#2242 - Bert Sorin

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan experience.
Training by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Good to see you, Joe.
What's going on, man? Good to see you, man. Thank you very much for that extraordinary piece of athletic equipment you brought to the gym.
Absolutely. Is there a photo of that so we can show people what it looks like? Yeah, it should be on the website X Factor.
And what is it called? It's called the X Factor. Oh, it's called the X Factor.
What is the website? Sorenx.com. Go to Sorenx.com.
Check out the X Factor. So it's actually, pull it up, Jamie.
Pull it up, Jamie. Isn't that nice to say that? Yes, man.
It's fun, right? It's big. So this is the machine.
Yeah, it's actually Judd who was here a minute ago. Yeah, it's a brilliant machine, man.
The idea that you could push and pull rotational power machine. It really is a genius idea, man.
And for things like striking sports, that's huge. Like the ability to push and pull at the same time while stabilizing your core.
I mean, that is undoubtedly going to help people. You're definitely going to be able to deliver more power in strikes.
Right. Because you take the ground force and then be able to put it through, obviously, with the core.
Because that's all three planes of motion. All we obviously go through your core.
And then puts it into either your feet or your arms. It's just so unusual that you can do something like that.
I mean, I guess you kind of can do something like that with cables, with the cable machine, but that seems better. Yeah, because you have a little bit of a balance component as well, but you're right, like you're blocking, let's say you're a right hander, you're blocking on that left leg, you're stabilizing out the right hamstring and hip.
But yeah when you get that little extra extension i call it the riblets right there your obliques it just locks everything in so i'm interested to see what you come up with it's pretty dope and you were telling me that this was originally uh like you you came up with this idea from an older machine that's not yeah yeah so we've we you know i've been in this industry a long time and as well you have, but it's kind of taken a remastered series where we're taking all like the cool stuff that was, could have been our designs, but it could have been just old designs or just like kind of lost to the ages. And you're like, hey, that was a cool piece, but it sucked because you had to load it weird or it was like maybe wasn't as safe as it could have been.
And so it's like, let's break the whole thing apart, figure out what was good about it. And then that was like the eighth iteration.
We just kept playing with it. And then it was like when you realize the double axis is what made the user experience cool, then it was like, okay, this is badass.
And, you know, I sent that video to you. And then a couple colleges have already bought them.
And then Ryan Krauser, the world champion and record holder in the shop put, was like, yeah, like this is all rotational power. How do we turn that on? Yeah, it's so cool today because there's so much social media and there's so many videos and YouTube videos of people using equipment.
Like 15, 20 years ago, you had to go to a gym and go, oh, what is that? Oh, that's cool. Where'd you get that? How's that work? The big guy in the gym, you had to like, Hey, what's the deal? Yeah.
I mean, you and I grew up in the same era where we're going to gyms all the time and there's a bunch of quacks telling you to do stuff. Always.
Yeah. And then there's a bro scientist.
Total bro scientist. Yeah.
And then, and then you just like, Hey, if that guy's really good at something you know yeah back in the day i would after i compete probably much like you after i compete i would get whoever was better than me and i would offer to take them out to dinner and i would just go hey like i'd feed them beers until they basically told me how they beat me i'm just like well how much are you cleaning or what are? And then I would pick up some little idiosyncrasy of training.

And they're like, oh, we would do this contrast.

And I'm like, what's that?

And I would just keep digging and digging and digging.

I'd go back and figure it out.

Well, I remember when I was competing, they would tell you to not lift weights, which is so hilarious.

They used to say that.

They used to say it will slow you down and you'll become tight. Yeah.
And I remember thinking, like, why don't you just stretch if you're tight? Yeah, so horsepower makes the car slower? It didn't make any sense to me. It's like they thought that the only exercise you should do is martial arts itself.
Just hit the bag, you know, train. Now, when do you think that...
well, you got – you know, Bruce Lee would do – I mean, he did some exercise.

He did a lot of isometrics.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he had some lifting, but it was always pretty light.

But what would you say was the – when that changed?

I think it was Evander Holyfield.

I think it was Mackie Shillstone trained Evander Holyfield when he went up to heavyweight.

Okay.

And I remember myself at the time – so this was in the 90s.

I'm going to fuck himself up. Doesn't he know that all these coaches have already figured it out? Right.
And then all of a sudden Evander got all these traps and shoulders. Dude, he was trapped and dealt it out.
He got jacked. And he became a legitimate heavyweight.
Also, pretty sure there were some Mexican supplements involved. Yeah, he might have gone across the border.
I think it's a strong possibility. It was the 90s.
The 90s were a good time. I think it's a strong possibility that there was some help.
Because also, you never heard of anybody testing positive for steroids back then. No no and i know for a fact that some of those guys were on steroids i would not disagree i know people who know people and i know i mean we're all the same i would fucking put it all on black yeah well because up until 91 steroids weren't even illegal as a controlled substance do you You know who caused it to be illegal? Joe Biden.
No shit. Yep, that motherfucker.
It was all him. Yeah.
You know. Derek from More Plates, More Dates was telling us about it the other day.
I'm like, that motherfucker. He did it.
That should be alone a reason why. Well, I guess the idea is that people could abuse it, right? Right's the deal, folks.
You can abuse almost everything. This is my argument against online gambling.
There's a lot of people that think online gambling should be banned because so many people are losing money on online gambling. Shut the fuck up.
Do you know how easy it is to not online gamble? It's so easy. You know how easy it is? I've never online gambled.
It makes two of us. That's how easy it is to not online gamble.
I'd probably forget my password to get into the thing, but yeah. I'm not discounting the fact that gambling is addictive.
I personally know gambling addicts. One of my best friends, Dana White, is a fucking gambling addict.
He happens to be insanely wealthy so he can get away with it. That helps.
I grew up in pool halls. I know gambling addicts.
I get it. I'm not one.
So it's possible to fucking have some self-control and discipline and willpower. The weird thing, I've never done crack either.
Crazy. It's strange.
Do you know crack is everywhere and it's a scourge of humanity? I've never done crack. You know, it's really weird.
I'm so, I've never even seen crack. I've seen it.
Yeah. It's weird.
I saw cocaine once in my entire life, which is wild based on. That is pretty wild.
I know a lot of people and it's like, yeah, like, did they just think I would just say no to that? Because I grew up in the 80s and just say no generation. But I haven't seen coke.
I didn't think it was like a real thing. Since I was in high school.
I've never. Really? Yeah've never really yeah yeah which is kind of crazy because i know so many people who do coke yeah um but i was at a party in high school the last time i saw someone doing coke no way yeah in your world yeah my world this episode is brought to you by warfare from a24 written and directed by iraq war veteran ray mendoza and civil wars alex garlandfare embeds audiences with a U.S.
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Yeah. Well, I don't do anything like that.
I don't miss the new episode of mob land now streaming on paramount plus yeah why don't i don't do anything like that i don't ever fuck around i've never done coke i never even thought about doing it yeah but never had to desire because i was around people that were abusing it when i was in high school so i was like okay do you think that's because you're such like a strong personality and like kind of role model that people are like hey hey, Joe's not into that. Like keep it away from it.
Do you think they're like respectful of that and just kind of know the deal? They just know I don't want it. Yeah.
I think so. I'm just not interested in anything that gives me more confidence.
I'm not interested in that. I got plenty of that.
I like humility. I'm looking for humility.
I don't like confidence boosters. I don't like anything that gives you a ridiculous sense of your abilities.

I'm not.

I'd rather be humble.

I'm not interested.

I mean, delusionment is a strong suit.

Sometimes.

Yeah.

And it can get you pound up, too.

Definitely.

Yeah. I think it gets you pretty far, and then your fucking wheels come off.

You're in a ditch. It's like when you're skateboarding when you're a kid.
Have you ever seen a guy on a motorcycle, and you see when they do that, and you're like, no! It's like you had Josh Brolin on the other day. That was like what he did in Goonies.
Remember he had the little bike? Oh, that's right. He was talking about the motorcycle, and all I could think about is my head is him flying off the cliff in goonies oh that's hilarious i forgot he was in

goonies yeah i should have brought that up we could hold we should have wanted to bring it up so bad i was on the plane my tongue the whole time i was riding a plane i was like all i could see is that cat in sweatpants with his shorts on top of sweatpants riding a tricycle or whatever down this hill because he's one of the rare guys that was like a child actor that turned out really awesome. Yeah.
That's a small club. That's a fucking super small club.
Yeah. Because everybody that I know, and I know a few people personally that were famous as a young person, they're out of their fucking mind.
They're just, they're like, you know what I say it's like? Look at him. Hey, I have a good memory.
Look at me. How old was he back then uh he's probably 17 or 18 that's so crazy well he's two years younger than me 85 uh in 85 i was 18 so he's probably like well the 80s not so awesome 80s were pretty cool except everybody's worried that russia was going to blow us up the true story yeah.
I remember 85, I believe it was 85, going to, I know obviously we're both into archery. So 85 Rambo First Blood Part 2 came out.
Pops took me to the movie theater. He and I saw it.
And we went straight from there to the archery shop. I got my first bow that day.
Really? I still have it. Wow.
Yeah. It's awesome.
I still have some of the same arrows. No shit? Yeah, I strangely don't lose things.
But, yeah, I remember in the backyard shooting because, like, he kind of half-taught me, and then I was in the backyard zinging arrows and thinking, like, if I had explosive tips, like, how badass would this be? I went to Lanai, and, you know, they have the Pineapple Brothers has had archery, and I brought my whole family. And then they also have this area where you can go and you can shoot skeet and you drive four wheelers up in the mountains and then they had traditional archery like bows and arrows and I was like oh let me try this I don't know how to fucking aim I'm terrible at it I was like I'm a good archer I.
Or I thought. I could barely hit the fucking target from 20 yards away.
It's like the science and the art. Two different things.
They're totally different. Yeah.
I've always said like the guys that are traditional hunters, you know, trad guys, they're either weirdos or they're absolute killers. Right.
It's like Aaron Snyder type dudes. Yeah.
Who are so good at compound archery, they get tired of it. Yeah.
Or they're weird guys that smell like sausage and live in their mom's basement. And they're like, yeah, I know you do that, but you probably go to like Ren Fairs and stuff too.
So I'm not sure what's to deal with. Well, at Archery Country, you know, the local archery shop here in town, whenever I get a new bow or I get a new sight and I have to sight it in, we to their they have an indoor range and a lot of times in the indoor range there's these dorks sorry folks dorks with recurves and they're fucking they're at 20 yards they're spread it's like my arm length barely hitting the target don't do that this is stupid you This is stupid.
You don't shoot like a cardinal direction. I'm shooting east today.
Well, when they get good, like I've seen Schneider make groups at 40 that are like the size of a silver dollar. But most people struggle pretty hardcore.
But they say also that if you do want to hunt with it you have to practice

every day because it's almost like throwing a ball like you know if you're throwing a ball you

know how much the ball weighs because you throw it a bunch of times and you have like this muscle

memory that if i throw that hard at 20 yards i'm going to hit that thing yeah it's like a quarterback

like quarterbacks i know a couple of my buddies were college quarterbacks they're all good trad

archers because they kind of like have that hand spatial they know the memory yeah but you gotta be on yeah my buddy got into it brandon lily power lifter he got into it and he all he hunted with for a couple years was trad and that cat went like argentina and africa just nuts in a sack with he's like no i'm going'm going to trad bow. I'm like, okay, man.
I'm always like, do you hate accuracy? No, he got it done, but holy cow. I know, but there's something about dialing it in to like 47 yards, drawing back and center in your pin, and just watching that shot break and watch that arrow go exactly where you want it to go.
And swat and hit those ribs. Just the dopamine button of all time.
Oh, it's the greatest. It is.
Can you see the arrow? Does it slow down when you shoot at animals like it does for me? It looks like there's no way this arrow is ever going to get to. It's like everything in my brain.
It's like that book, the rise of superman when you go in a flow state and like everything speeds up in your brain so actually the person uh would be the perception all all lengthens out they say your brain actually starts firing three times faster the little pictures so that's why the it slows down this morning i watched that arrow just right-handed'm like, that deer's going to move. And it was only 27 yards.
But I'm watching it. Oh, that's interesting.
But when I'm shooting targets, I'm just like, nah, whatever. I don't seem to think that.
No. Really? No.
I always think it takes forever to get to the animal. No.
I'm trying to think. When do things slow down for me no jujitsu no jujitsu just with when you're really in a good state it's just almost like you're not thinking it's like all of a sudden you have an arm bar it's like so it is a flow state yeah it's a complete flow state but it's a flow state that's established after thousands of hours of drilling.
And that's the most important thing in jujitsu really is drilling. Everybody loves to roll because it's so fun.
Sure. Because it's like you're playing a video game.
You're trying to kill each other. But the really important thing is drilling and drilling with like a certain amount of rigor, like a certain amount of speed and intensity.

You know, you're not trying to hurt each other, but you're drilling with like intention so that your body is completely accustomed to these movements.

Like your body recognizes these movements and like you slap that elbow, grab that armpit, get that arm drag and you get the choke.

It's almost like it has before you even know it's happening because your brain is so just it's just wired in there.

Your whole nervous system knows exactly what to do.

It's like a cascading effect, like an if-then kind of deal.

Now, is that super slow drilling and then you just go to speed no no i think the correct way to drill is you drill with a little resistance from your partner like you don't want to put your partner to go limp on you sure but just a slight amount of like you have good partners a slight amount of resistance but then go through those motions with like a little bit of speed but not not like full blast sure but the whole idea is just get those numbers in bam bam bam eddie bravo is the best uh explanation for this he says you know when you tie your shoe you don't think about tying your shoe you just go and your shoe just ties yep right because you tie your shoes every fucking day. You know exactly how to tie your shoes.
Once you learn how to tie your shoes it's just bing. He goes that's what a jujitsu move is.
Ah that's terrifying. It's like it just gets in there and you don't sometimes you don't know what's happening until it's happened.
Like all of a sudden you have a triangle like whoa. Like shh! Yeah that was helpful.
Yeah it's just it's just you've done it so many times that when someone overextends or when someone gives up their neck, it just cinches up. It's just one of those things where your whole nervous system is just pre-programmed to these very specific movements.
Yeah. So you've taken all these little closed skills, which are replicatable, and then put them in an open format where like the if-then scenario, like the flow chart just goes, boom, go, go, go, go, no, go.
And the best guys are the guys that drill constantly and then also study and take notes. Like Gordon Ryan.
That's his belt up there. Oh, that's dope.
Gordon trains 365 days a year. 365 days a year.
And he doesn't take any days off. He't and he trains all fucking day long so if you want to beat him good luck because you have to catch those numbers you have to bypass those numbers somehow it's not like he's not talented it's not he's not intelligent it's not he's not physically strong so he's got all those attributes already.
And then you have this insane work ethic along with dedication to technique. Yes.
Which is – And you'd have years or decades to catch up. Exactly.
And you just can't. And so there's too many guys in jujitsu that were just like big muscle heads that would just like muscle a move and just give a lot of grunt.
And you're never going to beat a technique guy who's just as strong as you.

Right.

That uses less percentage of their power and everything to get the same job done. Also knows exactly where to be.

Like you might not know exactly where to be because you've gotten away with a lot of stuff because you're big.

Because you're big and you're strong and you've pushed through stuff.

Like big guys on their back.

Like there's a lot of big guys. They get on their back and they become turtles.
They don't know what to do because they never get put on their back. Because if they're training, if you're a guy who's 250 pounds and you're in a normal jiu-jitsu gym, what are the odds there's another 250-pound guy there? Most guys are 190, 200, maybe there's a 210.
There's not a lot of really big guys. But a 6'3",'s rare so you usually can push these guys onto their back and that's easier to do so you probably do that more often and you like smashing people so you smash all these people but the problem is then you never develop a bottom game you never develop a guard you never develop ability to get out from under a big guy and do it technically you know get that underhook like you know go work for a deep half like figure a way to get back up to your feet you you're just always used to like overpowering people and then when someone's bigger than you you're fucked way you're fucked so were you always strong like well i was always strong but i didn't really start lifting weights until i got into jiu-jitsu okay i mean i always lifted a little bit of weights i always worked out a little bit but i was more into kickboxing than anything sure but when i started doing jiu-jitsu i was like oh being strong is like a big advantage yeah it's a huge advantage yeah which is interesting because i was watching this video where these guys were talking about this these wrestlers and they were saying that wrestling has always acknowledged that really important.
But for some reason, jujitsu, they would like to pretend that it's not important, that technique is everything. Was it cultural from where it was? Like with the Gracies? I think technique is more important, right? Because if a guy doesn't have technique and he has strength and you have technique, you can beat him.
But you can't discount really effing strong. Right.
But you also can't discount a guy who's really fucking strong with technique. Yeah.
And they're not mutually exclusive. No.
Like a lot of guys who are really fucking strong also know how to grapple. And that's a giant problem.
Now, is there – like in the throws world, we always talk about like technique – speed is everything. Explain to people what you're talking about when you say throws world.
Like, yeah, so I'm one of those nerdy guys that picked a sport that's like the least paying sport of all time. I was a hammer thrower.
So it's like a shot put, steel ball, 16-pound steel ball on a one-meter, you know, three-foot-long wire. So what you see on the Olympics, they spin around really, really fast and yell and scream and always make like the highlight reels of guys that scream.
Where did that come from? Was that a weapon at one point? Yeah. Yeah.
So they actually – in Scotland, they would use – it was a hammer they would literally have like for agrarian society and they have a cylindrical head on it so they could use it every side. And so that became a way to train for battle because they weren't allowed – the Scottish weren't allowed to have weapons.
Yeah, so they would start throwing stones. After the Braveheart days? Yeah, during those days.
So they weren't supposed to have weapons. So they're like, F this.
We're just going to take all the stuff we have and stay strong, stay ready. And then actually their stone was called the Clacknart, which meant stone of strength.
What a great name. Wonderful name.
That's a Viking name if if i ever heard one tell me how badass this is so like each family like the rogan family like you're the patriarch right you'd have your clacknard up on the mantle or whatever it is so at your family outings whatever outings those may be all the men very much like in braveheart they would go and throw it the fur the guy who throws the clacknark, the family stone, the furthest is kind of like the dude. Like he's like, all right, all right, you.
Now my son has surpassed me. He's shown he's a man now.
Here's the wildest part. This gives me chills.
So they would, if they went off to battle, they would take their clacknark, their stone. And on the way out of town, they would all put it in a pile.
And they're called out, it's called a cairn or a carn. So they would put it in a pile.
So if they did not return to battle, they had placed their own monument to their town of their sacrifice. Whoa.
So could you imagine? So when you go past these old towns and there's a pile, you're like, a lot of guys didn't come home. And those piles are still there? When I was in Scotland, they did say a lot of them are still there.
I was competing when I did Highland Games, Scottish Highland Games.

And it's wild.

So, like, you think about it.

You're like, man, you're literally kind of placing your family's stone of, like, I'm going off.

And if I don't show up, like.

Dude, I was in Scotland last year.

And there was.

What part of Scotland are you in?

God, I wish I could remember.

I'm not exactly.

Up in the Highlands, like all the rural stuff.

Aberdeen.

I went with some friends, and they took us to this place that my friend owns a property out there. Naturally.
And when we went there, there was a stone circle that is way older than Stonehenge. No way.
Yeah, and it's just sitting there. A lot of stuff in Scotland's just sitting there it's just sitting there in front of this dude's house and you can go and stand on it I was like this is crazy and it's got like a little monument on it but no one's stopping you from like walking around on it and they're not big stones or small stones but this stone sort of they're like I'm like who made this I was asking the guy that we were with it It's pretty knowledgeable.
He's like, no one knows. Wow.
It's just left laying around. Yeah.
So like Scotland. There you go.
Is that it? No, that's not it. But it's kind of like that.
It wasn't nearly as high. There were smaller standing stones.
And it was, and there's a bunch of them like laying around. Like there's a guide stone on the ground.
Like how old is that? Like that's probably like thousands of years old. Wow.
But nobody knows knows like they don't know who made the stone put it there it's just a guide stone like so if you were on a trail through the scottish highlands you would find these rocks we're on the right place lud and this is stone that's been there for 3 000 years or whatever like they don't even know how old it is and it's just sitting there so cool though but it's a crazy thing it was like across the street from this guy's house so he's got like this normal house and there's a little street and then across the street from his house is a stone circle that's like who knows how fucking old um nope it's not that either yeah they had like uh the other stones of strength there the inverse stone that are older than stonehenge in scotland because of these I pulled up. God damn.
Maybe you were just really high. Maybe you were in actually England.
Oh, I was totally sober. Look at that image right there.
How weird is that one? So cool. The Ring of Brodger.
How do you say that? Brodger. They have some sweet names over there too.
Brodger. The Ring of Brodger.
What did they do in that ring? How many goats died in that ring? ring a lot of fights how many fucking people got sacrificed in that ring I mean thousands and thousands of years ago so cool the stones over there a lot of people go over to a lot of strongmen they'll do like the stone tour so they'll lift all the they'll lift the denny stones and the inverse stone and the inverse stone I lift that that was in an old lady's garden right there's like a stone lifting tour yeah it's like a 265 pound like big inverse stone. And the inverse stone, I lift that.
That was in an old lady's garden. Right?

There's like a stone lifting corner?

Yeah, it's like a 265-pound big egg stone.

It's just laying around?

It's literally in this lady's garden.

It's called the inverse stone.

And people go there?

People go there.

Ma'am, can I go lift your rock? So it's 100% what happens.

Really?

Yeah, we were over there competing, the U.S. team.

We were over there, and all the Highland game guys were like,

let's go check this out.

And we all lifted it. And she invited us in for tea.
She's like, well, come and uh the u.s team we were over there and like all the highland game guys were like let's go check this out we all lifted it and she invited us in for tea she's like well we'll come and uh come and sign the book and you look in the book it's like bill casmeyer was here so and so so you're like oh my gosh like the greatest strongman in the world had come as a pilgrimage to lift this stone and then they signed the book and you're like so weird this is awesome and then across the street there it is yeah there yeah and then how do you say that word we call it the inverse stone in in very called in very called stone yeah it seems like it's almost been like honed well that doesn't it seem like it was polished to that yeah chipped there you go that one's outside oh that one actually has numbers yeah that's the one i lifted it says six 265 pounds is what it says? Yeah. And so we lifted it.

And then actually, so what happened after back in the 80s when Kazmaier was coming on the scene, you know, Bill Kazmaier, obviously, world's strongest man, kind of started the stage.

He allegedly picked it up.

You know, it was the man thing if he could pick up.

He picked it up and carried it across the street and bellied it up to the bar and laid it onto the bar and had a beer.

I would be mad if that was my bar.

Right. Oh, he chipped the crap out of the bar.
a beer. I would be mad if that was my bar.
Right?

Oh, he chipped the crap out of the bar.

He did.

I was up there.

I was like, man, that's where Bill chipped it.

This is badass.

That's not a story.

I like that stuff.

So we traveled all around, lifted all the stones.

It was cool.

But anyway, a thrower is a person who decides to do a sport that doesn't pay a lot.

No, I'm just kidding.

But it's a shot put, discus, hammer, javelin.

It was all those original Olympic sports that were all weapons.

And so I –

That would be a good sport if you were a trans woman.

Oh, you would –

You would dominate.

Oh, if I –

Regular chicks wouldn't have a chance.

Oh, I'm at 48 years old.

I could still throw the living crap out of a woman's implement if I wanted to.

It would be a great move.

But, yeah, it was a part of the track and field.

I got into it in college, kind of a weird Forrest Gump-like story,

and it changed the course of my life.

I love it. it would be a great move um but yeah it was a part of the track and field i got into it in college kind of a weird forrest gump like story and it changed the course of my life have you done uh lift run shoot yet with cam i haven't done it with cam uh no i've we played around and done some stuff like that at my farm uh you know during you should do his his podcast the lift run shoot show that'd be great it makes you carry a rock up the fucking mountain i went up pisgah with him i haven't carried the rock and uh but i'm sure you've done like the cam rock that's i haven't done pisgah i'm not doing that fuck out of here that was rough yeah that was rough i started running i'm not a big cardio guy i shouldn't go in anywhere where that guy's running dude he is he is as advertised as a badass like he's a complete psychopath.
Legit. He's one of my best friends.
He's a complete psychopath. We all got running and then he kind of left me and then he got to the top and then did his dance and then he came back down and like, hey, man.
It was very remarkable. He goes, all right, why do I do this all the time? He goes, if we crested this corner right now and you saw the biggest bull of your life at 70 yards, could you make this shot? I'm like, bro, I'm looking out of my ear hole right now.
Like I'm screwed. He goes, that's why I do this every day.
I'm like, I'm tracking. He's also addicted to exercise.
He's addicted to cardio. Yeah.
I think there's a state of mind that a lot of those distance runners get in that they get really, really addicted to.

And there's a runner's high.

Have you experienced that?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Long cardio sessions.

Yeah.

I never have.

I've tried it.

Then I just either get bored or mad at cardio.

Then I go and lift weights and throw things. Well, you've got like that power strength throwing background.

It doesn't really benefit you to be really into cardio. Yeah.
It probably would diminish some of your strength. Like heavily.
Yeah. Greg Glassman back in 07 when I was throwing Highland Games, he was like, you got to do cardio or do CrossFit.
And I was like, why? And he was like, no, it'll help your throwing. Oh, the CrossFit guy? Yeah, yeah.
That doesn't look like it works out at all? That's the one. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm not taking advice from you, buddy.
Well, I was sitting there and I was like, I'm 265 pounds. He's like, you should do CrossFit.
And I'm like, I'm trying to be the best thrower in the world and that has nothing to do with any of this other stuff. Yeah.
I have a golden rule when it comes to taking advice. I don't take advice from anybody who looks like shit.
That's sound. That's sound advice.
If you look like shit, I'm not taking advice advice i know you had like some physical problems right yeah something's wrong with him or something but the bottom line is unknown and unknowable was not my sport my sport was extremely known and extremely knowable i know this episode is brought to you by farmer's dog it doesn't matter how old your dog is it's always a great time to start investing in their health and happiness thankfully, the farmer's dog makes it easier than ever to feed your dog a healthy diet of real meat and veggies. Dogs prefer their food, even picky dogs, and owners prefer their service.
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Olympic trials are on this day and I need to show up really far. And also, if you want to be a power lifter or if you want to do some just completely power-focused exercise, it does not benefit you to spend time getting in extreme cardiovascular shape like you do need to do what kind of running the cam does.
Yeah. And then it's not even not beneficial.
It's detrimental. Right.
I mean, we would joke like why run when you could walk, why walk when you could sit down and why sit down when you could lay down. Like as throwers, that's what we would do.
And then we would lay down every chance and eat every chance you get. And then we're like, I'm going to stand up and do something really hard and fast for three seconds well I'm gonna go rest for a while yeah call me when I'm back up yeah I mean there's different different things of different requirements but if you want to be a mountain elk hunter what he does is very beneficial I just can't run my I have a bad left knee that's been really bothering me the last few years yeah and I just twisted it again thisember yeah you're saying your sciatica was a little tweaked that was another problem that was from overuse of no it's just being stupid that's overuse of uh archery so i was yeah because you know i have two bows i have a bow that's 84 pounds and a bow that's 90 pounds so i'm pulling these 90 90-pound bows 100 times a day? Are you shooting that many times a day? Oh, yeah.
Good for you. Oh, yeah.
Oh, you have to. For that moment when, like, a fucking giant bull walks in between the trees and you have a 70-yard shot, you have to 100% be confident that you can make that shot.
And so i'm shooting at 84 yards over and over and over and over and i'm obsessive but the problem was i developed like tendonitis in my lower back so it's overuse from the stabilizing from like holding yourself so it's the pulling well i'm sure that's it but it's also holding it right there in that position and it's all in my right lower back but uh it's the pulling. Well, I'm sure that's it.
But it's also holding it right there in that position. And it's all in my right lower back.
But it's much, much better now. I started doing this thing called New Fit.
Okay. Talked about it the other day with Derek.
Where they're doing electrical muscular stimulation while you go through exercises. It's really helpful.
Really? Yeah, it's been three weeks. It's like a microcurrent or more like a...
It juices you up. Like it's – all the muscles contract.
Like stem kind of thing. Yeah, but it's very strong.
So this is – and you can crank up the intensity. So this is some of the shit.
Like you saw Mike Tyson when he was training for Jake Paul. He was doing that.
Like what I think it's really good for – I don't know if it's good for a lot of these things, but it's really good for rehabilitation. Sure.
For rehabilitation, I think there's tremendous benefits to it. And I bet there's some benefits for athletes for working on specific things and doing it while you're getting juiced up.
But, man, for me, it's helped me quite a bit pretty quickly too, like three weeks later. Was it on that specific spot? Or are they firing something else to balance it out? No, it's firing a lot of different parts of your back.
So it's like both sides of my back, my obliques, my core. And just going through a bunch of rotational exercises and a bunch of different things.
Strength and lower back. You know, you're getting a lot of blood flow through there and stretching it.
And it just was – I was getting pain and I was like, shut up, pussy. And I would just ignore the pain and then it just got bad.
It got bad to the point where my hips were getting kind of numb. And when I was hiking up hills like in October, when I was hunting in October, it was bothering me a lot.
I was like, okay, I've got to really do something about this now. Yeah, because you could be, you know, talk yourself in or out of something really hard.
But if it's something that's just going to be chronic like well i'm turning it chronic yeah but it's a lot better now good it's a lot better now and it's only been three weeks oh that's great yeah my knee is still fucked but not totally it's mostly soft tissue it just i twisted it i twisted it crossing um like slippery ground in uh in september and uh i've had a lot of problems with it. I've had two knee surgeries.
I had my ACL reconstructed. I had a meniscus piece removed.
And then when I was skiing, the last time I skied, last and final time I ever ski, this lady didn't know how to ski. She, likeid into the trail and I had to try to not wipe out, not hit her rather.

And I wiped out and I got what's called the insufficiency fracture.

So the bone fractured at the top of my shin, my fibula, or my tibia rather, right where the cartilage is.

And so, yeah, that created quite a bit of pain. And then i twisted it again one time when i was about to get on stage at stubs i was going to stubs which is like this outside uh concert venue and i was looking at my phone to turn my voice recorder on so i could like record and as i was doing that i twisted my knee on this concrete step just yanked the shit out of it to the point where my leg was shaking while I was on stage because I was in pain.
It looked like I was super nervous, but it was really just pain. Because I think at this point you get super nervous on stage when you're talking.
No, once I'm up there, I'm not nervous at all. Do you still get nervous beforehand? I get excited.
Yes. I think anything you do that you really care about, you should get excited.
I used to call it my national leg when I would go to national championships in the hammer. All year, I'd be fine.
And when I would wind the hammer on the first one, when I took the hammer back, my right leg would bounce. And I'm like, oh, there it is.
It was one throw a year. And I was like, here we go.
Oh, wow. We're back.
They just had adrenaline. Oh, it was adrenaline.
Because when you're in your physically, you're peaking for it. You're like, this is the day I have to compete.

You remember how it was.

But you're like, this is the day.

And everything else is kind of work.

And then you're like, I'm cashing out today.

I get to cash out today.

Wow.

And then it's like, oh, that was the best.

Yeah.

That was the best.

Doing exciting things is really fun.

Oh, man.

And it's so important for you to grow as a human.

Do something that scares the shit out of you.

Do something that excites you.

Do something that's difficult.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's almost, I don't know, sometimes it's good when it's more dynamic where you don't know when it's going to happen.

But looking forward to something is pretty badass, too, because then you can start focusing training and focusing efforts.

And then going through almost stages of guilt, but stages of excitement. And you're like, okay, am am i excited no i got this one don't just go back and forth yeah let's go it's live yeah that's what it is with everything i mean i think it's the these processes of like recognizing there's a goal yes working towards it solving problems working hard pushing yourself through discipline that's how you grow and it's like that that's how everything grows, right? This is how your mind grows.
This is how your body grows. This is how your life grows.
Like you have to do stuff that's hard. And then you get better at doing stuff that's hard.
And that's how you get better. Yeah.
And then you level up and you're in this next wilderness. You're like, all right, well, what's the next thing? When that alarm clock goes off, it's so hard to know that, you know, all these know all these things, but the force of the bed, the gravity of that warm bed.
It's cold in the room. Oh.
Especially, like, shout out to people who live in, like, Alaska. Oh.
When they have to get out of bed. Dude.
Fuck. I'm sure you've done some hunts where, you know, you're in a tent or something.
Oh, yeah. And then you're like, I to get out there but oh my this you're like my boots are frozen and like maybe that bull will just kind of walk more this way first time i ever did was a steve ronnell in montana oh yeah i remember seeing that it was nine degrees nine degrees in the morning we're just like jesus christ this is so cold that was the hunt that started it all for you wasn't it it? Yes.
Little forky kind of buck from what I remember. That's him right there.
No, okay. That's the buck.
Oh, no way. Yeah, that's the first buck I ever shot.
That's awesome. That's him.
Yeah. The buck that launched 1,000 hunting careers.
Well, it was a life-changing experience. But I remember that.
One of those things where you realize, like, wow, where would we be without houses? And it was a life-changing experience but you know things where you know you realize like wow where would we be without houses and it was only by the way it was only I think October it was October 2012 I'm pretty sure it was October and it was already 90 degrees in Montana like what was it like in February these poor fucks what's January like in the morning? And you're in a tent?

Fuck.

Well, it's like Josh Smith up there at MKC has talked about it.

He's like, yeah, everyone loves Yellowstone.

Y'all about to find out in February.

He's like, everyone wants to move here.

He goes, stick around.

It's going to get live here in about January or February.

How many people got super confused by that show and bought a house there?

And they're like, what is this?

Why is the ground solid? Exactly. Oh, I's like this is fantastic especially someone who's never lived in the real north before you don't know what happens when your ground freezes the ground is a piece of rock like so if you fall on it freezes you're like everything freezes yeah that's a that's a whole different animal it's a different way to live, that's for sure.
But, you know, I was talking with this gentleman yesterday, Rick Strassman. Oh, cool.
He was a scientist. But we were talking about the time where he was living in Alaska.
And he was living in Alaska, and he lived in Southern California, and then he moved to Fairbanks, where it's 39 degrees below zero. And he's like, what the hell? And then it's dark for like 10 hours.
Everyone's depressed. Yeah.
Vitamin D lights. Not dark for 10 hours, rather.
It's only light for four hours. Right.
It's light for four hours. So it's dark for 20 hours.
Yeah. Fuck that.
You've been to Alaska a lot, I would think. You like it? Sometimes.
I up there they're hardy they're a different kind of human yeah yeah i was it battle tested they are and everyone wears extra tough boots yeah you don't want to get caught outside with some fucking bullshit flip-flops yeah and if your boots are too clean you'll get made fun of openly they're like hey nice new extra toughs like cool you. You know, you're friends with Tyler from archery country.
Tyler's always walking around everywhere with flip-flops. Bro, that guy hunted yesterday in shorts.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, he's a different kind of dude. He killed a deer in shorts.
If you're in Alaska and you have flip-flops, you're going to die. Your feet are going to freeze off.
You're going to have no feet. Yeah.
Like you need boots. I was out at a bar out there.
We were in Homer, Alaska, and we were playing pool and jacking around where's homer homer is uh they have this big spit that comes out i don't know it's in alaska somewhere how far up there far it's all far big man i don't know when you see how big it is and you like lay it over the country jamie where's homer how much we stole for the russians of course you'd have that yeah there it is um so we were yeah damn alaska's big it's so cool isn't it so we're on that like big spit so we were on that bay which is crazy and yeah so we're down there and we were at a bar goofing around and um i remember i walked into the bathroom and i was like – I just kind of noticed. I was like, wow, there's no mirror on the wall, whatever.
I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. And one of the guys was like, yeah, there's no mirrors in the bathrooms in Alaska because it doesn't matter what you look like.
You better just be capable or you're going to die. And I was like, what a cool place.
Like he was just like, no one cares what you look like here. Everyone's hair is all froed out and they're dirty and oily and greasy he's like yeah that's that's the flex here if you're can make it that's interesting yeah i was like oh what a cool but yeah we were sitting in that bay looking across the bay uh with a pair of spotters and and looking at tracks and seeing animals across the bay like 19 miles away it was crazy on that white snow it was wild i never thought you could see that far of a spotting scope no kidding how much magnification is 90 oh wow yeah some monsters but still it was like yeah big swarro that you could see you know all of elon stuff up in space with probably imagine those poor fools that had to hunt with traditional bows no binos no spotting scopes dude did anything no wind checker no apps finder no apps i have apps i have everything oh yeah i have a range finder that syncs up with my app of course you do but i haven't even set it up yet but do you nerd out on all this stuff like i do i do see here's the problem i have a loophole range finder i really like full draw.
Yep. The reason why I like it is because it'll show you the arc of your arrow.
This is how nerdy it is, folks. So my arrows go 294 feet per second.
Okay. How heavy? These are 475, 475 grains.
And you calculate all this stuff. You put all this stuff into the rangefinder, and the rangefinder knows exactly how heavy your arrow is, exactly what the peak of it's going to be as it comes off your bow, how fast it's going, and it gives you a line.
So that line, so if I'm shooting through a gap in some trees, and I actually did this a couple years ago. I actually did it when i had a garmin rangefinder right so the garmin is a range finding site which is pretty badass i've always wanted to play with it kept fucking up though yeah and apparently they're getting better but electronics they they fucked me a couple times and it would fuck me on my range like i would i'd be at full draw my range and i know it's 84 yards and i press the button and i'm not getting a range and I press the button again.
So you would press the button and it would give you a red dot. When it works, it's the greatest thing of all time because it's like a pistol.
Like you see that red dot, that clear lens and then that dot. It's the best sight picture of all time.
Of all time. Everything else like the post or the side post, a little in the way just to touch not not bad.
I can deal with it, you know But that red dot was fucking amazing So I shot this I'll show you the bull afterwards I shot this big bull and he was coming through this gap and I wasn't sure if the arrow was gonna make it there So I pulled out the second rangefinder and I clicked on that and I got the height of the arrow I knew I make it there. So I pulled out the second rangefinder.
And I clicked on that. And I got the height of the arrow.
I knew I could make it. And then I used the rangefinding sight.
A man that knows his tools. The opposite of these guys with their traditional bow.
Poink. I'm using technology.
Sure. So the new loophole, though, the problem is it doesn't have this height thing in it.
But the new one, when you range an animal with Onyx Hunt, so you range the animal and it puts a pin down where that animal is. Yeah.
I actually had the – I was one of the test subjects for that. They sent me – yeah, probably two years ago I was hunting at Deseret with it, giving them feedback.
We found a mule deer the day before and I ranged him, marked him, and we went back the next day and i shot him at 14 yards that's crazy it was awesome that's crazy because you can go back to the actual spot where he was yeah yeah it threw it off to my phone and uh it was like the i can't remember what it's called it's the range but it has like the lf something 500 500 yeah something like that you can find it jamie yeah it's pretty dope it's super cool i love Leupupold shit I just wish their glass was as good as Swarovski's Yeah everybody I say that about everybody like Vortex makes awesome binos for the money you can't beat them Especially their HDX series those really high-end ones just are fucking great until you put it through the Pick up those NL purers and you're It's so, it's almost like I wish I never looked through them. Oh, it's.
That's it. Yeah, that's it.
The RX 5000. Yeah, that thing is badass.
It's pretty dope. So it does, it syncs up with your Onyx Hunt.
So you could show you how it works there. So what's really good about that is not just, you know, you know where you hit the, you know where the animal is.
So if you have to go around somewhere and get back to them, you'll be able to get back to – if you're trying to get away from the wind. Well, the spot and stalk is so nice because we were hunting mule deer in Arizona.
And you could – same thing. You're circling around and your depth of perception – I've been 200 yards off.
I feel like this is more designed though for the rifle hunter and this is like even they're even showing guys like going 2 000 yards with this thing i feel like uh for the bow hunter they just need to add that maybe it'll just make it too big but add that height of arrow technology i don't know why they wouldn't put that in there. Yeah.
Because I can't use it. I need that.

That is so huge for elk hunting.

Yeah.

For me, it's like gaps or everything.

I want to be able to be sneaky and just make my way around a tree.

Just give me this.

Give me this much.

And if I know that the arrow is never going to hit the top or the bottom, I'm golden.

And I have full confidence.

Because otherwise, it's a mind fuck.

Because I'm sure you've had arrows hit branches before. Oh, yeah.
It sucks so hard when you whack. Yeah.
Like you're learning in Cleveland somewhere. A few years back in Utah.
Here's the third one. That one I had pulled up had a TBR was made for ballistics.
Four, I think, this morning. These are all for archery.
Yes. Well, the TBR is to the right.
that one is a similar one that was like i don't think that's as sophisticated though and i don't think that has the app the i think the rx one is the only one the app but i have that one the full draw five i don't go anywhere without that it's the shit that that is to me i have uh i've had a bunch of different ones that were really cool like aaron schneider turned me on to this Nikon a while back that was image stabilizing. That was a game changer.
That's a big deal because you could really get it right on the animal. Yeah, image stabilizing range finder.
Yeah. I used image stabilizing binoculars.
Have you used those SIG ones? I've used cams. I tried that.
Those things. Pretty dope.
I'm running 16s. Yeah? Oh, right right because you could just hold them because you just hold i mean i have i've run suarro's since 1999 and i started leaving mine at home because i like the sig so much and they did the new hd so it has a better uh glass now it's still not as clear as suarro's i mean that's just but because you could stabilize i could run 16s and I'll run 16s in the woods because I could just peer through everything and like, boom.
I ran 12s in the woods this year, which is a little too much. When you're not stabilized.
I usually run 10s, but like sometimes. 10 by 42s.
Yeah. Sometimes when you're looking at something that's really far off, you're like, I don't know if that's a good bull.
Is that worth chasing? The 12s make all the difference in the world. But what I do is I grab my baseball hat.
I learned this trick from Remy Warren. Oh, that's a good idea.
What you do is Remy's a killing son of a gun. He's a killing son of a month.
You clip that sucker down tight so your hat's on tight. And then I'll do this.
And I'll hold my binos right here. Or take my bow and put it here and then stack it on top of the bow press the bow up against your chest so it's not going to go anywhere and then stack it on top of the cam of the bow a lot of guys do that sure but remy taught me this one and i think this one's super legit just hold on your ass too and you can get your you can tuck your elbows in like this and you can really keep it stable if i couldn't do that i wouldns, but I don't think I'm going to use 12s anymore anyway.
Really? No, I think 10s are the way to go. Maybe even 8s because you get a bigger field of view.
Yeah. Because a lot of times I'm seeing stuff through trees, and I'm sneaking around.
I like to – I'm a big spot and stalk guy. Sure.
I've tried a bunch of different hunting. I've tried ground blind.
I tree stand hunted with Dudley. That, you can go fuck yourself with that.
Sitting in those trees all day. Fuck that.
I am way too ADHD for that. You'll find out if you're crazy.
Oh, I'm crazy. Yeah.
I'm definitely crazy. Yeah.
I don't like it. I don't like being up there in a tree like that.

Here's my question, though. I was just in Missouri.
I went to our farm. I was there six or seven days, and we sit 30 minutes before to 30 minutes all day.
Yeah, you have to. But I would think with as many people as popping on you and all this, it was nice because for me, I'm like, I'm quiet.
I could just be just be i enjoy i enjoy that part where i could just unravel and think like think through problems but yes you go crazy and then you burn out your phone because you're like and i'm gonna search for the dumbest things possible i'm gonna buy socks 100 you're just sitting also you you don't realize like if it's 30 degrees out like 30 degrees no big You can walk around 30 degrees. But as soon as you're sitting there in 30 degrees, you get so fucking cold.
So cold. You're not moving.
So you're not generating any heat at all. Yeah.
So then you're in this stupid body warmer suit that zips up. Oh, yeah.
You're like in a big Snuggie. It's a big old oven.
And my hands are in here. But the problem with that is if a deer comes and you've got to zip, you've got to make all that noise.
You've got to get out of it, all this movement, grab your bow. So you really shouldn't do that.
So you try to go with a puffy, but you're still freezing. So then I started doing Bruce Lee exercises while I'm up there and fucking...
One thing I realized, I was so cold, I had a hard time pulling my bow back once. I was going to shoot this deer and I was up in that stand for like four or five hours.
in iowa and i go to pull that bow back i'm like jesus well because you shoot a 90 pound bow yeah but i was so cold part of it yeah oh no it's yeah i'll sit there and just do like you know i had a 95 pound bow for a while i remember when he made you that one uh i couldn't draw it on my knees i had to stand up you know how i found that out because you could because i was on my knees right behind a bush and an elk walked behind my fuck god damn it you're like that's super and i was in a weird spot too where i could only lean on my left leg too like so it was you know it was like i was on my knee but i was even on my left knee it was like a fucked up right you don't have a good yeah i was like my right knee was up like this my left knee was down there like this is I was like, this is bullshit. That bow was crazy.
I remember you texting me. It would shoot 540 grain arrows, 305 feet per second.
Bro. When it hits, it was just like, whop.
I remember we were shooting at the Deseret, and we were all shooting at 100 yards, just me and a couple of these guys. And they shot first, and then i shot and the guys go what the fuck are you shooting because the bow was the ke was still

rolling at that point he goes that bow is so flat what is that i'm like this is a 95 pound bow

it was the dumbest thing ever i remember you sent me he was like this thing's preposterous it was so

dumb it also had a really short brace height so it was super sketchy so if you moved your hand

it was so unforgiving that if you move your hand even slightly you were off target by six inches oh geez yeah just really driving a little tokyo drifter around it was so dangerous not dangerous really but like you just wouldn't yeah i wouldn't trust it you know i killed a couple animals with it and i stopped trusting yeah you get to put it on the wall and go well then i went to an 80 pound bow from Hoyt and I was like oh my god this is so much better it was like 15 20 percent more accurate I was like that thing is just too yeah I just got that rx9 like last week oh that's great yeah it's I'm shooting 76 but I'm 30 and a half inches I got pretty good stroke on it oh yeah man yeah I need some extra horsepower at 28 and a quarter i need like i'm shooting 520 grain at about 282 so it's moving out that's great that's that like um guys like randy olmer he likes 265 to 280 yeah he thinks that like that's that's the range where the arrows are, like, the most accurate. There's this thing about having too much fucking whip.
Yep. You know, there's too much, and it's almost like...
You get too much flex on the arrow. You have a lot of flex on the arrows, and it's probably more subject to wind drift when they're flexing like that.
It's like when you used to throw the javelin, there was different rated javelins, and you could be too strong for the the jab and so if you don't pull through the tip perfectly just like arrow spine right and so you have a 50 50 meter jab 60 meter jab 70 meter and when you start getting strong you could bend a 50 meter jab like a banana it's kind of fun actually it comes out like lamar from uh like what was it uh revenge of the nerds oh okay but yeah That makes sense that it would be just like arrows. Yep.
Because for folks at home, say if you have a 50-pound bow, you could probably get away with a 320 green arrow, 330, 350. So the higher the number, the more flexible the spine of the arrow is and the lighter the arrow will be.
Right. So I shoot a 250.
So it's like a nice stiff – Because of all that kinetic energy. Yeah.
Yeah. Especially how much weight you have in the front creates that more of a flex.
Exactly. But to me, it's all about – like I've heard arguments before.
Like people say, oh, you don't need that much bow power. Shut your fucking fucking dirty little skinny mouth because the only reason why you would say that is because you can't pull that back that's the only reason and if you think that 70 pounds to you is the same as 70 pounds to me and you don't work out that's just dumb that doesn't make any sense yeah it's like saying well you don't need a 500 look.
Yeah, but it's nice. Yeah, but if you can't squat 500 pounds and you have to squat 500 pounds, you can't do it.
I can. So shut the fuck up.
It's nice to have in your pocket. Shut your dirty little skinny hole.
Yeah. Because all that is is you're just saying there's virtue in being physically weak, and that's stupid.
That's stupid. Do you need to be able to pull back 80 pounds to kill an elk? No.
If you can't pull back 80 pounds and you're really accurate with 60 pounds and you have a cut-on contact broadhead, you can be successful. But I'm going through that whole animal.
I'm getting a pass-through on a giant animal and you're probably not gonna. And I think it's more important to be able to have the most ultimately lethal setup possible i learned this from cam he's my mentor yeah he's the guy who taught me how to bow hunt and you know his whole thing is he shoots a 90 pound bow as well it's like the most amount of power and you want to make a big fucking hole yes and you want that animal to die like that well with anything why would more horsepower if you could handle it not be advantageous it's stupid that's why race cars have limits on the amount of power you could have because it's more advantage you know if a formula one drivers figured out a way to get a 4 000 horsepower engine and have it handled they would win they would win they would win or if you could punch 30 harder than everyone else in ufc yeah do it yeah literally, that's how Francis Ngannou became the heavyweight champion of the world.
It's harder than anybody. It's interesting.
My buddy, Loren Landau, strength coach, I was talking to him last week, and he did actually a study on ground force power into punching. And they did – so they tested it on like a force plate, jump and force plate and then they uh did a proteus machine have you ever seen one of those they kind of like it's like uh you kind of throw it and push it kind of the same thing so they tested the the power of the punch then tested ground force and then they did um squats but they also did like a trap bar dead lift and then the training was a jammer arm like a you a jammer arm punch.
So they had the sequence of force. And he had a double digit increase of strength through the or power through the ground.
And it equated to a 12 percent increase in punching power. So almost almost percent for percent.
So you look at that and say, well, if you're stronger, you squat more or deadlift more now as long as it doesn't take away from the sport.

But that has a very, very real effect on punching power. Yeah.
It does. The way it takes away from the sport is if you're sore from lifting weights, you're not going to train as effectively.
That's just a fact. Yes.
Or it takes too much time away from your technique or injury or whatever. That's where steroids come in.
And that's why Gordon Ryan can train 365 days a year. He's open about it.
He's open about his use. Yeah.
Because they don't test for steroids in jiu-jitsu. So he's a wizard.
That's interesting. I figured that they would.
Nope. UFC they do, right? UFC they do.
Yeah. But have you ever seen Gordon? You ever seen him with his shirt off? Oh, yeah.
That motherfucker, he ain't passing no tests.

Give me one of them photos of Gordon looking like a Greek god.

He's squared away.

Yeah.

I mean, when you have that and then you have a genius level IQ and then on top of that,

you get the fuck out of here.

It's pretty typical.

This big shit eating grin on his face.

And then you have a guy who trains 365 days a year who also works on technique constantly. That's how you have the greatest of all time.
Yeah. Yeah.
But by the way, all those guys like Galval, the guy who's on the bottom there, he's on the juice too. It's a level playing field.
They're all juiced up. Right.
Right. It was kind of like the lifters and the throwers of the 80s.
Everyone had a 600-pound bench because that's what you do. And guess what? You got you got a test now well this is a great argument to this idea of power being necessary like with jujitsu and grappling you know like if you have technique like gordon's and you're built like him yeah giant advantage giant advantage to be super strong always in all of life there's fucking zero advantage of being weak no there's never a time you, you know what? If I could just get my squat down a bit, that would really pan out for me.
One thing, though, that is really important. This actually really pays off.
If you can train with a guy who's small, like if you can learn jujitsu with a guy who's small, you'll learn the best jujitsu. Why is that? Because they have to use technique.
They have to use leverage. Like, you're a big fucking strong guy.
If you learn Jiu Jitsu, you could use that strength. You could squish people's necks and throw them on the ground and grab their arms and stuff like that.
But a small guy can never do that. So if you can learn Jiu Jitsu from like a Barrett Yoshida or a Hoyler Gracie or Eddie Bravo, or there's a few of those.
Gabe Tuttle who teaches over here at 10th Planet. Small guy jiu-jitsu is the best jiu-jitsu because it has to be razor sharp because they don't have the physical strength like overpower an arm and get you into a certain position just from raw horsepower.
They have to like sneak it in there with leverage and they have to do everything perfectly. So those guys, if you learn jujitsu from them, you're going to learn like the most technical jujitsu.
Is that like obviously a reason why you should learn younger when you're small? This episode is brought to you by Zip Recruiter. Sometimes speed is a huge asset, like in the ring or on the field, being quicker than your opponent could be

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M for mature.

Well, it's always good to learn

young, because first of all, it becomes a natural part of your movement. Like, it's like as your body matures, your body's – I think it's more important with striking than anything.
It's very rare that someone learns how to strike while they're already physically mature and can ever reach the level of like a Floyd Mayweather. Right.
Because that guy, as he was a child, his body, his reflexes developed striking.

And he's just got this massive encyclopedia of information that's available to him.

He knows exactly when he sees you do this, he knows that straight left is coming.

And he knows all he has to do is do this.

And he knows the counter is going to be there when you go to look for the right hand afterwards. He's just got it all programmed.
It's all just like right in there. For you to build that up after you're 28, like you're going to be you're never going to be at his level.
You're not you kind of have to unless you're some physical freak which do they do exist you know yeah but what i've understood too is the potential for building speed which is let's be honest speed is a big part of power which is punching right it's the sequence of force how do you create force to the ground explosion of force not implosion into your arm or your foot or whatever it is that ends at 22 that the potential to develop the potential for speed ends really yeah that's why all the the weightlifters and everyone gymnasts everyone has to start young so when you're firing patterns 27 and you try you'll never you won't reach the potential you could have genetically because you just don't have this the sequence the speed right it's it's the i this at speed. It goes whack, whack, whack through here, and I could crack that whip.
Yeah. Your body just has, it's done too many other things at lower speed.
You know where I really noticed that? With kicking. When I teach people kicking, there's certain things that they have a really hard time doing fluidly.
Sequence of force. The big ones is like anything that requires spinning.
Like if you look at a good MMA fighter that doesn't have like a Taekwondo background and you teach them how to throw a wheel kick, they'll never be able to throw a wheel kick like a real Taekwondo black belt. There's certain guys that like as they're young, they're developing these spinning techniques and they just got it wired in their whole nervous system just and it's so smooth and fluid that the power is so extraordinary and you know i've taught people that were like elite mma fighters and i try to teach them how to throw things like a spinning back kick for instance.
And it takes a long time for them. Even like John Jones is one that he landed like on Stipe.
That guy's a freak. Like that guy is like what we're talking about.
Like there's some guys you can teach them things when they're in their 30s and they can develop it like someone who's been doing it their whole life. But that's a rare exception.
Another rare exception I was thinking was Alex Pereira. Alex didn't really start striking until he was like 21 years old.
He didn't even start training. But my question would be what other things did he do that developed that speed and power sequence? You know what he did? He worked in a tire shop.
Really? Yeah. So he's like hoisting tires and hammering tires down and setting wheels.
Right. So you're learning to do the most, because if you're doing it for a job, you're going to do the most efficient method possible to move an object, right? To whip that tire up there.
You're also going to develop rotational strength. You're throwing hammers down.
I mean, he's doing this eight hours a day, all day long. So, like, think about how many tires he's hammered, right? Yeah, that's not a training thing for him.
Francis Ngannou, when he was a child, worked in a sand mine. So he's fucking digging sand all the time.
He's just, ah! His body's just, as he's developing. Also, massive physical specimen, right?'s like six six or six five whatever he is 265 natural built like a fucking greek god like a statue and his whole body's developing as he's a young man digging sand and the anger you have like i can't believe i have to dig this fucking shit man it's like the wheel of pain like yeah it is like conan he really is like a guy from a movie in a sand and then becomes a heavyweight champion of the world was homeless oh yeah his his you ever heard his story oh yeah so uh buddy of mine bo sandoval used to run the uh strength conditioning direct he was a strength conditioning director at ufc and so he told me about it years and years he's like we got this guy and i was like really he goes no this is gonna be a dude and i'm like really and he told me his whole story about cameroon and like living in france and the whole deal and i became like i never even looked eyes on the guy i was like this guy he's my guy i want to like i want to like him oh and then he came on the scene we're like whoosh his life story told on the podcast about making his trek like he just decided he has to leave Cameroon.
And everybody's like, what are you going to do? You can't go anywhere. And he went through the fucking desert all the way to Morocco and then gets in a raft and does it seven different times.
He gets arrested, gets taken into custody. They bring him into the middle of the desert, drop him off.
He goes right back to Morocco, walks through, hitches rides. Took him a year and a half.
If he makes – I don't care how much money that guy makes. It's not enough for just being able to do that.
Like, that is so, so, so cool. How about he has one boxing fight and he knocks down the heavyweight champion of the world and one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time.
He hits him with a left hook and drops him and almost won. Like, I thought he won the decision.
It was over.'re gonna give it to him i think he won the decision he was battering him in the eighth round he dropped him in the second i'm like i think he won and a lot of people thought he won yeah and he came that close that fucking close and so is that like uh obviously genetically super gifted right but then also like we're talking about like shoveling and doing all this work when you do that work for that long you learn how to become efficient because you don't want to spend extra time and effort doing stuff so you just learn how to kind of move stuff there's a little bit of that and i think to be to be really charitable i think tyson fury probably didn't think that he had a chance i think tyson fury probably didn't train as hard as he would have trained if he thought that Francis was a real threat.

I think he probably thought, I'm going to box this guy's fucking face off.

How could this MMA fighter?

And then he gets hit with one of them hammers.

Thud.

He gets left hooked on the side of his head.

He's like, what the fuck did this guy just hit me with?

And he's on his ass as the

heavyweight champion of the world fighting a guy with zero professional fights that was his first ever pro fight his second ever pro round and he drops one of the greatest heavyweights in the history of the game you i think my here's my uh mount rushmore of heavyweight boxers mike t Tyson's number one. Mike Tyson from 1986 to like 1990, or 88, whatever it was.
It was a few years before the wheels came off because he was just going crazy and partying and fighting with syphilis and shit. He was a maniac.
But that guy, the guy who knocked out Michael Spinks, the guy who knocked out Larry Holmes, the guy who won the title from Trevor Burbick, I think that guy's the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time.

He was a juggernaut, man.

The guy who knocked out Marvis Frazier, that's the scariest version of Tyson ever, the Marvis Frazier version.

Because you were probably late high school.

I was a little kid, and I remember walking out with my skateboard, and they were like, did you see the Larry Holmes fightry holmes fight last night i was like oh no but i heard it was like 19 seconds or whatever it was it was crazy all pumped no the larry holmes fight went a few rounds differently than i did as a kid yeah well i was yeah i was doing a little boxing myself and i was a giant boxing fan he was a freak he was a very unusual thing because every other heavyweight was kind of slow and even if they could hit hard they were lumbering

He was bobbing and weaving and moving and he was a small heavyweight wasn't even six feet tall

Yeah, so he's built like a brick shithouse. He's got a 20 inch neck

he's

220 pounds moves like a guy was 150 and he's throwing lightning bolts at your central nervous system just yeah

He's hitting you to the body and your fucking legs are shutting off. He was a monster.
I just think you can't maintain that forever. And I think I always, when I look at fighters, I try to look at them like when they were white hot.
Just burning hot at the highest level that they could achieve. What was that like? Like, what was that? I feel like as great as Muhammad Ali was, man, I just don't see him surviving.
Not at the height. No.
No. I just, I see, like, Henry Cooper dropped Ali when he was back when he was Cassius Clay with a left hook, and they cheated to get him out of the round.
Custom Otto cut his gloves, so they had to take his glove off and replace the gloves. They gave him all this recovery time.
You ever seen that Henry Cooper fight? Henry Cooper was a bad man. He was this British boxer, this guy from England who had a nasty left hook, and he caught Cassius Clay, just bap, perfect one, and he slumps down the ropes.
He was Dunsville.

But it was at the end of the round.

And then Angelo Dundee, I mean, that guy had been around the block.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He knows his stuff.

Cut these fucking gloves.

See if you can find that, Jamie.

Because it's a crazy fork in the road in history.

Right.

Because if they don't cheat, likely he gets stopped.

Likely, Henry Cooper, who landed the perfect left hook, hits him with a couple more and that's it. He's done.
He looks done already. Watch this.
Henry Cooper had a nasty left hook. Look how he's down there.
That's not regular down. That's fucked up down.
That's like real trouble, but it's the very end of the round look at this bro but look how he goes down that is yeah Dunsville so if that's a minute earlier if he gets hit with that yep the whole thing changes right the whole thing changes he's not undefeated when he fights Sonny Liston he's not this unstoppable force isn that crazy? Crazy! And that can happen. And there are fighters that I have seen in the UFC that I go, this guy could be the next fill in the blank.
This guy could be the next great welterweight champion, the next great lightweight champion. And then they have one fight.
And in one fight, something happens. They get hit with a flying knee, or they get head kicked, or something happens.
And then they have one fight and in one fight something happens they get hit with a flying knee or they get head kicked or something happens and then their whole path changes and you're like wow if that guy wasn't overmatched if he didn't fight that guy. So this is the difference between boxing and the UFC.
The UFC is like when you're ready to us. And you're going to fight the best.

Wow.

Boxing is like, we're going to build you. We're going to take you and you're going to fight a few guys that are like real slick, but they don't have power.
And then you're going to fight a big guy with a lot of power, but he doesn't have any endurance. Yeah.
And they're like, he's ready for this now. You know, if you have a really good trainer like Tyson Fury's trainer, Sugar Hill, he's analyzing your movements.
He's breaking down things. He's figuring out what to change, what not to change, when to back you off at training.
You're a little too hot right now. Let's not peak too soon because we've got two weeks before the fight.
I want you to take a day off. Take a day off I'm ready to fucking eat nails.
No, no, no No, we got out we got things they know exactly and then they're like he's ready for this level of competition So they'll give you a guy that'll offer you some struggles some tests Maybe he's got a big big punch and you know You might lose the fight, but you're most likely gonna win and this is how you find out if a guy's gonna make make it. You slowly move him.
So there's a lot of boxers. By the time they're fighting for the title, they're 14-0, 16-0, 18-0.
Charles Oliveira. I mean, what is Charles Oliveira's record? Let's see Charles Oliveira's record.
So Charles Oliveira, when he became the lightweight champion, he had a ton of losses in the UFC. He got stopped by Paul Felder.
He got stopped by Cub Swanson KO'd him. He got, I think, I'm pretty sure Jim Miller knee-barred him.
So what is his record? Jim's a freak. Look at that.
35-10. Okay? And so out of those 10, a few of them have been recently.
Scroll up to the top please so the islam makachev he loses a title and then armand sarukian he loses a split decision i thought he won that fight by the way um but it was close so those are the two out of those 10 so that means as a champion he had eight fucking Eight losses, and some of them brutal knockouts.

Because you're in there with the Lions, with all the Lions.

And so the UFC is like, who's the baddest Lion?

Let's figure it out.

You want to be in the UFC?

You win a few fights, we're going to throw you in. Or if it's, you know, last short notice, short notice fight.

Let's go.

And the thing you find out, too, is that the level at the UFC,

as you can see. you win or if it's you know last short notice yeah short notice fight let's go and the thing you find out too is that the level at the ufc as great as some of these guys look in these other organizations the level at the ufc that's the peak those are the greatest fighters on the planet there's no arguing about it and we found out about that this past weekend because alishandre pantoja who might be the best pound for pound fighter alive he's the flyweight champion he fought this dude Kai Asakura from Japan who's a fucking assassin but Pantoja just ate him alive just ate him alive and he got caught with a couple good shots to a couple good knees to the body and you know Kai Asakura is a really good fighter but the level was just different like Pantoja just he strangled him but it's just the way he did it i mean he was fucking him up on the feet he was fucking him up everywhere he was just pushing him in this like insane pace you watch those little guys fight like they can they fight like pit bulls man yeah like just like wild scrambles where they're moving so fast you're trying to to call the fight.
And it's like me and Daniel, we're talking about it during the commentary. Like we have to recalibrate our brains.
Yeah. Because you will go from a heavyweight fight to a flyweight fight.
Like, whoa. It's like listen to a podcast when you turn it to one point five.
Yeah. I actually had to start listening to your podcast at regular speed because I was I thought you talked really fast.
I was just like, oh, Joe, no one talks that fast because I listen to it super fast. Somebody sent me a clip of someone, some political person talking about one of the guests on the show.
And I was like, what is wrong with the clip? And then I had to realize, oh, they got it on speeded up version. Yeah.
Do you listen to stuff speeded up? Never. Never.
A buddy of mine taught me that. He listens to books.
He got up to 4X. And so he just downloads.
But are you absorbing it the same way? I think if you're kind of like Rain Man, which I'm not. I'm not.
But I could go 1.5 pretty easy and I could just get through it faster. Yeah, I see how that could help.
But for me, I'm not reading books on tape or listening to books on tape for anything other than my own enjoyment and education. So for me, I'm enjoying it.
So I like to think about the things and I'll have more time to think about what this person is saying if they're not going at one and a half speed. Because if they're going at one and a half speed and going one concept to the next, then I'm like, wait a minute.
I don't understand. Then I have to back up.
yeah i like to think about stuff so it's like especially if i'm listening to something esoteric or really weird yeah you know sense which is a lot of the stuff that i listen if i'm not listening to fiction i'm probably listening to a book on physics or something yeah i listen to jack carr stuff at regular speed because i really just enjoy the books oh that guy what is his name who's the guy who does his guy's really good yeah I can't remember he has a lot of good

dialogue really just enjoy the books oh that guy what is his name uh who's the guy who does his uh by guy's really good yeah i can't remember he has a lot of good uh dialects and everything yeah jack uh texted me this morning he said hi he's the man he's awesome i love that dude see our cross tomahawks on the wall oh for sure i love it yeah he's like hey tell joe i said hi i love that dude yeah he's salt of the earth yeah we just got him some cmbs uh ray porter with the Ray Porter. Yeah, Ray Porter.
I knew it was a Ray something. With the cross tomahawks on there.
He's salt of the earth. We just got him some CMBs.
Ray Porter.

Ray Porter.

Yeah, Ray Porter.

I knew it was a Ray something.

With the cross tomahawks on there.

He's the fucking man.

And the thing about his books on tape, though, is you're locked into Ray Porter forever.

Some new person starts reading.

Oh, you're screwed.

Like, who is this guy?

This is bullshit.

Yeah.

You can't have this guy doing it.

The guy's amazing.

I'm used to all the voices.

Rafe is a good voice.

Yeah, he's got a South African voice.

All right. This is bullshit.
You can't have this guy doing it. This guy's amazing.
I'm used to all the voices. Rafe is a good voice.
Yeah, he's got a South African accent. You know who else is really good? Who's the guy who does the Gray Man series? There's a guy who does...
You ever listen to the Gray Man series? I'm so addicted. Mark Graney writes them.
They're so ultra-violent. They're so fucking crazy.
They're so crazy.'s about a CIA hitman. Oh, it was like a singleton guy.
They send all around dude It's so like they made a movie about like one of the weird ones will give you like you think about it all night kind of like oh yeah when I would start watching The Sopranos like my View on the world would change Jay Snyder that guy's really good. He does really good voices too but um those fucking books man they are so ultra violent they're so crazy they're so crazy like sometimes i listen to them and i have to shut them off before i go to bed like if i listen to them like i like to take the sauna before i go to bed and so if i'm listening to like you know a book on cosmology that's great it's interesting yeah go to bed think about space very cool.
But if I listen to some gray man before I go to bed, I'm like, I've got to shut this off. Yeah, we don't need that.
We don't need that in the house. Yeah, people getting their fucking eyeballs, like a giant sword shoved through their eyeballs, getting blown up, grenades in their mouth.
Like, hey. Hey.
Hey. Hey, hey, hey.
Do you scroll around? I know you're not supposed to look at your phone before you go to bed. I always just – I like look up ballistics.
My wife is like, what are you doing? And I was like – Well, that's good. That's not social media.
That's good. Well, I do it because I actually think about stuff and it doesn't matter.
I have to look at something that doesn't matter. Like if I look at – good.
Right. Don't check an email.
Right, right, i'll tell my wife she's like hey i got a question for us like the lights are off don't ask questions right now like i'll be all night i'll be thinking of this problem i have to solve yeah so like i'll just sit there i'm like hey i wonder what the ballistic coefficient of a 350 remington magnum is by the way anybody with a beard like yours, I would assume they know the ballistic coefficient of a three-minute attack. It's like, I see a dude

in a beard like that he's kind of jacked i'm like that guy knows how to shoot some things yeah 100 i'm just like oh yeah so you would probably loads his own bullets yeah about a nine inch drop at 300 interesting okay i'll keep that in mind yeah you probably load your own rounds yeah well. Yeah, well, you know.
Yeah, I bet you do.

I get you getting presses.

Pops used to be really, really into that.

Thankfully, I know the guys at Nosler, so they just send me ammo, which is nice.

I've made the mistake of looking at social media before I go to bed, and I get mad, or I get upset, or I get sad, or I find out some weird shit that's going on in the world.

Yeah.

And when I was younger, I'd read things that people would say about me, and I'd be like, my God, like, what is this asshole? That's not true. And you get all upset.
And then I realized like, wait, this is just some person. Like I wouldn't talk to them in real life.
Like what do I get? Why is their opinion more valid? Because it's written down. So then I stopped reading all comments about me and oh my God, it changed everything.
Changed everything. You do the post and ghost, right? Yes.
It's the way to go. I have friends, and they'll come to me.
They'll come to the comedy club or something, and they'll be genuinely emotionally distraught because people are attacking them online. I go, but they're not here.
Like, right here, your friends are here, and you're all freaked out. He goes, I know I've got to stop reading that stuff.
I go, you've got to stop reading that stuff. First of all, it's not true.
You're really funny You're a great guy, right? So it's all bullshit and they don't know you right? So they're just deciding to do this and they know that it fucks with you because you talk openly about it And so now they're gonna accentuate it. They're gonna yeah They're gonna keep jabbing at you.
They got a rock. There's a window They're in the cheap seats for with them in there.
to stop doing that, man. And a few guys have listened to me and a few guys haven't.
And the guys have listened to me. They all say the same thing.
Like, oh, my God, I feel so much better. I'm like, yeah.
Social media is not the problem. The problem is either engaging in the anger and the hate or having reading people's anger and hate towards you and having it fuck your head up.
Like, you think it's something that's like systemic that that is literally spreading and and growing like the people that put that type of trash out all the time and then they think there's some sort of value to that and then other people see it value right they do get engagement right and if you're a person that has like a youtube show where all you do is shit on people you have bad karma for sure sure. For sure you're suffering.
Yeah, but you got to deal with that the rest of your life, like dealing with that poison. Right, but you can make a living doing that.
Like there are guys who make a living doing that. They're all fucked up.
Yeah. I'm not saying there's value in it.
But I do think you make something out. You can create a career doing that.
That's part of the problem is that it's effective right like the trolls yeah like it does get engagement but then you know that you're what kind of engagement are you getting look i have people that hate me online but not the ones who know me right that's what's kind of important yeah the people that know me either in real life or through the podcast know i'm a nice person right i work really hard at it sure i'm actually i try hard to be a nice person it's not like it's a conscious effort i'm good at it i like doing it i like nice people i like makes me feel good yeah so i don't engage i don't fire back at people i don't i don't you know when people get mad at me even celebrities have attacked me online. I'm like, eh.
How does that feel? Like probably being in that world a bit more and then now having people turn on you probably feels strange. Eh.
Perfect. They're just revealing who they are.
They're just weak. They're just weak people.
They're not the type of person. If you did that in front of me when you were around me, we could have a conversation about why I feel like you're incorrect.
And this assumption that you have of me is totally wrong. And also, if you're not talking to someone in person and you're saying something about that person, like, you don't you could just kind of like form some bullshit narrative.
Of course. The person's right there.

They go, that's not true.

So you're saying something.

And if it was true, then you'd be justified in your anger.

But what you're saying is not true.

And you're taking things completely out of context.

And you don't know what you're talking about.

And you're doing this because your life sucks.

And it's the only time you do it.

I've always said, do you think Michael Jordan is posting on YouTube?

Is he making comments?

No. If YouTube was around when Michael Jordan was the king, would he be doing that? No.
He doesn't have time because he's being a winner. Because he's actually winning and doing it.
Yeah. A hundred percent.
Guarantee you, Michael Jordan reads the comments. And if he did read the comments, he would be up all night.
Anger. You know? You saw that Neil Brennan had a bit about Michael Jordan's documentary on his last Netflix special.
It's pretty funny. It's like, unless you want to be the greatest basketball player of all time, he goes, you want, don't hold grudges.
Unless you want to have $150 million worth of passive income every year because it's a fucking silhouette of you dunking. Unless.
Unless. It's a good unless.
But again, those are freaks, right? Yep. These are the outliers.
Yeah. These are the people.
Like, as a rule, as a human being, that's not the way to go. Just insatiable desire to, like, just hammer that nail until it's just so far down in the woods.
You're just like, I don't know what you're doing anymore, but yeah, man. That's how you become the greatest of all time you leave no question it's just the difference between that in uh sport versus that in fighting though is in fighting you could i don't think you can maintain it no like a guy like jordan how long was he in his prime it was a decade right yeah a deck for a decade he was dominating in basketball you can't really do that that in fighting.
John Jones is the only one that's been able to do it.

You think it just takes so much aggression, so much edge, so much damage.

Damage to your body.

The damage to your body is huge because there's so much damage that happens just in training.

Sure.

I mean, John tore his pec off of his fucking shoulder in training.

Yeah, and that wasn't getting hit.

That was wrestling.

Yeah.

And then there's the impacts that you get, and then there's the back stuff. You get thrown weird.
You land on your back weird. You're throwing someone.
A knee hits you weird. Your ribs break all the time.
Hands break all the time. Like common gym injuries, knee blows out, noses.
Everybody everybody's got a broken nose i don't know anybody who does any kind of combat sports that hasn't broken their nose so there's like you after a while you can't breathe out of your nose your nose is destroyed your fucking hand hurts when you try to like open your car door yeah and you have to punch people in the head with it your your knee hurts going downstairs Kamaru Usman you want to hear something crazy when he walks He has to walk backwards downstairs because his knees are so bad Because he can't get the knee over the toe his knee hurt so bad And he's he was a welterweight champion the world with those knees and he was talking about it openly He's like oh, you know, you can know you can know my knees are bad. I'm still going to fuck you up.
And he did. He fucked everybody up forever.
It's coming. Until Leon Edwards.
Dang. But his knees are so bad that he would have to walk on the grass where everybody was like walking on the sidewalk.
Oh, wow. He'd have to go over to walk on the grass because just take a little bit of relief.
Extra cushion. Just something.
Jeez. Yeah.
Bone on bone, man. Yeah.
Bone on bone. Well, it looks like the operators, like, you know, guys are jumping out of.
Oh, yeah. Like, all of them are jacked up.
All of them. And everyone in the strength world, everyone's low back, everyone's shoulder, everyone's knee.
Everyone in jiu-jitsu. Everyone's got a back problem.
Everyone's got a neck problem. It's just part of it.
Everyone blows a knee out. It's part of it.
Yeah. And if, you know, Eddie always used to say, look, you're going to have to get surgery.
Eventually You're going to have to get surgery. Just get the surgery, heal up, come back.
You're not going to stop doing that. Yeah.
Are we rebuilding this engine and keep it racing? Or is this like doing the least as you can to not get surgery? My second surgery, I went to this doctor and when I had a bucket handle meniscus tear, so it would lock. You ever have one of those where it locks out? It was fucking brutal.
And he was like, got to stop doing martial arts i go shut the fuck up i go you don't know what you're talking about i go fix this i go he's like when you're older i'm like yeah when i'm older like right now i'm 30 years old fix my fucking knee i gotta go strangle people what are you talking about yeah what the fuck are you talking about stop doing this i'm not gonna stop doing this same thing i was 22 when i had that. And I had an Olympic trial in two years.
It's too much fun. I was like, yeah, no, no.
Before I went under, I was like, I've squatted this much and I do this. When I come out of it, I expect to be back there.
So fix it like that. Don't fix it like I'm an old guy taking her easy and like I'm young.
I got shit to do. Do they fix it differently depending on who you are? I don't know.
I just felt better about saying it. I'll tell you what, they do get, they got a lot better.
I would assume they would actually fix you. Maybe they wouldn't fix normal people.
Well, I tell everybody, if you have an opportunity to get ACL reconstruction, please at least try the cadaver graft. I know a lot of people want to do that patella tendon graft because you don't have the risk of rejection.
I don't know anybody who's had a rejection from the cadaver. I do know people who have pushed it too hard, too early, and then reblown it.
Because you know how it works? Do you know what happens? I'm not familiar. It's really kind of interesting.
You get this. So my right knee, when I blew my ACL out, they take a cadaver like i have a dead dude's achilles tendon which is much thicker i don't know his name i hope it was a god like francis and god you're like i hope it's some stud just fucking animal just giant viking dude so it's uh it's thicker than the it's 150 stronger than a real acl ah so they screw that in place.
And then it's not like you have this dead guy's thing in there forever. What happens is your body re-proliferates.
It acts as a scaffolding. So it can feel like it's secure, but it's really vulnerable.
So you have to be super careful up until like that six-month mark when it should be re-proliferated. And so does the foreign tissue eventually just kind of get reabsorbed, which is kind of weird? Exactly.
You eat that dead guy's Achilles with your knee. My knee is just munching these dead dude Achilles.
But man, I've had no problems with this knee. That's awesome.
This right knee is amazing. The left knee, I had a patella tendon graft because I had that one done in 93 or 94.
And that one, back then, that's the only way they did it, but it was really good. But it took a long time to heal.
It was a long time before I could kneel down on the ground. Like if I had to kneel down and put my knees on the ground.
Because they take a piece of bone out of your shin and they take a piece of bone out of your kneecap, and then they take a slice out of your patella tendon. They pull that off, and they open you up like a fish, and they fucking drill it into your shin bone and drill it into your fibula.
Love that. Your tibia and your femur, rather.
Yeah. And it's like...
Wrap it over. They get it in there, and then it's like a year before it feels like you could do anything with it It took a while before I felt like I really trusted it But I do have to say I was not as diligent with my rehabilitation back then as I was When I got this one done with this one I was I rehabbed it all myself I didn't I went to like one or two of these things like they're just showing me things already know how to do I'm like I know what to do.
just going to do this and do it all day. So I was doing bodyweight squats like all day long.
Yeah. And I got it to six months later I was training again.
Full blast. No problems.
Were you doing any like the BPCs or any of the peptides? There was nothing available back then. Oh, well back then.
So this was 2003 that I got this one done. Nice.
And this was the Patella Tending. This was the cadaver rather.
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Recovery would have worked for us, like with all these dings and injuries, because I've had a couple, I'm sure you probably have too, a couple of friends that got surgery. Actually, the doctor hit them, side injection and even IV with BPC-157 during the reattachment of a pec or a bicep.
Super legit. It's super legit along with TB-500.
Apparently, that combination of those two together is the most effective. Yeah.
Super effective. And, um, you know, there's a lot of people that resist that for some strange reason.
I don't know. Uh, I think, I think there's a bit of ego involved in not knowing something when you're an expert.
Um, I find that with, uh, there's a real problem with, unfortunately, some orthopedic surgeons. Aaron Rodgers was explaining this to me,

that his doctors were telling him not to do stem cells after he got his Achilles fixed. He's like, what are you talking about? Like, shut the fuck up.
And so, of course, he did stem cells. And, of course, he went to ways to well.
And, of course, he was back three months earlier than they thought he could yeah you know there was like some real thought at the end of that season that he was probably going to be able to play yeah where everybody's like this is nuts like nobody recovers from this stuff but he was very smart and he didn't push it too far yep and he waited until actually follow brigham and yeah all this stuff but yeah stem cells work there's a reason why you have to go down to tijuana to get the good ones because it's ones because they fucking work. Like anything that works.
It's like you're not allowed to do it anymore. Biden.
Really helped us out on that. The steroid thing in 91, that cocksucker.
He really did. I was talking to a strength conditioning professional the other day at the administrative level.
We were just talking about different things going on. I said, yeah.
I said, there's people, in my opinion in your world that that don't know about bpc 157 he didn't know about bpc and i'm just like crazy and i'm like okay i was taking it eight years ago but you know what it is though it's like they don't continue to learn that was my degree and then they're in practice all day they're constantly working on people yep people are coming in the door this guy blew his ankle out this guy's got a fucking blown shoulder yeah yeah but and i said the weird part is is is you have a strength conditioning professional and and in some ways there's more information cutting edge on a podcast from guys that are interested in training right there are from like the the the you know and i'm just like hey guys just just open the scope a little bit. Well, there's enough of these guys that are super smart and also jacked, like these Andrew Huberman guys.
Yeah. And super smart guys that are in the bodybuilding world.
Sure. Super smart guys like Derek from More Plates, More Gates.
He's the best example because he's just a fucking encyclopedia of data and studies and efficacy and how you combine things together. And he actually runs a clinic.
So he really knows what he's doing. So you get the boots on the ground.
You see it in real time. Yeah.
My doc is Eric Serrano. I don't know if you know Doc Serrano.
He's up in Columbus. But, you know, everyone has gone to him over the last 30 years.
But he's one of those dudes that has like a basement gym. Columbus, Ohio? Columbus, Ohio, yeah.
Oh, that's where Louie was. Exactly.
He was Louie's doctor. Ah! So, yeah, he was Louie's.
He was, you know, you go through all professional baseball. It's like, okay, got it, tracking.
He's one of the rare guys that we went to him to do a podcast. How was that? Oh, it was awesome.
Did you go to Bob Evans with him? uh no we just we we hung out in his gym yeah you know and he uh he just was introducing me to a bunch of freaks and showing me all the stuff that he invented and why he invented it so cool louis simmons he was the fucking man he was so funny he was so funny he was such a character he was telling me about how he got his shoulder blown got his shoulder uh replaced and then it immediately when he got back to the gym they made him max out and bench and I was like what are you talking about you need to recover they were like don't be a pussy you have to max out I was there in 2002 and so Louie and his wife Doris you always meet the Bob Evans in the morning and he would eat and do the whole deal and he was telling me a story about how he had a he got pissed off and he put something in his cell phone and he threw it out the window while he was driving. And then so he didn't have a cell phone for a couple weeks.
And then he got to the gym and he missed a lift and he punched his own tooth out, punched himself so hard he knocked his own tooth out and then took a wire brush that you like clean the chalk out of a barbell and smashed himself on the head.

And he was just pouring.

His wife was like, yeah, Lou was pouring blood and he knocked the tooth out.

And I'm just thinking, Westside was awesome.

Holy crap.

So I got talking to him and he was like, no biceps.

Yeah.

Right.

Cause he blew them out.

I just never got it fixed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A lot of those guys same.

Yeah.

It's wild.

But he was like, yeah, those cats would, they'd fight.

And he goes, we would literally like, is there some, some, some lot of those guys, same. Yeah, it's wild.
But he was like, yeah, those cats would, they'd fight. And he goes, we would literally, like, because there's some tuned up dudes in there.
And he said that we would just literally kick them out the door. If they were fighting on the floor, we would kick them out of the way so they were out of the way of the monolith so we could keep squatting.
Like, every 30 seconds you're up or 90 seconds, whatever. It's like, I don't care if you're each other with stuff move the next guy up and like this place is wild they created some fucking animals here's a wild story so we were there and uh this this drunk chick came in she was like because this was the old west side it was like in this little shopping center with the windows were all blacked out and everything it was pretty dope and this drunk chick walked and she's like hi y'all working out here and she was tuned man she was like all sloppy like legit street person right and i'm like oh this is gonna go bad like i'm just i'm just reading the room right like this is it was not a lot of estrogen in that room right so i'm like oh man this is gonna be bad louis like hey come here come here come here so he puts a weight vest on her and then puts a second weight so 25 20 50 pound weight vest and takes her outside wraps a belt around her waist with a sled and had her walking doing sled pulls back and forth with a weight 50 pounds of weight vest on her shoulders drunk drunk as shit i'm just like i'm just like watch i'm like what she comes back in he's like all right come over here he puts her on the monolith two red bands it was maybe just the bar wasn't a lot of weight on that and had her doing speed box squats eight sets of two for speed it was teaching her how to box squat she finally stumbles out and just leaves and like later on i'm like lou did you know that girl he goes no i'm like she was just some random street person and you had her squatting he goes shit half the people in this room were that person a year ago i'm like oh he goes she could be world champion you never know wow and i was just like that that that's what a crazy mentality that stuck with me for so long he's like most of these people are broken and they have some addictive thing and something and he goes if they could channel it into something that might be the next world champion and i don't know if you ever saw her again or if I was just there that one day and it stuck with me for 22 years and I just thought about that I'm like he put his money where his mouth was he was a coach and he wanted to see what could what could someone do you know that's so interesting because one of the guys who trained with Louis was Matt the Immortal Brown Matt the Immortal Brown I know he did some training with him and I've always said that there's something about guys that used to be Addicts that have like died and Matt died and it's been a few guys I know that that came back from that they were the scariest fucking people because they had crossed over and then they realized There's a good addiction the good addiction is to training.
Yep. Just be completely addicted to training.
Yeah. Those are some of the fucking scariest.
It was wild. I mean, I knew a lot of those guys from that world and a lot of them are addicted to different stuff.
And unfortunately, they get into training and then if they get out of it, it kind of that addiction might come back. That happens with fighters when they retire.
And then also they're generally dealing with some issues mentally from impacts. And so a lot of those guys start drinking.
They start doing coke. I always loved how Louie just saw it differently.
And my dad was the same way. Like he used to always say, look for something not of what it is but what what it can be.
And that meant human potential.

That meant designs.

That meant like application of stuff.

And it's just like, yeah, that person's whatever.

But if you push and you tweak and you push and you tweak,

there might be something in there that's like super beautiful and awesome.

But you never know if you just said that's a drunk chick that walked in the gym.

Well, it's crazy with him because he's actually done it a bunch of times and it worked.

Right.

Weird.

So this attitude is developed over time to just accept the fact that this person might come in 16 cores lights deep dude just just tuned just tuned you know but buddy of mine he he trained at west side and he said i mean half the time he said there's he's like i've seen bench 700 pounds like on acid, like just freaked out of their mind. It's just like wild stuff.
And I'm like, holy cow. Like that whole world is wild.
Yeah. Like you had an old.
I mean, that whole world like is so extreme. Right.
The fighting world, the lifting, the throwing, like dudes who do some pretty wild stuff. Yeah, well, and whenever you get like these male oriented alpha characters that all get together and they're all butting heads and trying to figure out who's the baddest motherfucker around them.
They also develop like a culture of like acceptance of certain aspects of life that come like the injuries and pain and suffering. And, you know, like wrestlers, they're they like brag on suffering the most they want to suffer more than anybody they're like that's the badge of honor is what time did you get up 4 30 i was on my 14th mile at 4 30 you know like yeah just drag you into deep water let's just make it worse that's the part of the culture of wrestling is embracing the grind that's the whole thing it's like being guy who can push, being that Cam Haynes motherfucker that does those 340-mile runs.

Because I think I've read before, is this accurate, that the highest winning percentage in the UFC were all from the wrestling background?

Is that accurate?

I'd probably say that's probably accurate.

I think if you had to say, like, what's the back?

I've always said that's the foundation of martial arts because the wrestler can decide where the fight takes place a wrestler uh generally mentally they're going to be tougher because they went through the hardest thing when they were a child the hardest thing as a child is wrestling you're starving yourself when you're growing you know you're dehydrating yourself before matches you're training and competing dehydrated. You're in a when you're growing.
You're dehydrating yourself before matches.

You're training and competing dehydrated. You're in a fucking hot room clashing with other alpha males, and you're throwing each other around.
It's just the hardest thing. You can staff infections every once in a while.
But that skill is so important, the skill to be able to manipulate bodies and take them down. And if you could teach a wrestler jujitsu, oh my god, they're so much better at it because they're just so accustomed.
They just have to learn a new series of movements to go with this skill set that they already – they're great at controlling bodies. Yeah, and just the proximity.
People aren't good with being all up in people and they're like, yeah, I live here. They live there.
And then the other thing is, if you could teach a wrestler how to strike, they have such an advantage because you can't take them down, and you're worried about them taking you down, so that opens you up to certain shots. It happens all the time where guys are worried about a takedown, and they get blasted because they're thinking, this guy could take me down at any moment, and then you get hit.
It's like another element that they put in that you have to you have to deal with that they don't have to deal with they're not worried about you taking them down you're not even going to try so they don't they can be completely relaxed with their takedown defense so then yes horrible being there with an elite wrestler is fucking horrible i've even seen like elite wrestlers even in business and stuff like that you could always it always feels like they're trying to shoot in on you. Right.
They're looking for the weakness trying to shoot in. You're like, ah, this is just kind of in you, huh? Well, they also know that they can.
Right. You're walking around knowing that you can pick up any guy you want and dump him on his head.
Yeah. And most likely, they have no say in it.
Like, there's nothing they can do. You don't get a vote.
Yeah, man. If you're like, if you're around a judo black belt and you're wearing a winter coat, you might as well have a hammer like right above your head.
Cause that guy's just going to use that coat and slam you into the concrete. You're basically helpless.
Yeah. If you don't know judo and you tangle up with like a real judo black belt, you're going to fly through the air and you're going gonna land on the ground with all of his weight and your weight on top of you and even if you don't bang your head your your whole body's gonna be out of air you're not gonna you don't know how to land no you're gonna land especially when a guy's controlling oh and he's gonna shoulder right into you as he lands boom you're fucked yeah so that guy's gonna look at every person like meat yeah yeah yeah i i never realized how effective a gi choke was until hoist gi choked me it was my first ever i was like yeah i'll try jujitsu and he did like a clinic he's like come on up for this thing and my buddy is on me trying to do the thing and then i thought hoist put me in like the remember the old thing with like the paper cutters oh yeah pretty sure that was what he has for a forearm way different yeah my big buddy that's my size hoist is way different than that it's leverage and technique i was it's tying that shoe it was like his arm made with scissors it was just like this is amazing like to see perfection, right? Yeah.
Well, that's the other thing about coats and jackets or even a hoodie. You could choke someone so easy with a hoodie.
Really? Just get your thumbs in deep and squeeze a jacket. Yeah, you could choke the shit out of somebody if you grab somebody with a hoodie and just drew them in.
Especially like, I said, a leather coat. Like a leather coat or a winter coat.
Yeah. You get a a good grip a jean jacket I choked the fuck out of somebody with a jean jacket you got top and bottom denim Jay Leno you're in trouble that jean shirt that thing's durable you want some shit that tears easy like you want a shirt that already has cuts in it You're pretty loaded.
You should like below the back your shirt make some cuts in it Just in case someone grabs you Yeah, because uh someone can just grab your t-shirt There's actually a Gracie self-defense thing that was on that I was looking at the other day It was a really smart move where this woman was showing that you can grab a hold of someone's T-shirt if you're a woman and you're getting attacked by a man. Just grabbing a hold of their T-shirt and then getting your legs around their neck.
No way. And you're jamming their carotid arteries through your thumb while you're holding a T-shirt and squeezing with your legs.
You could put a guy out, especially a guy that doesn't know what's happening and doesn't know how to protect himself. I don't know how to do that.
That's not it. But it was – she was on her back.
It was on YouTube. I tried to move like that one time.
I was goofing around with my buddy. We call him the cyborg.
He's an absolute just monster of a human. And he and I were goofing around and I was on my back.
And so I of like got him the little, like, like a leg scissors on his head and I grabbed his arm. I'm like, I'm going to pull his arm off.
Like I'm a big, strong deadlifter. I'm like, I got him.
I finally got him. He was two 90, six, two, two 90, all app looked like Gordon, but like bigger and stronger.
And he literally just, I thought he was going out and he kind of went and woke up and he picked me up while i was hanging out and then just slammed me down on the ground like man screw this yeah you can't do people could do that to people like no no one could stand up with a person hanging off them and slam them back you gotta hook his leg you gotta i didn't i didn't know that yeah i just got clobbered you want to see the worst worst version of that? Rampage Jackson versus Ricardo Arona.

Did you ever see that in Pride?

It's the worst case scenario of holding on to like a triangle while a guy picks you up.

And Rampage in his prime was a fucking machine.

He was so powerful.

So he takes this dude who's 200 plus pounds, hoists him over his head, and slams him down like a pillow. So look at this.
So he's caught in the triangle. Watch how Rampage does this.
Bro, that was one of the worst KOs in the history of the sport. I mean, that dude definitely could have died.
He probably got the worst trauma, the worst brain trauma. Did he knee himself in the face too? I think Rampage collided heads with him as well.
So it was probably a bunch of shit. Yeah, like all kinds.
I think right there is squashed his guts. Yeah, hit his shoulder.
But Rampage's head went into his. This is a crazy slam, man.
Look at that. Mine was not nearly as devastating, but it was enough to maybe not want to do that again.
That was the worst. And this guy was never the same again.
Ricardo Arona was never the same again. That is such a crazy.
Look at the G-forces. So that all could have been avoided.
Like, that's not what you do. When you have a triangle, if you see a guy posturing up, you immediately go under.
Oh, okay. Come loxie, man.
If he's got you in the air, you let go of of the fucking triangle the thing that's holding him in there was him he's holding himself in there yes he was the he wanted all because sometimes you can keep it right sometimes you can keep a triangle and you get slammed and it just makes the triangle tighter but you gotta know when you're way up in the air you gotta let go yeah you gotta fully let go and then try to sprawl something has to happen you have to disrupt this motion yeah this thing that's happening turning yourself the best way is an underhook like as soon as you feel like he starts to stand up you hook the leg and worst case scenario you transition to a leg bar you let go of the triangle you you get control that leg and use that leg either to try to submit him or sweep him but you can never hold on to a triangle if the guy's standing up it's just that fucking concrete you're done you're dead you're done your head is pulverized yeah it was bad enough on turf but i won't do that again that was like you know there's a little bit of springiness to the ground because it's in a ring still. And there's probably a certain amount of padding on the surface.
How hard are those rings? And I've walked around on them. There's a little bit.
Like the UFC has a small amount of foam, like a padding. And it's very important, really, because, you know, guys' heads bounce off.
And they get head kicked. They fall down.
Their heads bounce off. They get hit with a big right hand or something.
You bounce your head. So you can't have a real hard floor.
Yeah. But it's not soft enough where you want John Jones power slamming you.
No, not really any day. No days, actually.
That's crazy. Yeah.
I mean, to be one of those people that make a living doing that, that is a wild way to go. Yeah.
What happened where that decided, like, that that was the direction they were going to go? You're like, you know what? I'm going to get the crap beat out of me and dole out a lot of pain and see how this shakes out. Or do you just kind of, like, wake up one day and you're in that world.
You're like, I'm pretty good. Well, you're probably a wild person to begin with.

And you're probably excited by dangerous, scary things.

And you're probably pretty good at it, which is why you're fighting professionally.

Yeah.

So you're probably trained in the gym and you realize you're better than most people.

Maybe a few amateur fights and fuck a few people up and go, you know, I think I'm the fucking man.

You start believing in him.

Yeah.

And some of them are right.

Yeah.

Some of them are John Jones.

That's the thing.

You figure that out.

Every now and then.

Every now and then a guy is correct.

Like that's the way he should have went.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Definitely.

Dang.

Fucking everybody up.

Yeah.

Everybody.

Belly.

It's okay.

You were talking about first.

So Tyson.

Yeah.

That's my heavyweight.

That's my heavyweight all-timer.

John Jones for UFC. He's the guy that's like, I feel like Tyson in his prime, you have to have him on the Mount Rushmore.
You want to have Jack Dempsey. You want to have Joe Frazier.
I mean, it's like a lot of guys who are really good. It's hard to say, like Muhammad Ali, Joe Lewis, Rocky Marciano.
There's a lot of like, for me, the one that you can't remove is Tyson. Right.
So there's a bunch of other ones. Lennox Lewis in his prime was fucking amazing.
Larry Holmes doesn't get the credit he deserves in his prime. There's a lot of guys who are really good heavyweight champions, but you have to have Tyson.
Everything else is negotiable. Tyson has to be there in my mind.
Yeah. You know, different people disagree.
Do you watch other sports besides fighting sports or combat sports? I watch a little football. Yeah, I've been watching football lately.
I enjoy it. It's fun.
Pro or college? I watch high school. Yeah, right.
I watch college and I watch pro. I went to an NFL game the first time this year.
Kind of cool. It was fun.
Yeah, I saw the Jets play the Cowboys down at Dallas. That was wild.
It's wild when you see the scale of it, the scale of it, the size of the arena. You've been in many college games before? A few.
A few UT games. Oh, you were in UT, right? Yeah, that was fun.
I got to shoot the cannon at UT. Oh, nice.
That was fun. Isn't it crazy? Have you been keeping up with the NIL and all the transfer portals and how that's changed the landscape? I have not.
What is that? What are you saying? NIL is oh that right the money thing yeah the money thing is crazy well they should have been paying those fucking kids a long ass time well they should retroactively pay all those kids that'll be interesting they should they should they were making money off of them it's crazy how much money they make the amount of money that's this happening now it's interesting because like it actually from a couple of my friends that are in that world it creates a different um conversation with the new kids because let's say in high school they're you know they're bringing in these recruits and everything like that and everyone is kissing their butt hey man they're like hey we really want you to be here we want you to be a whatever pay me bitch and now it's turning into pay me right and but then the other side of the i want a corvette oh that's dude i have friends that tell me that there are there are athletes who when they're coming to a recruiting trip say if there's not a quarter million dollar signing bonus as just a part of the deal i'm not getting on the plane for the recruiting trip wow an 18 or 17 year old kid saying that that's balls but meanwhile they're. You know who else should be doing that? The fucking Olympics.
The fucking Olympics. They should all say, fuck you, pay me.
They really should. That's the greatest scam in all of competitive sports.
Well, now they can now. I mean, the Olympic Committee, but originally it was amateur, which was sucked.
Well, they can. Meanwhile, what you you mean is like the NBA players can represent the United States and play in the Olympics.

That's cute.

But what about the swimmers?

What about the people?

What about the gymnasts?

What about the boxers?

Those fucking all those people should get paid.

Yeah.

Every single one of them.

And no one really cares about Olympic athletes, but every four years.

Right.

A buddy of mine won the 2004 shot put Olympics.

And he was like, I still have to ask my mom for money.

Wow.

Thank you. Like a buddy of mine won the shoot, the 2004 shot put Olympics.
And he was like, I still have to ask my mom for money. He's like, because no one cares about the Olympics, but every four years.
And you're like, you have a degree at Dartmouth, a business degree, and you're the Olympic champion. And he was the first athlete to ever eBay himself.
So he had a shirt that says, This Space for Rent. And so he put himself on the market.
It was kind of like the first NL. It was like, hey, man, I have to make money throwing this steel ball.
And I'm 30-something years old. I'm a world champion, and I still have to ask for money every four years, or for three.
They used to do that with the UFC. You used to be able to have sponsors.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Anything you want, like Condom Depot and your shorts.
How about those old days like Tank Abbott and all those guys? I used to love watching all that. When I was in college, we'd be like, get it, pay-per-view, and check it out.
Yeah, man. That's the dark days.
The early days. Those were...
No one knew what was going on. No one really knew what was effective.
You saw some people were effective one way way and you thought that's the way to go. Yeah.
It was kind of like when you're in high school when you would go sneak out of the house and go watch Faces of Death. Oh, yeah.
And it was like, wow, this is like a cool thing. It's like the UFC.
Kids will never understand how difficult it was to see fucked up things when we were young. It was hard.
Really hard. You had to try hard.
You had to like know somebody. You had no older kids.
That guy had to know somebody in the city. Someone had some dark warehouse that had a copy of some barnyard Betty video.
It's always weird. Yeah, no, it's just like, yeah, you rode your bike all around and you like find some weird wood pile.
I remember when we were kids, someone had a video. I think it was like a barnyard Betty type video.
Like when them ladies have sex a bunch of animals And one of us had to watch the door So if we if we had a video like that we're playing the basement One of us had it had to go up to the top of staircase and wait by the door so that no one could just open the door And then they open the door you would pretend like I was just coming through the door You know, so like you hold it on the door so they can't get in like oh, sorry Oh, sorry, and then the kids downstairs would hear that it popped the tape out and pretend they're you know playing Atari or sorry You gotta pop that fucking tape out quick because mom caught you down there watching a chick blow a German Shepherd Yeah, that didn't't pan out. And they were like real grainy, like copies of copies.
You know, like two guys get together with two VCRs and they record tapes. Oh, yeah, with all the weird.
You have to get the. Yeah, you had the cables in the back.
So was that. You live in the city growing up? I lived in the suburbs.
I lived in Newton. Newton is a suburb of Massachusetts.
Okay. Boston.
Yeah. Did you live in New Jersey at one point? Yeah, that's where I was born.
Oh, yeah. So was my dad.
What part? Hillside. Have you seen all these UFOs in New Jersey lately? No.
Yeah, like over the last few days, there's been this steady stream. They're not UFOs.
They're drones. Oh, I did see something.
I think you posted something about the drones or something, right? I don't think I did. Somebody did.

But a lot of people have been.

But they're not moving in any extraordinary way. They look like drones.
They do. It just looks like a bunch of assholes, thinks it's fun to put drones up everywhere.
But now there's all this weird mythology attached to it where the governor was saying sometimes as soon as we put eyes on them, they take off. but if I was a UFO though if I was an alien

and I knew that a bunch of people are trying to be smart asses yeah and they're putting these drones in the sky i'd be like perfect time to visit oh yeah these dipshits won't know the difference yeah i don't have to use my cloaking technology i could just fly over their head they're gonna assume this is more nonsense dude my uh one of my buddies he probably weird even say like he had a friend that sent him a video of some weird stuff going on in the desert whatever and it went through and then he showed it to me and then it just disappeared and he was like the the dude he was talking to said it disappeared but then like can you have a file that kind of self-destructs? Because it disappeared on his phone, too. He's like, how do they take this off of my phone? I don't know.
I mean. I've never heard of a file.
Jamie, have you ever heard of a video file that self-destructs? That's like some Mission Impossible shit. Yeah, so one could chirp into it and like it was wild like he was like that like this this recording would destroy yeah yeah exactly in 30 seconds yeah that was wow i mean i've wondered though like could they somehow backtrack it where it had been shared well that would be problematic because then they would have access to things on your phone i I doubt that's ever a case.
More likely would be they put like a time that someone could watch the video into the video where it's probably still fixable if someone still has it. Well, this dude took the video.
And did it on his phone? And did it on his phone and shared it. And then he said one day he just looked into it, looked in his phone, it was might be retarded well that could be the case but my buddy's like yourself my phone too yeah i don't know man be retarded too uh it's hard to say it might be real though i've never heard of that happening though which i would assume that i would have heard of something like that especially the amount of people that i talked to that are in the ufo world excuse me a a thread on Reddit about a glitch in iOS 17 that might have made some people's videos randomly disappear.
Important ones that they wanted. Right.
And then they think it's the UFOs. That makes sense.
Oh, yeah. This doesn't say anything about that.
This is just like, why is this happening? Is this happening to anybody else? Okay. Google this.
Is it possible to make a self-destructing video That only has a certain amount of plays in it. Well, that'd be cool Right like if maybe you could code it into the video that yeah once this video plays for you know, whatever 14 minutes 14 minutes of play it automatically 17 decodes times.
Decodes itself. You know, it randomizes its path.
Because it's basically just information, right? Right. Information viewed through a codec.
Does that have like a cyclical rate like this many times? Because I know there's certain things like someone will send you something on Instagram and you can watch the video, but then you can't go back and watch it again.

Right.

Or they send you a voice message and then it just – And it goes away. Yeah.
Yeah. That's how Alex Jones likes to roll.
He sends you voice messages and they go away. That's probably a really good idea.
For him. Yeah.
Smart move. Best not to have a paper trail.
I don't even know like how much of that encrypted messaging stuff works. You know, I when tucker was saying that he was organizing that meeting with putin in russia and that the government called him up because they knew that he was meeting putin because they had access to his signal and he's like what you have access to i didn't know even though someone could get into my signal i thought that was encrypted nope nope they can get in Nope.
They can get in there. So it's like how much of this stuff is really – how much of it is really encrypted and protected and how much would they even let you know if they can break it? Why would they even tell you? Well, that's the whole point.
It's like it's exactly what you would say that you couldn't do it. Exactly.
Yeah. That's – But that was – they fucking spilled the beans.
Right. So once they spilled the beans, like I know a lot of people, including Elon Musk, started questioning Signal.
Sure. So I talked to someone in the government, and I said, can you handle Signal? Like, how does someone, as long as the state actor knows the phone number was the answer.
So all they have to do is know your phone number. So if they know your phone number and you have signal.
Game over, boys. If you're, you know, I mean, I'm sure it's probably they probably need to ask somebody if they can do it.
It's probably not something they can just do. But if an agent is like, Bert Soren's acting a little fucking fishy.
Let's see what he's signaling to his friends. Yeah.
And the opportunity to just decide subjectively if that's a thing. And then whatever you carry in your notes and whatever is in your folders or your photos.
They're going to do all kinds of ballistics. For sure.
They've got all this weird crap. They're going to know where my deer stands are and everything.
You got dick pics? They got dick pics. All of it.
They have your dick pics. It's like there's no way around that anymore.
I think that's a myth. The idea that somehow or another you could have some sort of a protection from that happening today.
Yeah. Are you making phone calls? You are.
Okay. Are you on a network? Are you on Wi-Fi? Are you like – I think you're fucked.
Yeah. You would have to think so.
Yeah. I think you're fucked.
I mean, you'd have to think there's enough back doors and alleged probable causes or however someone wants to spin it. Well, that's also how they got Huawei banned from the United States.
Because I remember, you know, I'm a bit of a phone nerd. And back in the day, Huawei had the best phones.
Their phones were like way more advanced than some of the american android phones that were coming out yeah man they had incredible cameras and like big battery life and like crazy zoom possibilities and i was looking to get this new huawei phone sure and then huawei got banned from the united states and i was like what goes back to anything that's banned man makes you really start questioning it does but when they kind of all agree there was very little push pushback that there was real security problems with these phones and not just phones but network devices routers um different different um components that had third-party entrance so it was they had the capability of accessing information that's being transferred back and forth on a network through these routers and then I think people like hey why is that in there yeah and then they realize oh the Chinese government is in complete cahoots with Huawei like if you own a company like, you're down with the government. You have to be.
That's how you stay in business. Right.
You can't be some rebel out there operating on your own, making billions of dollars, creating, you know. Yeah.
Well, you had Mike Bent. Was it Ben's? Yes.
That was a wonderful podcast. Crazy.
Holy crap. Yeah.
Eye opening. Yeah.
I spun that past a couple of my buddies. i actually it was the same buddy that gave me the yuri bezmanoff video that i gave you oh that fucking videos changed my mind right yeah when you first sent me that you're the first guy by the way ladies and gentlemen because we played that on this podcast like all the time yeah we were at your house yeah when you played me that i was me that, I was like, holy shit, this is exactly what happened.

Yep.

I gave it to Jack Carr and Evan Hafer, too.

There's no way that was a coincidence.

Like, he just guessed it.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

You're like, I'm going to put this next baseball into the third aisle up the thing and crack.

Wow, that was cool.

Fourth seat from the left.

Yeah, you're like, go back and look.

So a buddy of mine that's in that world, he gave that to me four or five years ago he told me he's like this keeps getting deleted and he kind of gives me the whole briefing on a lot of stuff getting deleted from yeah off youtube he's like they keep taking it down no i think honestly prior to you and evan and jack and guys like that it was not easy to find i think you guys just changed the algorithm. Wow.
Which is pretty neat. But that doesn't make any sense because I'm pretty sure we just found it online.
We just found it on YouTube. He told me multiple times, he's like, they've taken this down often.
Why would someone take it down? I'm not sure. But I know some of my buddies that were in the teams and stuff like that, they were like, oh, I remember seeing this back in 95 in 95 when i went through buds or when i got maybe it was green team but they were in that early early days like oh i hadn't seen this video in forever and then they kind of watched it like oh my gosh like you're kind of getting all the background of that but he's he was giving me i can't remember i was going with this but he was giving me some insight oh about the bends and uh it was interesting and i said i was like hey did you check this out and he's like yeah he's like sounds like he's read a couple of my briefings i was like interesting like mike bends some weird stuff got crazy recall too oh my gosh yeah he just no notes just spitting out all that information right off the top of his head that's you've had some amazingly impactful guests on here like i i'm not trying to blow you up but like i'm sure you know the impact that you've had on the world which is probably really wild it's pretty weird pretty weird right pretty weird that i didn't even try that's the best part about it right that's the weirdest part it was all an accident it's like 100 like i just felt like this is what i should do.
I should start a podcast and then I should keep doing it. Even when it was totally non-profitable for like five years, I was like, I like doing it.
Let's just keep doing it. That's how all the good stuff works.
Yeah. It's like you're passionate about it.
I want to go do this thing. You know, Evan and I have talked.
He's like, hey, I make brown water. And I'm like, I make steel rectangles.
It's weird. I don't know why we we decided to do it but once you figure out a thing that you're really passionate about then you'll become successful if you just keep following it yeah but the thing about the podcast thing was um i managed to keep the same spirit of just doing what i enjoy doing yes like if i could just have conversations with people with no phones and sit, and especially if I could get a scientist to sit in here and explain things to me for three hours, I would have always been interested in doing that.
But I just, you can't do that. They won't do it.
Right, right. You have to become friends with them and you can only be friends with so many of them, you know, and then you have to fly to them and sit down with them.
Yeah, you spend all this time. And then you're like, you created a honey trap here.

Then you're like, hey, I'll bring everyone here and talk to them. Well, as long as you can guarantee other people are going to listen, people want to talk about anything, which is really weird.
It's wild. Like that's the way you can guarantee that you can get them to come as long as they're going to – other people are going to hear it.
Right. So then they get to sell books.
Yeah, the whole deal. Yeah, and it's great.
But it's just genius that I just appreciate the illumination on varied ideas. Like I love that there's people on the right, people from left, people that like this, hate this.
Like that is so refreshing. It's good for all of us too.
It is. It's good to hear people even that you don't agree with.
Of course. As long as they're nice.
That's my course. I don't want to argue with anybody and get in fucking screaming matches.
There's some people that are, like we were talking about earlier, that that's how they get engagement by constantly getting in these. That's why they have those shows.
Like, Piers Morgan likes to do that, whereas, like, four people on the show, they all yell over each other. And they're all remote, so no one's there.
It's like, ugh, that sounds horrible. It's horrible.
I don't find out nothing. If you could sit down with someone, even if you disagree with them and just let them talk, you could have a conversation, you know, find out why they think the way they do.
You don't have to fight them on it. Just like ask them, what is it about this thing? Yeah.
Candid and curious. Yeah.
Candid as in I'll actually tell you what I think and curious, I'll actually care what you think. Yeah.
And I always try to think the way they think. If someone's talking to me about a certain thing, like I will, you know, people are, oh, you'll agree with anybody.
I'm like, I kind of will if I can try to see things through your head and I'll try to steel man it for you Like if someone is saying something and I go okay, so you're saying that but if it's preposterous I'll stop it. I'll stop and go that doesn't make any sense because of this Like I can see that you haven't thought this through because or you didn't know about that or you know, right? How could you say this when this is possible? Like how do manage those two things? And so few people will push back with kind of love, right? Because disagreement doesn't have to mean dismissal.
No. And when it does, that's the opposite of love and respect.
It's like, no, I don't like you. Well, that's canceling.
Well, especially if people get shouty and arguey. You know, it's like there's a way to do it where you can just talk about stuff and not be dismissive of someone.
I mean, I see so many people do it where they have their opinion, like Bill Marlach's do that, like dismiss something someone saying like instantaneously as they're in the middle of explaining it. It's like, it's kind of a sparring thing.
You know, you're trying to win rather than trying to just have a conversation. Try to see if the other guy flinches.

Yeah, you're shutting him down.

You're shutting down things you think you're calling bullshit. It's also a lack of patience, right? Because sometimes you have to have patience to let someone express themselves fully before you disagree, which is really important.
Because sometimes someone will begin to express themselves and I disagree. but then they'll take it around and give me some nuance and some understanding of how they came to their opinion.
Then I'll go, okay. Okay.
So I see how you- At least I see the track. Yeah.
And so it's more important for you for this than it is to acknowledge that. And they're like, yes.
I'm like, okay, I understand. So when did you decide that that was- And then I want to go like – I want to know, are you a real thinker or are you a person who has adopted a conglomeration of ideas that comes along with an ideology? So there's really smart people that have done that.
And they might not even know they've done that until you corner them. And then you find like – Where did it – where's the origin? Trans kids.
There's like occasionally, you know, there's a subject like, make sense of this. You make sense of this.
Right. Yeah.
Follow it upstream to the source and then go. Make sense of this.
And let's acknowledge what a kid is. I want to know how vulnerable you think children are.
First of all, I want to know, do you have any? Second of all, I want to know how malleable and suggestible, like how open to suggestion are children in your eyes? I want to know how – do you think kids should be able to get tattoos? Do you think kids should be able to get married at five? Do you think kids should – you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Do you think they should be – what do you think that they can control and that not control? Do you even understand children or are you sacrificing them and their future, these kids don't even know for your ideology for your ideological position that's like cult-like and then you find that out about people that think they're intelligent until they're confronted with these like insurmountable ethical dilemmas right a similar one to let's say someone who eats meat but hates hunting You're like, you could hate – you could not want to do it.
Right. A similar one to, let's say, someone who eats meat but hates hunting.

Yes.

You're like, you could hate – you cannot want to do it.

Yes.

But there's still a killing and a murder at some point, and you could either be a part of that or just outsource it.

Yeah.

And be okay with it.

Well, it's also – that's a cultural thing too, right?

Yeah.

Like there's a lot of people in the UK that don't like hunting.

Yeah.

And they eat meat.

And, you know, they'll tell you. Like my wife was having a conversation.
She was at a dinner with a bunch of people and I was out hunting. And this guy was eating a steak.
He's like, that's deplorable. She's like, where do you think that came from? This is so stupid.
Like you're literally carving a steak while you're saying it's deplorable that someone's out hunting. Like we eat those animals.
And what is generally, and I've had this conversation a number of times as well. And generally if folks are candid, curious, and respectful, you can kind of bring them around, right? Yes.
Have you had someone that really just dug their heels in or like – No. No, never really in person.
Right. Online they'll dig their heels in until the cows come home.
But I feel like most people – this is why talking online sucks. Yep.
Most people are good people. I really believe that.
Even if they're like trapped in their bullshit and wrapped up in their own head and most people want to be – If given the chance to be good people. Yeah.
And you can kind of help them along to be a good person. You can kind of help them along.
They help each other along. You know? Like part of an argument is you.
Sure. Like it's – I know that there's arguments that I've been in in my life that I could have avoided If I was more skillful with conversation and I know that I have avoided a lot of arguments Especially now as a smarter person than I was when I was younger.
I'm better at it I'm better at just like not biting on some bullshit Bullshit passiveive stupid thing that some guy says When I was young if someone got passive-aggressive with me, I like hey fuck you yeah, like like let's just go to where's that going? Let's just go to 10. Yeah, I don't like how you're talking like I'm not gonna sit here this stupid party and pretend You're not a cunt and you know, there's been many times You know, I got dragged out of a situation before that accelerates yeah Yeah, because I'm like, let's just go to 10.
You're a a cunt. And, you know, there's been many times, you know, I got dragged out of a situation before things got really...
That accelerates things. Yeah.
Because I'm like, let's just go to 10. You're a piece of shit.
Like, I know what you are. Yeah.
You're just a shitty person who likes to throw jabs at people when I'm just trying to be nice. Yeah.
And you also know in your pocket, you know a lot of physical things that could be... That helps.
...advantageous. That definitely helps.
But it also, it helps that I know that I'm being nice. So if I'm nice to you and you're being a cunt to me and I'm trying to be nice to you again You're just thinking that you can just get away with this and that's what I like to go.
Hey, fuck you And you see that look in their face like oh, no Yeah, oh, no. Yeah, you've got into fuck you land.
Yeah, we're here. Yeah, and by the way emotional pain is something that people think

they can get a free slap they think they could just get off on you and hit you with emotional pain like if we're playing this let's hurt each other game how about i just fuck you up yeah like how about that how about i just decide i'll spend the night in jail yeah how about that how about fuck you you know because like that's what you're doing emotionally yes you're trying to create the You're absolutely being abusive.

Yes.

And some people have-

Yes.

...pain.

You're absolutely being abusive.

Yes.

And some people make a habit out of demeaning people to their face, and they think they can get away with it. And it's a really shitty practice.
I do appreciate the people who physically put an end to that. I've never really been like, yeah'll do what I need to do.
Right. But I've never been like, I don't know, I'm going to like, like had a couple of days I'm not proud of because I kind of went ahead and hit that throttle.
Yeah. But in some days, unfortunately you're not in the emotional state and sometimes it is avoidable and you don't avoid.
Yeah. That's the thing.
Like sometimes it is avoidable. I'm so much better at that now.
Yeah, I've expressed my- When I was 25, I had no, I didn't understand that you don't have to do this. Yeah, I've expressed my emotional immaturity at times.
I'm like, yeah, I could have really taken that one a different way. And you're thankful.
You're like, man, I'm glad that one really didn't go sideways because that could have- It's also like it some murder murdered. I mean, things happen and zero question, believe what they did.
And then all of a sudden someone's dead. That happens every day in America.
Oh, I've had a couple close ones that you just kind of everyone walks away and it's like, who? Because you get like, it's like, what was that movie? Like Sherlock Holmes. Remember when he could see the situations and he like pauses it and you could see like, and he like pauses and you're like this would happen this would happen this would happen and then you're like oh there's a dead guy yeah you back it up you're like glad that didn't happen okay bye i'm gone bye just walk away it's like you have to learn that and the problem with young guys is first of all their brains not fully formed they're impulsive they do wild things and then if they feel like they're being slighted, they feel like to be a man, because they want to be a man, you have to do something about it.
Well, it's the number one question every man has. Every man has the same question.
Am I good enough? That's the wounding, right? And every woman goes, her question is, do you see me? It's exactly it. Do you see man says am i good enough that's why there's sport that's why there's fighting that's why people try to make money that's why they try to flex on each other it's the little boy inside all of us going am i good enough yeah and then there's the the people that get past that and then it becomes this ultimate challenge like the the ultimate challenge of life is the most difficult puzzle to solve yes and you can solve it above and beyond all these other psychopaths so you're competing with all these other people that are very much like you but what separates you from them is the work that you put in yeah discipline drive mindset whatever whatever it is that you can find that gives you that edge to pull ahead from all these other people that are very, very competitive as well doing the same thing.
And then with men, they feed off each other in those environments. Like a Westside barbell, a cronk gym.
Yeah. And then when you're wondering that, and then when someone questions it and publicly questions it in front of your boys or front of whatever, it's like, no, I'll show good enough i'll do something stupid right now and end up in jail especially someone who's just a walking dead man with a mouth right like someone who knows they can't defend themselves and so they just feel comfortable doing that publicly because they think they're being protected by society like that's the worst yeah i think yeah this this actual false state of security like man if we're in the jungle right you wouldn't be doing that.
Or when women think they can do it. When women get mouthy with men, like, don't do that.
Why? When I was, I think I was 16 or 17 years old, I was in high school, and there was this kid that moved into the neighborhood. He came from Iran, and his family had a lot of money.
And so they had this, I think it was in Beacon Hill. I forget where it was, but it was a really nice neighborhood.
And this kid had this giant fucking house on this huge lawn. So he decided to have a party.
Of course. So this is how he's going to make friends.
He just moved here from another country, right? Right. So he has a party and kids from every fucking high school came to this party.
And I was at the party with a bunch of my friends. And I was walking up the staircase.
I'll never forget this. So I'm walking up the staircase.
And then, you know, so it's like right here in front of me while this is going down. I can't remember what the girl did.
She either slapped this guy or she threw a drink in his face. I can't remember which one it was.
Some offense. But I remember he uncorked a right

hand like Roberto

Duran. This dude

threw a right hand like he knew how to punch

because I knew how to punch

so I watched him like, oh, good mechanics.

Yeah, right, right. Really.
Really unloaded.

This dude just went like this, just

blap! Just hit her on the

chin. Her head snaps back.

A guy catches her. She goes out.
And then it's bedlam. It's bedlam.
I mean, people are fighting left and right. There's people fighting in the stairwell.
I had to run out. There's piles of guys out on the lawn.
It spread like a disease. It was like within 30 seconds.
How did you decide to hit this guy because of that? It was screaming and then screaming started people screaming at the people screaming which people were fighting the people that were screaming It was the wildest thing was like a disease ran through the house like that like World War Z everybody's like and I Managed to not have any fights a couple of my friends got in fights like one of the better fighters I was interested in street fighting. I'm like, let me get out of here.
I know what this is. This is fucking.
I understand danger. So I got out there.
But I'll never forget that. That girl thought she could hit that guy or do whatever she did.
I forget what she thought. I wish I could remember.
Yeah, quality kind of. All I remember is because it's like 30.
How many years ago was that? 40 years ago? That's a while ago. Oh, god It's 40 years ago.
Yeah, so it was like this blap I mean just fucking I'll never forget that man horrible to laugh at it because she forgot a lot of things that night She definitely might be listening to podcasts now. The third grade.
Yeah, she's probably like that's me Like for sure got a broken face. I mean he hit her her so hard.
And her head snapped back. Just snapped.
She had no idea she was going to get punched by a big guy who knew how to punch. But he was like, hey, fuck you.
Like, you just got the wrong guy with, like, three Millers in him. And he just uncorked one.
Probably not the first time that guy. Probably not the first guy he hit a check.
Yeah. Because the way he did it was like, he didn't slap her.

You know, he didn't slap her.

That's a scary one.

He could have just slapped her or pushed her or something.

You didn't have to KO her.

Yeah.

But there's women that think that they can just go up to a guy and yell because they're protected by society.

There's fucking psychos out there.

It just goes back to be nice.

Yes.

Be nice, man.

Be nice.

But it's like, you motherfucker, I'll fucking'll fucking kill you like hey hey hey hey yeah hey i've been backed up a couple times with the bumps on the chest and it's like all right all right all right then you're like backed against a car like at a tailgate or something you're like yeah and when you say don't touch me yeah it gets it gets hot and then it's like they might just touch you because you said don't touch me. And like I'm telling you don't touch me and then you have to touch them and then oh you're assaulting me.
Like no, no, no. You're still talking so I haven't assaulted you.
if I assaulted you this would be over super quick so let's not do that that happened to me in DC I was walking

with my wife and it's during

when everything was popping off. Oh.
Big, big time. Oh.
Big, big time. People got real mouthy.
Real, real. And we're walking through, and of course, truth be told, I'm walking through, my wife looks like a Viking also, and we're walking through D.C.
during the height of everything. Height of everything.
No mask because I'm outside and I'm a sovereign individual and screw that. And a whole chattering group of a certain population of, you know, well, it's Antifa.
And so they're, rah, rah, rah. And I was like – and I just said, I'm not going to stop walking.
Please move out of my way. Rah, rah, you know, F you, F this, that, that.
Meanwhile, you did nothing. I literally was walking across and they were 40 yards from me and ran across the street to come yell at me like a bark.
They ever seen like a bear or a wild boar gets like bayed by dogs and they're all like, rah, rah, rah. Yeah.
And we're just walking and it's like, okay, please. And we're trying to get to my hotel and there's a cop because they boarded everything off because everything was crazy it was like the four big groups were all doing the deal that weekend and i was like my hotel's right there sorry i said sir do you think i really want to deal with this like like in there everyone has their cameras out because they're like big guy's gonna smoke somebody right and there's a whole deal and then finally what actually one of them was chirping at me she fell down and tripped over something and i helped her up because that's what you do and then get your hands on it's like okay man can i please get to my like this is a thing so and then they played music all night till seven in the morning right outside of our hotel just to make sure that no one slept it was it was a wonderful time fun times it was a great time whatever happened to law and order why do people think that was a good thing why there were so many goofy motherfuckers that didn't want people mad at them so they started yelling out defund the police they started getting on board with it even kamala harris posted defund the police like i mean defund the police on on.
Yeah, when is it a good idea ever to kind of cancel anyone?

Besides someone that hurts children, after that, kind of do what you want to do, right?

Well, that's not even a canceling thing.

That was just people had decided that there was an enemy out there.

I say this, that protests are too much like war.

You're on the ground and you're marching around with a bunch of people yelling. You all have a cause and you're all moving as one group.
It's too much like war. You're on the ground and you're marching around with a bunch of people yelling.

You all have a cause and you're all moving as one group. It's too much like war.
I think there's triggers. That's why mob mentality exists.
Because you've got to be able to kill people if some shit's going down if you're at war. Because weather escalates.
Right. There's a mode that people snap into.
It's called mob mentality. Why does it exist? It exists because at certain points in history, we have gone to war with other groups of people on the ground.
And I think that's built into your psyche. And I think it's just like catching a fish.
You know how you catch a fish? Like if no one's ever caught a fish before, you catch it like, oh, you get so excited. I think it's because your brain is hardwired to know that that fish is going to feed you.
And that's why it's exciting. And you're hardwired to know that if you're yelling and you meet an opposing group, those are the bad people.
And you're looking for people that are opposing groups because you've got power. There's a bunch of you.
Yeah. You're a bunch of bullies.
You're rolling deep. And you find that fucking white guy with the beard and you're like, he's the enemy.
It was wild. It was wild wild but it was like an open door to this psyche that that has always existed that mob mentality has always been a thing and if you open that door and you allow it to stay open and you don't do something to close it with law and order you have fucking madness you have mad and we had that we had that on streets.
In certain places in this country, for months at a time, it was fucking chaotic.

Bonkers.

Yeah.

It was actually pretty cool in my, and I'm going to say none of that world was cool.

But during my town, they started burning stuff and everything like that.

And my sheriff, he's a friend of mine.

He's like, yeah, we shut that down fast.

I was like, what happened?

It's like, someone threw a brick.

I got center mass with a beanbag.

Period.

First time.

Thank you. He's a friend of mine.
He's like, yeah, we shut that down fast. I was like, what happened? It's like, someone threw a brick.
I got center mass with a beanbag.

Period.

First time.

And I go, how long did that take?

He goes, we haven't had a problem since.

I was like, perfect.

He's like, you know.

And that's kind.

It's being kind.

Yeah, exactly.

The beanbag is being kind.

Yeah, a severe punishment really fast generally trains people pretty quickly.

And then it's like, all right, our town went back to being cool.

Everyone's fine.

Yeah, there's no reason for it. And it's crazy how quickly it all boiled over.
And it was all these events happening together at the same time, right? The COVID, the lockdowns, the anger. Everybody got real weird because everyone was just locked in their home for months at a time.
And then the George Floyd thing and the public outrage and the people were on the street. And then people were encouraging it and funding it.
There were certain groups that were encouraging it, organizing it, and funding it. And they got money from people to do it.
And they had pallets of bricks that were conveniently located on the street. All that stuff's real.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, we saw it.
It was remarkable to see it in real time. That's why it's crazy having a guy like Mike Benz lay out how it all is going down.
And you think, oh, it's all organic. People are fed up.
Uh-uh. No.
No, there's a bunch of people that are profiting off of this. Yes.
They want this to take place. They want to be able to push new laws through.
They want to be able to grip tighter, tighter control on censorship, censorship tighter these social media companies have to pay they're responsible for this no no no you fucking funded it you fucking funded it with tax money that was filtered through ngos you cocksuckers you guys are a part of this you want this to happen right that's where you everyone's just like everyone just pause yeah just pump the brakes. If it feels like – what was that song by Iron Maiden?

I can't remember.

When it speeds up at the end.

That's what it felt like the last four years, especially during 2020.

I was like, no, this is the end of like Paranoid or whatever it was.

And it just sped up and you're like, oh, is this how the end of the story goes like as in humanity?

It could be.

Yeah. I think we got a taste of what's possible.

But I also think, I think it was horrible. Anybody who lost someone, anybody where it all went down, I think it was horrible.
Don't get me wrong. But I also think we're lucky.
Yes. Because we got to see it.
It's horrible if you lost your business. It's horrible if you got forced to get vaccinated.

It's horrible.

All those things are horrible.

But we got to see how many people are fucking cowards. We got to see how many people fold as soon as there are any sort of external pressure from either their surround or how many people got forced into it by their job.
We got to see that. And we got to see how there are unscrupulous groups in power That will coerce people to do things that are not scientific.
They're not ethical They're not moral if they can profit off of it And we got to see that that they will use you as a human fucking ATM machine and they will they will figure out a way to maximize their profits And maximize the control so now we know so now we know so now you can't think that the world is some sort of 1950s movie where the good guys wear the white hats and the bad guys wear the black hats you got to realize like there's a lot of human interest shit going on and humans have a certain interest in getting control over money and over people and they do it whenever they can and if they can do it through the guise of being progressive and kind, or if they can do it through the guise of, you know, whatever, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, like whatever it is, they find a way to rationalize these very specific patterns of behavior that the founding fathers of this country fought against when they created the Bill of Rights and they created the Constitution. They did all that knowing that these human nature, these human instincts exist.
Yeah. It'll keep charting back down to this eventually.
And it's like, hold on. People are people and people are going to do people stuff.
And every time they pass something like the Patriot Act or the Patriot Act, they just chip away at that. They're chipping away at that.
And it's their job to do that in their mind. Right.
It shouldn't be because there's not enough oversight of them. That's the problem.
It's like this is the whole concept of the deep state, which was always like such a stupid conspiracy theory for the longest time. People are like, oh, you're worried about the deep state? Until you are.
Until you're like, oh, my God, it's real. Oh, my god uh how did that kid get on that roof like what is come on how did how did he walk around with a fucking rangefinder like we were talking about before rangefinders yeah that's what he had that's why you use those folks for fucking shooting people he's not golfing the whole thing was nuts the whole thing was nuts and we were all just sitting there going oh oh, the deep state's real.
Like, oh, someone did something here. How did his apartment get professionally scrubbed? Are there a team of people that are actually organizing something like this? Has this happened before? Why won't they release the Kennedy files? He died how many fucking years ago? 1963? Yeah.
How? Why? That's 61 years ago. How about you release that?

Hey. He died how many fucking years ago? 1963? Yeah.
How? Why?

That's 61 years ago.

How about you release that?

Hey.

Or.

Hey, how about you guys release that?

Yeah.

Or there's maybe a reason?

Yeah.

Do you think that stuff's going to?

I mean, do you think like. 61 years is not a lot of time, though.

That's a good point.

Like, maybe we should wait another 60.

It makes sense, right?

People aren't ready yet. They're not ready yet.
I've thought about that a lot. I want to know, right? I want to see behind all the scenes.
I want to see the Epsteins, the Diddies, the... Cash Patel says first day, day one.
Let's go. That's what he says.
Let's see it. If they get him in there...
What a stud, right? Oh, are the deep state. You know what he said he wanted to do? He would close Langley and make it a museum of the deep state.
Jeez. This is the first thing he said he would do.
And then just reorganize everything and say, now go back to chasing criminals. Yeah.
And stop attacking the fucking citizens. Stop spying on people, you fucking weirdos.
I'm so pumped about him and Tulsi. And like, there's just such an awesome group of people that are just certainly interesting.
I mean, I'm even excited about the way Trump is doing interviews now. Like he's doing it.
It's like he's become like a wiser person in interviews. Like he does interview with this lady from I think it was NBC.
The recent one that he did was over an hour. But even when he was talking to her, she was saying things.
He's like, you know, you would be so much better if you weren't so biased. So he said to her, it was like a kind way of saying it to her.
Do you think he always had that? And he's just so intelligent. He's playing different cards at different times.
I think he's realizing that part of the problem is not just the resistance that he faced, but his reaction to the resistance. And he still slips sometimes.
He tweets out, I hate Taylor Swift. Oh, my gosh.
Which I thought was hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that.
I just love irrational tweeters. Right.
I mean, at what point is the incoming president going to just dunk on somebody? Well, he wasn't winning yet.

I think he was freaking out.

I honestly think he was freaking out.

You think?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because they were doing a psyop.

And they were all of a sudden making it seem like Kamara Harris was the dream that we'd

always been looking for.

And they were tricking people who recognized that she was an unpopular vice president just three weeks ago. And everybody was all of a sudden on board.
And that one spun around fast. Jesus, it was wild to watch.
But that was another thing. Like, if you can learn from it, look, we got through it.
It didn't work. But you should learn that the government will organize to do that to protect their position of power.
Because here's what's up. The people that are in power, we're not even saying they're evil, I'm not saying anything bad about them, but the people in the administration that's there currently, they're all going to lose their jobs, okay? Or they keep their jobs.
So if they can keep their jobs, what's the way we keep our job? The way we keep our job is we present her as the best option possible. Even if they don't think that's true, they have a vested interest.
You're talking about thousands of people that are in control of these very organizations that were going after social media and were getting them to take down factual information because it was dangerous to their narrative. So they have already shown that they don't have ethics.
They have already shown that they don't give a fuck about freedom of speech and the First Amendment. What they want is to keep their fucking job and keep power and also not get in trouble for some of the shit they did that was illegal, which we wouldn't even known about if Elon didn't buy Twitter.
Yeah. I mean, I agree.
I think the Elon buy on Twitter was like that. It's a game changer.
A game changer. The fork in the road for civilization.
Yeah. It's wild to think, isn't it? Mark Andreessen has said there's two forks in the road there's one elon buys twitter and two trump turns

his head and doesn't get shot those are the two yeah those if those two things don't happen

who fucking knows where we are i i don't disagree and you look at those both scenarios are both

like one in a million like how would a the trump like trump turns his head like that's wild

But then how would a the trump like trump turns his head like that's wild right but then like how would a guy like elon exist first of all in our lifetime right what are the odds what are the odds right that has the vehicle of twitter or or you know and all the things line up not just has the vehicle has so much fuck you money right that he's willing to blow $44 billion on something that's worth $200 billion, maybe. Or rather $20 billion, maybe.
So one of the things that, like, there's this narrative, like, he's such a bad businessman. Twitter is worth $20 billion less than when he purchased it.
No, no, no. It was never worth that much.
He overpaid for it. Right.
He overpaid for it on purpose. Yeah.
Knowingly. Yeah, knowingly.
He just wanted to take control of this fucking thing that has always been so important to us, which is the First Amendment. Yes.
Here's my favorite. People keep saying, I keep seeing this where people that go over to Blue Sky, they keep saying, what Elon's done is highlight right-wing voices and voices and accentuate right wing and Twitter is overrun by right wing now.
No, no, no, no. This is actually representative of the real country, which is 50-50.
This is what you never had before because conservative voices were always censored. So now So now, conservative voices and progressive voices coexist.

And the progressive voices who are the babies don't like it. Because now they have people that think completely different than them.

And they can't stop them.

They're used to silence them.

You used to not be able to say anything about certain things.

You would get kicked off.

And now you could fully express yourself.

Sure.

And you're finding out there's people you agree with.

There's people you disagree with.

That is the world.

The world is not some fucked up echo chamber where if you say, you know, a man is never a woman, you get banned for life.

That happened to my friend Megan Murphy.

She got banned for life because she said a man is never a woman, which is biologically true. But they were like, no, that's transphobic.
For life. For life.
Forever. Bye.
So they don't want any narrative contrary to what they have accepted as doctrine. And that's what's so fucked up.
Remaining dogmatic in the face of alternate information. And pushed.
Pushed by the government. This is what's really important.
And again, that's where you kind of look back and go, if something is being pushed by anyone, follow the money, follow the track. Like, why? What's the point? So they're doing it under the guise of being progressive.
So this is why they think it's worth doing. It's like if you can allow the government to censor you under the guise of them being on the good side, then you're lost because then you've bought into this nonsense.
And you have – if you just looked at it objectively, you have people that are still supporting the military-industrial complex, still supporting overthrowing democratically elected governments and other countries. It's still the same shit that you hated about the right.
And that same government government you've let them into your home and you let them control this Most important platform of free speech on the war in the world Because you think they're doing it for your side, which is good. It's a good thing You bother drone bombing people in Yemen.
They don't give a fuck about you. This is so stupid They're just trying to stay in power and they knew that going to lose power if that Hunter Biden laptop got out.
They're like, we're fucked. This could cost us 10 million votes.
And the wild part is, I guess because it's after the fact, but it doesn't seem like that whole thing really, really changed the scoreboard. And maybe I could be wrong.
The Hunter Biden laptop thing? I think it did. I think it did.
I don't think enough people were talking about it. They didn't know.
If they weren't, if they, first of all, where do people find out things? Most people are not finding out things through the newspaper. No.
They're finding out things through social media. And if you can block it on social media, they don't find out about it.
Of course. There's so many things I talk to people about that's like kind of in our world, like just everyone knows this stuff.
And I'll talk to people just on the street, whatever. They have no idea.
Yeah, most people don't have any idea. And that's where I of in our world like just everyone knows this stuff and i'll talk to people just on the street whatever they have no idea yeah most people don't have any idea and that's where i started going oh there's different narratives being spun to different algorithmic groups because we're all in the truman show our own little truman show 100 and we all think that we know what's going on and i'm like hey guys we all have our different scoreboard somehow that's been put up so like let's just question the scoreboard for a minute and learn how to communicate with people you disagree with and this is the problem with these people that wanted all the right-wing voices banned from twitter like hey guys that's bad for you it's bad for you yes and it's bad for your your own objectivity your own understanding of the world and you need need to, even if someone's wildly incorrect, if they're wildly wrong, you need to be able to know that people do think that way.
It's good for you. Yeah, make a good point.
And like, let's listen. Yeah.
And I enjoy talking to people from all over and like much like yourself. And I've stupidly got into some DMs with like people just like hit me up and they're like.
And I'm just like, well, I'll ride the ride. Yeah.
And I'll ask questions and this and that and the other. But it was very illuminating.
Like, oh, wow, you're looking at a totally different scoreboard, a totally different game clock, a whole different thing. And it makes me at least question myself.
I go, well, maybe I'm watching. I'm the crazy one.
Maybe I'm. No, they're just a Cowboys fan.
They a Cowboys fan the Cowboys can do no wrong right and you're like fuck you I like the writers like whatever it is show you guys that's what it is it's teams for people don't believe in sports and that's politics for a lot of those fuckers a lot of those fuckers are not into sports and they're competition I've always been super reluctant to the whole team thing in the first place because

When I stopped playing baseball, I started fighting one of the reasons why I did it was like

I didn't like that little Billy can drop the ball and I'm a fucking loser. I get it

I didn't like that. I get it.
I like to rely on myself like I've never played a team sport

The most relying on myself to me was like fighting. I was like the same weight

We you there's no trickery or three to one go, you know you're like are you ready are you ready go it was like so simple to me like this is what i'm looking for this is like competition that makes sense to me yeah and this idea of like joining a group of people and all of their opinions i have to agree with like that's horrendous to me like that like what are the odds they're going to be right what are they even in fighting so many people are so wrong in their ideas like there's guys in the gym that I'll hear them giving advice like you don't need submissions you want to learn submission defense like what are you talking about don't tell him that like you should shut the fuck up like and this guy's a trained fighter in a gym he's telling people you just need submission defense like no no no no no no no no

no you need to learn how to do it so you can even defend it correctly just even know what's out there

that's like listening to the other side right it's like hey tell me why you believe x y and z

that i think is absurd but yeah give me oh wow okay well now i realize you're crazy but at least

i know it's also like who who are you training with where you don't think that works

Thank you. Yeah, give me – oh, wow.
Okay. Well, now I realize you're crazy, but at least I know.
It's also like who are you training with where you don't think that works? Why don't you go train with Fabrice Overdoom and then tell me you should learn your guard? You don't know what you're talking about. You're talking nonsense.
You're saying something from this very narrow-minded perspective like you can only learn so many skills. No.
You should learn the whole thing. Right.
if you can't learn the whole thing you're in the wrong game because these kids that are coming up guarantee you that i watch some of these kids that are coming up in the amateur ranks and they're kids that are fighting in the uk and they're going to make their way in the ufc these motherfuckers are complete and they're like 18 some of these kids that are fighting in one fc they're like 17, 18 years old, and they're complete.

They can do everything.

Like, you better learn how to do everything.

Yeah, you're going to meet that guy.

Yeah, that guy's out there.

And otherwise, you're in the wrong game.

And if you're giving advice saying, you don't need to learn that, like, oh.

Oh, that's a good, like, if you're ever giving advice that someone doesn't need to expand their horizons, like, that's just wrong. Right, but imagine if that guy's your coach.

And imagine you have a team.

And everyone on the team has to believe that submissions are bullshit building that same narrative right and then you get trapped with all these meatheads that think it's just all about ground and pound and then you get triangled every weekend you're like i'm tired of getting triangles yeah well it's the same uh tribalism and strength conditioning too you either get guys are like oh all the power lifting moves that's all you got to do bench squat and it's like all the other guys are olympic lift you got to snatch clean and jerk and everything else is stupid you're like okay guys like and i used to joke i was like i could look at your shoes and i could tell you what tribe you're in and what music you probably what shoes are what are the shoes that you look at converse all-stars a lot of guys lift with those because they'll be west side that's a hardcore dude it's a hardcore dude he's gonna run all he's gonna work run call converse he's gonna box squat he's gonna sumo dead why doesn't converse make an all-star with a wider toe box because i try to lift in converse my teeth are stupid they're hard they're hard to do i like a wide toe box yeah i like a vivo barefoot like that but converse are good because they're flat there's not a lot of – there's no cushion there. Well, it depends on what you're doing, right? If you're like more of a wide stance sumo or box squat, because your feet – your heels aren't elevated, it's actually a better situation for squatting.
Right. Well, if you're an Olympic lifter, you're going to be closer, so you want a heels elevated with a flexible toe.
And that's why you look and you're like, oh, okay, this is what you're doing. And then I kind of laugh laugh like the guys with the cross trainers are usually just dudes that do a whole bunch of crap and they're doing plyos and dancing around and whatever but there's always like these little tribal things like if you're this person you're wearing chucks and you're listening to pantera yeah like it's just part of the gig you know it's always funny and it's like all right some people think you have to lift heavy if you heavy, you're a pussy.
Oh, or you have to listen to music at like 8,000 decibels to lift heavy. Yeah.
And slap your fucking thighs and scream. I've danced that dance before.
Throw the power out of your hands. Oh, I've done the...
I've done the... Smelling salts? The smelly...
Of course. Oh, we do smelling salts in here.
Let's go. Right here.
Yeah, let's roll. Let's go.
Let's go. It was a good one, huh? Rough.
It was probably better than what I had back in the day. It was a good one, and it's not even that fresh.
Yeah, it's not even fresh. That's worse.
Worse than I remember. That's Juju Mufu's.
Yeah. Yeah.
We are an unlicensed promoter of this brand.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, we used to do the little capsules and break them, and that's a whole different animal.

Yeah, that's real.

That's a whole jar of it.

It's potent.

The fumes that come out are so strong.

When you have a sealed bag, you can smell it on the outside of the bag.

Then when you open the bag, you get a sealed bottle.

I think my ears are bleeding now.

Just the smell from opening the bag is rough.

Yeah.

No, I just... What does that do?

Does that really help you?

Have you ever tried to lift before that and then it just snaps the central nervous system kind of like you know when you're passed out right does it make you a little stronger you think more mad more mad more mad mad's good on big gross motor movements squats deadlifts i used to call like deadlifts or just how mad you were. They used to have the strongest man competitions all the time on ESPN.
Those dudes were like holding on to cars. They had the cars on the ramps.
Oh, so cool. Yeah.
The big stones and Atlas stones. It was so great.
It was fun. Yeah.
I watched them all the time in the 90s. And then actually my dad was in 1980 at the Playboy Club.
He was with Bill Kazmaier when he did the Silver Dollar Deadlift. What's the Silver Dollar Deadlift? He had like 900-something pounds of these clear boxes, and they were filled with silver dollars.
Oh, wow. And it was super cool.
And so there's like an iconic lift, and Pops was like hanging out with his cats. But it's funny because there's like a whole picture of him.
And I'm pretty sure, I mean, he was obviously training. I think he was partying pretty hard, too.
So he looked straight off of a ripper. And I was like, man, the 80s were awesome.
He looked like Magnum P.I. It was awesome.
Yeah, they were just learning things. Oh, man.
It was the pioneer days, basically. Jeez, it was so cool.
You always knew that if you were watching The Strongest Man, if the dude's name was Magnus, he was going to fuck things up. Yeah, yeah.
Some Magnus character. Is there for Magnus and a Samuelson if there's some sons involved? You know, one of those guys is fighting MMA.
He's been fighting at Mariusz Pudinowski. Oh, I remember Mariusz.
Yeah. He went from being a strong man to being like a really good MMA fighter.
I could see that. In the beginning, he was getting fucked up, but he tried to dive in right away.
Like, he tried to fight, God, he fought some good fighters like right away. When Marius was at the height, because we used to do a lot with the Arnold Strongman classic.
He fought Tim Sylvia. That's how he fought.
Oh my gosh, did he? He fought Tim Sylvia like really early on. Like when Tim,.
So, he fought Tim Sylvia in his third pro fight, and he got the fuck beaten out of him. Yeah.
Well, that'll happen. Like, that was just.
But I never forget. Then he fought Butterbean.
He beat Butterbean. He lost to James Thompson, and he beat James Thompson.
Oh, well, no contest, it says. Yeah.
What a stud. Fought Bob Sapp.
That was when Bob Sapp was, like, of yeah my dives my uh my buddy used to train with bob holes gracie beat holes gracie yeah he knocked holes gracie out yeah so he's kind of like a bunch of like legit mma fights yeah pujanowski was like one of the first guys i ever saw that was that big that had like vascular lats so we were in the backstage and it was kind of weird because like he was considerably bigger the year than before. And I think even taller too.
I was like, this guy wasn't. I was just like, well, here you go.
How did he get taller? I was like, that's what I was questioning. He's on all kinds of crazy shit.
I don't remember him being taller. That's amazing.
But it was really weird. The old boy got taller.
Look at the size of that motherfucker. Yeah, he was backstage, and everyone was like big, big,

but it was like, Marius is in a whole different category.

Oh, he was a tank.

On multiple levels. See if you can find him now, though.

He's slimmed down considerably.

He still looks fucking huge.

But as an MMA fighter now, he's, yeah.

See, there you see.

Click on that picture.

Yeah.

No, the other one.

He's still terrifying.

What above it?

Right above it.

That's not new.

It's old. Yeah, but what year is that? I don't know.
It's clearly old, though. 22.
Oh, because it's blurry? 22 years old. Does it say that it's 22 years old? Is that a potato camera? 2002.
Oh, okay. See if you can find some footage of him actually fighting.
Maybe there's some. I'm sure he's got some highlights.
There he is right there. It's on his knees.
Oh, shit. Oh, here we go.
So he's still stiff, but but he's got good technique and he's got a lot

of power man yeah look at the muscles on the back of his neck he looks like when those bucks during

the rut yeah yeah but at least like he's he's throwing correctly hands up high and this is all

technical work here well it's like brian shaw's been doing a little bit of sparring with derrick

wolf oh jesus how terrible is that what does he weigh 3? 390? I don't know. I mean, I know he was up to 440-something at one point.
My dad is actually who got him in a strongman. He came by our booth at 18 years old.
And my dad was like, hey, you're really strong. You should get into this.
Yeah, he should be on another planet. You're too big.
You're too big for this planet. Yeah.
He was probably 240. That makes me believe in the Anunnaki.
Right. You know, there's actually giants that are like, where, what happened? 100%.
How'd you get so big? Those dudes. You remember Cleve Dean? You ever remember that guy? No.
Who's he? So he was a old, they called him like a pig farmer. He was the one, the one, the original world's strongest man, but he was an arm wrestling champion.
And he was like all those old, like weird, like 440-pound, like just giant farmer. Yeah, there he goes.
Yeah, that cat. Oh, why is that poor little fellow arm wrestling? I mean, look how big that human is.
Jesus Christ. Look at his hand.
Yeah. Oh, my God.
Yeah. Look at that photo.
That's Big Daddy Goodridge. It was an MMA fighter.
Look at that hand holding the table in the front. Look at the size of that fucking thing.
Wild, right? Yeah. If you could teach that guy how to throw a jab, you'd fuck a lot of people up.
I would like to see a fight between him and Andre the Giant. Oh, God.
That would have been awesome. Definitely wouldn't be long.
Right. Right.
Did you ever meet Andre? No, I did not. That would have been cool.
Yeah, I would have liked to have met him. That would have been cool.
I met Hulk Hogan twice. Did you? I met him once when he was super tall.
Well, I met him multiple times. But I met him once when he was super tall, and then now he's just like regular big.
Really? Yeah, because he's lost like five or six inches of height for his back. Oh, just getting compressed? His back is all like fused.

Wow.

His whole back is fused.

He's so fucked.

How many surgeries did he say he had, Jamie?

Some crazy amount of back surgeries.

Really?

Yeah.

His whole back is fucked.

Like he walked with a cane.

It's rough.

Have you talked about 25 in the last 10 years?

25 back surgeries.

Oh, so he just lost all of his... He's had knees, hips, shoulders, face, abs.
I'm sure you've met Stallone before, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Have y'all just talked like random old weird stuff? No, I didn't get a chance to talk to him very much. I interviewed him once for, I think it was Spike TV when I was doing the UFC thing.
I interviewed interviewed him he was fun he is why he's very similar to you and then so like wild like remembers everything from like those eras of stuff and and you know gunner peterson so i was at gunner's gym in la and stallone was in there i was like oh that's badass freaking stallone like i'm a kid of the 80s and And I was like, hey, would you mind? He sat down with me for 45 minutes. Oh, wow.
And we just talked like – but he mentioned Cleve Dean. He remembered all the arm wrestlers, the boxers, historian of the human performance world.
It was like, oh, this is so cool. I figured you guys had to have nerded out about it.
Have you ever paid any attention to the old catch wrestling guys? No. What's that? Okay.
Catch wrestling was catch as catch can, which is what they used to call it I think when they were in England. Okay.
And then when they came over to America, it was called – what it was was basically wrestling with submissions. And there were certain rules like you could pin a guy or you could submit them and they can tap um and there was a few guys that were legendary for their strength and conditioning routines no way yeah yeah josh barnett learned under carl gotch and gotch was like famous for having like this unbelievable gauntlet of strength and conditioning work that you had to be able to get through before he would even train you.
Really? Yeah. Like he went over to Japan and Gotch trained a lot of guys.
Like there's a lot of catch wrestling influence. Well, when you go back to the early days of catch wrestling, like go back, go Farmer Burns.
Because Farmer Burns was like one of the, what is this? What am I watching here? What is Catch As Catch Can? So these guys. Was that George Hackenschmidt? Is that what it was? Yeah, back up for a second.
Yeah, Hackenschmidt. Yeah.
So he's like one of the fathers of strength and conditioning. Makes sense.
Because a lot of these. Hack squad.
Carl Gotch and Hackenschmidt were duking it out at Comiskey Park. Yeah.
And they would have wrestling matches, but they were real matches.

Wow.

And then somewhere along the line, they started doing carnival matches.

And then these carnival matches, they had regular people that they would find

and they would have predetermined outcomes.

Then it became pro wrestling, and that's where pro wrestling was given birth to right it was out of this necessity to kind of rig the matches right but getting the wahoo chop see these are kind of enthusiasts that are doing it now like in a modern setting but the the guys who really know the stuff like josh barnett has tapped out some legit brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts in competition with catch wrestling techniques. It's like Kimuras, Americanas.
That's cool. They call that a double wrist lock, though.
They have different terminology for some of the same moves. But Farmer Burns was this guy that was so legendary with his strength and conditioning that he would hang from a tree.
He would literally hang himself. hang himself.
Like, hang? Because his neck, his neck was so built up, and he was a small guy. He was, like, 160 pounds.
But he was so jacked, and he literally had, like, a pit bull neck. There's photos of him where he would do this stunt where he would hang by the neck in front of crowds.
Like, look at him. That's him.
Oh, wow. Okay.
That's Farmer Burns. Farmer Burns.mer Burns.
Probably very similar to the Mighty Adam if you've ever heard of him. But you know how fucking strong your neck has to be? And not just hang sometimes.
Hang like all the time. Look at his neck.
That's amazing. Look at his fucking neck.
But he knew that if your neck is weak, your body's weak, your core is weak. If someone collar ties you and you got a neck like that, you can resist it and you could work your shit.
Yeah. Anything that hangs out of your T-shirt, you better train.
There was a bunch of those guys back in those days that just had these incredible strength and conditioning programs. And they used a lot of things like steel maces.
Yep. Like Carl Gotch.
See if you can find Carll gotch strength and conditioning routine because even like as an older man when he was teaching people stuff he would show how he maneuvered these you know these big fucking maces it's like super impressive stuff yeah it just but it's maneuvering something not necessarily lifting it all that functional strength stuff he would have those guys do 500 bodyweight squats every day. Every day.
Oh, that's cool. So here's him back then.
Carl Gotch. And a lot of it was like Hindu push-ups.
Look how flexible he was. For a big fucking giant dude.
Yeah. Like super flexible.
So they realized that, you know, like we were talking about, technique is very important but also strength. So look at the size of his fucking thighs, dude.
Yeah, look at the neck. Yeah.
And so he'd make these guys do these crazy wrestler's bridges. And look at how you could do that.
Like support yourself and pull yourself back up like that. So they kind of resist against necks.
Yeah. So these guys would have these unbelievably grueling physical sessions, and then they'd do their technique.
Wow. So they would attempt to, I guess, be a pre-fatigue, and so you'd love to do it? Well, also, you just had to be in phenomenal shape.
Because in wrestling, that's the first thing that goes. You must have ridiculous conditioning to be an elite wrestler.

Look at the size of his fucking legs, dude.

So Carl Gotch was just super famous for this.

He's in Japan here teaching these guys.

And obviously this is black and white.

It's just a long time ago.

Yeah, have you ever seen the...

Who is he training here?

Does it say who he's working with?

Inoki.

That's Inoki.

Oh, wow. Of course, Inoki fought Muhammad Ali.
Oh, okay. Right.
You ever see that fight? No. Oh, my God.
It was like some crazy scam fight where Inoki just dropped to his back. Yeah, work his neck.
So he's lifting him up with his neck. He's standing on his face, though, too.
Yeah, man. Good job.
Carl Gotts didn't fuck around, dude. Yeah, that's obvious obvious That'll build your chin so a no key had this fight with Muhammad Ali and Muhammad Ali's trying to punch him and a no key Just goes to his back and kicks his legs So he's he fucked Muhammad Ali's legs up to like they were really fucked up for quite a while really after that Yeah, so this is what they did.
He just kicked his knees and kicked his legs Yeah,ikes. And Ali's like, what the fuck? And it's in Japan.
And they're paying him a ton of money to do it. And so the referee has to separate him.
And the referee is Judo Gene Lebel. No way.
Yeah, so Judo Gene Lebel is the referee. And Inoki is just lying on his back kicking him.
And he's kicking him with roundhouse kicks. Like, look at this.
So he's fucking Ali's's fucking ali's legs up man that's when you're a guy who makes his living off of his footwork which was ali like this was super dangerous look he's getting him in a leg lock so obviously this wasn't boxing this no it was some weird hybrid fight that you know i think ali just needed money and they talked him into doing this but look at those fights we get today is that sort of like what this was going on? just crazy Exhibition real fights that are happening. Well sort of but this was real Enoki was really trying to hurt him He really did kick the shit out of his legs and Ali really see if you can find any articles on Ali's legs After the Enoki bout that's I think he really fucked his legs up because he didn't know how check kicks.
He didn't know what to even do. And all of a sudden, this guy's on his back, roundhouse kicking his legs and stomping at his knees.
Yeah. So who knows if his knees got hyperextended, he tore his meniscus.
Of course. Who knows what the fuck happened there? Jeez.
Have you ever seen, there's an old Polish documentary that's them training in the 1970s, and they're doing all that kind of crazy stuff and throwing logs.

Look at it.

It says he has blood clots in his leg.

Where does it say that?

Nearly ended Ollie's career.

Before I clicked on it, it said it in the little sentences.

Finally, the 15th round, they called it a draw.

Wow. Ollie is bleeding from the legs.
He, they called it a draw. Wow.

Ali is bleeding from the legs.

He gets an infection in his legs, and he almost has to have an amputation.

Holy shit.

Extended stay in the hospital was the best case scenario coming out of the fight.

Wow.

So Muhammad Ali suffering two blood clots and an infection in his leg from Inoki's vicious, grounded kicks, according to the Sweet Science.

Wow.

Wow.

When he finally did...

So look at this.

So he said he continued his tour of Asia despite this, competing in exhibition matches in South

Korea and the Philippines before returning to the United States.

When he finally did get back to the U.S., Ali needed to stay in Los Angeles Hospital for multiple weeks to recover from injuries sustained in the Inoki fight Holy shit, man. He put him on ice man.
They were concerned Ali's injuries could even be life-threatening. Well, that's staph infection He was bleeding from the legs got an infection his legs almost had to have an amputation Bro staph infections are fucking terrifying.
Have you had one? Yeah. Yeah, I've had two.
Twice. Twice I've had staph.
Not bad, though. I had a blood clot.
Caught it both times. I had a blood clot one time.
I got jammed up, smoked my ankle, and I was like, didn't think much of it. Felt like just kind of weird.
Got hot. Got swollen.
I'm competing all over the world, and I'm like, yeah, this kind of feels weird. And the doctor's like, hey, man, you need to get that checked up.
Of course, jumped back on a plane, went across the country. And they said that I had a blood clot from my knee to my hip.
Oh, shit. Yeah.
So it was blocking off the blood. It was blocking off, yeah, and my calf was giant.
What do they do about that? I just started taking blood thinners and stuff, which was cool. But you can't get cut.
Couldn't get cut, which is kind of funny because I got on the blood thinners and I just pulled an alligator tag like a couple days before. No.
So I told the doctor, I was like, he's like, don't do anything that'll get you cut. I was like, well, I'm going alligator hunting tonight.
And he's like, ha ha. And I was like, no, no, seriously.
He's like, no, you'll bleed out if you get bit. And I'm like, yeah, but I probably won't bleed out.
So I remember like in the middle of the night in the swamp, giving myself shots of whatever that stuff was in my stomach. And it was, I'm not very smart.
So, uh, how long do you have to take the blood thinners for? I took them home for about six to eight months. Whoa.
Cause I started on the shots and then I went to like the Warfarin tabs and they had to, to keep checking me, keep checking me cause they had to let it all break out out and so i'd have to once a month get it ultrasounded and there's no better way can't they pull that out of there or something yeah that's what i would have thought they were like you know um that's crazy it's crazy so i was at christmas party a couple months later and my doctor saw me and he was like hey and he was a couple had a couple beers in him so he's like, uh, you're going to do, you or you're one of your descendants are going to do something special for this world. And I'm like, what do you mean? And he was like, he's like, you know where that blood clot should have been? I go, uh, where? And he just tapped me on the chest.
He's like right there. He goes, no way you shouldn't have died on that one.
I go, really? He goes, you heated it. You iced it.
You massaged it. You flew, you trained.
He goes, you did everything if you were trying to commit suicide by blood clot for months. He goes, how it didn't travel? I have no idea.
Whoa. But when someone tells you that, you're like, well, that's cool.
I guess things are going to go awesome for a while. Or you just got lucky.
Yeah. And then what happened, my lower leg basically, they said it grew another vein.
So it grew a bypass around it. No.
So all the swelling started going down. And they're like, yeah, one of your minimized veins or smaller veins actually grew in capacity and just worked its way around.
They're like, the human body will do that. I'm like, so it just worked its way around the bypass.
What would have happened, though, if you didn't get that vein diluted with the blood thinners or that blood clot something to kick loose i mean it was right at my hip it doesn't go away your body doesn't absorb it ever i mean if if the uh what if the hematocrit or whatever the blood the the thickness of the blood was still of that if it ever broke loose it he's like it would have gone to your heart your head that would have'd have been a stroke or heart attack. And, you know, but it's weird.
Like, and it was just an ankle injury, ankle smoked it. It's like, oh, okay.
You know, I'll be fine. Start walking it off.
And what screwed me is the next day it was all black and blue, the whole deal. Right.
I'm walking, walking, walking. Everything's not fine.
It sucked. And I had to go on a business trip.
And I was like, let me go check and make sure it's not like broken that I have to get it like actually fixed. I went to the doctor and they're like, hey, you got to mobilize this thing.
And I'd been walking for a week. And so they wrapped it up and mobilized it.
And I remember I was on a plane. I was sleeping and it felt like someone lit a fire in my calf.
And I was like, what was that? And I went to my hotel room and I filled the trash can up with ice and I just dumped my leg in there to cool my leg down. And that was like in May.
And I competed at the Hammer World Championships all the way to Labor Day. And I was in San Francisco.
And I'm like, something's weird. I pulled down my knee sleeve and one of the docs was there there and he was like, what is going on with your leg? I'm like, I think I pulled a hamstring or something.
He's like, nah, you didn't. And so I came back, called my guy at South Carolina Sports Medicine and he got me in right away.
And he's like, dude, you got a big ass blood clot and like you got to get this squared away now. Holy, imagine if you didn't do that.
Imagine if you just. Just die.
You would have just been like, hey, I'm – One day you would have just died. I would have been a 30-year-old really healthy guy that just keeled over.
And so it's like that kind of hits you. And that was honestly kind of the end of my competitive sports world because I started realizing like all I cared about was winning.
And all I cared about was training and winning. And I like I for went social relationships, being smart with my body and all this stuff, because I was like, no, I'm going to win worlds.
I'm going to go do this. I'm going to be top, whatever.
Yeah. And it was just like drive, drive, drive.
And I was like, man, I didn't see this very obvious thing that could and should have killed me. It's like I need to grow up like I need to like refocus how I'm looking at these things.
And so I had to mature and just like, OK, I've competed for 15 or 20 years or whatever it was at that point. And it's like, maybe take a pump, pump the brakes for a second and just go like, am I making good choices for my family?

Good choices for my business, people that rely on me because if, you know, cool in all things, but if Bert just keels over, like, you know, that's not optimal for really anyone. It's interesting how you can get completely caught up in one goal to the point where you don't see anything else in life and you just miss out on a giant chunk of life.
But if you want to be the best at something, it's kind of the trade-off. It's the Neil Brennan joke.
That's the trade-off. Yeah, I've talked about like the rabbit hole guy versus the 90% guy.
And like the 90% guy, which I think I've kind of turned into, like if I train for something and get into something i've generally found if i really care about i could be as good as 90 of the world at it like a lot of different things right but if you're the guy that wants to go down there to be the best the goat you have to go down so far around the rabbit hole and forsake all other things yeah to where you lose sight of of By the way, you could still not make it. And you could still not make it.
Yeah, you could be in the same weight class as John Jones. Right.
And you're just like, I picked the wrong hero to be alive, right? Yeah. There's Mike Tyson in 1986.
Whoops. So you want to be a heavyweight boxer.
Oh, no. Yeah.
You're Tyrell Biggs. That's the weird part.
It's like you could be the rabbit hole guy and go so far down and lose sight of life and still be the number three guy ever. Yeah.
And, you know, I kind of like use like the Yoda, like the Dagobah Forest. Like that's where people went to get all the force.
Like they don't write books about the 90% guy. Right.
They write books about the weirdo that lived in the forest. There's a little green man that knew the force.
However, though- That guy might be miserable. Might be miserable, man.
And I've seen it a lot. Yeah.
You got to know when to stop. It's fun to do in the beginning, but you got to know when to stop.
I mean, I would say you're probably as good or better than 90 plus percent of the human population at fighting. Probably.
Probably, yeah. You're probably better at 90% of the human population at fighting probably probably yeah you're probably better at 90 of the human population at shooting a bow probably yeah probably right and so you start looking at things you're like oh the things i really want to be levi morgan there's a long road it's a long road it's a long road yeah long ass road and like if you want to beat gordon ryan you're probably never going to catch him because he's already still doing it, and he's not doing archery and he's not doing a podcast and he's not doing a thing.
And then so like I've had to kind of went to this thing. I was like, do I want to be a 90% guy that enjoys semi-balance in my life and is really passionate about three or four or five things and be really, really good or do I want to throw all my chips in and the probability is i won't be the goat right especially if it's a competitive thing right where it gets we're real tricky with some people is if maybe it's a thing that's not a competitive thing and you can keep doing it yes like my friend gary clark jr when he records albums he goes crazy and he locks himself in the And and he's there for like fucking 12 hours like every day and it drives his family nuts he's just like constantly working on his music because to him like he wants to be all in yes like that's what that's where he lives that's where he creates this great music when he's all in and you could sacrifice all the other things in your life you're not going to work out you're not going to go on trips you're not going to all you're doing is just whatever that thing maybe it's painting whatever maybe it's writing books whatever it is you're all in and although it's beautiful i don't know if i'm that guy you don't have to be you know and also i had to look at myself in the greater you know if you're looking at the universe if you look at the greater picture of everything It's not really important what you do here in this life, but for you it is The problem is if you're compelled To try to be number one and you don't really chase it.
You're always gonna have that thing in the back of your head I never really went for it yes at least you went for it for a long time and that's the thing like that i think is the best way go for something and then but know when to stop that's where it was yeah don't be a 70 year old dude out there in the olympics throwing a hammer please don't no he's the oldest guy who ever threw the hammer ah gosh well actually, one of my mentors, Judd Logan. So this dude made four Olympic teams and the hammer and then got out of it.
And he was a coach. And then every time that he would hit a 50-year, 55-year, 60-year, he would train for three or four months, break the all-time world record in that age class.
And he would go off again for five years. Good Lord lord and he would just come back and he would do it again and just shatter the world record and he would come back and he'd do it and he just did that up until pretty much when he when he passed did he keep training the entire time like how did he be able to come back he was very genetically gifted and he would he would just he was a coach so he was always doing it and kind of screwing around and And then he'd get serious.
But then he would get serious for the last little bit.

And all of his kids would come out, all of his guys he coached.

And, I mean, he was just a, oh, gosh, I wish he would have been.

At the end, like when he was like 70, how far away was he from guys who were 30?

He knocked me out of the Olympic trial finals in 2004, and he was 40.

Gosh, he was probably 45, 46 years. He was like a little bit younger than me now but i was 27 and in my prime wow and and he would that would have been his sixth olympic trials and you're just like but it's judd right like he's a mythical bill brasky creature like he's he'sd.
And you're just like, dang it. Judd's going to figure out a way to figure out a way.
And he just generally – So how many age class world records did he hold? He went 50, 55, and 60. And then he passed away a couple years ago.
Actually, he had cancer and then he had some COVID complications. It sucked, man.
I mean, you talk about a guy that's just that statuesque, like best conversationalist, like poured into all these kids and stuff. And you're just like, he's the coach you always wanted to have, you know? And you're just like, ah, but things happen.
It's interesting when you watch the way different people live their life, because you could see benefits and you can see where it would be a detriment to the rest of your life.

And it allows us to look through these mythical creatures like that guy, these John Jones type characters, these Carl Gotches and go, but is that what I want to do?

Correct.

You should know what you want to do.

Don't get tricked into doing something you don't want to do because there's people out there that really want to do that. And if you don't really want to do that, you're never going to beat them anyway.
Ever. Ever.
You're already most likely not going to. Right.
Already most likely not going to. But if you're not really sure, you're fucked.
Oh, you're dead in the water. If you've got one foot in, guess what, bitch? That foot's going to be snatched up by a crocodile.
Yeah. One foot in the grave and one in a roller skate.
Yeah. You can't compete with a really obsessed, talented person if you're not really obsessed and talented.
And the weird part is when you look at yourself and kind of question that. Like, am I a 90% guy? And some people aren't either.
Some people are like, I don't care what happens, man. I'd be average.
And that just sounds horrible, right? Yeah. That doesn't sound like you're going to get anywhere.
And you're going to be interesting not in the least yeah that's that's the problem like you're not going to attract other interesting people because they're not going to want to be around you right and the biggest really funny well that's helpful yeah the biggest part about being interesting is being interested right you know ask a lot of questions be interested like yeah that's where i think one of your superpowers besides you have a trap for a brain, you've recalled things that we've talked about. Like, I was like, I didn't know he was listening to that.
It was pretty impressive. But the thing is, when you come to that, like, am I a rabbit hole guy? Am I a 90% guy? In my opinion, those are the only two choices.
Like, the other ones are screw those. But when you really look at like have you ever seen like where your line really is my line your line like when like you're like i i will go this far but that's as far as i'll go right like down that rabbit hole to whatever that is or whatever stressor or whatever that may be and uh it's weird i hadn't't done it.
And in recent, like I had an experience. It was like, okay, there's my line.
Okay. That's, that's.
Well, what did you do? I was in Africa and, and, and I was hunting Cape Buffalo, which is the most dangerous thing. With a bow or a rifle? Rifle, but still it, it's one of those things.
You get in there close and it was like, go with the boat, right? Oh, you could die. You'd die.
It was pretty hairy. It kills more people than everyone.
What do they taste like? They're actually awesome. We did the inner loins that night in Namibia.
It was fantastic. And the cool part about that is we donated the meat to the local village, and they were super stoked.
Wild part is after we gutted it, there's like 400 pounds of of guts on a buffalo and i'm like are y'all gonna like truck this out to the desert or out to the place and like let the hyenas and they're like no the villagers are taken i was like the guts and they said yeah no like there will be a party tonight no no running water hearts lungs liver stomach you know And they go, they will be so excited to get that.

And so that was a, for me, I go, oh, we think we understand poverty.

We think we understand in this country, like, what not having.

We're like, oh, yeah, I didn't have a whatever.

Like, no, this village is stoked to get 400 pounds of guts off a Cape Buffalo that's been laying in the woods dead for the last 10 hours. Really? They were pumped.
Old guts. Old guts.
Old hot guts. We put a tarp over it so before we could get back out there to get the bull out of the jungle or whatever it would be called.
So it didn't get super hot, but struck a big black 2,000 pound animal. What are they doing with the guts? How are they eating it? They said they'll wash out all the fluids, all the guts, shit, and everything else and they'll put it on the grill and fry it and do all this.
They said protein does not go to waste in Africa at all. Wow.
So I'm like, you guys are going to, of course, eat a heart, but they're like, yeah, they're eating heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, like anything. What does lungs taste like boy i don't know i don't know if i want to know i've always thought about it yeah yeah because like when you yeah open up an elk you look at it like can you eat this like what does this taste like have you eaten heart i'm sure yeah oh i eat heart's good right i love heart i eat lung i mean uh liver rather i eat the liver and i eat the heart yeah but you it seems like lungs are – I've never heard of anybody.
And then stomach and stomach line. I guess that's what haggis is, right? Yeah.
It's like haggis, lungs, and stomach. You know what I know a lot of guys do? They take the call fat from the – Yeah.
And then they chop up meat and then they'll wrap it in the call fat and put it on the grill. Rinella did that, didn't they? That looked really cool.
It looked real good. Season it and then wrap it in call fat and then slice it open.
We ate the inner loins and they were really good. But they were talking about how the villagers out there, they're like, yeah, all this meat that these hunters get, like it all goes to the villages.
I'm thinking people understand like how much that changes the game. So when you say your line, what did you mean by that? Well, they had another opportunity to do a lion hunt.
Oh, yeah, I'm not interested. That was my line.
Yeah. It was like, yeah, for multiple reasons.
Well, first of all, you're not going to eat it. Right.
You could. I mean, I know dudes who eat mountain lion.
It's delicious. Mountain lion is actually really good.
According to everybody that I know that's eating it, they're not lion.

There's people that are iffy on bear.

I enjoy bear.

The rivets, of course, they crank some bears.

They know how to cook it.

But the reality of a lion is I don't think anybody's out there eating African lions.

Yeah, right.

And they're just a multitude.

I mean, they're a big – I mean, I got nothing against a lion to start with.

They're too cool.

They're cool.

I don't want to eat a lion.

They're big.

They're scary. They hide really well.
They're really fast. They're dope.
they're dope there's a lot of they didn't exist you'd be pumped they've if you like if somebody put one of those in a movie like what a cool awesome animal you know so it's just like okay like for multitude of reasons like i'm i'm a hunter guy enjoy it's like okay not that one okay and then not this and then you start looking at even training you're like hey i'll do this but i won't do that right and um i don't want shoot anything I'm not going to eat. I'm not going one.
Okay. And then not this.
And then you start looking at even training. You're like, hey, I'll do this, but I won't do that.
Right. And I don't want to shoot anything that I'm not going to eat.
I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in going to hunt something that's inedible.
I just don't get it. I get how people want to do it, but I feel like the same about fishing.
Like, I don't want to catch stuff that you can't eat. Yeah, you fish a good bit, don't you? Yeah, I love fishing.
What's your favorite thing to fish? I mean, if I really had the time and I don't, it would be like salmon fishing in a river. Really? That's the most fun because they're so big and they're so strong and the way they jump.
And there's something about rivers. Like, ocean's cool.
I love ocean fishing, but it's like less personal. There's something about being on a small boat on a river, and you hook a salmon.

Oh, yeah.

You see it jump.

My friend Ari and I, we went up to Anchorage a few years back, and we did a show.

We did some salmon fishing.

It was really fun.

And then I've done a lot of trout fishing.

I love bass fishing.

Yeah.

Bass fishing's always fun. Top water.
Yeah. yeah oh yeah yeah in late summer watch them smash that that's the best big frog it's fun yeah have you ever done a um i probably would be a bad idea for you but like i put a uh green light under my dock in my house wow dude cheat goat oh and they all come toad.
Oh, and they all come to it. It's the coolest thing.
Oh, yeah. It's in the spring and, you know, February through March, April.
And then right now they're happening again. The striped bass will school under it.
Oh, whoa. And it's like, you know, you're catching four to 15 pound fish every night.
Oh, that's awesome. Every night.
And so I'll sit up at the house. That's so cheating.
And I'll, yeah, no, seriously. So I'll be with the wife and she will have a glass of wine i was like all right we'll go to bed and i was like well i'm gonna go fish she's like you're going fishing now i said i'll be back don worry and because you only get like two or three casts before they blow off the light but you're going to catch two or three fish every night on the first two or three casts oh wow which is awesome well it's a great way to get food yeah you go catch a seven or eight pound striper, gut him, throw him in the ice and then do it.
So I would literally fish, catch my two or three fish. And sometimes I got him when I was fly fishing for him.
So you catch like a 10 pound striper on a fly rod, which is badass. Dude, I went to Mexico once and we went mahi mahi fishing and then they cooked it within an hour of us catching it.
I was like, oh my God, this is so much better than any fish I've ever had before. And then you realize that the more time it waits after it's dead, it goes to supermarkets, it's on a shelf, you lose all that.
You lose it. The flavor of them right when they pull it up, I'm like, this is the best fish I've ever had in my life.
It's incredible. Yeah.
It was so delicious. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's the best. You need to get one of those green lights on your dock.
Sounds like fun. Oh, man.
Deep Glow is the one. Yeah.
I'll send you the link for it. Okay.
It's super easy to do. And mine kicks on right before dark.
Oh, nice. Or if you get up early because they have the longest time to school on it.
So everything's silent. You go out there and smash a couple.
Sun comes up. It's great.
Oh, that's a good move. No, it's, and then you have kids too.
Right. It makes you actually a bad fisherman.
Because after that, you're just like, I don't feel like going out. Like, I'll just catch them tonight.
Right. And then everyone starts like marking your spots.
It's like the guys out here that hunt over deer feeders. Yeah.
Yeah. It works.
It does work. It works.
But they'll tell you, like, well, we hunt, but it's kind of like farming. Yeah.
It's fun. Yeah.
It's just different. Yeah.
It's not elk. No, it's definitely.
I mean, you're sitting down the whole day waiting, eating chips. It's a good time to catch up with emails, talk to your friends.
Yeah. Yeah.
There's a lot of that, like the ground blind guys, like to sit in ground blinds all day. It's a totally different thing.
I did it this morning. Yeah.
It's fun. I did it.
I enjoyed it. It was awesome.
It was fantastic. It's a great way to pig hunt.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
I stuck one two nights ago. The thing about pigs out here, too, is they actually have to hunt them.
Yes. So you're actually doing a service to the environment by getting food yeah and if you get a good butcher that can turn that into sausage it's fucking fantastic yeah my actually my little boy he killed his first pig last week uh he's eight years old what was it like when you ate it it was awesome we did it for thanksgiving when he's like wow he's so super cool So we yanked the back straps out.
I marinated it in Coke for like 36 hours. Coca-Cola? Coca-Cola.
Really? Yeah, I kind of broke it down. I learned that from Jen Rivett.
So she would do bear with like Dr. Pepper.
No kidding. Yeah.
Oh, they know how to cook some bears up there. Yeah, you know that work.
Yeah. So we did that and then like made a kind of like butter and all this kind of cool kind of drizzly deal, wrapped it in bacon, wrapped pork in bacon, and then put it on the grill.
It was freaking awesome. Do you know that guy? He's a cook.
He's on YouTube. What is his name? Guga.
G-U-G-A. Guga Foods.
He's always cooking steak, like different ways to cook steak. But the other way he did it the other day was he marinated it in buttermilk for like a week.
What? Yeah, took a steak marinated in buttermilk for a week and like when he pulled the steak out, he could see like the buttermilk was breaking the steak down. That's it, Guga Foods.
That dude. See if you can find his buttermilk steak one.
Oh, he cooks a brisket coca-cola this guy is every human way possible to cook a steak this guy's done it what's your favorite way to cook a steak i am a reverse sear guy same yeah i i got taught that by um chad from uh whiskey bent barbecue um he says that the best way particularly for wild game it's without a doubt it's the best way for wild game take it and so here it is with buttermilk so he did it one for 24 hours and he did one of them where he he sat in the buttermilk for a week and he said it was sensational maybe one of tracks yeah look at that oh yeah buttermilk just pulled we do that with ducks afterwards and afterwards and it pulls out a lot of stuff out there. That's awesome.
This guy knows how to cook some fucking steak. Yeah, let's do it.
My way is I like to use either Traeger or the best way, honestly, if I have the time, is I use an offset grill with actual hardwood. Sure.
So I'll cook, you know, get some live oak in there and I'll get it up to about 250 degrees and then i'll put the stakes in there with meat meter thermometers and i get it internally up to about 120 yeah and then either i sear it on a cast iron pan or i also have one of those um infrared yeah things what are those called again fuck they sent it to me i should shout them out um i know who uh sean baker uses them all the time but it's like a tray sean's awesome it's right yeah he's great and it runs on gas and so you just slide it in there and it's like an overhead grill what is it called auto wild grill that's it auto wild grill how about sean being a freak for eating a bunch of meat and being a giant person? 70 years old. He's fucking throwing insane weight around.
No TRT. Wild.
No nothing. Box squats.
I don't remember him from the throws days. Oh, do you really? He used to compete.
He's a big fucking dude, man. He's a monster.
And he's very smart. He is.
And anybody who says you can't only eat meat, you need to pay attention to him because that's all he eats. And he looks super fucking healthy.
And he's doing jujitsu and training. And, you know, he's older than me.
Yeah. He spoke at SummerStrong last year and came in.
And then he was deadlifting with everyone. He pulled like a six-something deadlift and then like 400 for 25 reps or something like that.
And he's just like, hey, I'm going to go have another steak. I'm like, got me kind of on it.
Eat steaks all day it's all he eats he doesn't take vitamins i don't think i know you've done carnivore i was actually i actually called sean about it because i was like all right i need to like give this a whirl but it's worth it it's worth doing yeah yeah it's legit yeah yeah i mean i don't i don't do it all the time you know i'll eat pasta if i feel like it I'll have vegetables if I feel like it. But I would say 90% of my food is meat.
Meat or eggs. Meat or eggs, yeah.
I think that's the most nutrient-dense food. My body reacts better when I'm not running on carbohydrates.
I'm running on ketones or when your body processes protein and turns it into glucose, which is just more regulated for me for me you know you do whatever you want but i would say try it if you're a person that eats meat i would say give it a shot just give it a month one month i did one time i lost 12 pounds i felt fucking great i had all this energy and i was like oh okay i'm poisoning myself i'm like limiting my limiting my performance at least my mental performance right yeah i started getting on it a month or two ago just a bit. I was like limiting my, limiting my performance, at least my mental performance.
Right. Yeah.
I started getting on it a month or two ago, just a bit. I was like, yeah, I give it a shot.
I was eating a ton of venison, but gosh, I love blackberries. Blackberries and cottage cheese, I think are like the weirdest thing that I just, I could eat it.
I don't think there's anything wrong with fruit. You know, that's like Paul Saladino's move.
I eat fruit. So what Paul does is he incorporates fruit, honey, and raw dairy with meat.
Okay. And then Sean just eats meat.
Yeah. But I can't imagine an argument where fruit's bad for you.
I would say don't eat all the fruit. Right.
That's the problem. I could bomb.
But have a couple oranges or have a couple bananas or a bowl of blueberries with some yogurt. Why is that bad? It can't be bad Can't be bad, right? No, they're they're good for you.
They're filled with vitamins. They taste good It's like it's also it's enjoyable to eat a piece of melon tastes good.
It's fun. Hey again I'm not trying to be the goat at eating blueberries I think the number one thing is don't eat bullshit And when you go on a carnivore diet, you are automatically cutting out a lot of bullshit.

You're cutting out a lot of like enriched wheat and processed fucking grains and all this bullshit.

And you're cutting out pesticides that might be on your shit.

There's a lot of things you're cutting out when you're just eating steak.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you eat a lot of whitetail or no?

Yeah.

Sure.

Yeah.

I mean, if I get one. Sure.
I have one in the freezer now. You're 19 elk a year.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Do you eat a lot of whitetail or no? Yeah.
Sure. Yeah.
I mean, if I get one. Sure.
I have one in the freezer now. You're 19 elk a year.
Yeah. Two.
But I got two whitetails last year, too. That's awesome.
I turned them into sausages. Yeah.
I, you know, cooked the back straps and butter and garlic. Oh, back straps of butter and garlic.
Dude. That's one that a lot of times I just like to cook on a cast iron pan.
Yes. Especially whitetail.
There's something about whitetail tenderloins with butter and garlic. That is hard to beat.
That's my kid's favorite food. So hard to beat.
A little salt, garlic, butter. Cracked pepper.
So stupid good. Oh, my God.
So good. My son and I will eat easily a full loin.
And you feel fantastic. It's unbelievable.
You feel the vitamins in the meat. That's what an animal is supposed to make you feel like when you eat it.
Whitetail gets a bat and it's like, oh, just a whitetail. Whitetails are great.
People are silly. Yeah, they are.
People are so silly when it comes to, I know people don't even eat their elk. They don don't eat their elk they go elk hunting and then they donate it to the church a lot of work for they just like to hunt which i mean i guess okay because you're providing people with free food and it doesn't go to waste but it's the best food in the world and you're not eating it yeah the best that seems so crazy to me yeah yeah you know i cook up every week i cook up like a I cook up like a bunch of elk meat in a bunch of different ways.
Yep. And then I have it in the fridge.
So that's my meal prep for the week. I saw that.
Do you eat it cold? Cold with hot sauce. Is that the move? That's what I like to do.
I like to take a plate. All right.
Put some meat on there. Dump some hot sauce on the plate and just dip it in the hot sauce and eat cold.
Any good hot sauce? Any specific? Well, I like it hot. I actually have my own little collaboration that I did with Senor Lechuga.
Oh, I saw that. It's three different hot sauces.
One of them comes from my friend Andrew at Half Face Blades. He had one.
It was so good. I said, can I include that one because I'm doing a collaboration.
We made an agreement. So it's like it has the Half Face Blades logo on it as well.
That with um sun-dried peppers i saw that tell you what all the stuff is go to the senior lechuga i made my son uh i got andy to make me a half face blade for me my dad and my two boys so they all matching and the goal of it was you either carry your dad's your son's or your or your brother's knife so we all switch oh that's and i cut my uh my son who's eight years old now i cut his umbilical cord with his knife which is yeah which is weird i sent that that's heavy yeah it was awesome i rubbed his first drop of blood into the handle give him that knife so heirloom tomatoes winter truffle and reapers now we're talking yeah that's andy's and that one fucking rules but the other ones rule too. The habanera, urfa, chili, paprika.
That's a fucking banger. But these are hot, hot sauces.
Where can I buy these now? SenorLechuga.com. Sweet.
SenorLechugaHotsauce.com. Awesome.
Have you ever done a deer leg? If you can't. I'm not like a hot, hot.
I'm not going to be tasty. It's tasty.
Okay. But it's going to fuck you up if you're not ready.
It's really like that. Yeah, it's real.
That guy makes hot sauce. It's got reapers in it.
It's legit. It kicks your ass.
I sweat. My kids make fun of me because I'm bald.
So when I sweat, it's just pouring down my face. They're like what is wrong with you it's like i'm a sweater

have you ever done a deer leg like the flip-flop style you ever seen the uh what do you mean any flip-flop guy i have to cook it for you sometime so badass so you get a deer leg with a shank still on it super hot grill um put it on the coals like well the grill is like it's hot as shit like 1100 or he's like cooking, right?

He blasted.

So he has this special sauce

and his granddad, I believe,

is... Well, the grill is hot as shit.
Okay. Like 1,100 or he's cooking, right? Blasting.

So he has this special sauce, and his granddad, I believe, started it.

It's this special sauce that's like – The way to flip-flop.

Flip-flop, yeah.

Best way to grill venison.

All right, let me see what you got.

Yeah, so you basically get this sauce.

You mix it with wine. You paint it with a rosemary brush you salt and pepper it and then you flip it you just put it down on the grill 30 seconds okay while you're cooking that side you're painting the other side salt and pepper in it you flip it you shave the first quarter inch and then so that size and so the long as it takes you to shave the first quarter inch, repaint it, re-salt and pepper it, and then you flip it.
And so when you're in it, you're going to consume an entire deer leg in the next hour and a half and you're in it. Oh, you know what that's like? It's so freaking good.
That's like Brazilian steakhouse. Yeah, exactly.
Like a Chuhas Korea. But it just boom, boom, boom, boom.
So we'll do it at parties. And you're like, you get a couple dudes, you get your boys and you're bourbon.
Oh, look at that. And just slicing pieces off.
You slice it, and it's so good, man. That looks sensational.
It's ridiculous. Oh, my God.
He taught me how to do it. And I've actually gone to a couple events and helped him out.
But I've cooked him at birthday parties. Oh, that's a great idea.
It's so dope. You know what I want to do? I'm supposed to hunt with Rinella in March.
Maybe we'll try that. Yeah.
If you want me to know, I'll freaking cook one for you. I'm sure you could do that with any other wild game, too.
Yeah, we've done it with sheep. We've done it.
Elk is kind of a monster. Well, it's such a big leg.
Yeah. But if you have a smaller sort of.
That is. That's the move.
And now you'll paint it. And then you'll salt pepper in it.
Dig us. Knife like that so you don't burn your knuckles.
That looks fucking great. It's insane.
And what is in the sauce again? He won't tell me exactly, but it's- What the fuck? Come on, Andy, get with it. He won't tell you.
What kind of bullshit is that? It has all kinds of- So there it is. Two bottles of Private Reserve, our flagship sauce.
Oh, it's the sauce. Well, it's the sauce, yeah.
He won't tell you what's in the sauce. One bottle of red wine, Cabernet or Zinfandel will work, depending on if you're non-binary.
Salt and pepper to taste, one quarter cup to one half bottle of rosemary-infused olive oil. Boy, that's a big gap.
Quarter cup to a half bottle. It's like a glug, glug, glug when you drink bourbon.
Three to to four loaves of french bread several sprigs of fresh rosemary it's awesome sounds pretty fucking good dude it's burt i think we did like three hours and 20 minutes how long have we done up more three three and a half three thirty let's know evan hafer but dude time just flew by super fun it's a lot of fun man thank you very much thanks for too. Thanks.
I just tell everybody, you outfitted my gym at home. It's fucking incredible.
Thanks, man. Keeps me from going nuts.
It's the best. I love all your equipment.
It's fucking so fantastic. You know what I use almost every day is that Frankenhyper? Yeah.
That thing is so versatile. Back feeling better? Oh, it's so great.
It's such a good device because you can do reverse hypers. You can do back extensions.
do sit-ups off of it you do so many different things off of it well i have a new module come and we're relaunching it so if you want bring your old one here and i'll put the new one in your house what are you going to do what is the it has some uh some assisted and resisted abilities so you could do some some if you're not quite as strong you're coming back return to play so there's some different stuff that you could do with it okay well you're very innovative man your stuff is really cool um and you you've also outfitted the whole ufc pi center like go there it's all sorenix shit it's cool when trying man whenever i go to a gym and i see sorenix makes me feel happy it's cool appreciate it. I'll be honest.
It makes me feel really happy when I see you wear SorenX shirts.

It's like, man, that's dope.

Like, I appreciate that.

My pleasure, brother.

Thank you.

All right.

Website?

SorenX.com.

SorenX.com.

There it is.

It's the UFC PI.

That's all SorenX equipment.

Social media.

What's your Instagram?

I'm Bert Soren.

All right.

And there's the new machine, the X Factor, that we just got today here at the studio.

All right.

My brother.

Thanks very much.

Thanks, Jeff.

All right.

Bye, everybody.