A Morning Run

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Speaker 18 This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culturalistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

Speaker 14 This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturalistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

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Speaker 20 so there was a silent moment between us where we were both trying to process what just happened.

Speaker 21 After you punched him?

Speaker 20 Yeah, like just a still moment where I was like, oh my God, I just punched a human in the face.

Speaker 19 Welcome to The Knife. I'm Patia Eaton.

Speaker 1 I'm Hannah Smith.

Speaker 19 And this week, we speak with a woman named Darun Henry. She is a personal trainer, influencer, and mother of two who lives in Toronto, Canada.

Speaker 1 In September of 2021, Darun had just moved into a new home with her kids and then husband. It was a nice, safe, family-friendly area of Toronto.

Speaker 1 And then on September 15th, she went for a jog at 11 a.m. in a park near her home and experienced something terrifying.

Speaker 1 We speak with Darun about her experience and the lasting impact of what happened to her, including a video of the incident that went viral.

Speaker 1 We will be back with you after the interview to give you some updates on Darun's story, which is still ongoing today. As a note, this conversation with Darun happened on October 14th, 2024.

Speaker 19 Let's get into the interview.

Speaker 1 Let's start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and your background.

Speaker 20 I'm Darun Henry. I am an online fitness coach.
I'm a mother of two beautiful girls who are 13 and 7, and I'm just a very passionate entrepreneur. I had a very hard upbringing.
I was born in Iraq.

Speaker 20 I'm Kurdish. So

Speaker 20 I...

Speaker 20 uh not to like go too deep but i lost my brother my brother was killed by a landmine when i was five so um and then i was like a refugee until we came to canada at the age of seven or eight. So in 96.

Speaker 20 And so a lot of my conditioning was limiting beliefs. I was very insecure because I didn't do too well in school.
I never got like my university degree. I got pregnant at a young age.

Speaker 20 And so when I had my spiritual awakening and I was on my own personal development journey and I discovered who I am and how powerful I am and how limitless I am, I wanted to help women like discover that part of themselves, regardless of what you've been through, that you can become the best version of yourself.

Speaker 20 And so like, that's where my passion lies right now.

Speaker 20 Right

Speaker 20 before the attack, I would say I was at the peak of my career. I was just the happiest version of myself.

Speaker 1 In September of 2021, Darun and her family had just moved into a new home in Brampton, a city in the greater Toronto area.

Speaker 1 Darun was delighted to find out that she was in walking distance to Massey Park, which is a small park that sits in the middle of a heavily trafficked area, but still feels remote due to the density of the trees.

Speaker 1 So she started to do her daily workouts at Massey Park.

Speaker 20 So it's September 15th, 2021. So school had just started.
Yeah, like I had taken the kids to school that day and I went for my jog around like 9:30.

Speaker 20 Being in the forest, I would often like do walking meditations. I'd connect with God.
So on that day, it was different because I needed more content.

Speaker 20 So that was the only day I had taken my tripod because I do believe that having my tripod kind of saves me in a way that day.

Speaker 20 I believe I got there around 9:50-ish.

Speaker 20 I shot content, I took pictures for about 20-30 minutes. I was getting the right shots.
I had my jump rope with me that day, so I was jump roping.

Speaker 20 So,

Speaker 21 you know, when is the first moment that you thought like something is wrong?

Speaker 20 Yeah, so this was towards the end of my workout. So, it was around 11:00 a.m.
when I saw an elderly man who was maybe like 80 years old with a walker, And I saw him walking very slowly.

Speaker 20 And I actually noticed a random person. I noticed he was walking very slowly behind the elderly man, like almost as if he was just like with him, but you can tell they weren't together.

Speaker 20 I found him a little suspicious because he was dressed in all black, like black sweatpants, black sweater, a fitted hat, and he was wearing a mask. It was pretty warm day.

Speaker 20 It was September 15th. I was wearing shorts, so it was kind of like unusual to see somebody dressed like in a hoodie and like sweatpants and just fully covered and also like wearing a COVID mask.

Speaker 20 Not a lot of people wore the masks outside in the parks. So I did.
I noticed him immediately as he was walking,

Speaker 20 had his bike, but he wasn't on his bike, like he wasn't riding his bike, he was walking. They passed by, right? Like they left.
And I just continued doing what I was doing.

Speaker 20 And then at this point, I was stretching and

Speaker 20 looking at the sunshine, you know, shining through the leaves and just breathing and just, I was stretching and

Speaker 20 I felt this like immense pain in my hamstrings.

Speaker 20 And like something told me to bend over, like to stretch my hamstrings. And when I bent over, I literally saw him through my legs.
So I jumped and

Speaker 20 I was off to the side of the walking path so that people can pass by me.

Speaker 20 And when I bent over, I saw him like through my legs, literally. He was like right behind me, maybe eight feet away.
And I jumped. I turned around.
I wasn't scared though.

Speaker 20 I just thought he was on a walk.

Speaker 21 It was just as though I didn't know there was someone there.

Speaker 20 Yeah, yeah. I had no idea.
I was wearing these headphones, so I couldn't hear anything.

Speaker 20 And when I turned around and he was right directly right behind me, my tripod was on, like it was on the ground.

Speaker 20 And I think that I, I don't think he was sure that like if it was recording or not. It wasn't recording, but he did notice my tripod.
And then when I turned around, I said, Oh, but I'm so sorry.

Speaker 20 Like, I was just like, so sorry, I'm in your way, right? Even though there's a huge walking pathway, like you could go around me, like you, there's no reason you should be directly behind me.

Speaker 20 And so, like, that's when I realized, oh, like, he really was trying to get really close to me, but I like caught him before he got too close. And as soon as I said sorry to him, he was very strange.

Speaker 20 He was just like, didn't say anything. And then looks at my tripod and was like asking me if I did YouTube.
He's like, oh, do you do YouTube?

Speaker 20 And I was like, no, I was, I couldn't really hear him because he had his mask on. So then I was like, what? What are you saying? And then he was like, do you do YouTube? And then he took his mask off.

Speaker 20 So he put it down to below his chin. And he kept asking me if, if I did YouTube, and I said, no, I don't do YouTube.
He's like, are you, are you a fitness instructor?

Speaker 20 I was like, yes, I'm a personal trainer. He's like, well, can I get your information like my Facebook or like my socials? And I was like, no, like I only work with women.

Speaker 20 And then I just kind of like looked at him like, walk away, like.

Speaker 20 go now and so like i was just getting annoyed of him like it was the conversation probably took like 30 seconds. And so I was waiting for him to walk off.

Speaker 20 And I was like, no, like I only work with women. You can't have my information.
And so he got the point. And it was in that moment.
Like he didn't say anything more. He just put his mask back on.
And

Speaker 20 in this moment, I realized, oh my God,

Speaker 20 he is going to try and rape me because he looks around, he looked in my eyes. And in that moment, I felt that realization, like that moment where you're like, I'm in danger.

Speaker 20 Like I'm something bad is going to happen to me right now. And like, I have to like fight.

Speaker 20 So I went into fight mode immediately because he looked around, he put his mask back on, and then he came to strangle me.

Speaker 20 So he came at me with his hands to strangle me, but before he could get to me, I crossed him. So I punched him with my right arm, my right fist.
I punched him in his jaw. Like I just, I don't know.

Speaker 20 I don't remember how hard it was. I mean, in that moment, I'm sure I punched him really, really hard.

Speaker 20 Not enough to knock him out, but he was shocked. So there was a silent moment between us where we were both trying to process what just happened.

Speaker 21 Like after you punched him?

Speaker 20 Yeah, like just a still moment where I was like, oh my God, I just punched a human like in the face. Like I, I was taking boxing lessons, but I always had gloves on.

Speaker 20 I never punched a human before, like flesh and bone. So like there were so many thoughts running through my head, like, oh my God, he's going to kill me.

Speaker 20 I just punched a man in the face and he's gonna kill me so because you say like and you did this motion which people can't see on the podcast but you're saying that he was coming at you with his hands out in a clear way that like he was going for your throat yeah he was coming for my throat yeah like that was hands down the scariest moment of my life just I didn't even react, like I didn't even think, I just reacted and I punched him.

Speaker 20 And I honestly believe that that like punching him in the face was the best thing I could have ever done because it completely threw him off.

Speaker 20 And after I punched him, I did freeze because I was like, at the end of the day, I'm 5'1 and he's really tall. He's, I don't know who he is, what he's capable of.

Speaker 20 I don't know if he has a weapon on him. But then right after I punched him and we had that silent moment for maybe five seconds, you know, it aggravated him.
So he can't, he tried to take me down.

Speaker 20 And so I always mention that like my boxing lesson saved my life. I was able to fight him.
So I literally heard my coach, his name is Jerry, and I literally heard Jerry in my head.

Speaker 20 I heard him say, put power behind it. Like as I was punching, because that was something he'd often say to me, put power behind it.
And it's that repetition of punching over and over and over.

Speaker 20 And even,

Speaker 20 I don't know how it happened, but he was on the ground at one point. I kicked him really hard in his ribs.
I wish I had kicked him in his balls, but I kicked him in his ribs.

Speaker 20 There was a point where he was looking for something on the ground. So he was.

Speaker 20 searching for something on the ground. And in that moment, I thought, oh my God, he's looking for a rock, like to knock me out, right? Like that was my thought.

Speaker 20 I was like, he's looking for something to like knock me out. And like, that was the moment I remembered I had a voice because, you know, when you're fighting for your life and that,

Speaker 20 you don't remember that. Like, I didn't remember I was.
in a public park in that moment i remembered like you're in a public park there's people, somebody's going to hear you.

Speaker 20 And so I literally started screaming bloody murder.

Speaker 20 I started screaming for help, like, as loud as I could. And

Speaker 20 yeah, like that was something it's hard to relive.

Speaker 20 But

Speaker 20 yeah, like, I thought, like, if like that was my last resort, was just screaming for my life.

Speaker 20 It was really,

Speaker 20 really scary. So,

Speaker 20 yeah, and then as soon as

Speaker 20 I started screaming for help, like his eyes bulged out, and yeah, and then he ran away.

Speaker 20 Um, but when he ran away, he ran towards the right side of the forest, and then I think he got maybe 10, 20 steps in, and he stopped and he ran the opposite direction.

Speaker 20 And that's when I pulled out my phone and I started recording him because

Speaker 20 I needed evidence of him running away. I needed evidence

Speaker 20 of like what he looked like, what he was wearing. Like I just needed something to show the police.
I had no idea why he stopped and ran the opposite direction.

Speaker 20 But then I realized when he picked up his bike that it was the same person who had walked by me 10 minutes prior to

Speaker 20 and I realized that he had hid his bike

Speaker 20 and was watching me for about 10 minutes.

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Speaker 12 Start improving agent performance at pendo.io slash podcast.

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Speaker 18 This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture Eastas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

Speaker 14 This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Eastas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

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Speaker 1 After Darun was able to fight off this attacker, she somehow had the presence of mind to take out her phone and hit record, capturing him running into the woods.

Speaker 1 Then a man in the park who had heard her scream showed up and called the police. The following moments were a blur for Daroon as multiple police officers and her husband arrived at the park.

Speaker 20 When I had somebody there, like I was able to just kind of

Speaker 20 break out of that shell and I went into shock immediately. I just started wailing, like I couldn't help it.
Like I just started screaming. There was a lot of police around and that police officer

Speaker 20 showed up within two minutes. He was there.
The search started immediately. They were looking for him because we gave a description, but um, yeah, he got away with it,

Speaker 20 yeah. And then I somehow walked back home.
My street was filled with police cars, and my neighbors had no idea what happened.

Speaker 20 There was just a lot of police in the area, and they kind of gave me a minute. And when I got home, that's when like the shock just kept getting worse.

Speaker 20 Um, um when i was like realized like realized what what just happened um the first thing i did was like go to the bathroom and puke i don't know how to describe it but it felt like i puked like this evil like it just came out of me and like it just i puked and i was i was messed up i was really messed up because i kept thinking like oh my god what if i didn't turn around like what if he had just knocked me out before I had turned around?

Speaker 19 There's obviously this range of emotions that you're then experiencing directly following the attack. What do logistically, the hours and the days following the attack look like?

Speaker 20 Yeah, that was a huge ordeal. When we get into the police, there's a lot to say because,

Speaker 20 you know, I essentially risked my life capturing that video because I should have been running to safety, but I

Speaker 20 took an extra 10-15 seconds just to get him on camera. Yeah, when I was very disappointed when they told me that they couldn't do anything with that evidence.

Speaker 20 Like, I had this fantasy that, like, they were going to put it on the news that night and show the clip of him running through the woods. And my neighborhood's going to be a safer place.

Speaker 20 Maybe, like, somebody can recognize him. And like, like, I was so disappointed and so shocked when the police were like, no, like we can't do anything with that evidence.

Speaker 19 What was their reason when they said we can't do anything?

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 20 Well, because it's alleged. They can't prove what he did.
They just have a video of a guy running through the woods and it's an alleged attack. And

Speaker 20 yeah, like they just don't do that. So I

Speaker 20 was like, okay, well, what are you going to do? Like, there's a guy out there attacking women at 11 a.m. He is 1 million percent going to do it again.

Speaker 20 And they're like, yeah, we, we're going to put it up on our website. And then I was angry.
I was like, what fucking website are you talking about? Like, I live in this neighborhood.

Speaker 20 I don't know about your website. I doubt anyone here knows that you have a website or that anyone goes on there daily to check.
They questioned me for about half an hour.

Speaker 20 And I was like, yeah, I was just messed up, right? Like they gave me maybe 10 minutes to myself. And like during that 10 minutes, I was puking.
Then we were talking and I was angry. I was so angry.

Speaker 20 I was like, what do you mean you're not going to do anything? What do you mean you're, you're just going to put it on a website? Like, what good is that?

Speaker 20 And they literally told me like, like, the best thing you could do is just not go back into the woods. And I was like, are you, I was like, are you fucking kidding kidding me?

Speaker 20 Like, what am I a caged up animal? I can't even go for a walk in my neighborhood in the park where I take my kids every day. Like I walk my kids to the park.

Speaker 19 Well, also, this is our advice to women on how to stay safe. Don't leave your house.
Yeah,

Speaker 20 exactly.

Speaker 1 According to Darun, the police said they would post the report on their website to alert the neighborhood, but she didn't feel that this was good enough.

Speaker 1 After all, she lived in the neighborhood and she'd never heard of the website. Daroon has a significant following on social media.

Speaker 1 And so the next day, when the police report still wasn't up online, Darun decided to post the video that she recorded in the park of her attacker. This is the first part of that video.

Speaker 1 Daroon screams as a blurry figure darts through the woods.

Speaker 1 Help me!

Speaker 1 Help me! This guy tries to attack me!

Speaker 1 I have you on video, you piece of f!

Speaker 1 I just punched him in his

Speaker 1 face!

Speaker 1 The video then cuts from the park to Darun sitting on her front porch the following day, speaking directly to her followers.

Speaker 23 I want to make this video for my predator.

Speaker 23 I want him to know that

Speaker 23 when I punched him in the face,

Speaker 23 I wasn't scared at all.

Speaker 23 I wasn't scared. I'm crying because you fucking took my sanctuary from me.

Speaker 20 It went viral within hours. And at one point, it was at 30,000 views.
And it was at 300,000 views. And it was at 500,000 views.
And it was just like a snowball effect.

Speaker 20 And it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And that was extremely hard to navigate through as I'm trying to like collect myself.
I was getting messages from all over the world.

Speaker 20 Like it went viral in India. It went viral in Europe.
It went viral in South America. For some people, it was like entertainment.

Speaker 20 I experienced a lot of victim blaming, but I have to say, I did also feel like the support of the world's behind me. And they ended up posting the police report after it went viral.

Speaker 20 But I also felt like the system really failed me because if they had just taken me seriously, if they had publicized my report, then the second attack wouldn't have happened, which was just six days after mine.

Speaker 21 Do you know what happened with that attack? And how did you learn about that attack?

Speaker 20 I found out about the second attack through a follower. Somebody sent me the report.
What happened was literally the same exact scenario. He attacked her on a Tuesday.

Speaker 20 It was around the same exact time, like 11 a.m.

Speaker 20 It was in another nearby park. He was on a bike, same thing.
He was dressed in sweats, but he had escalated it to,

Speaker 20 he had taken a knife, so a box cutter, to this next attack.

Speaker 1 After the second attack, Darun was asked to come into the police station and look through a series of photographs to identify the attacker.

Speaker 20 He was like the second last picture. So I had to like go through all those pictures.

Speaker 20 But as soon as his picture came up and I looked at his eyes, this energy rushed over me and like every cell in my body screamed and was like,

Speaker 20 that's him. Like I knew it was him because of his eyes because I can never forget.
that look he gave me right before he came to strangle me.

Speaker 20 And, you know, even though it was a picture, I felt those emotions. And then after they made me go through that, they were like, well, we have a disturbing question to ask you.
I was like, what?

Speaker 20 And they were like, did he steal anything from you? Like, does he, are you missing anything? And I was like, no, no, I'm not missing anything. But when they told me, like, they found him.

Speaker 20 He had a backpack on him and he had a bunch of women's items in there. And they told me that he goes out there looking for the opportunity to attack

Speaker 20 and then that he is also a trophy keeper so then he keeps something from his victims and when they said that to me i realized that when i thought he was looking for a rock to knock me out He wasn't actually looking for a rock.

Speaker 20 He was looking to steal something to keep as a trophy.

Speaker 22 19-year-old Paul Youssef of Brampton was charged this week with assault, assault with a weapon, and assault causing bodily harm in connection to two alleged incidents, Henry's and another that happened six days later, that incident taking place at nearby Jay Field Park.

Speaker 1 Law enforcement was able to identify and charge Paul Youssef. We don't have any information about the other victim as she was a minor at the time.
Paul Youssef was arrested on September 28th, 2021.

Speaker 1 Darun now had a name for her attacker, and while she waited to see what would happen to him, she tried to continue living her life.

Speaker 20 I didn't sleep for maybe two weeks. I just couldn't.
Although he wasn't successful, I went through a lot of the after effects.

Speaker 21 You know, it's interesting to use this word successful, and I know what you mean by it, because he wasn't able to, you know, do what he planned to do, which when you were in that moment was very clear to you.

Speaker 1 Looking in his eyes, you knew what he wanted to do.

Speaker 21 It's still just like he still attacked you.

Speaker 21 You know, you still had to go through that experience.

Speaker 20 He wasn't successful, but he was successful in breaking me and,

Speaker 20 you know, making me feel

Speaker 20 violated. I still feel very violated.
For the first two weeks before he was caught, I went through this intense like PTSD where I felt like he was in my kitchen every night.

Speaker 20 Like, I couldn't even go downstairs to like get a glass of water because I felt like he was just there.

Speaker 20 There were many times where I would just be sitting on my front porch, and like a man would walk by, and I thought that man was going to come attack me, and I would just run back into my home.

Speaker 20 The PTSD was so intense that I literally jumped one day and like almost freaked out on an elderly man at the beach.

Speaker 1 Something that's important to note, in Canada, you are not allowed to carry a weapon or any tool that is specifically for the purpose of self-defense, which would include pepper spray.

Speaker 1 It was difficult for Darun to feel safe out in the world, even during the day. After all, she'd been attacked in a public park at 11 a.m.

Speaker 1 She feared something like this would happen again, knowing her only recourse, if it ever did happen, would be to fight.

Speaker 20 One of the triggers I have is that like when a man is walking towards me and making eye contact,

Speaker 20 I get triggered. Or if there's somebody behind me, I will get triggered and it will bring back that moment and I'll go into like defense mode.
Like I didn't want to be touched like even by my husband.

Speaker 20 Like he couldn't even tap me on the shoulder without me jumping.

Speaker 20 I dressed in baggy clothes for weeks. Like my body was, I felt so violated.
There's a lot that victims go through that is not talked about.

Speaker 19 Have you learned anything else about him throughout this process? Like what does he do for work?

Speaker 20 Oh, yeah. Like when we discovered who he was and

Speaker 20 it went public,

Speaker 20 I saw a few comments like, oh, I went to high school with this guy. So I went and I like did, did my own research.
I found out that he's Iraqi, which is crazy because I'm Iraqi.

Speaker 20 I found out that he's my own people and that was very disturbing. And that was one thing I found out about him.

Speaker 20 A lot of the girls I spoke to from his high school, I think I spoke to like two or three of them, all told me he was a

Speaker 20 and that like he

Speaker 20 didn't handle rejection very well.

Speaker 1 Daroon waited in anticipation to see what would happen to her attacker, Paul Youssef. The waiting, she said, was uncomfortable, but it was also not a new feeling for her.

Speaker 1 This experience flooded her with memories from a different incident that happened when she was a child.

Speaker 20 This is also not my first predator. When I was 11, I was groomed by my teacher, my drama teacher.
Like every kid wanted to be around him, like, because he was cool.

Speaker 20 I didn't know he was grooming me until he made it so obvious. And he was like, well, I have a question for you.
Do you have pubic hair?

Speaker 20 I was like, whoa.

Speaker 20 And I was going through puberty. And like, I don't even talk about that stuff with my own parents.
So like for you to ask me as a teacher, I legitimately ran home that day. I think I answered him.

Speaker 20 I have no idea what my reaction was. I just was like, what the fuck, dude? And I ran out of there.
Like I went home and then I just avoided him for the remainder of the year. You know,

Speaker 20 I noticed he always had like a favorite student that was always a female who was always in grade six.

Speaker 20 And the reason he targeted grade six students, and this is just all my theory, was because the year, like that was the last year of elementary. And then you go to middle school.

Speaker 20 And so you can kind of get away with doing whatever. And then they were off to the next school, which is exactly what happened with me.

Speaker 20 I just moved on and I went to the next school and I forgot about it.

Speaker 1 Daroon was clear that although her sixth grade teacher had not physically abused her, his actions were harmful.

Speaker 1 He was a teacher, someone in a trusted position of authority, and he'd used that power to manipulate her. Daroon listened to her instincts and distanced herself, never telling anyone what happened.

Speaker 1 That is, until two years later.

Speaker 20 And then two years later, it came up that

Speaker 20 like after the year I left, there was like five girls that he was, you know, grooming and had invited back to his house and shown them porn on his computer. He had shown them his

Speaker 20 privates and like he took it so far with those girls, you know, they, I guess, thought it was a joke. They didn't realize what was happening.

Speaker 20 And they told me, like, we were on the bus going to school. Like they were in grade seven, I was in grade eight.
And they were telling me all these stories.

Speaker 20 And I was like, you guys, like we have to come forward. And it was my idea to come forward because I have a younger sister.
And he used to call her little Darun.

Speaker 20 And I just knew that, like, she was his next target. So I really did it for my sister.
And yeah, at a young age, I had to get questioned. I felt like I was getting interrogated by the police.

Speaker 20 There was like victim blaming involved at that time as well with the new teachers in grade eight. Like I remember remember getting treated differently because of coming forward.
And so, um,

Speaker 20 yeah, this is, this cuts deep because I still have trauma from the age of 11, 12, 13.

Speaker 20 I was very afraid of like coming out because as child, you think that like you did something wrong for the teacher to ask me a question like that, like, what did what did you do for him to ask you that, right?

Speaker 20 Like, that was how my mind worked. At the end of the day, I feel like my voice is there.

Speaker 20 Like this time around, like I fought so hard because of little Darun, because like little Darun never got justice.

Speaker 20 Like I was just like, yeah, I'm just like a witness in all this, but really I was a victim and I was groomed and my innocence was stolen.

Speaker 20 But I was okay with like not getting the justice as long as he was in trouble and as long as like there were other victims to help me prove that this guy was shouldn't be a teacher, shouldn't even be around kids.

Speaker 1 I asked Arun what she meant when she said she never got justice as a child. She was just left to process what had happened to her alone.

Speaker 1 As a result of this, even years later, she explained that she still has questions and she never really got closure.

Speaker 1 And when she was attacked on September 15th, 2021 in Massey Park, suddenly this incident from middle school came back into her mind.

Speaker 20 I thought of him and I remembered that experience.

Speaker 20 It just came up and I was just so angry about

Speaker 20 the world. Like I'm just, I was just so angry.
It just, it just came up, I guess. It was just like that

Speaker 20 locked trauma that was still in there. It all came up.

Speaker 1 Daroon spoke up in middle school. And again, as an adult after she was attacked in Massey Park.

Speaker 1 Her motivation to warn others, to advocate for victims, and perhaps to make a big deal about something that is a big deal. Sometimes though, you can do all the right things and still be let down.

Speaker 1 When I first spoke with Daroon in the fall of 2024, she told me that she was still waiting to know the results of Paul Youssef's case. I decided to see what I could find out.

Speaker 1 So I called the Peel Regional Police and then they directed me to the Davis Courthouse in Brampton.

Speaker 1 We don't directly talk about this in the interview, but what happened was I was emailed the case documents the day before we recorded this interview with Daroon.

Speaker 1 I found out that the sentencing hearing had already happened. It happened in May of 2024.
Paul Youssef was sentenced to four months of conditional sentence, house arrest, and two years probation.

Speaker 1 I didn't want to spring this information on Darun during the recording, so I sent her an email the night before the interview with the case information.

Speaker 1 She later told me that while she is glad to have this information, it was also very difficult to receive, and it opened up a whole new set of worries for her.

Speaker 20 I have been waiting for three years. Nobody has updated me on anything.

Speaker 20 He only got four months of house arrest. He also lives in our neighborhood, So

Speaker 20 he lives within five kilometers of us.

Speaker 20 So that's the other scary part is like,

Speaker 20 yeah, like he's, he's free now.

Speaker 20 And I had no idea.

Speaker 21 Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty like ridiculous that they didn't update you on all of that.

Speaker 1 Even just to keep you informed, I feel like that should have happened.

Speaker 20 I can't believe it. I legitimately had a mental breakdown last night when I saw your message.
I was like, what? That is impossible. Like, how could, how could they not tell me?

Speaker 21 I wasn't able to get a hold of anyone to ask them these questions, but it started, you know, it was so shocking to me when I heard that because he attacked two people.

Speaker 21 Clearly, he was past you, hid his bike, was watching you. And maybe it goes back to this idea of, was he quote unquote successful?

Speaker 21 And if he, you know, because he wasn't, then he gets a lesser sentence. But it really brings up this question of justice, because how is that justice?

Speaker 20 Yeah, it's not.

Speaker 20 It's a nightmare. Yeah, like it's, it's almost as if like you have to end up like dead in the woods for them to actually care.

Speaker 20 or like do anything. And that's truly how I feel.
Like, oh, you got attacked. Well, shit happens every day, Darun.
Like, move on, right? Like, that's how I took it.

Speaker 20 Like, well, you're lucky enough you could fight, fight, right? Like,

Speaker 20 you're lucky you got away. Like, it's all luck.
It's like a game of luck. Like, I just kind of want to reiterate my message to women.

Speaker 20 And it's that you have a voice, right? And like, that you're powerful and that

Speaker 20 you're stronger than you believe believe to be, and that you can also punch a man in the face and

Speaker 20 survive, and that it's okay to freeze. I think that was one thing that, like, I felt like a lot of victims came forward and kept saying, like, I wish I had your strength.
I wish I had done something.

Speaker 20 But like, I want to remind women that I also froze in that moment, like right after I punched him. And like, that it's a very natural reaction to have.
but the more prepared you are, right?

Speaker 20 Like, I just feel like I was prepared and that, you know,

Speaker 20 at the end of the day,

Speaker 20 I feel like, you know, I was very successful, quote unquote, in getting him captured and,

Speaker 20 you know, all that stuff, because it rarely goes that far, right?

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Speaker 19 Wow, that was an incredible interview. I'm so, I feel so lucky she shared her story with us.

Speaker 1 Me too. Yeah, it was really powerful.
And I'm so glad that she spoke with us.

Speaker 19 Going into these interviews, we have to do some level of prep. And in this case, you discovered that Paul Youssef had already actually had his court proceedings.

Speaker 19 So do you want to talk a little bit about how you navigated that going into the interview with Darun?

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's not something I think I would have known how to do or felt comfortable doing before we started working in podcasting because basically I couldn't find any information about it online.

Speaker 1 Neither could Daroon, which is why she believed that the case was still open. And so I called the police station where the article I did find where he was arrested.

Speaker 1 And then they told me the courthouse, which was like in a different county. So then I called the courthouse and got a hold of them.
And then I was able to get the court documents.

Speaker 1 And I was really surprised to learn that the case was closed, that his sentencing hearing had already happened like six months before.

Speaker 1 And I don't know exactly why, why he got a four-month conditional sentence and two years probation.

Speaker 1 But the most shocking thing to me was that Darun had not been updated and had not been able to find this information.

Speaker 19 And lived so close to him.

Speaker 1 Lives like a few miles away and had no idea.

Speaker 19 Such a nightmare.

Speaker 1 Okay, so this takes place in Canada, which is different than the U.S. And I'm not as familiar with the laws there.

Speaker 1 It was difficult, honestly, even getting the court paperwork, much more difficult than I found in the U.S. when I've sought out records.
So I reached out to a few different reporters.

Speaker 1 Essentially, I didn't get a clear answer on this, on what the process is, and also why

Speaker 1 a victim wouldn't be informed. But you might have some information about this.

Speaker 19 Yeah, well, after we talked about this and came to this sort of realization that we weren't even clear on what what Daroon's rights were as a victim of someone who physically assaulted her, probably with the intent to sexually assault her.

Speaker 19 You know, it was really alarming. And so I went ahead and contacted a victim advocacy group called the Canadian Resource Center for Victims of Crime.

Speaker 19 And I spoke with a representative there, and she had some really interesting information. Essentially, in Canada, there exists the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights.

Speaker 19 And Darun had a lot more rights than I think were exercised. And probably that's because she she didn't even know that she had those rights.

Speaker 19 And it also goes back to, well, she's the victim of a crime. And so is the onus on the victim to go say, okay, what are my rights?

Speaker 19 Or is it on law enforcement to say, okay, here's your rights, or connect you to someone who can make you aware so that you can stay safe throughout this ordeal?

Speaker 19 And basically, she has what's called a right to information, which is about the status of the investigation, the alleged offense, the location of proceedings, available services, right to protection, right to participation, which is conveying their views when decisions are made by authorities.

Speaker 1 Well, this is why I was shocked, because so many cases we've covered before, victims will get a chance to offer a victim impact statement at a sentencing hearing, which can influence a sentence on someone, right?

Speaker 1 If a judge hears that this was incredibly emotionally traumatic or whatever, that could be informative in sentencing.

Speaker 1 Well, if the victim is not informed about the sentencing hearing, they have no chance to offer a victim impact statement.

Speaker 19 Right. And I think, you know, Druin put it so well in the interview when she was talking about how, you know, this person attacked her in broad daylight, in broad daylight.
I think it was 11.30 a.m.

Speaker 19 She was like, of course he was going to do this again. And she was right.

Speaker 1 And was keeping trophies. Was keeping trophies.

Speaker 19 Like he was not someone who was just going to be

Speaker 19 kind of come to the realization that he shouldn't be doing this. He's dangerous.

Speaker 19 And so it was really scary, I'm sure, for her to learn that he actually lives quite close and she had no idea what the status was of the case. No one told her.

Speaker 19 And she, it turns out, did have a right to that information.

Speaker 19 Now, when I spoke to the representative from this advocacy group, they said that it's not exactly clear whose job it is to say, here are your rights.

Speaker 19 but that if you are a victim of a crime in Canada, especially a violent crime, you should be able to ask law enforcement, what are some resources I can have access to?

Speaker 19 And they should be able to point you in this direction of either an advocacy group or paperwork that outlines your rights for you.

Speaker 19 And it's unfortunate, but it sounds like you do have to do some self-advocating to get that information, but it does exist.

Speaker 1 So, you know, it's not ideal, but I think that it's an important takeaway for anyone who might find themselves in an unfortunate situation like this, because I think had Darun known, she would would have absolutely exercised those rights yeah absolutely you know it's a good practice to if you find yourself in that situation to ask that of law enforcement who do i contact what's the number how often will i be updated you know um ask all the questions it's hard to also put that on a victim when hearing daroon's story it's like the shock even right after this attack she's not she doesn't have the presence of mind to do that i'm sure but even to be able to reach out after you know, one of the things that I feel like I've learned from trying to track information down, calling courthouses, calling police stations is like, you know, bureaucratic institutions are not just going to be like, here, let me help you and give you all this information.

Speaker 1 You just have to be like, okay, keep asking, keep asking. Okay, well, you should contact this department.
Cool. How do I do that? What would that website or that phone number be?

Speaker 1 You just have to ask a ton of questions, which is unfortunate that's the case. But yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you have to be kind of a bulldog about it.

Speaker 19 I mean, you and I have been contacting courthouses and looking for court records and reaching out to law enforcement for a long time now, but still sometimes I have a really hard time figuring out how do I get to this person.

Speaker 19 Oh, you have to go through this other person and you know, pretty soon you're following up three times.

Speaker 19 And, you know, for us working in podcasting, obviously that's a less important email than a victim. But I think the same bureaucratic nightmare exists where you're like, okay, but who do I call?

Speaker 19 What is the number? And they're like, let me look into that.

Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Well, that sounds like a really helpful organization. We should put that in the show notes.
Yeah.

Speaker 19 They're also,

Speaker 19 you know, there's no cost to utilizing their services.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah.
Do they serve all of Canada?

Speaker 19 I think they serve all of Canada, but I know they serve Ontario. And they help people who have experienced violent crime.
They have a homicide support group.

Speaker 19 They really have a lot of resources that I didn't even know existed that are more specific. So the Canadian Resource Center for Victims of Crime, I'm just reading from what it says on their website.

Speaker 19 The CRCVC provides support, research, and education to survivors of serious crime and stakeholders in Canada. So reach out to them if you need victim advocacy.

Speaker 19 I think that it was so easy for me to reach them and hop on a call. I have no doubt that they would help point someone in the right direction.

Speaker 1 Love that.

Speaker 19 So if anyone is interested in reaching out to the Canadian Resource Center for Victims Victims of Crime, you can go to their website. It's crcvc.ca,

Speaker 19 and there's a contact us link. And that is how I reached them.
And I heard back within a day. Amazing.
Yeah, amazing. That was a great interview.

Speaker 1 Fantastic.

Speaker 19 We'll be back next week.

Speaker 22 All right. Looking forward to it.

Speaker 19 If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is thenife at exactlyrightmedia.com, or you can follow us on Instagram at theKnife Podcast or Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.

Speaker 1 This has been an Exactly Right Production, hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith, and me, Patia Eaton.

Speaker 19 Our producers are Tom Breifogel and Alexa Samorosi.

Speaker 1 This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel.

Speaker 19 Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

Speaker 1 Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

Speaker 19 Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

Speaker 1 Executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hardstark, and Danielle Kramer.

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