#2214 - Shane Smith

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What's up?

How are you?

Good to see you.

Good to see you.

What you been up to, man?

That's a loaded question.

I'm doing a podcast now.

You are doing a podcast now.

Yeah, yeah.

When did you start?

Yeah, yeah.

A couple months ago. What made you want to do that? Just get tired of being on the outside looking in? That's it.
Yeah. You know, you actually, I'm going to paraphrase you, so you've got to tell me the exact quote.
Okay. But you said COVID was a fucked up time.
and I went in thinking that vaccines were the, the, the pinnacle of human technology and came out thinking that the moon landing wasn't real. And Michelle Obama's got a dick.
And I was like, I was me. Yeah.
Like during COVID, I was like, I became obsessed with social media and, and X and like, just looking at shit and whatever. And I'm like, what's true what's not true like what's what like because everybody's speaking so forcibly this is what one question I wanted to ask you is you talked to all these dudes all the time one of the things I missed like I would be I would be talking to people and be like oh this is going off gas and I'd be like oh I was just there that's not what's happening or you know this is happening as an Iraq oh I was just I love talking to people I love meeting people and be like, oh, this is going on off Gaston.
And I'll be like, oh, I was just there. That's not what's happening.
Or, you know, this is happening as an Iraq. Oh, I was just there.
I love talking to people. I love meeting people.
And I love sort of knowing stuff. Like, you can just say, well, I'm going to go there.
I'm going to figure it out. Right.
So I saw all this stuff on social media. And I was like, wow.
You know, there's all this stuff. But no one's really going after it and saying, like, as an investigative journalist, saying, well, what's real? What's not real? What's true? what's not true? Right.
You are. You're getting in there.
There's a few people doing it. Yeah.
They're all investigative journalists. They're all independent.
Yeah. They're all completely outside of any kind of Washington Post, New York Times.
Which is great. Which is the only way to do it.
It's impossible to exist in mainstream media and be legitimate now. There's going to be guardrails.
100%.'s 100 yeah there's there's no you talk to everybody and I that must be fascinating because you get the inside track like your brain is like a wealth of information yeah it's like I had a an unexpected education yeah you know likeated, unplanned education in all sorts of things.

Yeah, and these guys are super interesting, and you get to learn, and that's amazing.

It's pretty amazing.

Yeah.

I mean, you learn a lot of bullshit, too.

Like, some of the stuff you learn is not true.

Well, that's the problem.

Yeah.

I got a question.

Yeah.

Bobby Kennedy seems to be, like, so fast. I remember I used to watch Tony Blair during question period and he'd

leap up and he'd be like blah blah blah.

He knew everything and the facts and stuff.

You've

interviewed him a bunch of times?

I've talked to him many times. I interviewed him once.

Is he that good in person? Oh yeah.

He's legit. I mean he was an

environmental attorney. That was

his background.

He's had a crazy life. Imagine you're 14 years old and your dad gets killed by who knows.
Who knows. But it might be the government.
That's my first episode. Yeah.
Assassinations. Deep state.
Getting into it. Well, it's a real thing.
You know, I don't know who's doing it or what faction or how small the amount of people are that are involved in i mean imagine if you're like a legitimate person working for the cia and you think that the cia is trying to assassinate trump and you're like what the fuck you know or or whoever that's our first episode it's got to be i mean it's got to be a small faction of intelligence agencies that want to do things. How many people do you think were involved in the Kennedy assassination? So there's a guy named Peter Dale Scott who actually wrote the book on the deep state and brought the concept over from Turkey to here and broke it.
And if you talk to him, so he was really involved or wrote about or covered the – they tried to assassinate Castro. the first American deep state thing which is like by the way, it's that's that's factual That's like oh, yeah, there were the mob and Cubans and the CIA and they tried to commit many times They tried to kill them and it failed.
Yeah, and then You know that sort of morphed and there's all this sort of mix into the Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy, Robert RFK assassination attempts that this guy was referencing. And you're just like, deep state has such a negative connotation to it because it's like conspiracy-ish.
But you're like, when it got explained to me by the guys who sort of coined the terms, which is, you know, like there's the intelligence agencies or the Pentagon, career bureaucrats, who, by the way, go back and forth. It's a rotating door.
They go to Raytheon. They go to Boeing.
They go and they get the contract. Trillions of dollars.
And they act in cahoots with each other. And you're like, yeah, that makes total fucking sense.
Of course. It's a business relationship.
It's a business relationship. And then if they have something that needs to happen, you have all kinds of people who will do that thing for you.
Yes. So it's not why.
Yeah, exactly. It's not bureaucrats in the CIA.
Yeah, it could literally be one guy who's a top executive. Or a hundred.
Or, you know, a few people that come to a conclusion and don't even have to say it and then a plan gets hatched yeah and then next thing you know there's a guy on a roof yeah we're already into yeah i can just see the fucking tweets up here but the tweets but it but for sure like it's like i found that fascinating. Not only – so I started doing like the snipers.

We got the sniper, fascinating dude.

He has the longest confirmed kill, 3.5 kilometers.

So we started just talking technical shit.

And you're like, okay, could it be done?

And the sniper's like, what do the snipers have to say?

And then we got to the head of the guy who trained all the Secret Service people.

And we got that – actually, we got Trump's head of security for 18 years, personal head of security guy. First time he ever talked.
He was great, great guy. Keith Schiller.
And then we got into it and then everyone started talking about the deep state, deep state, what the fuck is the deep state? Like I know what the deep state people think is. That's the other thing is online everyone has so many givens.
Right. You know like in math one plus one is a given.
So there's so many givens you're like well let's look at the givens like what is the deep state so i met i literally went after the guy who coined the phrase and he's like and i'm like oh yeah that sounds completely i mean i know those guys it's like that sounds completely believable and then so when you believe that then you start saying okay well how do these things look like? What do they look like? It's fascinating. But I mean, look, I'm into all this stuff.
And then you're there like all day, every day doing it. It must be fascinating.
I love it. So I did get sick in my long winded answer.
I did get sick of being on the outside looking at it. It is fascinating, but I like the way I do it because I get to talk to talk to anybody i want to like i don't have to just deal with things that are disturbing yeah i can you know talk to someone who's a beekeeper i can talk to someone who you know makes cabinets like yeah you made you made your own empire which is fucking awesome well it's just what i'm interested in it just happens to be that a lot of people are interested in these things so it's lucky and it's also because i'm actually interested in it i don't have to have fake conversations yeah like there's no one i have on where i'm like i can't believe i'm talking right you know like well you see that right you see that in like late night talk shows they don't want to be interviewing this person it's too much yeah it's nonsense well vice this episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog.
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That's 10% off at tecovas.com slash Rogan. When you started Vice, it was one of the most refreshing news sources because it was like these intelligent people that didn't seem like regular journalists they seem like just people that you know because they weren't yeah they were just people right they seem like normal people yeah and yet all of a sudden they're wearing a flak jacket in a war zone yeah they seem like normal people and they're hanging out in a hot tub in thailand that was it's like it was normal people that were interested like vice guy to travel that one with uh hindmo's arctic adventures yeah that is till today one of my favorite videos you guys i fucking love that story because it's amazing you've got this guy that lives in uh you know remote human yeah like in this tiny cabin he's been there since the 1970s he doesn't even he He saw 9-11 in a photograph.
That's all he knows about it. He doesn't have any television up there.
He gets VHS tapes occasionally and watches them on a tiny TV. And he just lives in this subsistence lifestyle, just fishing and hunting and living off the land.
And an intelligent, interesting, articulate guy. And he seems way happier than most people i know for sure yeah he was the most remote human until we found those people in russia and then like siberia who had run from stalin and this family who had gone up into the mountains and just lived there for like 80 years whoa by themselves like made shoes out of bark and like totally self-sustaining up in the mountains of Siberia.
Like they thought that, you know, they didn't know about the moon landing. They didn't know about like.
What kind of gene pool do they have? Not a lot. I think there was a lot of.
Inbreeding. Yeah.
Oh, God. Yeah.
How many people were there? I don't know. You can look.
I don't know. It's like there was six when they found them, I think, and one was like 80 who was the youngest or something.
Oh, God. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Crazy story, though. Yeah, so they ran from Stalin, just stayed alive.
They thought Stalin was like, you know, still there. Oh, my God.
Isn't it funny? You can't name a kid Adolf, but you can name a kid Joseph. There you go.
Isn't that weird? No. It's a little weird.
Joseph was too common. Yeah, Joseph was very common.
But wasn't Adolf really common with the Germans? I don't know. Maybe.
I don't know. I mean, Joseph is everywhere.
I know. That's like a Bible.
There's no Adolf in the Bible, so didn't make the cut. Didn't make the cut.
But when you guys were, you know, you know when it was young it was like it was new internet right because Internet opened up a bunch of different possibilities and it opened up possibilities for legitimate independent journalism and legitimate independent thinkers who were really disconnected from the sort of stiff stuffy mainstream perspective of what's going on in

life and you guys gave you get you guys gave a completely unfiltered perspective as a normal human who's experiencing these bizarre circumstances in these exotic lands and it was awesome man it It was awesome.

And then now it's this bizarre propaganda machine that's ideologically captured to the point where it's preposterous like they say things that are just so outlandish and so not in tune with logic or objectivity it's it's so strange to see going from what you made to what it is now. Yeah, look, I mean, I could get into the nuances, which are many and boring, but basically what happens is, you know, and I actually called it from the beginning.
I said, look, we're going to get too big, and at that point, we're going to become the thing that we're like we were a challenger brand. And we're going to become the status quo.
And then we're going to get our asses kicked, A. B, I said, look, all internet is now consolidating and media is consolidating.
And everybody's consolidating because they have to. Because the big five are taking all the money.
And we knew it was coming, but it came. Like, look, I'll tell you another thing.
In media, you know, there's not a lot of people picking shit. Like, you get to pick shit because you run your own shop.
You're the man. But, like, when you run media, it's like people put on what people watch.
That's the rule. Like like you just put on shit and people watch it and then like if you say i want to do this and nobody watches it then you don't get to say i want to do this that often so and we always had a thing where we gave the company over to the interns if we just stayed a gen x free giveaway we would have never gotten into video in fact when we into video, we were derided by the old guys for selling out because going to online video was seen as a sellout because we should have stayed at a magazine.
So we used to give it over to the interns. And then the interns just, they had a different fucking everything.
They had a different philosophy. They had a different subject.
They had a different fucking everything. And they were going.
And by the way, the traffic was still there. And I was the same.
I was looking at, what the fuck is this? What the fuck is going on? And they're like, well, that's the traffic and your fucking things that you like gets no traffic because you're an old man. So anyway, I was semi-retired for a number of years.
And, you know, look. When did you get out?

I moved to L.A.

I'm just trying to remember now, 15, 15, 16, around there.

So I moved to L.A. because our biggest clients were there,

the biggest platforms were there, no one was out there.

And, you know, I had kids and I was like, okay, like I can move to the country and commute into New York or I can move to L.A. So I moved to L.A.
and that started a whole – that was not smart in retrospect because you leave and it starts like Game of Thrones shit. And then also, quite frankly, if you want to know the metaphysical fucking reasons why, I can get into it.

Okay.

All right. I love metaphysical reasons.
There you go. The best time for Vice, the time that you're talking about, the time that I loved was, you know, you would go, before all the big investors and everything, you would go to like Italy, right? And you would get an apartment and, you you know you get a girlfriend and you find an office and you hire people that look like you or hang out like you or just are cool or whatever and you would build it you would buy the fucking computers on your credit card and you would fucking go to the grandmother's place for fucking lunch in cinque terra you would like fucking know, figure out all the cool places to hang out with you,

with your friends and stuff.

And then you'd have a big party and everyone would come

and advice would be launched.

Then you'd get on a train and go to Sweden

and do the same thing.

You'd live there for six months.

You'd build something.

It was tangible.

The mag would come out.

You'd start shooting stuff.

And it would be fucking awesome.

And then when it got to be like you fly in

and you meet with lawyers and accountants and it's shit and then you fly out again the next day it's terrible right right and so when that happened i was like um i won't do this anymore and i'm not good at it like i was good at building i'm good at building i'm good at like founders. Right, right.
One of the smart things you've done is, like, just keep your own shit your own shit. And I got, you know, my eyes were too big for my stomach in a way because you're just like, let's keep going.
The big thing, too, is keep it small. Keep it small, dude.
Keep it small. Keep it small.
It's just me and Jamie, and we have a video editor that's not even local. He just gets it on the Internet.
And also, Jamie is super good vibes, which is much else. Yeah, no, which is the best but it's it's the most important I have friends that have big podcasts and they have like this huge staff yeah and they have all these people running around like what all these people do and it's like they want this feeling of they're the boss of a bunch of employees yeah for some reason like they want all these production people that are creating content.
But then you have inner office conflicts and they're always putting out fires and people are complaining and then people leave and make videos talking about what a piece of shit boss you were. And it's like, hey man, you're dealing in this thing where there's currency in that information.
There's currency for these mediocre people. So you hire these mediocre people and these mediocre people attack you because there's currency in attacking you, but you didn't need them in the first place.
This whole thing was stupid. You're making a little bit more money, but you have more problems, but you don't notice that money.
You have to pay attention to what you notice, right? Whatever the fuck you have in your bank account, if you're a fairly wealthy person and you have $100 more, $100 less, $1,000 more, $1,000 less, you don't notice it. But I'll tell you what you do notice.
You notice hassle. You notice problems.
Those problems are worth a lot of money to get rid of. If you had a bunch of employees like, fuck, what can I do? There people it's so annoying god i wish we were small again getting back to small again is a grind you gotta fire people it's a you gotta downsize you gotta figure out how to do it that's a mess man you don't want that mess so that extra money that you got by making things too big you fucked yourself you got greedy you you looked at it the wrong like someone said to me like i was in the park on the comedy store this friend of mine was not even very successful was like um i'm uh trying to find a new assistant i go why do you need a new assistant he goes you don't have an assistant i go no i go this is what you do do less shit if you need an assistant you're doing too many things do less shit don't fucking assistant.
You have an assistant, you have what happens to David Spade. The guy shows up with duct tape and a taser and tries to kill you.
Remember that? Because they wind up resenting you. Because if you've got some person who's working for you, he's making $50,000 a year, and you're making $50 million.
They want to kill you. After a while, they're like, I'm a part of this too.
They don't think of it as this is a great job. This job could eventually lead to something bigger.
People get resentful. Also, the type of people that are 34 years old, they're working as an assistant, probably a little fucked up, probably made some mistakes, probably not really on the right path in life.
Now, all of a sudden, you're connected at the hip to this person. And then they want to tell you about their problems.
And maybe you've got an ex-wife. Or maybe they've got a this.
And if they're making more money, they're going to make more money. And so because you wanted to appear like you have a – everybody wants a big organization.
Like Vice is big now. You know, the JRE, we have a thousand employees worldwide.
We have three employees. Yeah, smart.
You know, Harvard should hire you to teach business because that is 100% of it. No, that's this business.
But listen, it's so fucking right. Like you just said what's in my fucking brain.
Like 100% of that is true. Everyone should listen to this guy because it is 100% true.
Run a tight ship. Yeah, exactly.
younger you're like oh fuck and look yeah fucking punk kid that came from nothing and so like when you have employees there's a there is actually a harvard thing where they say there's a there's a there's a paradox where you hire somebody because you want to have someone to help you but they're not as good as you and you hire someone who's not as good as you and then you hire someone who's not as good as them so and then you hire someone who's not as good as them. So then all this stuff, and you have to do more work.
There's more hassles. Then you have a whole group of people reporting to you, and this is exactly not how to run a business.
And I even knew that going in. And then you hire, and you're exactly right, and you hire all these people.
All they need to do is be in the same room as you. Yeah.
And then that's access. And once there's access, then you're exactly what you said.
Then you deal with their issues. And you deal with everything.

Shane,

can I pull you aside for a second?

There's a project that my friend and I are working on.

I'd really like to get you involved.

Yeah.

Oh.

But yeah,

no,

it got too,

it definitely got too big.

And you're exactly right.

Like,

look,

you're a wise dude because like you keep it small.

You're exactly right.

That's like,

after having learned what I've learned, like we have a tiny little team that makes this thing.

And it's super, uh, like, it's like the early days of vice where you're just you're just making shit and talking to people and chopping it up and doing stuff and trying new shit out and do well one week it'll be like this and the other week it'll be like that and we'll just fucking do everything it's so much more fucking fun you're 100% right yeah fun is the most important thing like if you Brian Cowell said this to me once and it's a really great advice he goes the he goes all you really want is to be able to go to a restaurant and not worry about what things cost yeah everything else is bullshit 100 it's true everything else is bullshit 100 you get used to cars you get used to houses like i i realized like early on i got an apartment when i lived in north hollywood it's like the first nice apartment i had but after i was in it a couple weeks it was just my house yeah just like the house i have now it's not that much different it's just like you're home okay great what do you need you need a couch need a tv you need a bedroom you need a kitchen that's all you need hopefully it doesn't stink hopefully it doesn't suck hopefully your neighbors aren't. Hopefully it'll be nice if you have a view.
That's cute. I'll go a step further than that.
I don't know about you, but you accumulate shit. Because I never had anything.
I got into watches. I got into shit.
I got into art. Then I got, I don't even fucking drive.
I got Johnny Cash's fucking car from 1969. What kind of car is that? So in 1969, Johnny Cash had the number one show in America, and ABC got him a one-of-a-kind Rolls-Royce, extra long body, all black, black mahogany interior.
And check this out. So I got it.
So it was me and Wayne Newton. But you remember, I used to gamble.
I was in Vegas, won a bunch of money. I actually had to fly to China, and my buddy stayed there, and it was me and Wayne Newton bidding against each other for Johnny Cash's car.
And when we got it, it was like burning fucking fuel oil. It was just black smoke coming out.
Oh, yeah, they're terrible. So I turned it into a Tesla.

No.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's fucking awesome, dude.

It's awesome.

We chopped it.

We kept everything.

Where is this?

Is it online?

Can I see this thing?

You can see it.

Yeah, yeah.

Did you put it online?

No.

No?

But there's a picture.

I'll show it to you.

Can you send it to Jamie so we can see it?

Just pull up Johnny Cash's Rolls Royce, 1969.

It's a black, all black Rolls Royce.

So I turned it into a Tesla, redid the whole interior.

Who did that for you?

I'd have to get the fucking name.

That's it?

Oh, look at that.

What would Johnny Cash feel about his Rolls Royce getting Tesla power?

I think you'd fucking love it because I was out with Rick Rubin in that car yesterday. But that's Johnny Cash, not Johnny Carson.
Johnny Cash. Right.
Didn't you say Johnny Carson? No, Johnny Cash. You said he had the number one show on TV? Yeah, the Johnny Cash Variety Hour.
Oh, my God. I thought you said Johnny Carson.
ABC gave him this car. And, yeah, I was with Rick Rubin in that yesterday.
We were driving around in it. It's, and it, it drives, it's so fucking fast and it drives like a fucking crazy boat.
Wow. You gotta come out.
Yeah. Drive it.
Fuck. It's awesome.
So you took a Tesla model S and converted it. Yeah.
These are the dudes who did it. Wow.
And we read it all that wood now. So it's all the original black mahogany from from so when the batteries go bad you can just swap the batteries out plug it in no you just no but eventually the batteries will deteriorate to the point where you will get really low mileage you probably get low mileage already right that thing's heavy as shit it's heavy as shit yeah god that's beautiful you must have to upgrade the brakes in a big way because it's car, though.
It's such a good car. Because when I came out to LA, I'm like, I'm going to get a shit brown Agatha Christie Rolls-Royce and an MS-13 driver with, like, the full 13 and, like, a safety controller.
Am I late for the party? Hello. And so I got this one, and I'm just – it's fucking awesome.
Wow, that's so cool. They're doing there's ever heard of the company called everati yeah they're they do the electric the swap overs yeah they do swap overs for i know they do porsches i think they do a mustang as well but they take these classic cars the problem is like you you're not supposed to do that you're not supposed to do it this thing was fucked though i will say this i don't have any desire to have one of these things, but I think they're dope as fuck.
They're dope as fuck. But the thing is, for me, I see that.
Oh, that's disgusting. Get that off the screen.
That does disturb you to no one. You took a GT40 and turned it electric.
The thing about those old cars is the mechanical feel, and that is 90% of the experience of driving one of those old cars. Well, this car barely ran.
It was fucked. Yeah, but you could restomod it.
You could restomod it. Anyway, I love it.
The thing is, they're supposed to have ... I could see doing it with Johnny Cash's car.
It's kind of funny, but you do it into that. You should go to jail.
You do that to a GT40, you should go right to jail. What's the horsepower as it is? It's pretty good, right? Well, not really.
Originally, you know, this is Ferrari versus Ford. This is the original car.
I actually have the next version of that, which is the Ford GT. I have one of the 2005 ones that's a stick shift.
I feel like if you drive a car like that, you have to drive a manual. It can only go 160 miles.
Right. And that's if you're driving like a grandma.
But it has 800 horsepower. It's probably fast as shit.
You know, electric cars are different than any other car in terms of the speed that you get. Yeah.
The way it feels. You just go whoosh.
Yeah. But there's no sound.
That car is... That's that car.
That car is visceral. It's exciting.
There's an engine behind you. It's like, let's go, baby.
Come on, Shane. You love it.
You feel it in the turns. You want to feel the bumps.
You want to feel the fucking steering in your hand, the wiggling of the tires. It's a ride.
It's not efficient. It's not supposed to be efficient.
It's an experience. It's a sensory overload.
It's not just transportation. That's why turning one of those things into electric is gross.
I did it because it was burning fuel. It was burning black smoke.
It barely fucking ran. That car's fine.
LaBros is fine. I love it.
But the thing my long-winded answer to that question was I started, I collected all this shit.

And like you were saying, it doesn't bring you any fucking that.

It may be cars for you because you drive.

So I just go, you know what?

All of that shit.

I was just talking to Rick about this too.

Like I'm just going to get rid of it.

Like the more I free myself from that shit and all that stuff.

Yes.

You're just like, you know what?

Psychic burden.

I used to go, speaking of the old days of ice, I had everyone used to laugh because I'd go for literally years with a backpack. And I'd just be like, well, I can buy all I wear is black jeans and a black t-shirt.
I would just buy new ones if I need something. I used to go to a pharmacy.
To this day, if I go to a fucking pharmacy in a foreign country, I'm stoked. Because it means I'm getting shit that I need, like shampoo and fucking toothpaste

and little scissors from my nose hairs and shit.

And that means I'm on top of my game.

I'm fucking ready to go.

I'm going to fucking interview people and do shit.

Because I'm gone to the fucking pharmacy.

And I love going to fucking supermarket

because you're just like, I'm going to buy some fucking food

and then we're going to go do some work

and it's going to be fucking awesome.

That shit gives me pleasure. Fucking a watch or fucking a car or shoes or fucking nothing.
Yeah. Most of those, they're cool.
They're cool. I'm interested in engineering and artwork, right? And that's why I have so much art in this place.
I love people's expression. Yeah.
And I feel like cars are artwork.

That's how I view cars.

Sure.

Especially old cars.

Yeah.

I have a lot of old cars.

And those old, like, big.

Art deco cars.

Muscle cars.

Old muscle cars.

1960s to early 1970s muscle cars.

That's what I love.

I love them.

I love them.

I drive them like they're just, it's like I'm an amusement park ride.

That's how I feel about them.

And I just, when I was a kid, those were the cars that everybody wanted.

So,

I don about them. And I just, when I was a kid, those were the cars that everybody wanted.
So to me, it's like, I get a real joy out of those. But if I didn't have them, I'd be fine.
If I just drove my Tesla to work every day, I would be fine. Like the level of happiness you get in terms of like how much you have to work for some things, it's not worth it.
It's not worth it. Too many people strive for this thing that doesn't give you anything back.
It's just this thing that's hard. Just because something's hard to get doesn't mean it's good to get.
And there's a lot of things that people strive for that are difficult to achieve, but they're not valuable when you get there. No.
Speaking of psychology, yeah, like you talk about old muscle cars. The car I learned to drive was my grandmother's car that she gave to my cousin.
And when I was 13, he was 16. This episode is brought to you by Call of Duty.
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And it was a Nova SS. It was an old, like, fucking so, so good.
I have a 69. It's so beautiful.
I have a 69 that has been completely redone by this guy Steve Stroop. So nice.
And it's the craziest mess ever. Love it.
This one's incredible because it's a complete restomod. It's understated.
It's not like it's a powerful beast and it's badass looking. But it's not like a Ferrari.
Ferraris can be beautiful. It's different.
It's different.

It's a different flex.

Yeah.

You know, the Ferrari, you just have money.

That's a Nova.

That's it.

That's mine.

That's my 69 Nova. I love it.

Look at that fucking thing.

That's like exactly.

Hers was gold.

I still remember that.

Mine is like, it's got 1969 Camaro fenders.

So they made it like wider so they could fit larger tires and tubbed it out. It's all custom.
It has a supercharged LT4. Her engine did not look like that.
Yeah, it's a very efficient driving car, but it's just so fun. It's just like you drive that thing.
It's just this experience of sounds. And to me, it's like those cars are the ones that resonate with me you know so i have but if i only had one i would be fine i just like them every now and then but they're not they're not the thing they're not the end all be all they're not family friends love community there's all these things that people put those objects above they put

above everything in your life you strive for that thing because it's a symbol of success yeah and it's nonsense so I had a speaking of psychological damage as for things I grew up poor about it went out with a very rich girl and it was her birthday right we're in France was her birthday and her uncle had forgotten her birthday. And so he's just like, oh, here, you know, take my watch kind of thing.
And they're like, no, no, no. Like, you know, that watch is like $50,000 watch, whatever.
And I was like, there's no fucking watch that's worth $50,000. Like $50,000, like, that was a watch? And it was like a classic Patek fucking moon phase, whatever.
And I remember clocking the watch. And when I got money, I became obsessed with the classic Patek, which is now like 500 grand.
It's not 50 grand. The moon face.
That's so crazy that a watch is $500,000. Oh, some of them are like $5 million.
Isn't that nuts? Yes. And so.
Like those Richard Mille watches? Yeah. I mean the most expensive are still Patex.
But, yeah, like those ones are – I mean rare ones. Like I was obsessed with – so I like the Paul Newman Panda.
But they have like the lemon or the champagne panda, which is the gold version of that, which they made like four of. And I was chasing that down.
And now I'm like, what the fuck? You can't fucking wear it. Right.
Like every place I go, you can't fucking wear anything. Like I was flying here, and you can't put it through security.
So what the fuck is it? Why can't you put it through security? You think they would snatch it? Oh, fuck. Watches get snatched all the time.
Yeah, but then where's my watch? Yeah. It's just like it goes goes through the little thing.
Like, how fast are these people going to get rid of the watches? It's not happened to me, although I have nearly lost them many times, because, you know, you have a few ales on the plane, and take your shit off, and put it in the box, and then you... Oh, no.
I've never done it, but it's been close calls, but there's so many stories in the watch world about, you're going through customs, you're going through security, you somewhere someone takes your phone i've had a lot of people who are like how much does that watch and you're like uh it's fake i always just say it's fake anyway so i'm getting rid of all that shit just because you're like it doesn't fucking mean anything yeah and what actually does mean shit is like like you were saying like you know learning educate like like making shit but also at the same time like going like i'm learning shit yeah it's fun getting fucking happy look i'm fucking back talking to you i'm it's like it's an it's fucking interesting it's good for your brain positivity you know yeah it's good for your mental health good for your mental it's also it's what life is about growth. It's about learning.
It's about experiencing things. And when you get an opportunity to talk to someone, like I talked to this woman the other day, Diane Boyd.
She wrote this book, A Woman Amongst Wolves. Right.
She spent her entire life tracking wolves and handling them and collaring them and studying them. And she lived in a cabin in the woods for years by herself with no water and no electricity love it yeah fascinating like just like you're a totally different type of person than i've ever experienced what's your life like what do you do like what do you think about i'm hooked already think about that yeah i love wolves yeah i mean it's to me there's so many opportunities in this life to be stimulated by exciting and interesting things where you can learn about stuff.
100%. And if you can figure out how that's your job and it's not just something that you do on the bus on the way home, but it's actually your job, that's a good life.
Definitely. I mean, for me, that's what I love doing.
I like talking to people and I like learning. And I like, you know, if you're learning shit, then other people, obviously, do podcasts.
learning and it's just it's it's an awesome thing to be able to do is there a way to do something like the original vice but just keep it small that's what we're trying to never let it grow like listen the vice news right now is me and i'm i'm making podcasts i'm doing shit that i find interesting is it still vice do you call it vice yeah i mean vice so are you still one of the owners like how does it work i mean it's it's complicated you don't have to get in the woods it's complicated i mean it's complicated i'm not like i i i was the largest shareholder and then i went to owning nothing i lost the most out of anybody not that i'm asking anybody to fucking cry for me anything it was actually a good thing because you you like when you realize a lot of the stuff about happiness and stuff you realize it not when you're cashing checks you lose you know not a calm scene ever a good captain made you know um but yeah throughout the all the you know the the changes basically i was still in the in the backdrop you know just around why didn't you sell when it got at the top why didn't you get rid of that's the whole the whole thing about i did i sold some and and and you know took some money off the table which is why i could semi-retire um but everyone's like you know oh shane you have sold, should have sold. He said no.

I've never said no money in my whole fucking life.

I was building Vice to sell it.

I never fucking said no.

That's all fucking horseshit.

We tried to sell it to Time Order, tried to sell it to Disney.

It was just like, you know, when Disney said no, we went into private equity.

And then, you know, that relationship is never good so well it's the

old adage go woke go broke and that's what happened with vice people stopped they just stopped vice is one of the best examples of go woke go broke ever because vice was huge and it was exciting it was interesting you know you had great shows and then it just got too weird. Yeah.
I mean,

yes. Media and media

got weird. And look, everyone's looking

at for us and then we can get on other shit but you know who left the fucking porthole open of the titanic you're like yeah hit a fucking iceberg not just us you know look at all the new media like right it culturally five five five companies take up 87 cents of every advertising dollar in the world and independent media gets the rest and it's getting smaller and smaller the money dries up and when the money dries up you start getting frantic right you start fucking flailing around looking for shit whatever you start looking for solutions other people start looking for solutions young people start fucking saying this is what we got to do this is what you got to do you got 5 000 people saying what we got to do rather than five and you got people who are semi-checked out if not checked out and you know shit got said nobody's fucking it's my baby nobody got fucking more sick about it than me but you're like okay you know so now you know we're doing vice News is me. We're doing the podcast.

We're doing it's fun again.

We're just fucking building, trying to do new shit with fucking AI and with some other stuff.

It's fun.

But, yeah, I do other shit on my own.

And, you know, look, the other thing, too, is I also spent time living my life, which I hadn't been doing.

I'm sure you do out here.

You got to go and you got to live your life again.

You have to live your life. You have to live your life.
This idea that your career should be your whole life is foolish. It's foolish.
It's foolish. Because you don't have that much time.
You don't have that much time. I was talking to somebody.
You're Gen X? Yeah, I got 67. What's that? You're Gen X.
Yeah. I was saying to someone because we were the forgotten generation and everyone was like, I was shitting.
And I was saying to someone, if you look at, you know, the Carl Sagan thing of like, we live in the greatest envelope of history ever, like of the billions of planets and the billions of years of this planet. Like we live in this final time when there's oxygen and there's water and you can fucking eat and you can fucking, you know.
And then I'm like, OK, if you look at that and then go, the best ever time has been like our little window. Like born in the 60s, grew up in the 70s, fucking free to go play in the creek and fucking go hunting and fishing and all that shit.
And then no parental supervision. But there's never been like a major fucking warning.
We're not getting pitchforked in the stomach. Like, you know, food has been like for the first time really in history food is now everywhere is good for every kind of you know like quality wise you know uh travel luxury fucking international travel like being able to do freaky jobs rather than work in a factory to the like all these fucking things happen for gen x and god knows if it happens again because AI is going to be all human endeavor done by machines and environmental shit.
And fucking, you know, the world is changing in ways we can't even fucking imagine. I have young kids and all the parents were clucking like hands about not learning math.
You're like, AI is going to change fucking everything. And so I'm like – I talking to someone and saying it's ironic, but Gen X actually lived in the greatest historical window of all time potentially.
And so I'm not going to just fucking not enjoy that. I'm going to go out there in life and just be like, I'm literally living in the greatest single fucking window in the history of history.
We certainly have and we live in the greatest time of uh technological change in human history we we started out like you and i can remember when phones were attached to the wall yeah i remember when it was a we had to spin the wheel it was an event phone call you gotta call and if you fucked up like god damn it you gotta hang up start from scratch took time to make a phone call. Joe, there's a phone call for you.
Right. And when people would call and you were on the phone, it would just be busy.
Yeah. Eh, eh, eh, eh.
When is he getting off the phone? And you call him back, eh, eh, eh. God damn, he's still busy.
Yeah. And then it became call waiting.
Oh, big, big deal. Oh, hold on.
Someone else is calling. Yeah, yeah.
I got someone else. Maybe they're more important than you.
Hold, please. And then you come back.
And then it was caller ID. Oh, this motherfucker's calling.
Fuck him. And then answering machines were the greatest.
And when you could get a remote answering machine, so I could call my answer machine and listen to you leave me a message. Hey, meet me at the bar at 10.
be like and i'd call you back and leave a message on your machine hey i got your message i'll meet you at the bar at 10 i love that it was incredible i love that it was incredible i'll see you on saturday at eight but we were also free from the confines of social media yeah and social media has brought an incredible amount of information to people but it's also also created a lot of very mentally ill people whether they realize it or not it's like you're getting a low dose of radiation all day long every day it's also addictive yes very very very super dopamine hits uh-huh yeah and then it's it could be psychologically very damaging if you read stuff about yourself. And I've had many friends that started becoming successful and then started doing really well and then started reading people's comments about them.
The hate is crazy. And it drives them nuts.
It hurts their feelings. It really does.
I mean, oh, poor baby. But I mean, really, as a human being.
Yeah, they're human beings. And I know that the people, look, if I was not a famous person, I was a person that was like who I was when I was 19 years old, I would 100% be leaving shitty comments on YouTube videos and shitty comments on someone's Instagram or Twitter or whatever.
It's what people do. It's normal.
It's not the people's fault because it's a very disconnected, disassociated way of communicating with people that's not congruent.

It's not normal for human communication.

It's not what we're designed.

We're designed to do this.

I'm looking at you.

You're looking at me.

I smile.

You smile.

We're buddies.

We have a good time.

That's how people are used to communicating with each other.

When you're communicating with people through text, it's fucking bizarre. It's very bizarre.
It's very different. And it's not good for you to take in the opinions of hundreds of thousands of people that may or may not be mentally ill, may or may not be going through a divorce.
Yeah, have an ax to grind. Or just, look, if you're successful in particular, there's a lot of unsuccessful people that are very bitter very sad and they want to find everything wrong with you we were talking about this in the green room last night i fucking loved the new beteljuice movie i loved it i read so many bad reviews of it so many bad reviews that it fell flat i had a giant smile on my face the whole time i'm a huge tim burton fan yeah i think the guy's brilliant and i think his movies are so unique because they they have this fingerprint of tim burton on them it's like it's so obviously through his mind his vision i think the guy's incredible i love all his films so for me i was like oh this is great when they got to the soul train i was like yes i love it this is so tim burton and so many people criticized that in particular there was something offensive about the soul train like fuck off also people say shit about fucking restaurants and everything and i'm like yeah it's fucking great everything it's a fucking cheeseburger i love cheeseburgers it's fucking good some guy from the new york times wrote a negative review about peter l's Steakhouse in Brooklyn.
Peter Luger's Steakhouse in Brooklyn is a fucking classic. If I'm anywhere near that area, I'm eating there 100%.
That place is sensational. It was near our old vice office.
And we, when we didn't have any money, the hack was you go there, order lunch to go, and you order the burger because it's all the ends of the steaks. And the fucking killer burger.
And you take it down to the river and you look at Manhattan and have this $5 burger at the time. And you're like, this is the greatest fucking lunch in the greatest city.
I fucking love it here, man. If I can make it there.
Yeah. And I was like, fucking New York, man.
This is Peter Luger fucking burger. There's Manhattan.

But this review was so toxic.

And Ari and I had just eaten there.

Ari Emanuel?

No, Ari Shafir.

Sorry.

We had just been there like a month before.

And we were like, what the fuck are you talking about?

We had one of the best meals of our life.

It's also an experience.

Yeah, it comes sizzling and there's butter on it and the smell.

Oh, yeah.

It's old.

It's old.

It's the fucking best.

All the guys who work there, been there for 35 years.

Shout out to Peter Lugers.

Shout out to Peter Lugers.

But it's the point.

It's like even a place like that, that you should go there and just take in what you're experiencing.

You're experiencing a classic old school steakhouse that does it exactly the same way every time I have in for like you know forever forever but it's just that people even in that will find negativity everything sucks and I think we were talking about this last night that I think this is a symbol of the times we're going through right now because everyone is so anxious yeah the presidential elections are are headed and no one knows what the fuck is going to happen or what's the right answer. Yeah.
Is it better if she gets in? Is it better if he gets in? Is he going to be a dictator? Is she going to crack down on free speech? Are we going to be in World War III? Right. What's happening? Does Iran have a fucking nuke? Was that earthquake a nuke or was it just an earthquake? You know, there's a nuclear test.
The weather God hate Florida like what all these different things like there's so much going on Israel and Gaza in the Middle East and Fuck man, it's so everyone is like Tim Burton. Fuck that movie.
Fuck this fuck that and fuck that restaurant It's like it's just this the zeitgeist is disturbed We don't have it's not a peaceful time in in our lot of anxiety yeah yeah and i don't you know i think we're missing out on the reality of our existence which if we lived at any other time we lived in 1924 and you got a time machine to go to 2024 you'd be like holy shit this is amazing 1824 oh yeah when you go get stabbed with a fucking bayonet and die of gangrene over yeah like it was fucking unpleasant yeah and you're eating shit you're shitting all the time because everybody weighed 120 pounds because there was no food there's no food and you couldn't drink water right because you get the shit like it was bad it was bad there's a reason why most people in history were drunk because they had to drink alcohol because if you drank regular water, you'd have fucking poison in it. It's like you're getting bacteria.
And then when we moved to cities, we're like, you know what? Now we've got to figure it out. We'll just put it in pipes.
It'll just be beautiful. Lead pipes.
We'll just put it in. Well, now it's PVC pipes.
Everyone's got plastic in their balls. Well, that's the other problem I wanted to talk to you about is don't you freak it.
Because when I first started studying politics, you have to take stats. And they're like – there was a southern dude teaching me.
He's like, you can have a statistic to prove anything. And my thing now is – and this is what I became interested in.
It's like all the – this is when I started with RFK. Everyone has all the stats.
And then they give stats so forcefully that you believe them. Like, well, that sounds fucking, you think? And there's stats about this, and there's stats about that, and all the stats are bad.
Yeah. There's no good stats.
There's no good stats. Well, there's a good stat in terms of, if you look at society in comparison to society of 200 years ago, it's safer.
That's Elon Musk, yeah. Yeah, people are kinder.
People are way more educated. Educated, healthy.
We understand things more. Yeah, and if you look at the sort of coefficient of hundreds of years ago, Elon brought that up, and I remember looking at that going, oh, yeah, fuck, we're doing good.
Yeah. Which is when I got into the Carl Sagan shit.
We're actually living in the greatest fucking window of all time. Where's the fucking anxiety coming from? And I don't know who said this, but I think it was, I don't know who said this, but work satisfies need, desire, and sanity.
Like you need to work for food. You know, desire because happiness is going forward.
Yes. And then sanity is if you don't fucking work, you go crazy.
This is my fear with universal basic income, which I think is inevitable. Yeah.
It's inevitable. It's inevitable.
Yeah. I think that's the only way we're going to be able to keep people alive.
And my fear is that we're going to have too much control over those people if we do that. And those people will have no purpose.
And we'll have an even more disenfranchised population than we have today. And the haves and the have-nots will be even further and further apart.
And there's no real education that is in school today where you take a child and you say, Hey, look, the world is going to change. And most of these jobs are going to be useless.
You're going to have to find something that you love that resonates with people. And if you do that, people are going to be willing to exchange that for money.
Whatever it is. If you can make...
Ceramics. This table, a guy named Drew made this table.
I know the man who made it. He is a carpenter.
He made a table out of wood. We gave him the specifications.
I told him I like oak. You're like, this is a handmade thing.
And a handmade thing is always, to me, is going to be very valuable. I love a handmade knife.
I love things that someone worked on. I love a painting, like a painting that someone, like my friend Taylor made this.
He painted it. He sat down in his studio, he painted it.
And I love that. That's always going to be valuable.
The problem is most people have never been encouraged to pursue their interest.

They've been encouraged to get a job and get a safe job.

And they probably don't even know what their interests are or how those interests could translate.

Or they've been stifled.

Right.

They've been stifled.

Well, you're exactly right.

So actually, when I was spending a lot of time in Silicon Valley, there was a lot of this talk and they're talking about universal, you know, living wage or basic wage. And I was like, what are you fucking talking about? You're going to give everyone 100 grand.
Right. And they're like, well, the synthesis of AI is all human endeavor done by machines.
I'm like, wow, come on. So I was kind of the skeptic.
You know, this is 10 years ago. And now all of this shit has come true.
They were already thinking about this back then because they're also saying exactly what you said, which is, let's say quantum computing happens and AI at the same time, which is probably three years away. One quantum computer has enough computing power that all the existing computers in the world today, right? And then you add AI to that.
So there's a whole new fucking tech revolution where it becomes even more rich people who own shit and even more. So they're like, unless you take care of those people, they're going to come, because we're the nerds, they're going to come with the hammers and the currency is going to be bullets.
It's not going to be chips. And so it's Planet of the Apes.
You've got fucking people on one side here and the big brains on the other side. And you're like, oh, they already knew this.
They were already thinking this because they're like, we're going to buy them off. But people are going to go crazy if you buy them off.
It's not necessarily buy them off. It's keep them alive.
Yeah, keep them alive. Because people are not going to have any fucking money.
And buy them off because they're afraid that they're going to come take their shit. I don't think we should look at it that way.
I think there's got to be a concerted effort to educate people about the possibilities of their life on earth, that they've been indoctrinated to think that they have to be a worker. How many of these people are out there that are doing masonry work really want to be a painter? How many of those people that really wanted to be in a band? There's something probably that most people want to do.
One thing the universal basic income will do is if you know you give everybody 100 grand a year whatever it is you're going to satisfy their they're they're not going to worry about rent they're not going to worry about food yeah so now maybe they can pursue the problem is people get fucking lazy when you give them free money it's just a fact maybe you're right it's not everybody yeah but a lot of people yeah they just exist and they'll just play video games all day. And look, if we're going to deal with a society where everything is run by AI and automated, you're going to have to give people money.
Because the extraordinary wealth that's going to be generated by AI is going to make that not that difficult to do, especially when you consider how much money we give to other countries already. 100%.
Over the last couple of years, we've given 100 and what, how many billion dollars to Ukraine? I think it's more than, it's up to 200 billion now? Yeah. Something crazy like that? Yeah.
That amount of money, when you're dealing with AI, when you're dealing with automation, just to keep people fed and housed, that's reasonable. But you're going to have to figure out a way to give people purpose.
Yes. And that's going to have to be a revamping of the education system.
That's exactly right. It's a revamping of the education system because you're saying, well, all of these, we were, we were, and this is another great thing on Gen X, but we were built to be workers.
We were, you're supposed to get, universal education is supposed to just be enough so you can be a good worker and a good taxpayer. And you get a job, and then, by the way, you get out of college, and you already have debt, then you buy a consumer durable.
You buy a fucking car, you buy a washing machine. And that's, you know, we'll give everybody that, but we give you debt, and then you buy a house, and then you're in debt, and then you finally get out of debt, and then you die.
Right. And so you just work, work, work, work, work.
And by the way, you're exactly right. You had to get a job, J-O-B, not F-U-N.
It's just you go and you do it and they give you money. Yeah, and you become an adult.
That's it. Yeah.
But that's not true because all of this human endeavor is now going to be done by machines. And you're like, okay, now what do you got? And I agree 100%.
It's going to be be something that we can't even fathom which is what do you really like to do right what do you love doing what by the way building a table is worth more than fucking being a corporate executive well it is if you enjoy it exactly yeah if you have a business that you actually enjoy doing exactly that's what I'm saying like That's what we have to teach. Yeah.
Rather than. And there's also this comparing thing.
I was at dinner the other night and my friend who's friends with this billionaire, his friend is a billionaire, and his friend was comparing his wealth to friends of his that own multiple corporations that are worth 30, 40 billion. He's like, I'm fucking poor compared to that guy.
Right. You missed the whole point.
You missed the whole point of getting wealthy. Yeah.
You have fuck you, buddy, and you're not even saying fuck you. You should be on a boat somewhere, man.
You should be marlin fishing. Yeah.
You know, you should be fucking lying in the sun. You should be doing things you enjoy doing.
You should be taking that trip you always wanted to take. That's what you're supposed to be doing.
You're not supposed to be keeping up with other billionaires. So you're working 16 hours a day on Adderall just so that you can fucking get those stock numbers moving.
Yeah. What? Well, the smartest thing anyone ever told me about money was my old man.
And he said, life is like a shit sandwich. The more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat.
This is a guy who, the only dude who ever lost money on insider trading he was not good but uh but but uh it's true like the one thing the one thing that you do notice when you get a bit of people are fucking nice to you that are nice to you and when and when you don't have money not online but like and then and then and you realize like oh fuck like people like can be like are People are not nice to you in general a lot of times. And you're like, that fucking sucks.
And, yeah, when you get a bit of money, a bit of success, whatever, people are a lot fucking nicer. And that's the one thing that I remarked upon in my life.
The rest of it's all garbage. The rest of it's all bullshit.
But people being nice and like, you know, not, shit not sucking, that's pretty good. That's nice.
And having a cushion. Yeah.
So you don't have to worry about like, I remember the first check I got, a real check, I got a development deal from Disney of all people when I was like, i guess i was like 26 and it was the first time

ever i had like a good chunk of money like six figures in the bank yeah and i felt weight different i felt weight lifted off like a physical feeling of whoa yeah because every like my whole life it's like how am i gonna eat yeah how am i gonna pay my rent how am i gonna do this and then all of a sudden i don't have to worry about that anymore. And I was like, oh, I get it now.
And I remember this revelation, like, okay, now I just have to keep this momentum going. Because once you have a good amount of money where you don't have to worry about money anymore, you don't want to ever get back to that desperation feeling.
That's a terrible feeling. And that's the feeling most people are listening to this exist in.
That feeling of concern about your bills. It's the number one struggle in marriages.
It's the number one struggle for everything. For everything.
Well, this is why we're getting to bring it up. I had the exact same moment in my life.
I never had any money and then I'll never forget it. I was walking down the Ramblas in Barcelona because I was living there trying to set up Vice Bain and I went in a bank machine and we had done some deal and it was the first time I got paid any money.
It wasn't a lot of money but it was, you know, same kind of deal like six figure thing. And I took out the money and I went, like my life changed.
I still remember how it smelled. I still remember because my life changed.
It was the first time I didn't have $28 in my bank account. And I just went, and like my breathing changed.
Like you said, weight lifts off you. And that and humans don't like to go backwards.
But yeah, living in that sort of constant fear, that's the problem with money. And that's why there is a chance, and it was good that you brought that up actually that like you can kind of take this anyway you know like humanity can take the next let's say 20 years anyway we want to take it and you can take it to be like let's fucking learn from what we've learned and be positive and try to take this as a fucking thing where humanity gets better and we do this in the right way rather than just do a fucking knee-jerk reaction, freaking out, like what the fuck's going to...
I'm sure that you're going to look back at a time when social media was fucking up kids' heads and we're going to say, that was crazy, dude. Right.
It's going to be like smoking. We're going to look at the stock market and go, yeah, it's fucking completely manipulated by supercomputers and trillion dollar funds and the little guy gets fucked why what the fuck did we let that happen right right there's gonna be all kinds of coming out of the pond moments where we go right hey like we were we were doing it wrong yeah but there's this big you know chaos is a ladder there's this big you know chaotic time right now and you're exactly right and people getting anxious about it and everything're like, yeah, we got to use that as a time to say, hey, why don't we fucking have an economy where there is a universal basic wage and or living wage? And we take that to doing shit where you do something that you like and you're happy about because that your job is probably going away.
I guarantee you it will cause less crime. I think crime will dip substantially.
I think there'll be less civil unrest. People's needs will be met.
It'll give everyone that feeling of, oh, I don't have to worry about my bills anymore. It's just finding purpose.
That's going to be the next thing. And the people that are really going to be fucked are the people that didn't find purpose already.
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Terms and conditions may apply. They're going to be sad.
And that's what I'm worried about. I'm worried about the people that are already sort of indoctrinated into a certain specific way of living.
And then all of a sudden, their purpose, which was their job, you know, they worked at the factory. And they're like, you know, Johnny's employee of the month.
Johnny, you're doing a fucking great job. I really appreciate you.
And that guy feels purpose. He puts in a hard day's work.
When he gets that paycheck, he knows he earned it. That's who he is.
He's the number one guy at the plant. He's the foreman.
He's the guy the men respect. That's a real thing for human beings.
We need a thing that makes us feel like we're progressing. It's a part of our DNA.
Our DNA, the reason why we're still alive, the reason why we survived is because we solved problems. We figured out what's going on.
We made ourselves useful, and it makes you useful to the tribe. It makes you feel good.
You have a sense of purpose. That's the guy that's the best hunter.
She knows how to fucking plant vegetables. He knows how to make cloth.
Everybody had a job and it gave you a sense of purpose. We're going to have to figure this out quick because I think it's going to be like the birth of a child.
It's going to be like this screaming, painful. It's going to be this thing filled with anxiety, but it is happening whether we like it or not.
And if we don't start educating children about the benefits of having a fulfilled life where you're doing something you actually enjoy and not telling them, don't do that. It's too hard.
Don't do that. It's risky.
Thank God I didn't listen to anybody because my whole- You wouldn't exist. I would have not a thing I did ever anybody told me to do.
Not fighting. My parents tried to stop me from fighting.
When I was doing martial arts, when I tried to do comedy, that why you you did so well in martial arts Why are you quitting and doing this new thing? Yeah, and every fucking step of the way when I started doing podcasts My friends like what are you wasting your time doing this right? It was all we started doing video podcast people like why are you spending so much time doing video? That's so stupid Nobody watches video everyone says no I was like, I don't care. I just do it yeah like just do what you like to do if you can but i just for whatever reason got lucky that i got into a pattern like that very early in life yeah both my parents worked so there wasn't a lot of guidance yeah so i found a thing that i liked and i just went and did it yeah and you know they're like why are you wasting your time doing it bye mom fucking leave the.
And I was on my own. And so I got into a pattern of that early, but there's so many people that don't and so many people that get a job and then that job is going to go away and it's going to be replaced by a fucking computer.
And I, if you're listening to this and that happens to you, don't become an alcoholic. Don't just give in, find something else, find purpose, find a Go back to what you love.
There's so many. I wish I had 50 lives to live simultaneously.
Me too. I would have a bunch of different jobs.
I've always wanted to do a bunch of different things. There's so many interesting things in this life.
Well, I think you're 100% right, but I also think, especially with kids, now is the time to start saying exactly that. that.
Like, listen, you know, like I did what I wanted to do and the same thing, everybody told me no, you know, everyone told you no and all that stuff, which by the way, you know, when I heard them saying no, like when you're like, I'm going to get into fighting, yeah, no, you're not. I'm going to do comedy, yeah, no, you're not, dude.
You're not doing it. Oh, now I'm going to get into a podcast.
What the fuck's a podcast? You're not going to fucking. I can hear them saying no in my brain.
Bro, Howard Stern used to mock podcasts, and he was my hero. It's like a guy who loved listening to him on the radio, and hearing him mock podcasts when I was doing it, I was like, damn.
I was like, oh, he's wrong. That's not good.
The laugh of the victorious. Ah, it's a good laugh.
It's a good one. It's the best laugh.
But yeah, so everyone said no to me. But so now I agree you have to go to kids and say, look, dude, do whatever the fuck you want.
Do what you're good at. Do what you're passionate about.
Like, do that whole thing. We got to stimulate them.
Stimulate them with interesting things. I mean, that's what we're talking about how I got this unexpected education on this podcast I Realized that I it wasn't that I was not interested in things or that I wasn't intelligent It's that I wasn't stimulated and I was a very physical person when I was a kid I had so much fucking energy and When you're sitting in a class and you're a little buzzsaw like it was like i can't do this yeah if i lived with the wrong parents and especially in a different time i would have 100 been medicated yeah but what it was was that i was a different car yeah okay i wasn't a honda civic you know i was a a shelby mustang for the shirt i'm wearing i was i was i I needed to go.
I need to go. I got to get stimulated by things.
I need stuff that excites me. I can't just sit down and I'm not good at listening.
Which is not what school does. It cuts off the tall trees.
It doesn't just do that. It tells you to not go for it.
Yeah, yeah. It tells you you're a bad person if you can't be bored if you can't you don't fit in yeah and but like somebody had to be johnny cash like there's a we all celebrate these people that escaped somebody had to be jimmy hendrix somebody had to be richard prior like obviously they were real like so they did it and everyone told them not to it's like a reward for getting out of that fucking quagmire of bullshit and mediocrity.
And that's what we, it's got to be the Smith-Rogan Academy and just say, look, don't do any of that shit. Yeah.
Fucking do what you love and also find shit that interests you and go do that because I didn't do that for a while. It's like a fucking purgatory.
You got to pursue it like your life depends on it. You do because it does.
It actually does. It does.
It actually does. And you can get gig jobs.
You can wait tables. You can drive Uber.
I drove limos. I did construction.
I did whatever I had to do. I delivered newspapers.
I did whatever I had to do to try to do a thing. And I didn't know if I was going to make it, but back then, when you're 21 years old, you have no responsibilities, no health insurance, no nothing.
And you could just fucking try things. Yeah.
Just try things. And if you don't do that, you're going to be sad.
And that's the reality of the world we live in. When people want to talk about the levels of depression in this country, what about the levels of purpose? And do they coincide? Yeah.
The levels of how many people have learned to control their emotions? How many people have learned to get their health in order, how many people have learned how to meditate, how many people have learned how to think about things before you make a decision and try to give yourself advice objectively. Not over-medicate or not medicate at all.
Yeah, not medicate at all. How many people have learned how to apologize to your friends, apologize to your family if you made a mistake? How many people have learned to own up to when you were the wrong when you were in the wrong instead of just covering it up and pretending and arguing and and trying to you know distort things just learn yeah learn and grow like we all make mistakes we all and if you're on the wrong path in life and if you're doing something you don't want to do figure out out a way to get the fuck out of that job.
And actually do it. Don't talk about it.
Fucking do it. Because if you don't – and if you do it, it's going to be so exciting.
It's going to be terrifying. You'll be like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm afraid.
Oh, my God, I got to make this happen. But fucking go for it.
You don't have much time. You have to.
You got to. You have to.
If you don't, you're going to be sad. And that's just the reality just the reality of a lot of you or you're going to be angry and it's really you're not even angry at the things you think you're angry at yeah you're angry at your existence well that's when i go back to this thing of you want to talk about meditation is whenever you get angry or anxious whatever say look you're living in the greatest fucking window of time ever in the history of fucking time.
ever so when what are you waiting for the better window of time right it's not coming right and so when you put it in a sort of grandiose perspective you're like i'm gonna enjoy the fucking shit yeah out of today because this is the best day in the fucking world ever it's the best day ever but not only in only in the world, in the history of the world, but in the history of every other planet that we know about. And part of what makes it exciting is that we're almost blowing it apart.
Yeah. Well, that's the other problem.
That's what you should enjoy if you're sitting at a restaurant having a nice steak and a glass of wine. You should enjoy the fact that we're not in rubble.
You should. That's a real thing.
That's a real thing. That's a real thing.
I feel like that every time I come back from somewhere. And that's one thing about reporting is you come back and you're like, you really fucking enjoy life.
This really is the promised land. It really is.
I mean, clearly, not for everybody. But also, there's a possibility.
The opportunity awaits itself right here. It really is the greatest country the world has ever known.
In the middle of all the bullshit we're going through and all the chaos and all the potential wars that we're involved in and wars we're involved in, it's still the greatest place ever, the greatest time ever. It's just confusing.
It's also one of the only countries you realize, guys like us, you have a kick at the can. Yeah, right.
Most countries, you don't have a kick at the can. You've got the wrong last name, the wrong accent.
Cast systems. Yeah.
Well, just – and like England. Yeah.
Europe, if you're an aristocracy, then you had everything. And if you weren't, you had nothing.
And if you want to get ahead, people get angry at you. There's some stat like – again, going back to stats, but there's some stat like 80% of the world's wealth is inherited and by 2045 it's going to be even higher.
And you're like, oh, fuck, you forget because we come from, oh, we made money or Elon made money or fucking Larry Page made money or whatever. Those are the real rich guy, Bezos.
But the majority of the world, it's like, yeah, my parents had money 1,000 years ago, years ago so i have money today that's so crazy and that's how you make joffries well that's how you make fucking game of thrones yeah yeah well that's how you make lots of them yeah you make monsters monsters and so so yeah like you come here and i'm like i'm an immigrant and i came here i'm fucking i was the ambassador for fucking new york i'm like i came here with no fucking shoes i'm a billionaire i fucking love it's the greatest fucking city in the fucking world fucking amazing and the canadians were like because the canadian identity is like we're not american kind of thing and i was unapologized i went to new york i'm like this is the greatest goddamn city in the fucking world and which it is and then and then and then i moved to la when i had kids i'm like well this is pretty fucking nice i used to want to live in canada i used to love canada i love canada hey don't get me wrong i love canada canada's a great place i thought about living in vancouver that's beautiful i was like i could live in vancouver like if shit hits the fan of the united states i always felt like it's a beautiful country and canadians are amazing people they're amazing amazing i always feel like Canada has 20% less douchebags. That was my feeling.
When I used to do shows up there, we would all talk about it. We'd do a gig in Toronto.
We'd do a gig in Montreal. And we'd be like, Canada is the best.
The best. I love it up there.
I love the people. They're friendly and hardworking.
Great place to go. And they're peaceful.
Smart. And they're smart.
And they're educated. It was always fun always fun i loved it up there i just love the attitude of the place i've met so many cool people in canada but now the way trudeau is running it it scares the shit out of me i'm like you guys are sliding into communism you're sliding every day they push a little bit further a little bit further i mean if you don't get rid of, if you don't turn that thing around, you're fucked.
Yeah, look, I've seen a lot of things happen in Canada where, to me, it's government shouldn't run things at all. Like, if we can stay away from it.
What does that mean? It means, like, universal health care. So when I grew up, it was good.
You could go to any hospital. The doctors were all good.
Some of the best doctors in the world. And then because they didn't manage it correctly and it got too big, it got too good.
Like 80 cents of every dollar was going to managing it rather than the doctors. So they left.
They came down here. There was a big brain drain.
And now you can't get a doctor. You have to sign up and wait for three years.
It's like the NHS in the UK or something. And it just doesn't work because the government's too big.
It's just, you know, once you get the government involved, it becomes like a welfare program. You're just paying all kinds of people to work on the thing, but no one's doing the actual thing that they're supposed to work on, the healthcare.
Bureaucracy. Bureaucracy.
So it's a problem. But my later stages in life to get into this and to get into the American political system and the bullgoose loony that is this political cycle and this electoral cycle and Canada and what's happening in Europe, I really get this feeling, and maybe we're going to get into it on this, but when I was younger, you know, and I was studying stuff and I was,

I always feel like I would love to go back to being in college because when I

was in college, I just wanted to get out.

I wanted to get out and make money and stuff.

And I just did everything to just get the fuck out.

And now I'm like,

if I could just read books and talk to people and then write about that,

I'd fucking, where do I sign up?

I'm just thinking about shit. So I fucking would love to.
It's wrong timing when you're, but anyway. But I used to study, I loved philosophy, I loved politics.
When I first came down to America, and I had been studying American politics, Bubba Clinton was a consensus politician, reduced the size of government, took the largest deficit of all time, turned the largest surplus of all time. And then Bush got in, turned the largest surplus of all time, largest deficit, increased size government.
And I'm like, no one said boo. No one said anything.
And you're like, the whole fundamental principles of the Republican Democratic Party, immigration. Before Trump, there's none more Reagan than me was the calling card of the GOP.
Reagan was the best president for immigration if you're an immigrant ever. He was super pro-immigration and the Democrats were against it.
They completely switched their platforms on it. And you're like – to me, when you look at America, you say, okay, it's a republic.
It's a two-party system. They're always in power.
That's one that's like two-party system you're always about you're always in power or you're fucking trying to control the house and you're like is it all much ado about nothing is it all a political like bread and puppet theater it's like this is super fucking important for you to watch over here to give you some sort of thinking that i have some agency that I can vote and it's gonna fuck a matter about anything whereas What the fuck really changes on the big shit? Like what the fuck really changes on the economy? What the fuck really changes for any of the shit that we're talking about? About school about education about big like the other shit you talk about which is fascinating and it's great that you do it about big pharma big food big education Military industrial what the fuck really changes in that zero Yeah, the only thing that changes is if there's someone who really wants to push reform Really wants to change things and the real question is like when you get a guy like Trump is promising all this stuff How much can you actually get away with how much can you actually change? What what can you actually do and will that change things for the better? Very little. Politically.
Politically. Politically, America's set up to do very...
The American government is set up to do very little and do it very slowly. That was what it was set up.
Well, not only that, a long time ago, we gave in to allowing money to enter into politics in this huge influential way. And then we allowed pharmaceutical drug companies to advertise on television.
And food and... All those things.
But those were the big ones. Because as soon as you had control of the narrative, there's no way the media is going to spoil the relationship that they have with their biggest providers of revenue.
They're not going to do that. So whether it's the food companies or whether it's pharmaceutical drug companies, they're going to ignore as much as possible about the negatives of these products.
And then you have a propaganda state where you have these people that are literally hired to say stories they know are not true because this will benefit the people that are their advertisers. And that's where you get fucking crazy.
It's also how that model implodes, which is fascinating. So that model becomes less relevant.
And the Michael Schellenbergers and the Matt Taibis of the world, then people start turning to them, the Glenn Greenwalds of the world. People say, well, these people are honest.
Well, I'm not a journalist.

I know, but these people are honest.

You interview a lot of people who tell a lot of things that people don't get at other places.

Yes. And then crazy people, too.
But that too but that's fine aliens let's get into aliens comedians i want to know what you know about aliens yeah i sorry i keep going i want to hear that end of that thought i don't remember where i was going where where was i going you were so what they've done is they've created their own demise by giving it to satan's deal so by sucking satan's cock and getting all that money you you've now You're not a news organization anymore. You're a propaganda outlet and everybody knows it you have the news But that's what the news is a thin layer of bread on the shit But yes, but that's been see this is the thing is that's been since the fucking beginning It's nothing new like I forget who it was but uh i was talking to somebody he goes what is news what is news shane you know who reuter was you know who reuter was he he he he started reuters to start a newspaper to say fuck you to his enemy blah blah blah he just bought it he was just a rich guy who bought i can't do his accent anymore but basically he got incensed with me because he was just like, that's what it always was.
Some rich guy would start a newspaper just to say, fuck you to the other rich guy. Why did Bezos buy the Washington Post? Well, because he was on the cover of the New York Times.
What is it? You can't be on the cover of the New York Times 18 days in a row. And he was on 13.
Was he? Something like that, yeah. By the way, it worked.
Yeah. Well, I mean, look, you can use money to get a lot of things done but it's just i'm just no what i'm saying is there's always been money in politics and there's always been money in media it's just now it's it's more obvious than ever before and now you're right there are agendas but so my whole thing is like i'm i'm an immigrant but i'm non political i'm literally serious.
Like I believe in the game. I like the game.
I like watching the game. And that's why I say like I like to take a look like, okay, there's this whole fucking thing going on over here where the status quo doesn't change.
And I think you and I are like, look, that's what has to fucking change over there. That's the real power over there.
This shit for me becomes, and it's funny because this is like, I don't know what I'm showing up myself. I don't know what this election is.
53, 54, something like that. The 54, 56.
It's pretty close. It's around there somewhere.
It fluctuates depending on what polls. So we're on season 53.
Right. And that's why you have to have the craziness.
You have to have two assassination attempts. You have to have fucking biden by the way biden has to be

kicked out mid-election and we're gonna get so like you're like oh season 53 the fawns is jumping the shark but the sharks being eaten by piranhas not only that biden's wearing a maga hat like this but that's like look can i pause you for a second because jamie you brought something jamie you didn't bring it up somebody else brought up sean brought it up me. Was there some sort of a physical altercation between Jill Biden's people and Kamala Harris's people? There's been reports about this stuff on Twitter, but it's just like Twitter reports.
I haven't seen anyone show pictures or quotes. It's just like a Twitter account saying stuff like that.
Is it a good Twitter account? I don't remember. There's a few people I follow where I know they're full of shit Because I just want to see nonsense.
I like it. I just what is this? Like it's a lot of the Michelle Obama has dick Yeah, there's so many of so many of them, but I I love I love memes And I love fast and hard you want to talk about creativity and art like some of them are so fucking good and so artistic and so quick you're like how the fuck did they fucking do that one like i fucking love it yeah and and there's so inappropriate and that's what's fun about it is because you can never kind of say you can never say this yeah yeah but i i'm like yeah i'll say this to jamie so he knows what we're talking about yeah it's just like so i'm just but like it's like there's so many of them now and so anyway that's like i was during during uh during uh during covid oh well this guy's pretty legit right but just his per white house official which how do you say his name Posebic Posebic How do you say his name? Posibik? How do you say his name? Posibik? Posibik.
But this guy's pretty legit. There was a physical altercation between Jill and Kamala staffers in the White House after Joe's press room last week began with the accusation that Bidens were undermining Kamala deliberately per White House official.
Well, it does seem like he's doing that. Like, when he called that press conference, he hadn't called any press conference.
So he decides to call a press conference in the middle of a national emergency. And he's out.
Yeah, and he's out. But he's still the president, so he can call a press conference.
So he decides to do that. He's still the president.
Wearing the MAGA hat. Like, look, there's no fucking way they're happy they got kicked out.
And Jill did not want him to step down. She started taking cabinet meetings.
Who elected you? Can I do it? Let me do it. I'm not elected either.
Let me just sit in and find out what's going on with these people. What are you talking about? How are you running a cabinet meeting? You're just married to the guy that's the president.
But that's the whole thing too because she sat at, I've sat in that room. You can go and you can sit in the room yeah but he wasn't there yeah he was but she i don't think she was running the cabinet meeting oh because that's what i'd heard yeah that's what people say because there's a picture of her there but she's not running the fucking why you want to ruin a great story this is fun it's fun if she's running there you go if she i hope she's running it i hope she's boss bitch tell everybody what the fuck to do the thing the thing about it i I married a goddamn president for one more month.
If you want to look at the greatest time of the Republican Party when Reagan was president, it was his cabinet. His cabinet was exceptional.
And because he had dementia, but his cabinet was... Not initially he did.
Not initially, but later on. But his cabinet was running America.
It was fucking great so you see the cabinet should run america i'd rather have the cabinet run something of professionals people who are like designed to do that rather than one fucking person is going to go yes no yep yep that's great they're the fucking queen of england and they're supposed to be the queen of england yeah do you think his dementia was convenient whose reagan's i. I always wonder if he was doing like a

Jimmy the Chin type thing. No.

Look, Reagan...

Jimmy Tingle, who's an amazing

comedian, he had this great bit way

back in 1988 when

Reagan was in trouble

for selling weapons to Iran.

And he said, I can't recall.

And he goes, do me a favor,

Mr. President, if you're ever selling arms to people who hate us, jot it down.
It's pretty good. It's like, he goes, make a note, put it on your refrigerator.
I literally never even thought of that. I would do that.
Yeah, sure. He said he couldn't remember anything.
Yeah. That's a good move.

That is a good move.

Who could tell you whether or not you could remember things?

You could play dumb.

Yeah.

That's what Jimmy the Chin did.

I don't remember.

Do you know that story?

No.

Jimmy the Chin Gigante was a mob leader.

Yeah.

And he would walk around with a bathrobe and slippers and just mumble to himself.

Yes.

And he would walk down the street with his capos.

Yeah, yeah.

And the FBI knew this.

And so what they did was they put these little microphones on all the hubcaps so that they could record his conversation as he walked down the street. So as he's walking down the street, they were recording everything.
Wow. I love shit like that.
I love shit like that. Like when Israel intercepts the pagers of Hezbollah and blows everybody's balls off.
That is, look, it's terrible that those people died, but it seems like they weren't good people. But at the bottom line is, you know how fucking genius that is? To stop the actual shipment.
Yeah. Sorry, to figure out that they use this type of analog pager, stop the shipment, and then get them to all blow up at the same time.
Wait, wait, wait. Wait months.
And make sure that no one's on an airplane. There's an amazing book called Rise Up and Kill First.
I've read that. Yeah, it's a great book.
It's about this. It's about, like, we can't win a war, so we're going to assassinate our way to safety.
Yeah, Yeah. It's all about Israel.
Yeah. It's crazy.

And using political assassinations.

Yes.

Fantastic.

It's crazy. When you find out they're doing that, like, God damn.
Well, you know how goddamn genius that is? And imagine being them and realizing, like, this is how deeply Israel's infested your organization. In our shed.
Woo. Yeah.
That's got to be terrifying. Well, just recently they got the head of Hezbollah and then the second head and then the third head within like three or four days of each other.
And then they're trying to get new guys and they're like, eh-eh. Yeah.
I don't want that gig. I don't want that gig.
The whole thing is very, very fascinating. It's fascinating.
Well, they're the people that invented Pegasus. Yeah.
You know, they invented the ability the ability to just, they now apparently with Pegasus 2,

all they have to have is your phone number.

Yeah.

And they're in.

That's true.

I actually talked to one of the guys who owned that company.

If you want the hack for Pegasus, I don't know if it still is, turn your phone off repeatedly,

because every time you turn your phone off, they have to re-put the Pegasus in.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh.

I don't know if I buy that.

Well, that was from the dude. I would tell that to people.
Just a fucking idiot. Shut his phone off.
No, I got it from the owner. It's true.
Meanwhile, you're never off. The phone's actually never off.
Yeah, exactly. That's how you could use find your phone.
Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's probably some hacks, but Eric Prince has a new phone called the Unplugged Phone that's designed by the guy who created Pegasus, apparently.
And it's like this untrackable phone that kind of constantly, but... Who knows? I don't...
You didn't track everything. I think you are...
First of all, with quantum computing. When quantum computing becomes ubiquitous, there's going to be no more passwords.
That's all gone, folks. It does not work.
Security, encryption. It's out the window.
Oh, you're fucked. Everyone's fucked.
And we're not prepared for that. 100% no.
It's going to be real weird. Because I've always said, what money is today, essentially, is numbers.
It's just ones and zeros. Yeah, we make it up.
And the thing that you see with the internet is as technology increases, people get more and more access to information, to ones and zeros, to data. The bottleneck is going to be money.
And eventually, that's going to break through. And then what do you own? And who owns what? And where is it stored? And what is it? It's all digital.
And soon, very soon, there will be no digital encryption. There will be no digital safety at all.
Everything. By the way, you're talking about money.
Every fucking... One of the most fascinating guys, I think you talked to him too.
I went to Russia and I hung out with him at the Metropole, which is funny because it's famously every room is bugged because it was the only place they let foreigners stay in Moscow. And so we were at the Metropole and we got into

surveillance. But he opened my phone

and he was, as we

were having the interview, just showing me

how they can turn on the phone, how can they do it, and how to

take out this part and take out this camera

and do this and do that. Just as he

was talking about overall government surveillance

of everybody, which, by the way, I don't

think a lot of people know what he did.

He said, look, the American government is illegally, illegally spying on its own people.

Oh, yeah.

And by the way, hadn't told him.

Illegally.

They weren't allowed to.

The mafia guys, they had to get warrants from judges and shit to fucking bug those cars.

Now they don't have to get shit.

They don't need shit.

They just have fucking planes with Incy catchers flying around.

They're picking up right now what we're talking about.

Oh, 100%.

Thank you. bug those cars.
Now they don't have to get shit. They don't need shit.
They have fucking planes with Inzy catchers flying around. They're picking up right

now what we're talking about. Oh, 100%.

Every time I have a conversation, every text I send,

even the fucked up ones, I go, well, someone's

got that. Oh, yeah.
So that's what they're going to say. So not only

your money, but like

your whole search history, whatever's

in your fucking computer. I tell my kids

I tell my kids like your phone

is your whole human archive.

And at some point,

someone can take that thing

and say,

this is,

you know,

evidence,

or this is this,

or this sort of like,

you have to make sure

that your phone is like,

you have to always be thinking.

Not only that,

if you're in some sort of a trial,

all that shit becomes public record.

Yeah.

That's what gets really weird.

Like,

there's two different people that were involved in trials where my text messages to them became public and got printed in stories.

Really?

One was Alex Jones.

The other was Elon Musk.

Huh.

It's very strange that they just have access to your text messages.

Yeah.

Like, for what reason?

Yeah.

Because I'm talking to some guy that I know?

They just subpoena them.

Like, what do you, what do you, like, the fact that, and the Alex Jones thing, they wanted every text message he and I had ever exchanged. Wow.
Fuck you. Yeah.
Fuck you. So we got it down to whether or not he talked to me about Sandy Hook.
That's another thing about this country. There has to be tort reform.
Anyone can sue anybody for anything and not have to pay their lawyer, and the lawyer can take 50% of the fund. Crazy.
It's extortion, and it's just – I don't know. Something has to change there because they're just sitting there suing people because they can.
Yeah. It's a sport for people, and it's a way to make a living.
I mean it's like gold digging. It's a viable strategy.
It's an ambulance. There's a lot of that.
There's a lot of that.

Definitely a lot of that. Tort reform, that would be a good thing.

So we got tort reform, we got education.

But I think what we were talking about earlier with quantum computing and AI, I think we're

all in real trouble. Because I think this society is going to be completely reimagined.
And it

probably will lean towards some sort of a more socialist existence because of necessity,

because of this money thing. Together, they employ more than 28 million people.
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I think if everything becomes digital, AI, quantum compute, we're going to have real chaos. Well, the problem with quantum is it's going to be, okay, there's a whole new...
So when the sort of West or the North or the rich countries or whatever leave everyone else behind monetarily is when the last 20 years of digital expansion and we just make trillion dollar companies and they're over here and we make all that money in that economy and then you go to like two thirds of the world and that shit hasn't even penetrated yet. So quantum computing is that on steroids because it's like oh there's going to be a whole new economy because all the other computers are fucking obsolete.

All the security is obsolete.

There's a whole new economy being generated. Who's it going to be generated by? The ultra smart, ultra early adopters, super like, you know, fucking rich people who can afford the quantum, blah, blah, blah.
Right. And everybody else is going even further fucking that way going.
There's no more fucking fish. Right.
And if you're just like, you you know rioting to get universal basic income raised up to 125 000 a year like that's what we're going to be dealing with people are looking for incremental improvements in their life where they don't have any other way to make money it's like they're stuck on the dole and we we could have an entire class of society that's just stuck on the dole forever which gets larger and larger larger. Yeah, which gets larger and larger, especially as technology increases to the point where almost all jobs are irrelevant.
Like Hollywood is in deep shit. They're in real, real, real deep shit.
That's what the strike was about because I'm doing it with news myself. You can get like, so when you do news, you get like, you have news services, right? So you get a news service, you get a wire, comes comes in.
And you go, oh, fuck, somebody fucking blew up the car. And you have a news team.
So you send out shooters and you send out a producer and a fucking, hey, you know what I'm saying? And then he comes back. And I would say news should be called olds because you're just sitting there three days ago.
Something happened behind me. Right.
With AI, it comes in right away. This just happened in Gaza.
You can have video. You can have, you can say, I want Walter Cronkite in black and white reading me my news from Reuters, right? Right.
It can be Peter Jennings circa blown out color from Vietnam era. It could be 90s era.
It could be, I want Pravda Tass fucking Russian Soviet. You can pick your own newscaster reading you verified news, right? Right away before anybody else.
Before Fox, before fucking MSNBC, before CNN, before anybody, BBC, anybody. And you're like, why wouldn't you do that? Right.
So, of course, if you take that a step further, everyone can become their own, you know, movie director. Because you can just plug in your story.
If you want to talk about art, in your story make a movie you do it through prompts and it'd do it almost instantaneous yeah that's what's going to be so bizarre and then the real problem with that is if ai is controlling the news like who's controlling ai like what what control and are we going to get to a point where we say you know we're going to have to sentient AI control information? Then we find out that sentient AI is withholding information from us because it doesn't think we're emotionally stable enough to process it, which we probably aren't. You know, if there's some sort of a civil turmoil that could happen because some information gets released.
If you were AI now and we're looking at the show, you'd say, yeah, these guys don't know what the fuck. What the fuck are they doing? We've got to take them.
They're not good for this planet. Yeah, we would corner Zelensky and go, what are you up to? No, I'm not saying Where's all that money going? I'm saying like, you have a news like you have a service comes in.
It's still people but you have news service and then AI can make the images or can make the video or whatever. But, I mean, look when you look at media, you're like oh, that's why the strike happened because they know.
Everyone can make their own fucking movie. Everyone can make their own TV show.
And that'll be the thing. It'll be like individualistic creators.
It's not going to be big studios and shit anymore. Yeah.
But that's just media. Like it's going to be every fucking business.
Every business. Smith and Ricardo were like, who wrote The Basis of Capitalism.
They're like, yeah, well, you know, they were both apologias for the Industrial Revolution, that's what's called Marx, but they were like, yeah, you know, the blueberry pickers will have to move to the cities and become iron mongers and, you know, that'll happen and they're like, well, blueberry pickers can't forge iron.

And they go, well, a generation will die, and then they'll figure it out.

Right.

So that was the problem. And that's going to be the problem with AI.

It's like there will be this thing of people moving to building tables or making art or doing whatever.

But there's going to be – this is why I think our kids are maybe okay.

But when you said what I worry about is the 40-year-olds sitting there who bought it all, went to high school, went to college, did all the shit, got the fucking job or sitting there, you know, trying to climb the ladder. And that's all going to go away.
It's all going to go away. Coding unnecessary.
And you're right. Like don't become an alcoholic because like it's probably the biggest freeing thing ever.
But like, yeah, there has to be, okay, like just pay that fucking person. Right right so that they don't lose their fucking house because if you start losing your house right if you smith and ricardo it and start losing your house which is my long-winded thing to go there has to be some sort of weird social thing about it because if you just let them fucking die off they're not gonna die off they're gonna say yeah yeah that's the fear the fear is rebellion and I don't think that's necessary I think clearly there's something happening to the human species that's technology driven and we're moving into a completely new way of existing and it's gonna be a tumultuous journey the transformation the process is be scary.
It's going to be very fucking

strange because it's going to be unprecedented

in its impact and the speed of its impact.

Yeah, the speed's going to be...

You know, the internet, it took

a couple decades before we figured out how fucked up

it is. You know, it came around

in the 1990s.

People started using it, you know, kind of

everywhere. You've got mail.
And then

2000s, you started getting fucked up videos and craziness. And then along comes social media.
And everybody's like, oh, my God, everyone's connected and everyone's addicted. And then you're getting all this negativity because that's what attracts views.
So your algorithm is entirely based. Yes.
Overwhelming. Some of it I love because it's like, wow.
Yeah. You know, I didn't know that.
And you find out it's true. So pretty yeah and then a lot of it you're like what the fuck and that's not true and you're like yeah and so by the way a lot of people have an axe to grind that's the other problem is ccp chinese communist party are are openly saying they're trying to fuck with our social media oh they are as is the free syrian army as are the iranians as are like as are we as.
We are fucking with it. I guarantee there's some sort of government agency that's involved with like just distributing narratives and arguing against certain things.
Also, if you go to Russia, they're like, yeah, you have the ruble. We are trying to fuck with you.
Yeah. We're definitely trying to fuck with you.
Of course. And you're like, okay, so if you're openly trying to fuck with us...
Yeah. And by the way, can you imagine if the Chinese Communist Party is spreading propaganda that there's $28 Big Macs, then what are they going to do when they have quantum computing? Right.
Well, once they have quantum computing, we're fucked financially. Well, it's a race between us and them.
Because as soon as someone has that with AI, the whole financial institutions crumble. We're going to be in a giant mess.
And I don't understand how they could ever figure out a way to stop that. I see as technology scales up, it's just going to have more power and more access.
And the innovation is going to come so fast, you're not going to be able to keep up with it. And all of a sudden, it'll be too late.
Yeah. Remember when we were growing up, there was a big thing about, like, how you adopt technology.
It takes you, like, 10 years to adopt. What was it called? There was a term for it.
It was a big deal in the 80s and 90s about culture lag, tech lag, something. You remember this? No.
No. It was a big concept when I was growing up anyway.
How long it takes society to adapt to a new technology. And it was a big deal.
And culture lag, something like that. And the speed with which quantum is going to change.
Quantum, sorry, quantum married with AI. Right.
The speed with which it changes everything is going to be like. I, I don't think we're even going to be able to sort of process that change.
No. I think it's going to happen so quick.
And I have the craziest thought about it that just keeps popping in my head is that I think that we are creating a new life form. That's what I really think.
With AI? Yeah. Well, that's been the sort of – But I think that's what the universe does.
I think that's probably what all these alien encounters are. I don't think they're biological anymore.
I think life gets to a certain point where it gets so smart that it creates a new version of itself that's superior. I mean, we get to aliens.
Either it merges with it. I think that's what the aliens are.
I think they're us. They're us in the future.
I think there's parallel... But that's the mathematical thing, right? Yeah.
It's more mathematically plausible that it's us in the future than we evolved this way. Well, it's also probably other civilizations from other places that are far more advanced that have figured out a way to get here.
And it might be interdimensional travelers, which sounds ridiculous until you talk to actual physicists that can tell you it's provable a dark matter dark 10 or 11 don't even know what that is well that's just a lack of an understanding of what the fuck is going well I love I love that did you ever if you haven't you Taylor Wilson who's like the fucking genius genius genius of all genius physicists he's a a young kid. Built a functioning fusion reactor

in his Reno

garage when he was 13 years

old. Michio Kako did something like that.

This guy is next

fucking level. Michio Kako, I think he

made a particle collider in his

house. Super.
He

refined his own yellow cake. He staked

claims and got uranium

and turned it into yellow cake. That's nuts.
How old is this kid? Now he's 30, but he was 13. So he was 13.
The government took him. I've been there.
What a fucking super nerd. He's so amazing.
Whenever you want to talk about anything that has to do with physics, he's the guy. But what I love about it is, I think he was part of the team.
I don't want to get anybody into trouble. I think he was part of the team.
He knew about it. He explained it to me.
The guys in Peru with the fucking most advanced telescope. They're like, the planets are all here, right? And they should be here.
They're not in the right place. And somebody had to go, the math is wrong.
I like to believe it's him, but maybe not. Somebody said the math is wrong.
And they're like, the math is wrong. That's all of the math.
That's like physics is wrong. Yeah, physics is wrong.
So like because there's too much gravity to keep all the planets in play, they should be fucking flying off. So like, okay, 90% of the universe we can't see.
It's dark matter, dark energy, and there's now these things deep in the coal mines, and they have like these baths of some gas, which they can see. They're weakly interacting molecular particles, WIMPs.
And they have been this, like, now the fifth dimension, which is now leading to there's infinite fucking universes and infinite possibilities. So you're not crazy because physics is now saying all of this shit is fucking probable.
Yeah. So that's one thing.
Two is, when I was talking to a very smart person, I'm not going to say anything because I don't get any trouble, but they're like, look, interstellar travel isn't going to be you and I go on a fucking spaceship, right? It's going to be there's – you download your brain into a computer. It goes via laser into another thing that's got a 3D printer of a human that resembles you or might not resemble you.
And it goes and you download and that's how you go these vast distances in space. And you're like, oh.
Maybe. But if they're doing that in the future, maybe.
But if they're doing, I'm not saying that that's it. But if it does happen, then it makes sense that you got these mixes.
If you're downloading your brain into a computer, then it's possible that brain gets mixed up with AI. What does that even mean? The thing is, like, what is your brain? And is the soul a real thing? Because I tend to think the soul is a real thing.
I do, too. I think there is some sort of a life force that's inside of you that's not just your heart beating.
I think there's a thing inside of people, and I think you recognize it when you're around people, and I think it's one of the most unique aspects of being a conscious creature, is that we think of us, we think of ourselves as individuals, but we're really connected to some great well of soul. The field, yeah.
Yeah, there's some thing that's going on where we're all in this together in some bizarre way that's for some reason very difficult for us to recognize in normal regular life it's hard for us to like you you get these moments where you feel it whether it's a psychedelic experience a near-death experience a profound love feeling there's joy yeah there's the birth of a child there's moments in life where you feel like everything's connected like you you see like through the curtains yeah and you get a chance god this is so much bigger than us or creativity than everything when something just comes to you where the fuck did that come from right it's the yeah it's in the it's in this it's in the space around you somehow or another like i there's that's the concept of like consciousness being like what you you're actually tuning in to what's out there. It's not local.
Your consciousness is not this local thing. Your brain, the local thing, is just an antenna.
It's distributing this consciousness through your unique biology and unique life experiences and where you live and who you're friends with and what you interact with on a daily basis, what kind of energy you get in, what kind of energy you put out. And it's all somehow or another bizarrely connected to the way the whole universe works, that it all works together as one unique, gigantic system.
Yeah, religion, philosophy, also psychology. It all is like, yeah, there's one thing out there.
Yeah. And you're like, what the fuck it is? And that's what it comes down to is like consciousness.
And as you get older and more mortal and realizing we don't have that much more time, that's the kind of shit. That's why I said it's stupid to think that when you're 19 to study philosophy.
When you get older and you're feeling more mortal and your brain's open to it, you're like, what the fuck are we doing here? What's it all about? You know, that's the craziest theory that came from the Bob Lazar stuff. The craziest, you know, the Bob Lazar stuff.
The guy was working back engineering UFOs for the government in the 1980s. Well, this is what I've been waiting the whole fucking time to get into.
He told the same story. You know more about it.
This guy's told the same story for 30 plus years it's the same story he was uh an engineer he worked at um los alamos labs and um then he left there and they hired him to do propulsion work right and they brought him in and they showed him this thing that had an american flag on it and he was was like, oh, it had an American flag sticker on it. And he was like, oh, they're ours.
That's why everybody's seeing these things. This is like some top secret thing that we're working on.
And slowly but surely, and again, this is not fact. This is just his story.
Slowly but surely over time, he's brought in to analyze this thing, tell us how it works. He realized like this is not ours it's too small the the the ship was made for three foot tall inhabitants everything looked like it was 3d printed there was no seams there was no bolts the whole thing had no there was no electronics it somehow or another was connected to the minds of the pilots and it had some sort of a reactor that had a stable form of element 115 which was just theoretical at the time you know it wasn't even proven until they proved it with a particle collider in like the 2000s so this guy was telling the story about how they have this element and so this element with radiation and it makes this gravity propulsion device and so one of the things that he said was that they had a very thick book that was all information about religion.
And that this was one of the things that they had got from these alien inhabitants, that we are vessels, that they look at us as containers for souls. Well, that's a little duddy.
But also, just think about this. That sounds crazy that we're vessels for souls.
But imagine if the life force of a soul is a real thing that's limited to biological organisms. But then you create life that is not biological.

And you create this thing that is this sentient life force that's digital, completely digital.

But it doesn't have a life force.

It doesn't have soul to it. Now, imagine you bridge the gap with hybrids.
So you have a thing that is part alive, part of biological organism and part interconnected. And it needs to be, if it wants to continue to have creativity and desire and needs and it it it actually has a task that it wants to accomplish and that this has to be connected somehow another to biology and that if you want biology you have to have a soul it's interesting because i speaking of kids i believe that humanity is a evolutionary experiment.
Because a lot of the things that happen to you are weird. Like when you have a kid, you change.
And when men have kids, they change. When women have kids, they change.
Kids change. Like all these things happen.
And it's just like this thing of like we have to do it. We have to do it.
And it puts you on a a path and you're like, are we a grand evolutionary experiment? And if so, why? Well, if this is what the universe does when it creates superior beings, it kind of makes sense that we have all the attributes that we have. It makes sense that we're territorial.
It makes sense that we fight over resources. It makes sense that we're competitive.
And it makes sense that we're inquisitive and that we constantly search for innovation. We want the newest best stuff all the time we have throughout human history.
We've always aspired to have the best plows, the best trucks, the best this, the best that. We always want better and we're always working on these things.
What does that lead to? That leads to artificial intelligence. It's almost like that's what we're doing.
We're making this cocoon and the butterfly is going to come out of the cocoon and we don't even know why we're making it. We're just fucking toiling along, doing our thing.
And it also connects to materialism because one of the things that materialism does is it encourages innovation and encourages constant purchasing of goods. If the phones that we have right now are perfect and we never have to get a new phone, all you have to do is repair them.
It would just be repair shops everywhere. You would need a new phone.
There would be no need for innovation. Light bulbs.
Yeah. Yeah, right.
But, well, light bulbs were better. They used to be better because they didn't burn out.
They never burned out. Yeah, but then they came out with the LED light bulbs.
I'm like, oh, it's actually even better because then they don't, you know. I like the old light bulbs.
They're all cool. The ones that never burned out.
They are cool. No, those ones burned out.
No, the original light bulbs never burned out. Yeah, they just have to make the film.
It's bigger. Yeah.
We're just like, nah, make it so they die off. Fuck those people.
This is a whole industry. Make them buy another light bulb.
There you go. And that's it.
Yeah, all the time. Yeah, you shut the lights out.
You're going to burn the light bulbs. Yeah.
Yeah, and then they burn. They get black in the bottom.
I'm like, shit, we lost the light but if phones were just i mean if we're satisfied with phones are so good why do we need new phones but we do oh the iphone 16 is coming out are you gonna get it oh samsung has a 25 ultra 25 it's got a better zoom and you just fucking keep hopping on that it's just a normal thing that we do we do it with computers we do with everything we do with cars and i think that that's just a constant thirst was it more's more's law yeah more's law but more's law is out the window it's out the window now it's all exponential anyway as soon as all this stuff gets popped out as soon as we give birth to that ai demon so i i cut you off when i shouldn't have because i was wanting hear you talk to more people who are more connected about aliens than anybody else.

So I wanted to sort of mine that a little bit.

So it's three foot high aliens who have – we have their technology in Area 54 or whatever.

Supposedly Area 51.

Supposedly S4.

Area 51, S4.

Site 4 is where he worked.

See? I don't know. I don't know know i don't know how much of it's bullshit i think some of it's bullshit right so whatever it is you have to say some of it's bullshit that it seems like the united states government is spending an inordinate amount of time studying these things there seems like there's a ton of whistleblowers there's a ton of programs that most of us did not know about so why do these programs exist so it is either a top secret drone program that has a super sophisticated propulsion system that's far beyond anything that we're aware of today that's probably true as well but also the universe is filled with stars the universe is filled planets.
The odds that none of them have life are very low.

There's Fermi's paradox.

Like, where are they?

Well, they probably don't want us to know too much about what they are because they want us to figure out a way.

Our brains will be blown. Well, also, like, get to the next level.

Right.

Get to the next level and keep getting.

You don't just fly in and give people death rays. It trek you can't you can't change their evolution and stuff i would imagine the correct the correct path is to let people evolve let people make these mistakes figure it out have revolutions have elections yeah have innovation have this constant desire also if they come, then we think, oh, there's the gods, there's the angels, there's the whatever it is.
Exactly. That's the problem, too.
And then also, I think there's probably an interdimensional aspect to it. There's probably some things that aren't even real that you're seeing, but they are real somewhere else.
And you have a window to them. There's probably bizarre states of consciousness where the a certain amount of psychedelic chemicals are released by your brain in a certain level of anxiety in a certain environment and circumstance where you have access to a frequency that's not normally available to you.
And I think some people are having these kind of experiences and they're calling them aliens. But I do think there's something going on with crafts.

And the thing about these crafts is they existed way before there's any reasonable assumption that people had technology that could do those things. Like the Kenneth Arnold sightings from the 1950s are the best example.
Something that was moving far faster than anything that we had. Silent, looked like a saucer, skipping over the sky.
They saw like a bunch of them flying around. These guys are fighter jet pilots.
They don't have a history of making up things. They're not liars.
And there's a ton of those sightings. Yeah.
And those sightings go way back. They go way back.
And it's probably some of the stories in the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita. There's a bunch of stories about flying things and flying chariots and wars in the sky there's some wild shit and you got to imagine that if this is a long slow process that every intelligent being goes through in the universe this is just like we look out we see all these different planets that are in the Goldil zone.
So we know that the kind of life that we have can exist in these planets. How many of them have people or things or some form of super intelligent organism? Yeah.
Probably infinite numbers. Probably infinite numbers.
And they probably visit emerging civilizations. It just makes sense.
Just like like we would just like we would visit a stone age culture and watch them from afar if we found some lost tribe in siberia you know with fucking the island off india you know yes north sentinel island yeah there's there's tons of examples of how we behave in those situations and we're retarded you imagine that's far more advanced than us, it would be much more sophisticated in its approach, probably would occasionally abduct people and study their biology, probably does have a way to erase memories, probably does leave people with significant trauma and confusion as to how this experience is real. How do you put it in the context of your normal day-to-day life? How come it never happens again?

You're just sitting home, wait, is this

going to happen again? And then the rest of your life, you're like

freaked out that the walls are going to melt and all of a sudden

you're going to be on a spaceship again?

If that is real, who fucking knows?

And those people, imagine

being one of those poor people that does get

abducted by aliens and everybody thinks you're an idiot.

Everybody thinks you're a liar.

Everybody thinks you're a fool. Oh, Mike lost his mind.
Thinks he got abducted by aliens. Meanwhile, I really did.
Well, that's going to be a problem when people finally find out. They're going to be like, hold on a second now.
It's going to be a real problem. And I think it's a slow trickle.
So I think that that's what we're experiencing. And I think this is normal.
I think there's deep denial in the 1960s, and there's also Operation Blue Book, which is a concerted effort to dismiss all the sightings as illegitimate and swamp gas. I mean, J.
Allen Hynek, who ran that program, eventually, when he left the program, became a huge UFO believer and then completely changed his tune and explained how he was told to debunk everything. There was a bunch of things that he couldn't debunk there I think the numbers like 90 10 90% of the things you could oh that's this that's Venus that's this that's that 10% there's no fucking way right this is like whatever this is there's physical evidence there's a bunch of shit something happened and he was a believer before he died a big believer and a proponent and would talk about UFOs openly and I think there's too many of those guys for it all to be bullshit.
There's too many people for it all to be bullshit. But some of it is bullshit and some of it is ours.
I think some of it is. I think some of it might be back engineered.
I think some of the Bob Lazar stuff might be legitimate. Like they they found things, whether these things were left behind for us to discover, whether they, you know, made some sort of a deal.
Right. But I think there's intelligent life other than human beings that interacts with us.
Bingo. That's what I think.
Yeah. Look, it's interesting.
My whole thing is, I don't know, but it's interesting. It's so interesting.
And why not, like, look into it? And why not read about it? I mean, people are like, well, this is the other thing. Not just with this, with everything.
Everyone's so dismissive about everything. You're like, oh, you're a fucking wingnut if you believe in that shit or if you read about it or if you want to look into it.
I'm like, I have questions. Right.
I want to ask questions. Why is it bad to ask questions? Right.
Why can't I talk about it? Why can't I think about it? By the way, people will freak out that we're talking about it. And you're like, why? We're two guys chopping it up, like, on your front porch, and be like, look, let's ask questions.
You're an interesting guy. You meet a lot of interesting people, so you are well-informed.
Well-informed, I'd say, better than, I'd say, 90% 99% of people let's talk about it that's interesting yeah it is interesting I think so obviously a lot of people agree you're always going to have people complaining you just can't listen that's the thing if you live your life by the whim of people that are willing to complain openly about almost anything, you're going to live a terrible life. Yeah.
And these kind of things, if they're not fascinating to you, that's fine. That's you.
But I don't know how you could not be fascinated by congressional disclosures, whistleblowers talking about programs that are beyond oversight that are retrieving crashed UFOs and back engineering them. And we've been doing this for decades.
Because if they're telling the truth, either this is a spectacular lie or they're telling the truth. Yeah.
And if they're telling the truth, how the fuck are you not interested? How are you not interested? What I have, to go another level, is the problem that I have is you're like, okay, we're interested in big pharma. We're interested in big food.
We're interested in oil. We're interested in military and industrial companies.
We're interested in all this stuff. But if you start talking about aliens or if you start talking about this or if you start talking about multidimensional whatever, it negates all the other stuff you're talking about.
Why? Only to idiots. There's way more people that are, even the New York Times in 2017, they posted legitimate journalism on UFOs.
But a lot of people. Sure.
There are a lot of people. You can't listen to them people.
There's a lot of people that could join a cult. Like if you wanted to start a cult, you could probably do a really good job.
You'd probably have a lot of people in your cult. It'd be really easy to do.
You'd have the biggest cult around. Pretty easy to do.
Right? Why? Because a lot of people are gullible and they're stupid. It's easy to get people to do things.
It's easy to get people mad. It's easy to get people that think that Donald Trump is Hitler and it's easy to get people to think that Donald Trump is Jesus.
It's like there's a lot of opinions out there. And that's fine.
It's part of the fun of life. That is.
And morons and their stupid opinions is also flavor. It's a little bit of flavor in the soup of life.
There you go. Salt and pepper.
Yeah, and sometimes morons learn.

Salt and pepper, yin and yang.

I saw that on your thing.

What was it?

The molecule?

The life molecule?

We still can't figure out exactly what that is.

So what this is is quantum entangled photons.

Yeah.

And the image that you're seeing in these quantum entangled photons is a yin and yang symbol.

Wow.

But we're trying to figure out, and this is where it gets like in the weed scientifically, is that what it looks like or did you make it look like that to represent these quantum entangled photons but the shape is arbitrary, like you chose a shape to get these quantum entangled photons to exist in. I don't know how you would do that.
I don't know. I don't know this.
I don't understand the way they're recording it. I don't understand the technology behind it.
I don't understand the science behind it. Here we go.
Here we go. Scientists have used first of its kind technique to visualize two entangled light particles in real time, making them appear as a stunning quantum yin-yang signal.
So we don't know if that's how it looks or if the scientists made it look that way. Again, I'm reading this.
I don't know what to tell you. Right.
A reconstruction of a holographic image of two entangled photons. Right.
The new method called bifoton digital holography uses an ultra-high precision camera and could be used to massively speed up

the future of quantum measurements. So this is the way it's worded.
Go back to the way it's worded.

It would be insanely cool if it was.

The way it's worded is just weird.

Yeah.

It's a first-of-its-kind technique to visualize two entangled light particles in real time.

But this is the part that gets me, making them appear as a stunning quantum yin-yang symbol.

Yeah, you don't know.

It's like, what are you saying?

Yeah. It's not clear.
Yeah. But it would be fucking cool if it was true.
Yeah, it would be super cool if it was true. But I think they made something so that they would know if it worked.
It's like, we're giving it this as long as we see this at the end result and success. Right.
So I don't understand that. I don't understand it either.
I'm too stupid for this conversation. But just the fact that we know that quantum entangled particles are real, just the fact

that we know this spooky action at a distance that Einstein talked about, the fact that

we know that quantum particles can exist in a state of motion and still at the same time,

they could be in superposition.

Like, what are you saying?

They go in and out of existence. It's measurable.
We don't know where they go. We don't know what's happening.
It's magic. It's magic.
It's all magic. And then the fact that atoms are like mostly empty space, what does that even mean? Yeah.
What are you talking about? Yeah. What does that mean? How are they connected? Yeah.
Just the nature of existence itself is magical. Yeah.
So when I went out with Taylor Wilson and he was picking up fucking yellow, like uranium and turning into yellow cake. And he was just speaking to me, like, because we'll talk about someone who's interesting.
And he's like, well, I mean, we all know that, like, uranium is like stars, you know, parts of stars that explode and, like, hit the earth because they flew. And so we're just taking a star that landed on earth and we're taking a piece of it and then we're releasing its power.
And I'm like, I didn't know that. He's like speaking like everybody knows that.
And I'm like, wait a minute. Uranium is like an X star that blew up that landed on earth and you can take it and that's how you do it? And he's like, yeah.
Well, we are that. We are that.
Yeah. I mean, with that song, we are stars.
But uranium is like the sort of the fucking, like the concentrated, you know. And you're like, oh, you're making, but the fusion reactor is making a star.
So you're making a star out of a star. Yeah, you're taking stardust and turning it into a star.

What the fuck?

How smart are people? People are fucking smart.

It's pretty amazing. And you need that in order to power quantum computing, by the way.
You don't need

multiple nuclear reactors to

power quantum computing.

All of it's bananas,

man. It's bananas.

I mean, thank God there's so many different kinds of people

because there's people that are wholly obsessed in pursuing that. you know there's guys like us who will talk about it yeah exactly not exactly know what they're talking about wow i think this is what it is yeah taylor's gonna call me go what the fuck are you talking about i'm i'm so fascinated by the people that studied just the universe itself because they're constantly dealing with new data like this james webb telescope thing is like thrown everything into a tizzy yeah you know though there's these new red spots that were there the formation of the universe they don't know what the fuck they are and they went away love it yeah like what is that love it quit here I'll send it to Jamie because it's one of those ones where you're like you read it and you're like what does that even mean what what are you saying? Like, what is this? Yeah, that's why I love to interview

people who are much smarter

than me because, again, I only understand

half of what they're saying, but

it is. I mean, it does

because we think we know what we're talking

about, especially like scientists

and physicists and everybody

and then something will happen. They're like, yeah, that was

all bullshit. It's all new now.
This is it on

Live Science. James Webb Telescope found hundreds of little red dots in the ancient universe.
We still don't know what they are. Yeah.
Small galaxies are either crammed with stars or they host gigantic black holes. The data astronomers have collected continues to puzzle them.
And then there's the data where they're finding galaxies that were formed too quickly. Yeah.
So it's throwing into, like, they're starting to consider the possibility that the universe is far older than they thought it was. It's amazing.
It's nuts. I love it.
It's nuts. I love it.
And it's probably filled with life just like us. There's probably people doing stupid shit all over the universe.
Can you imagine if they fucking finally find out and they would, yeah, like Egypt. Mm-hmm.
What do you got there? Nicotine? No, I thought it was one of those on it mushroom things, which by the way, you sent me and I loved them. Which ones did you, Alpha Brain? Alpha Brain.
That's not mushrooms. We have a mushroom one too.
It's called Shroom Tech. You sent me a mushroom Shroom Tech.
Yeah, that's a workout one. You sent me some, whatever you sent me.
Yeah, that's a Cordyceps mushroom. It's great for oxygen utilization.
Yeah. That shit's legit.
And you don't have to just buy it from us, buy it from Onik. Go get Cordyceps mushrooms.
Super legit endurance supplement. I did it for a concentration.
I did it for a concentration. It was great.
Well, that's Alpha Brain. That's Alpha Brain.
Yeah, Alpha Brain is the nootropic. That's Alpha Brain.
We have a black label that's like a super strong one now. That's really good.

I don't know if I need it, but I loved it.

You gave it to me, and I was like, wow, this is fucking awesome.

Nootropics are legit, and it's not just alpha brain either. So hold on, that's for just to not smoke?

No, no, I don't smoke.

This is just fun.

It gives me a little extra energy.

Just a little nicotine.

Whee!

Makes the brain fire up.

Yeah, it does.

Yeah.

Nicotine for the brain.

It's really good for your brain.

Yeah. It actually is.
It's just terrible for your lungs. Yeah.
Well, if you smoke. Yeah.
Probably the best way is probably a patch. Yeah.
But that just feels weird walking around with a patch. No, nicotine good for the brain, bad for the brain.
Well, I know guys who do that when they work. They put a nicotine patch on just for just.
Really? Nicotine is a legit nootropic as well. Yeah.
Nicotine actually like positively affects cognitive function. Yeah, I knew it was good for the brain, but the lung thing is more the smoking because it's like when you burn something, you have 3,000 carcinogens.
Vape is fucking terrible for you too. Anything you burn or put in your lungs.
Well, anything you're putting in your lungs, you're putting chemicals in your lungs. They're not supposed to go in there.
Like get fired up that way. Yeah.
Except weed, of course, man. You know what's another unheralded nootropic? Creatine.
Creatine actually increases cognitive performance. I don't know what creatine is.
It's a muscle supplement. It's like a supplement that they figured out in the 90s and people started equating it almost like steroids.
Like it was like a scandal that people were taking creatine. It's like powder.
Yeah. yeah i get it in gummy form i get creatine gummies yeah just chew a few of them every day great for your brain great for your brain great for muscle recovery there's a bunch of different stuff that's good for your brain yeah you ever try neuro gum i don't try anything neuro gum's great it's just gum it's just gum you chew it and it's got umanine in it and a little bit of caffeine.
Great for firing your brain up. I'm going to go try it.
So when you're doing this podcast thing, do you have like a weekly schedule? You're doing it twice a week? Yeah, we just started. I've done like five.
And like, again. So you do it once a week? How often do you do it once a week? It's going to be once a week.
And I do, you know, I'm interested in a lot of stuff. And so I'm new to the podcast game.
But I start, it's like basically I start out, it's like they're long. They're like three-parters.
And it starts out with something I'm fascinated by that's on social media. So, for example, that's the reason why I'm talking about this stuff.
But like, you know, something can come up and there and, like, the assassination attempt. And then there's conspiracy theories on both sides.
And I'm like, everyone's interested in it. Why don't we dig into it? Let's dig in.
Right. And so I dig in.
And I, you know, I know a lot of people. I can call them, get access, and talk to them.
I just ask questions. Again, I'm not – and I don't have, like – I'm not trying to shoehorn anything into anything.
I'm just like, what? Just talk. what is this yeah yeah and and so i find that really really fun uh really interesting are you mixing this in with investigative journalism are you like going places and talking to people and then i'm just meeting interesting people and i'll meet somebody interesting i'll just say fuck it we'll just talk and it just be a straight podcast.
And we're just talking for like two hours. Like Peter Dale Scott blew my mind.
And, you know, there's a lot of people out there. Like it'll be a mix of big names.
But I also want to go talk to the people who are, you know, putting stuff up and where they're getting their stuff and where they're getting their facts. Just dig in, basically.
And you can dig in on the high end and dig on the low. What I've found is if you get in the creation of the meme and who's creating it, it sort of starts as a wide thing.
And then it goes down into like some sort of like a philosophy or something bigger. And then when you get to the people who are like, for example, with the assassination attempts, it got pretty quickly into the deep state.
And I'm like, well, let's talk about the deep state because everyone bandies the word around, but nobody fucking really knows what it is if you want to get into clinical explanations or have real positive facts about what are the historical evidence so that this exists and that they do this all the fucking time. Right.
And so I'm like, okay, let's chop it up and get into it. And that

was super fun.

And

so I'm getting into all the stuff that

I find interesting

online and

in social media and saying, let's just get into it.

Yeah. Just whatever

you're interested in. Whatever I'm interested in.

Look, I love all of this stuff.

So, I mean, right now I'm doing a lot of political stuff because it's the electoral cycle. It's crazy.
And there's so much fucking bullshit. And when you see stuff, you're like, where's it coming from? Right.
Like, where's this fucking coming from? And you're right. Everyone has an agenda.
Sorry. Well, that's just what's so crazy about having so many different groups manipulating us through bots.

We don't really know what people actually think. And the problem with people is they don't really know what they actually think.
They know like what people – like there's a large percentage. I'm going to just say men because these are the ones that bother me the most.
men who say things because they know that people want to hear them and because they know it won't get them in trouble to say it and they don't necessarily believe it.

Like it could be about trans athletes.

It could be about like some sort of, it's a lot of it's connected to woke stuff.

Yeah, politically correct.

A lot of it's connected to ideology.

You know, like they'll have a super positive gaslighting version of what's going on at the border. And they do it because they have to.
Super positive? Yeah, super positive. It's important.
Immigration is important. And it's very difficult for these people otherwise.
And they have this bullshit. Yeah, okay, also terrorists.
Okay, also murderers and rapists getting released from Venezuelan prisons, making their way across the border. All that's real.
But there's two sides to that story. That's the one thing too.
Like a hundred percent. So I, when I did my dive into immigration, you're like, cause the reason why I got into this, you see the gates opening up and people coming through and I'm like, hold on a second.
I've been reporting on the border for, I don't know, 10 years. There's no fucking gate where people fucking run through the gate.
Right. And then you look into the thing and it's like oh yeah like that was before the border.
It's after the border and they were trying to get to the border because what they try to do is like basically touch the fucking fence so that the border guards will then come so that they can get processed. Right.
And so, like, the gates open and all that

shit, and the whole, like,

open border shit,

right? It's not true.

What do you mean it's not true?

They don't have an open border where people are just fucking coming in.

Like, look, I'm an immigrant. I know how it works.

You have to come in. Have you been down to the

south? Yeah, we've been down to the south. We've rode the

beast. We're in the Darien Gap.

Look, hold on.

Before I get fucking in today.

But there's, on the other side, yes, it's true.

So there's an immigration problem, huge immigration problem.

And there are bad people getting through.

And there are cartels running things.

And there are illegal people.

And there are all this stuff.

And by the way, the Republicans have a great message that they stay on.

The Democrats don't have a response to that message, right? They're just, it's a political fucking quagmire, but I don't care about the political quagmire. I'm like, let's go down.
We talked to the head of the border guards. We talked to the, both the head of the border guards.
We talked to sheriffs. We talked to militia dudes in Texas.
We talked to, we talked to everybody, right? And the problem is, is that there's's fucking shit on both sides and there's no fucking sanity when it comes to immigration. There's nobody really saying okay, this is what's happening here.
This is what's happening here. Yes, this is bad, but this is this and this is that and the other thing.
And there's two narratives and one narrative is there's open borders with rapists and murderers coming in and eating the cats and eat the dogs and then on the other side there's no real well that's not really happening but what happened was that they were in mexico and now that they're being released in here and and here's the stats 80 percent are come to their to their uh meetings like they're whatever the fuck it is the forgetting the word now but when they get like after they get processed no but they get processed and then they have to come to a meeting and a meeting and a meeting. And the Democrats are like, yeah, it's 85% and the Republicans are, it's like 90% don't come and 85% do come.
And you're like, well, where's the fucking stats coming from? Can we not talk to Homeland? So we reached out to Homeland. We reached out to the fucking committee that runs immigration.
We reached out to everybody. And this is why it gets so frustrating is because nobody has, like every, every answer is different.
Every answer is completely different. Sorry to interrupt, but this is why I find it fascinating because there are, especially on immigration, there are so many givens about what shit means.
And in actual fact, like an open border doesn't mean an open border. It doesn't mean you can just fucking walk across the border into America.
That doesn't happen. But some people are walking across the border into America.
They're getting smuggled or they're trying to get to the border where they give themselves up to border guards who then process them. They become processed.
They either get kicked out. They go back.
They stay here. And then they get fucking whatever.
There's 50 different things that can happen. But like to me, when I saw the open borders, they'll have a tweet, right? And it'll say, open borders.
And they'll have a fucking gate opening with people running through that gate. So you think like, oh, that's the gate to America that people are running through.
Well, there's a lot of openings. I mean, that's the thing about...
It turns out that that footage is all, of course, not true. There are openings in the sense of people can smuggle themselves in through the desert at night.
Well, you say smuggle, but people just go across on their own accord, too. It's not just like smuggling.
Well, there's a lot of smuggling. There's a lot of smuggling.
A lot of it. I mean, a lot of it is run by the cartels.
Yeah. Which is bad.
It's horrible. Horrible.
Well, there's a lot of missing children. Exactly.
It's bad. That's really scary.
It's like somewhere in the neighborhood of 300,000 missing children. It's very bad.
Scary. Very scary.
And, but I'm just saying, like, when you get into immigration as a thing, we're getting into it now. So you get two narratives.
Two completely different narratives. And near the twain shall meet.
That's the interesting thing. Is usually, eventually, you can get down to something.
Right. And on this one, you're like, literally, excuse me, it literally depends on who you're talking to.
Right. I don't want a sip of water.
Yeah, that's what's scary about today, is that it's hard to figure out, and depending upon what tribe you're a part of, you know, if you're on the tribe of the right, you think one thing, you're on the tribe of the left, you think another thing. Even if you're tribeless, I'm sitting there going, okay, so they'll talk to them about something.
So I remember when I was interviewing Obama at the end of his presidency, I was like, you know, what are your big, you know, and all he wanted to talk about was the Republicans. He didn't want to talk about his presidency.
So I went to go see Speaker Boehner because they were just talking about Speaker Boehner, who, by the way, lovely guy, great guy. And he wanted to talk about his thing.
And again, ne'er the twain shall meet. And you're like, at some point, you've got to get down to this kernel of truth.
And on immigration, it's almost impossible to find. Or maybe it is impossible to find.
Well, the bottom line is a lot of people are being brought into this country and then being shipped to swing states.

That's real.

That's undeniable.

The percentage of people that are in swing states of illegal immigrants moving to swing states is off the hook.

It's crazy.

It's a bizarre number.

It seems to be a strategy.

It seems to be a strategy.

Because then you give them amnesty.

Of course you can eventually.

They can.

They're trying to do that.

I mean, you can vote like in 10, 20 years. Well, first of all, you have no ID voting.
Okay. Right.
This is something that they've pushed in California and they've pushed a lot of places. There's only one reason to have no ID.
That's to have people that can vote that shouldn't be voting. That's the only reason.
If you only want the people to vote that should be voting, you ask for ID. Just like you ask for ID for everything else.
For getting on an airplane. I believe in ID.
Look, I believe in ID. I'm just saying.
But listen to me. The only reason to have no ID.
The only reason to have no ID. And to push that.
And it's only being pushed by the Democrats. There's only one reason that makes any logical sense.
You want people to vote that probably shouldn't be voting so you can get some extra votes. That's the only thing that makes sense.
So then if you have people like Nancy Pelosi, who's openly talked about giving amnesty to the people that are already here, you have voters now. So you have voters in swing states that you brought into this country and you provided them an amazing life.
And the Democrats brought them there. They're going to be loyal to the Democrats, especially if the Democrats continue to provide them with housing and money.
And why would you vote that out? Why would you vote for a bunch of people that want to deport you they're talking about mass deportations yeah imagine if you came here from haiti you lived terribly poor life in haiti now you have a good job in springfield ohio and you're like i can't fucking believe we're in america this is amazing and someone comes along gives you the ability to vote and then another group is saying we're going to mass deportate you because you people are eating all the dogs and all the cats then there's like this fucking of course you're you're getting voters you're bringing in voters and you're getting voters you're going to get them to vote that's something i haven't seen i'm not denying it or that's something we haven't seen like personally right we haven't seen it but it's clearly a strategy that you could employ and if you were going to employ that wouldn't you move those people to swing states you would and if you find out that there's an app that you can use and you use this app and they'll let you in the country you can schedule a way to illegally move to the country and then you're legally protected once you've done that so it's basically an open border okay you know what I'm saying like I know what the app that you know how hard it was for you to become an American citizen. It was very difficult.
You came from Canada. It took a lot of time.
It takes a long time. Chamath was explaining this.
Long time to vote. Long time to do the thing.
And you have to give a reason why you're supposed to be there. You have to be an exceptional person.
Yeah, you have to study, which I did, and I got 100% of my testing. I have a couple of friends of mine who are just coming here from England, and they wanted me, I had to do this visa thing for them, like give them a recommendation.
But you have to be exceptional. You have to be something special.
Or you can get on that app. And you can just come over.
Look, I'm not going to get too into the app because I only did it through interviews, but the app is an actual thing that tracks the people who come into the country. It's done by Homeland.
Sure, but it allows you to schedule. It's Homeland following them around.
It allows you to schedule an entrance into the country. Yeah, they're doing it to try to stop the waves of the illegals and making it somewhat legal.
And in any case- It seems like it simplifies people being able to get in the country illegally. I'm actually not going to defend it or talk about it anymore because I know the app exists and I know what you're talking about.
And I know you're right. People do and they sign up to it and they come and they get processed and then they wait for their thing and blah, blah, blah.
Well, it was the big argument on the debate between J.D. Vance and Tim Walz.
Yeah. And they and they tried to frame it as if this had existed for a long time and that's when J.D.
Vance had to step up and stop them and say you said you weren't going to fact check and this is whether that's not true. That app did not exist.
You can literally schedule it. It used to be for people that are already here.
Yeah. Like for you know kids that were born in Mexico but have lived their entire life in America.
we've got to find out a way to citizenship for those folks. That's fucking crazy.
I know a girl. She's 28 years old, and she came over here when she was a baby, and she's not an American citizen because her family's from Mexico.
That's crazy. To me, that's crazy.
That doesn't make any sense. She's been here her whole life.
She's a goddamn American. Let's figure that out.
Look, again, I have no dog in the race. I was literally just trying to get to some sort of, okay, let's, what are the facts? I didn't.
Like, that's one thing. Like, I talked to everybody I could on both sides.
And, again, it's so confusing that even now I'm like, after having, like, it's. It seems like a strategy.
It does. Look, it could be a strategy.
There's a strategy on both sides, for sure. But it's just like, it's so fucked up to try to find the facts on this stuff.
Right. Everybody has facts.
Don't, like, I'm going to be inundated with one. Everyone has fucking tons of facts.
But what are the fucking facts? But what's real? Exactly. Right.
Well, that's with so many things. I things i mean we had that with covid we have that with the ukraine war like who's responsible is it nato is it like what did someone cross a red line would someone violate an agreement what is happening in israel right are they really hiding in tunnels like is israel really shooting aid workers what what is going on what are the real facts what are the facts and and? And that's what I want to do on the podcast.
And sometimes you get there and sometimes you don't. And immigration obviously being a very interesting one.
And I'm going to continue on it because I'm like, it's not satisfactory. Although maybe that's just the answer.
The answer is it's such a fucking huge and confusing issue. It is absolutely a huge and confusing issue.
And also, if you're a human being, you have empathy. You have compassion.
If I lived in Ecuador or wherever these folks are from and I found out you could just cross America or you could get on your app and you can get into America, 100% I would do it. And you would too.
And yeah, we have the greatest country in the world and that's why people want to come here. And yeah, you have this land of opportunity.
It's amazing. But what we really have to do is make sure we don't let in murderers and fucking killers and rapists and thieves and gang members.
And a lot of them are getting through. And that's what we have to be careful about.
It's not just not letting people in. Sure.
I mean, I bet we could sustain a lot more people in this country. And I bet a lot of those people that come over are hardworking, very ambitious people that are excited to be here.
They would love to be a part of the American experience. They'd probably love to recognize as Americans.
Yes. Immigration, as it's being run right now, is a fucking catastrophe.
I think we can agree on that, and it has to be fixed. It has to be fixed, but the question is, they could have fixed that.
But how do you fucking fix it if nobody, if it's become so political, and you can get into COVID on this exact same problem, it's become so political that there's no fucking root basis in truth. And people believe on one side this thing and believe on the other side this thing and fucking nobody's going to meet them in the middle.
And you're like, well, what the fuck? So then they need a show like yours to lay it out. That's what it is.
You need something where someone is going to give you- At least try. And not come at it from a right-wing perspective or a left-wing perspective.
Just come at it from like, this is what it is. Yeah.
I think there's more politically homeless people now than ever. I really do believe that.
And they're going to side with one side or the other based on their opinion, mostly about Donald Trump. But other than that, it's like you're trying to figure out what team you belong on, and both teams are filled with scoundrels.
You go far enough to the left and far enough to the right, you have the same kind of monster that's just adopted a different ideology. That's all it is.
Well, they're politicians. It's not just politicians, it's gang members.
It's the politicians, of course, that are like the leaders, but you've got these gang members because basically anybody can join. Anybody could join the left and anybody can join the right.
And there's a lot of mentally ill people out there. And so they join this and their whole identity revolves on crushing the right or crushing the left and owning the libs.
You know, that's that's a giant percentage of social media. All these mentally ill people that are in a gang.
And that's all it is. That's why they attack people, try to deplatform them, try to get them fired, letter campaigns.
They're gang members. It's a gang.
And it gives them purpose because they don't have purpose in their life, which is why they're on Twitter 12 hours a day. Right.
Because they're mentally ill. And it's exacerbated by social media.
But it is, because it's become so big, it is informing policy. I mean, on both sides.
Because if you look at what gets adopted as narrative, then the narrative is being written on social media. It's not being written by traditional news.
Right. And so, fine.
That's why I'm like, hold on a second. I'm fascinated by this shit.
You're fascinated by it. I think pretty much everybody's fascinated by this shit.
It's informing policy, but nobody's actually reporting on it or digging in or getting in. Everybody's still, I don't give a shit about the mainstream media.
I give a shit about this stuff. The only way you find the truth is social media.
It's just you have to do a lot of sifting. A lot of sifting.
You got to figure figure out who's legit. A lot of sifting.
And that's where community notes comes in very handy. I like that.
And it clowns people on both sides. And it's good.
It's very important. So that's what I said.
I said, look, I'm just going to go in and try to dig through some of the shit, which, by the way, proved to be a lot harder. It's fucking real journalism, right? If you want to do that, I mean, you know better than anybody, it's real journalism.
Yeah. And look, it's fun because there's a lot of people who want to talk.
We've got a lot of stuff. Yeah.
And especially the way you're doing it now, we're, you know, small. Small, baby.
Keep it tight. Small, baby.
Tight chip. I learned from the best.
Nobody wants to listen. All these fucking dudes.
All these dudes, they get big and then they have staff and i go over their place i'm like why are all these people here dude there's so many people here this is a mess you did it right i'll give it to you man you did it right and and by the way surprisingly maybe not surprisingly very wise i i'm speaking i know of which i speak i didn't fucking do it right so i'm saying you did so nobody came knocking with those dollars you know I didn't have a thing that you could sell like that you know because my thing only works if I'm at the microphone yeah it's a different thing and it only works if I keep doing exactly the same way do it baby I love it I'm proud of you beautiful baby. We've known each other a long time.
Long time, bro. It's kind of crazy.
Long time, long time. But it was back in the fucking Tarzana or whatever it was, just over, what was that Tarzana? Woodland Hills.
Woodland Hills. Yeah.
The old days. Old school.
Yeah. You got me so fucked up on one of your fucking crazy weed fucking, this is a fucking purple haze fucking white widow.
It'sey diaz and i remember just like like there's a microphone here yeah that's the problem we used to get people way high before the show and then they would kind of close off be paranoid no it's terrible because i a couple drinks maybe but i can't like if when i'm stoned i'm like you know i can't talk is't talk. It is a bad strategy.
Pretty funny, though. It was fun for me.
Pretty funny. I used to love to get my opening act super high.
Yeah. Just to watch them panic when they go out there.
I'm like, don't worry about it. Just go have fun.
You got to learn how to be yourself in that fog, and maybe you can find something different when you're out there. Yeah.
If you're, like, smoking it all the time, whatever, you can get through it. But if you're just coming in going, oh, I'm going to sit down with the fucking number one podcast in the world and get as stoned as I've ever been and fucking try it.
The scariest thing is when you're talking and you don't know what you're talking about. Oh, yeah.
You lose train and you're like, I have no idea what I'm talking about and I don't know what to come back to. But all you need is footnotes.
Someone goes, trains. Yes.
Yes. Yes, the train.
And then all of a sudden, that door opens up in your brain, and you have access to all the information again. It's weird how it sort of compartmentalizes memory like that.
I got to say, though, those were fucking fun and good days, and you fucking blew up like an atom bomb, dude. It's weird.
But there were fun days. Fun.
Because we were doing it for the right reasons. It was just for fun.
It was just to do it because it didn't make any money for so long. It was just fun.
How long? Years. Like five years? Yeah, something like that.
And who was on it and sponsors? It basically paid to keep the lights on and paid for web hosts and all the, you know. How much did it cost back then to put it up? I don't remember.
It was pretty cheap. In the beginning, it was super cheap because it was just a laptop and a microphone.
That was super cheap. And then we started expanding.
And then once I got the first studio, I'm like, well, I really need a bigger one. Then I got a warehouse.
And then it started getting weird. What was the one in Woodland Hills? That was the first iteration or second? I had two at Woodland Hills.
Did you go to the warehouse one? I went to the tiny one. Yeah.
So there's a tiny one. And then we had the big-ass warehouse.
We had a gym in there and all kinds of stuff. Yeah.
It's just – it's like everything – things scale up. But the most important thing is, like, the reason why podcasts work, I i think is because people are listening and they know it's just a conversation so it works in your mind it resonates in your mind you know there's this is not like some heavily produced produced thing where there's an agenda and there's a script and a teleprompter and you're trying to pretend that you're being real but you're not being real so it doesn't feel right to people it doesn't resonate right and so the more people you have involved in it the more it's not going to feel right you know like my friend had a studio and he has a glass wall and the the production staff was all working and walking around in this this behind this glass wall and he sees them and i go that's a distraction yeah distraction.
Yeah. Like, why do you have that? This is bad for the conversation.
Yeah. You've missed the point.
The reason why it works is because the people at home, the people that are in there, they have ear pods on right now, going on a jog, they're just as much in this room as you and I are because there's no filters. It's just us.
I'm taking mental notes right now because we fucked up a few of those things, but you're

exactly right.

Everybody thinks that they want to be a television show.

Yeah.

And if you look at a television show, that's professional.

Yeah.

I don't think professional's good.

Yeah.

I don't think it's good.

I don't think it's...

You know what?

I'm going to take that.

The best comedy shows are live comedy shows.

Yeah.

You want to see comedy?

Watching it on Netflix is awesome.

Yeah.

Watching it live is 70% better.

Yeah.

For sure.

Because you're there.

It's a real experience.

Collective experience.

Yeah.

Thank you. Comedy shows are live comedy shows.
You want to see comedy? Watching on Netflix is awesome. Watching live is 70% better.
Yeah. Because you're there.
It's a real experience. Collective experience.
Yeah. To go back to your we're all tied together.
Yeah. Movie theaters.
Yep. Rock concerts.
Comedy shows. Yeah.
And I think once AI comes around, live performance is going to be one of the few ways that we're going to be able to connect with each other. Yeah.
In a can't do yeah yeah yeah in a real way and that's uh it's a scary a scary proposition because we really don't know like maybe for the first time ever if you lived in 1970 you were pretty sure what 1980 was going to be like maybe you're wrong a little bit but it was you're probably pretty accurate. You could extrapolate.
You could look at it and go, I see where this is going. Today, we have zero idea what 2034 looks like.
We are just guessing. I'll go further than that.
I was driving around our studios in Van Nuys and I was driving from Malibu to Van Nuys and I'm like, if you drive through, I don't know what that is, that's why I said Tar's probably Tarzana it literally hasn't changed a lot since 1924 right like it's like the same houses same fucking like okay the cars are different but there's cars and there's phones but like okay there's a bit of technology but like it kind of is the same street looks the same looks the same there's not a lot really and you're like okay a okay, 100 years from now, this fucking looks nothing. Yeah.
Nothing like it does today. Yeah.
That's scary. It is scary.
It's weird. But we will remain.
Yeah. We both said, like, look, you can either be positivist about it and say, look, let's mold it to be like, great.
I can fucking do something I love rather than work in a fucking factory fucking punching out uh you know tool and die fucking pieces i can you know go do what my first love was or something that i makes me feel filled with joy or we can become fucking autobots who are crying because fucking online ai driven girlfriend dumped me well the thing is also today there's these kind of conversations that are out there that put these thoughts into people's minds and inspire them to do something that didn't exist when we were young. There wasn't these kind of conversations that could really light up the fires of your creativity and your ambition.
In fact, it was the opposite. It was no.
Shut up. You had to be a real rebel.
You had to be kind of a crazy person. You had to take that path.
You had to be fucking an outsider. Yeah.
Yeah. Shut up.
Yeah, you had to be a real rebel. Yeah.
You had to be kind of a crazy person. That's right.
You had to take that path. You had to be punk.
You had to be fucking an outsider. Yeah.
Otherwise, people would conform. Just fucking do what everybody else is doing, being an accountant.
Yeah. And as you were struggling, if you got outside the lines and you were taking a chance, as you're struggling, people were praying for you to fall.
Yeah. All of them praying that it didn't work out for you.
Yeah. Because it shows them up.
Yeah. They made the wrong choice.
Yeah. They don't like it.
But that's true. That is true.
People want you to fail. They do.
Until you succeed. And then they're like, I was always in your corner.
The thing is, some people don't, though. Some people actually want you to succeed.
And they succeed themselves. They want you to succeed.
Can you realize that's a better a better way to live I am to adopt that you can adopt that even if it doesn't feel right because you're like grinding you're trying to make it out I'm telling you the hoping other people fail is the biggest waste of energy even your enemies let them Fucking just live in their own life. Don't don't hope they fail.
Don't don't put any energy towards it everyone's just trying to get through the day i like i'm a cheerleader and again when when when people i know or when my friends do well i'm like there's nobody happier than me like that's fucking awesome yeah it's just awesome and also and when people you know fail or have a hard time we're like okay bro let's what can we do let's fucking do it again let's fucking get get get back on the horse let's figure it out and yeah because otherwise it's just a fucking bummer you're right yeah yeah ain't no fun that the homies can't have none remember that song yeah all right brother tell everybody where your show is. How can they find it?

Where do they go? That's good.

We just started.

But I think on YouTube, it's Shane Smith Has Questions.

And wherever you can listen to podcasts, I guess.

All right.

But I appreciate the plug.

You got to come on sometime.

Always good to see you, my friend.

You got to come on.

I love you, man.

I love you, too.

Bye, everybody.