A Morning Run

This is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year-round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.
This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
So there was a silent moment between us where we were both trying to process what just happened.

After you punched him?

Yeah, like just a still moment where I was like, And this week, we speak with a woman named Darune Henry. She is a personal trainer, influencer, and mother of two who lives in Toronto, Canada.
In September of 2021, Darune had just moved into a new home with her kids and then husband. It was a nice, safe, family-friendly area of Toronto.
And then on September 15th, she went for a jog at 11 a.m. in a park near her home and experienced something terrifying.
We speak with Darun about her experience and the

lasting impact of what happened to her, including a video of the incident that went viral. We will

be back with you after the interview to give you some updates on Darun's story, which is still

ongoing today. As a note, this conversation with Darun happened on October 14th, 2024.

Let's get into the interview. Let's start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and your background.
I'm Darune Henry. I am an online fitness coach.
I'm a mother of two beautiful girls who are 13 and seven, and I'm just a very passionate entrepreneur. I had a very hard upbringing.
I was born in Iraq. I'm Kurdish.
So I, not to like go too deep, but I lost my brother. My brother was killed by a landmine when I was five.
So, and then I was like a refugee until we came to Canada at the age of seven or eight. So in 96.
And so a lot of my conditioning was limiting beliefs. I was very insecure because I didn't do too well in school.
I never got like university degree. I got pregnant at a young age.
And so when I had my spiritual awakening and I was on my own personal development journey and I discovered who I am and how powerful I am and how limitless I am, I wanted to help women discover that part of themselves, regardless of what you've been through, that you can become the best version of yourself. And so that's where my passion lies right now.
Right before the attack, I would say I was at the peak of my career. I was just the happiest version of myself.
In September of 2021, Daroon and her family had just moved into a new home in Brampton, a city in the greater Toronto area. Daroon was delighted to find out that she was in walking distance to Massey Park, which is a small park that sits in the middle of a heavily trafficked area, but still feels remote due to the density of the trees.
So she started to do her daily workouts at Massey Park. So it's September 15th, 2021.
So school had just started. Yeah, like I had taken the kids to school that day.
And I went for my jog around 9.30. Being in the forest, I would often do walking meditations.
I'd connect with God. So on that day, it was different because I needed more content.
So that was the only day I had taken my tripod because I do believe that having my tripod kind of saves me in a way that day. I believe I got there around 9.50-ish.
I shot content. I took pictures for about 20, 30 minutes.
I was getting the right shots. I had my jump rope with me that day.
So I was jump roping. So, you know, when is the first moment that you thought like something is wrong? Yeah.
So this was towards the end of my workout. So it was around 11am when I saw an elderly man who was maybe like 80 years old with a walker.
And I saw him walking very slowly slowly and I actually noticed a random person. I noticed he was walking very slowly behind the elderly man, like almost as if he was just like with him, but you can tell they weren't together.
I found him a little suspicious because he was dressed in all black, like black sweatpants, black sweater, a fitted hat, and he was wearing a mask. It was a pretty warm day.
It was September 15th. I was wearing shorts.
So it was kind of unusual to see somebody dressed in a hoodie and sweatpants and just fully covered and also like wearing a COVID mask. Not a lot of people wore the masks outside in the parks.
So I did, I noticed him immediately as he was walking, had his bike, but he wasn't on his bike. Like he wasn't riding his bike.
He was walking. They passed by,

right? Like they left and I just continued doing what I was doing. And then at this point I was stretching and, um, looking at the sunshine, you know, shining through the leaves and just breathing and just I was stretching and I felt this like immense pain in my hamstrings and like something told me to bend over like to stretch my hamstrings and when I bent over I literally saw him through my legs so I jumped and I was off to the side of the walking pad so that people can pass by me.
And when I bent over, I saw him like through my legs, literally. He was like right behind me, maybe eight feet away.
And I jumped, I turned around. I wasn't scared though.
I just thought he was on a walk. It was just so I didn't know there was someone there.
Yeah, yeah. I had no idea.
I was wearing these headphones, so I couldn't hear anything. And when I turned around and he was right, directly right behind me, my tripod was on, like it was on the ground.
And I think that, I don't think he was sure that like if it was recording or not, it wasn't recording, but he did notice my tripod. And then when I turned around, I said, Oh, I'm so sorry.
Like, I was just like, so sorry. I'm in your way.
Right. Even though there's a huge walking pathway, like you could go around me, like you, there's no reason you should be directly behind me.
And so like, that's when I realized, oh, like he really was trying to get really close to me, but I like caught him before he got too close. And as soon as I said, sorry to him, he was very strange.
He was just like, didn't say anything. And then looks at my tripod and was like asking me if I did YouTube.
He's like, oh, do you do YouTube? And I was like, no, I was, I couldn't really hear him because he had his mask on. So then I was like, what, what are you saying? And then he was like, do you do YouTube? And then he took his mask off.
So he put it down to below his chin. And he kept asking me if I did YouTube.
And I said, no, I don't do YouTube. He's like, are you a fitness instructor? I was like, yes, I'm a personal trainer.
And he's like, well, can I get your information, like my Facebook or like my socials. And I was like, no, like I only work with women.
And then I just kind of like looked at him like, walk away, like go now. And so like, I was just getting annoyed of him.
Like it was, the conversation probably took like 30 seconds.

And so I was waiting for him to walk off.

And I was like, no, like I only work with women. You can't have my information.
And so he got the point and it was in that moment, like he didn't say anything more. He just put his mask back on.
And in this moment, I realized, oh my God, he is going to try and rape me because he looks around, he looks in my eyes. And in that moment, I felt that realization, like that moment where you're like, I'm in danger.
Like I'm something bad is going to happen to me right now. And like, I have to like fight.
So I went into fight mode immediately because he looked around, he put his mask back on and then he came to strangle me. So he came at me with his hands to strangle me, but before he could get to me, I crossed him.
So I punched him with my right arm, my right disc. I punched him in his jaw.
Like I just, I don't know. I don't remember how hard it was.
I mean, in that moment, I'm sure I punched him really, really hard. not enough to knock him out, but he was shocked.
So there was a silent moment between us where we were both trying to process what just happened. After you punched him? Yeah, like just a still moment where I was like, oh my God, I just punched a human in the face.
Like I was taking boxing lessons, but I always had gloves on. I never punched a human before, like flesh and bone.
So there were so many thoughts running through my head, like, oh my God, he's going to kill me. I just punched a man in the face, and he's going to kill me.
So because you say like, and you did this motion, which people can't see on the podcast, but you're saying that he was coming at you with his hands out in a clear way that like he was going for your throat. Yeah.
He was coming for my throat. Yeah.
Like that was hands down the scariest moment of my life. Just, I didn't even react.
Like I't even think. I just reacted and I punched him.
And I honestly believe that punching him in the face was the best thing I could have ever done because it completely threw him off. And after I punched him, I did freeze because I was like, at the end of the day, I'm 5'1", and he's really tall.
I don't know who he is, what he's capable of. I don't know if he has a weapon on him.
But then right after I punched him and we had that silent moment for maybe five seconds, it aggravated him. So he tried to take me down.
And so I always mention that, like, my boxing lessons saved my life. I was able to fight him.
So I literally heard my coach, his name is Jerry. And I literally heard Jerry in my head.
I heard him say, put power behind it. Like, as I was punching, because that was something he'd often say to me, put power behind it.
And it's that repetition of punching over and over and over. And even, I don't know how it happened, but he was on the ground at one point.
I kicked him really hard in his ribs.

I wish I had kicked him in his balls, but I kicked him in his ribs.

There was a point where he was looking for something on the ground.

So he was searching for something on the ground.

And in that moment, I thought, oh my God, he's looking for a rock to knock me out.

That was my thought. It was like, he's looking for a rock to knock me out.
That was my thought. He's looking for something to knock me out.
And that was the moment I remembered I had a voice because when you're fighting for your life and you don't remember that... I didn't remember I was in a public park.
In that moment, I remembered, like, you're in a public park. There's people.
Somebody's going to hear you. And so I literally started screaming bloody murder.
I started screaming for help, like, as loud as I could. And yeah, like, that was was something it's hard to relive but yeah like I thought like if like that was my last resort was just screaming for my life um it was really really scary so yeah and then as soon as I started screaming for help, like his eyes bulged out and yeah.
And then he ran away. But when he ran away, he ran towards the right side of the forest.
And then I think he got maybe 10, 20 steps in and he stopped and he ran the opposite direction. And that's when I pulled out my phone and I started recording him because I needed evidence of him running away.
I needed evidence of like what he looked like, what he was wearing. Like I just needed something to show the police.
I had no idea why he stopped and ran the opposite direction. But then I realized when he picked up his bike that it was the same person who had walked by me 10 minutes prior to, and I realized that he had hid his bike and was watching me for about 10 minutes.
Time is precious, and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious.
That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24-7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow-ups for up to five pets.
You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments, and shipping is always free.
With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year-round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care. At Leslie's, we've got pools down to a science.
Our free water test gives you answers fast. When sunshine plus cannonballs equals the perfect afternoon, you can trust your water's good to go.
Leslie's uses advanced technology to analyze 10 elements of your pool's water chemistry in just 60 seconds. Your personalized treatment plan tells you exactly what your pool needs.
It's not rocket science, it's pool science, and we kind of love that. Come in for your free treatment plan.
Find your store at lesliespool.com. Leslie's, we know pools.
After Darun was able to fight off this attacker, she somehow had the presence of mind to take out her phone and hit record, capturing him running into the woods. Then a man in the park who had heard her scream showed up and called the police.
The following moments were a blur for Darune as multiple police officers and her husband arrived at the park. When I had somebody there, I was able to just kind of break out of that shell and I went into shock immediately.
I just started wailing. I couldn't help it.
I just started screaming.

There was a lot of police around and that police officer showed up within two minutes. He was there.
The search started immediately. They were looking for him because we gave a description.
But yeah, he got away with it. Yeah.
And then I somehow walked back home. My street was filled with police cars and my neighbors had no idea what happened.
There was just a lot of police in the area and they kind of gave me a minute. And when I got home, that's when like the shock just kept getting worse.
Um, when I was like, realized, like, realized what, what just happened. Um, the first thing I did was did was go to the bathroom and puke.

I don't know how to describe it, but it felt like I puked like this evil. It just came out of me.
I puked and I was messed up. I was really messed up because I kept thinking like, oh my god what if I turn around? Like, what if he had just knocked me out before I had turned around? There's obviously this range of emotions that you're then experiencing directly following the attack.
What do logistically the hours and the days following the attack look like? Yeah, that was a huge ordeal. When we get into the police, there's a lot to say because, you know, I essentially risked my life capturing that video because I should have been running to safety.
But I took an extra 10, 15 seconds just to get him on camera. Yeah, I was very disappointed when they told me that they couldn't do anything with that evidence um like I had this fantasy that like they were going to put it on the news that night and show the clip of him running through the woods and my neighborhood's going to be safer place.
Maybe like somebody can recognize him. And like, I was so disappointed and so shocked when the police were like, no, like we can't do anything with that evidence.
What was their reason when they said we can't do anything? Why? Well, because it's alleged. They can't prove what he did.
They just have a video of a guy running through the woods.

And it's an alleged attack.

And yeah, they just don't do that.

So I was like, okay, well, what are you going to do?

There's a guy out there attacking women at 11 a.m. He is 1 million percent going to do it again.
And they're like, yeah, we're going to put it up on our website. And then I was angry.
I was like, what fucking website are you talking about? Like, I live in this neighborhood. I don't know about your website.
I doubt anyone here knows that you have a website or that anyone goes on there daily to check. They questioned me for about half an hour.
And I was like, yeah, I was just messed up, right? Like they gave me maybe 10 minutes to myself. And like during that 10 minutes, I was puking.
Then we were talking and I was angry. I was so angry.
I was like, what do you mean you're not going to do anything? What do you mean you're just going to put it on a website? What good is that? And they literally told me the best thing you could do is just not go back into the woods. And I was like, I was like, are you fucking kidding me? What am I, a caged up animal? I can't even go for a walk in my neighborhood in the park where I take my kids every day.
Like, I walk my kids to the park. Well, also, this is our advice to women on how to stay safe.
Don't leave your house. Yeah, exactly.
According to Daroon, the police said they would post the report on their website to alert the neighborhood. But she didn't feel that this was good enough.
After all, she lived in the neighborhood and she'd never heard of the website. Darune has a significant following on social media.
And so the next day, when the police report still wasn't up online, Darune decided to post the video that she recorded in the park of her attacker. This is the first part of that video.
Darune screams as a blurry figure darts through the woods. Help me! Help me! This guy tries to attack me! I have you on video, you piece of s***! I just punched him in the f***ing face! Yeah, you piece of s***! The video then cuts from the park to Darune sitting on her front porch the following day, speaking directly to her followers.

I want to make this video for my predator.

I want him to know that when I punched him in the face, I wasn't scared at all.

I wasn't scared.

I'm crying because he fucking took my sanctuary from me. It went viral within hours.
And at one point it was at 30,000 views and it was at 300,000 views and it was at 500,000 views. And it was just like a snowball effect.
And it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And that was extremely hard to navigate through as I'm trying to collect myself.
I was getting messages from all over the world. It went viral in India.
It went viral in Europe. It went viral in South America.
For some people, it was like entertainment. I experienced a lot of victim blaming, but I have to say I did also feel like the support of the world behind me.
They ended up posting the police report after it I'm viral, but I also felt like the system really failed me because if they had just taken me seriously, if they had publicized my report, then the second attack wouldn't have happened, which was just six days after mine. Do you know what happened with that attack? And how did you learn about that attack? I found out about the second attack through a follower.

Somebody sent me the report.

What happened was literally the same exact scenario.

He attacked her on a Tuesday.

It was around the same exact time, like 11 a.m.

It was in another nearby park.

He was on a bike. Same thing.
He was dressed in sweats, but he had escalated it to, he had taken a knife, so a box cutter, to this next attack. After the second attack, Darun was asked to come into the police station and look through a series of photographs to identify the attacker.
He was like the second last picture. So I had to like go through all those pictures.
But as soon as his picture came up and I looked at his eyes, this energy rushed over me and like every cell in my body screamed and was like, that's him. Like I knew it was him because of his eyes, because I can never forget that look he gave me right before he came to strangle me.
And, you know, even though it was a picture, I felt those emotions. And then after they made me go through that, they were like, well, we have a disturbing question to ask you.
I was like, what? And they were like, did he steal anything from you? Like, does he, are you missing anything? And I was like, no, no, I'm not missing anything. But when they told me, like they found him, he had a backpack on him and he had a bunch of women's items in there.
And they told me that he goes out there looking for the opportunity to attack and then that he is also a trophy keeper. So then he keeps something from his victims.
And when they said that to me, I realized that when I thought he was looking for a rock to knock me out, he wasn't actually looking for a rock. He was looking to steal something to keep as a trophy.
19-year-old Paul Youssef of Brampton was charged this week with assault. Assault with a weapon and assault causing bodily harm.

In connection to two alleged incidents, Henry's and another that happened six days later, that incident taking place at nearby Jayfield Park. Law enforcement was able to identify and charge Paul Youssef.
We don't have any information about the other victim, as she was a minor at the time. Paul Youssef was arrested on September 28, 2021.
Darun now had a name for her attacker. And while she waited to see what would happen to him, she tried to continue living her life.
I didn't sleep for maybe two weeks. I just couldn't.
Although he wasn't successful successful I went through a lot of the after

effects you know it's interesting to use this word successful and I know what you mean by it

because he wasn't able to you know do what he planned to do which when you were in that moment

was very clear to you looking in his eyes you knew what he wanted to do yeah it's still just like

he still attacked you.

You know, you still had to go through that experience. He wasn't successful, but he was successful in breaking me and, you know, making me feel violated.
I still feel very violated. for the first two weeks before he was caught, I went through this intense PTSD where I felt like he was in my kitchen every night.
I couldn't even go downstairs to get a glass of water because I felt like he was just there. There were many times where I would just be sitting on my front porch and like a man would walk by and I thought that man was going to come attack me and I would just run back into my home.
The PTSD was so intense that I literally jumped one day and like almost freaked out on an elderly man at the beach. Something that's important to note, in Canada, you are not allowed to carry a weapon or any tool that is specifically for the purpose of self-defense, which would include pepper spray.
It was difficult for Darune to feel safe out in the world, even during the day. After all, she'd been attacked in a public park at 11 a.m.
She feared something like this would happen again, knowing her only recourse, if it ever did happen, would be to fight. One of the triggers I have is that, like, when a man is walking towards me and making eye contact, I get triggered.
Or if there's somebody behind me, I will get triggered and it will bring back that moment and I'll go into like defense mode. Like I didn't want to be touched, like even by my husband, like he couldn't even tap me on the shoulder without me jumping.
I dressed in baggy clothes for weeks. Like my body was, I felt so violated.
There's a lot that victims go through that is not talked about. Have you learned anything else about him throughout this process? Like what does he do for work? oh yeah like when we discovered who he was and uh it went public

um i saw a few comments like, oh, I went to high school with this guy. So I went and I like did my own research.
I found out that he's Iraqi, which is crazy because I'm Iraqi. I found out that he's my own people.
And that was very disturbing, and that was one thing I found out about him. A lot of the girls I spoke to from his high school, I think I spoke to like two or three of them, all told me he was a creep and that he didn't handle rejection very well.
Darun waited in anticipation to see what would happen to her attacker, Paul Youssef. The waiting, she said, was uncomfortable, but it was also not a new feeling for her.
This experience flooded her with memories from a different incident that happened when she was a child. This is also not my first predator.
When I was 11, I was groomed by my teacher, my drama teacher. Like every kid wanted to be around him, like, because he was cool.
And he was, you know, like if Mr. Talenko liked you, like, you're cool.
And I didn't know he was grooming me until he made it so obvious. And he was like, well, I have a question for you.
Do you have pubic hair? I was like, whoa. And I was going through puberty.
And I didn't even talk about that stuff with my own parents. So for you to ask me as a teacher, I legitimately ran home that day.
I think I answered him. I have no idea what my reaction was.
I just was like, what the fuck, dude? And I ran out of there. I went home and then I just avoided him for the remainder of the year.
You know, I noticed he always had like a favorite student that was always a female who was always in grade six. And the reason he targeted grade six students, and this is just all my theory, was because the year, like that was the last year of elementary and then you go to middle school.
And so you can kind of get away with doing whatever and then they were off to the next school,

which is exactly what happened with me.

I just moved on and I went to the next school

and I forgot about it.

Darun was clear that although her sixth grade teacher,

Greg Tolenko, had not physically abused her,

his actions were harmful.

He was a teacher, someone in a trusted position of authority, and he'd used that power to manipulate her. At the time, Darun didn't know the term grooming, but she does now, and that is exactly what Greg Tolanco was doing.
Darun listened to her instincts and distanced herself from Tolanco, never telling anyone what happened. That is, until two years later, when she learned that she was not Talenko's only target.
And then two years later, it came up that, like, after the year I left, there was like five girls that he was, you know, grooming and had invited back to his house and shown them porn on his computer. He had shown them his privates and like he took it so far with those girls, you know, they, I guess, thought it was a joke.
They didn't realize what was happening. And they told me, like we were on the bus going to school, like they were in grade seven, I was in grade eight, and they were telling me all these stories.
And I was like, you guys, like we have to come forward. And it was my idea to come forward because I have a younger sister.
And he used to call her little Darun. I just knew that like she was his next target so I really did it for my sister and yeah at a young age I had to get questioned I felt like I was getting interrogated by the police there was like victim blaming involved at that time as well with the new teachers in grade eight.
Like I remember getting treated differently because of coming forward. And so, yeah, this cuts deep because I still have trauma from the age of 11, 12, 13.
Darun was in middle school, a time wrought with difficulties and insecurities for most of us.

But still, she decided to speak out and lead the charge in bringing Greg Tolanco's actions to light. Darun's younger sister was going into sixth grade the next year, and she did not want her to have the same experiences with Tolanco.
As a result of Darun and others speaking out, in 2001, Greg Talenko was arrested and charged with sexual assault, invitation to sexual touching, sexual interference, and criminal harassment. He had been teaching at Cedar Drive Public School for 12 years at that point.
I was very afraid of, like, coming out because as a child, you think that, think that like you did something wrong for the teacher to ask me a question like that. Like, what did, what did you do for him to ask you that? Right? Like that was how my mind worked.
At the end of the day, I feel like my voice is there like this time around, like I fought so hard because of little Darun because like little Darun never got justice. Like I was just like, I'm just like a witness in all this, but really I was a victim and I was groomed and my innocence was stolen, but I was okay with like not getting the justice as long as he was in trouble and as long as, like, there was other victims to help me prove that this guy shouldn't be a teacher, shouldn't even be around kids.
I asked Arun what she meant when she said she never got justice as a child. And what came to light was that she felt she missed out on the process.
She wasn't considered a main victim in the case, which she understands. But as a result, her story wasn't part of the case and she did not attend any of the hearings.
She didn't get to see it. She was just left to process what had happened to her alone.
As a result of this, even years later, she explained that she still has questions and she never really got closure.

And when she was attacked on September 15th, 2021 in Massey Park, suddenly this incident from middle school came back into her mind. I actually thought about Mr.
Tolanco on my walk back home. Like it happened immediately, like after the attack and I was walking back home, I thought of him and I remembered that experience.
It just came up and I was just so angry about the world. Like I'm just, I was just so angry.
It just, it just came up, I guess. It was just like that locked trauma that was still in there.
It all came up. Darune spoke up in middle school, and again, as an adult after she was attacked in Massey Park, her motivation to warn others, to advocate for victims, and perhaps to make a big deal about something that is a big deal.
Sometimes, though, you can do all the right things and still be let down. When I first spoke with Darune in the fall of 2024, she told me that she was still waiting to know the results of Paul Youssef's case.
I decided to see what I could find out, so I called the Peel Regional Police, and then they directed me to the Davis Courthouse in Brampton. We don't directly talk about this in the interview, but what happened was I was emailed the case documents the day before we recorded this interview with Darun.
I found out that the sentencing hearing had already happened. It happened in May of 2024.

Paul Youssef was sentenced to four months of conditional sentence, house arrest, and two years probation. I didn't want to spring this information on Daroon during the recording, so I sent her an email the night before the interview with the case information.
She later told me that while she is glad to have this information, it was also very difficult to receive, and it opened up a whole new set of worries for her. I have been waiting for three years.
Nobody has updated me on anything. He only got four months of house arrest.
He also lives in our neighborhood so um he lives within five kilometers of us so that's the other scary part is like um yeah like he's he's free now and i had no idea yeah i mean i think it's pretty like ridiculous that they didn't update you on all of that. Even just to keep you informed, I feel like that should have happened.
I can't believe it. I legitimately had a mental breakdown last night when I saw your message.
I was like, what? That is impossible. How could they not tell me? I wasn't able to get a hold of anyone to ask them these questions, but it started, you know, it was so shocking to me when I heard that.
Because he attacked two people. Clearly, he was past you, hid his bike, was watching you.
And maybe it goes back to this idea of, was he quote unquote successful? And if he, you know, because he wasn't, then he gets a lesser sentence. But it really brings up this question of justice because how is that justice?

Yeah, it's not. It's a nightmare.
Yeah, like it's it's almost as if like you have to end up like dead in the woods for them to actually care or like do anything. And that's truly how I feel like, oh, you got attacked.
Well, shit happens every day, Darun, like move on. Right.
Like that's, that's how I took it. Like, well, you're lucky enough.
You could fight and fight. Right.
Like you're lucky you got away. Like it's all luck.
It's like a game of luck. Like I just kind of want to reiterate my message to women.
And it's that you have a voice, right? And like that you're powerful and that you're stronger than you believe to be, and that you can also punch a

man in the face and survive, and that it's okay to freeze. I think that was one thing that I felt

like a lot of victims came forward and kept saying, I wish I had your strength. I wish I

had done something. But I want to remind women that I also froze in that moment, like right after I punched him and like that it's a very natural reaction to have.
But the more prepared you are, right? Like I just feel like I was prepared and that, you know, at the end of the day, I feel like, you know, I was very successful, quote unquote, in getting him captured and, you know, all that stuff, because it rarely goes that far. Right.
Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets.
We'll see you next time. message a vet at any time, and schedule a video visit the same day.
Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments, and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year-round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.
Wow, that was an incredible interview. I feel so lucky she shared her story with us.
Me too. Yeah, it was really powerful.
And I'm so glad that she spoke with us. Going into these interviews, we have to do some level of prep.
And in this case, you discovered that Paul Youssef had already actually had his court proceedings. So do you want to talk a little bit about how you navigated that going into the interview with Darun? Yeah, it's not something I think I would have known how to do or felt comfortable doing before we started working and podcasting.
Because basically, I couldn't find any information about it online. Neither could Darun, which is why she believed that the case was still open.
And so I called the police station where the article I did find where he was arrested. And then they told me the courthouse, which was like in a different county.
So then I called the courthouse and got ahold of them. And then I was able to get the court documents.
And I was really surprised to learn that the case was closed, that his sentencing hearing had already happened like six months before. And I don't know exactly why he got a four-month conditional sentence and two years probation.
But the most shocking thing to me was that Darun had not been updated and had not been able to find this information. And lived so close to him.
Lives like a few miles away. I had no idea.

Such a nightmare.

Okay, so this takes place in Canada, which is different than the U.S., and I'm not as familiar with the laws there. It was difficult, honestly, even getting the court paperwork.
Much more difficult than I found in the U.S. when I've set out records.
So I reached out to a few different reporters. Essentially, I didn't get a clear answer on this, on what the process is, and also why a victim wouldn't be informed.
But you might have some information about this. Yeah, well, after we talked about this and came to this sort of realization that we weren't even clear on what Darun's rights were as a victim of someone who physically assaulted her, probably with the intent to sexually assault her.

You know, it was really alarming. And so I went ahead and contacted a victim advocacy group called the Canadian Resource Center for Victims of Crime.
And I spoke with the representative there and she had some really interesting information. Essentially, in Canada, there exists the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights.

And Darune had a lot more rights than I think were exercised. And probably that's because she didn't even know that she had those rights.
And it also goes back to, well, she's the victim of a crime. And so is the onus on the victim to go say, OK, what are my rights? Or is it on law enforcement to say, okay, here's your rights or connect you to someone who can make you aware so that you can stay safe throughout this ordeal.
And basically, she has what's called a right to information, which is about the status of the investigation, the alleged offense, the location of proceedings, available services, right to protection, right to participation, which is conveying their views when decisions are made by authorities. Well, this is why I was shocked because so many cases we've covered before, victims will get a chance to offer a victim impact statement at a sentencing hearing, which can influence a sentence on someone, right? If a judge hears that this was incredibly emotionally traumatic or whatever, that could be informative in sentencing.
Well, if the victim is not informed about the sentencing hearing, they have no chance to offer a victim impact statement. Right.
And I think, you know, Druin put it so well in the interview when she was talking about how, you know, this person attacked her in broad daylight. In broad daylight, I think it was 1130 a.m.
She was like, of course he was going to do this again. And she was right.
And was keeping trophies. Was keeping trophies.
Like he was not someone who was just going to be kind of come to the realization that he shouldn't be doing this. He's dangerous.
And so it was really scary, I'm sure, for her to learn that he actually lives quite close and she had no idea what the status was of the case. No one told her.
And she, it turns out, did have a right to that information.

Now, when I spoke to the representative from this advocacy group, they said that it's not exactly clear whose job it is to say, here are your rights. But that if you are a victim of a crime in Canada, especially a violent crime, you should be able to ask law enforcement, what are some resources I can have access to? And they should be able to point you in this direction of either an advocacy group or paperwork that outlines your rights for you.
And it's unfortunate, but it sounds like you do have to do some self-advocating to get that information, but it does exist. So, you know, it's not ideal, but I think that it's an important takeaway for anyone who might find themselves in an unfortunate situation like this, because I think had Darune known, she would have absolutely exercised those rights.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's a good practice to, if you find yourself in that situation, to ask that of law enforcement, who do I contact? What's the number? How often will I be updated? You know, ask all the questions.
It's hard to also put that on a victim. When hearing Duren's story, it's like the shock even.
Right. After this attack, she's not, she doesn't have the presence of mind to do that, I'm sure.
But even to be able to reach out after, you know, one of the things that I feel like I've learned from trying to track information down, calling courthouses, calling police stations, is like, you know, bureaucratic institutions are not just going to be like, here, let me help you and give you all this information. You just have to be like, okay, keep asking, keep asking.
Okay, well, you should contact this department. Cool.
How do I do that? What would that website or that phone number be? You just have to ask a ton of questions, which it's unfortunate that's the case. But yeah, you have to be kind of a bulldog about it.
I mean, you and I have been contacting courthouses and looking for court records and reaching out to law enforcement for a long time now, but still sometimes I have a really hard time figuring out how do I get to this person? Oh, you have to go through this other person and, you know, pretty soon you're following up three times. And, you know, for us working in podcasting, obviously that's a less important email than a victim.
But I think the same bureaucratic nightmare exists where you're like, okay, but who do I call? What is the number? And they're like, let me look into that. Yeah.
Well, that sounds like a really helpful organization. We should put that in the show notes.
Yeah. They're also, you know, there's no cost to utilizing their services.
Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah.
Do they serve all of Canada? I think they serve all of Canada, but I know they serve Ontario and they help people who have experienced violent crime. They have a homicide support group.
They really have a lot of resources that I didn't even know existed that are more specific. So the Canadian Resource Center for Victims of Crime, I'm just reading from what it says on their website.
The CRCVC provides support research and education to survivors of serious crime and stakeholders in Canada. So reach out to them if you need victim advocacy.
I think that it was so easy for me to reach them and hop on a call. I have no doubt that they would help point someone in the right direction.
Love that. So if anyone is interested in reaching out to the Canadian Resource Center for Victims of Crime, you can go to their website.
It's crcvc.ca. And there's a contact us link.
And that is how I reached them. And I heard back within a day.
Amazing. Yeah, amazing.
That was a great interview. Fantastic.
We'll be back next week. All right, looking forward to it.

If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it.

Our email is thenife at exactlyrightmedia.com

or you can follow us on Instagram at The Knife Podcast

or Blue Sky at The Knife Podcast.

This has been an Exactly Right production,

hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith.

And me, Peisha Eaton.

Our producers are Tom Breifogel and Alexa Samorosi. This episode was mixed by me, Hannah Smith.
And me, Pasha Eaton. Our producers are

Tom Breifogel and Alexa Samorosi. This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel.
Our associate producer

is Christina Chamberlain. Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.
Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, and Danielle Kramer.