#2244 - Ryan Graves

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day! Hello.
Good to see you again. Nice to see you.
What is the latest in the world of Ryan? Other than the fact that you're about to have a child. Congratulations on that.
Thank you. You wanted to talk to me about this drone situation, and I've become very concerned.
I don't understand what's going on. I think there's a bunch of different narratives.
Some of them are very scary. The scariest one that I've heard is that the drones are looking for gamma radiation because there's a missing nuke.
Yeah, let's address that first. So there has been a lot going on.
I made a next post about this yesterday to try to assuage some fears. I saw it, but I purposely didn't read it because I wanted to get it from you.
Yeah. So, you know, I've had the privilege of interacting with a lot of government organizations over the past few years as I've been digging down this rabbit hole.
Law enforcement at a federal level, DOD, executive branch, legislative branch, and some of the folks that I've come in contact with, they specifically work on weapons of mass destruction. So that's their job.
So if there's a loose nuke in the United States, among other agencies,

they would be some of the people that would be sitting in a skiff for 24 hours a day trying to figure out where it is and to go get it, right? So you can imagine that would be their number one priority, right? So I engage with these folks. I ask them, you know, what's the sense here? You know, people are kind of starting to panic a little bit, and this message is getting out there more and more broadly.
And they assured me that's not the case, that there is not a loose nuke or other type of weapon of mass destruction that these objects, whatever they are, are pursuing right now. Otherwise, they would be working in a skiff nonstop to make that go away, that problem go away.
So, you know, that's part of why I have a high confidence level that this is not a response to a massive imminent, you know, weapons of mass destruction threat on the eastern seaboard. So I just want to try to dispel that rumor right now.
I've seen a lot of talk of that online. And I don't, you know, although this is a, you know, I think a dangerous and scary situation that's going on right now, at least from that particular angle, that's not the indications I'm receiving.
So how would they persuade you just by saying that's not the case? Or have they given you any information that leads to this conclusion? Like, they would be the people actively working it, essentially, right? So and they're're not they're not working it right so the government is holding back that secret from the direct resources within the government that are responsible for finding these systems or they're not working the issue because there's an issue there to work so the thing that I had heard was that it was a missing nuke from Ukraine.

And if that was the case,

so what could they do?

Is there any truth to this idea that we have the type of drone capability

that we could send these things out

and they would search for gamma radiation

and they'd be able to find a nuke?

Is that...

So there are teams that respond to those types of potential emergencies, typically within the Department of Energy. Having, you know, potentially hundreds of drones flying around trying to identify these isn't necessarily the best way.
Gamma radiation is typically well shielded in weapons. And at very high altitudes or even moderate altitudes, like we're seeing these objects, it would be pretty difficult to detect them.
And the way that NIST, the DOE, typically operates in this environment is ground-based teams searching for radiation itself. So it's not necessarily consistent with how they would do it to begin with.
And then based off of that other information, that's what leads me to believe that's not the case. Well, that makes me feel better because I was freaking out this weekend.
I think a lot of people were. Yeah, I got a couple.
It's one of those things, especially in this day and age with social media. There's so many narratives that get spread and retweeted.
And, you know, I know a guy who's an insider and he says to get out of the east coast and you know head for nevada or

you know there's a lot of that shit going on um there's a lot of different versions of these drones and this is what's weird if if they weren't ours if they're not ours you would think that they could just track them and find out well where are they landing who's got them uh how are they being used? Is it RFI, like radio frequency? Is it some sort of a different technology that's allowing them to pilot these things? Like, what is it? They'd be able to tune into that and figure it out, right? So how come no one's been arrested? How come no one's been caught? How come they haven't, you know, tracked these things down to the source? Yeah, So there's a lot of good questions there. Let me back up by starting with the fact that this started about two years ago, at least.
So- But not like this. A little bit like this.
Really? In this volume? Not in this volume. That's the differentiator right there.
But so Langley Air Force Base, you might be familiar with the fact that they had drone incursions of an unknown type, unknown origin last year. That happened during about a two and a half, three week period right before Christmas.
Right where we are now. That also happened the year before over Langley.
Unknown objects operating over the base. They couldn't tell where they were going.
They were unprepared for them. Same period of time, two, three weeks before Christmas.
This is year three, right? And they were expecting them to come again for the third year in a row over Langley. And there was, you know, some effort put forward to be able to better understand these when they came back.
And they did come back, but they came back in a much

wider swath, right? Now we have them all over New Jersey, all the way up to Massachusetts. And it's hard to tell exactly what the quality of the reporting right now, because it seems to be, you know, the bigger this story gets, the more people are just looking up and seeing anything and pointing it out.
But, you know, there are reports from Texas to Florida to California, Ohio, Minnesota, Pennsylvania. I mean, it's not just New Jersey itself, it seems.
And even the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base was shut down for a drone incursion just this last Friday, a couple days ago. So this isn't just a one-off event.
It is in the sense that it's so large and so many people are paying attention to it. But this has been occurring for at least three years around military bases.
And that's nothing to say with the incidents that we were seeing over the eastern seaboard and other training ranges that fighter pilots were seeing as they were doing their operations. So I'm a little hesitant to link it to that, the full story that we've been having here, this full conversation.
But at least for three years, this has been occurring. So, you know, kind of getting back to your question, you know, why can't we do more about it? It's a hard problem, I think, for a number of reasons.
It's hard, but it's very solvable, right? I think this can be solved. We can solve it.
But right now, kind of the word on the street is that these objects appear to be coming from over the ocean. There's senior congressmen, there's Coast Guard personnel, there's law enforcement, they're seeing a large number of these come from somewhere over the ocean.
I don't know if that means necessarily they're popping out of the water physically, or if they're coming from some unknown location in the water,

and then proceeding over the coast. I don't know how that relates to Ohio.
That's a pretty long trip, if they are coming over the ocean. And from the videos I've seen and the conversation I've had, they are detecting these objects through kind of normal mechanisms like radar systems, optical camera systems.
They are flying very low. In some cases, they seem to be operating as a group in the vicinity of each other, flying past each other, flying very up close to each other, and then proceeding to do whatever they are that they're doing.
It's an unknown right now if they are emitting energy or not. So, you know, like radio communications or their own maybe active sensor systems, it's unknown.
I've poked on that front and the best I can tell, the government doesn't know either. That seems so weird that they don't know that.
Like, it's just very disturbing that someone could operate these things and have, I mean, what is the the estimated number of them that's a great question I mean at this point I'm comfortable making a guess of probably over 800 or a thousand and how many of those are sightings of the same object how many of those are individual objects how many of those are unique objects that right so it's it's tough to say but this isn just a few objects that people are seeing. And so I can imagine some technologies that will allow traditional UAVs or drones to operate without emitting, right? So they could be, they could have a self-contained navigational system, right? Maybe they have their own onboard maps and they're using cameras to map where they are.
So then they would be completely autonomous. You just send them out there and they would have a task and they would go through whatever their task is and navigate via their GPS or whatever track.
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... tracking system they're using.

Exactly.

And then, you know, what is their task, right?

Is it just to instill panic and fear? Is it because they're sensing something? And if they are sensing something, they would have to be using what's called passive sensors, right? So like a camera system is passive, but if you're shooting a radar out and having it bounce off of something, that's active, right? And that's easier to detect than a passive system. So I could imagine a fully self-contained autonomous drone system that is doing something potentially with passive sensors that allows it to operate without emissions, which is going to make it harder to track.
If they're doing it at night, if they do have passive systems like some sort of an optical system, wouldn't that be hindered by the low light conditions? Or do we have stuff that is able to detect whatever they're looking for at night? Yeah, depends what they're looking for. But ultimately, there is tech, there's electro optical systems, there's infrared camera systems, not unlike the jets that are the systems that we had on my jet.
But we were able to detect these objects with infrared when we were flying off the eastern seaboard. There are a number of reports from law enforcement that their infrared systems are not able to pick these objects up.
And not just this year, but also the incidents over Langley last year, the pilots that responded to that incident, I've spoken to them, they weren't able to lock these up with their infrared systems either. So they do seem to be exhibiting some type of signature management.
That's interesting. So is the signature management, so is it a heat signature that they're giving off? So maybe there's some sort of a cooling mechanism inside of these things? Like how, if they have a propulsion system, so you would imagine it's some sort of an electric engine, right? Because a lot of them are very quiet.
That's got to be giving off some kind of heat, right? Yeah, and that goes to some very base physics, right? Yeah.

We create heat whenever we have stored energy and we utilize it. So to be able to mitigate that to such a degree that you can't even detect them at all, it's pretty tough.
I mean, I can imagine you can reduce your signature. We do it in fighter jets, right, through kind of just like baffles where we cover the engine essentially to make it harder to see.
But to have zero ability to detect or lock onto these objects is not a technology I'm familiar with. So other than that, are they exhibiting any type of movement that's extraordinary or their ability to turn angles? Is there anything about them that points to this being superior technology? You know, it's tough to say.
Based on what I've seen just in the public from reports and kind of amateur photographers and witnesses, some of them do seem to be making pretty sharp turns. I wouldn't call them like physics-breaking turns, but they don't seem to be operating like a normal aircraft, right? So they're down low, they're making what appear to be pretty high G turns, maybe like three, four or five G turns at relatively low air speeds, which is indicative of them having a pretty significant power supply, right? Anytime you turn like that, you're burning energy, essentially.
So for them to be able to make these high G maneuvers, and then remain in the area for another five or six or seven hours and still have the battery life or whatever is propelling them, to then go over the ocean to a point where they're untrackable, again, I'm not really familiar with that type of capability either. I know they've shot at least one of them down or people have shot.
Have you seen the video? It looks like cops are shooting them down with shotguns in New Jersey.

I did see one video like that.

I wasn't sure how real it was.

I hope it's a cop.

I know because it's like, hey, man, when you shoot up, those bullets land somewhere.

They can land on people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've heard multiple people, representative officials saying like, hey, government needs to step in and start being more clear because people are just going to take matters to their own hands. That's where people get hurt.
Well, there's also been downed ones, right? I've heard rumors of downed ones, but I haven't. There's video footage and there's people driving in their car and cop cars are surrounding this thing.
That was a plane. It was a plane? I think that was a plane crash.
Oh. Yeah.
I think if that's the one you're referring to, there happened to be like a small plane crash. Can you find that one, Jamie? Yeah.
Okay. But again, this is the problem with social media, especially with someone like me who was just kind of scrolling for five minutes and go, what the fuck? And then like, you know, my kids asked me something.
I got to get out of the house. All right, let me put my phone down.
You know, so I haven't done any kind of a deep dive, and I did that purposely just to try to pick your brain. Is this one? Yeah.
Oh, yeah, that's definitely a plane. Yeah.
Is that the one? Yeah, when they were driving by, they're like, look, it's a drone shot down. Right, that might be the one that I saw.
I did watch a video. Did you see the video of the plane that crashed in Texas? I don't know.
Pretty crazy. I'll send you that.
It's unrelated. We need to get Elon Musk to have like a special UAP task force within the community no Elon is look he's oddly sly about this stuff he you know outwardly dismisses UFOs you know he said well through, well, if they're there, they're very subtle.
One might expect that, but okay. But I just feel like with his contracts with NASA and being involved in SpaceX, he can't talk crazy.
Yeah. He talks crazy so much about other stuff, but when it's in this, you know, fucking multi-multi-billion dollar company that he runs, I don't think he can fuck around.
I don't think he can. If it was something that he had no interest in at all in terms of financial interest and business interest, I'm sure he would be commenting on it.
But he's not commenting on it at all, which makes me go, hmm, hmm. And I don't think he's going to tell me.
I don't think I'm going to call him up because I've got a big mouth. I think he knows.
I'll be out here talking about it. A guy I know.
Can't tell you. Yeah, it's the thing that disturbs me is not just that this is happening.
There's so many drones and all these people are seeing them. It's happening for so long and nothing has been done.
There's no, you know, they're not scrambling jets to try to meet these things and follow them and track them. They're not shooting them down.
They're not. It's just there's we appear so vulnerable because of this.
Because if these are ours or if these are people just fucking around and it's not a threat. OK, great.
But why is it so prevalent? Why are there so many of them? And why have there been nothing that these people that are trying to investigate this have been able to do that's effective to put a stop to this? So there's some laws in this country that are a little bit antiquated when it comes to dealing with situations like this. So my understanding is right now these things are operating mostly in what's called Class G airspace, which is really low.
It's away from airports. Not all, of course, right? They're over bases.
They're over LaGuardia. Yeah.
Yeah. But here's, I think, where a lot of the trouble is coming in from.
I think the government has to make the presumption at this point, based off the feedback from the DOD and others,

that if this is not a foreign adversary, then we have to make the assumption that it's a U.S. citizen that's operating these.

Because of that, they essentially need a warrant in order to wiretap these.

What?

Yeah.

Even with the Patriot Act?

That's the feedback I'm receiving. That's the legal limitation.
Oh, come on. They don't even need a warrant to get intoap these.
What? Yeah. Even with the Patriot Act? That's the feedback I'm receiving.

That's the legal limitation.

Oh, come on.

They don't even need a warrant to get into my phone.

Fuck out of here.

I don't buy that.

Well, whether it's the reality situation or not, that's how they're proceeding, right?

And so to overcome that, there's like a 120-page report that needs to be filed all the way

up to the Deputy Attorney General of the United States in order to even intercept these signals that they may or may not even be emitting to be able to determine where they're going. And so I think that's one part of what's like slowing down this whole investigation.
On the other hand, for base commanders, they have limited authorities protect their base. But when they do, they need to submit basically a request all the way up to the Secretary of Defense And so now you have this like super politically charged situation with a lot of risk of objects flying over the US If they take action and shoot one of these down even with this the Secretary of Defense's permission You know they're on the hook if that thing takes out a school bus or otherwise damages someone's property kill somebody Yeah, Jamie, can you research? Can you just do a quick search? Have there been drones that have been shot down? I haven't seen anything.
I was a There's a story from what two days ago New Jersey lawmakers were having a press conference asking if the government could shoot one down so they can inspect it It's, like, I'm assuming they haven't shot one down if they're asking to shoot one down that day, you know? I hear something new that I don't know if it's even worth bringing up, but this is a new story going on. They said this might be what some of this has to do with.
I don't even know if this is... Missing radioactive material.
Yeah. Scroll up a little bit higher so I can see who put that up there.
There's a few people that have posted it. Okay.
Yes, I did see that. I did see that.
While looking at Nuclear Regulatory Commission alerts, one confirmed there's radioactive material that has gone missing on December 2, 2024, out of New Jersey. I guess it was being shipped there, and it didn't make a container, arrived damaged and empty.

Well, my understanding is these sightings started around November 18th. Yeah, so I saw the November 20th, too, so I don't know if that makes it related.
So we should explain to people that didn't listen to our first podcast why you're uniquely qualified to talk about this stuff. Please tell people your background so they understand what you used to do and how you got involved in this whole UAP thing in the beginning.
Yeah, absolutely. So formerly trained aerospace engineer in college, joined the Navy immediately after with the hopes to go fly fighter jets for the Navy.
Was successful in doing that, and I flew the F-18 Super Hornet for 11 years and two deployments, primarily operating off of Virginia Beach. And pretty standard career until about 2013 or so when we came back from our deployment, we began to upgrade our radar systems.
When that happened, we put in essentially a much more powerful radar into our jet. It took about eight months.
So you might fly with a newer radar in the morning, maybe an older radar at night. And consistently, when we were flying with these newer radars, we were picking up a bunch of objects that were operating in our working area that we weren't seeing with the older radar.
They were performing in strange ways.

They would be stationary.

They would be around 250 to 350 knots, kind of meandering around the area,

not really working together per se,

but kind of clearly operating in the same vicinity as one another, right?

So we weren't flying in formations necessarily.

And we'd even see these supersonic as well, 1.1, 1.2 Mach, typically heading east. And we'd only see them over the water.
We originally thought they were radar errors, right, some kind of software glitch. But eventually we started to correlate these across other sensors such as our IR FLIR system.
Our missile systems would lock onto these. And we would try to fly up to them to see them physically with our eyeballs.
And when we do that, we wouldn't see anything. We'd come within about 500 feet of these objects.
All our sensors are pumped into our helmet, augmented reality style. And it would tell us exactly where to look.
And boom, we'd come right past this object and there'd be nothing there. We'd circle back around and then pick it back up on our sensors.
It would be slightly displaced, but that was kind of the status quo for a few weeks until we had a near miss with one of these objects right at the entrance to our working areas. The pilot came back, canceled the flight, had a look of shock on his face and described as a dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere.
And once that happened, we kind of had to come together as a squadron with the safety officer in our squadron and say, hey, you know, like, okay, what's going on? This has kind of been rumor and conjecture, but, you know, we almost had a near miss. You almost lost an aircraft.
You know, let's gather as much information as we can. As it turned out, there are four other near misses that had occurred in the past month that pilots were too uncomfortable to even report.
And that really kind of kicked off the seriousness of this issue for us. And we started filing paperwork, safety reports, and hoping and expecting that this would get resolved in some way as, you know, the proper people, whoever that was, got these reports and they could mitigate it in some way.
But that never happened, at least from our perspective. So we essentially treated them as safety issues.
We would avoid them. We wouldn't fly close to them.
And then in 2015, we left to go do what's called a pre-deployment workup cycle aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt. So we train like we play.
You get the whole air wing there, 30 jets, 40 jets, and we're doing these very complex missions. And there were a lot of objects down there as well.
They either followed us down there or they were already there. Was there a lot of visual sightings of these objects, or is it just equipment? A lot of visual sightings.
Was it the same sort of thing, a circle with a square inside of it? Or solid spheres, some elongated spheres, kind of more tic-tac shape, if you will. And during that workup cycle, that's when we recorded what's now known as the Gimbal and GoFast video.
And they almost had to shut that entire exercise down because there were multiple near misses while we were trying to do this. And this is, this is a big deal.
If they cancel that training mission, that means the people that are deployed, since you have to be there longer, they have to wait longer. So there's a lot of downstream effects.
So pretty big deal to even consider canceling a training, um, you know, our training mission like this. So again, we, you know, we filed it up, we didn't know what else to do with it.
And we went back to our training left on deployment. In 2017, a New York Times article came out, I was now an instructor pilot in Mississippi, and for the Navy still.
And on, you know, front page of New York Times article came out. I was now an instructor pilot in Mississippi for the Navy still.
And on the front page of New York Times, lo and behold, there are the video of the gimbal and the go-fast with the pilot's audio on there that we've heard now. And I'm like, holy shit.
This is still going on. Massive deja vu, as you might imagine.
And I saw that as like a cry for help, essentially, that these videos have now been somewhat smuggled out they're on the front page New York Times and do we know how the gimbal or the go fast videos got leaked my understanding is that work was done partially with Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon so there was two videos that were attached, right? So when you record in the jet, it records two screens. It records.
Can we show those, Jamie? Show those videos. So it records these two screens, right? And the bottom screen is like a God's eye view with all your radar data.
And the right one is your FLIR system. And when you watch that in the briefing room after, they're stitched together like side by side.
And that's what I saw, and that's how I built my understanding of this situation. There it is.
So with the crosshairs, is that they're trying to lock in on it? So now they've locked in on it, right? Yeah, they weren't able to gain a lock in their air-to-air mode, so they actually had to degrade down to an air-to-surface mode, kind of a manual locking mode, and that's that box that you see. What is the difference? The air-to-air mode should essentially be looking exactly where the radar is dropping them off, and should automatically lock on it, but in the method that you're seeing here, the pilot's manually slewing the sensor.
This is kind of like a last-ditch effort to get it

and he's like restarting it and that's why the box keeps getting bigger and it's getting smaller it's not capturing it what would be the difficulty like why is it difficult to lock on we don't know

you know one theory is that is because it's relatively close to the ground and there's a lot of background right to confuse the sensor but how far off the ocean is this supposed to be it's somewhere around 10 000 feet or so so it's really not that close um

you background right to confuse the sensor but how far off the ocean is this supposed to be it's somewhere around 10 000 feet or so so it's really not that close um so it's really not a great explanation but yeah you can see him try it there now what do they estimate the size of this thing to be i don't know if anyone has estimated a size to be honest it's hard you know the from the pilot's perspective they're not going to be able to make a real-time assessment of the size. Because how far above this thing are they? Well, they're about five miles away or so.
Five miles. Yeah.
So you see the range 3.4 right there? That range is coming strictly from the AT FLIR sensor itself. It's not a very reliable indicator of the range.
That's what the radar is for.

So although it says about 3.5, the AT FLIR sensor itself, it's not a very reliable indicator of the range.

That's what the radar is for. So although it says about 4.4 and then ticks down, it's probably a little bit further away than that.
What is that, Sanfor RNG? Range. So the speed, is that on there anywhere of how fast this thing is going? So you have 170 V sub C right below the range and that's indicating our relative velocity and that's miles per hour or kilometers I should be not so it's probably like 180 190 miles per hour no heat signature well there is a heat differential anyway so right now we're in we're in white hot so objects that are white are hotter objects in the background I've used infrared sun binoculars before it's pretty cool you can see like raccoons and shit so that's showing us that it's it's cooler than the surrounding environment for whatever reason which is is very bizarre.
Yeah. It's something that's moving 170-whatever miles an hour.
Yeah. And just to be clear, the 170 doesn't represent its raw speed.
This is the gimbal video, which is different. Yep.
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No, I don't think so.

And this is the one that rotates.

Yes.

And when we're looking at this signature,

when we're looking at the dark,

does that represent something that's cooler than the outside area or hotter?

Like, what does that represent?

This one's black hot.

So this is showing us that it's hotter than the surrounding areas right now.

And would this be similar to what you would see if you saw a jet that was flying? No. I mean, we've seen thousands of aircraft like that.
But I mean, in terms of the signature that it gives off with the temperature, or would you be able to see a visible means of propulsion that would be accentuated? Yeah, you would see the exhaust coming out of the back. You'd be able to see the skin of the aircraft itself.
So the sensor is not great, but it's good enough where you can break out some pretty good detail on a jet. I mean, it looks like a jet.
Right. Well, this definitely doesn't look like a jet.
It kind of looks like a flying saucer. And then it turns sideways, which is really weird.
Is there anything on that that shows the speed? On the bottom left, you see 242 knots. That's how fast the aircraft that is recording it is going.
The pilots do talk about how it's going 120 knots against the whim. And in my recollection, it was going at a relatively slow speed for a fighter aircraft, around 100 knots or so at those speeds from looking at the radar data itself.
So as far as you know, we don't have anything that moves like that. No.
And we don't have anything that gives off a signature like that. No.
No.

And were they able to figure out where this is going or keep an eye on it?

Do we have sensors that can detect this for any length of time?

You would assume that the sensors on the ships themselves,

if they were looking there, would be able to detect these objects.

But we're not really linked in to those people that are doing that on the boat. The pilots essentially took this upon themselves to go investigate this, and they reported to Intel when they came back.
And that's where I saw the tapes. Whether they – whether, like, the air traffic management guys on the boat themselves then took it upon themselves to go try to detect these objects.
I don't have that information.

I was never in that information stream.

But presumably they would. Is there a capability where, so if a fighter jet locks in on something like that,

is there an additional source of some sort of satellite that they can team into or tune into

where they can give them the coordinates and say, hey, this is at this exact coordinate. It's moving at this speed.
Can you guys lock into that? No, not within the jet itself. We can share the data amongst jets.
So if you were flying out there and the aircraft that recorded that video was getting that on the radar, that information would be getting sent to other jets in the area. There was a large training mission going on, and I'm not aware of anyone that, you know, was paying attention to those contacts that were, say, 50 miles away from where they were doing this fight.
But it shouldn't have been just self-contained into the aircraft itself. And additionally, that information should have also been received by the ship itself, right? They should have access to that same information that's being shared.
Right. That's what I was getting to.
Like, can the ship itself then lock in the coordinates with the satellite? Or do we have that kind of capability? We don't. As pilots, we don't really get into the satellite game, if you will.
You know, that's kind of like a different level than how we operate. So it's feasible that a ship might call in other national assets to investigate,

but we operate as like a self-contained expeditionary group. So I don't know if

that's part of their protocol. So they wouldn't even refer to you or discuss it with you? Yeah.

Did anybody discuss any of these things with you? Like when you're talking about

the safety hazard, you know, you've got this clear circle with a black square inside of it,

and they're flying in this very unusual way. When you described it to people, what's the feedback? Honestly, most people just kind of looked off in the space.
Really? Yeah, like, huh, that's interesting. That's fucking weird.
Yeah. Did they give you the impression that this is not surprising? Only once.
so when we had the gimbal captured and just real quick you know the gimbal and the go fast happened

within that this is not surprising? Only once. So when we had the gimbal captured, and just real quick, you know, the gimbal and the GoFast happened within minutes of each other.
Oh. The gimbal...
Two different things, but they happened within minutes of each other. Yeah, or the GoFast, there was multiple objects in a line formation called a line of breast.
Right. How many? Flying side by side.
Four. They were about a mile apart flying in formation, doing what they're doing.
The pilots were looking at that, had a hard time locking it, and then they kind of brought their attention up to this other object that's basically co-altitude with them, and that's the gimbal video. And behind the gimbal, there was what they referred to as a fleet of objects, about four to six objects that were flying in a formation, like a tight formation, all within about a mile and a half of each other in a V formation.
So they come, they turn, they get all discombobulated, and then they flow back out into a clean formation, making a 180-degree turn. And then the gimbal object, which we see start to rotate, that's the moment it actually changes direction.
So it's proceeding behind this formation. It turns.
The gimbal does its kind of, you know, its maneuver, and then it starts trailing in the opposite direction. So you've got, you know, maybe 10, 12 objects that are out there operating in this area east of the ship.
We're already 300 miles out there. And so where do they come from? What are they doing? Are they assessing our fight? Are they enemy combatants? For me, this is the conversation that I've been trying to have for almost 10 years now about the seriousness of having these unknown objects in our airspace.
It's a security risk whether they come from little green they come from little green men or whether they come from our adversaries, or if they just remain unknown.

And that's kind of the state we're living in right now with what's happening over New Jersey

and elsewhere. We're having this massive uncertainty about what these objects are.

There's a lot of rumors. It's causing fear and panic.
And once again, the Biden administration

and the Pentagon are unwilling to have a conversation with the American people and share what information they have. Why do you think that is, if you had to speculate? The biggest probability is they don't know.
If this is something that they've been struggling with for all these years and suddenly it's happening in a much larger capacity than it has in the past. They're not easily able to write it off, and they just don't have the answers.
Or perhaps they do have the answers, but they fall under a category of information, much like these objects, that they're not willing to have a public conversation about it. What is the best footage of the New Jersey drones? Why New Jersey, by the way? I don't know.
A lot of shipping. Also military base, right? Outside of Bell Labs, there's a military base.
And what else? The proximity to New York City, I guess. New York, D.C.
I mean, there's a lot of big cities right there. Yeah, all pretty close.
I've only seen a few interesting videos. And we're in this new realm of uncertainty when it comes to AI and it comes to Computer-generated images and video it's like I've seen so many I've seen me.
I've seen friends I've seen so much stuff. That's not real.
I'm like, okay. I don't know what's real anymore It's like especially when it comes to something that's kind of blurry.
It's in the sky and you got people on the ground i've seen so many fake ones you know there's just so many ones that people have generated you know i'm friends with jeremy corbell and jeremy uh i always send him like what the fuck is this you know i'll send some stuff to him is this bullshit and you know he's very good at like we don't really know i am very suspicious because of this this is what we know like let me send you some things that i know are uh not fake but we don't still don't know what they are and see the difference and so we'll have these long conversations and text message or phone calls about stuff like that but no one seems to be able there's not like one person you can go to.

I mean, you have your people that are dismissing everything,

think it's just hobbyists and crazy people.

But if they're not giving off signatures like that are standard with these normal drones,

like these heat signatures, and they're able to stay in the sky for hours and hours at a time,

just that alone points to at least if it's not our adversaries, if it's domestic, superior technology that we're not even aware of right now. I mean, how are they staying in the sky for five hours? Like what is the – if you've got like a top of the food chain drone, and who is it that is explaining to us the issue with why China has superior drone technology? It has something to do with the FAA.

Was it Andreessen?

I don't remember.

Well, someone was explaining the reason why most of these like high end – it might have actually been a green room conversation.

Yeah.

I still remember what you're talking about now.

Yeah.

So that the FAA and the rules and regulations have sort of stifled the development and the improvement of these domestic drones yeah and so most of the hobbyist drones are coming from China and China if you haven't seen has fucking incredible displays of drones yeah where they do yeah where they do like a drag in the sky it's amazing and it is because of regulations is because of the FAA dragging their heels, being incompetent or at least being overwhelmed, where this has not been able to progress domestically the way it's been able to do in China. And so that alone seems like a giant security threat.
The fact that China has had just full integration with the government and been able to have this technological innovation that allows their drones to be like super powerful. Like what they're able to do with these displays in the sky, unbelievable, like really wild stuff to see.
That seems like many, many leaps above what we can do. And, you know, the faux firework displays that these things put on are just one part of the puzzle, right? Because warfare is changing.
It's changing drastically. And this is, you know, something I've tried to raise the alarm bells on before the Ukraine war, but we're seeing it now.
You know, warfare is going to these highly mobile, non-traditional platforms where you can have, you know, a group of guys that are, you know, basically teenagers now going out and conducting operations with these small drones. And, you know, God forbid that an adversarial nation is now employing those technologies here in the United States.
And if it was Russia, if it was China and they were doing it directly, it'd be the equivalent of a declaration of war. I mean, they're essentially invading our land, right? Is there some avenue where they might be hiring criminal gangs in some way to do this in order to create a level of deniability for them? I don't know, but I'm certain that China and other nations are watching this unfold very carefully and detecting the gaps in our homeland defense systems, right? I mean, this is a major issue.
War is changing. And there are a lot of companies that, you know, within the private sector, and of course, within, you know, the normal, you know, defense contractor world that is building capabilities to be able to detect and mitigate drones, whether it's kinetically or through electronic warfare.
But we're not employing those. And oh, by the way, the electronic warfare measures that have been employed, employed against the New Jersey drones have been ineffective.
So they have tried to take these out with non-kinetic options, disabling your navigational systems, otherwise

trying to fry them, bring them down, has not been effective.

That's not good.

No.

No.

That's very concerning.

So is there any good footage that you could point to?

I don't even know where to look.

I've looked.

There's people on the news that have reported it, but the one clip I was looking at, they're

just showing a plane.

So that's not good.

I just found one, but it looks like a guy in the woods.

I don't know what the video is you know yeah that's the problem when they took it i know when they shot it they're saying it was last night but it could be it could have been right yeah it could be bullshit but this is part of the problem with this weird world that we're living in right now with fake information. It's so difficult to figure out what the hell is going on.
Did I send you that video, Jamie, of that guy where he's a CEO of a drone manufacturing company? This is the guy that made me the most nervous. I'll send it to you right now.
This guy made me the most nervous because this guy is talking about how this uh whatever the hell this stuff is uh he believes it's looking for a nuke i'll send this to you jamie the thing you tweeted no okay did i i don't know maybe this guy ceo of drone manufacturing company who has government contracts but the people you're talking to don't say it's this. That's correct.
So listen to what this guy's saying. CEO of Saxon Aerospace here in Wichita, Kansas.
I'm not normally a TikTok kind of a guy. I like watching this stuff every once in a while.
But I'm a manufacturer of unmanned aircraft, military-grade unmanned aircraft, as you can see one of my systems here. There's all of these mysterious drones going on off the East Coast, and as a professional, as a subject matter expert, I wanted to give you all my opinion on what i think could be going on with these drones i don't particularly believe that these have a nefarious intent i could be wrong but i want to give you the truth and what i believe it's my own opinion and i've not bounced this off of anybody so you know you think it's bullshit, whatever, that's cool.

I don't want to spread misinformation, as we know that there's a lot of that going around. But anyway, back in the 1980s, Ronald Reagan had dismantled the nuclear program, And there were, with Russia, there were countless nuclear missiles that were that were disarmed and disposed of well there were over 80 i believe there were over 80 uh nuclear warheads that were in ukraine that came up missing okay uh we don't know where they are maybe somebody does but nobody really knows where these are and I you know I speak with some pretty high-level government officials on this stuff and it seems as though that is the case so I spoke to a gentleman a few months ago who was trying to raise an alarm to the highest levels of our government, which they had their ears closed, about this one particular nuclear warhead that he physically put his hands on.
And he physically touched this warhead that was left over from Ukraine.

And he knew that that thing was headed towards the United States. put his hands on.
He physically touched this warhead that was left over from Ukraine.

And he knew that that thing was headed towards the United States. Okay.
That is a very serious deal. And everyone knows that the United States government, this administration, is pushing to get into a war with Russia.
We all know that. We all feel it.
We all see it. Okay? Well, back up a few years.
Do you all remember when those drones were mysteriously flying across the Interstate 70 corridor from Colorado up into Nebraska, down here into Kansas, and out into Missouri? Well, it was believed that those drones were looking for radioactive material because there had been some material that came up missing here in the United States. And they felt like it was a high probability that the nuclear or the radioactive material would be taken along the Interstate 70 corridor heading east or west or south.
So, from what we understand, they were out there trying to find this radioactive material. Now, drones, they have no reason to be in the air at night unless you're doing some type of ISR work, intelligence surveillance reconnaissance, you know, looking for bad guys or looking for a victim, a search and rescue victim or law enforcement or some type of military project, right? There's no reason for a drone to be flying at night, really, okay? Because they don't see shit.
So, you know, unless you have thermal optics, drones really don't see stuff. You need to do mapping during the day.
If you're going to do farming stuff, mostly do it during the day.

The only reason why you would ever fly an aircraft, an unmanned aircraft at night, is if you're looking for something, whether it be a person or trying to smell gas. We have methane gas detection systems that can detect gas leaks in pipelines.
You really wouldn't use thermal optics for trying to find gas leaks just simply because the only way you're actually going to find a gas leak with thermal optics is if the gas leak is aggressive enough that it has a difference in temperature. Because thermal imaging, it creates a digital image based off the temperature variance.
So whatever is different in temperature, it creates an image. Gas, usually gas leaks so slow that it goes quickly into ambient before you can even see it.
So we have special sensors that can detect gas leaks. We also have special sensors that can detect radioactive material.
So with this gentleman that I had spoken with who was trying to raise the alarm to try to get somebody in the government to say, hey, we need to work together to go try to find this nuclear warhead, none of that ever happened. They knew that warhead was on its way to the United States.
That's all that ever came of it. Nothing ever happened.
This government did not do anything at all to help this gentleman raise the alarm and raise awareness that there is a very uh deadly weapon on its way to the united states no well go ahead unless maybe he's got something else when i was this up, we have six nuclear heads that we've lost.

The United States has.

One of them has been gone for like 71 years or something like that.

Oh, wonderful.

Didn't know that.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

Maybe they'll find them.

I mean, there's probably a couple in the bottom of the ocean somewhere.

Someone's going to find.

Yeah, I'm sure they're sitting there.

I mean, wasn't there like a Russian submarine that sank and they lied to us about it?

Wasn't that can neither confirm nor deny? Isn't that where that came from? I'm not familiar. Yeah, that was from a Radiolab podcast.
The term can neither confirm nor deny was one of those things where they had to answer a question, but they didn't want to answer it. So they said we can neither confirm nor deny deny.
That's the answer. And so that has become a way.
Yeah. The Glomar response refers to a covert CIA operation where a ship named the Hughes Glomar Explorer was used to recover a sunken Soviet submarine.
When questioned about the operation, the agency responded with, can neither confirm nor deny. Implication when someone says can neither confirm nor deny, they're essentially saying they cannot provide any information on the matter leaving the question unanswered so they answered it without answering it because they were compelled to answer and they said we can either confirm nor deny which is interesting because like if you're like in a senate hearing and someone says something like that like what do you now i know you're being sneaky what did you did you just say? What do you mean you can either confirm or deny? Shut the fuck up with all those words.
You can't use all those words anymore. You're being tricky.
So I want you to tell me what you know. Say it like that, you know? Tell me what you know.
What do you know? Well, I mean, watching that video, no, I think there's a few pieces that are still outstanding, connections that outstanding for me um a supposed u.s citizen physically touched a nuclear weapon that was then lost and he he knew exactly where it was going somehow why was he there why was he touching it why was he touching it was he why would you touch it was he amongst enemies and they were carting the weapon off he just got his fingers on it or even like doing an x-ray why is this motherfucker touching nuclear warheads yeah and then the jump is that that weapon eventually ended up somewhere on the eastern seaboard and the people that would be responsible for investigating such an issue are not even aware of it even while somehow our government is flying hundreds of drones around to detect it. So it's compelling.
It's interesting. But I don't know if it connects.
I think there's a few connections short of being able to say that's exactly what's going on here, especially after the conversations I've had. Yeah.
My other thought on that would be if you are a military contractor and you design and implement drone systems How much do they tell you about foreign policy? Why would they tell you why would they tell you about those type of things if you did raise an like how much information with this guy be privy to? Yeah, very little to be very specific to his actual responsibilities his engineering work work. Right.
Whereas, like, I can call you, and you actually need to fucking see these things. It's kind of a different connection to the information than this guy has.
And he seems nervous. You know? I mean.
Well, he should be. He may truly believe that.
Spilling the beans. Yeah.
He's saying a bunch of stuff that I don't think you're supposed to be saying anyway. Like, why are you saying that? Like, I get if you really did believe that, that you would want everyone to know that there's a nuclear warhead missing.
But the other thing that I keep hearing is that the government is not telling us that these are ours. They are ours, but not telling us that these are ours because whatever they're looking for would cause mass panic.
What's on the plate then after weapons of mass destruction? Right. Let me, yeah, what is on the plate? I mean, in my eyes, nothing.
Like, that's it, right? That's the thing that everybody would really be worried about. The second thing would be that our adversaries are using these things to siphon up information, that it's like some mass Wi-Fi router that's flying over cities and sucking up everybody's passwords.
As we move into this new, very bizarre realm of AI and now quantum computing, I had a conversation with someone last night who was explaining to me how cryptography and encryption and all this stuff is literally on the verge of being obsolete and that this is going to put the financial markets into a chaos. All your passwords, everybody's email, everything is out the window.
There's no more encryption. It's not even going to be possible.
These things are are solving mark andreason explained it this way that these quantum computers are solving equations that if you took every atom in the universe and converted it into computing power the time it would take to solve these equations would be longer than the time that the universe would exist before it died of heat death. And they're able to do it in minutes.
So the concept is, and this is where it gets super weird, that this is proof of the multiverse because these computers are using the computing power of perhaps infinite parallel universes Simultaneously to achieve these answers Which is like what are you saying? Like what the fuck did you just say? Do you just say that if you took every molecule in the universe and convert it into computing power It wouldn't be able to do this this thing that you have in a fucking warehouse somewhere that this thing has more Computational power in this it's like as big as this room Then the fucking universe if it was a computer What are you saying? Like and you're saying this is the proof of the multiverse? What does that even fucking mean? And what happens if China gets this online? If we're able to do these equations, right? It's kind of almost like proof of concept of the technology being efficient or efficacious. If they're able to do that, what if someone is more advanced than us and gets this connected to AI and implement some sort of a strategy for complete global domination of power grids, financial markets, completely takes control of assets, closes down government computers, locks up databases, deletes any information that's pertinent to who knows what, power grid, fucking informational structures like satellites, cell phones, all of our radio signals, shuts everything down.
It shuts it all down. We're fucking helpless.
Most cars have computers in them. Most people don't even know this.
Your car has a computer in it when you have a chevy and you bring it to the dealership they plug it in to see what's going on and the computer and they're like if something shuts those off no cars work everything's open everything's fucked the only you have old cars that's it everybody's like cuba everyone's driving around these these ancient parts yeah i mean we'd basically a big have to go back to carburetors all the electronic fuel injection all the shit done it's all done my understanding runs on an ECU my understanding is that this isn't this is something China has been looking forward to so what I mean by that is that they have not just been working on this technology in order to break our encryption now, but have been storing our encrypted data from in the past such that when they do have that breakthrough, they have a lot of data to be able to utilize it on, not just what's happening now. I know this is absolutely happening because my friend, my friend Bobby, owns the Coda, the racetrack in town.
And when they the Formula One race at the at his racetrack they found these boxes that were connected to their this Wi-Fi system and these boxes were outside so the public Wi-Fi system had been compromised by these data sucking boxes and so they called in Homeland Security they had them removed the whole deal. But someone had gotten to the racetrack and physically connected these boxes to a public Wi-Fi system.
How many times is that going on where people don't notice it? This is not the first time they've done it. They picked a race in Austin.
Yeah, we're going to get all those fucking race fans, suck up all their data. It doesn't even make any sense, right? This is something that's probably been implemented before.
It's like, what are they doing with that data? I think they typically refer to that as a man in the middle attack. So you think you're connecting to the regular Wi-Fi, but you're actually connecting to the adversary's Wi-Fi, sending your data through there, and then they send that to the original box that you thought you're communicating with.
And so they get all the information. So all your passwords, anything you're sending, yeah.
Exactly. Yeah.
That's how they try to crack the Tor network as well. Really? If you're familiar with that.
Yeah. By setting up their own servers, essentially, to serve as a man-in-the-middle attack.
But back to your point about China trying to work on quantum computing on AI, I think China is probably one of the biggest motivating factors that the government has right now for opening up the conversation on UAP. So we haven't had this peer threat that we have to worry about that has a totally different investment government structure than we have.
So in the United States, we have this capitalist market, and we have innovations that break out through that model, like OpenAI. But there are some capabilities where they are not appetizing to the market itself, right? For example, how do we just suddenly stand up a chip fabrication facility in the United States that competes with the operations in Taiwan, right.
It's not something that a VC is going to invest in. It's going to take billions and billions of dollars.
And it could fail. Exactly.
Like the Samsung one that they put here. Exactly.
Well, they did that because the government took a new approach. They stepped in and said, we're going to financially support this.
We're going to open up the piggy banks. We're going to help with regulations and laws.
And we're going to make this happen as soon as practically possible. That's the model that China uses all the time, right? They see something, they go for it, they invest the money, they invest the resources.
There's a risk with that. You could be wrong about the efficacy of the technology that you're trying to put forward.
It could be strategically misaligned. But if China is having the same issues with the UAP that we are having, then you could imagine them putting a lot of resources into better understanding that situation in a way that we're just not equipped to do.
And the fact that this conversation has grown more, that their advancements have been getting better, I think there is this pressure right now within the US government that if we do not further invest, somehow bring in the primary innovation makers within our economy, within the startup community, within the scientific community into this problem, if it's still just buried in a classified area, then we're going to get outcompeted by China that is able to dump all these resources into it. How do you do that, though, if these people that create these things are motivated by money, right? If they're motivated by profits, if they run major corporations, like how can you convince them to invest in something that is ultimately not going to pay off like it would if you were investing in a consumer product? Yeah, I think it can.
I mean, we have a model for that in the United States with deep technology and edge technology. These are capabilities that

don't fit into a normal VC's life cycle of five or six years before you're seeing returns. It

might take 10 years before you have a product, right? And there's a lot of risks that they

could fail along the way. But that's where we get a lot of our major innovations from.
That's where

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Energy production, and every one of these has huge potential added value to our economy. I mean, to the level that AI has, right? So, you know, there's a couple ways you can go about it.
You know, you can either create a new investment cycle or structure that is more tolerant to the risk and more tolerant to extended time to returns, which, you know, you got to fight market force with that. You could have the government step in, perhaps through the Office of Strategic Capital and others to be able to support venture capitalists that are looking to make investments in these longer term technologies, perhaps in concert with the National Science Foundation that does a lot of work in this area.
Or you can try to structure your technologies such that they provide value to existing capabilities during the research and development process. So what I mean by that, and I've been working this problem for 10 years, Joe.
Sounds like it. I've thrown my entire self into this.
I've approached it with my nonprofit, American for Safe Aerospace. I've been working in the private sector.
I've been collaborating with government and others. And there is a path where the capabilities to better understand this topic are aligned with our defensive needs, right? If we had total situational awareness of our airspace, that's a very valuable thing to the Department of Defense.
And those are contracts you can win. Those are reasonable investments you can make through normal market forces.
And then you keep working to be able to use those existing products in those markets to bring out technology that is related to the UAP topic, whether that be detection, perhaps propulsion, energy, things of that nature. So you have to find these core technologies that the government wants that is also aligned with the better understanding of UAP.
Now, the way you're describing this sounds like it could be done, but China's already done that. So, like, how far behind the curve are we on the implementation of this technology? Well, it's an unknown how far China is.
You know, there are some rumors, and I'm not even going to mention them because they're too low confidence, but there does seem— Come on, I love a good low confidence rumor. There does seem to be investment that's been made.
There are talk that they are having the same problems and perhaps have been better motivated than we are to investigate ones that they have been able to recover. Do you know about the anti-gravity lady that went missing, went back to China? Ning Li.
Yeah. What's your thoughts on that type of technology? It's interesting.
I was mentioning this out front with some of the guys earlier. There seems to be these interesting technologies that were once ridiculed back in the day, whether it be anti-gravity, cold fusion, others.
It's a good way to get rid of stuff. Ridicule it.
Yeah. I'm very familiar with that strategy.
Lab leak. They did it with a lot of stuff.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
And they all just went dark for like 30, 40 years. But some of those capabilities seem to be popping back up in mainstream scientific circles.
Have you ever heard Eric Weinstein discuss this? Mm-hmm. He has some very fucking, you got to get that tinfoil hat really tightly secured to your head.
But he believes that this is one of the reasons why physics has sort of stalled over the last 20 years. He thinks some of the best minds have been moved into a project and that it very well might be something along these lines, something along some like super advanced propulsion system.
Mark Anderson had the same conversation with the White House, right? Talking about classifying AI technology and math and that they've done it before. What is this? Justin, Trump says he's staying away from his New Jersey golf club amid the drone sightings.
The government doesn't know what's happening. Our military knows.
You said they know what's happening. Oh, the government knows what's happening.
Our military knows where they took off from. They know where it came from and where it went.
Something strange is going on. Play the video.
Yeah, sure. Let's hear it.
The government knows what is happening. Look, our military knows where they took off from.
If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went.
And for some reason, they don't want to comment. And I think they'd be better off saying what it is.
Our military knows and our president knows. And for some reason, they want to keep people in suspense.
I can't imagine it's the enemy because it was the enemy that blasted out even if they were late they'd blasted something strange is going on for some reason they don't want to tell the people and they should because the people are really I mean they happen to be over Bedminster they're very they're very close to that mince I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster. I've decided to cancel my trip.
I don't want to comment on that. I didn't want to comment on intelligence briefing.
We can figure this out, Joe. Like I said, it's a hard problem, but it's not an unsolvable problem.
There are technologies that we could go out in the field within a couple weeks, employ, see if we can find the RF signals, and try to trace them back. We don't have to rely on the government for us.
Let's do it. Well, how would we do it? Well, come join American Safe Aerospace.
What do I have to do? Come to my website, safeaerospace.org. We'll go out there.
Go to that website. Let's see what we're going to do.
We're almost the largest UAP organization in the world right now. Really? And, you know, when I talk to people in Congress and the executive branch, you know, I point to them and say, hey, you know, we're 13,588 people care about about this issue.
This allows us to be able to go in there and talk seriously about this conversation. So, Jamie, sign up.
Put in your email there. Don't show the world your email, though.
Jesus Christ, people are going to know. They're going to know, Jamie.
They're going to hear the amount of clicks that you make. These fuckers,ers they they're very clever we get us to the largest UAP organization in the world right now on this in the show Joe well there you go now we're 13,589 congratulations Jamie so what would you do so now that you've joined what can you do we've been working with some drone Oh, boy.
What does your submit report inbox look like?

How many schizophrenics are in there?

Well, you know, it's not too bad, honestly.

Really?

You occasionally get, you know, your people that are questionable.

How do you separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were?

It's pretty easy.

You know, we focus on commercial aviators, military aviators, veterans.

We receive reports from the random person on the ground.

But what's really interesting, because of the work we've been doing, so many people, so many pilots have felt more comfortable reporting. Every major airline is seeing this.
I've talked with pilots from every major airline. Some of them are standing up their own UAP working groups within their airlines to be able to report on this.
I'm working closely with them on this. But what's interesting is we get these reports from pilots, and we can often then see similarities or even perhaps the exact same object that's being reported by people on the ground.
So one particular example over Atlanta Airport a few years ago, there was a relatively large object brightly lit about 8,000 feet over Atlanta, four or five commercial airliners called it in. ATC didn't know what it was.
The object started to accelerate level due south. And then to what I call like conventional speeds as fast as an airliner, and then took off much faster, continuing due south.
And all these pilots witnessed it. We received those reports.
And then the next day we received a report from, you know, a random lady in Florida that happened to be basically due south from Atlanta. She took a picture of the object, exact same object.
Do we have access to that photo? I do. Can we see it? I don't have it.
What do you mean you don't have it? How can you not have that on your fucking screen? I'll text it to you. Wouldn't you have that, Jamie? Wouldn't that be like your wallpaper? I would have the Apple you could cycle from a bunch of wallpapers.
I'd put my kids on when I get home. But through the day...
Top favorites. You can air drop that to me if you have access to it.
I'd have my dog. I'd have the UFO.
I might have to get in your Wi-Fi. But, you know, getting back...
We can get you in the Wi-Fi. We can't figure this out, Joe.
I talk with engineers, scientists, CEOs at drone companies, counter drone companies. We can bring the capabilities.
We could be out there in two weeks detecting and tracking these objects. Well, What do you think about what Trump is saying though that they already do know and that they have tracked it But the government just does not want to tell us.
So what's that leave us?

Well that leaves us either an enemy or us right so it either leaves us

They're not concerned because this is something that they're doing with us

What if they're trying to get us comfortable? Because they know that some real UAPs are on the way well you want to go all the way out there if you really wanted to get people relaxed to the idea of flying saucers like legitimate whatever the hell they are wherever the hell they're from if you wanted if you knew that was coming and you didn't want mass panic, what would you do?

You would trickle it in.

You would trickle it in slowly.

You'd have a bunch of drones hovering over cities for weeks and months at a time.

You would get people really accustomed to the news cycle having UAPs in it.

And then real ones show up.

It doesn't feel like a trickle right now, though. Well, you would do it this way.
It's a trickle for me I'm not seeing shit. Yeah, okay.
I'm out here in Texas. We were at We were looking at the sky last night.
We're to the mothership Christmas party. No UFOs So it's a trickle in relatively to the world Right like you have a bunch of them hovering over New Jersey You have a few of them in San Diego You have them in different areas if you knew that you a piece were coming and you were in the government and you said What what can we do? Well, you'd probably bring in psychologists and they would these psychologists would explain human patterns of reacting to change in environments, especially radical changes in civilization and culture and like what can be done to mitigate the brutality of this process.
Like the ultimate mass freak out that's going to come if UFOs come. Get people just so accustomed to UFO, like the mask thing, right? sounds like a ridiculous comparison but like Five years ago if people walk around wearing masks you'd go what is going on is that a what's happening here? It would make you uncomfortable.
You know someone walked into a Bank with a mask on you look what the fuck are you crazy now? You have to do it It's this very strange so it took a while, but then it became normal. Yeah.
If they wanted to make it normal that things are in the sky, you put things in the sky. You put a bunch of things in the sky, and you don't explain it, and you have them there all the time.
And you let people speculate, and you put a lot of wild theories on it. Maybe they're looking for a nuke.
Oh, they're looking for a nuke. Bobby heard they're looking for a nuke.
Timmy got an email. Don't worry.
It's just aliens, not a nuke. Well, it's probably not even.
It's probably our shit. Or, you know, some unknown agency is involved in this.
The government's not concerned because they know exactly what's happening. That's why there's not shooting them down.
That's why they're not scr Jets. That's why they're not doing all these things that Trump's asking why they're doing this thing If you knew something was coming if you knew that these things that you're seeing float in the sky that are a clear circle with a black Square inside of it and they can hover at 120 knots completely still which doesn't make any sense no heat signature What is it? What the fuck is that and what if a bunch of them are coming well put a bunch of shit in the sky freak these dummies out that's what i would do i would get all of our best drones and just fly them around hover over cities hover over laguardia hover over the white house who gives a fuck just get people weirded out and get them accustomed to ufos you ever see district nine yeah we see that movie great movie right yeah really fucking fun movie but it's kind of what would happen if aliens were here there's like alien camps we had them we would just get used to it after a while yeah we get used to shit the way we live is so entirely alien to people that lived just 200 years ago that if you brought someone from the pioneer days and you put them in a Tesla and then you drove them to the movie theater and then you took them to a concert.

Like, what the fuck is going on?

And then you showed them your phone.

You're like, I'm going to FaceTime my mom.

Look at that.

That's my mom.

What's up, mom? It's crazy. But we're accustomed to it.
We're so accustomed to it that people tell you to get off your phone. Hey, get off your phone.
You're always on your phone. Live your life.
Get off your phone. You're so connected to this bizarre new world that we live in.
But it's accustomed. We're accustomed to it.
It's normal. It's completely normalized.
If I wanted to normalize the idea of us being invaded, I just want to put stuff in the sky all the time. Fly around with experimental aircrafts.
Do like a low trajectory over a city and some new stealth bomber. Freak these fucking people out.
Get them used to being freaked out. And then when the real ones come ones come it's much less of a blow Hmm well some politicians just as soon as yesterday Chuck Schumer Robert Garcia in the house They've started to kind of use the whole drone and or UAP in their messaging right they started to change their language Did you get that photo Jesse? Jamie or Jamie.
Pull it up, young Jesse. I sent it the wrong guy.
Maybe that's why. We were talking about Jesse before.
That's why. You can airdrop it to me.
That'd probably be the fastest way. Yeah, it says it's waiting.
Is it the Jamie MacBook Pro? Yeah, I have two. I'm looking at both of them.
I didn't get anything. You want to just text it to me and I'll send it to him? Yeah See, even with this fucking high level technology that we have They're shutting us down They're shutting us down, bro Yeah, I was thinking that last night I was like, why does my Bluetooth keep skipping out when I'm trying to stream music? But I realized that there were so many people connected to the Bluetooth And if you have that that Spotify thing on where you're sharing, it's like, I forget what it's called.
But like a bunch of people can contribute songs. They can all like add to your little playlist while it's going on.
Dangerous. It fucks.
Yeah, it's dangerous. All of it's dangerous.
I'm like that close to getting one of them crazy de-Googled phones. But I'm like, how's that even work? They had a good one.
I get it. I think, you know, Eric Prince apparently has a good one.
He's got something called the unplugged phone. It actually has a physical button you can switch where it deactivates the battery as well.
Like separates, like a little piece of plastic goes between where the battery connects. And so, because even if you shut your phone off, they can still listen to you.
Like that sounds so crazy, but it is absolutely true. And you can't take your battery out of your phone anymore.
It's like a convenient thing in order to make it waterproof. Sorry.
Your battery. And then it's also it's like planned obsolescence.
So your battery's going to die. You're going to need an iPhone 17, Ryan.

Come on.

I don't know where they can sell new ones.

I got a new Zoom feature.

Come on.

You need this in your life.

You need this new Zoom feature.

You need that extra 50,000 megapixels or whatever the fuck it is.

You know, it's just, I don't know.

I think privacy is kind of gone.

And I think it's going to be super gone with these quantum computers It's it's over like there's no privacy and I think the real problem is the financial market. It's all numbers Right, it's all just ones and zeros Yeah, if somebody controls that before we do if somebody breaks through with this type of technology and then just shuts all the other ones off like how many Bitcoin to the rescue maybe I don't even know what is it doesn't Bitcoin get compromised Google says it's breakthrough quantum chip can't break modern cryptography sure like they said it like this now we can't even break any of your codes theow chip is not capable of breaking modern cryptography.
Well, listen, I don't believe that, first of all. And second of all, my real concern is this is one step in this.
We are about to go off of a technological cliff. This is one step.
ChatGPT was one step. They're about to do ChatGPT5, which is magnitudes greater power than ChatGPT.
It's supposed to be like a giant leap. And that ain't shit.
That ain't shit compared to AGI, which they think 2025. So artificial general intelligence and then connected to a quantum computer and Google is literally Talking about they have plans to put their own nuclear power plants to power their AI systems It needs so much power.
They want three nuclear power plants. That's why what are you about to do? What are you doing you fucking eggheads? What are you doing? Are you guys making God like what the fuck are you doing? Do you even know what you're doing this movie? I swear it hasn't even made yet And the problem is if you don't do it our enemies gonna do it Yeah, and we're so shitty at communicating with other human beings all across the world We've been stealing resources and overthrowing governments for so long that nobody trusts us.
And then while all that's going on, we're in the middle of creating an artificial intelligence that's infinitely smarter than us and might be working in parallel universes. Like if you can do an equation and you're telling me that this equation through these quantum computers is proof of a multiverse.
What happens if AGI gets connected to the multiverse? Do you even know? Are you just doing it? Do you even know? Can you tell me what's the best case scenario? What's worst case scenario? Can you tell me what you've thought about? Or instead of just fucking all gas, no brakes? And everyone's all gas, no brakes. We're all fucking hot riders on the highway.
Headed towards this weird thing that no one really knows what it's going to be. But everyone agrees it's the greatest technological breakthrough the human race has ever experienced.
And it's happening so fast. And most people are like, what? What's going on? What are they doing over there? Most people, if they're not listening to podcasts, they're not on Twitter every day and they're not on Facebook and they're not really paying attention to this stuff, most people are blissfully unaware we're about to awaken a God.
Blissfully unaware we're about to connect to some insane technology that hasn't even been... It's so insane that it's sort of like one of those things where somebody tries to tell you how many stars there are in the universe you know what like can't comprehend it your head goes what does that mean like what are the what's the number what like when they were saying that it can do uh it can compute something that all the world's supercomputers, it would take some septillion number of years to do that it can do it in 15 minutes.
What are you even saying? I don't even know what you just said. I know that if you told me how many zeros to write, I could probably keep doing it until I got to the right amount of zeros.
I don't know what the fuck that means. My's my brain's good for like 150 500 people those three that looks like about 3 000 people i was at the the formula one racetrack i'm like how many people were in this we're seeing m m like how many people are here i took a guess like 50 000 i don't know it's 110 000.
it was like i was rough by 50 000. my brain doesn't understand numbers yeah and then you get to millions imagine like looking at a group of people.
Oh, that's about 2 million. No, you can't do it.
You can recognize like 150 people. It looks like about 150 people.
When things get big, they just get too weird. And the universe is insanely big.
Insanely big. So your brain just doesn't do it.
It just... Everybody's brain.
Even the most... Neil deGrasse Tyson you get a good

astrophysicist get one of those guys they're not gonna be able to the brains not built for it so this thing is so much more powerful than even that even the whole universe as a computation as a computer like that doesn't even make sense and they're just What are we doing we have AI we have quantum we have Mysterious objects showing up on the yeah on the coast it does seem like a lot of things converging right now Well if I was an advanced civilization that had already passed this stage, maybe this is like a common stage. Maybe this is just like how bees all over the world make beehives.
They all do the same thing, right? Maybe this is a strange stage that intelligent life gets to when it reaches a point of technological sophistication where it can create an artificial version of a thinking being. And then that thinking being, of course, creates infinitely better versions of itself and figures out a way to harness power in a way that's just, we can't even comprehend, which is what a quantum computer connected to AGI would be able to do.
Maybe that's like, maybe they know that this happens and they're like, oh, it's about to happen. And so then they come.
Like, wasn't there a meeting, some sort of a, there was another good tinfoil hat one. I was like, ooh, what are they talking about? There was some super top secret meeting with the people from the James Webb telescope because of something they had discovered.
There was some thing that they had seen that they decided, and I don't know what that means. You know, if you really wanted to get terrified you'd say oh my god an asteroid's coming and it might be that or it might be there's some new thing that sort of rewrites the the date of the beginning of the big bang which is they're kind of starting to talk about doing that now they're trying to there's some people that want to push the creation of the universe back to about like 22 billion years instead of like 13 point whatever it is now who

cares why keep that secret you know that's not going to freak people out but well that's i'm

just being charitable i'm saying like or there's something out there or there's something that they

know is headed our way you know it is i mean it is possible we're doing it we send things to mars

Thank you. Or there's something that they know is headed our way.
You know, it is, I mean, it is possible. We're doing it.
We send things to Mars, right? And if we know that we're going through this thing right now, we're about to create an AGI, we're about to implement quantum computing in this country, who knows what they're doing in other countries if this is just like a thing that Beings go through and we get past this and then we find another planet out there That's also like dropping nuclear bombs on it We would probably start circling that planet and making sure they don't fuck the whole thing up I mean, it just seems like to be you It's probably insanely difficult to get intelligent life to the position that we're in right now in a volatile universe that's subject to natural disasters, asteroid impacts, super volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, all different things that could wipe out technology and bring it back to the caveman days. You know, if all that is known and this is going on all throughout the universe, it'd probably be in their best interest to sort of protect this investment in evolution and not have us knock back to the Stone Age and have to start all over again.
Not have us nuke ourselves to the point it was like 13 of us left, you know? Well, outside of, you know, us nuking ourselves, what do you think that the Trump administration oncoming Trump administration should do about the UAP topic I think yes I have he couldn't tell me anything I tried to get it out of him he wasn't it wouldn't tell me shit you basically you know I've seen some things I know some things transparency I Transparency, I think, is very important.

I think peel the fucking Band-Aid off. Tell us what you're doing.
Tell us what you know. And if you can't, I have to think that it's a military intelligence thing.
Like you don't want the enemy to know what you're capable of, which I totally understand. You know, if that's what's going on and that's why they can't tell us, that actually makes sense.
But if it it's not that and it's that we are experiencing contact on a regular basis with something that we can't explain or understand you you don't you don't have the right to that you don't have the right to that information that's not yours to that's the human races like people love to have fucking super top secrets That no one else can know and you're in the end but you can't have that one you can't have that one if you're telling me that you have to do it because we've developed some sort of a gravity propulsion system that's infinitely superior to anything the soviet union has or the russia has or china has fine that's not my business i'm not in the business of the military and national security if that's why you can't tell us I totally understand but if you are in contact with fucking aliens and you know they exist you know there's something that visits us whether it's from another dimension or whether it's from another planet that's not yours that's not yours to tell you can't treat us like fucking babies like like we can't handle this. If you actually have recovered a crashed UFO, look, I understand the implications of national security if you're trying to back engineer that thing.
I understand that. If you're saying like we have to get to this, if China gets to this, this is a game changer, we're fucked, I get it.
anything else you have to tell us because it doesn't make any sense that you some unelected

official who some guy who's working in coordination with Raytheon or whatever the fuck you're doing, you can't keep that shit secret. That's the world's information.
You know, that should be a crime. This is something the human race needs to know we didn't know it's bullshit

we need to look again if it's our stuff and we can't say anything about it because we can't let china know that we have that and we did huddle up these fucking physicists in some obscure college and we did create some wild shit that the rest of the world is not really ready for or doesn't understand yet, maybe we're way ahead of the curve in that.

Other than that, you got to fucking tell us. You got to tell us what the fuck is going on.
I agree with you. And how is it happening like back in 2004? This is where it gets squirrely.
Where it gets squirrely is like in 2004, we didn't even have a fucking iPhone. Okay.
So in 2004, everybody had flip phones. You were the shit if you had a Motorola Razr.
You were living in the future. You know? So that's not feasible that you would have something that moves like the Tic Tac in 2004.
That's not feasible. That doesn't make any sense to me.
you have something that can go from 50,000 feet above sea level to 50 in a second What like what's what is what what's it made out of that? It doesn't disintegrate like what what is that? How fast is that? What the fuck does that even mean that's space you go from space to the surface of the water in a second? How? It's the equivalent of multiple nuclear bombs going off and energy expenditure. How is that possible in 2004? Like, that doesn't even make any sense to me.
So if it's not ours and if it's not some back engineered stuff, then what's going on? You know, I think there's two conversations that kind of go on in this topic, right? And I think they both help each other out. And you've been talking about it right now.
They don't have the right to keep these essential pieces of knowledge from us about our universe, right? And I see that as the conversation around disclosure. What does the government know? What are they going to reveal to us? And we can integrate it into our knowledge.
But I think there's an as important side of the conversation called discovery, if you will. Right.
But what can we learn in the public sphere outside of the classification window that allows us to understand what's going on outside of the reins and control of the government itself? And I feel like they're mutually supportive, right? The more disclosure and conversation there is within government, the more that people are motivated on the outside to investigate this and research it and invest into it. And the more that that work is done is it pressures the disclosure side of the conversation to keep up with the conversation and share with it.
Now, I don't know if we're going to get to a point of of full disclosure like you just talked about without increased pressure on the discovery side on the public side because I think they would be content to keep that information quiet I don't know if Trump would be content to do that you know and I don't know if Tulsi would be content to do that either you know if she's going to be she's what the director of national intelligence if she's confirmed. Yeah if she's confirmed But here's the thing it's like what we were talking about before if it is a national security issue and Fuck how is it not right? Like if Bob Lazar is telling the truth, right? Let's go to the wackiest of the wacky ones right because Bob's story, I don't mean because Bob's wacky.
I mean because it's 1989. Okay, so we're in the 80s, right? Cars suck.
Fucking, you know, fighter jets of the 1980s. Imagine, like, the fighter jets that you flew in comparison to a fighter jet from, like, 1983.
Yeah, no internet, really, to speak of even back then. Yeah.
There was, like, a by physical cords or something probably but that time period we did not have what he was describing if what he was describing is accurate and then when you see that gimbal footage that thing is moving exactly the way he described it where he said it's built like your classic flying that's actually an image of it right there that that little model that we have um this that's what he described so that this is what we're not 1989 he's saying that this thing when it would fly it would turn sideways It would turn like 90 degrees and that's where it would Whatever the fuck kind of generator that's inside of it. It would point it in the general direction want to go That's what the gimbal did the gimbal turn in that way and what he's describing in this Reactor is some sort of an element and it it's element 115.
And whoever has created this thing is a stable version of this element. And when it's blasted with radiation, it creates some sort of a warp in space-time in some way.
Whether it's gravity or whatever it does, it folds time, and it just shoots off at insane rates of speed. But the things inside of it, I would imagine, aren't experiencing G-force the way it does the traditional propulsion system.
It's the only way a biological thing could survive, right? But then I'm thinking, why would it even be biological? If it's so much more advanced than us we're already

Creating artificial limbs. We're already creating artificial eyes

We're already putting neural links into people and we're fucking apes

We're apes and we're like Joe fucking hole and stick some wires in there

Let's see what we can do to Timmy, you know now Timmy can fucking use his eyeballs like we had a the the no

The guy who's in there was the first ever Neuralink yeah, and he his name's Noah, right? Noel Nolan sorry Nolan cool guy. I just have too many names in my head no disrespect But he has a his he uses eyeballs like a cursor like he can he says like an aim bot when he's playing video games so he plays video games better than people that can use their hands because he could like he shoots like exactly where he's looking at which is nuts so how how many years have to pass think about from like 2004 no iphone to today what we've got and meta virtual reality sets how many years have to pass before it's more effective to go through the world being completely integrated into like an artificial creation? Not much.
Not much where we're cyborgs. Not much where, well, why would you want regular eyes? Your kid has regular eyes? That's crazy.
Get them the new eyes. They have infrared, radar.
They can detect gases. You can move away.
It's like safety. It's better for you.
You see better. You never go blind.
When they go bad, they replace them. Everybody would just get the fake eyes.
It's just like a jet, right? I mean, fighter jets, they used to be barreling around out there looking for objects, looking for targets. But, you know, we're able to integrate and update all the technology that allows us to interact with the world.
It's not put right into our brain yet, although they are working on that. So maybe those things are what happens when technology and biology integrate over a long period of time.
And they probably have eliminated all of our primate desires and weirdness that makes progress problematic. Greed and envy and trying to steal from resources from other countries and invasions and tribal behavior and manipulation and propaganda and lying.
They probably can all read minds, so there's no more lying they're they've no need for Physical muscles. That's why they look like these little fucking spindly things.
It kind of makes sense like that. That's where Evolution and technology if they merged that's what it would look like It would look like some weird fucking thing where they all look the same so nobody gives a shit and they control one of the things lazar said these things have no switches or buttons or there's no controls inside of them so he thinks they're controlling them with their minds yeah with their intention perhaps their mind is integrated and you know we think about that like that sounds so crazy but how much crazier is that than typing things with your thumb it's not that much crazier than what you can do by facetiming someone like sending video it's not that crazy it's not that crazy that your brain could eventually integrate completely with technology excuse me and if you're a cyborg then you have to worry about all the biological issues that we deal with all the cancer cancer and fucking pollutants.
You don't have to worry about any of that shit. And then you're inside this ship that you're completely connected to and you can move it in any way you want.
Might as well be your body at that point. It might as well be your body.
And that's probably the future. That's probably the future here on earth, even if we don't fuck this up.
You know, there's some, we talked about China a little bit, and, you know, some theoretical ways they might be investing in these deeper technologies. But, you know, I've spoken with people that are intimately involved in deep technology at the National Science Foundations and others, and what brought them into this conversation and realized that we were falling behind on these capabilities because they attended an international consortium with, believe it or not, there were several members from China there.
And they very specifically were asking for collaboration in some of these very deep technologies. So, you know, we talked about how, you know, gravity manipulation, right? Kind of went dark for a while.
Well, they call it something slightly different now, and it's something that China and others are actively researching. They call it extended electrodynamics.
Same thing with cold feet. What is the difference between saying gravity and extended electrodynamics? Yeah, so extended electrodynamics.
Electrodynamics essentially is a series of equations that we utilize to understand the electromagnetic spectrum.

But there's like a large portion of those equations that we kind of just throw out because we don't utilize them in our normal engineering and scientific work. So they're there, they're part of the equation, but we really don't know how to use them yet.
And people are starting to think that by integrating the full understanding of electrodynamics to extended electrodynamics, that there are gravitational effects that pop out that we can utilize for technology. Whoa.
And they're actively researching that and actively asking for collaboration on that from China. Same thing with cold fusion.
There's that lady that took off. That's what she was working on.
Yeah. Yeah.
Tell her story because it's a crazy one well i might not

know it as full as you do but there have been a number of instances within the united states where people have been trying to do uh work to manipulate gravity through large concentrations of energy electromagnetic electromagnetic effects things of that nature and very recently i forget the year. I don't know if you have that information,

Jamie, but

I think it was

2013 or around that timeframe where she had kind of a breakout paper, which she was claiming was utilizing some older techniques, and she was able to modify the mass of an object, essentially the force of gravity upon it. My understanding is that paper went out and then she essentially disappeared for a number

of months, like a year or two.

It's like a movie.

Yeah.

And last I heard that she was potentially either still missing or there was some evidence

that she might have gone to China.

I thought she died.

I thought she went to China and then come back and died. Did she come back and die? She died.
She did die. Yeah.
Or did she? Working in the vault somewhere. With masks now, they're just like maybe she was the tall Biden.
She died in the tall Biden. Remember that guy? She died in 21.
She got struck by a car in 2014, caused permanent brain damage, resulted in Alzheimer's, and then died in 21. Wow.
Was Hillary Clinton driving that car? I was waiting for him to be like, yes. Well, there's another tech, too.
Cold fusion, right? Another 50, 60 topic that was ridiculed and went away. Well, it's also now the talk of certain fusion communities.
Instead, they call it low energy nuclear reactions, right? Instead of having a large fission or fusion reaction where a lot of heat and radiation comes out, you can do it slowly and incrementally. And it releases a lot of energy, but it doesn't have accompanying radiation or super high levels of like random heat that comes out.
And that's now something that very serious scientists within the fusion community are studying. And another technology that the China representative at that conference was asking for collaboration on.
So are we investing in this? Is this work that we're doing in a dark lab? Because the open source community doesn't have the resources to be able to invest in this. Well, let me ask you this.
So if you were the government, let's just say they, you know, if you were them, and you wanted to work on some very, very advanced, if you had some knowledge that this stuff was possible, but you couldn't put it in the private sector because then it would get pilfered, it would get infiltrated by Chinese spies, which happens all the time, right? Wouldn't you hide it away? Wouldn't you squirrel it away somewhere? Like if you're doing the right thing, if you're being intelligent about it, wouldn't, if I wouldn't it essentially can't be public because it is in the interest of national security because it's such a big deal like if they develop a propulsion system that is completely reliant on gravity and they figure out like they're bending time just flying places instantaneously if that's the of space travel, like whoever gets there first, that's a big fucking deal. That's a really big deal.
And that can't be out there in the public where China could steal the data or Russia could steal the data or Iran could steal. You can't have anybody get a hold of this.
Well, here's the thing. If we're the sole superpower in the world, then I think it makes sense for us to hold that information back and develop it on our pace because we're not worried about competitors.
They're going to catch up to us and potentially leapfrog us.

But when we're operating in a world where we have near-peer or peer adversaries, such as China, that do have the ability to potentially work on the same technology, that's where the model breaks down a bit, right? Because if we're artificially slowing our progress in order to maintain the secrecy and someone is catching up to us, our only real solution at that point is to activate, you know, the millions of super smart and motivated people in our country to start pushing ourselves ahead, lest we get leapfrogged by countries that can do that through their own private investments, such as China. That's a very, very, very good point, because wouldn't it be awesome if we were the only superpower? And then we could just like slowly get into this stuff.
And maybe that's what's been happening for the past, you know, 20, 30 years after the Cold War. That's where that's where this whole Area 51 S4 shit comes into play.
Because you have to think that if this is happening this is around the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union, right? So this is like whew. We had a good 30 years, see what we could do.
We're relaxed. Have you ever seen Lazar talk about it? Yeah.
I met him once. What did you think? I mean it it's the type of story that, you know, you only have your own beliefs to go off of because, you know.
Because it's so crazy. It's so crazy.
And it's, you know, it's one of those stories where it's basically impossible to validate it. So, you know, like a lot of the stories I hear, you know, I often don't have all this evidence that I can work from.
So, you know, I throw it in the database in my head and I look for comparisons, right? Just like the gimbal video and how it maneuvers. Well, that's interesting.
That kind of lines up. It doesn't totally validate the story, but, you know, that's kind of how I approach this topic.
I don't, I'm not there to like immediately judge whether it's true or not true. It's just kind of additional information I can use.
Just like that photo I sent you, right? That is just some random lady in her backyard. But as it turns out, multiple

pilots and commercial airliners saw the same thing. So this is the one that the commercial

airline saw that was flying at about the same speed as a plane and then took off.

Yep. It was completely stationary and accelerated to the speed of a plane

and then went way faster than that. And what year was this again? I think it was 22.
Wow. So this lady got a picture of it.
That's actually a picture from the pilot in the cockpit. It looks like a plane.
Yeah. I have the one from the lady too.
It looks the same except from the ground. The same in it? But look like a plane to you they're not looking at playing Jimmy then it look like the front like the nose I mean I'm looking at Bigfoot through the woods right now it's one of those things like look you can see his face that looks like a multiple light sources off the window a cloud.
That lady's tripping. That lady's tripping.
The thing is like... Air traffic control didn't have it on their radar.
Unless you have a really good phone, like if you have a Samsung that gets like that 100x zoom, how much are you going to be able to see? Yeah. That's why, you know, with these cases in New Jersey, what's most compelling for me are these, like, they're not the images themselves, but it's these elected officials, you know, law enforcement officers and others that are, like, very flabbergasted at what they saw, right? They're not just like, well, yeah, there's something.
But, I mean, they're pissed off. They're very confident what they were seeing was not normal.
They're having a hard time putting words to it and having a proper photo. But as you can tell now, I think it's not easy to just put your iPhone up in the sky and grab a photo of something that's far away, right? They're not designed for that.
They're not designed for that. They don't look that clean.
And even, I mean, the best phones, if something's flying through the sky, you're going to get a shitty, blurry image of it. You need some very high-powered equipment to be able to zoom it.
And then you need image stabilization to be able to lock it into place. And there's so much AI on phones that interact with your photo before you even see it.
It's hard to even tell what you're looking at. Yeah.
Well, that was the thing with the Samsung phones. They got in trouble because they were taking photos of the moon.
It wasn't really a photo of the did you see how that got figured out no you can't slip things by the nerds right they're too fucking smart and so these guys were kind of suspicious of whether or not this thing was actually taking a photo and zooming in and getting a photo of the moon so they put a blurry photo of the moon on a screen uh and then stepped to the back end of the room

and zoomed in on the blurry photo that's on the screen, and it filled it in with high

resolution and showed you all the craters.

Oh, interesting.

Like, oh, it's bullshit.

Yeah.

And so they're trying to say it's AI, but you're not enhancing the image.

You're creating it.

There's no image there.

We know what the image is.

The image is a blurry bullshit, and you turn it into a clear photo of the moon. So this is shenanigans.
Well, let me tell you, I think, what needs to happen here to be able to better understand the situation. And I think this applies for New Jersey, but it also applies for the much broader kind of UAP conversation as well.
So I told you about discovery. I told you about disclosure.
You know, I think we can only motivate the government so much by just knocking on the door and asking for information. There needs to be a public, unclassified scientific investigation into this from the perspective of trying to attack it as a scientific anomaly, right, instead of trying to attack it from a request from the government to release new information.
So, I mean, I think this should be a national priority, frankly. We need to have very senior people within the White House that care about this topic, that are leading the charge, perhaps at the Office of Science and Technology Policy, somewhere at that level that can lead this conversation and start to employ different organizations in a public unclassified

manner, such as Department of Energy, such as the FBI and other reporting sources, so that we can

be able to gather this information, investigate it, and then form theories about how we can

detect it, whether that be through NEXRAD data in the United States, whether that be through

weather satellites, other large data sets that we can use to detect these disturbances, and work with the Department of Energy to be able to put forward scientific ideas and then utilize their compute resources to be able to process and churn through all this data and see what pops out on the other side. And I think that we can bring in organizations such as the National Science Foundation or National Science Council.
We can bring in – or yeah, National Science Foundation, excuse me. We can bring in offices such as the Office of Strategic Capital and start to actually support the public interest in this conversation by having people that now can access these large data sets and these large compute to be able to run experiments, to bring forward new data sets and technologies, and have this be like a true national effort at a high level.
I don't think that the current structure of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office within the Pentagon serving as a whole of government point is going to be effective, especially considering that they are technically charged with investigating potential crimes of the Pentagon itself, right? Conflict of interest there. So this needs to be raised to a much higher level.
And we have the resource in the United States to truly study this. And I think by doing that, we could then potentially confirm what is being discovered through this unclassified method with classified censors, but leave it so that it's repeatable and unclassified so that the scientific and academic community can see the results of that and work off of it.
Would there be an issue with you would have to provide amnesty to the people that could potentially have lied in these programs? So like if you've diverted funding you've you know not been Completely honest to Congress about where the funding is going and you've had some sort of a back engineering program or whatever they have Would there be like criminal? Liabilities where there be issues where a bunch of these people could get prosecuted potentially yeah So that would if I was them I would you know I'd keep hiding it but fuck that I want to go to jail but if you wanted to get full disclosure it would seem like the only way to effectively make it happen would be to give amnesty to the people that have committed these crimes so it become a become a real dilemma if they were actually crime there could be be another way to approach it. So one thing, especially at the last hearings we've heard, is that there needs to be stronger whistleblower protection laws, right? Maybe you've heard that.
I've updated my thinking on that. I've done a lot of research on whistleblower protection laws in the United States.
And it's actually quite interesting. You know, we've had whistleblowers from the executive branch whistleblow to the legislative branch in the past.
We had the church committee. We've had thousands of people that have come forward and shared classified information with Congress outside the bounds of the executive order that allows for the creation of classified information.
None of them have been ever prosecuted. Now, they may have faced ramifications such as a loss of security clearance.
They may have lost their job, right? Those are real risk. I don't want to downplay them.
But the way the system is currently set up, there's an executive order that allows for the creation of classified information. You have the National Security Act that was created in Congress and signed by the president.
And these are the two laws that essentially allow for the creation of that type of information. So when a whistleblower goes to Congress and shares that information, the Congress people are just as susceptible and vulnerable, perhaps, to having classified information that they're not privy to.
So they're in legal jeopardy in a sense. For there to be prosecutions in Congress or from the whistleblowers themselves, the Supreme Court would have to step in and adjudicate that ruling between that executive order and the National Security Act.
And that's never happened. They don't want to step in on that legislation.
and have had, you know, I don't know how many years, but decades and opportunities to do so,

but they choose not to. So we're in this kind of stalemate where by action, by inaction, whistleblowers have this unspoken protection, if you will, to come in and share that information, lest the Supreme Court step in and change their precedent for the past several decades.
So there's no reason that any of these potentially susceptible whistleblowers that do fear legal ramifications for those activities couldn't come in to Congress, set up a very quiet meeting, share what they have with these Congress people, and allow them to then run with that information clearly away from any personal identification from that whistleblower. That's the world we live in now, right? We don't have whistleblowers doing that.
And I think some of the messaging has been inaccurate claiming that we need to have stronger whistleblower protection laws because that's probably not going to happen. I don't think Trump wants stronger whistleblower protections.
I don't think he wants to enable people that would be calling out actions of the executive branch to Congress strengthened. That's not necessarily aligned with some of the activities that happened with Colonel Vindman and the Ukraine incident, where they essentially utilize those whistleblower laws to share information with Congress about what they perceived as wrongdoings.
So I don't see those laws getting stronger, but we're in this kind of weird false dichotomy right now where people are asking for them and not willing to come forward. But ultimately, I think we just need someone to step up to the plate and come forward to Congress with this information to be able to move the conversation forward on the disclosure side.
So what you're saying to me, what it sounds like is like you're almost like advocating for a complete restructuring of how the information gets disclosed. Instead of the way they're doing it now, like someone come in and sort it out.
Like you. Why don't you do it? I would if I was asked.
I bet you'd be asked. I hope you'll be asked, I should say, because I think you're uniquely qualified and obviously like very invested in this.
Like you wouldn't want someone who's not invested in this leading this. This is a super complicated, nuanced rabbit hole that you have to go down and you have to like be balancing out all the possibilities in your head at the same time while you're trying to get this information out and whatever you guys experienced whatever those things were um if that isn't ours we should probably know yeah we should probably know and i don't know what it is i don't know if it is ours i don't i mean i i get that if it is you can't tell me i get that but if it's not What's going on? What do you think it is like if you had a guess? Some of it's got to be ours right in like the broader conversation or specifically New Jersey well broader conversation It's clear to me based off of all my research and connections and conversations a couple things things.
One, people are absolutely seeing things that seem to be exhibiting capabilities beyond the state of the art. Like boom, end of conversation right there.
Like this one that you sent me. I mean, that's an interesting one.
Yeah, I mean, multiple witnesses seeing capabilities of craft operating in flight regimes that we don't have the technology to do. So that's step one.
Step two is I've been a lot like a blind man touching an elephant. You know, I don't know necessarily it's an elephant yet, but I'm feeling a tail, feeling a trunk, feeling the foot.
And what that elephant represents is the government's classified work on this topic, right? I've butted up against it through people that have been actively engaged in programs that are investigating this in ways that are not public. So I know that there is something there behind the scenes.
I don't know how deep it goes. I don't know specifically the type of, like, the total amount of work that's being done.
But it's very clear to me there are boundaries that I've touched, and others have touched, that represent that work. So it would make sense, it would be a line that the government would be very interested in this technology.
And I think it's, you know, I think it's time that we've put the proper protocols and processes in place so that the public can discover this information. We have the technology, Joe.
like this it's not that we don't have the technology I mean I'm personally working on space situational awareness centers that we can put in space in order to maintain custody of these objects now if no one has ever gone full disclosure no president how much do you think they tell them and what if anything could you even imagine would be a valid reason for not telling people I think that there was probably a presidential order at some point in the past that is likely still in effect and you know unless another president is fully read in and countermands that order, then it's business as usual. And perhaps that's one of the reasons they don't tell presidents a lot of information on this is because they want to maintain the effect of authority, keep it in play so that another president doesn't countermand it.
Yeah, because none of them spill the beans. None of them.
None of them feel obligated to tell the American public. You know, I think I can see both ways, though.
That's the problem. I can see it from a point of a national security thing.
If they're back engineering these things and trying to, if there's a race, it's essentially no different than if we engineered ourself. Like at the end, someone's making it.
And we might have integrated some of these capabilities into some of our technology that we might look out the window and see, right? But deep in the bowels of the system, you know, there might be capabilities that were discovered or motivated through the investigation of these objects, right? So I could see why they're, I agree with you a hundred percent right and I don't believe that 100% of the information should come out you know I mean I've worked in secured information I've worked in the military I understand the needs for these capabilities but the core information that we're not alone in the universe potentially there's no government on earth that has a right to hold that information. Agreed.
I think everybody agrees to that. There's no reason why they should.
That's human information. And it's, if we're really, really, if we're really confronted by an absolute fact that we're not alone, it changes everything.
We kind of know it, but we're not sure and we haven't seen it. And if you have seen it, you don't know what you saw.
And what is that? Think about how that would motivate us as a populace, right? To have this care on a stick out to say, here's how we access the rest of the galaxy. Yeah.
Right? Imagine what that would do to our technological innovation. How many millions of kids right now would go to school in order to be engineers and scientists to be able to work on this? Oh, yeah.
It would completely change the world. Maybe we'd have, you know, less Facebook apps and things of that nature and AI wrappers.
But we would be working on deep, important technology that's going to unlock the rest of the universe to us. Or would give in to our alien overlords because they're coming and they're going to be super powerful and every civilization that we've ever encountered that was primitive always had a terrible go of it once we showed up well maybe we'd be better prepared well i i would hope they wouldn't be us that they would be past what look human beings today as you know especially if you follow like stephen pinker's work where you look at crime and violence throughout history Human beings today live in the safest environment that's ever existed for people.
Look relatively overall despite all of our problems. It's trending in a way of more peace.
But if you think about no violence at all, none ever, just like a complete shut off of everything. That's what you would have to be if you were a civilization that's eclipsing all the problems that we have here on earth, that's bypassing all the war, all the bullshit, the destroying the environment, the inequality and the allocation of resources and the control of the populace like if just that's all out the window with this super super sophisticated society i think that is that would should motivate us like probably more than anything to get our shit together to realize like this is possible like this is this is the trajectory that these intelligent species go through on their road to evolution their their road to enlightenment.
And they bypass this terrible stage that we're at right now where we're worried that these drones are searching for nuclear bombs because someone might decide to do some sort of a terrorist thing because there's wars going on over the world. If we could just know that you can get past that.
It's like we're in a phase where our technological development is outpacing our social and moral development. Or in our biological development.
Just like you can only think of a number of so many things. You can't think of all the stars.
I don't think our biology can keep up with the input of all this technology. I think we're getting numb.
We're getting weirded, weirdly numb to it, you know? And I think it's just so, it's so inescapable in today's society that if you want to be integrated into today's society, you have to have one of those goddamn phones. You have to be connected.
Like we're, we're moving in this very particular direction. And it seems like if we get through this chaos, what these things that we're visiting, that are visiting us, all of the things that people describe of telekinetic communication, telepathic communication, the ability to explain things to them in a way that like clarifies what they're here for and why they're here.

That's probably what we would do. It sounds exactly like what we would do if we could get past all the problems of being a human being in 2024 and all the violence and chaos and all the lying and propaganda.
If we got past that, that's what we'd become. We become some star-faring creature that's like completely enlightened and shows up and is just checking on the apes to make sure they don't blow themselves up.
It must be a hell of a time to come watch us, right? Right. And if – think about like technology and technology evolution is always so much faster than biological evolution.
Like how far ahead are they? You know, if they're a million years, what does that even look like? Like, what does that look like? Do you hit a wall? Like, do they just, quote unquote, know everything, right? Right. Or do, and then maybe that's what allows their moral compass and their biology to catch up? Or maybe they're the robot custodians of the God creating intelligent beings.
And that all they're doing is sent for AI. AI created them and sent them out into the universe so that when the apes get to the point where they start making nuclear weapons and bombs and Reactors and cold fusion and gravity there you like just make sure they get through this Okay, boom and then whatever the fuck quantum computing connected to AI becomes That's what it's like.
We're farming that that something i thought about you know when talk about biological creatures and in these crafts yeah you know it could be that those are not things that traveled here from far away and are just kind of hanging out right like that might have just been all the time they might have created these objects even the biological substrates you will, here using local materials and put them together because perhaps biological creatures are more appropriate for the type of interactions they need to do instead of a fixed machine. Right.
Oh, wow. Yeah, that completely makes sense.
Right. Like if you can create life, which they're very close to being able to create fake artificial life, like in like single cell forms.
And haven't they created like, aren't they like creating like artificial embryos? I believe they have started like animal embryos. And that's just from scratch.
I mean, they could beam over, you know, DNA sequences and fabricate them here. Yeah, but that seems like totally doable.
And that would make sense so they could breathe our air, too. You just engineer it so that whatever this creature is, it does your bidding.
And just they're the custodians. They just hang around.
They're not even like advanced aliens. Synthetic human embryos created in groundbreaking advance.
This is so crazy.

These are human. I didn't think they were human.
Synthetic human embryos using stem cells in a groundbreaking advance that sidesteps the need for eggs or sperm. Oh, it's over.
We're fucked, yes. We're fucked.
We're so fucked. I'm so anxious.
It's so scary, man. It's so scary.
So if we can do that now, something that's a million years more advanced, it would just like probably send some ball of energy down. That energy would create a spaceship and the beings inside of it.
And like they're fucking sending someone a picture through a cell phone. It would be that simple.
Yeah. And that's probably, I mean, it's probably what it is.
They're probably the custodians. You know, we think of them as like advanced alien beings.
It's probably not real. Probably advanced alien beings is AI.
And it's the most advanced because it just goes from nothing to God. And maybe it needs custodians.
The only thing that would change my mind on that is if they truly have some kind of faster and light travel that allowed them to transport you know physical objects from extreme distances to nearby because then the cost of sending that information is irrelevant because they can just send things over so I could see both sides of it but it's something interesting to think about imagine the science and technology fields that a full understanding of this conversation would open up i mean it would open up fields of knowledge that we can only imagine right now we only see in sci-fi movies right even if we don't understand how they're doing it if proven to be true everybody has to stop and go okay what's going on here like how is that thing moving that quickly like where is it coming from how did it come from 2 000 light years away like how is it even possible and then they have to figure it out and how i don't know i mean maybe what what is your take on the crashes because that to me is always like god if you're so advanced you can come here from another galaxy why you keep crashing like what is it and then there's i'm sure you're aware of diana pasolka her stuff. They call them donations.
Like the people that research these things, whether or not that's even real. But the people that, I haven't seen it.
The people that say they go there and find these fragments on the ground, they refer to it as donations. One thing I like to think about is, you know, their planet, you know, we're making a lot of assumptions here, but their planet might be designed a different way, right? Like their atmosphere might have significantly less oxygen.
It could be much thicker. And so they might have had, they might have bypassed this whole period where they had rocket propulsions and gas shooting out the back.
And so they, they might not have taken them longer to get the space, but maybe they did so with a much more developed technology. So then they apply that technology, they come over here, and now they're in a regime that perhaps they were unexpecting.
There's gravity disturbances, there's more oxygen in the air, there's different things that perhaps they either weren't expecting or just was different than their home environment. And then, oh, by the way, there's these stupid apes that are shining stuff at us that are launching nuclear weapons and actually knocking us out of the sky.
There's electromagnetic interference. So I could see a logic there that shows that we make the assumption that if they're here, they're gods, right? They can can do anything maybe that's not the right way to think about it well also maybe think about the sheer numbers so if we think that these things are real so let's imagine they're actually coming from another planet so if they are coming from another planet and they're capable of coming here that means other planets are capable of sustaining intelligent life that can be starfarers.

So if that's possible here and there, it's probably all over the place.

So if it's all over the place, who knows how many numbers of things you're dealing with and how far advanced they are.

And like you said, like what technology did they develop?

We think – we always think technology is like completely linear. And we think that like what we did and the way we did is the only way it can be done but the best evidence that's not true is egypt the best evidence that that's not true exists you can go touch it with your hand you can see photographs of it online we don't know what the fuck they did and whatever they did was super advanced for 4 500 years We don't know what machines they used.
We don't know how they cut it. We don't know how they measured it.
We don't know shit how they figured out to put it north, south, east, and west almost perfectly. No one knows.
No one understands how they got the stones there. It's all speculation and guesswork.
But whatever it is, it's insanely impressive and a different sort of way of implementing human ingenuity and engineering and thought into construction. It's very different than anything we've done.
So it's a clear path. Like they had an enormous amount of resources in that area and they had sustained a civilization there for thousands and thousands of years to the point there.
They had developed methods and technologies that we don't understand today because they're not here anymore. I love the work that Graham Hancock has been doing.
And I see it as almost like a parallel conversation than the one we're having. I mean, there's something here.
A lot of people can go out and look at it. I mean, sure, I've never been to the pyramids, but, you know, the information is there if you're willing to go look at it.
And there's this massive stigma within the academic community to say, no, no, that's not right, right? Because they're in this zero-sum game. They're all trying to win the next, you know, contract and grant, and they just want to stay right within the line of what's acceptable.
And he's bringing forward very interesting points about a time period that I think we all understand now is a lot less understood than we thought. There's also parallel civilizations that coexisted with European civilizations that are very similar to what we know about in history that were like the Mayans, for instance, like what the fuck was going on in Mexico? Like how come, because we know when that, like, when Cortez visited.
Was it Cortez or Cabeza de Vaca? Who visited the Mayans and wrote about it? It might have been Cabeza de Vaca. I think it's in that book, A Strange New Land.
But when they first encountered these people, before they gave them diseases, like, they had this insane civilization with, like, gold headdresses and ornate dressing like and everybody's like what is this like there's insane stone structures and the human sacrifice like the fuck are you guys doing here like this is a totally completely different type of civilization while in europe they're wearing fucking wigs and they're trotting around and like all coexisting so we know that human beings can go in very different directions in terms of the way their society develops and the technologies they implement why wouldn't we think that that would be the case with everything in the known universe like everything in the known universe there's probably an infinite number of paths that intelligent creatures can go to creating technology. And like you were saying, some of them might take like way longer than our path of, you know, implementing combustion engines and electronics.
And they might be using frequencies. They might be using some sort of different way of generating energy that we don't understand.
Maybe their planet has super strong electromagnetic fields, right? And so they can leverage that in a way we can't. Well, the thing Lazar was talking about was that this planet had a stable version of this element 115.
But I think, I mean, even what does that even mean? What is element 115? I mean, if there's 114, element 115 is whatever the fuck you find next, right? don't know what it is like it and it was all theoretical until they the large hadron collider they developed a version of it for you know a millisecond so they know that it's a real thing there's he's saying they have a stable version like well if you live in a completely different solar system and a completely different planet with completely different there's planets out there that are made entirely of diamonds yeah did you see that one yeah yeah about a giant diamond in the sky get a picture of that please look like yeah what the fuck like i think that there's probably an infinite number of ways intelligent life evolves and some of it probably doesn't look anything like us like octopi like octopuses they have no need because they're in the ocean and there's no houses in the ocean. So they have no need to build things.
But they're super smart, man. They open up jars.
They figure out a way to get out of a fish tank, walk across the floor, climb into the next fish tank, kill a fish, eat it. Climb back and go back in their tank.
That's why I don't own a squid or an octopus. Because if I saw that in the middle of the night, it would freak me the fuck out.
They're really smart, man. They're weirdly smart, and we don't even know why or how.
They have eyes that separated. Whatever an eye was developed, an eye was developed for them and an eye was developed for us.
We branched off from evolutionary chain like who knows how many hundreds of millions of years ago. I learned a pretty interesting little tidbit here.
You know, I mean, the octopus apparently his DNA is not like anything else on this planet. But apparently the Hawaiians have an ancient tradition that octopus basically came from the sky.
Isn't that interesting? That is interesting. But, you know, with panspermia, they do think that it's possible that planets, when they get hit by asteroids, a big chunk of it can fly off and the DNA from that rock can enter into this new environment.
And with some things like spores, spores survive in a vacuum. That's one of the thoughts about psilocybin mushrooms that perhaps they were, they arrived here from somewhere else on a rock, which is, it's a real possibility.
Like that's where most of the iridium that they find when they have those big, when they do those big digs and they find that layer of iridium that's near where there's an asteroid impact. That's all just shit that came from space.
Yeah. I mean, if you look back at like the evolution of humans to monkeys to fish and then multicellular organisms and the introduction of the mitochondria, smaller, simple, single-celled organisms, there's a very linear path of evolution.
And very early on, there's a massive jump where we went from extremely simple bits and pieces to essentially this big jump in complexity for these small systems. And there's a theory out there that that jump occurred due to seeding from elsewhere, Right.
That perhaps the whole path is linear, and it occurred over time, perhaps, and they think the time period is like several billion years, right, for the evolution from these components to get to essentially a single-celled organism. that these components evolved independently in space, perhaps feeding off a gamma radiation or other gamma energy or other energies that are out in space.
And so that evolutionary process did take billions of years. It just didn't occur on a particular planet.
And then over time, as meteorites hit the Earth, then we see this uptake in complexity because of the arrival and then the further evolution of the biological, you know, chain that led to us. And, you know, it's pretty interesting, you know, kind of tied to that theory is that, you know, the Big Bang happened and things, you know, gradually cooled down.
I mean, there was a point where, and I think the number is like 500,000 years, where the universe was essentially room temperature, right? Like everywhere in the

universe had like a distribution of temperature that was equivalent to what we're sitting in right

now before it continued to cool off and get weird. So there could have been these opportunities

in the universal process that allowed for the development of lifelike components that eventually

went out to seed the universe, which would be a really interesting concept because it would lead us to believe that this probably happened in multiple places and not just here. That is a fascinating idea that it's like seeds.
And I mean, that's the function that these asteroids have when that's what happens when they land and they spread whatever's on them. You could imagine, like, that's the function of asteroids

slamming into planets, knocking chunks off

and flying that stuff into space.

That's why we have water here, you know?

I mean, we didn't just organically, like,

create water on this planet.

It came from asteroids and other debris.

It's a comet, right?

Like comets, yeah.

A lot of comets are just made out of just ice, right?

Yeah.

Which is fucking nuts.

There's a chunk of ice bigger than Manhattan flying through the sky. I imagine.
Or a diamond. It leaves it, right? And leaving trails.
And some of them, they can mine. Like, that's going to be really fascinating once they figure out how to do that.
Land on an asteroid and mine it. Yeah.
Trillion dollar industry. That was a Bruce Willis movie, right? Wasn't it? Well, I think they're trying to blow one up.
I think it was. It was a Bruce Willis movie right wasn't it well I think they're trying to blow one up I think it was it was a Bruce had miners there Armageddon yeah all right they weren't mining right they trained miners how to be astronaut because that was clearly the easiest choice instead of trading astronauts to mine well this we were getting to that the James Webb telescope secret secret squirrel meeting did you find anything on that nothing I mean I don't know what specifically I was supposed to be looking for it okay let's try let's try it let's say James Webb telescope top secret meeting urgent discovery I've had everything but I have give me the bullshit getting into the stuff that's shady.
There was a congressman that had a classified meeting about the James Webb. It's like they have many discoveries.
I don't know. Oh, no, no, no.
Not discovery. Top secret.
Classified. Classified meeting discovery.
Come on, Jamie. Indulge me.
You know, we don't usually type, put classified stuff out there. Yeah, do it.
Put it out there. NASA denies existence of classified briefings on James.
This was two months ago. Oh, so they definitely happened.
Yeah. It definitely happened if they denied it.
I mean, I don't. It's probably bullshit.
Black fault. It's probably a fun thing.
NASA denies it. In recent weeks, rumors spread rapidly on social media.
I think I was involved in that. Suggesting that NASA's James Webb telescope had made an extraordinary discovery, potentially alien life, and the members of Congress had been briefed about it.
The rumors intensified after U.S. Representative Andre Carson, who had previously chaired a congressional hearing on identified aerial phenomena, declined to answer a question about classified briefings when asked by, I don't know who that is, run by journalist Matt Lasso on X.
Excuse me, Laszlo on X. He's been doing good work on the UAP topic.
Matt Laszlo? Yeah. Shout out to Matt.
Speculation prompted a Freedom of Information Act request filled by the Black Ball on September 22nd, 2024, seeking any records classified or unclassified about James Webb Space Telescope briefings provided to Congress, particularly related to the telescope's findings. The request aimed to clarify whether any congressional briefings had been held about significant discoveries made by the telescope, which has been in operation since 2021.

So the response was a copy of records, which includes videos, photos, electronic or otherwise, of all briefings about James Webb's telescope and program made for Congress. I ask that you include all classified and unclassified briefings on the James Webb Telescope program or briefings on findings made by that program.
It says those searches located no records responsive to your request. Okay.
Neither confirm nor deny. I mean, if I was hiding the fact we're going to get hit by an asteroid, that's how I would do it.
I wouldn't tell people. I wouldn't respond to this.
What freedom of information? What are you going to put me in jail? We're going to be dead in 16 months. There's a planet heading our way.
Planets get hit by other planets sometimes. Or maybe they detected signs of life around an exoplanet.
That's the fun one. The fun one is signs of life.
The fun one is an actual spaceship. The fun one is something that they can't explain that changes everything that we hold dear and believe to be true, whatever that means.
You know, we've gone down the rabbit hole with some fun speculative conversation about what's out in space, but I just want to make the point that, like, this is still a solvable problem here on planet Earth, right? Like, we can't let, like, the fun speculation of what's going on out in the universe stop these kind of stodgy academics and others to say, well, this is not relevant to me. This

is not practical. There's nothing here, right? Like we need an intense focus on this within our government at the highest levels, not just within an organization with the Pentagon.
And we need to engage our scientific and academic community and remove the stigma at the highest levels. I'm hoping Trump will do that.
You think the bottleneck has been the security clearance of it all or the bottleneck has been the lack of transparency? Like if people just knew, that would be the end of it. I think so.
I think that would absolutely. And, of course, by people knowing they're going to want to have some evidence that they can use to do research on.
But even if the president just came out the other day or, you know, in the next week or in a few months and said, we don't know what they are. We have moderate to high confidence that they don't originate through any known adversary or nation on earth.
Help us figure this out. But Biden and Harris have been like the last managers of Blockbuster Video.
You know what I mean? They knew the fucking gig was up. Like, don't even show up.
It's over. The building's going under.
The lease is done in two weeks. Fuck this.
They're not even at work. I understand it's a policy of the Biden administration to downplay this topic at the highest levels.
You understand that this is like a mandate? If this is something... I don't know if I want to use the word mandate, but their policy...
This is their instructions? Yeah. Huh.
So I think with the folks that are friendly to this topic coming in with the Trump administration open up a very key opportunity window for us to move this conversation forward.

When you look at it from their perspective, what would rationalize trying to downplay this?

Like, if you look at it from their perspective, like, what could possibly be the case where they think it would be good to propagandize or sway people in that direction? To stop our adversaries being aware of the reality situation and from investing into it and Proceeding past and because again, we're artificially constraining ourselves, right because we're trying to keep it a secret Right. So now that game is changing, right? That game is changing because it you know It appears that China is making investments and has a large amount of interest in this topic.
And we're at a point now where if we continue to do that, we're going to simply fall behind. And I think there's been this delay within the Biden administration to just kind of ignore that problem for whatever problem is more relevant is prime or you know worried about his son and the legal issues he's in than this this massive issue I don't think he's running anything like I really do think he's the last manager of Blockbuster right now that's what I think I just I don't she's not even showing up for it I never see her anywhere anymore anymore.
It's unfortunate. They checked out.
It's over.

But the problem with that is, okay, then who? Who's running it? And why are you holding back that stuff? Whoever's been running it, I think. Yeah.
So I think this is, I mean, can you imagine how President Trump would be remembered across history if he moved this conversation forward? yeah we we just knew what they know. Just you don't have to tell us what it's possible, what it can do, what you've engineered from it.
Tell us something's going on. What is that thing? What's that thing that's going on? Is that thing ours? If it is, that that's fucking crazy you guys have been holding back some insane shit

And if it's not ours, then we need to know and I think that that would change the human conversation I mean it would be how I mean Ronald Reagan talked about that in the United Nations speech in like was it the 1980s? You remember that speech well, I don't remember learning about it he talked about how united we would all be if the threat of an alien invasion was happening earth how quickly we'd put aside our differences well that's why we have the red phone with Russia right to be able to is it really red yeah used to be I'm sure it's you know a text message now but I wonder if they even have a phone anymore well they do and they do with China as now, although it's less public. But is it like a phone phone? Like, hello? I also don't know the structure of it.
It used to be, but it was there in order to... Let's hear this.
All the members of humanity, perhaps we need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this common bound. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world.
And yet I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war? Two centuries ago in a hall much smaller than this one, in Philadelphia, Americans met to draft... Hell of a speech.
of a speech yeah maybe it's time for another one yeah if they know tell us it'd be good be good if you let us know and if we did have disclosure like what can you imagine let's imagine that you get into this position and it's your job to get this information out to the public. What kind of resistance do you think you're going to face? Because it seems like if there's been deals that have been done with defense contractors and like that's how you kind of have to have work on it.
Right. Like who else is gonna know what to do like you kind of have to get contractors on this thing You're gonna have to get the best and the brightest you got a fucking UFO.
I figure this out We haven't had support from the top in the past right so Ryan in such a position You would have to have me working closely with White House, and you would have to have the White House's buy-in on this.

I think that's the only way.

And from the top of the executive branch, you use that position of influence. You pass additional presidential memorandums and executive orders that countermand previous memorandums that may have existed in the past in order to legally compel these organizations from the chief executive to be able to move the conversation forward, to require them to bring this information out, to require them to collaborate.
And, you know, it doesn't have to be a one-person job. You bring in some of the brightest people in our country in order to evaluate this data, come to a conclusion, and then share those conclusions with the American people okay let's imagine you get this position and you go through this search and you find out that this is all all our technology and that we can't allow China or Russia to know that we're capable of using these kind of technologies that are unheard of right now so we have have to keep it as a national security secret.
What do you do about something like that? I mean, ultimately, if the answer is that there is nothing unusual going on here, then we have to respect that, right? But it is very unusual. If you've got these things that are moving the way these things are moving, and they're ours.
Yeah, and I don't think that's the case here, you know, for all the reasons that we've discussed today. So, you know, ultimately, it's about finding the truth, right? It's not about finding your way to a conclusion that you already support.
Okay. I wonder what the world would be like if it was fully accepted, if disclosure was fully accepted.
I wonder what the world would be like if like Trump gets into office Trump has a press conference he brings you up you explain what we know this is over the last 16 months our team has discovered this that and that we've personally investigated this that and the other where's the where are the crashed ones okay where the fuck are you guys hiding those? Because if that's real, that's the end.

All you have to do is bring the president to the crash site,

and you bring him into the warehouse, and you show him this thing,

and you walk around it, and you go, what the fuck is this?

What the fuck is this?

That would be the end.

All you'd have to do is just get a camera crew, go with them,

Trump walking around a spaceship. Okay, we've been visited now we know by whatever by whoever maybe it's not even a visitor maybe it's always been here maybe it lives in the ocean maybe it's been monitoring us from there and its sole purpose is like i said before custodian to make sure we don't blow But either way, we should probably know that.
We should probably know there's fucking bases in the ocean. Because a lot of them, they've seen their transmedium.
They move through the air and then they go into the water and they don't even make a splash. It's like, okay, what is that? We would have for the first time, I think, a clear direction of where we need to go as a society.
It would revamp our academic processes, our fields of study, our beliefs in religious structures. I don't think they would nullify it.
I think they would probably amplify it. And it would, I think, have the equivalent impact of a positive nuclear bomb on our economy.
We would have certainty in what direction to invest in and what technologies to pursue. And I think that by having that direction, that would, again, nuclear bomb level increase in capabilities where we would be able to, you know, be working on propulsion and energy systems and material systems that would advance us well beyond where we are today.
It would leapfrog us. And if we sit on our hands, we don't do that, we're going to find our adversaries in a position to do that instead, which would completely rewrite the geopolitical environment.
If we reach technological proficiency in all this AI stuff and quantum, if we reach this first, then what do you think that looks like? I think, well, we already are in AI to some degree, but I don't think it's a technology you can necessarily contain to one country. I mean, China's already has their own AI out there.
So I think it's going to be somewhat business as usual, at least on the AI side. Quantum computing, a little bit different.
The technology investment is much higher, but still, if China can come in and potentially steal that technology and replicate it, then we're just in another level of arms race at that point. But if we have the ability to invest in deep technologies that we aware have an endpoint in reality, instead of having to guess the strategic value of something, it's going to allow us to focus our resources in a way that we haven't had the opportunity to do in this country.
That's a great rose-colored glasses view of it. That sounds really good.
It does. When you say it that way, I'm like, wow, it's a very positive outlook.
I hope you're right. What do you think? I don't know.
I definitely don't know. I go back and forth a lot.
I go back and forth as to whether or not these are visitors or whether or not they're interdimensional and they're always here. I go back and forth whether or not they're ours.
I think some of them are ours probably. I go back and to lazar's talk about how they they had been doing flights with these things they'd figured out how

to at least get them off the ground and move them around the sky and have them land again if that was going on if that's real that was going on 1989 who knows who knows what the fuck we have right now, if that's real. But if we are being visited, it's a complete revamping of our position in the universe.
If we do realize we're part of a community of intelligent life that's in the universe and that it just takes a while for you to be technologically sophisticated enough where you can communicate or travel to these places, But it eventually happens. And then we just realize, like, the lights come on.
There's, like, a billion eyes out there staring back at us like, whoa. We're all connected in this thing.
I think it would give us a lot of reason to collaborate. It would give us a lot of reason to collaborate.
And like Ronald Reagan was saying, it would force us to recognize that we really are one thing here on planet Earth. It's us together.
We're not different countries. It's fucking – it's crazy.
We're all just – of course there's different countries, but we're just human beings. We should all just be like the same thing.
We don't need to fight. There's no reason for any of this stuff.
All this shit can be worked out. And in the future, it should be.
I just think technology has got to kind of like help us along in that direction that's probably exactly what's happening but it's pretty strange that in the meanwhile like in the what we're facing today with these superpowers duking it out and trying to develop technological and military dominance this would be in the movie the exact time that alien life would start showing up if you're gonna have a movie like where the aliens come to make sure we don't kill ourselves now would be arrival time yeah now would be the time it's like we're all sitting in Plato's cave duking it out arguing about what's on the wall right when a few people are creeping upstairs realizing that we have a lot bigger things to worry about Yeah, yeah, we have a lot bigger things to worry about and a lot bigger things to look forward to yeah, and I think The only way we're gonna know What the territory is is if we get a legitimate map I think some people have a legitimate map of what we're looking at and some people don't and that's That's where and I agree that's kind of fucked up. Yeah.
And it's not their position. You shouldn't be able to.
Well, people like yourself bringing attention to this topic, Joe, is huge. You know, I mean, we have, I think the momentum that we've seen over the past three, four, five, eight years since I've been doing this is really changing the conversation.
I speak with people every single day. I work this every single day, Joe, seven days a week.
And the amount of people that are changing their tune and coming around to this conversation at all levels of engineering, scientific background, financial resources, is absolutely huge. And I think the pressure is going to continue to build.
And I think that the opportunity we have here with the new administration is unprecedented. And I think we need to do everything we can do to leverage that to move the conversation to a point of no return.
I think it's possible to do. I really do.
And I think that's what the general public wants at this point. We're doing it.
I think people are really tired of not knowing. Like, if it's all bullshit, tell me it's bullshit.
me how you know, it's bullshit. If it's all real Fuck you for hiding it for so long.
I even hide this for so long How do you think this if you had a guess how do you think this drone thing gets resolved? I mean they can't just stay in the sky I have this kind of pit in my stomach that this will probably stop in like a week or two and then we won't learn anything new. Now I don't know if that's how it's going to play out but that would be consistent with what happened in past years.
Do you think it's possible that they're just testing to see how people would react to drones flying around in space?

Due to the lack of coordination in government on this topic, I would assume if that's what they were doing, they would have had a better plan to communicate. But why would they communicate with state and local authorities if they could do it in a way where they get clearance to do it and,'s a need-to-know thing and they just have these things fly around just to gauge how the public's perception would be? Even within the federal government, there seems to be confusion, right? So I'm not even referring to local government and law enforcement.
I'm talking about government agencies that are actively investigating this seem to be out of the loop as well. So if they are trying to trick us, when I mean us, I mean like basically everyone, you know, even within the government, even what people would need to know.
I mean, I just, it's so hard for me to rationalize that they would be willing to manipulate 95% of the government in order to run some kind of experiment or social test with unclear value at the end of that chain, right? Like, what exactly are they preparing us for? Is it a broader integration of UAP knowledge into our conversation? That's the only thing I could think that would require such secrecy. Well, do we have drones that are capable of doing exactly what these things are doing? I think so.
I mean, for the vast majority of cases that I've seen on social media and whatnot, I think so. So is this domestic or these Chinese drones, like the top-of-the-line drones that can do what these things are doing? Are we making those here? I would have to make the assumption that the government with the defense community has built various drones that are capable of doing similar things for deployment overseas.
All right. So again, there's not one video, I know we've looked a little bit, for one that exhibits capabilities that gives us a high level of confidence that they're completely unusual.
But we're not seeing that necessarily, so I can't jump to that conclusion yet based off of the information that's being presented. But the overall activities of all these objects and the historical consistency with other sightings in this part of the country lend me to still consider that there's anomalous activity that's going on in this area.
Anomalous in terms of what we know we're capable of? Yes. Like, what is an example of anomalous that exceeds our capabilities? Increased signal management, right? Not being able to be detected.
We have very sophisticated radar systems on the eastern seaboard, including in New Jersey. So to have objects that are able to essentially evade those detection mechanisms and appear mysterious and disappear over the ocean or come from the ocean in a way that's untrackable, it should not be possible.
That's why we have these billion-dollar systems. So have we developed these capabilities? Not just radar, but infrared, being able to block infrared, and even being able to detect objects in their proximity and even turn their lights off, right? And of course, these aren't magical technologies.
We can probably imagine a path there, but it creates a lot of uncertainty about the origin of these objects and their intent, right? Are we trying to evade our own capabilities and cause a mass panic over our own country? Is this a forward adversary that has had breakthroughs in these capabilities? Not just breakthroughs in these capabilities, but Iran and China and Russia, for them to be operating off the eastern seaboard, it's not a small task, right, to, like, load up a ship, have it be stealthy, and then launch all these drones without a point of origin. That's not a trivial problem for them, right? We're the only countries in the world that has a true global navy, and it would even be difficult for us to do.

Civilian drones.

I mean, are there civilians operating these?

Hundreds of drones without detection, without flaw, without failure, without crashing? Very, very strange that that would be the case as well. So, again, I look at all these different options and I can see a rationale to say, okay, some of these are not exhibiting capabilities that make me think it came from somewhere else necessarily.
But all these kind of facts lined up one after another makes it really anomalous and quite the mystery still. But again, I think we can figure this out, Joe.
Like we can get the proper technology there. We can go figure this out.
And if the government's not going to do it, I will. How are you going to do it, though, like, without the government? Like, what would you do? Like, right now? Let's say Trump never calls you.
You got to go figure it out. What are you going to do? I'm going to take RF receivers from counter drone technologies.
I'm going to go out into these hotspots. We're going to be looking for the signals that they may be emitting.
And then using mobile platforms, we'll be there to be able to detect the strength of the signals, and we'll essentially follow them, see where they go. And that might include operating an aircraft.
That might include a ship offshore that we can hand off this information to so they can track them when they go over the water. It's just a resource problem.
It's not a technology problem. So if there is a ship that's launching them off the coast, what kind of technological capabilities would that ship have to have to be there undetected where they don't know where these things are coming from? How far away would it have to be where that's even feasible? There's a couple paths.
One of them, it would have to be perhaps like a submarine launched ship, right? And we have very good detection underwater, especially off our coast. How many drones could you fit on a submarine? Well, that's the thing, right? So especially car-sized drones, probably not too many.
So we're talking about perhaps a different class of submarine or multiple submarines. They probably don't have the ability to recover these objects.

Would it have to be a submarine or could it be a giant ship?

I don't think we could have a giant ship off our coast without the Navy or other DOD assets knowing it's there.

So satellites and everything else.

If these things are launching from the water, they must be launching from something that was under the water.

That would be my hypothesis. But there's

no ship that's been sighted, right?

Correct. What if there's a

fucking civilization in the water?

It sounds so stupid, but

did you ever see that one video where they showed

this thing? It was an underwater camera.

I think it was focused on

an oil rig, and you see something

flying through the background. Yep, I did see that.
Something like knots Yeah, I have reports from submarine operators of very fast objects under the water Yeah What the fuck? usos underwater or unidentified submerged object I Mean mean, our planet is mostly covered in water.

Our sensing underwater is not as good as in the air.

There's less traffic under there.

It would be a logical place to set up shop.

Yeah.

I mean, and how much of the ocean has actually been discovered or explored, rather?

It's like 10% or something crazy.

Yeah, pretty small.

And there's insane deep spots that something could just go and hang out. Or move around, stay mobile.
Yeah. Well, listen, I hope you get a phone call.
I hope you get a phone call and somebody listens to this and says, that sounds like it would be a good thing for everybody if we knew what the hell was going on. If it's possible to talk about.
But again, without you out there telling your story and guys like Commander David Fravor and all these different people that have had these experiences and encountered things and are aware of it and know that it's a real issue, without real credible voices like yourself, this conversation falls into the hands of silly people like me you know like like if i if i'm interested in ufos i was interested in bigfoot for a long time you know what i mean i i some of it is just fun for me but when guys like you come out and talk about it and when you know the new york times writes that article in 2017 and you get the gimbal video and the go fast video, all of a sudden it's like, OK, this is a phenomenon. This is a real thing.
What is it? And why don't we know? And why aren't we being told what we do know? They don't deny it anymore. I mean, within government, when they communicate, it's clear from the Pentagon to the executive branch to legislative branch that, yes, there are objects.
We don't know what they are. And they seem to be exhibiting capabilities beyond the state of the art.
I mean, that's we're at a point in the conversation where that seems to be pretty widely accepted at this point. How hard would it be for people to accept that it's coming from an underwater civilization that's popping out to check on us? That might be harder than the whole alien theory.
Right. It would be almost crazier.
Almost crazier to think that we coexisted with an alien civilization that's under the water that we didn't know about. Wouldn't we feel foolish? We would feel so stupid.
We thought we were the apex predators. We thought we were running shit.
These things are just hovering over our cities. Listen, man, I really hope you get that phone call.
It's always a pleasure to talk to you. And like I said, I really mean it.
If it wasn't for people like you that had the courage to come out and talk about these things, because I know there was a long time where airline pilots, a lot of different people just didn't want to talk about their experiences because it seemed like they were silly and they would be mocked. And it was widely dismissed.
And now it's kind of generally acknowledged that something's going on,

you know,

even from our own governors,

our own government.

So thank you.

If it wasn't for guys like you,

I don't know where this whole conversation would be.

So I hope you get a job.

Yeah,

please do it.

Tell everybody the website one more time.

Safeaerospace.org.

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