#2371 - Fedor Gorst

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Bro,

yeah, this

company called M-Theory sent this to me.

And this was when Efren Reyes snuck into America under the nickname Caesar Morales

and won some big tournament at Reds, wherever that is.

Probably in Chicago?

I don't know.

Put the headphones on, dog.

Let's get real.

I was like, you don't have to.

Or we can not have headphones.

Do they feel weird to you?

That's good.

No, no, no, that's good.

You're okay?

I don't care.

It doesn't matter.

It's just good if, like, we show a video or something like that.

Right.

Dude, you came that close to being two-year-in-a-row U.S.

Open champion.

God fucking close.

Yeah, two days ago.

I mean, I feel super tired because my schedule has been hectic lately.

Yeah.

You know, I played the world championships in Saudi where I also lost in the finals.

Did you play the Florida Open too?

Florida Open.

I played the tournament in between that.

So basically I played back-to-back to back-to-back four events.

Wow.

It's been over a month already, you know, staying on the road, constantly playing.

Dude, this is the real good argument.

You're the best player in the world.

And if you're the best player of the world, I think you are, you got my vote.

If you're the best player in the world today, you're the best player of all time.

Oh, well.

I mean, it's really tough too.

A lot of old guys talk a lot of shit, but I'm just saying.

Always.

I mean, this guy on my shirt, he certainly gets the, like, as far as like the greatest of all time, most achievements of all time, Efrent.

The Z shot, like, all the crazy stuff that he could pull off with a cue ball.

Did you see the shot that I made recently?

Which one?

The three-rail kick.

I did see that, yeah.

I mean, it is tougher.

It is a tougher kick.

It wasn't as

it wasn't as, you know, the situation wasn't like, it was a hill hill that you played against the Earl, you know, in the final.

So it's, obviously, it's a much, much

different environment.

But the kick that I made was sick.

It was pretty sick.

Well, you know what?

The Filipinos put kicking on the map, right?

Oh, for sure.

Their thing.

Efren, when he came over here, they changed the whole game.

Jose Perico was really good at it, too.

Carlo Biadonal is the best kick.

So good.

It's amazing.

Yeah, that's the one.

That's the one.

Good thing I have a filmmaker traveling with me everywhere filming me now.

That's a crazy shot.

Yeah,

I actually lost that match to Duong Kwok.

Almost made shape on the 2-ball, too.

Yeah, that's what's horrible when you make an amazing shot and then lose the match.

Yeah.

That's how it goes.

Yeah, look, it's a crazy game.

And the game that you guys are playing right now, the reason why I said I think if you're the best player today, you're the best player of all time because the conditions are very different.

For people who don't know, who don't play pool, okay?

If you're going to a regular bar and you're playing on like a bar tabler, those pockets might be five and a half inches.

Well, also, in the U.S., people are playing on seven-foot tables versus we play on the table.

They're in a bar.

sure.

They're nine foot tables and the pockets are four inches.

And so when you get two cue balls, you try to put them next to each other and try to stick.

You can't even get them close to sticking them in a four inch pocket.

It's really tight conditions.

And I think there's better players now than I've ever seen in my life.

And I've been watching pool for 35 years and playing pool for 35 years.

I've never seen better players than play today.

And I think you're the best today.

So in my book, that makes you the best of all time.

Well, like you said, the conditions are completely different.

The game changed.

Even in the last three years, I think the game changed drastically.

Yeah.

You know, we went, we changed the breaking formats.

It used to be one ball on the spot with the magic rack, no three-point rule.

All the people at home that don't play pool go, what the fuck are they talking about?

We're talking about professional pool, ladies and gentlemen.

Yeah, yeah, we have all kinds of little, little rules.

Yeah.

The nine ball on the spot made a big difference, right?

Yeah, nine ball on the spot, break box.

Yeah.

When you were showing me today how to break that way, way, I was like, oh, that's crazy.

Like, you have to hit it with draw, and you have to aim towards the back ball.

Like, wow.

Yeah, well, we can't really say that.

Oh, yeah.

The SUV.

The others.

The others.

The others.

Yeah.

It's an insanely competitive game now.

And shout out to Matchroom, right?

Because Matchroom with DeZone, they've done an amazing job with boxing and a bunch of other sports.

But what they're doing with pool is crazy.

There's so many events, and it's all over.

You can get it on on the World 9 Ball Tour.

It's WNT.tv, right?

Yeah, so the website.

I think they moved from dozen to their subscription type platform.

It's amazing.

It's amazing.

And then there's also their matchroom pool YouTube channel, which has tons of stuff on it for free.

Yeah, they are elevating the game for sure and they are the reason why Pool is where it's at today, you know, versus where it was five years ago, I think.

Yeah, it's huge.

I have friends who send me videos now.

Like people who just randomly find videos on TikTok or on Instagram.

know?

Pool is booming on social media.

And you know, I do my own social media.

I have a filmmaker that follows me everywhere.

We try to film as much stuff.

It was very funny what you did in New York City, or in Atlantic City, rather, when you went to that pool and you went under disguise.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that was Metron's idea.

I think it was pretty cheap budget.

We could do it a lot better, especially when we go to Asia, I think.

You can't sneak around any pool hall.

Well, if you put me and make me look like a grandpa or something.

Okay.

Like you'd have to get into disguise.

Yeah.

yeah well their disguises are really good today have you ever seen those cia disguises that they use uh-uh so apparently this is a story apparently um and this was told to me by someone who i really trust obama was having a meeting with someone in um one of the rooms in the white house and he's in the middle of having this meeting with someone who he's met before and had conversations with before and then they inform him mr president we just want to let you know this is not who you think you're talking to.

And we just wanted to demonstrate how good the special effects makeup is and masks are.

This is not that person.

And he was like, what?

Now, I haven't confirmed this.

I don't have Obama's number.

Well, I'm like, I can call him up and go, bro, is that real?

Yeah.

But I believe it's real.

Because I've seen up close, like, really ins like when.

Tony Hitchcliffe does Kill Tony.

Sometimes they have makeup artists that dress people up and make them different people.

Like they did a Biden one and Kyle Dunnegan played Elon Musk and I didn't even recognize him.

I was like, who's this guy?

Like this is this weird guy, like acting weird.

And they're like, that's Dunne playing Elon Musk.

I was like, no way.

Right in front of him, I thought it was just some, didn't look like Elon Musk.

It looked like a weird guy, but it didn't look like him.

And it looked like a person.

It didn't look like a guy in makeup.

It didn't look like a mask.

It looked like a real person.

It just was weird looking.

I was like, this is crazy.

Yeah, that's what we should do.

And I think it's going to be really, really good if we do that in Asia, like Vietnam or Philippines.

You got to work on that voice, though, son.

Russia all day with that voice.

I know.

I know.

I can only be like an undercover, I don't know,

somebody from.

And for people at home,

how could he be the number one in the world if he just lost?

Aloysius Yap should be the number one in the world.

He should be the number one of all time.

It's like long races are really what's up.

Well, it's by the rankings.

I'm number one.

By the rankings, and what we have now with Metro: it's two years of prize money combined throughout all the tournaments.

But I think the real matches that you play, where you really get to see who's the best, and this is only for like hardcore pool nerds.

The real ones, like the one you did with Shane, was like three days race to 40 each day, 120 games total.

Oh, yeah.

That way, there's no questions.

No.

After three days and 120 games of pool, you know, possibly 239 games of pool.

That's how I almost won the first time we played.

Really?

I lost the first time.

That's right.

I lost 120 to 116.

I was down and up, up and down.

And the last day I was up by almost 15 games, I remember, and he came back and beat me.

Yeah.

It was super impressive.

But it was even more impressive you coming back the next year and steamrolling him.

Like you won by quite a few games.

How many did you win by?

By

42, I think.

42 games is crazy.

Yeah, that's crazy.

42 to 78.

I think that was the score.

And that was for...

Do you advertise how much that money was being

gambled?

Well, we were advertising that it was for 50, but it was a little bit more.

So you had a bunch of other people chumming in, throwing money in?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, myself included.

So you don't want to say the actual total?

I don't know.

Okay.

So,

are we allowed?

I don't know.

I mean, unless you're lying to the IRS, which as a new citizen, I would say don't do that.

So, yeah, we'll play for 50.

We'll play for 50.

Oh, no, you're going to get in trouble.

I don't think you were a citizen last time you were here, right?

I'm not a citizen now.

I have a permanent residency in Greenland.

Oh, okay.

What do you have to do to become a citizen?

I think you have to be a permanent resident for five years, and then you can apply if you

follow certain rules.

Like, you have to stay in the U.S.

for

six months of the year, out of the calendar year each year well you better stay away from home depot because those dudes are getting crazy yeah they're snatching people up left and right yeah yeah no i think i think i do everything right you know i pay my taxes yeah i follow i follow all the rules

Well, you got to play that's weird that you, if you're not a citizen, but still you get to play for the Moscone Cup.

That's kind of crazy.

Well,

Matchroom changed the rules, you know, as soon as I got the green card, and I wasn't able to play in any official tournaments back then.

Right, because you were Russian.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the which is really crazy.

It was really weird.

Yeah, when you think about it, even the first ban that we got as a Russian athlete happened because of hockey players.

The

WADA, VADA, Anti-Doping Association, they banned all the Russian athletes.

It doesn't matter what sport you're in.

What?

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, so it had nothing to do with the war.

The first one happened before the war.

It was 2018 or 19, I think.

All Russian athletes competing in Russia.

All Russian athletes competing everywhere.

It was everywhere.

We played World Cup of Pool, I remember, in the UK under no flag.

But we were still able to compete.

Like when after the war, we were not allowed to compete anywhere.

Wow.

Wow.

You know what's interesting?

It never stopped the UFC.

Like, not only do Russian fighters fight in the UFC, but they're celebrated.

No one cares.

Because they're not under the Olympic Committee, I think.

They're definitely not.

It's a professional sport.

Well, and that's what happened with Metro 2.

You know, it's a private company.

It's not a federation or association.

They're just a private company, and they basically make their own rules.

I was just glad that they didn't make it political.

I'm like,

you think fucking this guy is out there causing trouble?

Like, he's just a fighter.

He's just a professional MMA fighter.

You know,

this is what he does.

And let's think about that.

Let's not think about what these other people are doing that are in the same country as him.

It's not him.

Yeah.

So the USA didn't they didn't care.

Like they let a bunch of like for the entire time of the war, Ukrainian guys and Russian guys are fighting on the same card sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad that just, you know, Metro and Metro went out of their own way to make an offer to me and say, you know, you can represent the United States.

And at the time, we were playing the U.S.

Open in Atlantic City two years ago.

Or was it, yeah, two years ago.

And the crowd is cheering for me.

You know, I'm living in the United States already.

Everybody's treating me like I'm one of their own.

Now it's obviously completely different.

You know, if you watch the U.S.

Open from last week, everybody's supporting me.

Everybody's cheering for me.

Everybody's used to me living here.

Cool thing about America is that it's a nation of immigrants.

It's like you can come over here and just say, I'm American now.

And everybody's like, all right.

Yeah.

Try that in Poland.

They're like, you're not Polish.

Get the fuck out of here.

You know, there's a lot of countries like that that are like, no, you're not one of us.

But America is like, we don't have like a nationality.

We're all kinds of shit.

So anybody can come over here

and if you do it the right way, we get super happy.

Yeah, yeah, I think, I think it's great.

And I'm really, really glad that people really welcomed you with the way the way they welcomed me.

Yeah, well, that's also the way you play.

You know,

there's a thing in pool.

It gets when people play a lot and are people really into pool, it's almost like that's the only thing that matters.

The only thing that matters is how good you play.

You know, there was a do you you ever read that book,

McGurdy?

It was a Robert Burns book on a guy who lived during the Depression, who was a billiards hustler, traveled around the country.

There was a scene in that where they were looking at the television and Nixon was on TV.

And he goes, look at that guy, president of the United States, and he can't make a ball.

Isn't that funny?

Because you and I know what that means.

Like that in the pool world, that really means something.

Like if you can't play at all, like

it's the fucking president.

You can't even play.

It's real.

It's weird.

So if you come to America, all that they care about is if you, since it's a melting pot already, and then it's like, all they care about is how good you play.

And

you play pretty fucking good.

So far.

People just take in.

So far, well, you're playing better now than ever before.

And you're right.

I think I'm on top of Micro You're right.

What are you, 25?

25.

Yeah.

Come on, man.

You're not even in your prime.

No, yeah.

I think I'm not in my prime.

I think, you know, I'm getting better every year.

I think so.

You were, you,

the match that you had with that Filipino gentleman before the match in the finals.

What is that guy's name?

Michael Bowen.

That was Michael Bonner in quarterfinals.

Quarterfinals.

Quarterfinals.

Yeah.

So in that match, I was watching some of those outs, and I was like, Jesus, like.

It doesn't get better pooled than that.

Like, four-inch pockets, tight competition, competition, a really good player, a lot of pressure.

Everybody's there.

Single elimination at that point.

And you're just getting out, man.

Yeah, the pressure is really high.

I'm not going to lie.

Sometimes even

you can watch it on TV and you don't see the emotions.

Oh, I get it.

I'm sure.

Your bridge is shaking sometimes.

Your backhand is shaking sometimes.

And

you just got to manage it.

You just got to handle it.

Well, you have such a process when you play.

Like, when I watch you set up for a ball, it's always uniform.

That's what I really enjoy watching.

When a guy is like every shot, it's like

some people find it nice and smooth.

Oh, those people are assholes.

Those people are assholes.

If they think your style is boring.

Robotic.

They'll go, they're all pussies.

They can eat shit.

Those guys, all they are is jealous.

That's all that is.

Everybody wants to play like that.

Everybody wants to play like that.

If they say, because you play too good, it's not fun to watch, shut up.

Yeah.

I know.

That guy, whoever that guy is,

I don't want to listen to his opinion on anything.

I guarantee you, he likes shows that suck.

You could get in his car and listen to his music.

It probably sucks.

Probably.

How do you not like watching someone play perfect?

That's crazy.

Well, I'll have to agree.

It doesn't make any sense.

But then there are guys who play wild that it is fun to watch, like Muhammad Sufi.

That guy, he gives gives me anxiety.

Yeah, very unique.

You know, sidearm.

Sidearm, barely holding onto the queue, and he just fires balls in.

He runs around the table.

He like one-strokes everything, and he's just getting out from everywhere.

You're like, ah!

Yeah, he's very, very talented.

We have a few, few, few guys like that.

You know, Oliver Ortman?

Yes, I remember him.

So he used to win, you know, world championships with multiple world titles.

He was on Moscone Cup and won Pro League.

Tony Drago.

Yeah, Tony Drago, same.

That guy was crazy.

He was just running around the table, fireballs in.

He couldn't miss.

Yeah, those guys are fun to watch.

But what are we here for?

Right?

You're here to win.

You're here to run out.

You're here to get perfect position.

You're here to dominate this very difficult table.

Yeah, everybody's different.

Everybody has their own style.

But under extreme pressure, it's better to have your style.

Like, or coping Chung style or coping Yeasty, like methodical backstroke.

It always looks the same, smooth delivery.

And, you know, I play half-ass pool, but I understand what's going on.

It's such a mind fuck.

Oh, yeah.

Every game is such a mind fuck.

Every time you're about to pull the trigger, you're like, now, no, one more stroke.

Now, no.

One more backstroke.

Now, no, not yet.

Okay, we're ready.

I hope we're ready.

Go.

Well, you don't really have that because we play.

When we play, we have shot clock.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Shot clock is brutal.

Shot clock.

Shot clock is a game game changer for sure.

It's hell.

Because you gotta make the decision basically right out of the gate, right out of the chair.

When you're in chair, you already know what you're gonna do because you only have 30 seconds and one extension per rec,

which gives you an extra 30 seconds.

And sometimes the pressure is really high, and when you get completely brain dead,

you don't wanna be in that position.

I think the derby's a little bit better.

They give you a little 10 more seconds.

Well, at Derby, the rule is where you're as long as you stay down on the shot, the shot clock doesn't.

That's good, too.

Yeah.

The other thing that's brutal is the beeps.

Doot, doot, doot.

When it gets down to five seconds before you got to pull the trigger, and you pull the trigger on a nine-ball with one second to go.

Oh, yeah.

I was watching.

I was like, oh, my God, I would be having a heart attack right now.

I almost had.

I almost had.

Moscone Cup is definitely, when it comes to pressure, it's the highest pressure you can ever hear.

Well, everyone's screaming and cheering.

Yeah, everyone is screaming.

For people that haven't seen it before, most pool tournaments are very, very respectful.

People will clap after you make an out, or sometimes in the middle of a game, like if you make a really good shot, they'll clap.

If you get great position, they'll clap.

But as soon as you drop down to shoot the next ball, everybody gets quiet.

Oh, yeah.

Moscone Cup, those rules are...

Those rules are off the table.

Off the table.

Sometimes they shark you.

They would be super loud and you have a super tough nine ball, and everybody would like, for example, you play in the UK and 95% of the crowd is European, so everybody's cheering for Europe.

So let's say I'm on the top nine ball and everybody's loud and then everybody will go like, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, and everybody will go quiet just in a second.

And it's really, really tough to pull the trigger in that situation.

Yeah.

So it's a tough environment to play in, but that's what makes this tournament special.

Well, it's fun to watch, though.

I'm so glad that all tournaments aren't like that, though, where you encourage people to be assholes.

Oh, yeah.

It's kind of weird though that they've agreed to only be an asshole for one tournament uh

because people yell out in the middle of like you stroking a ball you see the crowd getting more engaged and more now like you watch the u.s open finals it was loud when i played michael bound on the quarterfinals it was kind of like that because half of the crowd was filipino well not half but there was a lot of a lot of guys that were loud this episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog i think we can all agree that eating highly processed food for every meal isn't optimal optimal.

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Yeah, let's talk about that because one thing that happened is there's a rule where you're not allowed to soft break.

But soft breaking is basically very subjective.

Like a referee can decide to call someone on it or not call someone on it.

And you thought this guy was soft breaking.

Yeah.

So you said something and the Filipinos went crazy.

Yeah, everybody went crazy.

I had to delete my Facebook for a couple of days because it was just bothering me.

I was getting notifications every second.

You know, crazy Filipino goes, yeah, you're sharking our player.

You did that.

But yeah, I thought the guy was soft-breaking.

And the rules state that you gotta

make your best effort to make a forceful break.

So that's really subjective, and it's up to the referee to make that call.

I have a solution to that.

And it makes it more interesting, too.

Radar.

Radar, yeah, speed gun.

Yeah, it's an easy solution.

I agree.

Easy solution, and it makes it interesting.

It's a new element that you think about.

Then you also have, for example, juniors or girls.

Do you make the rules the same for them?

No, it's a good.

Well, you don't, they're not playing guys, right?

Well, girls are playing girls.

Well, yeah, but on WNG Tour, it's an open tournament, for example.

Oh, right, right, right.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

Juniors can join.

I see, but I thought you were talking about young kids.

No, for young kids, you'd have to have an exception.

Exactly.

And for girls, you'd have to have an exception.

But you would just change it.

Just like, you know,

so whatever the speed is, like, what is

what's a good break speed?

What do you think you break at?

Like, Bustamante in his prime, what was he, like 30 miles an hour?

Well, back in the day, it was different.

Back in the day, everybody was breaking over 23, 24, 25.

But Boost Damonte had the craziest break.

Yeah, Bustamante.

When he would let the cue go out of his fingers and then throw his whole body into it, his timing was crazy.

You ever watched the Russian player?

His name was Eugenie Stalif?

No.

Oh,

you got to watch that stroke.

It was even crazier.

Really?

Oh, yeah.

It's like Roberto Gomez.

Oh, he has a crazy person.

Same thing.

He's up.

Yeah.

He goes up.

Way up.

Way up.

Yeah.

That's so hard to be accurate and do that.

Oh, yeah.

I don't know how they do it.

You have to have the most insane, smooth delivery.

And again, what a mind fuck because you're about to,

you're trying to hit this one ball square on the face and you're throwing all of your might into it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's how Shane.

Shane's breaking the same way.

You know, his body moves first and then he delivers.

I'd like to know how fast he breaks when he breaks like 10 ball because when he ten ball breaks it's pretty crazy.

He breaks pretty hard.

So what do you think would be like a reasonable mile per hour that you would impose where you'd say anything l slower than that is soft breaking.

Is it like 15 miles an hour?

Or 20?

I think it has to be higher, maybe

18.

And that will also push the players to practice.

For example, you wouldn't want to break borderline eighteen because it may be under.

right so players will try to break harder 19 closer to 19 maybe hotter than 19 well they used to do that three-point rule where they would

well that was very annoying where you think it was very annoying yes it was very annoying because sometimes guys would break hard but the referee didn't rack them that good right and they made a ball and then the the opponent gets to shoot i'm like that's crazy that's yeah i mean in that case yes i agree but that's a s another simple solution that's better than what we have now i think I think the radar is the way to go.

Yeah, the radar is definitely the way to go.

I mean, and also it's kind of cool.

You know, when you get to...

Yeah, and extra stats you have.

And some guys,

like Shane, even in nine-ball, when he does the cut break, he breaks really hard.

Kachi is the one that breaks the hardest.

Well, he's a big fucking dude.

Oh, yeah, he breaks the hardest.

I don't know how he keeps the cue ball on the table, to be honest, with that speed.

And it doesn't even look like he's trying that hard, you know, because he's a big dude.

He's just last turn, he was breaking open bridge, which is even crazier.

Yeah.

People, that's one one thing about pool, though.

If you want to get spectators, you want hard breaks.

You know, like people love it from like the color of money.

When Tom Cruise breaks and Paul Newman goes, who's that kid with the sledgehammer?

Break.

It's a dumb American thing.

But if you want to get American people to tune in, you got to break hard.

Yeah.

Like, that's why Earl Strickland still gets mad.

He gets mad at everything.

I heard Mike Siegel talk about it, too.

He's like, why don't they just hit it straight on the one ball and hit it as hard as you can?

Because it's no fun.

You get zero control that way.

It's no skill, really.

I just think he doesn't, he hasn't had someone lay it out to him like the way you just did with me.

We explained it to me.

This is the first time that I had anybody explain to me that particular break.

I'm like, oh, and you did it dead on.

And you knew that the cloth was a little worn because it's a year-old cloth.

So you're like, okay, because of that, I'm going to have to hit it here and it'll go on the side.

And you smashed it and it went right in the side.

I was like, oh, shit.

Like, it's not,

it's very, it's not risking.

You're not like gambling.

The only thing you're gambling with is that the ball's going across the table.

But it seems like you guys kind of have that mostly worked out too.

Well, that's the thing.

Everybody on the tour is figuring out the break really fast.

Doesn't really matter what you change in the format.

The players will figure it out.

The fun thing to me about your life is that you're traveling all over the world playing, and then occasionally you have these marathon gambling sessions that they stream online.

And I've got a good buddy of mine, Tommy, from Connecticut.

Shout out to my boy Tommy.

And, you know, he and I will be fucking texting to each other

for three days in a row while these matches are going on.

And I get so juiced up for him.

I get so excited about him.

But it's like that's the part of the game that has always been the most romantic, the gambling part of the game.

And I'm glad that people aren't shying away from that because there was a long, for a long time, time, gambling was thought to be negative for professional pool.

That's not the case anymore.

Well, it could be.

It could be.

It could be, sure, because you're bringing in shady people.

For sure.

Well, you if you're gambling $100,000, where'd you get it?

Where'd you get it?

You know, Bob the drug dealer came over and

he wants in.

He's staking me.

And if I win, I get 40%.

But in our case, it's different.

Like our matches that we make,

there's only a couple of them that we did.

We played twice with Shane, and

there's also a few one-pocket matches we did, but the biggest ones were with Shane, and it's only a small group of people.

It's basically just

a few guys, my managers, me, and same thing from Shane's side.

So everybody knows each other.

Yeah, for sure, in your case.

But in the case of high-level gambling in pool,

there's a lot of shady characters.

A lot of shady characters.

How often do you gamble just in regular life playing pool?

Does anybody ask for giant giant spots or anything like that?

Well, everybody's asking for ridiculous games all the time, but I think

my gambling days are over, and now I'm a tournament player, really.

Well, you got too good.

Yeah.

Like, I played you when you were here, like, two years ago.

And I definitely play better now than I played two years ago, but you play way better.

You play even better than you were playing then, which is crazy.

But you were banking out and making shots.

I was like,

this is so humiliating.

It's so humbling.

Yeah, I do play a lot better than I did two years ago.

Which is hard to believe.

Because you're the best player in the world and you're getting better.

That's one of the coolest things to me about any game or any sport, anything, is that, and especially today because there's so much...

data that's available.

Like say if you're a young player and you're learning how to play, you can watch pool on your iPad until three o'clock in the morning.

You watch matches and you learn.

You learn how to play things.

You learn like what, why did he do it that way?

Like, oh, and then you rewind it and you go, oh, none of that was available to like Mike Siegel back in the day or Nick Varner and those guys.

Yeah, there's tons of videos on YouTube.

There's so much, so much, so much information.

Yeah, and you can also, I mean, you can also watch it on TV.

I think Metro.

Metro has shown all those tournaments, all of the majors on TV everywhere except U.S., I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so it's just like everything else, with the new generation the the level just gets higher and higher with everything unless there's physical limitations and with pool it doesn't seem like it's not like you know running a four-minute mile or you know running the fastest meter we're all crooked all of our backs are crooked oh yeah for sure you know we're always bent over it's always one-sided sport every one-sided sport is kind of like that i think archery's like that archery golf yeah shooting yeah

yeah you your back must be fucked up i know you fuck your neck was fucked up we brought you to waste to well last time you were here.

Yeah, yeah, it did help.

It did help for

like six to eight months, I think.

And now it's fucking with you again?

No.

Now I actually found the way, you know, I have my pre-match routine.

I stretch every single day.

I do work a lot with like rubber bands, resistant bands.

What do you do with them?

Basically, you know, I work on my upper back.

Oh, so certain workouts?

Certain workouts that will take some pressure off my neck.

Because my neck is where I really feel it, like my upper back, shoulder blades.

You probably have a heavy head.

That's what it is.

Yeah, maybe.

But I did all the MRIs and I uh did have like a bulging disc, C four, C five.

Yeah.

Uh that started to progress and was uh getting worse.

I went to Russia for that.

Uh I think I was reaching out to you at the time.

And uh I found a guy that helped me a lot with uh like routines that we built and since then

knock on wood everything was good.

Oh, nice.

Did you ever get one of those things that I was talking about those decompression things where you put your head head in a harness and you like pull on the door.

Yeah.

You set it on your door and you can like hang about it a little bit?

Those are nice.

Yeah.

And also,

how do you call that?

Inversion table?

Yeah, inversion table.

I love that as well.

Those are great too.

Everybody should be doing that.

Everybody should be decompressing.

Because

you get to a certain age and everybody's back is just like you're carrying all this weight.

your whole life and your back just gets smushed and your posture starts to suck and then you start to get these weird pains and decompression.

And if you could do it and just be real vigilant with it, you can stop a lot of problems dead in their tracks.

For sure, and I felt it.

You know, I haven't really paid attention to like stretching as much as I did before this year.

And I can, you know, I can play a lot longer, even though I'm not younger.

You know, I was practicing.

You're a little baby.

Shut up.

I know.

I was, for example, 16, 18, I was practicing a lot more, a lot more than I did now.

Yeah.

And I never really had any issues.

Then 2022, I'm practicing the same, but I always leave the pool hole with some type of pain, and I don't want to go practice the next day because of that.

Right.

Do you,

the problem is it's hard to get access to a cold plunge when you're on the road.

Yeah, it's really difficult.

I do have the cold plunge at home.

Yeah.

Sauna and all the good stuff.

Cold plunge is the thing, man.

It just alleviates so much inflammation, especially if you can do it first thing in the morning.

If you can force yourself to do it first thing in the morning, it is the way to go, man.

It sucks every day.

But if you just do it,

you get out of there.

You're just like, oh, you just feel loose and free.

Yeah.

And as long as you don't do it within like two hours of you playing, you have to wait like probably two hours for your body to like fully warm back up again.

Because if you are cold, it will kind of mess with your

muscles.

Or can you tight?

Yeah.

I was telling you, the worst thing ever for pool is lifting weights.

There's nothing worse.

I found it myself.

For sure.

It's terrible.

For sure.

You know Willie Hoppy, the old school billiard player?

Never heard of him?

Willie Hoppy, no.

Never heard of him?

You know what a hoppy cue is?

Hoppy Q, no.

No, okay.

A hoppy butt is like a type of butt that doesn't have a rubber bumper on the bottom of it.

It's just flat.

And for whatever reason, Willie Hoppy used to prefer that kind of...

I think.

It's named after him for some reason.

Anyway, he was a famous billiards player, like the turn of the century.

And the turn of the other one, like the early 1900s.

And he wouldn't even drive a car.

He refused to do anything with his arms.

He wouldn't drive a car because it would mess up his pool game.

Yeah, I mean, some players are super superstitious about the stuff, you know.

Cars back then, though, didn't have power steering.

So you have to think it's probably really difficult to steer them.

See if you can find a photo of Willie Hoppy.

He had the weirdest sidearm, too.

Yeah.

Totally sidearm.

Keith McCready.

Exactly.

It's like these guys guys start playing when they're five years old and they can't really reach the table correctly.

That's exactly the reason why, for example, when I started, I played Russian Pyramid in the beginning.

And I was always sidearmed because I wasn't tall enough.

They sent me to the pool table.

Yeah, look at him.

Isn't that crazy sidearm?

Like, that's nuts.

Just like Mohamed Sufi.

Yeah, that's him when he was an old man.

Yeah, just like Sufi.

Weird, right?

Yeah, it's crazy that.

Like, if you ever saw someone play like that, you'd be like, look at this lemon.

Yeah, you would want to play that guy if you watched him over the ball.

But meanwhile, as long as he figured out how to do it consistently.

That's the thing in pool.

You know, there's so many different variations of the stance, stroke,

that you can overcome everything if you practice just, you know, hundreds of hours.

So it wouldn't really matter.

You know, you can play by the book, but in the end, all that matters is how much time do you spend at the table.

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Like Shane.

Yeah, exactly.

Like when Shane delivers, he's arguably the greatest of all time.

One of the, it's in the conversation for the greatest of all time.

Five-time U.S.

Open player.

Hits the ball in a way that everybody tells you don't ever do it that way.

Yeah, exactly.

He stops at the cue ball.

Instead of following through and letting the cue ball like slide through, he stops at the cue ball.

He's very unique.

Same as Filipinos.

Filipino players, they have the unique style of play.

They're super fluent.

They're like dancing around the table.

But nobody plays like that.

Nobody else plays like that.

Yeah, it's interesting.

Again, as long as it's repeatable.

There's a lot of things like that.

If it's repeatable, if you can do it over and over and over again,

there are no rules.

No, I mean, they are written in the book.

But how could you say that Shane van Boding is doing it wrong?

Exactly.

It doesn't even make any sense.

Exactly.

He doesn't.

I mean, he's probably won more tournaments than anybody ever, right?

Who's won the most tournaments of all time?

I mean, that's a good question.

We were just talking about it this morning.

I think

Shane is definitely one of them.

It might be Shane.

It might be Shane.

Shane might be the greatest of all time right now.

Yeah.

I mean, that's what Jeremy Jones says is the greatest of all time.

That's his pick.

What's crazy with him, too, is the deaf aspect that he shuts his hearing aids off when he plays.

That must be amazing.

That should be illegal, by the way.

I mean, it should be.

Really?

I mean, that's...

Listen, man, life gives you lemons.

You eat lemonade.

I know.

The dude was born deaf.

That's fucked up.

It is.

It is.

But it's.

That's the advantage he gets.

You can shut them bitches off.

I mean, yeah.

I guess.

Come on, man.

You can't check to see if he has it on.

Like, Shane.

Shane.

I mean, do you think we're not checking?

We are checking.

Are you checking?

Oh, of course.

Do you say that?

The motherfucker has it off all the time.

How do you know when he has it off?

Well, because just before his match, he goes to his phone and puts it all the way down.

Oh,

so his phone, it's Bluetooth.

He can't control it.

So his hearing aid is Bluetooth.

Oh, yeah, he can control it by his phone.

Oh, that seems dirty.

Because you're not allowed to wear noise-canceling earbuds.

No, you're not.

Earl always wants that, but

they're not allowing him.

Yeah, I remember when Earl used to wear like gun sight glasses.

He used to wear glasses like the kind you wear at the range.

Yeah.

And then he was wearing headphones for a while, so they told him not to, like a pilot.

Yeah.

Like complete noise-canceling headphones.

Ones that look like they weigh five pounds.

Yeah.

And then he had, he's got weights that he wears around his waist sometimes.

He's definitely a character.

He puts weights on his elbow.

He puts tape around his fingertips.

And then he makes his cue as fat as my forearm with like whatever kind of tape he's using on it.

Yeah.

He runs five miles every day.

Does

hundreds of squats.

Oh, yeah.

He's fit.

Wow.

Well, I mean, he's not, he doesn't look very fit, but he works out every day or does something.

Is he the oldest guy that's still super competitive like how old's ralph sukay ralph sukay is still pretty competitive no earl is older than is he yeah right

so i think ralph sukay is actually like my age yeah and earl is like in his 60s so he's probably the oldest guy that's like playing competitively and winning yeah for sure yeah

it's a fucking game for young people son You gotta have them young eyes.

Cut that ball in.

For sure.

The eyes is everything.

Yeah.

How many guys do you you know that got LASIK surgery?

A few.

A few.

A lot of players wear contacts when they play,

but LASIK, LASIC has been the game changer for them for sure.

Now, are these young players that are coming up, are these guys embracing a healthier lifestyle?

Because one of the things about pool is like it's always been connected, at least when I was young, it was always connected to, especially the gambling, connected to a lot of partying, a lot of amphetamines,

cocaine, and then, you know, just...

Well, it's just changing.

It used to be just a game played at the bar.

Now it's a sport.

You know, I think

now in the U.S.,

everybody's taking the European approach.

More methodical, more disciplined, and they treat it as a sport.

Right.

Especially the younger generation.

You know, they see who is more successful on the tour.

And if you look at top 10 right now, every one of us, we try our best at everything, you know, when it comes to food, pre-match routines, how we practice, how we treat pool as a sport.

So I think, yes, definitely it's changing.

And that's that's why the pool is in a different place where it was.

Well, it's it's only because of the promotions, and they they deserve everything.

And then, of course, the players.

But without the promotions, like putting these events on and making them a big deal,

they wouldn't get all over YouTube.

It wouldn't get all over these social media sites.

But what Pooh really needs is something like

they had The Hustler in the 1960s made Pool explode.

And then they had The Color of Money in the 1980s made Pool explode.

They need something like that.

Two days ago, trailer on Netflix.

You haven't seen it?

No.

Netflix made a documentary about

Eddie and Barry Hearn.

I think it's about their family.

and their business.

And I think two or three episodes are about Poole.

Oh, well, that's good.

That'll help.

Yeah, that's really good.

That'll help.

Most of it is about box, I think, boxing, darts, and how they started the company, but pool is a big part of it.

Oh, they do darts too?

Dart, snooker,

fishing, I think.

And

fishing?

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

Like fishing tournaments?

Like that kind of shit?

Fisher mania, I think that's what it's called.

Fisher Mania?

It's like bass tournaments or something like that?

What are they catching?

I have no idea how that works.

I know Shane's a big fisherman, right?

Oh, yeah.

He goes lake trout fishing.

Ice fishing is his thing.

Yeah.

That's that's South Dakota mentality.

It's the most boring thing I think you can do.

It's not that bad.

You can't get ice all the day long.

It's actually kind of fun.

Freeze your ass off.

I did it a couple years ago.

I caught a trout.

I was pretty jazzed up.

Yeah,

if you catch something, then yeah, for sure.

It's pretty cool.

You know, like you're standing on ice, so you're kind of freaked out that you're standing on ice.

And then you use a drill to drill through the ice.

And then you know exactly how much is separating you from drowning.

So you only need a few inches.

But when I was doing it, it was about seven, seven, eight inches of ice.

So, what do you do?

Like you put a tent around you?

Yeah, most of the times, that's what guys do.

They put some kind of a tent around them, and then they get

a drill.

They go right into the ground, right through the ice, rather.

And then you have like a little net where you scoop out new ice that forms, and you just drop your line right down there in the hole.

That sounds real fun.

It's exciting.

It's exciting when you catch one.

Yeah.

I did fish a couple of times in my life, but

nothing really exciting for me.

The problem when you can play really good pool is really good pool is about as fun as anything.

Like really good, which is, I've always said that pool is like an art form that only the people that practice it can appreciate.

When you watch someone who plays really good, you're like, wow, that's beautiful.

Like, that's beautiful.

But to an average person, like, oh, he just made a bunch of easy shots.

Exactly.

Exactly.

You can't really see the beauty of fundamentals.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Positional play.

At least if you're explaining jiu-jitsu to someone, at least people kind of get it.

Oh, he's going to break his arm.

Like, oh,

he's choking him.

Oh, he's got his neck.

But

when you watch someone play pool and you don't understand how difficult that three-rail position was to get perfect on the four-ball, you're like, you watch, oh my God, that was amazing.

Or when they say, you know, he's in jail, he's hooked,

doesn't have a shot, you know, just people, regular people that probably don't understand.

They don't get it.

They don't get it.

And they never will.

It's just like you're going to have to play it to understand how hard it is what that person did.

The casual person doesn't understand, unfortunately.

So what we need is more people playing.

If more people play, then more people would watch people playing.

I think more people start playing.

I think so.

I think the game grew up quite a bunch the last couple of years.

Well, I know that the top golf people are going to do something like that for Pool.

That might be the thing.

You know those top golf guys?

Do you know what top golf is?

Yeah.

So top golf, you know, where they have this thing where you just whack the balls out into the...

Well, they're going to set something like that up for pool, where they have,

you know, some sort of a business where you go in and play pool and it's more attractive to young people.

I don't know exactly what their model is, because it's still going to be pool.

I mean, I don't think it's going to be a bunch of people just breaking the balls.

Because that's what they're doing when they're doing top golf.

They're just driving the ball, right?

I don't know exactly what their idea is, but the same guys who they realize, like, a lot of people play pool, a lot of people play pool in bars.

And if we had a really attractive place for people to play, and it's probably correct.

It's probably an untapped business because people are always looking for something fun to do on date nights.

Yeah, so what they do in China, for example, or somewhere, I've seen it in Asia.

They put like a projector above the table, and it gives you like all kinds of different games and interactions while you're playing.

What is it saying?

The venue, which is being backed by investors, including U.S.-based venture capital firm Sharp Alpha Advisors and the Daily Mail Investment Arm, DMG Ventures, uses pool tables, balls, and cues from the traditional game, but adds tracking technology and video projections to add bonus targets and obstacles in an attempt to appeal to larger groups.

Bonus targets and obstacles, huh?

Alongside its own venues and those operated by franchise partners, it's called Pool House.

Pool House plans to sell its equipment to pubs, bars, and other venues that want to update their existing pool tables.

Hmm.

Hopefully they can create a speed gun, too.

Yeah, so it says Steve, I don't know how to say his name,

Jalifi said.

More people play at top golf than on traditional golf courses in the U.S., and we aim to make an even greater impact on the world of pool.

We have a strong track record.

This project has been our most challenging endeavor yet.

Hmm.

Well, that's exciting.

Maybe that'll do it.

I never even heard of it.

Well, if you get a bunch of guys that are already really successful at doing that, with

the thing about golf, though, is like whacking a golf ball is really fun.

Yeah.

You know, it's and then if you have like a big open pit where you could just whack a golf ball, you got like 100 yards, you can see how far people could whack a golf ball, and then you got a net at the end of it.

Yeah, especially if you get it straight.

That's the most exciting thing.

A lot of people are going to do that.

Pool is like, you don't know how to make a bridge, you're you're holding your hand funny, and it's like moving weird your arm.

I wonder how many people are going to get frustrated.

I wonder if it's the same.

Actually,

it's probably, yeah, because I suck at driving a golf ball.

You know, I don't know.

I'm not good at it.

I've done it.

I've played top golf a couple of times.

I've gone to a driving range once.

It was fun.

But I'm not good at it.

Yeah, same as you.

But like, fucking Jamie over here, that dude's out in the garage every day whacking balls.

Every time I come here, he's out there whacking balls.

Yeah.

And so you realize like there really is like

there's a lot of technique just to the drive.

It's very similar probably to a brake shot in that regard.

Yeah, for sure.

Same.

Absolutely the same.

I wonder if they can make something like that

really marketable for Pool.

That might be it.

It has to be some type of interaction because I think it would be kind of boring

to just, you know whack balls pull balls the other thing that might make pool really big is big money like if the Saudis get involved and they get crazy and they start saying okay this this tournament's for three million dollars well we have we have now the world championships is the biggest tournament we have on tours in saudi right what's the what's the first place 250 000 pretty good 25 million would be better yeah for sure imagine that for sure so those guys have so much money they could spend 25 million bucks and it'd be like nothing they probably spent more than that on production.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know if they spent more for that.

They throw so much money around in boxing.

It's kind of banana.

Boxing, for sure.

For sure.

And that's where Matchroom is really

helping

because they have those deals for multi-sports.

They make a deal for boxing, and that involves snooker and pool.

Right.

So they have the snooker tournament in Saudi.

They have the boxing event going on.

Yeah, you got to get that oil money involved, son.

Those dudes throw some money around.

Because it's like when people talk about the richest people in the world they're like

really

because their money isn't public like they don't have to disclose how much money they make yeah they're kings okay like they probably laugh like oh silly elon thinks he's number one you know

with his paltry 400 billion dollars you know he's basically a pauper yeah to those people.

So like they've they've thrown an insane amount of money into boxing.

I think

it hasn't been confirmed, so I need to know whether this is true or not.

But I think Usik made

more than $100 million in his last defense against Daniel Dubois.

And I think Dubois made in the 70s.

He made somewhere around 70.

I think they said Usik made like $130-something, which is crazy.

$130 million for a fight.

That's crazy.

Bananas.

What do you think if Pool goes that route?

Just one-on-one matches.

That would be exciting.

If it's it's for big, big, big, big, big money like that.

I mean, if you ever saw a pool match, you imagine shooting a nine-ball Hill Hill for $100 million.

No, I can't.

Could you imagine?

I was shooting the nine ball for $250,000 once you.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When I was straight in.

Yeah.

That was crazy.

What was that like?

I mean, it was a crazy match against Kachi.

We played the World Championships Finals.

He went on the Hill first.

Yeah, it was Hill Hill.

Hill Hill, he scratches.

I get ball in hand, shaking like a leaf.

Were you?

Oh, yeah.

It was incredible.

I mean, that's the biggest turn we've ever had.

Right.

Biggest turn I've ever had in my career.

You know, we only have so many tournaments that pay those kind of money.

And it's really difficult not to think about it when you're playing.

Yeah.

And yeah, that's definitely the highlight of my career.

You know, making that tough eight-ball.

I mean, it wasn't tough, but the

positional play was tough because I had to go up and down with the key ball and I landed right where I wanted to be.

So I was straight in the nine ball.

No pressure at all.

That's a good one for people to watch it.

They're like, what is this all about?

Watch that one.

Watch that one and know that they're playing for $250,000.

Yep.

I mean, second place paid $100,000, so it was a $150,000 difference.

That's a lot.

It is a lot for one rack.

And for one nine-ball.

Yeah.

That's the beautiful thing about nine-ball.

You could run everything and then chunk that nine.

Yeah, game over.

It's such a mental game.

It's a game of millimeters, really.

You know, single roll this way, that way, and you're hooked.

Yeah.

Or you're on the right side of the ball, wrong side of the ball.

I was listening to John Schmidt do commentary once, and he was saying how crazy it is.

If you really think about it, every other sport that involves a ball, it's like something is hitting the ball.

It's like you have a bat hitting the ball, or it's like no other sport has a ball hitting a ball.

And then trying to be like really accurate over distance

and then making that ball move around and get perfect for the next ball.

Like even golf, you're hitting a ball.

It's very difficult, but you're hitting a ball.

You're not hitting a ball with a ball.

That's a whole nother element.

So you think full is the most difficult sport

in that regard?

It might be snooker.

Excuse me.

Snooker.

Snooker is boring.

Oh, I don't think it's boring.

I think when you get a guy who's really good who plays, you know.

I think it's really difficult when it comes to, like, how difficult is it to execute the shot because the the balls are smaller,

the cues are thinner, the ball uh the pockets are tinier, you know, the table is bigger, too.

If you watch Ronnie Sullivan play, you can't think that that's boring.

Of course.

I mean, if of course you have players

like Roni, I mean, you can never, you can never th say that it's boring.

Yeah.

But I think the game itself, it's just too much safety, it's nothing shots here and there.

Yeah, but it's because it's so hard and because it's so big, it's a 12-foot fucking table, which is crazy.

And the pockets are tiny and the balls are tiny.

It's a really hard game.

But when you watch a guy like Ronnie and he doesn't miss for like 30, 40 shots in a row, you're like, this is crazy.

What's really crazy about snooker is there's only you know, four or five countries that really play that game, but it's a lot bigger than pull.

Really?

Pool is a lot more international.

If you look at the majors that Metro have, look at the last 64, the last 32, you will have 20 different countries represented.

So that's interesting that snooker is bigger.

Like, how much do they make?

I know they were making gigantic money in the UK.

Is that still happening, or has it died down a little?

Well, most of the majority of the tournaments are in the UK, I think.

There's a lot of them happening now in China as well.

But I think really Scotland, Ireland, Wales, UK, China,

that's about it.

And a few European players.

And they make, I would say, you know, the top top guys.

They make over $2, $3 million a year.

Do you remember the scandal?

There was a scandal with one of the players a few years back where they got him on hidden camera saying that he'd be willing to dump a match.

Oh, yeah.

There was a lot of Chinese guys that got banned for it, too.

Oh, really?

For dumping a match.

That's the problem with gambling.

Yeah.

Right.

When gambling gets involved, and you realize, like, if you get your friends to bet on the other guy.

That's the problem with, I guess, getting the bookies to be involved in tournaments as well.

Because when the prize money are not big, you will have players

thinking, you know,

winning the tournament is nice, but I don't have to win that.

I can just lose my round one, go to the loser side, and take a free shot at those 100,000 real fast.

Yeah.

That's unfortunate.

But is that part of the thing of not having the kind of money that golf has?

Because I doubt that people that play golf are dumping on purpose.

Because there's so much money on the line.

Yeah.

They don't have to.

Yeah, they don't have to.

But when you the difference between like winning and losing is so huge and then you can gamble on it and then you have friends and you tell your friends like, listen, bet on him.

Yeah.

And I'm going to make sure I lose.

It's like it's too easy to make money that way.

Yeah, but also I'm pretty sure they're always

investigating.

Every big bet is investigated, I'm pretty sure.

I'm sure.

But you don't have to do big bets.

No, you don't have to.

It could be multiple.

And you can have

some offshore accounts.

Yeah, it could be.

Especially if you're doing it online.

You use a VPN.

I'm I'm bit gambling from Vietnam, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah, you can find ways, I'm sure.

But yeah, I mean, it's uh it's the problem.

Yeah.

Shady businesses, man.

Yeah.

But that's also kind of the fun part of pool, too, is that these places are kind of shady.

Like,

they're like

the outcasts of society.

You know, if you go and you watch the finals of the Florida Open, you look in the crowd, there's a lot of outcasts in there, a lot of Android phones.

Yeah, it's a lot of outcasts.

It's a lot of people that have spent a giant chunk of their life in pool rooms.

And the thing about pool is, if you really get into it, you're playing it eight hours a day.

Yeah.

You have to.

Yeah.

If you want to get good at it, you have to.

It's the only way.

Yeah.

And it makes a giant difference.

And a lot of people fall in love with a game really fast.

And if you do, then you don't want to quit it.

Yeah.

And

you just hit balls for hours and hours and hours.

I was playing my friend Jake the other day, and I said, to get really good at pool, you kind of have to be a piece of shit.

Because

this is why.

You don't have to.

I mean, obviously you're not.

And, you know, and you're lucky that your wife plays pool, which is huge as well.

Oh, yeah.

Because

if she didn't, like, you know where to find me because I'm going to be playing.

Sorry.

Like, you're going to ignore most of your responsibilities.

But it's also really good at pool.

It's really tough.

Oh, yeah.

Personal life, especially with the schedule that we have now, like first half of the year was okay.

But now it's just back-to-back.

Like, even after this tournament, I have Texas Open starting on Wednesday.

From that, I go to China, then I go to Vietnam for three weeks, from there, I go to the Philippines for two weeks.

Do you think the people in the Philippines are gonna be mad at you still when you get there?

Oh, for sure, for sure.

Reyes Cup, that's gonna be another one.

Oh, no, Reyes Cup is now the rest of the world against Team Asia.

That's happening in Manila.

So, they already told you.

All the comments, if you see, like, yeah, wait until you come to Manila, we're gonna welcome you with open arms.

Oh, no,

yeah, I'm gonna get it, but uh, that's gonna be fun, I'm sure.

Yeah, hopefully it doesn't, someone doesn't get crazy.

But yeah, that schedule's nuts.

Yeah, so it's really tough to balance, you know, pool, personal life, family.

Family, it's almost impossible.

If you have kids and you have to take them to softball games and stuff, like that's why I said, if you want to be really good at pool, you have to be a piece of shit.

Well, hopefully I don't have to.

You don't.

I mean, listen, obviously there's examples of people that keep it together that are really good, that still have a family, and,

you know, spend time with their family, spend time with their kids.

But you're going to have to manage your time because you're going to have to

get those hours in.

If you're not playing, like, legitimately, realistically, if you want to be a top-flight world-class player, what is the minimum amount of hours you think you have to play every day?

I think somebody said that you have to spend 10,000 hours to get good at anything.

But I think in pull, it probably is more.

Yeah, I think it's probably a little more

because it's

it's really

complex.

Yeah, because if you're talking about like top, top professional player, it's not just practicing.

You know,

you will have to start traveling and playing tournaments.

You will have to start playing and sparing with somebody.

Sparring.

Sparring, yeah.

And

then you have to gain experience from those tournaments.

It's going to take a lot of time.

Yeah.

And

but I guess it's like anything that's worth doing.

You know, if you wanna get good.

That's one of the the reasons why it's so fun is because you know how hard it is to do.

Yeah.

If it was easy to master, I think people would probably pick it up and then they'd eventually quit.

But the problem with the thing about pool is it take a week off and then play again and your arm's like, what do we do here?

Like,

it seems all screwy.

It doesn't want to listen for the first hour or so.

And then you finally get back in the groove again.

It's because it's so difficult that it makes it so attractive.

That's why people get stuck playing it eight, ten hours a day.

If it was easier to play, you wouldn't play it as much.

Right.

Right.

And I mean, for me, the big thing is I just always have to do something.

I have to always hit balls because

there are so many good players now.

So many good players.

And if I just stop for a moment or if I focus on something else, for I don't know, short period of time, even,

they'll just catch me.

Isn't that nuts?

It is.

It's driving me crazy, but I just can't stop.

I just can't stop.

How does it drive you crazy?

Do you wake up in the morning and feel like people nipping at your heels?

Well, like, for example, now I know that Yap, for example, Ozius Yap, he won the UK Open.

Florida Open,

and the U.S.

Open.

He won the U.S.

Open.

He won the three out of the last four big tournaments we've had.

Which is crazy.

Yeah, which is, it's really, really tough to be dominant in our sport.

Almost impossible.

But

he's just proving that it is possible.

And he was on the losing end of the match that I think I've probably watched the most over the last year.

And if you Google it, you can find it on YouTube.

Just Google Nine Ball Perfection.

And it's Ko Ping Chung, who's one of my favorite players, outside of you, of course, to watch.

That guy is so smooth.

There's something about those guys from Taiwan.

I don't know what their methodology is in their training, but

they have this like smooth kind of effortless stroke that's like hypnotizing to watch.

And that dude never missed a single ball in an 11-match defeat.

He beat him by 11 to nothing, never missed a ball, pocketed every shot he aimed at, and never gave him a shot other than the opening shot.

He had one shot at the beginning of the match, a long-ass two-ball.

He didn't make it, and then he was fucked.

Yeah.

Which is crazy.

And that's Yap.

That's the guy who just won the last three tournaments, which is so nuts about this sport, is that if the guy's winning and it's winner break, you might not ever play.

For sure.

You never know.

Like, look at today, you and me.

There's like five or six games where I'm just like standing there.

I'm just waiting for you to miss.

You're not missing, and so I don't play.

You're not missing, and I don't play.

But at a world-class level, when you're doing that in the U.S.

Open and it's on TV and people are cheering every time you pocket a nine-ball, that's bananas.

Yeah, that

rarely happens.

But

it was a very, very special moment, I think, because that video went viral everywhere.

That dude got in the zone.

And if you can appreciate the zone, you got to watch that video.

Even if you only played pool casually.

That's the only shot the other guy missed?

Yeah, this is it.

This is Yap.

And, boy, he chunked it, too.

Yeah, he did.

He fucked it up.

But when you watch this guy, this guy, Ko Ping Chung, who weighs 100 pounds.

This is not an easy opening shot either.

No, it's got three ball combination rail first.

It's crazy.

But then from this out, he just never misses.

And you watch this guy, like, watch how fucking smooth this character is.

And again, the dude weighs 100 pounds, soaking wet.

The Q is half his body weight.

And he just

gently hits everything just so smooth and effortless.

I remember this match because I was waiting for this match in the finals.

I was watching it in the steakhouse.

And it was pretty painful for me to watch it.

Was it?

Well, I mean, you don't want to have somebody just not make a single mistake and play you in the finals, you know?

It's just hurting your confidence a little bit.

And the reality is, you would think, well, this guy's going to win everything from here on out.

But no.

No.

That's what's so crazy about this sport as good as this guy is and as competitive as he look how he hit that with follow yeah that's crazy to get out for the two in the corner that's masterful shit that was really dangerous to play that shot i have no idea why would you even play well he's got ice water in his veins man i'm telling you the we were talking about this before but there's a match from 2018 where he plays shane van boning at the derby and it's shane's on the hill it's

10 to 6 and you you think, oh, Shane's going to win this.

And he runs five games and out on them.

And they're crazy outs.

Like, he starts with this bananas cut shot on the four-ball to get three-rail position.

You're like, what is he doing here?

Like, no, the commentators don't even know what he's doing.

Is he ducking?

Yeah.

And he fires it in.

You're like, no way.

Like, that was another, that was John Schmidt was doing the commentary for you.

I'm a big fan of Ko Brothers.

You know, they're genuinely good people, and they're putting a lot of work.

And it's just amazing to watch them play as well.

They play so good.

They play so good.

And it's also interesting to me that these guys still play with those solid wood shafts.

Like we were talking about that earlier.

It's like new technology has gotten into the game and a lot of players like yourself play with carbon fiber.

But it's interesting that a lot of these guys from Taiwan in particular, they still go with those wooden shafts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

I don't know.

I know that the industry went to carbon fibers maybe four or five years ago.

And maybe some companies were kind of like pushing the players.

You know, you kind of have to make a switch.

But I don't think that's the case now.

Because now,

for example, I find that maybe

advantageous to play with the wooden shaft when you're playing in like a sticky, sticky pool room in Asia.

where the humidity level is super high.

Why not?

Just because, I don't know, you can move the ball around easier, or at least I found it easier.

Easier, interesting.

Why easier?

Because I've heard the opposite.

I've heard it's carbon moves the ball easier.

Not in a really sticky condition.

I think when we play, for example, metro tournaments, everything is brand new cloth, brand new rails, brand new balls, everything's slick, perfect conditions.

Then I think carbon fiber is perfect.

But I think that's the reason why the agents prefer wood as well, because the humidity level is just

over over top.

It's really, really bouncy.

And that's that's what they they used to play back in the day, I guess, and that's what he referred to this day.

It's such a mind fuck, though, isn't it?

Because it's like it's all really what you have confidence with.

Obviously, anybody could play really good with carbon fiber, or anybody rather who can play really good with carbon fiber could play really good with wood.

It's just get it into your head what this this cue does, the way it feels, the kind of deflection it has.

Yeah, it's a lot of things.

You put it in the brain computer after X amount of months of playing with that cue and you know what it does.

Yeah,

I've been experimenting with cues.

Maybe not as much as you did, but

I've started testing cues for the company that I was working.

I'm working with right now, Triple Sixty.

We've been doing testing for three years.

So I know everything about the foams, the wall thickness, what the material of the ferrule, the hardness of your tip, the weight, the balance.

So there's so many different things that will change the way the shaft plays.

And then there's also butt.

There's so many different things.

It's like a magic wand.

Yeah.

You have to try.

You have to try so many things before you actually understand what you like and what you're looking for.

And

it's not an easy process, I would say.

I remember I was going on one of my rocking hikes where I put a weighted vest on and I go...

for a walk with the dog and you and I were on the phone and

this is how I remember this because

I was walking through this

wooded area, and you were telling me that the difference between your old Q and your new Q, you said there's a difference of about 5%.

And I was like, 5%?

Like, how do you know it's 5%?

You're like, all the balls that I've pocketed, when I think about what it does and what it doesn't do, I think my game is about 5% off.

I'm like, that.

I think actually, well, with the new Q, I was winning a lot more.

So I used to, I used to put it.

But this is like right when you first changed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, since then, since then, I was winning.

Yeah.

So

I guess it was the true.

Well, it's...

You made it to your specifications.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's the thing I've got.

I can play with a longer shaft because I have longer arms, long fingers.

I do prefer a longer taper, which doesn't really exist on the market.

So I created the shaft with the longer taper.

Especially for shots like off the rail.

Let's say one,

the cue ball is one diamond distance off the rail.

That's where you feel that change in the taper thickness.

We have the straight taper in our shaft.

What is the difference in the feel?

What do you feel differently?

For example, the pro taper or the conical taper, you can feel the change of the thickness

the closer you go to the pin.

Right.

We don't have that.

Our shaft is straight.

And so that way it doesn't give additional resistance as the shot gets further, like as your bridge gets longer?

Right.

You just don't feel the change in thickness.

It's mine-fucky game.

Yeah.

It is.

And then we can go to deflection.

The deflection is another thing.

There's so much science behind that that I don't even know where to start.

Well, deflection is interesting too because some people use it to their advantage, certain deflection, like Ko, because his cue has a lot of deflection.

Didn't you say you hit some balls with it?

Yeah, yeah.

Basically, you have to aim to miss the ball to make the ball.

Doesn't make any sense.

I don't know why players prefer that, but a lot of players do.

I think it just gets it in their head how to play, and then they've been playing that way for so long that it's just automatic.

Like if they hit a ball with heavy left-hand English, they know it's going to go off to the right.

So they hit it more full with heavy left-hand English because they know by the time the QL gets there, so they have it in their head.

Right.

You know, it's just like a little computer in your brain.

It's like, okay, this distance, I got to aim here.

This dense is, I'm going to aim here.

Well,

in my case, I also have that.

We also have

little deflection.

But when it's just too much, it gets really, really difficult.

Especially, like I said, when we play on shot clock,

pressure out there, and you have to pull one crazy shot, and that's hill-hill.

So the argument

against that would be the difference with wood is, though, you get a superior feel.

You do get a weird difference in the feedback of the cue.

And some people get very accustomed to that wood feedback and they describe a carbon feedback as more dull.

Like you don't get the same sensations.

You almost don't get no feedback.

So I think those guys...

the feedback in their hand is a part of the equation in their mind of where that ball is going to go.

So when you say feedback, is it like a vibration that you get in your hand by the time you hit the ball?

It's just a different feel.

Like, they all have a different feel, right?

Like, we were talking about Southwest, which are some of my favorite cues of all time.

They have a solid butt.

They're not cord, right?

And so,

they're usually generally a little heavier unless they're maple.

Sometimes they'll get lower, but you very rarely see like an 18-ounce Southwest.

You see a lot of 20-ounce Southwest because they're ebony or Cocobull or something like that, really heavy.

But they have a very specific thunk to them.

Yeah, sound.

This is like a feel.

And you don't get that feel with carbon.

You get a different feel.

So if you can get used to that different feel, it is

like there's something to it.

You definitely, the ball moves less off the line.

Also, I mean, like I said, there's so many different environments we play in.

For example, we play in China in a pool hole with dirty cloth and it's super muggy and the rails are playing super spongy and bouncy.

You would prefer one cue compared to the other one.

Yeah.

And you go to, I don't know, Saudi Arabia where it's super dry and it's perfect conditions, everything's slick and brand new.

I prefer carbon fiber in that case.

So maybe, I don't know, five years, ten years from now, we will have different cues for different shots.

Right, like a golf

clear.

Could be the case.

And some players already do that they use some cues for example when they stay close to the vertical uh center of the cue ball they use one cue and when they use side spins they use the other cue really yeah some players they bring who's doing that mario he was doing that really uh yeah he brought two different cues yeah to saudi arabia last year uh i think some other players do that for example what i do i put the extension on the back of my queue for some shots

i play without the extensions for certain other shots how much does your extension weigh uh it's super light, like 1.5.

So that gets you up to like, what, nineteen five as opposed to eighteen?

Is that what you play with?

You play with nineteen ounces?

Oh, so it gets you like to twenty and a half.

Twenty and a half.

So do you like the additional weight for like a shot where you have to really stay down?

I just use it for like balance purposes for longer shots.

For example, when like I said, I'm one diamond off the rail and I have a long shot where I g want to have like a long follow through.

I just simply don't have enough of my cue on the back.

Got it.

So I add an extra length.

But

you know,

it's

lonely at the top, buddy.

It is.

There's only a few guys that you could have those kind of matches with now.

Yeah.

Well, next one will be probably Josh Frieler.

You think so?

We're trying to make it happen.

Is he interested?

I think he was,

but he's not really responding to messages really well lately.

I think he was interested, so he had a guy who was willing to back him for a lot of money.

And

they said, well, we have to do it in this place with these rules.

This is how it needs to be done.

Where was that?

Where did they want to do it?

They wanted to play it.

In Germany?

No, they wanted to play it in Vegas.

Oh.

Like to say it's a neutral territory.

Vegas is good.

Where would you go?

To Griffs?

Yeah, I think they wanted to do it in Griffs.

Great place.

Good place, yeah.

Oh, you don't like it?

I mean,

they wanted to like uh high-roll me.

They said you we w we play in Vegas, you got a bet about like uh half a million

and something like that.

Uh but what I really wanted to do is basically what we did with Shane, you know, like a $50,000 bet, uh

play race to one twenty.

Half a million's a lot.

And what I really offered him was to play multiple disciplines.

We play like an all-around, we'd play eight-ball, nine-ball, ten-ball, or was it it nine ball, ten ball, one pocket, and bangs.

That's what I offer them.

Oh.

What if you d a draw?

In case of a draw, we play uh another set.

But you know what I'm saying?

If you have four games, you have to play three games.

I mean, I'm not playing to lose, so

the more the better.

What would you race to at each game?

I mean, it would have to be something we can fit in within eight to ten hours.

So maybe race to thirty and ten ball, race to thirty and nine ball, race to ten in one pocket, and race to 10 in bangs.

I think it's a good format.

People will like to watch that, I'm sure.

And it's good for the game.

It's good for our sporting.

It's tough to get people, casuals, to watch regular pool.

Getting them to watch One Pocket, they'd rather jump in front of a bus.

I agree.

Well, you don't like the One Pocket.

You don't like it.

I watch it.

My poor fans like it for sure.

Yeah.

What was the last one I watched?

Justin Bergman played someone for a lot of money.

Yeah, he played the guy

what's his name little John and he was giving him a crazy spot right yeah and he lost oh no he won Justin won Justin yeah but it was close it was really close yeah

everybody liked the other guy it was a nutty spot I forget what the spot was

11-6 because I gave that guy 12-6 oh did you yeah we actually played not too long ago in New Orleans

How'd that go?

I won.

Nice.

Congratulations.

Do you like One Pocket?

Would you prefer or do you just play it because people want to gamble it?

I think I like it because it's a good gambling game.

I don't like the game itself.

I think the new modifications they make in the game where you have to re-spot the balls.

For example, if you get more than four balls past the kitchen, the fifth ball gets re-spotted back to the spot.

So it makes the game more

alive, more dynamic.

So you don't get those wedges where 15 balls go up table and people just play nothing shots for hours.

Right.

So it's more dynamic.

And also Derby, for example, has shot clock.

I think one pocket has to be played with shot clock.

How much time they give you?

At Derby, it's one minute.

If you could make the perfect nine-ball shot clock, what would it be?

I think it's good to where it's at right now.

30 seconds.

30 seconds.

30 seconds with a 30-second extension.

Yeah.

Man.

Because

if you make it any shorter, it's going to be really difficult.

Shorter is too difficult.

But I mean, the 40-second, like just a touch, just a touch more to think about it.

I think it's good where it's at.

It's difficult when you have to switch cues.

You have no extension.

For example, you jumped, so that's why you see us grabbing both of our cues and running out there, throwing your jump, throwing your cue on the side, and switching.

It's really difficult sometimes.

That's another shot that people hate that you got to leave in is the jump cue.

When you jumped out, I love it.

You jumped out so many times during this U.S.

Open.

There were so many times you got hooked where you pop that ball in.

And

if you can't appreciate that on tight pockets, a beautiful shot where it goes airborne and fires right into the hole and then you get positioned on the next ball.

Yeah, I think it's great.

I think those that are voting against it are those that can do it.

Yeah,

there's a lot of old school guys who just...

They get set in their ways and they think that's a stupid cue.

It's a little tiny cue.

Fuck that thing.

But

why are they different golf clubs?

Because there's different shots.

Why do you break with a different cue?

Because it's a different shot.

Of course.

Come on.

Of course.

I think it's what gets actually new people to watch it because it's exciting.

Oh, look, this guy jumped over this ball.

He was this close to the ball.

It's amazing.

It's like a trick shot.

And then also, it's like the cues that people are jumping with today, they're designed so well for that.

Yeah.

Like, I really like that Q-Tech one.

That's, I think, my favorite one.

That one is and you helped design that, right?

Yeah, I was involved.

I was involved, yes.

But not anymore.

Not anymore.

I'm with a different company.

Now we're starting a new brand.

I will be starting my own brand really soon.

When do you think that's going to be available?

My personal job to you?

Yeah.

Probably

I would say if everything goes by the plan, maybe first quarter of next year.

So that's the thing with Pool 2.

It's like when you see a guy who plays really good, everybody wants to play with whatever the fuck he's playing with.

Right.

So it's one of,

for a sport and a game, it's like one of the

most marketable in that regard because almost everybody, when they find someone who's like, whether it's Efren or like, that's why so many companies like Mucci was sponsoring everybody back in the day because when these guys were playing and they were winning, everybody just wanted to go out and buy a Mucci.

Because it's like there's a mind

Tennis, then is the same, or golf.

You just want to have the same tennis record as Roger Fedder.

But don't you think there's a giant variety in the way those things hit as opposed to a way tennis rackets hit?

I don't know because I don't play tennis, but it looks the same.

Whereas like the way pool cues are manufactured, the differences in the weight, the differences in the taper, the differences in the shaft composition, whether it's wood or carbon fiber or...

for sure.

And I think

when it comes down to like a playing cue, then it's really, really personal.

You know, some players like softer hits, some players like hotter hits, but when it comes to a jump cue,

it just comes down to how effortless

the jump cue does the job.

Right.

And how much, how accurate you can be.

How accurate you can be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you have like a mental checklist that you go through before you execute a shot?

Do you have like a pre-shot mental preparation?

I do a lot of breathing, breathing technique.

So for example, I would breathe in on four counts, then I hold it for like four or five, and then I'd breathe out for like seven, eight seconds to calm myself down.

Do you do that when you're sitting in the chair?

Yeah, I do that all the time when I'm sitting in the chair.

Usually I would do like a loud breathe out when I'm at the table sometimes, just let it out.

And I kind of started to show emotions too because I just feel that's okay.

You know, before I used to be like, you know, I don't, I can't show any emotions because it's weakness.

But now I just the Russian way.

I just don't care now.

You're American now.

Yeah.

I'm fully Americanized now.

That's interesting.

It's showing emotions.

Well, I definitely think that's the case when someone misses.

Because when someone misses and then they whack the table with their stick, boy, that that empowers the other player.

Yeah, of course.

It definitely does.

Of course.

And that's what some of the coaches that I've worked with in my childhood, they were all telling me, you know, don't show any emotion.

You don't want to show any weakness to your opponent.

They're going to be feeding off of it.

And that's what kind of got stuck with.

But I'm just glad that I'm out of it right now.

Well, it's the most, I think, and Jeremy Jones and I were talking about this.

I think it's the most mental game because there's this moment of pulling the trigger, this moment where you're making sure that everything aligns and you just kind of keep your mind on on task and keep focused on the object ball.

Do you look at the cue ball before you strike or the object ball?

So it really depends on the distance between the object and cue ball.

For example, if it's when it's close to each other, object ball and the cue ball, I look at the cue ball list.

When it's long distance, I look at the object ball list.

Why is that?

That's just how I find it

working for me.

You know, it's another thing that's very personal for other players.

You know, I think most of the people look at the cue ball less,

but I just prefer the object ball works better for me.

It's interesting because it is a preference thing.

Yeah, so definitely a personal preference.

I feel like if you have the straight stroke, if your

stroke is straight, you will always hit the cue ball where you're intending to hit it.

So it's more about where you're going to hit it on the object ball.

There's a guy named Joel Turner who is, I don't know if I talked to you about this guy.

He used to

be,

well, he was a sniper for

rescue missions with the police where someone had a hostage and he would have to execute shots under extreme pressure.

And

he was also a bow hunter.

And he realized that there were certain mistakes that he was making.

And a lot of people are making bow hunting that had to do with anticipating the shot and anxiety before you pull the trigger.

And that the way to work around that is to have a pre-shot routine in your mind where you're talking to yourself loudly in your head.

And you develop this pre-shot routine with very specific things that you say to yourself.

You say, like, here I go.

Like, you know, whatever.

whatever different things.

He's got a bunch of different steps that he said, where he's talking to himself, like, center your peep site.

There's like a bunch of things in that track.

I have almost the same.

That's what I wanted to ask you.

Visualization and meditation is really big.

So, what do you say to yourself?

Like, when you're about

my biggest demon in my head, is I'm just scared to miss the ball.

I'm just, you know, when I'm down on the shot, sometimes my brain goes, Well, you're going to miss the shot.

What are you doing?

You're going to miss it for sure.

Like, the way you're aiming the shot, you're going to miss it for sure.

So, if my thing is just telling to my brain that I have to stay positive, no, I'm going to fucking make this ball.

I'm making this ball,

bitch.

And I,

uh, it works for me.

Yeah.

Well, if you think you're going to miss, you will miss.

Yeah.

And it 100% works like that.

What I was getting at is that I found a giant crossover between that and archery.

In that, it's the same thing.

Like, if you think you're going to miss in archery, you're going to miss.

And if you think you're going to miss in pool, you're going to miss.

Right.

Yeah.

It just works like that.

It is.

It's crazy.

It's like your subconscious tells you to miss.

And it's almost like the pressure is too much, so you alleviate some of the pressure by anticipating the miss in advance.

Right.

It's weird.

So that's my question to you is like, what is the process that you go through to fight that off?

It's just saying, I'm going to make that fucking ball.

Well, yeah, it's an experience already.

You have to miss a few shots to understand

why that happened.

Right.

And I did lose a few big ones like that.

For example, I played Josh Filler in Germany and the European Open.

It was a really, really big match.

You know, the whole crowd crowd is cheering for him.

Quarterfinals of the European Open, and I landed on the 9-ball really weird, but I'm still a big favorite to make the shot.

It was like an off-angle.

I was shooting from the rail.

Quarterfinals of the European Open, and I was up 9-8,

race to 10, and I missed the 9-ball just because I knew that I was going to miss the ball.

Same things happened in Saudi.

I was up 10-3.

I think it was last 16.

I'm almost straight on the 9-ball, but I just know that I'm going to miss the ball.

Oh, no.

I just know that.

And I'm down on the shot and I know the shot clock is running on me.

I'm like, no way.

I just can't get up.

I just can't get up.

I don't have enough time.

So I missed the ball.

I'm glad that I've won the match and

I ran the next rec, but it's just weird how that works.

So

now you have those experiences and then what do you do when that's over?

When you go, okay, that can't happen again.

I got to make sure that

that mindset never creeps into my head again.

So you just have to switch your focus to your fundamentals.

That's what helps me.

For example, Nick Vandenberg, he used to be a big player back in the day in the Netherlands.

He would practice sitting on his couch for hours, just practice

visualization, just practice on the table.

He would imagine himself practicing in the pool hole, like straight in shots.

He wouldn't even go and practice.

Whoa.

That's weird.

That's a weird dude.

Yeah.

But it worked for him.

Well, there's a lot of science to that

in terms of studies that have been done about visualization and the improvement.

And they found that actual real visualization, when you're really sitting down there and visualizing, counts almost as much as practice.

And in some cases, more.

And no one knows why.

Well, visualization is really big for us.

For example, you're never going to win the tournament without believing that you can actually win it.

Right.

And you can only believe that you can win if you can only

visualize that you won that tournament.

Right.

Which is why I say that this is like the most mental of games.

Yeah.

You know, it is, it's such a weird dance that goes in your head.

Like sometimes with and again, I'm not a good player.

I'm half-assed.

But sometimes I play really good.

Like if I get like six hours, two or three days in a row, I can get in stroke and I start running racks.

But when I'm not, and then I go to execute, there's like this thing in my head that like right when I'm about to aim at the, like right when I'm about to pull the trigger, my head goes, don't hit it there, hit it here.

And you're like, okay.

At a touch of outside.

And I do it and I miss.

I'm like, why did you change where you were going to hit it?

Like last minute.

What the fuck is that?

And I've been playing pool for 30-something years.

But sometimes that works.

And you're like, I'm glad I did that.

Yeah, rarely.

Most of the times I miss.

Most of the times when I change where I'm going to hit last second, I miss.

But we all do that.

Yeah.

Or when I think, I'm not going to be this accurate.

Let me aim to overcut it.

And then I'm like, oh, my God, you overcut it all the length of the table, you fucking idiot.

If you just accurately hit where you thought you were going to hit, you would have made that ball.

It's this weird...

But that's why I love the game.

Because when you're really playing pool, the world goes away.

It goes away.

You're not thinking about anything.

You're not thinking about global warming.

You're not thinking about shit.

You're not thinking about inflation, how much eggs cost.

You're not thinking about shit.

The world goes away when you're on that table.

When you're playing, the world goes away.

That's what I like about archery, and that's what I like about pool.

They have the same quality to them, and that to do it correctly is so difficult that it requires all of your mind.

I agree.

I totally agree with you.

And unlike chess, which also requires all of your mind, pool has the added element that you have to execute.

You have to pull it off under pressure with a shaky hand.

It's kind of like a mix of chess with,

I don't know, golf, I would say.

Yeah.

Well, I think it's just its own thing.

Well, it's an old thing for sure.

It's its own thing.

It's very different than any of those other things, even though I don't play either one of them.

It's very different than any of those other things.

And when people get into it, man, it takes their whole fucking life over.

I remember my manager had to have a conversation with me once.

When I lived in New York, he was like, I think you're spending more time playing pool than you are in your career.

I'm like, fuck, he's right.

He was right.

I took a whole year off.

I didn't play for a whole year.

And then I came to LA and I started playing a little bit again.

I was like, God, he got me again.

It just sunk its teeth right back in me.

Hell yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The amount of cues you have is crazy.

And now when I'm like, if I'm talking to someone and they're boring, I just think about playing pool.

I think about getting out.

I think about here, here, you're here.

It's like my default brain.

It falls into these.

But it's not really about the game.

It is about the game for sure.

But what it's really about is sinking your mind to something.

That's where the true joy comes in, sinking your mind to something and then executing it to perfection.

I think it's

some kind of a mental exercise, like akin to cardio, akin to lifting weights.

There's a mental exercise to it.

Also the enjoyment from developing a skill and you just know how hard it is.

I think the enjoyment is even bigger in that regard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a game that I really wish more people would appreciate.

I wonder how many people are still listening to this podcast that are just regular people.

They're like, what the fuck?

Is he going to fucking talk about pool with this guy for three hours?

Yep, this one's not for you.

But that's the beauty of having four podcasts a week.

You can throw one of them entirely at pool.

But for pool players, there's a lot of people that get it.

It's not like anything else.

And

in this weird world of non-physical things, in this weird world of virtual things, of playing video games and of being connected with computers, and which is all very very fun those are all really fun to do

there's a kinetic aspect to playing pool

that

I think a lot of people forgot how satisfying and rewarding it is and how

how intriguing the game is you know and that's why I always chime on about it I think I think it's good for you.

Yeah, for sure.

And actually, the way, for example, Vietnam marketed pool is they started opening pool rooms with computer clubs in the same building.

Oh, so that's

like a computer cafe type deal?

Type of thing, yeah.

But the huge ones, huge ones.

They have pool rooms with hundreds of tables.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, Vietnam.

Vietnam right now is probably the most pool-playing country in the world.

Wow.

And how long ago did this start?

Maybe three, four years ago, really.

That's crazy.

What made it explode in Vietnam like that?

I had no idea.

For example, Hanoi Open, the first major we had in Vietnam three years ago.

I had no idea or any expectations going to the event.

But I always knew that I had some fans because on Facebook, like 40% of my followers are from Vietnam, which always

seemed weird.

40%?

Yeah.

Now

it's more.

Now it's more.

Whoa.

So I went over there and I was amazed.

Amazed.

Like in Hanoi alone, there's 2,000 pool rooms in Hanoi, just one city.

2,000?

Yeah.

That's crazy.

What is this?

The most luxurious pool hall in Vietnam.

That's in Da Nang.

I've actually been to this pool room before.

Damn.

But yeah, they have pool rooms with like hundreds of tables.

This is Chinese 8 Bowl, by the way.

Yeah, that's a weird game, right?

It's become really, really popular.

Hugely popular, right?

Really popular.

It's

very lucrative, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, those guys are making big money now.

They're called Hayball now.

It's called Hayball, right?

It used to be called Chinese 8 ball.

Chinese 8 ball.

So

what made that game explode in China?

They were just throwing big, big money in the game, and it really exploded everywhere.

Because now all the English and snooker players, English 8-ball players, and snucker players are traveling and playing all those tournaments there.

And maybe top 30 guys now on their tour are making good money.

And they are, I think they are trying to get the pool players to join them as well.

A lot of guys will probably do it just for the cheese.

Yeah, well, that's the problem.

What does a big tournament in Hayball pay?

The biggest one pays $750,000 for first.

But they have almost big tournaments every month.

They pay $200,000, $300,000 for first.

Wow.

And small tournaments, you know, they pay 50.

But they're

happening every two weeks.

But you were saying when you went over there,

like regular dudes that you were playing were like Robin, yeah.

Yeah, the competition is really high.

The game is a little bit different.

So they use pool balls, snooker type of rail.

So

the pocket is round.

And they use like a snooker cloth.

So it's really thick

and like hairy.

So it's

got a lot of nap to the claw, so the ball moves slower.

Right.

They hit balls really hard.

Is that because of the rounded edges?

Like you've got to fire them through there.

For example, if the ball is close to the rail, that's probably the best way to make the ball because you can push through the rubber.

Kind of like a Russian pyramid type of thing.

Well, there's that one shot where in the side pockets where you can push through the nipple of the side pocket.

Yeah.

So it's like kind of the same thing.

Kind of.

Because I watch a lot of those guys online and they fire balls in.

I'm like, this is crazy.

Yeah, the competition is really, really high there because there's so many players and so many pool rooms in China that just have table tables.

And it's becoming popular everywhere.

And when did that start in China?

I would say it started like 10 years ago, maybe even before that.

That's crazy.

So think about that.

That emerges 10 years ago.

So this is only, we're talking about 2015.

It's not that long ago.

So that emerges 10 years ago.

And then Vietnam emerges three years ago.

Vietnam, Vietnam is booming.

But maybe I just found it out three years ago.

Maybe it started three years ago.

So let's imagine that's 10 years as well.

That's still nothing.

That's not that long ago.

Yeah.

So it gives me hope that something similar can happen in America.

I don't know.

Do you think so?

I think the audience is different.

How so?

Because

something has to happen in order to draw the younger audience here.

I don't know if the social media is the answer, but in Vietnam, it's just they don't have any bars in pool rooms.

They don't drink in pool rooms.

They just play the game.

Everybody's following professional pool.

Everybody knows who Shane Van Boeing is.

That's going to be tough to get people with no bars.

Exactly.

People who hear a bunch of drunks.

Well, APA has 270,000 members, 270,000 in the U.S.

alone.

And those are mostly bar players.

Those are mostly bar players that play on Fridays, and they probably don't know who Shane Van Bowding is.

What?

That's not possible.

It is possible.

Come on, really?

Yeah.

Really?

I'm telling you.

They play pool in a league and they don't know who Shane Van Bowen is.

I'm telling you.

That seems insane.

He plays in those bar table tournaments sometimes.

I watched a lot more of them, yeah.

I watched some recent one from Boston.

They had some big

pool.

They started.

That's a company from the U.K.

Oh, is it?

They're starting to break through in the U.S.

as well.

Kind of crazy, because it's a really quick shot clock, big-ass pockets, little ass table.

And if you miss, you're fucked.

Right.

Because these guys are all running out.

Justin Bergman is a wizard at that, too.

Yeah.

Bar Table Eight Ball is a different game.

It is.

It looks easy.

You look at it, you're like, oh, small table, big pockets.

This is easy.

But no,

if you miss, like, if you get out of line and you miss, the game's over.

Yeah.

You guys are going to run out.

And that's additional pressure.

There's more strategy in eight ball.

All the clusters and everything's all cluttered up together.

Right, right, right, right.

And you can't shoot your opponent's ball, so you've got to figure out a way to bump them and move them and get a shot on the eight.

Do you think the eight ball is still the most played game because of leagues?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, most people don't.

Like, I had a friend here, and he was like, I play really good pool.

I go, what do you play?

You play nine-ball?

I was like, no, I play regular pool.

I'm like,

what is regular pool?

Like, you don't play

conversation.

I was like, okay, okay, okay.

Let me explain nine ball to you.

Like, you play eight ball.

It's not regular pool.

But it may change with Metron being involved.

It may change because they push nine ball only.

Yeah.

Well, the thing about nine ball that's very exciting is the luck factor.

Right.

Luck factor is huge.

You know, when you watch a guy shoot a ball into the corner and he hits the rail and it bounces three rails and goes into the side,

it's fucked.

If you're sitting there, if you're in the chair and you were hoping, oh, he missed, it's my chance.

No.

He got lucky.

And that's luck is part of it.

And sometimes people shit in the nine ball, and that's the whole,

they win.

And people are like, how could that be a win?

It was an accident.

Like, that's part of the game.

It's It's part of the fun of the game.

And then also, you could win off the break.

That's also part of the game.

And that drives people crazy.

No, spot that.

Like, no.

I think it's great.

I mean, luck is part of any sport, I think.

I also like when someone misses an easy shot and then the opponent runs out and it makes a nine on the break.

So it's like, fuck you.

Exactly.

You fucked up.

And the pool gods do that to you all the time.

They do.

If you miss a ball, it's kind of weird how oftentimes you have have to sit in the chair for a few racks because the guy just gets a bunch of really awesome lucky breaks.

You're like, this is terrible.

For sure.

And you know what I also found when I'm winning more, I'm also getting more lucky.

Yeah.

I just get the love.

I miss the ball and then the guy is absolutely hooked.

I wonder what that is.

Why is that so reliable?

Because it's really reliable.

I wish I knew the answer.

I'd be doing something for sure.

If some like super egghead who studies pool, like Dr.

Dave, like if that guy could explain this, I would like to know.

Because

I think there's a kind of science to it, and I think it has to do,

I don't know what it is, but I think there's a positive

when you're in gear, when you can't miss, and you're in stroke, and you're firing balls, and you're playing really well,

you get these lucky breaks.

It's weird.

It's like you're putting out positive energy.

But when you're down and you feel like shit and you're like, God damn it, I can't catch a break.

And then the guy misses and you're stuck behind two balls and you're like, God damn it.

This always happens.

I wonder.

I often wonder, did you make that?

Did you manifest this?

Are you manifesting good luck with positive energy?

That's what I do, yeah.

I wonder.

That's what I do.

I mean, I'm always trying to be positive because I think there is a benefit to it.

I think there's a real benefit, like a real world, unmeasurable benefit that would probably show up in statistics.

But not even in pool.

I think in real life it's the same.

Yes, I think so too.

Yeah, that's why I think pool mirrors life in a lot of ways.

I think that's the case.

I also think like being really generous in real life is like really good for you.

It's really good for everybody.

It's not good for just for the people that you're being generous to, but it's good for you too.

It's good for everybody.

More good things happen for you when you do that.

It's the same sort of principle.

Karma is real.

It is real.

It just doesn't seem like it should be.

It seems like you should be able to figure out life on a yellow legal pad with a pen and some really good calculus.

But

there's some things going on that nobody has figured out how to put a measuring tape to.

No one's figured out how to put it on a scale.

There's some things going on.

Yeah, that's a difficult one.

Yeah.

And there's things going on with your mind that no one is ever going to be able to figure out.

Like, no one's ever going to be able to figure out why some people get lucky all the time.

But

I think there's probably something to it.

Like Ephraim, for example.

That guy used to always say, I got lucky.

He was always saying, I got lucky.

Meanwhile, who's more positive than that guy?

When he would miss, he would laugh.

He would laugh and scratch his head.

Oh, yeah.

Never look like he was mad.

I would want her to break my fucking stick, but he was just like, oh, no, I missed.

He'd scratch his head and go oh no and sit down and be all super positive right

and but he got lucky a lot I agree maybe that's that's the case

yeah

well that's why I wonder that's why I wanted to ask you about your pre-shot routine like what is the what are the things you're saying to yourself in your mind

or is it just a lot of experience and a lot of I'm gonna make that shot

well it's uh basically shutting down the negative thoughts you know, being positive is really difficult at times, especially when things are not going your way, when opponent is, I don't know, missing and shit saves on you or fluking a few balls or just doesn't miss any balls.

It's really difficult to stay positive in your chair.

Yeah.

So

you just got to focus on what you can control and

hope for the best.

That's all I do.

Have you ever thought about doing what Nick Vanderberg does when he sits on a couch?

Just like visualizing running out while you're watching your opponent play?

I think I have that going through my brain when I'm like listening to like a hype-up music.

For example, when I'm walking to the mansion, I'm like all of hyped up.

What is hype-up music for you?

What are you listening to?

Different, different.

Depends on the mood.

Sometimes it's like gangster rap.

Sometimes it's...

Like, what kind of gangster rap?

What do you like?

Russian, Russian stuff.

Russian?

Oh, you got to send me some.

Okay.

Yeah, tell me what's good, Russian gangster rap.

It's good for the gym.

Perfect for the gym.

Yeah?

Yeah, perfect.

Oh, nice.

Funk, funk music.

I like funk.

Like Brazilian funk.

I like music like that that I don't know what they're saying.

Right.

I do understand what they're saying, but sometimes it just doesn't make all that sense.

Russian gangster rap.

Like, can you give me an example, like, that we could play right now?

Like, what is a good Russian gangster rap that Jamie could pull up?

Well, his name is Scriptonit.

Scripton it?

Yeah.

Like Scriptonite?

Like Kryptonite?

Yeah, well, his name is Scriptinit.

He's really popular in Russia.

See if you can find that guy.

What's a good idea?

Usually it's a few remixes.

Well, let me see.

What's like a...

It puts me on the spot.

I didn't even know that they had a lot of Russian gangster rap.

Oh, yeah.

For sure.

I mean, it's not great music, but it hypes me up.

Well, a lot of hype-up music is not necessarily great.

This guy's called Eisgergert.

I don't even know if he's popular or not.

I just like his stuff.

Give me one script tonight, though.

One, one good song that you like.

Let me see.

Like one,

like you and Josh Phill are about to play for half a million.

You're on your way.

So, this song is

not good.

It has cursing all over it.

Oh, perfect.

But just tell me what it is.

We'll have Jamie pull it up.

Moscow loves ecstasy.

Oh.

I bet a lot of people in Moscow do love ecstasy.

Probably a pretty accurate song.

You got it, Jamie?

Yeah, well, I mean, I want

it's not written in English.

Yeah, it's not written in English.

I just want to say it's not.

No, I'm

not sure.

I'm in the song.

I got to get the right version of it because it didn't.

It's called Masqua.

Masqua.

Let me do a copy-paste here.

Hold on.

If you want, I can have them send it to me and I'll send it to you.

No, that's not the issue.

Oh, okay.

Literally, it's written in.

I don't even know how to type that in.

There it is.

I can't type that something.

It wasn't.

Oh, right, right.

It was on a lyric site.

But this also is going to get us in trouble.

This is going to get us in trouble.

We can't play any music anymore.

Oh, yeah.

All right, well, we'll just cut it out.

You've got to go forward a little bit.

I like it.

Yeah, so it's something like that.

It sounds like he's on ecstasy, though.

Maybe.

I bet he is.

Maybe.

I mean, most of the stuff he says, you can't even understand what he's saying because he's so fast and he's actually from Kazakhstan.

Here's a translation.

Oh, here it is.

Wet asphalt, gray face.

You'll find everything you need.

Love or treasure in the depths of the woods.

Only the lipstick was worn off.

Ceiling, starfall, fingers on the temple.

The eyes are this is all nonsense words.

Yeah, the eyes are gathered together.

Tomorrow, again, wet asphalt, gray face, they're only clouds above you.

Okay, that sounds like ChatGPT wrote it.

Like ChatGPT too.

A straight translation from Russian never makes any sense.

No, right?

Is that

what is that like?

Like learning, but first of all, you know how to read it, right?

So you read, what is it?

Cyrillic?

Is that what it's called?

So

you read it and write it.

Like, what is it like when you have to learn English?

Like, how much of a weird

juxtaposition when you see the two languages together?

Well, it's, I don't know.

It was kind of easy.

I think English is the easiest language to learn.

Really?

Because I was studying French in school.

I was in the French school.

And for me, it was a lot tougher to learn French.

I used to speak fluent French before.

Now I just don't remember anything.

Really?

Yeah, I actually started forgetting Russian a little bit because I started thinking in English because I spent so much time here.

Oh.

So I didn't learn English proper enough, but to where I can speak and understand and, you know, at least have a conversation.

And then I don't really speak with anybody in Russian, so I start forgetting it.

Oh, no.

You're a man of no country.

Exactly.

That's terrible.

That would be terrible.

And if you go back to Russia, they get mad at you, they can't talk good?

No, I mean, I still I still talk good.

Uh I actually go to Russia at least once a year.

Just to stay tight?

Stay close to the game.

Stay close to my family.

But I would imagine, like, if you fell out of Russian, like, if it became uncomfortable for you and you went over there, that would be so weird for them.

No.

No, I mean,

they're fine with it.

There's a lot of people.

But I would, listen, if say like if my daughter moved overseas and went to Spain and started speaking Spanish and then came over to America and had a hard time talking to me, I'd be like, what happened?

I'm not going to get ahead of you.

I'm going to completely forget the language.

Right.

But it would be just that I would be using like a lot simpler words.

My vocabulary is going to be tinier.

Right.

But then what if you're away for 10 years?

Yeah, well then you gain an accent and

then people are like, look at you.

You went America on us.

Yeah.

You son of a bitch.

Do you get any heat for coming to America?

At first, of course I did.

I've had all my friends.

My friends actually, they supported me all the time.

So I'm just

glad that I had good friends and have good friends.

But of course, the casual fans and the keyboard warriors.

Yeah.

They're always on me.

I get the heat from that.

Because you left Russia.

Yeah, sell out.

Not born in the USA.

That's the music they always play in Montana Pat.

Not born in the USA.

Is there a song like that?

Well, they play the song.

Not born in the USA.

So no, not yet.

Oh, not.

That song is very depressing anyway.

If you want to get patriotic, that's not like Born in the USA is a terrible song.

It's like so sad.

It's not like aw like life is awesome.

Like that song is like depressing.

It's, you know, it's about living in a terrible part of the USA.

Like you're, it's not like the American dream.

But not really.

I mean, I don't have the heat from the Russians.

Not really.

I don't have that.

That's That's good.

There's a lot of Russian people living in the United States.

So you get more heat from Americans that are upset that you came over from Russia?

I really.

The Europeans, I think.

The Europeans that are the most upset ones, I think.

Probably because you're now playing for the Americans.

They know that you could fuck up their whole Moscone Cup thing.

Maybe, maybe.

I do have a lot of,

I would say, Polish haters just because I'm born.

Polish.

Yeah, Polish.

I have a lot of Polish haters.

Just because I was born in Russia.

Oh.

So they just automatically don't like Russians.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That always happens.

Yeah.

If you don't have haters, you're not doing anything right.

Right.

You know, if you're.

I'm sure you have a lot of them, too.

I'm sure I do.

Yeah.

What was that crazy guy that was

trying to fight you or something?

Oh, the Liver King.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that poor unfortunate guy.

I don't know, man.

He just got it in his head somehow or another that I was responsible for what was wrong with him, that I was a bully to him, which is crazy because all I did was point out what was like super obvious, like you're lying about being on steroids.

Like, hey, don't lie about being on steroids.

Don't be a public person and no one will say that.

It's that simple.

You got to take personal accountability for errors that you made.

I think there were some substances involved, if I had to guess, that led down him down a bad road, unfortunately.

But it's also fame, man.

It's not,

you know, I'm sure you experienced it because you experienced a lot of haters in the pool world but fame is not what people think it's going to be you know you think i'm going to be famous and life will be easier because people know who i am no life is going to be way harder because now you're under the microscope

24 hours a day and this is a guy in the

Brian, who calls himself the liver king, who was not famous most of his life and then decided I want to be famous and I have this great body.

So what I'm going to do is just like tell everybody they have to eat liver and sell a bunch of supplements.

And he made a lot of money selling a bunch of supplements.

And then it's, can I tell the truth around

steroids?

The problem with that is that physique is not achievable in your 40s without some help.

It's just not.

It's just not.

It's just not.

Like you could be a freak athlete and have that physique at 23.

It's possible.

There's a few guys that can, but you have to have superior genetics and an insane work ethic.

And you have to be like really intelligent about how you approach your training.

But once you get into your 40s, and if you didn't look like that when you were younger, oh, yeah, you're on something.

Everybody knows it.

There's nothing wrong with being on something.

Like, there's, here's the thing, is like, if you want to be an influencer online,

it's it doesn't exclude you from taking, if you're a person who takes testosterone or any, even there's guys who have huge followings who are clearly on anabolic steroids.

They just don't lie about it.

That's all it is.

Like, it doesn't make you less famous or make

your physique less valid.

No one really,

I mean, there's going to be a few people.

Oh, he's a juice head.

But the reality is most people are just like, wow, that's really impressive.

But what people hate is when you

mislead them, when you pretend you're doing something that you're not, especially if

you're also selling supplements or selling a lifestyle and telling them about your ancestral tenants.

It's just

got to take accountability.

You made mistakes.

If you did make mistakes, I'd be celebrating you.

If you were like this guy who's like, there's a bunch of people that we talk about on the podcast all the time that I know are on juice.

But they don't lie about it.

And no one gets upset at them.

It's real simple.

Right.

It's just, it is what it is.

But that, you know, it's a guy, it just take a lot of heat.

And they just, he also funded, I think he at least had a part in funding this Netflix documentary about him, which I didn't watch it, but I heard it was not flattering at all.

And it made him seem kind of insane.

And that probably sucked.

And then after that, he

was mad at me.

But

again, fame is not a normal thing.

It's not normal.

And if you don't have personal sovereignty, if you don't understand yourself, truly understand yourself, not just trying to project an image of what you like people to think of you, but who you actually are.

That's where you get in trouble with fame.

And then also reading haters and reading the comments and

wanting people to love you, which is probably why a lot of people get famous in the first place.

It's also like

the thing of getting famous as a goal versus becoming famous because of a thing you do.

You know what I mean?

Like becoming famous because people

like your comedy or your podcast or they like the way you play pool or the way you play basketball.

That's a different thing

when you specifically go out of your way because you want to become famous.

And that's a lot of people.

It's really weird that it's a lot of very wealthy people.

I know some people that are really wealthy and the thing that they really want is to be famous.

It's weird.

Just an ego, egomaniac.

Well, it's a thing they can't buy.

It's like they have private jets.

They got a house here and a house there and they got a company here and a company there, but they really want to be famous.

You know, so they will, they will, that's a lot of those guys want to go on podcasts and they want to like sort of like let the world know how cool they are.

It's weird.

It is.

You know, it's like, and then a lot of those guys, they take the heat off the comments and the haters and they don't like it.

And they're like, Jesus Christ, I didn't know it was going to be this.

Like, yeah,

that's what you signed up for.

you signed up

yeah you're on the the world theater

and that's uh that's a lot of eyeballs it's a lot of a lot of a lot of fucking venom tongued people out there just wanting to say terrible things about you yeah can't wait till something to happen and you have you have to have the same way you have that discipline to not allow those negative thoughts in your head before you make a shot you also have to not allow other people's negative thoughts in your head either right because they're as valid if not more valid than your own negative thoughts.

Wow, there's so many different opinions.

This is, for example, every time I make a, I don't know, bad decision to their opinion, you know, they will always voice it to me and say, well,

and you just gotta deal with it.

Yeah, or not pay attention to them, which is, I think, the best way to do it.

You must be aware.

Everyone's aware if they fuck up, and you're always aware if people are upset at you about things, but don't fucking focus on it.

Don't pay attention.

And that's where comedians make a giant mistake.

Podcasters make a giant mistake.

I'm sure pool players do it.

Fighters do it in a big way.

Like a lot of fighters get real mad when they read comments.

Yeah.

You know, and they invite trolls to come to their gym and some of them even beat the trolls up, which is kind of crazy.

You know, some guys will talk shit and they'll be so dumb that they'll actually think that they can go to the gym and spar with Sean Strickland or something.

That's the worst thing you can do because that's what troll is wanting.

That's what his goal is.

He's trying to get to your head.

Yeah, but if you can get him in the gym, it's worth it.

Yeah.

Like Sean Strickland has a bunch of videos of guys who talk shit online.

He just beats the fucking piss out of them.

Which is like, then he wins.

You know, then it comes all full circle.

Like, paying attention to the haters actually paid off because for him, it's easy work.

He's just, he just tunes these guys up like it's nothing and talks shit to them while he's kicking the fuck out of them.

Yeah, well, I guess in that case, it'd be fun.

Yeah, but with Poole, it's like, you don't want to have to play some idiot who says you suck.

Like, okay, put up money.

Let's play.

Like, they probably won't.

They won't.

And then you'll be talking with them back and forth.

What is the most amount of money that you've ever gambled for?

Against Shane?

That was it?

Yeah.

So you don't want to say the full amount, but that was the most amount.

But this Joshua Filler thing, if what they offered, if that ever happened, that would be the biggest one.

It could be the biggest one.

It could be the biggest one.

But also, on my end, I just don't want it to be a one-match and done.

Right.

I want to play, you know, if I lose, I want to play again.

If I win, I want to play again.

What was he proposing in terms of a race?

He wanted to do the same.

120-10 ball over three days.

Just the same thing.

And what would you think about that?

I think, yeah,

we can do that, for sure.

But

my take on this was I wanted to play in Rail Yard, in Louisville, where we play all of our.

Your spot, yeah.

Well, it's not really my spot.

It's considered.

It's a spot you go to a lot, right?

Not really.

I go there, you know,

a couple times a year.

I'll live 30 minutes from there.

Oh, see, that's your spot.

But

I don't go there.

Son, shut up.

That's your home room.

It's not my home room.

I have a table at home.

I practice at home.

Right.

But your homeroom where you go to is like the place where you go that's near your house.

That's an actual establishment, not your home table.

I mean, you can...

You can...

Yes, I mean, you can say it like this, but I don't go there.

I don't practice there.

I'm never there.

Right.

I bet everybody knows your name.

Oh, yeah.

Walk in the door.

Well, everybody knows your name everywhere.

It doesn't count.

But yeah, I think you can play.

I can see why you wouldn't want to play there.

Yeah, of course.

We can find a neutral spot.

We can find a neutral spot.

Maybe we're setting it up right here on this podcast.

What's the most amount you think you you could get staked for?

I will have to

consult.

Yeah, I'll have to consult.

Yeah, consult with those gentlemen.

$300,000, maybe?

Could be four.

Wow.

That's a lot of money.

It's a lot of money.

Let's do it right here.

I'd be in.

I'd be into doing that.

I would have to tighten that table up, right?

Yeah, I will.

Would you want four and a quarter?

Or would you want four and a half quarter?

Oh, that's another thing he wanted to do.

He wanted to only play in a four-inch table.

So he wants to make it tighter

because me and Shane we play in four and a quarter.

Oh, I see.

And he thinks if he makes it tighter, I'm not going to be making as much balls on the break, and I can't control the break.

You know, it's always when you negotiate a match like this, you always want to have an edge.

Right.

And a little change here and there may make the outcome different.

But

I mean, I see, I feel like you should do it in a place where you can get an audience, though.

We can.

Yeah, but it's going to be the biggest, the biggest draw of the audience we can possibly have online for sure it's going to be the what what i mean is in person as well like a place where there's a lot of people that can watch in person i think me and shane would draw a bigger crowd but maybe really yeah yeah probably shane is a huge american hero when it comes to pool right

but it just seems like he doesn't like it anymore with filler it's different you know he's like jake paul a lot of people watch him but they watch him because they want him to lose really Really?

Well, I just found it like this.

I didn't know that.

I'm just hearing that for the first time now.

I thought he was beloved.

Well, it's kind of changing, I think, lately.

Why?

Just the way he responded to a few different things, and social media makes it worse.

Oh, no.

Social media stuff?

Yeah.

There was a few, few.

I don't know if you're involved with like WPA and Metro and conflicts and stuff like this.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

So there was a lot of weirdness where he was playing for, like, was it WPA said you couldn't play in a matchroom event?

Or

is that what it was?

What happened?

What happened was.

So we should explain to people that don't know, there's two different competing sort of organizations.

And at one point in time, if you played for one, they were telling you you can't play for the other.

And everybody's like, that's kind of crazy, guys.

Like, pool is just starting to take off.

And don't schedule shit at the same time as this other one that you know is going to be there.

Work together.

So what happened was

WPA is implementing all those bans and they say if you play in

Hanoi Open you will be banned for a certain period of time from WPA tournaments.

And all the top players at the time, we wanted to change that by just stopping playing in WPA tournaments.

So we just all of us top 16 players or top 10 players, we just don't go to WPA tournaments.

And by that move, we wanted them to change that rule.

We wanted them to lift the band.

Right.

So the very next event

after we spoke with all the players we were in the meeting room we fly to New Zealand and I was flying with Christina with my girlfriend at the time.

She was playing the World Championships and there was a World Championships for men's which was a WPA tournament and we all agreed that we're not playing there

but Josh was there and he was playing.

So he basically decided and went against what he was saying in that room.

He turned up and signed up to play.

It wasn't just him.

It wasn't other players.

But then it just led to more, like, he went on social media and tried to say, you know,

he was trying to defend himself and say, you know,

it wasn't, it was my dream to win that championships.

It was my...

What better way to tell those other 10 guys that are the best in the world that you're not going?

All right, we're all not going.

And then you sign up.

That means you just killed off nine or ten of the best players in the world, and you have a much better chance of winning.

He did get a lot of backlash from that.

And I think to this day, that kind of stuck with him.

I see.

That makes sense.

That makes sense.

He's a hell of a player, though.

Oh, he's an unbelievable player.

Yeah.

And he's really young, too, right?

How old is he?

He's a little bit older than me, maybe 26, 27, but he's the most fearless, the most talented player.

He's kind of like Ronio Salwin of Paul.

Yeah, he's

sometimes when he gets hot, it's crazy to watch where he's spiking balls in.

Oh, the high gear is unbelievable.

Yeah.

Unbelievable.

He would go for a long period of time without me missing any balls.

And the other thing about him is he never looks like he's freaking out.

Like, it never seems to be affecting him.

Like, he's never taking additional time in between shots.

No, he's a very fast.

fast player.

Even under extreme pressure.

Yeah.

He doesn't really fall under pressure, and uh, it just seems like he doesn't feel it sometimes.

Sometimes it does feel like this, and he was feeding off the actual like hate of the crowd in Moscone, like Moscone Cup.

If you watch Las Vegas, I wasn't playing on those years, but everybody is kind of rooting against him, and he's just feeding off the crowd, kind of like Jason showed us.

Wow,

yeah, if you can turn that into

a fuel and just run wrecks.

That's amazing, in my opinion.

Yeah, if you can do that, if you have that kind of temperament.

But it's always interesting to me when a guy like that just seems to be so calm under pressure and just fires balls in.

It's almost like it's like shocking.

He's got an intimidating game.

Right.

Not that I don't think you could beat him.

It's a really good game, though.

It is.

It is a really good game.

It's top one and two in the world.

You know, I think at the very top, as you see with

Alocius Yap, he won three tournaments in a row, which is crazy.

It's crazy to win like three majors in a row.

But like, you know, Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz went on a tear where he was doing that for a while.

If you look back at like the years,

even like 10 years from where we're at right now, it is always one player winning tournaments for like a year or two and then switches to another player.

Like Shane won back-to-back U.S.

Opens.

Or Mika.

Mika won back-to-back.

Darren won.

Darren Appleton won back-to-back.

Yeah.

It's always.

They get hot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it's just maintaining that.

It's just so weird.

Like we were talking about Ko Ping Chung, who had that insane match in 2023, but this year didn't play nearly as well.

It's really tough.

I mean, life gets in the way.

Something, I don't know, family, business.

Or you might have a neck injury like you had.

Right.

Your back might start bothering you.

You get sciatica.

There's a lot of stuff that can happen.

Yeah.

But it's just, that's why a high-level high-level pool, when you watch it on a world stage like that, when it's executed so perfectly, is so fun to watch.

Because you know how hard it is to get there.

Yeah, it's harder to even stay there.

So

what do you do differently now that you're world number one?

Do you do anything differently to try to maintain your position?

Or is it just keep going?

No, just keep going.

I know what I did to get me where I'm at right now.

Why would I change it?

Yeah.

I mean, I guess unless...

Because a lot of people, they stop.

Because, for example, they had a goal.

Their motivation is gone.

Right.

You know, my motivation

has always been money, really.

Most of the time it was just the money.

I wanted to win as much as I can.

I was kind of

from the poor-ish family growing up.

And I always, my biggest motivation was financial.

But obviously I wanted to be a world champion, and I had the dream to be a world champion.

When I won the first world championships, you know that that dream was kind of gone.

Now it's just another major, major, major.

So they always ask me those questions where what would it feel to you if you win another U.S.

Open, World Pool Masters?

Like it would be great.

But I think it would mean a lot more when I stopped playing.

Like when I'd be sitting with my grandkids and like, oh, well, your grandpa was a two-time World 9-ball champion back in the day.

He was four-railing that nine-ball right there.

Why do you say it with a southern accent?

Well, because I live in Indiana here, I live in southern Indiana.

Is that they have a southern accent in Indiana?

Yeah.

Oh, that's interesting.

I didn't even thought of that.

Huh?

Yeah.

What would you assume their accent in Indiana would be?

Depends where you are.

Well, you're an Ohio boy, so you're close to Kentucky.

Depends where you are there.

Right.

Cleveland's got an accent.

That's true.

That's true.

Several people have accents.

That's true.

But it's just

when

when you think about

just i in general, like Pool's growth, I think you're in a perfect position right now in life.

It's like if you had been this good twenty years ago, you would be in the same sort of trap that a lot of those uh the older players were, where there's no real incentive to be playing professionally.

The only money that anybody was making in Pool twenty, thirty years ago, real money, was in gambling.

And there was a lot of guys that that were making money gambling that weren't placing well in tournaments.

They just, and they didn't want to.

They didn't want to play in tournaments.

They didn't want to knock their action.

But I think you're in really the perfect timeline.

Whereas as you're getting better and as pool's getting more and more popular, the money's getting bigger and bigger.

And

I think it's a really awesome time for the game.

I agree.

Definitely.

I definitely feel fortunate to be in the right time, in the right era with the way my career was going to.

Because like you said, 20 years ago, I would have been nowhere.

And it's also the guys, the players of today, it seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but they're much more systematic with their training than they ever were before.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

100%.

Everybody's more disciplined.

Everybody is treating it as a sport, like I said.

They're not treating it as a game.

They're treating it like a sport, but they're also examining all the aspects of the game and constantly honing them.

It's different.

Like when I watch guys practice online, like you have a channel where you put a lot of your practice sessions online, and you know, you get to see, like, there's no

messing about.

It's like there's some serious training involved, like serious position play, serious, like getting that muscle memory over and over again and different ways to stroke a shot.

For example, my idol growing up was always Niels Fein, and he has his own channel on YouTube.

Yeah, he's great.

The Terminator.

He is the best to follow.

The best.

The guy is doing

visualization every day.

He's practicing every single day, I think.

You know, he's doing his 90 minutes of hardcore practice on the pool table.

He's live streaming it.

He's explaining why, why would you have to practice?

And if you follow just everything he does, you will get to a different level.

100%.

Yeah.

100%.

World-class player, too.

He's fun to watch.

Yeah, super disciplined, super, like Rafa.

Rafa Nadal, he's Rafa Nadal in pool.

Whew.

It's a fun time.

Fun time to be a pool player.

And

like I said, I think the sky's the limit.

I think the game is going to explode over the next few years because we've watched it get a lot bigger over the last four or five.

Yeah, for sure.

Let's set up the filler match.

Yeah, man.

I'll do commentary.

How about that?

Get matchup involved.

Just set it up somewhere in Austin.

I'll do it.

Let's do it.

Do it somewhere we can have a crowd in person, though.

That's what I was getting at.

Like, you're going to have have a crowd online, but it'd be cool if you had a lot of people there in person.

All right.

You got it.

We'll set it up.

Okay.

Well, I want to see it.

So, listen, congratulations on everything.

It's been cool following you and seeing what happened over the last time you were here and watching you just get better and better.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for having me, Joe.

My pleasure, my brother.

Tell everybody if they want to follow you.

What's your Instagram?

My Instagram has a weird name, Chris Janich.

But I have Facebook mostly.

I spend a lot of my time on Facebook, TikTok.

Oh, this is a question I wanted to ask you.

Your name,

some people say Fedor, some people say Fedor, but in Russian, is it Fyodor?

Fyodor.

Okay.

That's Russia.

Because people were correcting me.

I'm like, I think you're both wrong.

I think you've got to write.

A lot of people say Fedor.

Yeah.

A lot of them.

I've heard Fedor.

When I was calling you Fedor, people are going, oh, he's saying that because Fedor Malionenko.

I'm like, yeah, well, that's kind of the accepted American pronunciation of Fyodor, though.

So I wanted to ask you if it was Fyodor.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is.

I knew I was right.

Right.

But nobody called me like that.

Okay, Fyodor.

Let's see you are from now on, bro.

Let's play some pool and then we'll get something to eat.

All right.

Bye, everybody.

Bye-bye.