RFK Jr.'s Nomination Just Got a Shot in the Arm

Speaker 1 The clerk will call the roll.

Speaker 2 Mr. Grassley.
Aye. Mr.
Grassley, aye. Mr.
Cornyn. Aye.
Mr. Cornyn, aye.
Mr. Thune.
Aye. Mr.
Thune, aye. Mr.
Scott. Aye.
Mr. Scott, aye.
Mr. Cassidy.

Speaker 3 Today on Capitol Hill, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
cleared his first major hurdle to becoming America's chief health officer.

Speaker 2 Mr. Chairman, the final tally is 14 ayes, 13 nays.

Speaker 3 His next and final test will be before the full Senate, which hasn't yet scheduled a vote.

Speaker 3 If confirmed as Secretary of Health and Human Services, Kennedy would lead a sprawling department with a budget of $1.7 trillion.

Speaker 3 The job oversees everything from making sure your lettuce doesn't carry a foodborne illness to approving new drugs, from setting the vaccine schedule for your kids to deciding how easy it is to get abortion pills.

Speaker 3 Kennedy's path so far has been incredibly tight and divided.

Speaker 4 Mr. Kennedy, if confirmed, will have the opportunity to deliver much-needed change to our nation's health care system.
Mr.

Speaker 6 Robert Kennedy is manifestly unqualified for the job he seeks. I, for one, think that it is time to put a disruptor in.
It is time to put somebody in there that's going to go wild.

Speaker 7 I believe he is singularly unfit to serve as HHS secretary.

Speaker 3 Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Kate Leinbaugh.
It's Tuesday, February 4th.

Speaker 3 Coming up on the show, the health disruptor who wants to lead America's health system.

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Speaker 3 Kennedy comes from one of America's most famous political dynasties.

Speaker 3 His uncle was President John F. Kennedy.
His dad was the former Attorney General, Robert F. Kennedy, who was assassinated when RFK Jr.
was a young teenager. Here's our colleague, Liz Esley White.

Speaker 9 And early on, after his father was killed, Kennedy sank into drug addiction.

Speaker 8 I was a heroin addict for 14 years. I've been 42 years in recovery.

Speaker 9 And then he was able to climb out of that. He still attends AA meetings.
And he became an environmental lawyer. And he fought for many years to clean up the Hudson River.

Speaker 3 After decades of environmental activism, Kennedy announced a run for president in April of 2023 as a Democrat.

Speaker 3 But later, when it became clear he wouldn't defeat Joe Biden, he switched to running as an Independent.

Speaker 8 I've come here today to declare our independence from the tyranny of corruption, which robs us of affordable lives, our belief in the future, and our respect for each other.

Speaker 3 He painted himself as an outsider candidate and appealed to people across the political spectrum. A lot of his platform focused on reforming the health system.

Speaker 9 He taps into some, you know, very raw and real emotions of the American electorate. He also has this giant, broad appeal on a lot of these issues related to food and chronic disease.

Speaker 9 People really like what he has to say about ultra-processed foods. You know, why is it so difficult to eat healthy in America?

Speaker 3 By last summer, Kennedy's presidential hopes were fading. That's when he met with Trump to discuss bringing their camps together.

Speaker 3 Kennedy endorsed Trump, and Trump agreed he would work on one of Kennedy's main causes, fighting chronic disease. They turned their partnership into the Maha movement, make America Healthy Again.

Speaker 3 After the election, Trump put Kennedy forward for health secretary.

Speaker 10 I'm going to let him go wild on health. I'm going to let him go wild on the food.
I'm going to let him go wild on medicines.

Speaker 3 In the months since his nomination, Kennedy has laid out his priorities for the role.

Speaker 9 The first thing he's talked about doing

Speaker 9 is moving more money to research chronic disease.

Speaker 9 And he really does want to have more studies on things like autism.

Speaker 9 And I think he'll be able to move some federal money around to study those things in the way that he thinks they should be studied.

Speaker 3 Kennedy has also said he would focus on regulating food additives like dyes, as well as ultra-processed foods.

Speaker 8 We shouldn't be giving 60% of the kids in school processed food that is making them sick.

Speaker 9 And why is it that certain ingredients are used in America, but not in Europe? And those kinds of things appeal to both Democrats and Republicans, and people really get excited about that.

Speaker 3 Kennedy had hoped to turn that excitement into bipartisan support for his nomination, but his qualifications have been called into question.

Speaker 9 Most health secretaries, even if they aren't doctors or come with health policy experience, they have experience managing large organizations.

Speaker 9 And this organization has 80,000 employees and Kennedy's never managed anything nearly that large. In addition, he has been a vocal critic of most of HHS's work over the last five years.

Speaker 9 I mean, we've definitely never had a health secretary as critical of the health health agency as Mr. Kennedy.

Speaker 3 And it's not just that he's critical of the health agency,

Speaker 3 he has championed some ideas that

Speaker 3 question established science.

Speaker 9 Yeah, he led a nonprofit that spent millions questioning vaccines, questioning scientists about the links between vaccines and autism and other kind of theories that scientists have said are unfounded and have, you know, looked at in study after after study.

Speaker 9 But Mr. Kennedy became really a powerful voice for these activists because he was already so well known.

Speaker 3 Which brings us to the hearings last week before two Senate committees, where lawmakers from both sides of the aisle asked him questions.

Speaker 11 I got a real quick question for you.

Speaker 4 Are you a conspiracy theorist?

Speaker 8 That is a pejorative senator that's applied to me

Speaker 8 mainly to keep me from asking difficult questions of powerful interest.

Speaker 3 It wasn't long before things got rocky.

Speaker 8 News reports have claimed that I am any vaccine or any industry. I am neither.

Speaker 8 I am pro-safety.

Speaker 8 please proceed, Mr. Kennedy.

Speaker 3 The hearings were interrupted twice by protesters, and during the questioning, some senators assailed him for his views. Here's Colorado Democrat Michael Bennett.

Speaker 12 So I'm asking you, yes or no, Mr.

Speaker 4 Kennedy.

Speaker 12 Did you say that COVID-19 was a genetically engineered bioweapon that targets black and white people, but spared Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people?

Speaker 8 I didn't say it was deliberately targeted.

Speaker 8 I just quoted an NIH-funded and NIH-published study.

Speaker 12 Did you say that it targets black and white people but spared Ashkenazi Jews?

Speaker 8 I quoted a study, Your Honor. I quoted an NIH study that showed that.

Speaker 3 What would you say were the big topic areas that Kennedy was probed on by the senators?

Speaker 9 The two biggest topics were abortion and vaccines.

Speaker 3 Let's start with abortion.

Speaker 9 Abortion is a tricky topic for Kennedy. He really needs to allay Republican fears on that question.

Speaker 9 He needs to assure them that he isn't going to stick to his previous Democratic positions in favor of abortion rights as HHS secretary.

Speaker 3 Here's an exchange with Republican Senator Tim Scott.

Speaker 11 You and I had a serious conversation about the importance of life, and I'm a pro-life Christian, as you know. And you said that you assured me that your deputies were going to be pro-life.

Speaker 11 Is that still the case?

Speaker 8 I will implement President Trump's policies. I serve at his pleasure, but I share President Trump's view that every abortion is a tragedy.

Speaker 3 The next big topic was Kennedy's history of controversial statements on vaccines, things that are at odds with scientific consensus. He's repeated these ideas a lot in the past.

Speaker 8 There's no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective. Vaccines, that ought to be a free choice.

Speaker 8 We should not be giving black people the same vaccine schedule that's given to whites because they're...

Speaker 3 Kennedy's past views on vaccines came up repeatedly, including from a Republican senator, Bill Cassidy from Louisiana.

Speaker 14 So your past of undermining confidence in vaccines with unfounded or misleading arguments concerns me.

Speaker 3 During the hearings, Cassidy, who is a doctor, recounted how how he once had a woman medive due to a potentially fatal liver problem, a condition that he said was preventable if she'd been immunized.

Speaker 14 And as she took off, it was the worst day of my medical career because I thought $50 of vaccines could have prevented this all.

Speaker 9 Kennedy's pitch is that he will not be anti-vaccine. He will follow the data.

Speaker 9 But when pressed by Senator Cassidy with this big group of studies, which says, hey, there's no link between autism and vaccines, Kennedy came back with a study of his own.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 there are other studies as well, and I'd love to show those to you.

Speaker 3 The study Kennedy cited was funded by an anti-vaccine group, and it was not peer-reviewed. Cassidy wasn't convinced by Kennedy's argument.

Speaker 14 And that is why I've been struggling with your nomination.

Speaker 9 Senator Cassidy, you know, politically, it's expedient for him to help President Trump with his nominees. He is up against a primary challenger in Louisiana, and he is in danger of losing his seat.

Speaker 9 And yet he, I'm sure, is wondering, you know, if he votes for Kennedy, if he will end up regretting that, if there's an outbreak of infectious disease that is somehow related to dropping vaccination rates.

Speaker 9 You know, he said he really wants President Trump to have his nominees, but he also wonders if he'd actually be protecting President Trump's legacy more by voting against Kennedy.

Speaker 3 And over the weekend, Cassidy came to a decision on his vote. That's coming up after the break.

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Speaker 3 Around 10 o'clock this morning, the Senate Finance Committee met to vote on whether to push Kennedy's nomination to the full Senate for confirmation.

Speaker 3 At the hearing, senators aired their opposing views. Democratic Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia spoke about why he opposed the nomination.

Speaker 6 At a rally a few months ago, Donald Trump said that he was going to allow Mr. Robert Kennedy to, quote, go wild

Speaker 1 on health.

Speaker 1 Go wild.

Speaker 6 Of all the things that I can think of that I'd like to see a Secretary of Health and Human Services do, go wild is not on the list.

Speaker 3 Meanwhile, Republican Senator Tom Tillis of North Carolina said the exact opposite.

Speaker 6 I hope he goes wild and actually finds a way to reduce the cost of health care.

Speaker 3 The committee's 27 members voted along party lines, clearing Kennedy to a final vote. And Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy decided to vote yes.

Speaker 3 On the Senate floor later, Cassidy outlined what pushed him over the line. Mr.

Speaker 14 Kennedy, the administration committed to a strong role of Congress. Aside from he and I meeting regularly, he will come before the health committee on a quarterly basis if requested.

Speaker 3 Cassidy said that if confirmed, Kennedy promised that federal vaccine recommendations wouldn't change and that he would allow the Senate Health Committee to choose a representative to be on any board formed to review vaccine safety.

Speaker 14 These commitments and my expectation that we can have a great working relationship to make America healthy again is the basis of my

Speaker 3 Now, Kennedy's nomination is headed to the full Senate, which hasn't yet scheduled a vote. To be confirmed, Kennedy needs 50 votes.
The vice president would be a tiebreaker vote.

Speaker 3 As of this morning, no Republican senator has publicly opposed Kennedy's nomination. But Liz is hearing that some have reservations.

Speaker 9 We think that Senator McConnell, who came out early with a statement in support of the polio vaccine and is is himself a polio survivor,

Speaker 9 is a likely no on Kennedy.

Speaker 3 There are also questions about whether Republican senators Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski will object to Kennedy's nomination. But today's vote eases Kennedy's path to becoming health secretary.

Speaker 9 Now the Senate is trying to think, you know, we've had all these traditional guys in the past. You know, do we want this disruptor, this person who

Speaker 9 doesn't really fit the mold? Do we like that? Is that what we need to fight something like chronic disease? It's a really big question of, you know, do we try something new?

Speaker 9 And then if he doesn't get confirmed, he could say,

Speaker 9 they decided vaccines were too important to be messed with.

Speaker 3 Okay, so let's imagine that he does get confirmed. He gets the job, and you have to write the headline.
What would it be?

Speaker 9 One of America's biggest skeptics of public health agencies and of scientific authorities is now in charge of those institutions.

Speaker 9 And it is part of this great political reversal.

Speaker 9 of people who, you know, maybe didn't pay attention to politics in the past now being activated and, you know, getting really excited about someone like Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Speaker 9 because of the things that he's saying about food and about vaccines and playing a role then in Donald Trump's election.

Speaker 9 This is something that the fans of Kennedy say, but I think that they are correct. That there's never really been a movement behind an HHS secretary before.

Speaker 9 It has been quite astonishing to see the Make America Healthy movement come together and fuel this political change.

Speaker 3 That's all for today, Tuesday, February 4th. The journal is a co-production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal.
Additional reporting in this episode by Dominique Mosbergen and Christina Peterson.

Speaker 3 Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.