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was a very dangerous time and weird because it's like instantly dangerous. Like it wasn't like that before, then all of a sudden anything you could say could get your career ruined.
Yep.

Speaker 1 And again, everybody turned out to be right. Everybody was right that masks don't work.
Everybody was right that the vaccine didn't stop the infection, didn't stop

Speaker 2 the transformation.

Speaker 1 It wasn't a vaccine.

Speaker 2 It has a bunch of of side effects the the pangolin is nonsense i mean we knew that all of this it was just intuitive

Speaker 1 um the lab leak theory was racist yeah it was racist

Speaker 2 oh my goodness the r-word

Speaker 1 they tried anything they tried anything they could to silence any opposition wow you were gonna say something do you mind you were gonna say you had a quicker question i think i forget we steamed over it but we were talking about like the weirdness of that time about how dangerous it was like you know it was real touch and go It was real weird.

Speaker 1 There was like a lot of forces that were trying to get me removed because I was talking to people that they were deeming quacks, one of them, which is Robert Malone, who has nine patents on the creation of mRNA vaccine technology.

Speaker 1 These are rock-solid credentials these people had.

Speaker 1 They weren't kooks like Jay Bhattacharya, all these people like Stanford, MIT, Harvard, all these, all the people from the Great Barrington Declaration.

Speaker 1 These are the legitimate researchers and scientists that didn't agree with the narrative, and they were getting them removed from Twitter.

Speaker 2 And they had awards

Speaker 2 through their careers, highly revered and respected, and then suddenly, no.

Speaker 1 It didn't matter because these people, unfortunately, had a conscience, and they were saying, well, this is not what I know.

Speaker 1 I am an actual expert, and I do not think that the information they're giving out is correct. So I'm going to speak my mind.

Speaker 1 And then there's also a concerted effort by Fauci

Speaker 1 and his group to go after these people people and to attack these people publicly.

Speaker 2 Yes. And

Speaker 2 when it was very early on, I forget even what paper, I had released an op-ed in some paper

Speaker 2 criticizing a lot of this and lockdowns. You know, like my dojo was closed down and was trying to fight with masks on.
So I was angry. And then within weeks of that, it suddenly became politicized.

Speaker 2 And I was like, now I'm fucked. And now it's a political issue.
How is it this a political issue? Right. But it was.
It was politicized. And I don't know why.

Speaker 2 I don't know why it was all shut down.

Speaker 1 I think it's all just money. I think the vaccine companies wanted to make as much money as possible.

Speaker 1 And then anything that contributed to vaccine hesitancy was not for the greater good of public health. It was because the more vaccine hesitancy, the less profit they would have.

Speaker 1 I think it's real simple.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I agree, but that's really gross.

Speaker 1 It is gross. But it's also gross that they would prescribe it for children because it was totally unnecessary.

Speaker 1 So the only reason why they would prescribe it for children or mandate it for children to get into schools is because they wanted to make as much money as possible.

Speaker 1 And they made an insane amount of money. So it did work.
It was effective. But boy, did it destroy a lot of credibility.

Speaker 2 It certainly did. And it definitely worked.

Speaker 2 Where my wife was working, it was a mandatory vaccine situation, but

Speaker 2 she was working remotely, so didn't really have to get it. But I can see that the narrative was starting to catch with her.
And I'm like, honey, hold fast.

Speaker 2 This is a story. You know, it was a left-wing company, and they're just following the narrative.
They don't just hold fast and don't get that shot.

Speaker 1 And she didn't. Yeah, luckily.
I know people that did. I know people that have real fucking problems right now.
Same. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like they got long COVID suddenly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it's weird that long COVID is something that mostly affects people that have gotten vaccinated, but they want to call it long COVID. They don't want to call it vaccine injury.
Nope.

Speaker 1 The whole thing is like very creepy because it just shows you if something is like very clear and obvious and it's a real disease and we know the origin of it now and we know that all this stuff has been done to obscure it.

Speaker 1 How many other elements of society, how many other stories that are in the news have also been distorted and twisted around in order to promote a very specific narrative?

Speaker 1 And how effective have they been at doing this? It's not like this is the only time they've ever done this.

Speaker 1 So COVID was kind of a window into disinformation and about how the government can use these ploys of manipulation and

Speaker 1 using these tactics of humiliation, humiliating these established scientists, ruining their careers, attacking their credentials. And

Speaker 1 what other things have they used these on? What other

Speaker 1 geopolitical aspirations have they masked in all this bullshit?

Speaker 1 The whole thing is just like it's very disconcerting to find out that the people that have been running the country are super comfortable with lying.

Speaker 2 Here's the good news is the irony of COVID is the forces that were forcing us to be locked down and stay home gave rise to independent creators and journalists and independent thinkers and folks like you.

Speaker 2 And because of their forcing the lockdowns, they destroyed their own industry.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And there's no going back. I mean, I haven't watched MSNBC or Fox News in years.
And you turn it on, it's like, oh, this is just, I hear the same stuff from the left and the right.

Speaker 2 I just hear the same stuff. I get my news from YouTube, from all different sources, and that's what I want.
And they destroyed their own industry.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it's interesting to see, like,

Speaker 1 what is it going to look like, you know, five, ten years from now? Because five, ten years ago, you'd never, ten years ago, you'd never would have imagined the CNN would lose all its credibility.

Speaker 2 No, that would, we watched, you know, Desert Storm on there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, everything. Always, when you wanted to get the news.
And it was always also, CNN was thought of being as this like like sort of non-partisan environment for the news.

Speaker 1 It just showed you what the news was. And then somewhere along the line, it became very editorialized, very opinion-based, and very, you know,

Speaker 1 these people telling you to do your own research. Do not do your own research.
Like, imagine saying don't read. Right.
Don't read. You're not smart enough, AJ.
Right. You think you can go read? Right.

Speaker 1 Do you want to absorb information? You're not smart enough to absorb information. Leave that to the experts.

Speaker 2 Don't listen to Rogan. He takes horse pills.

Speaker 2 Got that from his doctor.

Speaker 1 It's also calling it horse dewormer. It was so stupid because everybody knows

Speaker 1 it's used on humans.

Speaker 2 Oh, ivermectin's in my cabinet.

Speaker 1 But it's just a simple Google search would tell you that something's wrong.

Speaker 2 That's required medication for Foreign Service.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so it's one of those things where you wonder after something like that has been happening. Well, this seems like a playbook they're really comfortable with using.

Speaker 1 How many other things do they use this on? Like, what other aspects of society are just complete horseshit?

Speaker 2 When did it really

Speaker 2 start?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 you know, probably...

Speaker 1 Probably during the 40s. Maybe even before, because if you read War is a Racket by Smedley Butler, that was 33.

Speaker 2 General Butler, yeah, the business plot, General.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he was a very, very honest guy. Yeah.
Yeah, if you guys don't know the business plots, it's worth looking into.

Speaker 2 They tried to recruit him to overthrow the government. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because he had all the troops at his disposal.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was wild. They were going to have a coup.

Speaker 2 They were going to have it.

Speaker 1 In the United States.

Speaker 2 And nobody has answered for that. That's the J.P.
Morgan's and that whole set.

Speaker 1 So this kind of thinking has been going on forever.

Speaker 1 And then there's also kind of gatekeeping of information, like hiding the truth from people in order to preserve narratives, in order to preserve power and authority.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 let's go back to Butler for a quick second. You've got Tesla, who gets funded by J.P.

Speaker 2 Morgan to create wireless technology, but Tesla gets a little ambitious and says, I'm going to do wireless communication, but I'm going to take your $150,000.

Speaker 2 I'm going to do wireless energy, and we'll do free energy around the world. And Morgan's like, how do you put a meter on that? Tesla's like, what do you mean? This propel mankind forward.

Speaker 2 Morgan pulls his funding, tells everyone in the investment class, this guy's a kook, and if you invest with him, you don't do business with me. A few years later, Wardencliffe Tower gets torn down.

Speaker 2 Tesla dies in poverty.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And where are those 20 boxes?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And why was the government so quick to respond to that crime scene?

Speaker 1 Yeah, they showed up at that guy's house quick. They gathered up all that information.
I wonder what they got from that.

Speaker 2 Uncle John Trump there was in charge of that.

Speaker 1 Right. What did they get in those boxes? Donald Trump's uncle reviewed Tesla's death ray secrets and found mysterious royal letters.

Speaker 2 I think they look like a Trump, doesn't he? He kind of does.

Speaker 1 How's what Trump would look like if he didn't do the comb over?

Speaker 2 Wasn't he working at a Wright-Patterson as well?

Speaker 1 Was he?

Speaker 2 For this?

Speaker 1 Dun Dun-tun-tun.

Speaker 1 Wright-Patterson is a weird place. Like, they think that that's where one of them is.
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know the Nixon story with Jackie Gleason?

Speaker 2 I know that Gleason was into UFOs. Tell the story.

Speaker 1 The story is Gleason got into UFOs because him and Nixon were drinking one day, and Nixon was like, oh, is he some shit?

Speaker 2 I wish I was drinking with that.

Speaker 1 Can you imagine that? And then he takes him, he flies him out to wherever the base is and shows him a crashed UFO and these bodies that they have in freezers.

Speaker 2 And it was Ray Patterson?

Speaker 1 I do not know. I do not know.
I don't know if Jackie Gleason ever said the story came from Gleason's wife, and it was an article in some sort of a magazine.

Speaker 1 But then there's the house that Gleason built in upstate New York that looked like a UFO. Like Gleason built a home.
Yeah, that was like like a disc.

Speaker 2 I'm going to look into this. It's such a good story.
I wonder where they went.

Speaker 1 Reportedly would have been in Holmstead Air Force Base. I it might be in Florida.
In 1973. Because I think that's where they were

Speaker 1 when they were playing golf and

Speaker 1 embalmed. Was reportedly shown embalmed bodies of four alien beings.
Dun, dun, dun.

Speaker 2 So Nixon exposes the UFOs to a civilian, and then it does not go well for Richard Nixon after that.

Speaker 1 Well, I think what went badly for Richard Nixon was that Richard Nixon was inquiring as to who killed JFK, and he said he thought he knew, and he was kind of talking about it publicly.

Speaker 1 And they're like, okay. Yep.
And they had already, you know, brought in Gerald Ford, kicked out Spiro Agnew. They got rid of him.
Gerald Ford, who was also in the Warren Commission report.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 And then all of a sudden, Nixon and Watergate happens.

Speaker 2 Nixon, the most popular president of all time.

Speaker 1 Of all time. And it turns out that Bob Woodward was actually an intelligence agent, and this is his first project ever.

Speaker 2 Operation Mockingbird.

Speaker 1 And then the people that were involved in the break-in, all FBI.

Speaker 2 G. Gordon Liddy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the whole thing is a coup.

Speaker 2 All was a coup.

Speaker 1 All was a sin. And we're all parroting, you know, Nixon was a crook.
That guy was a crook. He was this or that.
Like, they did a great job. The psyop was wonderful.

Speaker 2 I'm a Patsy. Yeah.
They say it over and over.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's all really, really interesting stuff. But it's just,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 what it boils down to with stuff like your show, like, how much of it is,

Speaker 1 how much is real? You know, when you have these mysteries, one of the amazing things about mysteries is you're you're never going to run out of topics.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 There's so many of these things.

Speaker 2 And as long as there's a U.S. government, I'm good.
As long as the CIA exists.

Speaker 1 They're always going to be hiding something. But the fun ones are always the alien ones.
That's the most fun ones. The alien ones, the ancient civilization ones.

Speaker 1 Like, what do you think when you go over the Bob Lazar story? Like,

Speaker 1 what do you, how much of you think, how much of you cries bullshit? How much of you's like, hmm?

Speaker 2 I'm more on the hmm side. I think he's the most credible whistleblower because he

Speaker 1 didn't profit from it.

Speaker 2 Didn't profit. And they, I mean, they prosecuted him for run for running a prostitution ring.

Speaker 1 You know, which maybe he was, which I think he was.

Speaker 2 He played down to pandering, but he.

Speaker 1 They also raided him during the Jeremy Corbel documentary. While they're filming the documentary, the FBI raided his facility

Speaker 1 and they said they were looking for something.

Speaker 1 And supposedly, he has a version or a sample of stable element 115. What?

Speaker 1 That's supposedly. Yeah, and that's supposedly what they were looking for.
Of course. Supposedly he had gotten that from the lab

Speaker 1 when he was at S4 and that he had managed to smuggle out a stable chunk of this Element 115.

Speaker 1 And there was a video that George Knapp had from back in the 80s where Lazar was demonstrating how this stuff bends light and what it does. It has weird effects.

Speaker 2 How soon after that raid was 115 is now called Moscovium. How soon after that raid was 115 synthesized? I think it was synthesized in Russia.

Speaker 1 It was synthesized by a particle collider. And so

Speaker 1 when they got it, it is a very temporary, quickly dissolving form, but they proved its existence.

Speaker 1 And supposedly, what Lazar is saying, wherever these beings are from, they obviously have a completely different environment, and they have a stable version of this

Speaker 1 element. Yep.
And this element is crucial to this gravity propulsion system.

Speaker 1 It's a part of this reactor. It gets bombarded with radiation, produces this gravity field, allows you to just slingshot through the universe.

Speaker 2 I don't know. Are they working to stabilize it?

Speaker 2 You know, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, man.

Speaker 1 Why would they raid Bob Lazar?

Speaker 2 That's that spectrum of believability again. Exactly.
Here's a guy who's being attacked and tormented.

Speaker 1 In the middle of filming a documentary.

Speaker 2 I mean, I just had my first IRS audit. I don't know how you're doing.

Speaker 1 Oh, what'd you do? I didn't do anything.

Speaker 2 I don't work in weed anymore.

Speaker 1 What do you think they were auditing you for?

Speaker 1 When you go over all your episodes.

Speaker 2 I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

Speaker 1 What do you think? Definitely coincidence. What do you think are the most problematic?

Speaker 2 Most problematic for me are probably

Speaker 2 the CIA ones. The one I did that ended with the Agent Orange kind of expose was kind of a dangerous one.
It was the dark history of DARPA and all the bad stuff that DARPA's done since its founding.

Speaker 2 It's done some horrible, horrible, horrible stuff. And that was an episode I was afraid to release.
There's been a couple of those.

Speaker 2 MK Ultra is kind of afraid to release, because I name names. A scary one was

Speaker 2 how Lyme Disease Might Have Been a Lab League.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a weird one.

Speaker 1 Bobby Kennedy fully believes that.

Speaker 2 It was Eric Traub was like the chief Nazi biowarfare specialist that was brought here,

Speaker 2 Operation Paperclip.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we do know that there have been some studies done where they were trying to devise diseases that they could aerial spray, whether it's through bugs or something, onto a population, overwhelm their medical system so they'd be easier to defeat.

Speaker 1 That's documented. Yeah, the entire enemy, super weak.
Everybody's weak over there. And then

Speaker 2 also documented is

Speaker 2 some ticks got out.

Speaker 2 Dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun.
Some ticks got out.

Speaker 2 So it's, you know, when you look at Lyme, Connecticut as ground zero and it just spreads from there and there was no Lyme disease before, that's a scary one to release.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But whenever I get into Operation Paperclip, I always hammer home. These are Nazis.

Speaker 2 You know, Werner von Braun is not a hero. He's a hero, but he's not a hero.
You know, a lot of these guys, these are all evil dudes.

Speaker 2 And most of the Operation Paperclip was just bringing over intelligence assets. They don't like talking about that.
It's the 1,200 scientists that we learn about.

Speaker 2 It's not the 6,000 intelligence agents that just lived here until the 70s and 80s. Right.

Speaker 1 All with their fucking dueling scars on their faces. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 Scary-looking dudes, like right out of Indiana Jones.

Speaker 2 Right. SS on the shoulder.

Speaker 1 And that's what was a part of NASA. That was running NASA.
Like Werner von Braun was an actual Nazi, and he was the head of NASA.

Speaker 2 And SS, Nazi. So the the V-1 rocket program killed 3,000 people in London, but killed 30,000 Jewish slaves building the rocket.
You know, 10 times more people died building the thing.

Speaker 2 And if you didn't work hard enough in the rocket factory, they would just hang you from the rafters. But von Braun said he didn't know anything about it.
And all of his team said,

Speaker 2 we didn't know anything about it. Okay.
Well, that's convenient. Well, every time I bring up someone who's from there, I just remind everybody, these are Nazis, these are liars, these are bad dudes.

Speaker 2 That doesn't mean, you know, they're not, they didn't do amazing things for America because you could do both.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what's weird.

Speaker 2 You know, the V-1 rocket eventually becomes Saturn V, which takes us to the moon, allegedly.

Speaker 1 Allegedly. Allegedly.
Yeah, allegedly. That's my favorite one.
Same. Did you ever see the episode I did with Bart Sobrell?

Speaker 2 Yes, and I talked to Bart from time to time.

Speaker 1 Boy, he's all in.

Speaker 2 All in.

Speaker 1 For decades.

Speaker 2 Eventually, I'm going to do conversation podcasts, and he'll be one of the first guys I have on.

Speaker 1 I had dinner with Bart Sobrell in like the year 2000,

Speaker 1 2003 or something like that. I had dinner with him in Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 I had seen a funny thing happen on the way to the moon.

Speaker 1 What year was that?

Speaker 2 Great documentary.

Speaker 1 What year was a funny thing happened on the way to the moon released?

Speaker 1 So it was like shortly thereafter. Somehow, I do not even remember how I got connected with him, but we had dinner in Los Angeles at this Italian restaurant.
I sat down with him. 2001.
2001.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so it was probably around 2003 that

Speaker 1 Bart and I had dinner. And then, you know, 22 years later, I had him on the podcast.

Speaker 2 I need to look at it.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 He still emails me, and I'm like, Bart, I'll have you on. I'm just, I'm still building the studio.

Speaker 1 Well, he's so all in on this. And the more you talk to him, the more you go, God damn it, he might be right.

Speaker 2 He might be. I debunk a lot of his claims.

Speaker 1 Which ones?

Speaker 2 Not all of them. You know, like the parallel shadows and

Speaker 2 how there shouldn't be how a shadow on the moon should be completely black, but that's not really true. And shadows...

Speaker 1 Well, things are reflective, and the surface is reflective. That's part of the issue.
But the parallel shadows are fucking weird.

Speaker 1 Like, you could find a reason why these intersecting shadows could exist, but it also could be more than one source of light. Sure.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of weirdness to it.

Speaker 2 And shadows are not parallel.

Speaker 1 They don't work that way.

Speaker 2 Shadows disappear

Speaker 2 to the horizon. Right.
You know, there are no parallel shadows.

Speaker 1 Right, but going in completely different directions is very odd.

Speaker 1 It's odd. It's very odd.

Speaker 1 That's not nearly as odd as...

Speaker 1 I mean, there's so many different things.

Speaker 1 There's so many things. Like, how

Speaker 1 goofy it looks when that craft lifts off from the moon and takes off at a space. It's wobbling around like it's on a fucking string.

Speaker 2 It looks like it's on a string. And, you know,

Speaker 2 the camera tracks it nicely.

Speaker 1 It pans.

Speaker 1 from where from from houston from houston with the what seven second delay or whatever how about the fact that nixon is on the phone with them in real time in real time like you don't got a delay there would be with 1969 technology communicating like one of the reasons why gus grisham you know though there's the the big theories that grosh gersham was murdered because he wasn't willing to go along with it gus grisham hung a lemon on the lunar module because he wasn't able to communicate with the tower from Earth.

Speaker 1 The communication system wasn't working. And he's like, this is a fucking lemon.
And he puts a lemon on a coat hanger and hangs it on the thing.

Speaker 2 And then. Well, let's go back and look at the original films and maybe we'll learn something.

Speaker 1 Oh, they don't have them anymore.

Speaker 2 Gone.

Speaker 1 They're gone. They don't know.
What about the telemetry data? That's really important. Gone.

Speaker 2 The episode I did on the moon, which is a fun one. I even have a NASA scientist saying, we don't know how to redo the technology.
We just lost it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Didn't write anything down or nothing.

Speaker 1 And then there's the reality of the Van Allen radiation belts.

Speaker 2 That's true.

Speaker 1 That

Speaker 2 could be explained scientifically.

Speaker 1 Can it?

Speaker 2 The radiation is high particles, high voltage, all that, but they're spread wide apart, so you just got to go really fast through them.

Speaker 1 Right, but it took hours to get through it. It did.

Speaker 2 It did, but they still were moving fast.

Speaker 1 Or it would kill everybody.

Speaker 2 Or it would kill everybody.

Speaker 1 This is one of these things. Nobody but the Apollo astronauts ever got through that.
What I would say is, like, they never even flew a chicken through that shit and had it come back alive. No.

Speaker 1 And they're just going to try it out with people?

Speaker 2 Leica the dog did not survive when they threw Leica up there.

Speaker 1 Well, how about Operation Starfish Prime? Were they they shot a nuke into there to try to blow a hole through it, and it wound up making it more radioactive? Of course.

Speaker 1 They thought they were going to blow a hole in the Van Island radiation belt so they could just pop through that hole. Right.

Speaker 2 And now, thanks to that, we've got the South Atlantic anomaly where there's just no protection anymore. We appreciate all that.

Speaker 1 They blew out the power in Hawaii. Right.
Yeah, they fucked up the grid. They were detonating nukes in space.

Speaker 1 Really crazy. People in the 1950s and 60s were buck wild.
They were. They were just, they had so much power.
There was no internet. There was no oversight.

Speaker 1 And they were doing things that were completely new, like nuclear bombs. And they're like, let's see if it does this.

Speaker 2 Even Oppenheimer, they didn't know what was going to happen.

Speaker 1 They had a

Speaker 1 more than 0% possibility that it was going to cause a chain reaction that would destroy the entire environment of the Earth. Yes.
And they were like, let's see. Well, we got to try it.

Speaker 1 There's only one way to know.

Speaker 1 Right. Detonate it.

Speaker 2 And something like Bikini Atoll, which I think was Castle Bravo,

Speaker 2 was like three times more powerful than they thought. You know, it's like we're going for 10 kilotons, but we got 30.
Dude, you got to carry the one. Be careful.

Speaker 2 Be careful.

Speaker 1 Just be be careful.

Speaker 2 I don't even know why we mess with it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's, well, it's too late. Too late.
The genie's out of the bottle. So if you had a bet, if you had $100,000 and you can bet, we went to the moon, we didn't go to the moon.

Speaker 2 That money is not enough. But gun to the head.
Gun to the head. Gun to the head.
We went to the moon without... people.

Speaker 2 That's what I would go with. But let me preface by saying,

Speaker 2 I'm like a bobblehead. I go back and forth, and I can be convinced one way or the other.

Speaker 2 It's a very complicated issue. Like, I can be convinced both ways.

Speaker 1 There's also the weird footage that looks like they're on wires where they're pulled up when they fall down. You could see the reflections.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I get into it.

Speaker 2 It's a good episode. I get into all of that.
I cover Bart.

Speaker 2 Buzz Aldrin knows how to throw a shot.

Speaker 1 Kind of. He gets his hip into it.
Bold shoulders. But it's also the thing is that every other technology from 1969 is cheaper, easier, and faster to reproduce today, except the moon landing.
Right.

Speaker 1 That no one has ever done it again. No one has ever even been to deep not human beings have ever even been to deep space.

Speaker 2 I you and there's no and I don't know why. You know, if we could 3D print anything, why don't we send the 3D printer up into orbit?

Speaker 2 And then every time Elon launches a Starlink, just bring some substrate, bring some wire, and just deliver it there.

Speaker 2 Every time, because you're going to do 10,000 of them, just bring some wire, bring some wire, bring some aluminum, and we can just build the stuff in orbit.

Speaker 2 We don't have to worry about escaping gravity. Just build stuff up, 3D print stuff in orbit.

Speaker 1 Hmm. It sounds a little more complicated than you're making it out to be, but I see what you're saying.

Speaker 1 You know, the film footage, the loss footage that Sabrell had is also very compelling, where it looks like they're filming the moon from, you know, 30,000 miles out, but then when they pull the covers off the windows, it shows you they're actually in near-Earth orbit.

Speaker 1 It fills up the whole window.

Speaker 2 And they even say in that film, we've got the camera right up against the window.

Speaker 2 No one can get in between it.

Speaker 1 But then someone walks in and walks by.

Speaker 2 And then you see what looks like a piece of plastic.

Speaker 1 Go, whoosh!

Speaker 2 And then everything opens up.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 That's a hard one to explain. It is.
And not for public display?

Speaker 2 Not for right.

Speaker 1 That's absolutely right.

Speaker 1 And also,

Speaker 1 why would you ever delete all of the original film?

Speaker 1 What, why would you destroy the original film? Why would they lose the telemetry data?

Speaker 2 And we don't even have a direct feed because they broadcast the feed on a wall and then pointed a TV camera at the wall. Yeah.
And that's what we see.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's why it looks so shitty on television in 1969.

Speaker 2 Because the networks were like, hey, can we get the live feed? And NASA's like, ah, you don't need that.

Speaker 1 It's so weird.

Speaker 2 It's weird.

Speaker 1 It's a weird one.

Speaker 1 It's also just weird that we keep saying we're gonna go back and we still never even get out of earth's gravity or never even get out of earth's atmosphere or earth's orbit rather as soon as the chinese start mining like helium 2 or whatever we'll get we'll get there and people always say oh well there's photographs of the the the lunar lander on the moon you can see it like

Speaker 1 how'd they get that buggy up there How'd they piece that buggy together? Yeah. Little tiny ass fucking lunar module.

Speaker 2 Because you can't see the tracks up there. If, you know, if you believe the stuff.

Speaker 1 What does that mean? How easy is it?

Speaker 1 There's video of me selling Kentucky Fried Chicken. Oh, I got to look that up.
There's like, you know what I'm saying? I got to write that down.

Speaker 1 It might not even be Kentucky Fried Chicken, but it's like, there's AI video of me hawking all kinds of stuff that I've never even seen.

Speaker 2 You show up in my feed. I'm like, oh, well, he's selling chicken.

Speaker 1 It's all fake.

Speaker 1 But that is easy to fake because it's blurry, blurry nonsense photos.

Speaker 2 In my episode on the face on Mars, I show exactly how NASA copy and pasted cloud formations.

Speaker 2 You literally see it's the same cloud formations. And then you see the Mars photos.
They copy and pasted chunks on Mars. They did that.
Like, I didn't make that up.

Speaker 2 What do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 They copy and pasted chunks on Mars.

Speaker 2 You've got this Martian rock face.

Speaker 1 Sidonia.

Speaker 2 Sidonia is where the face was, and the alleged city, and all that. That's that square.
And the square is crazy.

Speaker 1 Square, but that's a recent one that we've been seeing. Yep.
That one's nuts.

Speaker 2 Sidonia was one of the original landing places, and they changed it at the last minute.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 2 Land there and go to the face. Let's see.

Speaker 2 Because if you don't know the story about the face on Mars, the first image is it does look like a face, and then suddenly the images got blurrier, and then it was just kind of a plateau.

Speaker 2 It was, you know, pareidolia. It wasn't really a face.
Right. Well, then land there.

Speaker 2 Drive, you know, Sajona over there, whatever.

Speaker 1 Let's have a look. What's crazy is that the face is right down the street from the square.
Yes. The square, to me, is way more compelling than the face.

Speaker 1 Because if the second images were more clear and it really is just, how do you say that word again? Pareidolia. Pareidolia, if that's really what it is, that kind of makes sense.

Speaker 1 Because the first one's like real blurry and shitty and it was from the 70s. True.
Right. But this square is nuts.
Right.

Speaker 2 It looks geometrical. Yeah.
Right angles.

Speaker 1 And an actual square, or at least similar to a square. It looks like a structure made out of right angles and it's on the fucking moon.
I showed it to Elon Musk. He's like, oh, very interesting.

Speaker 1 We should probably go up there and look around.

Speaker 2 We should. I mean, they're finally admitting that Mars used to have an atmosphere and oceans, giant oceans.
They're finally admitting.

Speaker 1 They found frozen water on Mars. Yeah, which is like, okay.
Yep. Well, if we go back millions and millions of years, like, what did it look like? What was going on there?

Speaker 2 Remember, they sent Joe McMonagall to remote view back on Mars. Oh, what did he say? He said he saw giant, tall beings there in a very advanced society.

Speaker 2 And Joe McMonagall part of the project Stargate remote viewer so that he goes into his thing and he's he's drawing the aliens and the the cities and all that but he didn't know where he was looking they you know they wouldn't tell you at first and then he's done he comes out of his trance or whatever opens the envelope and it says Mars with coordinates 1 million BC or something he said he saw stuff

Speaker 2 And Stargate again with Ingo Swan saw all kinds of stuff on the far side of the moon, which I don't see, I don't hear covered a lot with Ingo, but he remote viewed the moon because he always wanted to do more stuff.

Speaker 2 He's like, I don't want to look at a bridge. I want to go to the moon.
And he said he saw structures on the far side of the moon that sound a lot like Carl Wolfe disclosed in 2001.

Speaker 1 What did he disclose? Carl Wolfe,

Speaker 2 Air Force airman. He's basically a technician.

Speaker 2 Think of a Xerox repairman.

Speaker 2 He has to fix some imaging equipment for NASA slash DOD. It's images from the moon surveyor.
So he goes in, it's a dark room. A guy's working there.

Speaker 1 The guy's like, Carl, look at this.

Speaker 2 It's pictures of the dark side of the moon. He sees domes, towers, roads, all kinds of stuff.
And he can't believe it. And Carl goes home and he told his wife, I can't wait to see this on the news.

Speaker 2 This is crazy what we found. Like, this is civilization on the moon.
And it just, it just goes away.

Speaker 2 And Carl Wolfe said he saw that.

Speaker 1 Remote viewing.

Speaker 1 No, photographs.

Speaker 2 He saw photographs. He saw photographs of it.
He saw photographs.

Speaker 1 Who took the photographs?

Speaker 2 It was the moon surveyor satellite that takes pictures all the time. It's like

Speaker 2 we have images. We have stuff around the moon.
I don't know why there's no webcam. You know, I don't know why we can't just tap into

Speaker 1 a satellite up there.

Speaker 2 They're there. Just send a signal back.

Speaker 2 I read that they just got like 5G working in space.

Speaker 2 Send us a signal. Put a webcam on the ISS.
Let us tune in.

Speaker 2 So Karl Wolf saw that stuff. Ingo Swan saw the same things, but he saw actual beings there.
And he said they were able to sense his consciousness. And he snapped out of it.

Speaker 2 He said, aliens are on the far side of the moon, and they are not our friends. It's a very interesting story.
Ingo Swan, very interesting cat.

Speaker 1 So what took these photographs?

Speaker 2 The moon surveyor, lunar surveyor,

Speaker 1 satellite.

Speaker 1 None of that stuff's ever been released?

Speaker 2 Oh, they released a lot of images from the far side, but they release what they release. That's why we know there's fewer impacts on the far side, because we've seen those images.

Speaker 1 But there's no images of these domes or whatever.

Speaker 2 No, no. I've seen some that maybe are faked, that look pretty compelling.

Speaker 2 I forget what episode I had to show them in, but when I found them,

Speaker 2 it was mind-blowing. And I can't find them again for some reason.

Speaker 2 I wanted them for another episode and I can't find the photos, which is always suspicious to me.

Speaker 2 It's like suddenly the thing is blurry

Speaker 2 off of Malibu.

Speaker 2 You just can't find the stuff. But,

Speaker 2 you know, my gut tells me something's going on up there. Someone's aware of it.

Speaker 2 I'm dying to know what it is.

Speaker 1 It would be unbelievable if Mars was the first planet. that had life before Earth was capable of supporting life.
It reached a very high level of sophistication and then started seeding Earth.

Speaker 2 Right. Panspermia theory.
I believe we have at least one rock from Mars that just landed here. I think we have one of those.
So from maybe a giant impact or something threw some of Mars over here.

Speaker 1 Dum, dumb, dumb. But the idea I think is that their atmosphere was deteriorating or that they were getting further and further from the sun.

Speaker 2 Their magnetic field was weakening, strips away the atmosphere.

Speaker 1 And so this would be the thing. If you were a super advanced civilization, the race would be get so advanced that you could leave your planet.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And that's the only way you're going to survive because eventually your planet is going to move over millions of years further and further away from the sun, not able to inhabit life anymore.

Speaker 2 Right. So maybe send your DNA or whatever to the third rock.

Speaker 1 Or Anunnaki.

Speaker 2 Or Anunnaki.

Speaker 1 That's the good one. Yeah, they show up everywhere.
That's the ultimate one.

Speaker 2 That is the big one.

Speaker 2 Anunnaki is the big one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 1 That's one that makes you go, huh.

Speaker 2 Because it shows up everywhere. It shows up in the Bible.
It shows up in the Mahabharata, shows up in ancient Chinese literature, shows up everywhere.

Speaker 2 Not always called the Anunnaki, but the Anunnaki, and then they have

Speaker 2 their servile species that could be the Nephilim, could be the giants, and then they

Speaker 2 take these primitive humans, give them just enough intelligence to mine, you know, to mine the gold.

Speaker 1 It's part of the lore. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a good one.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's the best one. It's the best one because

Speaker 1 when you do look at ancient Sumer and you look at their detailed map of the solar system, you're like, what the fuck is that? Like, how did they figure that out? Right.

Speaker 1 Like, you're talking about 6,000 years ago, they had depictions of the planets. all in the proper area.

Speaker 1 Like they weren't the exact right size, but like the bigger ones were in the place where the bigger ones would be, the smaller ones in the place where the smaller ones would be. It was representative.

Speaker 2 And the sun looks like a sun like it's got the rays around right showing that this is the center of the solar system right and this is two well how many thousands of years before copernicus right yeah didn't even know um something i don't think it doesn't get enough attention is when these ancient cultures are obsessed with equinoxes a lot of people think equinoxes when day and night are the same but that's that's not what that is that's when day and night are the same it's called the equilux and it's different for everybody on earth depending where you are an equinox is when the sun is over the center center of the Earth's equator.

Speaker 2 Well, how did you know there was an equator?

Speaker 2 So Stonehenge is aligned to the equinoxes. How did you know there was an equator?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 how is the pyramid, the sizes are directly divisible to a number like 4,3200 that could be factored in to calculate the circumference of the Earth? So you can calculate the equinox.

Speaker 2 How did they do that?

Speaker 1 Right, and how is it pointed to true north, south, east, and west? How did they do that? Why does it mirror the stars of the Orion belt?

Speaker 2 But mirrors them 30,000 years ago because of procession.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 So I'm in the camp that the Egyptians found the pyramids, not built them. But I'm glad Zahi's not here.

Speaker 1 Well, that would get you to the ancient civilization theory.

Speaker 1 But when you're looking at an ancient civilization that is as complex as Egypt, and then you factor in the Anunnaki story and all these other things.

Speaker 1 You got to think, like, why were the Egyptians so advanced? Like, where did they learn this from?

Speaker 2 Christopher Dunn has the answer.

Speaker 1 The power plant? Power plant. Yeah.
Is that what you think?

Speaker 2 You know, it's one of my favorite episodes because I, you know, you can either watch My Stupid Thing with the Fish, or the better thing is to just buy Chris's books and read the science.

Speaker 2 Oh, don't be a sheep.

Speaker 2 Don't be a sheep.

Speaker 2 The next one's going to have taxes, our thing.

Speaker 1 For people who don't know, if you haven't watched the show, Hecklefish talks shit from the aquarium during the entire show.

Speaker 1 It's really a funny little...

Speaker 1 It makes the show fun because it's like shows you're not totally taking it seriously. You have a talking fish who talks shit to you the entire time.

Speaker 2 What I'm trying to do is take... weird topics, complex topics, break them down, make them accessible to everybody, have a good time, get you thinking on your own.
If I get things wrong, that's okay.

Speaker 2 As long as you go out and just get interested in stuff, that's what I'm trying to do. Have fun and get you interested.

Speaker 1 Have you been looking at all under the structures underneath the pyramid?

Speaker 2 Yes,

Speaker 2 I'm skeptical of that research because if you look at the imaging,

Speaker 2 I don't see the coils or any of that stuff. I don't see it.
They also said they found the tomb of Nefertiti. No, this tomb of Osiris.

Speaker 2 It just looked like splotches on... on radar.
And they also, they haven't released any of that information to the scientific community. Nothing's peer-reviewed.

Speaker 2 But when it first hit the news, I was like, that supports the power plant theory, the coils and all that.

Speaker 2 But I have a feeling that their research will be debunked. Hope I'm wrong.
Really?

Speaker 1 Well, they released more of it. And because they released more of it and the conversations that Graham Hancock and Brian Murarescu had with them, well, they were initially skeptical as well.

Speaker 1 They've come around more to thinking that these guys might be onto something.

Speaker 1 Because they've done this multiple times now with multiple scans. They keep getting the same results.
And it does kind of look like coils.

Speaker 1 When you look at the images, first of all, the pillars, the fact these pillars are uniform,

Speaker 1 and then the fact that the structure goes down two kilometers into the earth. Yep.
Like,

Speaker 1 maybe

Speaker 1 people 4,500 years ago were so motivated, as Zaoi said, that it's like, this is the project of the entire country, the pride of the country. Okay, maybe.
Maybe. But two kilometers down?

Speaker 1 We're starting to get real crazy.

Speaker 2 I mean, if you look at the,

Speaker 2 like the Temple Khufu pyramid is like perfect and then you look at the pyramids that were built later that we know were Egyptian built and it's like the Timu version.

Speaker 2 It's like you didn't you're not even it's like a mess.

Speaker 1 It's just a pile of rocks. Yeah.
Where

Speaker 2 the Great Pyramid is precise and there's no reasons for these different chambers and the chemical residue. Why?

Speaker 2 And why are there copper rods going down into the aquifer, which is exactly the technology Tesla was using at Warrencliffe Tower, the same exact technology.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 2 You know, there's hydrochloric acid. We have evidence of that.
And we've got the zinc sulfide, and it creates hydrogen atoms that go up the gallery.

Speaker 2 And then there's an opening that's exactly the right wavelength for hydrogen to flow through. And it resonates at 440 hertz and it makes an F-sharp chord.

Speaker 2 And you've got the, it's tuned inside the king's chamber to exactly that chord.

Speaker 2 Or, you know, maybe it's just a place for a dead guy.

Speaker 2 You know, why use rose quartz, which is so highly, you know, the rose granite is so dense with quartz, it's very rare, but it creates a lot of piezoelectricity when you apply pressure to it.

Speaker 2 And hydrogen could do that if you pumped it through the king's chamber.

Speaker 1 It's so fascinating to me that the gatekeepers are so

Speaker 1 reluctant to even consider any possibility that it might have been something other than what they've initially asserted.

Speaker 2 It's frustrating, but it... it it ruins their career and their reputation.
It's like everything you said was wrong.

Speaker 1 Over time, I have a buddy who just went to Egypt and he hired these two archaeologists to take him on a tour.

Speaker 1 And both of them were saying there is no way the original, the actual mainstream story is accurate. They're like, there's no way.
Like, this stuff is beyond.

Speaker 1 And then as he was going through it with him, he said he was just fucking blown away. He said, I haven't been, but he said, you can look at it all day on television and on your laptop.

Speaker 1 When you go there, you're just like, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 I'd love to see it. Yeah, we should go together.
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 let's go let's go zahi wants me to go with him but i just don't think i could i think after an hour i'd be like dude i gotta get away from you yeah freaking me out he'll ruin everything i discovered

Speaker 2 this is my discovery yeah just he didn't even mention the limestone from tour didn't even touch on it what's the significance of that uh it's a great insulator of electricity It's also mine from very far away.

Speaker 2 We know it was definitely there. Herodotus talked about the limestone pyramids that could be seen from the mountains of Arabia.
So Herodotus, they were still there.

Speaker 2 We know that the limestone facing was there because a lot of it was looted after a couple of earthquakes. They built bridges out of it.
You can go touch it. It's there.
But he didn't talk about it.

Speaker 2 But if the pyramid power plant theory is true, then you use the limestone as an insulator. Inside, you've got the granite, which creates this piezoelectricity.

Speaker 2 And then you've got this other limestone in between that kind of keeps everything modulated.

Speaker 1 So if it was a power plant, like what was it powering and how was it doing that?

Speaker 2 That's the big problem I have is, you know, so if Tesla wanted to project this energy into the ionosphere, and then we can, everyone could tap into it with some type of receiver, like a radio.

Speaker 2 But there's no evidence I can find of them powering anything.

Speaker 2 So we can make the argument that maybe if the capstone were gold, this energy could resonate through the center of the pyramid, come up through the golden capstone, and then go straight into the the ionosphere.

Speaker 2 And we know that the pyramid will resonate at certain frequencies and amplify it. That's been tested at about 200 meters is the ideal wavelength.

Speaker 2 But the only other theory is the obelisks at some point were these receivers. But there's no evidence that they powered anything.
But maybe they used the energy for something different. I don't know.

Speaker 1 And if we're looking at the wrong timeline, if we're not really looking at 2,500 BC, if we're looking at 30,000 BC or something even before that,

Speaker 1 which is also a weird thing that Zahid dismissed. He dismissed this idea of the king's list that goes back 30,000 years.
Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he says that just

Speaker 2 myth.

Speaker 1 Yeah. We know exactly.
Also, he said he didn't believe in carbon dating, which is like.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, that's convenient.
That's convenient. Yeah.
Did not believe in carbon dating. And

Speaker 2 what about rock dating? That, you know, that is, that is a thing with certain types of rock. Limestone, not so much, but something like igneous rock,

Speaker 2 you can get a pretty good idea.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the whole thing is very weird.

Speaker 1 It's so weird because it's so vast and so spectacular that no matter what you think, no matter what theories you have, you still have to look at it and you go, how the fuck?

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 it's so nutty that you can't even imagine people making it. Right.
Not people as like we consider people today.

Speaker 1 Like, if a civilization today, if we, let's say for some reason, no one had ever visited a part of the earth, and then they went to a part of the earth and they saw people with these structures today,

Speaker 1 we'd be like, what happened?

Speaker 2 How did you do this? We would think they were wizards. Wizards, right?

Speaker 1 Above and beyond. 2,300,000 stones.

Speaker 1 Hundreds of miles through the mountains, you carried the big ones for the inside the king's chamber. You put them up 130 feet up in the air.
With a ramp. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't think so.

Speaker 1 But it's all just,

Speaker 1 if they did,

Speaker 1 where'd that technology go? Where'd that construction knowledge go? Like, where did their engineering go? Like, how were people that advanced that long ago?

Speaker 2 You know, I like the acoustic levitation theory is an interesting one where they use sound vibration to lift heavy objects. You know, we see that occurring throughout history as part of lore.

Speaker 2 But even in the 1930s,

Speaker 2 a British, maybe he was an archaeologist, naturalist, went to see Buddhist monks monks and using instruments, he watched them levitate heavy objects. And there's film of it.
This is all the legend.

Speaker 2 And when he went back to the UK, they seized the film. But they were using instruments and chanting to levitate these rocks up a cliff face to build whatever they were building.

Speaker 1 Well, how about that wacky dude in Florida that made the Coral Castle?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, that's Edward Lee Scanlon. I found, it's hard to find, but I found him using levers and pulleys and stuff to do it.
It's still amazing what he did. Yeah, by himself.
By himself.

Speaker 2 He's like five foot one,

Speaker 2 90 pounds. And I think that door is tons, and you can push it with your finger.
That door in the Coral Castle is amazing.

Speaker 1 And supposedly did it for his girlfriend? I didn't read that. For his beloved? Yeah.
He did it to impress a lady.

Speaker 2 You went too far, man. You don't have to do that.

Speaker 2 Just buy a nice car.

Speaker 2 Don't do the

Speaker 1 nice car. I'm going to rock this church world.

Speaker 2 Literally going to rock her world.

Speaker 1 She's going to see my coral castle. This motherfucker's the one.
She bailed.

Speaker 2 You bail if a dude builds you a castle.

Speaker 1 Like, uh, look at the time. Mm-hmm.
Gotta go. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 When you do these shows and you know, you've amassed like this channel now with all these like fascinating things. Which ones to you are the most exciting to create? The most exciting.

Speaker 1 Like one of the ones you get really jazzed about.

Speaker 2 The ones that that that kind of shatter my belief system like the hollow moon or the the crop circles the the the the idea of the moon being hollow is because they shot something into the moon and it rang like a bell right right a f well a few things you know one was they deliberately crashed their their rocket into the moon to and there was seismology you know seismographs were placed in the moon to to check what would happen and it did reverberate But mainstream science says it reverberates because it's extremely dry, and that's why sound waves travel like that.

Speaker 2 That's what they say. But other scientists have said it seems to be, if it's not hollow, there are hollow cavities within the moon.

Speaker 1 And why do they think that?

Speaker 2 Just the way that the sound travels and just how

Speaker 2 there are parts of the moon where the surface dirt is,

Speaker 2 let me get this right, where the surface dirt is older than the dirt underneath. The soil on top is older.
And the only way you can do that is through excavation.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 2 Moonquakes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 and the moon had volcanoes on it at some point.

Speaker 1 Passive seismic experiment size monitors were placed during the Apollo 12 mission, remained active until 1977, recording both natural and human-made moonquake alike. Human-made moonquake.

Speaker 1 Also, why are they doing that?

Speaker 1 Why are you trying to make moonquakes? In fact, moonquakes happen fairly regularly.

Speaker 1 Space debris-like asteroids hit the moon more frequently than Earth because the moon's atmosphere is much less dense.

Speaker 1 Right above it, it described that the Apollo 12 mission was the first human-made moonquake. They detonated or they crashed the module back on the surface.

Speaker 2 One ton of TNT.

Speaker 1 Good idea.

Speaker 1 First human-made moonquake to take place, the PSC size monitors, oh, seismometers, size...

Speaker 1 seismometers record the resulting vibrations which were much bigger and lasted much longer than the scientists had anticipated.

Speaker 1 They were far different from the earthquake vibrations we're familiar with. And that next paragraph said it's because the moon is 60% as dense.
Which doesn't mean it's hollow, but it's just different.

Speaker 1 Right, right.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 if the collision theory is true, which is the mainstream theory, then the moon was made mostly out of Earth's mantle, which will be less dense, is why.

Speaker 2 It just kind of clipped us.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But the moon is weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so the hollow moon one freaks you out. Crop circles.

Speaker 2 Crop circles. You know, those are the fun ones.

Speaker 2 I do the conspiracy.

Speaker 2 The government conspiracy ones are interesting to me,

Speaker 2 but a lot of times they make me angry. So it's not really fun, but I think it's important.

Speaker 1 With the CIA stuff, MK Ultra.

Speaker 2 MK Ultra and Agent Orange. That stuff really makes me angry.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, the DARPA episode, I end up kind of losing my temper and crying a little at the end, which I didn't mean to do.

Speaker 2 And it was just in the the course of the research just that's what happens things start to unfold i just wanted to see darpa's history and as i'm learning about it it's like oh these guys did some bad bad stuff and then when you get to vietnam and you know you got the chemical company dow chemical and uh dupont and all this creating ancient blue agent purple ancient orange yeah

Speaker 2 and uh And more, I mean, more American soldiers got sick than actually got killed in the conflict.

Speaker 2 You know, I dedicated the episode to my father-in-law who had all kinds of injuries from Agent Orange. The government denied any responsibility for years.

Speaker 2 They finally agreed to a settlement in 1981 and he applied for his benefits and the government made due. They kept their word.
He got his settlement 40 years later.

Speaker 1 Jesus. And even that's never going to be enough to

Speaker 1 settle those health problems.

Speaker 2 Right. So your country needs you and you answer the call and then when you need your country, take a number.

Speaker 1 And your country needs you based on a false flag.

Speaker 2 Gulf of Tonkin.

Speaker 1 Yeah, which is also very dark. LBG.

Speaker 1 They fake attacks to get us to go to war. And then there's Operation Northwoods, which is a really wonky one.

Speaker 2 That was the one to get us into Cuba. Yeah.
And that was probably

Speaker 2 the beginning of the end for Kennedy. Because I believe Kennedy put a stop on Northwoods.

Speaker 1 And Bay of Pigs wouldn't allow air support.

Speaker 2 Right. He got screwed on that.
And the Bay of Pigs, that was the end. That was where Kennedy says, we need to start again.
We got to dismantle this and start again.

Speaker 2 I I can't rely on my intelligence community.

Speaker 2 And Eisenhower, he talked to Eisenhower a lot. And Eisenhower gave him advice and said,

Speaker 2 watch out for the CIA. Keep an eye on them.
Because remember when Eisenhower left, he gave that famous farewell address where he said, beware of the military-industrial complex.

Speaker 2 You make war profitable, you're going to have more war. Because America was never like that before.
You know, we kept, we had a defensive military, not an aggressive military, forever.

Speaker 1 Profit is where the devil does his best work. That's right.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's right. That's from the Bible, isn't it?

Speaker 1 It might be. But it's really what it is.
If evil is real, justification for evil.

Speaker 1 Like if you have a compartmentalized situation like they do with corporations where you have this diffusion of responsibility because you have a bunch of people that are all working together.

Speaker 1 Hey, it's not my, I'm just working. This is part of my job.
And then you have a responsibility to shareholders to make maximum profits every quarter.

Speaker 1 And then you justify all kinds of things and you get rewarded. Great job.
You did a great job, AJ. We like how you made those profits.
You got a nice fat bonus.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, you drink yourself to sleep every night.

Speaker 2 My stepsister just retired from Grumman. She worked in top secret programs.
She won't tell the family what she did.

Speaker 1 Dun, dun, dun. She wants to live.
Good. Keep your mouth shut, lady.

Speaker 1 Keep it shut.

Speaker 2 Lisa, be quiet.

Speaker 1 I'd keep my mouth shut.

Speaker 2 She never said a word.

Speaker 1 Why would you? It's not worth it. No.
It's not worth it. Pension's too good.
Also, you don't want to die. You know, it's just like they get rid of people.

Speaker 1 If you're in the business of killing people, which is what military contractors are, they are in the business of killing you if you get in the business of killing people.

Speaker 1 They're like, oh, we just have to kill one more person, and then we can kill a whole bunch of other people and make a lot of money. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Of course. Oh, look, he had a heart attack.

Speaker 2 Whoops.

Speaker 2 He fell out of a hotel window. The Frank Olson murder

Speaker 2 is taught by Israeli intelligence as the perfect murder.

Speaker 2 Frank Olson was part of MPA Ultra and was starting to have second doubts about it. So they sent him to a psychiatrist who he didn't know was actually

Speaker 2 worked for Sidney Gottlieb and was, you know, into programming and he was freaking out. And he's up in a hotel room with someone else from MK and he falls out the window.

Speaker 2 But if you look at the window where he fell, it's like, you know, two feet by two feet.

Speaker 2 You can't just jump out the window. So he was found on the sidewalk by the doorman.
That's Frank Olson worth looking up.

Speaker 1 He was joked for talking to his family afterwards. They gave him $750,000.

Speaker 2 That's right. And it took a lot of power.

Speaker 1 Selling it.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 Right. And it was be quiet.
We'll give you the money, but be quiet about it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, it's all real, and it's just.

Speaker 1 Yeah, just the stuff that's undeniable is enough to make you just go, whoa,

Speaker 1 what is happening?

Speaker 1 What is really going on behind the scenes?

Speaker 2 You know, I don't, the MVA Ultra, the testimonies from the women is really heartbreaking to watch them.

Speaker 2 You know, the sexual abuse that they endured for years at that, you know, the whatever that was, that lodge on the water near D.C., and just tortured and

Speaker 2 crazy stuff.

Speaker 2 Operation Midnight Caller, you know that one? Which one's that?

Speaker 1 That

Speaker 2 happened in San Francisco where they had agents hiring prostitutes.

Speaker 1 Oh, Midnight Climax.

Speaker 2 Midnight Climax behind the two-way glass.

Speaker 1 Nuts.

Speaker 2 Nuts. Bunch of weirdos.

Speaker 2 Tax dollars at work. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's because they had

Speaker 1 no oversight. You're going to give ultimate power.
It's all totally deniable.

Speaker 2 And it was,

Speaker 2 I think it was Nixon who... banned it in 72.
It might have even been 69 before he came in. They kept doing it anyway.
Same with bioweapons.

Speaker 2 They were ordered by executive order to get rid of their bioweapons, and it was found out years later. They were just stockpiling them.
They still had them.

Speaker 2 And you know, they still do.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you hesitate? Do you hesitate sometimes when you're doing these government cover-up ones? Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know, I don't want to say I'm a.

Speaker 1 Because they're dangerous. They are.
Bigfoot's not dangerous.

Speaker 2 No, Bigfoot's not going to hurt me.

Speaker 1 Bigfoot's a fun one.

Speaker 2 It is fun.

Speaker 1 UFOs are fun ones.

Speaker 2 Different dimensions.

Speaker 2 Fun stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's hard for me because I consider myself a patriot,

Speaker 2 very pro-military, pro-law enforcement, but also anti-war and

Speaker 2 pro-criminal justice reform. I'm

Speaker 2 politically confused.

Speaker 1 Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2 You know, I just like fairness and transparency, that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You like to think that our government's good.

Speaker 2 I do like to think that, and this journey has shown me that it's mostly not.

Speaker 2 You know, it's really mostly not, but it's a government made of men, and men are flawed and selfish, and men will hurt each other.

Speaker 1 And there's also justifications that can be made rather for doing terrible things because there's terrible people out there, and you have to stay ahead. Always.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Don't become a monster when you're fighting monsters.

Speaker 2 That's exactly right. And this collateral damage is just

Speaker 1 part of it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, so we give them a settlement to stay quiet, but this is for national security.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Great or good.

Speaker 1 What other ones have freaked you out?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it's hard to say off the top of my head.

Speaker 2 MK Ultra is a tough one.

Speaker 2 I have covered Northwoods

Speaker 2 and some of those.

Speaker 2 Operation Gladio was a crazy one.

Speaker 2 That was where the CIA was killing civilians after World War II.

Speaker 2 Alan Dulles, I'm going to do an episode on Alan Dulles, the Dulles Brothers, their connection to the Nazis and all of that. That's going to be a dangerous one.

Speaker 1 What were they doing? They were killing people for what reason?

Speaker 2 So we had to fight communism, communism, communism. So they trained a secret army, a civilian army in Italy to bomb civilians and then blame it on the communists.

Speaker 2 The communists at that time were the most popular party in Italy, you know, post-war, because they had just went through fascism, right, with Mussolini. So you just...

Speaker 2 It always swings too far the other way.

Speaker 2 So we swing way the other way. Communism, very popular, can't have that.
So

Speaker 2 civilians were killed in bombings by the CIA-trained guerrilla army. and they were trained by a Nazi general who was tight with Alan Dulles.
And it was pl and this was planned during the war.

Speaker 2 You know, while American GIs were being killed fighting the Nazis, they were already planning this next phase.

Speaker 2 But civilians died in massacres, and they blamed it on communists, and it was denied and denied, and eventually it came out. It was called Operation Gladio.

Speaker 2 Gladio is a Gladius is the sword of the of the Roman side.

Speaker 1 How did they kill the the people? Bomb. Car bomb.

Speaker 2 Car bomb was a big one. I think it was in Milan, but there was a few.

Speaker 1 And they were just blaming the communists to stop communism.

Speaker 2 Because it was a huge, Italy was a lot of turmoil. I think it was called like the years of lead or like the decades of lead, something like that.
Because people were just getting killed all the time.

Speaker 2 I don't know how many constitutions Italy's had since World War II, but it's probably over two dozen at this point. You know, it's a chaotic place.

Speaker 1 Wow. That's my people.

Speaker 2 It's my people, too.

Speaker 1 We're goofy.

Speaker 1 What about the Richard structure?

Speaker 2 You know, people ask me about that, the eye of the Sahara.

Speaker 2 I usually say, you know what, go to Corsetti, go to Bright Insight, go to Randall Carlson.

Speaker 1 Corseti is the most... Randall Carlson doesn't believe that that was Atlantis.
Right. But Corsetti makes a very compelling case.
Mountains to the north, the river to the south.

Speaker 2 The circular, the concentric rings.

Speaker 1 The concentric rings, they're the correct size. Yep.
The fact that there's still salt on the ground there.

Speaker 2 I want to believe it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then there's like when you pull back and you get the satellite image of the surface, and it looks like it was just completely deluged. It does.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, we know for a fact it was deluged.

Speaker 2 It doesn't line up with Atlantis. I mean, Carlson has shown us how the surface of Africa was just altered

Speaker 2 by the flood. So it all lines up, but there's all these leaps that we have to make.
I enjoy making them.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 on my show, I try to let people know, look, I connected some dots here.

Speaker 2 I had to fill in some gaps with a little bit of creative license. But if you're interested, go pursue it.
Go learn more. I want that to be Atlantis.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it seems like Atlantis was a real place. Because once they found out that Troy was a real place, Troy was also dismissed.
Yes, it was. They found out, no, Troy actually existed.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't seem like any of those stories were bullshit. It seems like they were historical accounts.

Speaker 1 And the thing about Plato's writings about Atlantis, he talks about it having existed 900 years prior, which lines up perfectly with the younger Dryas.

Speaker 2 Right, and he learned it from an Egyptian priest who learned it from someone else. So the story goes back beyond Plato, if you believe Plato, which you can.

Speaker 1 You can believe Plato. Well, he was right about a lot of things.

Speaker 1 And it's just, it's so fascinating when you think of like that kind of historical record keeping that you're getting these

Speaker 1 depictions of what kind of a civilization existed thousands and thousands of years ago.

Speaker 2 Right. So what, you know, with Homer's Iliad, what did they think he was writing about? A fictional place? I mean, that was, that was the story.

Speaker 1 I think I said 900 years. I meant 9,000 years ago.
9,000, right, 9,000 years, yeah.

Speaker 1 Which is like, first of all, like, how do you get 9,000 years of history 2,000 years ago? Like, what are you even getting? Yeah.

Speaker 1 How are these stories?

Speaker 1 How are they documented? Like, how do they pass them? How do they pass them on? Like, who are the original people? Like, what's the actual version of the story? Like, which one is more accurate?

Speaker 1 Epic of Gilgamesh, Noah's Ark?

Speaker 1 Like, something seems to exist in almost every ancient civilization.

Speaker 2 They all have a flood myth. Yeah.
And, you know, Gilgamesh and Noah's Ark, it sounds very, they're very similar stories. And there are other cultures that have a Noah's Ark story.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's my favorite currently. I've seen

Speaker 1 a ton of videos. And I think Jimmy Corsetti does the best job about the Reich Art structure.
But he's all in on it. Yes.
And I think, like, it doesn't look natural.

Speaker 2 No, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 It doesn't. It looks like exactly, and it's like, what a coincidence that it matches the dimensions of Atlantis as described.

Speaker 2 And it's in the right place. So, you know, when people argue for Bimini Bimini being Atlantis, it's like they didn't know what any of that was, but they knew what North Africa was.

Speaker 1 Right. And also, it's so close to Egypt.
It's so close to what we already know was a super advanced civilization that existed.

Speaker 2 There's been no excavations of that?

Speaker 1 I don't believe so.

Speaker 1 Of the ray shard structure? Yeah, I'm reading all about it.

Speaker 1 What have they done? Like deep? 1974 was discovered. They found artifacts.
I'm looking right, and that's what I was about to show you.

Speaker 1 This isn't a great example, but there's other,

Speaker 1 this isn't it,

Speaker 1 another eye that looks similar to it in the same area. Interesting.

Speaker 1 And then the comments say that there's even two or three of these. Whoa.

Speaker 1 And I was reading Stephen Novella's breakdown of Jimmy's video.

Speaker 1 He says he's leaving out some known facts, like there was a canal that connected each of the circles that isn't apparent in the reshot structure.

Speaker 1 But those are the things I was just getting at right now.

Speaker 2 This looks like canals.

Speaker 1 Well, that's a different. This isn't the reshot structure.
Right, right. Show the reshart structure.

Speaker 2 And the reshot structure is strange because the coloration is different than the rest of the.

Speaker 1 That was also the depictions of the colors of the rocks is the same. Red and black.
Yeah, like that is fucking crazy. That's crazy.
It is.

Speaker 1 The one guy who found artifacts said there was some stuff like out here on the outer circles, but not very many inside. Well,

Speaker 1 the question is, like, how big was the catastrophe and how much would be left and what would you actually see? You know, like how much was the structure altered by whatever the fuck happened?

Speaker 2 Right. So when we talk about ancient advanced civilizations, we're not talking about more advanced than us.
We just mean advanced. Right.
So people will say, well, where's their plastic?

Speaker 2 Where's their...

Speaker 1 Yeah, but it doesn't have to be the same kind of advanced. It doesn't.

Speaker 1 Combustion engines, all the different things that we've done, electronics, like we're just assuming that technology always goes in the exact same path. But it's whatever the fuck they were doing,

Speaker 1 whatever we know they were doing in Egypt was extraordinary in terms of like their ability to core the drills when they have these cores that they like high-speed drills that seem to be

Speaker 1 if not diamond-tipped, something of a similar vein that allowed them to dig into that fucking granite like that.

Speaker 2 Right. How did they generate 2,000 RPMs or whatever? How could they do that?

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's all freaky, man.

Speaker 1 I mean, Graham has the best depiction. He said, we are a species with amnesia.

Speaker 2 That's the perfect way to say it.

Speaker 2 You know, it's a shame that he's marginalized, but I like that Netflix is stuck by him and keep up with those out.

Speaker 1 Well, the facts are the facts.

Speaker 1 You know, just the structures that he's uncovering, when you're looking at Gunam Padang, when you're looking at all these different places, when you look at, you know, just Machu Picchu, all these different places.

Speaker 1 Like, what the fuck was going on? Like, why is this stuff so complex? Why is it so fascinating?

Speaker 2 And why aren't we allowed to ask? Why aren't we allowed to investigate it?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Remember

Speaker 2 when his Ancient Apocalypse Season 1 came out, there was a British newspaper that said Graham Hancock is the most dangerous man in the world.

Speaker 1 Because of the white supremacists, just dumbasses. Well, they always want to connect it to white supremacy, which is so crazy because Graham Hancock is the furthest from a white supremacist.

Speaker 1 You know, he's married to a woman of color.

Speaker 1 He's like the sweetest, nicest guy. He's a vegan.

Speaker 2 Of course.

Speaker 2 He never said they were white folks.

Speaker 1 No, no one says that.

Speaker 2 And who cares? I just want to know who they were.

Speaker 1 Well, they couldn't be white folks because white folks don't live there. No.
Like if they're Egyptians, they're Africans. Right.

Speaker 1 The Africans were the most sophisticated civilization that we have ever seen that existed at that point in time.

Speaker 1 We don't know if they're as sophisticated as we are, but we know they did some stuff back then that we're not capable of today. Yes.
And that's real. It is.
And we don't know how.

Speaker 1 We don't know what technology they had. But here's the thing.
If it's not from 2,500 BC, but it's really from 30,000 B.C., what do you think would be left? Like, only maybe the stone.

Speaker 1 That would be it.

Speaker 1 That's part of the problem. I mean, steel, any kind of bigger.
Be gone.

Speaker 2 It would only take 100 years for Manhattan to be covered by vegetation. Right.
A thousand years,

Speaker 2 the skyscrapers would crumble. Right.
10,000 years, it'd all be washed away.

Speaker 1 100,000 years, you're not going to see jack shit. Nothing.
Nothing. Yeah.
Who is that British archaeologist that we brought up the other day, Jamie,

Speaker 1 where he has this really good point that human beings have been in essentially the same form for the last 300,000 years?

Speaker 1 Like it's not outside the realm of possibility that we have achieved very high levels of sophistication multiple times and have been knocked back down to the Stone Age again. Sure.

Speaker 1 By cataclysmic events.

Speaker 2 Right. And that makes a lot of sense to me, that it's just part of a cycle.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, the doomsday clock is, it's kind of a real thing.

Speaker 2 Is that you just get to a level of technology where you just are too dangerous for your own good. We're not sophisticated enough for nuclear weapons.
We're not smart enough to have those. No.

Speaker 1 Well, that's the hope, is that that's what the aliens are here for. To go, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
Right.

Speaker 1 Because they have. Yeah.
But then

Speaker 2 why did they allow just the United States to detonate 60-something bombs?

Speaker 1 Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 Two of them that caused mass death right hiroshima and nagasaki but that's also when the ufo starts showing up in mass you know and you know i have this comedy club called the comedy mothership and the rooms are named fat man and little boy okay and the reason why is because in ufo folklore after those bombs were dropped that's when the mothership started showing up right yeah and in some tests you can see stuff in the sky in the films i think you can see something at castle bravo could be wrong but there are some tests where you can see stuff in the sky.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 2 what was that for a few frames? Like, they were keeping an eye on.

Speaker 1 I hope they are. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That would be nice. Please.
That would be nice. Well, listen, AJ, I love your fucking show.
You have provided me with hours and hours of entertainment. It's an awesome program.

Speaker 1 You do a really good job. It's really well done.
I don't know who's doing it with you and how you promote, how you produce it, but you guys fucking kill it.

Speaker 2 Thanks, man. Great team.

Speaker 1 It's a great show. The Y files, it's available on YouTube, 4.73 million subscribers.
So I'm not alone. And you guys have only been around for how many years now?

Speaker 2 2020.

Speaker 1 That's amazing. Five years, and you already have almost 5 million subscribers.

Speaker 1 CIA is just backing it up. It's a great fucking show.
That's what it is. So I'm glad we finally did this.
Appreciate it. Thank you very much, man.

Speaker 1 And if you ever got anything crazy, you want to break it here, we're ready for you. If you got an episode coming out, you want everybody to know about, come on back.

Speaker 1 I think we probably do this 100 times.

Speaker 1 Thank you, brother. Appreciate you.
All right, bye, everybody.