#2321 - Dr. Zahi Hawass

Speaker 0 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

Speaker 1 The Joe Rogan experience train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Speaker 1 You can talk as long as you want. No, it's up to you to decide.
It's up to you.

Speaker 1 I'll talk to you forever. I have so many questions.
I'm very excited to meet you. Same.
I've seen you in documentaries for decades.

Speaker 1 So many documentaries. I've watched so many things about Egypt.
I'm completely fascinated by you. You know, I will tell you something.

Speaker 1 Do you know this guy used to do a radio show late evening? Art Bell?

Speaker 1 The best.

Speaker 1 I need to say this on air. I need to say his story on air.
Okay. Now, are we in air now? Yeah, we're on air.

Speaker 1 Art Bell

Speaker 1 used every evening to attack me.

Speaker 1 Bad you? Yes.

Speaker 1 How there

Speaker 1 say how the Egyptian can move stones?

Speaker 1 That's not true. The Egyptians cannot do that.

Speaker 1 Then I was teaching at UCLA and he called me for an interview. I said no, I'm not going to give you an interview until you come to visit me in Egypt.
And he said, okay. He came with his wife.

Speaker 1 I took him to a quarry

Speaker 1 that we are cutting stones

Speaker 1 to construct the Sphinx.

Speaker 1 Then I brought a stone.

Speaker 1 eight tons weight and I brought a man on the age of 70 and I told this man cut this stone. The old man stood above the stone.
You know, stones have weak parts like us.

Speaker 1 With a pencil, he drew

Speaker 1 a line from the beginning to the end.

Speaker 1 In the middle, he put a piece of iron, bum, bum, he cut it for twice.

Speaker 1 I said, Art, the Egyptian, doesn't use muscles, they use their brain. Because the pyramid was the national project of the whole nation.

Speaker 1 If you go today, if I take you today with me, and you know I always tell people this, I give lectures maybe three,

Speaker 1 four times a week for American groups, and I tell them the following. If you stood in front of the Great Pyramid and you look at it, you will never believe that this pyramid built by human being.
Why?

Speaker 1 Because you don't know. And number two, if you try to do it today, you'll never be able to do it.
Are you going to hire today ten thousand workmen to work for ten, for twenty-eight years for nothing?

Speaker 1 That was a national project of the whole nation.

Speaker 1 I think Art Bell's real concern was how would someone possibly move those stones four thousand five hundred years ago. Okay.
A lot of questions, right? Yes. But can I answer you now? Yes, please.

Speaker 1 Listen.

Speaker 1 Two examples I will tell you.

Speaker 1 The first example happened a few years ago. I discovered a tomb in a site called Abosphere.

Speaker 1 In the top of the tomb,

Speaker 1 there was a huge granite sarcophagus, 20 tons weight.

Speaker 1 Okay? Okay.

Speaker 1 If you come to Egypt, have you been in Egypt? No, I haven't. You have to.
If you talk about Egypt. No, I I have to.
You have to come. I know.
But you have to tell me before you come.

Speaker 1 I will tell you. Now.
I promise. I brought only ten people

Speaker 1 because I called the Minister of Culture

Speaker 1 and I told him, we found

Speaker 1 an intact tool.

Speaker 1 And the minister said, wait, I will bring the reporter the breast and we'll do it live. I said, okay.
But I hate to do anything live.

Speaker 1 Then I came to the site, I brought my workmen, ten workmen only moved

Speaker 1 the 20 tons

Speaker 1 only by wooden stitches. We found underneath another sarcophagus,

Speaker 1 tin tons weight of granite. We took the third one and we found underneath another, a third one, five tons weight.
We took the five tons out and we found underneath a coffin with a mummy.

Speaker 1 And I told the workmen, put everything back.

Speaker 1 And I called the minister, I said, you can bring the press, we'll open it live. I never told them that I cheated him.
But only

Speaker 1 in a site that I'm excavating right now,

Speaker 1 we do discover 60 feet under the ground, we discover sealed sarcophagus. The lid is about 10 tons weight.
Two workmen only open the lid for me.

Speaker 1 We have a machine called the devil. I don't know why they called it the devil.
Devil? Devil. Why? I don't know.
I asked them. They said our grandfathers called it like that.
Then they brought it.

Speaker 1 This is an ancient machine? It is an ancient machine. Jamie could probably pull it up.

Speaker 1 Then they put this machine under

Speaker 1 the lid.

Speaker 1 And they come doing it like this. And they raise the lid little bit.

Speaker 1 When the lid. The lid is raised, they put a piece of wood, another piece of wood,

Speaker 1 until there is a half a feet that they can put

Speaker 1 my

Speaker 1 face inside with the sarcophag, with a flashlight to see what's inside the coffin.

Speaker 1 That's what we because the people today

Speaker 1 are the descendants of the ancient Egyptian.

Speaker 1 There is a a village located north of Luxor.

Speaker 1 And this village, all the people work in antiquities.

Speaker 1 And they know, if you look at their faces, exactly like the ancient Egyptian people. And all the people working with me.
I'm excavating right now in Giza. We're going to tell you good news

Speaker 1 inside the Great Pyramid that we found,

Speaker 1 and also in Saqqara and Luxor.

Speaker 1 And this is why, in my lecture tour, now I'm making major important announcements that we'll talk about with you today. Okay, what did you find?

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 you know, can I call you Joe? Please do. And you call me Zahi.
Okay. Now,

Speaker 1 you know, I do receive fan emails. You've received emails? Fan.
Fan emails. About 50 a week.

Speaker 1 Some of them, bad ones.

Speaker 1 Some people think

Speaker 1 that I discovered evidence to prove that pyramids built by aliens. or lost civilization and I hide them.
I never answer these questions. But to you, I tell you, how do I, how can I hide anything?

Speaker 1 I'm not working alone. I'm working with people.

Speaker 1 You cannot hide anything, because people will see you. And I will tell you a joke.

Speaker 1 It happened, but it's a joke.

Speaker 1 A reporter came to see me from California to my office, and my office was located next to the Great Pyramid of Kufu.

Speaker 1 And he said to me, People say at 12 12 noon, you leave your office and you go to the bathroom and you open a tunnel from your bathroom. Through it.
Really, it's what he said.

Speaker 1 And you go from the tunnel to the great pyramid

Speaker 1 and you hide things and you come back. I said, okay, what do you need from me now? He said, I want to see your bathroom.
This really happened.

Speaker 1 He went to my bathroom. Did he check all the panels? And he came back.
I said, have you seen any tunnels in my bathroom? He said, no. I said, what are you going to do now?

Speaker 1 He said, I will publish your bathroom in the internet. And therefore, if you want to see my bathroom, write www.howasbathroom.com.
Is that much of an issue that people really believe it?

Speaker 1 That you had to make a website for you?

Speaker 1 They do. They do believe in this.

Speaker 1 And some of them attack me badly. Well, that's part of the problem, right? Is that the Egyptian pyramids and just Egypt in general is so spectacular.

Speaker 1 The accomplishments of the ancient Egyptians were so monumental and so above anything that anybody had ever achieved.

Speaker 1 And since, you know, what they've done thousands and thousands of years ago still to this day puzzles people when they try to figure out how it was built.

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Rated M for mature. I will tell you.

Speaker 1 You will tell me how it was built? Of course. Okay.

Speaker 1 I.

Speaker 1 How do you know? How do you know?

Speaker 1 How do you know? I found all the evidence of building the pyramid.

Speaker 1 We published a book, 1,000 pages. This book is the Bible of the pyramids of Giza Plateau.
Okay, tell me how they did it. Now,

Speaker 1 what we found out, the major problem

Speaker 1 that people

Speaker 1 think

Speaker 1 about pyramids, because most of the information that's written on pyramids are wrong. Most of it? Most of it.
In archaeology books? In archaeology books. Really? Except me and Mark Leonard.

Speaker 1 You guys are the only ones that have it right? Because I have been working in Giza for the last 57 years of my life. I excavated every bit of sand.
Okay,

Speaker 1 what do the archaeologists have wrong in these archaeologists' books? For example, number one.

Speaker 1 They say that the workmen who built the pyramids work it only four months a year. When the flood covered the whole country, the king hired the workmen to work in this pyramid.
This is wrong.

Speaker 1 And I will tell you what's correct. Number two, that the stones used in building the Great Pyramid came from Torah.
And Torah is 25 miles to the east from Giza.

Speaker 1 And number three, that Kufu ruled for 23 years.

Speaker 1 And number four, that the stones of the Great Pyramid are 2,300 solar blocks. How many blocks are there? Now, let us talk about number one, the workmen.
The workmen.

Speaker 1 I found the tombs of the pyramid builders only one mile south of the Sphinx. A major important discovery that can tell everyone,

Speaker 1 number one, that pyramids built by Egyptians because of the names that we found inside the cemetery. And there were no slaves.

Speaker 1 Here's your phone.

Speaker 1 I have to. I have to kill that thing.
Kill it. You're right.

Speaker 1 I always, because I do lots of interviews, I always close it. Oh, I get it.
Except it today.

Speaker 1 No worries.

Speaker 1 Nobody knows how to shut these things off anymore.

Speaker 1 Then now, this discovery. So explain.
So you found the pyramids. Excuse me.
You found the workers' pyramids' graves a mile away. Away, one mile south

Speaker 1 of the pyramids. And by their names,

Speaker 1 Then I found names of the workmen. I found the lower cemetery.
The lower cemetery were for the burial of the workmen who moved the stones.

Speaker 1 And the upper cemetery was for the technicians. Right, and how do you know this? I will tell you.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 the tombs down there are very primitive tombs, built from mud brick, cost nothing. Underneath is a skeleton.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 if the skeleton is for a man, he's holding a beer jar. He wants to drink beer in the afterlife.
If the skeleton is for a woman, she has a perfume vessels. She wants to have perfume in the afterlife.

Speaker 1 Inside the upper cemetery, I found 21 titles in hieroglyphic.

Speaker 1 For example, the overseer in hieroglyphic of the side of the pyramid.

Speaker 1 Imira Ges Mer

Speaker 1 The overseer of the west side of the pyramid. Draftsman, craftsman, the one who stands in front of the harbor.
All these titles had to do with building the pyramid.

Speaker 1 Inside the tombs, we found the tools that the Egyptian used to cut the stones. What tools? Durite and flint tools.
Because in the old kingdom, there was no iron.

Speaker 1 Are these photos of these tools available online? Can we look at them? Yeah, I can send it to you.

Speaker 1 Are they online? No, in my book, Giza and the Pyramids. I don't know if it's online.
I'm sure it's online. Jamie, you'll find it.
So these stoons, these tools were flint and durite. What is durite?

Speaker 1 Deorite,

Speaker 1 D-I-O-R-I-T-E. Deorite is more sharp stone than iron.

Speaker 1 And it came

Speaker 1 from

Speaker 1 a quarry south of Aswan. So you feel like they used this very hard stone to cut into the stone.
To cut the stones. And I will come back to this cutting the stones.

Speaker 1 But let me continue about the workmen.

Speaker 1 To the east of the tombs, we found an area for sorting salted fish.

Speaker 1 We found an area for the bakery, making bread.

Speaker 1 We found the workmen's barracks for the workmen who move the stones to live. We found a whole city for the technicians, for the artisans.

Speaker 1 And we discovered thousands of animal bones because people always say that the workmen who built the pyramid, they ate only garlic and bread and drink beer.

Speaker 1 And I thought if they do that, they will die. But now we discovered that they slaughter 11 cows and 33 goats every day.
And this can feed 10,000 workmen a day.

Speaker 1 Then we believe now, and I published that the workmen who built the pyramids were ten thousand workmen, and they worked every day, and they took one day off every ten days.

Speaker 1 Joe, I want to tell you, the pyramid was a national project. The three millions who lived in Egypt had to build the pyramid for the king to be a god.

Speaker 1 And therefore, the households in the south and the north of Egypt participated in building the pyramid by sending workforce and food to help the king. Now we come to the second point, the stones.

Speaker 1 We discovered that all the stones of the three pyramids at Giza,

Speaker 1 the stones came from quarries in the site itself.

Speaker 1 Even the king's chamber? No,

Speaker 1 except the granite in the king's chamber

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 from Aswan. And that's 500 miles away, right? Yes, by the flood.

Speaker 1 The flood. And those were 50 to 80 tons? It doesn't matter.
It doesn't. Yes.

Speaker 1 If I was working there, it would matter. I'm not sure if I can do it.
No, no,

Speaker 1 I shot you. I shot you.
Not only 50 tons. It's 20 tons.
Now, what we found out,

Speaker 1 first how the Egyptians built the pyramid. They make on the ground a square base.
Okay?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And after that, they cut in the solid rock in the four sides.

Speaker 1 You know.

Speaker 1 I'm going to tell you one thing. Okay.
If you tell me that pyramids built by giants, okay?

Speaker 1 I will say, okay, come to the excavation. All the skeleton that you discover are five to six feet high.

Speaker 1 Nothing about giants.

Speaker 1 Some people say that. Okay.

Speaker 1 The second. I've heard aliens.
Okay, the second aliens. If Joe, if aliens build the pyramids,

Speaker 1 do they leave any do they shit sometimes? Aren't they going to shit? Maybe aliens don't shit. If they don't shit, are they going to leave something on the ground?

Speaker 1 On the contrary, I give you the evidence, every evidence that I will tell you today

Speaker 1 of actual workers and what's happening. Now, we come about building the pyramid.

Speaker 1 All the stones I told you came from Giza Plateau. We found out what happened first.
They cut in the solid rock. Okay.

Speaker 1 And they made the base of the pyramid to be 28

Speaker 1 feet on the solid rock.

Speaker 1 No stones. Do you get this? Yes.
We have in Egypt 120 pyramids. We don't have only Kufu pyramid that everyone is talking about.
You have 120 pyramids. This is one of them.

Speaker 1 But the reason that this pyramid is so accurate and strong, because Giza Plateau is the only site in Egypt of the pyramids. It's a part of the Vokatam Formation.
It has three levels.

Speaker 1 Level one and two are very bad stones. But level three is the top quality of the stones.

Speaker 1 Then the Egyptians use this stone to build the pyramid. Then, after they make the base of the pyramid to be 20 feet eight of stone, we found out 1,000 feet away,

Speaker 1 we found out the quarry location. All the stones.
So they only had to bring the stones 1,000 feet.

Speaker 1 Only.

Speaker 1 Only the stones

Speaker 1 that came from outside are the casing stones and I will talk about this later that came from Torah and the granite came from Aswan. And the casing stones were the outside smooth surface.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 It came from Torah.

Speaker 1 Then now when we discovered the quarry location and the base of the pyramid, we thought how they established the ramp.

Speaker 1 You know the ramp? Right. To move.
To move the stones.

Speaker 1 We found out if the Egyptian will make the ramp from the quarry to the base, it will never happen.

Speaker 1 Because when you raise the base, you need to extend the ramp. We found out,

Speaker 1 listen to this carefully, that the only way to have a permanent ramp is to come to the southwest corner of the main pyramid. They built the ramp like this.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And I excavated. And these are photos

Speaker 1 in my book, Giza and the Pyramids. I excavated from here to her.

Speaker 1 When the Egyptians construct a ramp,

Speaker 1 when they finish building the pyramid,

Speaker 1 they demolish the ramp. They cannot demolish all of it.
They have to leave something in the ground. Okay.
Do you get this? Yes. I excavated from here to her.

Speaker 1 I found in situ remains of the ramp.

Speaker 1 Are there photos of this? Of course, in my book. Okay, let's find the photos of the equipment first.

Speaker 1 You can't find anything?

Speaker 1 I'll show you what I will find. It's in my book.
What did you find? Well, nothing. Nothing?

Speaker 1 How is that not online? That doesn't make any sense. It's in my book, Giza and the Pyramids.

Speaker 1 Maybe we can see

Speaker 1 the book. These are the tombs of the pyramid builders.
Right there. This is the excavation.
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Offer applicable for new customers only. And this is all what I discovered.

Speaker 1 This is my discovery of everything.

Speaker 1 Every piece of sand here tells us about the builder of the pyramid. But let me continue this.

Speaker 1 I will come to you

Speaker 1 the now. Let us, let us,

Speaker 1 if you go to my book, you will find out that I found here the deorite and the flint tools.

Speaker 1 Listen, the now I will come. The stones for building the pyramid came from the plateau.
The casing came from Torah.

Speaker 1 Now we come to how many years Kuf ruled.

Speaker 1 So there is one big discovery happened a few years ago. Are these the tools?

Speaker 1 No, no. This is tools for artists.

Speaker 1 The tools in our book, which is big duorite tools and big flint tools. Big ones.

Speaker 1 And why is this not online?

Speaker 1 Whoever puts it online, it's in my book. Right, but I mean, wouldn't that be everywhere? I mean, that's such a huge archaeological discovery.
It's not. It's because it's everywhere.

Speaker 1 It's not only in the World Cup and only, it's in every site. You have these tools in many sites.
Right, but why aren't these tools online? That's all I'm asking.

Speaker 1 Ask the people online, but they are in remains in my book. Are they in a museum somewhere?

Speaker 1 There is some in the Cairo Museum, yes. So there should be a photograph of them in the museum.
Okay.

Speaker 1 What would Jamie look for?

Speaker 1 But I don't know. I'm just like asking him.
Now I want to come to

Speaker 1 the museum would have

Speaker 1 the Cairo Museum would have those tools? Yes. Okay.
Now,

Speaker 1 three years ago, a major discovery happened for the first time.

Speaker 1 It is the first time that we have written evidence about building the pyramid of Khufu. When did this happen? Three years ago.
Really? It's called the Wadi El-Jarf Papyri. Oh.

Speaker 1 Do you want to know what's in this papyri? I do. This papyri was found in Sinai, in a port belonging to Khufu.

Speaker 1 And inside this port there was caves.

Speaker 1 And inside the caves found remains of boat and this big papyri. It's large, huge.
There it is. That's it, exactly.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what does this say? Now.

Speaker 1 First of all, how old is that?

Speaker 1 4600 years ago. Isn't that amazing?

Speaker 2 And this

Speaker 1 find writing in this. 4,600 years.
So, papyrus was made with animal skin, correct? No,

Speaker 1 of papyrus from the papyri. Right.
What is what is the papyri is just like leaves.

Speaker 1 Okay. Now, but listen to the papyri.
It is a diary of an overseer of the workmen. His name is Mirror.
M-E-R-E-R.

Speaker 1 Okay?

Speaker 1 Mirror is saying,

Speaker 1 I am Sahage in hieroglyphic, means inspector.

Speaker 1 Under me, working 40 workmen.

Speaker 1 I was hired by Khufu to work in his pyramid. This is in hieroglyphic.

Speaker 1 And he said, My big,

Speaker 1 my immediate boss, his name is Diddy.

Speaker 1 Like P. Diddy? Diddy, yes.
Now.

Speaker 1 Twenty years ago, in my excavation, west west of the Great Pyramid

Speaker 1 of Kufu, I discovered 20 tombs. Are these the tools?

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 1 No, this is not the tools. No, no.
The tools are really sharp type of big tools.

Speaker 1 We found some of them. What is that? What is that, Jamie's looking at? What are these?

Speaker 1 This could be. This could the tombs in the lift is like them.

Speaker 1 In the lift here.

Speaker 1 Those tools are. No, no, no, no.
More.

Speaker 1 No, down. No.

Speaker 1 Where?

Speaker 1 You know, here there is two. There is more.
To the left. To the left.
To the left.

Speaker 1 To the left. No.

Speaker 1 Again. What?

Speaker 1 These two tools. You mean up? Down.
What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 The second one. After this one.
That's it. Up.

Speaker 1 That's it. And this one.
Oh, those. Those.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But don't those j look exactly like the other photograph we just had? Those up there. That looks like the heads of the small.
But this was the smalls. I'm talking about big ones.
So that's...

Speaker 1 These are tools for making statues and things like, but not cutting the stones. Oh, I see.
So these are the same kind of tools, though, with the same kind of materials.

Speaker 1 But let me talk about the Bapairi again. Okay.
Because this many people doesn't know about this.

Speaker 1 Then Meller said, My boss's name is Diddy. Twenty years ago, I excavated west of the Great Pyramid of Kufu.
I found 20 tombs, beautiful ones.

Speaker 1 I published all of them, except one small tomb I said is not important.

Speaker 1 Three years ago, I found this is the tomb of Diddy,

Speaker 1 the person that he was the boss of Merr.

Speaker 1 And I published this tomb. You can find this tomb online now.
It's called Diddy's Tomb by Zahir Hawaii, west of the Great Pyramid of Kufu.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 listen, Joe, what Merer said,

Speaker 1 I took my workmen, this is in hieroglyphic, we went to Torah

Speaker 1 to cut the white fine limestone. This sentence means that the pyramid was finished.
And Merer went to bring the stones for the casing. And he said, I'm not alone.

Speaker 1 There is many other gangs are cutting the stones. And Torah is in north and south.
And he said, I divided my gangs to three gangs. One gang to cut the stones.

Speaker 1 And one gang is smoothing the stones. And smoothing the stones with the right tools to face the stones for the casing.

Speaker 1 And after that he said, and the third group

Speaker 1 moving the stones in wooden sledges to a. This is all in the papyri.
In the papyri, to a cargo boat.

Speaker 1 What happened in the Old Kingdom? We have evidence that the River Nile,

Speaker 1 the Egyptians cut to the west of this River Nile, another Nile to be near the pyramid. From this Nile, they cut a canal.

Speaker 1 At the end of the canal, there is a harbor in front of every pyramid. I discovered in my excavation

Speaker 1 in front of Khufu pyramid there is a village called Naslit Seman. In this village

Speaker 1 the people were building houses. Underneath the houses

Speaker 1 we found basalt

Speaker 1 walls. I stopped the construction of the houses and I excavated the whole area.
I found this is the harbor of Khufu and I published this in an article.

Speaker 1 and I excavated in front of the Sphinx temple and I found the harbor of Kefrin and it's published. Now the reason for the canal and the harbor to bring non-local stones granite from Aswan

Speaker 1 alabaster from Middle Egypt durite

Speaker 1 from

Speaker 1 from

Speaker 1 durite from Nubia,

Speaker 1 basalt from Fayyum, white limestone from Torah

Speaker 1 The Egyptian had everything. So they essentially cut a second canal.
They cut a canal just so they can move the stones to where they wanted them. And they discovered all of this.

Speaker 1 And this is published. If you're right.

Speaker 1 And so this was all the casing stones. Exactly.
Right. Is it possible that the casing stones were put on later?

Speaker 1 No, after you finish building the pyramid. Right.

Speaker 1 There is two important things when they finish building the pyramid. I discovered in a site called Abusir, I discovered two scenes.
One scene worked dragging a capstone.

Speaker 1 Above the capstone is a hieroglyphic word called Jam.

Speaker 1 So, where is this?

Speaker 1 Where is this?

Speaker 1 This is in hieroglyphs, the dragging the capstone. Yes.
Can we see this?

Speaker 1 Find out. I don't know if it's internet or not.
What would Jimmy? What would Jamie look for? Look for Zahi Hawai's discovery in Abu Sir.

Speaker 1 How much do you think was lost during the burning of of the Library of Alexandria? A lot, of course. Everything, right? Everything.

Speaker 1 And this is why what I am telling you, based on, I have been excavating in Giza Zhou for the last 57 years.

Speaker 1 I know every piece of sand in the site. And I want to tell you one thing also.

Speaker 1 I am the only Egyptologist who has an open mind. Really? That I reveal.
I always look.

Speaker 1 Yes, I always look at what the public says. And I will tell you about this later.
I will tell you what I found in the pyramid.

Speaker 1 But let me finish this story, and after that, I will come back to tell you how I look at what people say, and I try to

Speaker 1 investigate this.

Speaker 1 And now, Merr said,

Speaker 1 I put the stones on a cargo boat. Okay.

Speaker 1 And we came in the boat to Giza Plateau.

Speaker 1 The workmen took the stones up to the pyramid. We slept overnight at Giza.
I got up early in the morning with my workmen. We went to Totorah.
He made many times talking about that.

Speaker 1 Then he said, I went to Sinai

Speaker 1 to bring copper

Speaker 1 and turquoise.

Speaker 1 But he said, in Sinai, our big boss, his name is Ankaf. We know from text

Speaker 1 that the architect who designed the Great Pyramid, he was Khufu's cousin. His name was Hem Yono.

Speaker 1 Then actually, it seems now that Hem Ionu died, and Ankaf completed the great pyramid and built the second pyramid of his son, Kefrin.

Speaker 1 Then he said,

Speaker 1 I'm working in year 27 of Kufu's reign.

Speaker 1 He mentioned that Kufu was alive in year 27. How long do you think he reigned for? 28 years.
I published an article. I published an article about, you can find this article.

Speaker 1 Why was the age 23? 23 years. Why was that attributed to them? Now, this is a good question.
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Speaker 1 A Egyptologist has a problem when they count the name of the king. Because when the ancient Egyptians counted the cattle, they counted the reign of the king.

Speaker 1 Sometimes they count the cattle every year, sometimes they counted the cattle every two years. Then we make mistakes.
But now we have year 27 of Kofu's reign.

Speaker 1 And we have on the second boat bit that the Jabanese are restoring now, we know when the king die, his son buried him. Then Khufu's son, his name is Jerephre,

Speaker 1 who did not

Speaker 1 respect his father, and I will tell you why, he buried his father in year 28.

Speaker 1 Then we know now for sure that Khufu ruled for twenty-eight years.

Speaker 1 Now

Speaker 1 Miller said something that made me very happy.

Speaker 1 Because twenty-five years ago, I wrote an article to say that Memphis was not the capital of Egypt.

Speaker 1 I said that the king ruled Egypt from the pyramid.

Speaker 1 If the pyramid is at Abrawas, the king rule Egypt from Abrawas.

Speaker 1 If the pyramid is in Giza, Giza, Abu Sayer, Saqqara.

Speaker 1 Then Merer said something. Many people did not believe me when I wrote this article.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 Merer said Khufu lived in his palace at Giza.

Speaker 1 If he lived in a palace at Giza, means with the royal family, the public, and the government.

Speaker 1 And he said that the area that Khufu lived in it, in the pyramid, called Ankh Khufu, in hieroglyphic, means the Kufu lives. This is the name of the city that Khufu lived in it.

Speaker 1 And he and Mirror said, we came to Giza in an area in hieroglyphic called Rasheh.

Speaker 1 And Rasheh means literally mouth of the lake. This could be the entrance of Giza Plateau.

Speaker 1 But what's really strange, he said, it took me almost one day for me and my workmen to up to come to the pyramid. Why? Because Giza entrance was busy.
Every stone coming in has to be counted.

Speaker 1 Every workman has to sign the first letter of his name. And this is why it if you go today to the port of New York, it will take you five hours to enter because it's busy.

Speaker 1 And this is what happened at Giza Plateau. This papyri, in my opinion, is really one of the most important discovery that tells us for the first time about building the pyramid.

Speaker 1 And now we come to the reign of Gufu, 28 years, and now the stones of the Great Pyramid.

Speaker 1 I looked

Speaker 1 everywhere to find out how they counted the stones.

Speaker 1 That people said it's 2,300 salsa blocks.

Speaker 1 I found no evidence.

Speaker 1 It's only when the Arabs came. You know, all the theories that the New Age people say now, it came from the Arabs.

Speaker 1 When the Arabs came and they entered the pyramid, they said all these nonsensical stories about the pyramids. Then I never found any place to tell me how they cut the stones.

Speaker 1 But now we have evidence that the base of the pyramid is 20 feet high of solid rock, no stones.

Speaker 1 In 2010, I brought a team, scientists, from every field, and we recounted the stones based on the new evidence. And we found out that the stones of the pyramid are only

Speaker 1 more than one million.

Speaker 1 And the average height of the limestone is half a ton to two and a half tons.

Speaker 1 So the base of the pyramid is 20 feet high, carved into solid stone. Yes.

Speaker 1 And then the other rocks were placed on top of it.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 I want to come to when you told me about this capstone. Because we did not complete the capstone.
Right, but let's start off with this, though. The base is 20 feet high, and then

Speaker 1 the estimation was 2,300,000, but you think it's far less than that

Speaker 1 because of the new discovery that we found that the base is made of the solid rock. So before they thought the base was individual stones? Yes.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So now that you know that the base is solid rock, that removes 1,300,000 stones that were necessary. Yes.
Got it. So they carved this base knowing they were going to put a pyramid on top of it.

Speaker 1 And what about the subterranean chambers?

Speaker 1 Every king in Egypt is buried underneath the pyramid. Every king, except Khufu

Speaker 1 and his father, Sinephro.

Speaker 1 The only two kings they are not buried underneath is Khufu and his father. If you look at the one chamber underneath, it was cut and built.

Speaker 1 If you go down, it's left unfinished.

Speaker 1 Left unfinished in what way? It was planned to cut it. But they did not complete it.
You can see when you go down that the burial chamber is not finished. Why? Why?

Speaker 1 Because I found out in our research,

Speaker 1 every king is Horus on earth. When the king dies, he become the sun god.

Speaker 1 Okay? Okay. Khufu, in year five,

Speaker 1 he said, I am the sun god.

Speaker 1 And he abandoned the construction of the first

Speaker 1 burial chamber and he built his chamber within the pyramid because he's a God. And that's the queen's chamber, correct? No.
The first one.

Speaker 1 I'm going to come to this chamber later.

Speaker 1 And the second

Speaker 1 evidence that he called his pyramid Akhet Khufu, means the horizon of Khufu. And the only one in the horizon is the sun god.
And the third evidence is something

Speaker 1 that only occurred at Giza.

Speaker 1 The Sphinx and its temple.

Speaker 1 I found that the Sphinx represents Kefrin, the son of Khufu, giving offering with his two paws to his father,

Speaker 1 the sun god Khufu, who rise and sits in this temple. the first sun temple.

Speaker 1 And this is why Khufu's pyramid is unique among the 120 pyramids. And I will tell you what I discovered inside the pyramid now.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 before

Speaker 1 I tell you about what I discovered, I have to complete the scene that I told you. That I found workmen dragging a capstone.

Speaker 1 You remember, you asked me that. We stopped with that.

Speaker 1 Above the capstone, there is a hieroglyphic word called zaim.

Speaker 1 And zaim means white and yellow gold.

Speaker 1 A second scene I found, ladies dancing

Speaker 1 and they called them the Ghener. And the Ghenr are the dance troupe of the king.
My interpretation of these two scenes.

Speaker 1 When the pyramid was finished, the king asked the workmen to put the capstone in the top of the pyramid.

Speaker 1 When they put the capstone in the top of the pyramid, cased with gold,

Speaker 1 the whole country dance and sing because the king became a god. That's what I call the national project of the whole nation.

Speaker 1 The three millions who lived in Egypt in the time of the old kingdom, all of them participated in building the pyramid to make the king as a god.

Speaker 1 This is your theory? Not a theory. No? It's fact.

Speaker 1 It is a fact. The pyramid was the national project.

Speaker 1 No, that's not what I mean. I mean, it's your theory that the capstone was put on.

Speaker 1 It's not a theory. It's based on evidence.
I found the scenes. The papara.
No,

Speaker 1 the papari is something else. What is

Speaker 1 the scene? It's blocks. Blocks.
Limestone blocks. One scene, workmen dragging a capstone with the word jaime.
Is this written in limestone blocks? Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 1 No, it shows the workmen dragging a stone. Shows it where? In the stone that they discovered.
So it's carved into the stone. Exactly.
And the word zeim in hieroglyphic above that. Where is that at?

Speaker 1 It's an abuser, I found it. But are there photographs online? Yes, in my book.

Speaker 1 I don't go online. Who I have to go online? I go to my book.
No, I understand. But for everybody else that doesn't have immediate access to your book.

Speaker 1 Did you find them online?

Speaker 1 It's called the Abos Ser blocks.

Speaker 1 Abosser. A, B, as in boy.

Speaker 1 How do you they got the stones from the king's chamber 500 miles away and put them 120 feet

Speaker 1 up in the ceiling? It's, I told you, if you come today and see how the workmen move 20 tons of granite, you'll understand.

Speaker 1 Workers today. Yes, today, like yesterday.
The same workmen. Okay.
Right, but

Speaker 1 show them the different times, correct? Like, if they're doing it today, they have access to modern machinery. If you don't know, they don't?

Speaker 1 No, it's everything based on the idea of the national project. They want to make this for the king.
I understand the national project now. What I don't understand

Speaker 1 is the physics involved in moving

Speaker 1 80-ton blocks 500 miles through the mountains. If you don't believe in this, it's not that I don't believe.
I want to know inside this block.

Speaker 1 Hold on, hold on. It's not that I don't believe.
I want you to explain to me how you think they did it.

Speaker 1 I explained to you. From 500 miles away, 50 to 80 ton blocks.
blocks.

Speaker 1 This comes through the Nile. You can bring all the stones

Speaker 1 in the mountains, right? No, the quarries, the granite quarries in Aswan, and we have cutting of the obelisks and cutting of the stones and cut of everything in the site.

Speaker 1 And they brought, when the flood comes in July, they bring boats through the flood, they bring houses out of the stones to give the plateau.

Speaker 1 They planned things for the floods, and then they would figure out some sort of a raft system to get them on and then move them that way.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 if

Speaker 1 we now do not believe that this cannot be moved by human beings, okay?

Speaker 1 But on the other side, what I can tell you, inside above these blocks, written the names of the gangs who built the pyramid above the king chamber.

Speaker 1 One of the names, friends of Khufu, I did a 3D few months ago, and we recorded in the five chambers that has this huge blocks. We found two more names of the gangs.

Speaker 1 One name called Those Who Are Connected with the Goddess Walget.

Speaker 1 And written year 13 of Kofu's reign on the third chamber. I took Mr.
Beast with me two months ago.

Speaker 1 I took him and I showed him how these blocks they were written by the workmen before they moved the stones.

Speaker 1 And in the fourth

Speaker 1 room, we have the good gut. Another name was year 13 of Kofu's reign.
This is when they moved the stones. So I understand what you're saying.

Speaker 1 So you're saying that they took these stones, they waited for the flood season, they got these stones on rafts, they moved them down the river, they got them to the site.

Speaker 1 How did they get them 120 feet in the air?

Speaker 1 You know, again, this is the most important thing. This is the national project.
Oh, I understand that

Speaker 1 it was very very valuable.

Speaker 1 I just wondered what technology was used. No, technology.
Well, technology is tools. Technology is levers.

Speaker 1 Whatever they had at the time was

Speaker 1 the huge wooden slides.

Speaker 1 Huge wooden sledges. This is the only way that today we move huge stones.
This is how my workmen moved 20 tons sarcophagus in a tomb.

Speaker 1 How far did they move it?

Speaker 1 They moved it just a few feet away.

Speaker 1 But we have scenes of how workmen move 60 tons statue, how they move with their sledges. Right.
And they draw it. Yeah, I've seen those scenes.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Then we have all this type of scene that the Egyptians show that. Again, this is the national project.
Do you think they wet the ground?

Speaker 1 Like, what did you, do you think that they did something like that to make the ground more slick so they could pull it?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yes.
And then

Speaker 1 are they using sleds? Like, how do they get it?

Speaker 1 Sledges, wooden sledges,

Speaker 1 and then they just

Speaker 1 slowly but surely pulled it into position. We have this in the tombs, these wooden sledges.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 but let me take you now

Speaker 1 to what I began to reveal, the secret of Kufu Pyramid. Okay,

Speaker 1 as I told you again, I always listen to what people say and I try to prove them

Speaker 1 if they are right or not.

Speaker 1 I was interested

Speaker 1 in the Great Pyramid most of my life because I was the inspector of the pyramid, director of I I spent most of my life there.

Speaker 1 Then I closed this pyramid for a year to stop humidity.

Speaker 1 To stop humidity?

Speaker 1 Because every person... All the breathing

Speaker 1 enter inside the pyramid gives about 20 grams of water.

Speaker 1 And this water becomes salt. Then mechanically, I removed the salt.
You had to clean the walls. Exactly.
And after that, I thought, how can I make a ventilation system

Speaker 1 of the pyramid? In the king chamber and the queen chamber, you have this

Speaker 1 tunnel,

Speaker 1 20 by 20 centimeter only.

Speaker 1 Small tunnel. Right.

Speaker 1 Then I thought I should clean these tunnels. Then I can make a ventilation system.
I had no idea of what I'm going to find out. What did you find out?

Speaker 1 Then I hired a German robot.

Speaker 1 And we took the German robot to the king's chamber.

Speaker 1 We are sitting in the king's chamber with a TV screen. And the robot entered in the shaft.

Speaker 1 We found out that the interior of the pyramid,

Speaker 1 the stones were interplugged.

Speaker 1 And this is why, when the Arabs came to Egypt and they said, man first time and time first pyramids,

Speaker 1 then we found out that this shaft went outside.

Speaker 1 Then we put a fan here

Speaker 1 and the fan sucked the air and pushed it in the tunnel and we made a ventilation system in the pyramid.

Speaker 1 So this then discovery of these stones, what was unusual about the way they were placed? What did you say they interlocked? Interblocked. Interblocked? Yes, like what do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 like fingers.

Speaker 1 Okay. So there's like different levels and they all slid in together.

Speaker 1 How they put the stones.

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With each other. Okay.

Speaker 1 But now the most important, then I took the robot to the second chamber. Now we know that the tunnel in the Ferrit chamber are open outside.
Open outside.

Speaker 1 But it's why we have these tunnels in the second chamber. They call it Rungi Aquini Chamber.
Right.

Speaker 1 Then we took the robot to the northern tunnel of the queen chamber. After 60 feet,

Speaker 1 the robot stopped because the tunnel was building

Speaker 1 to the left, and the German robot could not bend. Then we took the robot to the south tunnel.

Speaker 1 The robot went for 200 feet, stopped in front of a door with two copper handles.

Speaker 1 That was the first discovery. Now

Speaker 1 I began to think, how can I find out what's behind this door?

Speaker 1 In 2002,

Speaker 1 I was chosen by the National Geographic as explorer in residence. Were nine explorers.

Speaker 1 With them, with us was Bill Billard, who found Titanic.

Speaker 1 Each explorer had a dream. I told them, I need you to design a robot for me.
I want to find out what's behind this door. And they did make a robot

Speaker 1 and they called it pyramid rover.

Speaker 1 We took the pyramid rover

Speaker 1 and the robot went in the south tunnel and the robot had a drilling on his hand.

Speaker 1 The robot opened one hole,

Speaker 1 one centimeter and one millimeter,

Speaker 1 and sent an optic camera through this hole. We found after 21 centimeters of this door, a second one.

Speaker 1 And the second one has an Iggy shaped like that,

Speaker 1 as if it's hiding something.

Speaker 1 Then after that, we went to the northern tunnel that was bending. We found out it's bending north and south for 24 feet.
And the reason for the bending was to avoid the Grand Gallery.

Speaker 1 At 200 feet, the robot stopped in front of of a third door with two copper handles in the same distance of this one.

Speaker 1 And these doors are very small, right? Very small, twenty by twenty centimeters. Okay.
Now,

Speaker 1 I spent most of my life

Speaker 1 from from

Speaker 1 two thousand two until

Speaker 1 twenty

Speaker 1 twenty four, last year.

Speaker 1 I found a team from England

Speaker 1 and we worked it last year for three seasons.

Speaker 1 Number one,

Speaker 1 I found out

Speaker 1 above

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 king chamber, a big void.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, above the Grand Gallery.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 This void the size of two trucks.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 the second void behind the northern tunnel, another small void.

Speaker 1 Inside this void, we can see hieroglyphic inscriptions. Really? So those are the only hieroglyphics on

Speaker 1 the pyramid.

Speaker 1 And I can show you the footage.

Speaker 1 Do you have the footage here? If you can come to my lecture. Oh, come on.
In Austin. What about right here, right now?

Speaker 1 I can send it to you. Where do you have it? Do you have it on you? In my computer.
Where's your computer? In Las Vegas. Oh, well, fuck.
But I can send it to you before.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I want to show it on the show. Show it in the show.
I can send it to you tomorrow. Okay.
You can send it tomorrow? Yes. Okay.
We'll split it in, folks. Then, tomorrow, I will send it to you.

Speaker 1 Please do. Okay, give me my email.
No. Give me Jamie's email.
Yeah. Give me.

Speaker 1 But you should come and

Speaker 1 can you come and introduce me here in Houston? Excuse me? Can I introduce you in Houston? No, I cannot. Why? Because I'm very busy.
Okay. Fine.
If I had known in advance, I could. Oh, fine.

Speaker 1 Yeah, fine, fine. I, unfortunately, I don't have any free time, Zawi.
Zahi. Zahi.
Zahi. Zawi.
Not Zawi. Zahi.
The now.

Speaker 1 Mr. Hawaz.
The now. What we are going to do.

Speaker 1 So this is the only pyramid. Can I ask you, though?

Speaker 1 This hieroglyphics inside this chamber that you've discovered, these are the only hieroglyphics in the Great Pyramid. Is that correct? No, there is in the five chambers, I told you.

Speaker 1 Oh, in the other chambers? I told you, in the five chambers, now we have five names of the gangs who built the pyramids. And we have these.
These are all recent discoveries? Yes.

Speaker 1 Within how long? How recent?

Speaker 1 This

Speaker 1 void

Speaker 1 was last year, 2024. The hieroglyphic discovery or three months ago.
So all this is very... Isn't that fascinating that you've been studying the pyramids for so long and you're still finding?

Speaker 1 Listen to me, what I'm going to do. What are you going to do? There is a friend of mine.

Speaker 1 His name is Leslie Griffe. Leslie is from Hollywood.
He did with me many live TV shows and he did with me chasing mummies. And Leslie now is working to find a network.

Speaker 1 To come, we need to do this program live. Okay.
I want to show the whole world what I discovered inside the pyramid. That we are not hiding anything.
I want to show them the hieroglyphic.

Speaker 1 Why do you always feel like you're in battle with people? Because

Speaker 1 they attack me. Go to them.
I don't understand that people.

Speaker 1 I'm not in a battle with people. They're in the battle with me.
I understand that. I understand that.
But I'm giving you an opportunity to just lay things out.

Speaker 1 You don't have to argue with people that aren't here.

Speaker 1 I'm not arguing. Fuck those people.
I'm not arguing. I'm not saying telling the people.

Speaker 1 I'm just fascinated by the discovery. It's

Speaker 1 so what does it look like? These hieroglyphs. I know you can read hieroglyphs.
Is that signs? You can read that stuff. Yes, but the signs are not clear.
It's not clear? No.

Speaker 1 We need to do more investigation in September. Is it a difficulty in seeing inside there? Because

Speaker 1 when the Egyptians write inside the five chambers, for example, they don't write hieroglyphic. They write a cursive hieroglyphic.
It's called the hieratic.

Speaker 1 And this hieratic, Joe, it's very difficult. to read from outside.
What does that look like? It's cursive of the hieroglyphic. Let me see what that looks like, Jamie.
That's fascinating.

Speaker 1 That's fascinating. No, this is hieroglyphic.
This is hieroglyphic. That's hieroglyphic.
We talk about hieroglyphic. On the right, on the right-hand side, it says hieroglyphic.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 Look at the one and the right, this hieratic. Okay.
Then it's very difficult. It's so beautiful.
Yeah. What a beautiful language.
Like the way it's written, it looks like art.

Speaker 1 Then, Joe, what we're going to do before the end of this year,

Speaker 1 we are going to show

Speaker 1 what's inside the five the this void's life. Can you you keep that up Jamie?

Speaker 1 These these symbols that look like

Speaker 1 like make that larger please these symbols to the far left that were right below Jamie's cursor right there like what are those supposed to be? They are signs. But what does it mean?

Speaker 1 Look this it looks like a device.

Speaker 1 The one down means sish

Speaker 1 for

Speaker 1 a determinant of a scribe. What is the one that his cursor that

Speaker 1 looks like a stop sign? It's for a scribe. A scribe.
Yeah. What does it mean?

Speaker 1 scribe. It means a scribe.
Sish. Okay, I understand.
So, and then the other one on the hieratic, that's the cursive version of the scribe. Now, I don't I'm not that expert in hieratic.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Because hieratic is very cursive. I understand, but I think this

Speaker 1 is showing that, right? I know. But we, if you look at the signs in the five chambers that I will send it to you tomorrow, it's very difficult to read.

Speaker 1 But you can see they are hieratic, cursive signs. Got it.
But the most important that we are going to show this live.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Okay, so people don't even know, and you're going to show all this stuff live.
We will do it live. But the other thing,

Speaker 1 we have another team called Scan Pyramids Team. They are scientists from Japan, France, and Egypt.

Speaker 1 I am the scientific director who really

Speaker 1 if they discover something, they come to me. I have to discuss it with them.
And they found. You know,

Speaker 1 the pyramid. Yes.

Speaker 1 You have the entrance that the people use now,

Speaker 1 is the entrance that the Arabs opened. That's in the north face, correct? Exactly.
Above that is a mini chamber. Okay.

Speaker 1 The team are using very sophisticated techniques like ultrasound, infrared.

Speaker 1 With these techniques, you do not need any more to drill.

Speaker 1 You can really see what's behind the door. And this is really what I'm using right now.
Then they came to me

Speaker 1 and they said, behind the main entrance of the pyramid, there is a corridor.

Speaker 1 And they showed to me this corridor clear

Speaker 1 in the five techniques that they're using. But I'll tell you why I have to see it.
Let's go up there. We went up there and they sent

Speaker 1 an optic camera through

Speaker 1 the stones. And they found,

Speaker 1 I could look at the corridor, 30 feet long,

Speaker 1 8 feet wide, topped with chevron shape. I think you can see that in the internet, the corridor behind the main entrance of the pyramid.
Can you get it? It's in the internet, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 This void above the Grand Gallery?

Speaker 1 The size of two trucks. What do you think that is? I have no idea.
I'm just telling you what I found. And

Speaker 1 have.

Speaker 1 This was the great pyramid. I did more work on the third pyramid with the same techniques and the second pyramid.
This is the void. Okay, that's it.
Wow, that's incredible.

Speaker 1 And I think, and bring the other big void above the Grand Gallery. I think you'll see it also.

Speaker 1 So find the void above the Grand Gallery, Jamie.

Speaker 1 So it's two trucks.

Speaker 1 The size of two trucks. The size of two semi-trucks.
And do you have any idea what the answer is?

Speaker 1 I will tell you about my theory. Please do.

Speaker 1 I think it's here.

Speaker 1 So that's the void. Yeah.
Now. And it's that shape.
It's in that direction, so it's at a slope?

Speaker 1 It's above the Grand Gallery. That's it.
That's it. Yeah.
The scanned pyramid project.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 I tell you my theory. Please do.

Speaker 1 We have a story written in a hieroglyphic, but not at the time of Khufu. It's after Khufu.

Speaker 1 The story it's written in a papyri is called Khufu and the Magician.

Speaker 1 It says that Khufu was staying in his palace

Speaker 1 and he was very upset.

Speaker 1 He was not happy.

Speaker 1 And his son came to him, Your Majesty, why are you unhappy?

Speaker 1 He said, I'm searching for the secret of the Gattoth, the God of wisdom. Then I can design my burial chamber in the pyramid.
Then his son told him, I know a magician. His name is Jiddi.

Speaker 1 He knows how to cut the head of a man off and put it back.

Speaker 1 And he knows the secret of the Gatoth, the God of wisdom. He knows how to cut the head of a man off and put it back, but is the guy still alive? Is that what he's saying? No,

Speaker 1 this is what the son is telling his father. I understand that.
That Jiddi can do that. A lot of people can cut a guy's head off.
But listen to the story.

Speaker 1 This is the story.

Speaker 1 Then the king told his son, bring this to me.

Speaker 1 They describe him as 100 years old and he drinks 1,000 beer.

Speaker 1 Jidi came in front of the king. And Khufu told him, I heard that you can cut the head of a man off.
He said, yes, Your Majesty. He said, do it.

Speaker 1 He said, Jiddi said, I cannot do it with a human being.

Speaker 1 He said, okay, I will bring you a prisoner.

Speaker 1 Jiddi said, a prisoner is a human being.

Speaker 1 Then he told, he brought him a goose.

Speaker 1 He took the head of the goose up in front of everyone.

Speaker 1 And the head came back, and the goose was running in front of everyone.

Speaker 1 That's written in the story. Then

Speaker 1 I come back to what's believed that now.

Speaker 1 And the king told him, I want to know the secret of the Gad Toth to design my burial chamber. He told him that

Speaker 1 this secret will not be in your hand. It will be in the hand of another people who rule Egypt.
Khufu was very upset.

Speaker 1 So he wouldn't give him the secret because he said that secret won't just be in your hands. It'll get into other people's hands.
Then the king.

Speaker 1 The king was unhappy. He told them, Don't worry, Your Majesty, because you will rule and your sons

Speaker 1 and your grandson.

Speaker 1 Now, about magic. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you believe in religion or not? Yeah. Okay.
Do you know about Judaism? Sure, a little bit. When God told Moses,

Speaker 1 when Moses met God and God told them to go to Egypt to meet the Pharaoh, and God told them, remember, the Pharaohs are highly in magic.

Speaker 1 They will beat you. Then God taught Moses how to be more in magic than the Pharaoh.
And you remember when he heard the stick.

Speaker 1 And the stick became a snake, I think.

Speaker 1 And Moses brought more snakes

Speaker 1 to swollen what the Pharaoh did. Then we know from books, from Judaism from the beginning, that the ancient Egyptians were really highly in magic.
Then we can believe.

Speaker 1 Do you think that that magic might have had something to do with how they constructed the pyramids?

Speaker 1 No?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 You don't but but if you believe that they had enough magic to take a goose's head and put it back on it's still alive That's magic. Yeah, wouldn't they use that magic for other things?

Speaker 1 But we have you believe believe in magic. I do, of course.
You do. You do believe in magic.
So you believe that someone could take someone's head off, put it back on.

Speaker 1 It's written. Okay, then it must be true.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What is this? Someone's going to kill a dove?

Speaker 1 It's a magic trick. It's going to decapitate birds and stuff.
Oh.

Speaker 1 Put it back together.

Speaker 1 I was just reading it. Apparently in the trick that he did it, he put the head on the other side of the room.
and made him come back together. He did it to a calf and a different animal also.

Speaker 1 Now, what really I want to tell you now. That person's magic, too.

Speaker 1 Now can make us parameter. What I want to show you that I'm not a person.
What do you think magic is?

Speaker 1 Magic is magic. What do you mean?

Speaker 1 Well, how does it work? I have no idea.

Speaker 1 What do you mean by how it works? Well, I mean, how does someone do something like that? I have no idea. We have to go back.

Speaker 1 We have to go back.

Speaker 1 We have to go back

Speaker 1 to 4,600 years ago. And do you think a lot of this information is what was lost in the burning of the library of Alexandria? Of course.

Speaker 1 Because this is some of it, but still unbelievably detailed recognition. But still, also, you know, because I will tell you, why

Speaker 1 we do not have any evidence

Speaker 1 about Khufu, temples, and things like that. Because what happened,

Speaker 1 the ancient Egyptian believed that a pharaoh should be a male.

Speaker 1 A pharaoh cannot be a female.

Speaker 1 Anyone who changed the religious belief, they hate him.

Speaker 1 Hatshepsut, when she became a pharaoh, they hated her and they destroyed her monuments.

Speaker 1 Khufu, when he changed his cult to be a sun god,

Speaker 1 in the first intermediate period, they destroyed his monuments, the temples, the statues. The only statue of that king was found in Upper Egypt, not at Giza.

Speaker 1 Even in the temple of his sons, there were 23 statues. They smashed the statues.
A smashing was a sign of revenge.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 do you have any question about Khu pyramid before I switch to the Sphinx?

Speaker 1 Well, I'm fascinated by a lot of aspects of Khufu's pyramid. Well, one of the big ones that's come up very recently that I'm sure you're aware of is

Speaker 1 these

Speaker 1 satellite radar, was it called? Tomographa, what is it called? Tomographic? Where they think that there's these pillars underneath the structure. Okay.
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Speaker 1 I investigated this.

Speaker 1 First of all,

Speaker 1 these two scholars from Italy

Speaker 1 have never been in Egypt. They have never worked in the pyramids before.
Right.

Speaker 1 They're using satellite information. Number two,

Speaker 1 they published their article in a journal.

Speaker 1 This journal does not send their article to the freeze. You pay a fee to publish the article in your responsibility.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Number three,

Speaker 1 I am not a scientist.

Speaker 1 I took

Speaker 1 these techniques that they used and I gave it to expertise.

Speaker 1 And they said

Speaker 1 these techniques cannot show

Speaker 1 underneath a solid rock

Speaker 1 of almost 600 feet down. No way.

Speaker 1 How why can't they?

Speaker 1 They said this degree agreement cannot show that. But these scientists are saying they can.
Do you know about the Osiris shaft? How they've got a

Speaker 1 covered it. Yeah, you did, right? But do you know that they use this tomographic?

Speaker 1 No!

Speaker 1 No, I am the one who found it.

Speaker 1 No, I understand. You found it.
But they also discovered it. They showed that it exists using the same technique.
No!

Speaker 1 No!

Speaker 1 This is wrong.

Speaker 1 This is not true at all.

Speaker 1 I can tell you how I found it.

Speaker 1 How can I find it on that? I'm not saying that you didn't find it. It's under the paper, Signature Aperture Radar Doppler Tomography by Filippo Bondi.

Speaker 1 And if you scroll down, Jamie, you'll see an image. And this image is of the Osiris shaft, which shows that they got an accurate depiction of that from space.
That's not true. From satellite.

Speaker 1 It's not true. So what are you saying that they're lying? They're lying here.
They're completely lying.

Speaker 1 But if they're showing, using these techniques, things that we know that you discovered that absolutely exist. Now,

Speaker 1 these techniques, as I told you,

Speaker 1 scientists

Speaker 1 said that these techniques cannot show 600 feet under the pyramid. The Auseri shaft that they found was only 50 feet.
Right, but it's showing at least for 50 feet that this is accurate.

Speaker 1 What makes you believe those scientists rather than these guys from Italy? Because these the s because the scientists are scientists. Well, these are scientists as well.

Speaker 1 They are not showing their techniques carefully. They have not.
What do you mean they're not showing their techniques?

Speaker 1 Take the techniques that they said and show it to any scientist. No one, no one can tell you this is accurate.

Speaker 1 I asked

Speaker 1 every person who knows about radar, ultrasound, all the people working with me,

Speaker 1 the scan pyramid project, they said this is bullshit. It cannot happen at all.
Now, tell me.

Speaker 1 So, you're telling me that these scientists that are proclaiming the capabilities of these satellite tomography devices that are saying that they can

Speaker 1 see kilometers into the ground with this stuff? That's not true. I did.
Are you sure? I did.

Speaker 1 Do you understand the technology? No, not me. But you're just listening to other people.
Scientists who are in this field.

Speaker 1 Have you talked to these scientists that are saying that they have these discoveries?

Speaker 1 I sent, I made a press release.

Speaker 1 But did you talk to?

Speaker 1 I did not.

Speaker 1 Why not? Because they did not talk to me. How can I find them? I made you willing to talk to them.
Of course, I am. I will connect you to them? Yes, okay.
I will connect you to them.

Speaker 1 I'm just interested if new technology becomes available and they figure out a way to look into the ground and you discover things, especially if they discover the Osiris shaft and it turns to actually...

Speaker 1 They did not discover the Osiris shaft again. You discovered it, but they use their technology to show an accurate depiction of the interior of the Osiris shaft.

Speaker 1 The Osiris shaft is a very short. Is that true? No, it's not.
The Osiris shaft. The images that we showed.

Speaker 1 The Osiris shaft is known to everyone. Right.
It can be seen by the ship. When they turn their equipment on the Osiris shaft, it shows the actual interior.
Maybe, I don't know, but this is 50 feet.

Speaker 1 If you look at it again,

Speaker 1 I understand, but if it can go 50 feet, why can't it go 600 feet? Now am at again,

Speaker 1 I am not a scientist. Right, so why are you giving it though? I gave what they published to a scientist, and they said that's not true.
But those are

Speaker 1 wrong all the time,

Speaker 1 typically ones that are biased. Then what I did, I made a brief release

Speaker 1 explaining my point. Yes.
And I said,

Speaker 1 My work

Speaker 1 of the second pyramid, that the base of the pyramid is 28 feet of solid rock.

Speaker 1 And there is no way that anything can be happened in the solid rock. And I explained.
I think what they're saying is it's underneath the solid rock. Correct.
Let me finish.

Speaker 1 And I said, your techniques that you published in this magazine is not

Speaker 1 refreed by scientists. You just published it.
And number three,

Speaker 1 the team that working in Giza with all these new techniques They said this is wrong they and I and they know the team that's working in Giza with all these techniques. What do you mean?

Speaker 1 We have the scan pyramid team. Right.
They're working but you understand this is different technology. I understand but they know about this technology.
But have they used this technology?

Speaker 1 They said this technology cannot work, cannot show six hundred feet under the pyramid at all. This is what they said.

Speaker 1 And this is why if the Italians were confident, they could contact me.

Speaker 1 I'm the pyramid expert that anyone should. Well, we'll make sure that happens.
But listen, if the stone is 20 feet thick, the solid stone at the base, that's correct, right?

Speaker 1 And you said Osiris shaft is 50 feet, that means it can see past 20 feet, right? But how can it see through the stone and see

Speaker 1 what they're showing? But the Osiris

Speaker 1 is a bit more likely.

Speaker 1 The Osiris shaft is open. Right.
It's not covered to see. I understand.
You can go and you see the Osiris shaft down.

Speaker 1 Everyone can see it. But the interior is not open.
And the interior is not open. But you can see the interior.

Speaker 1 But you can't see it to the exact dimensions the way these tomographic images show it, right?

Speaker 1 If they're using this technology to go 50 feet under the ground and get through the picture of the Osiris shaft. I am not a scientist.
I understand so, but this is my question. All the expertise.

Speaker 1 Why would you dismiss it if you haven't looked under there?

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 I told you, it is not me who can dismiss this. What does it say, Jim? This is the link to the art, the original article, I believe.
There's their names. The very first sentence says that

Speaker 1 the penetrating action of electromagnetic waves inside solid bodies, the capability to observe these distributed targets is precluded. And then they had to come up with an experimental

Speaker 1 says experimental results are estimated by processing the SAR images into something

Speaker 1 else.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I think that's the disconnect I'm hearing. Yeah, I don't understand the technology, but my question is:

Speaker 1 we know how spectacular the pyramids are. We know how spectacular just the base of it, the fact that it's carved into solid rock.

Speaker 1 Why would you not think that maybe other spectacular things exist even? I am not, I told you,

Speaker 1 I am not

Speaker 1 this type knows about the science. I consulted the team,

Speaker 1 the top in the world, from Japan, France and Egypt. Who are these people? They are the Scan Pyramid team.

Speaker 1 Okay. The Scan Pyramid.
Yeah. The ones that found the

Speaker 1 chamber above. And they are working with me.
And we found many other things in the second pyramid and the third pyramid. And we published this.
We just published an article last week.

Speaker 1 Then what I am saying, if these techniques that these two Italians are correct,

Speaker 1 the only people who really can tell you it's correct or not are the scan pyramid people, not me. But the scan pyramid people, aren't they using different technology? But they know about technology.

Speaker 1 They are the top scientists in the world.

Speaker 1 I have to believe them, not the two Italians.

Speaker 1 And if the Italians are really correct, they could come to talk to us, not me. Well, to talk to me and others.

Speaker 1 I will definitely try to connect you with those people because I know that Graham Hancock and Brian Mararescu have been in contact with those people.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they're open-minded about it. They don't know what's going on down there, but these images are repeated over and over and over again.
Fine. But they're fascinating, either way.
Okay.

Speaker 1 The

Speaker 1 whole

Speaker 1 one of the fascinating things about

Speaker 1 Egypt to me is

Speaker 1 the fact that it's not just so much more advanced in terms of construction than anywhere else in the world, but that it's

Speaker 1 still to this day,

Speaker 1 nothing even close has ever been even attempted to this day.

Speaker 1 What do you think was going on back then as far as their capabilities and their understanding that led them to do something so spectacular that other people 4,500 years ago?

Speaker 1 Again, the belief of the afterlife built Egypt. Right.
But they also had to have

Speaker 1 an understanding of engineering and construction and design. To do this belief of the afterlife, to build a pyramid, as I told you, this was a national project of the European Union.

Speaker 1 No, I understand it's a national project. It's a project, but they have to acknowledge it.
You can talk about this pyramid if it exists alone.

Speaker 1 When you come to Egypt and you go through time, you will see that everything gradually,

Speaker 1 there is no gap that you can

Speaker 1 What do you mean by that? There is no gap for anyone to think something different than the belief of the Egyptians.

Speaker 1 I don't think anybody's saying that. Oh, yeah.
Well, maybe some people are. Some people do.
But I mean, it's all the Egyptians, obviously. It was in Egypt.
I mean, it's the Egyptians that made it.

Speaker 1 Yes. It's pretty obvious.

Speaker 1 That just seems obvious. Then if you believe it, I'm happy.
I'm happy to hear this from you. Yeah, well, I just think whenever people say it's aliens, or like, where's the proof of that?

Speaker 1 Exactly. Also, they built a lot of spectacular things.
Like, no ifs, ands, or buts. Just

Speaker 1 the statues, just the faces of the pharaohs with incredible symmetry. This is why I want really, I want, since you are interested in Egypt, we would like to invite you to come to Egypt.

Speaker 1 I want to come. I just, it's for me,

Speaker 1 we are willing to invite you. I will.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 tell me when. Okay.
And I will arrange everything for you. Okay, we'll hook it up.
But now, I want to come to the Sphinx also. Okay.
Can we talk about the Sphinx? Yes, please.

Speaker 1 Now, you know, when I was young,

Speaker 1 I was met by the Edgar Casey

Speaker 1 son. The psychic guy.
Huron Casey. Yeah.
And Huron Casey was the son of Edgar Casey. I was young.
I really do not know what this casey had. But

Speaker 1 when he came to Egypt and talked about me, about his father,

Speaker 1 you know about Edgar Casey. Yeah.
Okay, then it's. He had a vision that there was a chamber underneath the Sphinx's power.
Underneath the raipo of the Sphinx, there is a chamber.

Speaker 1 And he he envisioned that, correct? Yes, and this is why I'm going to Virginia Beach to give a talk.

Speaker 1 One of the cities in my tour now is Virginia Beach. Why? Because

Speaker 1 when

Speaker 1 people began to tell me there is something inside the Sphinx, I really, as I told you, I have an open mind and I did search.

Speaker 1 I found inside the Sphinx four tunnels.

Speaker 1 One behind the stela, they call it dreamy stela, between the two bows of the sphinx. And the second one

Speaker 1 behind the head in the top.

Speaker 1 Right, there's actually a door in the top of the head now. No, no, no.

Speaker 1 Just a tunnel. A tunnel.
25 feet. Isn't it closed off, though? No, yeah, it's closed.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 there's like a door on the top of it. It's not a door, door, no.
A lid? It's just a tunnel.

Speaker 1 Okay. But it's closed off.

Speaker 1 You cannot go up to the Sphinx. That's why we have to cover it because it will take rubbish and guards.
Well, that's the top. That's what I'm talking about.
Isn't that the top of it? Is this a Sphinx?

Speaker 1 Yes, that's it. Okay, that's a lid, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 We covered it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But we covered it to protect it from the sun.
I understand. But it's not a door.
Okay. It's a lid.
The third tunnel that I found

Speaker 1 in the back. Now, Edgar Casey, he had this vision that there was some hall of information.
I know, but I'm going to come to this now.

Speaker 1 But I'm talking to you about the tunnels now.

Speaker 1 And the third one is in the tail.

Speaker 1 The fourth one

Speaker 1 was opened in 1927

Speaker 1 by a French name is Monsieur Beres. And I do have

Speaker 1 photos of workmen inside the Sphinx.

Speaker 1 We found

Speaker 1 these four tunnels are published.

Speaker 1 An article, scientific article. I found in Situ,

Speaker 1 in all the four tunnels of pottery

Speaker 1 in Situ to prove that these tunnels were opened on dynasty twenty-five, five hundred BC

Speaker 1 as in the late period. When the Egyptians saw the Sphinx, they thought there is something hidden underneath.

Speaker 1 And they dug and they found nothing. Now,

Speaker 1 we come to the Edgar Casey and what people believe, because we had

Speaker 1 Jean-Antonouette and we had

Speaker 1 many New Age people who believe there is something hidden underneath the Sphinx. And they used to tell me, We need your permission to what? To drill.

Speaker 1 I said, How can I let someone who's not an archaeologist, who's not a scientist, to drill. No way.

Speaker 1 But recently, I found out the rise of the water table in front of the Sphinx. And I was really afraid that the water could damage the Sphinx.

Speaker 1 And I brought a team from Cairo University and we did drill

Speaker 1 30

Speaker 1 to 35 feet underneath the Sphinx, everywhere.

Speaker 1 And I do have photos

Speaker 1 of everywhere under the Sphinx.

Speaker 1 The Sphinx is a solid rock or a living rock, and there is nothing underneath. So there's no tunnels.
No tunnels.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Okay.
I told you what I was saying. What do you think about Robert Schock and his theory about the temple and the erosion outside of the Sphinx? That it's water erosion.

Speaker 1 When Schock

Speaker 1 said that,

Speaker 1 okay,

Speaker 1 we brought through the American Research Center

Speaker 1 a scientist from

Speaker 1 Louisville University. I don't remember his name now.

Speaker 1 And we

Speaker 1 gave him what Robert Schock. You know what Robert Schoch said? It's not a theory.
It's a theory of a new age guy who talked about this before. And Jean-Anton West brought

Speaker 1 I don't remember who.

Speaker 1 Then

Speaker 1 we gave this guy from Louisville University. he was an Indian American who really studied he came to the Sphinx and he worked with us for a season.

Speaker 1 And he came and we published many articles that the erosion that you see outside and inside the Sphinx is from wind and not from water.

Speaker 1 Now

Speaker 1 what Shock want to say that this is dated back fifteen thousand years ago. I agree.

Speaker 1 Okay, if I came here and I dug the Sphinx,

Speaker 1 I will leave something.

Speaker 1 Then what I did, we dug an area northeast of the Sphinx.

Speaker 1 I found level, old kingdom, middle kingdom,

Speaker 1 new kingdom, Roman. Nothing underneath.
Then this New Age people say that the head of the Sphinx is very small comparing to the body.

Speaker 1 Yes. Why?

Speaker 1 If you take all the casing stones away from the Sphinx, you'll find exactly here

Speaker 1 the Sphinx

Speaker 1 and now this

Speaker 1 and another part like this. In between, there is a hollow.
Remember, I told you that Giza Plateau is

Speaker 1 divided to three levels. Level one and two is very bad stones.
Can be seen to that chest of the Sphinx. Level three, they carved the head from level three.

Speaker 1 Then when the Egyptian carved the head to represent the king Kefrin with the copra,

Speaker 1 the royal head remes, they began to make

Speaker 1 a loyal body.

Speaker 1 Then what they did, they filled this hollow

Speaker 1 between the two Sphinx pieces with stones. And they covered the whole body of the Sphinx with stones.
And they did the modeling of the lion body on the covering stones.

Speaker 1 And this is why the head is very small comparing the body.

Speaker 1 I think the head was made first and then the body was made later. Exactly.
But if that's the case, why is the body so much more eroded than the head?

Speaker 1 I told you the body, it is a part of the bad stones. Bad stones.
So the top one is the horse stones. Exactly.
So there is a different density to the stones.

Speaker 1 That's why the stone and the the Sphinx's head is intact and the different

Speaker 1 body

Speaker 1 it's level it's level three

Speaker 1 so it's a different kind of stone exactly of the body and this why because there's layers to it all and some of the layers are more dense

Speaker 1 to make a lion body they couldn't the only way is to cover the body with stones and do the modeling of the lion body on the covering stones

Speaker 1 can we take two minutes rest yeah sure you want to take a break yes to go to the Sphinx. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, go to the bathroom. You know where it is? Yes.
Just go outside, take a left. We're back.

Speaker 1 The Sphinx.

Speaker 1 Let's pick up where we left off. So you were saying that these

Speaker 1 other experts that looked at it didn't agree that it was water erosion and said that they think that it was wind.

Speaker 1 So what John Anthony West and what Graham Hancock and what Robert Chock and all these different people are trying to allude to is that perhaps

Speaker 1 there was even older stuff that was in Egypt and that the things that you're seeing that are 2500 BC, those are even more recent than the older stuff. This episode is brought to you by Tommy John.

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Speaker 1 Tell me about Zeptepe.

Speaker 1 What's Zeptepepe? What's this? You never heard about.

Speaker 1 Have you heard about the like? You know about the Kings list, right? The old kings list that goes back 30,000 whatever years. Who said that? You never seen it.
It's not in hieroglyphs.

Speaker 1 This is not true. It's not true.
No.

Speaker 1 This is a speculation from people who knows nothing about history. There is nothing king list dated back 30,000 years ago at all.
So why do people keep saying that? Because they don't know.

Speaker 1 It's speculation. Give me one evidence of that.

Speaker 1 The first king list dated back to Dynasty 5. Only.

Speaker 1 I was reading that people were saying that it was myth, that the king's list, even though there is like some hieroglyphics of ancient kings that these are just mythical tales this is not true there is no at all

Speaker 1 a name that you told me i never heard of this name i am an egyptologist working in egypt for the last 57 years i never heard of this king list at all never never at all you never even heard of it who i have to hear about it because it's not true i don't want to waste my time and things like this I am a person.

Speaker 1 Give me a fact. So, tell me what is this.
In Egyptian, Zeptepi refers to the first time or the first occasion. Who said that?

Speaker 1 This is an AI. It refers to a mythical golden age of Egypt where gods lived on earth and civilization was in its infancy.

Speaker 1 This period is often associated with the beginning of creation and the establishment of societal structures.

Speaker 1 You've never heard of that before? No, and this is not true. What do you mean it's not true? I mean,

Speaker 1 I'm getting this off of. It never happened at all.
Okay, I'm not saying it happened. I'm just saying that this is something that's referred to.

Speaker 1 It never be, I never heard about it. It is not true.
It is not existed at all. Even if it doesn't exist, the myth of it exists.
I don't.

Speaker 1 Listen, Joel, why do I have to go to a myth of people creating stories? If you go to Wikipedia, I don't care about Wikipedia. I understand.

Speaker 1 I care about what I see in my eyes as an archaeologist or a virologist.

Speaker 1 The world was said to emerge from an infinite, lifeless sea,

Speaker 1 when the sun rose for the first time in a distant period known as Zeptepi, the first occasion.

Speaker 1 Different myths attributed to the creation of different gods, the set of eight primordial deities called Ogdod, the contemplative deity Pata,

Speaker 1 and the mysterious transcendent god Amun. While describing these different cosmologies completed or competed to some extent, in other ways.

Speaker 1 They were complementary in different aspects of Egyptian understanding of creation. It's the Egyptian creation myth.
Fine. You've never heard of that before? Never heard of that before.

Speaker 1 That seems strange that you didn't hear about that before.

Speaker 1 Listen, so I've heard of it before. Fine, you can hear about it.
But I mean, I just found it on the list.

Speaker 1 It's a new age theory. It's a new age? Yes.
Listen to me. I know,

Speaker 1 and any Egyptologist who studies Egyptology in the States here, you have universities in UCLA and you have Berkeley and you have Jean Hopkins and you have every

Speaker 1 there is no every Egyptologist here study languages and archaeology.

Speaker 1 No one

Speaker 1 can

Speaker 1 answer what you are talking about. This is hallucination.
I'm sorry. This is not true.
It's a speculation from people. But never in Egypt we know the prehistory of Egypt.

Speaker 1 We know the pre-dynastic of Egypt. We know the beginning of civilization.
We know every

Speaker 1 there is no gap in anything that can lit some things like that. And this is why I never heard of it and I don't want to hear about it.
You don't want to hear about it? No, why?

Speaker 1 Because there is no evidence. I am a a scientist.
I believe on what's written in front of me and I believe of a scene that I can see. But I don't believe on theories like this.

Speaker 1 Tell me where is this found and where it is and who published it. What is the scientist who published it? What is the anthropologist who talked about it? I'd like to know.
That's why I'm asking you.

Speaker 1 I've never heard of it. Well, I'm shocked that you haven't at least heard of it and dismissed it before.
I think that's who you are.

Speaker 1 Because it's just a, I think it's a part of the creation myth.

Speaker 1 I know, but it's not true. I received many theories every day.
My mind, Joe now, is really cannot cannot stand all these theories, all of it. It's too much for me.
It's too much for me. Got it.

Speaker 1 See if you can find anything on that, Jamie, where that myth came from. I'm working on it.
I think I know. Yeah?

Speaker 1 Is it a Buval thing?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 What I just found is that it came from a... Who's Bufal?

Speaker 1 Buffal is not a scientist. No, I'm just.
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 Those people, Yanni,

Speaker 1 when someone came to you with a theory, theory, he has to have an Egyptology background. He has to write a scientific article.
We write all what we discover.

Speaker 1 We write articles about them for people to read and criticize and give us opinion. But I can go to theories like this

Speaker 1 that has no basis.

Speaker 1 What do you base the dates on? Do you base it on carbon isotopes? No, we don't. We base dating on the evidence that we discover.
Right, but

Speaker 1 it is based on carbon, right? No.

Speaker 1 I don't believe in carbon date 14 at all. You don't? No.
Why not? Carbon date 14 never gives an accurate dating. And this is why I believe, you know, when you discover something,

Speaker 1 if you discover a cemetery,

Speaker 1 there is two types of datings. One called absolute

Speaker 1 dating.

Speaker 1 Means that in this cemetery you have a name of a king. and a date.
Mean this is absolute.

Speaker 1 But if you discover another cemetery and has no dates, then the best thing that we do is to find the artifacts in this cemetery and try to compare it with other dated cemetery.

Speaker 1 And you give a date for this. But you don't believe in carbon dioxide.
I don't believe in carbon 14 at all. And it's not working in Egypt until today.

Speaker 1 I have been

Speaker 1 excavating also in the Vale of the Kings. And I discovered major important things that we can talk about.
So if you're going back to the middle of the case,

Speaker 1 I used radar

Speaker 1 in all my excavations. What do you mean? And I never had a result by radar.
And carbon date 14,

Speaker 1 people use it when there is no date. But wait a minute, you use radar to date things? How? No, I use radar to discover things.
Right. But what do you use to date them?

Speaker 1 I dated, as I told you, two methods of dating.

Speaker 1 Most of the dating that for me now in in Luxor

Speaker 1 is based on evidence. Like I discovered the Golden City.
It's a major, big, large cemetery, uh uh

Speaker 1 large settlement, a city. And you know, this city was chosen

Speaker 1 the most important discovery in the world of year twenty twenty-one because this is the first time that we have a big, large city to tell us about the people who made this civilization.

Speaker 1 So, how do you know how old the city is? Exactly. In the city, we discovered the names everywhere of King Amin Hutub III, who was the father of Eknatun.

Speaker 1 Inside the city, we found many statutes of his queen, Queen T.

Speaker 1 We found inscriptions about dried meat stored to celebrate the third set festival of Imul Hatub III.

Speaker 1 We found nine royal workshops in the city. Then the city tells us about the golden age of that king.

Speaker 1 It is dated by pottery, by hieroglyphic inscription, by many things.

Speaker 1 But I'm curious as to why you're skeptical about carbon dating, because I think carbon dating is generally accepted as being

Speaker 1 accurate within a certain framework. It is, but but I never used it.
And many people

Speaker 1 are very rare to use it in Egypt. Because in Egypt, mainly we have absolute chronology.
We have absolute dating based on inscriptions.

Speaker 1 Right, but I thought it was used in Egypt, like to measure wood that was in mortar

Speaker 1 to date the Great Pyramid to 2500 BC. No,

Speaker 1 that was an experiment to live the pyramid. I think it was about 2009,

Speaker 1 and it's not working. But I didn't see the result.

Speaker 1 You haven't seen a result on carbon testing of the mortar of the Great Pyramid? No, but the mortar, you can't.

Speaker 1 One thing,

Speaker 1 the mortar

Speaker 1 between the stones. Right.

Speaker 1 This mortar, like

Speaker 1 if you take a piece of stone from the pyramid and you try to take curb 14,

Speaker 1 this piece of stone could be thousands of years in the quarry. It cannot date the pyramid.
How can you date? Hold on, hold on. You don't date stone.
I'm saying if you date mortar,

Speaker 1 how can you say accurately that this mortar is dated to the same time of building the pyramid? Well, you can't, actually. That's the argument is that there is probably repairs done, right?

Speaker 1 Of the pyramid? Yes. No, of the great pyramid.
There is no evidence

Speaker 1 of any restoration. No renovations, no restorations,

Speaker 1 never any accurate evidence that the pyramid was restored

Speaker 1 during any period of the Egyptian history. But there is restoration that goes on even now, though, on the Sphinx, correct?

Speaker 1 I did

Speaker 1 make 10 years of restoration on the Sphinx. It's me who did the restoration of the Sphinx for 10 years.
Why did you decide to do that? Because the Sphinx,

Speaker 1 when I left,

Speaker 1 I was studying in the States. I came to take my doctorate from the University of Pennsylvania from 1980.

Speaker 1 From 1980 to 87,

Speaker 1 some architect and archaeologists were really stupid. They began to restore the Sphinx and they took all the casing stones of the Sphinx out and they put modern stones and they used cement.

Speaker 1 You cannot use cement in the restoration.

Speaker 1 You can use cement in building a house. Yeah, that's not even restoration.
This is a new creation. When I came, I stopped this restoration.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And few because

Speaker 1 this restoration damaged completely the proportions of the Sphinx. It brings to you another Sphinx.
Right. Ugly.

Speaker 1 A few months later, there was a stone

Speaker 1 that was restored in the

Speaker 1 in the

Speaker 1 shoulder of the Sphinx. And it fell down.

Speaker 1 In February, It was raining. And always people use the Sphinx for politics.
The Sphinx? The Sphinx. For politics? Yeah, if they were.

Speaker 1 I tell you, it happened the first time

Speaker 1 in the Pharaonic period.

Speaker 1 You know, the area beside the Sphinx was called the Valley of Gazelles.

Speaker 1 And the princes

Speaker 1 of the New Kingdom used to come to hunt wild animals in the valley and come to worship the Sphinx. And this story that I'm telling you is written in a granite stela.

Speaker 1 It's called the dream stela, located now between the two poles of the sphinx. In the stela it says that Totmus IV was a prince and he came to have a have a to have a nap beside the Sphinx.

Speaker 1 And the Sphinx came to him in dream and told him, my son, if you remove the sand away, I will make you the king of Egypt.

Speaker 1 Then he moved the sand

Speaker 1 and he came to a temple, he found a door. What year was this? This is

Speaker 1 3,000 years ago, exactly. So the Sphinx was constructed long before the

Speaker 1 old kingdom. And it had been covered in sand.
Yes, completely. This is why Herodotus, the father of the history, when he came to Egypt in the middle of the fifth century BC,

Speaker 1 he never talked about the Sphinx because it's completely under the sand.

Speaker 1 Then Rutotmut IV came, he took the sand away and he found that the old kingdom, casing blocks, are falling down. He put them back.

Speaker 1 And he went to the Sphinx

Speaker 1 a temple nearby. He took this granite steel as a door and he wrote this story in it.

Speaker 1 But we found there is something politics in that story. He killed his elder brother,

Speaker 1 who was supposed to be the king of Egypt.

Speaker 1 And he wrote this story to tell the Egyptian

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 the God

Speaker 1 Horim Achet, Horus of the Horizon, it shows me to be the king of Egypt. Then they will forgive the crime that he did.

Speaker 1 When that stone it fell down in 1988,

Speaker 1 a big fight happened between the head of antiquities and the minister of culture. Ended

Speaker 1 by firing the head of antiquities. It's politics.

Speaker 1 But I stayed 10 years.

Speaker 1 When people ask me about the best thing that I did in my life, I say two things. Number one, that I restored the Sphinx.
I brought the proportions of the Sphinx back.

Speaker 1 And I restored the oldest pyramid in Egypt, the steep pyramid.

Speaker 1 It was falling down. In 14 years, I made major important conservation and restoration.
And I tell people, why do we have to fight all the time about the age of the pyramid? We have to fight.

Speaker 1 We have to cooperate, all of us, to restore these monuments.

Speaker 1 And the most important thing is for me always is conservation. And I dedicate most of my life not only to the excavation, but to conservation.

Speaker 1 What do do you think the arguments are that predate the, that try to push the date back

Speaker 1 of the construction of the pyramids? I never heard of this. You've never heard of this? No, it's only new, it's a theory from the new age.
But I know, I saw a debate with you.

Speaker 1 I saw a debate with you and Graham Hancock, and there was another archaeologist. That was.
But hold on, hold on.

Speaker 1 The other archaeologist was saying, if you're saying that something happened 10,000 years ago, where is the evidence of any civilization from 10,000 years ago? Exactly.

Speaker 1 But then you found Gopekli Tepe. So Gobekli Tepe was buried over 11,000 years ago.
That's not true. I never heard about this.
What do you mean it's not true? It's not true what I told you about.

Speaker 1 What is not true? It's never happened. Gobekli Tepe? We never discovered this at all.
Wait a minute. Gobekli Tepe is in Turkey.
Okay. Oh, in Turkey.
Yes. Gobekli Tepe is in Turkey.
And I know.

Speaker 1 It's more than 11,000 years old.

Speaker 1 It's very complex, stone structures. Fine, fine.
But this was the evidence.

Speaker 1 Hold on. This is the the evidence in the argument.
The argument was there was no evidence of an ancient civilization from 10,000 plus years ago. This is before the discovery of Gobeklitepe.

Speaker 1 Gobekli Tepe gets discovered, known to be more than 11,000 years ago. That changes everything.
Because now we know. Yes, it does.
That's the challenge.

Speaker 1 Hold on. Because now we know there was an advanced civilization capable of a spectacular construction 11,000 plus years ago.
This is what.

Speaker 1 Listen.

Speaker 1 Look at the archaeologist

Speaker 1 Turkey or in any civilization. Okay.

Speaker 1 They never talk about old civilizations. That's not true.
Gobekli Tepe is universally accepted as being more than 11,000 years old. I am talking now about Egypt.
I'm not talking about the world.

Speaker 1 No, I understand, but the argument was that there was never any ancient civilization capable of spectacular construction 10,000 years ago.

Speaker 1 Now that they showed Gobekli Tepe is more than 11,000 years old, they know for sure that's not true.

Speaker 1 Okay, but now I'm talking about the pyramids of Egypt. I have the evidence, the written,

Speaker 1 we found everything about that. We know the dating.

Speaker 1 And I gave you hundreds of evidence that this pyramid built by Kufu are kept in the city. No, I'm not saying it wasn't.
I'm not saying it wasn't. And what I'm saying is.

Speaker 1 Any civilization older than we know

Speaker 1 still in the same spot. We have always

Speaker 1 so how does ancient Egypt emerge? Emerge.

Speaker 1 How does it emerge and go from zero to pyramids? Okay, we have

Speaker 1 do you have can you listen to me? Yeah. We have prehistoric Egypt

Speaker 1 and we have the old stone age, middle stone age, Neolithic, when the Egyptians began to know about agriculture. And they began to live together in communities.

Speaker 1 Then after that we came to the pre-dynastic. When a king called Narmar in dynasty zero, he began to make unification of the upper and lower Egypt until one king called Mina or Hora

Speaker 1 who united completely. And what year was this? This is what was 3000 BC,

Speaker 1 5,000 years ago.

Speaker 1 In a place called Aparis, they built huge mudbrick tombs.

Speaker 1 Huge.

Speaker 1 From mud brick. No stones.

Speaker 1 And these tombs are created in a site called Apairis.

Speaker 1 You know, what's really fascinating about this is that 500 years, you think about that,

Speaker 1 how

Speaker 1 different just modern civilization was 500 years ago. 500 years ago, we had almost none of the inventions we have today.

Speaker 1 We had no internal combustion engine, you know, no hardened steel, none of the things that we have. And now, look what we have with electronics.

Speaker 1 Now, imagine what the Egyptians were able to do in 500 years

Speaker 1 in a different way in construction with stone. That their advancements weren't like our advancements, but their advancements were equally spectacular, just in a different way.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Now I come back to the mud-brick structure.

Speaker 1 This is in dynasty one

Speaker 1 and two.

Speaker 1 On dynasty three came a king called Zoser.

Speaker 1 He had a genius architect. His name is Imhotep.

Speaker 1 I am searching.

Speaker 1 Did you hear about Imhotep before? Yes, okay. I'm searching for his tomb.
Only two weeks ago, before I came, I made a major important discovery in Egypt. I found a tomb of a son of a king inside

Speaker 1 incredible statues of Zoser and his father and his queens and his children. Where is this tomb?

Speaker 1 In the shadow of the steppe pyramid.

Speaker 1 In the shadow of Zoser.

Speaker 1 And this really made me, because I have been searching for the tomb of Im Hotep most of my life.

Speaker 1 But the area that I found this tomb,

Speaker 1 it was under houses, modern houses. Oh, wow.
The workmen who work in the site, 100 years ago, they built houses in the site. But they never excavated what's underneath the houses.
Wow.

Speaker 1 So modern houses, and underneath there's an hidden tomb. Six months ago, we gave houses to these people in another area, and we demolished these houses.
And we found underneath major discoveries.

Speaker 1 This discovery will be in today's show this week.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 I am sure now that Im Hotep's tomb is in this area. Wow.
Now I come to the bottom of the city. What technology can you use to discover these underground caverns and chambers?

Speaker 1 All what I do

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 digging. That's it? That's it.
What if these Italian guys are onto something? You can find more stuff.

Speaker 1 I want you to come to see what I do and what I discover.

Speaker 1 I want to. I want to discover

Speaker 1 Italians, too. And what I discover, I can show it to you.
Please do. Jamie, Zeb Tepe, did you find anything about that?

Speaker 1 About that?

Speaker 1 Where are the origins of that?

Speaker 1 Maybe a book from 1960, and I couldn't figure out how he got there. It's probably a long slodge through information and try to get to the root of it.

Speaker 1 But can we continue with how it happened until you have the pyramids? Sure. Then Im Hotep

Speaker 1 came and he built the same mastaba. Mastaba in Arabic means a bench.
He built the construction in mud brick

Speaker 1 of stone

Speaker 1 for the first time.

Speaker 1 And he added more sections to the first one.

Speaker 1 And he put above that five mastabas.

Speaker 1 It's called the step

Speaker 1 pyramid.

Speaker 1 In the pyramid text. That's the first one.
In the pyramid text, they say that the step pyramid is a stairs

Speaker 1 that the king is buried underneath to go to heaven.

Speaker 1 And this one was how many years before the Great Pyramid? It's almost

Speaker 1 almost 700 years.

Speaker 1 So obviously it's not nearly as sophisticated as the Great Pyramid. So in 700 years they just got way better at it.
Listen,

Speaker 1 now

Speaker 1 on Dynasty III there is another pyramid was found

Speaker 1 and only

Speaker 1 I found recently

Speaker 1 that I did not excavate it completely. I found a pyramid, which is the end of Dynasty 3, of a king called Honey.

Speaker 1 Then now we came to Sinepho. His name is Horny.
Honey. Honey.
Honey. Okay.
H-U-N-I.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Then we come to Dynasty 4, Sinefro.

Speaker 1 Okay. Sinefro had a genius, architect.

Speaker 1 His name was Nephir Mat.

Speaker 1 Then he started. Sounds like a good name for a genius.
Yeah, he started to build a step pyramid like this in a site called Maidoum.

Speaker 1 But for a reason we do not know, he left it unfinished. And he went to a place called Dashur.

Speaker 1 He

Speaker 1 built the pyramid with a huge angle. And he changed the angle.
It became bent.

Speaker 1 And he built another pyramid. If you look at the other pyramid of the father

Speaker 1 of Kufu, it's exactly equal to the great pyramid. This is the first true pyramid, but people

Speaker 1 never go to Rashur to look at this pyramid. People always look at Kufu.

Speaker 1 Then you have in dynasty four,

Speaker 1 the pyramids were huge

Speaker 1 because of the quality of the stones.

Speaker 1 In dynasty five and six, there is no good quality of stones. Then the Egyptian

Speaker 1 made decrease on the volume of the stones and did increase in the volume of the war reliefs. Temples began to be decorated with scenes for the first time.

Speaker 1 In the Middle Kingdom, another trend. Mud, brick, pyramid, but underneath maze corridors

Speaker 1 of stones that if you go down, you will lose your way.

Speaker 1 In the new kingdom,

Speaker 1 they built, they came in the top of the Valley of the Kings, a shape of the pyramid, and they buried all the kings like King Tat and others underneath the pyramid.

Speaker 1 Shape

Speaker 1 So that's the story. That's the story.
All right.

Speaker 1 Well, listen, man, it's been fascinating talking to you, and I definitely am going to take you up in your offer. I'm definitely going to go to Egypt.
No, now we'll talk. Now we'll talk.
We'll talk to

Speaker 1 you. Send me that video so we can splice it in of the hieroglyphs that are on the wall.
We'll send that right. I will send it tomorrow.
Okay. But

Speaker 1 give the email to Gregor and Mustafa now. We will do that.
And they are the people that will talk to them now to arrange for your trip. Okay.

Speaker 1 And I will invite you for a good time. How many days do you think I should go? Ten days at least.
Jamie, you got to come. Okay.
You want to do a podcast from there? Sure. Just you and me.

Speaker 1 Let us do one inside the Great Pyramid. Yeah, definitely.
100%. Okay.
With the echoey though.

Speaker 1 Oh, here's another problem with the idea that these Italians are proposing. Isn't there a water table under the pyramid that's like a million years old? No.
There's not water underneath there? No.

Speaker 1 This is the Osiris shaft that was full of water. So is that what Mr.
Beast was swimming in? Exactly. But where's that water coming from? It's a water table.
Oh, there is a water table.

Speaker 1 This shaft, this shaft,

Speaker 1 I came.

Speaker 1 I brought a company and we did suck all the water out. Oh.
Until I found underneath a sarcophagus and four pillars. Oh, wow.
And this is the symbolic burial of the god Osiris.

Speaker 1 Because Giza Plateau was called in the New Kingdom Per Uzer Nebrastau, the house of Osiris, Lord of Rastau. Rastau means cemetery, but literally means the underground tunnels.
That Osiris is ruling.

Speaker 1 Then Herodotus, when he came, he talked about this water. under the pyramid.
It is in the shaft. And this one beast entered inside and

Speaker 1 swamming. Okay.
You know, I met him because I wanted to convince the young people that pyramids were not built by aliens. That's why I took him to 39 years.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't understand the alien thing. I think super advanced culture, super advanced civilization.
But I think the Library of Alexandria Burning is probably one of the greatest disasters.

Speaker 1 Many people in America believe that you believe in aliens.

Speaker 1 When I talk to them, that I'm coming to see you. That I believe in aliens? They do.
Well, I'm not opposed to the idea of aliens existing.

Speaker 1 There's hundreds of billions of galaxies in the known universe, each with hundreds of billions of stars. The idea that we're uniquely alone.
You don't think there's anything out there? Nothing.

Speaker 1 So you don't believe in ancient civilizations capable of advanced construction?

Speaker 1 You don't believe in aliens. Joe, I am afraid.
You don't believe in carbon dating. I am a scientist.
Oh. If you believe in something, write an article.

Speaker 1 Then I can read, but don't give me a theory.

Speaker 1 The planets containing intelligent life is. No, that's not true.

Speaker 1 I have been debating Graham Hank, Aruba Bafal, and Jean-Antonist, and I told them from the beginning: your theory will go with the wind. Right, but we're not talking about that theory.

Speaker 1 We're talking about aliens being possible. No way.
No alien, just us. This is the national alien.

Speaker 1 If you believe in God, us in the whole universe? Only us. If you believe in God,

Speaker 1 you will do miracles. The Egyptians

Speaker 1 believed in the afterlife, and they made this great civilization. I'm not saying aliens made it.
I'm saying it's very possible there's something else out there in the world.

Speaker 1 Thank you. All right.
Thank you. All right.
Bye bye, everybody. Enjoy it talking to you.
I enjoyed it too. And I'll see you in the next one.
Bye, everybody.